Config
Log for #openttd on 21st July 2009:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:01  <OwenS> It is
00:00:12  <OwenS> Grub 1 is EOL, but Grub 2 is in development
00:01:05  <OwenS> Last commit was 4 hours ago according to my server's mirror, though I forgot how often the cron runs
00:03:57  *** Chruker [~no@0x5da34ce4.vjnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit []
00:04:48  <OwenS> Of course Grub2 isn't quite ready yet, but Grub1 is stable anyway
00:05:18  <Tefad> what good timing
00:05:41  <Tefad> i'm trying to chainload linux with kboot...
00:06:06  <Tefad> isolinux->linux->kboot->grub->linux
00:06:09  <Tefad> that's my goal anyway
00:06:30  <Tefad> i'm thinking grub may not be realized
00:07:25  <OwenS> huh? Why would you chainload grub?
00:09:11  <Tefad> so the underlying OS doesn't get as confused
00:09:21  <Tefad> i'm trying to make it transparent.. but i don't think that's easy.
00:09:30  <Tefad> i'll just have to reconfig kboot each time
00:09:56  <Tefad> the problem is i have an old laptop i want to boot from USB, but the OS lies on a real disk
00:12:56  <OwenS> Side note: Anyone noticed any black holes arround after the impossible event of MS contributing code to the Linux kernel?
00:13:31  <DJ-Burtybob> Night all catch ya laters
00:14:30  <Jolteon> OwenS: they did what now?
00:14:46  <OwenS> Contributed some drivers to Linux
00:15:01  <OwenS> It's hardly benevolent; It's simply drivers to make it run better on Hyper-V, but still
00:15:40  *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-123-9.nrth.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tsch?ss]
00:16:37  <Tefad> they realized that people actually use linux
00:16:46  <Jolteon> shock
00:17:07  <Tefad> so they impoved linux in such away their VM software competitive with that of others.. eg VMware
00:17:22  <Tefad> i accidentally the verb.
00:21:34  *** DJ-Burtybob [burtybob@92.22.75.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:24:33  *** Tekky [~chatzilla@DSL01.83.171.168.115.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.1/20090715094852]]
00:46:42  *** Zorni [~zorn@e177239063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
00:47:33  *** OwenS [~oshepherd@host86-145-221-7.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:54:21  *** Zorn [~zorn@e177236026.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:02:34  *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@94.76.226.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:06:22  *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x3ef3a198.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:06:50  *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@94.76.226.86] has joined #openttd
01:33:50  *** Yrol [~Yrol@BAF2bd1.baf.pppool.de] has joined #openttd
01:34:09  *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
01:35:55  <Yrol> hello everybody :o) i followed the instructions given there  : http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_MinGW but when i try to do gcc -v, it gives me an error ( sh: gcc: command not found ). how can i solve that problem?
01:36:48  *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@94.76.226.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:37:02  *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@94.76.226.86] has joined #openttd
01:38:49  *** Cow [Cameron@S01060019d1ae9476.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd
01:39:01  <Cow> hello?
01:39:44  <Yrol> hello cow
01:39:48  <Cow> hi
01:40:25  <Cow> im playing IS2 beta 3
01:44:14  *** Cow [Cameron@S01060019d1ae9476.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
01:54:17  *** oskari89 [oskari89@88.193.124.243] has quit [Quit: Utm Aœ - Aja 35]
01:59:31  <Eddi|zuHause> that is interesting to know.
01:59:51  <Yrol> Eddi|zuHause? maybe you can help me with my problem?
02:00:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Yrol: you put msys/bin and mingw/bin in your %path%?
02:00:49  <Eddi|zuHause> (directory names may differ)
02:01:38  <Yrol> (Eddi|zuHause) no, it wasnt written in the instructions. i will do that now
02:04:43  <Eddi|zuHause> if it helps, add that to the wiki
02:06:09  <Yrol> ah, nice, nwo it works :o)
02:06:56  <Yrol> hmmm
02:08:15  *** ccfreak2k [ccfreak2k@li26-205.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: changing servers]
02:08:53  *** ccfreak2k [ccfreak2k@li26-205.members.linode.com] has joined #openttd
02:09:09  *** Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> resistance.oftc.net quits: DaleStan, Tefad, eleusis, roboboy, Lachie, N35, Bergee, CIA-2, Ridayah, SirSquidness,  (+8 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
02:10:18  *** Netsplit over, joins: roboboy, @orudge`, @Belugas, DaleStan, Lachie, ccfreak2k, stuffcorpse, Dragoon_Jett, CIA-2, eleusis (+8 more)
02:10:18  <Yrol> "Place wget-1.9.1-mingwPORT.tar.bz2 in a folder (e.g. /home)." of which folder should /home be a subfolder?
02:10:44  <Eddi|zuHause> /home is a unix-style folder
02:10:53  <Eddi|zuHause> it is a subdirectory of /
02:11:06  <Eddi|zuHause> typically it's /home/username
02:11:16  <Eddi|zuHause> or "~"
02:11:32  <Yrol> but... "This page contains guidelines for compiling OpenTTD in Win32 with MinGW" why does it include instructions for unix then?
02:11:58  <Eddi|zuHause> because mingw emulates a unix environment (and thus also unix paths?)
02:12:31  *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: ????????]
02:12:36  <Eddi|zuHause> if you open a msys console, you should automatically start in ~
02:12:51  <Yrol> so the answer would be ""place it into a folder called "home" which you created in C:\mingw""?
02:13:22  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... no... i think it's part of the msys directory
02:13:40  <Yrol> aaah, there.
02:13:42  <Eddi|zuHause> but it says "any path"...
02:14:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Yrol: for most purposes, / is the msys directory
02:14:48  <Eddi|zuHause> you'll find typical unix paths such as /usr, /bin, /home, etc. there
02:15:00  <Yrol> i see. im just trying to, without any background-knowledge, following that guide and get a working environment to compile openttd.
02:19:56  <Yrol> hmmm. here is the next error. "cp wget.exe /usr/local/bin
02:20:20  <Yrol>  at compiling wget, step 4 results in a "cp: cannot create regular file `usr/local/bin': No such file or directory" - error
02:22:30  *** MizardX- [MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
02:23:09  *** MizardX [MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
02:23:30  *** MizardX- is now known as MizardX
02:24:46  <Eddi|zuHause> that one is simple, just create the directory
02:24:52  <Eddi|zuHause> and also, add that to the wiki
02:25:06  *** mode/#openttd [+v orudge`] by ChanServ
02:25:09  *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ
02:25:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm going to bed
02:27:02  <Yrol> mmh,. good night :o(
02:29:54  *** Yrol [~Yrol@BAF2bd1.baf.pppool.de] has quit [Quit: MOOOOOOOOOO?????]
02:51:13  *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has left #openttd []
02:53:43  *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host86-171-245-188.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:53:47  *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c98d:35a6:1071:b0a1] has quit [Quit: bye]
02:59:44  *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Quit: leaving]
03:07:42  *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:09:05  *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd
03:12:11  *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
03:15:32  *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:22:40  *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Quit: leaving]
03:38:28  *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:38:30  *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd
03:41:26  *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-8-82-230-2-115.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:42:31  *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
04:29:21  *** paul_ [~paul@host86-140-69-225.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
04:30:59  *** paul__ [~paul@94.76.226.86] has joined #openttd
04:36:27  *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@94.76.226.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:37:52  *** mib_bour5sqb [1815fcdb@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
04:37:59  *** paul_ [~paul@host86-140-69-225.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:38:36  *** mib_bour5sqb [1815fcdb@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit []
04:38:51  *** mib_fz8rlsnh [1815fcdb@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
04:39:00  <mib_fz8rlsnh> hi
04:39:06  <mib_fz8rlsnh> is anyone on
04:39:52  <mib_fz8rlsnh> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo there no one here too i have gone to 20 irc channels and no one was on in any of them
04:40:36  *** mib_fz8rlsnh [1815fcdb@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit []
05:02:03  *** nfc [nfc@cable-hvk-fe7ede00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
05:14:42  *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has joined #openttd
05:50:59  *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:58:23  *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd
06:13:11  *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B61A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
06:15:25  *** Xyzzy [c40fc9c9@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
06:15:38  *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B61A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:28:15  *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
06:33:00  <planetmaker> Is there a reason to NOT use company colours when drawing houses?
06:33:11  <planetmaker> and good morning #openttd :-)
06:33:26  <Noldo> morning!
06:33:57  <planetmaker> :-)
06:51:44  *** Progman [~progman@hep-1.E-Technik.Uni-Dortmund.DE] has joined #openttd
07:38:56  *** Markk [~markk@rikskriminalen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:52:22  *** reldred [~reldred@115.131.210.217] has joined #openttd
08:56:20  *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
09:08:50  *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd
09:14:15  *** Progman [~progman@hep-1.E-Technik.Uni-Dortmund.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:14:26  *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has joined #openttd
09:15:12  *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:25:03  *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
09:25:52  *** tokai [~tokai@p54B814DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:28:00  *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80DDC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
09:28:03  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
09:38:19  *** elmex [elmex@ist.m8geil.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:41:37  *** elmex [elmex@ist.m8geil.de] has joined #openttd
09:50:56  *** Dartteri [dartteri@idler.fi] has joined #openttd
09:54:29  *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE9ec2.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd
10:02:57  *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd
10:04:25  *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
10:14:29  *** Progman [~progman@hep-1.E-Technik.Uni-Dortmund.DE] has joined #openttd
10:15:36  *** Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd
10:18:56  *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:18:59  <Dartteri> oh yes, and why I joined...
10:19:06  <Dartteri> I got this one version og openttd, dadacafe's special,
10:19:06  <Dartteri>                        where time runs on 1/10 basis compared to normal
10:19:07  <Dartteri>                        version. Is that configurable to 0.7.1?
10:19:23  <Dartteri> oops, sorry for bad lining
10:19:51  <Dartteri>  I got this one version og openttd, dadacafe's special, where time runs on 1/10 basis compared to normal version. Is that configurable to 0.7.1?
10:20:23  <Alberth> no, there is a daytime length patch in the forums that you seem to be using
10:21:04  <Dartteri> thanks, that's the keyword. I'll start looking.
10:26:13  *** Dred_furst [~Dred@user-514c420a.l3.c5.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd
10:27:44  * TrueBrain waves good morning
10:28:34  * Alberth waves back
10:29:28  *** reldred1 [~reldred@115.131.210.217] has joined #openttd
10:31:49  <Ammler> hehe, good after noon
10:31:54  *** reldred [~reldred@115.131.210.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:36:10  *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.20.232.184] has joined #openttd
10:46:46  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r16895 /trunk/src/dock_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Build dock window uses nested widget tree.
10:47:19  *** el[cube] [~eleusis@124-169-151-153.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd
10:49:09  *** eleusis [~eleusis@124-169-134-89.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:55:36  <TrueBrain> sjoep sjoep
10:55:50  <Dartteri> Alberth, thank you, found it.
10:56:25  <Alberth> oke, have fun with it
10:58:02  <Dartteri> daylength 10, income over $ 10 mil in the end of first "year"
10:58:23  <Ammler> Terken is trying to convert daylength patch to grfs, quite silly, but maybe an alternative for you.
10:58:43  <Ammler> something like "milenium converstion"
10:58:51  *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
10:59:23  <Dartteri> im not much of a coder
11:01:54  <Dartteri> o, you mean to try the conversion.
11:02:05  <Dartteri> maybe ill have a look on it
11:02:37  *** DJ-Burtybob [burtybob@92.22.75.113] has joined #openttd
11:06:53  *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has joined #openttd
11:11:18  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16896 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: make station spec allocation and station animation functions work for both stations and waypoints
11:14:02  *** hadas [~hadas@ip-89-102-202-163.karneval.cz] has joined #openttd
11:16:33  *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
11:17:10  <hadas> cauta I wanted to ask the new graphics can be downloaded via the game or have downloaded from the Internet and if teda from the Internet to download it when you where I got to give, please help me
11:17:45  <TrueBrain> you sense no make do not
11:17:53  <hadas> And another thing i do not know Canadian English that google: D
11:19:04  <TrueBrain> hadas: my best guess of what you are asking: try the Online Content button in any recent release (0.7.1 if possible)
11:20:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16897 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use the 'generic' station spec to station allocation for waypoints too
11:22:46  <hadas> my regards opengfx-0.1.0-alpha5 If you must download it manually or just from the game
11:22:48  *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
11:23:09  <Alberth> either will do
11:23:47  <Alberth> from in-game is the easiest
11:26:47  *** OwenS [~oshepherd@host86-145-221-7.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
11:27:13  <hadas> so to override the automatic download to
11:29:25  *** Zahl [~Zahl@f051184162.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
11:30:42  <Alberth> override?  what do you mean?
11:31:05  <TrueBrain> I love google translate :(
11:31:28  <Alberth> start the game, press 'online content', select OpenGFX, click download, click ok, select OpenGFX graphics base set
11:31:40  <Alberth> TrueBrain: I reminds me of obiwan speak :)
11:32:35  * DJ-Burtybob wonders if people read the description of OpenGFX before download.... Espiecally to do with black boxes for undone sprites
11:32:54  <Alberth> assume no
11:33:35  <SmatZ> people never read anything
11:33:43  <SmatZ> just search for the "OK" button
11:33:45  <SmatZ> if needed
11:33:51  <SmatZ> or "Close"
11:34:14  <SmatZ> how else can you explain threads like this http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=44276
11:34:18  <SmatZ> and many bugreports
11:34:33  <SmatZ> from people who changed GRF confing and then complained the game crashed
11:35:17  <Ammler> :-)
11:37:32  <DJ-Burtybob> lol
11:38:25  <Alberth> except it is reality
11:40:28  <DJ-Burtybob> There are bug reports that are open from 3years ago :S
11:41:19  <Alberth> some are very difficult or very big, or both
11:41:23  <Ammler> SmatZ: it is indeed a bit suboptimal to ship openttd with default setting to use ai's but no warning until you have already started the game.
11:42:01  <hadas> <Alberth> So to turn out new graphics and to download and complete?
11:42:43  <Alberth> hadas: no idea what you are saying.
11:43:05  <Alberth> did you download the OpenGFX graphics yet?
11:46:43  <hadas> yes
11:47:44  *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DE473.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:47:52  <Alberth> ok. Open the game options window. At the bottom you can select OpenGFX graphics. Close the window. Done!
11:49:19  *** CIA-2 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:49:51  <hadas> I have a new graphics there already but I will update when it was retrieved via the game?
11:52:16  <hadas> is there cze?
11:53:35  *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:19d5:6c8c:f1cb:a280] has joined #openttd
11:53:38  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
11:53:54  *** paul__ [~paul@94.76.226.86] has left #openttd [Leaving]
11:54:06  *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@94.76.226.86] has joined #openttd
11:54:25  <SmatZ> hadas: are you using google translate?
11:54:34  <SmatZ> or some other automatic translation tool :)
11:54:38  <SmatZ> you can ask me in PM
11:54:39  <hadas> yes
11:54:44  <hadas> google
11:57:11  *** CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd
12:07:01  *** Zahl [~Zahl@f051184162.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: *schiel*]
12:10:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16898 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Station build window uses nested widget tree.
12:11:49  *** hadas [~hadas@ip-89-102-202-163.karneval.cz] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
12:12:57  *** ddfreyne [~ddfreyne@stoneship.org] has joined #openttd
12:14:42  <ddfreyne> Hi. I have a question about the web translator: is the web translator open-source? I've been working on a similar system for personal usage but abandoned it because of the massive amount of work
12:15:10  <ddfreyne> And the reason why I started writing my own is that I haven't found any good open-source web translator apps yet
12:16:14  *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DE473.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:18:15  <TrueBrain> ddfreyne: we noticed that to, so we wrote our own (and did finish it :p :p)
12:18:24  <TrueBrain> it most likely will be open sourced in the near future
12:18:28  *** KUDr [~doctor@203.253.broadband9.iol.cz] has joined #openttd
12:18:52  <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: sweet
12:18:59  <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: what language/framework is it written in?
12:19:05  <TrueBrain> Python, Django
12:19:12  <ddfreyne> ah nice
12:19:30  <ddfreyne> I'm more of a Ruby guy but I've played with Python and Django before
12:19:40  <TrueBrain> Ruby language sucks ass
12:19:45  <TrueBrain> stupid Perl based syntax
12:19:50  <TrueBrain> <very long line here> if false
12:19:52  <OwenS> Django is sweet. Just a horrible RAM hog
12:19:53  <TrueBrain> yeah ... :'(
12:20:05  <TrueBrain> OwenS: WT3 uses 10 MB at its peek usage
12:20:12  <TrueBrain> so .... it really depends on your way of writing in it :p
12:20:34  <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: well, you can write terribly ugly code in ruby, but I'm sure you can do the same in Python if you tried :)
12:21:10  <TrueBrain> problem is that the Rails framework already uses that terribly ugly code :p
12:21:14  <OwenS> Python has the funny X if Y else Z syntax though :p
12:21:16  <TrueBrain> unless version > 1.0
12:21:21  <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: i don't like rails
12:21:22  <TrueBrain> what is wrong with 'if version <= 1.0'?
12:21:54  *** FauxFaux [faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:22:18  <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: yeah 'unless' isn't really necessary... sometimes it can be a bit cleaner but more often than not it's confusing
12:22:19  <OwenS> Hmm, Django's RAM usage has decreased a lot on my server since I last checked. Perhaps it's been optimized a lot
12:22:30  <ddfreyne> "unless !foo.nil?" -- wait, what?
12:22:37  <TrueBrain> ddfreyne: exactly
12:22:43  <TrueBrain> so I stopped using ruby after 20 minutes :p
12:23:03  <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: but "do_it unless already_done" makes sense
12:23:16  <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: no offense, but then you haven't used ruby long enough to make such judgements :)
12:23:32  <TrueBrain> ddfreyne: I was so annoyed by those Perl-like syntaxes
12:23:45  <TrueBrain> it made code I was trying to read so unreadable :(
12:24:00  <ddfreyne> I started writing Python... learned it because I had to write a chat client for a proprietary chat system that had no linux client... took me a few days to learn python... and i was in love
12:24:03  <TrueBrain> a b c d ... do you mean a(b, c, d) or a(b(c(d))), or WHAT?! :p
12:24:24  <TrueBrain> I hate Python for its tabs ... it is so hard to see where things start and end over a long function :(
12:24:28  <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: that is valid syntax, but ruby will warn you about that... and nobody actually writes code like that
12:24:33  <TrueBrain> but the rest works rather well :)
12:24:38  <TrueBrain> ddfreyne: check Rails code :p
12:25:30  <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: try running a rails app with -w on (enable all warnings)...
12:25:40  <Belugas> hello
12:25:45  <TrueBrain> howdie Belugas :)
12:25:50  <TrueBrain> ddfreyne: somehow .. I tihnk .. I don't want to :p
12:25:51  <glx> morning Belugas
12:25:54  *** tdev [~udev@p508EC1BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
12:25:58  <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: yup :)
12:26:11  <DJ-Burtybob> hey Belugas
12:26:15  <ddfreyne> hi Belugas
12:26:51  *** KUDr [~doctor@203.253.broadband9.iol.cz] has quit []
12:26:52  *** Spoons [faux@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #openttd
12:26:56  <Belugas> ho Belugas
12:27:03  <Belugas> hue Belugas
12:27:15  <Belugas> ... and it's only morning!
12:27:18  <ddfreyne> saturation Belugas
12:28:10  <Belugas> naaaa... distorsion Belugas!
12:28:31  <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: I usually have warnings turned on, but I turn them off when I do rails development (which is not often... I only do it for the money, heh)
12:29:38  <TrueBrain> either way, ddfreyne, WT3.0 will be closed source for ever. But WT3 got some nice attention from various of open source projects, so I will start working on WT3.1 soon
12:29:44  <TrueBrain> which has gettext support from the ground up ;)
12:30:25  <DJ-Burtybob> how bout realsing WT2 under OpenSource?
12:30:28  <ddfreyne> aw... why the decision not to make it open-source?
12:30:43  <TrueBrain> no real reason .. just not needed :p
12:30:53  <TrueBrain> DJ-Burtybob: WT2 is not mine, nor OpenTTDs
12:31:19  <DJ-Burtybob> ahhh... was it off the shelf system?
12:31:25  <TrueBrain> nope
12:33:12  <Belugas> it was a system made from ground up, by someone in our organization, but done in such a way that it was extremely linked to OpenTTD structure
12:33:43  <Belugas> plus, since it was not done with the idea of potential distribution, the "security" of it was not seriously addressed
12:34:06  <Belugas> whooo.... was i serious for a moment?
12:34:15  * TrueBrain hugs Belugas
12:34:52  * Belugas shakes off the dust of seriousness (hem... what????)
12:35:04  * Belugas hugs tight TrueBrain and feels a pickle!
12:36:15  <TrueBrain> yeah, sorry, my lipstick
12:36:39  <Belugas> :D
12:36:57  <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: ah well... would have been nice to be able to use it, especially since I'm need for such a system (currently using a wiki, but that's much less than ideal)
12:37:06  <TrueBrain> what translation file?
12:38:47  <ddfreyne> would have been nice to be able to use WT3 in general, I mean...
12:39:20  <TrueBrain> what I mean, is what you use in the backend for language files?
12:39:21  * Belugas turns his head clockwise to fully appreciate that new representation of the three dots
12:39:24  <TrueBrain> as wiki seems a bit weird ;)
12:39:49  <ddfreyne> more specifically, I'm the webmaster for http://mystonline.com/ which has recently become a multi-language site... the site needs to be updated every once in a while and so the translations will need to be updated as well
12:40:07  <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: no 'standard' format per se; just text files that are compiled into HTML pages
12:40:27  <ddfreyne> so the wiki contents are copy-pasted (yuck) into those text files
12:40:46  <ddfreyne> as you can see, this process could and should certainly be automated...
12:41:10  <TrueBrain> haha
12:41:11  <ddfreyne> but at the moment it's mostly manual labour (at least managing the translations is; compiling the site itself is not)
12:41:22  <TrueBrain> I doubt WT3 could be of any help there :p
12:41:35  <TrueBrain> we are going to use it for openttd.org (the website)
12:41:38  <TrueBrain> but that goes via gettext
12:42:07  <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: well, I see WT3 has an API which could be used to fetch the translated texts... am I right?
12:42:33  <ddfreyne> (http://translator.openttd.org/en/api)
12:43:15  <ddfreyne> but I can't really give WT3 a try since I'm not a translator (and I don't intend to become an OpenTTD translator... no offense :))
12:43:23  <TrueBrain> hehe
12:43:32  <ddfreyne> besides, the Dutch translation is already complete, and I know about several Dutch-speaking people in here
12:44:06  <yorick> but the dutch translation is a bit strange
12:44:15  <TrueBrain> what WT3 is, it reads a backend format (gettext, openttd language files, ...)
12:44:21  <TrueBrain> and gives that via an API to translators
12:44:25  <TrueBrain> and in our case, a frontend
12:44:34  <TrueBrain> WT3 then exports to that backend format to be published
12:46:45  <TrueBrain> so depending on that format, I don't know if WT3 can be of any use to you ddfreyne :p
12:46:55  <ddfreyne> TrueBrain: Hmm... so how are the actual translations done? Translations are done using the web interface, am I right?
12:47:05  <TrueBrain> yup
12:47:13  <TrueBrain> use the login I gave you to see how it is done :p
12:49:28  <ddfreyne> as far as backend formats go... changing the format should be fairly easy
12:49:43  <TrueBrain> I would suggest gettext for websites
12:49:48  <TrueBrain> fairly simple, many tools
12:49:54  <TrueBrain> just a bit slow :p
12:50:04  <glx> and for any sane application too ;)
12:50:13  <ddfreyne> yep...
12:50:14  <TrueBrain> glx: gettext is no option for OpenTTD :p
12:50:20  <TrueBrain> absolute lack of cases and genders :p
12:50:24  <glx> I know
12:50:37  <tdev> ddfreyne: see http://communitytranslate.org
12:50:38  <OwenS> catgets is always fun :p
12:50:44  <ddfreyne> what does openttd use as backend format?
12:50:54  <glx> it's own format
12:51:11  <tdev> ddfreyne: i can setup a project for you there
12:51:12  <TrueBrain> tdev: VERY ugly :p
12:51:16  <tdev> haha xD
12:51:27  <TrueBrain> and slow :s
12:51:28  <tdev> it shouldnt be fancy, but functional
12:51:31  <TrueBrain> I pressed View/Edit .....
12:51:37  <TrueBrain> tdev: then I tihnk WT3 does a better job
12:51:37  <ddfreyne> tdev: looks like it's in a very early stage... how far along is it?
12:51:56  <ddfreyne> and I agree, it should be functional rather than fancy
12:52:08  <glx> TrueBrain: when is planed "branches" support for WT3 ?
12:52:15  <TrueBrain> glx: WT3.1
12:52:22  <TrueBrain> needs a bit of backend changes
12:52:51  <glx> ok
12:52:57  <tdev> ddfreyne: im no web designer but the system is in use and fully functional
12:53:11  <tdev> and its slow since i have not added DB caching yet
12:53:13  <ddfreyne> http://localhostr.com/files/568da3/translizzator_documents_overview.png is what my system looks like
12:53:15  <TrueBrain> looks like one of our earlier WTs :p
12:53:26  <tdev> lol
12:53:28  <TrueBrain> tdev: it is slow because you show ALL strings on a single page
12:53:29  <glx> WT2 was in use and functional ;)
12:53:31  <tdev> looks more fancy ;)
12:53:33  <TrueBrain> which is silly
12:53:39  <tdev> TrueBrain: right ;)
12:53:54  <TrueBrain> tdev: I suggest moving to WT3.1 when I finish it :p :p
12:54:01  <tdev> lol
12:54:02  <welshdragon> TrueBrain: please reset my translator password. kthnxbal
12:54:20  <ddfreyne> tdev: I am using http://github.com/pilu/web-app-theme/tree/master as the theme for my app... it is MIT licenced and it is great for starting a web app without having to worry about the look at all
12:54:21  <TrueBrain> ddfreyne: haha, nice use of a system :)
12:55:06  <TrueBrain> welshdragon: sure ... if you had an account
12:55:09  <tdev> uhm, there was a system that pwns all self written langauge things
12:55:15  <tdev> *language
12:55:16  <welshdragon> TrueBrain: i did
12:55:22  <welshdragon> with translator2
12:55:26  <TrueBrain> yeah ... read your email
12:55:33  <TrueBrain> or you should have made sure that email was still valid
12:55:45  <welshdragon> It is
12:55:48  <glx> you need to create an account on openttd.org
12:55:54  <TrueBrain> then you should have read your email
12:55:56  <tdev> http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/
12:56:03  <tdev> it was called pootle
12:56:25  <TrueBrain> tdev: btw, I was serious :p
12:56:42  <tdev> TrueBrain: i am not familiar with your system
12:57:04  <TrueBrain> it does the same, only faster, more smooth, and more user-friendly
12:57:09  <TrueBrain> (and, much more intuitive
12:57:15  <TrueBrain> and yes, more fancy :p
12:57:24  *** oskari89 [oskari89@dsl-kpobrasgw1-ff7cc100-243.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
12:57:41  <tdev> haha ;)
12:57:51  <tdev> what font do you use on your website?
12:57:55  <tdev> is it open source?
12:58:03  <glx> and all WT2 users are in love with WT3 :)
12:58:03  <tdev> how is the user authentication handled?
12:58:07  <TrueBrain> no idea ... WT3 is loaded in the openttd.org layout (which is in SVN)
12:58:23  <TrueBrain> (how does font ever matter? :p)
12:58:41  <ddfreyne> what font? where?
12:58:43  <welshdragon> TrueBrain: i get redirected to the editing afrikaans page
12:58:45  <TrueBrain> user authentication is handled how ever needed; WT3 keeps its own table which is linked to something bigger
12:58:51  <welshdragon> (after signing in)
12:58:53  <tdev> 14:58| <TrueBrain> (how does font ever matter? :p)
12:58:54  <ddfreyne> welshdragon: pick a language in the top right menu
12:58:56  <TrueBrain> welshdragon: one last time: read your email
12:58:57  <tdev> it does matter a lot
12:59:06  <TrueBrain> if you didn't get it, email the Translator Manager
12:59:17  <OwenS> My biggest nightmare is apps which assume they can display their own login page. In my case they can't - I redirect everyone off to an SSO system...
12:59:37  <tdev> ^
12:59:43  * ddfreyne uses OpenID
12:59:51  <TrueBrain> tdev: only saying it matters, doesn't make it so :) A reason why would be nice :p
12:59:57  <TrueBrain> as I haven't had a single complain about fonts :p
13:00:11  <tdev> TrueBrain: just searching the links *continues searching*
13:00:32  <tdev> TrueBrain: we are using the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitstream_Cyberbit font
13:00:42  <tdev> which implement big parts of the unicode range
13:00:43  <OwenS> My SSO system uses either it's own login or OpenID
13:00:50  <tdev> and that font is used ingame as well
13:01:04  <glx> tdev: fonts are a browser thing, not a site thing
13:01:06  <tdev> so you can see what it is looking like
13:01:15  <TrueBrain> tdev: a, like that
13:01:18  <TrueBrain> well, WT3 doesn't skin
13:01:28  <TrueBrain> it gives you a tool, an API, and a frontend example (not styled)
13:01:32  <TrueBrain> you can style it how ever you like
13:01:35  <TrueBrain> even without CSS it is usable
13:01:38  <TrueBrain> (it only requires JS)
13:01:49  <TrueBrain> in theory, the API even allows ingame query and changing :p
13:01:59  <tdev> glx: i added the fonts via CSS (or i dont get your statement)
13:02:01  <welshdragon> TrueBrain: after 14 days my emails get deleted
13:02:31  <welshdragon> i forgot to flag theopenttd one as do not delete
13:02:32  <tdev> so why not use pootle instead, a well established translation engine?
13:02:32  <ddfreyne> welshdragon: you never keep your e-mails?
13:02:35  <TrueBrain> LOL! Cool feature ... can I suggest using an other email provider?
13:02:47  <TrueBrain> tdev: have you SEEN the sites? :p
13:03:00  <welshdragon> TrueBrain: it's my choice
13:03:10  <welshdragon> i was getting 300 messages/day spam
13:03:36  <tdev> TrueBrain: http://pootle.colivre.coop.br/de/
13:03:40  <tdev> looks functional for me
13:03:50  <TrueBrain> there is more in the world then 'functional'
13:03:55  <TrueBrain> I suggest checking out WT3
13:03:59  *** DJ-Burtybob [burtybob@92.22.75.113] has quit []
13:04:14  <tdev> so you want to reinvent the wheel then? ;)
13:04:26  <TrueBrain> WT2 was what pootle is
13:04:33  <TrueBrain> now check WT3, before you continue talking ;)
13:04:46  <tdev> link?
13:04:48  <TrueBrain> it is like saying to linux: reinventing the wheel? (refering to Windows)
13:04:51  <SmatZ> yes
13:04:52  <TrueBrain> http://translator.openttd.org
13:05:20  <TrueBrain> either signup for an account (free, no strings attached)
13:05:23  <TrueBrain> or ask me for a test-account
13:05:34  <glx> tdev: the browser is not forced to use the font you specify in CSS (if it doesn't have it)
13:06:21  <tdev> TrueBrain: i signed up, but got no permissions
13:06:40  <TrueBrain> http://translator.openttd.org/en/edit
13:06:43  <TrueBrain> you maybe have to sign the ToS
13:06:46  <TrueBrain> (click, Accept)
13:06:46  <tdev> glx: sure i just said that its the ideas solution to see how it lookts ingame :)
13:06:50  <TrueBrain> then you get read-only access
13:06:52  *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-8-82-230-2-115.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd
13:06:54  <TrueBrain> gives you a good enough idea of the system
13:07:14  <welshdragon> TrueBrain: you have email
13:07:17  <tdev> "Editing Afrikaans"
13:07:24  <TrueBrain> welshdragon: I don't, but that doesn't matter :p
13:07:30  <glx> tdev: use the dropdown :)
13:07:30  <TrueBrain> tdev: right top corner, you can select other languages
13:07:58  <tdev> user friendly ;)
13:08:19  <TrueBrain> he didn't just say that, did he? :p
13:08:31  <tdev> :p
13:08:45  <tdev> what the heck is m/w/n/p translation?
13:08:51  <TrueBrain> cases, typical OpenTTD
13:09:18  <OwenS> Hey, does anyone know how to enforce a mount order in fstab?
13:09:27  <TrueBrain> OwenS: the order it is in
13:09:28  <yorick> OwenS: top to bottom?
13:09:33  <OwenS> I thought that was the case
13:09:42  <tdev> TrueBrain: good work on that system :)