Log for #openttd on 31st August 2009:
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01:19:15  <DaleStan> Rubidium: Can you prod the TTDPatch compile farm, please? It seems to only have generated source archives for r2186, and there are no logs explaining why the binaries aren't present.
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01:19:56  <Fast2> Good night
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01:35:05  <z-MaTRiX> bb
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01:43:45  <Dreamxtreme> epic win
01:44:00  <Dreamxtreme> bought out all 14 AI's
01:44:14  <Dreamxtreme> only took 8 hours
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03:47:32  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
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07:40:44  <Rubidium> DaleStan: explanation would be an upgrade of the compile farm that had an unwanted side effect in the TTDP VM (not loading a module)
07:56:20  <TrueBrain> hmm .. by default linux doesn't seems to read GPT partitions :(
07:59:16  <blathijs> GPT?
07:59:31  <TrueBrain> GUID Partition Table
08:00:57  <blathijs> Ah, that sounds useful and not necessarily obscure :-)
08:02:48  <TrueBrain> as someone told me: EVEN WINDOWS SUPPORTS IT! :p
08:03:36  <blathijs> Linux probably supports it, but apparently your distro doesn't enable it by default?
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08:04:37  <TrueBrain> indeed :)
08:05:50  <Rubidium> like... windows XP/Vista support >4 GB of memory in x86, yet don't enable it by default?
08:06:45  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: we established that yesterday
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08:22:02  <planetmaker> g'morning folks
08:22:06  <TrueBrain> howdie planetmaker
08:24:02  <TrueBrain> um
08:24:05  <TrueBrain> hmm
08:24:11  <TrueBrain> well, there you have to start of my typing umount
08:27:54  <planetmaker> umount /dev/irc ? ;-)
08:31:59  <planetmaker> he... you have upx installed for windows and macos on your CF, but not for linux?
08:32:50  <Rubidium> I fucked up a bit when reverting to an older VM image
08:33:02  <Rubidium> ls
08:34:24  <planetmaker> he...
08:36:22  <Rubidium> grrr
08:37:00  * Rubidium is going insane
08:37:14  <Rubidium> I just fracking installed upx :(
08:37:22  <Rubidium> and it fails again on it
08:37:58  <tdev> btw,
08:38:06  <Rubidium> and when I did a test compile it worked just fine with upx (AFAICS)
08:38:34  <Rubidium> tdev: what's the point in that?
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08:38:53  <tdev> playing around with buildbot
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08:40:21  <Terkhen> good morning
08:41:30  <Rubidium> tdev: then make it *very* clear that it is in no way related to any official openttd business
08:41:44  <tdev> ok, wait
08:41:51  <Rubidium> I don't like getting complaints about it
08:42:02  <Rubidium> (like we get complaints about other people's custom builds)
08:43:24  <tdev> done :)
08:43:33  <tdev> not really ... :|
08:44:32  <tdev> i was setting up some other buildbots, so i set up one for openttd as well :)
08:44:34  <planetmaker> just add to that line "and not officially connected to So don't complain to the devs, if you have problems with anything displayed here, but contact <name, e-mail> instead"
08:45:20  <Rubidium> nevertheless it's failing :)
08:46:12  <tdev> no, its still running
08:46:13  <tdev>
08:46:30  <tdev> cppcheck needs long for your massice amount of source files ...
08:46:51  <Rubidium> cppcheck? why's that needed?
08:47:02  <tdev> its not needed
08:47:17  <tdev> its useful i hope :)
08:48:57  <planetmaker> what does it do?
08:49:25  <tdev> checking for common coding errors
08:49:36  <tdev> but idk if thats something of quality yet.
08:49:45  <tdev> see its output there:
08:50:14  <tdev> for example: [src/group_cmd.cpp:96]: (error) Memory leak: g
08:50:59  <Rubidium> tdev: now, please reproduce that with the actual code
08:51:23  <tdev> what do you mean?
08:51:47  <Rubidium> that it's a false positive
08:52:12  <tdev> could be, as i said, idk if its of value
08:52:12  <Rubidium> as probably most (if not all) 'memory leaks' that it reports are
08:52:28  <tdev> the lighttpd group found a memory leak and fixed it with that
08:53:01  <tdev> if you have ideas for better static code analysis tools, just say ;)
08:53:37  <Rubidium> it's just that we're doing some tricks that make most static code analysis pointless
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08:54:35  <Rubidium> like most (if not all) variable not initialized warnings are due to it not figuring out that 'new' does memset(0)
08:55:05  <tdev> yeah, i removed cppcheck...
08:57:27  <tdev> it builds now, and should happily update upon every commit
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09:08:45  <planetmaker> you'll be slower than the commit frequency at times.
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09:16:03  <tdev> planetmaker, im sure it will handle that ;)
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09:31:49  <Rubidium> and regarding to lighttpd: they aren't really bothered about extreme memory usage
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10:33:36  <remaxim> hi
10:33:58  <remaxim> is openttd already playable without the original game?
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10:36:23  <Eddi|zuHause> yes and no
10:36:35  <planetmaker> yes and yes :-)
10:36:45  <planetmaker> and yes and no ;-)
10:36:58  <planetmaker> (in order of the climates in the main menu)
10:37:30  <planetmaker> e.g. toyland is no fun with OpenGFX right now. If you're into drawing: contributions highly welcome
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10:41:03  <Eddi|zuHause> and no, 0.7 does not yet support sound replacement (you can, however, play without sound with a little workaround)
10:43:22  <Ammler> [12:37] <planetmaker> e.g. toyland is no fun with OpenGFX right now. <-- well, as much fun as with originial is it for sure.
10:43:51  <planetmaker> well... different
10:44:10  <planetmaker> black-box industries are hardly discernible.
10:44:31  <Ammler> original toyland isn't playable at all ;-)
10:44:51  <Ammler> or show me a screenshot thread with toyland...
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10:50:43  <planetmaker> :-)
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11:28:14  <remaxim> oh, I just realized someone answered
11:29:11  <remaxim> I promised to come back when there is some original content (= playable without the original game) and maybe try to create some music
11:29:31  <remaxim> I don't really get if it is that far already
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11:35:24  <Ammler> remaxim: maybe help OpenSFX to finish the first sournd replacement?
11:35:28  <Ammler> -r
11:36:16  <Ammler> I guess, there is no easy support for music replacement, and not sure, if there are serious plans to do so.
11:36:28  <remaxim> Ammler, what is opensfx supposed to be?
11:36:36  <Ammler> the sound replacement
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11:37:10  <Ammler> remaxim:
11:37:13  <remaxim> so there is no code for playing sound?
11:37:36  <Ammler> yes, there is.
11:37:45  <Ammler> (in trunk (nightlies) at least
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11:38:11  <Ammler> I thought, you like to make *music* replacement.
11:38:42  <remaxim> that s what I thought about...
11:39:09  <blathijs> remaxim: There is currently no code to support arbitrary music files, just the ones from the original TTD I think
11:39:32  <remaxim> hm... I get it
11:39:34  <blathijs> but if someone would create a cool music set, someone might work on integrating it, of course :-)
11:40:16  <remaxim> thanks for the info
11:40:28  <remaxim>   ll maybe will have a look at the project in the future again
11:40:37  <Ammler> remaxim: but it would be cool to finish the sounds ;-)
11:40:48  <remaxim> Ammler, lol...
11:41:02  <Ammler> again, sounds != music
11:41:10  <remaxim> don't mistake me for a sound designer, that s something completly different
11:41:32  <Ammler> ok, you see the difference :-)
11:41:45  <remaxim> exactly ... why do you think I would do sounds?
11:42:08  <Ammler> because those are nessecary, music isn't and imo there is also no need.
11:42:21  <Ammler> as you can play music with your usual players.
11:43:19  <remaxim> Ammler, with that attitude you ll scare away many people... I am a musician, I am not interested nor do I have the technical skills to create sounds
11:43:33  <remaxim> that s like saying to a movie maker to draw a picture
11:43:42  <remaxim> just not the same, and very insulting
11:43:46  <Ammler> hehe, don't get me wrong.
11:44:38  <Ammler> what does you stop from making music for ttd now?
11:44:49  <remaxim> especially as in every second OSS project people don't get the difference
11:45:24  <remaxim> Ammler, I don't feel like the project is that far yet... so I don't really have the urge to contribute some music yet
11:45:34  <blathijs> remaxim: From a programmer's perspective, sound and music are both this weird audio thing we don't have any clue about :-p
11:45:41  <Ammler> it plays music since 1995/96
11:46:09  <blathijs> remaxim: That that far in what perspective? Because there is no support for alternative music sets?
11:46:40  <Ammler> my "OpenTTD" has that since start.
11:47:11  <Ammler> it might be very cool to play TTD like music.
11:47:14  <remaxim> blathijs, I am a programmer as well ... I know that, but I feel like it belongs to the necessary soft skills to know the difference and acknowledge it as such one
11:47:33  * Ammler isn't one, btw.
11:48:10  <Ammler> programmers might be the minority in this channel.
11:48:56  <remaxim> no, actually it's more about people saying "yes and no" on the game being playable alone
11:49:52  <Eddi|zuHause> remaxim: the music driver should be able to play midi files, but don't count me on that
11:52:08  <remaxim> Eddi|zuHause, thanks for letting me know.
11:52:23  <remaxim> I have to go then
11:52:26  <remaxim> bye
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12:06:01  <TrueBrain> what was I doing ..
12:06:06  <TrueBrain> ah yes, getting a working DSDT ..
12:11:02  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Anything in particular you're trying to fix?
12:11:08  <TrueBrain> OSX :)
12:11:15  <TrueBrain> but iasl doesn't like the DSDT vbox gives
12:11:25  <blathijs> It doesn't? That's stupid...
12:11:27  <TrueBrain> it contains noops in invalid places ... now I wonder if it would be wrong if I just removed those noops ...
12:11:33  <TrueBrain> stupid doesn't start to describe it ;)
12:11:36  <blathijs> hehe
12:12:20  <TrueBrain> and DSDT is not the most documented thing of a computer :p
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12:15:10  <TrueBrain> I hate it when I installed a new compiler and have to make a small change in my kernel ... a recompile is never funny :(
12:18:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i have never done a kernel compile...
12:18:56  <TrueBrain> 90% of my systems run a custom kernel
12:19:07  <TrueBrain> (including most of the production servers)
12:19:36  <blathijs> same here
12:19:55  <blathijs> Actually, 100% of my linux systems run a custom kernel I think
12:20:07  <TrueBrain> I have a few 'vanilla' debian kernels
12:20:08  <blathijs> Though my FlexVPS kernel isn't compiled by me :-p
12:23:10  <Rubidium> hmm... remaxim already left :( blathijs, technically OpenTTD doesn't care about the music files, so you can easily substitute them with others as long as they are in the same format (some kind of midi)
12:23:29  <blathijs> Rubidium: Don't they need the same filenames then?
12:23:43  <blathijs> (I thought OpenTTD had a hardcoded list of filenames and song titles?)
12:24:22  <Rubidium> that is true
12:25:33  <Ammler> Rubidium: I would wait until he makes some music for openttd, else you implement music replacement and nbody makes them, like 32bpp sprites.
12:25:47  <Rubidium> but moving those filenames and song titles out of OpenTTD into some 'config' files should not be the big deal; without music there's no need to make it 'configurable'
12:26:23  <Rubidium> but without having it configurable you can make the music files; you'll just get the wrong title and you've got some naming 'issues'
12:26:46  <Rubidium> where 'issue' means that you need to name it like the old music files
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12:29:21  <Rubidium> how useful... 2 tickets for the price of 1 for Legoland Deutschland :(
12:29:30  <Rubidium> on a bottle bought in the NL
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12:39:42  <TrueBrain> reboot time! :)
12:41:22  <blathijs> TrueBrain: hf
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12:49:29  <TrueBrain> whoho, the DSDT is accepted
12:49:39  <TrueBrain> now only I need to find back the HD in the correct way ..
12:49:45  <blathijs> :-)
12:49:57  <TrueBrain> it complains about invalid checksum cookie :p
12:50:17  <Rubidium> ooh... misbaksel! :)
12:50:28  <TrueBrain> hehe, I guess
12:50:47  <Rubidium> poor cookie not fit for consumption
12:54:42  <TrueBrain> bah bah bah, this is the part I hate about OSX ...
12:54:51  <Belugas> hello
12:54:57  * TrueBrain hugs Belugas
12:55:07  <Belugas> i'm working for the two next days with a guy from toronto
12:55:09  <Belugas> you hou
12:55:13  <Belugas> on card processing
12:55:16  <Belugas> you houo
12:55:20  <Belugas> hello TrueBrain
12:55:25  <Belugas> weirdo...
12:55:27  <Belugas> or schizo...
12:55:30  <Belugas> whuauaua!!
12:55:33  <TrueBrain> all the above ;)
12:55:40  <Rubidium> youpidou!
12:58:34  <Rubidium> weren't you like in Toronto about 2 weeks ago?
13:01:08  <TrueBrain> bah bah bah ... so close ... and no idea how to solve this :(
13:01:42  <Belugas> i was, Rubidium, but in vacations ;)
13:01:54  <Belugas> so.. not entirely a business trip!
13:02:18  <Belugas> so... it means i would not be able to be too much of a party animal for the few days
13:02:25  * Belugas runs on work
13:02:29  <Belugas> ave a nice day
13:14:10  <TrueBrain> so the milion dollar question: why oh why does it not boot :p
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13:17:44  <Rubidium> oh, like weekend millionaires?
13:18:19  <Rubidium> I still have the 3 "whatever they're called in English, but the things to get help", right?
13:18:40  <TrueBrain> yes
13:19:14  <welshdragon> is there a way to convert all signals on a map?
13:19:46  <TrueBrain> yes: the demolish tool
13:19:51  <TrueBrain> converts them all to plain land
13:20:17  <welshdragon> that's not good
13:20:27  <TrueBrain> then you should be more specific I guess :)
13:20:48  <welshdragon> i was!
13:20:51  <welshdragon> ok then
13:21:14  <welshdragon> how do i convert all semaphore signals to colour signals on a train line?
13:21:21  <Rubidium> oh... where's my 18-inch hammer-of-truth?
13:21:39  * welshdragon runs away from Rubidium
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13:26:47  <TrueBrain> sigh ... brick wall again
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13:30:22  <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> I still have the 3 "whatever they're called in English, but the things to get help", right? <- i think i heard someone call them "life lines"
13:30:30  <Belugas> got your helmet on, TrueBrain?
13:33:16  <Eddi|zuHause> (they're called "Joker" in german, which might be derived from card games)
13:33:26  <TrueBrain> Belugas: yeah ...
13:33:46  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: is it made of tin foil?
13:33:53  <TrueBrain> sadly enough, that too
13:34:11  <TrueBrain> no page tells me what this 'invalid checksum' means and what I can do to fix it ..
13:35:02  <Eddi|zuHause> because no sane osx user ever came across this situation?
13:35:24  <Eddi|zuHause> (not implying that there exists such a person)
13:35:26  <TrueBrain> enough people are trying OSX86 ;)
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13:54:13  <TrueBrain> bah, enough is enough .. stupid OSX :(
13:54:32  <TrueBrain> at least I can run it locally .. but vbox is giving me a hard time on something I don't understand :(
13:56:05  <Belugas> press "any key" ?
13:56:09  <Belugas> ;)
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14:07:56  <Belugas> pffff... that guy is slow... i use to run my certifications at a much higher speed :S
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14:35:23  * Belugas needs music
14:35:30  * Belugas cannot put headphones on
14:35:43  <Belugas> "fun" of working with someone else :S
14:36:48  <Belugas> freaking no-virtual-human-being-interface
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14:50:28  <TrueBrain> k, more then enough OSX for today ....
14:50:55  <glx> you're more patient than me :)
14:54:12  <Belugas> or stuborn ;)
14:56:08  <Belugas> and i know how stuborn glx can be :)
14:56:10  <Sacro> TrueBrain: sounds like you need to sort that too
14:56:18  <Sacro> you booting  -v -f?
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14:59:42  <TrueBrain> Sacro: OH NO! The most obvious first suggestion any forum/website/person makes regarding this, I haven't tried yet! :)
14:59:52  <TrueBrain> lol, sorry, but if you want to start making suggestions, ask for the problem, and help fixing them :)
15:00:05  <TrueBrain> giving random of-the-stock suggestions won't help me, not even a bit :)
15:01:46  <Sacro> TrueBrain: i've just woken up :P
15:01:52  <Sacro> right, what are you getting?
15:02:24  <TrueBrain> ATA Disk: checksum cookie not valid
15:02:39  <TrueBrain> most likely because vbox fucks something up ... and I can't get it traced :(
15:02:50  <TrueBrain> also the 10.6 installer is broken, it doesn't run all packages under root user
15:03:02  <TrueBrain> and 10.4 installer refuses to start, telling me my system is not compatible
15:03:14  <Sacro> I've never done it under Virtualbox, only KVM
15:03:27  <Sacro> KVM and err... the other one
15:03:43  <Sacro> qemu, but i had to patch quemu first
15:04:55  <Sacro> i'm guessing you are trying an official disc, not a patched one
15:05:28  <TrueBrain> it doesn't matter
15:08:14  <glx> virtual or real HD ?
15:09:04  <TrueBrain> real
15:12:51  <TrueBrain> (well, as real as it can get under vbox)
15:13:36  <Sacro> as in mapped to an actual partiton?
15:15:16  <TrueBrain> as in: vbox emulates it anyway
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15:57:44  <Belugas> 45 transactions already
15:57:49  <Belugas> long process...
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16:13:33  <Zuu> Hi
16:14:07  <Zuu> I checked on but couldn't find anything that seamed to match fixing the issues with the last win32 nightly.
16:14:41  <Zuu> Has the issue with last nightly not being compiled/available for win32 been addressed already?
16:17:02  <Belugas> looking at the commits since compile, i'd say no
16:21:10  <Belugas> mmh.. cannot find the compile logs either
16:21:16  <Belugas> of win32 that is
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16:23:07  <TrueBrain> Zuu: only start to worry if a compile failed for more than 2 connected days
16:23:22  <Belugas> mbgrgroaaa mumblinggrrrr
16:23:33  * Belugas silences stomach
16:23:41  <Zuu> TrueBrain: Okay
16:23:43  <TrueBrain> SILENCE! I KILL YOU!
16:23:56  * TrueBrain loves Jeff Dunham :)
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16:26:53  <TrueBrain> Zuu: so in 75 minutes you know if you really have to start to worry :)
16:27:17  <Zuu> :-)
16:28:30  <Zuu> Figured that I really didn't need to upgrade in order to check which tags are used by different AIs. Other than I might miss some AIs out that require something newer than r16600.
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16:34:17  <Zuu> Could of course check on my laptop where I have a much more recent nightly.
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16:38:40  <glx> Zuu: win32 compiles fine for me, so I just blame CF ;)
16:38:58  <Zuu> glx: nice
16:39:04  <Zuu> Thanks for checking out.
16:39:43  <Zuu> Couldn't find any AIs available on r17295 but not on r16600.
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16:44:58  <TrueBrain> Zuu: you could have just downloaded any older nightly :p
16:45:50  <Zuu> But then i need to do it manually. If I have spent a huge amount of hours to write OpenTTD Auto Update, then of course I want to use it. :-p
16:46:00  <TrueBrain> ghehehe :)
16:46:02  <TrueBrain> fair enough ;)
16:46:50  <Rubidium> so that calls for a feature: the latest *available* nightly!
16:47:04  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: we don't supply that info :p
16:47:25  <Rubidium> true
16:47:42  <Zuu> So that would require me to keep a list somewhere of nightlies that have been published as last nightly previously. => more work
16:47:58  <TrueBrain> I think we need a buildbot
16:48:02  * TrueBrain gniffels now
16:48:07  <Rubidium> well, doesn't "feature" imply "more work"?
16:48:38  <Zuu> Though it could be intrepreted from the page
16:48:38  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: that requires running OSX native
16:48:45  * Rubidium gniffles now
16:48:55  <TrueBrain> Zuu: please don't ... HUGE page ...
16:48:59  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: working on it ........
16:49:40  <Belugas> burp
16:50:06  <Zuu> TrueBrain: Don't wory, I am not in the mood for doing it and that would certainly require caching of that page.
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17:34:40  <Belugas> toumtedoum te PAM PAM!
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17:45:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17332 /trunk/src/lang/ (english_US.txt german.txt italian.txt korean.txt):
17:45:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 1 changes by agenthh
17:45:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by Roujin
17:45:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 5 changes by lorenzodv
17:45:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 20 changes by darkhasa
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18:01:49  <Kodak> how do i enable the trams?
18:01:58  <Kodak> they seem to be disabled for my game :\
18:02:02  <Zuu> Load a GRF with trams
18:02:24  <Kodak> i can't after a game is started, can i?
18:02:49  <Zuu> It might work to add it afterwards, as it is mostly removing that is dangerous.
18:03:00  <Zuu> But definitely save before you add it.
18:03:24  <Zuu> Also adding grfs that can conflict with other grfs can cause trouble.
18:03:41  <Kodak> k, but i really don't bother with anything else
18:03:49  <Kodak> generic tram set if alright with me
18:04:00  <Zuu> Sure that is a good start.
18:04:26  <Kodak> all the newgrf settings are greyed out though..
18:04:36  <Kodak> do i have to do it from the main menu?
18:04:46  <Zuu> Hmm, not if you want to affect a running game.
18:05:07  <Zuu> Are you on a multiplayer game?
18:06:31  <Zuu> When you got the generic trams grf loaded, then you click on the roads toolbar button and hold the mouse button and find a tram option there.
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18:09:33  <Kodak> well it's a loaded multiplayer game, yeah
18:10:00  <Kodak> i just don't get why it wasn't already loaded, the generic tram set
18:10:08  <Kodak> we realised after starting the game
18:10:24  <Kodak> and now it's 2003 -.-
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18:11:48  <Zuu> If you want to have it loaded for new games, then you need to do that in the NewGRFs dialog in the main menu.
18:13:09  <Zuu> That said, I just tried to load a multiplayer game I hosted long time ago with a friend, and the NewGRF settings are not grayed out.
18:13:16  <Zuu> At least not the Add-button.
18:13:31  <Zuu> Using r16600
18:13:38  <Zuu> What OpenTTD version do you use?
18:14:00  <Kodak> i loaded it in the main menu now anyway
18:14:03  <Kodak> 0.7.2
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18:16:21  <Kodak> hey, i loaded it in single player, and the Add worked
18:16:31  <Kodak> gave me a warning it might crash, but i accepted
18:16:36  <Kodak> no crash :P
18:16:47  <Kodak> saved it, and gonna load in multiplayer now
18:16:51  <Kodak> let's hope it works alright :P
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18:17:43  <Kodak> seems to be working :)
18:22:25  <Kodak> is there a shorcut key to access the road construction menu?
18:22:45  <Kodak> or  how about any of the other construction menus?
18:22:55  <Kodak> i know "A" for railway
18:23:57  <Rubidium> Shift+F8?
18:24:32  <Zuu> And then 3 for autoroad
18:24:41  <Zuu> (when you have opened the road toolbar)
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19:14:08  <planetmaker> good evening
19:15:06  <Prof_Frink> Evenin' Slarti
19:16:12  <SmatZ> hello Ingo
19:16:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17333 /trunk/src/ (roadveh_cmd.cpp yapf/yapf.h yapf/yapf_road.cpp):
19:16:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: make the road pathfinder 'interface' like the one for the rail pathfinder
19:16:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3057]: road vehicles forgetting their servicing order when the path takes them away (in bird distance) from their destination first
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19:30:40  <fjb> Hello
19:30:45  <planetmaker> hi
19:33:13  <frosch123> moin
19:33:27  * Zuu waves
19:33:43  * Belugas splashes
19:34:26  <planetmaker> hm... where do I find e.g. the code which is executed, if an assert happens on a windows machine, which handles the information gathered and displayed in that case?
19:34:59  <Zuu> You need the pdb file I think
19:35:00  <frosch123> the crashlog thingie?
19:35:13  <planetmaker> yes. The equivalent to what I find in
19:35:28  <Zuu> As well as a dumpfile that has been created when OpenTTD crashes.
19:35:50  * Rubidium thinks pm is looking for a filename, right? Tried win32.cpp?
19:36:01  <planetmaker> no, I didn't try :-D
19:36:20  <planetmaker> I was rather (unsuccessfully) grepping for things which came to my mind and might be in there, too
19:37:00  <planetmaker> hm... why is macos stuff in src/os/macosx, but the windows stuff in src ?
19:37:18  <Rubidium> hysterical raisins :)
19:37:44  <planetmaker> :-)
19:38:01  <planetmaker> Zuu: thanks nevertheless. I should have been more clear
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19:41:01  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: and because mac needs so many files :p
19:42:52  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: the win* files are half as many as in src/os/macosx, but in size, they're twice as much code
19:43:28  <TrueBrain> :)
19:43:29  <TrueBrain> I know :p
19:43:37  <planetmaker> :-P
19:43:47  <planetmaker> pf. and I had to look it up ;-)
19:44:45  <planetmaker> does the windows crash handler actually report the newgrfs used?
19:46:00  <TrueBrain> I believe it does, but that you will need to look up :p :p
19:47:11  <Rubidium> yes it does
19:47:34  <Rubidium>
19:47:41  <Rubidium> or actually, it dumps the gamelog
19:48:01  <Rubidium> which is slightly more verbose than 'just' the NewGRFs that are used at that moment
19:48:17  <TrueBrain> is it a general function?
19:48:24  <Rubidium> yup
19:48:35  <TrueBrain> so why doesn't the OSX version have it? :p
19:48:41  <planetmaker> hm... that then should be used there, too ^^
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19:49:20  <Rubidium> well, at least generic enough
19:49:34  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: primarily because of FS#2782
19:50:04  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I meant more: he who added it the general function, should have done OSX too :p :p
19:50:05  <planetmaker> :-P
19:50:23  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: without a way to test it?
19:50:40  <planetmaker> well. It's basically writing a text file.
19:50:58  <planetmaker> Which is more or less OS-independent. Or is my conception of this crash.log wrong?
19:50:58  <Rubidium> yes, which osx isn't doing at the moment
19:51:04  <planetmaker> obviously
19:51:13  <Rubidium> crash.log is only made for windows
19:51:20  <Rubidium> linux/osx don't do it
19:51:25  <planetmaker> what does lin do in such case?
19:51:41  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I guess it is time to make all platforms generate such file?
19:53:35  <Rubidium> then you first need a way to reliably capture the crashes
19:54:17  <TrueBrain> why? If it can generate it in 20% of the cases, it is more than in 0% ;)
19:54:24  <planetmaker> the gamelog is started anyway, is it?
19:54:35  <TrueBrain> either way, isn't signal() not reliable enough?
19:54:41  <planetmaker> it's just not written, right?
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19:54:49  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: nope, it crashes on (some) OSXes
19:54:59  <TrueBrain> ah, that problem :) But that was fixed, not?
19:55:05  <Rubidium> no, it was hacked around
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19:55:27  <TrueBrain> ah :) Still ;)
19:55:44  * Rubidium wonders how signal and gdb work together
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20:01:42  <planetmaker> sigXXX crashes some OSX? interesting...
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20:08:37  <Rubidium> planetmaker:
20:09:40  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: so you say we first need to fix this rare case and exception, before we can make a system that generates crash.log for all systems?
20:09:43  <TrueBrain> sounds a bit .. unreasonable
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20:10:40  <Rubidium> no, just don't expect me to make it for morhpos or os/2 or get it tested on OSX
20:10:42  <planetmaker> hm, ok. 10.3
20:11:01  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I never did ;) I just asked if it wasn't time to do so :)
20:11:05  <TrueBrain> I never asked you to do anything ;)
20:11:38  <Rubidium> in that case: it's always time for someone to code some improvement :)
20:11:40  *** tux_mark_5 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:12:48  <TrueBrain> so you agree it would be an improvment .. wasn't that what I was asking? :)
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20:14:33  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: not really; I interpreted as someone saying, 'TrueBrain, isn't it time to do the groceries?'
20:15:07  <TrueBrain> haha, fair point :) Was not intended at all, as in fact I was kind of suggesting I took on that task .. or maybe planetmaker :p
20:15:13  <Rubidium> i.e. go do the groceries you lazy guy
20:16:02  <TrueBrain> either way, strange defense: no, I don't do the groceries, as there might be a roadwork between here and the grociers , in a street I rarely take anyway :p
20:18:46  <planetmaker> he... honestly, I think a complete cross-platform unification / partly re-write of how crashes are handled might be still a bit over my head
20:19:04  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: 'complete' might be too much :)
20:19:17  <TrueBrain> just the fact to generate a crash.log and put similar info in it, might be enough :)
20:19:19  <planetmaker> ;-)
20:19:26  <TrueBrain> but okay .. I hope to help you soon on a few OSX issues :)
20:19:41  <TrueBrain> if I ever get this darn vbox to work, or get my video-driver to work
20:19:47  <TrueBrain> (as I am NOT going to develop in 1024x768
20:20:47  <Rubidium> lemoto deskutopu?
20:20:59  <Rubidium> or whatever OSX uses for that
20:21:08  <TrueBrain> que?
20:21:29  <TrueBrain> remote desktop?
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20:21:38  <TrueBrain> not possible to your local machine :p :p
20:21:43  <Rubidium> :O he can 'understand' Japanese :)
20:21:55  <planetmaker> :-)
20:21:58  <TrueBrain> I can try to boot 2 OSes next to eachother, but I doubt he accepts that :p
20:22:08  <Rubidium> what? Parallels doesn't work?
20:22:18  <TrueBrain> not without VT-X :p
20:22:38  <planetmaker> parallels does work... in some environments :-)
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20:34:16  <planetmaker> ok. In principle it's no problem to get the gamelog there, too. That works
20:34:24  <planetmaker> Now I just need to get it written.
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20:38:57  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
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20:48:38  <TrueBrain> glx: <- might work for you?
20:51:31  <glx> hmm but he uses a real HD it seems
20:51:44  <TrueBrain> that would suck
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20:52:15  <glx> though I'm not registered so I can't download the pdf
20:53:15  <glx> ha it's in the zip too
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21:02:35  <glx> TrueBrain: won't work for me
21:02:42  <glx> "as the CPU MUST also support VT-x extensions, and have a system BIOS that enables VT-x"
21:02:46  <TrueBrain> too bad
21:02:51  <TrueBrain> was worth a shot .. won't work here either
21:02:54  <TrueBrain> oh well
21:02:56  <TrueBrain> time to find my bed :)
21:02:58  <TrueBrain> night all!
21:03:05  <Noldo> what are you trying to do?
21:03:23  <TrueBrain> getting OSX back under the 'supported' section
21:03:25  <Nite_Owl> later TrueBrain
21:03:45  <TrueBrain> although planetmaker is doing an good job so far :)
21:03:51  <Noldo> and you need virtualized OSX to do it?
21:03:59  <TrueBrain> or you want to buy us the hardware?
21:04:08  <glx> but not having VT-x (or AMD-V) is a problem for virtual machines only it seems
21:04:18  <planetmaker> g'night TrueBrain
21:04:20  <TrueBrain> glx: native you don't need VT-x for sure
21:04:26  <TrueBrain> I can run OSX without VT-x :)
21:04:34  <TrueBrain> you need voodoo-kernel if you have AMD
21:04:40  <TrueBrain> (I can run vanilla kernels)
21:04:44  <glx> I can boot the installer on my machine :)
21:04:53  <nicfer> I think that the local authority should be reworked
21:04:56  <TrueBrain> and most of those installers have enough AMD hacks :)
21:05:04  <glx> but it just fails in vmware
21:05:20  <TrueBrain> glx: but without virtualization it is a bitch to boot to OSX and work there
21:05:25  <TrueBrain> out of your comfort-zone ;)
21:05:39  <glx> well 10.4.8 boots fine
21:05:45  <glx> it's just slow
21:06:04  <glx> but that's because missing vmware vesa 2 drivers for tiger
21:06:07  <TrueBrain> you need speed to .. 45min per compile it not anywhere near a working env :)
21:06:22  <TrueBrain> but okay, classes in the morning, good night :)
21:06:30  <Xaroth> nn TrueBrain
21:06:32  <glx> same happens in linux or windows VM without vmware tools installed
21:06:50  <glx> as soon they are installed speed increase
21:07:04  <nicfer> instead of disallowing you to build stations, how about making everything you build near there more expensive?
21:07:20  <glx> but vmware tools for OSX requires at least leopard
21:07:30  <nicfer> lesser income for cargo moved from/to there?
21:07:53  <Nite_Owl> two words: magic bulldozer
21:07:54  <Rubidium> hmm...
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21:08:07  <Rubidium> 256 MB of memory for your graphical card, is that a lot?
21:08:08  <nicfer> expensiver running costs
21:08:13  <Rubidium> for a dedicated server?
21:08:19  <nicfer> two words: no cheating
21:08:33  <Rubidium> (which has no video output)
21:08:36  <Xaroth> standard-ish nowadays with the new line graphic chips
21:08:51  <Nite_Owl> two more words: no fun
21:10:21  *** frosch123 [~frosch@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:10:52  <blathijs> Rubidium: Neh, it just allows you to run a second OS entirely in the graphics card...
21:12:26  <nicfer> well, actually its no fun when the LA rejects you to build stations but still lets you fullfill everything around the city with land-owning signs or railtracks?
21:12:53  <nicfer> or even worse, landfill everything you can
21:12:58  <Nite_Owl> two further words: plant trees
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21:20:14  <planetmaker> <-- This, of course, is just a quick hack, though it works with crash.log
21:20:29  <planetmaker> Windows, though, uses a range of custom, more high-level commands.
21:20:48  <planetmaker> Would it be wrong to resort to this low-level c syntax for any OS for the crash.log?
21:40:28  *** z-MaTRiX [] has joined #openttd
21:40:32  <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho :)
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22:13:53  <PeterT> does openttd have support for windows 7?
22:14:37  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:15:40  <Eddi|zuHause> did you try?
22:15:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17334 /trunk/src/airport_movement.h: -Fix: don't turn north just before approaching the landing strip of the small airport
22:17:24  <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause, no
22:17:37  <PeterT> windows 7 isnt released yet, silly
22:17:44  <PeterT> just betas
22:18:27  <Yexo> PeterT: so how should we know whether it works?
22:18:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17335 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_road.cpp: -Fix (r17333): don't return a pointer as boolean
22:18:37  *** tux_mark_5 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:18:50  <PeterT> someone with time and a computer could dl win7
22:19:23  *** PeterT [] has quit [Quit: Goodbye]
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22:22:11  <TinoDidriksen> Win7 is in RC, freely available though they now removed the downloads. I have it installed on my laptop.
22:22:28  <PeterT> did you test openttd with it?
22:22:36  <TinoDidriksen> No, but can do...
22:22:47  <PeterT> would you?
22:22:55  <SmatZ> hmm
22:22:58  <SmatZ> OSX 10.6
22:23:00  <SmatZ> Win7
22:23:00  <PeterT> and make sure its a latest trunk
22:23:02  <TinoDidriksen> Sure, just a few minutes.
22:23:11  <SmatZ> a lot of "it doesn't work!" bugreports are coming :-/
22:23:19  <PeterT> well, i meant, whenever you have time
22:23:29  <PeterT> but SmatZ!! it doesnt work!
22:23:39  <SmatZ> booh :(
22:24:41  <PeterT> developers, how often do you look at and openttd problems forum?
22:24:54  <Yexo> very often
22:25:49  <Eddi|zuHause> the more often people ask, the less often they look
22:25:54  <SmatZ> hehe
22:26:04  <PeterT> what i though
22:26:04  <SmatZ> bugs should go to anyway
22:26:18  <PeterT> actual problems to openttd problems?
22:27:19  <PeterT> recently, hyronumos (if thats how you spell it) locked a topic in openttd graphics, how did he do this without being an openttd developer?
22:27:30  <PeterT> he is a moderator
22:27:43  <PeterT> but it said moderators for openttd are the developers
22:27:46  <Yexo> because he is a global forum moderator
22:28:10  <Yexo> and not all developers are moderators
22:28:23  <PeterT> oh i understand
22:28:26  <PeterT> they aren't?
22:28:28  <PeterT> why?
22:28:33  <Yexo> only those with an orange name
22:28:35  <PeterT> i know rubi_dium
22:28:41  <PeterT> you?
22:28:44  <Yexo> <- see there
22:28:56  <TinoDidriksen> Downloaded r17332, installed, loaded a game...seems to work fine in Win7 RC 64bit.
22:29:18  <PeterT> sweet
22:29:26  <PeterT> is that the latest trunk?
22:29:30  <PeterT> or close?
22:29:39  <TinoDidriksen> Was the latest nightly on the site...
22:29:43  <PeterT> good
22:29:51  <Yexo> latest trunk is r17335 (as of 11 minutes ago)
22:30:14  <TinoDidriksen> So reasonably up to date...
22:30:54  <PeterT> i recently understood what "r" was
22:31:09  <PeterT> not the number of days since the initial release
22:31:20  <PeterT> it was the amount of changes done in a day
22:31:29  <TinoDidriksen> Revision, yes.
22:31:29  <PeterT> i was wondering because you skipped numbers
22:32:12  <KenjiE20> lol, I'd love to see 17000 changes per day
22:32:21  <PeterT> so, why is only bjarni, truebrai_n, matthijs, celestar_, petern_, and rubidi_um moderators
22:33:44  <Xaroth> because they are also developers?
22:34:05  <PeterT> so why not yexo?
22:34:09  <PeterT> (and company0
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22:34:47  <Yexo> PeterT: because they are also developers, and because orudge doesn't want to have too much moderators (a very valid point if you ask me)
22:35:03  <Rubidium> ofcourse it works in win7; it's not like apple where they remove a load of API each release and don't maintain APIs through more than 2 releases
22:35:53  <PeterT> Yexo: then you have the same priviledges as the troll who spams the forums, what good is that?
22:35:57  <TinoDidriksen> Actually, Win7 breaks quite a lot according to the interwebs...hence why they felt a need for XP Mode.
22:36:21  <Yexo> PeterT: and the same privileges as you have, I don't see a problem?
22:36:34  <Yexo> if I see spam / unwanted post I use the report function like every member can
22:36:47  <PeterT> and moderators actually look at it?
22:36:55  <Yexo> I suppose so
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22:37:19  <Yexo> although I never get response the spam has always been removed
22:37:31  *** Combuster [] has joined #openttd
22:37:39  <Yexo> besides, it's not like the openttd forum needs more moderators
22:38:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17336 /trunk/ (31 files in 10 dirs): -Codechange: move some os specific files into src/os/
22:39:12  <PeterT> why does it do that?
22:39:30  <Yexo> what did what?
22:39:31  <TinoDidriksen> It informs of new revision commits.
22:39:49  <PeterT> why?
22:40:02  <TinoDidriksen> Very useful so people know to svn up their own working copies.
22:40:19  <Yexo> and it's easy to follow what is changing
22:40:30  <PeterT> isnt there an ottd channel devoted to that?
22:40:39  <Yexo> yes, #openttd.notice
22:40:41  <PeterT> openttd.notice
22:41:02  <PeterT> so basically, you download the source, change it however, then upload it again
22:41:13  <TinoDidriksen> Not everyone can commit...
22:41:30  <Yexo> PeterT: that's basically the process, but not everyone can upload their code
22:41:40  <PeterT> just developers/
22:41:41  <Yexo> and we use svn to track all changes
22:42:57  <PeterT> what does it take for a patch to get into trunk?
22:43:10  <TinoDidriksen> That it works and is approved by the developers.
22:43:26  <Yexo> the patch having a clear goal (ie bug fix / 1 feature), and what TinoDidriksen said
22:43:54  <PeterT> so why isnt amazing patches like server list filtering included?
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22:44:13  <Yexo> because they are not approved yet by a developer ;)
22:44:27  <PeterT> do you approve?
22:44:35  <PeterT> i think its handy, dont you?
22:44:43  <TinoDidriksen> It could be they disrupt too much of the code base to make their thing work...
22:44:45  <Yexo> no idea, haven't looked at that patch recently
22:45:05  <Yexo> PeterT: "approve" != the idea is nice
22:45:23  <PeterT> TinoDidriksen, it works on 0.7.2?
22:45:30  <Yexo> it also means checking the code, seeing of it complies to coding style and if there are no obvious bugs
22:45:52  <Terkhen> I remember that one of the devs posted some issues with that patch, issues that weren't solved
22:45:54  <PeterT> is cargodest coming soon?
22:46:04  <Yexo> cargodest is very outdated by now
22:46:11  <Yexo> so not soon
22:46:11  <Xaroth> I doubt cargod*st is going in trunk any time soon
22:46:43  <PeterT> cargodist, cargodest, i dont care which, just want one of them
22:46:52  <PeterT> *would like ;)
22:46:55  <Xaroth> compile it yourself :)
22:47:18  <PeterT> i cant compile cargodist and IS
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22:47:34  <Xaroth> IS should have precompiled binaries anyhow
22:47:36  <PeterT> without compile fails, then crashes
22:47:42  *** AC6000__ is now known as AC6000
22:47:45  <PeterT> Xaroth, you dont get it, do you?
22:47:45  <Yexo> cargodist still crashes regurarly (according to reports in it's forum thread)
22:47:46  <Rubidium> talking about copy&paste?
22:47:55  <PeterT> cargodist and IS
22:47:56  <Rubidium> or is my guess wrong?
22:47:59  <Xaroth> ah
22:48:09  <PeterT> copy and paste should NEVER be in trunk!!!
22:48:11  <Terkhen> server list filtering, cargodist and IS
22:48:13  <PeterT> ever!!!
22:48:41  * Rubidium likes to guess what the topic is when lots of lines aren't displayed
22:48:46  <Xaroth> so basically you want cargodist in trunk, so you can have somebody else make sure cargodist + IS works?
22:48:55  <KenjiE20> Rubidium: lol
22:49:02  <PeterT> close
22:49:16  <Terkhen> okay, next time I'll only answer with yes or no :P
22:49:20  <PeterT> cargod*st in trunk, then i can patch with IS2.0-b3
22:49:27  <PeterT> and create the ultimate patchpack
22:49:27  <Xaroth> as i said
22:49:41  <Xaroth> you want cargod*st in trunk, so you can have somebody else make sure cargod*st + IS works..
22:49:54  <Xaroth> since else they wouldn't release a patch...
22:49:59  <Xaroth> (i hope o_O )
22:50:08  <PeterT> grr, nevermind
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22:50:57  <Yexo> PeterT: I can't even find a server list filtering patch (although I know it exists)
22:51:09  <Rubidium> Yexo: page #3
22:51:28  <Yexo> ah :)
22:51:31  <PeterT> actually, its number 2
22:51:34  <PeterT> in search
22:51:43  <PeterT>
22:52:19  <fjb> If all the patches beside one are in trunk that one patch will really be a big patch pack.
22:53:40  <Rubidium> really? It'd probably be ln's "don't allow openttd to be started as root"-patch
22:54:15  <Rubidium> which basically adds like 1 line
22:54:20  * AC6000 wonders if making ,000,000 a year is too much....
22:54:31  <Xaroth> 30 million?
22:54:35  <PeterT> sheesh, i just marked openttd forums as read, and within 2 minutes there are already 4 posts
22:54:39  <Rubidium> depends on the kind of $
22:54:55  <AC6000> 30 million USD :P
22:55:00  <Xaroth> I usually don't stop till i reach the 100m/year
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22:55:40  <AC6000> another 400 million and i'll have 1 billion
22:55:43  <AC6000> :P
22:56:03  <Rubidium> if it's real USD it's quite a lot (for a single person), if it's in-game then probably not
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22:56:44  <AC6000> trust me, id blow it all in a month :P
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22:57:47  <Rubidium> don't think I would; blowing it in 1 month and then 11 months getting (next to) nothing vs getting 2.5 million a month
22:58:24  <AC6000> lol
22:58:36  <TinoDidriksen> I wouldn't know what to spend it all on in a single month...
22:58:58  <Xaroth> loooots of trains
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22:59:34  * AC6000 is using 8 planes, 10 trains and 21 buses
22:59:43  <PeterT> aha! 8 planes
22:59:50  <AC6000> the buses are a transfer service :P
23:01:27  <AC6000> 10 million for train income
23:01:36  <AC6000> double that for planes
23:01:40  <PeterT> exatcly
23:02:21  <AC6000> 27,777,860 last year
23:02:41  <PeterT> congratulations, stop bragging
23:02:41  *** Dreamxtreme [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:02:46  <AC6000> \<_<
23:02:50  <Xaroth> I hardly call that bragging.
23:02:51  <PeterT> :P
23:03:20  <AC6000> did i forget to mention i'm only using 2 airports? ^^
23:04:37  <Xaroth> game where i tried out various AI.. last year's income, 240,456,032 euro
23:04:50  <AC6000> O_o
23:04:52  <Xaroth> 1036 trains, 1319 rv, 523 airplanes
23:05:32  *** reldred [] has left #openttd []
23:05:45  <Xaroth> save game was a bit awkward tho, 7 AI's all steamrolling.. game is unplayable :P
23:06:03  <AC6000> xD
23:06:22  <AC6000> it would have crapped itself trying to load it :P
23:07:39  <Terkhen> good night!
23:08:18  *** Terkhen [] has quit [Quit: ...]
23:08:40  <AC6000> my largest station (still a WIP)
23:20:42  *** AC6000 [~AC6000@] has left #openttd []
23:22:40  <Eddi|zuHause> ... there is nothing to see here, move along ...
23:23:37  <fjb> Boring station.
23:25:55  <SmatZ> poor AC6k :-p
23:28:35  <KingJ> Sorry, i've got to agree, that is pretty boring
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23:39:24  <Coco-Banana-Man> Such a big station for 10 trains..? :O
23:40:33  <SmatZ> each train has its own platform ;)
23:41:05  <PeterT> AC6000, are you still running a server
23:41:25  <KingJ> [00:20] * AC6000 (~AC6000@ has left #openttd
23:41:51  <PeterT> oh
23:42:00  <Coco-Banana-Man> well, some trains even more than one xD
23:42:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17337 /trunk/src/airport_movement.h: -Fix: some more strange airport holding bay positions
23:43:18  <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: is really onto these darn airports :p
23:43:29  <Eddi|zuHause> s/://
23:43:53  <Yexo> I have a (very basic, with lots of bugs) newgrf airport working
23:44:05  <Yexo> where the statemachine is completely done by newgrf callbacks
23:44:15  <Eddi|zuHause> "f?r die einen ist es ein Regexp, f?r die anderen der l?ngste Smilie der Welt"
23:45:28  <Eddi|zuHause> (derivate of a commercial spot)
23:48:18  <fjb> Will the grf have to supply complete airports or do you parts from which you build your own layout like train stations?
23:48:51  <Yexo> complete airports
23:49:14  <Yexo> <- I am (very loosely) following that specification
23:50:15  <SmatZ> @seen celestar
23:50:15  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: celestar was last seen in #openttd 18 weeks, 5 days, 15 hours, 51 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <Celestar> morning
23:50:25  <PeterT> damn
23:50:27  <PeterT> thats a while ago
23:50:37  <PeterT> @seen PeterT
23:50:37  <DorpsGek> PeterT: PeterT was last seen in #openttd 9 seconds ago: <PeterT> thats a while ago
23:51:00  <SmatZ> @seen tron
23:51:00  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: tron was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 29 weeks, 0 days, 10 hours, 27 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <Tron> gcc 2.95 is plain obsolete (even has several bugs in its C++ part). further at the very least the justifications given are extremely oversimplified.
23:51:17  <SmatZ> @seen vurlix
23:51:17  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: I have not seen vurlix.
23:51:21  <SmatZ> @seen ludde
23:51:21  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: ludde was last seen in #openttd 46 weeks, 1 day, 15 hours, 6 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <ludde> ;)
23:51:29  <SmatZ> :)
23:51:39  <PeterT> ludde!
23:51:42  <PeterT> the creator!
23:51:48  <SmatZ> !!!
23:51:56  <PeterT> if we didnt have ludde, we wouldnt have utorrent
23:52:06  *** PeterT [] has quit [Quit: Goodbye]
23:57:12  <Yexo> good night

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