Log for #openttd on 21st June 2009:
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01:02:41  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
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07:27:31  <Wolfsherz> how do I activate the notification when someone enters my nickname?
07:27:36  <Wolfsherz> i use mirc
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08:17:06  <HackaLittleBit> mornin
08:19:18  <Alberth> good morning
08:19:42  <HackaLittleBit> Alberth: you are the one I would like to talk to :)
08:20:07  <HackaLittleBit> fontcache.cpp
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08:20:51  <HackaLittleBit> ASCII_LETTERSTART can you not declare that one on line 19
08:22:12  <Alberth> I just read about it, yes
08:22:24  <HackaLittleBit> :)
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08:26:03  <Wolfsherz> excuse me, can someone tell me how highlighting works with mirc?
08:28:54  <Rubidium> I think someone would, but that person should be someone who knows mIRC. Given the amount of different IRC clients it's far from certain that someone using mIRC is online right now in this channel
08:28:54  <welshdragon> Wolfsherz: < like that
08:29:10  <Rubidium> on the other hand, it should be documented in mIRC's documentation
08:30:17  <Alberth> and it probably is. None the less, your chances are probably better at some mirc-specific channel or website
08:34:29  <Wolfsherz> welshdragon: that did not work. it seems to be disabled in my software. rubidium and alberth: thank you, i will have a look at the apropriate location for this.
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08:35:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16612 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r16605): ASCII_LETTERSTART should be defined unconditionally (leeus)
08:40:37  <Wolfsherz> someone minds typing my nickname?
08:40:56  <HackaLittleBit> Wolfshertz:
08:41:11  <Alberth> you can do that self as well
08:41:13  <HackaLittleBit> Wolfsherz:
08:41:32  <Wolfsherz> thank you
08:43:09  <HackaLittleBit> Breakfast, see you all :)
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08:58:05  <DeGhost> op
08:58:07  <DeGhost> i was a  bit lat
08:58:10  <DeGhost> was gonna tell him how
08:58:12  <DeGhost> HAHAHHAah
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09:32:19  <Sacro> grr, c# doesn't like 'state.Salt & 0x01 ? state.Key : 0'
09:32:55  <petern> ((state.Salt & 0x01) == 0x01) ? state.Key : 0
09:33:40  <petern> or more accurately, != 0
09:34:41  <Sacro> Yeah, that's what I have
09:35:26  <Sacro> oh hm, my other lines are wrong :(
09:35:33  <Sacro> stupid pointer crap
09:39:11  * Sacro fiddles
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09:42:26  <welshdragon> :o
09:42:31  <welshdragon> morning Sacro
09:43:09  <Sacro> oh noes *hides*
09:43:11  <Sacro> bring me nommage :D
09:45:38  <welshdragon> :/
09:45:44  <Sacro> and lolman too
09:45:49  <Sacro> bring some breakfast for us
09:45:50  <Sacro> :D
09:45:56  <welshdragon> i'm not up yet
09:46:05  <Sacro> hm :(
09:46:06  <Sacro> we are
09:46:08  <Sacro> still
09:46:25  <welshdragon> 48 hour day?
09:46:35  <Sacro> no no
09:46:58  <welshdragon> hmm :/
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09:47:17  <welshdragon> i'm quite hungry myself, but have a few jobs to do
09:47:23  <welshdragon> anyway
09:47:35  <welshdragon> we need to stop spamming #openttd
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09:47:48  <Sacro> oh yes
09:47:49  <Sacro>  :)
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10:11:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r16613 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_engine.cpp order_base.h order_cmd.cpp): -Fix [NewGRF]: some of the var action 2 80+ variables contained wrong results due to OpenTTD codechanges
10:13:09  <petern> people used them? :s
10:13:21  <Yexo> probably not :p
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10:14:06  <Yexo> I came across them reading lots of newgrf pages / openttd-code related to newgrfs
10:15:38  <KUDr> yexo, could you fix one more?
10:15:47  <Yexo> which one?
10:15:56  <KUDr> i must find it
10:16:41  <Yexo> if it's possible, sure
10:17:10  <KUDr> quare of Euclidian distance from town */
10:17:10  <KUDr> 		case
10:17:24  <KUDr> case 0x8D: return min(DistanceSquare(industry->town->xy, tile), 32767);
10:17:38  <KUDr> newgrf_industries.cpp
10:17:50  <KUDr> i have it on line 434
10:18:10  <KUDr> 65535 -> 32767
10:18:36  <Yexo> what is the problem with 65535?
10:18:41  <KUDr> it seems to overflow if industry distance from town is larger
10:18:54  <KUDr> inside grf
10:19:00  <KUDr> i dunno why
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10:19:12  <KUDr> probably it uses signed short
10:19:36  <petern> grf bug?
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10:19:59  <KUDr> i dunno who's bug it is but this fix helped
10:20:01  <Yexo> openttd uses uint32
10:20:09  <KUDr> openttd yes
10:20:25  <Yexo> I'm not commiting a random fix just because it works for you, as long as I don't understand the problem
10:20:28  <KUDr> but i dunno what it does inside grf code
10:20:40  <KUDr> heh random fix?
10:20:59  <Yexo> for me it is, since I don't know what the problem is
10:21:14  <KUDr> i hope that somebody is able to tell why it does
10:22:28  <KUDr> when distance from town is more than sqrt(32767) it behaves like when it is too close to the town
10:22:44  <Yexo> can you show some of the nfo?
10:22:50  <KUDr> for all industries that need to be build far from towns
10:23:06  <KUDr> line farmas, fruit plantations etc (ECS)
10:23:25  <KUDr> yes, when you tell me what is nfo
10:24:24  <Yexo> the 'source-code' for the newgrf
10:24:42  <KUDr> i am no ECS author
10:24:44  <KUDr> sorry
10:24:55  <KUDr> +t
10:25:26  <Yexo> then it's better to wait for frosch (or someone else with more newgrf knownledge)
10:25:26  <Sacro> 	while (len--) {
10:25:26  <Sacro> 		state->salt = ((state->salt >> 1)
10:25:26  <Sacro> 			       ^ (state->salt & 0x01 ? state->key : 0));
10:25:26  <Sacro> 		*(buf++) ^= (state->salt & 0xff);
10:25:29  <Sacro> 	}
10:25:42  <KUDr> i just played with it and whentried to build some industries far from alltowns it told me that it is too slose to town
10:25:43  <Sacro> seems to not want to work in c# :( even with copious amounts of fiddling
10:26:06  <petern> Sacro, read what i wrote
10:26:37  <KUDr> Yexo: ok, i hoped you have it
10:26:37  <petern> KUDr, yeah, but we shouldn't "fix" it until it is determined whether it is an openttd bug or a grf bugt
10:27:12  <Yexo> KUDr: actually no, I'm just learning some nfo myself
10:27:25  <KUDr> ok, ok
10:27:52  <KUDr> i wasn't here for 2 yrs and in the meantime lot of things happened here
10:28:01  <Sacro> petern: i have the comparison
10:28:06  <KUDr> including lot of newgrf
10:28:12  <petern> where?
10:28:17  <Sacro> but while (len--) and *(buf++) is  abugger
10:28:20  <petern> it's not in the block you just pasted
10:28:33  <petern> (why are you fucking with pointers in C# anyway)
10:28:44  <Sacro> 			while(len != 0)
10:28:45  <Sacro> 			{
10:28:45  <Sacro> 				state.Salt = ((state.Salt >> 1) ^ ((state.Salt & 0x01) != 0 ? state.Key : 0));
10:28:48  <Sacro> 				buf[i++] ^= (byte)(state.Salt & 0xff);
10:28:50  <Sacro> 				len--;
10:28:52  <Sacro> I'm not, that's the C++ i'm going from
10:28:55  <Sacro> 			}
10:29:04  <Sacro> the next block is the C# bit
10:29:10  <Sacro> but I'm not getting the right output :(
10:30:39  <Alberth> don't try to write optimal code and get working code at the same time.
10:30:45  <Sacro> Alberth: i'm not
10:30:59  <Alberth> (and use a pastebin plz)
10:31:04  <Sacro> this whole ++ and -- business confuses me :(
10:31:16  <petern> ++ increment
10:31:18  <petern> -- decrement
10:31:21  <petern> not hard...
10:31:25  <KUDr> Sacro: first move len-- whre it was
10:31:34  <Alberth> yes, so don't use it until you have a working converted program
10:31:34  <Yexo> then rewrite it to an if statement: if ((state.Salt & 0.01) != 0) { state.Salt = (state.Salt >> 1) ^ state.Key } else { state.Salt = state.Salt >> 1; }
10:31:50  <KUDr> otherwise you swap operations -> must have different results
10:32:23  <Sacro> hm
10:32:38  <Sacro> but I must compare len-- to something
10:32:52  <KUDr> to 0
10:33:10  <KUDr> while(len-- != 0)
10:33:12  <Sacro> but surely it'll compare it to 0, then decriment it
10:33:51  <KUDr> aha, you don't use it
10:33:55  <KUDr> right
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10:35:07  <petern> sacro, that's why --len is not the same as len--
10:35:39  <petern> the decrement is always done before the comparison
10:35:55  <Sacro> I didn't right that
10:35:57  <Sacro> *write
10:36:05  <Sacro> personally i'd not use a pre/post decrement in a loop
10:36:13  <petern> --len 'returns' the decrement
10:36:23  <Sacro> now for the *(buf++) bit :\
10:36:24  <petern> len-- 'returns' the value before the decrement
10:36:29  <Sacro> Yes, I get that
10:36:32  <petern> Sacro, that makes for() loops a bit stupid
10:36:44  <Sacro> i = i +1 :)
10:37:19  <Alberth> *buf = .... ; buf = buf + 1 ;
10:37:35  <petern> well if you want to go back to using basic...
10:37:58  <Sacro> Alberth: I don't have pointers
10:38:06  <Sacro> petern: hehe :)
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10:38:42  <petern> Sacro, yes, but if you're not understanding pre/post decrement, it helps to break it up in the original code first
10:39:05  <Sacro> Yes, true
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10:42:16  <Sacro> hmm, still not getting what I expected
10:42:17  <Sacro> grr
10:43:17  <Sacro> is what I have so far
10:44:14  <Sacro> hmm is == 0 the same as false?
10:44:34  <petern> only if key is a bool
10:45:17  <Alberth> initial state of the buf[] the same?
10:45:37  <Sacro> well is if (! state->key) the same as (state.Key == 0)
10:45:50  <Sacro> Alberth: yeah
10:45:56  <Sacro> might have to fiddle with gdb a bit more
10:46:30  <Alberth> in C++ both comparisons are the same. Don't know in C#
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10:50:57  <Sacro> thoughts?
10:54:27  <Alberth> I would start debugging. Print the sequence of bytes being computed and stored in both cases, and check why the first difference happens.
10:55:09  <Sacro> Yeah
10:55:17  <Sacro> forgot that i need to use * in gdb ><
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10:55:59  <Alberth> (maybe you can first make it even more simpler (no -- and ++, brackets around the condition of ? : ) ) Also, check post-conditions (is i correct afterwards?)
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11:06:08  <KUDr> Sacro: Salt is uint32 in both cases?
11:11:01  <Sacro> Yep
11:22:43  <Sacro> sigh
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12:35:32  <LadyHawk> hello
12:36:11  <LadyHawk> could someone please explain what the difference is between those 2 signals that reserve paths? i don't quite understand the difference from the description
12:37:00  <glx> one can be passed through from the other side, one can't
12:37:17  <LadyHawk> that's the part of it that i dont understand
12:37:49  <LadyHawk> in my saved game i'm using the one that apparently cant be passed from the back side, but the trains leave at the back side through another one of those reserve track blocks
12:38:06  <Sacro> one allows -> SIGNAL <-
12:38:16  <Sacro> the other is just -> SIGNAL ->
12:39:28  <LadyHawk> Sacro's explainign it better than the description on the signals lol
12:39:38  <LadyHawk> so which one allows the -> SIGNAL <-
12:39:43  <LadyHawk> the one with or without the sign attached to it?
12:39:50  <glx> the one without bar
12:39:57  <LadyHawk> hmmm
12:40:04  <planetmaker> I've got a makefile question: why does always produce "unknown"? And how could I get it to work?
12:40:11  <LadyHawk> that's odd then
12:40:26  <Sacro> LadyHawk: the one with the bar is -> -|signal ->
12:40:32  <LadyHawk> when a path is blocked long enough the trains turn around and do reserve a path back through the station
12:40:56  <Sacro> yeah, there is a setting for a train in rear of a PBS signal to 180
12:41:17  <petern> behind
12:41:30  <LadyHawk> trains are smart these days
12:41:49  <LadyHawk> you mess up a crossing and instead of just going somewhere, they drop dead still until you move them so they wont collide
12:41:50  <LadyHawk> lol
12:42:02  <Sacro> yup
12:42:04  <LadyHawk> something else i noticed with these signals...
12:42:13  <LadyHawk> trains seem to have to 'get used' to them?
12:42:25  <LadyHawk> first few times they get past a new setup they're 'too careful'
12:42:28  <Sacro> oh?
12:42:30  <LadyHawk> as in stopping while there's a free path
12:42:31  <Sacro> not noticed that
12:42:38  <LadyHawk> after the first few times they take more daring routes through it
12:43:03  <petern> you can believe that if you like, but it's not true :)
12:43:09  <LadyHawk> lol ok =P
12:43:31  <Rubidium> that might have to do with pathfinding that happens far far far before the junction you have just changed
12:43:38  <Alberth> planetmaker: what's OSTYPE ?
12:43:48  <LadyHawk> pathfinding
12:44:08  <Alberth> finding a path from A to B over tracks
12:44:17  <LadyHawk> yeah i've noticed trains seem to decide which path to take depending on whether or not there's a train about hmm... 5-10 tiles in front of them
12:44:29  <LadyHawk> it's interesting
12:44:38  <planetmaker> Alberth: one of the strings which are adjacent to the variable.
12:44:41  <LadyHawk> A+ on the coding job on those signals
12:44:46  <planetmaker> on my SuSE machine it's "linux"
12:44:46  <LadyHawk> glad they're back =)
12:45:08  <planetmaker> on my Mac it's "darwin8.0" and on my windows VM it's "msys" within the mingw environment.
12:45:12  <planetmaker> It's a system variable
12:47:21  <planetmaker> just check in your shell with echo $$OSTYPE and you should know... in principle
12:47:32  <planetmaker> I think it is not defined on a plain windows, though
12:47:39  <petern> echo $$OSTYPE
12:47:39  <petern> 21621OSTYPE
12:47:40  <glx> why $$ ?
12:47:58  <Rubidium> 6693OSTYPE <- got a lesser OS :(
12:48:11  <Alberth> planetmaker: echo $OSTYPE gives me "linux-gnu"
12:48:20  <glx> sh-3.1$ echo $$OSTYPE
12:48:20  <glx> 1436OSTYPE
12:48:20  <glx> sh-3.1$ echo $OSTYPE
12:48:20  <glx> msys
12:48:48  <planetmaker> glx: yes, on the shell. In my makefile it works only with two:
12:48:52  <glx> planetmaker: you failed with $$
12:49:05  <planetmaker> echo $OSTYPE
12:49:06  <petern> obviously it doesn't work...
12:49:30  <planetmaker> or echo $(OSTYPE) within makefile doesn't produce anything while echo $$OSTYPE produces that string
12:49:36  <planetmaker> But the comparison fails for me
12:50:08  <planetmaker> e.g.
12:50:10  <planetmaker> test:
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12:50:24  <planetmaker>   @echo "Host type $$OSTYPE"
12:50:26  <planetmaker> works for me
12:50:34  <planetmaker> but not a comparison :(
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12:51:12  <glx> try ifeq("$$OSTYPE","msys")
12:51:59  <Alberth> $$OSTYPE works with 'echo' because the echo cmd gets parsed by the shell again.
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12:56:13  <planetmaker> glx: I tried that. It has the same result (and the manual gives that syntax as alternative to what I posted)
12:56:35  <glx> and with only one $ ?
12:57:34  <planetmaker> same result.
12:57:46  <planetmaker> Intuitively I used one $  - and then wondered why it doesn't work.
12:58:02  <planetmaker> I usually have to use vars within a makefile like $(VARNAME)
12:59:23  <planetmaker> hm... actually the problem might be a bit different:
12:59:24  <Alberth> the reason is that OSTYPE is not an environment variable, but a magic variable BASH var
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12:59:59  <planetmaker> a makefile with just this:
13:00:03  <planetmaker> host = $OSTYPE
13:00:10  <planetmaker> test :
13:00:18  <planetmaker> 	@echo "Host: $(HOST)"
13:00:32  <planetmaker> produces a line with an empty $(HOST) var...
13:00:57  <Rubidium> OSTYPE isn't an environment variable
13:01:03  <Rubidium> as such Make doesn't know it
13:01:18  <planetmaker> hm... :S Ok, seems like I have to do it differently then.
13:01:27  <Rubidium> and $OSTYPE is a bashism
13:01:31  <petern> OSTYPE=$((echo $OSTYPE))
13:01:41  <Rubidium> i.e. it doesn't work in all shell compatible shells
13:01:49  <Rubidium> like dash
13:02:04  <petern> uname -s
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13:03:28  <Sacro> bourne compatible
13:04:23  <planetmaker> petern: thx, I'll have a look whether I get to work it that way. Looks good at first sight
13:06:05  <planetmaker> andythenorth: the meadows are very small, if only half a tile...
13:06:35  <planetmaker> especially for cows that seems like caged ;)
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13:07:12  <LadyHawk>
13:07:55  <Alberth> planetmaker:
13:08:01  <andythenorth> planetmaker: hmm maybe you're right
13:08:10  <andythenorth> I could make them bigger easily
13:08:25  <andythenorth> But really they are holding pens for milking ;)
13:08:31  <Xaroth> LadyHawk: quite.. inefficient layout o_O
13:08:47  <planetmaker> he, thanks, Alberth :)
13:08:54  <andythenorth> planetmaker: Actually, if we could plant arbitrary animated ground tiles around industries, we could do more with these farms
13:09:19  <planetmaker> hehe @ andythenorth
13:09:35  <LadyHawk> Xaroth if you have any advice feel free to point it out
13:09:37  <planetmaker> I guess till  that happens a few months will fly by :)
13:09:49  <LadyHawk> the reason i had to make a mess like that is because the trains weren't leaving the station quick enough
13:09:55  <Sacro> LadyHawk: ctrl+s for a screenshot in openttd
13:10:07  <Sacro> or erm, ctrl+prtscrn I belive for the selected window
13:10:26  <Xaroth> LadyHawk: 2x45 degree turns
13:10:34  <LadyHawk> maglev = unaffected by corners
13:10:42  * Rubidium misses the gold old days that prntscrn actually printed the screens
13:11:26  <LadyHawk> never had 90 degree turns on the other railways
13:11:33  <LadyHawk> but maglev doesn't slow down through them so why not
13:14:09  <LadyHawk> each exit has 2 exit tracks, i limited their movement on the signal block so they dont go blocking off everyone elses paths
13:15:14  <glx> <Sacro> or erm, ctrl+prtscrn I belive for the selected window <-- alt-prntscreen
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13:15:44  <Sacro> heh, close
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13:17:13  <LadyHawk>
13:17:22  <LadyHawk> alt+printscreen works =)
13:18:12  <LadyHawk> oh, how does the improved loading algorithm work btw?
13:18:23  <LadyHawk> i've had to turn it off because it wasn't loading the trains quick enough
13:18:37  <Rubidium> it FIFO loads
13:18:39  <LadyHawk> up to howmany trains does it calculate if there's enough load on the station?
13:19:09  <Sacro> LadyHawk: openttd does have an inbuilt screenshot function though :)
13:19:11  <LadyHawk> i know train 1 loads, if train 1 can get full, train 2 loads too
13:19:31  <LadyHawk> but it still isn't as 'aggressive' as all trains loading at same time
13:20:04  <LadyHawk> if i average less than 4 trains loading, the stuff on the stations only increase
13:20:11  <LadyHawk> improved loading algorithm cant keep up with it
13:20:21  <glx> there's not enough people in the station for that :)
13:20:26  <LadyHawk> lol
13:20:44  <LadyHawk> hire some more staff =P
13:21:01  <Rubidium> well, FIFO loading can never be faster than just loading whatever you get in whatever vehicle you can put it in
13:21:01  <LadyHawk> i wouldn't mind paying a fee for extra loading capacity
13:21:05  <Svish> thats a lot of farms in one spot... O.o
13:21:12  <Rubidium> it only guarantees that the first train gets loaded first
13:21:13  <LadyHawk> yeh, started with a couple, funded the rest
13:21:34  <Svish> how can you fund a farm? im only allowed to fund industries....
13:21:41  <LadyHawk> there's a setting in the options
13:21:51  <Svish> hm
13:21:53  <LadyHawk> fund raw materials same as others or something similar
13:22:10  <LadyHawk> together with build same type close to eachother enabled, and multiple allowed per town enabled
13:22:29  <LadyHawk> gives you the freedom to fund whatever you want wherever you want
13:22:31  <Svish> does it work to change that in-game?
13:22:38  <LadyHawk> not sure
13:22:39  <Yexo> yes
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13:23:46  <Svish> why does station spread slow down the game?
13:24:05  <LadyHawk> no idea
13:24:19  <LadyHawk> i have station spread set to 20
13:24:37  <Svish> hm... where is that setting? can't find it...
13:24:40  <glx> it used to slow down more than it does now
13:24:47  <LadyHawk> which one Svish?
13:24:51  <petern> we should move the warning
13:24:55  <petern> from station spread to map size
13:25:04  <Svish> the one to allow you to fund things like forests and coal mines
13:25:06  <petern> zomg my pc run slowly at 2048x2048
13:25:08  <glx> hehe
13:25:13  <Yexo> Svish: somewhere under economy
13:25:20  <LadyHawk> advanced settings -> economy -> industries
13:25:43  <Svish> Manual primary industry construction method?
13:25:45  <LadyHawk> yeah
13:25:52  <LadyHawk> set it to 'as other industries'
13:26:09  <LadyHawk> that'll let you make them
13:26:10  <LadyHawk> lol
13:26:14  <Svish> what does prospecting mean?
13:26:22  <LadyHawk> dunno
13:26:33  <glx> random industry location, and it may fail
13:26:41  <Svish> should be some help when right clicking those options...
13:27:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r16614 /trunk/src/ (54 files in 5 dirs):
13:27:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Make the airport min/max available year a property of the Airport class.
13:27:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change: rename station.always_small_airport to station.never_expire_airports to make it more future-proof
13:30:24  <LadyHawk> what are those wagon speed limits?
13:30:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r16615 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix (r16613): 0x10 != 2
13:30:40  <LadyHawk> i always turned it off because i'm not quite sure what to expect
13:30:56  <Yexo> newgrfs can set a speed limit for wagons
13:31:05  <Yexo> without any newgrfs, tha setting does nothing
13:31:08  <LadyHawk> and i see no speed limits listed in the depots
13:31:16  <LadyHawk> ahh
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13:32:58  <Xaroth> [Svish]: why does station spread slow down the game? << because the game has to calculate the coverage area when deciding where to drop stuff?
13:33:45  <Svish> aha
13:34:07  <Svish> btw, does it matter how much of for example a forest you cover?
13:34:16  <Svish> do you get half as much if you only cover half the forest?
13:34:40  <Mark> no it does not matter
13:34:46  <Mark> a single tile is enough
13:36:10  <LadyHawk> when you fund industries n stuff, you can 'force' them into a specific shape to make a nice block, if you stick a piece of railway down
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13:36:39  <LadyHawk> with all them farms i forced them into a 3x3 grid, the smallest farm shape
13:37:23  <Svish> ok
13:37:44  <Svish> cool
13:38:04  <Svish> is there a way I can see all my stations and how much stuff is in them?
13:38:18  <LadyHawk> button to the right of the 'subsidies'
13:38:19  <Yexo> try the station list
13:38:44  <Svish> but it doesnt say how much is in them
13:38:49  <LadyHawk> it sorta does
13:39:07  <LadyHawk> the bigger the block is next to the station name, the more stuff is on the station
13:39:13  <LadyHawk> the small bar below it is the rating i believe
13:39:14  <Svish> or, ah, is that what the width of those color thingies is perhaps
13:39:19  <LadyHawk> yeah
13:39:26  <Svish> ahaa
13:39:31  <Svish> *lightbulb moment*
13:41:05  <LadyHawk> if the bigger bar is as big as the little bar under it, there's i dunno... 300+ on the station (i'm guessing =P)
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13:41:28  <Svish> the green and red line?
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13:42:12  <LadyHawk> sec
13:42:30  <Rubidium> demi-sec
13:43:38  <LadyHawk>
13:43:43  <LadyHawk> hmm
13:43:46  <LadyHawk> 404
13:43:57  <LadyHawk> oh typo
13:44:00  <LadyHawk>
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13:45:02  <LadyHawk> that make more sense now?
13:49:05  <Svish> think so :)
13:49:06  <Svish> thanks
13:49:20  <Svish> why isnt a shared order list default when cloning a vehicle?
13:49:37  <LadyHawk> ?
13:49:54  <LadyHawk> anything i clone has the same orders as whatever train i cloned
13:50:09  <Svish> yeah, but the order list isnt shared
13:50:12  <Yexo> LadyHawk: same orders != shared orders
13:50:16  <Svish> so I have to do that myself
13:50:17  <Yexo> Svish: just ctrl+click
13:50:22  <LadyHawk> oh sorry
13:50:28  <Svish> and when I clone I usually want the train to work _exactly_ the same
13:50:28  <LadyHawk> what's shared orders then?
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13:50:48  <Alberth> Svish: original behavior was not shared + it gives weird results for newbies
13:50:49  <Svish> it is a shared order list so that when you change stuff on one, the changes go for all the others too
13:50:50  <Yexo> LadyHawk: with shared orders when you change the orders of train 1, the orders of train 2 change at the same time
13:51:04  <Svish> Alberth: aha, but can I change that?
13:51:09  <Yexo> no
13:51:21  <Alberth> Svish: in the source code
13:51:23  <Yexo> Svish: if you ctrl+click on the clone button, you clone with shared orders
13:51:31  <Svish> ooo
13:51:38  <Svish> thanks :D
13:51:39  <LadyHawk> !
13:51:42  * LadyHawk must remember that
13:52:17  <LadyHawk> that means that if train 1 is the original
13:52:24  <LadyHawk> train 2 3 4 and 5 are cloned
13:52:30  <LadyHawk> if you change the orders of train 4
13:52:34  <LadyHawk> all 5 trains change orders?
13:52:39  <Svish> if they have shared orderlists
13:52:41  <Yexo> LadyHawk: that only works with shared orders
13:52:46  <LadyHawk> or does it only work with the original
13:52:48  <LadyHawk> cool
13:52:55  <Yexo> and you don't have to clone the trains to get shared orders
13:53:10  <LadyHawk> making them goto another train does it too?
13:53:11  <Yexo> just remove all orders, click goto and click on the vehicle you want to shared the orders of
13:53:12  <Svish> you can make shared order lists if you take one train hit the GoTo button and then ctrl+click on another train
13:53:21  <Yexo> sorry, ctrl+click indeed
13:53:32  <Svish> just clicking works too, but then the orders are not shared
13:53:42  <LadyHawk> maybe that'd be a nice option to add in the advanced settings
13:53:51  <LadyHawk> 'enable to auto-share orders'
13:54:24  <Svish> well, if it happens when you hold ctrl when cloning it doesnt matter with a setting :)
13:54:29  <LadyHawk> true
13:54:38  <Svish> just tested, and it works :D
13:54:44  <LadyHawk> problem is, you need to know about ctrl+click because it isn't listed anywhere =)
13:55:25  <glx> ctrl is the magic key :)
13:55:31  <Yexo> this page lists some of the ctrl uses
13:55:31  <glx> works with many things
13:55:46  <LadyHawk> oh, and something else i was wondering about...
13:55:52  <Svish> thats true
13:56:02  <LadyHawk> is it possible to remove 1 train station track from a station, without demolishing the entire thing in the process?
13:56:09  <Yexo> yep
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13:56:17  <LadyHawk> how?
13:56:18  <glx> buldozer instead dynamite
13:56:20  <Yexo> press station build, then buldozer, then remove 1 (or more) tiles from the station
13:56:54  <LadyHawk> i don't see a buldozer in station build menu?
13:57:05  <LadyHawk> or is that a nightly thing?
13:57:07  <Yexo> it' sin the toolbar
13:57:12  <glx> it's on rail toolbar
13:57:17  <Yexo> no, it's been there since at least 0.5.3 (probably long before)
13:57:21  <glx> or press 'R'
13:57:39  <LadyHawk> ohh found it
13:57:54  <LadyHawk> build station but remove it
13:57:59  <LadyHawk> didn't realise that was possible
13:58:14  <LadyHawk> i knew i could do it with track but not with stations
13:58:17  <LadyHawk> thanks a ton lol
13:58:20  <Alberth> we have lots of hidden features for you to discover :)
13:58:33  <LadyHawk> any more hidden features i should know about? lol
13:59:37  <Svish> does trains slow down if you set a higher travel time in the timetable than they need?
13:59:48  <Yexo> no, they will wait at the station
14:00:06  <Svish> ok
14:00:33  <Svish> lol, I think I would get annoyed if I had to sit in a train for 12 days while people got on before it left
14:01:32  <LadyHawk> and i have a question about the unload orders too..
14:01:38  <LadyHawk> what's the default unload option?
14:01:44  <LadyHawk> unload and see if there's something to grab?
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14:02:00  <Svish> no, unload all and move on
14:02:03  <Svish> as far as I know
14:02:04  <Yexo> unload if accepted and try to load
14:02:13  <Svish> oh, default without changing anything
14:02:21  <Yexo> that's without changing anything
14:02:24  <LadyHawk> then how do you tell them to only unload?
14:02:33  <LadyHawk> because there's no option for that in the unload options
14:02:33  <glx> dropdown
14:02:35  <Svish> the unload button
14:02:36  <Yexo> select "no loading" from the load dropdown
14:02:55  <LadyHawk> there is...
14:03:09  <LadyHawk> unload if accepted (default i assume)
14:03:22  <LadyHawk> unload all (also unloads if not accepted, which shouldn't be done)
14:03:30  <Svish> oh, cool thing I discovered yesterday: you can goto a train depot. and then select service. then the train will only go to the train depo when it needs service :)
14:03:31  <glx> load and unload options are separated
14:03:33  <LadyHawk> transfer (unload to station only so others can load)
14:03:44  <LadyHawk> and 'no unloading' (which is weird?)
14:03:56  <LadyHawk> so which option unloads when accepted, and no loading?
14:04:14  <glx> no loading is a load option
14:04:24  <glx> (other dropdown)
14:04:37  <LadyHawk> oh duh
14:04:50  <LadyHawk> didn't think of looking at that
14:04:59  <LadyHawk> i wish my trains had shared orders now
14:05:00  <LadyHawk> lol
14:05:00  <glx> it's quite intuitive theorically :)
14:05:04  <Svish> hehe
14:05:08  <Svish> just got it myself
14:05:15  <Svish> and it is kind of intuitive when you know about it :p
14:05:27  * Svish thinks those new path signals are kind of cool...
14:05:52  *** andythenorth [~andy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:05:59  * LadyHawk agrees
14:06:13  <LadyHawk> entrance/combo/exit worked good, but it doesn't allow more than 1 train in a block
14:06:40  <LadyHawk> and using those in conjunction with those new signals will make trains have to stop in the middle of the block if all entrances are red
14:06:57  <LadyHawk> instead of waiting in front of the block for a free path
14:07:09  <LadyHawk> so they're sorta obsolete now
14:07:23  <glx> mixing block and path is usually a bad idea :)
14:07:40  <Alberth> LadyHawk: an approach for making orders shared: pick a station where all trains visit, open the station vehicles list, open a vehicle window for each vehicle in the list, pick an 'original vehicle', and start ctl-clicking orders of all other vehicles
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14:08:44  <Svish> noo!! plane crash!
14:08:55  <LadyHawk> planes suck for crashes
14:09:06  <SirSquidness> why do planes crash, even when disasters are off?
14:09:16  <Svish> yeah... when trains crashes it is usually my fault at least...
14:09:20  <LadyHawk> international airports make it possible for aircraft to take away LOADS of goods now, but the plane crashing is the major issue in that setup
14:09:33  <LadyHawk> keeps dropping the ratio to 0
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14:10:03  <LadyHawk> another little something that would a very nice thing to add is planes build specifically to carry only cargo
14:10:11  <LadyHawk> (only goods and valuables are refittable in planes now)
14:10:27  <Yexo> that can be done via newgrfs
14:10:43  <LadyHawk> irl you have those massive cargo planes, but in the standard game they're missing
14:11:00  <glx> try av8
14:14:00  <LadyHawk> does av8 change any existing aircraft?
14:14:39  <LadyHawk> i see the av8 that has extra content but it seems to need av8 itself to work
14:15:29  <LadyHawk> cuz that's the thing i dont like about newgrf
14:15:36  <LadyHawk> they change originals
14:16:03  <Ammler> lol
14:17:04  <Ammler> LadyHawk: isn't that the whole idea about newgrfs?
14:17:15  <LadyHawk> well maybe, but i dont want changes, i want additions =P
14:17:16  <Ammler> but there is also a newgrf, which would bring the originals back.
14:17:41  <petern> av8 needs av8 to worK? that makes little sense...
14:18:24  <LadyHawk> there's 3 av8 ones, 2 old versions
14:18:30  <LadyHawk> and then there's av8 extra aircraft
14:18:48  <planetmaker> LadyHawk: as the name says: "extra"
14:18:53  <planetmaker> it's an add-on to av8
14:19:02  <LadyHawk> exactly
14:19:06  <planetmaker> and can only be used in conjunction with the av8 newgrf
14:19:39  <LadyHawk> maybe i didn't explain it very well, but that's what i was trying to say lol
14:20:10  <planetmaker> well. Any add-on requires the thing it bases on. That's not unusual, is it?
14:21:37  <LadyHawk> nope
14:21:57  <LadyHawk> but like i said, if av8 changes originals, i don't want it.. but i still want extra content =P
14:24:03  <planetmaker> LadyHawk: then make a newgrf
14:25:08  <Ammler> [16:17] <Ammler> but there is also a newgrf, which would bring the originals back.
14:25:16  <Svish> i would like an "extend" and "shorten" button in the train depot... which just... added/removed 1 car of whatever type there was the most of
14:25:17  <planetmaker> ^^
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14:25:32  <planetmaker> so it's even easier. Just too lazy to search. But able to bitch around
14:26:36  <LadyHawk> anyone with experience with the ECS newgrfs?
14:27:30  <planetmaker> no they're just there and no one uses them.
14:27:32  <Ammler> according to the downloads, everyone.
14:28:08  <LadyHawk> grabbing them and av8
14:28:12  <LadyHawk> gonna see what a new game looks like
14:28:13  <LadyHawk> lol
14:28:35  <LadyHawk> thumbs up to the 'check online content' in the main menu too btw
14:28:38  <LadyHawk> wasn't there last time i played
14:30:36  <Svish> will weird things happen if I try to play a saved game in a different version of the game?
14:30:40  <Alberth> in a newer version, you should b ok
14:31:03  <Alberth> +e
14:31:44  <Ammler> in a lower version, it will harm you ;-)
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14:32:09  <Svish> what is Streetcar construction? it is grayed out here...
14:32:22  <Svish> Ammler: ok, nice to know, hehe
14:32:33  <petern> trams
14:33:03  <petern> (don't use american english unless you're american, i guess)
14:37:00  * Alberth was thinking about go-kart like cars with 'streetcars'
14:37:13  <LadyHawk> these ECS newgrfs confuse me
14:37:36  <LadyHawk> do i need some different cargo newgrf for them or something?
14:37:56  <LadyHawk> wood turns into wood-products, wood products turn into paper, paper turns into goods
14:38:05  <LadyHawk> but what do i transport wood products in
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14:39:54  <LadyHawk> or are these supposed to be used in arctic only?
14:45:38  <petern> you need an ecs supporting newgrf vehicle set to be able to transport the new cargo types
14:45:52  <LadyHawk> i can't find one
14:46:03  <glx> there are many
14:47:22  <LadyHawk> could you point me in the right direction please?
14:47:28  <Ammler> wiki
14:47:37  <LadyHawk> i've dug through the online content thing 4 times, no description mentiones ECS
14:49:20  <LadyHawk> eGRVTS... i think i saw that
14:49:53  <LadyHawk> i think descriptions should give info on these kinda things, would make it a lot easier
14:49:55  * LadyHawk tries
14:51:48  <glx> ukrs supports them IIRC, lv4 too
14:52:19  <Ammler> would be easier to mention the sets, which don't
14:52:55  <LadyHawk> eGRVTS has trucks that allow for the ECS industry transport
14:52:57  <glx> dbsetxl without add on doesn't ;)
14:52:58  <LadyHawk> but still no trainns
14:53:10  <LadyHawk> the trams it added also can't transport it
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14:53:44  <Chris_Booth> helo
14:56:18  <LadyHawk> it also only seems to use 1 or 2 of the ECS newgrfs instead of all of them
14:56:29  <LadyHawk> temperate only has wood now
14:57:40  <LadyHawk> for all 4 climates
14:57:41  <LadyHawk> lkol
14:58:15  <Svish> when do I get to make trams?
14:58:49  <LadyHawk> in this ECS thing the trams are listed in same menu as road vehicle construction..
14:59:00  <LadyHawk> trams aren't in the game without any newgrfs
14:59:11  <LadyHawk> (i think)
14:59:28  <LadyHawk> oh they are
14:59:32  <LadyHawk> greyed out in my game
14:59:38  <LadyHawk> and it's 2153
15:00:03  <LadyHawk> that's odd
15:01:24  <LadyHawk> fastforwarding through a new game to check..
15:03:03  <Chris_Booth> when will real metro rail building options be added to OTTD?
15:03:07  <Chris_Booth> if ever?
15:03:17  <LadyHawk> very weird
15:03:26  <LadyHawk> the tram construction thing is greyed out
15:03:45  <LadyHawk> just went through 1950-1983 and it just stays greyed out
15:05:02  <petern> no
15:05:09  <petern> trams aren't in the game without any newgrfs
15:05:15  <petern> therefore it stays greyed out
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15:10:07  <Svish> oh
15:10:08  <Svish> aha
15:10:25  <Svish> can trams be added while you play? or do you have to add them and then start a new game to get them?
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15:13:55  <Svish> hm... I miss a way to upgrade airports...
15:14:42  <Svish> so that I could say: upgrade this airport to an international one. and then they would do that slowly one step at a time while planes were not there, or something...
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15:15:19  <dragonhorseboy> any of you in here play with ECS vectors?
15:16:41  <petern> heh
15:17:46  <LadyHawk> i couldn't get ECS setup properly to even try
15:18:20  <dragonhorseboy> know if these vehicles requirement etc are optional?  because I'm not sure I can fathom how you can make vehicles without coal etc
15:18:45  <petern> no, i don't play it
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15:19:50  <KUDr> dragonhorseboy: optional, but they give more with vehicles
15:20:12  <KUDr> as far as i can tell
15:20:17  <dragonhorseboy> kudr..thanks..I was wondering about these raw industry's inputs for a second
15:21:51  <dragonhorseboy> know what...
15:22:06  <dragonhorseboy> now that I look at it it seem some of ECS vector seem a bit alike to railroad tycoon 2
15:22:27  <dragonhorseboy> eg the farm can output grain on its own (alak cereals in ECS) but you optionally can send in fertilizer
15:22:36  <dragonhorseboy> figures
15:22:43  <KUDr> yes, but theyhave buffers
15:22:53  <dragonhorseboy> yeah
15:23:10  <KUDr> and have parameters to configure them
15:23:17  <dragonhorseboy> hmm clever....lets see what the vehicle factory needs...
15:23:27  <KUDr> i.e. infinite buffers/always accept cargo
15:24:34  <dragonhorseboy> yeah I'm probably going set it that way... I find stockpiles just a bit too difficult (and lets NOT talk about trying to even balance iron ore verus coal in pikka's grf .. no offense meant but I kinda hated that a lot)
15:24:58  <KUDr> same here
15:25:17  <dragonhorseboy> you should see jonty's public IS2-beta3 map .. I have to feed like six or seven powerplants all just from only two bloody coal mines .. I'll prefer just two or even one powerplant alone :S
15:25:32  <dragonhorseboy> heh
15:25:49  <dragonhorseboy> hmmm glass and dyes...where to get that from now...
15:26:08  <LadyHawk> you make me want to get ECS to work
15:26:30  <dragonhorseboy> down .. where's sand and dyes...
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15:26:55  <dragonhorseboy> ladyhawk..heh if its the problem - you have to place the ecs grfs in specific order that basic&town vectors are right on the bottom to start with
15:27:49  <dragonhorseboy> ok..where's the dyes coming from now hm
15:27:56  <dragonhorseboy> *clicks random lines*
15:29:11  <dragonhorseboy> chemicals..should had thought of that
15:29:15  <dragonhorseboy> meh*
15:30:19  <dragonhorseboy> kudr I swear ECS can seem a tad daunting with so many vectors at once heh
15:30:47  <KUDr> yes, i use just 5
15:30:56  <KUDr> and no more together
15:31:12  <dragonhorseboy> trying place several of them on a random 512*256 map with three towns just to see how things flows what to where for now in scenario editor
15:31:33  <KUDr> but you can make different combinations and cargo acceptance will differ little bit
15:31:35  <dragonhorseboy> I might just skip the entire vehicle vector after looking at how many plants are needed just for that 0_o
15:32:11  <KUDr> for beginning use direct industry funding in game
15:32:25  <LadyHawk> the
15:32:27  <KUDr> so you can set it as you need
15:32:29  <LadyHawk> town vector
15:32:38  <LadyHawk> when i add that everything else disappears
15:32:57  <LadyHawk> i had the same with the wood one, but when that was at the bottom it suddenly worked
15:32:59  <KUDr> must be first
15:33:11  <dragonhorseboy> coal (two times), sand, steel, glass, dyes, refined products, oil = finally some vehicles .. then to transport the vehicles as well
15:33:14  <dragonhorseboy> seem too big for me :P
15:34:04  <dragonhorseboy> at least fish is one easy one... from fishing boat to cannery to tourist .. just my kind of thing :D
15:34:38  <KUDr> LadyHawk: basic, town, and then others
15:37:00  <LadyHawk> i think i've got most of it now, something's still missing i think tho
15:37:02  <Svish> woah, 99% transported. first time I've ever seen that...
15:37:29  <LadyHawk> Svish it's hard to get an outstanding ratio on your station
15:38:06  <LadyHawk> another problem i'm having with ECS is there's no vehicles to transport all this
15:38:20  <dragonhorseboy> ladyhawk..not all trainsets seem to acknowledge it...
15:38:35  <LadyHawk> i have eGRVTS
15:38:43  <KUDr> old_wagons_new_cargos.1.1
15:38:56  <KUDr> this wotks here
15:39:27  <dragonhorseboy> you have dbsetxl, certain (or did pikka finished it finally?) limited support with ukrs and plausible NARS, canset for sure (I recall sand/etc which is ECS for sure), russiaplanes (no clue on planeset&av8, find for yourself)
15:41:06  <dragonhorseboy> kudr do you use the wood vector as well?
15:41:12  <LadyHawk> oh thanks a lot
15:41:15  <LadyHawk> !
15:41:38  <KUDr> it is active but not yet use it
15:42:25  <dragonhorseboy> kudr ah hm well...
15:43:05  <dragonhorseboy> I presume the middle industries with multiply requirements doesn't need all of it to produce the one output required but it might have lower and/or slower production in that case anyway right?
15:43:29  <dragonhorseboy> I'm looking at Printing Works now .. it needs both paper and dyes altogether but I wonder about if no dyes was delievered yet
15:43:50  <KUDr> yes, they seem to have some hidden algorithm for that
15:44:00  <dragonhorseboy> cheers
15:45:29  <dragonhorseboy> ok think I figured out a setup I like :)
15:48:15  <dragonhorseboy> disabled chemical&machinery .. looks better as well
15:48:42  <dragonhorseboy> and that figured .. now the paper mill doesn't need any dyes
15:49:02  <dragonhorseboy> I kinda hate the very strict tourist building placements but oh well :p
15:49:21  <dragonhorseboy> took me a while to figure out the fancy castle one
15:51:05  <dragonhorseboy> btw not to sound dumb but..
15:51:18  <dragonhorseboy> did ottd still require a seperate grf to get temperate snowy mountains?
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15:53:38  <HackaLittleBit> hello
15:54:00  <Alberth> hai
15:58:03  <HackaLittleBit> just a small question, would it be possible to have a decimal isntead of hexidecimal reading of tile index in landscape info?(misc_gui.cpp line177)
16:00:29  <frosch123> the decimal value is even less informative than the hexadecimal
16:00:53  <Alberth> unlikely, but how is that better? In this way, you can see the value of bits
16:01:34  <dragonhorseboy> anyway one question about hosting ottd...
16:02:45  <dragonhorseboy> could you start openttd then type in 'spectate' in the command line then 'reset_company 1' to delete the now-no-players company that was previously yours?
16:03:08  <Yexo> I don't see why not
16:03:42  <Yexo> a small test confirmed that it worked
16:03:51  <Yexo> s/worked/works/
16:03:55  <dragonhorseboy> thanks..i always wondered about the limitation of windows having no command line version of ottd so heh yeah
16:04:07  <dragonhorseboy> going try host a small map with two other players tomorrow ^-^
16:04:07  <LadyHawk> am i supposed to be able to transport vehicles with trucks?
16:04:18  <LadyHawk> i have no trucks
16:04:20  <LadyHawk> lol
16:04:21  <dragonhorseboy> ladyhawk... car carrier trucks do exist yes? :)
16:04:28  <LadyHawk> yeah
16:04:31  <dragonhorseboy> same for the car carrier boat in newshipsw :p
16:04:37  <dragonhorseboy> anyway I need to brb for lunch :S
16:05:22  <LadyHawk> hahaha i like this warning
16:05:32  <LadyHawk> changing newgrf settings during a game can crash ottd!
16:06:07  <Yexo> LadyHawk: just don't come bugging us if it does really crash
16:09:13  <Svish> is there a way to "clone" a train depot?
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16:09:38  <Svish> so that I can have it on the orders list, but it chooses the one that is easiest to get to kind of...
16:13:17  <Yexo> you can give a "service in nearest depot" order to your vehicles
16:13:21  <LadyHawk> haha
16:13:55  <LadyHawk> if it does end up crashing i'll just laugh =)
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16:18:08  <Svish> Yexo: really? how do I do that?
16:18:43  <Yexo> from the dropdown that contains "go to"
16:18:53  <dragonhorseboy> back
16:19:04  <Svish> ooooh
16:19:06  <Svish> didnt see that one!
16:19:17  <Svish> what does Conditional order jump mean??
16:21:39  <dragonhorseboy> btw yexo thanks .. I finally got around to closing some things to run ottd again (stupid memory..blah :S ) .. and now am looking at a random small map with me myself just spectating and no companies present :)
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16:21:57  <dragonhorseboy> I'm just wondering tho...
16:22:42  <dragonhorseboy> when I did the 'companies' listing in command .. I wonder what the four numbers in brackets after value is for (T:0 R:0 P:0 S:0)
16:23:46  <Yexo> nr. of trains, road vehicles, planes and ships
16:25:01  <dragonhorseboy> oh..heh i see now
16:26:09  <dragonhorseboy> btw how does the 'move' command actually work now?  i created company 1 then spectated then created company 2 .. whether I'm in company 2 or spectate 'move dragonhorseboy 1' does not seem to work
16:26:15  <dragonhorseboy> just wondering
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16:32:03  <HackaLittleBit> Frosch123: Ok was just trying to make my life easier(still have some problems reading hex numbers :-) ) Thanks Frosch123, Alberth
16:32:16  <dragonhorseboy> well have to go..will check again at night anyway
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16:35:57  <HackaLittleBit> have to now byby
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16:45:11  <LadyHawk> interesting ECS
16:45:26  <LadyHawk> i've got something running at 100% capacity, getting everything it needs and news just popped up
16:45:33  <LadyHawk> requesting good service or shut down in 24 months?
16:47:14  <LadyHawk> oh, the food factory i had just gone as well
16:47:27  <LadyHawk> full capacity is apparently not good enough o_O
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16:56:20  <Svish> is there a way I can nuke a city?
16:56:29  <LadyHawk> lol
16:56:38  <LadyHawk> get rid of as much junk as you can
16:56:48  <LadyHawk> then you'll have to wait or bribe them so they like you again
16:56:50  <LadyHawk> repeat
16:56:53  <KingJ> Magic bulldozer if you're feeling lazy on the other hand
16:57:03  <Svish> magic bulldozer?
16:57:06  <LadyHawk> ?
16:57:16  <KingJ> It's a cheat, lets you bulldoze anything without penalty
16:57:27  <Svish> how do you do that?
16:57:30  <LadyHawk> lol
16:57:34  <Svish> i need to know...
16:57:37  <KingJ>
16:57:40  <Svish> this one city is bugging me like crazy :p
16:58:11  <Eddi|zuHause> <LadyHawk> i've got something running at 100% capacity, getting everything it needs and news just popped up <- you have to take away the end products, too
16:58:27  <Eddi|zuHause> with at least 70% station rating
16:58:37  <Svish> so um... how do you do it? the wiki only says what it does
16:58:38  <Eddi|zuHause> ECS has insane requirements
16:58:46  <Svish> how do i turn it on or use it or activate it or?
16:59:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Svish: read the page properly
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17:37:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r16616 /trunk/src/lang/french.txt:
17:37:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:37:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 41 changes by glx
17:37:47  <frosch123> \o/
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17:44:54  <Eddi|zuHause> so, how's that project going along?
17:45:15  <planetmaker> :O
17:45:29  <planetmaker> damn. And I still corrected the string in wt2 ;)
17:45:31  <frosch123> I have as little clue as you
17:45:54  <frosch123> maybe rb just pressed the wrong button :p
17:46:11  <Rubidium> I didn't press a button
17:46:16  <frosch123> so tb did
17:46:24  <Rubidium> the french translators are testing it
17:47:32  <Rubidium> and testing commit/handling its own commits is part of that
17:47:58  <glx> btw I like WT3 :)
17:48:27  <LadyHawk> the only thing trains need to learn on those signal blocks is to make room for another train whenever possible =P
17:49:14  <LadyHawk> like.... train to arrive first has 2 free choices, choice 1 would block the only free option for another train about to arrive, but it picks choice 1 anyway
17:49:37  <LadyHawk> but i'm not sure that's even possible to code
17:49:42  <Rubidium> feel free to code it ;)
17:50:15  <LadyHawk> i can't lol
17:51:01  <Rubidium> (some) people have the ability to learn it
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17:51:27  <Rubidium> I couldn't code either (quite a while ago)
17:54:27  <Spucoly>  im running open ttd ver 0.7.1 rc3. How do you fix the version mismatch on multy player
17:54:49  <Xaroth> Spucoly: search for AutoTTD on the forums
17:55:16  <glx> Spucoly: update
17:55:27  <glx> latest is 0.7.1
17:55:46  <Xaroth> [+glx]: latest is 0.7.1 << not all servers run 0.7.1
17:56:01  <glx> and you fix the mismatch by using the same version as the server
17:56:49  <Spucoly> what version is a common one
17:57:06  <Xaroth> Spucoly: AutoTTD can update your client to the server you want to connect to
17:57:07  <frosch123> test question: Spucoly: what to you consider newer? "0.7.1" or "0.7.1 rc 3" ?
17:57:16  <Xaroth> as i said, search for it on the forums
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17:59:19  <LadyHawk> rc? i'd assume release candidate
17:59:29  <LadyHawk> which is older
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18:00:17  <Xaroth> LadyHawk: that's why he said it was a test question :)
18:01:00  <Spucoly> 7.1
18:01:06  *** Spucoly [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
18:02:19  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i want openttd 7.1, too
18:02:57  <Rubidium> then fracking finish opengfx, opensample and opengm ;)
18:03:25  <Xaroth> heh
18:03:29  <Eddi|zuHause> and open3dmap?
18:03:39  <Eddi|zuHause> openmaprotation?
18:03:58  <Rubidium> no
18:04:08  <Xaroth> those are for 8.0 .
18:04:18  <Rubidium> YAMRP and YAMRP ;)
18:05:20  <LadyHawk> allow a 'signal setup' to set the preferred route
18:05:31  <LadyHawk> of a train that passes that signal into the block
18:06:30  <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: if you can't program it, you can design an interface for it that does not require micromanagement
18:06:44  <LadyHawk> open that setup with your magic ctrl key
18:06:52  <LadyHawk> when placing signal.. i dunnio
18:07:03  <Eddi|zuHause> ctrl is already used
18:07:20  <LadyHawk> another hidden feature i didn't know about? *goes and checks*
18:07:30  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: ctrl-key is used, but apparantly there is a "magic ctrl"-key too
18:07:41  <LadyHawk> lol
18:08:06  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i don't have a "magic ctrl" key
18:08:08  <LadyHawk> i discovered quite a few things being attached to the ctrl key i never knew about today, thats why i was calling that key magic =P
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18:08:20  <Eddi|zuHause> actually, i don't have a "ctrl" key either
18:08:33  <Rubidium> strg or so then ;)
18:08:40  <Eddi|zuHause> :)
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18:09:08  <Rubidium> for those people not being blessed with a non-German keyboard
18:09:27  <Eddi|zuHause> a long time ago i had a keyboard where somebody had written "ctrl" on the "strg" key ;)
18:10:27  <Tefad> heh
18:12:36  <Eddi|zuHause> ok... my RMB finally gave up completely...
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18:17:22  <Tefad> i had that happen once
18:17:30  <Tefad> i bought a new mouse.
18:18:00  <Tefad> it did /not/ get along with my modem no matter what configurations i tried. mobo defect i think. had to buy 2nd replacement.
18:18:22  <Tefad> (ps2 mouse died, bought serial.. bought ps2..)
18:20:11  <Eddi|zuHause> hm. is it a wise idea to hotplug a ps2-mouse?
18:21:08  <planetmaker> hehe
18:21:53  <Aali> Eddi|zuHause: your OS wont know about it so it's probably not going to work
18:22:30  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't feel like rebooting either
18:30:00  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: it might or might not crash your system, though
18:30:22  <planetmaker> or get a ps2 to usb adapter
18:33:10  <petern> if you're unlucky you'll blow the fuse
18:33:26  <petern> so the port'll never work again
18:37:35  <Alberth1> but you get a free shutdown in exchange
18:38:09  <petern> not usually
18:38:25  <jonty-comp> it shutdown mine
18:38:41  <jonty-comp> interestingly I hotplug the ps/2 keyboard on my server all the time, and linux seems to detect it
18:39:06  <Tefad> ehhh...
18:39:13  <Tefad> that's not really what happens
18:39:24  <Tefad> ps2 keyboards get auto init'd by most machines
18:39:34  <Tefad> ps2 mice have different inits
18:39:53  <jonty-comp> well if you plug a ps/2 keyboard in when running XP it doesn't do anything]
18:40:01  <Tefad> jonty-comp: depends on the computer.
18:40:14  <Tefad> also laptops love hotplug devices for some reason
18:40:20  <Tefad> and i think rackmount shit too
18:40:29  <Tefad> oh crap excuse me. i forgot where i was : x
18:43:08  <petern> hmm?
18:43:11  <jonty-comp> pfah
18:43:25  <jonty-comp> this laptop has a docking station with PS/2, serial and parallel on
18:43:27  <jonty-comp> and a CD drive
18:43:37  <jonty-comp> but the manual says I'm not supposed to hotplug it
18:43:41  <jonty-comp> seems to work fine though
18:43:55  <jonty-comp> (yes, it is an old laptop)
18:44:15  <Tefad> sounds prehistoric.. like pentium-classic era
18:44:20  <jonty-comp> 2002
18:44:27  <jonty-comp> t'is an ultraportable
18:44:31  <Tefad> then you should be ok *shrug*
18:44:36  <petern> non-hotpluggable docking station seems ... dumb
18:44:53  <jonty-comp> and the hard disk vibration is reverberating through my entire desk, and annoying me
18:45:01  <petern> another issue with hotplugging ps/2 is that often the bios will not allocate an IRQ to it if it's not present on boot up
18:45:05  <jonty-comp> but the wifi has decided to stop working on my desktop
18:45:07  <petern> applies to the mouse, anyway
18:45:08  <jonty-comp> as well as the sound
18:45:34  * petern grumbles about onboard audio
18:45:42  * jonty-comp grumbles about wifi
18:45:47  <petern> i keep losing ebay auctions for decent audio kit :(
18:46:01  * Tefad grumbles about horribly written drivers that make windows explode upon deinstallation
18:46:03  <petern> my recording input has a major dc bias
18:46:20  <petern> which explains why things like talking in valve games fucked things up
18:46:23  * jonty-comp complains about windows drivers in general
18:46:27  <jonty-comp> particularly huge ones.
18:46:40  <jonty-comp> like nvidia drivers, I'm sure I don't actually need 100MB of crap
18:47:04  <Tefad> oh larl. i thought there was some language holding-back in here. ignore my previous odd comment.
18:47:27  <jonty-comp> if you swear in an open-source channel, you get banned from the internet
18:47:31  <jonty-comp> except in #debian
18:47:44  <Tefad> hur
18:47:52  <Eddi|zuHause> if you are unsure, ROT13 it ;)
18:47:52  <oskari89> Where can i find the Finnish (random) placenames? I could add some..
18:48:07  <oskari89> Finnish.lng -> not found
18:48:31  <jonty-comp> hmm, there must be a finnish translation
18:48:46  <Eddi|zuHause> oskari89: modifying town name generators is not supported (it changes names in existing savegames)
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18:48:59  <Eddi|zuHause> oskari89: provide a grf for it instead
18:49:16  <oskari89> I see. How to do?
18:49:23  <Eddi|zuHause> (what's the fuzz with town names suddenly)
18:49:54  <Eddi|zuHause> oskari89: i'm pretty sure there is a tutorial somewhere
18:50:11  <Eddi|zuHause> as well as examples how to transform an existing town name generator into a grf
18:50:15  <glx> <jonty-comp> like nvidia drivers, I'm sure I don't actually need 100MB of crap <-- but it supports all models and languages :)
18:50:20  <glx> in one file
18:50:26  <jonty-comp> well, exactly
18:50:31  <jonty-comp> that's nice for them
18:50:36  <glx> for me too
18:50:37  <jonty-comp> but I don't need 99% of it
18:50:40  <SmatZ> not all models, just GF6+
18:50:42  <glx> only one file to seek
18:50:48  <SmatZ> in the newest drivers pack
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18:51:37  <Eddi|zuHause> a one-size-fits-all download is not the worst idea they ever had
18:51:39  <jonty-comp> bah, capacitor whine
18:51:48  * jonty-comp wills laptop to shut up and charge quietly
18:51:52  <Eddi|zuHause> considering the cheapness of bandwidth nowadays
18:52:50  <jonty-comp> it seems a bit silly to go through that whole thing of selecting your card and then having the same download for most of them
18:53:07  <jonty-comp> they should just have a "click here if your card is this old" button
18:53:08  <SmatZ> when I want to download "czech" version of the driver, I have to select "Polish" in the dropdown to download the international version
18:53:21  <SmatZ> there is nothing like "czech" or "international" in the dropdown
18:53:28  <glx> nice
18:53:33  <SmatZ> I wonder who designed that
18:53:36  <oskari89> Eddie|zuHause: Can you remember where's the tutorial?
18:53:50  <Eddi|zuHause> no
18:53:57  <jonty-comp> I'm happy they provide English (US) and English (UK) though :p
18:53:59  <Eddi|zuHause> and use the tab key next time you misspell a name
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18:54:59  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: I didn't notice the spell error before you said it
18:55:16  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i did, because it did not highlight me :p
18:57:19  <jonty-comp> touche
18:57:38  <jonty-comp> oh, why is there a pear on my desk
18:57:43  <jonty-comp> I don't remember putting that there
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18:57:56  <Eddi|zuHause> it spontaneously materialised
18:58:29  <jonty-comp> quite possible
18:58:53  * jonty-comp spontaneously dematerialises to the television viewing area
19:00:30  <Eddi|zuHause> <- "die spinnen, die Briten"
19:03:19  <SmatZ> 10 years ago, I wouldn't believe this can be true
19:03:59  <frosch123> 10 years ago, I could not believe arbitrary webpages to be censored either :p
19:04:59  <SmatZ> we got free from one totality 20 years ago, and another one is coming
19:05:10  <Eddi|zuHause> well, next year we will see a ban on websites that offer encryption...
19:05:15  *** andythenorth [~andy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:05:29  <SmatZ> :-p
19:05:52  <Eddi|zuHause> tor is already semi-illegal
19:06:39  <SmatZ> this week, I started considering to vote for "piratpartiet" in next elections... not that I wanted "music for free", but I want to stop this madness
19:07:10  *** Splex [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:07:39  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah... in germany they got 0.9% in the european election, i expect that to increase in the federal election in september
19:07:40  <frosch123> so you did not yet vote for them in eu election
19:07:47  *** andythenorth [~andy@] has joined #openttd
19:08:08  <SmatZ> nope
19:08:33  <glx> and you don't have LOPPSI :)
19:08:35  <Eddi|zuHause> imho, the 5% limit is ridiculously high, though... a 3% (or so) limit would have done the trick as well...
19:08:40  <SmatZ> I think they weren't in nomination anyway
19:08:47  <SmatZ> glx: it was cancelled, wasn't it?
19:08:49  <glx> (it's just a project for now)
19:08:52  <SmatZ> :)
19:09:05  <glx> hmm it was HADOPI :)
19:09:14  <SmatZ> haha
19:09:16  <glx> not cancelled, but censored
19:10:12  <glx> only a judge can shutdown internet now, and they have to prove we are guilty
19:10:33  <glx> that's way better
19:10:54  <glx> and constitutionnal too :)
19:11:04  <Eddi|zuHause> not many things can be as bad as our "the constitution court should not fucking interfere with my laws all the time" minister of interior
19:11:28  <glx> it was not minister of interior
19:11:45  <glx> but the idea is the same :)
19:12:21  <Eddi|zuHause> well, that was an actual sentence of our minister (minus the "fucking")
19:13:31  <glx> <-- that's the next step (I didn't look for translated page)
19:13:48  <glx> there are "nice" things in it
19:16:13  <Eddi|zuHause> "une liste noire des sites, non rendue publique, sera ?tablie par l'administration, les FAI seront quant ? eux tenus de bloquer l'acc?s ? ces sites" <- if my french not totally fails me, that is what our parliament decided last week
19:16:51  <glx> yes black list, it's not really a bad thing, unless it's done like in china
19:17:13  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is, if the power is there, it WILL be abused
19:19:49  *** andythenorth [~andy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:20:11  <glx> and we are the country of human rights
19:20:41  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, 200 years ago ;)
19:21:04  <glx> they used it to censore HADOPI :)
19:21:26  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i read that
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19:31:06  <SmatZ> allowing some commercial organisation to disconnect people from the internet
19:31:12  <SmatZ> while they still have to pay for it
19:31:15  <SmatZ> is outrage
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19:32:15  <SmatZ> "stopping paedophilia" "stopping terrorists" and such
19:32:38  <SmatZ> just... when they want to censor internet, there can be millions of reasons for that
19:32:44  <SmatZ> and these are things people dislike
19:32:48  <SmatZ> so they chose them
19:32:54  <SmatZ> if people disliked cows
19:33:04  <SmatZ> the reason would be "there are pictures of cows on the internet"
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19:34:13  <SmatZ> I wonder haw many paedophiles and terrorists are actually stopped in their crime
19:34:25  <SmatZ> if there is any crime done by paedophiles on the internet
19:35:00  <SmatZ> I just hate "playing on emotions"
19:35:11  <frosch123> ^^,
19:35:15  <Noldo> Think of the children!!
19:35:20  <SmatZ> :(
19:36:37  <Noldo> SmatZ: btw, do they use the finnish system as a good example there?
19:37:55  <SmatZ> :)
19:38:02  <SmatZ> Noldo: I don't know
19:38:17  <SmatZ> we don't have problems with internet censorship afaik
19:38:31  <frosch123> <- I like that one (sorry german)
19:38:52  <SmatZ> but some ISPs are blocking internet ... they use some "list of bad sites" provided by some organisation
19:38:54  <frosch123> (though you can take a look at the print-preview)
19:39:00  <SmatZ> truely trustworthy
19:39:13  <SmatZ> and it has been at least once misused to block a regular site
19:39:39  <Noldo> SmatZ: well, here the list is provided by the police
19:39:55  <Noldo> and there is one finnish site on the list
19:40:11  <Noldo> only because it lists the addresses on the list
19:40:35  <SmatZ> :-p
19:41:00  <SmatZ> frosch123: nice :)
19:42:29  <SmatZ> maybe it would be better if it worked only when accessed from "government-owned" institutions
19:42:43  <Eddi|zuHause> the funniest part is the reference to circumventing a copy protection :p
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20:57:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16617 /trunk/src/airport.h: -Cleanup: some incorrect indenting
20:58:18  <oskari89> Eddie|zuhause: Hmm, is town name generation hard-coded on default names?
20:58:34  <oskari89> For example, Finnish ones.
20:59:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r16618 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_airport.cpp: -Fix (r16614): Silence a warning.
21:01:37  <frosch123> the default names are hardcoded, but you can also add new schemes by newgrfs
21:01:50  <frosch123> and there are various of them available already
21:05:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16619 /trunk/src/ (airport.cpp airport.h): -Cleanup: more coding style in airport stuff.
21:05:51  <Eddi|zuHause> oskari89: still not figured out how to spell names?
21:06:50  <Eddi|zuHause> not only is it disrespectful of people to misspell their names
21:06:59  <Eddi|zuHause> it also fails the point of highlighting them
21:07:00  <oskari89> Oh, sorry about that.
21:07:06  *** mars3142 [] has joined #openttd
21:07:06  <oskari89> :P
21:07:34  <Eddi|zuHause> try Ed[Tab]
21:07:47  *** Azrael [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:07:53  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: give it up, I also highlight on frosh
21:08:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16620 /trunk/src/airport.cpp: -Fix (r16619): sometimes one misses the obvious :(
21:08:34  <Eddi|zuHause> it does usually not happen ;)
21:08:52  <Rubidium> if they can't be bothered to write my name correctly, they aren't bothered enough to get their question answered
21:09:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubadidel??
21:09:41  <glx> btw typing Eddi|zuHause by hand with an extra "e" is silly :)
21:09:49  <Rubidium> and if I can get bothered enough by someone to type /ignore <nickname>, they don't care about getting their questions answered either
21:11:13  *** mars3142 [] has quit []
21:18:33  <oskari89> Eddi|zuHause: Do you know what happens if the town generation names are same on external GRF, than on the hard-code?
21:19:03  <Eddi|zuHause> why would anything happen?
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21:19:32  <oskari89> External grf and hard-coded names mix up?
21:19:36  <oskari89> Or do they? :P
21:19:36  <Yexo> no
21:19:44  <Yexo> you have to chose one town name set
21:19:54  <Yexo> either a built-in one or one defined by a single newgrf
21:19:55  <z-MaTRiX> ehlo
21:20:34  <oskari89> Yexo: So the single newgrf overrides all hard-code names?
21:21:01  <Yexo> oskari89: in the main menu, go to game options, then chose one town name set
21:21:17  <Yexo> all generated names will be from that set
21:21:22  <Yexo> you can't mix town-name sets
21:21:22  <glx> grf town names are added to the list
21:21:35  <oskari89> Okay, i understand now :)
21:21:57  <oskari89> Thanks.
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21:35:07  <PeterT> hey
21:38:38  <rortom> hi
21:38:48  <rortom> cool now we have a petern and PeterT :p
21:39:13  <petern> /kick PeterT lies!
21:39:29  <PeterT> lol
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21:39:48  <PeterT> why doesnt the exec script command work?
21:39:54  <majestyk> hi all :)
21:40:14  <Eddi|zuHause> depends on what script you want to command to exec
21:40:37  <PeterT> i want it to exec a script i made
21:41:20  <majestyk> just a quick question - probably an easy one too - how close do truck stations and train stations have to be for a feeder service to work?
21:41:43  <Eddi|zuHause> they have to be the same station
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21:41:48  <dragonhorseboy> hey
21:41:54  <Eddi|zuHause> use the ctrl key if they are not directly adjacent
21:42:32  <majestyk> same station, like having the same name?
21:42:55  <Eddi|zuHause> same station as having the same station sign with both a train and a truck symbol
21:43:20  <majestyk> ah, I see :) learned something already
21:43:34  <PeterT> ok, so what do i do about exec command
21:43:35  <majestyk> and what about using the ctrl key?
21:43:43  <PeterT> the script name is JackServer.scr
21:43:46  <PeterT> i use
21:43:53  <Xaroth> majestyk: it allows you to distant-join a station
21:43:53  <PeterT> exec JackServer.scr
21:44:06  <PeterT> and it says something like "no local script file found"
21:44:10  <Xaroth> PeterT: use a full path?
21:44:22  <Xaroth> exec C:\bla\bla\bla\bla\JackServer.scr
21:44:26  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: put it into the scripts directory?
21:44:27  <Xaroth> or whatever-teh-fook
21:44:36  <PeterT> i did put it in script directory
21:44:45  <PeterT> full path might work, not sure though
21:45:02  <Eddi|zuHause> and did you try the existing scripts?
21:45:45  <PeterT> thats what i tested with
21:45:50  <PeterT> scripts like
21:45:55  <PeterT> on_server_connect.scr
21:45:57  <PeterT> which i made
21:46:16  <Eddi|zuHause> majestyk: when you build a truck station, you may press the ctrl key, and it pops up with a window. there you can choose which station to join
21:47:45  <majestyk> Thank you :)
21:47:47  <dragonhorseboy> is there any website or forum thread for all of these ai/gui thinges in the ottd downloader list thing?  (especially just what is 'NOcab' anyway?)
21:48:05  <majestyk> I was a bit puzzled about when to use the ctrl key, but distant-join pointed me in the right direction
21:48:07  <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: for most AIs
21:48:23  <majestyk> the wiki was useful from that point on :)
21:48:30  <Eddi|zuHause> majestyk: also check
21:48:41  <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: list of all files with links to forum topics / websites
21:49:37  <PeterT>
21:49:47  <majestyk> OK, that looks useful too, thanks
21:49:49  <PeterT>
21:50:07  <PeterT> oops, thats not a page
21:50:27  <majestyk> I'll go and play some more, thank you very much for your help Eddi and Xaroth
21:50:32  <majestyk> *waves*
21:50:37  <PeterT> what site in wiki do i go to for the variables for the "setting" command?
21:50:41  *** majestyk [] has quit [Quit: ~w~]
21:50:41  * PeterT waves
21:50:52  <Eddi|zuHause>,%2021.%20Okt%201925.png <- example of a transfer station
21:51:06  <dragonhorseboy> thanks for the forum link yexo
21:56:15  <PeterT> is this correct:
21:56:21  <PeterT> [pf] forbid.90_deg 1
21:57:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so
21:57:23  <PeterT> i thought so
21:57:27  <PeterT> what is the correct?
21:57:54  <PeterT> oh wait, got it
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22:06:28  <PeterT> 4 is the highest growth speed?
22:06:31  <PeterT> am i correct?
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22:22:51  <Svish> soo.... how do people usually go about upgrading their rail systems? :S
22:23:05  <dragonhorseboy> svish what trainset?
22:23:12  <Svish> from electric to maglev
22:23:20  <Rubidium> from normal to electrified and then don't upgrade ;)
22:23:21  <Svish> skipped monorail cause I didn't want to... :p
22:23:27  <dragonhorseboy> svish..that doesn't tell me which trainset? (or are you using original?)
22:23:32  <Svish> oh
22:23:33  <Svish> yes
22:23:37  <Svish> plain old
22:23:44  <KingJ> I tend to play with rail only. Might make a special maglev route
22:23:45  <Svish> no grf stuff
22:23:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i go with Rubidium on that matter
22:23:51  <dragonhorseboy> clue then..because I never get to the point of bothering with either two
22:24:10  <dragonhorseboy> the TIM and Asiastar are enough for ground lines by then
22:24:13  <Svish> you always quit before you come to monorail?
22:24:21  <dragonhorseboy> svish..nope...look up to the sky :P
22:24:30  <Svish> whaat?
22:24:40  <Svish> planes?
22:24:43  <dragonhorseboy> ya
22:24:53  <Svish> planes are so boring... :p
22:25:04  <KingJ> Rail and road all the way
22:25:13  <Svish> i don't even use road...
22:25:15  <KingJ> Who cares if the train journey takes 6 months? :P
22:25:15  <dragonhorseboy> svish...then don't bother asking for speed? :P
22:25:38  <Svish> but fast trains are fun trains :p
22:26:14  <Svish> oh well... guess its the same old "send all trains to depots - upgrade all rails - create new trains one-by-one"... *sigh*
22:26:15  <Rubidium> monorail is ugly and maglev is hard to properly see
22:26:37  <Svish> but they are so fast
22:26:38  <Svish> :p
22:26:44  <Eddi|zuHause> maglev is the most ugly of all
22:26:51  <Rubidium> so I just play with SH40/Asiastar till far into the third millenium
22:26:59  <Aali> no newgrf railtypes yet?
22:27:10  <Svish> third millenium?
22:27:18  <Svish> must have a crazy system then...
22:27:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Aali: no, petern is a lazy bastard
22:27:22  <Svish> may I see? :p
22:27:25  <Aali> then you could just point all these whiners to the "all railtypes are compatible" grf :)
22:27:39  <Yexo> Svish: years 2xxx are third millenium :)
22:27:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Svish: the 3rd milennium starts in 2001
22:27:44  <Svish> oh...
22:27:46  <Yexo> we live in the 3rd millenium
22:27:47  <Svish> true...
22:27:50  <Svish> always forget that, haha
22:28:31  <Yexo> but to answer your original question, generally I don't upgrade
22:28:54  <Yexo> I upgrade normal->electrified, then sometimes I build some maglev lines
22:29:29  <Rubidium> and the effect of maglev isn't that big on 128x128 maps ;)
22:29:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i never played a 128x128 map
22:30:03  <dragonhorseboy> yexo..yeah I'm same..I usually only bother buying the dbsetxl maglevs when its two far-away large cities
22:30:07  <dragonhorseboy> etc
22:30:09  <Svish> aha
22:30:14  <Svish> i play default... 256
22:30:19  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: never looked at Rubidium's 128? map ?
22:30:25  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i did ;)
22:30:38  <Rubidium> that's not Eddi|zuHause's style ;)
22:30:40  <glx> amazing stuff
22:30:40  <Eddi|zuHause> with the escher-style ship bridges ;)
22:30:52  <Svish> anyone have a giant screenshot of a game they are proud of? curious to see how others are doing things...
22:31:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i only have small screenshots
22:31:13  <KingJ> I've got a 400mb screenshot somewhere
22:31:20  <KingJ> I've not actually tried opening it
22:31:32  <Svish> wow
22:31:33  <Eddi|zuHause> giant screenshots are not exactly handle-able on a 2048^2 map
22:31:37  <glx> how long did it take to create it ?
22:31:42  <KingJ> About a minute or two
22:31:43  <Svish> oh, that large game
22:31:43  <Svish> :p
22:31:47  <Eddi|zuHause> most programs crash on trying to open them
22:31:50  <Svish> was thinking more like regular 256 or slammer :p
22:31:58  <KingJ> I deleted it, i'll go make another and time it
22:32:23  <KingJ> ah no, found it
22:33:13  <KingJ> The windows photo viewer refuses to open it
22:33:15  <Rubidium>,%209th%20Dec%202418.png
22:33:58  <KingJ> wow
22:34:24  <Eddi|zuHause>,%204.%20Sep%201925.png <- one of my favourites
22:34:25  <KingJ> Photoshop seems to be loading it fine, albeit slowly
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22:34:52  <KingJ> Nice loop
22:35:07  <KingJ> Could you not make a breakaway section for those that wish to bypass Innsberg?
22:35:28  <Eddi|zuHause> KingJ: many programs are trying to decompress the entire image before displaying
22:35:31  <Svish> haha, lol@ ships :p
22:35:34  <Eddi|zuHause> and crash on lack of memory
22:36:24  <KingJ> So far, it's loaded about a sixth of the image and consumed 2.18GB of RAM
22:38:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i also have these:,%2026.%20Feb%201934.png
22:39:44  <Eddi|zuHause> or this one:,%207.%20Maer%201930-2.png
22:40:26  <Svish> hm, my giant one takes 20 mb... would take a while to upload with this bandwidth :S
22:41:13  <KingJ> It loaded it, but any operations took quite a while to take effect. Seems to be swapping loads. Need more RAM :P
22:41:34  <Eddi|zuHause> and this one is almost famous:,%2017.%20Okt%201981.png
22:42:22  <Svish> reason for more ram: transport tycoon... didn't see that coming :p
22:42:34  <KingJ> haha Svish
22:42:45  <KingJ> Especailly when the original OTTD needed 16mb I think
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22:43:26  <KingJ> No, 4mb - just checked my old CD case
22:43:32  <Svish> nice
22:43:38  <Svish> i don't have the original... =/
22:44:15  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it used 4MB
22:44:27  <Eddi|zuHause> it showed the memory usage in the about box
22:44:33  <Svish> aha
22:44:43  <Svish> hm... openttd doesnt
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22:45:27  <Eddi|zuHause> this one is a good shot:,%2021.%20Sep%201956.png
22:45:58  <KingJ> Just uploading a few screenshots from my current game
22:46:13  <KingJ>
22:46:27  <KingJ>
22:47:15  <Eddi|zuHause> what a load of uglyness :p
22:47:24  <KingJ> :p
22:47:32  <KingJ> I prefer that over scenic routes
22:47:38  <Eddi|zuHause> interesting resolution, though ;)
22:47:44  <KingJ> At least I don't completely destroy the towns :p
22:47:55  <KingJ> Yeah, I can't get any more throughput on those stations
22:48:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i meant the screen resolution
22:48:50  <KingJ> oh
22:49:11  <KingJ> Running in windowed mode on a 1920x1200 monitor
22:50:47  <KingJ> Running a month old build of Cargodist, seems to have a few odd quirks such as passenger numbers fluctuating by several tens of thousands sometimes
22:51:23  *** Markk [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:51:53  <KingJ> But it a bit of a giant game, 148 stations, 750 odd trains plus assorted road vehs. Not a large game by OTTD standards but when you throw in the overhead of cargo routing...
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23:02:28  <dragonhorseboy> jonty-comp you still around?
23:09:15  * dragonhorseboy pokes jonty-comp :p
23:12:45  <dragonhorseboy> :/
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23:49:22  <oskari89> Hahaha :DDD
23:49:33  <dragonhorseboy> ?
23:50:56  <Eddi|zuHause> random outburst 1 hour after anyone last said anything... what's confusing about that? :p
23:51:31  <oskari89> You'll see shortly :)
23:53:34  <oskari89> Compare this one to this one:
23:54:23  <dragonhorseboy> heh
23:54:32  <dragonhorseboy> well the real bus isn't actually over any rails yet :p
23:54:56  <oskari89> No, but had the barrier on it's top :)
23:57:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't get the connection...
23:57:42  <dragonhorseboy> me neither
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23:59:44  <PeterT> did you already know that the giant screenshot option is bugged
23:59:55  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
23:59:59  <PeterT> ok

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