Config
Log for #openttd on 2nd September 2009:
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01:10:02  <z-MaTRiX> reloaded
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01:20:55  <Dreamxtreme> revolutions
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02:38:17  <Belugas> resolutions
02:38:25  <Belugas> convolutions
02:38:30  <Belugas> absolutions
02:38:40  <Belugas> crucifictions
02:38:53  <Belugas> factsOrFictions
02:39:04  <Belugas> comeHereMyMinons
02:39:18  <glx> lol
02:48:02  <Belugas> hehe;)
02:48:16  <Belugas> see what certifications can do to a sane mind ;)
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02:54:55  <glx> night
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03:20:51  * Akoz slaps Belugas around a bit with a large trout
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06:00:43  * Zuu waves for changed aircraft holding patterns
06:01:09  <Zuu> Have to ask Yexo later if r17337 changes any patterns or not.
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06:19:17  <Tefad> for anyone who gives a crap, the Buoy station window thing doesn't have a resize handle.
06:19:40  <Tefad> and has blue title text. . .
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06:34:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17365 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: introduce wrapper functions to update the position, capacity and count of scroll bars. This to (eventually) prevent the scrollbar overflowing outside of the window
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07:01:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17366 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_gui.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: make the AI GUIs use the scrollbar wrappers
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07:16:51  <Ammler> guete Morg?
07:17:23  <Xaroth> morgen Ammler
07:17:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17367 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: make the autoreplace, bridge and build vehicle GUIs use the scrollbar wrappers
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07:19:37  <Farden123> hello
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07:22:17  <Ammler> Is it possible to replace 2 parts of a sprite with Action6?
07:22:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17368 /trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp: -Codechange: remove pointless passing of 'this' as parameter
07:26:22  <Rubidium> most unlikely
07:26:53  <Rubidium> are you talking about real of pseudo sprites?
07:32:51  <TrueBrain> pompiedmo
07:33:50  <TrueBrain> I cna't write tody
07:33:53  <TrueBrain> so much is obivous
07:34:00  <TrueBrain> lol :) And consistant :)
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07:36:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17369 /trunk/src/ (depot_gui.cpp group_gui.cpp industry_gui.cpp): -Codechange: make the depot, group and industry GUIs use the scrollbar wrappers
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08:00:55  <planetmaker> morning
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08:08:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17370 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make the saveload and network GUIs use the scrollbar wrappers
08:19:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17371 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_gui.cpp news_gui.cpp order_gui.cpp): -Codechange: make the newgrf, news and order GUIs use the scrollbar wrappers
08:29:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17372 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp settings_gui.cpp signs_gui.cpp): -Codechange: make the settings, rail and sign GUIs use the scrollbar wrappers
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08:40:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17373 /trunk/src/ (station_gui.cpp subsidy_gui.cpp timetable_gui.cpp): -Codechange: make the timetable, station and subsidy GUIs use scrollbar wrappers
08:48:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17374 /trunk/src/ (town_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: make the town and vehicle GUIs use the scrollbar wrappers
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08:58:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17375 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove last direct usage of scrollbar variables
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09:49:44  <cipi97> :)
09:49:53  <cipi97> Hi everybody
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09:51:09  <nekomasterx> hello
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09:54:33  <nekomasterx> hello
09:55:14  <cipi97> Hi
09:55:29  <nekomasterx> Hello... not much seams to be going on...
09:56:28  <Eddi|zuHause> what? nothing? there was a whole scrollbar frenzy this morning!
09:57:04  <nekomasterx> Hmm?
09:57:09  <nekomasterx> i wasnt here for it
09:57:29  <Noldo> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/
09:57:41  <Eddi|zuHause> that is entirely your fault
09:57:57  <nekomasterx> whos fulat?
09:58:30  <Rubidium> your flat?
09:58:37  <nekomasterx> Lol
09:58:44  <nekomasterx> I see what you mean
09:59:10  <nekomasterx> hmm
09:59:22  <nekomasterx> is whats in that link a bad thing or a feature
10:00:04  <Eddi|zuHause> why would that have anything to do with each other?
10:00:18  <Noldo> it's just the commit log, you can see the stuff you missed there
10:00:30  <nekomasterx> sure...
10:01:01  <nekomasterx> so bored...
10:01:04  <nekomasterx> not much to do
10:01:20  <Eddi|zuHause> we can't help with that
10:01:26  <nekomasterx> well duh
10:01:49  <nekomasterx> *sits on a chair*
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10:03:08  <Rubidium> back to a nice silence again :)
10:03:15  <Doorslammer> God I hate him
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10:06:30  <Rubidium> is it a cloud, is it a plane, is it a bird? Yes it's PikkaBird :)
10:06:48  <Pikka> dadeedo!
10:07:15  <Doorslammer> PikkaBird, any bird
10:07:29  <Pikka> sup chaps
10:17:06  <Belugas> ho... fuck... Neko is from Toronto...
10:17:14  * Belugas will never put his feet there again
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10:44:16  <Eddi|zuHause> you know enough bad people from toronto now? :p
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10:48:05  <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho
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10:48:22  <Eddi|zuHause> if Pikka has bird flu, does he go Pikka Chu?
10:49:19  <SmatZ> hehe
10:49:22  <SmatZ> hello z-MaTRiX
10:49:43  <z-MaTRiX> SmatZ<< \o/
10:49:49  <Doorslammer> Eddi, your coat and hat awaits...
10:51:06  <Eddi|zuHause> nah, it's fine as long as no rotten vegetables are following a trajectory
10:51:41  <Doorslammer> Ill have a look in the fridge
10:52:08  <TrueBrain> burp
10:52:59  <SmatZ> eww
10:53:08  <TrueBrain> yes, that it was
10:54:00  <Doorslammer> Now what am I going to throw at Eddi?
10:54:18  <Doorslammer> That block of cheese was in there at least 4... hmmm, maybe 5 years?
10:54:47  <Eddi|zuHause> hey, that could be worth something by now ;)
10:55:52  * welshdragon spots a haggis
10:58:54  <Doorslammer> Ooh, ooh
10:58:56  <Doorslammer> Kill it
10:59:08  <Doorslammer> Thin the beasties!
10:59:14  * Pikkaa wonders how Yexo is getting on
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11:31:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17376 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Fix: also draw the white "I've just opened" line for nested windows
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11:49:51  <Pikka> dun dun dun!
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12:03:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17377 /trunk/src/widget_type.h: -Fix (r17365): MSVC complains about struct<>class difference
12:04:28  <TrueBrain> stupid MSVC :p
12:05:16  <TinoDidriksen> Complains how? Never noticed that.
12:05:25  <Yexo> complains = warns
12:06:49  <TinoDidriksen> Only if you mismatch, such as forward declare with class and define with struct...
12:07:03  <TrueBrain> but a class === a struct
12:07:16  <TrueBrain> (only the default private/public state is different)
12:07:28  <TrueBrain> (in C++ :p)
12:07:32  <TinoDidriksen> I know, but I'd consider that a fair warning...obviously, your code is inconsistent.
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12:11:34  <TinoDidriksen> But indeed, g++ doesn't even mention it, even at -ansi -pedantic -Wall -Wextra
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12:48:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17378 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_tile.cpp: -Fix [NoAI]: Several AITile::* functions didn't check whether their parameters were valid
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12:53:17  <Belugas> oh... Yexo... that is so inconsistent!
12:55:41  <Yexo> I blame TrueBrain!
12:55:43  <Yexo> :p
12:56:08  <TrueBrain> I take the blame!
12:56:13  <TrueBrain> (does that make you happy?)
12:57:01  <Yexo> no
12:57:04  <Yexo> (should it?)
12:57:16  <TrueBrain> I was hoping so. Why else would I take the blame?
12:58:26  <Belugas> ...
12:58:35  <Belugas> that was... ironic on my behalf...
12:58:36  <TrueBrain> oeh, I know thatone
12:58:37  <TrueBrain> DOTS!
12:58:58  <Rubidium> ... is the new lol
12:59:04  <Belugas> heheh
12:59:13  <Yexo> ...
12:59:26  <Rubidium> rof...
13:00:00  <TrueBrain> EPIC FAIL!
13:00:26  <Belugas> picepicecolegram
13:00:34  <Belugas> boureboureratatam
13:00:46  <glx> amstramgram
13:00:48  <TrueBrain> weirdweirdperson
13:00:50  <Belugas> eyah :D
13:01:01  <Belugas> glx knows ;)
13:01:23  <TrueBrain> he knows all, not?
13:01:52  <Belugas> well... a lot.
13:02:00  <Belugas> silent wizard
13:03:45  <TrueBrain> I HATE flash websites
13:04:15  <Belugas> have you tried spiderman websites?
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13:10:19  <Aankhen``> I've seen a few zoomed out, top down pictures of maps (giving an overview of the network, usually).  Is there some kind of tool that takes those pictures?
13:11:07  <Belugas> a patch, if i recall correctly
13:11:29  <Aankhen``> Ah.
13:11:33  <Belugas> if you mean a screenshot withouth the usual projection, of course
13:11:50  <TrueBrain> no: photoshop / gimp
13:11:53  <Aankhen``> I'm not sure I understand what projection is in this context.
13:11:58  <TrueBrain> big screenshot, rotate 45 degrees, and tada
13:13:22  <Aankhen``> http://www.openttdcoop.org/blog/files/pictures/osqc%2301_map.png # an example of what I meant.
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13:13:32  <Aankhen``> That's done with image manipulation programs?
13:13:54  <TrueBrain> yes
13:14:54  <Aankhen``> Huh.  How does it take a 2D image of a 3D object and provide a view of the same 3D object from another angle?
13:15:11  <Ammler> he, I get 403 there
13:15:14  <TrueBrain> [15:11] <TrueBrain> big screenshot, rotate 45 degrees, and tada
13:15:22  <Belugas> ho... yeah... that is done with imaging software
13:15:37  <TrueBrain> (well, there is some stretching involved too of course)
13:15:48  <Aankhen``> Ah.
13:16:07  <Aankhen``> I'll try it out, thanks for the pointer.
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13:21:31  <tdev> morning :)
13:21:38  <tdev> also, seems to work: http://openttd.buildbotfarm.net:10301/waterfall
13:22:07  <Belugas> hey tdev
13:23:34  <TrueBrain> too bad we don't have enough resources to compile on every commit ..
13:24:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17379 /trunk/src/ (company_cmd.cpp graph_gui.cpp): -Codechange: make the performance rating window nested, although it still needs some improvements
13:25:01  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: why not? average of ~10 commits a day, with 45 minutes a compile -> lots of spare time :)
13:25:43  <Yexo> that only works for the average day
13:25:50  <Yexo> there are 12 commits in the last 6 hours
13:25:52  <Belugas> "don't commit before compile farm kicks in"
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13:27:16  <tdev> do you have any more ideas what to do with the buildbot?
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13:28:17  <Aankhen``> The buildbot doesn't queue up builds?
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13:38:36  <tdev> Aankhen``, it does
13:39:26  <Aankhen``> So then can't it just dump every commit in the queue?
13:39:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17380 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Codechange: move drawing the performance detail data to DrawWidget
13:40:08  <tdev> Aankhen``, i dont get what you mean with that
13:40:46  <Belugas> i gues you both are not talking about the same thing :)
13:40:55  <Aankhen``> Heh, guess not.  Nevermind.
13:42:27  <tdev> so who wants to attach different arichtecutres to the buildbot? ;)
13:42:55  <Belugas> ho... i would LOVE to
13:43:04  <Belugas> but i suck in building drawing
13:43:24  <tdev> heh?
13:43:30  <Belugas> architectures...
13:43:35  * Aankhen`` giggles.
13:43:50  <Pikka> the... architect sketch.  up there!
13:44:14  <Belugas> mister Artist!
13:44:53  <tdev> hrhr
13:48:33  <Xaroth> tdev: the Reasons show as "Reason: " on the commits, why not make that show the commit message as well? :o
13:49:34  <Rubidium> what's the point of the buildbot anyway?
13:49:45  <Xaroth> oh and I hope the "Build #" are going to reflect the revision of the svn? or is it a different indicator
13:49:57  <tdev> Rubidium, look at this: http://lighttpd.buildbotfarm.net:10201/waterfall
13:49:59  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: in theory it can be useful if it would be in the openttd.org, as an early warning indicator of problems, like for OSX and the like :p
13:50:27  <Rubidium> yeah, but then it needs to check *all* configurations and not only a dedicated server without any GUI stuff
13:50:45  <TrueBrain> yes, it would require all targets to be useful
13:50:47  <tdev> thats the idea i wanted to work towards
13:51:10  <tdev> but it depends on users attaching slaves in macos for example
13:51:14  <Rubidium> still you'll get a kind of 'target' explosion
13:51:19  <TrueBrain> and we don't have enough trusted resources to run such system
13:51:37  <tdev> i doesnt need to be trusted, since the result is not used
13:51:47  <tdev> *it
13:52:00  <TrueBrain> non-trusted can trigger unneeded warnings and errors
13:52:02  <Rubidium> with+without libpng, with+without networking, with+without GUI, with+without freetype, with+without fontconfig, with+without icu, with+without sdl, with+without allegro, ...
13:52:22  <tdev> Rubidium, the lighttpd guys just enable all flags
13:52:27  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: that would be a complete set yes, which you can run once in the N time (no need to do that all the times
13:52:37  <TrueBrain> tdev: lighttpd != OpenTTD
13:52:52  <tdev> TrueBrain, just as example how to handle flag sets
13:52:56  <TrueBrain> in lighttpd adding flags just adds things .. in OpenTTD it can greatly change behavoir
13:53:13  <TrueBrain> (mostly the with or without network)
13:53:15  <Pikka> Yexo: did we decide that we want to specify entry points?
13:53:23  <Rubidium> oh, please let them first fix that massive memory 'leak'... instead of ignoring it and "use ulimit + supervise" as solution
13:53:34  <Yexo> Pikka: a 4-byte array
13:53:43  <Pikka> *nods*
13:53:46  <Pikka> what's the order?
13:53:59  <Rubidium> NE then with the clock I reckon
13:54:04  <Yexo> but I think we need to reconsider changing the flags of the node table from word to byte
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13:54:19  <Yexo> NE/SE/SW/NW
13:54:34  <Yexo> currently coded at prop 0x18, but that can easily be changed
13:54:45  <Pikka> okay, I'll make it 0x18
13:55:06  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: yet those cases are the cases that are tested least and where it takes longest to find
13:55:24  <Pikka> flags... are already a byte? :o  at least, they are in the spec on the wiki page
13:55:32  <Rubidium> nevertheless, you'd probably end up with a shitload of compilers (msvc, gcc, icc)
13:55:37  <Pikka> xx xx yy yy zz zz dd ff
13:55:39  <Yexo> yes, but internally inopenttd they are a word
13:55:49  <Rubidium> then the various architectures with their different shell implementations
13:55:50  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: such flags you can test every 24 hours with 1 compiler, for example
13:55:56  <Yexo> and there are several flags that can be usefull to have
13:56:01  <TrueBrain> they are not that sensitive to other compilers and/or platforms
13:56:17  <Yexo> http://pastebin.com/me3f1046 <- current flags
13:56:20  <TrueBrain> the idea is more to test it for various of architects and compilers
13:56:22  <tdev> the main work would be to setup this logic
13:56:28  <TrueBrain> like MSVC always bitching us gcc users ;)
13:56:39  <TrueBrain> (and gcc always bitching those MSVC users :p)
13:56:44  <Yexo> LAND / TAKEOFF are used for example to know when the z-pos should change
13:57:00  <Pikka> hmm
13:57:02  <Yexo> but maybe we want to use the z-value of the node for that
13:57:06  <Rubidium> well, how do you intend to 'catch' MSVC errors/warnings? It doesn't use stderr
13:57:13  <Pikka> yeah @ z value of the node
13:57:15  <TrueBrain> we do that now :)
13:57:26  <Pikka> so that we can have planes changing altitude in a stack, or sloped airports... ;)
13:59:05  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: really, take a look at the logs in http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r17134/logs/
13:59:42  <Rubidium> win64 and win32 do not have an error log, as such show not that there are some (actually a lot) warnings
13:59:53  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: a simple grep will solve that
14:00:05  <TrueBrain> really, don't start to give crappy arguments :) You know as well as I do that those problems can be overcome :)
14:00:38  <TrueBrain> if it wasn't for resources problems, we would have had a buildbot in CF2.0 :p
14:00:40  <Rubidium> ofcourse, but does it make sense to spend a lot of time on it?
14:00:53  <TrueBrain> in general it helps you catch errors much sooner
14:00:57  <Yexo> Pikka: then there is the NOSPDCLAMP flag
14:01:03  <Yexo> it's used for the maximum aircraft speed
14:01:14  <TrueBrain> yesterday alone I noticed 2 or 3 commits which fixed other compilers
14:02:06  <Rubidium> yeah, but you're going to run windows test compiles for:
14:02:08  <TrueBrain> and when is the last time anyone tried BSD?
14:02:12  <TrueBrain> and who knows who did that?
14:02:13  <Rubidium> gcc 3.4.5, gcc 4.4 and MSVC?
14:02:24  <Pikka> maximum aircraft speed while taxiing?
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14:02:41  <Rubidium> cause each compiler had it's own problems
14:02:49  <Rubidium> or warnings, or whatever :)
14:02:53  <TrueBrain> as I said, there is a resource problem
14:02:57  <TrueBrain> doesn't mean it wouldn't be useful
14:02:57  <tdev> im not here to cause problems, just trying to help :(
14:03:09  <TrueBrain> the resource problem being memory shortage, for the record
14:03:31  <Pikka> so NOSPDCLAMP should be set for... air nodes, or ground nodes?  Or could we just make it so that the speed is automatically clamped based on the aircraft's movement state?
14:03:31  <Rubidium> gheheh :)
14:03:33  <Yexo> Pikka: yes, relevant openttd code: http://pastebin.com/md74a28a
14:03:39  <Rubidium> yay for bloatware :)
14:03:41  <Yexo> it should be set for air nodes
14:03:56  <Yexo> but vehicle movement state is undefined in your spec
14:04:05  <Yexo> so while that's possible, in that case we need to define that
14:04:27  <TrueBrain> a VM simply consumes too much memory ...
14:04:36  <TrueBrain> (well, if you also want to allow it to compile :p)
14:04:56  <tdev> TrueBrain, the slaves can run remotely anywhere
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14:05:25  <Pikka> yexo: vehicle movement state can be set via the callback (returns 81 xx where xx = movement state)
14:05:43  <Pikka> vehicle movement state is vehicle var 80+62
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14:08:00  <Rubidium> anyhow, having a proper (AI) regression is probably more useful than a buildbot
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14:08:21  <TrueBrain> tdev: I was just explaining to Farden: yeah, sure, we can, but for how long? it is not good for a community to depend on the coming and going of people .. we have had enough problems with that in the past :p
14:08:21  <Yexo> pikka: vehicle var 80+62 in openttd is a mapping from the internal openttd state to approximately the same states in TTD
14:09:06  <tdev> TrueBrain, how would an open source project work otherways?
14:09:24  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I don't agree; they test different things
14:09:25  <tdev> TrueBrain, for example the core team could provide the slaves
14:09:30  <Rubidium> by ginormously long waiting
14:09:37  <TrueBrain> a buildbot gives code-correctness over compilers; a regression tests their working
14:10:01  <Pikkaa> so, we can clamp the speed if it's in an "on the ground" state?  is there a list of the ottd states somewhere, that's different from the list on the savegame internals page?
14:10:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17381 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Codechange: music track selection window uses nested widgets
14:10:22  <Rubidium> e.g. subversion takes a week between tagging the source release and actually doing the release because lots of third parties need to compile parts
14:10:23  <TrueBrain> tdev: say dev A supplies an OSX node. He leaves in 1 month. We are without OSX node again? People don't mind something you never had, but will notice IMMEDIATLY when something is no longer there
14:10:40  <Yexo> http://pastebin.com/m7cf97661 <- list of aircraft states
14:11:08  <Rubidium> for OpenTTD the time between tagging the source release and the binary release is under an hour
14:11:29  <Rubidium> with just a few keystrokes
14:11:57  <tdev> TrueBrain, very true, i agree :)
14:12:31  <TrueBrain> it is also the reason we now pay for hosting. At least this way we are sure we get it
14:12:37  <Rubidium> before the compile farm (basically everything over a year ago) it took a few hours to get a few binaries
14:12:43  <TrueBrain> (and that it doesn't depend on person A being active/here)
14:12:52  <Rubidium> and then you needed to poke the rest, like Bjarni (OSX) to get a binary
14:12:58  <tdev> i thought you get it sponsored?
14:13:05  <TrueBrain> sure, we get a good part sponsored
14:13:09  <TrueBrain> still leaves a good sum of money :)
14:13:21  <tdev> how much / moth?
14:13:24  <tdev> *month
14:13:25  <Rubidium> they would all manually go through all the steps of releasing making the occasional mistakes
14:13:46  *** Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:13:51  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: those good old days :) I am so happy we no longer have that problem :)
14:14:02  <Rubidium> me too
14:14:06  <Pikkaa> hmm @ yexo
14:14:08  <TrueBrain> tdev: so in theory what we just need, is some provider offering us some cheap sponsorship or what ever for a really fast machine :p
14:14:16  <TrueBrain> (yes, another one :p Like one quad-core is not enough :p)
14:14:23  <TrueBrain> and mostly: A LOTS of memory :p
14:14:23  <Rubidium> sometimes took literally weeks before some binaries where present and people started complaining about missing them etc.
14:14:25  <Pikkaa> this is confusing.. we have two slightly different state lists. D:
14:15:00  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: octocore OSX Xserve with 12 GB?
14:15:10  <tdev> TrueBrain, thats what i currnetly doing, i provide a linux x86 build slave?
14:15:14  <TrueBrain> hmmm .. Rubidium: YES PLEASE! :)
14:15:24  <Pikkaa> personally, I'd rather use the TTD one in grfs, and have OTTD map it to its internal states (such as those internal states are still required with newgrf airports)
14:15:32  <TrueBrain> tdev: you are not a provider, are you? :)
14:15:42  *** Pikkaa is now known as Pikka
14:15:51  <TrueBrain> I want a contract, for a year, which states the contract is extended with one year every year
14:15:54  <tdev> TrueBrain, no, but i have a big machine running in the web
14:15:55  <TrueBrain> I want uptime guarantees
14:16:01  <TrueBrain> can you offer that?
14:16:01  <Yexo> I don't think openttd doesn't need to know about the state at all for newgrf airports
14:16:07  <tdev> http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-produktmatrix/ :)
14:16:14  <Yexo> they are just used for the internal state machine
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14:16:16  <tdev> 50 euros / month is not much
14:16:27  <TrueBrain> clearly tdev doesn't understand :)
14:16:38  <Yexo> so I'd rather have the freedom for each newgrf to define their own list
14:16:38  <tdev> seems so ;)
14:16:52  <Pikkaa> yexo: I think I missed a line
14:16:53  <TrueBrain> lol, cheap servers :p
14:17:05  <Yexo> <Yexo> I don't think openttd doesn't need to know about the state at all for newgrf airports
14:17:08  <Yexo> <Yexo> they are just used for the internal state machine
14:17:13  <Pikkaa> *nods*
14:17:34  <Yexo> but that means that we need another thing to use for speed clamping
14:17:47  <Pikkaa> but aircraft grfs (like av8) still use the states for graphics and speed variation
14:17:48  <tdev> TrueBrain, what about those servers?
14:18:13  <TrueBrain> tdev: this is an open source community :) No way we can pay 600 euro a month additional to what we already pay
14:18:14  <Yexo> hmm, forgot about that
14:18:38  <Yexo> so we either use the ttd one or have another variable for the airport newgrf to store the ttd-compatible state in
14:18:51  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: but payment is optional!
14:19:15  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: haha :) WE TAKE IT! :p
14:19:19  <Pikkaa> well, the states don't all need to be used in the new system... we could just make it so...
14:19:24  <tdev> TrueBrain, 600 euros a month!?
14:19:35  <TrueBrain> a year, sorry
14:19:36  * OwenS complains about mkvmerge consuming all his RAM
14:19:44  <TrueBrain> lol @ OwenS
14:19:55  <Pikkaa> Yexo, let me write something on the wiki, just a second.
14:19:59  <tdev> TrueBrain, we got 2400 euros a year for RoR
14:20:01  <OwenS> Why is it bufferint the whole file in RAM?
14:20:05  <tdev> so that fits easily
14:20:22  <OwenS> I don't WANT my RAM full of MPEG-2... I want it usable
14:20:23  <TrueBrain> and what has <random other project> have to do with us? Sorry, I miss that link?
14:20:38  <tdev> <TrueBrain> tdev: this is an open source community :)
14:20:46  <tdev> the project i speak of is also OS ...
14:20:48  <TrueBrain> so if RoR manages to make 2400 euro a year, so should we?
14:20:52  <tdev> no
14:21:09  <tdev> i just said that its possible to have those servers as a OS project theretically ;)
14:21:18  <TrueBrain> in theory we can have lots of things
14:21:28  <TrueBrain> wikipedia makes milions of dollars a year
14:21:37  <TrueBrain> but that doesn't help us :p
14:21:47  <Rubidium> anyhow, if we get a second server it basically needs to be a OSX one
14:22:00  <OwenS> I must say this is the first time I've had 1GB of swap used...
14:22:04  <orudge> also, if we were to be making millions of dollars a year, and somebody were to then come along and claim the whole project was illegal due to its origins, I'd probably end up in prison as the person who received all the money ;)
14:22:30  <orudge> so, hmm, if you do want to give millions of dollars, make them out to tt-forums and not openttd :p
14:22:35  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I tend to agree with that. Or at least a system we can run OSX on :p
14:22:43  <TrueBrain> orudge: hehe :)
14:22:50  <TrueBrain> orudge: did you read my request in the other channel the other day?
14:23:00  <TrueBrain> about some other project which will not be named here? :p
14:23:13  <orudge> TrueBrain: I'm not sure I did
14:23:16  <orudge> or if I did, I forgot perhaps
14:23:27  <orudge> feel free to re-mention in the other channel :p
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14:24:48  <OwenS> *sigh* only 8 of 28 episodes remultiplexed
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14:29:24  <Pikka> Yexo: http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Newgrf_Airports_Documentation#Aircraft_movement_states
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14:31:22  <Yexo> Pikka: looks like a sane approach
14:33:45  <Pikka> :)
14:33:56  <Pikka> also, what do you think about this change to state 2 @ http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Newgrf_Airports_Documentation#state_machine_callback
14:34:15  <Pikka> does this reasonably replicate the slow turn flag?
14:35:15  <Yexo> not really, the slow-turn flag is also used in the air
14:35:29  <Pikka> oh
14:36:01  <Pikka> I was just using additional nodes in the air for widening turns.  we can include the slow turn flag too, then.
14:36:02  <Yexo> an aircraft will start to run 4 pixels before it reached the node, but if AMED_SLOWTURN is set it'll start to turn 8 pixels before
14:36:12  <Pikka> hmm
14:36:36  <Pikka> does it automatically stop and turn on the ground if it needs to turn more than 45?
14:37:01  <Pikka> in which case, what I just added is unnecessary. :]
14:37:02  <Yexo> checking that now
14:38:21  <Yexo> it looks like the slowturn flag is only used for nodes in the air
14:38:31  <Pikka> I see
14:38:41  <Pikka> hmm
14:39:25  <Yexo> if an aircraft on the ground needs to be turned, it'll turn 45degrees per tick and speed is halved for every turn
14:39:37  <Pikka> :o
14:39:42  <Pikka> okay, I guess that makes sense
14:39:55  <Pikka> forget what I just added then *removes it* :P
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14:45:22  <Rubidium> Pikka: OpenTTD goes beyond the year 65535
14:45:58  <Pikka> and, Rubidium? :P
14:46:07  <Rubidium> 08-09 (2xw) - Years available (start and end year. 0000 and FFFF are forever respectively)
14:46:15  <Rubidium> ^ might give troubles with that
14:46:36  <Yexo> Rubidium: no, FFFF is converted to MAX_YEAR :)
14:46:52  <Pikka> zacly :P
14:47:10  <Rubidium> there goes the 1 million years in the future pack :)
14:47:45  <Pikka> they'll just have to make it the 50,000 years in the future pack
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14:49:23  <Pikka> Yexo: what's the callback number for the statemachine?
14:49:26  <Rubidium> should the spec change the catchment radius calculations? This change seems to make getting the catchment area of a train station joining an airport more cumbersome
14:49:43  <Eddi|zuHause> <tdev> also, seems to work: http://openttd.buildbotfarm.net:10301/waterfall <-- is this really how it's supposed to look? www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Bildschirmphoto14.png
14:49:48  <Yexo> 0x14E <- but that is just the first free number in the openttdcode
14:50:05  <Pikka> rubidium: I don't know how the current catchment radius calculation works
14:50:22  <Pikka> I've no problem with changing it to make it more consistent
14:51:15  <Yexo> Pikka: in that case just remove "high byte is the xy offset of the centre from the top corner of the airport. ", and maybe make it a byte
14:51:16  <Rubidium> Pikka: find most northern tile of station, most southern tile of station, create rectangle based on those points, enlarge the rectangle with <catchement area> in all directions
14:51:54  <Rubidium> hmm, not quite right... I forgot to add the eastern and western tiles too ;)
14:52:38  <Rubidium> but yes, removing the high byte does the trick
14:53:51  <Pikka> okay
14:54:27  <Rubidium> Pikka: any way OpenTTD should chose between the 4 station names?
14:54:46  <Rubidium> or is it 'just' random?
14:55:04  <helb> Eddi|zuHause: probably not, looks fine to me (also in konqueror)
14:55:12  <Pikka> I'd imagined it starts with the first one, and if it's not available goes to the next one, etc
14:55:32  <Pikka> until it runs out of defined names, then it goes to "x airport", etc
14:56:05  <Rubidium> generally you only have 1 or 2 airports per town, right? So 4 names sounds a bit redundant
14:56:31  <Yexo> not really, the airport names need not include the town name
14:57:14  <Yexo> and especially for really small airports you can easily have more airports per town
14:58:09  <Rubidium> Yexo: but the name generation algorithm doesn't work for names without town (it will then create duplicates)
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14:59:18  <Yexo> I see
14:59:19  <Rubidium> and even trickier: how to store it? Cause the airport spec of a station can change
14:59:36  <Yexo> copy the name (store it as string, not stringid)?
14:59:48  <Yexo> that way the strings don't need the town name :p
15:00:00  <Rubidium> then it's a custom name, which implies it doesn't do duplicate checking with the generated names
15:00:01  <SmatZ> it's not language-independent
15:00:29  <Rubidium> as a result the first name is always 'free', thus lots of duplicate names
15:01:06  <Yexo> can it be stored in the same way as for industrie-related station names?
15:01:45  <Rubidium> yes-ish, but that implies either adding 2 variables or 1 and dropping 3 of the 4 custom names
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15:13:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17382 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Cleanup: don't set load_unload_time_rem when an aircraft turns in the air as it's not used
15:15:51  <Yexo> Pikka: what's the difference between prop 12 and 13?
15:17:08  <Xaroth> happy birthday intarwebs :o
15:17:21  <TrueBrain> who?
15:17:48  <Xaroth> http://www.nu.nl/internet/2073836/internet-is-weer-eens-jarig.html ... for the dutchies
15:18:16  <Eddi|zuHause> helb: it looks fine in firefox and konqueror/KDE3, but not in konqueror/KDE4
15:19:03  <Pikka> Yexo: 12 is the name ("Farm Airstrip"), 13 is a short description (3 or 4 lines in the build window, maybe runway length, whatever the creator wants to put).  Similar to the extra information for vehicles.
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15:19:16  <helb> Eddi|zuHause: i have konqueror 4 (from svn) and it looks fine both in khtml and webkit
15:19:22  <Yexo> ok :)
15:19:42  <Eddi|zuHause> well, obviously it screws up chosing the right font here
15:19:48  <Yexo> Pikka: and I have a new property: a tile array with all depot tiles
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15:23:16  <Pikkaa> yexo: oh yes?  sorry, disconnected
15:23:28  <TrueBrain> again? :p
15:23:38  <Pikkaa> yep, wireless is playing up tonight
15:24:33  <Yexo> Pikkaa: in your spec there is no way for openttd to figure out what tiles are depot tiles
15:24:49  <Pikkaa> yes there is :P
15:25:01  <Yexo> englighten me :)
15:25:16  <Pikkaa> an action 0 property for the tiles
15:25:48  <Pikkaa> hmm
15:26:12  <Pikkaa> the statemachine callback needs another return value...
15:26:31  <Pikkaa> "enter hangar number x"
15:26:47  <Pikkaa> and the hangar needs to know what node to put exiting aircraft at...
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15:27:30  <Pikka> *thinks*
15:28:17  <Pikka> hmm
15:29:03  <Pikka> if we make the low nibble of the node flag byte the hangar exit number, it means that airports will be limited to 15 hangars...
15:30:17  <Belugas> yeah.. that's very a small number of hangars ^_^
15:30:58  <Pikka> still, a limit is a limit :P
15:31:16  <Belugas> oh..that, i cannot agree more
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15:31:22  <Yexo> but how do you define the hangar number?
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15:31:41  <Pikka> with an action 0 of the tile
15:32:38  <Pikka> a hangar can be more than one tile, of course... if you click on any tile with a given value, it opens that hangar's window
15:32:47  <Yexo> so a tile has a property "hanager number", 0 for is no hangar?
15:32:51  <Pikka> yep
15:33:22  <Yexo> ok (can you add that to the Action 0 Airport Tiles section?)
15:33:28  <Pikka> yep
15:33:40  <Pikka> just a second
15:35:24  <Pikka> there, property 0x13
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15:37:18  <Pikka> also, updated the node array format, and added 84 0x return for the callback (enter the hangar specified in the low byte)
15:39:23  <Pikka> I'm just about finished updating my test grf.. just gotta write the statemachine. ^^;
15:41:14  <Yexo> hehe, _just_ ahve to write the staemachine :)
15:41:50  <Pikka> it's only got 16 nodes, one runway, one bay and one hangar, it won't be too hard. ;)
15:42:40  <Pikka> hmm
15:42:50  <SmatZ> does it mean removing a GRF can cause deadlocked aircraft?
15:43:10  <SmatZ> maybe aircraft on invalid airport should be removed then (as well as the airport)
15:43:15  <Yexo> SmatZ: that's something I don't even want to think about currently
15:43:22  <SmatZ> hehe :)
15:43:36  <Yexo> but it's easy to move all aircraft to the air when a newgrf is removed, and disallow use of the airport thereafter
15:44:12  <SmatZ> true
15:45:33  <Belugas> OR
15:45:35  <Belugas> hem..
15:45:36  <Belugas> no
15:45:44  * Belugas goes back in hybernation
15:45:45  <Pikka> yexo: should the action 3 for the airport eventually point to a menu graphic?  just trying to work out what the format of the action 2 should be
15:46:12  <Pikka> since a menu graphic has no load states, ground tiles, etc ^^;
15:46:14  <Yexo> Pikka: that seems like a good idea,but not implemented for now
15:46:21  <Pikka> okay, I'll leave it out for now
15:46:45  <Pikka> hmm
15:46:52  <Pikka> it does need somewhere for the callback to fail to though
15:48:49  <Pikka> wow
15:48:58  <Pikka> I really made a mess of the example code on the wiki
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15:53:12  <Yexo> Pikka: tile subname string, will that be prop 14?\
15:53:25  <Doorslammer> Another brilliantly intelligent question coming up (groan)
15:53:32  <Pikka> I don't see why not, Yexo
15:53:37  <Doorslammer> Where are the town names stored?
15:54:11  <Belugas> in the savegame
15:54:36  <Pikka> btw, my test grf uses var 43 from http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2IndustryTiles , if that's not implemented yet.
15:54:59  <Doorslammer> Oh, I mean when they are generated I mean
15:55:01  <Yexo> nearly no varaction 2 variables are implemented
15:55:06  <Doorslammer> What are they generated from?
15:55:08  <Yexo> but I'll make sure to implement that one soon
15:55:20  <Yexo> from town name parts
15:57:16  <Belugas> town name parts can be specified from a grf or from internal data tables
15:57:43  <Doorslammer> Fair enough
15:59:05  <Belugas> if you're interested in the data tables, that is in the sources of OpenTTD
16:01:05  <Yexo> Pikka: implement var 43
16:01:16  <Yexo> I have to go now
16:01:32  <Pikka> okay :) thanks
16:01:44  <Pikka> I'll soldier on, see if I can remember how to do this :P
16:02:15  <Belugas> Doorslammer : table\namegen.h
16:04:10  <Belugas> or in an easier way... http://svn.openttd.org/trunk/src/table/namegen.h
16:04:44  <Doorslammer> Ah, gotcha
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16:20:02  <Dreamxtreme> dammit
16:20:29  <Dreamxtreme> ive just spent a hour building a railway which isn't electrified
16:20:43  <Dreamxtreme> wish you convert the whole track #
16:20:58  <planetmaker> you know 'c' ?
16:21:04  <planetmaker> or the convert button?
16:21:12  <planetmaker> and its drag functionality?
16:21:13  <Dreamxtreme> o
16:21:21  <Dreamxtreme> lol
16:21:25  <Dreamxtreme> n00b alert
16:21:32  <planetmaker> hahahaha :-D
16:21:45  <Belugas> a kick!!! a kick!!! he said the forbidden word!!!!
16:21:55  <Belugas> mmh... too bad... in context :P
16:22:03  * Belugas goes back in hybernation
16:22:07  <Dreamxtreme> o yea
16:22:08  <Dreamxtreme> oops
16:22:23  * planetmaker gives Belugas a thick mantle so he doesn't freeze too much :-P
16:22:51  * planetmaker also steals a y and gives an i
16:23:07  <TrueBrain> Belugas: context or not, he promised he wouldn't say it!
16:24:10  <Dreamxtreme> o come on
16:24:16  <Dreamxtreme> 1st one of the day
16:24:24  <Dreamxtreme> anyway
16:24:32  <Dreamxtreme> im going to convert my railway
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16:24:56  <Belugas> thanks, planetmaker, but wth that layer of fat around, no need to worry ;)
16:25:09  <planetmaker> haha :-)
16:25:19  * Belugas gives a "h" and a "'" to Dreamxtreme
16:25:27  <planetmaker> you're related to the Canadian grizzlies? :-P
16:25:57  <Belugas> mmh... TrueBrain, you think we could ask glx to add a new rule on his bot?  hehe
16:26:22  <Belugas> planetmaker: you know how belugas can endure the arctic temps of he water?
16:26:48  <planetmaker> hehe :-) Fair enough
16:27:07  <Belugas> plus.. well... i'm somewhat related to the beast.  i'm tall, pale skin (well.. not now... we had a nice summer) and a belly that is not so flat
16:27:09  <Belugas> anymore
16:27:10  <Belugas> booooo
16:27:43  * planetmaker hugs Belugas
16:28:59  <Dreamxtreme> Belugas	gives a "h" and a "'" to Dreamxtreme ????
16:29:03  <Dreamxtreme> i dont get it
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16:30:57  <Belugas> [12:24] <Dreamxtreme> o come on
16:30:58  <Belugas> and
16:31:04  <Pikka> he needs an e more than anything else :)
16:31:04  <Belugas> [12:24] <Dreamxtreme> im going to convert my railway
16:31:21  <planetmaker> which tells me that you're 6h behind my time, Belugas ;-)
16:31:59  <Belugas> ho.. shit... you've discovered my secret!
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16:33:42  <Dreamxtreme> omg
16:33:47  <Dreamxtreme> i almost wrote it
16:33:52  <Dreamxtreme> but stoped myself
16:34:10  <fjb> Faster, faster, a Belugas is only 6 hours behind us!
16:34:42  <Belugas> SNAP SNAP SNAP!!
16:34:53  <Dreamxtreme> you mean 5 hours
16:35:25  <Belugas> depends, the wworld is a big place...
16:35:37  <Belugas> my wife always complain that i'm late...
16:35:39  * Dreamxtreme takes a w from Belugas
16:35:39  <Belugas> so...
16:35:46  <Belugas> www.world
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16:38:40  <Katt> Hello channel. I have a pretty weird problem with OTTD 0.7.2 in debian which I can't really figure out.
16:38:58  <Belugas> miaoow
16:39:01  <Belugas> hem...
16:39:03  <Belugas> welcome
16:39:05  <Katt> Meow.
16:39:06  <Katt> Thanks.
16:39:20  <Belugas> my cat speaks french :P
16:39:22  <Katt> Anyway, the thing is, I can't start ottd from anywhere BUT the terminal.
16:39:39  <planetmaker> is that a problem? ;-)
16:39:54  <Katt> Well, not really, but I do like my shortcuts in my menu. :P
16:39:56  <planetmaker> you might want to setup the working dir then correctly.
16:40:25  <Katt> I thought that might've been the problem, but I can start openttd regardless of the working directory
16:40:38  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.161.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:40:45  <Katt> And yes, the binary is in /usr/games/openttd
16:41:01  <Belugas> you compiled it yourself or was it a download?
16:41:14  <Katt> Download directly from the official site
16:41:36  <Katt> I'm running testing, and the latest in the repo was 0.7.1
16:42:09  <Belugas> damned... my idea fails
16:42:14  <Katt> Only "strange" thing I had to do was to get libicu38 from stable
16:42:23  <Katt> As it's not in testing or sid
16:42:36  <planetmaker> he...
16:42:42  <Katt> There's newer packages, but the deb asks for libicu38
16:43:01  <planetmaker> yes, that's right afaik.
16:43:19  <planetmaker> versions can make a difference and with openttd, afaik, they do ;-)
16:43:22  <Katt> But as far as I know, that would not conjure my 'problem'.
16:43:36  <planetmaker> agreed.
16:44:20  <Katt> Btw, another question while I'm at it, doesn't the ECS-vectors work with 0.7.2?
16:44:24  <Katt> Or is it just me?
16:44:32  <planetmaker> it does. But maybe not old ones
16:46:18  <Katt> Okey. Hmm. Problem kinda fixed.
16:46:32  <Katt> I logged in/out and now it works.
16:48:13  <Katt> Anyway, where's the newest versions of the ECS-vectors? The ones you can download from ingame did not seem to work for me right now.
16:48:54  <glx_> they are enbaled too ?
16:48:58  <glx_> *enabled
16:49:29  <Katt> Yes
16:49:36  <Katt> I guess they are. Other newgrfs work.
16:49:42  <planetmaker> Katt, iname you should only be able to download those which work
16:49:54  <planetmaker> if not, the author marked them wrongly ;-)
16:50:18  <Katt> The basic vector is version Beta 5 from 28. of June 2009
16:50:32  <Katt> The one from the official download ingame
16:50:57  <fjb> What is wrong with this: svn co -r 17268 svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk OpenTTD-r17268
16:51:15  <fjb> I'm only gitting a driectory called media.
16:51:19  <fjb> getting
16:52:30  <planetmaker> looks correct to me, jfb
16:53:15  <planetmaker> and also works for me
16:54:07  <fjb> I just tried it with 3 diffrent svn clients.
16:54:45  <fjb> I alsways get:
16:54:48  <fjb> A    OpenTTD-r17268cadist/media/openttd.32.png
16:54:58  <fjb> And some more of that kind.
16:55:49  <Katt> I got everything, it seems.
16:56:10  <Katt> OH
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16:56:16  <glx_> fjb: I just typed exactly the same and it works
16:56:37  <glx_> Katt: did you start a new game with them enabled ?
16:56:38  <fjb> That is really strange.
16:57:02  <Katt> glx_: Yes, but I think I just made a little mistake. Stupid me.
16:57:07  <Katt> Only basic vector, no town-vector
16:57:20  <planetmaker> :-D
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16:58:39  <Katt> Nah, still doesn't work.
16:59:02  <Katt> Or am I doing something wrong? I mean, the industries appear, but I can't transport anything because of missing vagons
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16:59:26  <planetmaker> Katt, that's a problem with your chosen train set.
16:59:33  <planetmaker> you'll need one which supports ECS vectors
16:59:38  <Katt> Aah
16:59:54  <planetmaker> basically all major train sets do. But default trains won't.
16:59:56  <Katt> Should say so in the wiki. Or anywhere for that matter. :P
17:00:11  <planetmaker> Katt, doesn't the ECS do-not-readme tell you?
17:00:11  <Katt> I must be the only one who prefer the default trains.
17:00:33  <planetmaker> oh, they can be nice.
17:00:40  <Rubidium> then use original engines, new cargos or whatever it's called exactly
17:00:47  <planetmaker> there's *somewhere* a newgrf called old wagons, new cargos...
17:00:49  <Katt> planetmaker: Since no wiki or anything else told that you need a custom train-set, and considering that's seem slike a pretty crucial point, it never occured to me. :<
17:01:05  <planetmaker> Katt, the readme of the ECS vectors. Not the wiki ;-)
17:01:23  <Ammler> fjb: else try svn co <url>@rev
17:01:29  <planetmaker> But, when downloading, it's inside the downloaded tar... so... one will not see it by default :-)
17:02:09  <fjb> I'm suspecting a broken subversion installation.
17:02:11  <planetmaker> And, Katt it's a Wiki :-)
17:02:19  <planetmaker> Maybe you care to add this information :-)
17:02:43  <planetmaker> It's difficult to add something which one knows about and doesn't think about anymore as it's taken for granted.
17:02:47  <Katt> I will when it works. :P Using the old wagons, new cargo newgrf now, still no way to haul the new cargo.
17:02:53  <Katt> Ah
17:02:56  <Katt> Refittable
17:03:00  <planetmaker> :-)
17:03:02  <Rubidium> planetmaker: poor people using a file browser that can't handle tars natively
17:03:03  <Katt> Well then, seems like it works
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17:03:22  <planetmaker> Rubidium, I guess default win doesn't?
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17:03:42  <Katt> Nah, windows doesn't. But "every" windowsuser should have winrar.
17:03:56  <Ammler> pm, that is why we include the readme for opengfx twice.
17:03:57  <planetmaker> I said tar. Not rar
17:04:08  <planetmaker> and actually I despise rar.
17:04:13  <planetmaker> Proprietary crap
17:04:40  <Ammler> what's osx?
17:04:48  <planetmaker> I recommend total commander for windows :-)
17:04:56  <planetmaker> Ammler, hu?
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17:05:42  <Ammler> nvm, no idea actually :-)
17:06:03  *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-0-175.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
17:06:05  <glx> <Katt> Nah, windows doesn't. But "every" windowsuser should have winrar. <-- better use 7zip
17:06:08  <glx> it's free
17:06:25  <Katt> Yes, but does 7zip support shellextensions?
17:06:41  <glx> like right click menu ?
17:06:45  <Katt> Yes
17:06:51  <Ammler> yes, it does.
17:06:52  <glx> of course :)
17:06:53  <Katt> Ah.
17:07:05  <Katt> Long time since I used 7zip
17:07:13  <planetmaker> Ammler, OSX unpacks the rar with a double click
17:07:21  <planetmaker> transparent usage would be nicer.
17:07:55  <Ammler> planetmaker: whoot, you unpack archives, which are made with proprietary crap?
17:07:57  <Ammler> ;-)
17:08:04  <Katt> I should switch to 7zip then.
17:08:08  <Katt> On my winbox
17:08:13  <planetmaker> Ammler, uh? tar != proprietary, eh?
17:08:32  <planetmaker> oh. s/rar/tar/
17:08:35  <Ammler> hehe
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17:10:03  <planetmaker> Katt, you could use 7zip on any OS basically. I possess no OS where it doesn't work.
17:10:23  <planetmaker> or wouldn't.
17:10:23  <Prof_Frink> 7zip's now part of our standard windows install at work
17:10:26  <Rubidium> oh... I do :)
17:10:37  <planetmaker> Rubidium, really? Which one?
17:10:42  <Katt> Can't say I've been using 7z soo much. Yet I know it's better than rar.
17:10:43  * Rubidium points at whatever OS is running on his phone
17:10:48  <planetmaker> :-)
17:11:01  <Katt> Well, might stop raring files and using 7zip. Mostely those who unrar got winrar which handles 7zip
17:11:26  <planetmaker> rar is annoying. It's nowhere available as default.
17:11:55  <planetmaker> using 7z's own (but better compressing) format isn't unzip-able by default either. But it handles zip, too.
17:12:00  <planetmaker> And then anyone can use it.
17:12:36  *** Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has quit []
17:17:42  <Katt> Hmm. Another question. What does exactly the newgrf for bigger depots do?
17:19:21  <Belugas> it's an attemps to make depots look more EARISLCIT by allowing them to be coupled
17:19:55  <Belugas> stupidity of lare world freaks, if you ask me
17:20:14  <Xaroth> EARISLCIT o_O
17:20:41  <Katt> Ah
17:20:43  <Katt> See it now
17:20:57  *** [wito] [~wito@25.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd
17:22:34  <DaleStan> Well, I got "Ear is", but what is "lcit"? :p
17:22:57  <Belugas> hehehe
17:23:35  <Rubidium> DaleStan: it's a sea port in Thailand
17:23:39  * Belugas enjoys it :D
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17:24:16  <Belugas> hint: just one word
17:24:21  <Belugas> one that I hate
17:24:24  <Belugas> when applied to the game
17:24:32  <Rubidium> lesdyxia?
17:24:34  <Belugas> well.. that is not a hint anymore :S
17:24:40  <Belugas> it's a spoiler!
17:24:50  <Belugas> Rubidium, i'm not alain :D
17:25:18  <Pikka> if it's not totally unrealistic, Belugas doesn't like it! \o/
17:25:32  <Belugas> YEAH!
17:25:38  <Belugas> well... not entirely... but...
17:27:34  *** williham [~wito@25.244.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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17:36:42  <Belugas> but i do agree i like games where i'm far off from realism, like Myst, Exile, Return to Mysterious Island and such
17:37:23  <Katt> Myst was soo good back in the old days.
17:37:29  <Belugas> also, I have a profound taste for sci-fi, vampires, spirits and such books/movies/series
17:37:36  <Belugas> let me evade from real workld!
17:38:19  <Prof_Frink> I went to the real world once. It's shit.
17:38:49  <Belugas> dans mes bras!
17:40:48  <Belugas> Express2a
17:40:54  <Belugas> ooops
17:43:07  <Dreamxtreme> hey frink
17:43:22  <Prof_Frink> Uh oh
17:43:24  <Dreamxtreme> did you see Wimbourne on the new map update
17:43:35  <z-MaTRiX> reloaded
17:43:40  <Prof_Frink> Where's Wimbourne?
17:44:17  <Dreamxtreme> Wimbourne Minster
17:44:20  <fjb> Is FIRS already playable?
17:44:29  <Dreamxtreme> FIRS ?
17:45:21  <Prof_Frink> Dreamxtreme: no u.
17:45:39  <Dreamxtreme> lol yep well i made it
17:45:42  *** oskari89 [oskari89@212-149-207-211.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
17:45:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17383 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
17:45:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by Roujin
17:45:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 2 changes by prof
17:45:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 2 changes by lorenzodv
17:45:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 46 changes by dzhins
17:45:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: serbian - 10 changes by etran
17:46:14  <Prof_Frink> Dreamxtreme: It's Wimborne, not Wimbourne.
17:46:46  <Dreamxtreme> uh o
17:46:49  <Dreamxtreme> let me check
17:48:31  <Dreamxtreme> ah good
17:48:37  <Dreamxtreme> spelled it right
17:50:05  *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn13-0-0-cust18.midd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
17:50:32  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host214-232-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
17:50:36  <Wolf01> hello :D
17:51:17  *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@g227081098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
17:52:39  <TrueBrain> sigh, reddog just digged a 1 year old topic ......
17:52:50  <Dreamxtreme> uh
17:52:52  <Dreamxtreme> o
17:53:50  <fjb> Digg him.
17:54:31  <Wolf01> bury him
17:54:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17384 /trunk/src/ (order_cmd.cpp order_gui.cpp):
17:54:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2859]: remove all order window state changes out of the drawing routine
17:54:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: and call them immediately when changes happen instead of on the next OnPaint.
17:54:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: This prevents pressing buttons when they should've been already disabled.
17:55:33  *** oskari89 [oskari89@212-149-207-211.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Utm Aœ - Aja 35]
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17:58:33  <Belugas> hey... a Wolf01!
17:58:33  *** Zahl [~Zahl@f051152006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:58:33  *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
17:58:38  <Belugas> hello Wolf01
17:58:50  <Wolf01> hello Belugas :D
18:00:28  <TrueBrain> and he sent me a PM ratting out other users .. a real team player, I see :(
18:00:29  *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
18:02:45  <cipi97> Hello
18:03:01  <Alberth> hello
18:03:19  <cipi97> How to instal NewGraphics for openttd?
18:03:36  <Alberth> NewGraphics?
18:04:18  <cipi97> Yas
18:04:20  <cipi97> Yes
18:04:32  <Belugas> it's a new feature?
18:04:34  <cipi97> http://wiki.openttd.org/GUI_(New_Graphics)
18:04:43  <Alberth> You mean NewGRF perhaps?
18:04:57  <cipi97> No
18:05:12  <Alberth> OpenGFX? OpenSFX ?
18:05:16  <cipi97> Lok at this an you will understand : http://wiki.openttd.org/GUI_(New_Graphics)
18:05:32  <cipi97> And is about OPEN GFX
18:05:59  <TrueBrain> there are wiki pages created by users which whould want a feature, but which isn't there. That happens.
18:05:59  <cipi97> Sorry for my enghlish, but i am romanian
18:06:45  <Belugas> cipi97, look around : http://wiki.openttd.org/Graphics_Development
18:06:55  <cipi97> TrueBrain : You don't understand
18:07:16  <Alberth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=35794&hilit=extra+zoom+level is about additional zoom levels, where the wiki page seems to be part of
18:07:44  <Xaroth> cipi97: TrueBrain knows more than you think ;)
18:08:05  <cipi97> But i'm not reffer at that thing
18:08:09  <TrueBrain> knowing doesn't mean understanding though :p But I guess in this case it is cipi97 which doesn't understand :) But he has enough to read for now :p
18:08:22  <z-MaTRiX> hi;>
18:08:31  <TrueBrain> LOL! (a valid lol Dreamxtreme). You give us a link, but you do not refer to that thing .. COOL!
18:09:19  *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:09:23  <cipi97> Can anybody help me
18:09:28  <cipi97> ?
18:10:13  <TrueBrain> cipi97: 2 people gave you links to read, 1 other tried to help you .. I think we ran out of ideas to help you
18:10:34  <Alberth> cipi97: afaik extra zoom levels (where your wiki page is part of) is not part of 'official' OpenTTD. It is made by a group of users. How and what of this extension is most likely in the link I gave you.
18:10:52  <cipi97> Alberth i am do not reffer at zoom
18:11:00  <Belugas> at what then?
18:11:16  <Belugas> please, be VERY precise
18:11:16  <cipi97> And this is avaiable for Belugas, too
18:11:37  <Alberth> cipi97: You read the first line at the wiki? "Back to the 32bpp_graphics_development_tracker_(extra_zoom)'"
18:11:38  <cipi97> I want to install new graphic pack for openTTD
18:12:05  <Belugas> graphics pack are named (new)grfs
18:12:09  <cipi97> Alberth i am do not reffer at zoom, do you understand?
18:12:13  <Belugas> there are tons of them out there
18:12:26  <Belugas> if you have seen one that you like, it's easy to do
18:12:27  <Katt> cipi97: Then download the specific graphic pack (newgrf) and put the file in your data-folder or .openttd/data/ if you use linux.
18:12:34  <cipi97> I am reffer at this: http://wiki.openttd.org/GUI_(New_Graphics)
18:12:43  <Alberth> cipi97: maybe not, but the graphics you refer to, are part of it, whether you like it or not.
18:12:57  <Katt> Then when you start up the game, press newGRF-settings, press add and you will see the file. Add it, then start the game.
18:13:08  <cipi97> And i am reffer at OPEN GFX
18:13:38  <TrueBrain> dejavu .. yesterday all over again :p
18:13:39  <cipi97> I downloaded form online resources
18:13:54  <Belugas> so if you have them, it's time to load them
18:13:59  <Katt> cipi97: It's still a newgrf
18:14:02  <Katt> Add it to the folder
18:14:02  <cipi97> Graphic Base | Open GFX
18:14:11  <Katt> But you activate it in game options
18:14:21  <Katt> Game options -> base graphics set
18:14:27  <TrueBrain> cipi97: not all wiki pages show you something you can do. It happens.
18:15:14  <Belugas> http://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_FAQ
18:15:25  <Katt> I think I understand what he wants
18:15:32  <Katt> There's this own grf galled NewGraphics
18:15:36  <Belugas> illuminate us, please
18:15:45  <Katt> Which is open-licenced alternatives to the original ttd-graphics
18:16:04  <Belugas> isn't that OpenGFX?
18:16:09  <Katt> Yes
18:16:19  <cipi97> Thanks very mach Katt :D
18:16:23  <cipi97> Rezolved
18:16:35  <Katt> Great
18:16:53  <Katt> Tried them out once myself, but they don't have the same retro-feel like the classical ttd-graphics does.
18:17:23  <Belugas> toum te doum
18:17:23  <TrueBrain> omg ....
18:17:25  <TrueBrain> lol
18:17:27  <TrueBrain> Katt: I am glad you are here :p
18:18:35  <cipi97> And one question: How to play the music
18:18:37  <cipi97> ?
18:18:54  <cipi97> I serched on wiki but i didn't find
18:19:07  <Katt> cipi97: Are you on windows or linux?
18:19:09  <Belugas> do you have the files?
18:19:24  <Katt> You have to have the original gamemusic, and if you're on linux, you need timidity and freepats
18:20:52  <Katt> And I'm off to dinner
18:22:22  <Belugas> NOOOO!!!! WE strill need you!!!!
18:22:29  <Belugas> -r
18:23:15  <cipi97> I have the original music
18:23:27  <cipi97> And I have too Windows XP
18:24:06  <cipi97> Belugas: What files do you kind?
18:27:56  <frosch123> ccfreak2k: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/readme.txt#L187
18:28:18  <frosch123> cipi97 actually
18:28:46  <Eddi|zuHause> cipi97: a) in the jukebox, press "play", b) the original music files must be from the windows version of TTD, the dos version files can't be deciphered, and they must be in the correct folder
18:30:03  <cipi97> I press play, but nothing is hpens
18:30:06  <cipi97> *hapens
18:30:13  <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of "nothing"?
18:31:28  <cipi97> It isn't playing the music
18:32:01  <Belugas> it stays withouth moving? it scrolls the list of available songs?
18:32:10  <Belugas> or
18:32:15  <Belugas> there is no sounds?
18:32:21  <Belugas> do you have game sounds?
18:32:50  <cipi97> Yes
18:32:55  <cipi97> I have sound
18:33:08  <Dreamxtreme> [19:08]	<TrueBrain>	LOL! (a valid lol Dreamxtreme). You give us a link, but you do not refer to that thing .. COOL! hmm
18:33:12  <Dreamxtreme> ok
18:33:24  <Xaroth> wait, Dreamxtreme is from the lolpolice?
18:33:39  <Dreamxtreme> im not the lolpolice
18:33:53  <Eddi|zuHause> no, he is going cold turkey
18:34:10  <cipi97> Can you answer at my question?
18:34:13  <Dreamxtreme> but i didnt think we could even do valid 1's
18:34:39  <Prof_Frink> Plolice?
18:35:02  <Dreamxtreme> o dear
18:35:34  <Eddi|zuHause> cool... my music actually works... i have not tried in years
18:35:47  <cipi97> O.
18:36:01  <cipi97> I make a big mistake
18:36:22  <Xaroth> you had the volume slider down to 0?
18:36:24  <cipi97> I haven't the game music files
18:36:25  <Eddi|zuHause> cipi97: does it skip through the titles?
18:36:32  <cipi97> :(
18:36:43  <Katt> They're easy to get
18:36:53  <cipi97> Yes?
18:36:58  <cipi97> From where?
18:37:12  <Katt> Ops, is it ok if I link to them?
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18:37:21  <Katt> Don't know what your stand on such things are
18:37:28  <Katt> Considering that ttd is considered abandonware
18:37:35  <Xaroth> there's no such thing as abandonware
18:37:50  <Xaroth> abandonware is a myth.
18:37:57  <cipi97> Can you give me the gm?
18:37:58  <Prof_Frink> Katt: What, all 3407 of them?
18:38:09  <Rubidium> Katt: so if I leave a painting hanging for 15 years it's okay to take it?
18:38:30  <Katt> Hey, I was just asking. =)
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18:39:08  *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces]
18:39:09  * Alberth wonders about buildings that owner leave standing for 20+ years :p
18:39:15  <Rubidium> abandonware is just a name people slap on stuff to download it without hurting their conscience
18:39:24  <Katt> Rubidium: And yay for that.
18:39:37  <Katt> Or else it would be a torrent of pain to aquire the original ttd-files.
18:40:06  <tokai|mdlx> what has that to do with http vs. bittorrent?
18:40:22  <Xaroth> tbqfh, getting the original TTD files is piss easy if you know where to look
18:40:57  <Katt> Or any other classic games publishers don't care much about anymore.
18:41:39  <Katt> Hence the term abandonware. Stuff they put up on the net untill the intellectual owners complain about it.
18:41:53  <Katt> It's one of the many grayzones of the internet
18:41:54  <Xaroth> not really
18:42:18  <Xaroth> as Rubidium said, people call it abandonware to soothe their conscience
18:42:22  <Katt> Xaroth: The abandon-site I prefer to use respect when property-owners ask them to remove the files.
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18:42:47  <Xaroth> they shouldn't be posted to begin with :P
18:42:57  <Xaroth> it's like shooting people until somebody tells you to stop
18:43:24  <Katt> Xaroth: I think they should be posted. It promotes good games that would be forgotten otherwise.
18:43:45  <Katt> Important entries in the history of game evolution.
18:44:24  <Xaroth> now -you- are trying to soothe your conscience :P
18:44:30  <Katt> Not at all. :P
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18:44:45  <Katt> Compared to the other stuff I do, abandonware is among the nicest.
18:45:28  * cipi97 has 25,000,000 pounds in 2031 in openTTD.
18:45:46  <OwenS> Hmm... A random question.... does OpenTTD work on Solaris? :p
18:45:55  <cipi97> Yes
18:45:55  <Katt> It's open source.
18:45:55  * OwenS checks for prebuilt binaries
18:45:58  <cipi97> It works
18:46:03  <Xaroth> cipi97: 25 million pounds?
18:46:10  <OwenS> Katt: Open source doesn't always means works :p
18:46:13  <Katt> If there's no prebuilt binaries you can build yourself.
18:46:15  <Ammler> cipi97: transfer it, before it got lost.
18:46:16  <cipi97> Xaroth: Yes :0
18:46:25  <Xaroth> cipi97: as yearly income I take it?
18:46:30  <cipi97> Where i must transfer?
18:46:37  <OwenS> Katt: Not always. Ever tried building Deluge for Solaris? ;-)
18:46:46  <Katt> Nope, don't run solaris :p
18:46:53  <Ammler> cipi97: to your bank account, of course.
18:46:56  <cipi97> I has start the game in 1980
18:47:08  <cipi97> Where is my bank account?
18:47:14  <Xaroth> 50 years for 25 million 'total' or 'yearly income' ?
18:47:30  <Ammler> hmm, nvm.
18:47:32  <cipi97> Total
18:47:42  <cipi97> In the year 2031
18:47:47  <Rubidium> OwenS: there's a reasonably good chance it works on Solaris
18:47:47  *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
18:47:52  <cipi97> Where is my bank account?
18:47:53  <Prof_Frink> cipi97: I had an old TTDPatch game. It was slightly confused.
18:48:03  <OwenS> Rubidium: I'd guess so since it's SDL based, and SDL works perfectly :p
18:48:05  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
18:48:14  <Alberth> hello Nite_Owl
18:48:20  <Xaroth> cipi97: next goal for you, 25 million a year income before 2000 when starting at 1975.
18:48:21  <Prof_Frink> I was making over £2 billion per month, which caused overflows *everywhere*
18:48:24  <Nite_Owl> Hello Alberth
18:49:21  <OwenS> Rubidium: I only really expect trouble either with the network libraries (Quick fix: Just shove in LDFLAGS) and audio (But if using SDL audio thats fine)
18:49:23  <cipi97> Ammler: Where is my bank acount?
18:49:27  *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
18:49:36  <Xaroth> cipi97: Ammler was joking..
18:49:43  <Prof_Frink> cipi97: Iceland.
18:49:49  <Xaroth> Ice-save!?!?
18:49:56  <Dreamxtreme> o man
18:50:06  <Dreamxtreme> dont temped me
18:50:16  <Dreamxtreme> aaaaarrrrgh
18:50:17  <Prof_Frink> "Oh cock."
18:50:23  <Dreamxtreme> its driving my nuts
18:50:33  <Rubidium> that's so May
18:55:01  <Rubidium> OwenS: it ought to work more or less out of the box
18:55:24  <OwenS> Rubidium: Agreed =)
18:55:42  <Rubidium> though I don't have solaris to actually test it
18:55:49  * OwenS intends to at some point play an OpenTTDCoop account from his couch
18:56:04  <Rubidium> how ironic it might sound, had trouble installing opensolaris in virtualbox
18:56:11  <OwenS> O_o
18:56:14  <OwenS> I got it installed first time
18:58:28  <Katt> There, edited the wiki.
18:58:53  <OwenS> I must say that forgetting to enable GDM before shutting down the machine and connecting it to the TV (Which can't display 640x400 text mode for some reason) was fun
18:59:17  <OwenS> Command prompt blind FTW :P
19:01:14  <TrueBrain> what was it .. rm -rf? :p
19:01:32  <OwenS> "pfexec svcadm enable gdm"
19:01:41  <TrueBrain> no, it was rm -rf, you might want to try tha tnow :p
19:01:55  <TrueBrain> that enables a VERY cool feature!
19:01:58  <TrueBrain> you would not believe it!
19:01:58  <Katt> remove recursive force
19:02:03  <TrueBrain> Katt: really?
19:02:03  *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:02:05  <TrueBrain> hmm ..
19:02:06  <fjb> Oh, many industries with FIRS.
19:02:12  *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd
19:02:50  <Eddi|zuHause> * cipi97 has 25,000,000 pounds in 2031 in openTTD. <- i don't think i have ever been to year 2031 in openttd
19:03:00  <OwenS> TrueBrain: You forgot to specify a file :[
19:03:02  <OwenS> :p
19:03:02  <TrueBrain> I can't remember I was ever in openttd :p
19:03:12  <Katt> rm -rf <file/folder>
19:03:15  <TrueBrain> OwenS: that was not without mistake; I dislike saying things people try, and start blaming me
19:03:16  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: doesn't mean it did not happen :p
19:03:23  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: absolutely true
19:03:25  <Katt> Tip: NEVER do # rm -rf /
19:03:36  <TrueBrain> thank you for stating the obvious :p
19:03:41  <OwenS> Katt: On Solaris it's completely harmless :p
19:03:59  <Katt> Oh? How's the system-tree in solaris?
19:04:01  <OwenS> Someone at Sun noticed that shell scripts have an annoying habit of doing that by mistake :p
19:04:15  <Katt> Haha
19:04:24  <OwenS> So rm -rf / will say something like "You probably don't want to do that"
19:04:45  <Katt> I tutored a guy in linux security once and sent him a "miracle"-script with that command and told him to run the script in root
19:04:48  <TrueBrain> but what if you do? :p
19:04:49  <Katt> And he did it
19:04:56  <Katt> Lesson: Don't run random scripts from strangers
19:05:21  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Theres always dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/dsk/c0d0s0 (Assuming your / is c0d0s0)
19:05:31  <TrueBrain> OwenS: that does a TINY bit more :)
19:05:36  <TrueBrain> it also wipes your filesystem
19:05:47  <TrueBrain> (even your bootsector)
19:05:51  <OwenS> TrueBrain: OK, zpool del rootPool && zpool create rootPool c0d0s0 :P
19:05:52  <TrueBrain> so they are not the same
19:05:53  <Katt> Great fun!
19:06:06  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Actually, c0d0s0 doesn't have a boot sector. c0d0 does
19:06:18  <TrueBrain> are you sure? :p
19:06:19  <OwenS> (Solaris has... funky... partitioning)
19:06:23  <TrueBrain> try writing in the first 1024 bytes
19:06:39  <OwenS> TrueBrain: No. I value my ZFS pool :p
19:07:08  <TrueBrain> your problem
19:07:12  <TrueBrain> let me send you a script ... :p
19:07:17  <SmatZ> Permission denied
19:07:25  <SmatZ> now what :-p
19:07:37  <TrueBrain> give me a big hug
19:07:56  * SmatZ hugs TrueBrain
19:08:03  <TrueBrain> :)
19:08:32  <TrueBrain> I am getting insane of all those calls and jumps and rets .... 1% of the cases fuck it up for the other 99% :(
19:10:09  <TrueBrain> lets see if I can get vmware to work on my machine today ..
19:10:31  <TrueBrain> virtualbox has about 70 MiB of RAM overhead per VM :(
19:13:12  <Eddi|zuHause> that's only going to be a problem once you're approaching 20 simultaneous VMs
19:13:26  <TrueBrain> well, I want to start a few 96 MiB VMs
19:13:39  <TrueBrain> which is not really efficient ...
19:13:57  <TrueBrain> gcc failed to compile OpenTTD with only 64 MiB RAM :p
19:14:33  <OwenS> lol
19:15:07  <TrueBrain> (of course I disabled swap)
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19:15:55  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i have good news and bad news
19:16:04  <Eddi|zuHause> the good news is, i completed a full round of tracks
19:16:28  <Eddi|zuHause> the bad news is, the tracks are so bad, the test engine doesn't get to finish a full round
19:17:03  <frosch123> does not sound like ttd
19:17:26  <Eddi|zuHause> it hasn't sounded like ttd in weeks...
19:17:33  <Eddi|zuHause> NOW you're noticing?
19:17:38  <OwenS> lool
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19:18:17  *** Nite_Owl_ is now known as Nite_Owl
19:18:25  <frosch123> you shall not have other games next to ttd
19:18:40  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: no, now he is paying attention :p :p :p
19:19:09  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not a game.
19:19:28  <Eddi|zuHause> it's an actual real model train
19:19:35  <SmatZ> broken
19:19:40  <TrueBrain> vmware still doesn't work on recent kernels
19:19:41  <TrueBrain> bah
19:19:45  <SmatZ> :(
19:21:28  <TrueBrain> http://bugs.gentoo.org/attachment.cgi?id=199335 <- just reading the patch gives me the creeps ...
19:21:57  <TrueBrain> it removes things .. which really can't be good thing to remove
19:22:41  <Xaroth> oh boy :P
19:27:33  <Katt> Oh my
19:27:36  <Katt> Why is mpd so retarded
19:27:58  <Katt> By default it tags to the first sound-channel in alsa
19:28:23  <_ln> linux doesn't support sounds yet.
19:30:27  <Katt> Then it must be sorcery coming out of those two wizard-boxes on each side of my photoredirected magical window.
19:30:55  <TrueBrain> +12 for Katt
19:31:58  <Katt> For somewhat reason, a couple of tiny tiny Imogen Heaps and two entire orchestra of futuristic music is contained in these two magical boxes.
19:33:33  <TrueBrain> ah, unmasking all vmware software does make it compile :)
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19:44:54  <TrueBrain> bah, vmware-player is just not good enough
19:45:39  <SmatZ> bochs? xen? virtualbox?
19:45:51  <TrueBrain> I meant more: I need vmware-workstation :p
19:46:05  <TrueBrain> and bochs is silly, xen requires a lot more, and virtualbox can't do OSX :p
19:46:19  <Chruker> When logging in to the bugs site I get: "As of 22/09/09 OpenTTD..." has or hasnt that happened?
19:46:35  <TrueBrain> typo I guess
19:48:02  <Chruker> so 22. august ?
19:48:20  <TrueBrain> you can safely assume it was in the past, yes
19:48:20  <_ln> september 9 1922?
19:49:40  <SmatZ> ISO format ftw
19:49:54  <Chruker> This page is not yet done, but will be in the very near feature.
19:50:01  <Chruker> ^ slacker
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19:57:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17385 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Removed some unneeded parentheses.
19:58:16  <glx> TrueBrain: I use vmware-server :)
20:00:08  <_ln> vmware server 2.x sucks, 1.x is great.
20:00:27  <TrueBrain> what is all that noise the whole day ... starts to be a bit annoying
20:00:36  *** bb10_ [~nn@dhcp-077-248-075-030.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
20:00:39  <glx> true, web console is stupid
20:00:53  <glx> but 2.x hardware is better than 1.x
20:01:25  <TrueBrain> glx: vmware-server it is :p
20:02:03  *** bb10 [~nn@dhcp-077-248-075-030.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:04:08  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17386 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_basestation.cpp: -Fix (r17011): AIBaseStation::IsValidBaseStation() returned false for stations with OWNER_NONE
20:07:46  *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA093.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
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20:14:08  <TrueBrain> 450 mb ... could it be any bigger?
20:14:23  <SmatZ> sure
20:14:35  <frosch123> who volunteers for the mb joke?
20:14:46  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: sigh .... :p
20:18:02  <Wolf01> good night
20:18:06  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host214-232-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
20:18:21  <TrueBrain> glx: can I, euh, borrow your serial for vmware-server? :)
20:18:37  <glx> why? you can get one for free
20:18:47  <TrueBrain> I don't feel like registering :p
20:18:53  <glx> ok :)
20:19:14  <glx> but to download I think you need to register
20:19:22  <TrueBrain> I already have it installed :p
20:19:38  *** Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has joined #openttd
20:20:02  <glx> hmm I didn't write down my linux serial, let me get it
20:20:05  <TrueBrain> oh, I thikn I have an account ..
20:20:33  <TrueBrain> ah, yes, I only have to fill in some stupid questions:
20:20:34  <TrueBrain> Virtualization initiatives? Select all that apply
20:20:38  <TrueBrain> Running multiple operating systems
20:20:40  <TrueBrain> .....
20:20:41  <TrueBrain> COME ON!
20:21:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17387 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Add news-item window description to NewsSubtypeData.
20:21:55  <Chruker> "Virtualization - when paying one license fee isnt enough"
20:21:56  <TrueBrain> k, glx, I have it :) Tnx anyway :)
20:22:07  <glx> you get 2 for 1 ;)
20:22:36  <TrueBrain> I HATE FIREFOX!
20:22:42  <TrueBrain> You have asked Firefox to connect
20:22:44  <TrueBrain> securely to 127.0.0.1:8333, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure.
20:22:47  <TrueBrain> and NO WAY to access it anyway
20:23:13  <Rubidium> well, I wouldn't trust myself either
20:23:17  <glx> use http and 8222
20:23:20  <_ln> yeah, firefox is getting worse all the time.
20:23:32  <TrueBrain> default login .. euh ...
20:23:47  <glx> any user on the system I think
20:23:54  <glx> but it needs to have a password
20:23:56  <_ln> also trying a http connection to a non-standard port is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.
20:24:10  <TrueBrain> glx: nope
20:24:36  <_ln> you need to configure some roles & stuff through the web thing.
20:24:52  <glx> for that he needs to connect first ;)
20:24:57  <Xaroth> TrueBrain: root user :)
20:25:28  <glx> TrueBrain: you accept dcc ?
20:25:36  <glx> I have vmware server manual
20:25:41  <TrueBrain> glx: pdf?
20:25:43  <TrueBrain> no thank you :p
20:25:44  <glx> yes
20:25:52  <TrueBrain> why can't things just be in a simple format :p
20:26:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17388 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Codechange: Paint the background of background widgets before painting its children.
20:26:12  * Chruker wonders how many TTD players watch Thomas The Train Engine
20:26:21  <TrueBrain> like after N questions in the configure, I just hold down the enter key
20:26:41  <SmatZ> [22:14:41] <frosch123> who volunteers for the mb joke? <== hehe :)
20:26:56  <Pikka> Chruker: only the first two series are worth watching
20:27:02  <glx> vmware-config.pl as root
20:27:40  <TrueBrain> I guess I did had to enter a value when asking about adding administrators? It could have told me it used system users ...
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20:28:21  <TrueBrain> "You do not have permissions to login to the server."
20:28:23  <TrueBrain> :'(
20:28:44  <SmatZ> :()
20:28:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17389 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h): -Codechange: Add support for shaded viewports.
20:29:11  <TrueBrain> if you ened a manual to install software, something is wrong with that software
20:29:22  <Xaroth> TrueBrain: you tried logging in as root?
20:29:27  <Xaroth> vmware likes to do that..
20:29:34  <TrueBrain> not here
20:29:36  <TrueBrain> not today :'(
20:29:47  <_ln> you'd be happier with vmware server 1.x
20:29:55  <glx> I loggin as Administrateur on my machine (the only account having a password)
20:31:59  <TrueBrain> [2009-09-02 22:31:50.335 'ha-eventmgr' 139770604538192 info] Event 4 : Failed to login user root@127.0.0.1: No permission
20:32:00  <TrueBrain> WHOHO!
20:32:13  *** Mega [~Mega@188.90.111.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:32:18  <Xaroth> lmao
20:32:24  <Farden> rofl
20:33:53  <Dreamxtreme> pmsl
20:34:49  <z-MaTRiX> asdf
20:35:01  <TrueBrain> I also have 4 letters in mind
20:35:03  <TrueBrain> anyone care to guess?
20:35:15  <TrueBrain> and Eddi|zuHause can't join
20:35:25  <Dreamxtreme> does it involve F and K
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20:36:25  <TrueBrain> RETARTED VMWARE!
20:36:37  <z-MaTRiX> sure
20:37:04  <Dreamxtreme> Another System Definition Facility
20:37:13  <Dreamxtreme> or Association of Synchronous Data Formats,
20:37:36  <Nite_Owl> "How come every time I point to an F you see K ?" - Soupy Sales just before his TV show went dark.
20:38:17  <z-MaTRiX> how about qemu, virtualbox, xen ?
20:38:46  <TrueBrain> whoho, finally, I can get access
20:38:50  <TrueBrain> well, sort of
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20:39:23  <TrueBrain> it says 'loading'
20:39:26  <Farden> tryin to setup a VMWare server TrueBrain?
20:39:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17390 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Switch news item windows to nested widgets.
20:40:39  <Zuu> r17356 | rubidium
20:40:39  <Zuu> -Fix: actually implement scrolling for the subsidy list instead of 'just' showing a scroll bar.
20:40:41  <Zuu> :-)
20:41:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17391 /trunk/src/ (gfx.cpp gfx_func.h): -Codechange: Add string box calculation routine for multi-line strings.
20:42:59  *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@client-82-27-236-169.brnt.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
20:44:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17392 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use 'default' for reacting on click.
20:44:50  <TrueBrain> bah, can't boot from USB device :p
20:46:03  *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff589.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:46:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17393 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Fill small window with widgets.
20:47:02  <Belugas> night
20:47:09  <TrueBrain> night Belugas :)
20:47:16  <Belugas> and see you tomorrow :)
20:47:22  <Nite_Owl> later Belugas
20:47:26  <Belugas> you too dear(s)
20:47:36  <Alberth> good night
20:49:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17394 /trunk/src/ (news_gui.cpp news_type.h): -Codechange: Add news flags for viewport settings.
20:52:10  *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
20:53:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17395 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Fill thin window with widgets.
20:54:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17396 /trunk/src/ (news_gui.cpp news_type.h): -Codechange: Add company news window.
20:54:48  <TrueBrain> first crash .. WHOHO!
20:54:58  <SmatZ> gratz
20:55:09  <TrueBrain> it completely failed on accessing my extern USB
20:55:21  *** R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has joined #openttd
20:55:22  <TrueBrain> the webbased console is REALLY crappy (the realy console .. it is SLOW)
20:56:07  <glx> that's why I use vmware infrastructure client to use the VMs ;)
20:56:08  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17397 /trunk/src/ (engine_gui.cpp news_gui.cpp news_type.h): -Codechange: Add new vehicle news window.
20:56:19  <TrueBrain> which requires windows ....
20:56:39  <glx> ha right :)
20:57:01  <glx> maybe you can use it in a virtual box windows VM ;)
20:57:45  <TrueBrain> hehehehe
20:57:47  <TrueBrain> I considered that
20:57:50  <TrueBrain> but windows eats resources :p
20:59:19  *** Mega [~Mega@188.90.111.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:59:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17398 /trunk/src/ (news_gui.cpp news_type.h): -Codechange: Fill normal news item window with widgets.
21:00:12  <TrueBrain> nice .. a cursor! WHOHO!
21:00:35  <Alberth> it blinks?
21:00:39  <TrueBrain> nope
21:00:42  <TrueBrain> just a cursor
21:00:49  <TrueBrain> clearly VMWare fails to boot from a HD ..
21:00:52  <TrueBrain> at least virtualbox can do that
21:00:57  <TrueBrain> HD = external HD
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21:08:58  <glx> check the bios
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21:11:00  <TrueBrain> WHOHO! Another crash!
21:11:07  <TrueBrain> when it tries to access /dev/sg3
21:11:08  <TrueBrain> it freezes up
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21:28:24  <TrueBrain> glx: leo4all boots immediatly here (10.5)
21:28:32  <TrueBrain> dunno if it will want to install :p
21:28:55  <glx> you get the installer?
21:29:28  <glx> what's the CPU?
21:30:18  *** Brianetta [~brian@client-81-109-185-122.hers.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd
21:30:36  <TrueBrain> I have an Intel
21:30:40  <TrueBrain> so that might matter
21:30:43  *** Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:30:46  <TrueBrain> although it shouldn't
21:30:55  <TrueBrain> lets see if I can get it installed
21:31:08  <glx> AMD with AMD-V should work too
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21:31:18  <TrueBrain> I don't even have VT-x :p
21:31:54  <glx> maybe I should try to find leo4all then :)
21:32:04  <TrueBrain> it was the first CD I could find :p
21:32:07  <glx> but not now (watching Lost)
21:32:11  <TrueBrain> (in my stack of install disks :p)
21:32:13  <TrueBrain> Lost :s
21:32:15  <TrueBrain> blegh
21:33:09  <Rubidium> yeah... lost cause
21:33:25  <Katt> God damn windows
21:33:30  <Katt> It's even easier to install drivers in linux
21:34:48  <TrueBrain> lol, it has trouble probing /dev/diskN ..
21:34:49  <TrueBrain> how nice :p
21:36:39  <glx> there's no leo4all and version it seems
21:36:44  <glx> *amd
21:36:53  <TrueBrain> I thought it was the most complete version
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21:37:04  <TrueBrain> but oaky .. I see the install screen, I see the rainbow, and ... nothing :p
21:37:16  * Rubidium votes for renaming leo4all to leo4allthathavetherighthardwareanddonotwantittorunvirtualised
21:37:22  <glx> blue screen with rainbow ?
21:37:33  <TrueBrain> it is not blue in this version
21:37:53  <glx> but the screen before the installer window I mean
21:38:08  <TrueBrain> I boto with -v
21:38:37  <TrueBrain> k, iDeneb wants to start too .. that I have locally installed
21:38:47  <TrueBrain> (but booting that from my local disk hits some kind of infinite loop :(
21:39:07  <glx> probably because missing VT-x
21:39:16  <TrueBrain> then it would complain some how, not?
21:39:37  <glx> maybe there's a log somewhere :)
21:40:01  <TrueBrain> ah, yes
21:40:03  <TrueBrain> kernel stack fault
21:40:22  <glx> how do you read the log ?
21:40:27  <TrueBrain> in the Events tab
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21:42:01  <TrueBrain> cdrom spindown .. never a good sign :p
21:42:32  <glx> but you still see the spining beach ball
21:42:41  <TrueBrain> not in the iDeneb version
21:42:46  <TrueBrain> there it doesn't do that in this screen :p
21:43:20  <glx> ha right I never managed to get there with iDeneb
21:43:31  <glx> only with iAtkos
21:43:43  <TrueBrain> lovely ... vmware-server is giving me errors
21:44:01  *** Mks [~mks@c83-176-234-98.cust.tele2.se] has joined #openttd
21:45:29  <TrueBrain> but okay .. it sucks I can't get it to boot from my external HD, as they version should be easy to get to work
21:45:36  <TrueBrain> they = that
21:46:00  <TrueBrain> and I can't do that same trick on my local disk .... (or I need to reformat everything :p)
21:47:15  <TrueBrain> when I enable network, iDeneb doesn't go that far :p
21:51:48  <TrueBrain> wow, how big is the driver-cache ... it just botted a LONG way without spinnig up the cd ...
21:51:49  <TrueBrain> aamzing ..
21:52:35  *** Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:52:47  <R0b0t1> I think it depends on your ram
21:53:08  <TrueBrain> wow, iDeneb now boots till I see the rainbow thingy :p Then .. well .. nothing :p
21:53:10  <TrueBrain> but still :)
21:53:26  <welshdragon> TrueBrain: what is your goal?
21:53:37  <Xaroth> getting it to work? :P
21:53:49  <welshdragon> getting what to work?
21:53:54  <Xaroth> read up?
21:54:00  <TrueBrain> glx: my biggest change: saying it is a 32bit FreeBSD kernel
21:54:11  <Sacro> TrueBrain: can you not use KVM/Qemu?
21:54:20  <glx> well I say it freebsd32 too :)
21:54:26  <TrueBrain> I hav ethis weird feeling of deja-vu ...
21:54:44  <TrueBrain> he, cdrom spinup
21:54:51  <TrueBrain> and spindown ...
21:54:52  <TrueBrain> lol :p
21:54:55  <Xaroth> lol
21:54:58  <glx> but I still get spinning beach ball, and cpu usage droped
21:55:03  *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:55:07  <TrueBrain> (and yes, I messure activity by spin up/down
21:55:12  <glx> meaning it just hange
21:55:14  <glx> d
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21:55:26  <TrueBrain> glx: installing on my real system gives those moments too
21:55:32  <TrueBrain> sometimes it is just .. doing .. something :p
21:55:41  <TrueBrain> but yes, it does that here too now
21:56:00  <glx> but vmware used to eat a core in continue ;)
21:56:09  <glx> at least it does for tiger
21:56:18  <TrueBrain> if it is waiting for some network activity or what ever
21:56:59  <glx> hmm I set it on host-only
21:57:21  <glx> maybe I should try it bridged
21:58:26  <TrueBrain> it now boots completely without spinning up my cdrom :) Annoying, as now I lost all ways to see if it stilld oes something :p
21:58:31  <Sacro> TrueBrain: well i've got osx86 working with qemu/kvm
21:58:32  *** Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit []
21:58:38  <Sacro> you just need some patches
21:59:30  <TrueBrain> Sacro: I know there are qemu patches, but we need either vbox or vmware
21:59:46  <TrueBrain> the performance of qemu sucks, and of kvm is not much better (yet)
22:00:35  <TrueBrain> k, last try, then I am going to find my bed
22:02:23  <Sacro> i might try an iAtkos 7 vm in a bit
22:03:10  <glx> I should try on my brother machine one day (he have a AMD-V enabled CPU)
22:04:59  <Sacro> yeah
22:05:07  <Sacro> you'll probably need AMD-V
22:05:12  <Sacro> or intel vtx
22:08:45  <Eddi|zuHause> whoa... glx changed colours!
22:09:01  <TrueBrain> you ahve that too? First time he is red for me ..
22:09:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i knew something was weird today
22:09:03  <TrueBrain> he was always in green
22:09:08  <SmatZ> yeah
22:09:18  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, apparently he joined as glx_
22:09:19  <SmatZ> what happened?
22:09:21  <TrueBrain> on what does Konversation base the colour of a user?
22:09:30  <Eddi|zuHause> and some clients remember the colour on rename
22:09:45  <SmatZ> does it depend on authorised/op/voice/... ?
22:10:01  <Eddi|zuHause> no, just the name the person originally joined with
22:10:02  <SmatZ> hmm doesn't seem so
22:12:32  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, for me this should be fixed on my next reconnect ;)
22:13:08  <SmatZ>  /kick Eddi|zuHause ? ;)
22:13:21  <Eddi|zuHause> no need... i can wait ;)
22:13:33  *** Dreamxtreme [~chatzilla@93-97-81-59.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:13:35  <Eddi|zuHause> my disconnect is scheduled for 1:33
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22:14:03  <TrueBrain> glx: it indeed appears dead at that point
22:14:04  *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK
22:14:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm in the same timezone as you are ;)
22:14:12  <TrueBrain> which is weird, as all my other install attempts never ever frooze there
22:14:23  <Xaroth> you broke it :P
22:14:39  <TrueBrain> but okay, time to go to bed now (for me anyway)
22:14:43  <TrueBrain> tomorrow I will fiddle some more
22:14:45  <Xaroth> good point
22:24:49  <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm gonna continue cleaning these damn tracks
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23:11:52  <Pikka> doh
23:18:23  <Eddi|zuHause> good morning to you, too, sir.
23:20:10  <Pikka> thanks
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23:36:59  <Pikka> Yexo-sama
23:37:26  <Yexo> evening Pikka
23:38:01  <Pikka> I think I have a grf... just a couple of things I need help with... the format of the real2 and the 3...
23:38:17  <Pikka> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Av8ports_testing
23:38:38  <Yexo> the real 2? what should that contain?
23:39:20  <Pikka> the real graphics
23:39:26  <Yexo> -1 * -1	 03 0D 01 00 00 88 00 <- that's the action 3 I use in my test grf, where the last 88 00 is the action2
23:39:43  <Pikka> mmkay
23:39:55  <Yexo> no idea if that makes any sense
23:40:05  <Yexo> I just copy/pasted it from somewhere
23:40:09  <Pikka> yeah, I guess so
23:42:11  <Pikka> and the action 2?  eh, I guess I'll just use a building-tile-style 2 for now
23:42:29  <Yexo> action 2 for airport tiles?
23:43:05  <Yexo> as per your spec that's the same as action 2 for houses and industry tiles
23:43:11  <Pikka> ah
23:43:15  <Pikka> action 2 for the airport
23:43:28  <Pikka> preview graphic and callback fail
23:43:41  <Pikka> I just made that 2 the same as the tile ones
23:43:55  <Pikka> okay, let me compile this up and update the nfo on the wiki
23:45:18  <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/renum_data_airports.zip updated to the spec as of now
23:47:06  <Pikka> thanks
23:47:15  <Pikka> there.. grf uploaded
23:47:19  <Pikka> http://www.pikkarail.com/ttdp/secret/test_airport.grf
23:47:26  <Pikka> may or may not work.  at all. :)
23:48:05  <Pikka> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Av8ports_testing has the sprites and commented nfo
23:48:36  <Yexo> I'd be very surprised if it works, as most of the callback handling isn't code yet
23:48:47  *** valhallasw [~valhallas@195-241-124-225.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
23:49:08  <Pikka> well, once it is, still may or may not work. ^^;
23:51:33  <Pikka> btw, z position of nodes...
23:52:19  <Pikka> == height above the airport, limited by the maximum height of the world, right?  rather than absolute height?
23:53:04  <Yexo> of course, aboslute height would be nonsense
23:53:56  <Yexo> should it be relative to the height of the nothernmost airport tile or relative the the tile the x/y is on?
23:54:24  <Pikka> eh, the northernmost tile I'd say
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23:57:44  <Belugas> hoooonnn what a shame...
23:58:18  <Belugas> some networks in the US are down and cannot process payment transactions...
23:58:24  <Belugas> and we are not to blame
23:58:30  <Belugas> hoooonnn... what a shame

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