Log for #openttd on 17th August 2009:
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00:12:43  *** Roujin [] has joined #openttd
00:13:19  <Roujin> hello to any soul who might happen to be here at such a time
00:13:26  <OwenS> me :P
00:13:33  <OwenS> And hello
00:15:34  <Roujin> straight to the stupid question I was going to ask: is it a bad idea to quote (or fully use) the ending song of valve software's Portal in a NoAI that's going to be GPL'ed?
00:15:58  <glx> probably
00:16:11  <glx> anyway the cake is a lie
00:16:32  <Roujin> for both options "quote (partially)" and "fully use" ?
00:16:34  <OwenS> The cake is not a lie. But it is very squicky
00:16:52  <Roujin> and how probable is "probably", anyway? ;)
00:17:07  <glx> better not quote it at all
00:18:35  <OwenS> What would an AI need to quote it for anyway? O_o
00:18:35  <Roujin> aww, that's sad. Then I can't have my AI write "I'm still alive" in its main loop, because that would be a quote of that song?
00:18:35  <OwenS> Or is this AI called GLaDOS?
00:18:35  <Roujin> ;)
00:18:35  <OwenS> I'm still alive would be fine - probably noncopyrightable and at the least fair use :p
00:18:35  <Roujin> OwenS: haha, no, but that's an awesome idea ^^
00:18:49  <OwenS> Your intention was to have it slowly quote the song wasn't it? :p
00:19:56  <Roujin> yup. Instead of just posting "I'm still alive" over and over ;) But with the concern glx wrote, seems I'll take that out before any public release..
00:20:55  <OwenS>  Is it legal? No. Would you be sued? Probably not.
00:28:34  <OwenS> The trouble with transitioning something to a proper open source project is you end up with ~23 line (X11 license) license boilerplate in each file...
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00:38:25  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
00:39:13  * Chruker swings a mouse in front of the owl
00:39:33  <Nite_Owl> Hello Chruker
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02:15:37  <PeterT> @seen yorick
02:15:37  <DorpsGek> PeterT: yorick was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 5 days, 5 hours, 24 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <yorick> also, don't listen to me
02:16:00  <PeterT> has anyone had luck with compiling on vc++
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05:05:13  <anthy> Install this on a couple computers for me!
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05:13:49  <Zuu> "Install this on a couple computers for me" sounds like a bad virus email joke :-)
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06:00:17  <Terkhen> hello
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06:03:34  <Zuu> Hello
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06:19:30  <pavel1269> good morning
06:20:27  <Xaroth> o/
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09:39:55  <fonsinchen> Is there a way to find out about the length of a string before actually drawing it? So that I can decide if I have to break a line.
09:42:03  <fonsinchen> Ah, I see ... GetStringBoundingBox. Sorry for the stupid question.
09:42:10  <TrueBrain> ;)
09:42:13  <TrueBrain> we forigve you :p
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10:39:07  * OwenS wonders if the engineers coming with his new broadband equipment will be on time (They have 21 minutes)
10:39:12  <TrueBrain> blathijs: is it possible via LDAP to have ssh keys? Or do they need to be in ~/.ssh/authorized_keys?
10:39:19  <TrueBrain> tick tack
10:39:44  <OwenS> TrueBrain: I'd assume that SSH doesn't touch LDAP and for this sort of thing assumes NFS usage :p
10:40:14  <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: since when are people like this ever on time?
10:40:35  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Very good question :p
10:40:39  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Dunno, haven't tried that
10:41:03  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Debian stores ssh keys in LDAP, but I think they write out authorized_keys files on changes
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10:42:16  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: They're on time if you're the first job of the day. If you're not, they're probably late :p
10:42:42  <Eddi|zuHause> but would the first job not be around 8 to 9-ish?
10:43:24  <OwenS> It would :p
10:43:33  <OwenS> (Though they said "any time between 8 and 12")
10:50:10  <OwenS> Actually, they are on time... when you're not :p
10:51:00  <TrueBrain> blathijs: well, in the ideal situation 1 developer can login to several VPSes with 1 key .. and sharing them outside the VPSes is tricky ;)
10:52:52  <blathijs> TrueBrain: What do you mean with "outside the VPSes" ?
10:53:09  <blathijs> I have shared homedirs for all my vservers, but that's probably not ideal from a security pov
10:53:10  <TrueBrain> blathijs: well, 2 VPSes, shared accounts via LDAP (and their authentication)
10:53:15  <TrueBrain> exactly
10:53:48  <blathijs> But I don't think that openssh has any direct LDAP code, it only talks to LDAP through PAM
10:53:59  <TrueBrain> k .. tnx :)
10:54:16  <blathijs> and I don't think PAM can handle key auth (though perhaps GSSAPI does something similar perhaps, with pam_kerberos or something?)
10:55:02  <TrueBrain> well, I think I will make a simple way which generates those files
10:55:18  <OwenS> Kerberos would require your local machine be configured for Kerberos... eww
10:59:08  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: On time :P
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11:13:13  <Xaroth> TrueBrain: I doubt you can use SSH keys with LDAP..
11:13:31  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: blathijs already told me, yes :p
11:14:08  <Xaroth> why SSH keys?
11:14:11  <Xaroth> if you're already using LDAP
11:14:27  <TrueBrain> why an apple, if you have an house!
11:14:38  <TrueBrain> :p
11:14:56  <TrueBrain> those 2 entries are not really related to eachother, other than they supply authentication :)
11:15:00  <TrueBrain> one only password less
11:15:35  <petern> i want to have ssh keys AND system passwords :s
11:15:50  <petern> probably some way of setting that up, but i've not found it
11:16:23  <Xaroth> petern: AND authentication instead of OR ?
11:16:35  <petern> ..
11:16:36  <petern> yes
11:16:43  <petern> both
11:16:45  <petern> together
11:16:46  <TrueBrain> client-side certificates
11:16:54  <TrueBrain> keyphrased protected keys
11:16:58  <Noldo> one time paswords too
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13:11:47  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i can't properly set up two screens
13:12:30  <Sacro> oh dear
13:13:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i can choose "clone display 1" which works, but when i choose "extend desktop", it sets the resolution to 1024x480
13:14:05  <glx> ATI ?
13:14:10  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah
13:15:33  <glx> I know how to configure an ATI card
13:16:27  <Eddi|zuHause> it's only temporary anyway... just wanted to see if it was working...
13:16:56  <Eddi|zuHause> the two monitors are of the same model, but they have extremely different colour...
13:17:26  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Is one on 6500k and the other 9300k?
13:17:59  <Eddi|zuHause> no
13:18:03  <TrueBrain> GRRR, stupid ldap doesn't let me set a password of a user account .. keeps complaining about sasl :s
13:18:04  <OwenS> (The 6500k one will look yellowy while the 9300k one will look blue-white by comparison)
13:18:06  <Eddi|zuHause> both with same setting
13:18:17  <OwenS> TrueBrain: SASL means login failure :p
13:18:29  <TrueBrain> yeah, it ALWAYS means that, yeah, thank you very much
13:18:31  <TrueBrain> sigh ...
13:18:54  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Then I don't know. My experience all lies with nVIDIA cards anyway
13:19:22  <OwenS> (Except for some work with an Intel GMA....)
13:21:00  <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: the colour is not about the card...
13:21:22  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: With the exception of "Digital Vibrance" settings, I know
13:22:48  <Xaroth> Eddi|zuHause: try forcing the resolution?
13:23:18  <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth: it only allows me to select this resolution
13:23:46  <OwenS> What is the graphics card model? Is it incapable of dualing at higher resolutions?
13:24:01  <Eddi|zuHause> and something like enabling xinerama and restarting x, but i don't really feel like doing that
13:24:20  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a Radeon 9700 Pro
13:25:34  <reldred1> Oh lovely, dualscreen on radeon always was fun back in the day
13:25:56  * reldred1 had a 9600 Pro
13:26:10  <reldred1> Several years ago however, back when X was evil and men were men
13:26:34  <reldred1> X is still evil, but men are largely latte drinking pansies.
13:26:34  <reldred1> None of which has anything to do with the matter at hand. I'll go now.
13:26:49  <Eddi|zuHause> well, AMD just discontinued support for this card this year
13:27:07  <Eddi|zuHause> the new monitor is much brighter than the old one
13:27:27  <OwenS> That's always the case. Monitors dim with age
13:27:42  <Eddi|zuHause> in two years?
13:27:50  <OwenS> Yes
13:27:52  <OwenS> The 9700 pro is a 7 year old card with only 128MB RAM...
13:28:11  <OwenS> Well, it's possible they're using a brighter backlight now or any of 1000 variables
13:28:45  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's possible some of the backlight tubes break
13:28:46  <OwenS> Though nothing will beat the difference side-by-side LCD vs CRT will give you :p
13:28:59  <reldred1> The 9700 Pro is 7 years old now? faaaark, I remember cranking Morrowind on my freshly installed 9600 Pro
13:29:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i threw away all my CRTs
13:29:35  <Eddi|zuHause> 7 years? i don't have my computer that long...
13:29:42  <OwenS> Came out 2002
13:29:47  <OwenS> I have a CRT for the olde Windows box, but thats it
13:30:16  <petern> i have a 21" CRT monitor
13:30:27  <petern> can't be arsed moving it
13:30:35  <Eddi|zuHause> although i bought it as a used one, but it was more high end than anything i would have got at Aldi
13:30:48  <Eddi|zuHause> petern: i know that problem
13:31:04  <OwenS> I never went higher than 17" CRT :p
13:31:05  <glx> 17" CRT are already heavy
13:31:06  <petern> if i ever moved my 'studio' into a spare bedroom i might set it up as a telly or something, heh
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13:31:36  <Eddi|zuHause> but mine had a colouring failure, and later it broke
13:31:41  <OwenS> I have a 19" LCD which weighs about as much though...
13:31:46  <Eddi|zuHause> so it was just standing there useless...
13:32:00  <OwenS> (Freaking heavy steel base!)
13:32:00  <petern> i think it's ~ 30Kg
13:32:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i remember how i took the monitor on a LAN party
13:32:18  <Eddi|zuHause> the people complained, because they had a really small flat :p
13:32:21  <petern> my keyboard is 25Kg
13:32:31  <Eddi|zuHause> the next lan party i brought a 15" monitor
13:32:40  <Eddi|zuHause> and they complained because it was really tiny :p
13:32:46  <OwenS> lol
13:33:02  <OwenS> I'd probably take the 19" LCD. It's JUST portable enough :p
13:33:07  <Eddi|zuHause> that was a great monitor, though, i could run it at higher resolutions than the 21"
13:33:12  <petern> my 22" LCD is quite heavy
13:33:46  <petern> hmm 5.53Kg
13:33:49  <petern> not that much then
13:33:56  <OwenS> (I am being serious about the 19" Philips LCD weight = 17" CRT weight BTW :P )
13:34:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i just picked up the box with the new monitor, and it felt really light...
13:34:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i was wondering if there actually was anything in there...
13:35:12  <petern> sometimes things seem heavier out of the box
13:35:16  <petern> density 'n all that
13:36:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i know that differently...
13:37:15  <Eddi|zuHause> we had a porcellan weight, and it looked like a cup upside down
13:37:28  <Eddi|zuHause> and everyone wanted to pick up the cup and turn it
13:37:39  <Eddi|zuHause> then suddenly relize it was heavier than they anticipated :p
13:38:21  <petern> heh
13:39:15  <OwenS> I should get a Uranium block. would be good for tricking people that way. And scaring the crap out of them :p
13:40:24  <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: you heard the story about two kids playing "nuclear power plant" with a couple of old computer cases and a printout of a "radioactive" sign?
13:40:34  <OwenS> lol
13:40:38  <OwenS> nope
13:40:50  <Eddi|zuHause> they went away for a few minutes, and left it on the road
13:41:07  <Eddi|zuHause> and when they came back, a huge police operation was there, thinking it was a "dirty bomb"
13:41:11  <OwenS> lool
13:41:23  <OwenS> As if a real dirty bomb would have a handy trefoil on it...
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13:41:41  <OwenS> I can go one better though
13:42:01  <Eddi|zuHause> ok... with this stereo view i'm going mad...
13:42:03  <OwenS> I read about a guy who actually built a "reactor" in his potting shed.
13:44:09  <OwenS> Well... the Environmental Protection Agency weren't pleased...
13:48:15  <Eddi|zuHause> how is that "better"?
13:48:31  <petern> pretty much everyone has read about something similar to that...
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14:04:24  <OwenSX48BD> TrueBrain: 11 (  32.902 ms  32.904 ms  32.853 ms <-- Much better!
14:04:33  <TrueBrain> OwenSX48BD: concratz
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14:05:11  <OwenS> Though I can't fully switch over yet as the router hasn't arrived
14:05:18  <TrueBrain>  6 (  6.188 ms  6.681 ms  6.659 ms <- hihi
14:05:31  <TrueBrain> (6th hop :p)
14:05:45  <OwenS> Theres a "you're in the same country and on the same landmass" issue there :p
14:06:31  <TrueBrain> and the "I have an ISP which has fiber from here directly to the AIX with only one hop in between" :p
14:06:44  <OwenS>  9 (  20.858 ms  31.654 ms  31.307 ms (Though cable is higher latency than Ethernet/Fiber/etc anyway :P )
14:08:55  <OwenS> Now I should probably switch back until the router makes itself present before anyone starts probing my open ports :p
14:11:56  <Xaroth>  7th here, but that's due to 1 firewall and 1 gateway :P
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14:13:01  <Xaroth>  5 (  2.242 ms  2.315 ms  2.291 ms
14:13:01  <Yexo> hello
14:13:10  <OwenS> lol
14:13:15  <Xaroth> from datacenter
14:13:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Name or service not known
14:14:15  <OwenS> Just for comparison, via old connection... I don't get there...
14:14:32  <Eddi|zuHause> send failed: No buffer space available
14:14:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess traceroute doesn't like me...
14:15:10  <OwenS> Aha! 15 (  74.534 ms  74.505 ms  80.703 ms
14:15:42  <OwenS> So my new result is less than half the old one :p
14:16:08  <Eddi|zuHause>  5  * (  267.092 ms (  299.168 ms
14:16:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the closest i get
14:16:56  <OwenS> Try tracerouting it by IP
14:17:02  <OwenS> And 4.? Isn't 4. unallocated?
14:17:06  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i did that
14:17:25  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently not...
14:17:41  <Eddi|zuHause> 17 (  1232.738 ms   1228.787 ms   1242.805 ms
14:17:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm really at the end of the world...
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14:19:21  <OwenS> Can I point out the irony that you share a land border with the netherlands? :p
14:19:46  <Eddi|zuHause> so?
14:20:18  <OwenS> I have to go ther across some ocean...and a much longer distance than you have worst case
14:21:01  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe my connection goes to the moon and back?
14:21:08  <Xaroth> OwenS: traceroute ?
14:21:19  <Xaroth> and wtf @ Eddi o_O
14:21:38  <OwenS> .42? why?
14:21:51  <OwenS> And I can't from my fast connection ATM :P
14:22:00  <Xaroth> because that's my datacenter?
14:22:07  <OwenS> lol
14:22:26  <OwenS> OK no AMS-IX here
14:22:40  <Xaroth> well ams-ix pings can fluctuate a LOT
14:22:49  <Xaroth> so I usually test to my datacenter and judge from that :P
14:23:03  * OwenS sends very long privmsg :p
14:23:04  <Eddi|zuHause> from inside the university i only get *
14:23:17  <Eddi|zuHause> or rather * * *
14:23:56  <OwenS> 20 (  74.863 ms  78.421 ms  80.670 ms is my last hop
14:26:23  <TrueBrain> why oh why does /etc/security/access.conf not work .. if I deny access from all, I can still make a SSH session :(
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14:33:48  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe that's an admin-protection ;)
14:34:27  <TrueBrain> :p
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14:37:28  <Eddi|zuHause> well, we've all heard of many of these "damn, i just shut myself out from this server" problems ;)
14:38:16  <TrueBrain> not a real issue here, as I work in VPSes :)
14:39:04  <OwenS> For me I just ssh into the Xen dom0 and login which connects me to the system console :p
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14:46:00  <Eddi|zuHause> anybody know how i insert a custom script for a global hotkey?
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14:47:18  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i might have found something relevant
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14:54:39  <TrueBrain> who knows how to make exim only deliver mail for a given group?
14:55:16  <OwenS> Heh... my mail servers all deliver to virtual accounts
14:56:52  <TrueBrain> local delivery for .. but with LDAP, there are many 'local' accounts :p
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15:39:40  <LordAzamath> hmm.. how many hq levels were there? 4 or 5?
15:40:14  <LordAzamath> 5
15:40:36  <TrueBrain> no worries LordAzamath, we all talk in ourself too :)
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16:02:37  <TrueBrain> I think it is stupid exim4 can only deliver to all local accounts .. why can't you limit that (in a simple way) to a single group ...
16:02:38  <TrueBrain> :(
16:03:28  <Noldo> *sob*
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16:42:07  <blathijs> TrueBrain: I think you can do that, but probably not with Debian's standard configuration wizard
16:42:29  <TrueBrain> blathijs: yes, which annoys me ..
16:42:34  <TrueBrain> but okay, I am now trying to add a filter to nss
16:42:39  <TrueBrain> which is most likely the better way to go anyway :p
16:42:43  <TrueBrain> but MemberOf doesn't want to work :(
16:46:04  <blathijs> TrueBrain: I'll have a look later
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16:50:47  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Do you want to check the primary group?
16:50:52  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Or any group membership?
16:51:36  <TrueBrain> latter
16:51:40  <TrueBrain> primary group is rarely relevant
16:52:47  <blathijs> Groups from LDAP?
16:52:50  <TrueBrain> yes
16:52:51  <TrueBrain> what else?
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16:56:27  <blathijs> How is something like: condition = ${lookup ldap {LDAPURL??sub?(&(uid=$local_part)(memberOf=some-group)}{$value}fail}
16:56:30  <blathijs> On the relevant router?
16:56:41  <TrueBrain> blathijs: as I said: I want to do NSS filtering :)
16:57:03  <TrueBrain> it is not that nice that all ldap users show up as local users :p
16:57:09  <TrueBrain> might give .. future problems, I say ;)
16:57:10  <blathijs> No, you said you were going to try that ;-p
16:57:17  <TrueBrain> ah :p
16:57:24  <TrueBrain> but I noted that it would be a better way ;)
16:57:45  <blathijs> If you don't want those users to show up as local users, then yes
16:58:06  <TrueBrain> well .. it means all local software sees every user as local
16:58:12  <blathijs> But I guess they still need an account on other vservers, so removing their uidNumber is not an option?
16:58:13  <TrueBrain> can lead to .. exploits? :p
16:58:22  <TrueBrain> exactly :p
16:58:59  <blathijs> Hmm, not sure how NSS filtering works :-)
16:59:05  <TrueBrain> filter <map> <filter>
16:59:10  <TrueBrain> but I can't get ldapsearch to do memberof shit
16:59:11  <TrueBrain> so ...
17:00:14  <TrueBrain> things keep on talking about 'member' entry which is in core.scheme
17:00:23  <TrueBrain> but either phpldapadmin doesn't show it, or it isn't there
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17:01:12  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Perhaps you should try ldapvi, which gives a rather raw view on your LDAP entries
17:01:33  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Though phpldapadmin should be able to do that as well
17:02:20  <blathijs> I'm not exactly sure how this member stuff is supposed to work, I'm using uniqueMember, which references full dn's instead of usernames
17:02:44  <blathijs> But I had to compose some custom objectclasses to get that to work nicely
17:03:24  <TrueBrain> one might expect that group-lookups are very comon ...
17:03:38  <TrueBrain> it is easier to make an objectclass and use that as group :p
17:03:39  <TrueBrain> haha
17:04:29  <blathijs> Well, I had it working with standard posixAccounts and posixGroups before that IIRC, but I wanted to be able to define groups of people without an account as well
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17:04:41  <TrueBrain> that I need too ;)
17:04:50  <blathijs> e.g., people that only have a forwarding mail address
17:05:24  <TrueBrain> I loaded some memberOf overlay
17:05:26  <TrueBrain> but still nothing :p
17:06:06  <TrueBrain> grr
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17:06:46  <blathijs> TrueBrain: I can have a look tomorrow, if you're still struggling by then :-)
17:06:52  <blathijs> I'm off to a meeting in a few minutes
17:07:01  <TrueBrain> tnx anyway :)
17:07:03  <TrueBrain> enjoy!
17:07:05  <_ln> hi blathijs and bye blathijs
17:07:05  <TrueBrain> I am going to get some food ...
17:07:12  <blathijs> (Btw, did you write down what you actually want to do with LDAP already? Or did you just start configging? :-p)
17:07:38  <TrueBrain> I don't have to write down wha tI want, as I know what I want :)
17:08:05  <blathijs> Even then, writing it down helps :-p
17:08:13  <TrueBrain> getting it to work, helps more
17:08:30  <blathijs> And I might be able to give you some advice on schema design, if I know what you want as well :-p
17:08:44  <TrueBrain> authentication and groups, that is all :)
17:08:54  <TrueBrain> go to your meeting, we talk later :)
17:09:53  <blathijs> I'm still waiting for $gf to arrive (I'm at the trefpunt in Utrecht Centraal currently, the Debian Developer that was going to sign my gpg key is delayed, so that meeting is cancelled :-p)
17:10:05  <TrueBrain> haha :)
17:11:04  <Xaroth> o_O
17:12:39  <TrueBrain> LDAP really doesn't update anything automatic :p If you remove a user, it is not removed from the group :p
17:13:27  <_ln> 2009-07-01 22:39 <Xaroth> people would argue that Utrecht is worth visiting
17:13:27  <_ln> 2009-07-01 22:39 <Xaroth> I.. still don't know what dope they are smoking
17:13:47  <Xaroth> yep
17:15:12  <blathijs> TrueBrain: That is something your frontend should handle for you, but there are hardly any decent frontends...
17:15:26  <TrueBrain> blathijs: for the rest, see PM :p
17:15:50  <blathijs> TrueBrain: I'll look at that tomorrow :-)
17:16:31  <TrueBrain>   hmm .. I just manual inserted something phpldapadmin told me wasn't there ...
17:16:32  <TrueBrain> go figure
17:17:01  <blathijs> gottago!
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17:24:19  <TrueBrain> lol .. problem is dat PosixGroup and GroupOfNames are both structural objects, and can't be assigned to one container ...
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17:38:32  <TrueBrain> yippie, fixed it :)
17:41:07  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Yup, that is exactly why I created my own schema
17:41:19  <TrueBrain> there is an rfc which makes posixGroup auxilary :)
17:41:24  <TrueBrain> seems to work :p
17:41:45  <blathijs> TrueBrain:;a=blob;f=etc/ldap/schema/custom.schema;h=90d4106ed16cffb8dc7982775a88e06dccaf07e3;hb=ldap <-- If you're interested
17:43:14  <TrueBrain> hmm .. this schema I now use doesn't give the posix groups how they should be given
17:43:19  <TrueBrain> (as in: they don't show the members :p)
17:43:24  <TrueBrain> dinner now first
17:44:57  <blathijs> My schema doesn't really work with phpldapadmin in a useful yet :-)
17:45:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17207 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
17:45:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnaullv
17:45:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 changes by IPG
17:45:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 1 changes by prof
17:45:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: serbian - 12 changes by etran
17:45:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
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18:27:03  <petern> heh, two consecutive translator commits
18:28:31  <frosch123> yeah, ottd is always moving :) at least one commit per day
18:28:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r17208 /trunk/src/table/engines.h: -Cleanup: Remove never accessed EngineInfo for engine 255.
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18:34:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r17209 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Move cargo_type from (Rail|Road|Ship)VehicleInfo to EngineInfo.
18:35:35  <petern> :D
18:38:45  <frosch123> i know, you already had a patch for that :p
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18:39:50  <petern> nope
18:39:53  <petern> i had a comment
18:39:57  <petern> but you ripped it out!
18:40:01  <frosch123> :p
18:40:08  <frosch123> that one :)
18:40:28  <frosch123> so, ai_rank, currently unused, will noai ever be interested in that?
18:41:08  <frosch123> hmm, it does not hurt though
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18:43:59  <petern> as i did go to the effort of implementing it :s
18:45:42  <OwenS> Ooh ooh ooh, even better news, the router that I'm being shipped is DD-WRT/OpenWRT compatible
18:48:23  <SpComb> is the router yours?
18:48:45  <SpComb> and I'd write that as "OpenWRT/DD-WRT compatible"
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19:00:10  <OwenS> SpComb: yes it's ours :p
19:00:28  <OwenS> The main purpose of said hacking is VLan trunking anyway
19:01:56  *** Priskiina is now known as Priski
19:01:57  <SpComb> quite
19:02:17  <OwenS> As in, shifting the Wi-Fi stuff onto it's own VLAN to seperate it from trusted devices :p
19:02:56  <SpComb> you can also have multiple SSIDs with different encryption settings as well :)
19:03:21  <SpComb> i.e. an open guest WLAN on one VLAN, WPA2-PSK on one, WPA2 with RAIDUS on another
19:03:45  <SpComb> (but byte counters don't work for those per-ssid network interfaces... so no snmp stats for WDS links)
19:05:26  <OwenS> One WPA-PSK, which gets you the internet and nothing else. One open, which gets you to the proxy servers :p
19:05:56  <SpComb> with transparent image rotation
19:06:21  <Xaroth> as in, a proxy that turns every image upside-down?
19:06:23  <Xaroth> cuz that would be awesome :P
19:06:26  <OwenS> lol
19:06:37  <OwenS> How about with colour inversion? :p
19:07:38  <OwenS> Hmm... Hopefully it will be a Rev C model; the older revisions are Ubicom processor based and not hackable
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19:12:50  <fonsinchen> In LoadUnloadVehicle there is the following piece of code:
19:13:38  <frosch123> you try it every day, don't you?
19:13:40  <fonsinchen> I strongly guess that this is bogus as it leaves v->load_unload_time remaining at 0
19:13:53  <frosch123> rb is not in this channel :)
19:14:38  <fonsinchen> If I remove that condition and thus make every vehicle stop loading immediately after starting, it should still work, shouldn't it?
19:15:10  <fonsinchen> Now I have a rather large cargodist savegame which works fine with the condition like it is and immediately crashes with the condition removed.
19:15:26  <fonsinchen> like this: openttd: /home/alve/projekte/openttd/src/economy.cpp:1144: void LoadUnloadVehicle(Vehicle*, CargoReservation&): Assertion `v->load_unload_time_rem != 0' failed.
19:15:53  <fonsinchen> If I was really fast I could have created the same situation by manually reversing that train.
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19:16:48  <frosch123> so it crashes when you remove the test? well, why do you remove it then?
19:17:02  <fonsinchen> because it is really hard to trigger that condition
19:17:15  <frosch123> load_unload_time is shared between pbs and loading btw
19:17:23  <fonsinchen> and I need to trigger that case to test if that's the cause of someone else's crash
19:17:45  <frosch123> and if a train is reversed and reserves a path it will likely deal with it
19:18:00  *** nicfer [~Usuario@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:18:48  <frosch123> well, I still did not understand you. do you want to add a 'load_unload_time = 0;' inside the if block?
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19:19:19  <fonsinchen> no it is 0 there already
19:19:27  <fonsinchen> because it has been checked before
19:19:52  <fonsinchen> the problem is exactly that. If it enters LoadUnloadVehicle again after that block, it crashes
19:19:58  <fonsinchen> so it needs to be set to 1
19:20:06  <fonsinchen> (or whatever else, but not 0)
19:20:21  <planetmaker> fonsinchen: I can confirm this error in r17170
19:20:30  <Noldo> or it needs to not enter LoadUnloadVehicle again
19:20:38  <planetmaker> in trunk
19:20:44  <fonsinchen> like a few lines further: v->load_unload_time_rem = max(1, unloading_time);
19:21:09  <fonsinchen> I don't know the exact code path, but obviously it can happen that it enters again
19:22:08  <frosch123> well, open a fs task, rb knows that code better
19:22:53  <fonsinchen> planetmaker, can you give me that save game?
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19:58:15  <fonsinchen> nvm, I have found a suitable savegame myself.
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20:24:24  <Fast2> !bananas
20:24:32  <Fast2> Hmmm
20:24:37  <R0b0t1> :-\
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20:24:52  <R0b0t1> B-A-N-A-N-A-S?
20:24:59  <TrueBrain> INFINITE MONKEYS
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20:25:33  <LaSeandre> and infinite time to write the complete works of shakespeare
20:25:54  <R0b0t1> And infinite monkeys will be arrested for copyright violations in the process.
20:26:06  <Fast2> No, but I wodered what this is
20:26:08  <R0b0t1> As they'd randomly make other plays and stuff too.
20:26:27  <TrueBrain> LaSeandre: you only need either infinite time or infinite monkeys, not both
20:28:49  <fonsinchen> But it doesn't hurt to have both.
20:30:01  * R0b0t1 wonders if monkeys are turing-complete
20:30:08  <R0b0t1> You could solve a lot of problems with lots of monkeys.
20:30:13  <TrueBrain> LaSeandre: you only need either infinite time or infinite monkeys, not both
20:30:15  <TrueBrain> lol
20:30:19  <TrueBrain> wrong screen, sorry LaSeandre
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20:55:58  <Eddi|zuHause> R0b0t1: the main assumption there is that they can read what they previously wrote
20:56:28  <Eddi|zuHause> then the proof should be easy
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20:57:01  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: monkeys can't read
20:57:08  <TrueBrain> that is the whole idea .. they just .. type something
20:57:26  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i meant about the turing-completeness
20:57:37  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yes, that was about the monkeys
20:57:41  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: and the shakespear thing is flawed
20:57:51  <Eddi|zuHause> it assumes that the monkeys do not get into an endless loop
20:58:02  <TrueBrain> in infinite time, even that doesn't matter
20:58:11  <TrueBrain> no matter what your entropy is, in infinite time, everything happens
20:58:13  <OwenS> if it's an infinte loop it does :p
20:58:47  <LaSeandre> :S
20:59:08  <LaSeandre> i seem to have sparked a debate about Turing and infinite monkeys...
20:59:11  <LaSeandre> oh well
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20:59:39  <OwenS> I was going to point out that's normal round here...
20:59:44  <TrueBrain> no, infinite monkeys were already here
20:59:54  <TrueBrain> they are crawling all over the place
21:00:06  <Eddi|zuHause> they take no end!
21:00:38  <OwenS> Send them all to 1 Infinte Loop, CA, USA :p
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21:01:49  * TrueBrain tries to make the final blocks for his 16bit convertor
21:01:53  <TrueBrain> but has a hard time on the very last pieces :(
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21:04:21  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
21:04:53  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you know the 90-90 rule ;)
21:05:09  <Eddi|zuHause> 90% of the time is spent on 90% of the development
21:05:21  <Eddi|zuHause> and the other 90% of the time is spent on the rest
21:05:47  <TrueBrain> .... doesn't make sense ...
21:05:58  <TrueBrain> 90% of the time .. the other 90% ..
21:06:01  <TrueBrain> you can't do math :(
21:06:09  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the point ;)
21:06:12  <TrueBrain> that is what you get when you send infinite monkeys in an endless loop :(
21:06:14  <Sacro> i know that
21:06:16  <OwenS> The point is that you get 90% done... then discovery ou have another 90% to do
21:06:16  <TrueBrain> IT IS A WRONG POINT!
21:06:19  <R0b0t1> He just can't do it 90% of the time
21:06:25  <Sacro> we got told that at uni
21:06:44  <TrueBrain> at my uni they at least make sense .. 90% of the time you spent on 10% of your app
21:06:49  <TrueBrain> +last
21:06:50  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: the point is, everything takes longer than anticipated
21:07:05  <TrueBrain> I don't care! It doesn't add up! I refuse to believe! THERE IS NO SPOON!
21:07:17  <R0b0t1> Yeah, it's a spork.
21:07:22  <Eddi|zuHause> psst... your OCD is coming through ;)
21:07:45  <Eddi|zuHause> R0b0t1: that's a dangerous field you are entering
21:07:51  <TrueBrain> do you know what day it is tomorrow?
21:07:57  <Eddi|zuHause> tuesday.
21:07:58  <R0b0t1> Uh, the 18th?
21:08:05  <TrueBrain> do you know what that means?
21:08:07  <R0b0t1> Another painful amount of time?
21:08:07  <Eddi|zuHause> summer semester
21:08:17  <TrueBrain> do you know what happened 364 days ago? (and tomorrow 365)
21:08:23  <Eddi|zuHause> no.
21:08:25  <R0b0t1> The same day?
21:08:59  <TrueBrain> it was a very good day for OpenTTD
21:09:04  <OwenS> r10000?
21:09:25  <TrueBrain> nope, that was longer ago
21:09:33  <TrueBrain> it was a day that made me so happy
21:09:34  <Eddi|zuHause> you quit? :p
21:09:48  <TrueBrain> no, I do that all the time
21:09:58  <R0b0t1> lol....
21:10:13  <TrueBrain> I just received word that in fact it isn't until the 19th
21:10:15  <TrueBrain> 14:06 CEST
21:10:28  <TrueBrain> until then, you can only guess, and I won't tell :)
21:10:56  *** thingwath [quasselcor@] has quit [Quit: It's all over.]
21:11:07  <Eddi|zuHause> > svn log -r '{2008-08-18}:{2008-08-19}'
21:11:09  <Eddi|zuHause> svn: Failed to find time on revision 8604
21:11:21  <TrueBrain> haha, subversion error :)
21:11:29  <TrueBrain> I guess we should install 1.6 soon
21:11:34  *** thingwath [quasselcor@] has joined #openttd
21:11:36  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, and it's your fault :p
21:11:49  <TrueBrain> yup
21:11:59  <TrueBrain> well .. not completely .. Rubidium did the filtering :p
21:12:03  <Eddi|zuHause> you tinkered with the internal data ;)
21:15:20  <TrueBrain> I hope subversion will accept the vhost patch soon :(
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21:46:27  <pavel1269> time for bed, gn folks :-)
21:46:47  <TrueBrain> night pavel1269
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22:15:59  * OwenS wonders where the hell one finds a TTL S/PDIF (AKA Motherboard Header) to TOSLINK (AKA Optical S/PDIF) bracket...
22:16:18  <TrueBrain> I would guess in a store
22:16:22  <TrueBrain> but that is too obvious I guess
22:16:31  <SpComb> packaged along with your motherboard
22:17:20  <Nite_Owl> self fabrication
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23:05:55  <R0b0t1> Is "unload and leave empty" pretty much a transfer order?
23:07:56  <Eddi|zuHause> no
23:08:19  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a difference in behaviour when the station accepts the cargo
23:17:40  <TrueBrain> whoho, my static recompiler seems to work very nice :)
23:17:42  <TrueBrain> yes yes
23:21:29  * TrueBrain is happy
23:21:32  <TrueBrain> and I wish you all a very good night
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23:48:21  <OwenS> Is it just me... Or should a supposed government body NOT own patents? ...
23:51:15  *** tdev [] has quit [Quit: free open source vehicle simulator:]
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23:54:23  <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: i don't really know anything, but afair, american government employees cannot claim copyright over things they produce while they are working. i don't know in how far that extends to patents
23:54:46  <OwenS> Even worse: this is an Austalian government body with US patents....
23:55:39  <OwenS> Which has basically decided to suplement it's funding with patent trolling
23:55:40  <reldred1> Are we whinging about CSIRO patent trolling?
23:55:46  <OwenS> Yes :p
23:56:04  <Eddi|zuHause> why should the australian government not be able to hold US patents?
23:56:09  <reldred1> Yeah, but CSIRO make all sorts of cool shit, so they're allowed to patent troll as far as I'm concerned :P
23:56:32  <reldred1> If it was some legal entitity that did nothing, and just patent trolled for quick cash, then I'd be annoyed
23:57:08  <reldred1> God knows our government won't give them anywhere near enough money, they gotta get their cash somehow
23:57:25  <OwenS> OK. Please stop killing my Wi-Fi kit vendors :p
23:57:54  <OwenS> But isn't government work generally supposed to be made freely available?
23:58:10  <Eddi|zuHause> no, why would it?
23:58:20  <Eddi|zuHause> it's every government's own decision to do that

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