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Log for #openttd on 5th December 2009:
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00:00:06  <frosch123> class A { void f(); }; class B { protected: int a; }; void A::f() { dynamic_cast<B>(this).a = 1; }
00:00:14  <matsebc> righhttp://github.com/zodttd/openttd.app
00:00:20  <matsebc> O.o
00:00:25  <matsebc> ops sorry url is
00:00:26  <matsebc> http://github.com/zodttd/openttd.app
00:00:32  <SmatZ> frosch123: haha, nice :)
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00:01:23  <SmatZ> Rubidium:  :)
00:01:41  <frosch123> s/class B/& : A/
00:02:31  <SmatZ> s/<B>(this)./<B*>(this)->/
00:02:44  <SmatZ> anyway, interesting question
00:02:48  <frosch123> yeah, i am on java currently :p
00:02:49  <SmatZ> and frankly I don't know
00:02:57  <frosch123> i will just try :)
00:03:08  <SmatZ> frosch123, I am disappoint
00:03:13  <SmatZ> java...
00:03:34  <Rubidium> well, at least it's better than .net
00:03:35  <SmatZ> last time I did java it didn't have templates :)
00:03:36  <SmatZ> hehe
00:03:55  <matsebc> Rubidium: did you take a look at the link
00:03:57  <matsebc> ?
00:04:35  <Rubidium> matsebc: yes, I know of that... uhm...
00:04:45  <frosch123> SmatZ: what's the point of templates in java ?
00:05:07  <Rubidium> frosch123: not having to cast iterator.Next()?
00:05:17  <Rubidium> not having to cast collection.Get(i)?
00:05:21  <frosch123> ok :)
00:05:33  <SmatZ> frosch123: no clue, C++-ish way to do interfaces?
00:06:04  <Rubidium> matsebc: can you tell what version of OpenTTD that is?
00:06:24  <matsebc> oh not a clue Rubidium just found that thing myself
00:06:45  <matsebc> 0.6.3 (2008-10-01)
00:06:47  <matsebc> it seems
00:06:52  <Rubidium> no, definitely not that
00:06:52  <matsebc> according to the changelog
00:07:04  <Rubidium> the changelog only gets updated on releases
00:07:19  <matsebc> OpenTTD README
00:07:19  <matsebc> Last updated:    2008-10-01
00:07:19  <matsebc> Release version: 0.6.3
00:07:20  <matsebc> ?
00:07:24  <matsebc> on readme.txt
00:07:47  <Rubidium> yes, but the readme of the nightlies says 2009-12-01, 0.7.4... but the nightlies aren't 0.7.4
00:08:19  <matsebc> ok, where can I check for the version
00:09:02  <Rubidium> it's r15332 of trunk
00:09:52  <Rubidium> which is quite buggy
00:10:14  <Rubidium> if I look at the number of bugfixes that came since then
00:12:07  <Rubidium> and there was an enormous list of issues on the blog page where he released it, but he has redone his website and I can't find that anymore
00:12:22  <Rubidium> anyhow, you still have to compile that (or jailbreak your iphone)
00:12:45  <matsebc> yeah, thing is that what I checked out of git is not really that well organized
00:12:51  <matsebc> so, dunno were to start
00:12:59  <Rubidium> me neither
00:13:49  <Rubidium> you probably need some extra makefiles or so that he conveniently didn't add
00:13:55  <matsebc> yup
00:13:58  <matsebc> I think that's the case
00:14:38  <Rubidium> and given the state of that repository I fear he has absolutly no idea how to use git
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00:22:53  <matsebc> so, basicaly that repository is garbage
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00:26:19  <Rubidium> yup
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01:15:49  <matsebc> Rubidium: thanks :D
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10:30:09  <petern> nice
10:30:27  <petern> the 'new' MC has hidden articulation
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10:32:57  <andythenorth> r18381 also has 'hidden' the trailers for aRVs...in the vehicle window.
10:33:00  <andythenorth> :0
10:35:54  <SmatZ> are you sure it was r18381?
10:38:10  <andythenorth> I'll check
10:39:10  <andythenorth> SmatZ: no, not sure
10:40:08  <andythenorth> I'm testing Terkhen's rv acceleration patch.  I thought I'd removed it, but I'm not confident I had.  Let me try with a clean 18400 and see if the problem is there
10:40:47  <petern> it is there, but it isn't caused by r18381
10:42:36  <andythenorth> sorry I can't be of more use  :(
10:45:29  <_ln> question #2: does it matter what Bjarni thinks?
10:54:35  <_ln> i.e. if Bjarni has a misguided thought about one small detail just because his mouse has two buttons, is it ok to submit a fix for that detail?
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11:20:23  <planetmaker> _ln: you question is missing a pre-condition: that anyone knows what Bjarni thinks and that he communicates what he thinks
11:21:23  <Alberth> also, he has write access to the repo :)
11:21:55  <_ln> which he is not very actively using nowadays
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11:53:19  <planetmaker> Alberth: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=120918 <-- so much for "black box invasion" in the current head of OpenGFX :-)
11:54:30  <Alberth> Really nice!
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12:07:02  <_ln> i assume nobody considered increasing the resolution of gfx while drawing those?
12:09:33  <planetmaker> Not sure. But we don't aim to produce zoom level sprites.
12:10:08  <Alberth> you cannot zoom/unzoom sprites if you want highest possible quality
12:10:53  <Alberth> so you'd end up with unusable sprites w.r.t. current OpenTTD
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12:49:54  <Hirundo> roadveh_base.h:39  friend class RoadStop; <- RoadStop is a struct, not a class, MSVC complains about this.
12:50:53  <Eddi|zuHause> so write "friend struct RoadStop"?
12:52:28  <Hirundo> That should work, methinks
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13:09:08  <planetmaker> Hm... is it intended that the price to found an industry is ten-fold for a primary one when settings are "as other industries" compared to "by prospecting"?
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13:11:48  <Xaroth> planetmaker: I think that's the factor for being able to place where one is found rather than a random choice?
13:12:38  <planetmaker> well. obviously. My question is: is that intended? Probably...
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13:18:27  <Tegal> just decide if yur staying or going already :P
13:19:24  <Andel> http://radio.zernebok.com:8080/  << radio on folks
13:19:25  <Andel> :-)
13:20:13  <Tegal> what music
13:21:03  <Andel> dance, mostly
13:21:09  <Andel> sorta progressive
13:21:09  <Tegal> cool
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13:22:41  <Rubidium> planetmaker: yes, that's intended
13:22:54  <Rubidium> but if you don't like it... write a base costs newgrf
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13:45:34  <planetmaker> hehe :-) Ok. I just wondered when I tested toyland industries
13:46:05  <planetmaker> I suddenly didn't have money anymore - and they were so cheap before I changed to "as others"
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13:46:41  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why you should pay attention :p
13:49:41  <planetmaker> yeah. Using ctrl+alt+c often enough :-P
13:51:24  <planetmaker> hm... two toyland industries to go. And a few building stages to wrap...
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13:54:21  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r18408 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17954): After computing the needed width for the client list, also use it.
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14:02:28  <Ch0Hag> Is it possible to mix trams/road in bridges and tunnels?
14:02:43  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
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14:03:08  <Eddi|zuHause> just build the other type on the tunnel-/bridgehead
14:03:34  <Ch0Hag> Got it. I was trying to overbuild another bridge.
14:04:14  <Ch0Hag> Doesn't seem to work with the miltu-directional thingy.
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14:22:46  <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean?
14:23:30  <Eddi|zuHause> the "autoroad" tool is a little bit difficult to use, because it doesn't show the road bit you are going to build
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14:55:32  <Zuu> How long is it supposed to take to clone the cargodist respority? Using git from cygwin it has been "walk"ing through a lot of checksums the last 10+ minutes.
14:56:03  <Rubidium> git on windows is horribly slow
14:56:31  <Zuu> Ok, so "git the fast ..." is not true on Windows.
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14:57:41  <Rubidium> exactly; primarily due to the major difference in the complexity of file operation (adding them to a directory and such)
14:57:46  <thingwath> well, I remember trying to help someone with git, he reported insanely strange problems, and after an hour or so he told me, that he is on windows :) so, I guess you can't even expect it to work correctly
14:58:03  <Zuu> ok
14:58:30  <fonsinchen> for me it works
14:58:36  <fonsinchen> even fairly fast
14:58:45  <fonsinchen> the problem is the http transport
14:59:11  <fonsinchen> but I have to wait for the admin to return from holidays before I can change that.
14:59:15  <thingwath> It wasn't completely broken, just... sometimes... I simply couldn't trust git on windows
15:00:11  <Zuu> I first tried to apply the cargodist-rxxxx.diff file to trunk (downloaded using svn). However patch.exe complained about the format of the patch, so I though I had to cahange the line endings. Nither vim command: :%s/\n/\n\r/g or :%s/\n/\r\n/g helped. So I though I test to use git instead.
15:00:39  <planetmaker> It's that windoze patch doesn't accept everything it should.
15:01:07  <Zuu> I don't know. I know SVN patch is broken, so that is why I used gnu patch instead.
15:01:46  <planetmaker> To my knowledge it's the same patch binary. But I might be wrong.
15:01:58  <planetmaker> VCS and patch is two completely independent things usually
15:02:44  <Zuu> Oh, well now git clone finished. :-)
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15:03:44  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r18409 /trunk/src/table/industry_land.h: -Change [FS#3349]: Recolour the bubble generator just like any other industry. (planetmaker)
15:04:02  <Zuu> hmm, fonso says I should do "git checkout origin/cargodist" after clone; however, git complains when I do that. Should I change "origin" to the name of the folder that git clone created?
15:04:19  <planetmaker> hey :-) Thanks frosch123 :-)
15:05:03  <fonsinchen> what is the complaint?
15:05:34  <Zuu> G:\Programming\OpenTTD\Cargodist>git checkout origin/cargodest
15:05:34  <Zuu> fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git
15:05:51  <Zuu> In the Cargodist directory, clone created an "openttd" directory.
15:05:53  <fonsinchen> yes you need to change into the directory it created
15:06:25  <Zuu> That gives this error:
15:06:26  <Zuu> G:\Programming\OpenTTD\Cargodist\openttd>git checkout origin/cargodest
15:06:26  <Zuu> error: pathspec 'origin/cargodest' did not match any file(s) known to git.
15:06:40  <fonsinchen> it's cargodist, not cargodest
15:07:41  <Zuu> Yea, that helped a bit. I have no idea why I got that wrong, since I'm aware of that. :-s
15:08:28  <Zuu> It looks like it even succeded.. but a compile will tell.
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15:11:20  <Zuu> Since so many people was unable to produce a decent callstack for the crash of cargodist, I though that maybe I can help by running cargodist from MSVC.
15:13:55  <Zuu> Thank you all for the git help.
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15:38:23  <Ammler> African Faces are the last missing sprites for the first complete OpenGFX release...
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15:38:55  <Ammler> My proposal: use the real faces of openttd developers instead, what do you think?
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15:41:37  <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p
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15:42:24  <frosch123> http://images.google.com/images?q=frosch <- lots to choose from
15:43:20  <frosch123> esp. the "Tai-Chi Frosch" :)
15:43:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have a "Tai-Chi" frosch...
15:45:10  <glx> <Ammler> African Faces are the last missing sprites for the first complete OpenGFX release... <-- toyland is complete too ?
15:45:57  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: there was talk about finishing toyland industries earlier
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15:46:48  <Ammler> glx: yes, toy factory/shop needs coding but else it is complete
15:47:26  <Ammler> they did a awesome job lately :-)
15:49:11  <Ammler> dear devs, please upload a pass photo to the ogfx dev thread :-)
15:53:25  <Rubidium> not gonna happen
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15:54:11  * Alberth agrees with Rubidium
15:54:56  * LordAzamath agrees with Alberth
15:55:26  <Ammler> well, then LordAzamath will make us some faces ;-)
15:55:41  <LordAzamath> I can't
15:55:56  <LordAzamath> faces are in real life too one of the things I just can't draw
15:55:58  <Ammler> :'-(
15:56:05  <LordAzamath> unless you want toyland faces
15:56:10  <LordAzamath> as those may be kinky
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15:56:35  <frosch123> Ammler: just recolour the existing faces? or are they different?
15:56:36  <Ammler> why not, do they need African?
15:58:40  <frosch123> except africans have only one eye colour, and african woman have two types of chins, while european have only one :s
16:01:11  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r18410 /trunk/src/ (cargotype.cpp cargotype.h station_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Move GetCargoSprite() to CargoSpec::GetCargoIcon().
16:04:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Africans with Fremen-Eyes, would be cool :p
16:04:54  <planetmaker> :-P
16:05:03  <planetmaker> one industry to go
16:12:07  <Ammler> or the potato man
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16:16:50  <frosch123> ktuberling might be gpl'ed
16:17:21  <frosch123> but i guess it is not political correct to use those sprites while the buttontext is still "african"
16:18:23  <Eddi|zuHause> is there a spec for NewFaces yet? ;)
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16:23:44  <Terkhen> hello
16:26:16  <Sacro> petern! newfaces!
16:27:30  <Fast2> Hello
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16:29:07  <De_Ghosty> freemen ?
16:29:12  <De_Ghosty> dune glowing blue ees?
16:30:06  <Eddi|zuHause> De_Ghosty: ever seen the opengfx faces? :p
16:30:25  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a picture recently...
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16:31:14  <Fast2> Presignals are showing green if there's an exit signal which is showing green, although the train can't reach it. Exists the same problem with presignals?
16:31:36  <_ln> fremen?
16:31:55  <Sacro> Fast2: Yes.
16:32:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Fast2: yes, it doesn't care about reachable. only connected (by rails)
16:32:22  <Fast2> :(
16:32:40  <Sacro> Fast2:  a problem involving foo will *always* exist with foo
16:32:44  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... seems the picture has been removed...
16:33:00  <Sacro> might perhaps want to reword the question
16:33:47  <_ln> does someone know why doesn't TVE Internacional have EPG?
16:33:59  <Fast2> Do you know a good workaround?
16:34:08  <Sacro> don't use presignals?
16:34:34  <Fast2> Oh
16:35:06  <Fast2> That's what you tried to say :D
16:35:28  <Fast2> *last "presignal"|pathsignal
16:37:32  <Zuu> Another option might be to make joke hand drawn faces? Still the problem with the "african" button is there.
16:38:00  <Zuu> Unless you make simple african paintings.
16:38:51  <Fast2> So, does the problem exist with pathsignals, too?
16:41:02  <thingwath> if you mean pbs signals, then most likely not, as they are red almost all the time ;)
16:49:42  <Fast2> *In my first message: "are showing"|"show", "is showing"|"shows"
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16:54:22  <Ch0Hag> What's the problem with the African button?
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16:55:24  <_-Bigos-_> hello
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17:07:30  <Alberth> hello
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17:15:20  <Fast2> It seems to work as a result of the pathfinder doing his job :)
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17:52:35  <Phantasm> Will a train of say 20 cars (10 squares) load faster in station of 10 squares or larger? Ie. is there bonus for station size above the normal? I know there is very significant penalty for too small station.
18:03:50  <Alberth> not afaik
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18:06:20  <Sacro> \setmonofont{Comic Sans MS}
18:06:22  <Sacro> *eyes bleed*
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18:07:37  <Chrill> Phantasm, no
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18:45:25  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r18411 /trunk/src/lang/ (greek.txt norwegian_nynorsk.txt portuguese.txt):
18:45:25  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:25  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: greek - 3 changes by fumantsu
18:45:25  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 107 changes by 2rB
18:45:25  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: portuguese - 3 changes by JayCity
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19:07:51  <Zuu> Ch0Hag: The problem would be if we have something else than african faces is that the button will still say "African".
19:08:48  <Zuu> Since the string is coded in OpenTTD. A NewGRF could possible in future change that, but OpenGFX is not a NewGRF.
19:10:26  <Zuu> Oh, and PAXLink fails badly on Cargodist. It reaches stable state at a decent loss every year. :-)
19:11:09  <Zuu> Only some cheat money keeps it alive :-p
19:12:26  <Zuu> My own company has a yearly income almost as big as the yearly loss for PAXLink. :-)
19:20:46  <_ln> does "african" mean "black"?
19:21:56  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: smatz * r18412 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3350]: don't allow sending ships to rail waypoints and trains to buyos (Hirundo)
19:22:57  * Hirundo googles for "buyos"
19:23:41  <SmatZ> 20000 results
19:24:29  <frosch123> now one more
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19:26:37  <Hirundo> Is "if (a & xxx)" preferable to "if ((a & xxx) != 0)"?
19:27:15  <SmatZ> depends on who you ask
19:27:33  <SmatZ> and there are some cases where stupid MSVC gives stupid warnings with the former
19:28:00  <_ln> what, there really are "European" and "African" buttons over there.
19:28:50  <SmatZ> (implicit casts to bool)
19:28:52  <SmatZ> like
19:28:56  <SmatZ> bool a = x & y
19:29:01  <SmatZ> return x & y;
19:29:06  <SmatZ> when returning bool
19:29:13  <Hirundo> Assuming there are no warnings, the former would be preferred?
19:29:14  <SmatZ> but if (x & y) doesn't warn
19:29:18  <SmatZ> for me, yes
19:29:51  <SmatZ> I don't know what are opinions of others...
19:31:59  <Alberth> I'd prefer a comparison
19:33:20  <Alberth> I see a boolean as a 0/1 value, and eg 2 & 6 does not fit
19:33:41  <SmatZ> yeah, but:
19:33:56  <SmatZ> if (flags & FLAG_BIT_SET)
19:34:08  <SmatZ> looks fine imo :)
19:35:12  <Alberth> that's the problem, indeed :)
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19:37:11  <Alberth> the difference is perhaps that 'flags' are boolean-ish, while x and y looks like arbitrary numbers
19:38:14  <Alberth> Hirundo: in general, coding style like tabs/spaces, good use of { and } is much more important, I think
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20:23:36  <planetmaker> The participants list is unnecessarily way too small
20:23:50  <planetmaker> (ingame)
20:24:32  <planetmaker> The width of the player names seems to be disrespected
20:24:58  <planetmaker> (or only first taken into account)
20:26:38  <andythenorth> would randomly naming vehicles from a list be fun?
20:26:43  <andythenorth> (when they are built)
20:26:47  <andythenorth> (especially ships)?
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20:35:56  <SmatZ> planetmaker: do you mean client list windows? it's fixed in r18408
20:36:27  <planetmaker> hm... maybe? Then I added a superfluous bug report
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20:37:08  <planetmaker> ah, pretty much looks like it
20:40:07  <frosch123> how silly, the clientlist is broken for 100 revisions, and on one day two guys report it after it has been temporarily fixed
20:40:20  <planetmaker> he :-)
20:40:25  <planetmaker> such is life, I guess
20:41:02  <Rubidium> well... it just shows that openttdcoop players are the 'only' ones that file bug reports
20:41:30  <frosch123> ok, i guess it was only for about 7 days noticable
20:41:34  <planetmaker> who was the other guy who reported it?
20:41:40  <SmatZ> csuke
20:41:43  <planetmaker> ah
20:41:54  <frosch123> and chris booth some days ago iirc
20:42:10  <planetmaker> :-)
20:42:39  <planetmaker> well... you need a MP server with nightly revisions and sufficient folks to check things
20:44:00  <Rubidium> which is basically only ottdcoop
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20:55:49  <planetmaker> frosch123: can you shortly brief me what I could add to a static newgrf and what not? I understood you graphics for different loading stages are also out of order... which kinda surprises me as it doesn't alter the game behaviour
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20:56:52  <Zuu> I guess it depends on if another GRF could get information about which loading stage the wagon is in at the moment.
20:57:03  <frosch123> action1/2/3 are just considered unsafe without differentiation
20:57:25  <frosch123> as one engine can have just one action3
20:57:44  <frosch123> so you would need to suppress the static grf in case a non-static gets active
20:58:02  <frosch123> also you would need to suppress randomaction2
20:58:16  <frosch123> i.e. lots of work :)
20:58:17  <Eddi|zuHause> "Enchant dict for "de" 0x8baa4b0" <-- wtf does that mean?
21:00:09  <Ammler> since dih dropped his server, the coop server might be the only busy (almost unpatched) nightly server
21:01:52  <planetmaker> hm...
21:02:11  <planetmaker> so... vehicles are a no-no. Also for livery overrides?
21:02:44  <Eddi|zuHause> livery overrides are an action 2, afair
21:03:08  <planetmaker> yes, they are
21:07:55  <George3> Helllo
21:07:59  *** George3 is now known as George
21:08:24  <George> Since when a buttom "rescan" was removed?
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21:10:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember anything getting removed
21:11:48  <George> in the NEWGRF settings window
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21:12:33  <Eddi|zuHause> it's there for me
21:12:45  <Eddi|zuHause> click on "add" and there on "rescan files"
21:12:55  <Alberth> bottom right of the grey 'Available NewGRF files'
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21:15:51  <George> Thank you, I missed the bottom, but the starnge thing happens anyway
21:16:01  <George> The problem is the following
21:17:06  <George> When I change the GRF during gameplay, stop the game and start a new one, the grf does not become updated (it uses the GRF that was loaded on OTTD's start)
21:17:34  <George> Previously it has reloaded GRFs on load or on starting a new game
21:17:48  <George> That was a very useful feature for testing
21:19:01  <Alberth> why not restart openttd every time with a -g mygame.sav option ?
21:19:19  <George> it takes time
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21:19:37  <George> Previously it was not required
21:20:01  <Alberth> tbh, I didn't even know it was changed
21:20:56  <George> looks like it was not changed long ago. last 2 months, imho
21:20:58  <frosch123> George: afaik it reloads the newgrfs from disk when you press the "apply" button in the newgrf window
21:21:21  <Rubidium> unless one selects NewGRFs that are in a tar file
21:21:40  <frosch123> otoh if you reload the savegame it will try to find one with the same checksum
21:21:51  <Zuu> The enhanced drive through bus stops are nice. Unfortunately that means the traditional bus stops loses compared to them.
21:21:54  <George> it does not
21:22:11  <George> The file is in the data folder, not in tar
21:22:47  <frosch123> George: in the newgrf gui the exact path of the file is shown
21:22:59  <frosch123> if you press "apply" it loads that fiel
21:23:25  <Zuu> Though, you can probably use a drive-through as a replacement to the traditional bus stops in most cases now.
21:24:10  <George> It does not. At least action 8
21:24:16  <George> I change action 8
21:24:27  <George> put new file to the data folder
21:24:37  <George> press apply
21:24:52  <George> and get the old value for action 8
21:25:08  <George> R18359
21:25:12  <frosch123> oh, action8 might only be processed on ottd start
21:25:43  <Rubidium> that's quite possible
21:25:43  <George> why?
21:26:57  <frosch123> because you can choose newgrfs from a big list with all the names and descriptions
21:27:45  <George> and why should it prevent apdating action 8 data if the whole GRF is updated?
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21:28:12  <George> confused
21:29:41  <Rubidium> because it's easier to just ignore the action 8 when loading the NewGRFs for 'real' than find the right entry in the NewGRF action8 cache for the purpose of showing that in OpenTTD and update that when 99 out of 100 times it's totally pointless because the NewGRF didn't change
21:30:03  <George> Also, I feel like the grf is also not updated
21:30:35  <George> previously after reloading a save after grf change it was marked blue
21:30:41  <Rubidium> run OpenTTD with -dgrf=9, put some action 'comment' with the new version and test it
21:30:50  <George> Now its green like it was not chnaged
21:34:46  <frosch123> then check the path in the newgrf gui, maybe ottd found a copy of the old version
21:39:41  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r18413 /trunk/src/ (cargo_type.h cargotype.cpp cargotype.h table/cargo_const.h): -Doc: Added doxygen strings for cargo-type related enums, structs, and functions.
21:42:46  <George> frosch123: Should it update md5sum ? Or it is also not updated, same as action 8 data?
21:43:45  <George> BTW, marked not blue, but yellow
21:44:16  <frosch123> i assume none of that information is updated
21:44:27  <Ammler> George: if you change the grf, it might also be possible, it loads an older version e.g. from bananas.
21:44:32  <frosch123> but the path tells you, which file it actually loaded
21:45:05  <George> Ammler: Path tels it loads from DATA floder (as expected)
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21:49:33  <George> So. 1) how can I get information, that a grf was updated from previous load?
21:50:20  <George> After restarting OTTD I get a red message that GRF was changed
21:50:21  *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd
21:50:44  <George> Is there any way to discover it without restarting the OTTD?
21:50:57  <George> On a simple GRF reload
21:51:10  <George> and reloading the save
21:53:08  <frosch123> George: looks like, if you start ottd with "-d grf=1" it prints the action8 as in the file
21:56:31  <George> frosch123: not for me even after pressing apply button
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22:00:40  <frosch123> well, does it print anything
22:01:04  <frosch123> it prints it on the console, i.e. you have to start ottd from a console
22:02:05  <frosch123> dbg: [grf] GRFInfo: Loaded GRFv6 set 52570103 - Generic Tram Set v0.4 (palette: Windows) <- it should print lines like that
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22:02:48  <frosch123> when you press "apply"
22:03:26  <George> Yes, it prints correct data in the console
22:08:14  <_ln> where are the "Asian" and "Jew" buttons in the face dialog?
22:08:44  <Ch0Hag> Genocided.
22:09:10  <Sacro> _ln: slanty eyes and big noses?
22:10:09  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@89.246.161.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:13:26  <_ln> Sacro: i didn't want to imply that, but both of those are ethnic groups that do not fit into "European" nor "African".
22:14:36  <_ln> Ch0Hag: not funny.
22:14:42  <Sacro> I know of white, black and yellow
22:14:46  <Sacro> btu what colour are jews?\
22:15:03  <Sacro> Ch0Hag: you mean they aren't allowed to use DBSet until after 1945?
22:15:13  <Ch0Hag> What about s/until//
22:15:15  <Ch0Hag> oops
22:15:17  <Ch0Hag> s/until//
22:15:47  <Sacro> ?
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22:16:08  <Ch0Hag> They're not allowed to use it after 1945 because they're dead.
22:17:11  <Ch0Hag> Oh and don't forget native americans.
22:17:25  <Ch0Hag> And aboriginees may be black but they're not from Africa.
22:17:31  *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-36-171.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:17:35  *** JeromeBlackridge [~q@user-160v898.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd
22:17:41  <Ch0Hag> The French will want their own group, no doubt.
22:18:02  *** JeromeBlackridge [~q@user-160v898.cable.mindspring.com] has left #openttd []
22:18:12  <Ch0Hag> And Eskimos. They can be all the same hidden behind a couple of types of fur coat.
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22:32:06  <_ln> Ch0Hag: where are you from?
22:32:30  <Ch0Hag> Earth.
22:32:58  <Andel> Ch0Hag Are you sure?
22:33:06  <Ch0Hag> No, but I think so.
22:33:20  <Andel> would you like to take The Test?
22:33:26  <Ch0Hag> Most other people are and I don't recall anything unusual about my beginning.
22:33:54  <Andel> You have to simply answer the question quickly and impulsively
22:33:56  <Andel> ready?
22:34:09  <Ch0Hag> Uh.
22:34:12  <Andel> Ch0Hag do you come from earth?
22:34:18  <Ch0Hag> Yeah I think so.
22:34:22  <Andel> there you go then
22:34:28  <Andel> I conclude you are from Earth
22:34:32  <Andel> Have a nice day.
22:34:33  <Ch0Hag> My body does, anyway.
22:34:49  <Andel> listen to Zernebok Radio - www.zernebok.com/radio/ - for music that's out of this world
22:37:07  *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd
22:38:04  *** Luukland [~Hassan@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
22:38:07  <Luukland> Evenin'
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22:38:56  * planetmaker has also a data flooder
22:39:14  <planetmaker> wrong tab :-P
22:39:49  <Andel> I'm sure
22:39:53  <Andel> tune in to the radio
22:40:05  *** Fugas [~admin@isbprachen.clnet.cz] has joined #openttd
22:40:13  <Andel> listen to Zernebok Radio - www.zernebok.com/radio/ - for music that's out of this world
22:40:39  <Luukland> :S
22:40:47  <Luukland> SPAM of HARMFUL websites
22:41:03  <Andel> I do my best
22:41:04  <Andel> :D
22:41:25  <Fugas> hi all
22:41:42  <Luukland> evenin'
22:41:48  <frosch123> hmm, i expected something more ttd-jazzy
22:41:55  <Andel> on the radio?
22:42:01  <Fugas> I have small questions for openttd developers, is there anybody?
22:42:10  <Luukland> for that you should check out sky.fm/smoothjazz
22:42:10  <Luukland> :)
22:42:20  <Luukland> (Jazzy radio)
22:42:28  <frosch123> usually i am on trancebase.fm
22:42:55  <Andel> I'm doing Zernebok tonight
22:43:03  <Andel> and sorta.... Andel'ing it
22:43:15  <frosch123> yeah, the album says "andel" :)
22:43:39  <Luukland> He probably made that joke like 100 times already
22:43:56  <Andel> "He" might have
22:44:35  <frosch123> what, i am listener no 3 :o
22:44:36  <Illegal_Alien> Andelstein
22:45:04  <Andel> Well, i don't often advertise
22:45:40  <Luukland> Maybe its "shitty" station
22:45:47  <Luukland> with advertisements 24/7
22:48:39  <Andel> Zernebok?
22:49:04  <frosch123> is that orud*ge talking?
22:49:29  <Luukland> nah
22:49:31  <Luukland> can't be
22:49:39  <Andel> it was
22:49:42  <Andel> please re-connect
22:49:46  <Andel> he broke the server
22:49:51  <frosch123> started itself
22:51:03  <frosch123> hmm, i wonder where did i know the voice from :s i guess from the forum meeting advertisement
22:51:24  <Andel> probably
22:51:31  <Andel> I organised reasonable meets :-)
22:54:21  <Fugas> Please can anybody help me little? I have problem. If I ban someone, he's comming back to the server! Why it doesn't work?
22:55:09  <Illegal_Alien> IP change
22:55:18  <Illegal_Alien> i guess :P
22:55:59  <Fugas> I don't believe ALL people comes in few seconds back with changed IP...
22:57:02  <Luukland> How many Ip's are in banlist?
22:57:50  <Fugas> now only 25
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22:58:38  <Luukland> I ban twice the amount every day on my webserver xD
22:58:43  <Luukland> Damn polish spammers
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22:59:03  <Luukland> Maybe ask Rubidium, he must know
23:01:08  <Fugas> hmmm, Rubidium are you there please? or any other developer who can help me?
23:01:51  <Luukland> Ah wait, you say 25 Ip's
23:01:59  <Luukland> that means your banlist is full!
23:02:01  <Luukland> 0_o
23:02:58  *** Luukland [~Hassan@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit []
23:02:59  <Fugas> OMG what? 25 IPs = full banlist? what the hell?
23:03:36  * planetmaker wonders why you have to ban so many people
23:05:43  <Fugas> sometimes I kick about hundered people a day
23:05:53  <Ch0Hag> Because people suck.
23:06:21  <Fugas> so this is bad, why there is so short banlist in this game?
23:06:37  <Andel> because its meant to be a friendly game
23:07:19  <Ch0Hag> So is football.
23:07:25  <Fugas> but if there are evil people blocking and destroying map, they must be kicked or banned
23:07:26  <Ch0Hag> English football.
23:08:59  <Fugas> planetmaker, did you ever provide openttd server?
23:09:24  <planetmaker> how do you mean?
23:09:48  <planetmaker> I run probably one of the best visited ones together with my fellow coopers
23:10:20  <Zuu> Try to ban them using your system firewall instead then.
23:10:52  <Fugas> and 25 IPs banlist is enough for you?
23:11:11  <planetmaker> We have currently 4 people banned
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23:11:27  <planetmaker> But we require a pw available only in IRC
23:12:33  <planetmaker> Which basically means that we don't use OpenTTD's ban system at all. Just an occasional kick
23:12:49  <planetmaker> and for bad cases an IRC ban for our channels
23:13:08  <planetmaker> then they cannot get the password anymore
23:14:24  <Fugas> oh, this is different than free server
23:14:36  <planetmaker> I'm aware though, that it's different to what most people want
23:14:58  <planetmaker> But everyone is free to join. But you need to join IRC
23:15:04  *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C1C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:15:51  <Fugas> sure, and most stupid people which destroy game doesn't know what it is irc
23:16:23  <Zuu> Having the MSN client side by side OpenTTD when playing on the coop servers is quite handy, since that allows for viewing a bigger part of the chat log without having to pull down the console in OpenTTD.
23:16:30  <Zuu>  /MSN/IRC/
23:17:59  <Zuu> Also you are then free to use whatever IRC client you are confortable with.
23:20:30  <Fugas> okay, thank you guys, I think ban people using firewall will be the best for me, if ingame banlist is so useless
23:21:17  <Rubidium> Fugas: use a trunk version of OpenTTD; it has unlimited (or limited by memory) ban lists
23:22:06  <Zuu> Which has the additional benefit of providing more trunk-servers for users.
23:22:48  <Zuu> Fugas: On what OS are you on?
23:23:28  <Fugas> Rubidium: thanks! should I use it only on server and clients should use normal clients?
23:23:36  <Fugas> Zuu: debian lenny
23:23:47  <Rubidium> clients must always run the same version as the server
23:23:53  <Zuu> Ok, then it should be fairly easy to make an auto-update script for you.
23:24:36  <Zuu> If you are able to get in touch with dih, he might even be willing to share his scripts with you.
23:25:06  <Fugas> dih?
23:25:08  <Zuu> finger.openttd.org tells you everything you need if you want to go ahead with scripting.
23:25:18  <Zuu> dihedral
23:25:42  <planetmaker> I guess you could also look at the autostart script or so
23:25:56  <Zuu> He used to run a 24/7 trunk server that updated every night just after each nightly was released.
23:26:26  <planetmaker> Was actually quite well visited
23:26:40  <Zuu> Autostart: http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD_Updaters#autostart
23:26:45  <Zuu> (at the bottom)
23:26:53  <Terkhen> good night
23:26:55  *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@72.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...]
23:27:33  <Fugas> ok, nice, thanks a lot
23:27:43  <planetmaker> and he employed some IRC admins, so that there were people around who could take care of things
23:27:54  <Rubidium> another option is 'just' wait till the next major release
23:28:02  <planetmaker> (he controlled his server via an IRC-openttd bridge)
23:28:02  <Zuu> Using the compile it yourself variant is probably easier to script. Just "svn up && make" :-)
23:28:03  <Fugas> I will learn about it cause I'm openttd noob
23:28:56  <Fugas> I have IRC bridge too, but not enough people to check it 24/7
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23:33:22  <Zuu> Fugas: What is the name of your server?
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