Config
Log for #openttd on 7th May 2009:
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00:00:31  <Zantor64> ok well it fixed part of it
00:00:42  <Zantor64> I still have 2 trains consistently getting lost even tho the path is there
00:02:15  <Zantor64> and yet another pbs was making things act up
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00:16:32  <Zantor64> Eddi|zuHause, are you there?
00:16:47  <Eddi|zuHause> not really
00:16:52  <Zantor64> lol
00:16:59  <Zantor64> did you use a newGRF with that map you linked me to?
00:17:00  <csokisnyuszi> hehe just made a tycoon map
00:17:13  <csokisnyuszi> who wanna try?
00:17:21  <Zantor64> what size?
00:17:28  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. most notably alpinew.grf and dbsetxlw.grf
00:17:31  <csokisnyuszi> 128x128 for testing
00:17:47  <Eddi|zuHause> they all should be on grfcrawler
00:19:27  <Zantor64> gee I ought to get more into OpenTTD
00:19:30  <Zantor64> it's full of goodies
00:19:35  <csokisnyuszi> http://matrix.ratesz.hu/tmp/ttd/tycoonheaven.scn
00:19:39  <Zantor64> I can give it a try if you'd like, csokisnyuszi
00:19:47  <csokisnyuszi> now tell me it ain't perfect ;>
00:20:18  <Zantor64> is it a heightmap?
00:20:22  <Zantor64> how do I load it?
00:20:33  <csokisnyuszi> load scenario
00:20:57  <Zantor64> k
00:21:33  <Zantor64> hehe spots for stations; that's very nice
00:21:40  <csokisnyuszi> ;>>
00:22:05  <csokisnyuszi> and it defaults to 2040 ;)
00:22:10  <Zantor64> I'll start playing with it right now
00:22:13  <csokisnyuszi> you can experience with maglev
00:22:23  <Zantor64> o the time lol
00:22:29  <Zantor64> I like the technology progressing tho
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00:22:48  <csokisnyuszi> hm well you'r right
00:22:49  <Zantor64> so personally I'd want to start in 1965
00:22:56  <csokisnyuszi> 1950 ?
00:22:56  <Zantor64> or 1970
00:23:00  <Zantor64> not that early
00:23:04  <Zantor64> 60 at the earliest
00:23:41  <Zantor64> I was told 1960 is a good starting year cuz there's a little bit more stuff availab
00:23:43  <Zantor64> le
00:23:51  <Zantor64> as in vehicles
00:24:14  <SpComb> depends on what GRFs you play with
00:24:22  <csokisnyuszi> http://matrix.ratesz.hu/tmp/ttd/tycoonheaven_1960.scn
00:24:23  <Zantor64> true; I use the stock ones
00:24:32  <csokisnyuszi> time machine started :)
00:24:32  <Zantor64> I have yet to find mods to help it reflect American stuff
00:25:07  <Zantor64> is the daylength path not a permanent feature yet?
00:25:10  <Zantor64> patch*
00:26:48  <Zantor64> that does look like a tycoon's heaven all right
00:26:52  <Zantor64> no, how to lay it out?
00:26:54  <Zantor64> now*
00:27:44  <csokisnyuszi> first i would reserve the places left out for stations
00:28:30  <Zantor64> obviously
00:28:37  <Zantor64> I read in the quick start guide that you should build stations first
00:28:39  <csokisnyuszi> then you can test making solutions
00:30:25  <Zantor64> stations built and track laid to reserve the spots
00:30:39  <Zantor64> but what's with the booku shopping malls?
00:31:26  <csokisnyuszi> you mean the industries ? <;
00:31:37  <csokisnyuszi> you can connect them too
00:31:49  <csokisnyuszi> in several ways
00:32:13  <Zantor64> it hadn't occurred to me that malls are industries
00:32:20  <Zantor64> it just hasn't sunk in lol
00:32:38  <Zantor64> this might make a great 4-player multiplayer map
00:33:00  <csokisnyuszi> hm getting a dictionary on malls
00:33:32  <Zantor64> mall or shopping mall would be the word to look for
00:33:57  <csokisnyuszi> oh you mean many malls in a town?
00:34:12  <csokisnyuszi> it was generated
00:34:19  <csokisnyuszi> and ? didn't bomb it
00:34:25  <Zantor64> lol ok
00:34:51  <csokisnyuszi> hehehyes funny thing
00:34:58  <csokisnyuszi> but population has to eat something
00:35:09  <Zantor64> true
00:36:43  <csokisnyuszi> btw i might start with industries to make some money
00:44:41  <Sacro> http://www.themuffin.net/j/magiceye.jpg
00:45:57  <Zantor64> I can't quite make it out. What is that shape supposed to be?
00:46:08  <Zantor64> I can get my eyes to focus on the illusion, but I don't know what it is
00:46:36  <Sacro> keep looking :)
00:47:25  <Zantor64> it would help to print it out but that would take a lot of ink
00:48:01  <Zantor64> a skull?
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00:55:33  <csokisnyuszi> well its interesting to see 5 megatons of coal waiting in a station ;>
00:55:50  <Zantor64> lol
00:55:58  <Zantor64> and 2 megatons of grain and livestock
00:56:04  <csokisnyuszi> yep
00:56:42  <csokisnyuszi> depends on how much time it accumates
00:56:52  <csokisnyuszi> *accumulates
00:57:33  <Zantor64> I'm just contemplating
00:57:37  <Zantor64> how to link it all together....
00:57:55  <Zantor64> because there are so many options
00:58:06  <csokisnyuszi> you go round and round or make a starburst, that will be more complicated ? think
00:58:22  <Zantor64> I'm not big on roundaboust
00:58:27  <csokisnyuszi> what you think?
00:58:34  <Zantor64> I havent' toyed with it much yet
00:58:44  <Zantor64> or are you talking about junctions?
00:59:02  <csokisnyuszi> was talking about topologies
00:59:11  <Zantor64> oh
00:59:18  <Zantor64> I like roundabouts
00:59:24  <Zantor64> roundabout and cloverleaf mysefl
00:59:25  <csokisnyuszi> starburst means to connect everything onn level center
00:59:26  <Zantor64> myself*
00:59:56  <Eddi|zuHause> cloverleaf is generally a bad junction
01:00:17  <csokisnyuszi> i have to learn that too
01:00:21  <Zantor64> I've had it work fine for me in two junctions on my last map
01:00:51  <Eddi|zuHause> roundabout is even worse, because it is a much bigger bottleneck
01:01:15  <Zantor64> hence why I want to get away from them
01:02:25  <petern> mmm, extremely easy money cheat in IS2
01:02:32  <Zantor64> IS2?
01:02:51  <petern> infrastructure sharing
01:03:33  <Eddi|zuHause> people should get away from constructing rail junctions like road junctions, where every entrance is connected to every exit
01:03:42  <Eddi|zuHause> rail networks are not constructed like that
01:08:33  <Zantor64> true
01:08:49  * Zantor64 is still contemplating how to do the railroads
01:12:34  <petern> yay, ?10m in 'free money' created
01:13:23  <petern> nite
01:16:09  <Zantor64> gute nacht
01:16:14  <Zantor64> good night
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01:37:13  <Zantor64> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD9FfOmt1oM&videos=kH4W5r5llio&playnext_from=TL&playnext=1&fmt=18 Inspector Gadget A Cappella
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01:55:30  <Zantor64> csokisnyuszi, for the one set to 2040, you need to start with more funds; I had to max my loan out just to get one locomotive engine
01:56:01  <csokisnyuszi> mee too :)
01:56:29  <Zantor64> it's slowly paying for itself, but not very fast
01:56:29  <csokisnyuszi> but earned 1 million in 1 years with 2 trains
01:56:41  <Zantor64> transporting what freight?
01:56:49  <csokisnyuszi> oil
01:56:53  <Zantor64> ah
01:56:55  <Zantor64> I'm doing passengers
01:57:05  <csokisnyuszi> and ofcourse with maglev ;>
01:57:09  <csokisnyuszi> in 2040...
01:57:31  <Zantor64> because I cannot make up my mind how to do the rail network. Often what I do is I just make a bunch of point to point stations and connect them into a network as I go
01:58:03  <csokisnyuszi> it don't need to be one network
01:58:12  <Zantor64> true
01:58:13  <csokisnyuszi> *doesn't
01:58:22  <Zantor64> I hadn't thought of that
01:58:24  <csokisnyuszi> then you can start making bridges
01:59:06  <Zantor64> it is nice to make 17k USD in one delivery tho
01:59:16  <Zantor64> I don't even have to advertise :D
01:59:30  <csokisnyuszi> yep ;>
01:59:47  <Zantor64> in ordinary SP you have to advertise sometimes
02:00:50  <csokisnyuszi> http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2206/trafi2045.png
02:00:59  <csokisnyuszi> i've made this now
02:01:05  <Zantor64> wow
02:01:10  <Zantor64> I'd have a different take on it tho
02:01:15  <Zantor64> as we all think differently
02:02:06  <csokisnyuszi> ?ve found the best be one-way stations, one side input other side out
02:02:19  <Zantor64> I agree
02:07:20  <Zantor64> I keep getting lost trains
02:07:29  <csokisnyuszi> hm
02:07:37  <csokisnyuszi> then it must be a maze
02:07:39  <Zantor64> on the one map I just redid a main junction on
02:07:40  <Zantor64> lool
02:07:44  <csokisnyuszi> waypoints ?
02:07:45  <Zantor64> you want me to send you the save file?
02:07:51  <Zantor64> I have 1 waypoint and it's not in the area
02:08:00  <Zantor64> a waypoint shouldn't be necessary
02:08:05  <Zantor64> I've had no pathfinder issues before
02:08:30  <csokisnyuszi> if you like
02:10:08  <csokisnyuszi> btw
02:10:09  <csokisnyuszi> http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/9738/trafi2046.png
02:10:40  <csokisnyuszi> this little X earns 6.5 million euros/year
02:10:43  <Zantor64> thank you for the insight
02:10:57  <Zantor64> about 8 or 9 million USD
02:14:26  <csokisnyuszi> though just tried out things
02:15:53  <csokisnyuszi> hehe ? will build a lol train
02:18:41  <Zantor64> lol train
02:22:33  <csokisnyuszi> http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3599/loltrain.png
02:22:35  <csokisnyuszi> hahaha
02:22:43  <csokisnyuszi> even this makes mony
02:23:23  <csokisnyuszi> and faster than any bus
02:24:19  *** csokisnyuszi is now known as hoax
02:27:39  <Zantor64> o_O
02:28:40  <hoax> wait here's loltrain 2
02:33:12  <hoax> hard to find suitable place
02:38:10  <Zantor64> lol
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02:47:27  <hoax> ah smaller distance does pay too little
02:48:07  <hoax> nut it's lol to put 2 stations few cells away
02:49:57  <hoax> wow did you try to stack stations?
02:51:33  <De_Ghost> that is a bad station design
02:52:20  <De_Ghost> well for a 1 industry picup it's fine
02:54:04  <hoax> well it gives huge covering ares
03:00:26  <hoax> http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3707/loltrain2.png
03:00:43  <hoax> hahah this actually makes money
03:01:50  <De_Ghost> have u seen the latest openttdcoop game :o
03:01:56  <Zantor64> no
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03:05:35  <hoax> Zantor64, what so you think about that platform? ;>
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03:16:24  <hoax> wow ? found something new ;>>
03:20:06  <Zantor64> what platform?
03:20:08  <Zantor64> oh
03:20:09  <Zantor64> hold on
03:20:14  <Zantor64> I haven't been watching the IRC window lol
03:20:23  <hoax> http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3707/loltrain2.png
03:20:42  <Zantor64> that is one weird lookin platform
03:28:30  <Zantor64> is there a way to use path-based signals with an advanced roundabout?
03:29:47  <Zantor64> hoax?
03:30:38  <De_Ghost> u don't have to drag platforms like that anymore
03:30:44  <De_Ghost> press ctrl
03:30:47  <hoax> hahah you will like this one http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8662/lolplatform.png
03:30:47  <De_Ghost> when u drop iot
03:33:27  <Zantor64> LOL
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03:39:50  <Zantor64> hey hoax where would you recommend I start on the tycoon heaven map?
03:40:27  <hoax> transport oil from one map edge to the other
03:40:31  <Zantor64> k
03:40:47  <hoax> and you can take coal on same track too
03:40:54  <hoax> back
03:41:23  <hoax> and when you have money, you can think about passengers
03:41:58  <hoax> make some system you want to test
03:42:21  <hoax> i'm testing longtrains now
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03:43:21  <Zantor64> I just made a train with ten oil tanker cars
03:43:35  <hoax> didn't find a bypass;< so ? must stick with limits
03:43:45  <Zantor64> bypass for what?
03:43:58  <hoax> hm wait maeby
03:44:12  <Zantor64> weight or wait?
03:44:18  <hoax> bypass for maximum platform length
03:44:21  <Zantor64> oh
03:44:42  <hoax> i'm not hacking, just hoaxing :)
03:44:55  <Zantor64> lol
03:44:59  <Zantor64> no you're h4x1ng
03:45:09  <Zantor64> or h4x!ng
03:45:55  <Zantor64> lol 2.2 million litres of oil
03:46:22  <hoax> ;>
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03:53:08  <Zantor64> one nice thing about PBS is tracks can be less cumbersome
03:54:39  <Zantor64> I looked at PBS junctions and they look to use less track than pressignaled or conventional junctions
03:56:56  <hoax> http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2433/longtrain.png
03:57:26  <hoax> have made a huge train, but only loads from hald of the 2 platforms it is in ;<
03:58:35  <hoax> and couldn't glue 24 square together
03:59:14  <Zantor64> I'll be able to pay my loan off quickly doing this\
04:00:15  <Zantor64> I'm waiting for the Floss 47 to come out
04:00:20  <Zantor64> it's my favorite diesel train
04:00:41  <hoax> what's the date now?
04:00:49  <Zantor64> may 1962
04:00:53  <Zantor64> it comes out in 63 or 65
04:01:40  <Zantor64> yay loan at 0
04:01:54  <hoax> guess i have to stick with 22 car trains
04:04:20  <Zantor64> that's a little unrealistic. I've heard of freight trains with up to 120 cars
04:04:35  <hoax> yep
04:04:40  <hoax> same here too
04:05:02  <Zantor64> I've SEEN freight trains with over 50
04:05:06  <hoax> well you can make long trains, but loading will be wery slooow
04:05:20  <Zantor64> but in the US I've only seen passenger trains no longer than 4 cars
04:05:41  <Zantor64> make sure the length of your station matches the length of your train or loading WILL be slow
04:06:51  <hoax> yes, it will be 24 units for 12 square platform
04:07:08  <Zantor64> you can change the limit in the advanced options
04:07:42  <Zantor64> go to advanced settings \ stations and in there you can change the max station spread
04:07:44  <hoax> wow ? didn't know that ;>
04:08:00  <hoax> 64 is maximum
04:08:01  <hoax> <;
04:09:16  <Zantor64> holy crap
04:09:18  <Zantor64> 64x64
04:09:23  <Zantor64> that is humungous
04:09:28  <Zantor64> do heed the warning on the setting though
04:09:37  <Zantor64> the higher u go it may slow the game down
04:09:46  <hoax> ok done 21 square platform <;
04:10:55  <Zantor64> do you know of any heightmaps or scenarios that have been done for North America?
04:11:11  <hoax> not yet
04:11:12  <hoax> <;
04:11:58  <Zantor64> yay time for an engine upgrade
04:12:16  <hoax> heheh yeah
04:13:08  <Zantor64> http://mibbit.com/up/HsVzulom.png what do you think so far?
04:14:20  <totalwormage> 02:27 < matt> noooooooes /o\
04:14:23  <hoax> was good enough for starting out
04:14:26  <totalwormage> putty--
04:15:09  <Zantor64> well hai totalwormage
04:15:12  <hoax> hahah
04:17:10  <Zantor64> http://mibbit.com/up/2jhvaNCV.png what do you make of this?
04:17:29  <hoax> Zantor64, now that's one efficient train http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9387/longtrain2.png
04:18:08  <Zantor64> holy cow yes
04:19:22  <hoax> well i don't see what you will feed in that yet
04:19:25  <Zantor64> what do you think of my station?
04:19:29  <Zantor64> I will be doing trains of course
04:19:33  <Zantor64> not hugely long ones obviously
04:19:55  <hoax> its not connected in every ways though
04:20:02  <Zantor64> why do I keep getting the AI debug window?
04:21:43  <Zantor64> oh a competitor keeps trying open up and it dies cuz its' a dumb ai
04:21:44  <Zantor64> lol
04:21:48  <hoax> donno, telling you that you should download AI too?
04:21:49  <totalwormage> Zantor64: the station will probably be clotted
04:22:04  <Zantor64> you mean clogged?
04:23:03  <hoax> Zantor64, this long train half livestock half grain cars, makes 1.5million euros+/year now
04:23:11  <totalwormage> i mean, trains will have to wait on eachother, cause all tracks are connected
04:23:32  <Zantor64> I will test it in due time
04:23:35  <totalwormage> :]
04:24:04  <totalwormage> i had some fun trying to figure out a good station
04:24:13  <hoax> heheh gotto test compactstation now
04:24:58  <totalwormage> this is my best shot, sucks pretty bad though :P http://wiki.knageroe.nl/wiki/images/a/a0/Kooltjesftw.png
04:25:01  <Zantor64> I also have some planes flying
04:25:19  <hoax> sure planes are the easiest
04:25:23  <Zantor64> which color are you?
04:25:38  <totalwormage> red :P
04:27:11  <Zantor64> that looks pretty good
04:27:22  <Zantor64> I haven't tried anything like that yet
04:27:55  <hoax> ah wanted to make station compact, but train won't go in beyond the corner
04:28:55  <Zantor64> have there been openTTD coop games?
04:30:28  <totalwormage> http://wiki.openttd.org/Cooperative_gameplay
04:30:37  <totalwormage> are you kidding?! ;]
04:31:11  <Zantor64> I was just wondering. I'm new to the Internet side of OpenTTD
04:31:40  <totalwormage> :]
04:33:22  <Zantor64> train pwns all
04:40:29  <Zantor64> I"m thinking to play with PBS more to see where it's useful
04:45:55  <Zantor64> you guys seem to have this as a primary pastime, but I have a somewhat hard time getting into it
04:46:03  <Zantor64> it's just not clicking right away
04:46:56  <hoax> haven't played this game since 2000
04:47:05  <Zantor64> it's come and go for me
04:47:10  <hoax> but it's like bicycling you cannot forget
04:47:10  <Zantor64> other games hold my interest longer
04:50:13  <Zantor64> if you say so
04:50:55  <hoax> btw Zantor64 i made the oil/coal this way http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9171/trafi70.png
04:51:56  <hoax> it's a one way around 2 path, with pathfinder lights
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04:53:30  <Zantor> oops doggone iti
04:53:33  <Zantor> it*
04:54:57  <hoax> btw Zantor64 i made the oil/coal this way http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9171/trafi70.png
04:55:10  * Zantor is now Zantor
04:55:15  <Zantor> I saw
04:55:23  <hoax> so the trains can use all four platforms
05:01:53  <De_Ghost> http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/PublicServer:Archive
05:02:10  <De_Ghost> are u hosting an internet game?
05:02:27  <De_Ghost> can i come build?
05:02:34  <De_Ghost> i like building in other peopl's :o
05:02:41  <Zantor> I'd play but my firewall won't let me
05:02:51  <Zantor> plus I need to go to bed soon
05:02:54  <Zantor> 12 AM here
05:03:04  <De_Ghost> firewall only stop u from hosting
05:03:08  <De_Ghost> it's 1 am  :)
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05:24:32  <hoax> [070308] De_Ghost it's 1 am  :)
05:24:34  <hoax> sure
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05:28:45  <Zantor> u guys still there?
05:28:48  <Zantor> I"m having connection issues
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05:35:35  <De_Ghost> i am here
05:35:38  <De_Ghost> connect to what?
05:41:21  <hoax> client exited
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08:48:05  <petern> pom te pom
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08:56:08  <TrueBrain> lalala
08:58:59  <planetmaker> hello
08:59:34  <hoax> heil-o
08:59:36  <planetmaker> petern, concerning IS you write that the system can easily be cheated for money. uhm... how? I'm not sure I understand you.
08:59:46  <petern> haha
08:59:51  <petern> it's so easy it's funny
09:00:02  <petern> tip, you need a sacrificial company
09:00:03  <planetmaker> besides that, I see that most problems with this patch are social
09:00:31  <planetmaker> petern, well... building tracks and renting out for free?
09:00:43  <petern> brb
09:03:02  <petern> back
09:03:21  <petern> on the company you want, set up a small network between two towns
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09:03:41  <petern> on the sacrificial company, purchase vehicles and run them between the stations
09:04:00  <planetmaker> for a HUGE fee on the tracks...
09:04:06  <petern> for a huge track fee
09:04:06  <petern> yes
09:04:17  <petern> the sacrificial company will die, but only after 3 quarters or so
09:04:36  <petern> i managed to reap ?10 million with only two trains on a very short network
09:04:43  <planetmaker> true.
09:05:07  <petern> ta da, you now have ?10 million instead of ?200,000
09:05:22  <planetmaker> ripping off other players may work fine, too. Seen that :) Just put in some tiles during track construction and rise fees to 10k or more per tile and month
09:05:23  <petern> with more trains...
09:05:36  <petern> yes, it's basically the same
09:05:40  <planetmaker> yes
09:05:48  <petern> except nastier, as the other player is trying to play
09:05:58  * dihedral waves hello
09:06:05  <planetmaker> hi dihedral
09:06:05  <dihedral> my laptop's broken :-(
09:06:08  <petern> it's easier than the shares cheat, as you can do it instantly
09:06:28  <planetmaker> yes. But no-one is actually forced to use the infrastructure of others.
09:06:58  <planetmaker> But otoh I can see players complaining and fighting and blood being shed about it :)
09:07:02  <petern> well, unless point 3 comes in....
09:07:09  <dihedral> planetmaker, would it be possible to let others know where the connections between their tracks and other peoples are?
09:07:42  <planetmaker> dihedral, in principle yes. But currently not that exactly. Of course you can query tiles and tracks are coloured by the fences.
09:07:58  <planetmaker> so you can see. But you need to look a bit closer than just "oh, there's track".
09:08:10  <dihedral> i mean, make it more visible to the user before they even build trains
09:08:24  <planetmaker> petern, #3? Well. You usually have to ask for connections as you cannot build on tiles of other companies.
09:08:36  <dihedral> or highlight the user to accept - decline, when the trains pf for the first time notices going via foreign tracks :-P
09:08:55  <petern> planetmaker, you can extend, if say a through station is left empty on one side
09:09:42  <planetmaker> petern, yes, that's possible, sure.But it can be avoided by the builder of that station.
09:10:13  <planetmaker> but then it's an explicit "disallow" (by proper usage of the adjacent tiles) than an explicit "allow"
09:10:23  <planetmaker> any proposals for that?
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09:10:38  <petern> i have no proposals
09:10:46  <planetmaker> hm :(
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09:11:07  <petern> it's also possible to be extending your own tracks and the other company "blocks" your building with theirs
09:11:29  <planetmaker> well. That's also possible in current trunk
09:11:35  <petern> yes, that is
09:11:48  <petern> but it's no use to anyone in trunk
09:11:56  <petern> in IS it gives the blocker an advantage
09:12:09  <planetmaker> uhm?
09:12:12  <Forked> $$
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09:12:26  <planetmaker> rename Ammler Amy ;)
09:12:39  <petern> basically IS relies on everyone playing nice, heh
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09:12:58  <TrueBrain> people playing nice .... like ever :p
09:13:04  <petern> which basically means the people who'll happily play sandbox on their own for years
09:13:24  <petern> rather than the people who care about things like making money and "stealing goods"
09:13:39  *** Amm is now known as Ammler
09:14:46  <planetmaker> petern, well. It's about making contracts. You have to trust your partners to some degree.
09:15:21  <planetmaker> like in RL. But in RL you can sue your inhonest partners. In Openttd-IS you cannot :)
09:15:41  <TrueBrain> create such party
09:15:46  <TrueBrain> where you can sue people!
09:16:06  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, the server admin :) @kick and !rcon reset_company are the judges friend :)
09:16:48  <planetmaker> Generally, one might possibly resort to global sharing settings.
09:17:02  <planetmaker> then an easy rip-off by too high fees cannot happen.
09:21:27  <Noldo> won't it show up as certain vehicles making a huge loss
09:24:28  <planetmaker> But exactly for these social issues I wouldn't recommend sharing defaulting to on.
09:24:34  <planetmaker> Noldo, yes, surely it woll
09:24:38  <planetmaker> *will
09:25:11  <petern> you might be able to implement some 'agreement' system to solve the case of charging comptetitors too much
09:25:34  <petern> wouldn't help the cheating though
09:25:59  <planetmaker> hm... you mean like a contract window "offer" and "accept / decline" button for the other partner?
09:26:06  <planetmaker> and counter offer possibly?
09:26:21  <petern> yeah
09:26:21  <Noldo> and chat
09:26:21  <petern> getting more & more complicated...
09:28:22  <planetmaker> well. chat is always possible. Even in trunk :)
09:28:48  <planetmaker> yes... which then speaks against the KISS principle which we would want to apply.
09:28:52  <planetmaker> keep it simple stupid
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09:30:44  <planetmaker> hm. What about this "solution": The necessity to acknowledge higher fees. If you don't accept within a certain time frame, your vehicles stop sharing and are sent to depot. If you accept , the usual thing happens.
09:30:52  <planetmaker> Not necessary, of course for lowering fees.
09:31:15  <planetmaker> advantage: quite easy to implement and not too complicated.
09:32:11  <planetmaker> it's a bit an extension on the notification scheme which is already now implemented.
09:33:39  <SmatZ> if someone tries to cheat, it's admin's job to ban him
09:33:48  <SmatZ> in my opinion
09:34:02  <TrueBrain> admins are not always around ... hard fact ;)
09:34:02  <SmatZ> trying to catch all possible ways of cheating is endless job
09:34:18  <SmatZ> only making OTTD more complicated both for devs and for players
09:36:39  <Ammler> you can be a "bad" guy also with trunk, no need to use IS.
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09:37:33  <dihedral> cheat detection :-P
09:37:39  <dihedral> auto-kick / ban
09:38:32  <TrueBrain> join Steam and use their Valve Cheat Protection
09:38:38  <dihedral> nah
09:38:40  <Noldo> griefing other players is one thing but getting free money is completely another
09:38:40  <TrueBrain> sell it, give unique cd keys
09:38:42  <dihedral> thats ucky
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09:39:54  <dihedral> better yet - move the to spectators, delete the company, dont let them start a new company for another x minutes :-P
09:40:13  <dihedral> no player cares if you kick them
09:40:22  <Ammler> Noldo: do you know the Station Teleporter?
09:40:33  <dihedral> the best method i have found was to move them to specs and let them watch their company vanish
09:40:34  <dihedral> :-P
09:40:43  <Noldo> Ammler: it does both?
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09:40:52  <petern> SmatZ, what ways of cheating currently exist?
09:41:08  <petern> there's the shares issue, which is turnoff-able
09:41:18  <petern> and there's blocking
09:41:26  <Ammler> and teleporting
09:41:29  <dihedral> it is in fact mostely disabled on servers
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09:41:36  <dihedral> teleporting is not a cheat
09:41:51  <dihedral> and that can be contained with station spread
09:41:52  <Ammler> why is blocking one?
09:42:04  <petern> it's not a proper cheat, just antisocial
09:42:25  <petern> oh, and distant join can be considered cheating
09:42:28  <Ammler> well. bon appetit
09:42:35  <dihedral> building unused stations, as that will up your company rating :-P
09:42:57  <petern> company rating achieves little
09:43:02  <Ammler> oh, yeah feeding your station with itself
09:43:16  <dihedral> petern, of course it only gives you little :-P
09:43:29  <petern> so does feeding your own station
09:43:31  <dihedral> but if the rating only considered serviced stations that would be solved :-P
09:44:07  <petern> dihedral, patch!
09:44:29  <dihedral> was that a "go patch"?
09:44:31  <Booth> morning all
09:44:57  <petern> clearly, gaining ?10million from two trains in 1 year is a different league of cheating
09:45:15  <dihedral> uh - talking of that
09:45:18  <Booth> not realy
09:45:26  <Booth> 64 tile long trains
09:45:36  <Booth> one side of teh map to the other
09:45:39  <petern> Booth, you have lack of context
09:45:47  <dihedral> change the setting - long trains - to something that takes a number, which allows you to specify the max length of trains rather than the fixed 9 or 99 tiles
09:46:14  <petern> dihedral seems to, too
09:46:14  * dihedral always has to think of a car booth sale :-P
09:46:26  <Booth> i can make 10 milion a year a train without cheating
09:46:42  <Booth> dih its a car boot sale
09:46:43  <dihedral> petern, you did not mean own trains, did ya
09:46:50  <dihedral> Booth, duh!
09:47:02  <Booth> lust making sure you knew
09:47:18  <dihedral> i think petern is referring to IS
09:47:30  <dihedral> and you not needing your own trains to gain a hug ass amount of cash
09:47:47  <petern> making a real ?10 million a year from trains requires considerable expenditure
09:48:02  <dihedral> aye, not just a few rail tracks here and there
09:48:06  <Booth> or inflation
09:48:20  * dihedral slaps Booth
09:48:36  <Booth> that wasnt nice
09:49:10  <Westie> or maybe it was o.o
09:50:01  <TrueBrain> lol @ Westie
09:50:14  <dihedral> planetmaker, the cost for running on foreign tracks, does that also change with inflation, or is it fix?
09:50:54  <Westie> ;)
09:51:06  <petern> dihedral, it's fixed
09:52:24  <dihedral> that's silly :-P
09:52:38  <dihedral> everything changes with inflation
09:52:54  <petern> except IS costs, heh
09:53:12  <dihedral> + if it were a % of the worth the train is currently transporting + another fixed fee per train, that would make a difference too
09:54:07  <dihedral> of course it then makes a difference for every company and what they earn from sharing tracks, but is less abusable
09:55:06  <dihedral> you dont get to say how much you want for transporting 50 crates of goods from A to B either
09:55:13  <dihedral> you just transport and see what comes out of it
09:56:16  <Booth> i think it would work o trani wieght speed distand and infalation
09:56:32  <Booth> then you can fairly price pax and cargo
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09:59:24  <Westie> I can just imagine TTD being like today
09:59:31  <Westie> someone cheating millions of pounds
09:59:36  <Westie> getting losses everywhere
09:59:42  <Westie> and saying that everything is alright
09:59:55  <Westie> that it'll be fine, with the brink of bankruptcy
10:01:40  <Booth> lol @ westie
10:01:43  <Booth> that so true
10:02:04  <Booth> openttd game play will be the next AIG
10:02:36  <Ammler> I don't watch many competive games, but another cheat I saw is people joining another company to remove tiles of a town, because they have low raiting.
10:06:11  *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:06:35  <TrueBrain> easy solved by forcing company passwords on join
10:07:45  <Booth> but once joined you can still remove a password
10:07:52  <SmatZ> set remove_unprotected to 1 month...
10:08:05  <petern> even easier
10:08:16  <TrueBrain> then make that a default setting :p
10:08:17  <TrueBrain> ghehe
10:08:21  <Booth> in openttd how would i find the code for bridge spped limits?
10:08:23  <petern> you just create a new company, with no ratings, to remove pieces :p
10:08:30  <Booth> what source file is it in?
10:08:32  <SmatZ> hehe
10:08:48  <petern> Dear Sirs
10:08:49  <petern> I should be grateful if you would relesse two blocked e-mails
10:08:49  <petern> Many thanks
10:08:51  <petern> oh really
10:09:10  <TrueBrain> lol @ petern
10:10:00  <Booth> are the openttd bridge speed limit in teh c++? if so what file are they in if any one knows
10:11:00  <dihedral> did you LOOK at the files in the source directory?
10:11:07  <dihedral> can you see their file names?
10:11:11  <dihedral> can you read the code?
10:11:18  <SmatZ> Booth: table/bridge_land.h ... unless you are using grfs
10:11:29  <dihedral> SmatZ, spoil sport
10:11:33  <Booth> thanks smatz
10:11:37  <Booth> i can read the c++
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10:27:28  <Westie> IRC from school is pretty fun
10:27:28  <Westie> ;3
10:28:46  <Westie> Oh well, I've got to join the realm of 'Education, Education, Education' once again
10:28:49  <Westie> bye
10:28:50  <Forked> enjoy
10:28:55  <Westie> hehe
10:29:02  <Westie> We're doing nothing anyway
10:30:13  <Ammler> beside of that, not everyone seems to like moderated server, we had shortly a 0.7 server running, as we told someone not to block the industry, he got pissed and left.
10:31:26  <eQualizer> Westie: Irc from work is funnier.
10:31:54  <Forked> one does not irc from work
10:32:05  <Forked> SSH on the other hand..
10:32:20  <Booth> ammler brianetta runs a moderated serve
10:32:32  <Booth> and everyone seems to be ok on the server
10:35:28  <SmatZ> Ammler: "cheaters" don't like moderators :) everyone should be able to choose server he likes, given the number of servers available...
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10:43:58  <Ammler> I also experienced, there is a lot less communication on those "standard" servers.
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10:55:12  <dihedral> Ammler, close to none?
10:55:51  <Ammler> yeah, maybe sometimes a "Hi"
10:58:35  <Ammler> how hard is it to sort the server without the prefixes "!#..."?
10:59:05  <petern> hehehe
10:59:14  <petern> or filter them out totally
10:59:17  <petern> stupid cunts
10:59:32  <Ammler> looks like everyone has to add a "!" in his servername.
10:59:33  <petern> unfortunately i don't have access to stuff to boot them off :s
10:59:49  <TrueBrain> maybe that is the reason ;) :p
11:00:06  <petern> TrueBrain, indeed :)
11:00:36  <petern> if you made the sort alphabetic only, you'd end up with AAAA server :/
11:00:37  <TrueBrain> that said: Ammler: they always find a way to be at the top of the list
11:00:40  <TrueBrain> no matter what you try
11:00:55  <Ammler> indeed.
11:01:00  <petern> what about server popularity records? hehe
11:01:43  <TrueBrain> the website sorts it on clients-active
11:03:16  <TrueBrain> introduce a 'star-rating' system for servers, with comments from users :p
11:04:40  <Ammler> do you need to join the server to see the settings like 90deb on etc.?
11:04:45  <Ammler> 90deg*
11:05:42  <Ammler> or realistic_acceleration
11:06:20  <Booth> ammler you do
11:08:16  <Ammler> well, it could be possible, it is a "hidden" feature in the network protocol like company infos and such.
11:08:45  <TrueBrain> ERR_NO_SUCH_INFO ;)
11:08:53  <Ammler> :-)
11:09:08  <TrueBrain> but should be easy to add ;)
11:09:19  <Ammler> Xaroth: ^ :-)
11:10:39  <Ammler> then you could setup your settings and see if there are server admins with similar thinking. ;-)
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11:16:58  <TrueBrain> TT was never really designed for MP ... you can find that back in so many place s:p
11:18:10  <dihedral> Ammler, company info is not a hidden network thing ^^
11:19:32  <Ammler> dihedral: yep, but settings could have been ;-)
11:20:07  <dihedral> UDP_PACKET_CLIENT_SERVER_RCON
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11:20:10  <dihedral> :-P
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11:20:19  <TrueBrain> Ammler: it is open source .. hiding stuff is hard :)
11:20:33  <dihedral> ^^
11:20:36  <Ammler> TrueBrain: not from me :P
11:20:37  <TrueBrain> so if we want to hide something, it won't be something as silly as settings :p
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11:20:45  <TrueBrain> we have more important things to hide :p
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11:24:04  <dihedral> hihi
11:24:14  <dihedral> your pants :-D
11:25:17  <TrueBrain> more what is in my pants
11:25:20  <TrueBrain> but it is so huge
11:25:22  <TrueBrain> how do you hide that?!
11:25:37  <SmatZ> *snip*
11:25:59  <TrueBrain> :)
11:26:12  <dihedral> LOL @ SmatZ
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11:28:09  <dihedral> i need a new laptop
11:28:18  <dihedral> found a toshiba with 7.5 hours battery life :-D
11:28:20  <SHADOW-XIII> starcraft 2 beta signup
11:28:29  <dihedral> pfft
11:28:32  <SHADOW-XIII> 7.5h ? not bad
11:28:32  <dihedral> who plays games??
11:28:33  <TrueBrain> dell has ones with 22 hours
11:28:41  <dihedral> for 1K euros?
11:29:07  <SHADOW-XIII> dihedral: me, and you ?
11:29:28  <TrueBrain> I dunno for how much, I just got an offer from them today claiming that :)
11:29:30  * dihedral hides SHADOW-XIII in TrueBrain's pants
11:29:46  <TrueBrain> @kick dihedral that is just icky
11:29:47  *** dihedral was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [that is just icky]
11:29:50  <SHADOW-XIII> i doubt there's enough space
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11:30:00  <dihedral> ^^
11:30:11  <dihedral> you said what is in there needs to be hidden :-P
11:31:10  <Ammler> dihedral: time to "unplonk" Alain?
11:31:10  <dihedral> oh and TrueBrain, the laptop is 12.1" ;-)
11:31:15  <dihedral> ??
11:31:48  <SHADOW-XIII> 12" ? blah
11:31:57  <SHADOW-XIII> what is it ? a mobile phone ?
11:32:21  <Ammler> SHADOW-XIII: it isn't a portable deskopt
11:32:23  <Ammler> -t
11:32:27  <dihedral> SHADOW-XIII, i dont play games!!!
11:32:34  <dihedral> even if i did - i want something small
11:32:44  <SHADOW-XIII> netbook
11:33:02  <dihedral> if you want to - you can get yourself an 18" and kidd yourself into believing it's a LAPTOP
11:33:10  <SHADOW-XIII> Ammler : my not-portable-desktop is 17"
11:33:26  <dihedral> where in fact, if you placed it on your lap, you'd burn right through your jeans and crush your legs under the weight
11:34:00  <dihedral> i prefer being able to hold it in my hands and type with me thumbs :-P
11:34:02  <SHADOW-XIII> that's a good joke
11:34:21  <dihedral> my mac is 12"
11:34:24  <dihedral> who wants a mac??
11:34:26  <SHADOW-XIII> I have a laptop, not an oven
11:34:47  <blathijs> 12" is a proper size for a notebook :-)
11:34:48  <dihedral> and now say it's got an amd processor :-P
11:35:05  <blathijs> dihedral: That's one of the older powerbooks I guess?
11:35:13  <blathijs> Or did they still make the newer macbooks in 12" ?
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11:35:55  <dihedral> powerbook g4 1.5 GHz
11:36:01  <SHADOW-XIII> dihedral: yes, amd, so what ?
11:36:08  <dihedral> 64MB nvidia fx500
11:36:19  <dihedral> SHADOW-XIII, BURNS ^^
11:36:43  <dihedral> the amd's are HOT ^^
11:37:03  <blathijs> The Turions are not so bad
11:37:03  <SHADOW-XIII> really ?
11:37:08  <SHADOW-XIII> turion
11:37:39  <dihedral> where is amd at anyway - still 93nm?
11:37:41  <SHADOW-XIII> dihedral I think you mistake cpu with gpu, as far as I remember it's usualy gpu more hot than cpu
11:37:51  <dihedral> ........
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11:38:13  <dihedral> you think i am that stupid do you?
11:38:37  <TrueBrain> you want an answer to that?
11:38:38  <SHADOW-XIII> i am in no position to tell if you are or not because I do not know you
11:38:43  <dihedral> for one thing amd processors are a bit behind on the nm scale of things
11:38:45  <TrueBrain> (lol, didn't read the rest, only that line :p)
11:38:51  <dihedral> they are hungry for power
11:39:00  * dihedral slaps TrueBrain
11:39:02  <dihedral> :-P
11:39:12  <SHADOW-XIII> am hungry for power, does it make me hot ?
11:39:13  <SHADOW-XIII> :D
11:39:18  <TrueBrain> SHADOW-XIII: FAR from it
11:39:24  <dihedral> what happens with power most of the time?
11:39:56  <petern> we need a 100% power efficient cpu
11:40:00  <petern> no heatsink required :D
11:40:08  <dihedral> petern, LOL
11:40:17  <dihedral> need != get :-P
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11:40:35  <petern> shame that
11:40:44  <dihedral> hehe
11:40:45  <Yexo> and even if it was get, where would all the used power go? Or do you want a zero-power usage cpu?
11:41:10  <dihedral> 100% of the consumed power
11:41:15  <TrueBrain> ZPM!!
11:41:18  <dihedral> how much the cpu consumes was never mentiond
11:41:21  <TrueBrain> (watched too much Stargate Atlantis ...)
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11:41:29  <dihedral> hehe
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11:41:37  <Yexo> 100% of the consumed power <- what's with that?
11:41:39  <SHADOW-XIII> ZPM wasn't originiated from SG1 ?
11:41:57  <petern> 100% efficiency, not zero energy...
11:42:23  <TrueBrain> means really big wires :p
11:42:28  <blathijs> petern: CPU's are 100% efficient. They turn 100% of the input power into heat...
11:42:30  <Yexo> petern: 100% efficienciy doesn't tell you anything, as the consumed energy wil still be turned to heat
11:42:43  <TrueBrain> blathijs: 100% of the input to heat?! Wow .. that is scary :p
11:43:01  <petern> if 100% of it is heat, then there is 0% for actually running the cpu...
11:43:27  <Yexo> running the cpu = moving electrons -> heat
11:43:30  <blathijs> petern: Exactly! :-)
11:43:40  <dihedral> yexo, if there is 100% efeciancy there is 0% heat :-:
11:43:47  <TrueBrain> Yexo: but not all energy goes into making that heat, I might hope :p
11:43:55  <blathijs> TrueBrain: What else?
11:44:12  <dihedral> blathijs, the coffee mug on top
11:44:19  <Yexo> TrueBrain: I might hope it does, or would you prefer other radiation?
11:44:30  <TrueBrain> Yexo: haha, that for sure :)
11:44:32  <dihedral> hihi - i run head-pipes through my mug
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11:45:44  <blathijs> dihedral: That's still heat :-p
11:46:28  <dihedral> yes, but from the coffee to the cpu *cough*
11:46:42  <TrueBrain> I wonder how hot my PSU should be according to that statement Yexo .. ;)
11:49:14  <Yexo> efficiency is cleary computed in a different way for your psu, as it's outgoing / incoming, not used / incoming
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11:49:41  <TrueBrain> so ther eis nothing coming out of a CPU?
11:50:10  <Yexo> sure: heat :)
11:50:28  <TrueBrain> but ther eis also coming heat out of my PSU
11:50:35  <petern> i'm glad my mobile phone cpu is efficient
11:50:43  <petern> it would look silly with a bit heatsink and fan stuck on it
11:50:48  <TrueBrain> ergo, I am glad it is not a 100% 'efficiency'
11:50:55  <TrueBrain> lol @ petern
11:51:17  <Yexo> <TrueBrain> ergo, I am glad it is not a 100% 'efficiency' <- I don't follow you there, I'd love a psu with100% efficiency
11:51:23  <petern> of course it's suspended most of the time...
11:51:49  <TrueBrain> Yexo, or blathijs (sorry if I mix up the statements, but you two seem to agree :p): if a CPU has 100% efficiency because it turns 100% of the input to heat
11:51:54  <TrueBrain> we have a big problem with PSU
11:52:18  <Yexo> that really depends on how you define efficiency
11:52:30  <TrueBrain> doesn't matter which definition we use :) 100% is a value I hope we never reach
11:52:30  <Yexo> as I said, I don't know how to define it for cpus, for psus it's easy
11:52:33  <TrueBrain> means big big shit :s
11:52:40  <Yexo> true :)
11:52:59  <Yexo> but can you give a definition of efficiency for cpus?
11:53:09  <petern> generally in electrical terms, heat is a waste byproduct
11:53:10  <TrueBrain> [13:43] <TrueBrain> Yexo: but not all energy goes into making that heat, I might hope :p
11:53:14  <TrueBrain> [13:44] <Yexo> TrueBrain: I might hope it does <- glad we agree that is wrong ;)
11:53:31  <TrueBrain> petern: yup ....
11:53:36  <TrueBrain> nano-tubes have better ratios :)
11:53:42  <Booth> surely the more efficient somethingis the less energy is wasted wether htrough heat loss or power loss
11:53:52  <petern> right
11:54:02  * petern ponders the energy efficiency of an electric heater...
11:54:07  <TrueBrain> LOL!!
11:54:23  <Booth> erm electric heater are efficeint ?
11:55:13  <Yexo> <TrueBrain> [13:44] <Yexo> TrueBrain: I might hope it does <- glad we agree that is wrong ;) <- no, we don't agree there
11:55:24  <Yexo> I stil haven't seen a definition of 'efficiency' for cpus
11:55:29  <TrueBrain> [13:52] <TrueBrain> doesn't matter which definition we use :) 100% is a value I hope we never reach
11:55:30  <TrueBrain> [13:52] <Yexo> true :)
11:55:31  <Yexo> without that it's impossible to define it
11:55:55  <Yexo> TrueBrain> [13:52] <Yexo> true :) <- maybe that statement was wrong
11:55:58  <petern> my definition for electrical efficiency is amount of input energy wasted as heat
11:56:15  <TrueBrain> sounds as a good definition petern
11:56:37  <Yexo> so what happens to the input energy that is not converted to heat in a cpu?
11:57:29  <TrueBrain> when I put a lightbulb in a socket
11:57:35  <TrueBrain> and I put my finger on the 'nul'
11:57:39  <TrueBrain> would I get a shock?
11:58:06  <TrueBrain> (where the 'phase' is the wire delivering the current to the lightbulb)
11:58:14  <Yexo> I don't think so
11:58:23  <TrueBrain> PLEASE do not try ...
11:58:48  <Yexo> 'nul' is the 'aarde', right?
11:58:51  <TrueBrain> no
11:58:55  <TrueBrain> fase / nul / aarde
11:58:59  <Yexo> oh, then I didn't understood you
11:59:05  <TrueBrain> blue and black
11:59:08  <TrueBrain> brown and black
11:59:20  <TrueBrain> not the yellow/green wire :p
11:59:38  <TrueBrain> (or red in some countries :p)
12:00:44  <TrueBrain> problem a bit with my example is that normal circuits are AC .. but okay :)
12:00:46  <blathijs> Actually, nul is sortof aarde :-)
12:00:50  <blathijs> and aarde is randaarde :-p
12:00:59  <TrueBrain> blathijs: that I assumed Yexo meant, yes ;)
12:01:09  <petern> live, neutral, earth... sheesh
12:01:23  <petern> red, black, yellow/green
12:01:29  <blathijs> But usually, it's safe to touch the nul, because it is more or less 0V  :-)
12:01:30  <TrueBrain> petern: that are the english words for it? :)
12:01:30  <petern> except they changed it cos they're cocks
12:01:37  <petern> so brown, blue, yellow/green
12:01:42  <petern> yeah
12:01:45  <TrueBrain> good to know ;)
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12:02:53  <Booth> efficience is defiend by the amout on energy user to something useful and the amount of energy lost
12:03:09  <Booth> for example in a lightbulb you want it to create light
12:03:16  <Booth> but a byproduct is heat
12:03:59  <Booth> the cpu is not a heater so more energy used as heat the less efficient the cpu ix
12:04:01  <Booth> is
12:04:30  <Yexo> Booth: then maybe you can explain where the energy that is not turned into heat goes to?
12:04:39  <TrueBrain> Yexo: you really can't see that? :)
12:04:44  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, I wouldn't count on the colour of the cables, though.
12:04:48  <TrueBrain> Yexo: what if the CPU would only produce heat? What would it do?
12:04:52  <Yexo> TrueBrain: no, sorry
12:04:54  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: no! I have seen that in this building :(
12:04:55  <planetmaker> I've seen it wired wrongly...
12:05:01  <TrueBrain> Yexo: the CPU does something, not?
12:05:08  <Yexo> sure
12:05:09  <TrueBrain> I mean .. it has to .. what else use has it?
12:05:13  <TrueBrain> well .. define what a CPU does?
12:05:34  <Yexo> moving electrons around?
12:05:40  <TrueBrain> and what use would that do? :)
12:05:44  <planetmaker> it switches memory banks
12:05:50  <TrueBrain> what do CPUs have? Tons and tons of it?
12:06:02  <planetmaker> transistors. e.g. switches
12:06:09  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: let Yexo do the thinking :p
12:06:16  <planetmaker> :-X
12:06:17  <Yexo> no, that's fine
12:06:20  <TrueBrain> gheheh :)
12:06:35  <TrueBrain> Yexo: okay, I won't joke around: there are tons and tons and tons of transistors and other thingies in a CPU
12:06:39  <TrueBrain> doing the 'calculations' and shit
12:06:59  <Yexo> yes, I know that
12:07:00  <TrueBrain> I am trying to find a nice picture for 5 minutes now, but I fail to find one which shows wha tI mean in a clear way
12:07:39  <Booth> basicly they are very very fast binary counters
12:07:54  <Booth> each switch has 2 states
12:07:58  <TrueBrain> either way ... those need energy
12:07:58  <blathijs> TrueBrain: The point is that switching transistors doesn't "use" energy, it can't make energy disappear
12:08:02  <TrueBrain> which is not turned into heat :)
12:08:13  <Yexo> then what is it turned into?
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12:08:19  <TrueBrain> it used to be movement
12:08:27  <TrueBrain> but nowedays we use a bit more sophisticated transistors :)
12:08:32  <blathijs> TrueBrain: It's useful that they transistors do switching, but all the energy used for switching will become heat
12:08:34  <TrueBrain> the old ones were more clear how they work :p
12:08:36  <Yexo> then indirectly that movement is converted to heat
12:08:51  <planetmaker> :)
12:08:51  <blathijs> TrueBrain: When you slow something down, you generate heat again :-)
12:09:06  <blathijs> TrueBrain: And the transistors don't keep moving (they would end up outside of the processor then :-p)
12:09:08  <planetmaker> finally all power consumed by a CPU should go into heat :)
12:09:27  <blathijs> Really, a CPU is just a very expensive space heater
12:09:29  <Yexo> blathijs does at far better job at explaining, but that was my general thought
12:10:05  <TrueBrain> blathijs: that is very true :) Just I really really hope they do not put 100% of the energy to heat :p That would really be ... useless :)
12:10:19  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, but they eventually do...
12:10:25  <SHADOW-XIII> what grf files i need to get snow in temperate climate ?
12:10:36  <Yexo> SHADOW-XIII: alphine climate
12:10:43  <planetmaker> SHADOW-XIII, alpine climate. Which is a mod on arctic climate
12:10:47  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: well, I guess you are right there, in the end, energy is always converted to heat
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12:11:05  <TrueBrain> but I hope not by the CPU ... that was all I was trying to say here ;)
12:11:18  <TrueBrain> (and for sure not in terms of efficiency :))
12:11:20  <planetmaker> well... but where else should the power consumed by a cpu go, TrueBrain ?
12:11:21  <blathijs> TrueBrain: The point is that an "efficient" CPU just uses less energy to do its calculations. But it will still turn 100% of all the energy it uses into heat.
12:11:29  <planetmaker> ^^
12:11:37  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: side-components for one
12:11:48  <TrueBrain> but that is a bit cheezy, I guess :)
12:11:48  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, what "side componenents"?
12:11:48  <blathijs> TrueBrain: However, not all energy consumed by a _system_ ends up in the CPU, no
12:11:58  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: memory, south-bridge, north-bridge, ...
12:12:11  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, they have their own resistors and power consumption
12:12:21  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: but they get power from the CPU :)
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12:12:24  <blathijs> memory and bridges are again very nice space heaters :-p
12:12:25  <TrueBrain> well .. pwoer .. data
12:12:27  <TrueBrain> which is current :p
12:12:30  <TrueBrain> but as I said, cheezy :)
12:12:43  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Actually, the goal is to let data be voltage, not current
12:12:53  <TrueBrain> blathijs: fair enough :)
12:13:02  <TrueBrain> (although one can not live without the other)
12:13:10  <planetmaker> uhm... they have their own power supply basically, no? And if it's only by a voltage by-pass.
12:13:22  <SHADOW-XIII> there is in ottdc tempsnow.grf is is the same as apline ?
12:13:25  <blathijs> TrueBrain: But yeah, there will probably some energy leaking through data lines, but that will probably balance out both ways
12:13:37  <TrueBrain> blathijs: maybe better to say they both have a B and E field
12:13:42  <planetmaker> SHADOW-XIII, no... but I don't know :)
12:14:11  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: yexo * r16249 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_controller.hpp.sq: -Fix [NoAI]: Enable parameter checking for AIController::* functions again
12:14:28  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, uh... that's not making things easier, if you want to throw fields on it ;)
12:14:41  <TrueBrain> voltage and current are such tricky words
12:14:43  <TrueBrain> all I am saying ;)
12:14:56  <planetmaker> you can say much. I may disagree :)
12:15:13  <TrueBrain> lol; ass ;)
12:15:14  <planetmaker> fields is just a fuzzy word :)
12:15:32  <planetmaker> hehe :P
12:15:43  <SHADOW-XIII> strange thing in scenario editor, when I hold mouse on minimap icons, the last option is "World Population: 187" ... but 187 randomly changes to 704.918, while total population is 720.338 ... odd O_o
12:16:28  <TrueBrain> but okay, I guess Yexo is right about his request: define efficiency. I doubt you can define efficiency for a CPU with the total heat leaving the CPU. I think the only sane thing to do is how much energy is used to make it operational, and how much energy is lost during this making operational part ;)
12:16:43  <planetmaker> I think voltage and current define electronics better than a field approach :)
12:17:03  <TrueBrain> as in a total scheme, energy always comes and goes to heat
12:17:05  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, yes. Like energy / Gflop or so.
12:17:18  <Yexo> cpu efficiency is usually defined as total computation / energy used, but that doesn't say anything about heat (for a good reason)
12:17:29  <petern> yeah, the light in my house really heats it up :s
12:17:46  <TrueBrain> (even if that includes the bigbang, which you will need for certain operations :p)
12:17:54  <SHADOW-XIII> oh I know what we need in OTTD! in scenario editor a button to regenerate all industries so in case of putting ECS I hit one button and all old industr disappear and it puts new industry randmly on the map !
12:18:11  <petern> we need that!
12:18:13  <petern> :s
12:18:18  <Yexo> just a button to remove all industries should be enough for that
12:18:18  <planetmaker> totally. :P
12:18:28  <Yexo> but changing newgrfs is not supported, not even in the scenario editor
12:20:04  <SHADOW-XIII> Yexo : but if I change it will mess existing ones
12:20:15  <SHADOW-XIII> but if I remove all existing then should be fine
12:20:55  <Yexo> SHADOW-XIII: that's why I said changing newgrfs is not supported, you can do so at your own risk, but you should expect problems
12:21:55  <SHADOW-XIII> problems like ?
12:22:02  <Yexo> having said that, changing/adding industry newgrfs generally works fine, as long as you remove the old industries
12:22:59  <TrueBrain> blathijs: btw, one thing: CPUs leak current; but that is just an inefficient thingy :p
12:23:47  <TrueBrain> (in reply to the 0V over neutral .. doesn't hold for CPUs :p)
12:24:08  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Yeah, some amount of power is dissipated in wires
12:24:19  <blathijs> though the most part of that are wires inside the CPU :-)
12:24:55  <TrueBrain> and, some is even converted to static eletricity :p But that is a whole other subject ... ;)
12:24:59  <SHADOW-XIII> i think I know what Yexo meant .... ottd crash
12:25:59  <TrueBrain> I find google less and less useful to find things you are looking for :s
12:26:52  <SHADOW-XIII> stupid, i cannot demolish in scenario editor while in pause mode
12:27:52  <Yexo> there was a bit discussion about that lately, the current way (no command in paused mode in scenario editor) was concluded to be the most consistent with the rest of the game
12:31:06  <SHADOW-XIII> that's intresting, GRF files are in different order after loading a scenarion than before saving
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12:50:40  <SHADOW-XIII> whoa, Piracy Polical Party in Sweden just become 3rd largest in Sweden
12:50:59  <SHADOW-XIII> *Political
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12:51:48  <SHADOW-XIII> the pirate bay case made it quite popular
12:52:27  <SHADOW-XIII> omg ! you can easly win Mitshubishi car!
12:52:49  <petern> easily!
12:53:21  <SHADOW-XIII> in spain though ... you win the car by .... (that's the best) ... downloading it through p2p websites :D
12:53:23  <SHADOW-XIII> rofl
12:54:08  <SHADOW-XIII> http://www.bajateuncoltgratis.com/
12:54:25  <TrueBrain> downloading a car via p2p?
12:54:52  <SHADOW-XIII> yes, they put "car parts" (files) in p2p networks
12:55:01  <SHADOW-XIII> you assembley it via widget on that website
12:55:17  <SHADOW-XIII> once you fine 30 (all) parts and assembly car - you win - it's yours
13:00:52  <dihedral> pfft
13:01:01  <dihedral> alwyas these youths playing computer games
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13:03:40  <SHADOW-XIII> and you oldie ?
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13:10:53  <TrueBrain> how nice of MySQL to keep transaction logs by default ... doesn't take up any space or something ...
13:10:57  <TrueBrain> GRR @ defaults
13:13:50  <dihedral> what? your log partition is not 500GB in size?
13:14:10  <TrueBrain> this isn't even a file in /var/log
13:14:13  <TrueBrain> no, transaction logs
13:14:21  <TrueBrain> they go in /var/lib/mysql, as mysqld-bin
13:14:31  <planetmaker> he...
13:15:35  <dihedral> lol
13:15:37  <dihedral> :-P
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13:31:16  <Belugas> hello
13:31:28  <planetmaker> ola Belugas :)
13:32:00  <dihedral> run for your lives.... it's a Bel...aaaahhhhrrrrggggg
13:32:02  <TrueBrain> OH NO! A Belugas!!
13:32:05  <TrueBrain> lol
13:32:13  <TrueBrain> Belugas has that effect :p
13:32:17  <dihedral> :-P
13:32:18  <dihedral> hihi
13:34:58  * TrueBrain is waiting for his kernel compile to finish .. in a VM ... debian ... all modules ....
13:35:01  <TrueBrain> takes FOR EVER
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13:40:45  <dihedral> hehe
13:42:50  <Belugas> mmh...
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13:43:12  <Belugas> as far as i remember, belugas hever attacked humans... not like orcas...
13:43:29  <Belugas> but. hey... what the hell.. it's me!! And I do indeed attack humans!!
13:43:40  <dihedral> ^^
13:43:45  <dihedral> nice to see you sir ;-)
13:43:46  <TrueBrain> Belugas: now you scare me
13:43:50  * dihedral pets Belugas on the head
13:44:07  <Belugas> SNAP SNAP SNAP
13:44:44  <Milloflex> there should really be an idle time for all connected clients
13:44:51  <Milloflex> shouldn't be hard to implement either
13:45:02  <TrueBrain> so ... what is stopping you? :)
13:45:11  <Milloflex> me?
13:45:20  <TrueBrain> no, the ghost behind you
13:45:32  <De_Ghost> boo
13:45:34  <De_Ghost> :o
13:45:37  <Milloflex> xD
13:45:40  <planetmaker> :D
13:45:48  <Milloflex> thought you maybe spoke to someone else before I joined. got disconnected.
13:45:57  * fjb never idles here.
13:46:26  <Belugas> hey, TrueBrain, someone told me yesterday that you are an owl!
13:46:27  <Milloflex> fjb: i was talking bout openttd :p
13:46:36  <TrueBrain> oeh-oeh
13:46:40  <TrueBrain> Belugas: who did and why?
13:46:51  <Belugas> fuck
13:47:01  <Belugas> you're supposed to answer "who" only
13:47:09  <Belugas> than I'
13:47:19  <Belugas> d say: see?  He was right
13:47:25  <Belugas> you uined my joke :S
13:47:27  <Belugas> ruined
13:47:35  <TrueBrain> hahahaha :)
13:47:38  <TrueBrain> that would have been funny :p
13:47:38  <planetmaker> haha :)
13:48:31  <TrueBrain> sorry, Belugas, you want to try that again? :)
13:48:50  * petern 'accidentally' plays with synths, at work
13:49:08  <Belugas> "Hey TrueBrain, somebody told me yesterday that you are an owl"
13:49:13  <TrueBrain> who?!
13:49:27  <Belugas> see?  he was right
13:49:30  <TrueBrain> hahahahaha
13:49:38  <planetmaker> haha :)
13:49:45  <petern> :D
13:50:19  <dihedral> lol @ De_Ghost
13:51:28  <dihedral> Milloflex, what you want to do? kick, move to specs?
13:51:38  <dihedral> what do you consider 'idel'
13:51:47  <Milloflex> build idle would be easiest i think?
13:51:58  <dihedral> can you do it?
13:52:10  <Milloflex> when a client builds something / or company, it resets the idle to zero
13:52:11  <dihedral> and again, what do you consider idle
13:52:28  <dihedral> can i not quite validly watch my company?
13:52:28  <Milloflex> no i cant do it cause i'm not a coder ;- )
13:52:48  <dihedral> then why do you say 'easy to implement' or 'should be easiest' if you have no clue?
13:52:51  <TrueBrain> but .. you said it wasn't hard to implement ...
13:52:54  <Milloflex> yes of course you can. but good to see which company or client is active/idle
13:52:55  <TrueBrain> how would you know if you are not a coder?
13:52:58  <TrueBrain> giving bad information :'(
13:53:12  <Belugas> petern, accidently ??
13:53:18  * petern hugs Belugas
13:53:22  <Milloflex> ok, let me refrase. i'm not a c#/c++ coder.
13:53:32  <Belugas> purrrrrr purrrrrr
13:53:33  <dihedral> so you can learn and do it ^^
13:53:45  <TrueBrain> so without knowing the code ... you know that it is easy to implement .. still an amazing gift!
13:53:48  <TrueBrain> you should use it more often :)
13:54:02  <dihedral> perhaps you can help obama
13:54:06  <Milloflex> that's why i'm here for TrueBrain ;-)
13:54:17  <Milloflex> but really, would it be hard to implement?
13:54:27  <Milloflex> if not a client idle, then a company idle
13:54:28  <dihedral> it's tricky to define idle
13:54:37  <TrueBrain> most likely it will be relative simple if you got the 'idle' part defined well :)
13:54:53  <Belugas> petern, yesterday, i got at one of my colleague's house.  he is quite equipped with guitar gear.  including a synth guit.  only i can say is :  WOOOOOAAAAWWWW!!!!!!
13:54:54  <Milloflex> when someone builds soething that is assciated with the company/client the idle is reset. build idle.
13:55:08  <dihedral> yes we know that much
13:55:10  <TrueBrain> so if I monitor my network for N time, I am idle?!
13:55:12  <dihedral> but when is idle set?
13:55:13  <petern> cool
13:55:50  <Belugas> i MIGHT be ending up buying that part
13:56:03  <TrueBrain> Belugas: buy one for me too, would you? :)
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13:56:43  <dihedral> Milloflex, if you have a coding background, you can grab the source and see what you can do :-)
13:56:55  <Milloflex> dihedral:  as soon you join of course
13:57:13  * petern is pretty tempted to set up one of his spare bedrooms as a music room
13:57:24  <Milloflex> i just dont know if build actions is associated with a company or a specific client
13:57:28  <Belugas> of course, TrueBrain, i will.  But you'll have to come and pick it up ;)  fragile stuff...\
13:57:30  <dihedral> Milloflex, you silly!! what we want to know is when is someone idle enough to kick
13:57:34  <TrueBrain> Belugas: will do ;)
13:57:41  <Milloflex> eh, no kick
13:57:43  <Milloflex> heh
13:57:46  <planetmaker> but?
13:57:51  <Milloflex> didn't say anything about a kick
13:57:53  <dihedral> or any other action
13:57:57  <Milloflex> just want to know who is active in the game
13:58:06  <dihedral> active is a relative thing
13:58:12  <petern> wish i had a room the size of this office :s
13:58:16  <Milloflex> want to see the idle "counter" next to the company/username
13:58:19  <dihedral> scrolling around the map is active, yet not shown on the server
13:58:24  <planetmaker> just scrolling around on my screen, looking for tasks. Is it idle?
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13:58:30  * planetmaker hugs dih
13:58:44  <Milloflex> dihedral: of course. but i want to see who is actually doing something on the map.
13:58:51  <dihedral> sitting at work, looking at my screen - not coding anything - i am too idle and will be fired :-D
13:58:55  <planetmaker> signs?
13:58:57  <dihedral> me lazy
13:59:09  <Milloflex> yes it is the typ of idle i'm talking bout planetmaker.
13:59:17  <dihedral> Milloflex, and now, for what reason?
13:59:23  <planetmaker> is setting up a sign "doing something"?
13:59:41  <Milloflex> heh, to see who is actually playing "right now", dihedral
13:59:45  <dihedral> planetmaker, or editing the sign
13:59:49  <TrueBrain> what is playing?
13:59:58  <TrueBrain> scroll the map?
13:59:59  <Milloflex> lol
14:00:11  <Milloflex> tell me you are joking
14:00:12  <dihedral> placing a sign?
14:00:23  <dihedral> funny - he read my mind :-P
14:00:37  <TrueBrain> Milloflex: what we try to say, is that it is very hard to say when someone is idl
14:00:39  <TrueBrain> e
14:00:45  <dihedral> Milloflex, would 'idle' not be missleaading to others then?
14:00:46  <TrueBrain> and that it will result in more complains than it would do any good
14:01:19  <Milloflex> no its not. as soon as someone does preform an action that is sent to the server associated with the company or client, the "idle" is reset
14:01:34  <TrueBrain> so when I just monitor my network, I am idle?
14:01:36  <dihedral> how to go from a to z, truebrain says z where everybody else is trying to go via b, c, d, e, f, ....
14:01:37  <TrueBrain> sounds like a horrible idea
14:01:53  <Milloflex> yes .. but it's not a bout any kick feature nor antything
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14:02:03  <TrueBrain> so you join a network
14:02:05  <TrueBrain> watch the client list
14:02:06  <Milloflex> you should only see the idle time for each user
14:02:09  <TrueBrain> see 5 of the 6 people being 'idle'
14:02:13  <TrueBrain> and think: what a sucky server
14:02:18  <TrueBrain> while that might be completely wrong
14:02:22  <dihedral> Milloflex, so, how often you wanna update that counter?
14:02:25  <dihedral> every tick?
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14:03:03  <Milloflex> well at least every 1-10 seconds
14:03:13  <dihedral> whats that?
14:03:46  <dihedral> i dont know that mesurement :-P
14:04:00  <dihedral> lets say every day
14:04:01  <TrueBrain> I think Milloflex doesn't _want_ to see the problem here :)
14:04:13  <dihedral> no
14:04:14  <Milloflex> heh
14:04:17  <dihedral> probably not
14:04:24  <dihedral> but he is special
14:04:30  <dihedral> he's no coder, but he is :-P
14:04:37  <dihedral> and he 'knows' stuff ^^
14:04:38  <Milloflex> i dont think you see the "feature" and the usage of it
14:04:48  <dihedral> no
14:04:53  <TrueBrain> Milloflex: I only see bug reports and complaints :)
14:05:02  <Milloflex> heh alright
14:05:05  <dihedral> we see no way to decently implement what we understand under 'idle'
14:05:23  <TrueBrain> but if you manage to find a way to define the idle part better, it might work
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14:05:32  <TrueBrain> just 'commands send to the server' would not be enough
14:05:39  <Milloflex> how come?
14:05:45  <TrueBrain> do you read anything we say? :)
14:05:56  <Milloflex> every last word of it
14:05:58  <dihedral> because i can scroll the map and that makes me 'not idle' but the server would not know of that
14:05:59  <TrueBrain> you can, for example, give an indication of building. Like: did N building actions in the last 5 minutes
14:06:05  <TrueBrain> that is a fair way of messuring
14:06:24  <Milloflex> yeah
14:06:30  <Milloflex> that would work
14:06:39  <dihedral> uh - game is paused - nobody is idle
14:07:07  <dihedral> or everybody is :-P
14:07:29  <dihedral> feel free to let every client notify the server of scrolling action :-P
14:07:33  <dihedral> bb2 would like it
14:07:48  <Milloflex> well if that's your agument then you really dont understand the usage :p
14:08:26  <TrueBrain> so tell, what would the usage be? :)
14:08:37  <Milloflex> would more like to see the activity (or lack of it) of a company/client
14:08:46  <Milloflex> like you said TrueBrain
14:08:50  <TrueBrain> I have a real problem with that word 'activity'
14:09:02  <TrueBrain> monitoring a (train)network is activity :)
14:09:06  <Milloflex> building activity?
14:09:27  <dihedral> that is limited activity
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14:10:46  <dihedral> Milloflex, do you understand if we say it's too vague?
14:11:11  <dihedral> but - you might like bb2
14:11:21  <dihedral> it's a 'big brother' patch :-P
14:11:23  <Belugas> i prefer bbq, personanly
14:11:40  <dihedral> big brother queue
14:11:51  <TrueBrain> hmmm ... bbq! :)
14:12:09  * petern hungers
14:12:21  <dihedral> the big brother patch allows 'watching' build actions from other clients :-D
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14:40:57  <dihedral> wow - you must be a bored bitch!!
14:41:24  <Belugas> logs reading
14:41:25  <Belugas> yeah
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14:50:39  <Belugas> :(
14:50:42  <Belugas> not fair!
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14:52:36  <dihedral> HAHA
15:01:15  <frosch123> 3D Realms has closes :o
15:01:58  <dihedral> uh - lets make an open source version of duke nukem 3d
15:02:01  <dihedral> open duke :-D
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15:03:06  <frosch123> but, but, but, ... when shall dbset 0.9, ttdp 2.6 and ottd 1.0 get released now?
15:03:17  <dihedral> uh....
15:03:25  <dihedral> 1.0 is WAY in the future
15:04:45  <petern> there already are versions of duke nukem 3d
15:06:03  *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
15:06:30  <dihedral> but a different dev team, that's no fun then
15:08:49  <petern> no fun at all
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15:11:45  <Belugas> and yet you want to add another dev team ????
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15:12:06  <dihedral> no no :-P
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15:22:35  <dihedral> what's actually up with Rubidium?
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15:24:34  <Ammler> frosch123: what will be first? dbset or openttd 0.9? ;-)
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15:25:07  <frosch123> who cares if there is no dnf
15:25:59  <orudge> but then what will slashdotters use as some kind of "hah, I bet we'll see DNF before that!" benchmark? :p
15:28:11  <frosch123> propose dbxl 0.9
15:28:40  <orudge> heh
15:28:59  <frosch123> 4 years is at least a third of 12
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15:34:03  <Belugas> Ammler, why do you ask? you took some bets and you want to have an insider in order to win?  In that case, we'll split the gains!
15:35:42  * petern prefers to bang grains
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15:40:01  <Ammler> Belugas: I made indeed a bet about dbsetxl 0.9 :-)
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16:23:38  <planetmaker> g'evening
16:23:43  <Booth> evening
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16:39:50  <hoax> hi
16:39:51  <hoax> <;
16:41:15  *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEabb0.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:42:44  <hoax> http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2843/hoax.png
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16:47:02  <planetmaker> and what does that tell us, hoax ?
16:47:28  <hoax> train accident
16:48:13  <planetmaker> well. shit happens. Or rather happens, if strees / rails are constructed ... not optimally.
16:48:32  <hoax> read the sign too on the popup :)
16:50:32  <planetmaker> ha...
16:52:02  <petern> well
16:52:04  <petern> i don't get it
16:53:07  <Ammler> hoax: use pbs
16:53:40  <frosch123> or don't build such signs
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16:54:56  <planetmaker> I guess it's a "joke".
16:55:32  <Ammler> hoax: the bus you destroyed is from Sasha?
16:55:42  <Ammler> else, it isn't fun.
16:55:57  <hoax> else it is fun :)
16:56:24  <hoax> it was an AI bus
17:01:08  *** Zantor [46ed808a@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
17:01:18  <hoax> hi Zantor
17:01:24  <Zantor> oh hai hoax
17:01:29  <hoax> <;
17:01:38  <Zantor> how are you today?
17:01:49  <hoax> i'm cool you?
17:01:56  <Zantor> I am doing well
17:01:56  <hoax> was playing multiplayer
17:07:39  <Zantor> ah
17:07:49  <Zantor> I will be leaving soon
17:07:51  <Zantor> I have a lunch appointment
17:08:55  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16250 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp: -Fix (r16242): do not try to unpause when paused for a joining company
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17:10:18  <SHADOW-XIII> I was wondering, are there any special version of ottd in the trunk ? like one wih cargodest here ( http://www.openttd.org/en/download-cargodest ) ??
17:10:52  <Zantor> well not for another half hour
17:10:55  <Rubidium> if it would be in trunk it wouldn't be special
17:14:19  <Belugas> SHADOW-XIII, trunk is just the name of the space where the last development of OpenTTD is.  Nothing more nothing less.  Everything that is nt the main OpenTTD Code is not the trunk
17:14:28  <Belugas> same for th nightlies and such
17:14:40  <Belugas> don't confuse a server and a codebase
17:15:15  <SHADOW-XIII> all right, but cargodest got download on official website, is there any other patch like that ?
17:15:22  <Sacro> nightlies are just trunk snapshots
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17:17:42  <Wolf01> hello
17:18:25  *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
17:18:25  <Yexo> hello wolf
17:18:28  <Yexo> Sacro: yes
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17:20:22  <Yexo> SHADOW-XIII: there are iS2 binaries (not at openttd.org), but compiled by the openttd.org compile farm
17:20:29  <Yexo> and also there are head-to-head binaries
17:20:55  <Zantor> Yexo: what is the compile farm composed of?
17:20:57  <TrueBrain> a Rubidium in this channel .. scary :p
17:21:07  <Yexo> Zantor: ask TrueBrain or Rubidium
17:21:18  <TrueBrain> out of compilers :)
17:21:26  <Belugas> Zantor: binary cows, binary sheeps... stuff like that
17:21:27  <Zantor> lol
17:21:31  <Zantor> what hardware do you use, truebrain?
17:21:41  <TrueBrain> a quad core Xeon thingy I believe
17:21:52  <TrueBrain> (well, the quad I am sure of, the Xeon not completely :p)
17:21:53  <Zantor> single machine, or is it divided using clustered computing?
17:21:58  <TrueBrain> virtual machines :)
17:22:04  <Belugas> with nitrogen cooling
17:22:12  <Belugas> and thermonuclear power source
17:22:13  <Zantor> I find that hard to believe, beluaas
17:22:15  <Zantor> belugas*
17:22:21  <Zantor> plutonium
17:22:26  <Belugas> good, you start to know me !
17:22:30  <Zantor> lol
17:22:39  <Zantor> are you a nuclear energy person?
17:22:52  <Zantor> as in do you like or study or work with nuclear energy?
17:23:17  <frosch123> yup, he works with nuclear energy
17:23:18  <Wolf01> my computer's power source is a "swear power generator"
17:23:25  <Eddi|zuHause> afaik Belugas is into accounting software...
17:23:53  <frosch123> every morning he has to take some plutionium, else he runs out of energy
17:24:06  <Zantor> lol
17:24:12  <Rubidium> lots in here are working on the nucleii of OpenTTD, which can drain quite a bit of energy
17:24:27  <Zantor> oi
17:24:32  <Eddi|zuHause> well, he should travel into the year 2015 any install a "mr. fusion"
17:25:49  * petern continues playing with synths
17:25:58  <Belugas> accounting?  nononono Point Of Sales software.  More oriented in electronic payments.
17:25:58  <petern> and his lava lamp
17:26:05  <petern> which is obviously required
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17:26:12  <Belugas> and I use plutonimum to kick ass on forums
17:26:32  <Belugas> lava lamp... hooo :)  /me wants one!
17:26:42  <petern> hah
17:26:43  * dihedral wonders what a "joining company" is, as Rubidium stated in the commit message ^^
17:26:49  <petern> it's not that exciting :)
17:27:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: i have no idea what a "point of sales" is
17:27:39  <SHADOW-XIII> ugh ... defiently random industry generator needs update: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=110515 check it out !
17:27:47  <petern> Eddi|zuHause, tills
17:28:13  <SHADOW-XIII> no place to build left :/
17:28:13  <Zantor> Eddi|zuHause, Sie sind Deutsch, ja?
17:28:14  <petern> software that is run at... a point... of sale...
17:28:15  <dihedral> SHADOW-XIII, same industry close is on, so is multiple industries per town
17:28:18  <dihedral> + you are using ECS
17:28:31  <SHADOW-XIII> funny
17:28:32  <Yexo> and number of industries is most likely set to high
17:28:35  <Belugas> cash register in a store, Eddi|zuHause
17:28:36  <Yexo> or at least normal
17:28:59  <dihedral> aye
17:29:00  <Eddi|zuHause> aha.
17:29:11  <dihedral> and that just looks expected to me SHADOW-XIII
17:29:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Zantor: this is an english speaking channel
17:29:24  <Zantor> okay; oi
17:29:27  <Rubidium> Yexo: don't forget the "multiple industries per town" and "industries close to eachother" enabled
17:29:37  <Zantor> I am aware of the rule; I thought I"d throw a line out in German. I wont' bother again
17:29:40  <Yexo> Rubidium: dihedral mentioned those already
17:29:49  <Belugas> also called Piece Of Shit by the users...
17:29:53  <Zantor> lol
17:29:55  <Belugas> Point Of sales -> POS
17:30:04  <Zantor> POS = piece of s***
17:30:07  <Rubidium> Yexo: must have missed that ;)
17:30:10  <planetmaker> haha
17:30:24  <planetmaker> @Zantor
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17:30:43  <Belugas> but of course, that only apply to the competition, not to my product ;)
17:30:50  <planetmaker> :)
17:31:15  <dihedral> lol = lacht oft laut :-P
17:31:35  <Zantor> well hey I g2g I have a lunch appointment. ttyl
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17:35:20  <Belugas> #What have i become?
17:35:27  <Belugas> #My sweetest friend
17:35:33  <Rubidium> too busy at work?
17:35:34  <Xaroth> o_O
17:35:51  <Belugas> waiting for the full recomplie
17:35:55  <Belugas> recompile
17:36:42  <Wolf01> http://xkcd.com/303/
17:36:45  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: translators * r16251 /trunk/src/lang/ (danish.txt romanian.txt welsh.txt):
17:36:45  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-05-07 17:36:23
17:36:45  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: danish - 26 fixed, 1 changed by ThomasA (27)
17:36:45  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: romanian - 1 fixed by kkmic (1)
17:36:45  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: welsh - 10 fixed by welshdragon (10)
17:36:59  <welshdragon> :o
17:37:06  <welshdragon> yay!
17:37:24  <Xaroth> welsh?!?
17:37:27  <Xaroth> poor game..
17:37:29  * Xaroth hides
17:39:54  * welshdragon kicks Xaroth
17:40:35  <Xaroth> can't kick what ye can't see
17:40:36  <Wolf01> you can't, he's hidden, you must find him
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17:56:19  <Eddi|zuHause> http://pics.nase-bohren.de/HowToRuinAFerrari.jpg
17:56:34  <TrueBrain> ieuw ieuw ieuw
17:56:43  <Rubidium> someone must be bored
17:57:00  <Rubidium> and "Hello Kitty" is kewl ;)
17:59:38  <Rubidium> http://www.hotelchatter.com/story/2007/5/16/104138/231/hotels/ ;)
18:00:35  <Rubidium> a multi-purpose Hello Kitty hotel room
18:00:45  <Laurens> Hello Kitty =D
18:01:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: somehow that does not work well together in my mind...
18:03:28  <Laurens> I think I would get nightmares in that room :O
18:03:35  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: do you know this place from personal experience? :p
18:04:01  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway... off to watch lost
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18:19:57  <Dany007> hey
18:20:03  <planetmaker> ho
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18:21:39  <Dany007> what's up people?
18:21:50  <Belugas> work?
18:21:54  <Belugas> yeah
18:21:55  <Belugas> work
18:22:22  <Belugas> you?
18:22:36  <Dany007> nice
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18:24:10  <TrueBrain> what a rude person
18:24:35  <TrueBrain> he didn't even give me his pincode!
18:24:48  <Sacro> mine is 8
18:24:53  <TrueBrain> I will remember that
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18:47:12  <Wolf01> wow, shadow+batti5+klanticus combo!
18:48:24  <batti5> what?
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18:49:40  <frosch123> don't immitate benny
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18:54:59  <Eddi|zuHause> what's a klanticus?
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19:00:14  <planetmaker> hehe @ frosch123 :P
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19:27:49  <Wolf01> 'night
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19:45:25  <el_en> wtf, germany about to ban paintball?
19:45:43  <frosch123> two votes this year
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20:00:19  <planetmaker> el_en: I hope not.
20:00:34  <planetmaker> Not that I played it so far. But it would be sooo stupid... :S
20:02:05  <davis-> germany is going crazy
20:02:12  <davis-> internet censoreship etc :)
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20:04:00  <dihedral> welcome to china_de
20:05:11  <davis-> stasi 2.0 schäuble here we go
20:05:12  <davis-> :]
20:05:30  <planetmaker> schn?ffel-sch?uble :P
20:05:43  <davis-> time to move to sweden. lol
20:06:04  <planetmaker> he... finland. Then you can keep the currency
20:06:16  <davis-> works too , i suppose
20:06:20  <dihedral> "schnupper kurs"
20:06:29  <davis-> ^_^
20:07:39  <davis-> http://341198amt.googlepages.com/raeder.jpg/raeder-full;init:.jpg
20:08:41  <dihedral> http://nichtlustig.de/toondb/090415.html
20:09:13  <davis-> lol
20:10:42  <dihedral> http://nichtlustig.de/toondb/090319.html
20:10:44  <dihedral> HAHA
20:11:55  <davis-> tadeus
20:13:11  <dihedral> http://nichtlustig.de/toondb/090217.html <- more fun :-P
20:13:19  <dihedral> this is too good
20:13:49  <davis-> ja just seen that
20:14:11  <davis-> tbh i like Cyanide and Happiness better :p
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20:40:31  <Belugas> boring bored boredom of bore
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20:40:59  <Belugas> i log in my logs that logging all day long is ...
20:41:04  <Belugas> boooooorriiiing
20:41:15  <TrueBrain> poor Belugas
20:44:31  <Belugas> yeah
20:44:38  <Belugas> poor little whity me
20:45:21  <Xaroth> do like i do, have an ubuntu VM active, one workspace for .. 'work'.. second for freeciv ...
20:45:38  <Xaroth> then just have a game of AI only, and watch the show
20:45:50  <TrueBrain> the newest freeciv sucks
20:46:00  <TrueBrain> I don't understand the GUI ..
20:46:04  <TrueBrain> it no longer is ... logic
20:46:04  <Xaroth> me neither
20:46:06  <TrueBrain> or .. findable :(
20:46:07  <Xaroth> that's why i let the AI play
20:46:36  <TrueBrain> hehe
20:47:16  <TrueBrain> the next step in my 16bit -> C thingy is going to hurt ....
20:47:19  <TrueBrain> requires ... time ...
20:47:30  <TrueBrain> (validation of my results :p)
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20:59:10  * Belugas is breaking up his chains and runs for the first door
20:59:36  <Rubidium> the one to the bathroom?
20:59:40  * Belugas is getting out of the toilets and chooses another door
20:59:50  <Belugas> too fast you are :D
21:00:08  <Belugas> either way... have a nice evening all !
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21:00:25  <Rubidium> night Belugas
21:00:38  <Rubidium> have a safe trip
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21:09:43  <NightKhaos> Okay so I have been mastering PBS... and I'm wonder what would be the optium value to put pf.yapf.rail_pbs_signal_back_penalty at in order to allow passing on bidirectional track when there is a fast train stuck behind a slow one. I am almost tempted to set this to 0, but that may cause the YAPF to give some really bogus routes (i.e. traveling on the wrong side of the track is = traveling on the right side of the tra
21:09:46  <NightKhaos> ck for trains in terms of penalties)
21:12:23  <NightKhaos> Any ideas... maybe this is one thing I need to experiment with rather than ask eh?
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21:30:36  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: yexo * r16252 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Add [NoAI]: AIAirport::GetPrice, returning the building cost of an airport
21:32:10  <NightKhaos> Okay.... that is odd... 0 has exactly the behaviour I wanted and not the behaviour I expected it... by the looks of it YAPF looks for the next signal as the target... so it won't just "glide along the wrong path" as I thought might happen.
21:32:53  <NightKhaos> the funny thing is that the fast and the slow train can have an "arguement" over who is meant to be the fastest!
21:33:50  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: yexo * r16253 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_controller.cpp ai_controller.hpp ai_controller.hpp.sq): -Add [NoAI]: AIController::GetVersion, this returns the newgrf-version of OpenTTD
21:34:41  <NightKhaos> ah damnit... I just saw a train reserve an entire 4 signals worth.
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21:46:52  <NightKhaos> Now I found out something even more interesting, the ICE train, supposed to be capable of 92 m/s tops out at 83 m/s
21:46:58  <NightKhaos> (in the 2cc set)
21:47:29  <NightKhaos> it seems depedent on the number of carriages.
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21:54:49  <NightKhaos> okay so I decided to do performance tests on the high speed trains for some reason, we have the three different TGVs vs an ICE and an HSA,
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22:01:51  <NightKhaos> And we have results... anyone wanna see?
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22:02:06  <NightKhaos> (assuming someone is alive to want to see)
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22:03:25  <Zantor> nightkhaos, are you testing these trains in OpenTTD?
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22:14:37  <Xaroth> I take it there -is- some kind of failsafe against 'rogue' clients sending rcon packets without being joined in the game, right?.. been looking around in the source but found nothing much so far
22:15:22  <planetmaker> Xaroth: a clientlist is maintained.
22:15:37  <planetmaker> and the clientID is transmitted.
22:15:46  <planetmaker> afaik. I might err, though
22:16:00  <Xaroth> heh, that's why i asked
22:16:05  <Xaroth> i see things with the clientID
22:16:10  <Xaroth> but I don't see any validation
22:16:35  <Xaroth> which, technically, means you can send rcon commands without being actually ingame
22:16:46  <Xaroth> which, well, would be useful for some
22:17:41  <Muxy> if a client is not ingame, then where is he ?
22:18:10  <Xaroth> well, it'd basically be an udp packet being transmitted to the server
22:18:27  <Rubidium> in the wrong place
22:18:29  <Muxy> there is something i use sometime
22:18:54  <Muxy> you can be connected and you have not requested the map
22:19:04  <Xaroth> it could be well useful for outside connections to be able to do rcon .. but there might be a bit of a safety issue
22:19:16  <Muxy> then rcon packet are transmitted and replied if password is ok
22:19:55  <Xaroth> yeh, there's a difference between being connected and waiting for the map.. and being a total outside connection :P
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22:20:14  <Zantor> Rubidium
22:20:17  <Muxy> i'm not sure rcon is handled in the udp system
22:20:29  <Xaroth> it is
22:20:38  <Zantor> do you remember when hoax and I were exchanging comments and screenshots of the map he made yesterday?
22:20:44  <Xaroth> network_server.cpp @ DEF_SERVER_RECEIVE_COMMAND(PACKET_CLIENT_RCON)
22:20:49  <Zantor> when and if, rather
22:21:04  <Muxy> that for the tcp system, not udp
22:21:14  <Rubidium> not really
22:21:32  <Rubidium> but then the question is "what is yesterday"
22:22:29  <Zantor> oi vey; I keep forgetting day and night are relative on the Internet
22:22:52  <Zantor> about 11 PM GMT-6 May 6, '09
22:22:56  <Xaroth> Muxy: I doubt that..
22:23:01  <Muxy> not me
22:23:50  <Rubidium> Zantor: very unlikely then (unless you're a full day and a bit off)
22:24:45  <Zantor> give or take a couple hours
22:25:04  <Zantor> somebody was around part of the time. either you or xaroth
22:25:13  <Zantor> booth in #openttdcoop was fussing at me earlier about distribution rights
22:25:27  <Zantor> which I had no idea you OpenTTDers are picky about
22:25:43  <Booth> no
22:25:47  <Booth> i wanted a copy
22:25:56  <Booth> but didnt want anyone to be upset
22:26:05  <Zantor> oh
22:26:06  <Muxy> Udp packet are received in the udp.ccp and handled in void NetworkUDPSocketHandler::HandleUDPPacket
22:26:18  <Zantor> I apologize for the misunderstanding, booth
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22:26:36  <Booth> its my fault
22:26:39  <Zantor> text can be easy to misconstrue or misunderstand
22:26:43  <Xaroth> Zantor: don't look at me
22:26:44  <Booth> i should have made myself clearer
22:26:47  <Xaroth> I was working on AutoTTD last night
22:26:57  <Zantor> Xaroth, do you keep chat logs?
22:27:01  <Xaroth> yes
22:27:06  <Booth> doesnt everyone?
22:27:11  <Zantor> do you stay connected 24/7?
22:27:15  <Zantor> mibbit won't let me save logs
22:27:29  <planetmaker> @logs
22:27:32  <Zantor> so I don't, but I did when I used Trillian
22:27:48  <Xaroth> last night, ~ midnight
22:27:48  <Zantor> so Xaroth, do you stay connected 24/7?
22:27:50  <planetmaker> hm... http://thegrebs.com/irc/openttd/2009/02/02
22:27:56  <Rubidium> Zantor: it wasn't me and I'm quite sure about it 'cause I wasn't in THIS channel yesterday (or rather: I wasn't here for more than a week) and came back about 8 hours ago
22:28:08  <Xaroth> and it was csokisnyuszi
22:28:08  <Zantor> okay
22:28:12  <Zantor> yes
22:28:15  <Zantor> he changed his nick to hoax
22:28:22  <Xaroth> I only gave pointers for the junctionary
22:28:26  <Xaroth> then i went back to AutoTTD
22:28:29  <Zantor> okay
22:28:41  <Zantor> as booth said, he wanted a copy but idk about distro rights and stuff
22:29:04  <Zantor> I haven't known maps to be so controlled in a community
22:29:18  <Xaroth> if he pasted in public it's public domain, if he sent it to you privately, it's a different issue
22:29:27  <Zantor> he did not send to me privately
22:29:41  <Zantor> he posted the link in the public channel, right here
22:29:59  <Booth> then no distro issues
22:30:05  <Booth> you could send it to me
22:30:06  <Zantor> okay
22:30:08  <Zantor> I will
22:30:10  <Booth> if you have original
22:30:11  <Zantor> one moment
22:30:18  <Rubidium> what are 'distro issues'?
22:30:39  <Zantor> booth asked me in #openttdcoop if I had distro rights
22:30:48  <Booth> giving out other peoples thing that dont belong to you
22:30:59  <Zantor> I understand that
22:31:38  <Zantor> but being in a community of modders that are open about handing out their complete works had me confused
22:31:38  <Rubidium> that all depends on the license
22:31:54  <Zantor> in regards to the map I was referring to
22:32:11  <Zantor> the download link was put in the channel publicly and he offered for people to try it out
22:32:28  <Xaroth> Rubidium: no license given and distributed to public.
22:32:46  <Zantor> I downloaded it and after putting it in the appropriate folder I started it up and began playing around
22:33:32  <Zantor> since there doesn't seem to be any distribution rights/privileges issues, I will upload it for booth to download
22:34:33  <Zantor> http://mibbit.com/up/CbkUjzgB.scn this is the version that starts at 1960. the original started at 2040 and after some feedback I gave he made another one that started earlier
22:35:05  <Zantor> original file name was tycoon_1960.scn
22:35:35  <Zantor> are we all level now?
22:36:02  <Booth> thanks
22:36:10  <Zantor> have fun
22:36:16  <Zantor> you can make loads on it
22:36:28  <Zantor> and make gargantuan trains
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23:15:36  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
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