Log for #openttd on 2nd August 2009:
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00:44:53  <DaleStan> Rubidium: Does your system need -D__CYGWIN__? Mine is fine as long as I have both -DMINGW and -mno-cygwin.
00:45:19  <Rubidium> DaleStan: yes, after I uninstalled gcc4 and installed gcc3
00:45:40  <Rubidium> it fixes the linking issue I was having
00:46:32  <DaleStan> *shrugs* OK. I'll put it in, then.
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00:49:14  <Rubidium> I'll do a final check whether maybe MINGW added enough so __CYGWIN__ isn't needed
00:50:03  <Rubidium> hmm, MINGW does the trick too... odd
00:50:19  <Rubidium> so __CYGWIN__ isn't needed after all
00:50:55  <Rubidium> what does -DMINGW do for magic that it does the same as __CYGWIN__ for linking?
00:51:35  * Rubidium is so happy that he doesn't have to support the windows compilers for OpenTTD ;)
00:51:46  <DaleStan> Well, the code uses MINGW/_MSC_VER/<none-of-the-above> to decide which files to #include; maybe one of them #defines __CYGWIN__?
00:52:03  <Rubidium> that's plausible
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01:11:55  <Rubidium> DaleStan: is there a reason that grfcodec's %.os : %.c rule uses -MD and the %.o : %.c(c) rules use -MMD? Or are they meant to be the same?
01:12:09  <DaleStan> I think they're meant to be the same.
01:14:04  * Rubidium is off trying to get some sleep; night
01:15:02  <DaleStan> The Makefile changes should be committed by the time you get up, then.
01:15:08  <DaleStan> Good night.
01:15:24  <DaleStan> And thanks again for your work, Rubidium.
01:15:48  <Dragoon_Jett> For trains climbing mountains would it be faster for the train to climb two levels at once or  two levels and lets say four sqaures inbeteen each height changes
01:16:29  <DaleStan> I've always been fond of the "try it and see" system. May I recommend it to you?
01:16:43  <Dragoon_Jett> Hmm yes that works too
01:16:58  <Dragoon_Jett> So when I want to see if wood burns should I trust other people or just try it?
01:17:39  <Dragoon_Jett> Ive never seen a gun kill someone should I try it, or trust the news and other peoples knowledge
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01:18:47  <DaleStan> Depends on whether or not you want to know whether or not wood in general burns (Do train climb slopes?) or whether that particular log will burn well. (Which slope is climbed faster?)
01:19:01  <Dragoon_Jett> Which slope is climbed faster
01:19:19  <Dragoon_Jett> For trains climbing mountains would it be faster for the train to climb two levels at once or  two levels and lets say four sqaures inbeteen each height changes
01:19:24  <Dragoon_Jett> climbing mountains would it be faster for the train to climb two levels
01:19:29  <Dragoon_Jett> would it be faster for the train
01:19:32  <Dragoon_Jett> faster
01:20:06  <DaleStan> Then try it and see. I can't tell you if a log I have never seen will burn well, and I can't determine the results of an experiment I've never performed any faster than you can.
01:20:52  <Dragoon_Jett> Thanks, I will ask when a bunch of pricks are not on.
01:21:43  <DaleStan> Or you could try it again when you have a Smart Question:
01:22:48  <Dragoon_Jett> Choose your forum carefully
01:22:58  <Dragoon_Jett> Oh yes well since I am on IRC and dont have a forums account
01:23:03  <Dragoon_Jett> Web and IRC forums directed towards newbies often give the quickest response
01:23:15  <Dragoon_Jett> Oh look the only irc channel I know of for openttd
01:23:30  <Dragoon_Jett> Write in clear, grammatical, correctly-spelled language
01:23:32  <Dragoon_Jett> Did that
01:23:40  <Dragoon_Jett> Describe the problem's symptoms, not your guesses
01:23:42  <Dragoon_Jett> Did that
01:23:49  <Dragoon_Jett> Describe the goal, not the step
01:23:50  <Dragoon_Jett> Did that
01:24:28  <Dragoon_Jett> It would have been quicker to say, hey just level some land between the hight changes or no dont
01:24:36  <Dragoon_Jett> Than trying to prove a stupid point
01:25:44  <DaleStan> It would have been faster for me to start OpenTTD, build two trains, build some track, send them up the track, record the results, and repeat for every possible train length and weight?
01:25:47  <DaleStan> How do you figure?
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01:27:35  <Dragoon_Jett> No...Not really
01:28:20  <Dragoon_Jett> Since I have different weights different trains etc etc going along that track and trying it would well I THOUGHT it would be quicker to just ask some veterns
01:28:34  <Dragoon_Jett> Than disrupt my trains
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06:21:27  <planetmaker> DaleStan: compiling grfcodec: cc1plus: error: -MG may only be used with -M or -MM
06:22:08  <planetmaker> for both, gcc 4.0.1 and gcc 4.5
06:23:20  <planetmaker> on a mac
06:35:30  <DaleStan> If you remove the -MG from Makefile:229, :233, and :252 (But not any of the *.d rules), does that fix things?
06:36:11  <DaleStan> I think that should do the trick, but I don't have gcc 4 installed.
06:36:48  <DaleStan> planetmaker: ^
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07:17:46  <planetmaker> DaleStan: yes, removing it only in that line suffices
07:17:52  <planetmaker> *lines
07:19:36  <DaleStan> Good.
07:21:19  <DaleStan> ... And bother. I failed to audit my changes before committing them. Oh, well. It's not worth the hassle of backing them out.
07:22:30  <planetmaker> hm... I have now (again) a problem with boost...
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07:23:39  <planetmaker> I get "make: *** No rule to make target `boost/date_time/gregorian/gregorian_types.hpp', needed by `readinfo.o'.  Stop."
07:24:07  <planetmaker> but in Makefile.local "BOOST_INCLUDE = /Users/ingo/Download/boost_1_39_0"
07:24:20  <DaleStan> rm readinfo.o.d && make
07:24:35  <planetmaker> shouldn't make clean then do the trick?
07:25:02  <planetmaker> well, but yes, it works :-)
07:25:05  <DaleStan> clean should, but that'll delete all sorts of other things that don't need cleaning.
07:25:09  <planetmaker> thanks
07:25:15  <DaleStan> The new readinfo.o.d shouldn't have any reference to the boost headers.
07:25:33  <planetmaker> no boost anymore?
07:26:27  <planetmaker> he. make clean doesn't delete *.d
07:26:40  <DaleStan> No, I just informed gcc that boost qualifies as a system header, and that system headers aren't to be mentioned.
07:26:43  <planetmaker> ^ that's why make cleanfailed
07:26:45  <planetmaker> I guess
07:27:08  <planetmaker> aeolusreloaded:~/ottd/grfdev/grfcodec ingo$ make clean
07:27:10  <planetmaker> rm -rf *.o *.os *.bin grfcodec grfdiff grfmerge bundle bundles
07:27:33  <DaleStan> Ah. Yes. I was getting annoyed always rebuilding *.o.d when switching between -mcygwin and -mno-cygwin.
07:28:16  <planetmaker> deleting them sounds like a good idea, though :-)
07:28:33  <DaleStan> mrproper will delete *.o.d
07:28:39  <planetmaker> or maybe adding another target like proper... ok
07:29:23  <DaleStan> It will also delete everything else except *.local that's not under version control. Or it should, anyway.
07:30:38  <planetmaker> Just for curiosity: is that distinction between clean and mrproper some kind of standard or convention?
07:31:14  <planetmaker> that said... I still have a lot of files which svn st shows as ? after mrproper
07:31:54  <planetmaker> rm -f *.d .rev version.h grfmrg.c version.h.tmp <-- but I guess that suffices
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07:32:05  <DaleStan> OK, "All files possibly generated by make that are not under version control, including ignored files"
07:32:07  <DaleStan> I copied it from ttdpatch. So probably not.
07:32:36  <planetmaker> ah :-)
07:33:08  <planetmaker> btw, what about an additional target like "install"
07:33:25  <planetmaker> which then installs the binaries in the proper path (set in Makefile.local)?
07:33:56  <planetmaker> I could provide a patch which does that, even with some intelligence concerning paths on mac and linux.
07:34:00  <planetmaker> windows is... difficult
07:34:23  <planetmaker> there's no such thing as a default binary path there.
07:35:03  <DaleStan> C:\windows is always in the path, AFAIK. But I can fiddle with that.
07:35:16  <planetmaker> as every time I built the binaries I usually do a sudo cp <binary> /usr/local/bin
07:41:03  <planetmaker> hm... my OS detection depends on - again - "uname -s".
07:42:18  <planetmaker> I guess $(EXE) could be re-used, though
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07:49:09  <planetmaker> DaleStan: <-- diff for grfcodec
07:50:56  <planetmaker> DaleStan: <-- better that. I forgot to svn up. And the -MG is still in there
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07:54:50  <DaleStan> Then there's the Cygwin and MinGW question: Do I install for Windows, or only for the hosted Linux work-like?
07:55:05  <andythenorth> morning
07:55:47  <planetmaker> morning andythenorth
07:55:49  <DaleStan> I guess I need to see if I can figure out how to access the host with MinGW.
07:55:54  <DaleStan> Morning.
07:56:03  <andythenorth> I am working out a range for ship sizes.
07:56:10  <andythenorth> Smallest useful size?  10t?  20t?
07:56:12  <planetmaker> DaleStan: well... having it accessible in both is best, I guess.
07:56:41  <planetmaker> but I'm using - when in my windows VM - the usual dos command line. And there I just have the usual windows paths (+ mingw / msys)
07:56:59  <DaleStan> Except in the case where Cygwin builds a binary that won't run outside of Cygwin. That case is obvious.
07:57:12  <planetmaker> having it thus in the cygwin / mingw binary path will do as it's then available under windows, too
07:57:26  <planetmaker> ah, ok. I haven't used cygwin. So I didn't know
07:58:13  <OsteHovel> I feel that Mingw is a better way than Cygwin becouse you need the cygwin dll's
07:58:16  <planetmaker> andythenorth: I commited some changes to fish, so that it is sort-of configured
07:58:27  <andythenorth> planetmaker: thanks
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07:58:45  <planetmaker> andythenorth: you could just start to add code to header.pnfo and / or add additional pnfos in ids.pnfo
07:58:58  <planetmaker> It might also need adjustment of the grf name etc
07:59:02  <planetmaker> but that should be obvious
07:59:19  <planetmaker> I just put in something which ... makes a little sense, but not too much ;-)
07:59:51  <Rubidium> morning
08:00:02  <planetmaker> moin Rubidium
08:00:06  <andythenorth> morning
08:00:18  <andythenorth> largest useful ship size?  I am thinking 1200t
08:00:38  <planetmaker> would be huge but for a starter sounds reasonable.
08:00:42  <planetmaker> after all ships are large
08:00:55  <Rubidium> looks like DaleStan committed in time for the compile run
08:01:09  <planetmaker> :-)
08:01:17  <planetmaker> that's about now soon?
08:01:38  <Rubidium> 05:37 <@DorpsGek> CompileFarm: grfcodec (r2167) completed.
08:01:38  <Rubidium> 06:12 <@DorpsGek> CompileFarm: nforenum (r2168) completed.
08:01:49  <Rubidium> so ~4 hours ago
08:01:56  <planetmaker> ah :-)
08:03:06  <OsteHovel> Can someone be so nice for me and tell me the big diffrence between 0.7 and 0.7.2?
08:03:29  <DaleStan> Have you read the changelog?
08:04:17  <OsteHovel> Nope
08:04:18  <OsteHovel> ;P
08:04:36  <OsteHovel> Are it posible to read it withouth dling the packaes or source?
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08:04:53  <OsteHovel> (im on a mobile connection right now and it aint realy fast...)
08:05:13  <planetmaker> OsteHovel: yes, it is. Go to
08:05:29  <Rubidium> OsteHovel: you never noticed the "changelog" link on the download page?
08:07:57  <OsteHovel> nope i havent, im sorry for asking a so STUPID question
08:08:15  <OsteHovel> (and i forgot that i  just can use "svn changelog" in console(im using linux)
08:08:48  <Rubidium> planetmaker: can you test whether and work with rosetta?
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08:10:25  <planetmaker> both segfault
08:10:33  <OsteHovel> ;( thats a bad thing
08:11:00  <Rubidium> planetmaker: hmm, also with a simple '-h' ?
08:11:19  <planetmaker> have to check. I just unpacked and double clicked the binary
08:11:46  <planetmaker> renum, yes
08:12:00  <Rubidium> planetmaker: does work? (to rule out the compiler)
08:14:30  <planetmaker> Rubidium: that openttd binary successfully loaded one of my savegames
08:15:53  <Rubidium> hmm, guess I need someone with a real PPC proc and OSX to test the grfcodec/nforenum binaries ;)
08:17:30  <planetmaker> he :-P
08:17:36  <Alberth> good morning
08:17:46  <planetmaker> moin Alberth
08:18:28  <Alberth> you replied and my desktop crashed :p
08:18:56  <planetmaker> har har. Damn. Installation of root kit didn't go unnoticed.
08:23:12  <Rubidium> planetmaker: do the PPC nforenum/grfcodec binaries from OTTDcoop work for you?
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08:23:28  <planetmaker> Rubidium: sure. I compiled them
08:23:42  <Rubidium> planetmaker: but they run in rosetta?
08:23:43  <planetmaker> on this computer. But andythenorth told me that they don't work for him
08:24:45  <planetmaker> What was it again how I could tell?
08:25:14  <planetmaker> I mean... why should they, if I'm on an intel machine...
08:26:21  <OsteHovel> If you need to test OSX binaries on a real PPC aint it posible to use a Emualtor?(If noone got a PPC machine)
08:26:28  <OsteHovel> *Emulator
08:26:41  <Rubidium> OsteHovel: OSX doesn't like emulators
08:26:49  <planetmaker> OsteHovel: Rosetta IS the emulator... kind of
08:27:17  <OsteHovel> You got a Intel MAC?
08:27:21  <planetmaker> yes
08:27:27  <Rubidium> so andythenorth ... you're using a PPC Mac?
08:27:41  <andythenorth> ^ no, intel
08:27:50  <planetmaker> I guess it was 10.4 vs .10.5 issue with libraries
08:28:07  <Rubidium> bummer...
08:28:14  <Rubidium> where's Bjarni when you need him
08:28:16  <planetmaker> dihedral: should have one
08:28:44  <planetmaker> a G4 macbook wasn't available with intel processor
08:29:11  <planetmaker> where's dihedral when one could need him? ;-)
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08:32:25  <OsteHovel> Always when you need somebody they not there
08:33:14  <planetmaker> andythenorth: but as you have another system... you might want to try nevertheless. Maybe both, Rubidium and mine, the latest ones.
08:34:14  <andythenorth> I have Leopard 10.5.7 on a 2.5 intel core duo 2 - if that's any help??
08:34:41  <planetmaker> at least I'd like to know whether the dmg might work for you which I produced yesterday
08:34:45  <Rubidium> planetmaker: talking about testing Intel or PPC binaries?
08:34:59  <planetmaker> both :-)
08:35:27  <planetmaker> In the case of your binaries: whether the ppc one works. In case of mine: whether bundle_dmg levies the library issues
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08:35:44  <Rubidium> <- PPC with gcc 4.2, <- PPC with gcc 4.0
08:36:06  <Rubidium> <- Intel with gcc 4.0
08:36:25  <planetmaker> <-- the dmg I produced.
08:41:00  <OsteHovel> Do someone here know how to test IPv6 connectivity becouse i got a server connected directly to internet so it got both a IPv4 and IPv6 adress, how can i test IPv6?
08:41:24  <Rubidium> OsteHovel: step 1) download openttd-trunk
08:41:52  <OsteHovel> thats not hard
08:42:00  <Rubidium> step 2) open the multiplayer window and see if "AutoNightly IPv6 Server / EoD" is there
08:42:04  <OsteHovel> ok ;D
08:42:58  <Rubidium> or whether you see an unresolved IPv6 address in the list
08:44:16  <Rubidium> (I can't connect to it at the moment so for me it shows up as an unresolved IPv6 address)
08:45:01  <Rubidium> oh, another thing is: go to If the logo (the $) says IPv6 next to is you're using IPv6
08:45:24  <Rubidium> or ping6
08:48:39  <OsteHovel> ok
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08:56:59  <OsteHovel> I diddent work ;( with ping6
08:57:17  <Rubidium> then you're likely not using IPv6
08:57:33  <OsteHovel> that was i touth too
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09:12:31  <OsteHovel> Yeee
09:12:35  <OsteHovel> I got it worrking
09:12:50  <OsteHovel> Using Hurricane Electric's free IPv6 Tunneling
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09:17:01  <Rubidium> salut Yexo
09:17:13  <Yexo> morning Rubidium
09:17:52  <planetmaker> moin Yexo
09:19:04  <Yexo> hi planetmaker
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09:38:43  <planetmaker> hm...
09:38:55  <planetmaker> error 404 when I tried to log in into translator
09:39:20  <planetmaker> or rather when I entered my credentials, the next page showing was the 404
09:40:38  <planetmaker> but obviously I entered the correct credentials as the website shows me as logged in and after going to development and then clicking on webtranslator, I don't need to log in
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09:46:06  <TrueBrain> [00:39] <Eddi|zuHause> a friend had an article about reviving graphics cards by putting them into the oven at 100?C for 30 minutes, could that work with mainboards, too? <- omg ... he didn't really say that, did he? :s :p :p
09:46:19  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: known, browser fucking up redirecting .. shit happens :)
09:46:39  <planetmaker> he... ok. I added a FS entry right this moment
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10:24:07  <frosch123> hmm, fireworks at 12:25 :s
10:24:43  <Rubidium> yeah, why not?
10:24:55  <Rubidium> otherwise it wakes the elderly
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10:41:07  <TrueBrain> ARGH! Why does my speaker set pickup a radio station
10:41:09  <TrueBrain> why :(
10:41:13  <TrueBrain> it is fucking annoying
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10:43:04  <LadyHawk> lmao
10:43:14  <LadyHawk> i had that in holland
10:43:27  <LadyHawk> like very quiet music going through your speakers for no reason
10:43:53  <TrueBrain> the reason why is very simple
10:43:56  <TrueBrain> the soluton ... much less
10:44:04  <TrueBrain> I wish they would stop doing analog transmissions :p
10:44:29  <LadyHawk> ah =P
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10:51:15  <valhallasw> TrueBrain: increase the output volume on your computer and decrease it on your speaker set? :P
10:52:11  <TrueBrain> valhallasw: it doesn't depend on the volume of my amp
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10:52:24  <TrueBrain> it runs on its own power :p Stupid airwaves :p
10:52:55  <valhallasw> oh, the pickup happens in the speaker cables?
10:53:26  <valhallasw> sounds reasonable as the input cables are probably shielded :P
10:53:43  <TrueBrain> input is fiber :p
10:54:07  <valhallasw> right :P
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10:59:24  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17031 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (airports.pcx flags.pcx openttdgui.pcx): [OTTD_GRF] -Fix: warnings about pure white sprites; make them 'unpure' white (FCFCFC)
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11:27:20  <TrueBrain> there is a fly on my screen - oh no, it is my mouse
11:30:42  <frosch123> never smash something on your screen
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11:33:10  <TrueBrain> OsteHovel: can you make up your mind? Staying or not? :)
11:40:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17032 /extra/ottd_grf/ (COPYING split/openttd.nfo): [OTTD_GRF] -Fix: make it more clear how the GRFs are licensed (if it would be downloaded as something separate)
11:41:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17033 /extra/ottd_grf/ (Makefile split/shore.nfo):
11:41:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [OTTD_GRF] -Fix: grfcodec warning about number of sprites (0 instead of X) by using nforenum
11:41:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [OTTD_GRF] -Fix: nforenum warning about wrong number of sprites for shores; it's a special-special case, so disable the warning
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11:44:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17034 /trunk/bin/data/ (5 files): -Update: openttd[dw].grf from ottd grf.
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12:06:23  <TrueBrain> @kban OsteHovel 60 please come back if you have the intentions to stay; thank you.
12:06:24  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
12:06:24  *** OsteHovel was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [please come back if you have the intentions to stay; thank you.]
12:07:26  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!] by DorpsGek
12:11:33  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: WT3.1 is going to have support for adding cases, right?
12:11:47  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I sure hope so :)
12:11:50  <TrueBrain> oh, I forgot to tell you
12:11:56  <TrueBrain> I redirected a user to you to add him a case
12:12:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17035 /trunk/src/lang/turkish.txt: -Add: case to Turkish
12:12:17  <Rubidium> didn't know you redirected him ;)
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12:12:29  <TrueBrain> now you do ;)
12:12:40  <OsteHovel^PDA> Ye i found out the client was useless
12:12:49  <OsteHovel^PDA> using another one now
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12:13:58  <TrueBrain> from 1:09 to 0:44
12:14:06  <TrueBrain> it is getting into an acceptable range, my import :)
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12:17:17  <OsteHovel^PDA> I hope i diddent cause too much damage
12:19:07  <valhallasw> nah, just a dozen joins/parts :p
12:19:25  <valhallasw> parts and/or quits
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12:34:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r17036 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Split price bases from economy.cpp to table/pricebase.h.
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12:37:15  *** OsteHovel^EEE is now known as OsteHovel^Atom
12:37:59  <OsteHovel^Atom> What IRC clients do you guys use? (I use Xchat on windows & Linux, and PocketIRC on Windows Mobile)
12:41:02  <xmakina> OsteHovel^Atom: mIRC
12:41:11  <OsteHovel^Atom> ;D
12:41:23  <TrueBrain> why would one even want to use IRC on its mobile ..
12:41:34  <OsteHovel^Atom> Ooo long time since i update last time, that was back in march
12:42:03  <OsteHovel^Atom> (when you have a pda with keyboard and unlimited data plan you need have something to do sometimes)
12:42:25  <TrueBrain> it is the most useless invention, as your connection drops more often than apples fall from a tree
12:42:30  <OsteHovel^Atom> Hmm
12:42:34  <OsteHovel^Atom> That depend on what client you use
12:42:35  <OsteHovel^Atom> ;p
12:42:50  <OsteHovel^Atom> I was testing out Talkonaut with XMPP gateway IRC ;P
12:42:54  <OsteHovel^Atom> and that dident whent so good
12:43:10  <TrueBrain> next time, test on some other channel, and don't bug us with your endless joins and leaves
12:43:15  <OsteHovel^Atom> true
12:43:20  <OsteHovel^Atom> it will not be a nexttime
12:43:46  <OsteHovel^Atom> the problem what that i coudent see that i even was leaving/joining this channel it was like i was into it all the time
12:44:37  <OsteHovel^Atom> But it was useless anyway so, im back to the good old PocketIRC that never reconnects if it loses its connection but it does not loose its connection often either(only when your battery runs out))
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12:45:33  <OsteHovel^Atom> (compiinging the newest trunk of svn on my sucky laptop that has a 1.6 ghz cpu, and it takes AGES...)
12:45:43  <OsteHovel^Atom> (but its worth it becouse openttd is SOO GOOD)
12:47:44  <OsteHovel^Atom> Do the donated cash only go to hold the servers up and running or do some of it goes to the developer of this GOOD game?
12:48:01  <TrueBrain> for now it is only to keep our services up and running
12:48:12  <planetmaker> OsteHovel^Atom, xchat works here. Stable 24/7
12:48:33  <planetmaker> way more stable than firefox.
12:48:34  <OsteHovel^Atom> ;D xchat has never crashed for me ;D
12:48:37  <planetmaker> Or kde itself actually
12:48:40  <OsteHovel^Atom> hehe
12:48:44  <OsteHovel^Atom> way more stable the opera too
12:48:53  <OsteHovel^Atom> than*
12:49:14  <OsteHovel^Atom> gonna donate some of the cash i got left
12:51:08  <TrueBrain> much appreciated :)
12:51:53  <OsteHovel^Atom> (doante finished)
12:52:30  <planetmaker> I tried twice... I don't use paypal and they don't accept a credit card without registering at that damned company
12:52:38  <planetmaker> And I'll rather go to hell than register with paypal.
12:52:45  <OsteHovel^Atom> hehe
12:53:04  <OsteHovel^Atom> i use paypal and i got my credit card registered (i know its a bad company but it works)
12:53:21  <OsteHovel^Atom> tried Bank transfer ?
12:53:24  <planetmaker> I won't register there. Least with my credit card.
12:53:38  <planetmaker> Owen tried to always talk me into using that...
12:53:57  <planetmaker> ... insisting that it works without paypal account. But I didn't figure.
12:54:09  <xmakina> planetmaker - they can't recklessly steal your money - the most evil thing they do is freeze accounts linked to stolen credit cards
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12:54:14  <OsteHovel^Atom> what country do you live in?
12:54:18  <planetmaker> DE
12:54:21  <OsteHovel^Atom> hmm
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12:54:46  <planetmaker> xmakina, I don't care what they do. If I'm not a customer of them, they cannot do anything.
12:54:54  <OsteHovel^Atom> i did think they accepted withouth registered
12:55:02  <planetmaker> I just read enought that I know that I don't want business of any kind with them.
12:55:05  <OsteHovel^Atom> i only got my credit card(not debet) registered there
12:55:20  <OsteHovel^Atom> so i can get my money back if they even wanna to try to scam me
12:55:26  <planetmaker> OsteHovel^Atom, maybe it's a shortcoming on my part. But then I just didn't figure out how.
12:55:31  <OsteHovel^Atom> hmm
12:55:47  <OsteHovel^Atom> i will try to read on their complicated webpae
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12:57:02  <planetmaker> on the other hand, my bank is bad, too: I cannot do international money transfer online :-(
12:57:17  <planetmaker> I need to go there in person.
12:57:18  <OsteHovel^Atom> ;(
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12:57:57  <OsteHovel^Atom> And for registering your credit card at paypal also takes time
12:57:57  <OsteHovel^Atom> ;p
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