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Log for #openttd on 17th June 2009:
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00:03:32  <chaos95> I tried simutrans last night
00:03:36  <chaos95> blech.
00:18:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> which part of that is helping the discussion right now?
00:18:26  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
00:19:54  <chaos95> there's a discussion right now?
00:20:46  <Eddi|zuHause> well, there would be, if you were actually starting one.
00:22:24  <chaos95> well I guess I was kind of hoping to, with that simutrans comment
00:36:01  <Eddi|zuHause> well, a proper discussion needs actual substance to get started
00:36:27  <Eddi|zuHause> "blech" isn't exactly a great deal of substance
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00:56:14  <chaos95> I was merely expressing my distaste for the game in general, as it compares to openttd
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01:01:12  <Zantor> anyone around?
01:02:17  * welshdragon snores
01:02:29  * Zantor pokes welshdragon
01:11:34  <Zantor> it seems I have to get on in the morning to find this channel active
01:11:42  <Zantor> get up, rather
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01:42:48  <Eddi|zuHause> well... certainly 3AM is not the most active time...
01:43:38  <Eddi|zuHause> mandatory phrase of any horror movie
01:43:43  <Eddi|zuHause> "we should split up"
01:45:51  <Eoin> lol
01:46:03  <kkb110> here is still 9pm :D
01:48:00  <Eoin> 2.47am
01:54:27  <helb> 3:54 am, too much coffee :/
01:54:47  <Eoin> im supposed to have school today
01:54:53  <Eoin> i dont think i shall go :D
01:56:03  <helb> :D
02:01:04  <Eoin> anyone intresting in pissing off some iranian government stuff?
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06:28:08  <andythenorth> RV action 0 prop 14...Weight in 1/4 tons
06:28:08  <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0RoadVehicles#Action_0_Properties_for_road_vehicles
06:28:08  <andythenorth> So if I have a vehicle weight of 12t, I set prop 14 to \b48 or \b3 ??
06:28:08  <andythenorth> (sorry, this is me being dense about documentation)
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06:29:45  <Eddi|zuHause> 12t = 12*4/4 t = 12*4* (1/4 t) = 48*(1/4 t)
06:34:33  <andythenorth> thanks Eddi
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06:56:28  <Eddi|zuHause> can't argue with the maths ;)
07:01:07  <petern> surely yorick1234 is yorick...
07:07:13  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i was thinking the same, but couldn't get to a definite conclusion
07:08:49  <Eddi|zuHause> "Beginning in the 1920s, General Motors began investing in mass transit systems. According to historian Marty Jezer (and Congressional hearings held in 1974), between 1920 and 1955, General Motors bought up more than 100 electric mass transit systems in 45 cities, allowed them to deteriorate, and then replaced them with rubber-tired, diesel-powered buses. [1] Buses are more expensive, less efficient, and much dirtier than electric/rail
07:08:51  <Eddi|zuHause> systems. (And of course automobiles are even less efficient than buses, by far.) In 1949, General Motors, Firestone Rubber, and Standard Oil of California were convicted by a federal jury of criminally conspiring to replace electric mass transit with GM-manufactured diesel buses; in a noteworthy illustration of justice for corporations, the court fined GM 00 and forced H.C. Crossman, the GM executive responsible for carrying out GM's
07:08:52  <Eddi|zuHause> policy, to pay .00."
07:09:00  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... that was longer than i thought...
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09:03:05  <Nekomaster> Hello
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09:04:34  <Nekomaster> Hello??
09:05:42  <Rubidium> bye!!
09:11:53  <dihedral> oh my - what does HE want?
09:12:08  <dihedral> this can only become amusing :-)
09:12:22  <dihedral> s/become/turn out to be/
09:13:12  <dihedral> how are you Nekomaster? finally able to compile openttd yourself, or does your (new) computer also freeze when watching youtube videos?
09:22:20  <Nekomaster> Nope
09:22:31  <Nekomaster> my old pc had a Faulty Celeron D
09:23:06  <Nekomaster> my new pc has a overclocked AMD Athlong 64 x2 5200+ at 2.9GHz with a ASUS triton Dual Fan Cooler
09:23:08  <Nekomaster> :D
09:23:30  <Nekomaster> with 4GB DDR2 Ram at 1066MHz
09:23:31  <Nekomaster> :D
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09:24:05  <dihedral> "The 'Reintegrate' mode is used to allow the Subversion to merge from the branch the changes skipping the ones the same for the version you are merging into and the branch you are merging from." <- subversive documentation sucks :-P
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09:25:01  <dihedral> Nekomaster, and the fact that the cpu was 'faulty' only showed in youtube and when compiling openttd?
09:25:49  <dihedral> AMD's have too little 2nd level cache for my taste :-(
09:26:17  <Nekomaster> well Intels are a little to pricy for my taste
09:26:25  <TinoDidriksen> Overclocked, hmm...people still do that.
09:26:38  <dihedral> TinoDidriksen, not really :-P
09:26:50  <dihedral> only some who think they they are clever when doing so
09:26:55  <Nekomaster> Yeah, power users that BUILD their OWN pc
09:26:58  <dihedral> and only those who think that MHz is all that matters
09:27:22  <Nekomaster> Oh plus my GPU is Oc'ed
09:27:27  <Nekomaster> to 600MHz :D
09:27:28  <dihedral> hehe - this is getting more amusing than i had thought
09:27:33  <Nekomaster> Burger
09:27:37  <TinoDidriksen> I build my own machines. I never overclock. Last I did that was my Pentium 75MHz to 90MHz.
09:27:45  <Nekomaster> wow
09:27:58  <dihedral> this is cute ;-)
09:28:02  <Nekomaster> why would you not OC todays CPU's
09:28:05  <dihedral> TinoDidriksen, i dont overclock my boxes either
09:28:12  <Nekomaster> WHY DO YOU NOT OC!
09:28:14  <TinoDidriksen> I like my machines stable.
09:28:15  <dihedral> there is no need to Nekomaster
09:28:27  <Nekomaster> Do you not play modern games?
09:28:39  <Nekomaster> Like Crisis, fear, Oblivions
09:28:43  <Rubidium> Nekomaster: because I like to be able to touch my laptop's keyboard
09:28:43  <Nekomaster> Oblivion
09:28:44  <dihedral> last time i played a game is like 9 months back
09:28:58  <Nekomaster> Wow
09:29:05  <Nekomaster> what about openTTD?
09:29:14  <dihedral> + overclocking to play a game?? seriously!!
09:29:24  <Nekomaster> yeah
09:29:33  <dihedral> that is just the stupidest thing i have heard in the past 10 years
09:29:33  <Nekomaster> though it doesn't help GTA : SA
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09:29:35  <TinoDidriksen> FEAR is not a modern game...even my laptop can play that nicely looking.
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09:30:04  <Nekomaster> Ok now you making me look like a fool
09:30:08  <dihedral> no
09:30:12  <Nekomaster> You making me angery
09:30:14  <dihedral> you can do that well enough by yourself :-D
09:30:28  <dihedral> you dont ne our help for that :P
09:30:32  <Nekomaster> F You! I hate a**hole like you!
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09:30:42  <TinoDidriksen> And I don't need to overclock. I have a 3.06GHz C2D, 4GB RAM. And it's silent...I value silence.
09:31:06  <Nekomaster> So, my PC is quitter then my Heat fan
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09:31:34  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*Nekomaste@*.dsl.bell.ca] by petern
09:31:34  *** Nekomaster was kicked from #openttd by petern [no need]
09:31:51  <dihedral> "quitter" ?
09:32:24  <dihedral> aw - it was getting amusing
09:33:34  * dihedral wonders if that will result in a forum post :-P
09:33:52  <Rubidium> I guess Neko didn't run fast enough for him ;)
09:35:57  <Rubidium> heh, Neko only needed a 5 MHz 8086 CPU... if that doesn't run fast on his Celeron there's something seriously wrong with his install
09:35:58  <dihedral> HIHI
09:36:45  <dihedral> i like Terkhen patch pack approach :-)
09:36:55  <Noldo> me too
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09:37:23  <[Neko> >: (
09:37:37  <Noldo> you got to be kidding
09:37:42  <[Neko> What?
09:38:02  <dihedral> HAHA
09:38:13  <[Neko> ...
09:39:42  <dihedral> the joy can continue
09:39:59  <[Neko> Common, you better not mean me
09:40:00  <fonsinchen> His computer is flipping bits because it has been overclocked too much. That was supposed to mean: "I'm really peaceful now. I see you're right with the overclocking. I love you all".
09:40:20  <dihedral> hehe
09:40:32  <[Neko> I overclock because I also play PS2 on here
09:40:42  <dihedral> [Neko, you might wanna hide a bit better :-P
09:40:48  <[Neko> I can't do that too well with a 2.7GHz CPU
09:40:50  * Rubidium goes sitting on the floor to prevent breaking bones
09:41:06  <dihedral> joining with a different nick just because 'neckomaster' got banned... i dont know if that usually goes down very well
09:41:33  <[Neko> Why do you have to be such a mean person
09:41:38  <[Neko> your not very nice
09:41:39  <dihedral> GHz is not the only thing that matters you know
09:41:39  <Rubidium> how can one play playstation 2? It's like playing XBox
09:41:51  <dihedral> :-D
09:41:53  <[Neko> what do you mean?
09:41:57  <dihedral> Rubidium, it's like tennis
09:42:06  <dihedral> or better: squash
09:42:11  <dihedral> you bash it against the wall
09:42:27  <[Neko> I was playing Disgaea 2 the other day with out very many problems
09:42:37  <[Neko> just had to let my CPU cool every half hour
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09:43:11  <Rubidium> you shouldn't use abbreviations that are unknown to any of us or when looking for them result in multiple plausible hits
09:43:42  <[Neko> What?
09:44:14  <Rubidium> e.g. searching for PS2 only gives me games from the late 1980s or 2000; if a 2.7 GHz processor has problems with that you're doing something seriously wrong
09:44:54  <[Neko> Um, the PS2 was from the late 90's
09:45:06  <Noldo> PS/2
09:45:21  <[Neko> Its been proven that to Emulate a system, the computer must be at least 10 time more powerful
09:45:27  <[Neko> plus give time
09:45:59  <[Neko> you need at least a 3GHz Dual core to Emulate the PS2 at playable speed
09:46:01  <Rubidium> Phantasy Star II => 1989, Pokemon stadium 2 => 2000, Power Stone 2 => 2000
09:46:05  <dihedral> [Neko, you are aware of the fact that these people develop OpenTTD for multiple platforms, and are also quite familiar with emulating
09:46:26  <[Neko> No, but now that you mention it
09:46:33  <dihedral> you are in the
09:46:35  <dihedral> #openttd
09:46:37  <dihedral> channel
09:46:42  <[Neko> Ok, chill
09:46:43  <Rubidium> YOU are *very* unclear
09:46:53  <[Neko> >_>
09:47:43  <[Neko> Who is unclear?
09:47:45  <[Neko> Me?
09:47:59  <dihedral> hihi
09:48:05  * dihedral grabs some popcorn
09:48:24  <[Neko> would you stop that!
09:48:29  <[Neko> Its not funny
09:48:48  <dihedral> sure it is :-P
09:48:50  <fonsinchen> Oh, popcorn can be very funny.
09:48:56  <dihedral> it's funny to everybody else :-D
09:49:04  <dihedral> just not to the popcorn
09:49:06  <[Neko> Ok maybe the food, but Dihedral is not funny
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09:49:18  <[Neko> YOU ARE NOT FUNNY
09:49:29  <dihedral> hmmm.... sometimes i can be :-)
09:49:36  <dihedral> depends on the point of view and the humor
09:49:39  <fonsinchen> Well, OK, I have to admin [Neko is more funny than dihedral ATM.
09:50:17  <[Neko> I hate people like you, I do nothing wrong and you all make me look like the fool
09:50:29  <dihedral> you got something wrong there :-P
09:50:38  <[Neko> What
09:50:38  <Rubidium> nevertheless, wouldn't playing PS2 games on a PS2 be, uhm, ... cheaper when done on an actual PS2?
09:50:47  <[Neko> I do have a ps2
09:50:51  <[Neko> just not the game
09:50:59  <dihedral> see - exactly that
09:51:01  <dihedral> you start it :-D
09:51:06  <valhallasw> so, you are playing illegal games!
09:51:15  <[Neko> Though Ill get Digaea 2 when it come out on PSP
09:51:28  <[Neko> Yes, because no one sells it around here
09:51:39  <dihedral> and you dont emulate that psp?
09:51:51  <[Neko> psp emulation is dead
09:51:52  <dihedral> oh - i forgot - you need 10 x more power to emulate than the psp actually has
09:51:55  <[Neko> I have a PSP
09:52:08  <[Neko> I took it apart earlier to clean it out
09:52:19  <fonsinchen> And did you overclock it?
09:52:25  <dihedral> i was about to ask the same :-D
09:52:38  <[Neko> Sony released a update that overclocks it
09:52:40  <TinoDidriksen> It's like a happy little yapping dog wanting attention...
09:52:43  <dihedral> probably mounted a big fat cooling unit to the rear :-D
09:52:52  <[Neko> You no funny
09:52:58  <[Neko> and thats not possible
09:53:09  <Rubidium> hmm, "
09:53:10  <[Neko> the PSPs CPU can only do a max of 333MHz
09:53:23  <fonsinchen> It's only called "PS" afterwards.
09:53:42  <Rubidium> hmm, "Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories" for 5,65 Canadian dollars in Ontario, which is arguably 'close' to Toronto
09:53:55  <[Neko> um, I live in Oshawa
09:54:15  <valhallasw> [Neko: why can it only do a max of 333MHz? Just add some fans.
09:54:24  <[Neko> Thats the Max
09:54:39  <[Neko> the Absulte max that sony made it
09:54:46  <valhallasw> limited by what, exactly?
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09:54:53  <[Neko> I dont know
09:55:05  <[Neko> Probably the hardware
09:55:08  <valhallasw> just add your own crystal >:)
09:55:20  <Rubidium> oh, I forgot to mention the few canadian dollars for shipping
09:55:27  <[Neko> Cant, the PSP wouldnt like it unless you can program hardware
09:55:42  <[Neko> Look, i do have any money right now
09:55:53  <fonsinchen> give it to me!
09:56:04  <[Neko> I ment I dont
09:56:05  <Rubidium> donate it to openttd!
09:56:08  <[Neko> damn typos
09:56:19  <[Neko> As if, not with you programing for it
09:56:34  <Rubidium> buying a new computer for hundreds of dollars to play a game of 15 dollar ;)
09:56:37  <fonsinchen> I can also dance.
09:57:01  <Rubidium> sounds like governments taking the expensive way out
09:57:03  <[Neko> It only costed me 480 Canadian
09:57:19  <[Neko> and the money for my pc was saved up money
09:57:27  <petern> costed?
09:57:27  <fonsinchen> from the power bill
09:57:31  <[Neko> plus I needed a new PC anyways
09:57:32  <Rubidium> still 32 times as much as buying the game
09:57:33  <dihedral> Rubidium, you forgot that he was unable to watch youtube videos because his overclocked cpu overheated each time he tried
09:57:43  <dihedral> oh - some time why openttd could not be compiled on that box :-D
09:57:50  <[Neko> No, you cant OC'ed DELLs
09:57:56  <TinoDidriksen> Yes you can.
09:58:00  <[Neko> No you cant
09:58:04  <dihedral> you can overclock anything actually
09:58:10  <dihedral> even pda's
09:58:17  <dihedral> gps thingies
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09:58:21  <TinoDidriksen> Flash the BIOS, draw on the CPU with a conducting marker, and yeah you can.
09:58:21  <dihedral> mobile phones
09:58:27  * petern overclocks dihedral's apostrophe
09:58:33  <dihedral> :-D
09:58:33  <[Neko> DELLs made there motherboards Unable to over clock or under clock
09:58:36  <dihedral> nice one petern
09:58:51  <dihedral> who says you must keep the same motherboard?
09:58:55  <valhallasw> 480 canadian.. that's like 154,399.10 fourth zimbabwe
09:59:00  <dihedral> they cost what 50-100$
09:59:03  <TinoDidriksen> All they did was sever the clocking links. If you draw them back in, you can.
09:59:09  <[Neko> No, i built my PC
09:59:21  <Rubidium> lol... I can with common-off-the-shelf software underclock my CPU
09:59:35  <dihedral> yeah - that also
09:59:45  <[Neko> Tough I did recycle some parts that work
09:59:51  <[Neko> Like my Hard Disk
09:59:56  <dihedral> just don'''''t (<- petern what did you do?) forget to add the appropriate fan
09:59:59  <[Neko> a COMPAQ Case
10:00:10  <TinoDidriksen> And modern CPUs automatically clock down when not under load.
10:00:14  <[Neko> My DVD-Burner
10:00:34  <dihedral> TinoDidriksen, that's bad, that's really bad... you cannot play modern games that way :-D
10:00:52  <[Neko> Some people purposely underclock since they dont need the extra power
10:00:58  <[Neko> but would rather have longer life
10:01:03  <Rubidium> like me ;)
10:01:04  <TinoDidriksen> Ah, but it clocks back up when firing up a game...or playing YouTube vids.
10:01:27  <Rubidium> esp. battery life
10:01:37  <[Neko> No, in CMOS if you lower the Multiplier then that lowers the CPU Speed
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10:01:51  <[Neko> then thats the highest it will go
10:01:54  <TinoDidriksen> [Neko, you need to read about SpeedStep and related techs.
10:02:14  <[Neko> ...
10:02:17  <[Neko> Why?
10:02:18  <TinoDidriksen> CPU can change speed on the fly.
10:02:19  <Rubidium> TinoDidriksen: why? He doesn't have an Intel CPU
10:02:26  <TinoDidriksen> Hence "related techs"
10:02:50  <[Neko> I have a AMD Dual Core
10:03:05  <TinoDidriksen> AMD has Cool'n'Quiet or PowerNow
10:03:16  <[Neko> So?
10:03:23  <[Neko> whats Power Now?
10:03:32  * dihedral smiles
10:03:35  <TinoDidriksen> Dynamic CPU speed tech.
10:03:42  <valhallasw> lol, longer life. who cares if a processor dies in 20 or 50 years
10:03:43  <[Neko> And what does it do?
10:03:52  <[Neko> Some people do
10:04:01  <TinoDidriksen> Automatically slows down your CPU when not in use, and speeds back up when under load.
10:04:01  <valhallasw> power consumption /is/ interesting, though :P
10:04:10  <dihedral> http://lmgtfy.com/?Power+Now
10:04:13  <valhallasw> no, of course not [Neko, that's just stupid
10:04:18  <[Neko> I didnt see that in the manual
10:04:30  <[Neko> No Im serious
10:04:46  <TinoDidriksen> You have an AMD 64bit X2, so you have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool%27n%27Quiet
10:04:46  <dihedral> + overclocking cpu's means they will eat more electricity too
10:05:07  <[Neko> Some people that dont like spending alot of money will downclock to save money by not having to buy a new CPU for a long time
10:05:17  <dihedral> why would the manual give you details to do some decent (over|under)clocking of that device
10:05:22  <[Neko> I live In an Apartment
10:05:27  <TinoDidriksen> ...
10:05:32  <valhallasw> [Neko: CPUs don't break down in 'a few years'
10:05:35  <[Neko> I dont pay Electricity
10:05:42  <valhallasw> of course you do
10:05:43  <dihedral> lol - someone else does
10:05:45  <valhallasw> indirectly
10:05:59  <[Neko> normally CPus if under decent cooling will last around 10 years
10:06:05  <Rubidium> I could clock my 1600 MHz CPU back to 100 MHz with software alone
10:06:20  <valhallasw> [Neko: based on what, exactly? :P
10:06:27  <TinoDidriksen> Running at lower CPU power also increases CPU life, and reduces heat so the rest of the components also last longer.
10:06:32  <[Neko> Anyways, no, we just pay the Rent, 800 Bucks a month
10:06:44  <TinoDidriksen> There is no reason to disable dynamic speed scaling.
10:06:48  <valhallasw> [Neko: that's pretty much the point of 'indirectly'
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10:07:46  <petern> TinoDidriksen, yeah there is
10:08:17  <Rubidium> petern: like real time stuff?
10:08:20  <petern> yeah
10:09:11  <TinoDidriksen> That's for the OS to decide. If it can't guarantee realtime events with dynamic speeds, it can turn it off itself.
10:10:08  <dihedral> hehe - MS
10:10:09  <dihedral> :-D
10:10:15  <[Neko> Hmm...
10:10:19  <Rubidium> switching CPU speed costs quite a few CPU ticks
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10:10:44  <[Neko> You mean switching in real time (software) or CMOS
10:10:52  <Rubidium> IIRC it was somewhere in the milliseconds range
10:11:05  <petern> TinoDidriksen, you'd wish, but generally they just go by cpu load
10:11:18  <petern> so when doing audio stuff, i have it fixed
10:11:39  <petern> and indeed, doesn't matter if it's fixed low or high, you just don't want it to fluctuate
10:13:29  <[Neko> Ok, can we stop with the CPU talk?
10:14:06  <dihedral> why?
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10:14:13  <dihedral> what's wrong with cpu talk
10:14:14  <[Neko> Its getting boreing
10:14:29  <[Neko> Why not something else
10:14:33  <Rubidium> you started it
10:14:37  <petern> of course it is, it's moved on to topics you don't know anything about
10:14:50  <petern> (although it started that way too, heh)
10:14:55  <[Neko> You make it seam like I know nothing about
10:15:02  <[Neko> it
10:15:02  <petern> well...
10:15:16  <[Neko> I do read up on this stuff
10:15:23  <[Neko> Books , Internet
10:15:26  <dihedral> <petern> (although it started that way too, heh) <- :-D
10:15:28  <TinoDidriksen> I've never noticed any gaps or chops when switching speed in the middle of stream processing, so must be a very low delay.
10:15:35  <Rubidium> ... don't pretend to know everything if you don't know everything
10:15:49  <[Neko> I dont know everything
10:16:00  <dihedral> we know :-D
10:16:14  <[Neko> I never said I knew eveything
10:16:17  <petern> TinoDidriksen, it's just another chance of an underrun/overrun, so it helps to avoid it
10:16:35  <TinoDidriksen> True enough
10:16:50  <petern> high latency with large buffers won't be affected
10:16:52  <[Neko> Also, I only try to state stuff that I've read about or herd
10:17:11  <[Neko> My Programming teacher at school actually knows alot
10:19:02  <Rubidium> 'knowing a lot' is very relative
10:19:06  <dihedral> aye
10:19:10  * dihedral smirks
10:19:22  <[Neko> What do you mean by that?
10:19:29  <dihedral> i had teachers - to some they 'knew a lot'
10:19:43  <dihedral> i thought of them to be totally unhelpful
10:19:48  <[Neko> No, this one really does no alot
10:19:50  <Rubidium> I know Cobol, but I don't know how to write programs in Cobol
10:19:54  <[Neko> Know*
10:20:33  * petern stills needs to get a decent soundcard
10:20:37  <[Neko> Hes basically grown up with computers
10:20:58  <[Neko> If your using a intergrated Sounf card, then its crap
10:21:07  <petern> ...
10:21:11  <dihedral> :-D
10:21:14  <petern> hence i need to get a decent soundcard...
10:21:16  <Rubidium> yet another unfounded statement
10:21:24  <petern> (although intel hda is very good)
10:21:26  <dihedral> i am totally loving this
10:21:33  <[Neko> I probably should get a better sound card but I dont do Audio stuff
10:21:37  <petern> the old onboard ac'97 stuff was not
10:21:39  <[Neko> only games and Music
10:21:55  <[Neko> well, that stuff is at least good
10:22:06  <[Neko> My Friend had a PC with one of those
10:22:12  <[Neko> but it was weird
10:22:24  <[Neko> one notch up and it was too loud
10:22:32  <[Neko> like the Max on a IPOD
10:23:21  <petern> shame i can't afford RME :s
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10:23:41  <petern> (don't need it mind you)
10:23:42  <[Neko> RME?
10:23:47  <petern> RME, yes
10:23:54  <[Neko> What is that?
10:23:55  *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
10:24:05  <petern> manufacturer of audio interfaces
10:24:10  <[Neko> ahh
10:24:21  <dihedral> lmgtfy.com/?RME
10:24:50  <[Neko> What exactly do you need from them
10:24:51  <Rubidium> ^ example of an abbreviation that directly leads to only one plausible result
10:24:52  <dihedral> ?q=RME
10:25:29  <[Neko> I typed in RME and the first link was to a site with Audio Equipment
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10:29:23  <[Neko> Hmm...silence
10:30:03  <Rubidium> petern: but they're only from like 100 pounds excluding VAT
10:32:06  <petern> not... quite...
10:32:35  <[Neko> 100 Pounds Money? Or 100 British Pounds?
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10:33:14  <Eddi|zuHause> imperial or metric pounds?
10:33:23  <[Neko> oops, damn
10:33:39  <[Neko> I said pretty much the same thing twice
10:33:56  <[Neko> 100 Lbs or 100 British Pounds
10:34:06  <[Neko> and theres no such thing as a metric Pound
10:34:11  <[Neko> only Kilograms
10:34:11  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there is
10:34:22  <Eddi|zuHause> 1 metric pound = 500g
10:34:30  <Rubidium> oh, the Sterling Pound lost quite a bit of value compared to the Euro
10:34:38  <Eddi|zuHause> a value commonly used in germany
10:34:40  <z-MaTRiX> hello
10:34:53  <[Neko> The pound or pound-mass (abbreviation: lb, lbm, or sometimes in the United States: #) is a unit of mass used in the imperial, United States customary
10:35:01  <Rubidium> a RME AO4S-192 is only 134 euros excl. VAT
10:35:09  <petern> yeah
10:35:13  <[Neko> Hmm, thats still pretty expensive
10:35:19  <petern> but you try using that on its own :)
10:35:20  * z-MaTRiX soldering aluminium bond wires again in an automobile motor controller
10:35:42  <Eddi|zuHause> "excl. VAT" <- is such a price tag even allowed in the EU?
10:35:53  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yes
10:35:56  <dihedral> sure is
10:36:19  <dihedral> just the same as "zuz├╝glich MwSt"
10:36:21  <Eddi|zuHause> almost all prices i ever see are inclusive...
10:36:26  <[Neko> heh
10:36:31  <Eddi|zuHause> except for houses and stuff...
10:36:52  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: true, that happens in shops quite a lot, but when you're in the world of companies almost always stuff is excluding VAT
10:36:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure there are laws that regulate that
10:37:12  <Eddi|zuHause> at least in germany
10:37:13  <petern> most places just list both prices
10:37:34  <petern> Rubidium, add on an HDSP 9632 and then you're talking
10:37:37  <Rubidium> but yes, excl. VAT prices are annoying, e.g. hamburgers for 1 US dollar excl. vat
10:37:37  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise we would have a system like in the USA, where pretty much all prices are given exclusive tax
10:37:56  <Eddi|zuHause> and the tax may vary between cities
10:38:02  <[Neko> Ouch
10:38:15  <Rubidium> petern: so 'only' 419 euros extra
10:38:15  <[Neko> whats the current Tax rate over there?
10:38:19  <petern> :)
10:38:21  <[Neko> OUCH!
10:38:33  <petern> Rubidium, so i think i'll end up with an m-audio...
10:39:07  <Eddi|zuHause> how should i know what taxes are like in the USA?
10:39:32  <Rubidium> [Neko: between 0 and 13% state VAT and sometimes also a local VAT
10:40:00  <[Neko> the Tax Rate here is 13%
10:40:05  <[Neko> all across Canada
10:40:18  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, even in germany a lot of stuff is excluding
10:40:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe we have 19%
10:40:30  <dihedral> get quotes from TelemaxX
10:40:31  <Eddi|zuHause> and 7% for food
10:40:32  <dihedral> e.g.
10:40:37  <dihedral> yes
10:41:54  <Rubidium> 19% (luxuary goods), 6% (for non-luxary foods) or 0% (medical/education)
10:42:09  <Eddi|zuHause> [Neko: about "metric" pound: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_(mass)#German_Pfund
10:42:51  <Rubidium> now for the real funny stuff: rabbit food is 6% (rabbits are eaten by humans), cavia food is 19% (they're not eaten)
10:43:07  <petern> a metric pound is greater than an imperial pound, but a metric pint is less than an imperial pint. pom te pom
10:43:10  <Eddi|zuHause> basically, as with all german measurements, it was a horrible mess, because every state had its own definition of them
10:43:17  <valhallasw> afaik excl VAT is not allowed for retail prices in the EU
10:43:27  <valhallasw> just for prices aimed at resellers
10:44:00  <valhallasw> at least, it's that way in NL, and I thought that was an EU-based rule
10:44:34  <Eddi|zuHause> so in the process of the german unification (in 1871), germany adopted the SI units
10:46:09  <[Neko> Hmm
10:50:53  <planetmaker> valhallasw, it is.
10:51:03  <planetmaker> an EU-wide rule afaik
10:55:41  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... rumors about terminator being continued...
10:55:58  <[Neko> yeah
10:56:01  <valhallasw> 'I thought Terminator was Terminated'
10:56:04  <[Neko> Ive herd about it here
10:56:06  <[Neko> lol
10:56:08  <petern> heard
10:56:24  <[Neko> Ok, anyways they had it in the paper a few weeks ago
10:56:36  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe he meant "herded"? ;)
10:56:54  <Rubidium> hasn't the terminator been terminated in basically all movies?
10:57:38  <[Neko> yeah
10:58:54  <[Neko> and each movie he came back crappier
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11:00:32  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why the series was a refreshing change for the entire franchise
11:01:27  <Eddi|zuHause> PS: did i ever mentioned that i DOWNclocked my cpu?
11:01:34  <Eddi|zuHause> -ed
11:05:34  <[Neko> um, I want to compile a patch, could somebody link me to somewhere it tells me how to do it?
11:05:50  <Rubidium> tt-forums.net
11:05:59  <Rubidium> and wiki.openttd.org
11:07:12  <[Neko> where? i found nothing
11:07:38  <Rubidium> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=21678
11:07:50  <Eddi|zuHause> at wiki you find how to compile without a patch
11:08:02  <Eddi|zuHause> and in the forums you find how to apply a patch
11:09:19  <[Neko> yeah, i want how to apply a patch
11:09:19  <Rubidium> http://wiki.openttd.org/Coding_Tools <- you just need to know which one you're using
11:09:35  <Rubidium> [Neko: then FRACKING click on the link I gave you
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11:10:04  <Yexo> [Neko: and please compile without a patch first, then if it fails with a patch you know it's the patch and not your setup
11:10:46  <[Neko> i did
11:11:02  <[Neko> I have Visual Studio 2008
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11:23:47  <[Neko> wow, I tried the instructions for patching and it didn't work
11:23:50  <[Neko> at all
11:24:53  <Yexo> you got a message "it didn't work"? That'd be the first time I see patch giving that as an error message
11:25:58  <[Neko> No
11:26:06  <[Neko> I used TortiseSVN
11:26:16  <[Neko> and it wasn't able to patch
11:26:34  <[Neko> The instructions for using it confuse me
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11:29:04  <Eddi|zuHause> tortoise merge doesn't understand all patch formats
11:29:28  <Eddi|zuHause> get a real "patch.exe", e.g. from mingw
11:31:32  <[Neko> Huh>
11:31:34  <[Neko> ??
11:33:31  <Eddi|zuHause> tortoise only understands patches that were made with tortoise. hardly anybody who makes patches uses tortoise
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11:35:01  <[Neko> Ok, so whats Patch.exe?
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11:36:28  <Yexo> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=patch.exe second link
11:37:19  <[Neko> um, all it did was show a bunch of links what patch.exe in your proccess list is
11:37:28  <[Neko> not a link to a download
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11:41:15  <[Neko> Ok, i found it
11:41:16  <[Neko> but
11:41:19  <[Neko> it did nothign
11:41:31  <[Neko> Only opened a command line window
11:41:34  <[Neko> and then nothing
11:42:58  <Yexo> that's becuase it's not a gui tool, you have to start it from a command line window
11:43:51  <[Neko> wouldn't make a differnce, when it opened the command line, it stayed open and then nothing
11:44:35  <Yexo> if you had read http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=21678 you would have known how to use patch.exe
11:44:49  <Yexo> and it does make a difference, unless you want to type in the complete patch yourself
11:45:08  <[Neko> what does it do anyways? patch sorce code or the exe?
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11:45:15  <Yexo> source code
11:45:22  <[Neko> TT_TT
11:45:42  <[Neko> is that the only way
11:45:58  <Yexo> yes
11:46:12  <Yexo> after patching the source code you compile again to get a modified binary
11:46:18  <[Neko> ungh
11:47:00  <[Neko> then how do I compile that then
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11:47:42  <planetmaker> I thought you compiled the source code already successfully?
11:48:03  <Yexo> <Yexo> [Neko: and please compile without a patch first, then if it fails with a patch you know it's the patch and not your setup
11:48:03  <Yexo> <[Neko> i did
11:48:04  <[Neko> No
11:48:10  <planetmaker> liar!
11:48:15  <[Neko> As if I compiled it
11:48:41  <[Neko> I dont know how to compile code
11:48:53  <planetmaker> the go back to reading
11:48:56  <planetmaker> *then
11:49:27  <planetmaker> *plonck*
11:50:25  <Rubidium> really... do not say you have done something when you haven't done it...
11:50:50  <[Neko> I never said I did
11:52:59  <Yexo> <Yexo> [Neko: and please compile without a patch first, then if it fails with a patch you know it's the patch and not your setup
11:52:59  <Yexo> <[Neko> i did
11:52:59  <Yexo> <[Neko> I have Visual Studio 2008
11:53:07  <Yexo> you clearly did say that
11:53:52  <[Neko> Now you making me angery and confused
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11:56:49  <planetmaker> the other way around would mirror truth way better. I guess you lost quite a bit of credibility. Not only with me.
11:57:25  <planetmaker> And being angry at people when they point out YOUR faults - that's definitely the way to go and get good help :P
11:57:37  <planetmaker> (along with ignoring their previous advice)
12:03:18  * Chruker lulz at rage quitting
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12:09:23  <planetmaker> hehe, yes
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12:24:04  <Eddi|zuHause> well, that was about what i expected when he started to talk about compiling :p
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12:27:54  <dihedral> <[Neko> Now you making me angery and confused <- then learn to control your temper
12:28:08  <Yexo> dihedral: he's already left
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12:51:08  * petern grumbles at lying descriptions
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13:04:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16584 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp:
13:04:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2965]: sometimes SETX/SETXY would lead to unexpected results for NewGRF texts.
13:04:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Note: This readds support for centering strings with SETX, however the text part of the string will not be in the exact center, as the SETX offsets that.
13:04:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Note: All means of aligning vehicle names behind wide sprites (SETX or lots of
13:04:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: spaces) in the buy menu will cause the vehicle names to be misaligned in other
13:04:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: places, like the new vehicle news message, exclusive use of vehicle message,
13:04:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: detailed vehicle information or autoreplace.
13:08:04  <planetmaker> Rubidium, I understand, that a string now like "        Engine name" will fail in some places, right?
13:08:10  <planetmaker> Which places actually?
13:08:34  <planetmaker> (speaking of newgrfs and strings in e.g. the purchase menu)
13:08:37  <Rubidium> everywhere where nars failed in the image of FS#2965
13:09:31  <Rubidium> i.e. in http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2965/getfile/4372/nars2_bug.png where the string is blue it will be misaligned (lots of preceding whitespace)
13:09:49  <planetmaker> I see nars only failing in the news window. Is that right?
13:10:00  <petern> and blue in places...
13:10:03  <Rubidium> where the string is left aligned instead of centered it will be somewhat centered, but not completely (the whitespace counts in the width)
13:10:15  <planetmaker> ok.
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13:10:38  <Rubidium> but you can already see that in 2cc
13:10:49  <planetmaker> The recommended method is now to replace the white space by what? Is that documented?
13:10:57  <planetmaker> Rubidium, yes, that's what I'm asking for :)
13:11:01  <petern> ideally you wouldn't do that stupid thing in the first place
13:11:13  <petern> there is no reason to make the images overlap in the first place
13:11:19  <Rubidium> planetmaker: don't use anything to align stuff at all
13:11:24  <petern> and you should give me lots of beers in the first place
13:11:45  <planetmaker> Rubidium, ok, no alignment at all?
13:11:58  <planetmaker> So, the text will all start immediately after the sprite(s)?
13:12:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r16585 /trunk/ (9 files in 5 dirs): -Add [NoAI]: AIBuoyList to get a list of all buoys
13:12:55  <Rubidium> planetmaker: the problem is that 'you' are using sprites that are way too wide
13:13:14  <Rubidium> next to that problem is lots of NewGRFs using SETX for other things than just aligning in the vehicle buy menu
13:13:32  <Rubidium> as a result we cannot just scrub the SETX stuff from NewGRFs
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13:14:13  <petern> we can strip it (and space prefixes) from vehicle strings
13:14:15  <Rubidium> as a result we cannot 'simply' take the width of the widest engine and start drawing the text from there
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13:15:03  <Rubidium> petern: and what if it uses SETX somewhere in the begin and somewhere in the middle of the string? Are you going to update those SETXs too?
13:15:35  <petern> in the middle of a vehicle name string? unlikely, but just strip all of them
13:17:54  <Rubidium> petern: if I read Oz's comment correctly they're using that
13:18:24  <petern> not in the vehicle name
13:18:46  <petern> well, setx in the vehicle name maybe, but that can be ignored
13:21:22  <Rubidium> {SETX 20}Fast train{SETX 70}Diesel
13:21:28  <Rubidium> {SETX 20}Faster train{SETX 70}Steam
13:21:48  <Rubidium> ^ that doesn't look that outrageous
13:22:37  <petern> you could just scale it
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13:23:14  <Rubidium> and if you start stripping those Oz will get into his 'you OpenTTD devs are stupid' mode
13:23:34  <Rubidium> and all the related fireworks
13:23:38  <petern> never bothered us before ;)
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13:23:57  <Noldo> Who is Oz?
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13:24:50  <Belugas> hello
13:25:03  <Rubidium> petern: "The Canadian Trains Set v0.3 is not supported in OpenTTD (any version). So. I may just like to ask you to pick up your meagre belongings and head for the exits. If you are new to Canada, then you may, on the way out, ask one of our door attendants for a copy of GRFCrawler. This excellent publication will give you directions to our previous, now fully outdated, version of CanSet v0.2"
13:25:24  <Belugas> [09:27] <Noldo> Who is Oz?  <--- No One Kn"OZ"
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13:25:54  <Rubidium> not to mention all the ranting that we didn't implement feature requests over night
13:26:33  <glx> silly feature request for most of them
13:27:09  <glx> <@Rubidium> {SETX 20}Faster train{SETX 70}Steam <-- increase font size and it will fail :)
13:27:17  <Rubidium> glx: no kidding...
13:27:41  <Rubidium> but Oz's trainset will come with a custom font, so that doesn't happen (tm)
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13:31:05  <petern> heh
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13:37:11  <Belugas> what's that about Canset?  they got a new one out, finally?
13:37:40  <planetmaker> Rubidium, obviously we cannot do much about too wide sprites (or at least it'd be sad to scrub the additional flag and traction type sprites)
13:38:12  <planetmaker> but I guess I'll have to see what it looks in trunk now without explicit offsets or white spaces
13:39:35  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: there is _one_ alternative
13:40:18  <Rubidium> planetmaker: the buy menu will look very bad, the rest will look okay
13:40:38  <DJNekkid> <engine-picture> Name            <flag> <icon>
13:41:01  <planetmaker> hm... DJNekkid, Rubidium: can the latter (flag, icon) be right aligned
13:41:04  <Rubidium> DJNekkid: what with a bigger font?
13:41:37  <DJNekkid> well, the thought here were to have it, lets say, 150px appart
13:41:52  <DJNekkid> so the flags and traction icons will be at a vertical line to the right
13:42:11  <planetmaker> Rubidium, is there the possibility to specify different strings for purchase menu and the other occasions?
13:42:15  <DJNekkid> that were actually my intial idea at one stage
13:43:15  <Rubidium> the real solution is getting rid of SETX, but that breaks most NewGRFs in either TTDP or OTTD, unless TTDP implements it in the same way we do
13:43:38  <planetmaker> has DaleStan an opinion on this?
13:44:56  <petern> unlikely, it works in ttdpatch just fine
13:45:43  <Rubidium> petern: also the alignment in the news message etc?
13:46:34  <petern> dunno
13:47:43  <DJNekkid> http://redmine.ammler.ch/attachments/download/186/example.PNG
13:48:56  <DJNekkid> quick afk, buying a soda at this ferry
13:52:16  <planetmaker> DJNekkid, thanks and looks good. And now take a really big font :)
13:52:48  <petern> that totally WILL NOT work with variable size fonts
13:53:27  <planetmaker> I guess so. Except ... can we define a max width for a font (rest being truncated)?
13:53:43  <petern> no
13:53:48  <petern> the window is resizable anyway
13:53:50  <planetmaker> hm... ok
13:53:54  <petern> so those icons will be in the middle of the window
13:54:15  <planetmaker> right
13:54:18  <petern> fixing the width defeats the point of having variable size fonts
13:54:34  <planetmaker> well, aligning them rtl would solve it :)
13:54:51  <petern> the icons?
13:55:07  <petern> it's just one image, as part of the vehicle
13:55:18  <DJNekkid> it certainly is
13:55:52  <DJNekkid> hence the extra spaced before the actual name
13:56:07  <DJNekkid> *spaces
13:56:08  <planetmaker> DJNekkid, we could - of course - define / create separate sprites for the depot view, which include the flag and traction type.
13:56:26  <DJNekkid> that is what we already have ...
13:56:28  <planetmaker> but... it would mean doubling a lot of pcx.
13:56:34  <planetmaker> oh :P
13:56:55  <DJNekkid> have a look at a random .pcx in the repo .9
13:57:04  <planetmaker> he...
13:57:42  <DJNekkid> the typical MU, from the top there are 5 lines, Engine front, Engine end, pax car, mail car, P-list sprite
13:58:07  <DJNekkid> a few expections, but that is baicly the norm
13:58:09  <planetmaker> well, yes. The plist sprite includes flag and traction icon?
13:58:14  <DJNekkid> aye
13:58:18  <planetmaker> oh, ok :)
13:58:45  <DJNekkid> total 87px wide
13:58:45  <DJNekkid> iirc
13:59:07  <petern> hmm
13:59:16  <petern> of course, we could just crop the sprites...
14:00:02  <Rubidium> TTDPatch has the same alignment 'issues' as OpenTTD for SETX used in vehicle names when centering them for news messages, vehicle preview and when aligning them after the sprite in the vehicle detail window (second tab)
14:00:41  <petern> arrr
14:00:51  <petern> shows how well these newgrf authors test their stuff ;p
14:00:54  <planetmaker> petern, that'd be evil, to crop the sprites :)
14:01:13  <DJNekkid> Rubidium: do you remember the "normal" p-list sprite width?
14:01:14  <DJNekkid> 48px?
14:01:17  <DJNekkid> (2*28)
14:01:46  <petern> your maths is out
14:01:50  <planetmaker> rather have the text start after the sprite; that size ... it certainly can be obtained *somehow*. No idea about that piece of code, though
14:02:03  <DJNekkid> yes ... ofcourse
14:02:03  <DJNekkid> 56 that would be
14:03:04  <DJNekkid> yes ... 56
14:03:10  <DJNekkid> plus 2px of "blank" before the text
14:03:24  <Rubidium> planetmaker: the problem is... that breaks old NewGRFs that still use lots of spaces/SETX
14:03:56  <Rubidium> and makes your NewGRF (visually) incompatible with previous versions
14:06:38  <DJNekkid> http://redmine.ammler.ch/attachments/download/187/sh125-new.png
14:06:43  <DJNekkid> dont look _too_ bad
14:07:19  <DJNekkid> that is 25px of engine, 1 blank px, flag, 1 blank px, icon, 1blank px, and then the text at its normal space
14:08:29  <DJNekkid> tho, the ... kinda ugly ... option is to include the vehicle name in the actual P-list sprite...
14:09:06  <petern> i never saw the need of those icons tbh
14:09:14  <planetmaker> Rubidium, visual incompatibility with previous version... well. That doesn't hurt too much IMO
14:09:41  <planetmaker> petern, there's no need. But it's IMO a nice graphical feature :)
14:09:45  <DJNekkid> petern: no _need_ but we found it as eyecandy ...
14:10:00  <planetmaker> and the traction type is indeed a nice info given this way. Better IMO than textual indication.
14:10:09  <Rubidium> have to answer "it overflows me sprites" bug reports for 3/4 of a year doesn't hurt?
14:10:43  <Rubidium> and having to answer why old newgrfs have such a massive whitespace whereas that doesn't happen in TTDP
14:10:59  <planetmaker> he... well, yes. But 2cc doesn't work with TTDP anyway :)
14:11:08  <DJNekkid> ^^
14:11:25  <planetmaker> though we think of releasing a crippled TTDP version ;)
14:11:38  <Rubidium> then in case TTDP with 0.7 of OpenTTD
14:11:50  <planetmaker> which needs heavy modification of the build system, though
14:12:02  <planetmaker> yeah...
14:12:28  <DJNekkid> Rubidium: include the traction type to the game by default? :p
14:12:43  <planetmaker> right. We need therefor something which accomodates both. Old style newgrfs and the new system.
14:12:54  <planetmaker> hehe @ DJNekkid :)
14:12:59  <andythenorth> bleargh...relying on absolute text offsets for graphical effects (shakes head)
14:13:30  <planetmaker> DJNekkid, now, that might indeed be possible. Do we have a maglev sprite?
14:13:40  <DJNekkid> yes we do
14:13:43  <planetmaker> But then... it will collide with p3tern's rail types, I guess :)
14:13:48  <Rubidium> DJNekkid: it's always related to transforming multiple things to multiple other things
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14:14:30  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: we have steam, diesel, electric, metro and maglev
14:14:39  <DJNekkid> altho, what else is needed... 3rd rail and monorail ?
14:14:58  <DJNekkid> the electric spark can probably be redone, and a 3rd rail and monorail added
14:14:58  <Rubidium> DJNekkid: thought
14:14:59  <planetmaker> well, yes.
14:15:08  <Rubidium> as per 'Taken'
14:15:24  <planetmaker> hu @ Rubidium ?
14:15:28  <DJNekkid> i didnt undertand what u ment there?
14:15:35  <DJNekkid> *stand
14:16:12  <Rubidium> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0289830/ <- thought powered craft
14:16:45  <DJNekkid> lol
14:16:54  <DJNekkid> well ... we currently arent totally there yet?
14:17:01  <DJNekkid> but a "thought bubble" would suffice?
14:17:16  <DJNekkid> :p
14:17:47  <Rubidium> probably
14:18:10  <Rubidium> though Neo's (Matrix) mode of transportation would be interesting too
14:20:10  <DJNekkid> the day you guys introduce "electrostatic" or even "via cellphone" transport modes to OTTD we probably could make thoose sprites, but either are you mocking me, or getting totally off topic ... or both
14:31:16  <planetmaker> Rubidium, especially for compatible rail types a visual distinction of the engines is really helpful. E.g. if you wanna buy an engine in you (electric) depot which should also be able to drive on the non-electrified side lines.
14:31:31  <planetmaker> *your
14:32:36  <Rubidium> I don't need it; by now the SH30, SH40, TIM and Asiastar are still electrical; the rest is steam or diesel
14:32:42  <Rubidium> and there's not much that's going to change that
14:33:31  <planetmaker> Rubidium, well, yes, that's default vehicles. But playing with newgrf, especially different ones, it's far from obvious right now.
14:33:52  <planetmaker> And a newbie won't know that either. Thus resulting in "why doesn't it work" questions.
14:34:55  <Rubidium> newbies have way more problems with signals
14:35:19  <Rubidium> and I have more trouble with people that don't tell the truth (e.g. Neko)
14:35:39  <andythenorth> _if_ there are more railtypes / roadtypes added it might be useful to be able to see what types a vehicle works with
14:36:01  <andythenorth> current default trains use (Diesel) (Electric) suffixes in the name string
14:36:04  <andythenorth> not scalable?
14:36:32  <andythenorth> i.e. '(electric, narrow gauge, third rail)
14:36:37  <andythenorth> kind of sucks
14:36:51  <Rubidium> you also need like 3 graphics for that
14:36:54  <andythenorth> but hey the problem's not a problem yet.  not till / if railtypes get done
14:37:18  <andythenorth> I don't think 8px / 12px icons are a great solution either
14:37:25  <andythenorth> who knows that they mean at that size
14:37:42  <andythenorth> we've solved 'what vehicles carry cargo x' differently
14:37:43  <planetmaker> andythenorth, but you know the icons from the 2cctrainset?
14:37:48  <planetmaker> I think they're very clear.
14:37:54  <andythenorth> yes I've seen them, very nice :)
14:38:06  <planetmaker> ah, ok. You were not referring to them, then :)
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15:36:09  <z-MaTRiX> (:
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16:02:30  <planetmaker> http://arxiv.org/pdf/0906.2789v1.pdf <-- math and number theory can be so amuzing :)
16:02:53  <petern> zurely not
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16:47:38  <Belugas> funny... i was looking at Richk's fireworks photographies web site
16:47:57  <Belugas> there are a lot of HOW-TO-DOs
16:47:59  <Belugas> but...
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16:48:10  <Belugas> a very small handfull are actually finished
16:48:23  <Belugas> why am i not surprised?
16:48:35  <planetmaker> he...
16:50:13  <dihedral> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=796472#p796472 <- eh?
16:50:38  <dihedral> Belugas: hehe
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17:13:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16586 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: don't store lifelength in the savegame; it can easily be calculated, it isn't used often and now changing extend_vehicle_life in game has some effect.
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17:41:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r16587 /trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs):
17:41:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-06-17 17:39:59
17:41:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 16 changed by lible (16)
17:41:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 10 changed by Lone Wolf (10)
17:41:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovenian - 27 fixed by Necrolyte (27)
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17:43:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r16588 /trunk/projects/ (4 files): -Fix [FS#2978]: set default stack size to 1MB to prevent _chstk crash (MSVC)
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18:30:26  <frosch123> omg, I was always annoyed about newgrfs including different features (like roads and trains), but adding a font to canadian set outclasses my worst dreams
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18:36:29  <dihedral> frosch123: hehe :-P
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18:44:13  <dihedral> lol
18:44:53  <dihedral> (on tv) "a realistic representation of what could have occurred" <- talking about dinosaurs :-P
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19:03:03  <petern> everyone knows god placed them there to confuse us
19:03:20  <petern> the fossils that is
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19:06:29  <dihedral> not what i meant
19:07:27  <Belugas> mmh?
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19:18:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r16589 /trunk/projects/ (4 files): -Fix (r16588): defautl stack size was set to 1KB instead 1MB
19:19:17  <Mist> haha
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19:22:04  *** mode/#openttd [+o Darkvater] by ChanServ
19:22:11  <Darkvater> he, it's been such a long time I was joining freenode :P
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19:22:27  <petern> mr vater :D
19:22:38  * Darkvater waves to all
19:22:46  <Darkvater> hi petern
19:22:59  <Darkvater> just dropped in to see how it's going?
19:23:03  <Darkvater> how is it going?
19:23:04  <Darkvater> :)
19:23:41  <petern> dunno
19:23:43  <petern> :p
19:23:55  <andythenorth> is it done yet?
19:23:56  <petern> it's just never been the same without our leader
19:24:04  <Darkvater> @seen Rubidium
19:24:04  <DorpsGek> Darkvater: Rubidium was last seen in #openttd 4 hours, 47 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <Rubidium> you also need like 3 graphics for that
19:24:05  <Prof_Frink> The leader!
19:24:10  <Darkvater> he is here ;)
19:25:09  <jonty-comp> OK, so I'm trying to start a new game on my server from a seed
19:25:11  <Darkvater> meeh, I don't even have svn installed
19:25:24  <jonty-comp> but `newgame 3418774605` isn't working
19:25:35  <jonty-comp> from the console or from rcon, it just makes the wrong map
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19:25:36  <petern> he's just a code monkey
19:25:45  <glx> jonty-comp: using quotes?
19:25:47  <jonty-comp> but it works in singleplayer
19:25:55  <jonty-comp> glx: not around the whole command, no
19:26:00  <Darkvater> petern: do not be so cruel :)
19:26:14  <Zantor> howdy all
19:26:20  <petern> he only does it cos noone else can be bothered
19:26:47  <petern> so you need to come back
19:26:57  <petern> @seen tron
19:26:57  <DorpsGek> petern: tron was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 18 weeks, 2 days, 6 hours, 3 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <Tron> gcc 2.95 is plain obsolete (even has several bugs in its C++ part). further at the very least the justifications given are extremely oversimplified.
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19:27:12  <petern> hurr
19:31:32  <glx> the bot is a liar
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19:32:01  <glx> though tron didn't talk last time he joined (if it was him)
19:32:32  <Darkvater> it might be a bit difficult to come back now
19:32:45  <Darkvater> I'm starting my second job and moving to a new place
19:32:46  <Darkvater> :)
19:35:09  <petern> hmm, i made do with one job
19:35:38  <Darkvater> some are luckier than others :)
19:38:09  <Darkvater> any feature-progress going on?
19:38:13  <Darkvater> has celestar returned yet?
19:39:51  <Darkvater> tron is hopelessly outdated. even straciatelly hasn't been updated for over a year
19:40:52  <frosch123> [21:38] <Darkvater> any feature-progress going on? <- we started selling bugfixes as features
19:41:17  <glx> I broke win32 for this nightly :)
19:41:27  <Darkvater> I'm liking this
19:42:41  <glx> and nobody complained on FS or forum
19:43:31  <andythenorth> bug fixes are features when you write nfo.  It means your code starts to work (again).
19:43:39  <andythenorth> That's a feature. thanks by the way
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20:23:40  <Rubidium> :O the return of the DV ;)
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20:27:54  <frosch123> rubidium uses some weird magic :p
20:30:40  <Rubidium> weird? me?
20:33:27  <welshdragon> http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/song-chart-memes-dietary-needs.jpg?w=504&h=452 < lol
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20:35:44  <petern> hilarious, what?
20:36:46  <welshdragon> O_o
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21:09:49  <_ln> and nobody said anything!
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21:16:42  *** Limpaar [~Limpaar@84-50-129-60-dsl.rkv.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd
21:16:59  <Limpaar> Hello everyone
21:17:05  <Markk> Hello
21:17:12  <Limpaar> does anyone knows Maarten servers owner?
21:18:19  <Rubidium> he's known as Maarten when he is here
21:18:28  <Limpaar> ok..
21:18:34  <Limpaar> !seen Maarten
21:18:47  <Limpaar> oh.. doesn't it work in here?
21:19:04  <Rubidium> what is 'it'?
21:19:09  <Rubidium> as in, which bot?
21:19:28  <Rubidium> @seen Maarten
21:19:28  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Maarten was last seen in #openttd 8 weeks, 4 days, 22 hours, 40 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <Maarten> You can allow 255 players onto one server, just not all with their own company. Running multiple servers with the same map could also be a good idea.
21:19:36  <Limpaar> oh here it is
21:19:48  <Markk> @seen markmc
21:19:48  <DorpsGek> Markk: markmc was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 17 weeks, 2 days, 12 hours, 8 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <markmc> :p
21:19:52  <Markk> :D
21:20:30  <Limpaar> I'm used to "!seen" ... that works fine on most IRC channels
21:20:47  <Markk> It's still a bot
21:20:53  <Limpaar> well .. anyway seems that Maarten have been away for long time
21:21:29  *** andythenorth [~andy@87.115.66.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:21:40  <Limpaar> so I'll have to live with blockers in the game
21:23:34  <Rubidium> you could pm him on the forum
21:24:25  <Limpaar> I'm not reguistered
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21:27:41  <Bjarni> <Limpaar> I'm not reguistered <-- that's a fixable problem ;)
21:28:38  <Limpaar> I know... but I'm too lazy
21:32:11  <Bjarni> lazy is good
21:32:19  <Bjarni> conserves energy
21:32:44  <Rubidium> lets do the lazy thing about the OSX port ;)
21:33:05  <Rubidium> oh... it doesn't work, lets be lazy and don't fix it
21:33:09  <Bjarni> like... I'm still too lazy to change the dead lightbulb in the bathroom meaning now it only uses half the amount of power to light up the room
21:33:15  <Bjarni> it's somewhat dim though ;/
21:33:47  <Rubidium> if only you would be lazy enough to NOT read qdb/bash and related stuff
21:34:09  <Bjarni> I haven't read those in ages
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21:35:13  <Bjarni> at the moment I'm way too busy with uni stuff to do fun stuff like that
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22:16:00  *** ennorie [~ennorie@task-dn.imp.gda.pl] has joined #openttd
22:16:40  <ennorie> hi everyone
22:17:03  <ennorie> ... or anyone
22:17:41  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.160.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:18:30  <Bjarni> @seen everyone
22:18:30  <DorpsGek> Bjarni: everyone was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 20 weeks, 4 days, 3 hours, 25 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: * Everyone has aids
22:18:36  <Bjarni> @seen anyone
22:18:36  <DorpsGek> Bjarni: I have not seen anyone.
22:18:49  <Prof_Frink> @seen noone
22:18:49  <DorpsGek> Prof_Frink: noone was last seen in #openttd 19 weeks, 6 days, 8 hours, 31 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <noone> actually it's a registered nick :P
22:19:10  <Bjarni> @seen everybody
22:19:10  <DorpsGek> Bjarni: I have not seen everybody.
22:19:47  <Bjarni> ennorie: now see what you started :P
22:19:54  <ennorie> ooo, must check somwhere else
22:19:59  <ennorie> :D
22:20:39  <ennorie> dungerouse invitations...
22:20:56  <ennorie> Bjarni: How do I suposed to start ?
22:21:13  <Bjarni> you asked for those nicks
22:21:36  <Bjarni> the internet is a scary place
22:21:48  <Bjarni> I'm starting to understand Engrish >_<
22:21:57  * Xaroth hands Bjarni some ritalin
22:21:58  <Bjarni> :p
22:22:02  <Xaroth> calm down dude
22:22:27  * Prof_Frink pulls Bjarni a pint of badger
22:23:31  <Bjarni> you drink badger?
22:23:54  <Prof_Frink> Yes.
22:24:05  <Prof_Frink> Although I prefer ferret.
22:24:17  <Xaroth> badger badger badger badger badger
22:24:29  <Prof_Frink> Xaroth: Yes please.
22:25:00  <Bjarni> Xaroth acts like he had too many badgers already
22:25:10  <Bjarni> maybe there aren't any left for Prof_Frink :P
22:25:11  <Xaroth> i had none
22:25:11  <ennorie> hi all ?
22:25:16  <Xaroth> but i've been listening to tool all evening
22:25:53  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: I highly recommend you to drink mink
22:25:58  <Bjarni> as much as you can handle
22:26:20  <Bjarni> not because of their quality, but I want to get rid of them :p
22:26:31  <Xaroth> lol
22:26:54  <Bjarni> seriously, they eat birds and stuff
22:27:04  <Bjarni> and they are really dangerous to the natural wildlife
22:27:38  <Bjarni> yet "animal friends" sets them free
22:28:05  <Prof_Frink> Nope, don't see a mink
22:28:17  <Bjarni> mission successful
22:28:27  <Bjarni> you already drank a lot
22:28:41  <Prof_Frink> http://www.hall-woodhouse.co.uk/beers/badgerales/index.asp
22:28:46  <Bjarni> ennorie: btw did you have something you wanted to ask about? :)
22:29:02  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: LOL
22:29:20  <Prof_Frink> Like I said. Badger.
22:29:55  <Prof_Frink> Local beer :)
22:30:13  <Bjarni> I have a local beer too
22:30:21  <Bjarni> the brewery is like 7 km away
22:30:51  <Bjarni> it's hard to get anything to be more local than that
22:31:08  <petern> home brew
22:31:19  <Bjarni> I have that too
22:31:26  <Bjarni> well... sort of
22:31:35  <Bjarni> almost
22:31:36  <Prof_Frink> Hmm, 11 miles to Blandford
22:31:51  <Bjarni> my dad is skilled at making wine
22:31:57  <Bjarni> but I don't drink
22:32:26  <Prof_Frink> 12 miles to Ringwood... fortyniner anyone?
22:33:19  <ennorie> Bjarni: Yes, i have a question to ask, but with all that bureaucracy  I could not make any step forward.
22:33:31  <Prof_Frink> and there's another brewery in the purbecks somewhere
22:33:41  <Prof_Frink> ennorie: Don't ask to ask, just ask!
22:33:47  <Bjarni> ennorie: looks like our plan worked
22:33:58  <Bjarni> :p
22:34:05  <ennorie> Prof_Frink: No,no no... can't be tah simple
22:34:14  <Bjarni> oh no
22:34:18  <Prof_Frink> ennorie: I never said you'd get an answer
22:34:35  <Prof_Frink> Not a sensible on, anyway
22:34:37  <Bjarni> please don't try to ask anybody here to go on a date
22:34:56  <Prof_Frink> Yes, that didn't go well
22:35:41  <Bjarni> some freakish guy once asked me to go on a date with him o_O
22:36:41  <Bjarni> took me a while to get rid of him since it would appear that he didn't understand the meaning of the word "no"
22:36:48  <Bjarni> or "get lost"
22:36:54  <ennorie> seriuosly, no application???
22:37:52  <Bjarni> ?
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22:40:27  <ennorie> ok, so pure question, without asking for permission, no application for that...
22:40:57  <ennorie> How are You people, Nice night, isn't it ?
22:41:07  <ennorie> and by the way,
22:41:23  <Prof_Frink> Fertiliser.
22:41:43  <Bjarni> why should this night be nice?
22:41:58  <Bjarni> it's no better than any other night
22:42:16  <Prof_Frink> I didn't even go climbing today
22:42:35  <ennorie> what is the meaning of (far to the end) in  train route plan ?
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22:42:55  <Bjarni> <ennorie> what is the meaning of (far to the end) in  train route plan ? <-- finally
22:42:58  <Bjarni> a real question
22:43:15  <Bjarni> it means where the train stops
22:43:18  <ennorie> i'm shy person
22:45:08  <ennorie> i've got two stops in plan :  goto Wlodawa [far to the end] and second goto Krakow [far to the end]
22:45:59  <Bjarni> it means what it says
22:46:12  <ennorie> So thain should pass Wlodawa ?
22:46:18  <Bjarni> it goes to the far end of Wlodawa and then the far end of Krakow
22:46:37  <Bjarni> the far end of the platform, that is
22:46:48  <Yexo> ennorie: those far end of platform only matters if your platforms are longer then your trains
22:46:50  <Bjarni> you can change it to the middle or near end if you like
22:47:09  <ennorie> ooo it's about that...
22:47:37  <ennorie> when it matters where train stops
22:47:56  <Yexo> it doesn't matter
22:47:59  <Yexo> it's just for the looks
22:48:02  <Bjarni> if you have a DMU of 2 units and the platform is 5 tiles, then it matters which end it stops in
22:48:14  <Bjarni> specially if it will turn around and leave the same way as it entered
22:48:35  <Bjarni> but usually it's just eyecandy
22:48:50  <ennorie> yes, I see it now
22:49:25  <ennorie> Is the same apply to transmitter ? eyecandy ?
22:49:42  <Bjarni> no
22:49:42  <Yexo> yes
22:49:48  <Bjarni> hehe
22:49:58  <Yexo> the transmitter also blocks some terraforming
22:50:35  <Bjarni> the transmitter is designed to prevent you from terraforming, so it does something besides being eyecandy
22:50:40  <ennorie> Yes, i remember some problems with them, and sealights
22:51:09  <Bjarni> those are called lighthouses in English
22:51:41  <Bjarni> it helps understanding what you write if you use the right word ;)
22:52:14  <ennorie> thsnk You, that was my invention :)
22:52:42  <Bjarni> your invention?
22:52:45  <ennorie> but sea+light == light+house
22:52:53  <Bjarni> you invented the lighthouse?
22:53:06  <Yexo> just the word sealight :p
22:53:40  <ennorie> no,no, no, only the word sealight :)
22:54:20  <Bjarni> http://sealites.com/ <-- is this your homepage then?
22:55:32  <ennorie> oh, you taking be doslownie leterally
22:56:10  <ennorie> I tried to sy about lighthouse and combined sea and light word
22:56:14  <ennorie> wrong gues
22:57:07  <Bjarni> it could have been worse
22:57:23  <Bjarni> you could have guessed at something and then it turned out to be a word meaning something else
22:57:27  <ennorie> I could kill someone ?
22:57:48  *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
22:57:51  <Bjarni> imagine being kicked for cursing because you make an unlucky guess :D
22:58:18  <ennorie> aaa... one, one time I was talking about cat, fury cat
22:58:36  <Bjarni> you talked about cats or pussies?
22:59:02  <Bjarni> saying stuff like "I have a fury pussy" XD
22:59:07  <ennorie> You see, that woman wasn't asking first
22:59:47  <ennorie> I was starting like You have fury pussy... (here splat)... cat
23:01:05  <Bjarni> http://www.funnycatsite.com/pictures/Cat_Sleeping_Train.jpg <--- LOL
23:01:08  <ennorie> My pronunciation is hell, also
23:01:09  <Bjarni> pussy train
23:02:09  <ennorie> remaind me my Chinchillas, always sleep like that
23:03:07  <Bjarni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tama_(cat) <-- another train cat. This one is station master
23:03:15  <Bjarni> I think it's a funny story
23:03:44  <Bjarni> I don't get why people use the train more often because of this, but ok... if it works, then it works
23:05:12  <ennorie> Have You ever been served by a fury pussy cat ?
23:05:46  <Bjarni> why should I answer such a question?
23:06:31  <ennorie> I mean like driver or so
23:07:20  <Bjarni> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Wakayama_Electric_Railway_Kuha2705Tama-200904.jpg <-- that's not fair. I want a train to be named after me too
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23:12:19  <ennorie> I must go now, so bye *
23:12:41  <ennorie> * every one that might want to by buying
23:12:49  <ennorie> bying
23:13:43  <ennorie> be bying, god language is me weakest part
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