Log for #openttd on 5th July 2009:
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00:26:05  <ashchetum> back!
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04:41:43  <ashchetum> hi
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08:40:06  <andythenorth_> andythenorth is actually playing the game instead of drawing stuff for it.  Pretty good game by the way ;)
08:40:24  <Azrael-> i just lost the game :<
08:40:33  <Rubidium> what is this game you're talking about?
08:41:38  <andythenorth_> OpenTTD of course.  Is there another game?
08:42:17  <Chris_Booth> see andy that is a good question
08:42:25  <Chris_Booth> there are other games but IMO none as good
08:43:06  <Rubidium> is it a game? I thought it was a 100% realistic clone of reality
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08:48:46  <Alberth> nobody here has any experience w.r.t. being a transport tycoon in RL, so what the program shows, may be real
08:49:55  <andythenorth_> Alberth: speak for yourself, I am currently playing from the bridge of one of my 47 merchant ships.
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08:54:48  <Alberth> any real tycoon would not be at the bridge of his ships, he would live and work in the pent-house of his sky scraper
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11:18:36  <gleeb> 09:48 < Alberth> nobody here has any experience w.r.t. being a transport tycoon in RL, so what the program shows, may be real
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11:18:49  <gleeb> ^^ Sounds like the railways here in the UK.
11:19:31  * frosch123 just learned that planetmaker is the tycoon
11:20:07  <planetmaker> :P
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11:54:57  <planetmaker> how would I go, if I have a savegame where I want to change two companies from AI to human?
11:55:31  <planetmaker> e.g. I want to keep the companies, but I want to get rid of the AI.
11:59:20  <Alberth> buy them out?
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12:01:04  <dadymax> Hi pplz. Did anyone knows what symtax of ingame script language?
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12:01:44  <gleeb> There isn't one, unless you mean for making AIs?
12:01:57  <dadymax> nope, no AI.
12:02:09  <gleeb> Then there isn't one, I'm afraid.
12:02:09  <dadymax> I mean files in .\scripts dir
12:02:15  <gleeb> Oh, hrm.
12:04:00  <gleeb> By the looks of things, it's basically just dumping commands to the console.
12:04:34  <dadymax> for ex.: I want to write scripr with alias "say_client 1 SOME TEXT" but SOME TEXT must be in quotes and it will conflict with quotes of alias :(
12:05:13  <dadymax> and one more problem
12:05:38  <dadymax> in-game console. I write :  exec my_script
12:05:57  <dadymax> and answer - cannot find script
12:05:58  <dadymax> :(
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12:08:12  <dadymax> Can you try do this action? Maybe trouble in my PC... )))
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12:57:56  <planetmaker> [13:57]	<Alberth>	buy them out? <-- not quite what I want. I want them to become independent human companies :)
12:59:03  <Alberth> you cannot make a new company, then buy the AI out? (and repeat that twice)
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12:59:27  <Alberth> otherwise I don't know.
12:59:50  <planetmaker> Hm... that's an idea :)
13:00:10  <planetmaker> it's anyway cheated to death :P
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13:20:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r16745 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#3011]: invalidate JoinStation window after removing item from the pool
13:22:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r16746 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp road_cmd.h town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: use Town::PostDestructor() instead of not very clean construct for invalidating nearest town for road tiles
13:23:00  <planetmaker> <-- Alberth that was the reason. You saved me :)
13:23:05  <planetmaker> thanks
13:25:03  <Alberth> screen looks nice
13:25:36  <planetmaker> That's the only intention of it :)
13:25:38  <planetmaker> thanks
13:25:59  <Ammler> planetmaker: the plane on the left, is that a glitch from your screen or the grf?
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13:26:03  <planetmaker> though it could use still more vehicles and stuff
13:27:08  <planetmaker> Ammler: which plane? The dinger XYZ?
13:27:25  <planetmaker> They look that strange
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13:28:55  <gleeb> There's something odd about that screenshot. It's all in foreign ?_?
13:29:07  <Alberth> the water at the right looks weird with the original set
13:29:18  <Alberth> gleeb: it's designed for OpenGFX
13:29:20  <planetmaker> :) That's the future :)
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13:29:34  <planetmaker> there's no single newgrf
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13:30:24  <gleeb> Alberth: I was referring to the text :P
13:31:11  <Ammler> Alberth: openttdw.grf could use the opengfx rivers.
13:31:13  <planetmaker> blue and red company are just at break even... :)
13:31:37  <Ammler> at least the river boarders
13:31:42  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and you couldn't have made an ingame screenshot?
13:31:59  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I could. But then the titlescreen layout wouldn't be visible.
13:32:34  <planetmaker> and yes, I forgot to cut the menu bar :)
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13:33:31  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the problem is that non-ingame screenshots will be 24bpp and thus probably bigger
13:33:47  <planetmaker> you're right, I guess.
13:33:50  <Ammler> planetmaker: drive-through road stops?
13:33:58  <planetmaker> But the important thing is title screen
13:34:00  <planetmaker> Ammler: yes
13:34:07  <Ammler> where?
13:34:15  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the important thing is my bandwidth :p
13:34:45  <planetmaker> Ammler: below the yellow monorail station in town is a blue one
13:34:55  <gleeb> If you're worried about your bandwidth, your ISP sucks.
13:35:30  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it could also be that the opengfx landscape is more noisy
13:35:41  <Eddi|zuHause> my screenshots tend to be around 500k
13:35:48  <Eddi|zuHause> and they are higher resolution
13:35:49  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: no idea. But most probable that's 24bpp
13:35:50  <Ammler> planetmaker: behind the black box?
13:36:04  <planetmaker> Ammler: no. Just SW of it. Adjacent
13:36:27  <planetmaker> but behind the black box might be another. I don't recall :)
13:36:57  <planetmaker> but granted, they could be more prominent
13:36:58  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: well, it shouldn't matter that much, if of those 2^24, only 256 different values are used
13:37:14  <Eddi|zuHause> plus a little garbage from the title bar
13:37:21  <gleeb> I dislike the black boxes ?_?
13:37:25  <Ammler> planetmaker: maybe you could make the monorail 2way
13:37:35  <Ammler> and show pbs feature :-)
13:37:35  <planetmaker> I thought of it.
13:37:46  <planetmaker> Ammler: maglev uses it.
13:37:49  <planetmaker> also two-way
13:38:23  <planetmaker> and the normal rail uses path signals, too
13:38:27  <Ammler> hmm, I see oneway signals there
13:38:40  <planetmaker> Ammler: where?
13:38:51  <planetmaker> ah, yes, but the station uses path signals.
13:39:21  <planetmaker> and is through and terminus at the same time
13:39:51  <planetmaker> but making the monorail 2-way might look nicer, yes
13:40:04  <planetmaker> little space there, though
13:41:22  <Ammler> would be nice to have a situation where to trains cross without signals
13:41:33  <Ammler> w*
13:42:13  <planetmaker> hm... true
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13:44:45  <planetmaker> ok, I guess the blue dtrs has to move a bit :)
13:44:52  <Ammler> he, wouldn't it be nice, if the title screen changes, if you switch the clima?
13:44:55  <planetmaker> then that's possible for monorail
13:45:07  <planetmaker> well... that's something else.
13:45:20  <planetmaker> I just think that OpenTTD deserves a new one by now :)
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13:47:19  <Ammler> you should also try your map with smaller resolution
13:47:31  <Eddi|zuHause> and bigger
13:47:42  <planetmaker> Smaller is not the big problem IMO
13:47:47  <Ammler> it might look booring on north
13:47:52  <planetmaker> Bigger will show a bit more boring borders :)
13:48:13  <planetmaker> Yes, the map still needs improvement :)
13:49:36  <planetmaker> and any hints for improvement are welcome
13:50:32  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you should design at least for 1920x1180
13:50:58  <Eddi|zuHause> and try to make it not completely boring for people with two screens
13:51:05  <planetmaker> Yes, I guess :) But I have no monitor with more than 1024 in y :)
13:51:18  <planetmaker> Though I can test 2560 x 1024
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13:52:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a suggestion: when making a screenshot in zoomed-out state, make a zoomed-in screenshot of the visible area
13:52:15  <planetmaker> hu?
13:52:23  <Eddi|zuHause> like a not-entirely-huge screenshot
13:52:52  <Eddi|zuHause> to make a screenshot of a larger area than fits on the screen
13:53:14  <planetmaker> yeah, good idea. Just zooming out one step or so
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13:53:43  <Eddi|zuHause> like, if you have x1/2 zoom, and make a screenshot, make a zoomed-in screenshot of twice the size in each direction
13:54:59  <Eddi|zuHause> basically, do a giant screenshot, but not of the entire map, but of the area delimited by the four corners of the screen
13:56:01  <planetmaker> right
13:56:50  <planetmaker> But then... one can do a giant screenshot :)
13:56:57  <planetmaker> It's 256^2
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13:59:17  <Eddi|zuHause> but on a 2048^2 ther is nothing inbetween
13:59:39  <planetmaker> :)
14:02:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i often wanted to make like a "panorama view" of a larger area
14:02:52  <Eddi|zuHause> but there is simply no way other than to make 4 screenshots and gluing them together somehow
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14:26:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16747 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix: Non-resized windows also need a post re-init SetDirty.
14:37:10  <fonsinchen> Is it possible to download older versions of AIs from Bananas? I suspect Admiral v19 is crashing a specific cargodist save game, but I can't find v19 anymore.
14:37:34  <Alberth> in the forum thread perhaps?
14:38:22  <fonsinchen> I think Yexo replaced the file.
14:38:36  <fonsinchen> So I'd need a specific file handle, which I don't have
14:38:37  <Alberth> ask the author :)
14:41:23  <SmatZ> bah, 4RN4 is too long level :-x
14:46:25  <gleeb> I hate cargodist ?_?
14:46:47  <gleeb> It's stolen so many hours of my life, and I've STILL not figured out what the numbers and graphs mean.
14:46:55  <gleeb> Damn it for being so awesome ?_?
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14:49:17  <fonsinchen> It's not that hard to understand the numbers in the smallmap. Granted, there is no legend yet. But it's simply usage/capacity:sent/planned
14:50:37  <fonsinchen> usage is the number of cargo units counted at the receiving end of the link, sent is the number counted at the sending end. capacity is obvious and planned is the number of cargo units that should be sent that way.
14:52:12  <fonsinchen> ah, and the graphs: grey=usage, white=capacity, red=planned, yellow=sent
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15:01:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16748 /trunk/src/fios.cpp: -Codechange: Don't cast away constness.
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15:36:31  <Ammler> If I use "rescan files" on the newgrf gui, shouldn't that have same effect as if I restart openttd?
15:37:15  <Ammler> I don't need to rescan to load the newgrf, but it still does show the old title.
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15:37:33  <Ammler> new newgrf*
15:39:55  <Xaroth> doesn't rescan onyl check for new files?
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15:54:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16749 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Rail toolbar uses nested widget tree only.
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16:08:47  <planetmaker> Alberth: sounds like you're now slowly removing the old widget handling?
16:09:44  <Ammler> Xaroth: seems so, you still need to restart openttd
16:09:45  <Alberth> no, just removing *use* of the old widget handling :p
16:09:55  <planetmaker> ok :P
16:10:07  <planetmaker> one after the other, of course :)
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16:10:42  <Alberth> I hope so, there are quite a few nasty windows out there
16:10:54  <planetmaker> so now in principle I could go w/o the old way in new patches?
16:15:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r16750 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix: mark the intro gui dirty when changing the difficulty level to avoid glitches on the difficulty button
16:15:25  <Alberth> for completely new windows? yes
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16:26:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16751 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Fix (r16740): Do not crash when using a non-standard font size in the widgets.
16:27:41  <Alberth> planetmaker: basically, you may not change state of the window or the widgets in OnPaint()
16:28:12  <Alberth> many existing window do that unfortunately, a lot of work to fix
16:30:42  <Alberth> planetmaker: so the proper way for existing windows is to clean up the OnPaint(), then you can switch to nested widgets only, and make the changes for the patch
16:31:03  <Alberth> oh, and death to all hard-coded offsets and sizes :)
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16:36:38  <planetmaker> hehe, yes :)
16:36:43  <planetmaker> Ok, sounds good.
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16:37:38  <planetmaker> And yes, I meant a completely new window (or rather a complete re-write of one, the newgrf gui selection) :)
16:39:03  <ashchetum> I fixed ottd, I figured out this funny command: sudo chmod -R 0777 /usr/share/games/openttd/data/
16:39:24  <Alberth> If OnPaint() just contains "this->DrawWidgets();"  painting is good :)
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16:39:42  <Yexo> ashchetum: that's not fixing, that's applying a hack because you don't read readme.txt
16:40:09  <ashchetum> not a hack, It wouldlnt work eitherwise
16:40:32  <Yexo> moving the data/ directory to ~/.openttd/ would be a better solution
16:41:24  <ashchetum> If it makes a difference, I was using linux, what you proprosed would mess it up more
16:42:18  <Yexo> why would that mess it up more?
16:42:23  <Alberth> ashchetum: no, it doesn't. It is generally bad to have world-writable data at a central place.
16:43:12  <Yexo> you can also have some of the grf files under /usr/share/games/openttd/data/ (for example the ttd grfs, put there by root, not writeable by world), then put all user-downloaded grfs in ~/.openttd/data
16:43:43  <ashchetum> Generaly bad, but it made it much easyer to add grf's and whatnot, before I did this openttd could not read the file
16:44:37  <ashchetum> I had a whole lot of permission problems, and this is the only fix I found to work.
16:45:27  <Alberth> ashchetum: no it doesn't fix the permissions, if you download new files, you will have the same problems again
16:46:48  <ashchetum> no I wont, now that I made the folder full permissions, It will work fine. Besides, I don't need to add any more, the ottdcoop pack covers almost everything.
16:48:14  <Alberth> if you download a new file, it will get your default access rights, which is not world-readable with 99% chance. So another user cannot read your loaded file.
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16:49:41  <Alberth> and good luck with your system
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16:51:08  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r16752 /trunk/src/ (airport_gui.cpp cheat_gui.cpp date.cpp): -Codechange: Remove most of the window-changing code from AirportPickerWindow::OnPaint
16:55:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r16753 /trunk/src/intro_gui.cpp: -Fix (r16740): Don't check the width of the same string 4 times, but pick the maximum width of all difficulty levels
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17:17:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r16754 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
17:17:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:17:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 2 changes by kasakg
17:17:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 64 changes by josesun
17:17:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 4 changes by planetmaker
17:17:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: persian - 2 changes by Gajet9
17:21:17  * TrueBrain comes home, hits the volume button of his 2.0 music system, notices the little button saying: active bass, hits it ... and sits to enjoy it
17:21:22  <TrueBrain> I doubt my neighbours enjoy it as much as I do
17:21:23  <TrueBrain> details
17:22:10  <TrueBrain> (I might not have a subwoofer; I do have 2x 150W bass and 2x 30W trebble in a 'normal' pair of boxes :p)
17:22:12  <TrueBrain> hello all!! :)
17:22:33  <Yexo> hello TrueBrain
17:22:41  * Yexo is glad not to be your neighbour :p
17:23:02  <TrueBrain> I forgot the volume this set could produce :)
17:24:16  *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc
17:24:21  <TrueBrain> I guess it can function as active noise filter ... no way you can hear any noise now :p
17:25:16  <petern> active bass mangler, eh?
17:25:33  <TrueBrain> boxes don't reach below 200 Hz .. that is sad :(
17:26:06  <petern> what is it?
17:26:43  <TrueBrain> dunno .. my best guess it amplifies < 1 KHz
17:26:46  <TrueBrain> feels like that :p
17:26:58  <planetmaker> o_O this un-teachable ach...-guy was here again. I see you had fun :P
17:27:33  <petern> my speakers only go down to 50 Hz
17:27:39  <TrueBrain> 'only' :p
17:27:40  <TrueBrain> lol
17:27:55  <TrueBrain> okay, I ordered a set which claims to reach 20 Hz
17:28:00  <TrueBrain> dunno if I believe it
17:28:07  <petern> what set? heh
17:28:25  <oskari89> Heh. You can test it with sound signal generator program :)
17:28:30  <TrueBrain> Teufel 5.1 set, nothing special :p
17:28:38  <TrueBrain> oskari89: no worries, I will :)
17:28:42  <petern> oh
17:28:46  <petern> yuck
17:29:01  <TrueBrain> in the old days I did parties, and I have this CD marked: bass-test
17:29:08  <TrueBrain> it ... tests bass :p
17:29:23  <petern> i test bass with my keyboard and a synth, heh
17:30:12  <TrueBrain> although I have to say a few songs of System of a Down beats any basstest :p
17:30:28  <Yexo> planetmaker: I've already given up on helping him, after just a few minutes
17:30:29  <TrueBrain> petern: why yuck?
17:30:37  <oskari89> "oomph-oomph" :)
17:30:53  <petern> it's all about tinny, and yes, oomph oomph
17:33:54  <TrueBrain> lol, neighbour comes to complain .. bah
17:34:18  <planetmaker> Yexo: the only sane choice. We've seen it yesterday already
17:34:19  <petern> tell them it's not your bass, yours only goes to 200Hz
17:34:49  <TrueBrain> it wasn't my car who hit that person, I only drive a Panda!
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17:36:37  * petern ponders a 60cm deep and high, 360W, 20-80Hz subwoofer
17:36:57  <TrueBrain> depends on the size of your room
17:37:05  <petern> nowhere near enough :)
17:37:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't need a subwoofer
17:37:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a tuba :p
17:37:48  <TrueBrain> LOL! Nice Eddi|zuHause ;)
17:38:18  <petern> oh, 30Hz
17:38:33  <TrueBrain> everything below 50Hz is not music anywa y:p
17:39:23  <Eddi|zuHause> infrasound can have influence on your mood ;)
17:39:31  <TrueBrain> lol
17:39:36  <TrueBrain> infrared light too :p
17:39:41  <Eddi|zuHause> no really
17:39:46  <TrueBrain> I am serious too :)
17:39:49  <Eddi|zuHause> it's done sometimes in churches
17:40:15  <petern> lies
17:40:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the ear doesn't notice it, but the body can feel the sound
17:40:29  <petern> a standard double bass goes down to 41Hz
17:40:43  <petern> a five string double bass goes down to 31Hz
17:41:45  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: in a good way or in a bad?
17:42:24  <Eddi|zuHause> more into the fear direction, i believe
17:42:27  <TrueBrain> "Infrasound has been known to cause feelings of awe or fear in humans.[16][17] Since it is not consciously perceived, it can make people feel vaguely that supernatural events are taking place."
17:42:33  <TrueBrain> (wikipedia, if you dare to believe that)
17:42:53  <TrueBrain> I only know low freq sounds can give the feeling of disorientation
17:43:18  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the ear cannot properly trace the origin of deep tones
17:43:33  <Chruker> :-)
17:43:38  <TrueBrain> Chruker: lies!
17:43:49  <TrueBrain> (I wonder what wikipedia says about the brown note)
17:45:39  <TrueBrain> lol, 10Hz at 153 dB ... lol :)
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18:47:14  <Xaroth> Rubidium: android version plx? :P
18:47:30  * Xaroth just got a HTC magic.. hrr hrr
18:48:05  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: why don't you become our porter to Android?
18:48:14  <TrueBrain> (like it would be playable on those systems, but okay)
18:48:18  <Xaroth> TrueBrain: 1) wb? 2) eh?
18:48:29  <Xaroth> You assume I can actually code C/C++ :P
18:48:43  *** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC
18:48:43  <TrueBrain> I assume you can learn
18:48:44  <Xaroth> I'm a C# person :P
18:48:46  <TrueBrain> and have a brain
18:48:47  <Xaroth> well true
18:48:47  <TrueBrain> and more of that :p
18:49:06  <planetmaker> 1:0 for TrueBrain :P
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