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Log for #openttd on 2nd May 2009:
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00:02:02  *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host86-171-246-78.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
00:09:44  <De_Ghost> was there any signal / road work since 16050?
00:10:32  <Eddi|zuHause> svn log -r16050:HEAD?
00:10:36  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r16199 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_order.cpp order_base.h order_cmd.cpp order_gui.cpp):
00:10:36  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Pass OrderNonStopFlags also to MakeGoToDepotOrder().
00:10:36  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix: 'Go non-stop to nearest depot'-orders did not work wrt. the 'non-stop' part.
00:10:36  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix: Adding 'Go to nearest depot'-orders did not respect the default setting for 'non-stop'.
00:11:02  <De_Ghost> i'll take it as a no
00:11:12  <frosch123> what do signals have with roads in common?
00:11:26  <De_Ghost> they are both part of pathing
00:11:34  <Eddi|zuHause> where does my statement suggest a "no§?
00:11:44  <De_Ghost> no idea
00:11:45  <De_Ghost> lol
00:12:05  <Eddi|zuHause> especially since i was away for one and a half month...
00:12:07  <frosch123> I have no idea what you are asking for :)
00:12:46  <De_Ghost> like
00:12:52  <De_Ghost> change in format of track
00:12:55  <De_Ghost> new signals
00:13:02  <De_Ghost> that kind of stuff
00:15:38  <Eddi|zuHause> lots of "stuff" is still in development
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00:18:42  <De_Ghost> nvm
00:18:57  <De_Ghost> i already found a problem with the diff
00:18:58  <De_Ghost> case closed
00:18:59  <De_Ghost> :O
00:25:01  <frosch123> night
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00:29:05  <De_Ghost> would'nt it be easier to build copy and paste useing the ai api?
00:29:27  <De_Ghost> i mean the api don't morp as quick as the trunk
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01:44:22  <Belugas> that's a new usage for the ai api... copy and paste...
01:44:23  <Belugas> wow
01:44:42  <Belugas> i mean... that's imaginative, to say the least
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02:35:51  <kkb110> hi I have a question in economy.cpp
02:36:07  <kkb110> in "Money GetTransportedGoodsIncome(uint num_pieces, uint dist, byte transit_days, CargoID cargo_type)" this function
02:36:46  <kkb110> It seems there is CBM_CARGO_PROFITC_CALC callback to calculate profit
02:37:53  <kkb110> but actually, It seems it is never been used.. it just return CALLBACK_FAILED every time. and the profit is calculated the code just below.
02:38:54  <kkb110> is there any moment that we really need that CBM_CARGO_PROFIT_CALC callback?   Is that for just extention or plugin something?
02:42:53  <glx> hmm looks like a newgrf callback
02:43:00  * glx didn't check the code
02:43:03  <Belugas> yup
02:43:08  <Belugas> it is, just checked
02:44:31  <Belugas> kkb110, you need a grf loaded and that grf is required to perform the said callback, then you'll see that the CALLBACK_FAILED will take some sens
02:45:02  <kkb110> aha ok I see. grf thing. thank you.
02:45:42  <Belugas> related to cargo.  it's a spec of newcargo, actually
02:47:04  <kkb110> i've got it
02:47:05  <DaleStan> Anything that can return CALLBACK_FAILED is a GRF device. There are (if I count rightly) 60 such functions.
02:51:59  <Belugas> that much??  that is in Open or in Patch?
02:52:07  * Belugas checks Open
02:56:24  <Belugas> MSVC reports 87 lines matching
02:56:38  <Belugas> but that does not count functions, just... lines
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03:10:04  <De_Ghost> why isn't useing ai api for copy and paste good idea?
03:11:12  <Belugas> people dream of using AI api every where
03:11:33  <Belugas> why do you say it would be a good idea?
03:11:46  <Belugas> why not keep on using c++ for it?
03:12:20  <De_Ghost> less fix to keep it working?
03:12:32  <Belugas> hu?
03:12:36  <Belugas> how?
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03:13:13  <De_Ghost> cuz with diff if u change a line the whole thing breaks
03:13:22  <Belugas> lol
03:13:22  <De_Ghost> and then you have to sort thru it all
03:13:35  <Belugas> that is SUCH a nice reason!!!
03:13:54  <De_Ghost> sarcasm?
03:14:01  <De_Ghost> hard to tell on the internet
03:14:06  <Belugas> De_Ghost, with that reasoning, all dev work should switch righ now to AI api
03:14:17  <Belugas> it is indeed big sarcastic laugh
03:14:41  <De_Ghost> i mean
03:14:42  <De_Ghost> like
03:15:11  <glx> Belugas: the API is c++ :)
03:16:01  <Belugas> that i know, glx, ut i'm 100% convinced our ghostly friend would wnat to use squirel to build next version of copy paste
03:16:13  <De_Ghost> yorick"You know I updated the hg repo last week"
03:16:14  <glx> that would not work
03:16:21  <De_Ghost> won't it?
03:16:23  <De_Ghost> :o
03:16:24  <Belugas> and that is what make me laugh really hard
03:16:28  <glx> squirrel can't save
03:17:14  <Belugas> people tend to view squirrel as the easy way in
03:17:25  <glx> anyway AI API is taylored for AIs
03:17:32  <Belugas> yup
03:17:40  <kkb110> Is that a bug?  that I can over-build a train-station on other my train-station? Nothing happens when I over-build , but it consumes money.
03:17:55  <Belugas> not a bug
03:17:55  <glx> not a bug
03:18:01  <kkb110> ok :)
03:18:05  <De_Ghost> depends how u view it
03:18:05  <Belugas> you are just... updating it
03:18:07  <De_Ghost> it's a feature
03:18:15  <glx> useful for newgrfs
03:18:27  <kkb110> aha
03:18:29  <glx> when you want to change station's style
03:18:47  <Belugas> if you have a sation build piece by piece, with no roof, and you want to add roofs, just click and drag the whole station and boom
03:18:58  <Belugas> credited and updated
03:19:10  <kkb110> yeah, it seems I can change the style
03:19:31  <glx> hmm it's late
03:19:36  * glx says good night
03:19:41  <Belugas> yup
03:19:42  <Belugas> me too
03:19:45  <Belugas> good night
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07:23:19  <petern> "Passengers production at Senfield Oil Rig increases 100%!
07:25:51  <Gekz> lol?
07:25:56  <Gekz> are you serious?
07:27:13  <Gekz> I like it as a feature
07:27:30  <Alberth> from 1 to 2 passengers :)
07:27:40  <petern> yes gekz
07:27:58  <Gekz> cloning vats
07:28:01  <Gekz> in the oil rigs
07:28:03  <Gekz> it should be a feature
07:28:17  <petern> i wonder which senfield oil rig it is
07:28:19  <petern> there are two...
07:28:23  <Gekz> lol
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07:31:29  <dihedral> morning lads
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07:36:31  <TrueBrain> morning all
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08:04:39  <Cybertinus> hi
08:05:23  <TrueBrain> hello Cybertinus
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08:30:30  <dihedral> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=786341#p786341 <- lol
08:31:20  <Gekz> lol
08:31:33  <dihedral> more than 1 thing in there to be amused by :-P
08:31:40  <dihedral> 'the trunik' ^^
08:31:45  <dihedral> *trunk
08:32:08  <Gekz> I think it's a good patch
08:32:28  <dihedral> 'trunk or a cheat' .... as cheats are not part of trunk? probably located in svn://svn.openttd.org/extra/cheats/
08:32:46  <dihedral> and is there not much more that is considered other than 'good patch' ?
08:32:49  <TrueBrain> dihedral: what is wrong with 'trunk or a cheat'
08:32:53  <TrueBrain> we perfectly well understand what he means
08:32:59  <dihedral> it sounds funny
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08:33:07  <Gekz> dihedral: it's a useful feature
08:33:12  <TrueBrain> not everyone is as good in English as you are!
08:33:16  <dihedral> Gekz, and how is it coded?
08:33:25  <Gekz> no idea.
08:33:26  <Gekz> you tell me
08:33:29  <dihedral> TrueBrain, never said that did i?
08:33:31  <TrueBrain> :)
08:33:51  <dihedral> and no, it assumes that trunk and cheats are separate!
08:33:55  <dihedral> :-P
08:34:00  <dihedral> which is what i find amusing :-P
08:34:12  <TrueBrain> we have a dutch verb for that: "mierenneuker" .. translated to "ant fucker"
08:34:18  <TrueBrain> doubt that has the same intentions :p
08:34:20  <dihedral> and last but not least: since when does that kiddo know what would be a prime candidate for trunk? :-D
08:34:21  <Gekz> I'm a native english speaker, and I saw nothing wrong with what he was saying
08:34:37  <dihedral> TrueBrain, LOL
08:35:02  <dihedral> Gekz, trunk is where the source is actively developed
08:35:08  <Gekz> I know what the trunk it
08:35:08  <dihedral> cheat is part of the source
08:35:09  <Gekz> is*
08:35:11  <Gekz> and he probably does too
08:35:27  <Gekz> I was understanding it as two separate "prime candidates"
08:35:27  <dihedral> doubt that :-P
08:35:36  <Gekz> first as a merged piece of code, and second as where it would be used in said code
08:35:46  <dihedral> what??
08:35:47  <Gekz> or doesn't mean XOR
08:35:50  <Gekz> :P
08:36:07  <dihedral> go fuck ants :-P
08:36:09  <dihedral> ^^
08:36:15  <dihedral> hihi
08:36:15  <TrueBrain> you are dihedral :)
08:36:16  <Gekz> I do regularly
08:36:24  <dihedral> SEE TrueBrain
08:36:27  <dihedral> :-P
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08:52:26  <Cybertinus> when somebody is called a "mierenneuker", then that somebody pays way to much attention to little details that are wrong
08:52:39  <Cybertinus> it absolutely not a positive name to be called ;)
08:52:39  <TrueBrain> Cybertinus: no shit?!
08:52:55  <TrueBrain> I don't think there was any misunderstanding in that ;) :p
08:53:17  <TrueBrain> (mwhahahaha)
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09:26:44  <el_en> KingJ: warning #2
09:27:26  <Forked> boioioing
09:31:16  <KingJ> el_en: ?
09:31:36  <el_en> KingJ: nick flood spam.
09:31:48  <TrueBrain> it is like kind of annoying
09:32:02  <KingJ> Did it change more than once? It should have just gone kingj > KingJ
09:32:37  <TrueBrain> and it goes back and forward over time
09:32:53  <TrueBrain> if you want to indicate your are not attached to your bouncer or what ever, use /away .. not a nick-change
09:32:54  <el_en> once is once too much.
09:33:15  <KingJ> Right, i'll disable that then
09:33:17  <TrueBrain> well, once is okay, but there are days he does it N times after eachotherr :p
09:34:06  <TrueBrain> it always does suprise me, that people don't understand that /away is to mark you as away :) My IRC client shows that very nice :)
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09:34:39  <KingJ> Changed, you shouldn't see me change nick again on this network
09:34:49  * TrueBrain hugs KingJ :)
09:36:35  <Alberth> people even use /action for that
09:36:45  <TrueBrain> Alberth: that is a kick-ban here :)
09:36:54  <TrueBrain> (as you might hav enoticed ... nobody does that here :p)
09:37:30  * Eddi|zuHause noticed ;)
09:37:32  <Alberth> and that's how it should be imho.
09:37:54  <KingJ> If it happens agian, let me know
09:37:59  <TrueBrain> KingJ: will do, tnx :)
09:38:15  <TrueBrain> Alberth: it is like those people think they are VERY important, and they should let every one know how long they have been away and why they were gone :p
09:38:22  <TrueBrain> use Twitter for that, I think :p
09:38:37  <TrueBrain> (ghehe .. I hate Twitter .. who here uses Twitter? As I would love to know why the fuck any sane person would use it :p)
09:39:17  <Alberth> yeah, in a channel with 700+ people, nice (NOT!)
09:41:05  <Forked> there are no important people on irc (no offence intended, but.. :p)
09:41:15  <TrueBrain> you are absolutely right :)
09:41:31  <Forked> except me of course
09:41:37  <Forked> ya'll just don't know it ;D
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09:41:55  <Eddi|zuHause> by my experience, ALL people on IRC are "important" :p
09:42:13  <frosch123> especially those who idle
09:42:22  <TrueBrain> morning frosch123
09:42:35  <frosch123> morning TrueBrain :)
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09:42:55  <frosch123> moin fjb :)
09:42:58  <fjb> Hello
09:43:25  <fjb> Quak frosch123 :)
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10:19:39  <frosch123> so TrueBrain: shall AITileList_IndustryAccepting collect all tiles that accept at least one cargo, or those tiles that accept all cargos the industry needs
10:20:45  <TrueBrain> any, I say
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10:21:06  <Eddi|zuHause> since you cannot decide which cargo you want, i'd say all cargos
10:21:19  <TrueBrain> or maybe add a param to specify the cargo, and have an ANY_CARGO value
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10:22:05  <frosch123> add a param? that is api breaking
10:22:24  <TrueBrain> yup .. but I guess changing the functionality is too .. although I wouldn't see how it works for anyone as it is :)
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10:22:34  <TrueBrain> btw, AIIndustry::IsCargoAccepted is closely related
10:23:17  <frosch123> how? that function does not use tiles
10:23:28  <TrueBrain> has a != 0 too
10:23:31  <TrueBrain> I meant it like that ;)
10:23:56  <TrueBrain> oh, nevermind
10:23:58  <TrueBrain> not related
10:24:01  <frosch123> there is no " != 0" in that function :p
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10:24:21  <TrueBrain> I was looking with my ass :p
10:25:02  <TrueBrain> so maybe there is need for an additional class .. one that generates all, one that generates any
10:25:25  <TrueBrain> but I guess Yexo has a more up-to-date view about this :)
10:25:29  <frosch123> ..., one that generates those for a specific cargo
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10:26:27  <frosch123> 2 days, 1 hour, 36 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Yexo> see you all in a few days
10:26:48  <TrueBrain> he is a man of his word :)
10:27:18  <frosch123> I take that as sunday or monday
10:27:41  <TrueBrain> might be a bit later, seen the days coming .. (4 may and 5 may are 'special' here :))
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10:35:22  <frosch123> fine, AITileList_IndustryProducing is on the safe side
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10:40:25  <dihedral> <Cybertinus> [10:52:39] it absolutely not a positive name to be called ;) <- wow - that surprises me now ^^
10:40:40  <Cybertinus> hehe :)
10:40:49  <Cybertinus> but, I'm offline now
10:40:55  <TrueBrain> no you are not :p
10:40:57  <Cybertinus> rebooting to Windows, gonna play a game ;)
10:40:59  <dihedral> apparently not ^^
10:41:00  <dihedral> oh
10:41:03  <Cybertinus> I'm going offline now ;)
10:41:08  <dihedral> windows
10:41:08  <TrueBrain> enjoy your game :)
10:41:09  <dihedral> pfft
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10:41:37  <Cybertinus> thnx TrueBrain
10:41:52  <Cybertinus> dihedral: the game I'm gonna play is going to work on LInux, I'm sure
10:42:11  <Cybertinus> the game itself is already ported to Linux, only the level editor (and that is what I'm gonna use now) isn't
10:42:21  <Cybertinus> so that is a matter of time
10:42:38  <dihedral> which game?
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11:04:19  <dihedral> looks like Cybertinus needs to learn how to boot to another system :-P
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11:19:10  <dihedral> trallalla
11:19:29  <TrueBrain> ieuw
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11:25:07  <dihedral> Cybert1nus, having issues booting to windows?
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12:39:12  <Wolf01> aye aye
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13:05:13  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: alberth * r16200 /trunk/src/ (news_gui.cpp news_type.h): -Codechange: Moving news-type description to NewsTypeData array.
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13:07:27  <Cybert1nus> dihedral: yeah :)
13:08:16  <Cybert1nus> dihedral: Windows is totally dead now. It couldn't find file during boot, even before the green blocks go from left to right ;)
13:08:57  <dihedral> and what did you try to fix it?
13:09:00  <Cybert1nus> dihedral: so I'm reinstalling it now, but I have some problem then too, so I'm booting LInux a few times, trying to solve them, and when I boot Linux, I have a join here (nothing I can do about that)
13:09:13  <Cybert1nus> dihedral: complete reinstall :)
13:09:31  <dihedral> and you can stop highlighting me, i know who you are talking to by now ^^
13:09:48  <Cybert1nus> that installation needed to be reinstalled anyway (I even got a BSOD when I tried to run Windows Update :p)
13:09:50  <Cybert1nus> sry
13:10:12  <dihedral> my - you have issues ^^
13:10:37  <Cybert1nus> and now I can't find the key for that Windows CD :/
13:10:39  <dihedral> there are things one can do to fix windows without reinstall :-P
13:11:01  <Cybert1nus> true, but those generally take more time then a reinstall
13:11:24  <Cybert1nus> and I don't have any data in Windows, just a few games (and I don't care about the save-games ;) )
13:11:28  <Cybert1nus> nothing more
13:11:34  <Cybert1nus> al my important data is in Linux
13:13:45  <glx> be sure to keep a way to boot to linux before reinstalling windows :)
13:13:55  <Cybert1nus> yup
13:14:11  <Cybert1nus> that way is called System Rescue CD ;)
13:14:23  <Cybert1nus> just a live CD I use to reinstall grub to my MBR
13:15:03  <glx> I use ntloader for os selection :)
13:20:44  <dihedral> glx, you do?
13:20:49  <dihedral> uh...
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13:25:25  <TrueBrain> ntloader is as good as any other ;)
13:25:49  <TrueBrain> (nah, that isn't true :) gdb is more useful ;))
13:25:53  <TrueBrain> gdb = grub
13:25:55  <TrueBrain> lol
13:26:31  * frosch123 prefers lilo-text
13:26:44  <TrueBrain> grub-dos for my USB stick rules :)
13:26:50  <TrueBrain> allows me to load an ISO in ram and boot from it :)
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13:43:45  <welshdragon> where can i find the openttd directory in ubuntu?
13:44:04  <Alberth> ~/.openttd, or read the do-not-readme file
13:44:16  <welshdragon> i can't find the readme
13:44:37  <Alberth> find / -iname readme -print
13:45:00  <Alberth> hmm, slightly better: "find / -iname "*readme*" -print
13:45:05  <TrueBrain> lets hope he doesn't have 100000 files of porn :)
13:45:41  <Alberth> those would be called '*viewme*' no?
13:45:58  <TrueBrain> hehe :) I was more refering to the time 'find' will take ;)
13:46:45  <welshdragon> it took millisewconds
13:46:55  <welshdragon> but returned no results
13:47:06  <welshdragon> relating to openttd
13:47:10  <TrueBrain> it always takes milliseconds .. the question just is: how many ;)
13:47:12  <TrueBrain> ghehehe
13:47:54  <Xaroth> apt-get install openttd; locate openttd ?
13:48:02  <welshdragon> found it
13:48:10  <Xaroth> or apt-get install openttd; updatedb; locate openttd;
13:48:13  <Xaroth> then watch the spam
13:48:21  <TrueBrain> hmm .. spam ..
13:48:24  <TrueBrain> I am hungry :)
13:48:36  <welshdragon> /home/user/.openttd
13:48:56  <TrueBrain> yeah, what Alberth told you from the start
13:48:58  <TrueBrain> very well done
13:49:36  <welshdragon> hehe
13:49:46  <welshdragon> now i need to transfer the data files across
13:50:23  <Alberth> insert cd ; mount ; copy files :p
13:50:48  <welshdragon> i'm going to do it off my installation
13:51:23  <welshdragon> plus it's a netbook, they don't have cd drives
13:51:52  <Alberth> put as USB stick ; insert stick ; mount ; copy files :p
13:52:03  <Alberth> s/as/at a/
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13:52:34  <dihedral> welshdragon has never heard of usb cdrom ? :-P
13:53:21  <welshdragon> hehe
13:53:22  <Alberth> install windows NFS server ; mount NFS over network ; copy files :p
13:53:45  <welshdragon> or i could bluetooth them
13:54:03  <Alberth> nah, too easy :)
13:54:21  <welshdragon> hehe
13:54:56  <TrueBrain> scp -r user@oldlocation:~/.openttd/* ~/.openttd/
13:54:59  <TrueBrain> no mounting at all!
13:55:06  <Xaroth> scp ftw
13:55:22  <glx> only if source is not windows
13:55:22  <Alberth> Xaroth: secure copy (over ssh)
13:55:32  <Xaroth> Alberth: i said ftw not wtf :P
13:55:50  <Xaroth> glx: winSCP works quite well.. but it can be dodgy from time to time
13:55:59  <TrueBrain> WinSCP is SLOW as hell
13:56:03  <TrueBrain> well .. all Windows transfers are
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13:56:22  <TrueBrain> I have no idea how Windows manages that .. but you can't have normal transfer speeds :( Ever!
13:56:25  <glx> winscp works well, but TrueBrain's command was the other way raound
13:56:54  <TrueBrain> glx: install sshd on windows! :) (via Cygwin)
13:57:08  <TrueBrain> but okay .. the location is mostly broken ;)
13:57:13  <glx> I won't install cygwin (it breaks my mingw/msys install)
13:57:24  <Alberth> Xaroth: that was a new term for me.
13:57:32  <Xaroth> for the win, not what the fuck :P
13:58:21  <dihedral> win the for
13:58:47  <Xaroth> heh
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14:40:53  <Chruker> So is this the place where devs talk about AI's?
14:41:08  <Progman> yes
14:41:17  <Progman> #openttd.noai (iirc)
14:41:17  <glx> there or #openttd.noai
14:42:11  <glx> anyway the most AI aware dev is not here
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14:43:35  <Chruker> thanks
14:45:21  <glx> but you can ask and hope for a reply (if someone knows the answer :) )
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14:47:50  <Chruker> I've just been messing around with making my own AI, and thought I might just as well go hang out with the devs :-)
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15:01:22  <Booth> this is a very dead channel
15:01:36  <TrueBrain> after 4 minutes you make that conclusion
15:02:06  <TrueBrain> on the other hand .. you did absolutely nothing to make this channel less dead
15:02:11  <TrueBrain> like saying something like: hello!
15:02:17  <Booth> if you sat in a room full of people for 4 minutes with no talk
15:02:21  <TrueBrain> but oh well .. I think we continue to the dead mode
15:02:24  <Booth> what would youthink?
15:03:15  <glx> 4 minutes is not long
15:03:26  <glx> it can be silent for hours :)
15:03:26  <Chruker> I'm pretty used to dev channels, and the silence they can have...
15:03:37  <TrueBrain> glx: it is if you are desperate for a bit attention ;)
15:03:49  <glx> and the other way is true too
15:03:58  <glx> sometimes there is too much speak
15:04:08  <glx> especially in the middle of the night
15:10:21  <TrueBrain> I hate it that the specs of the 8086 does not comply with the asm in applications and games
15:10:32  <TrueBrain> 0x82 is not a valid opcode (as it is identical to 0x80) .. yet it is used a lot :(
15:12:11  <SmatZ> it's valid opcode
15:12:23  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: Intel tells me otherwise! :)
15:12:28  <TrueBrain> (and hi SmatZ :))
15:12:31  <Chruker> 8086 as in the 16 bit CPU form the early 80s ?
15:12:57  <SmatZ> maybe it's invalid in 64bit mode
15:13:11  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: no, I am not talking about 64bit .. I am talking about the 8086 specs :)
15:13:19  <TrueBrain> Chruker: make that 1995, and yes
15:13:48  <SmatZ> in that case...
15:13:58  <SmatZ> there are some often used "undocumented" opcode
15:13:59  <SmatZ> s
15:14:05  <SmatZ> like, ffreep
15:14:07  <Chruker> in 1995 the CPUs were 80486
15:14:31  <SmatZ> in 1995, there were Pentiums
15:14:37  <SmatZ> for long time :)
15:14:37  <TrueBrain> Chruker: from one day on the other they all changed? :p Ghehe :)
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15:15:02  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: problem about 0x82 in this case is, that it took me a long time before I found out it is identical to 0x80
15:15:08  <TrueBrain> and that just annoys me :)
15:15:19  <TrueBrain> the XOR table shows 0x80, 0x81, and 0x83 .. but not 0x82
15:15:35  <SmatZ> hehe
15:15:44  <SmatZ> 0x82 does "sign extension" for byte to byte ;)
15:15:46  <TrueBrain> when you check the bitfields, you see that the last bit is sign-extension .. which is silly for byte to byte (which 0x82 is)
15:15:49  <TrueBrain> exactly ...
15:15:51  <SmatZ> but it's valid
15:16:00  <SmatZ> but I am downloading the specs :)
15:16:02  <TrueBrain> well, not by the specs directly ... it is just not invalid :(
15:16:03  <Eddi|zuHause> <Chruker> in 1995 the CPUs were 80486 <- the used processor and the target architecture of the compiler are only loosely related
15:16:40  <TrueBrain> Chruker: up to 1994/1995 a lot of games appear to be 16bit 80-386 code .. most even in Real Mode
15:16:49  <TrueBrain> after that it becomes Protected Mode and 32bit
15:16:49  <Eddi|zuHause> even though today many processors are i686 architecture, many programs are still compiled for i386
15:17:23  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i remember that time
15:17:33  <TrueBrain> 64bit OSes are the first OSes which do not allow switching to real mode via a virtual layer .... I had to find that out the hard way :p
15:17:40  <TrueBrain> 32bit OSes with a 64bit CPU still allow it though ..
15:17:46  <Eddi|zuHause> programs that generally started with the message "dos4gw protected mode" or something
15:17:50  <TrueBrain> so I guess it is still actual ;)
15:18:26  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2004/readings/i386/XOR.htm
15:18:39  <TrueBrain> the Intel PDF shows the same info
15:19:09  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: have a look at opcode map
15:19:22  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: that is my point! There you have to find out, in a small table far far far far far far away
15:19:24  <TrueBrain> via bits
15:19:24  <glx> I have a lot of dos4gw games ;)
15:19:28  <TrueBrain> that 0x82 is 'allowed'
15:19:30  <TrueBrain> just not 'documented'
15:19:45  <TrueBrain> reminds me of THHGTTG ...
15:19:57  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: the was was true for 'repne stosb'
15:20:10  <TrueBrain> it is not 'documented', but it is 'valid' and identical to 'rep stosb'
15:20:11  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: there are more ways to encode several instructions
15:20:18  <SmatZ> but only one is mentioned :)
15:20:31  <TrueBrain> 0x82 === 0x80 ... so why doesn't the whole world just use 0x80
15:20:36  <SmatZ> like, push&pop with some operands
15:20:39  <TrueBrain> there is absolutely no reason to use 0x82 :(
15:20:52  <SmatZ> hehe
15:20:54  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: in most cases all alternatives are described
15:21:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i remember that dos4gw games often were unstable
15:21:21  <glx> the old time you had to have a different autoexec.bat/config.sys for each game
15:21:27  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: lilttle to do with 'dos4gw'
15:21:30  <SmatZ> in most cases, ther eis only one way how to code it ;)
15:21:30  <Eddi|zuHause> but it might have been because of novell dos
15:21:34  <TrueBrain> it is just a simple lib which puts the app in protected mode :)
15:22:04  <TrueBrain> but yes, protected mode 'crashes' more often, as it doesn't allow a few things real mode allows :p
15:22:13  <SmatZ> FF /6 PUSH r/m16 Push r/m16
15:22:18  <SmatZ> 50+rw PUSH r16 Push r16
15:22:25  <SmatZ> you are right, both ways are documented here :)
15:22:29  <TrueBrain> :)
15:22:35  <Eddi|zuHause> it would often clash with emm386
15:22:42  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: understand my frustration? :p
15:22:58  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: sure :) I have undergone the same process ;)
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15:23:00  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: don't forget himem.sys :)
15:23:10  <SmatZ> himem.sys doesn't use PM
15:23:13  <SmatZ> emm386 does
15:23:16  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: the main thing that annoys me that it take ages to be 100% sure they are identical ...
15:23:22  <Eddi|zuHause> novell's himem.sys was often better
15:23:53  <TrueBrain> Protected Mode is so normal nowedays, that we don't even realise we have it :p
15:24:01  <SmatZ> hehe
15:24:05  <Eddi|zuHause> that was the time where i set up multiple config.sys/autoexec.bat depending on which game i wanted to play
15:24:14  <frosch123> TrueBrain: you can realise it with every segfault :p
15:24:24  <TrueBrain> frosch123: null-references ;)
15:24:25  <glx>  <TrueBrain> Protected Mode is so normal nowedays, that we don't even realise we have it :p <-- same for "insane" memory amounts ;)
15:25:46  <glx> all the workarounds needed to use more than 640KB
15:26:04  <TrueBrain> more than 1MB was a real issue
15:26:21  <TrueBrain> (as in: not possible in real mode .. simply no way :p)
15:26:42  <glx> having enough free mem in the 640KB block was already a hell
15:26:47  <Forked> I seem to recall a product named Quarterdeck Extended Memory Mananger.. saved me a few times :o
15:27:00  <glx> even when putting TSR in "high" memory
15:27:35  <frosch123> TrueBrain: 1MB + 64kB - 16 :p
15:27:42  <TrueBrain> frosch123: ;)
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15:28:58  <glx> I'm quite sure now, most PC users don't know what IRQ is :)
15:29:42  <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me of the times where you had to teach each game individually how to talk to your sound card
15:29:53  <glx> 220 300 5 ;)
15:30:08  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: and I am sure 90% never knew what they did .. just knew how to do it :p
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15:42:20  <SmatZ> [17:29:57] <glx> 220 300 5 ;) <== what about the DMA channel? ;)
15:42:34  <glx> ha yes I forgot it :)
15:42:47  <frosch123> why do you have two ports?
15:42:53  <SmatZ> sfx + midi?
15:43:06  <glx> sound and music yes
15:44:01  <Cybertinus> and then came AC'97
15:44:12  <Cybertinus> maked it a lot simpler :)
15:44:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember there being a low dma and a high dma
15:44:23  <SmatZ> Cybertinus: how did it make things simpler?
15:44:23  <frosch123> hmm, I have "set blaster=A220 I5 D1 H5 T4"
15:44:27  <SmatZ> hehe
15:44:27  <Eddi|zuHause> something like "220 330 5 1 5"
15:44:34  <frosch123> what the heck is the T :s
15:44:39  <SmatZ> type?
15:44:47  <SmatZ> what is H?
15:44:52  <frosch123> 16bit dma or so
15:44:55  <glx> yes
15:45:43  <glx> Cybertinus: not sure AC'97 is simpler for dos games
15:48:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't find my old sound blaster manual
15:48:44  <Eddi|zuHause> afaik the card is still installed in a computer
15:53:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i also vaguely remember my card had 512k memory for loading gm samples, but i never figured out how to use that
15:57:24  <SmatZ> I have a card with ability to insert SIMM32...
15:57:44  <SmatZ> probably for the same purpose
15:58:12  <SmatZ> maybe some games were able to use it - if you told it it's sb AWE, it loaded samles to that memory
15:58:17  <SmatZ> speeding things up :)
16:05:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i remember there was a special patch for civ 1 to teach it the use of AWE32
16:05:36  <frosch123> civ 1? is awe32 that old?
16:05:37  <Eddi|zuHause> the music was suddenly better by an order of magnitude
16:05:42  <glx> patches were rare at this time :)
16:06:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know, it could have been a patch that was delivered with the sound card?
16:06:10  <frosch123> I do not remember civ 1 had sound at all :s
16:06:17  <glx> now games need patches, just to work
16:06:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea where i could get patches from elsewhere
16:07:09  <TrueBrain> getting patches back then was HARD!
16:07:17  <glx> BBS ;)
16:07:37  <glx> hmm no that was for piracy :)
16:07:51  <SmatZ> :-D
16:07:52  <TrueBrain> I didn't had Internet till 1998 :p
16:08:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i set mine up in 2000
16:08:14  <SmatZ> I got CIVV05.zip here ;) (civ patch ;)
16:08:40  <Eddi|zuHause> strangely, i always had a supply of games before the internet
16:08:51  <SmatZ> :)
16:09:02  <TrueBrain> Twilights, I had ;)
16:09:08  <SmatZ> hehe
16:09:35  <frosch123> hmm, the civ1 soundtrack is quite crappy
16:09:54  <Eddi|zuHause> my father occationally brought home games...
16:10:06  <glx> first MS product I "copied" was MultiPlan on CPC 6128
16:11:40  <Eddi|zuHause> one of the first game that i had original was Siedler 1, i think
16:11:44  <SmatZ> why "copied"? you helped the software to reproduce ;)
16:12:19  <TrueBrain> hmm .. first legal game ... can't remember :p
16:12:25  <TrueBrain> my brother did buy a few
16:12:31  <TrueBrain> the first game which came on 7 CDs!! :p
16:12:39  <SmatZ> 8-)
16:12:44  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf?
16:13:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i hardly remember games which had 2 CDs
16:13:10  <TrueBrain> was a thriller game ...
16:13:12  <SmatZ> I had lands of lore and atlantis, both at 4CDs... 7CDs is crazy! ;)
16:13:14  <glx> myst?
16:13:17  <TrueBrain> something with a P
16:13:21  <TrueBrain> can't remember the name .. long :p
16:13:30  <TrueBrain> pentablabla
16:13:35  <frosch123> wing commander does not start with P
16:13:40  <SmatZ> :-D
16:13:43  <TrueBrain> lol @ frosch123
16:13:52  <Eddi|zuHause> monkey island 1 came on 4 5Œ" disks
16:13:53  <TrueBrain> Phen ...
16:13:58  <TrueBrain> hmm .. no, don't remember
16:14:03  <Wolf01> I know only sanitarium which came with a large number of cds, maybe 8
16:14:21  <SmatZ> Phantasmagoria
16:14:22  <Eddi|zuHause> was fun with the "please insert disk X" prompts inbetween
16:14:33  <TrueBrain> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantasmagoria_(computer_game)
16:14:47  <SmatZ> :-)
16:14:56  <glx> on amstrad it was "please return disk" :)
16:15:00  <Eddi|zuHause> there was an easteregg, where you could crawl into the woods, and it would ask for stuff like "disk 124"
16:15:04  <TrueBrain> my google search was "pc game 7 cd horror" <- lol :)
16:15:12  <SmatZ> :-D
16:15:21  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: ah, missed that you said it too :) hehehehe :)
16:15:37  <TrueBrain> I wasn;t allow to play that game ... I was little :)
16:15:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i remember i had huge problems getting my first CD drive to work
16:16:16  <Eddi|zuHause> my computer only had 1 IDE port, and already 2 HDs on it
16:16:25  <Eddi|zuHause> and it only had vertical 5Œ" slots
16:16:30  <glx> you bought an ide controller?
16:17:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i think we ended up temporarily disconnecting one HD
16:17:22  <Eddi|zuHause> after we figured out that the CD drive would not work on the sound card cd port
16:18:07  <glx> ha right sound cards had CD port
16:18:10  <Eddi|zuHause> and the tower ended up lying on the ground
16:19:25  <Sacro> creative did a sound card that had an IDE port on it
16:19:27  <TrueBrain> my father bought a double speed cdrom player!!!!! :p
16:19:47  <Eddi|zuHause> we had a triple speed ;)
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16:33:52  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: alberth * r16201 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h): -Codechange: Add NWidgetBase::SetPadding method.
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16:40:38  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: alberth * r16202 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use widget top coordinate instead of hardcoded value.
16:45:14  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: alberth * r16203 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Simplify widget layout of news settings window.
16:52:33  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: alberth * r16204 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Completing widget numbers of news settings window.
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17:01:08  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: alberth * r16205 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Added nested widgets for news windows and news-settings window.
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17:05:30  <dihedral> would anybody use software maintained by someone who has not the slightest clue of what he is doing?
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17:11:18  <Xaroth> dihedral: people do, it's called windows...
17:12:00  <frosch123> it only depends on how long that software already exists. for software of certain age it is just normal that noone has a clue
17:12:24  <dihedral> i mean maintained, not coded by :-P
17:12:36  <dihedral> and i was referring to something closer to this community :-P
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17:13:34  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. we know you are referring to your special friend :p
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17:27:23  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, ^^
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17:36:32  <Laurens> hi guys
17:36:43  <TrueBrain> hello Laurens
17:36:51  <Laurens> :P
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17:38:56  <Laurens> yesterday evening there was a memorial service, and there was a couple of minutes silence, and just at that moment, a freaking ambulance came along! very much people were crying :S
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17:40:29  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: translators * r16206 /trunk/src/lang/ (german.txt korean.txt):
17:40:29  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-05-02 17:39:59
17:40:29  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: german - 10 changed by planetmaker (10)
17:40:29  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: korean - 30 fixed, 2 changed by leejaeuk5 (32)
17:41:05  <Eddi|zuHause> and why should that be of interest for us?
17:41:19  <dihedral> because people were talking about that yesterday
17:41:20  <Laurens> dunno :P
17:41:28  <dihedral> the reason for the memorial service that was held
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19:52:53  <Chruker> Is it possible to get the game to display all graphics at ex. 2x size?
19:53:37  <TrueBrain> use Magnifier from Windows
19:53:46  <TrueBrain> change your resolution to halve the size
19:57:18  <SmatZ> simple solution "0
19:57:20  <SmatZ> :)
19:59:07  <Chruker> Nah, I'm playing in windowed mode, so changing resolution wouldnt work. And the magnifier isnt the way either.
20:00:51  <Chruker> currently I'm running the game window in 1280x1024, on a 24" monitor (1920x1200)
20:01:03  <TrueBrain> luxary problem
20:01:18  <Chruker> indeed, but still :-)
20:01:20  * frosch123 would press ctrl-alt-kp_minus
20:01:34  <frosch123> but that does not seem to help you :p
20:01:41  <Wolf01> once a wise guy told me to move the head until it reaches the screen
20:01:50  <Chruker> lol
20:03:37  <Wolf01> too bad that guy was anything but wise, now I've a bad headache and my eyes become pixelate like a fly
20:13:46  <SmatZ> hahaha
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20:24:36  <dihedral> Wolf01, nice one :-)
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20:55:15  * TrueBrain is happy :)
20:55:26  * TrueBrain loves to do things that seem impossible
20:55:40  <frosch123> are you playing alleycat now?
20:55:47  <TrueBrain> nah
20:55:51  <TrueBrain> long way for that
20:56:13  <TrueBrain> but today I managed to produce code in segments .. where each segment is like a function :)
20:56:27  <TrueBrain> that makes everything much more readable afterwards, and allows the way to convert asm to real C :)
20:56:37  <TrueBrain> allows = opens
20:57:59  <TrueBrain> anyway, going to play a real game now :) Night all!
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21:16:57  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:26:07  <oskari89> Hmm..
21:26:29  <oskari89> Could there be several types of level crossings? (Graphically) ?
21:27:06  <oskari89> Ex. Unguarded and guarded. Still road vehicles stop when train goes to crossing.
21:27:23  <oskari89> And types user specified.
21:31:30  <welshdragon> oskari89: i don't see why not
21:32:24  <welshdragon> oskari89: http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/details.php?do=details&id=56 < like that?
21:34:48  <el_en> Wolf01 is one of the previously mentioned important ones.
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21:52:13  <oskari89> Welshdragon: Well, just like that, but player should decide whether level crossing would be guarded or unguarded.
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21:54:08  <welshdragon> oskari89: create a patch then!
21:54:53  <oskari89> Hmm...
21:55:15  <oskari89> I have no previous coding experience..
21:55:39  <oskari89> How difficult it would be to code one?
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21:56:26  <welshdragon> you need to know C++
21:58:44  <oskari89> Ok.
21:58:56  <el_en> too difficult.
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21:58:58  <oskari89> And learning that takes some weeks? :P
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21:59:25  <oskari89> Why too difficult? I don't see why.
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22:05:46  <el_en> OpenTTD code is not beginner-friendly.
22:09:43  <SmatZ> I don't agree
22:09:55  <SmatZ> it's nicely documented
22:10:03  <SmatZ> and uses very readable coding style
22:10:24  <SmatZ> I think it's hard to find project more beginner-friednly
22:10:35  <SmatZ> of course OTTD isn't a simple project :)
22:10:46  <frosch123> what code is 'beginner'-friendly? a program consisting of one files with 20 lines of code?
22:11:19  <SmatZ> "Hello world"
22:11:39  <frosch123> gnu hello is not very beginner friendly
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22:19:03  <Xaroth> oskari89: learning C/C++ takes years, not weeks.
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22:21:56  <frosch123> you can learn c++ in weeks if you know other languages :)
22:24:50  <frosch123> night
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22:30:05  <Eddi|zuHause> learning programming takes years
22:30:23  <Eddi|zuHause> learning C/C++ once you can program is a peace of cake
22:32:09  <fjb_> You will never learn anything as you don't start to learn anything. So just start to learn.
22:32:13  *** fjb_ is now known as fjb
22:32:59  <Eddi|zuHause> *piece
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