Config
Log for #openttd on 28th August 2009:
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00:13:09  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, sure.
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04:20:16  * needles found openttd looking for ttd after 10 years... like a kid in a candy store ;o
04:22:24  <R0b0t1> I got here through some obscure wikipedia/google collage of tabs.
04:22:30  * R0b0t1 shrugs
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06:55:02  <planetmaker> hehe.
06:55:12  <planetmaker> I guess I ended up here also through some google-mania ;-)
06:55:53  <planetmaker> and good morning #openttd
06:56:07  <Noldo> morning
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07:03:55  <Terkhen> good morning
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09:02:45  <TrueBrain> morning
09:03:17  <Markk> "Oh... guys? Don't stay in here all day. I had to take the batteries out of the carbon monoxide detector; it was beeping all night."
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09:10:22  <petern> ..
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09:58:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm here pretty much because my brother wanted to play multiplayer...
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10:00:12  <Prof_Frink> I've always been here.
10:03:35  <SpComb> who'se Prof_Frink?
10:03:42  <SpComb> -e
10:04:11  <Prof_Frink> I'm Spartacus.
10:05:07  <Rubidium> then who's Sportacus?
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11:34:57  <TrueBrain> stupid OSX .. blegh blegh blegh
11:35:01  <TrueBrain> always somewhere where it stops
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12:34:06  <Belugas> good day
12:34:28  <Belugas> where is my coffee? where is the coffee machine? where is the maker of the coffee beans?
12:34:32  <Belugas> I WANT COFFEE
12:35:02  <Noldo> add 'MY'
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12:42:39  <AdditionalData> Hi
12:45:26  <Rubidium> afternoon
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12:51:45  <Belugas> so... coffee tank full? checked. Credit cards deployed? Checked.  Test Scripts updated? Checked. Music available? Checked.  Transaction Simulator loaded? Checked.  Payment software loaded? Checked
12:51:49  <Belugas> will to go?
12:51:52  <Belugas> oooops...
12:52:03  <Rubidium> Home?
12:53:56  <AdditionalData> heh
12:54:20  <AdditionalData> I learned to greet the world in C ;)
12:54:26  <Doorslammer> Fail
12:54:30  <Belugas> yup, will to go <home>
12:54:36  <Doorslammer> Just found 3 tank engines that have done nothing
12:54:42  <Doorslammer> For 4 game years :/
12:55:01  <AdditionalData> a quick question, if you don't mind
12:55:06  <planetmaker> so your diplomacy was successful?
12:55:12  <AdditionalData> why does Visual Studio consider scanf to be unsafe?
12:55:17  <Belugas> one is called Thomas, the other Percy and the third is called Smurf
12:56:01  <Belugas> dunno, AdditionalData
12:56:15  <AdditionalData> it recommends scanf_s
12:56:19  <Noldo> AdditionalData: google
12:56:59  <AdditionalData> ah
12:57:05  <AdditionalData> found i
12:57:07  <AdditionalData> *it
12:57:19  <Belugas> i guess that question would get beter answer from M$ devs ;)
12:57:19  <AdditionalData> it seems that scanf doesn't prevent buffer overflow?
12:57:38  <AdditionalData> so MS introduced scanf_s, the "secure" version
12:57:45  <Noldo> if you use %s without limit
12:57:50  <AdditionalData> hmm
12:57:56  <AdditionalData> well i'm learning C
12:58:02  <Doorslammer> Fat Controller called them "Really Useless B#$#%%^"
12:58:04  <AdditionalData> so i'm trying to learn good practices
12:58:08  <petern> like gets() :D
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12:58:36  <AdditionalData> i made an app that loops until you feed it two numbers that add up to 23, then it quits
12:59:46  <AdditionalData> and i used scanf to read the numbers
13:00:30  <AdditionalData> IS that a Bad Thing(tm)?
13:01:13  <Belugas> I personally prefer to use InputQuery, and a try except on a StrToInt call
13:01:16  <Belugas> but...
13:01:20  <Belugas> that is not C ;)
13:01:35  <AdditionalData> ha :)
13:01:56  <AdditionalData> is OpenTTD still partially C++ or fully C++ now?
13:02:32  <Belugas> i'd say partially
13:02:36  <AdditionalData> ah
13:02:39  <Yexo> it's completely compiled as C++, but most likely some parts will still compile as C
13:02:59  <AdditionalData> So if I learn C the C++ is going to trip me up?
13:03:15  <planetmaker> probably.
13:03:25  <AdditionalData> thanks, i'm, going now
13:03:27  <AdditionalData> laters.
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13:03:46  <planetmaker> but you might still...
13:03:55  <planetmaker> ... understand it.
13:05:11  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17297 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix [part of FS#3120]: effect of pressing Ctrl was missed in a number of cases
13:05:16  <Belugas> fuck.. wrong merchant numbers
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13:06:07  <TB> whoho, I have OSX running on my machine :)
13:06:09  <TB> took me long enough ;)
13:06:27  <glx> on amd ?
13:06:52  <TB> no, Intel
13:06:54  <TB> and native :)
13:06:57  <glx> I'm still fighting with 10.5 on vmware
13:07:21  <glx> I hangs on blue screen with multicolor spinner
13:07:26  <TB> will try to install a clean OSX later, but I required a working OSX first to create a bootstrap ... :p
13:07:33  <TB> hahaha, always nice ... :s
13:07:43  <TB> first, let me see how to compile OpenTTD here, to check how long that would take :)
13:07:52  <glx> hehe
13:08:00  <TB> if I had ANY idea how ...
13:08:01  <glx> install macports first :)
13:08:13  <TB> how? :p
13:08:21  <glx> though svn is included in leopard IIRC
13:08:40  <glx> so it's one less thing to compile
13:08:53  <TB> but .. how? :)
13:08:59  <glx> http://www.macports.org/
13:09:38  <glx> oh you'll need to install xcode first :P
13:09:44  <planetmaker> congratz, TB :-)
13:09:55  <TB> 'forbidden' :s
13:10:04  <TB> (the dmg for macports)
13:10:07  <TB> tnx planetmaker  :)
13:10:34  <planetmaker> which reminds me... I should get a new HD today, the new OSX and then try what you asked me :-)
13:10:41  <planetmaker> you wanted 10.4 image, right?
13:11:03  <TB> 10.4, 10.5, 10.6 .. all if anywhere near possible :)
13:11:19  <planetmaker> 10.5 won't be possible. I don't own it. I hope to get 10.6 today.
13:11:35  <planetmaker> and that I won't need anything near a bundle, but that it'll work for 29EUR.
13:11:38  <TB> but 10.4 would be a good enough test-bed ;)
13:11:42  <planetmaker> I care shit about the iLive and iWorks
13:11:46  <planetmaker> (I have iWorks)
13:12:10  <TB> doesn't have OSX by default some package manager?
13:12:15  <planetmaker> If 10.6 is as good as 10.4, then I prefer 10.6.
13:12:19  <planetmaker> I need to install that anyway.
13:12:40  <TB> well, as I said, I need an install inside virtualbox
13:12:40  <planetmaker> then I'll rip the image after a basic install and then continue to make it usable.
13:12:50  <Belugas> yup tyup yup.. no matter ho ready you are, things are doomed to break at the most inconvenient time...
13:12:51  <planetmaker> he, true. Forgot that.
13:12:51  <Belugas> shit
13:13:04  <planetmaker> ok.
13:13:20  * planetmaker hands Belugas a bit glue
13:13:22  <Belugas> no, not you.  me. at work
13:13:49  <planetmaker> I figured ;-)
13:15:56  <blathijs> TB: A friend of mine was having "forbidden" troubles with macports as well just now, seems somebody forgot a chmod :-)
13:16:22  <TB> fink has subversion 1.4.4 ....
13:16:33  <tdev> hi all
13:16:34  <TB> blathijs: sucks .....
13:16:41  <tdev> do you use code testing?
13:16:48  <tdev> as in unit tests or functional tests?
13:16:59  <TB> tdev: NoAI has a regression, but that is all
13:17:38  <tdev> TB, thanks
13:18:07  <TB> glx: how did you install xcode?
13:18:18  <glx> I got it from apple :)
13:18:39  <Yexo> tdev: we do live testing, as in: we release a nightly every day and let users test it ;)
13:18:57  <tdev> ;)
13:18:58  <TB> glx: hmm .. rquires an apple ADC account I guess?
13:19:10  <Rubidium> TB: you got one!
13:19:28  <glx> ADC account are free anyway
13:19:43  <TB> Rubidium: yeah .. even under my own name :p
13:21:32  <TB> although that doesn't seem activated .... :s
13:22:25  <tdev> RoR's new buildbot: http://188.40.228.51:8020/waterfall
13:22:31  <tdev> working quite well :)
13:23:53  <TB> Rubidium: you had a general account, not? As I have no clue why mines doesn't work :(
13:24:20  <Rubidium> hmm... your bouncer ain't connected ;)
13:24:43  <TB> I can't access my regular files, no :p
13:26:09  <TB> cool .. I click download, and I get the same page back
13:26:30  <TB> it started to download on the background ... never noticed :p
13:28:21  <TB> 2.2G ? Holy crap ...
13:28:34  <Rubidium> tdev: why are you trying to push us to use buildbot?
13:29:05  <Rubidium> cause we're not going to use it as we need to do too much modifications to it for it to work without destroying the website during builds
13:29:20  <tdev> Rubidium, i am not doing so
13:29:26  <tdev> i just need to use it for work
13:29:43  <tdev> and appearently my spam is not wished here
13:29:53  <tdev> thus, kthxbye
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13:30:12  <TB> op teentje getrapt" :) (sorry, can't translate that :p)
13:30:39  <blathijs> Touchy?
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13:34:34  <TB> xcode works ...
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13:35:32  <TB> macports still doesn't ....
13:38:13  <glx> open the console to check what's wrong
13:38:42  <TB> macports downloads give a "forbidden"
13:38:44  <TB> so ... ;)
13:38:47  <glx> ha
13:39:52  <glx> ho 1.8.0 is recent :)
13:39:58  <glx> I have 1.7.1
13:40:11  <TB> hehe
13:40:18  <TB> where ... can I see an application menu or what ever?
13:40:53  <planetmaker> usually in the Apps folder.
13:41:00  <glx> and indeed I can't get 1.8.0
13:41:03  <planetmaker> But it requires to be a *.app to be there
13:41:18  <TB> apps folder ...
13:41:24  <planetmaker> svn or hg don't show up for me either. Like command line tools on linux don't show up anywhere either.
13:41:33  <TB> ah, /Applications :)
13:41:35  <planetmaker> TB like OpenTTD.app
13:41:36  <Belugas> mmh.. interesting... i've got a script test for a Maestro UK  Chip'nPin card
13:41:41  <planetmaker> Those you can drag there.
13:41:47  <planetmaker> But I guess it nees a gui for that.
13:41:59  <glx> console and terminal are in Utilities :)
13:42:02  <planetmaker> otherwise: the usual places /bin /usr/bin
13:42:14  <glx> start them and lock them in the dock :)
13:42:21  <TB> planetmaker: I was more looking for a start menu of some kind
13:42:32  <TB> manual finding application is a bitch .. and using spotlight is annoying
13:42:38  <planetmaker> for what application, TB?
13:42:47  <TB> any!
13:43:06  <TB> I just installed nomachine, and it took long before spotlight saw it ...
13:43:15  <planetmaker> well... you may or may not have them in the /Application folder - depends upon the app ;-)
13:43:22  <TB> sucks
13:43:49  <TB> 3 gcc versions .. yippie! :p
13:43:59  <planetmaker> :-)
13:44:04  <glx> I have only 2 :)
13:44:14  <TB> :p :p
13:44:21  * planetmaker has also only two.
13:44:40  <glx> 10.4 and xcode 2.5 I guess
13:45:18  <glx> gcc-3.3 and gcc-4.0
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13:45:33  <planetmaker> hm... I might have gcc-3.3, too. Haven't actually used it then.
13:45:45  <TB> 3.3, 4.0 and 4.2 :p
13:45:50  <TB> k .. compiling OpenTTD ..
13:46:02  <planetmaker> I'm using so far xcode 2.4 on OSX 10.4 and a self-compiled gcc 4.5 from around one, two months ago
13:46:29  <planetmaker> the default gcc is form, thouhg 4.0
13:46:34  <planetmaker> *though
13:47:28  * planetmaker wonders what might be 10.6's default gcc.
13:47:30  <glx> I started a restauration to see if it could work, but there's no way to stop it and it's slow
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13:50:24  <Eddi|zuHause> http://cgi.ebay.de/Modellbahn-Spur-H0-Doppelte-Gleisverbindung-DDR-8360_W0QQitemZ310164209519QQcmdZViewItem <- hm, i think this is awfully expensive for a set that is missing two pieces
13:51:13  <TB> smallmap_gui ...
13:51:31  <Rubidium> TB: what's wrong with that?
13:51:32  <glx> that's fast TrueBrain
13:51:36  <SmatZ> maybe someone has just those two missing pieces :-P
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13:51:40  <TB> still dead slow ..
13:51:50  <SmatZ> TB: what did you do to TrueBrain?!
13:51:54  <glx> will not take 45m
13:51:55  <Rubidium> TB: beat's glx' 45 minutes though
13:52:03  <TB> it is idling till I get noMachine to work :p
13:52:05  <Rubidium> s/'s/s/
13:52:20  <TB> yeah, but beating glx' time wasn't hard
13:52:23  <TB> native vs emulated ..
13:52:36  <TB> although I am currently running the VESA driver ... :p
13:52:57  <TB> [SRC] Linking openttd
13:52:58  <TB> hmm
13:52:58  <glx> vmware is not really emulated, but without vmware video driver a VM is dead slow
13:53:08  <TB> real	6m48.586s
13:53:14  <glx> not bad
13:53:21  <TB> glx: because it gets emulated ;) But okay :)
13:53:32  <glx> cpu is not emulated :)
13:53:33  <TB> Rubidium: how long does the CF take to do 1 target?
13:53:38  <TB> glx: video is ;)
13:53:48  <glx> yes and it uses a core :)
13:53:53  <TB> hmm .. I need opensfx and opengfx
13:55:30  <TB> where did you put those on binaries, Rubidium ?
13:56:15  <Rubidium> http://binaries.openttd.org/installer/ (or http://mz.openttdcoop.org/bundles/open[gs]fx/)
13:56:28  <TB> they are not listed in index.html ... ;)
13:56:36  <Rubidium> TB: ~13 minutes per target
13:56:51  <Rubidium> TB: it's intentionally not listed in index.html
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13:57:35  <glx> hmm he will need 7zip :)
13:57:43  <TB> yup .. I don't have it, neither does fink :(
13:57:54  <Rubidium> then use mz
13:58:02  <TB> Rubidium: so I am faster than the CF? :s
13:58:14  <Rubidium> TB: how many cores?
13:58:27  <TB> one
13:58:34  <TB> well .. -j1
13:58:37  <TB> (and one core)
13:58:42  <Rubidium> so yes, then you're quite a bit faster than the CF
13:59:52  <glx> TB: not universal build though ;)
14:00:16  <TB> a single target, yes
14:00:21  <TB> whoho, it runs!
14:00:37  <TB> it looks ugly :p (screen-res is non-widescreen :p)
14:01:16  <TB> hmm .. opengfx on mz is not the one in BaNaNaS :(
14:01:47  <TB> haha, and downloading it doesn't fix it :p
14:02:08  <Eddi|zuHause> what's this sudden interest in macos all about?
14:02:18  <TB> OpenGFX.0.1.0_alpha6.tar vsopengfx-0.1.0-alpha6.tar
14:02:19  <Rubidium> TB: then the one on mz is newer
14:02:21  <TB> Eddi|zuHause: 'sudden'?
14:02:30  <TB> Eddi|zuHause: we have been trying for months, if not years
14:02:41  <Rubidium> *or* at least the md5 checksums differ
14:02:49  <Eddi|zuHause> well, "increased activity since yesterday"
14:03:01  <Ammler> [16:01] <TB> hmm .. opengfx on mz is not the one in BaNaNaS ? <-- the bananas version is the tar in the bundle, afaik.
14:03:18  <TB> Eddi|zuHause: yesterday? No again. But yes, I found a method that allows me to install it on my own machine, and glx found a way to install it on vmware
14:03:35  <Ammler> we made it that way, so windows user have access to the docs, without untar tool.
14:03:36  <TB> the naming difference is a bit silly
14:04:03  <TB> (as that will give bugreports :p)
14:04:33  <Eddi|zuHause> then i will wish you good luck with getting it to work ;)
14:04:43  <TB> Eddi|zuHause: tnx :)
14:05:48  <Eddi|zuHause> http://cgi.ebay.de/HO-Piko-kurze-gerade-Schienen-85-Stueck-Set-3_W0QQitemZ130326822540QQcmdZViewItem <- ok, this could solve my distinct lack of balancer pieces ;)
14:06:11  <TB> okay, now compiling an universal build .. we will see :)
14:06:25  <TB> Rubidium: you said 13 minutes per target, but doesn't it do 3 targets? Or does it really take 39 minutes?
14:10:04  <Rubidium> TB: it takes 2369 seconds
14:12:35  <TB> @calc 2369 / 3 / 60
14:12:35  <DorpsGek> TB: 13.1611111111
14:12:39  <TB> auch
14:12:39  <TB> k :)
14:12:40  <TB> tnx
14:20:43  <TB> going to install a retail OSX on my external drive ... ghehe :)
14:25:42  <TB> 17 minutes, universal build
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14:28:15  <TB> @calc 17 * 60 / 2369
14:28:15  <DorpsGek> TB: 0.43056141832
14:28:19  <TB> auch :p
14:30:18  <glx> with all required libs?
14:30:27  <glx> and optional ones?
14:30:52  <TB> dunno
14:31:25  <TB> not libpng
14:31:48  <TB> not libicu
14:31:50  <TB> the rest seems so
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14:57:21  <Rubidium> TB: universal cross-build takes 20 minutes on my machine (-j1)
14:57:43  <Rubidium> on a Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T9400  @ 2.53GHz
15:06:09  <TB> I have an ...T5750
15:06:10  <TB> dunno the speed
15:06:18  <TB> 2 GHz :p
15:06:24  <TB> so native is faster than cross :p
15:07:43  <Rubidium> maybe I didn't use -O3 with the cross compiler
15:08:06  <TB> I used ./configure
15:08:09  <TB> no extra thingies
15:08:15  <TB> oh, to make the compiler
15:08:16  <TB> hehe, sorry :)
15:08:32  <TB> okay, retail install done .. going to try it out :)
15:09:02  <TB> 'top' really consumes 4% CPU :s
15:09:13  <TB> inefficient piece of crap
15:09:23  <TB> k, bbl ...
15:09:28  <Rubidium> ciao
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15:11:52  <Eddi|zuHause> why does the forum so frequently log me out?
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15:23:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17298 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#3153]: reloading an AI started a new AI in the first available company slot causing other AIs to be started
15:24:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17299 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: the tooltip could get truncated under some circumstances due to its custom string height determination
15:25:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17300 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix [FS#3120]: mention of Ctrl modifier was missing from some tooltips
15:25:50  <OwenS> Rubidium: Trying to get to r20000 faster? :p
15:26:05  <Rubidium> yeah
15:26:07  <OwenS> lol
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15:26:56  <OwenS> Apparently I have a lag of 2s to oftc today =/
15:27:33  <Eddi|zuHause> hey, someone with a worse ping than me. that's rare...
15:27:38  <OwenS> Perhaps that rTorrent is currently running at 1MB/s may be a part of it :p
15:27:53  <OwenS> 990ms, somewhat better
15:28:01  <glx> limit the up
15:28:09  <OwenS> It is limited
15:29:20  <Eddi|zuHause> limit it to something significantly less than the actual bandwidth
15:30:13  <OwenS> Hmm... dropping it down another 5kb/s seems to have hit the sweetspot
15:30:43  <Eddi|zuHause> and put irc packages into the prioritised queue
15:30:57  <OwenS> I would need a QOS capable router for that :p
15:31:31  <Aankhen``> Meh, QoS.  I enabled that on my router, doesn't seem to make any difference.
15:31:41  <OwenS> You need QoS aware apps first :p
15:32:04  <Aankhen``> Oh?  I thought it was just a matter of saying "stuff on this port is important, stuff on that port isn't". o_O
15:32:24  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's the easiest variant ;)
15:32:44  <OwenS> QoS normally works (or should work :P ) by using 4 bits in the IP header as the priority
15:33:03  <Aankhen``> I see.
15:33:13  <Eddi|zuHause> but the default settings here prioritise only small packets (ACK) and interactive ssh traffic
15:33:24  <Terkhen> 44 strings... it seems like I have some work to do :P
15:33:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i had to insert the irc traffic there manually
15:33:50  <OwenS> I have a feeling I'm going to get throttled tonight...
15:33:57  <Eddi|zuHause> and create a new queue for "unimportant" packets (i.e. torrent)
15:34:42  <OwenS> If all routers were IP QoS capable it would be easy: Just have the torrent client set it's QoS priority to -1...
15:34:59  <OwenS> Though that wouldn't work inbound...
15:35:32  <Eddi|zuHause> inbound bandwidth is usually shaped by dropping ACK packets
15:35:57  <Eddi|zuHause> any sane sender will then throttle their upload rate
15:36:00  <OwenS> Thats a rather crappy shaping method. Advertising an artificially low window size would be better...
15:36:28  <Eddi|zuHause> well, again, it's the easiest method
15:36:58  <OwenS> But it actually increases bandwidth wastage vs saying "I only have a packets worth of buffer left in my window, please slow down your sending"
15:38:20  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you basically throw away packets that you received perfectly well
15:38:27  <Xaroth> where's TrueBrain when you need him :/
15:39:08  <OwenS> I also wish NAT routers would support SCTP since it's a lovely protocol...
15:39:30  * Aankhen`` looks up SCTP.
15:41:14  <Aankhen``> Sounds interesting, but mostly went over my head due to a lack of familiarity with the subject matter.  Ah well.
15:41:25  <OwenS> SCTP is basically an unreliable or reliable, ordered or unordered datagram protocol with support for multiple streams inside a connection
15:41:41  <SpComb> hmm, unreliable?
15:41:43  <Aankhen``> Streams?
15:41:50  * Aankhen`` waves at SpComb.
15:41:58  <Aankhen``> OwenS: Streams as in unrelated flows of data?
15:42:02  <OwenS> Multiple streams means it can contain multiple "virtual sockets"
15:42:18  <Aankhen``> Okay.
15:42:48  <SpComb> oh look, Aankhen
15:42:53  <Aankhen``> Where?!
15:42:56  <OwenS> It pretty much checks every box you could want checking
15:42:56  <Aankhen``> KILL IT WITH FIRE
15:43:00  <SpComb> didn't even recognize the nick at first glance
15:43:03  <Aankhen``> OwenS: Indeed it does.
15:43:25  <OwenS> Except the "Crosses consumer NATs" box, which is a fault of said consumer NATs...
15:43:38  <Aankhen``> SpComb: Good thing I didn't use one of my newer nicks, eh?
15:44:10  <SpComb> hmm, wikipedia claims SCTP has unreliable transport, but I fail to find that feature in the socket API
15:44:32  <SpComb> SCTP doesn't do multicast, though :(
15:44:36  <OwenS> Oh sorry, it also fails to check the "Supported by Windows" box
15:44:48  <Aankhen``> Aha.
15:44:58  <OwenS> SpComb: Reliable tranmission and multicast are pretty much mutually exclusive...
15:45:26  <SpComb> "Stream: A unidirectional logical channel established from one to
15:45:41  <SpComb> "Stream: A unidirectional logical channel established from one to another associated SCTP endpoint, within which all user messages are delivered in sequence except for those submitted to the unordered delivery service"
15:45:43  <joachim> SmatZ: did you stop working on 3d?
15:45:49  <SpComb> I might be ready to claim that SCTP doesn't offer unreliable transport
15:47:07  <SpComb> but it seems there exists an extension
15:47:48  <OwenS> Unfortunately it seems my man pages don't include SCTP...
15:48:05  <OwenS> Aah yeah IETF Working draft
15:49:05  <Belugas> joachim, yes, indeed.  now, SmatZ only works on a plain paper sheet, in 2d!
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15:53:13  <SpComb> OwenS: it doesn't come with the default set
15:53:39  <SpComb> debian has libsctp1
15:53:56  <OwenS> libsctp is a userspace implementation on top of UDP IIRC
15:54:23  <SpComb> libsctp-dev: /usr/share/man/man7/sctp.7.gz
15:54:34  <SpComb> no, it's the SCTP socket API extension
15:54:47  <SpComb> *extensions
15:55:02  <SpComb> sctp_connectx/sctp_bindx/etc (which are just get/setsockopts on linux)
15:55:03  <OwenS> Shouldn't they be in libc? =S
15:55:10  <SpComb> too marginal, I guess
15:55:21  <SpComb> and the API is pretty badly designed
15:55:29  <OwenS> Wait who am I kidding, this is glibc were talking about
15:55:45  <OwenS> The project headed by a developer who flat out refuses to implement strlcpy/strlcat...
15:55:47  <SpComb> it takes a `struct sockaddr` array...
15:56:11  <SpComb> which is rather nonsensical
15:56:22  <OwenS> What does?
15:56:29  <SpComb> the sctp_bind/connectx functions
15:56:35  <OwenS> SCTP does IP multihoming
15:56:47  <SpComb> well, mainly because `struct sockaddr` doesn't have a defined length
15:57:07  <SpComb> so it loops through it, and picks out sockaddr_in/sockaddr_in6's based on the sa_family field
15:57:30  <SpComb> such that the array can contain a mixture of sockaddr_in/sockaddr_in6's, which are of different lengths...
15:58:02  <SpComb> which is a terrifically horrible C API
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15:59:30  <OwenS> I'll admit freaky but I've seen worse
15:59:32  <TB> I have a vanilla Leopard running ;)
15:59:53  <TB> well, of course there is the software EFI emulation, and a few extensions which disable .. euh .. various of thingies :)
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16:00:12  <TB> now updating to 10.5.8 ....
16:00:14  <OwenS> lol
16:00:54  <TB> fun thing: it runs on a external USB HD ... and it is quick!
16:01:02  <Xaroth> TB!
16:01:05  <Xaroth> read yer other window
16:01:17  <TB> Xaroth: I can't access my normal IRC atm
16:01:21  <Xaroth> i'll summarize
16:01:22  <Xaroth> I GOTS IT
16:01:22  <Belugas> yer?
16:01:23  <TB> NoMachine refuses to run on OSX for now :(
16:01:24  <Belugas> year?
16:01:30  <TB> Xaroth: COOL! :)
16:01:50  <Xaroth> read other window soon.
16:01:53  <Xaroth> off to home
16:01:56  <TB> will do
16:01:57  <TB> enjoy :)
16:01:58  <SpComb> OwenS: yeah, one must admit that it's an API whereby it's at least /possible/ to implement/call it correctly (if you limit it to only certain address families)
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16:21:46  <Terkhen> Start a new game. Ctrl+Click skips map configuration <--- and I thought I knew most of the features toggled by Ctrl
16:23:38  <Ammler> could someone help me, what those nfo warning means: http://pastebin.ca/1545968
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16:28:28  <OwenS> SpComb: I'd say it's possible to call right either way, just somewhat bass ackward
16:30:38  <Terkhen> where should I report typos at original (english) strings?
16:32:57  <Belugas> typos?
16:33:00  <Belugas> mmh...
16:33:04  <Belugas> lots?
16:33:15  <Terkhen> only one
16:33:22  <Belugas> like?
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16:33:34  <Terkhen> {BLACK}Centre main view on hangar location. Ctrl+Click opens a new viewport on hanger location
16:34:54  <Belugas> Centre -> Center / hanger -> hangar?
16:35:03  <Belugas> that's two, right?
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16:35:14  <Terkhen> mmm... I only noticed hangar -> hanger
16:35:38  <Terkhen> I thought centre was correct
16:35:56  * Belugas wonders if we have an original english translator...
16:36:08  <Belugas> well.. it FEELS wrong to me, but... not a native
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16:38:30  <Coco-Banana-Man> afaik centre is BE and center AE?
16:38:40  <Coco-Banana-Man> (British English/American English)
16:39:01  <Belugas> see? not a native ^_^
16:39:20  <Coco-Banana-Man> same here ^^
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16:40:00  <Coco-Banana-Man> But that's what I've been told at school...
16:40:33  <Terkhen> the same as color / colour? It was hard for me to stop using both randomly :P
16:40:39  <Coco-Banana-Man> yes
16:40:56  <Terkhen> I see
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16:47:33  <TrueBrain> whoho, nomachine works :)
16:47:37  <TrueBrain> OSX 10.5.8 runs too
16:47:47  <Rubidium> Centre is correct for Brittish English
16:47:58  <Belugas> roger that
16:49:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17301 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix (r17297): typo
16:49:20  <Belugas> damned!
16:49:28  <Belugas> i was about to press Enter!
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16:50:37  <Rubidium> sorry :)
16:50:49  <Belugas> how could you have known ;)
16:51:14  <Rubidium> telepathy?
16:54:33  <Belugas> if only it was invented...
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17:04:21  <Mesolicious> Is there any documentation on this "Autoroad" thingie?
17:04:42  *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd
17:04:56  <Mesolicious> Hi Lakie.
17:05:01  *** Mesolicious is now known as Aankhen``
17:05:08  <Lakie> Hi Aankhen``.
17:05:15  <Aankhen``> How's it going?  Long time. :-)
17:05:37  <Lakie> Fairly slow, waiting for peeps to get back to me about what I can and cannot do. :/
17:05:55  <Aankhen``> In what regard?
17:06:19  <Rubidium> documentation about "autoroad"? It's like autorail
17:06:26  <Lakie> Uni
17:06:54  <Aankhen``> Rubidium: Ah, thanks.  First time I'm trying OpenTTD, pretty much.
17:07:09  <Aankhen``> Lakie: Oh.  That sucks.
17:07:24  <Lakie> Yup
17:08:03  <Rubidium> so it's the normal road thingy, but you can drag it in all directions instead only in X or Y direction
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17:10:22  <Aankhen``> Rubidium: Merci.
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17:17:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17302 /branches/0.7/src/ (8 files in 5 dirs):
17:17:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
17:17:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Reloading an AI started a new AI in the first available company slot causing other AIs to be started [FS#3153] (r17298)
17:17:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Crash after upgrading base graphics set when opening the game options menu and you were using the upgraded set [FS#3147] (r17291)
17:17:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [Squirrel] Stack was not always cleared properly with tail recursion (r17284)
17:17:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [Squirrel] Calling a function that has default parameters with not enough parameters can cause a crash (r17273)
17:17:24  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Change: Mention the MD5 checksum of the original NewGRF in the "saveload failed horribly"-error message and make it more clear that the filename is of the current NewGRF [FS#3139] (r17267)
17:22:08  <Rubidium> Terkhenm, those other strings weren't part of what I changed today ;) Nevertheless... translation reviews are good
17:24:54  <Terkhen> okay, thanks :)
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17:26:33  <petern> heh
17:26:41  <petern> and now everyone will wonder what terkhen wrote
17:26:53  <petern> p.s. your signature is a bit big
17:29:04  <Terkhen> I was mistaken from reading that "version" somewhere, I did not want to spread incorrect information so I just removed it quickly
17:29:44  <Terkhen> okay, I was thinking on changing its format anyways
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17:38:35  <TrueBrain> bah, I can't get the video driver to work as I would like :(
17:42:30  *** MizardX is now known as MizardX-
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17:46:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17303 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt german.txt spanish.txt):
17:46:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 30 changes by glx
17:46:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 38 changes by Roujin
17:46:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: spanish - 103 changes by Terkhen
17:47:09  <TrueBrain> thank you WT3.0
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18:34:48  <fjb> Hello
18:35:34  <Alberth> hello
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18:35:55  <TrueBrain> hello
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18:44:14  <planetmaker> hello
18:44:34  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: VirtualBox doesn't recognize my MacCDs.
18:44:45  <TrueBrain> so that wasn't just me :s
18:45:27  <TrueBrain> how does 10.6 work planetmaker? :p
18:45:41  <planetmaker> not yet :-) The HDD which I liked for it wasn't available.
18:46:21  <planetmaker> so I'll have to be patient till Monday or so.
18:46:55  <TrueBrain> but okay, you can download a boot-123 iso, which helps you booting it
18:47:31  <planetmaker> I guess that's what you did?
18:47:36  <TrueBrain> yup
18:47:53  <TrueBrain> any bootloader will do btw, if you can select where it boots from
18:47:57  <planetmaker> My guess is, if  I do that, too, it won't differ from what you produce...
18:48:16  <TrueBrain> well, the install can't succeed here
18:48:22  <TrueBrain> beause of a few hardware related issues :p
18:48:27  <planetmaker> ah
18:48:37  <TrueBrain> but it is claimed that virtualbox does work ;)
18:48:39  <planetmaker> well, it depends upon what virtualbox emulates
18:49:16  <planetmaker> got a link for the boot-123 iso? Hm... I guess it fails then that I don't have CDs which can be written upon ;-)
18:49:27  <planetmaker> though... images can be read.
18:49:29  <TrueBrain> load it into virtualbox :p
18:49:31  <TrueBrain> no need to burn
18:49:40  <planetmaker> how big is the ISO?
18:49:46  <TrueBrain> a few meg
18:49:55  <planetmaker> that's fine then
18:49:58  <TrueBrain> http://rawr.xaroth.nl/wiki/index.php/File_List
18:50:00  <TrueBrain> doh
18:50:10  <TrueBrain> http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/orig_boot-132.iso
18:51:04  <Xaroth> yeh, they can't get on rawr :P
18:51:25  <TrueBrain> sorry about that Xaroth ;)
18:51:36  <TrueBrain> my copy/paste buffer does not always work
18:51:41  * Xaroth shrugs
18:51:54  <Xaroth> not like it's got sekrits on it
18:52:00  <TrueBrain> still ;)
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19:04:33  <planetmaker> hm... and how does that help me, TrueBrain ?
19:04:53  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: boot from that, switch CDs (virtual of course), enter enter
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19:05:01  <TrueBrain> then it should boot
19:05:17  <planetmaker> hm.... ok, another try for that procedure
19:08:07  <planetmaker> same procedure doesn't work now either. I guess I tried in all different combinations that before
19:08:28  <TrueBrain> :'(
19:08:32  <TrueBrain> stupid virtualbox!
19:09:19  <glx> still no luck for me
19:10:48  <planetmaker> hm...
19:11:01  <planetmaker> what kinda OS did you tell VirtualBox to install?
19:11:17  <planetmaker> and what's the password to my first registration at sun?
19:15:06  <Aankhen``> secure123?
19:15:12  <Belugas> and why is that cloud stealing the eggs of my cocoon?
19:15:13  *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@2a01:270:dd00:7701:1337:1337:1337:1337] has joined #openttd
19:15:18  <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho :)
19:15:45  <z-MaTRiX> bb
19:16:11  <Belugas> Be back?
19:16:20  <planetmaker> http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/pm/bild2.png <-- The only result I get (next to No boot medium when not using the iso)
19:16:22  <Belugas> Bursting Bubbles?
19:16:32  <Belugas> Bitching babyes?
19:16:53  *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE94ad.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd
19:17:21  <Belugas> Beheading brachyosaurus?
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19:27:03  <Eddi|zuHause> the poor things...
19:27:09  <Eddi|zuHause> no wonder they got extinct
19:27:38  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: that is kind of wrong ... oh well ....
19:27:41  <TrueBrain> tnx for trying anyway :)
19:28:58  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: wrong in what way?
19:29:22  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: it should give you another boot thingy
19:29:27  <Belugas> left instead of right
19:29:33  <Belugas> up instead of down
19:29:35  <planetmaker> ah, hm. right
19:29:41  <Belugas> no...left
19:29:44  <TrueBrain> what looks like when you hit F8 at boottime
19:29:46  <planetmaker> that it never does :-(
19:29:48  <TrueBrain> (in OSX :p)
19:30:18  <Eddi|zuHause> up is down.
19:30:19  <planetmaker> that looks way different...
19:30:26  <planetmaker> 1 = -1
19:30:59  <TrueBrain> I can proof that!
19:31:36  <Eddi|zuHause> in a way that i did not see it a hundred times already?
19:31:45  <planetmaker> ;-)
19:31:47  <TrueBrain> last time I did it via gcc!
19:32:14  <TrueBrain> well, that 1 == 2, but there is no limitatio to either number
19:33:51  *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
19:34:06  <PeterT> yexo?
19:34:15  <Yexo> hello PeterT
19:34:28  <PeterT> could you give me the link for YChat again? i am on a different computer
19:35:04  <Yexo> http://www.silverex.org/download/
19:35:31  <PeterT> thanks yexo :)
19:35:40  <Yexo> np ;)
19:35:50  <PeterT> TrueBrain: I just got my book on C++
19:36:08  <Yexo> PeterT: it's the first result if you google for "xchat windows"
19:36:50  <PeterT> i thought this was ychat...
19:38:14  <Yexo> it's the same program :p
19:38:48  <PeterT> ok, be right back
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19:38:55  <Yexo> official name is XChat, but the official windows binaries are non-free. As the code is gpl some other people compile it and offer free binaries, but the code automatically renames those versions to YChat
19:39:49  <Alberth> that explanation is way better than I thought :)
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19:42:04  <TrueBrain> you got to love 'GPL' projects :)
19:42:49  <TrueBrain> lets do it for OpenTTD! And name the 'free' version FreeTTD! :p
19:43:28  <Rubidium> no, rename OpenTTD to OTTD and name the 'free' version PTTD
19:44:24  <Yexo> quote from INSTALL.w32: "Note: This source code is meant for Linux/Unix like systems. Compiling this for Windows will produce a below-par quality product. The official XChat for Windows is not built with this unix source code."
19:45:20  <Rubidium> does sound like a violation of GPL
19:45:48  <Yexo> not necesarliy, they can double-license all their code
19:47:27  <Rubidium> true, though then you'd likely find traces of that in the readme/COPYING of XChat
19:48:03  <Yexo> COPYING is the gpl v2 licence
19:48:26  <Rubidium> does anything tell it's licensed differently?
19:48:34  <Yexo> nope
19:48:51  <Yexo> the windows installer doesn't ask anything about a license at all
19:49:00  <Yexo> and the 'windows srouces' are nowhere to be found
19:49:38  <Rubidium> then *if* you got a XChat in a legal manner you ought to get the sources of the binary, including the makefile/build scripts used to compile it
19:49:54  <Rubidium> when you ask for it
19:50:06  <Rubidium> and not the YChat sources
19:50:13  <Yexo> Rubidium: I can get the makefile / build scripts of YChat, but not of XChat
19:50:26  <Yexo> and they don't have to give them to me as long as no gpl-only code is included
19:50:48  <Yexo> as soon as I submit a patch under gpl, they can use it in their unix version but not in their windows version without making it gpl
19:51:00  <Yexo> s/I/someone/, but I can't check that
19:52:05  <Rubidium> but you just said that XChat is released with only a notice that it is GPLv2
19:52:14  <Rubidium> so it IS GPLv2
19:53:59  <Yexo> Rubidium: that's the source that has that notice
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19:58:40  <Rubidium> it's automatically buildable for Windows? That sounds like really crappy code, not sure whether I would spend any money for that
19:59:10  <Yexo> apparantly it needs some tricks to build on windows
20:00:53  <planetmaker> he... long time no seen: assertion upon load in clean trunk...
20:02:15  <planetmaker> hm... nvm, I guess. Probably a FIRS incompatibility issue
20:02:22  *** LordAzamath [~rightwing@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd
20:02:42  <planetmaker> though funnily OpenTTD tells me that the save has no newgrfs where I know it has three :-)
20:02:44  * TrueBrain hugs LadyHawk
20:02:53  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: hehe, sounds .. wrong? :)
20:03:06  <Rubidium> planetmaker: care to share the savegame?
20:03:09  <planetmaker> yup. As is the reported OS-version
20:03:14  <planetmaker> Rubidium: yes, I care.
20:03:41  <planetmaker> I just try to find out what grfs in detail were loaded. As a compatible FIRS was loaded.
20:03:51  <Rubidium> huh? reported OS version?
20:03:56  <Rubidium> what's wrong with that?
20:04:32  <planetmaker> I have 10.4.11 not 10.4.9
20:04:59  * Rubidium wonders what part of OTTD actually does that
20:05:04  <Rubidium> probably the unsupported part
20:05:09  <planetmaker> I have a screeny :-)
20:06:00  <Rubidium> oh... Bjarni code!
20:06:50  <Rubidium> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/os/macosx/macos.mm#L39 <- you're getting that
20:07:18  <Rubidium> presists?
20:07:31  <TrueBrain> lol, no 64bit support? :p
20:07:43  *** Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has quit []
20:08:02  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: do you have an idea what the right subtypes are?
20:08:03  <TrueBrain> no wonder he says no newgrfs .... :p
20:08:29  <TrueBrain> a good /* tend to do that :)
20:09:14  <Rubidium> planetmaker: 10.4.9 for 10.4.11 is a documented OSX feature!
20:09:14  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: filtering on subtype only is bad
20:09:23  <TrueBrain> CPU_TYPE_X86_64, CPU_TYPE_I386, ...
20:09:26  <glx> oh I should crash openttd to see what it detects in my vmware
20:10:13  <planetmaker> Hm... I'm fairly sure it's another occurance of "I didn't find the right grf, and used one with the same ID at random..."
20:10:31  <Rubidium> anyhow, the crash is *after* loading the savegame
20:10:41  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: it just underlines the euh, what is the english ... 'badness' of the OSX port? :)
20:10:55  <planetmaker> ... which is not compatible. But yes, after the loading.
20:11:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it's wise to keep multiple "development" versions of a grf around... it's really asking for trouble :p
20:12:19  <TrueBrain> http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/macho/0.2/doc/html/Data-Macho.html#t%3ACPU_SUBTYPE <- now that is a list ....
20:12:27  <TrueBrain> and who says OSX doesn't support many CPUs? :p
20:12:43  <Rubidium> If the values of the minor or bug fix revision are larger than 9, then gestaltSystemVersion will substitute the value 9 for them. For example, Mac OS X 10.3.15 will be returned as 0x1039, and Mac OS X 10.10.5 will return 0x1095.
20:13:28  <TrueBrain> sounds like a useful feature :p
20:14:54  <Rubidium> pff... what an awful mess is macos.mm
20:15:44  <Alberth> one dev was frustrated with the number of calls about the computer not being able to count :p
20:16:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you should not have opened that file :p
20:16:57  <Alberth> Rubidium goes boldly where others dare not go :p
20:17:47  <Eddi|zuHause> where no sane human has gone before :p
20:20:25  <Rubidium> so... and it's not a new bug!
20:20:49  <Rubidium> just shoved the whole mess cleanup into the OSX port outdated bug :)
20:20:55  <planetmaker> nope, it's not a new bug ;-)
20:21:08  *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B2E05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:22:14  <TrueBrain> cool, I can boot OSX from my External HD in VirtualBox :p
20:22:38  <Rubidium> wut... booting OSX in vbox?
20:22:39  <planetmaker> uploading to Flyspray. But it will take its time with all newgrf attached :-)
20:22:40  *** R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has joined #openttd
20:22:43  <planetmaker> oh done.
20:22:49  <planetmaker> FS3155
20:23:01  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: well, the starting-phase worked, yes
20:23:11  <TrueBrain> which means absolutely nothing :p
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20:23:26  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
20:24:30  <Rubidium> planetmaker: that savegame crashes after a few days, right?
20:24:44  <planetmaker> I guess it might have been one or two day.
20:25:07  <planetmaker> crashing with the attached firs.grf should probably be ok. It's a very, very, very early grf of first
20:25:09  <planetmaker> *firs
20:25:29  <Rubidium> can you get a backtrace?
20:25:44  <Rubidium> (just to compare it with the one I have)
20:25:56  <planetmaker> I guess. Will need me to attache gdb to it, right?
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20:26:24  <Rubidium> yup
20:26:41  <Rubidium> though what's pretending to be a lumbermill?
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20:27:49  <planetmaker> http://paste.openttd.org/211416
20:27:59  <planetmaker> I've no idea what is pretending to be that. Maybe a wood
20:28:16  <Rubidium> hmm, can you enable debugging? Seems the same though
20:29:01  <planetmaker> -d 9 ?
20:29:09  <planetmaker> or how much?
20:29:10  <Rubidium> no, compile with debugging stuff
20:29:20  <Rubidium> as in ./configure --enable-debug=3
20:29:27  <planetmaker> oh, he
20:30:07  <TrueBrain> nope, it refuses to boot in VirtualBox, for reasons I fail to understand :)
20:30:10  <TrueBrain> (it hangs in ACPI :p)
20:31:21  <TrueBrain> and the lack of VT-X doesn't make this any easier :p
20:31:31  <planetmaker> VT-X?
20:31:39  <TrueBrain> AMD-V and VT-X
20:31:52  <glx> hardware virtualisation in cpu
20:31:55  <TrueBrain> CPU extensions to make virtualization easier :)
20:31:59  <planetmaker> ah, thx
20:32:00  <glx> or something like that :)
20:32:06  <TrueBrain> and I have the only in the T5 serie which does NOT have it :(
20:32:15  <TrueBrain> (for no real reason ... as I am sure it is in the CPU, just not enabled)
20:33:25  <planetmaker> and all this trouble only as I wanted to see how the firs' sandpit looks with snow...
20:33:26  <glx> I have a X2 3800+ and no AMD-V (of course I have a socket 939 not an AM2)
20:33:41  <planetmaker> or rather semi-transparent ground tiles
20:33:52  <TrueBrain> glx: I thought all X2s had AMD-V? Mine 3000+ and 3200+ both do ...
20:34:01  <glx> only AM2 socket
20:34:05  <TrueBrain> ah ...
20:34:06  <TrueBrain> sucks
20:35:14  <glx> doens't really matter with vmware anyway (I can run 64bit VM on 32bit host)
20:35:37  <glx> but it's a no-go for virtual box
20:36:27  <planetmaker> Rubidium: http://pastebin.ca/1546257
20:36:30  <Rubidium> planetmaker: the industries around tile 44173 are completely different with firs.grf that the others
20:36:35  <planetmaker> doesn't look much different to me
20:36:48  <planetmaker> (the bt)
20:37:40  <Rubidium> by the way r213M doesn't crash
20:37:52  <planetmaker> I would also wonder, if :-)
20:38:03  <planetmaker> Pixel colour is something OpenTTD shouldn't care about
20:38:27  <Rubidium> though firs.grf does crash
20:38:32  <planetmaker> (at least in that way)
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20:38:43  <planetmaker> well, as said: it's ok, if it doesn't work
20:38:47  <Rubidium> however, firs.grf is 100 KiB smaller than the tars
20:38:49  <planetmaker> it's not meant to be compatible
20:39:25  <planetmaker> (though they claim)
20:39:32  <Rubidium> huh? there what's the issue with that bug?
20:40:29  <Rubidium> both tars work fine
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20:40:39  <planetmaker> [22:00]	<planetmaker>	he... long time no seen: assertion upon load in clean trunk...
20:40:41  <planetmaker> [22:01]	<planetmaker>	hm... nvm, I guess. Probably a FIRS incompatibility issue
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20:40:44  <TrueBrain> and now I am back to invalid uuid to boot from my disk ... bah
20:40:45  <planetmaker> :-)
20:40:54  <Rubidium> the firs.grf which looks ancient to me does crash
20:41:13  <planetmaker> yes. It doesn't have all industries, I guess
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20:42:32  <TrueBrain> I guess I just ened to install the voodoo kernel and try that ..
20:43:01  <TrueBrain> but now first a good nap, tomorrow BAZ! (boulderen aan zee, beach-bouldering) .. hmm ... now lets hope it doesn't rain as it did today :)
20:43:03  <TrueBrain> night all!!
20:43:10  <PeterT> good night,
20:43:14  <Rubidium> night TB
20:43:21  <PeterT> i will be having fun with my new c book
20:43:27  <PeterT> and devcplusplus
20:43:29  <Yexo> night TrueBrain
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20:46:51  <planetmaker> night, TrueBrain
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20:49:50  <planetmaker> hm... I guess industries always have to define a ground tile. Transparency just is not on there.
20:55:31  <asilv> using transparent groung sprites has intresting effects :p
20:55:33  *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@146.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:57:05  <planetmaker> just noticed that, yes
21:01:14  * Eddi|zuHause expects something between a black tile and just keeping what was drawn there previously
21:02:06  <Yexo> just keeping what was drawn there previously <- you guessed correct :)
21:03:25  *** lewymati [~lewymati@aeje129.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd
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21:04:51  <asilv> it also shows some random stuff from nearby tiles
21:05:10  <Eddi|zuHause> well. others had similar problems, like the more heightlevels thingie
21:12:39  *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm210.psi148.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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21:30:35  * Belugas wishes good vacations to petern, as well as some good jam occasions ;)
21:30:46  <Belugas> as for me, i'm wishing myself a good return home...
21:31:01  <Rubidium> night Belugas
21:31:10  <Belugas> you too Master Rubidium
21:31:14  * Belugas is gone
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22:45:02  <AC6000> ok, my friend is having issues with the OSX version of openttd with the grfs, any help?
22:45:13  *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
22:45:22  <planetmaker> dthat depends
22:45:40  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
22:45:45  <Ammler> planetmaker: please, help :-)
22:45:47  <planetmaker> why doesn#t your friend com here
22:45:49  <AC6000> hey Nite_Owl
22:45:56  * OwenS hugs connection for 1Mbyte/s speeds
22:46:11  <Ammler> sali Nite_Owl
22:46:20  <planetmaker> moin Nite_Owl
22:46:27  <AC6000> he doesn't use MIRC...
22:46:29  <Yexo> hello Nite_Owl
22:46:43  <Yexo> AC6000: as long as you don't tell us what the problem is we can't help
22:46:56  <planetmaker> AC6000: me neither. But I use a Mac, too
22:47:12  <Nite_Owl> Hello AC6000 & Ammler & planetmaker & Yexo
22:47:14  <AC6000> ok, first off, is there a data folder for the OSX version?
22:47:19  <planetmaker> yes
22:47:23  <Rubidium> yes, as per readme.txt
22:47:33  <AC6000> well, it didn't appear for him...
22:47:44  <AC6000> oh, one mo...
22:47:51  <planetmaker> it does, once you start the game
22:47:52  <Rubidium> what has "he doesn't use MIRC" to do with unable to come to IRC?
22:48:08  <Rubidium> it's like "he doesn't use Opera" means he can't browse the internet
22:48:27  <AC6000> he just doesn't do IRC
22:48:35  <Rubidium> there're enough web based IRC clients (IRC clients that work in your web browser)
22:48:54  <TinoDidriksen> There's even ChatZilla which runs a real IRC client in the browser...
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22:49:08  <OwenS> TinoDidriksen: ChatZilla requires Mozilla :p
22:49:25  <TinoDidriksen> ...hence in the browser. But there is a stand-alone version of it.
22:50:00  <planetmaker> TinoDidriksen: guess what use right now...
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22:51:29  <planetmaker> btw... look in ~/Documents/OpenTTD/data AC6000
22:51:42  <planetmaker> and chapter 4 of the do-not-readme
22:53:18  <MyCatVerbs> TinoDidriksen: stand-alone Chatzilla is just XULrunning with Chatzilla baked in, no?
22:53:25  <TinoDidriksen> Yup
22:53:34  <TinoDidriksen> But still doesn't crash if Firefox does...
22:53:38  <MyCatVerbs> Er, XULrunner.
22:53:48  * MyCatVerbs glares at firefox.
22:53:54  * OwenS hugs Opera
22:54:00  <MyCatVerbs> TinoDidriksen: yeah, I can see why that's attractive. But irssi doesn't crash when firefox does either.
22:54:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i already run an OS, why should i run a browser that pretends to be an OS on top of my OS?
22:54:48  <TinoDidriksen> Eh, I actually use mIRC...it works, and has my scripts.
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22:56:01  <MyCatVerbs> TinoDidriksen: I have nothing in particular against mIRC, but I really do hope for your sake that you keep up to date with the latest version.
22:56:57  <MyCatVerbs> It has a rather alarming number of historical vulnerabilities for a program whose stated purpose is to communicate with a whole pile of people whom you don't necessarily trust.
22:57:09  <AC6000> ah ha!
22:57:25  <AC6000> he dumped the grfs in the wrong place :P
22:57:35  <planetmaker> of course
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22:58:02  <MyCatVerbs> AC6000: Not surprising. Happens to us all at least once. ^_^
22:58:16  <planetmaker> hm... does it?
22:58:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i never did that.
22:58:18  <Rubidium> lies!
22:58:25  <AC6000> lol
22:58:33  <MyCatVerbs> Well not necessarily with OpenTTD.
22:59:21  <AC6000> the data has .tar files, is that the right one?
22:59:29  <MyCatVerbs> But there're enough programs one can install for shits and giggles that one's practically guaranteed to screw something up sooner or later. ^^
23:00:08  <MyCatVerbs> AC6000: tar files are tape archives. You're meant to unpack them. On OS X you should just be able to double click 'em. Or tar xvf foo.tar # in Terminal.app. :)
23:00:09  <planetmaker> AC6000: depends the right for what :-)
23:00:11  <Rubidium> not when your package manager takes care of everything
23:00:22  <planetmaker> MyCatVerbs: you're not meant to unpack them
23:00:24  <Rubidium> MyCatVerbs: uhm... not needed
23:00:38  <Rubidium> OpenTTD reads them perfectly fine
23:00:47  <MyCatVerbs> planetmaker, Rubidium: Oh, OpenTTD unpacks them transparently? Whoops.
23:00:51  <MyCatVerbs> AC6000: Don't listen to me. :D
23:00:58  <AC6000> lol
23:01:09  <AC6000> but all grfs go in there?
23:01:18  <Eddi|zuHause> MyCatVerbs: they are not compressed, openttd can read the files directly out of the tar
23:01:52  <Eddi|zuHause> AC6000: no, you don't have to put the grfs into a tar, but if they are, you can leave them there
23:02:12  <planetmaker> all grf may go there, yes
23:02:34  <AC6000> i ment do they go into the same folder as the .tar files
23:02:43  <Nite_Owl> they can also be in sub folders of the data folder
23:02:45  <Rubidium> yup
23:03:20  <Nite_Owl> if you like to keep them organized by type
23:04:19  <planetmaker> not the worst of ideas :-)
23:06:45  <Nite_Owl> or by heading if you use the grf list dividers
23:07:08  <AC6000> btw, i'll have a game up if anyone wants to join :)
23:09:53  <Yexo> AC6000: from http://www.openttd.org/en/servers: "There are 119 clients, 152 IPv4 servers and 0 IPv6 servers."
23:10:02  <Yexo> there are enough servers and not enough players
23:11:16  <AC6000> lol
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23:14:54  <Rubidium> ooh, a server with a version number one doesn't regularly see: r17302-0.7 :)
23:15:24  <Eddi|zuHause> cool... how does he think he will get clients?
23:15:31  <Nite_Owl> a custom blend
23:15:41  <Rubidium> well, he *has* clients
23:15:47  <OwenS> O_o
23:15:59  <Rubidium> well, more 'client'. Anyhow, 2 people on 1 server
23:16:01  <Eddi|zuHause> someone wanted some kind of privacy, probably ;)
23:16:05  <OwenS> People compiled the head of the 0.7 branch to connect to it? O_o
23:16:22  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Passwords are better for privacy :p
23:16:44  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the backports were important to him
23:16:56  <AC6000> ok, i don't know if my server turned up. any volunteers? :P
23:17:51  <AC6000> look for AC6000's game :P
23:18:01  <Rubidium> ghehe... if I wanted a private version that'd be easy; first of all I'd change the join protocol slightly. Knocks of everyone who hasn't got the binary
23:18:17  <Rubidium> AC6000: it's not there
23:18:32  <AC6000> on ottd itself?
23:19:02  <Yexo> AC6000: if it's not listed here http://www.openttd.org/en/servers it's not visible for other openttd clients
23:19:05  <Rubidium> no, though it isn't in the server list
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23:19:23  <AC6000> :S
23:19:33  <AC6000> well, i opened the ports....
23:19:42  <planetmaker> on the router?
23:19:52  <AC6000> and my friend confirmed it worked
23:19:53  <AC6000> yes
23:20:01  <Rubidium> well, then you're not advertising
23:20:09  <AC6000> yes i am
23:20:12  <Rubidium> and he entered the IP/DNS manually
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23:20:58  <planetmaker> gotta sleep. Have a good night everyone.
23:21:10  <AC6000> ummm...
23:21:20  <Rubidium> AC6000: last online was 2009-08-27 23:19:03
23:21:23  <Nite_Owl> later planetmaker
23:21:39  <Rubidium> which is kinda not today
23:21:48  <AC6000> O_o
23:22:07  <AC6000> it detected it when i used hamachi!?
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23:22:30  <Rubidium> I don't know what you did
23:22:50  <welshdragon> /memory block: how do i delete AI companies?
23:22:56  <Rubidium> but a server with AC6000 in the name did advertise itself back then
23:22:58  <Yexo> stop_ai <company_id> in console
23:23:27  <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> AC6000: last online was 2009-08-27 23:19:03 <-- if that is UTC, it looks like almost exactly 24h ago
23:24:01  <welshdragon> thanks Yexo
23:24:06  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it is
23:24:50  <Yexo> I should figure out how to learn nforenum some new featuers
23:24:57  <Yexo> counting bytes manually isn't fun
23:25:42  <Rubidium> where would you need to count bytes?
23:25:46  <Rubidium> isn't -1 enough?
23:25:52  <Rubidium> (or 0)
23:25:56  <AC6000> ok, the ports are correct, but i don't know where to find the IP/DNS
23:26:06  <Eddi|zuHause> can't you use "wc" to count bytes?
23:26:09  <Yexo> -1 only works if you feed it through nforenum first
23:26:18  <Yexo> and nforenum crashes on my nfo
23:26:36  <Rubidium> ouch...
23:26:38  <Eddi|zuHause> you should bitchslap DaleStan for that ;)
23:26:45  <Rubidium> Yexo: using x86_64?
23:26:50  <Yexo> Rubidium: no
23:27:23  <Yexo> but using action features 10/0D which aren't defined yet in the newgrf standard
23:27:46  <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me that i wanted to write a compiler... but i have no sense of persistence to finish such a project...
23:28:01  <Rubidium> oh, that project :)
23:28:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: but why does it crash, and not simply reject it as invalid?
23:29:02  <AC6000> btw, how do you find past servers?
23:29:10  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: I have no idea
23:29:16  <Eddi|zuHause> AC6000: link earlier
23:30:12  <Yexo> DaleStan: nforenum crashes when I use feature 10 in action 0/2/3, is that expected (feature 10 is undocumented) or should it reject and not crash instead?
23:30:30  <planetmaker> hm... a crash should still be reported...
23:30:36  <planetmaker> crash is always wrong
23:30:42  <Eddi|zuHause> no program should ever crash on invalid data
23:31:07  <Rubidium> AC6000: with my searching skills
23:31:12  <AC6000> <_<
23:31:17  <Rubidium> resulting in e.g. http://www.openttd.org/en/server/13779
23:31:19  <Ammler> openttd crashes when you set vehicle weight to 0 ;-)
23:31:35  <planetmaker> really?
23:31:41  <Yexo> there are more ways to crash openttd with invalid newgrfs
23:31:49  <Ammler> just saw that when I made the logic train: http://pastebin.ca/1545968
23:32:14  <Ammler> properity 16 0 -> crash
23:32:45  <Rubidium> well... there's a shitload of NewGRF stuff that can cause crashes
23:32:53  <Rubidium> or fracked up savegames
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23:33:00  <Ammler> someone able to tell me, why the nfo has those warnings?
23:33:12  *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B764FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
23:33:50  <Rubidium> Ammler: speed isn't a dword?
23:34:04  <Ammler> ups, just word
23:34:09  <planetmaker> and date a dword
23:34:16  <Ammler> that is
23:34:35  <planetmaker> but you really should use for introduction date the descriptive \w1920-00-00
23:34:43  <Rubidium> uhm, dates are a word too, unless they're long dates
23:35:25  <planetmaker> eh, yes. \w :-)
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23:36:11  <Eddi|zuHause> what's feature 10 anyway? airports?
23:36:58  <planetmaker> ^
23:37:29  <Ammler> planetmaker: it is long date format :-)
23:37:40  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: nah, rather airport tiles
23:37:50  <Ammler> so \d1 should be fine
23:39:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i once was wondering about how every tile (like roads, rails, etc.) could have state machines for vehicles
23:39:18  <Eddi|zuHause> so you could have, like "drive through buildings" and stuff
23:39:36  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: airport tiles
23:40:13  <Eddi|zuHause> and a road vehicle going from one tile to another will just hook into that tile's state machine
23:40:27  <Ammler> hmm, does it need a new GRFID to change the Name?
23:40:53  <Ammler> (on bananas)
23:40:55  <AC6000> well, i'll be in ottd, if anyone wants to join, pm me :P
23:41:25  <planetmaker> I guess we all could have our own server :-)
23:41:50  <planetmaker> Ammler: how can a grf not have a grfid?
23:42:22  <Ammler> dunno, afaik, Action8 is required
23:42:31  <Yexo> Ammler: open a feature request for changing the name on bananas
23:42:47  <Ammler> Yexo: so no reason?
23:43:01  <Yexo> Ammler: I have no idea why it isn't possible
23:43:14  <Yexo> TrueBrain or Rubidium may have an answer
23:43:52  <Ammler> hmm, maybe because of the tarname
23:44:28  <planetmaker> Yexo: will the newgrf be part of the airports branch?
23:44:41  <Yexo> planetmaker: not for now
23:44:51  <planetmaker> if not, could you e-mail / forum mail it to me, please?
23:44:55  <AC6000> oh, is there any interference between Operateing systems on ottd?
23:45:19  <planetmaker> there's not, AC6000
23:45:21  <Yexo> planetmaker: no problem, but it doesn't work yet
23:45:28  <planetmaker> he...
23:45:40  <Yexo> that is, you can build airports (rotated and all), but there is no code yet for a state machine
23:45:51  <planetmaker> ah, ok
23:46:04  <planetmaker> so... planes won't know what to do and probably cannot land
23:46:20  <Yexo> worse: openttd will crash if you try
23:46:27  <planetmaker> :-D
23:46:55  <Yexo> if you just want to have an idea of the code, here is the nfo: http://pastebin.org/13019
23:46:56  <planetmaker> "And our next destination is ... armageddon ;-)"
23:47:17  <Ammler> isn't it somehow possible to just use the other code and switch x<->y
23:47:37  <Yexo> Ammler: I have that working, but not connected to the newgrf code
23:47:53  <Yexo> so you can have rotated newgrf airports, but the normal airports aren't rotated
23:48:39  <Yexo> what I currenctly need is some override original airport code
23:49:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i'll just let my suggestion fly in the air... maybe the state machines for airports can be designed with that in mind, that possibly all tiles could have state machines (e.g. to let vehucles take non-straight paths through tiles, like one way roads getting different overtaking algorithm, or separating trams from busses and lorries)
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23:51:29  <Ammler> Yexo: NoAirport :-)
23:51:50  <Ammler> NoAir
23:52:12  <Yexo> NoAIr, I like that:)
23:52:18  <Yexo> how to confuse new players even more
23:52:27  <Ammler> yes, exactly :-D
23:53:31  <Eddi|zuHause> people are already confused by talking about YAPP signals
23:55:02  <Ammler> do planes have sprites to land and takeoff from north-south?
23:55:23  <Ammler> or here northwest-southeast
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23:56:04  <Eddi|zuHause> why wouldn't they?
23:56:16  <Ammler> because there is no need now, is there?
23:56:50  <Eddi|zuHause> and isn't this only a newgrf issue?
23:56:53  <Ammler> I don't use airports mostly, so I might not know it.
23:57:26  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: yes, the question is, does it need new sprites to support that, or is that already there.

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