Log for #openttd on 13th October 2009:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:32  <Ammler> welshdragon: same way as single player
00:01:56  <welshdragon> Ammler:  resetengines is forbidden
00:02:34  <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: ah, you mean get outdated vehicle models back?
00:02:42  <welshdragon> yes
00:02:44  <Eddi|zuHause> that is not possible in multiplayer
00:02:49  <welshdragon> :(
00:02:56  <welshdragon> it damn well should be!
00:02:59  <Eddi|zuHause> load the game in singleplayer, change the setting, load it back in multiplayer
00:03:01  <welshdragon> *shakes fist*
00:03:03  <Ammler> but you can load the mp game in sp, and load it back
00:08:23  <Sacro> ZOMG
00:08:35  <Chrill> Sacro just lost the game, everyone
00:09:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: yes, "1 Elle" is around "1 Fuss"
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00:10:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: depending on country ;)
00:10:19  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: not ture
00:10:24  <Sacro> put your foot against your arm
00:11:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: that's more difficult than it sounds :p
00:12:45  <Chrill> it isn't
00:12:51  <PeterT> what OS are you using then Eddi?
00:12:55  <Chrill> put your left foot to your right arm
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00:13:56  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: what Chrill said
00:14:03  <Sacro> left ankle on right elbow
00:14:09  <Chrill> Sacro
00:14:19  <Sacro> what?
00:14:21  <Chrill> <Sacro> I just lost the game
00:14:25  <Chrill> see?
00:14:30  <Sacro> see what?
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00:14:33  <Chrill> you did it
00:15:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: strangely, it seems to work better with left elbow and right ankle
00:15:17  <Chrill> as long as you dont lick your elbow, you'll be fine
00:15:55  <Eddi|zuHause> my backbone is probably quite heavily twisted
00:18:33  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- has some of the various values
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00:24:19  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: anyway, the length from my elbow to my wrist is slightly longer than my foot
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00:24:51  <Sacro> close though
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00:27:21  <Eddi|zuHause> "Alte hallische Elle 60,22 cm"
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02:29:50  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, this thing has a weird opinion on what "1680x1050" looks like
02:30:45  <Eddi|zuHause> and suddenly eth0 does not appear anymore :(
02:31:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i had to switch my internet connection to eth1
02:31:34  <Eddi|zuHause> (eth0 is onboard, eth1 a pci card)
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03:30:44  <Eddi|zuHause> y
03:30:54  <Eddi|zuHause> so, resolution is better now
03:31:24  <Eddi|zuHause> next task: learn to hit the right keys ;)
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06:43:32  <boekabart> a great morning, afternoon, evening or night to everyone!
06:46:35  <planetmaker> moin moin #openttd
06:47:54  <boekabart> That 'signals in tunnel' patch - does that have trunk-potential?
06:49:45  <planetmaker> not any which exists
06:49:58  <planetmaker> but I'm no dev
06:50:26  <boekabart> I'm talking about the one that fakes signals every N tiles
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07:01:51  <planetmaker> boekabart: me, too
07:02:04  <planetmaker> that's a very hackish solution
07:02:37  <planetmaker> and there's so far no good one
07:02:42  <boekabart> it seems to me to be - but then again, isn't the whole way trains go through tunnels a very hackish solution in ttd?
07:03:12  <boekabart> yet it works like a charm
07:03:19  <planetmaker> without signals. yes
07:03:44  <planetmaker> without some sort of 3D information a clean implementation of signals therein is probably difficult.
07:03:53  <planetmaker> Or you'd have to come up with some elegant solution
07:04:02  <boekabart> indeed
07:04:20  <boekabart> I mean - it seems to be a solution that perfectly matches the way tunnels and bridges are done...
07:05:42  <planetmaker> to me it doesn't
07:06:15  <planetmaker> it's easy to say that tunnels & bridges are tracks between A and B.
07:06:29  <planetmaker> to assume anything else about the track than a plain connection is daring
07:07:11  <boekabart> I don't see how it's that much more daring, really. To clarify: I haven't looked at the patch code yet so I can't tell whether it's programmed ugly or not
07:07:21  <boekabart> My first impression was also 'ewww'
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07:09:39  <planetmaker> having a simple connection between A and B allows development in all directions and all kind of (clean) solutions
07:10:15  <planetmaker> complicating matters by adding a hackish additional assumption to those tracks won't help any clean future solution as backward compatibility has to be maintained.
07:10:52  <planetmaker> from what I gather what goes into trunk and what not, that's a clear NO for that kind of patch
07:12:25  <planetmaker> (and if it was up to me, I'd decide the same way :-P - not that I have a good solution, though )
07:13:06  <boekabart> you actually might have a good reason there - the need to support savegames made with this option when porting to a nice solution
07:13:12  <planetmaker> having signals on bridges / in tunnels would be certainly nice, though, too
07:13:38  <boekabart> but a question does come to mind: why doesn't openttd have signals on bridgehead/tunnel-entrances yet
07:13:55  <planetmaker> they're part of the tunnel / bridge, I guess
07:14:22  <planetmaker> same question probably: why aren't ther custom bridge heads / tunnel entrances
07:14:28  <boekabart> hehe
07:14:31  <boekabart> well apparently his patch does find room in the maparray to place them
07:14:36  <planetmaker> answer: no one implemented it glitch-free
07:14:51  <planetmaker> the map array is not the major obstacle afaik. yes
07:15:24  <planetmaker> probably the patch takes the ... what signal density? and assumes the same in the tunnel.
07:15:32  <planetmaker> what, if you change it? what happens in multiplayer?
07:19:41  <Rubidium> not much, IIRC they can't crash in the tunnel, but that might be another of those patches (besides the desyncing and such, but who cares about that?)
07:23:02  <planetmaker> :-)
07:23:19  <planetmaker> I have to say: no desync in ages. That was different about two years ago.
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07:25:26  <boekabart> so Rubidium, you're still a dev right, do you agree with planetmaker's thinking?
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07:46:38  <planetmaker> boekabart: read his comment again and judge yourself ;-)
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07:49:33  <boekabart> i thought the 'not much' was about 'what happens in MP' :)
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07:54:14  <Rubidium> that making a quick hack causes lots of problems later on, yes... I agree with planetmaker on that
07:55:02  <planetmaker> probably for other reasons, though ;-)
07:55:41  <Rubidium> that's amongst others why I stopped my (stab-in-the-dark) OS X fixes
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07:58:08  <Terkhen> good morning
07:58:13  <Rubidium> good moaning :)
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09:43:26  <Seberoth> hi
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11:21:02  <boekabart> Heh, what about the tunnels under sea patch that doesn't require deep water? Real smart I think, if the UI is done right. devs like it?
11:22:52  <dihedral> you think the devs are unaware of such patch?
11:23:24  <boekabart> they probably never visit the forum :) of course I don't think that
11:23:32  <boekabart> just wondering
11:23:44  <dihedral> did you try asking google?
11:23:52  <dihedral> i am sure someone on irc asked that question
11:23:58  <dihedral> and some websites host logs of irc
11:24:14  <dihedral> s/irc/this irc channel/
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11:25:43  <dihedral> uh - perhaps they might have even commented in the forums something with regards to the patch
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11:54:44  <boekabart> dihedral: not a single dev commented on the chunnel patch in the forum...
11:55:20  <dihedral> ah, you are specifically talking about chunnels
11:55:42  <boekabart> yes, shorter than ' the tunnels under sea patch that doesn't require deep water'
11:55:44  <boekabart> :)
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11:55:49  <dihedral> i recall seeing remarks on that
11:57:09  <boekabart> google says not ;)
11:57:42  <dihedral> google says i have never seen a comment on chunnels?
11:57:59  <dihedral> wow - google seems to know quite a bit more than i had thought
11:58:41  <boekabart> " <Yexo> but usually there are ver good reasons for not doing so  "
11:58:59  <boekabart> (in very general, but near mentioning chunnel patch)
11:59:52  <Yexo> personally I find that patch one big hack (and haven't even looked at the code yet)
12:00:35  <dihedral> there - i've seen another one... perhaps google tells you that yexo never said that line!
12:00:36  <dihedral> :-D
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13:11:37  <Toby> Hi
13:12:02  <Toby> anyone i could ask some questions?
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13:17:22  <dihedral> if there aint no question, nobody aint gonna answer
13:17:48  <Belugas> is that a question already?
13:18:25  <dihedral> hello Sir Belugas
13:18:37  <Toby> no not yet
13:18:56  <Toby> my KIs arent working
13:19:06  <Toby> it says that i need to download them
13:19:08  <dihedral> in english they are called AI
13:19:18  <Toby> yeah AI, sorry
13:19:31  <dihedral> did you check the 'online content' button?
13:19:36  <dihedral> lower left in the main menu
13:19:44  <Belugas> Move your lips togueter, give them a motin forward.  then suck the air from them. that will end up with a ...
13:19:46  <Belugas> KISS
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13:20:48  <dihedral> Toby, things you should read: README files,,
13:21:02  <dihedral> or
13:22:09  <Toby> thanks
13:22:20  <Toby> iŽm already reading
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13:54:33  <planetmaker> [15:52]	<dh>	[15:19:31] did you check the 'online content' button? <-- follow that advice
13:56:21  <Belugas> check a button? or press a checkbox?
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13:56:30  <Belugas> buwawawawa!!!
13:56:38  *** Kiss is now known as Muxy
13:57:26  <Muxy> someone talked about Kiss ?
14:02:08  * Belugas licks Muxy
14:02:36  * Muxy jump to the plafond
14:02:56  * Muxy jumps, jumps
14:06:21  <dihedral> planetmaker, odd nick you have for me ;-)
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14:09:47  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... need an interesting game...
14:10:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i tried out Biing! again, but i always go bankrupt after a few days...
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14:22:47  <planetmaker> dihedral: there was no need to highlight you ;-)
14:23:01  <dihedral> ^^
14:25:31  <planetmaker> hehe :-P
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15:56:22  <DJNekkid> hi gyus ... i were wondering, why cant i articulate IDs above x7F or xFF ? (i cant remember the limit), i mean, i can do everything else above xFF, i can "only" add a number to it's "80" ... i.e.: articulate ID x50, 50 80 <low> <high> ... could i just not do 50 81 <low> <high> if i wanted to articulate ID x14F ? (x50+xFF)
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16:13:45  <frosch123> DJNekkid: "The callback return is interpreted as the ID of the vehicle to add. If 80 is added to the ID, the vehicle will be reversed (as if Ctrl was held while bought)." <- that's the only issue
16:18:57  <DJNekkid> so, if i make a spriteset that is reverse, it should be pretty much ok?
16:19:21  <frosch123> no, currently it only uses 7 bits for the id
16:19:37  <DJNekkid> oh...
16:20:37  <frosch123> there is no real decision how to solve that: either by version 8 (no fast solution), or by adding some other flag to some weird variable, ...
16:21:36  <Eddi|zuHause> is anyone actively developing grf version 8?
16:21:53  <frosch123> no
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16:42:26  <Rubidium> dihedral: suggesting ? That's like suggesting
16:46:43  <frosch123> are the tt-ms guys banned from tt-forums?
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16:48:24  <Rubidium> frosch123: unlikely
16:48:52  <frosch123> ah, the email of "admin" makes him known :)
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17:45:33  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r17770 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/ (basque.txt vietnamese.txt):
17:45:33  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:33  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: basque - 20 changes by Thadah
17:45:33  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 21 changes by nglekhoi
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18:13:23  <frosch123> planetmaker, dihedral: do you see some splash screen ( ) at ottd start?
18:14:56  <frosch123> if you do, do you also see it when using a 32bpp blitter? and is the background black or transparent?
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18:33:49  <fonsinchen> From the wiki:
18:33:49  <fonsinchen> Comments for functions go in the .c file.
18:33:49  <fonsinchen> Comments for inlines go in the .h file.
18:34:15  <fonsinchen> Is that still correct? I see a lot of documentation in cargopacket.h
18:34:33  <fonsinchen> (not only for inlines)
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18:35:41  <frosch123> it is correct for C style functions without class scope. wrt. classes - no idea :p
18:37:54  <fonsinchen> It should be clarified. I'll go with the predominant style in cargopacket.h and my own style of common sense now and document things in the header. After all, anyone using the class is looking at the header first.
18:38:43  <frosch123> if you use ctags, you might always look at the source
18:39:02  <SpComb> the header seems like the correct place for docs for me
18:39:14  <Alberth> or if you kind of know the class, you also skip the header
18:39:17  <SpComb> some people read headers
18:39:45  <Alberth> SpComb: in that case, you may be better off reading the generated docs
18:40:15  <SpComb> not always
18:40:54  <frosch123> i think i prefer documentation in the source
18:41:16  * Alberth agrees
18:42:16  <Alberth> also makes maintenance easier, as you can read the code to check whether the parm is still needed etc
18:43:51  * Rhamphoryncus installs openttd (+opengfx) for the first time.  Weeeeeeee!
18:44:21  <fonsinchen> OK, then I'll put the docs in the cargopacket.c
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18:50:53  <surfdue> hey guys
18:51:09  <surfdue> I was going to email but this is here already so no need to
18:51:24  <surfdue> has anyone brought up roller coaster tycoon?
18:51:55  <frosch123> try #rct
18:52:03  <surfdue> no one
18:52:10  <Alberth> you just did
18:52:30  <surfdue> I thought people here would be atleast abit nice.
18:52:46  <frosch123> try TrueBrain
18:52:57  <surfdue> what is that frosch123
18:53:00  <Alberth> afaik RCT is a different game than OpenTTD :)
18:53:13  <surfdue> Of course same engine
18:53:42  <Alberth> maybe a loooong time ago
18:54:03  <Belugas> SAME ENGINE?
18:54:13  <Belugas> Same engine? are you sure?
18:54:19  <surfdue> similar.
18:54:20  <surfdue> sorry.
18:54:34  <surfdue> i think that ttd would be a great start for an open rct you dont?
18:54:42  <Alberth> hardly
18:55:54  <surfdue> It's 99% written in x86 assembler/machine code (yes, really!), with a small amount of C code used to interface to MS Windows and DirectX.
18:56:09  <Alberth> we know :)
18:56:17  <surfdue> i know you know :]
18:56:42  <Alberth> you may be able to re-use some bits and pieces at best
18:57:40  <Alberth> (mainly the graphic engine, I imagine.)  Of ocurse ours doesn't rotate, so there it already goes wrong.
18:58:15  <Alberth> I believe your best bet is to use OpenTTD as a source of inspiration
18:58:37  <surfdue> i dont want it to
18:58:38  <surfdue> rotate.
18:59:00  <surfdue> ifact the point of it is to make a c++ and online version
18:59:06  <surfdue> using intensive php + ajax/jquery/javascript
18:59:17  <Zuu> Unless you have the rct code somewhat legally I would suggest starating from scratch.
18:59:19  <surfdue> we made a game similar to it already using online only and are looking for ideas
18:59:31  * Alberth wishes surfdue very much luck
18:59:33  <Belugas> surfdue, the portions that are "the same" are not big enough to start the same project. BY FAR
18:59:44  <Lakie> I thought RCT and TTD's engines where different
18:59:58  <Lakie> Thus OpenTTD (which is vastly different to TTD now) would be different
19:00:03  <surfdue> Belugas, well we would actually just base it off of what Alberth was saying parts and bits. We want to turn it into a facebook/social application and allow onlin eplay
19:00:39  <frosch123> you started with rct, now you are at facebook :o
19:00:50  * frosch123 heads to the suggestion forum
19:00:54  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:01:17  * Zuu heads to forum #32
19:01:45  <Belugas> i love the "we" part of it ;)
19:01:46  <frosch123> you know the number? you are doomed
19:01:55  <Zuu> hehe
19:02:06  <Zuu> Before ff3 that was how you had to do.
19:02:59  <frosch123> really? why?
19:03:39  <surfdue> Belugas, would you play an online similar version of RCT
19:04:13  <frosch123> belugas would play everything if he would not have to work in turn
19:05:47  <Alberth> while I would love playing rct, I will not do that online, I don't see why playing it locally at one's own machine is not good enough.
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19:06:51  <Alberth> hai andy
19:07:04  <surfdue> support for all OS
19:07:50  <andythenorth> hi hi
19:08:06  <frosch123> hmm, andy is also an osx guy
19:08:13  <andythenorth> yup
19:08:20  <andythenorth> just reading this
19:08:21  <andythenorth>
19:08:21  <frosch123> [20:15] <frosch123> planetmaker, dihedral: do you see some splash screen ( ) at ottd start?
19:08:21  <surfdue> hey andy
19:08:23  <frosch123> [20:16] <frosch123> if you do, do you also see it when using a 32bpp blitter? and is the background black or transparent?
19:08:31  <surfdue> andythenorth,    you play rct?
19:08:33  <Alberth> waste of band-width, dropping connections, laggy response
19:08:43  <Alberth> security risks
19:10:13  <Belugas> surfdue, i don't care about rct.  i just play ottd with my son and i don't have time nor energy to go foward on deving
19:10:19  <Belugas> so... good argument ;)
19:10:58  <surfdue> Belugas, what if i said i have chris's contact info ;]
19:11:11  <andythenorth> Chris Sawyer's
19:11:12  <andythenorth> ?
19:11:20  <surfdue> perhaps i havnt tested it
19:11:24  <andythenorth> I know some people who used to work at Microprose
19:11:27  <andythenorth> They fixed my windows
19:11:33  <andythenorth> And coded a flash game for me
19:11:38  <surfdue> nice
19:11:39  <andythenorth> They didn't do TTD though
19:11:48  <surfdue> rct
19:12:10  <andythenorth> TTD was released when Microprose were in Chipping Sodbury, which I have cycled through occasionally
19:12:22  <andythenorth> My friend keeps a horse near there
19:12:44  <surfdue> andythenorth, so you a mac guy
19:12:45  <andythenorth> Anyway, the microwave beeps and summons me away
19:12:56  <andythenorth> Before I it done yet? :P
19:13:06  <surfdue> andythenorth, we are thinking of making an ORCT
19:13:33  * Rubidium hopes that we doesn't include me
19:13:58  <andythenorth> So, not done then?
19:14:28  <Alberth> Rubidium: surfdue always speaks in 'we' terms.
19:14:36  <andythenorth> Anyone know when it will be done?
19:14:44  <surfdue> andythenorth, orct?
19:14:53  <surfdue> Rubidium, we as in me and a few developers not you.
19:15:10  <Alberth> andythenorth: he has not even started yet
19:15:21  <andythenorth> I mean 'it' not rct :P
19:15:29  <dihedral> frosch123, i'll check tomorrow
19:15:32  <andythenorth> Anyway, if it's not done, I'm going AFK until it's done
19:15:34  <surfdue> andythenorth, if i started today.. probably a few months
19:15:46  * andythenorth afk
19:16:07  <surfdue> how did you guys get around the copyrights with the sounds make your own?
19:16:16  <frosch123> thanks dih
19:17:02  * Rubidium points surfdue to the wiki and 'the list' to surfdue
19:17:18  <surfdue> Rubidium, point whats the link
19:17:36  <Belugas> [15:10] <surfdue> Belugas, what if i said i have chris's contact info ;]   <- ask him to do it, and don't tell him about us!
19:18:01  <surfdue> Belugas, he most likely knows?
19:18:37  <Belugas> ho yeah, he does...
19:18:38  <Belugas> big time
19:18:45  <glx> and dislikes
19:19:03  <surfdue> he said he dosnt like ottd?
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19:20:19  <dihedral> the agency said that
19:20:25  <Belugas> big tim eindeed
19:20:29  <dihedral> hehe
19:20:30  <surfdue> lol
19:20:33  <Belugas> we do not share his "vision"
19:20:34  <dihedral> uh jeah
19:20:39  * dihedral recalles the phone chatsw
19:20:42  <surfdue> did they try to take it down
19:20:49  <andythenorth> what was the vision?
19:21:09  <Belugas> only cs knows
19:21:13  <dihedral> aye
19:21:25  <Belugas> surfdue, no.  i think it's on legal grey zone...
19:21:29  <dihedral> and the 'vision' was 'completed' or 'perfected' with ttd :-D
19:21:46  <dihedral> + there is nothing to sue
19:22:04  <Zuu> frosch123: To distingush between the visited pages that show up when I start typing the two first letters of tt-forums. Then I just selected the right number of those there to get to the right subforum.
19:22:21  <Zuu> 29 for General, 33 for Dev, 65 for NoAI etc.
19:22:31  <andythenorth> I bet his vision included larger ships.  He just didn't have the time I have on my hands...
19:23:43  <Belugas> i guess his vision went into Locomotion
19:23:54  <Belugas> ho my... he loves realism!
19:24:09  <dihedral> and seemingly his vision for RCT never reached a state he was happy with :-P
19:24:49  <surfdue> well if anyone is a developer or graphics designer or sound engineer or is just interested in helping let me know. I want to get a list of people interested in ORCT
19:25:12  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17771 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Codechange: use the 'StringID' function instead of the 'const char *' function + custom code to resolve the 'const char *' from the 'StringID'
19:25:34  <dihedral> surfdue, which version of rct?
19:25:53  <surfdue> dihedral, either 1 or 2. But mostly the best of both
19:25:53  <Zuu> surfdue: What is the problem with RCT? Low resolution? Problem to run >xp? constraints in the game?
19:26:05  <dihedral> because in the early versions, one single wagon had over 6k sprites
19:26:10  <surfdue> Zuu, all of those plus online and multiplayer
19:26:38  <Lakie> RCT + multiplayer?
19:26:40  <Lakie> No.
19:26:48  <PeterT> frosch123/planetmaker: did you get my e-mail about translating?
19:26:55  <surfdue> dihedral, we would limit the amount of spirits with limited rotation
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19:27:09  <dihedral> pffft
19:27:17  <dihedral> PeterT, translation of?
19:27:19  <surfdue> Lakie, Yes! Allow your friends local or via internet to help you setup and build parks
19:27:26  <PeterT> hungarian
19:27:32  <Lakie> Help?
19:27:34  <dihedral> surfdue, then use the original data first, and see what it looks like
19:27:37  <Lakie> You mean destroy
19:27:43  <dihedral> before you get a graphics guy
19:27:47  <PeterT> I sent an email
19:27:47  <surfdue> also additional options that were lacked in rct1 and 2 fireworks, parades, etc. Including OPEN/CLOSE everyday like a normal park
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19:28:04  <surfdue> dihedral, are you a graphics guy?
19:28:22  <dihedral> nope
19:28:38  <PeterT> dihedral is a translator for german, I think
19:28:56  <Zuu> dihedral is dihedral I think
19:29:12  <Seberoth> Wow realy?
19:29:23  * Alberth agrees
19:29:57  <dihedral> PeterT, i dont think you want a list of what i have done so far :-P
19:30:17  <PeterT> Well, I know about patching and translating
19:30:26  <PeterT> and I know you did a ton for wwottdgd
19:30:45  <surfdue> Hmm
19:30:53  <dihedral> uh - and i annoyed some devs a lot too
19:31:02  <dihedral> dont think they were all too happy about that
19:32:16  <surfdue> how many spirits does a train for example or a car have in ottd
19:32:38  <Zuu> spirits? I don't know..
19:32:58  <dihedral> uh - depends... the budhist set ... ufff
19:33:12  <Zuu> Probably you meant sprites
19:33:23  <dihedral> less than 10
19:33:25  <dihedral> :-P
19:33:28  <surfdue> lol.
19:33:33  <surfdue> dihedral, is ottd realyl choppy or animated?
19:34:13  <surfdue> why dont they just use transioners instead of so many sprites for example on a roller coaster you rraelly only need 10 per car becuase it can turn and tilt and flip the image?
19:34:48  <Zuu> turning and tilting would require hardware accelleration and possible OpenGL or DirectX for that.
19:34:56  <surfdue> correct.
19:35:01  <surfdue> most modern pcs have that
19:35:04  <surfdue> my netbook can do that
19:35:16  <Zuu> Take a look on the problems that the OpenGL attempts for OpenTTD had.
19:35:19  <Alberth> yep, except not at the time of rct
19:35:32  <surfdue> Zuu, which ones
19:35:39  <Zuu> Take a look on the forums
19:35:49  <Zuu> Use the search function over there.
19:36:01  <surfdue> Zuu, tell me, otherwise i dont see a problem. It depends on the developers and how they approch it.
19:36:02  <dihedral> surfdue, which platforms do you want to support?
19:36:22  <Zuu> Searching on OpenGL on the OpenTTD forums should yeild quite some results.
19:36:33  <surfdue> dihedral, windows xp vista 7, mac, and compiled versions for linux/unix
19:36:40  <andythenorth> dihedral is actuall CS
19:36:47  <andythenorth> actually grrr
19:36:53  <Zuu> I don't know OpenGL myself but over the years I have seen a few different attempts all which had problems. A common problem is artifacts on zoomed out views.
19:37:07  <frosch123> andythenorth: Andel is
19:37:16  <surfdue> Zuu, see thats aproblem with the programming not opengl :]
19:37:30  <surfdue> it goes into the saying you can only taste what you eat.
19:37:46  <surfdue> aka. the more you put in the more you taste, and visa versa
19:38:02  <dihedral> i wish you good luck surfdue
19:38:07  <surfdue> the more programming and detections they put in the least amount of problems, its either program more or design more graphics :p
19:38:10  <dihedral> you'll need it :-D
19:38:13  <surfdue> dihedral, yatta yatta
19:38:15  <surfdue> :]
19:38:23  <andythenorth> frosch123: Andel is Simon Foster
19:38:35  <Lakie> From what I've seen of OpenGL so far, it doesn't look too friendly
19:38:45  <Lakie> Although I've heard DirectX is even more unfriendly...
19:39:15  <surfdue> Lakie, are you saying ottd dosnt use opengl?
19:39:28  <Zuu> OpenTTD does not use OpenGL.
19:39:30  <frosch123> oh, so Andel: what's you opinion about opengfx?
19:39:33  <surfdue> btw Zuu the game will be written in JS/php for the website, which supports turn tilt and flip
19:39:34  <surfdue> :]
19:39:36  <Lakie> I wouldn't know, I think it uses SDL?
19:39:43  <dihedral> ....
19:40:01  <Zuu> SDL is one of the video backends that OpenTTD supports/uses.
19:40:01  <dihedral> surfdue, i'll refrase... you need way more than just good luck :-P
19:40:08  * andythenorth I'm spartacus
19:40:13  <surfdue> dihedral, wanna see something
19:40:20  <dihedral> sure, let me see
19:40:26  <surfdue> dihedral,
19:40:32  <surfdue> dihedral, similar platform
19:41:14  <dihedral> i see a flash movie
19:41:22  <surfdue> signin with my account
19:41:26  <surfdue> actually just make ur own
19:41:29  <surfdue> it takes 3 seconds
19:41:31  <dihedral> nope
19:41:37  <dihedral> i dont wanna make an account
19:41:44  <surfdue> ok fine done. :]
19:42:06  <dihedral> you could do that with flex......
19:42:11  <dihedral> but js + php ???
19:42:15  <dihedral> you gotta be kidding me
19:42:27  <surfdue> Lol its java js and php
19:42:37  <surfdue> dihedral, why would i wanna use flex or flash
19:42:39  <surfdue> too complicated
19:42:52  <surfdue> that would take forever to make a flash version of this.
19:42:56  <surfdue> of rct
19:42:59  <dihedral> flex....
19:43:31  <surfdue> dihedral, how long would a flex version of rct take . 3 times the amount it took with assembler :P
19:44:22  <dihedral> so now you do not just want to write it in java, js and php, you want to do it in less time than it would take CS to write it in assembler?
19:44:45  <surfdue> dihedral, no im interested in knowing
19:44:48  <surfdue> you code flex?
19:45:03  <dihedral> hoho - NO
19:45:28  <dihedral> i do non frontend stuff ^^
19:45:41  <dihedral> and flex can be a bitch
19:46:27  * Sacro is learning flex now :D
19:46:30  <Sacro> and bioson
19:46:32  <Sacro> *bison
19:46:50  <surfdue> Sacro, from what you know flex and a version of rct how long
19:46:50  <surfdue> lol
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19:47:06  <Sacro> surfdue: uh, what?
19:47:10  <surfdue> flwex
19:47:11  <surfdue> flex
19:47:13  <surfdue> rct
19:47:14  <surfdue> how long
19:47:42  <dihedral> D looks interesting ^^
19:48:23  <dihedral> Sacro, surfdue has the odd impression that you could judge how long it would take you to write rct 1 or 2 in flex
19:48:42  <surfdue> guestimate
19:48:44  <surfdue> 1 year
19:48:46  <surfdue> 15 years
19:48:48  <surfdue> 200 year
19:48:48  <surfdue> lol
19:49:11  <andythenorth> can't you do it in Wordpress?
19:49:11  <dihedral> surfdue, guestimates suck
19:49:12  <Zuu> Would you work 40 hour a week or how much time each week would you work?
19:49:13  <andythenorth> or Plone?
19:49:18  <andythenorth> Oh sorry, wrong irc
19:49:20  <surfdue> Zuu, 40
19:49:32  <andythenorth> :P
19:49:34  <surfdue> andythenorth, probably wp not plone
19:49:34  <surfdue> ;]
19:49:35  <dihedral> andythenorth, :-P
19:49:58  <dihedral> surfdue, from what you have posted so far, i would guess you are 15 years old
19:50:00  <Zuu> (i mean work as in working on rct)
19:50:07  <surfdue> dihedral, no 18.
19:50:10  <dihedral> or have VERY little experience in coding
19:50:25  <surfdue> Zuu,40 hours working on rct spare time per week
19:50:34  <andythenorth> surfdue: you are however brave ;)
19:50:41  <TrueBrain> frosch123: an hour late, but can I still play the nice guy?
19:50:42  <dihedral> oh - even less experience than i had thought
19:50:45  <surfdue> dihedral, i program in 8 different programming languages most web languages or "scripting languages"
19:51:02  <andythenorth> surfdue: ah, but can you write nfo?
19:51:04  <dihedral> and that makes you experienced??
19:51:11  <andythenorth> I can, and I'm off to prove it now
19:51:15  <surfdue> andythenorth, info?
19:51:22  <dihedral> just because you can make 10 different vehicles move, does not mean you are a good driver ;-)
19:51:22  <Alberth> andythenorth: ROFL!
19:51:37  <surfdue> dihedral, well experience is rated per person and based on the individuals basis of experience
19:51:45  <frosch123> TrueBrain: what, one hour spamming already :o
19:51:57  <TrueBrain> yes ... that is why I ask ;)
19:51:59  <andythenorth> dihedral: I assume that comment about 10 vehicles was aimed at my nfo skills?
19:52:15  <dihedral> nope
19:52:25  <dihedral> that was aimed at surfdue
19:52:28  <andythenorth> :P
19:52:45  <andythenorth> hey my nfo DIDN'T BREAK THE GAME
19:52:49  <andythenorth> !
19:53:01  <surfdue> dihedral, i gues your jelous ;]
19:53:07  <dihedral> ah... nope
19:53:13  <surfdue> dihedral, you dont design or code aparently?? what do you do
19:53:49  <surfdue> dihedral, instead of talking s**t to someone with programming experience that could benefit this project or an ORCT idea, start talking about your own downfalls.
19:53:53  <andythenorth> surfdue: don't poke that dog - try learning nfo instead
19:53:53  <andythenorth>
19:54:09  <surfdue> andythenorth, what is nfo the graphics part of it
19:54:50  <dihedral> surfdue, i don't play an ace if a 2 is enough
19:54:52  <dihedral> ;-)
19:55:01  <surfdue> i dont play cards.
19:55:22  <andythenorth> baroque
19:55:23  <surfdue> dihedral, some games Ace is the highest card, some its not. So that dosnt make sense to me
19:55:36  <andythenorth> nfo is hex
19:55:38  <andythenorth> ish
19:55:52  <surfdue> andythenorth, what drives the graphics on the individual vehicles, buildings etc.
19:56:01  <surfdue> why was rotate not built in ottd btw do you know
19:56:01  <andythenorth> anyway code doesn't get written by participating in irc slap fights
19:56:05  <andythenorth> except when it does
19:56:19  <dihedral> surfdue, search the forum, google...
19:56:21  <dihedral> it's all there
19:56:26  <dihedral> you just gotta read
19:56:34  <andythenorth> no but really I didn't break the game with my update to FIRS.  Where's my cookie?
19:56:41  <surfdue> dihedral, if you dont know, dont answer. i wanna speak to alive person
19:56:44  <dihedral> but i guess you are too experienced to know such stuff
19:57:46  <dihedral> TrueBrain, can we keep him?
19:57:46  <andythenorth> oh gah, who is op?  how does kick work?
19:58:16  <surfdue> ?
19:58:22  <surfdue> why would you kick me im not the one insulting
19:58:30  <surfdue> or that dosnt know what hes talking about
19:58:39  <TrueBrain> sure
19:58:45  <dihedral> who said he wanted to kick YOU? :-P
19:58:45  <andythenorth> surfdue: I think it would just be kinder to you.
19:58:51  <andythenorth> No I do
19:58:55  <dihedral> :-D
19:58:56  <dihedral> ah
19:59:01  <dihedral> andythenorth, /ignore ^^
19:59:04  <andythenorth> I think it's fairer
19:59:20  <surfdue> hope none of you have iphones
19:59:26  <surfdue> i mean andythenorth and dihedral
19:59:27  <surfdue> :]
19:59:43  <dihedral> and why would that matter?
20:00:19  <surfdue> it wouldnt less u have it
20:00:25  *** Seberoth2 [] has joined #openttd
20:00:27  <andythenorth> dihedral: if I send you 20 nfo files, can you just finish them for me, thanks :)
20:00:33  <andythenorth> it will distract you from picking on the newbie
20:00:43  <dihedral> and i connect directly to irc, and do not use some open wireless accesspoint and .....
20:00:53  <dihedral> andythenorth, :-P
20:01:01  <dihedral> no it would not :-P
20:01:18  <surfdue> im not a newbie..
20:01:22  <dihedral> surfdue, let me be kind, i think open rct would be a great idea
20:01:32  <surfdue> dihedral, i dont need your advice.
20:01:34  <surfdue> anylonger.
20:01:42  <dihedral> however, i think the coding languages you have chosen suck
20:01:42  <glx> but it's not the right place to talk about it :)
20:02:08  <andythenorth> where has FooBar hidden all the strings?
20:02:19  <andythenorth> for FIRS I mean, not the whole world
20:02:20  <dihedral> the cat took them
20:02:24  <dihedral> oh
20:03:02  <andythenorth> no found them
20:03:06  <TrueBrain> dihedral: here, now you hear it from someone else! :P
20:03:22  <dihedral> :-)
20:04:16  <dihedral> php is way too slow for something like that
20:04:22  <dihedral> js.... c'mon
20:04:31  <dihedral> browers will not even let you consume that amount of memory
20:04:50  <dihedral> + after 60 seconds of execution time, you need to ask the browser to continue running the js script
20:04:55  <dihedral> in fact... every 60 seconds
20:05:15  <dihedral> (not regarding any performance)
20:05:31  <TrueBrain> dihedral:
20:05:47  *** welshdragon [~markjones@] has joined #openttd
20:06:32  <dihedral> it's cracked :-(
20:07:55  <andythenorth> hey FIRS supports translations already :)
20:08:15  *** Seberoth [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:11:20  <dihedral> <- :-D
20:13:38  <Belugas> surfdue, from a guy who admit he does not know about coding, i think the words "[15:34] <surfdue> why dont they just use transioners instead of so..." is not really meaningful.  Please refrain for posing judgmentsm in the futur
20:14:19  <surfdue> Belugas, i dont understand what you mean?
20:15:21  <Belugas> i am quoting you, you are expressing a judgemnt.
20:15:24  <Belugas> a bad one.
20:15:37  <Belugas> "Why don't they..." there is a reason for everything
20:15:45  <Belugas> don't judge
20:15:54  <Belugas> dig and search, understand, THEN judge
20:16:04  <surfdue> Belugas, you cut off what i said so how do i know what you are talking about
20:16:50  <planetmaker> [22:13]	<andythenorth>	[22:02:19] for FIRS I mean, not the whole world <-- where they belong: in the language files :-)
20:17:01  <planetmaker> and good evening :-)
20:17:16  <andythenorth> hi hi
20:17:23  <surfdue> "<surfdue> why dont they just use transioners instead of so many sprites for example on a roller coaster you rraelly only need 10 per car becuase it can turn and tilt and flip the image?"
20:17:32  <andythenorth> didn't we discuss a kick?
20:17:43  <surfdue> Belugas, OTTD dosnt do this, the original TTD does, why are you talking about this?
20:17:53  <surfdue> the ottd devs are doing the right thing?
20:18:10  * planetmaker smells an annoying person
20:18:14  <glx> we do it like TTD
20:18:33  <surfdue> No you do it better then ttd, isnt that the point?
20:18:35  <Belugas> planetmaker, indeed, and it's not Yorick, for once
20:18:45  <planetmaker> indeed. He learnt ;-)
20:18:56  <glx> surfdue: we do it like TTD, many sprites per vehicle
20:19:11  <surfdue> Belugas, what you said made absolutely no sense. You guys really need to stop picking all i came in here for was to discuss posible involvement with OTTD and a possible ORCT
20:19:30  <surfdue> glx, i cant suggest an alternative way to do it when i remake rct or is that not allowed?
20:19:37  <Belugas> ok... suggestion:  if you like gong on with that RCT stuff, get on the proper room
20:19:42  <Belugas> hoo... there isnone?
20:19:45  <Belugas> create one, please
20:19:47  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17772 /trunk/src/ (gfx.cpp gfx_func.h network/network_chat_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#3264]: CJK languages don't have spaces, so for adding newlines (multi line strings) we need to (properly) handle the case when there are no spaces instead of truncating the string.
20:20:09  <surfdue> Belugas, please read the first part "discuss possible involvement with OTT"
20:20:15  <surfdue> D*
20:20:23  <Noldo> CJK languages?
20:20:35  <glx> chinese japanes korean
20:20:37  <planetmaker> Noldo: asian...
20:20:55  <frosch123> chinese japanese korean
20:20:58  *** Terkhen [] has quit [Quit: ...]
20:21:00  <Noldo> don't have spaces?
20:21:01  <planetmaker> :-)
20:21:10  <glx> they don't need spaces
20:21:26  <planetmaker> but they need complicated input themes
20:21:30  <Noldo> lucky bastards
20:22:39  <andythenorth> grrr....FIRS has *way* too many industries for the mini map to be sane.  Who's idea was that :|
20:22:40  <Belugas> surfdue, do you see anything that could, from far or near, suggest RTC is linked to that topic?
20:23:08  <frosch123> andythenorth: make them close faster, users are always happy about that
20:23:10  <surfdue> Belugas, the engine that OTTD uses can be utilized in parts to create it, so yes. And the fact I am a developer.
20:23:17  *** Terkhen [] has joined #openttd
20:23:25  <frosch123> or do you mean the legend?
20:23:32  <andythenorth> mostly the legend yes
20:23:38  <andythenorth> My fault of course
20:23:47  <andythenorth> And I had to draw all the bloody things
20:23:54  <Zuu> Personally unless I would know the TTD engine well I would restart from scratch.
20:24:31  *** Grelouk [] has joined #openttd
20:24:48  * frosch123 would really be interested what part of ottd could be used for a browser based rct
20:24:49  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
20:24:51  <surfdue> Zuu, perhaps, it would be nice to rip the graphics engine out though taht will get the ball rolling, as CS said, he took transport tycoon and made the vehicles into coasters and made RCT.
20:25:02  <surfdue> frosch123, not the browser version
20:25:29  <surfdue> Zuu, not litterally but objectively yes
20:25:30  <Belugas> surfdue, OTTD is open source.  take the part that you want, create your new project, create your own room then go.  IF you want to help improve the current engine AND STILL KEEP THE SAME FEELLING, you're welcome
20:25:33  <Zuu> surfdue: With the big difference that CS knew his engine code already.
20:25:47  <surfdue> Zuu, correct.
20:26:12  <Lakie> RCT thinks quite differently to TTD engine wise. One is 2D and one is "3D" in its logic.
20:26:25  <surfdue> Belugas, your like rampaging. I am just talking about things like you are, as you can see I have a room now #rct :] Am I not allowed to talk here sir?
20:26:51  <surfdue> Lakie, you mean rct is the 3d one right?
20:26:56  <surfdue> Lakie, or "3d sorry"
20:27:03  <Lakie> Yes.
20:27:10  <surfdue> Lakie, you mean in the sense it can rotate
20:27:13  <Lakie> It requires different logic and handling.
20:27:14  <Lakie> No
20:27:16  <surfdue> Lakie, the original ttd couldnt?
20:27:22  <Lakie> In how its stored and processed
20:27:25  <surfdue> or could it sorry
20:27:34  <surfdue> im just wondering about that
20:27:42  <Lakie> the bridges and tunnels (the 3d elements of TTD) are more hacks
20:28:03  <Zuu> TTD couldn't rotate the view.
20:28:09  *** Terkhen [] has quit []
20:28:30  <surfdue> just wondering never played the original never interested me that much, or locomotion RCT was the big one for me
20:28:59  * Rubidium ponders suggesting to install 'pivot' for rotating the view
20:29:18  *** PeterT [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:29:37  <Lakie> Heh, problem is 2D sprites tend not to rotate so well, Rubidium. ;)
20:29:44  <andythenorth> Rubidium: I just hold my macbook up and turn it.
20:29:52  <andythenorth> It does tend to make the mp3s skip though
20:30:11  <surfdue> Rubidium, that would be funny.. lol
20:30:12  <Lakie> Why would it make mp3s skip?
20:30:20  <Rubidium> Lakie: that's absolutely no problem for 'pivot'
20:30:29  *** Terkhen [] has joined #openttd
20:30:43  <Lakie> Hmm...
20:31:18  <andythenorth> Lakie: motion sensor on the drive...
20:31:26  <andythenorth> depends how much rotating you want of course
20:31:29  <dihedral> too little cache ey?
20:31:31  <andythenorth> 10', no skip
20:31:46  <dihedral> surfdue, rct 1 and 2 used up to 7k sprites per wagon
20:31:53  <dihedral> there was no image tilting, etc.
20:31:55  <andythenorth> cache size could be specified in 'amount of rotation before mp3s skip'?
20:32:10  <dihedral> ttd did the same, just there was no need for more than 10 sprites per wagon
20:32:13  <dihedral> it's even less
20:32:43  <dihedral> openttd uses the same aproach
20:33:43  <surfdue> dihedral, so basically if opengl or directx was possible we could utilize 10 or less and use tilting built into the graphics processing
20:34:03  <dihedral> then you should use different images
20:34:09  <dihedral> i.e. not 2d sprites
20:34:14  <surfdue> dihedral, transport tycoon dosnt use tilting at all, the land si flat?
20:34:15  <surfdue> is*
20:34:25  <Belugas> yup
20:34:26  <dihedral> they are sprites!
20:34:28  <andythenorth> FIRS FIRS FIRS: 8 done, 32 to go....back to the nfo
20:34:34  <dihedral> it's all 2d
20:34:46  <surfdue> i would like to make 1 image for the entire thing
20:34:56  <surfdue> so if there is 10 spirits make it train-sprites.jpg
20:34:57  <dihedral> + if you want to go opengl, php and js are not your language
20:34:58  <surfdue> for example
20:35:07  <surfdue> dihedral, i also program in c and c++
20:35:09  <surfdue> ;]
20:35:14  <surfdue> and perl..
20:35:16  <surfdue> but that dosnt help lo
20:35:17  <dihedral> yuck
20:35:19  <dihedral> no
20:35:27  <dihedral> you then want some modeling
20:35:28  <surfdue> why yuck ?
20:35:30  <Belugas> does not make sens, you'd need indexing for the part that is to be displayed
20:35:38  <dihedral> and then you cannot use the openttd engine for graphics
20:35:40  <surfdue> dihedral, i can program it in bash and ladder :P
20:35:44  <Belugas> think it's faster to have one inmage per veiw
20:36:06  <surfdue> Belugas, you would load all the images into memory
20:36:07  <Alberth> but that breaks at bridges etc
20:36:16  <andythenorth> surfdue: try programming it in brainfuck
20:36:16  <andythenorth>
20:36:21  *** Rubidium [] has left #openttd [boring...]
20:36:21  <Belugas> memory is niot the problem
20:36:24  <dihedral> surfdue, dont try to brag with langauges... you have > 100 people in this channel
20:36:27  <dihedral> you might dig a ditch depper than you want it
20:36:28  <surfdue> is that a real language.. lol
20:36:34  <Belugas> live image manipulatin is a tedious process
20:36:40  <surfdue> dihedral, im not bragging with languages.
20:36:49  <dihedral> andythenorth, i bet he is the author of brainfuck :-D
20:37:12  <andythenorth>
20:37:17  <dihedral> Belugas, if used with opengl you can move it to the gpl :-P
20:37:20  <dihedral> eh
20:37:25  <dihedral> gpu
20:38:14  <surfdue> Belugas, its not ahrd at all you make a class and functions for it and apply it to each object depending on the settings of the object like a rollercoaster vs a water ride would have different speeds/gravity
20:38:19  <Belugas> go ahead :)  last time i've heard, gpl was too slow to be uselefull
20:38:33  <dihedral> :-)
20:38:36  <andythenorth> gah, brainfuck made me forget what I'm doing
20:38:39  <surfdue> Belugas, i wonder what games like halo use..
20:38:41  <surfdue> Lol.
20:38:49  <andythenorth> I doubt they use lol somehow
20:38:53  <Alberth> less moving objects
20:39:14  <Belugas> and by the way... with those modifcaiotns in mind, you are gettin further away fro our graphic engine
20:39:19  <dihedral> they have a totally different engine + game approach + state
20:39:22  <surfdue> well like rct they use 3d objects that are rendered from all sides
20:39:31  <Belugas> Halo and all are NOT 2d sprites oriented...
20:39:42  <surfdue> airline tycoon
20:39:43  <dihedral> surfdue, only rct3 did that
20:39:43  <surfdue> yoot tower
20:39:44  <surfdue> :p
20:39:55  <surfdue> i hate rct3
20:40:13  <dihedral> that's the only one in the line that was real 3d
20:40:25  <surfdue> halo is
20:40:35  <dihedral> ... in the line of RCT!!
20:40:43  <surfdue> lol
20:40:44  <dihedral> !!!!!oneeleven
20:40:49  <surfdue> urfunny
20:40:57  * Zuu goes to bed and reads a good book instead
20:41:01  *** Zuu [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:41:05  <dihedral> :-D
20:41:52  <surfdue> i could make rct in gamemaker
20:41:52  <surfdue> :P
20:42:00  <Belugas> well good for you
20:42:07  <surfdue> Belugas, its a joke.
20:42:14  <dihedral> you have a lot of interesting and enthusiastic ideas...
20:42:17  <surfdue> Belugas, cool down
20:42:17  <dihedral> however....
20:42:25  <dihedral> uh....
20:42:35  * dihedral gets the popcorn
20:42:50  <surfdue> Belugas, i feel like you are expressing certain hate towards me for no reason
20:42:51  * andythenorth gets back to the nfo
20:43:02  <andythenorth> let me know when this is done
20:43:19  <dihedral> surfdue, reason is in the eye of the beholder ;-)
20:43:47  <dihedral> + if the beholder is a channelop... 'reason' can do way more than you might have gambled for
20:45:42  <Belugas> i'm in a very bad mood right now. people who are polluting my vital space are always putting me in a bad mood.  My jokometer did not spotted your humour.  Your reasoning failed to impress me in any way.  So... how should i react?
20:46:15  * planetmaker suggests a cleanthing approach.
20:46:29  <planetmaker> some people already left due to boredom
20:46:33  <andythenorth> 14 done, means 26 to go
20:46:37  <surfdue> Belugas, i dont know do what you have to, i just want to know how the operators operate in this room to see if its operator abuse or not since i did nothing wrong.
20:46:59  <planetmaker> surfdue: you're absolutely off topic, I guess.
20:47:02  <surfdue> !nick surfdue-afk
20:47:07  *** surfdue is now known as surfdue-afk
20:47:16  <surfdue-afk> planetmaker, not any longer
20:47:19  <surfdue-afk> nothing is beingsaid?
20:47:29  <surfdue-afk> and is it a kick/ban reason to be offtopic when no one is talking?
20:47:39  <planetmaker> yes
20:47:57  <planetmaker> depending upon the contents
20:47:59  <surfdue-afk> planetmaker, thats a great way to promote your product and gain users
20:48:04  <dihedral> surfdue-afk, kick/ban reason is defined by those who kick/ban
20:48:05  <planetmaker> yup
20:48:09  <dihedral> everybody else in the channel gets that
20:48:19  <SmatZ> changing your nick when you become afk is a subject to kick too
20:48:21  <SmatZ> sometimes
20:48:25  <surfdue-afk> if you came to #iphone or #leopard where im an admin and i kick you for no reason
20:48:28  *** surfdue-afk was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [now you're really off]
20:48:29  <planetmaker> :-)
20:48:30  <SmatZ> if you change your nick too often
20:48:35  <SmatZ> :-p
20:48:41  <dihedral> oh - TrueBrain said i could keep him!
20:49:13  <dihedral> but it's cute - he invited you to a channel where he is an admin, just to kick you ;-)
20:49:23  <_ln> a typical day in Sacro City:
20:49:25  * dihedral hugs Belugas
20:49:34  <Belugas> no, he just invited me to suck his dick
20:49:39  <andythenorth> that was fun
20:49:45  <planetmaker> nah. boring
20:49:56  <planetmaker> though it had it's funny elements, granted
20:50:20  * andythenorth /irony
20:50:39  <SmatZ> [20:13:22] <frosch123> planetmaker, dihedral: do you see some splash screen ( ) at ottd start?
20:50:39  <planetmaker> :-P
20:50:40  <SmatZ> [20:14:55] <frosch123> if you do, do you also see it when using a 32bpp blitter? and is the background black or transparent?
20:50:48  *** Grelouk [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
20:50:57  <SmatZ> did you reply to this, or did I miss it? could you check please? :)
20:51:15  <planetmaker> SmatZ: never ever
20:51:23  <planetmaker> oh... never tried 32bpp :-)
20:51:25  <dihedral> SmatZ, i will tomorrow
20:51:32  <frosch123> SmatZ: dih wants to test tomorrow, but it does not hurt if andy and pm test today :)
20:51:35  <Belugas> now.. that is good talking :)
20:51:45  <SmatZ> ah, ok :)
20:51:59  <SmatZ> I missed your discussion then ;)
20:52:06  <dihedral> there was none
20:52:07  <dihedral> :-D
20:52:13  <andythenorth> SmatZ: what am I testing?
20:52:17  <dihedral> it was a 'ill do it tomorrow' and a 'ok'
20:52:28  <TrueBrain> dihedral: sorry, I was overruled ;)
20:52:34  <dihedral> :-P
20:52:35  <SmatZ> andythenorth: nothing?
20:52:39  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
20:52:41  <TrueBrain> for good reasons, I might add
20:52:52  <dihedral> yep
20:52:54  <andythenorth> SmatZ: well strictly I'm testing FIRS right now
20:52:58  <dihedral> +q would have been more fun though
20:53:03  <TrueBrain> on that I agree
20:53:18  <TrueBrain> but I now no longer dare to join one of the channels he is a so called admin in ... I am scared :(
20:53:38  <dihedral> pffft
20:53:48  *** Polygon [] has quit [Quit: Flieht, ihr Narren!]
20:53:50  <dihedral> i bet the #rct is not registered :-D
20:53:52  <TrueBrain> and now I am going to watch a movie and go to bed
20:53:59  <TrueBrain> nightynight
20:53:59  <glx> why would you want to join #iphone?
20:54:05  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has joined #openttd
20:54:05  <Belugas> hehe... i would like to see the effect of been kicked :)
20:54:09  <planetmaker> SmatZ: bin/openttd -b 32bpp-anim & is the correct call, right?
20:54:19  <planetmaker> if so: then it has no effect
20:54:28  <TrueBrain> well, we can do what the tt-forums did with that 'new forum because tt-forums sucks'
20:54:28  <planetmaker> concerning splash screen or so
20:54:31  <TrueBrain> I kind of liked that
20:54:42  <SmatZ> maybe blitter doesn't have to be set, I don't know :)
20:54:45  <SmatZ> but okay ;)
20:55:01  <glx> splash screen is an OS feature I think
20:55:54  <Belugas> damned... what a butt head...
20:56:05  <Belugas> all those channels do not exist
20:56:08  * Belugas creis
20:56:11  * Belugas crie
20:56:12  <planetmaker> well... the first thing I see of OpenTTD is... the title menu with the intro game
20:56:12  <frosch123> planetmaker: no splashscreen at all, or black or transparent background?
20:56:13  * Belugas cries
20:56:16  <dihedral> hehe - perhaps on another network ;-)
20:56:24  <planetmaker> or well... maybe before that an empty window while loading
20:56:27  <Belugas> ho.. then.. i wont run after him....
20:56:31  <planetmaker> frosch123: nothing.
20:56:37  <planetmaker> no splash
20:56:40  <Belugas> i wanted to invite him to suck my toes, but it's not worth it
20:57:36  <dihedral> why not #Belugas.bitches :-P
20:57:39  <SmatZ> planetmaker: do you get splash in non-32bit mode?
20:57:52  <planetmaker> SmatZ: nope
20:57:58  *** asilv [] has quit []
20:58:48  <planetmaker> it looks to me like it's a SDL feature, given the further comments in that commit message
20:59:00  <frosch123> no, it is cocoa only
20:59:01  *** tux_mark_5 [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090115, built on: 2009/03/07 00:45:02 UTC]
20:59:45  <planetmaker> well. I've never seen it, neither on 10.4 nor on 10.6 in any version ever afaik
21:00:24  <SmatZ> and with this?
21:00:32  *** Chrill [~chrischri@] has quit []
21:00:35  <SmatZ> anyway... I thought pitch is always in bytes...
21:00:50  <SmatZ> (does that code even execute?)
21:00:59  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:01:30  <frosch123> hmm, SmatZ: isn't screen_pitch already in bytes?
21:01:43  <SmatZ> [23:00:33] <SmatZ> anyway... I thought pitch is always in bytes... <== ;-)
21:02:26  <planetmaker> SmatZ: neither
21:02:35  <planetmaker> but it has a warning comparing singed vs. unsigned
21:02:41  <SmatZ> :)
21:02:42  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
21:03:12  <frosch123> lol, QZ_GameLoop is never called
21:03:26  <planetmaker> :-P
21:03:27  <dihedral> :-D
21:03:27  <SmatZ> uh :(
21:03:36  <SmatZ> OSX port is hopelessly outdated :-p
21:03:39  <frosch123> oh, wait, maybe i need to include *.mm in the grepping
21:03:49  <planetmaker> frosch123: indeed :-)
21:03:51  <dihedral> lol
21:04:47  <_ln> *cough* drop it
21:05:06  * planetmaker kicks _ln
21:06:03  <frosch123> however planetmaker, either you do not use cocoa, or i do not know :p
21:06:13  <andythenorth> planetmaker: what Mac text editor do you use?
21:06:17  <frosch123> or it cannot find the file
21:06:30  <planetmaker> frosch123: well... I guess there's not much way around cocoa, right?
21:06:40  <SmatZ> sdl?
21:06:46  <planetmaker> andythenorth: depends. xcode or the usual text editor or texshop
21:06:53  <andythenorth> ok
21:07:11  <frosch123> where does FioFOpenFile("splash.png") search, eh?
21:07:26  <andythenorth> was hoping someone else might think nfo syntax colouring for TextWrangler would be nice
21:07:33  <frosch123> in os/maxosc ?
21:07:39  <frosch123> maybe you need to install ottd?
21:08:04  <planetmaker> SmatZ: that would require SDL to run here
21:08:20  <planetmaker> it might now. But I haven't tested it.
21:08:23  <frosch123> andythenorth: what do you want to colour? strings, hex, escapes and comments?
21:08:31  <andythenorth> pretty much
21:08:36  <andythenorth> the c++ colouring is close
21:08:38  <andythenorth> but no cigar
21:08:39  <planetmaker> andythenorth: maybe there's one for emacs?
21:08:42  <glx> ,...f = FioFOpenFile(SPLASH_IMAGE_FILE); <-- in splash.cpp
21:08:48  <planetmaker> on my 10.4 install I had emacs, too
21:08:59  <andythenorth> planetmaker: and there ends any sane discussion about text editors
21:09:06  <planetmaker> :-)
21:09:08  <andythenorth> like godwin's law, only for text editors
21:09:36  <glx> it depends on libpng
21:09:45  <frosch123> glx: #define SPLASH_IMAGE_FILE		"splash.png" <- and that one (bad tab usage btw)
21:10:14  <andythenorth> only 7 industries left to do
21:10:17  <frosch123> but the .png is in os/macosx/ not in bin or so
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21:10:42  <frosch123> planetmaker: so, if you copy splash.png in the binary folder?
21:10:46  <glx> it is copied when building the dmg IIRC
21:10:58  <glx> then it's in the dmg
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21:11:07  <planetmaker> glx: I usually don't build dmg
21:11:19  <planetmaker> hm... maybe I should test it with a dmg :-)
21:11:28  <frosch123> make bundle
21:11:29  <dihedral> andythenorth, jedit ^^
21:11:31  <frosch123> copies it
21:11:34  <planetmaker> make bundle_dmg
21:11:39  <glx> ,...$(Q)cp    "$(ROOT_DIR)/os/macosx/splash.png"                   "$(DATA_DIR)"
21:11:49  * Belugas is gone. willneed to sleep a lot
21:11:51  <Belugas> bye
21:12:00  <planetmaker> bye Belugas
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21:13:14  <andythenorth> grr.  newgrf window: if I put you somewhere on the screen, it's for a reason.  stop jumping to the middle
21:14:11  <planetmaker> SmatZ: frosch123 glx when I use the bundle, there's the OpenTTD logo growing. I guess that qualifies as splash
21:14:52  <SmatZ> yeah :)
21:14:55  <SmatZ> guess so
21:15:03  <SmatZ> with the patch, or without the patch?
21:15:07  <SmatZ> or doesn't it matter?
21:15:18  <planetmaker> both
21:15:24  <SmatZ> ok, thank you :)
21:15:30  <planetmaker> :-) you're welcome
21:16:08  <andythenorth> 5 left
21:16:30  <andythenorth> 4 left
21:16:58  <frosch123> planetmaker: and the background is also black for 32bpp blitters?
21:17:17  <SmatZ> true, 32bpp blitter has to be used
21:17:19  <SmatZ> :-x
21:17:20  <SmatZ> anyway
21:17:21  <planetmaker> uh... I forgot to enable any blitter. Just clicked on the icon
21:17:29  <SmatZ> _screen.pitch is certainly in bytes
21:17:40  <planetmaker> I guess I need to change the config for that...
21:17:59  <planetmaker> it was transparent btw
21:18:01  <SmatZ> 					dst = ((uint32 *) _screen.dst_ptr) + (yoff + y) * _screen.pitch + xoff;
21:18:07  <SmatZ> but then even this is wrong
21:18:55  <andythenorth> 3 left
21:18:59  <SmatZ> planetmaker: can you make sure that code is executed? by something like error("yes it works!") there?
21:19:12  <frosch123> 	_screen.pitch = ((byte*)screen->line[1] - (byte*)screen->line[0]) / (bpp / 8); <- SmatZ: looks like it isn't
21:19:24  <andythenorth> 2 left
21:19:50  <frosch123> yeah, pitch is in pixels
21:20:02  * SmatZ slaps myself
21:20:06  <SmatZ> sorry frosch123 :-x
21:20:34  <andythenorth> 1 left
21:20:46  <frosch123> [23:19] <SmatZ> dst = ((uint32 *) _screen.dst_ptr) + (yoff + y) * _screen.pitch + xoff; <- he, you were again faster
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21:21:39  <andythenorth> and I'm done
21:21:55  <andythenorth> although certain questions have been begged.
21:22:08  <andythenorth> does a water tower really need to use the production callback?
21:22:24  <andythenorth> there is no 'processing' for water really
21:22:49  <planetmaker> SmatZ: adding the error line to the start of the splash routine crashes openttd even from the command line
21:22:57  <SmatZ> planetmaker: good :)
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21:23:19  <SmatZ> so this works :)
21:23:27  <SmatZ> eg. there is no need to set Alpha channel
21:23:37  <planetmaker> with or without 32bpp-anim
21:24:35  <SmatZ> 						dst[x] = palette[src[x]].blue | (palette[src[x]].green << 8) | (palette[src[x]].red << 16) | 0xff000000;
21:24:38  <SmatZ> oh it's set later...
21:24:56  <frosch123> SmatZ: the png does not fill the screen
21:25:01  <SmatZ> now why it's done when it's overwritten later
21:25:19  <SmatZ> ok
21:25:25  <SmatZ> guess I am too sleepy for this :)
21:26:46  <planetmaker> why does it need that patch?
21:28:22  <frosch123> because memset only takes bytes
21:28:32  <frosch123> 0xff000000 is pointless
21:28:51  <planetmaker> oh, right
21:29:00  <planetmaker> I guess I'm too tired, too
21:29:02  <frosch123> alpha is set to zero, and we wondered whether it worked at all :p
21:30:43  <andythenorth> time for bed
21:30:49  <andythenorth> for me anyway.  you lot feel free to carry on
21:31:34  <andythenorth> good night
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21:34:40  * planetmaker will also go to bed. Tomorrow is another 16h working day ahead, if I judge from today and yesterday
21:34:41  * planetmaker waves good night at everyone
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21:46:28  <Sacro> eugh
21:46:31  <Sacro> BNF is evil
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21:53:58  <Sacro> there must be an easiuer way of writing [a-zA-Z]
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22:17:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: that's why (E)BNF is used for the syntactical analysis, not for the lexical analysis.
22:17:53  <Eddi|zuHause> lexical analysis is done by regexp
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22:18:33  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: true
22:18:38  <Sacro> can i use one to generate the other?
22:18:44  <Sacro> also EBNF is bammed :(
22:19:55  <Eddi|zuHause> how could you? regexp is way less powerful than EBNF
22:20:28  <Sacro> heh
22:21:07  <Sacro> how do i do a quote?
22:21:10  <Sacro> ''' ?
22:21:22  <Eddi|zuHause> in what?
22:21:27  <Sacro> hm
22:21:29  <Sacro> "'"
22:21:30  <Sacro> BNF
22:21:59  <Sacro> <character_constant> :== "'" <character> "'"
22:22:55  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, same techniques as in all other programming languages
22:25:22  <Sacro> yeah
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22:33:37  <Terkhen> good night
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22:41:58  <Sacro> things like confuse me
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22:43:28  <Eddi|zuHause> why? it's a sequence of "<value>" connected by either "*" or "/"
22:43:33  <Sacro> yeah
22:43:45  <Sacro> can you use brackets>
22:44:14  <Sacro> like <term> :== value ( '*' | '/' )
22:44:39  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i think so, might be EBNF
22:44:43  <Sacro> sigh
22:44:51  <Sacro> i could use an EBNF -> BNF converter :p
22:45:18  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's not necessary, just make two rules
22:45:38  <Eddi|zuHause> term :== value
22:46:03  <Eddi|zuHause> err: term :== value '*' and term :== value '/'
22:46:17  <Sacro> yes but that doesn't cover the recursive compenent
22:46:44  <Eddi|zuHause> err, yes, misses "term" at the end
22:46:54  <Sacro> term := value '*' | value '/' | term
22:46:58  <Sacro> but that feels wrong
22:47:05  <Eddi|zuHause> no
22:47:09  <Sacro> ooh
22:47:13  <Sacro> | term value
22:47:46  <Eddi|zuHause> term :== (value | value '*' term | value '/' term )
22:48:24  <Sacro> oh yes
22:48:38  <Sacro> and the lone 'value' cancels the recursion
22:48:48  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly
22:49:31  <Eddi|zuHause> might use a left associative version, though
22:49:49  <Eddi|zuHause> term :== (value | term '*' value | term '/' value )
22:50:06  <Sacro> <term> :== <value> | <value> '*' <term> | <value> '/' <term>
22:50:45  <Sacro> does it matter?
22:51:03  <Eddi|zuHause> arithmetic expressions are usually left associative
22:51:18  <Eddi|zuHause> logical expressions right associative
22:51:23  <Sacro> true
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22:53:19  <Eddi|zuHause> just try to build an example tree, a*b/c/d*e in either version
22:54:20  <Sacro> hmm
22:55:05  <Sacro> what about ?
22:55:10  <Sacro> can that be done in one rule?
22:55:11  <Eddi|zuHause> and compare that with the bracket tree for (((a*b)/c)/d)*e
22:55:48  * Sacro ponders
22:55:57  <Eddi|zuHause> that's usually the part done in regexp
22:56:07  <Sacro> Yeah :(
22:56:12  <Sacro> but EBNF is not allowed
22:56:26  <Sacro> i've done it using a <charactersordigits> rule
22:56:34  <Sacro> but i have the feeling i might not be getting it
22:56:38  <Sacro> kinda like when i do prolog
22:56:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i can imagine... ;)
22:57:13  <Sacro> my prolog was atrocious till it clicked
22:57:21  <Eddi|zuHause> but it should work with the same kind of recursion as above
22:58:31  <Eddi|zuHause> identifier :== character | identifier character | indentifier digit
22:58:33  <Sacro> should it?
22:58:44  <Sacro> hmmm
22:58:49  <Sacro> but does that allow ...
22:58:55  <Sacro> i think my head is going to explode
22:58:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
22:59:00  <Sacro> ><
22:59:12  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the easy part ;)
22:59:45  <Eddi|zuHause> wait until you get to the attributed grammars for the semantical analysis :p
22:59:50  <Sacro> oh bugger
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23:45:46  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: mind *blown*
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