Config
Log for #openttd on 25th August 2009:
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01:09:03  <PeterT> what would be the cause of a binary (after being patched and compiled) having the openttd version "r"?
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01:25:16  <R0b0t1> r? Just r?
01:25:20  <R0b0t1> Not r12432 or w/e?
01:30:40  <PeterT> nope
01:30:49  <PeterT> just r RObOtl
01:32:07  <PeterT> R0b0t1
01:32:12  <PeterT> just "r"
01:34:35  <R0b0t1> Hmm
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06:48:53  <Terkhen> good morning
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08:01:19  <TrueBrain> morning all :)
08:01:59  <Rubidium> what? is it still morning? it's a miracle!
08:02:05  <TrueBrain> shut up
08:02:14  <Rubidium> hello Weirdo :)
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09:09:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17276 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/shared/mysql.cpp: [MSU] -Change: make the download count incrementer a bit more lenient to (DB) table changes
09:11:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r17277 /extra/website/bananas/ (base.sql models.py): [Website] -Change: no longer let Django manage the download table
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09:22:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17278 /extra/masterserver_updater/ (39 files in 7 dirs): [MSU] -Fix: some missing header stuff like $Id$ and missing svn keywords (both eol-style and Id)
09:22:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17279 /trunk/src/core/math_func.cpp: -Fix: svn:eol-style missing
09:24:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17280 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/contentserver/tcp.cpp: [MSU] -Fix: more descriptive error message for when loading a file fails
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10:13:15  <em179> window show
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10:13:24  <Noldo> o//
10:13:28  <Noldo> \o
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10:44:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17281 /trunk/src/ (callback_table.cpp group_gui.cpp): -Feature(tte): open the 'Rename group' dialog after creating new group
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10:48:07  <Nickman_87> hi all
10:48:14  <SmatZ> hello Nickman_87
10:48:57  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: I will migrate your SSH account to LDAP now :)
10:49:13  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: and svn?
10:49:26  <TrueBrain> you don't have a svn account :p Only SSH :)
10:49:31  <SmatZ> ah
10:49:35  <SmatZ> ok :)
10:49:37  <TrueBrain> either way, would you mind logging out of SSH for a minute or 3? :)
10:49:52  <SmatZ> done ;)
10:51:48  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: all done
10:53:08  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: thanks :)
10:53:22  <SmatZ> it works!
10:53:31  <TrueBrain> of course it does :p
10:53:33  <TrueBrain> haha :)
10:53:40  <SmatZ> ;)
10:53:52  <SmatZ> hmm now I have to get used to different password :)
10:54:02  <TrueBrain> install a ssh key :)
10:54:09  <TrueBrain> soon it won't work via password ;)
10:54:23  <SmatZ> this saved me at least twice from commiting wrong stuff :-D
10:54:26  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Where does one install the ssh key? Was there a django app for that?
10:54:40  <TrueBrain> blathijs: it will be in the Profile
10:54:42  <TrueBrain> when that is done :p
10:54:52  <SmatZ> ah :-/
10:55:00  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: I can make you a pre-commit script which requires you to validate your commit ;)
10:55:17  <blathijs> Type "yes, I am really sure that this commit is ok." to continue
10:55:20  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: would be nice ;)
10:55:27  <SmatZ> hehe
10:55:43  <TrueBrain> but why you don't use the EDITOR to type the commit to validate? :P
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10:56:16  <blathijs> SmatZ: I'd recommend using the svn vim plugin
10:56:26  <blathijs> SmatZ: That shows the svn diff in a split window below the commit message
10:56:33  <SmatZ> the WHAT? hehe... yeah, I heard something about that... like when I miss that "comment" part, editor is executed...
10:56:34  <blathijs> (when you use vim to type the commit message, of course)
10:56:52  <SmatZ> blathijs: I have EDITOR=nano now :-x
10:56:58  <TrueBrain> here it only shows which file I will be committing :)
10:57:01  <SmatZ> I don't know vim :(
10:57:02  <TrueBrain> which mostly is enough ;)
10:57:13  <SmatZ> all those shortcuts and commands... ;)
10:57:30  <blathijs> TrueBrain: I really like having the diff at hand when typing the commit message, it prevents me from missing changes
10:57:39  <blathijs> SmatZ: It really is worth it to invest some time learning vim, IMHO
10:57:41  <TrueBrain> it indeed is useful :)
10:57:52  <blathijs> SmatZ: But perhaps nano has something similar, though I doubt it
10:58:07  <SmatZ> blathijs: I guess so :) I wanted to learn it several times, never managed to
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10:58:17  <blathijs> SmatZ: So you'll just have to remember to type svn diff | less and look closely every time before committing
10:58:32  <blathijs> SmatZ: The best way is not to try to learn it, but just start using it
10:58:50  <SmatZ> :)
10:58:59  <blathijs> (But not just before an important deadline ;-p)
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10:59:09  <SmatZ> it rather happened that I was searching in bash history for "svn diff"
10:59:17  <SmatZ> and I chose "svn ci something" instead
10:59:31  <TrueBrain> never add a commit message via svn commit ;)
10:59:56  <blathijs> Yeah, just always use the editor to type it
11:00:12  <SmatZ> ok, I will switch to no-commit-in-svn-ci
11:00:25  <TrueBrain> that saved me so many times :p
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11:00:32  <blathijs> That will also prevent you from typing short single line messages where multiple lines would have been more appropriate :-p
11:00:41  <SmatZ> hehe
11:00:58  <blathijs> This kind of stuff is exactly why I like git so much
11:01:05  <blathijs> --amend is briljant :-)
11:01:25  <blathijs> Half of the time I start committing changes before I've completely tested them
11:01:39  <SmatZ> :)
11:01:41  <blathijs> Writing a commit message is perfect to do while your code is compiling
11:01:50  <blathijs> any errors can be --amended afterwards anyway
11:02:32  <TrueBrain> haha, nice ;)
11:02:42  <SmatZ> :)
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11:02:55  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: either way, ssh keys can have passwords too ;)
11:03:04  <TrueBrain> is even more safe ;)
11:03:38  <blathijs> Actually, they should really, really always have a passphrase (unless they're supposed to be used automated)
11:03:53  <Noldo> then you can use ssh-agent and keychain <3
11:04:02  <TrueBrain> I never use ssh-agent
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11:04:31  <blathijs> If you don't want to type the passphrase, you should use ssh-agent, never just remove the passphrase...
11:04:37  <TrueBrain> but I also not always use passphrases :) Depends on the key and the access level :p
11:04:40  <SmatZ> hehe
11:04:48  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: ah, good :)
11:05:03  <TrueBrain> but yes, all root@ should _always_ have passphrases :)
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11:05:13  <SmatZ> I will have to move my ssh key from this account to all other accounts, right?
11:05:23  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: how do you mean?
11:05:37  <SmatZ> so I can connect to SSH from, say, my school account
11:05:37  <TrueBrain> I suggest creating a passphrases key just for OpenTTD :p
11:05:52  <TrueBrain> yeah, you can use it for what ever you like
11:06:02  <TrueBrain> as long as you keep your private key private :)
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11:06:26  <SmatZ> but it has to be available in all accounts I am using :(
11:06:31  <SmatZ> but okay
11:06:37  <TrueBrain> oh, like that
11:06:40  <TrueBrain> USB keys are useful ;)
11:06:47  <TrueBrain> just use a passphrases if you put your key on a USB :)
11:06:47  <SmatZ> I will upload it somewhere to web and download it if needed (haha)
11:07:05  <TrueBrain> I am happy my sarcasm detector is active :p
11:07:10  <SmatZ> ;)
11:07:16  <blathijs> Ah, that's convenient if I ever need to use SmatZ' account
11:07:31  <SmatZ> hehe
11:07:52  <blathijs> SmatZ: Alternatively, you can make a different key for each place you will be connecting from, and set them all as authorized keys with openttd
11:07:55  <SmatZ> something like devs.openttd.org/~smatz/private.key
11:08:05  <SmatZ> blathijs: ah, good idea
11:08:11  <blathijs> that way, if your account at school is compromised, you don't need to switch private keys everywhere
11:08:15  <SmatZ> I didn't want to bug TrueBrain more times though
11:08:19  <TrueBrain> blathijs: which means I need to allow that via the Profile page ... ;)
11:08:21  <SmatZ> good idea
11:08:46  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Yup, but you weren't going to limit peoples security options anyway, right?
11:08:50  <blathijs> :-p
11:08:59  <TrueBrain> well, limiting to ssh keys is a limitation, not? :)
11:09:09  <blathijs> TrueBrain: That profile page, do you have a preview version yet? And will you be releasing code?
11:09:24  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: I have a key on USB I use to login to my home, which can login to for example openttd :p So I bounce my connection
11:09:34  <TrueBrain> blathijs: I have not a single words written down for it :p Why?
11:09:42  <Noldo> bouncing is fun!
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11:09:49  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Posing an upper limit on their security options, then :-p
11:09:55  <Noldo> and even more so with ssh-key forwarding
11:10:13  <Noldo> or agent forwarding but anyway
11:10:47  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Hmm, I thought you were already started a bit. I have an LDAP server as well, which might want something like a profile page as well, for people to set their own LDAP attributes
11:11:09  <blathijs> I don't have SSH keys in LDAP yet, but I might add that if people could set them through a profile page
11:11:17  <TrueBrain> blathijs: oh, this page will be simple: displayname, password, and ssh keys
11:11:32  <TrueBrain> ssh keys won't go in LDAP btw
11:11:34  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Yeah, which is exactly what I'd need
11:11:38  <TrueBrain> they will be written to a seperate fs
11:12:03  <blathijs> Ah, I thought through LDAP. But the effect is the same of course (probably even better, since there is no need to periodically write out SSH keys)
11:12:16  <TrueBrain> exactly :)
11:12:45  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Btw, do you realize that limiting ssh logins to ssh keys is rather pointless if you can upload new ssh keys through a password-authenticated website? It might prevent ssh bruteforce attacks, but not add real security.
11:12:48  <TrueBrain> and I couldn't find a good enough container in LDAP :p
11:13:19  <blathijs> Debian does it, perhaps they have their LDAP schema available somewhere :-)
11:13:19  <TrueBrain> blathijs: the problem is brute-force attacks and the fact I want to allow access to lower-security groups (e.g.: normal users)
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11:14:37  <blathijs> TrueBrain: normal users which chose stupid, bruteforceable passwords, you mean? :-)
11:14:44  <TrueBrain> exactly :
11:14:45  <TrueBrain> )
11:14:56  <blathijs> Fair point
11:15:14  <blathijs> Though you could still be bruteforced on the web interface, but that doesn't happen that often
11:15:25  <TrueBrain> and it would be fairly simple to protect
11:16:22  <blathijs> OTOH, ssh is even simpler to protect, just install fail2ban
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11:17:10  <TrueBrain> but okay, that was the idea behind it, to avoid unneeded stuff and centralize access
11:17:53  <Noldo> simple syn based limiter goes a long way
11:18:29  <TrueBrain> blathijs: btw, adding/removing sshkeys will require validations via email
11:18:35  <TrueBrain> avoiding most of the attacks possible
11:18:44  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Ah, that seems like a decent approach
11:19:43  <TrueBrain> I guess only displayname will be changable without validation :p
11:19:45  <TrueBrain> hehehehe :)
11:20:22  <blathijs> :-)
11:21:37  <TrueBrain> but if you have a better idea for a security model, I would love to hear it :)
11:21:37  *** green-devil [~l@d40a9496.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit []
11:21:56  <TrueBrain> in more detail: I want to allow svn+ssh commit access for NoAI projects, as over WebDAV is simply SUCKS ASS
11:22:27  <TrueBrain> is = it :p
11:22:35  * OwenS rewrites his LLVM backend because it's become a *mess*
11:22:37  <Ammler> shouldn't at least the login/account be forced to ssl?
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11:22:47  <Noldo> TrueBrain: how do you solve the problem with the file permissions?
11:23:00  <TrueBrain> Ammler: if you can get us a certificate signed by a root CA which most OSes accept, I would
11:23:28  <TrueBrain> Noldo: a single VPS will handle all VCS systems, and all SSH access is piped through a wrapper
11:23:39  <TrueBrain> (or at least, that is what I am planning to do)
11:23:47  <Ammler> oh well, if you are that far and like to register, you would also install the ssl certifcate.
11:24:58  <TrueBrain> well ... not all browsers ALLOW you to do that
11:24:58  <Ammler> startssl.com would do that, but doesn't allow wildcard certs for free.
11:25:11  <TrueBrain> we only have 1 SSL domain: secure.openttd.org
11:25:20  <TrueBrain> the rest are .. 'friendly' helpers redirecting you to secure.openttd.org
11:25:43  <Ammler> you can test the cert here: https://dev.openttdcoop.org
11:26:02  <OwenS> Ammler: Well Ubuntu doesn't have it
11:26:18  <Ammler> but ubuntu does allow to install it.
11:26:35  <OwenS> Yes. But you have to install it. It's no better than a self signed cert in that case...
11:26:53  <Ammler> oh, I see, you are expert ;-)
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11:27:44  <TrueBrain> either way Ammler, does it matter, http or https? They can snoop http, sure, but that has to be a local issue .. in that case they can also have a keystroker installed :p
11:28:10  <blathijs> Is it me, or is 256bit SSL really not that much?
11:28:38  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Technically, traffic can be sniffed en-route as well, though it's not so likely
11:28:38  <OwenS> 256-bit AES?
11:28:55  <TrueBrain> blathijs: means a compromised ISP .. so yes, unlikely ;)
11:29:17  <OwenS> Namecheap will sell you a RapidSSL cert for .95. Or for free with a .96 domain :P
11:29:59  <Rubidium> ... but not a wildcard certificate
11:30:11  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Though things like using public WLAN might be more likely
11:30:16  <TrueBrain> maybe we should just get a paid one at some big root CA thingy ..
11:30:23  <TrueBrain> blathijs: true
11:30:52  <OwenS> TrueBrain: RapidSSL's root cert is in IE 5+/AOL 5+/Netscape 4.7+/Opera 7+/Safari/Mozilla/Firefox... seems common enough :p
11:31:13  <Ammler> anyway, startssl doesn't work on my winbox either :-(
11:31:15  <TrueBrain> euh .. your OS carries root certs ..
11:31:24  <TrueBrain> ca-certificates package, mostly
11:32:13  <OwenS> On Windows most browsers seem to ship their own certs
11:32:30  <OwenS> I presume they just install them into the system library though
11:33:14  <blathijs> OwenS: Typicial that RapidSSL says "Single Root Certificate - Easy to Install" though, that suggests that their root CA isn't installed in browsers yet...
11:33:15  <OwenS> On Linux yes it tends to come from a standard package
11:33:49  <OwenS> blathijs: By that they mean you don't need to configure your webserver to chain certificates. I have a multiple root certificate, which means I actually need to feed my webserver two certs to get back to the browser root CA
11:34:21  <blathijs> Ah, like that
11:34:21  <OwenS> As in my cert is from CA A, who got a cert from CA B, who's cert your browser has
11:34:36  <blathijs> So they mean their root CA signs all certificates directly
11:34:40  <OwenS> Yes
11:37:02  <Rubidium> oh... that implies 'bad' security
11:37:28  <OwenS> ?
11:37:49  <TrueBrain> the ones from godaddy are payable
11:37:55  <TrueBrain> but I can't find which root CA it is :p
11:38:07  <TrueBrain> they claim 99% browser acceptance .. but that they all do :p
11:38:23  <Rubidium> means that to-be-signed-certificates go to the root CA to be signed, which means lots of traffic with data from unknown sources
11:38:45  <Ammler> which os or browser doesn't allow installing certs?
11:38:56  <Rubidium> and if something goes wrong you have to scratch your root CA and ALL certificates that depend on it (i.e. all certificates you ever signed)
11:38:56  <OwenS> Ammler: Installing certs means people don't trust you :p
11:39:05  <OwenS> And it's too complex for users :p
11:39:23  <TrueBrain> Ammler: FF3.5 from time to time says: invalid cert
11:39:26  <OwenS> Rubidium: vs going to an intermediate CA where you have to scratch the intermediate CA and the VERY sizable quantity of certificates signed by it. Same either way
11:39:27  <TrueBrain> and doesnt' allow any way to bypass that
11:39:31  <TrueBrain> simply because it doens't know the root CA
11:40:15  <OwenS> TrueBrain: RapidSSL Wildcard is cheaper than GoDaddy's wildcard...
11:40:37  <TrueBrain> OwenS: I don't care about wildcards
11:40:47  <OwenS> Their standard is cheaper also :p
11:40:55  <Rubidium> OwenS: a part of your customers vs all customers
11:41:09  <Rubidium> in the latter you can better close your company
11:41:27  <TrueBrain> OwenS: 20 euro for godaddy vs 80 dollar for RapidSSL
11:41:29  <TrueBrain> dunno ..
11:41:46  <OwenS> Rubidium: Multiple root means that the company you're getting your cert from just got a signing cert from someone else rather than owning their own. In other words... works same either way :p
11:41:56  <OwenS> TrueBrain: http://www.namecheap.com/learn/other-services/ssl-certificates.asp .95 :p
11:42:28  <TrueBrain> a subseller ...
11:42:45  <OwenS> TrueBrain: GoDaddy are too..
11:42:47  <Rubidium> OwenS: IIRC Verisign makes it's own signing certs
11:43:00  <TrueBrain> OwenS: I can't find any record of that (also not if they are a Root CA)
11:43:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17282 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/doc/ (sqstdlib2.chm sqstdlib2.pdf squirrel2.chm squirrel2.pdf): -Fix (r17195): the squirrel documentation files were not updated
11:43:21  <Ammler> I guess, firefox is the only browser which has the root cert installed from startssl
11:43:23  <OwenS> Rubidium: They sign theirs directly from their many year old root CA
11:43:44  <OwenS> Ammler: Ubuntu Firefox doesn't have it - it gets it's CAs from the system CA hive
11:43:59  <Rubidium> guess they undid some of the security they once had ;)
11:44:29  <OwenS> TrueBrain: RapidSSL comes fromEquifax Secure eBusiness CA-1
11:44:35  <Ammler> OwenS: you can safely ignore linux user in that case.
11:44:58  <OwenS> Ammler: But AFAIK it doesn't ship it on Windows either
11:45:34  <Ammler> yes, ie didn't allow, but ff did.
11:46:01  <Ammler> so it seems no free cert for all :-(
11:46:25  <OwenS> StartSSL is only useful if you're setting up a Jabber server
11:48:07  <TrueBrain> http://www.rapidssl.com/ssl-certificate-products/rapidssl/usd/ssl-certificate-rapidssl.htm <- sounds decent
11:48:14  <TrueBrain> they are root CA, and accepted by most browers
11:49:46  <Ammler> imo, not worth to pay for it.
11:50:05  <TrueBrain> well, the problems with the current certificate is not worth the trouble either :p
11:50:16  <TrueBrain> cacert is not as accepted as they want us to believe
11:50:22  <Ammler> indeed, better keep it like now then. :-)
11:50:35  <TrueBrain> huh? You rather keep the trouble?
11:50:51  <Ammler> you don't have, if oyu don't use ssl, like I asked for.
11:51:07  <Rubidium> maybe ask them for sponsoring
11:51:25  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: somehow I doubt they will do that, but yeah, that is an option :)
11:51:58  <Rubidium> like: we don't need to ,000 warranty, we just need a wildcard SSL certificate for our open source project
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11:52:20  <TrueBrain> I always wonder what those warranties are for :p
11:52:44  <Rubidium> for when their root key get stolen and people hijack your site
11:53:02  <TrueBrain> how would they hijack our site? :p
11:53:32  <Rubidium> rerouting IP traffic etc.
11:53:37  <OwenS> How? :P
11:53:39  <OwenS> I mean.. they don't even have your private key :p
11:53:51  <Ammler> m?h, isn't that the whole reason for ssl certs?
11:54:19  <Rubidium> OwenS: but the SSL provider has (had?) it
11:55:21  <OwenS> Rubidium: No they don't. You send them your CSR, which is your unsigned public key, they sign it and send you it back
11:56:09  <Rubidium> so then the whole warranty if pointless?
11:56:17  <TrueBrain> signing certs is pointless
11:56:35  <Rubidium> signing certs via the internet at least is
11:57:09  <TrueBrain> cacert for sure is pointless, as every maniac can make another cert which looks the same as ours
11:57:12  <OwenS> The warranty is about mis-issued certificates. Whatever that is
11:57:35  <blathijs> If a root CA is leaked, an attacker can generate certificates for any domain, and thus perform valid-looking man-in-the-middle attacks
11:58:01  <blathijs> But they can attack any client with the root CA installed, not just domains that have a certificate from that root CA
12:00:25  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Uh, it seems that cacert actually does some level of identity control, so that looks ok
12:00:34  <TrueBrain> blathijs: they 'identified' me
12:00:36  <TrueBrain> makes you wonder :p
12:00:36  <blathijs> better than most SSL certificates, which aren't ID-verified
12:00:59  <blathijs> According to cacert.nl, you need to identify yourself with a valid national ID
12:01:08  <TrueBrain> try cacert.org ;)
12:01:27  <blathijs> (Though that only helps if they also verify that against whois info in the domain...)
12:01:50  <blathijs> dunno, I didn't think cacert.org was really clear. No "what is cacert anyway?" page anywhere
12:01:52  <Rubidium> oh, that they didn't
12:01:53  <OwenS> The standard for non-EV SSL certs is 1) A phonecall 2) An e-mail to one of the domain's administration addresses
12:02:17  <TrueBrain> cacert.org is automated
12:02:27  <TrueBrain> I believe there was some validation over a @openttd.org email
12:02:30  <TrueBrain> can't remember really
12:02:37  <Ammler> startssl verifies with fix email to the whois db or [web|post]master@domain
12:02:37  <OwenS> I got an e-mail and an automated phonecall
12:02:40  <TrueBrain> for sure no real identification, only simple web-queries
12:02:52  <OwenS> (From Commodo)
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12:08:33  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Yeah, it seems that you need to verify using a postmaster@domain email
12:08:47  <Ammler> he, you could use FreeSSL from RapidSSL, you just need to rename monthly ;-)
12:08:49  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Which is sortof secure for the domain
12:08:59  <Ammler> renew*
12:09:11  <blathijs> TrueBrain: And you can only put the domain in the certificate, no realname, location, tec
12:10:18  <blathijs> But it seems you can't do that ever...
12:10:40  <blathijs> The only advantage of ID'ing, is that you get a 24 month validity instead of 6 month
12:10:59  <blathijs> (and there is some stuff like using your real name in client certificates)
12:28:09  <Eddi|zuHause> grr... this revolutions mod is difficult... i can't keep these bastards under control...
12:31:50  <Belugas> hello
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12:48:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17283 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/ (3 files in 3 dirs): -Cleanup [Squirrel]: remove a few unneeded changes to squirrel code
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12:54:12  <glx> TrueBrain: I had a working 10.4.8 install :)
12:54:19  <TrueBrain> _had_ :p
12:54:30  <glx> but I stupidely tried to update it to 10.4.11
12:54:49  <TrueBrain> either way, it is progress ;)
12:54:55  <TrueBrain> maybe you can try the 10.5 boot-132 method :)
12:55:17  <glx> trying to dl leo4all 10.5.2
12:55:47  <TrueBrain> good thing about boot-132 method, is that you can upgrade
12:56:55  <glx> I have an AMD cpu :)
12:57:00  <TrueBrain> so?
12:58:17  <glx> kernel updates are problematic
12:58:47  <TrueBrain> not with the vodoo-mach_kernel
12:58:50  <TrueBrain> (which you want anyway)
12:59:21  <TrueBrain> bah, I somehow need to convert a dmg to iso again
13:01:15  <glx> try 7-zip to navigate through dmg
13:01:26  <TrueBrain> I need the bootloader
13:02:03  <TrueBrain> hmm ... via ESXi it seems I can't get AMD-V to work :(
13:02:29  <TrueBrain> I guess that shouldn't really suprise me
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13:03:43  <glx> grr without tpb it's quite hard to download
13:04:42  <TrueBrain> hmm .. and demonoid closed his invite-system
13:05:12  <glx> I found many torrents but they all have tpb as tracker
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13:22:24  <TrueBrain> I really dislike about OSX that you need OSX to handle any of their files or thingies
13:24:09  <Rubidium> Neelie! Neelie! Neelie!
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13:51:05  <OwenS> One tracker has announced it's traffix has multiplied 8 times since TPB went down, lol
13:58:38  <Belugas> TPB? The Pirate Bay? Down?
13:58:42  <Belugas> OMG OMG OMG!
13:58:53  <OwenS> Their ISP's ISP got forced to disconnect them yesterday
13:58:58  <OwenS> The site is back up but the trackers are down
14:00:39  <glx> trackers are not really needed with DHT ;)
14:00:49  <glx> but they help
14:00:58  <OwenS> DHT still really needs trackers to bootstrap
14:01:23  <glx> I downloaded 10.4.8 using DHT only
14:02:01  <KenjiE20> just add opentbittorrent to everything :P
14:02:20  <TrueBrain> the end of the torrent network this is ;)
14:03:58  <OwenS> OpenBittorrent, publicBT and TheHiddenTracker :p
14:04:07  <OwenS> The last will be a bitch for anyone to go after :p
14:05:20  <Rubidium> what they just did is make the more or less "monopolist" die, which mean that the others will take over making it harder to get control over the whole thing
14:06:01  <OwenS> I wouldn't be surprised if the indexing sites start adding those 3 trackers to all the torrents added to them
14:06:37  <Yexo> TrueBrain: http://wiki.openttd.org/Industries <- "The database did not find the text of a page that it should have found, named "Industries". "
14:07:49  <TrueBrain> I guess a result of yesterdays crash?
14:08:03  <Yexo> did something crash yesterday?
14:08:08  <TrueBrain> the whole server, yes
14:10:26  <TrueBrain> where does wiki store its pages ... :p
14:10:59  <Yexo> TrueBrain: all old versions are accessable, so I can probably fix this page by just saving the last version again
14:11:20  <TrueBrain> yes, but give me a sec
14:11:25  <TrueBrain> I want to see where the corruption happened
14:11:25  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: in the DB ofcourse!
14:11:29  <Rubidium> as binary blob
14:11:37  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I can't find which :p
14:11:47  <TrueBrain> 'cur'
14:11:48  <TrueBrain> LOL
14:15:59  <TrueBrain> nope, that record is indeed not in the table :p
14:16:58  <TrueBrain> and it refuses any save action
14:17:25  <TrueBrain> I wonder if any other page can be changed :p
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14:22:58  <TrueBrain> Yexo: k, I managed to recover the page
14:23:04  <TrueBrain> what does amaze me, it is the only missing record in the wiki
14:23:07  <TrueBrain> and you somehow found it :p
14:23:20  <Yexo> it's the top item in recent changes ;)
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14:23:45  <Yexo> nice work on recovering it :)
14:23:45  <TrueBrain> I still have NO idea where wiki stores its pages
14:23:55  <TrueBrain> but it seems somehow the Page was cached, as the Edit thingy was easy to recover :p
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14:25:25  <TrueBrain> Yexo: just that top entry is not in the database :p
14:25:29  <TrueBrain> so the last edit is no more
14:30:05  <TrueBrain> there, removed the last traces of it :)
14:31:09  <TrueBrain> who has an idea on this: Password Recovery. You will in your usename and email address, your new password. You get an email with validation code, after which your password is set to the one you gave earlier. Sounds good?
14:31:58  <Yexo> most sites that have such a system ask you to enter your new password after you enter the validation code
14:32:13  <TrueBrain> yeah, but I wonder if that is more a habbit or any real reason
14:32:29  <glx> so like new account without creating a new account
14:32:42  <TrueBrain> my method makes the validation mail only validate stuff .. while most methods don't validate, they open a door for you :p
14:32:46  <TrueBrain> glx: exactly
14:32:47  <Yexo> in your proposed scheme: what happens if someone else enters my username and email and a random new password? If I ignore the email, can I still login with the old password?
14:32:56  <TrueBrain> Yexo: of course
14:33:10  <Yexo> then it's fine :)
14:33:25  <TrueBrain> I guess there is the only pitfall, when you click the link while you didn't requested a new password :p
14:33:35  <Yexo> I was about to point that out :)
14:33:47  <Yexo> but then you can use the same system again, and request a nwe password :)
14:33:53  <TrueBrain> very true :)
14:34:03  <Yexo> but at that point your password is (temporarily) known by someone else
14:34:40  <TrueBrain> see, my method is one less page for me to make :p
14:34:48  <Yexo> yes, but it's also less secure
14:35:01  <Yexo> 1. I enter truebrain / truebrain@openttd.org
14:35:18  <TrueBrain> it does require a stupid action from my side, but yes
14:35:18  <Yexo> 2. I wait for you to click the link in the email while trying every minute to log in with the new password
14:35:36  <Yexo> 3. As soon as you click the link, I change the email so effectively taking over your account
14:35:45  <Yexo> it does require a stupid action from my side, but yes <- users are stupid
14:35:50  <glx> any sane user won't click on the link ;)
14:36:04  <glx> only Ammler can do that ;)
14:36:07  <TrueBrain> fair enough Yexo, I will make the password after the validation
14:37:32  <TrueBrain> I wonder in what time you can brute force the validation code :p
14:39:26  <Yexo> just make the validation code long enough and it'll be easier to brute-force the passwords
14:39:37  <TrueBrain> hehe :)
14:40:27  <Yexo> or after 3 tries reset the validation code, so the users has to go through the request validation code process again
14:40:53  <TrueBrain> then I can make it impossible for you to ever use the password recovery :p
14:41:38  <Yexo> you can only do that by doing a lot of requests to the server, and I hope you'll ban users doing that :)
14:41:42  <OwenS> I didn't know the Pirate Party had officially registered in the UK
14:42:07  <TrueBrain> Yexo: if I hacked your account, and I want to keep you from recovering, I can do that :p
14:42:17  <TrueBrain> even completely invisible in the logs
14:42:39  <Yexo> TrueBrain: if you hacked my account you can also change the email so I can't use recovery anymore
14:42:51  <TrueBrain> but that any sysop can spot immediatly ;)
14:43:43  <Yexo> <TrueBrain> even completely invisible in the logs <- you'll have to do N requests to the server for every time I try validation, how is that "invisible in the logs"? (where N is the max number of tries before resetting the validation code)
14:44:03  <TrueBrain> Yexo: remember: 6 hits per second ;)
14:44:20  <TrueBrain> but okay, I guess the chances of that happening for openttd.org are all VERY slim :)
14:44:30  <Yexo> TrueBrain: so set the max number of tries to 10.000
14:44:37  <TrueBrain> yeah :)
14:44:52  <Yexo> the chance that a random validation code is guessed in that many tries is very small, while you can notice that amount of requests
14:45:05  <TrueBrain> true :)
14:49:49  <TrueBrain> I wonder if I can unify the validation stuff to work for all cases
14:49:58  <TrueBrain> as I don't feel copy/pasting so much :P
14:57:56  <Eddi|zuHause> "there was a javascript error. please use another browser"
14:58:01  <Eddi|zuHause> fuck you.
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15:03:26  <Rubidium> that's exactly what IE6 users think when Windows Update talks about security issues with IE6
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15:04:52  <Gekz_> /wc
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15:05:19  <TrueBrain> Gekz_ wanted us all to know he was going to take a dump
15:05:24  <TrueBrain> how nice of him
15:09:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17284 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqvm.cpp: -Fix [Squirrel]: stack was not always cleared properly with tail recursion
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15:57:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r17285 /extra/website/ (12 files in 4 dirs): [Website] -Add: a way to recover (read: reset) your password. For those special people ;)
15:57:42  <TrueBrain> Ammler: I would like to dedicate this commit to you
15:58:27  <Ammler> he, nice, do you need both?
15:58:48  <Ammler> something I don't like on redmine, you need the email address to recover
15:59:18  <TrueBrain> here too :)
15:59:26  <TrueBrain> if you can't remember that, you are .. wlel .. not smart :p
16:00:00  <Ammler> well, mostly it works with guessing.
16:00:15  <Ammler> but on websites you lost the pw, you do the same with the emailaddress.
16:01:31  <TrueBrain> if you lose both, you are not smart :)
16:01:39  <TrueBrain> but okay, I guess that means I dedicated this commit to the wrong person
16:01:43  <TrueBrain> :p
16:01:49  <TrueBrain> maybe a: recover email address :p
16:01:51  <TrueBrain> and recover username
16:01:57  <TrueBrain> which blindly picks a username from the database
16:01:59  <TrueBrain> in case you lost that too
16:02:16  <Ammler> wiki and blog just need username.
16:02:38  <Ammler> is that kind of spam protection?
16:03:40  <Ammler> well, anyway, nice to have recover possibilty.
16:04:12  <Ammler> hmm, glx?
16:04:46  <TrueBrain> Ammler: yes, it is spam protection
16:04:51  <TrueBrain> I know too many sites you only need to fill in your username
16:04:55  <glx> what ?
16:05:07  <TrueBrain> which I sadly enough have seen abused more then I would like to admit .. just to annoy me :(
16:05:27  <Ammler> glx: didn't get your highlight :-)
16:05:55  <TrueBrain> so, only a profile page is left ..
16:06:44  <glx> Ammler: read a few lines above the highlight :)
16:06:48  <Ammler> so you don't use your openttd.org address for?
16:07:24  <Ammler> glx: yeah, me is trying to hack your account :-P
16:08:53  <Ammler> TrueBrain: I hope, you don't ban people, which try to many times ;-)
16:09:05  <Ammler> +o
16:09:35  <TrueBrain> depends what they try too many times
16:09:54  <TrueBrain> I tend to ban people who annoy me too many times :p :p :p
16:09:56  * TrueBrain hugs Ammler
16:09:57  <Ammler> in my case: guessing the address
16:10:07  <TrueBrain> don't forget your password in the first place, is my advise
16:11:59  <TrueBrain> (or 'sharing' how you called it :p)
16:12:04  <TrueBrain> I should stop being so mean to people ...
16:12:04  <Belugas> mmmh.. good advice, but too late for me...
16:12:07  * TrueBrain goes sit in a corner :)
16:12:10  * TrueBrain hugs Belugas
16:12:16  <TrueBrain> which password you forgot?
16:12:19  <Ammler> a validation email is sent to this address to validate your request
16:12:31  <Ammler> this message appears before I hit the submit button
16:12:46  <TrueBrain> yup, as it says: "is sent"
16:12:50  <TrueBrain> not: will be
16:13:02  <Belugas> my mian openttd one.  So i rely only on my ssh key (or whatever it is called)
16:13:10  <TrueBrain> hehe :)
16:13:17  <TrueBrain> Belugas: you already signed up for your LDAP account?
16:13:37  <Ammler> TrueBrain: "before"
16:13:52  <TrueBrain> Belugas: btw, soon SSH key will be the only way to access your SSH account .. passwords will stop to work ;)
16:13:53  <Belugas> since i have no idea what it means, the answer must be "no"
16:13:56  <Ammler> and it also is there, if I use thw wrong address
16:14:18  <TrueBrain> Belugas: hehe :) You haven't tried to login on any webservices lately ;)
16:14:55  <Belugas> nope, a bit too busy either with resuming work, music playing or family "fun"
16:15:33  <Yexo> http://code.google.com/p/geogen/ <- me likes :)
16:15:38  <glx> Belugas: merge your accounts and you'll get a new password ;)
16:15:39  <Yexo> too bad it doesn't compile :(
16:15:58  <Belugas> oooch... bugs.openttd.org rejected me... right...
16:17:36  <glx> just merge your accounts :)
16:19:36  <Belugas> trying it now
16:20:07  <Belugas> ouch... 2 out of 3 passwords forgotten
16:20:26  <TrueBrain> Belugas: so no worries in that case ;)
16:20:26  <TrueBrain> Yexo: I said to a few days ago too :)
16:20:26  <TrueBrain> follow the white rabbit :)
16:20:26  <TrueBrain> Ammler: so without you requesting it you magicly got a recovery in your mailbox?
16:20:52  <Yexo> <TrueBrain> Yexo: I said to a few days ago too :) <- what?
16:22:16  <Ammler> TrueBrain: I did request it.
16:22:29  <Belugas> okok... i'll do that at home, maybe some passwords are still present somewhere...
16:23:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r17286 /extra/website/account/forms.py: [Website] -Fix (r17285): if there already was an error, stop checking for any others (which triggers internal errors)
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16:39:54  <TrueBrain> [18:24] <Yexo> <TrueBrain> Yexo: I said to a few days ago too :) <- what? <- that geogen is nice :)
16:40:04  <TrueBrain> Belugas: I can help you out if you like
16:40:08  <Yexo> ah :)
16:40:29  <Yexo> I wasn't online this weekend, so that's why I probably missed that
16:40:39  <TrueBrain> oh, even if you were here, you most likely missed it :)
16:40:51  <TrueBrain> but I just wanted to tell you I liked it too :)
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16:51:13  <Belugas> TrueBrain, it would be usefull, i guess
16:51:31  <Belugas> although i would not be able to read the mail up until i'd be home...
16:58:11  *** Spoons is now known as FauxFaux
17:07:17  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Ah, you do have signup and merge pages already, so that's what you were writing
17:09:02  <TrueBrain> Belugas: hehe :) Well, signup for an account (via merge) and fill in as many accounts as you can remember. Let me know when you did. Do not activate anything just yet ;)
17:09:11  <TrueBrain> blathijs: we have that for a few days now :p
17:09:57  <blathijs> Didn't see it yet
17:10:09  <TrueBrain> blathijs: then you don't login to the services that often ;) :p
17:10:24  <blathijs> Hmm, it seems my username doesn't exist on www.openttd.org anymore (as in, the merge tool says it doesn't)
17:10:31  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Nope, hardly ever :-p
17:10:58  <TrueBrain> what do you think your username is? :p
17:11:04  <blathijs> blathijs
17:11:08  <TrueBrain> really? :)
17:11:14  <blathijs> Or did openttd.org get an auth overhaul before?
17:11:24  <blathijs> My firefox lists blathijs, and I remember using blathijs
17:11:25  <TrueBrain> nope, it hasn't changed in over a year
17:11:33  <TrueBrain> I haven't that on list anywhere :p
17:11:38  <Rubidium> blathijs: what username did you use for svn?
17:11:47  <blathijs> matthijs, probably
17:11:56  <TrueBrain> tha tI haved listed in bugs, wiki and www
17:11:57  <TrueBrain> ;)
17:12:03  <Belugas> TrueBrain, 1/3 performed
17:12:09  <blathijs> matthijs gives an incorrect password, so I'll have another look
17:12:10  <TrueBrain> no user-system knows blathijs, sorry :)
17:12:34  <blathijs> TrueBrain: I think that that the www.openttd.org did get an overhaul then, but probably quite some time ago
17:12:47  <blathijs> Before secure.openttd.org and the ssh svn stuff
17:12:52  <TrueBrain> Belugas: you can now continue with step 2/3 and 3/3 ;) When activating, all 3 accounts will be linked :)
17:13:09  <TrueBrain> the new website went live 18 months ago or so :p
17:13:29  <TrueBrain> but yes, the website before that, had blathijs :p
17:13:37  <TrueBrain> long long long terribly long ago :p
17:13:38  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: more like 12 months (with the new server IIRC)
17:14:14  <TrueBrain> blathijs: I guess you are not Matthijs which is listed on www. :p
17:14:19  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Ah, that was my question
17:14:27  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Oh, that might also be the case
17:14:34  <blathijs> I probably never registered on the new website
17:14:37  <TrueBrain> I don't think your lastname starts with a H :p
17:14:43  <blathijs> Nope
17:14:55  <blathijs> Bah, so now I don't have the matthijs username? :-)
17:15:07  <TrueBrain> I can fix that for you  :p
17:15:17  <TrueBrain> but it might not be so nice :p
17:16:44  <blathijs> Actually, it is fixed right now
17:16:56  <blathijs> since the other matthijs hasn't registered for an LDAP account yet
17:17:04  <blathijs> so now "matthijs" is mine again, also on www. :-)
17:17:10  <TrueBrain> no, but you will fail to activate your account :)
17:17:32  <TrueBrain> or so I hope, else I did something terrible wrong :p
17:17:46  <blathijs> I just activated my account and logged in to www.
17:17:52  <TrueBrain> auch :p
17:17:56  <blathijs> Why?
17:18:05  <blathijs> I didn't link in any www. account
17:18:19  <TrueBrain> euhm .. let me explain to you in private :p
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17:18:51  <frosch123> he, which matthijs just got commit access? :p
17:19:02  <TrueBrain> all of them! OH NO! :)
17:19:54  <frosch123> i should register as orudge just in case you want to merge with the forums :p
17:20:45  <TrueBrain> ghehe :)
17:20:48  <orudge> frosch123: tsk
17:21:04  <TrueBrain> which brings us to the question: orudge: do you think it would be somehow possible to link our LDAP to the forums?
17:21:35  <orudge> TrueBrain: well, possibly
17:21:50  <orudge> something I've been vaguely planning for years is a "single sign-on" system for the forums and associated sites
17:22:05  <orudge> currently a couple of sites use the forum database, but that is basically by directly linking to it, which obviously isn't ideal
17:22:06  <orudge> so, hmm
17:22:08  <TrueBrain> I hope openttd.org is that by the end of next month ;)
17:22:13  <orudge> if you/we can come up with a system, then sure ;)
17:22:19  <SpComb> OpenID!
17:22:24  <SpComb> orudge@tt-forums.net
17:22:29  <TrueBrain> well, we could link the LDAP of OpenTTD.org directly to tt-forums
17:22:38  <TrueBrain> meaning when you create an account there, you also hav eone for all openttd.org services
17:23:25  <SpComb> openttd.org user registrations go into LDAP?
17:23:29  <orudge> woo, my accounts are, it seems, merged
17:23:51  <TrueBrain> SpComb: as of a few days, yes
17:23:58  <SpComb> not bad
17:24:03  <SpComb> we also did an LDAP migration this weekend
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17:24:12  <SpComb> from NIS :/
17:24:20  <SpComb> with custom and buggy user management scripts
17:24:27  <SpComb> and ten years of legacy users
17:25:31  <orudge> hmm, well, phpBB does support LDAP
17:26:05  <TrueBrain> problem only is that tt-forums is off-site for openttd.org
17:26:10  <orudge> well, yes
17:26:43  <orudge> it might be a plan to set up some sort of LDAP server for tt-forums (of course, that'd also mean importing thousands of users and the like, not a small undertaking)
17:26:49  <orudge> of course, security with non-local links and the like may be issues
17:27:02  <orudge> anyway, thoughts are welcome. I must get on with some other work just now
17:27:29  <blathijs> Running LDAP over SSL might be sufficient
17:27:40  <TrueBrain> and only allow certain IPs
17:28:04  <blathijs> though you might want to have some syncing / master slave setup instead, so tt-forums won't die when the openttd server is unreachable :-)
17:28:28  <TrueBrain> and tt-forums is a superset of openttd.org .. dunno if LDAP has anything for that
17:29:03  <orudge> well
17:29:10  <orudge> perhaps just have the one forum database
17:29:21  <blathijs> Well, if you merge the domains, you would import everything from the forum into openttd ldap I guess
17:29:29  <orudge> which we could import the openttd things into (and watch out for rogue users trying to fake me ;))
17:29:45  <orudge> or something along those lines
17:29:49  <TrueBrain> orudge: the openttd ldap is very custom; merging that with the forums might be a bit too much
17:29:53  <orudge> hmm
17:29:56  <TrueBrain> (we use groups for authentication)
17:29:58  <TrueBrain> authorization
17:30:00  <TrueBrain> lol
17:30:14  <orudge> we'd have to look into it more
17:30:19  <orudge> anyway, I must really get on with work now, heh :)
17:30:28  <TrueBrain> :)
17:30:30  <TrueBrain> enjoy!
17:30:34  <SpComb> TrueBrain: out of curiosity, do you have your structure documented somewhere?
17:30:40  <orudge> the joys of extended MAPI
17:30:43  <TrueBrain> SpComb: no; why?
17:34:34  <SpComb> dunno, wondering how people use LDAP
17:35:50  <TrueBrain> ah; well, I can document it
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17:39:01  <Chris_Booth> what is the openttd bug report website?
17:39:14  <TrueBrain> http://bugs.openttd.org
17:39:17  <TrueBrain> who would have guessed
17:41:13  <Chris_Booth> you
17:42:17  <TrueBrain> orudge: I will now merge your SSH account with LDAP (no need for any action from your side)
17:42:26  <orudge> TrueBrain: OK
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17:43:34  <TrueBrain> orudge: all done
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17:45:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17287 /trunk/src/lang/ (latvian.txt polish.txt):
17:45:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 32 changes by dzhins
17:45:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: polish - 1 changes by Kogut
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17:51:26  <orudge> TrueBrain: well, I can login, so that seems to have worked at least :)
17:51:42  <TrueBrain> of course :) :p
17:52:12  <orudge> hmm
17:52:31  <orudge> out of curiosity, why is the shell openttd-shell.sh and what is special about that? I've not logged into the server in a while, don't remember that ;)
17:54:11  <TrueBrain> it is new, with LDAP :)
17:54:23  <TrueBrain> in this case the shell is a symlink to /bin/sh
17:54:27  <TrueBrain> because you are a developer :p
17:54:32  <TrueBrain> and have access to the so called PAM-Web
17:54:49  <TrueBrain> if I setup any other VPS (and another PAM), like for NoAI, they will have very restricted access
17:54:58  <TrueBrain> that wrapper-script will ensure me I can restrict the access
17:55:23  <TrueBrain> (as I can only give 1 user 1 shell, this allows me to have different systems behave differently on login)
17:55:42  <TrueBrain> there are other solutions, within LDAP even, but this is the most clear I think :)
17:56:44  <OwenS> TrueBrain: So, in other words, you go "is this user a member of this group?" :P
17:56:58  <SpComb> OpenSSH takes an AllowGroups conf option
17:57:08  <SpComb> if OpenSSH is your only login
17:57:15  <TrueBrain> well, OpenSSH doesn't, but the nss-ldapd does
17:57:25  <TrueBrain> (restriction at PAM level is MUCH easier :p)
17:57:38  <TrueBrain> but that doesn't give the ability to give some people other shells then others
17:58:00  <TrueBrain> like: I want a /bin/sh. But if OwenS would to have a NoAI project, he should only be able to use the svn binary
17:58:12  <TrueBrain> this is not possible via AllowGroups ;)
17:58:49  <TrueBrain> so I guess what OwenS suggests is not true: you cannot login in our PAM-Web. Not because of the script, but because sshd denies you (because of you not listed via NSS :p)
18:00:25  <blathijs> 19:57:38 < TrueBrain> but that doesn't give the ability to give some people other shells then others <-- That's easy, but you want to give some systems other shells than others
18:00:49  <TrueBrain> blathijs: yeah, indeed :)
18:02:04  <TrueBrain> 10% of our users logged in the past few days .. that is much more than I expected :)
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18:03:19  <blathijs> Yeah, indeed
18:04:44  <TrueBrain> stupid Redmine doesn't support LDAP group filtering :(
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18:46:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translator * r17288 /trunk/src/lang/ (22 files in 2 dirs): -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: fix newlines (had to test a new commit system)
18:47:01  <TrueBrain> oaky .. that clearly fails :p
18:57:14  *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd
18:57:33  <TrueBrain> wb Yexo :)
18:57:39  <TrueBrain> when will you be integrating geocon? :p
18:57:45  <TrueBrain> geogen even
18:57:46  <TrueBrain> lol
18:58:00  <Yexo> As soon as I have a reactino from the author ;)
18:58:26  <TrueBrain> I wonder why he made it for Squirrel :p
18:59:07  <Yexo> I think (but not sure) that the author is CommanderZ, who has done openttd map gen patches before (so the intention might always have been eventually integrating it)
18:59:34  <TrueBrain> ah :) Well, it seems a welcome addition, if you ask me :)
18:59:45  <TrueBrain> TGP is a big step forward, but far from perfect :)
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19:00:10  <Belugas> what??? Richk failed to do some proper coding???
19:00:11  <Yexo> I've already implemented something like it were the map generation was compeltely done in squirrel, but that was way too slow
19:00:32  <Yexo> the nice thing about geogen is that all expensive operations are in C++
19:00:37  <TrueBrain> Belugas: don't forget we finished it, so we are partly to blame :P
19:03:34  <Belugas> arrr arrrr arrrr
19:04:15  <TrueBrain> you are a pirate!
19:04:23  <TrueBrain> and we are all very very very scared
19:05:39  * valhallasw forces Belugas to watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsJyfN0ICU on repeat
19:06:00  <Belugas> at work?  of course NOT!
19:06:12  <Belugas> evilish youtube... NEVE TO BE TRUSTED!
19:06:14  * TrueBrain slaps valhallasw
19:06:19  * valhallasw runs ~/o/
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19:08:46  * TrueBrain gets revenge on valhallasw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd9mDTRiypw
19:09:08  <TrueBrain> worst translation ever
19:13:50  <valhallasw> IM NOT CLICKING >(^_^)<
19:14:27  <valhallasw> and then I switched windows, saw a link and clicked. IRC reflexes suck.
19:14:54  <Terkhen> maybe the second link helps me taking the first song out of my mind...
19:21:07  <Terkhen> great, now I can't take out of my mind the spanish version of the smurf theme
19:22:49  <glx> the french one came into my mind
19:28:16  <TrueBrain> enjoy it ;) The rest of the day!
19:31:18  <Rubidium> oh, it's post insane youtube songs?
19:31:47  <Rubidium> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iujv_-p69wU
19:32:41  <TrueBrain> a song with true potential .. just .. the singers fucked that up
19:33:22  <Rubidium> well, what do you want when an American is singing Japanese ;)
19:37:30  <TrueBrain> I love youtube .. you click a song, you see the right clip, and a COMPELTELY different song :p
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19:38:24  <TrueBrain> and youtube should normalize all sound
19:39:48  <Rubidium> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrqNKzNrwLU <- also something of superb quality
19:40:40  <glx> yeah minimoni :)
19:41:32  <Rubidium> oh, an expert! :)
19:41:45  <TrueBrain> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta-ATEOOo8M <- this ALWAYS amazes me ...
19:42:25  <Rubidium> hmm, I think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZGn-nn8bBA is related to what valhallasw posted
19:43:19  <TrueBrain> "I decided to donate the sum of ,500,000 (three million five hundred thousand dollars) to you for the good work of the lord, and also to help the motherless and less privilege and also for the assistance of the widows and unfortunate mothers. At the moment I cannot take any telephone calls right now due to the fact that my husband's relatives are always around me and trying to see if they can overhear my conversations and my health status as well.
19:43:21  <TrueBrain> " <- WHOHO!!!!!!!!
19:43:43  <TrueBrain> "NB: I will appreciate your utmost confidentiality in this matter until the task is accomplished as I don't want anything that will jeopardize my wish." <- DOH!
19:43:44  <TrueBrain> sorry ...
19:43:51  <OwenS> lol
19:44:28  <Rubidium> "Sorry, but I got no use for Zambabwian dollars"
19:45:37  <Rubidium> *Zimbabwean
19:47:03  <TrueBrain> I always love spam .. really .. I do
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19:50:39  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: no need to start sending my spam I already received
19:50:43  <TrueBrain> I do like unique entries :)
19:51:02  <TrueBrain> http://www.youtube.com/user/animusicllc?blend=1&ob=4 <- do give slightly different youtube links (while we are at that)
19:51:03  <Rubidium> but... but... this one has another unique ID!
19:51:29  <TrueBrain> if you would have 2 the same unique IDs, they don't be unique IDs :p
19:51:33  <TrueBrain> but they are called MessageIDs :p
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20:02:06  <OwenS> TrueBrain: OK, regarding that animusic link, I can only say... W.T.F.
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20:13:28  <_ln> no linux for the new PS3 then
20:18:28  <_ln> equals no openttd for the new PS3
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20:25:16  <OwenS> _ln: Have they said they're removing the OtherOS feature or just that it will be unsupported?
20:26:29  <glx> they remove it
20:26:30  <_ln> ""The new PS3 system will focus on delivering games and other entertainment content, and users will not be able to install other Operating Systems to the new PS3 system," Sony stated in the press materials.", arstechnica quotes.
20:28:05  <SmatZ> _ln: there is running linux on several devices that weren't supposed to be hacked
20:28:43  <glx> SmatZ: PS3 was not hacked to run linux, it was a native option
20:29:22  <SmatZ> :(
20:29:37  <SmatZ> glx: it doesn't mean it won't be hacked though
20:29:43  <SmatZ> but I don't understand the decision
20:29:48  <SmatZ> ah of course
20:30:06  <SmatZ> PS3 is sold under manufacturing cost
20:30:10  <glx> btw they also removed PS1 and PS2 game support too
20:30:23  <SmatZ> and the sold software, as games, provides the revenue
20:30:50  <_ln> not all PS3s had PS1/2 support for a long time anyway.
20:31:35  <OwenS> PS1 game support is still there
20:31:42  <OwenS> PS1 games have always been fully emulated
20:32:08  <_ln> hmm. didn't know that. well, i've only had a PS3 for a month.
20:32:48  <OwenS> I wonder how long it will be before someone cracks the PS3Slim's copy protection to run Linux and the flood gates open for pirated games...
20:33:15  * _ln has run OpenTTD on PS3 and 40" tv.
20:33:28  <valhallasw>  http://link.marktplaats.nl/274237508
20:33:31  <valhallasw> er
20:33:36  <valhallasw> wrong button >_<
20:33:43  <valhallasw> right-click-paste kinda sucks :')
20:33:56  <SmatZ> :)
20:34:35  <OwenS> I've not bothered installing Linux on my PS3 as it would only be useful if I could use it as a HTPC. Which you can't
20:36:25  <Belugas> bye bye
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20:41:29  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is weeds already over?
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20:42:06  <Eddi|zuHause> 11 episodes is a very strange number for a whole season
20:44:06  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, tv.com said there was an episode yesterday
20:44:28  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Wouldn't be too unusual for a british one
20:44:37  <OwenS> Or one which got cancelled :p
20:45:00  <Eddi|zuHause> no... weeds already had a 2 season order last year
20:45:22  <Eddi|zuHause> tv.com says the season has 13 episodes
20:45:43  <Chris_Booth> hello
20:45:59  <Chris_Booth> i have found a bug in openttd
20:46:03  *** Nickman_87 is now known as Nickman87
20:46:10  <Chris_Booth> i have roported it
20:46:43  <Eddi|zuHause> if you reported it, then the right people will get noticed
20:46:52  <Eddi|zuHause> notified
20:46:55  <Chris_Booth> you can add any wagon you like to a pax only multiple unit train such as a TGV in the 2cc set
20:46:56  <Eddi|zuHause> whatever
20:47:27  <Yexo> Chris_Booth: please report bugs to the correct people next time
20:47:43  <Eddi|zuHause> and you confirmed first that it is a bug of openttd and not of the 2cc set?
20:48:26  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: that's exactly the reason I closed the report :)
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20:51:07  <Chris_Booth> yeah it works in UKRS and DBXL
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20:51:28  <Chris_Booth> Yexo dont close the report me and ammler tested it
20:52:06  <Yexo> <Chris_Booth> yeah it works in UKRS and DBXL <- Now it's even more likely it's a bug of the 2cc set
20:52:26  <Chris_Booth> no the same issue happens in UKRS and DBXL
20:52:30  <Yexo> Bugs in NewGRFs should NOT be reported on bugs.openttd.org, but instead in the topic of that newgrf (or whatever website
20:52:31  <Chris_Booth> and jap set
20:52:36  <Chris_Booth> and nars 2
20:52:50  <Chris_Booth> it happens in all new grfs
20:52:57  <Chris_Booth> and doesnt happen in ttdpatch
20:53:02  <Ammler> what is the FS# ?
20:53:07  <Yexo> 3146
20:53:15  <Chris_Booth> i could even create screen shots
20:53:19  <Chris_Booth> ask ammler
20:53:45  <Yexo> Chris_Booth / Ammler: reopened the bug report, please add a comment with more information
20:54:18  <Ammler> well, it is obvious, you can't attach a waggon to some engines.
20:54:27  <Ammler> but you can attach the engine to the waggons.
20:54:50  <Chris_Booth> let me make some screen shots
20:54:54  <Ammler> (wasn't able to the same with patch)
20:55:16  <Yexo> Ammler: now that ^^ is a clear description
20:55:35  <Yexo> but I probably won't be able to help you any further, ask frosch123
20:55:56  <frosch123> and I probably won'T be able to help you any further today :p
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20:57:03  <Ammler> :-)
20:57:41  <planetmaker> lol :-)
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21:23:29  <Chris_Booth> i added screen shot to my bug report
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21:28:17  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
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22:00:17  <Terkhen> good night
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22:13:12  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... in germany are so many elections, you could spend days with calculating possible outcomes and coalitions...
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23:06:27  <PeterT> does it count as updating a patch when it works for a newer version anyway?
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23:26:50  <dkyle> guys how do i change al players company names?
23:27:12  <Tefad> magic
23:27:31  <dkyle> ok :S
23:27:33  <SmatZ> hehe
23:27:45  <SmatZ> who is al players?
23:27:46  <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho
23:27:47  <z-MaTRiX> ;>
23:27:49  <SmatZ> hello z-MaTRiX
23:27:51  <Tefad> requires level 3 wizardy skill
23:27:56  <SmatZ> :-)
23:28:40  <dkyle> the computer player how do i change thier company names...
23:28:53  <SmatZ> dkyle: there is noai tutorial somewhere on the wiki...
23:29:12  <Tefad> no way to change name from the console interface?
23:29:17  <SmatZ> dkyle: are you writing a noai?
23:29:22  <SmatZ> no
23:29:30  <Tefad> oh so it really is magical.
23:29:58  <dkyle> wtf is a noai??
23:30:05  <Tefad> it's the ai system
23:30:08  <Tefad> it runs through noai
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23:30:22  <dkyle> how do i get that lol
23:30:25  <Tefad> AIs run through it rather
23:30:27  <Tefad> it's built-in
23:30:34  <Tefad> you can't change the name of other players.
23:30:40  <dkyle> kool
23:30:45  <Tefad> however you can edit AIs to choose a different name when they initalize.
23:31:04  <dkyle> what about getting the original computer players?? for openttd?
23:31:13  <SmatZ> what about no?
23:31:21  <Tefad> hahahahahahaha the old AI is so screwed
23:31:24  <SmatZ> they're gone
23:31:25  <SmatZ> for good
23:31:32  <dkyle> haha
23:31:48  <dkyle> tefad how do i get them to choose a diff name?
23:32:05  <Tefad> edit their script
23:32:17  <dkyle> how do i do that?
23:32:29  <Tefad> notepad.exe vi .. your text editor of choice
23:32:40  <Tefad> depending on the encoding, notepad.exe may be a bad one.. might use wordpad instead.
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23:33:43  <SmatZ> hmm is dkyle a troll?
23:34:05  <PeterT> he seems like a pre 0.5 user
23:34:34  <Tefad> my openttd urges come and go
23:34:41  <SmatZ> "I love the old AI because it had so great company names!"
23:34:51  <PeterT> hehe
23:34:56  <Tefad> so i get out of date from time to time..
23:35:06  <Tefad> opengfx = awesome btw.
23:35:12  <SmatZ> :)
23:35:20  <Tefad> is the game standalone yet?
23:35:23  <PeterT> opensfx is ok
23:35:33  <PeterT> some sounds, like the bomb
23:35:36  <PeterT> are really cool
23:35:43  <Tefad> i use nosound
23:35:46  <SmatZ> Tefad: good question, actually it may be
23:36:00  <OwenS> It should be with NewGFX and Nosound
23:38:11  <SmatZ> yay
23:38:12  <SmatZ> it works
23:38:17  <SmatZ> opengfx + opensfx :)
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23:39:48  <SmatZ> when original data files are removed
23:39:48  <PeterT> why wouldnt it?
23:39:59  <PeterT> oh
23:41:00  <SmatZ> hmm but it segfaults
23:41:04  <SmatZ> 95% working
23:41:08  <SmatZ> now WHY
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23:42:54  <dkyle> im back soz got cut off
23:43:09  <dkyle> how do i change the script of al's lol
23:44:23  <SmatZ> and unreproducible
23:44:25  <SmatZ> boooo
23:45:07  <SmatZ> dkyle: http://wiki.openttd.org/AI :)
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23:45:11  <SmatZ> ...
23:45:22  <SmatZ> I have to be faster!
23:46:06  <glx> you were fast enough I think
23:46:29  <SmatZ> hehe
23:46:57  <SmatZ> ok, reproduced
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