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Log for #openttd on 15th December 2009:
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00:01:03  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18506 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#3368]: no error message was created for the first fatal NewGRF error.
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00:07:33  <Eddi|zuHause> he was a victim of the climate change
00:08:04  *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbabe94.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:08:19  <PeterT> Aren't we all?
00:08:48  <Eddi|zuHause> he in particular, which is why the climate summit was moved to denmark
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00:18:18  <t> Eddi|zuHause: you know about climategate?
00:19:12  <t> if not, google it and read! even those mails and files, they are interesting read...
00:19:12  <Rubidium> t: there's lies, damn lies and statistics. That's all you need to know
00:20:25  <planetmaker> and the owners of climategate...
00:21:48  <t> Rubidium: yes, nice quote, especially if those statistics are fixed to hide the decline :)
00:22:06  <t> (google 'hide the decline' )
00:22:27  <Rubidium> but is there a decline?
00:22:48  <Rubidium> that's the whole thing about my quote. It's statistics, thus you don't know
00:22:56  <t> well, every morning there is global worming... followed by global cooling in the night
00:23:10  <t> i see global warming mostly working in gay clubs
00:23:27  <Rubidium> yes, and I'm vegetarian while not eating meat
00:23:39  <planetmaker> T: especially "global"... when it comes to day and night cycles...
00:23:53  <t> planetmaker: ok, so take winter and summer :)
00:24:18  <t> (thats the level of lies blood and gore are pushing)
00:24:58  <fjb> Exxon et al spent million for people who denied the global warming against all facts. Now some conspiracy theorists are doing it for free.
00:25:10  <t> you are in the night denial crowd!
00:25:11  <planetmaker> T: even then... summer and winter isn't global either. FAIL!
00:25:20  <t> planetmaker: tell that to all gore :)
00:25:35  <t> he is comparing summer to winter :)
00:25:36  <planetmaker> obviously I've to tell you
00:25:57  <t> ice is growing, polar bears are breeding well...
00:26:04  <planetmaker> do they?
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00:26:19  <t> planetmaker: check yourself :)
00:26:24  <planetmaker> and THEY are watching you.
00:26:26  <Rubidium> t: still, what's the method of showing the decline? Statistics. Statistics are by definition lies. As such both parties are lieing. Conclusion (by deduction)... there's no decline and no global warming
00:26:32  <planetmaker> T: I did
00:26:50  <t> planetmaker: in summer? :)
00:26:56  <planetmaker> yes
00:27:06  <fjb> Still they do. Still there is ice left. But it's less each year. Some glaciers are still growing, but most are rapidly shrinking.
00:27:16  <t> Rubidium: well, but then why co2 taxes to fund global government?
00:27:40  <t> fjb: just look how ice is growin in last years
00:28:07  <Eddi|zuHause> of course it's not getting warmer during a cyclical decline, the worries are about the next cyclical warming when it's not getting colder during the decline phase due to man-made warming
00:28:08  <fjb> Lokk how is shrinking. I have seen it in the alps.
00:28:09  <Rubidium> t: yes, and that growing ice is not good for my power consumption :(
00:28:11  <planetmaker> T: then show me that satilite image sequence over the last two decades which show ice on average growing!
00:28:38  <planetmaker> (images taken at the same day of the year, mind it)
00:28:55  <Rubidium> ooh, time to get out the julian calendar
00:29:13  <planetmaker> he :-) better take the modified julian calender
00:29:18  <planetmaker> easier comparison
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00:29:32  <fjb> We already had some cases of Malaria in Souther Germany.
00:29:32  <t> Eddi|zuHause:  man-made warming? :) lol i love that phrase :)
00:29:56  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you giggle at the hidden gay reference... what are you? 12?
00:30:31  * Sacro sniggers
00:30:37  <t> Eddi|zuHause: why do you attack me?
00:30:41  <planetmaker> :-P
00:31:02  <Eddi|zuHause> because reason obviously doeasn't work
00:31:26  <fjb> It is easy to belive that mankind could not change what god made. But thinking about what really happens is more difficuld. That is why people ofter prefer beliving over thinking.
00:31:40  <t> Eddi|zuHause: well :) tell me about that. i was studying computer science... that includes logic and higher math...
00:31:44  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I reccomend http://www.amazon.de/Fundamentalisten-diskutiert-verlieren-Anleitung-subversiven/dp/3406511244
00:31:52  <Rubidium> fjb: on that point... it's God's will
00:32:02  <Rubidium> or whatever the phrase is in English
00:32:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand these "god made it" people
00:32:32  <Rubidium> t: but how can you prove a decline if the data has been destroyed?
00:32:36  *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77CFB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
00:32:53  <Rubidium> ^ that's what happens if you don't have faith in God :)
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00:32:58  <Eddi|zuHause> global warming is clearly described in the bible
00:33:24  <Rubidium> yes... quickly... how many sheep do we have to put on that Ark
00:33:37  <t> Rubidium: i am talking about last few years (decline)...
00:33:53  <Rubidium> t: but then again... statistics
00:33:56  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: yexo * r18507 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Change [FS#3340]: move the 'check online content' button from the AI list window to the AI configuration window
00:34:01  <fjb> The bible is the excuse for destroying our world. It's gods will. He said that manking stands above all.
00:34:04  <t> btw 15 years ago my wife was on university, they tried to scare them with visions of 'global cooling'
00:34:04  <Eddi|zuHause> it says right there: mankind didn't use its ressources respectfully, so a flood came
00:34:16  <Rubidium> however you want something to be explained, just draw a different line and there's your proof
00:34:17  <t> its old 'conspiracy theory' about climate change :)
00:35:17  <planetmaker> t: you notice? "They". They watch you. They fool you. They control you.
00:35:18  <Rubidium> ah well... the whole climate stuff is really minor if you compare it with the real problematic stuff
00:35:18  <fjb> So why did Exxon have to spend billions to hide the facs of warming when the warming were lies?
00:35:27  <t> planetmaker: speak for yourself :)
00:35:43  <t> Rubidium: agreed
00:35:46  <planetmaker> I don't claim that "they" did this or "they" did that
00:35:47  <Rubidium> fjb: what facts? They're statistics
00:36:03  <fjb> In context of the universe the earth really is not important.
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00:36:41  <t> its like deaths by terrorists - compared to deaths by lighting or mistake of a doc -- or even by side effects when people take pills (correctly).
00:36:49  <planetmaker> Yeah... one planet complains to the other: "oh, I feel so bad. I have homo sapiens". Replies the other: "Don't worry. That passes."
00:37:32  <t> Rubidium: you can create your own statistics :) - which you can believe in.
00:37:53  <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: "in context of world population, my food is really not important" -> "so i should stop eating food?" is the wrong conclusion
00:38:26  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no, it's the right one... the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few
00:39:06  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: Just stop worrying. Nothing is important. Or stop eating. That makes you stop worring. Wo cares when mankind dies?
00:39:13  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you now planetjokemaker?
00:39:24  <planetmaker> yup ;-P
00:39:46  <planetmaker> mind they're usually bad and old :-P
00:39:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess your kind makes jokes like this often ;)
00:42:54  <t> if you believe that humans produce too much CO2, do me a favor and stop breathing first. :)
00:43:13  <planetmaker> stop farting. methane is worse
00:43:18  <PeterT> Does anyone have sys-op access to the wiki?
00:43:30  <Rubidium> and if you believe chopping down trees causes much less CO2 adsorbition stop breathing too ;)
00:43:31  <PeterT> The link to the forums on the front page is borken
00:43:32  <t> planetmaker: i agree on farts
00:43:35  <fjb> Don't go to Mc Donalds.
00:44:15  <Eddi|zuHause> t: the issue with "going green" is not "don't do X anymore" but "keep doing X with using fewer ressources"
00:44:46  <Yexo> PeterT: fixed
00:44:53  <t> yes,  from now you can only breath 1/5 of the air you used...
00:44:58  <PeterT> Thanks Yexo
00:45:01  <PeterT> :-)
00:45:20  <Rubidium> t: fine, but then I'm going to discard the 80% I'm not going to use anyway first :)
00:45:24  <t> so either stop breathing or do a genocide :)
00:46:04  <fjb> We already tried that.
00:47:23  <t> we were always joked about taxes on breathing - and its finally here :) (i was living uder CCCP controlled commie regime and i remember those jokes from those times)
00:49:04  <fjb> What do we learn from that? Eastern Europ was green under the comunists.
00:49:19  * Rubidium also ponders what's the concept of burning bio-mass
00:49:32  <t> they call it holocaust
00:49:46  <t> fjb: no, we were RED
00:49:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: depriving the next scentient race of their fossile fuels
00:50:00  <t> its the same style, just another color :)
00:50:11  * planetmaker yawns and shuffles off to bed. Good night folks
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00:50:18  <t> gn! sleep well
00:50:19  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: well, aren't fossil fuels bio-mass too?
00:50:29  <t> also you are biomass
00:50:33  <t> google robot EATR
00:50:33  <Rubidium> maybe it's a bit older, but still...
00:50:34  <t> :)
00:50:36  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly, and if we burn them now, they won't get it
00:50:40  <fjb> So destroying the world is really freedom. Anything else is evel comunistic.
00:50:57  <t> fjb: i didnt call for destruction
00:51:06  <t> dont put that into my mouth
00:51:08  <fjb> And holocaust is what we did, not them.
00:51:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: btw. i found a use for your beloved list
00:51:26  <t> we all have part in the history
00:51:31  <fjb> t: You do all the time in this discussion.
00:51:55  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: which list?
00:52:13  <Eddi|zuHause> the one that starts with an "i" and has famous names on it :p
00:52:20  <t> no, only when you throw in climate change... like fact, even when climategate showed its a lie...
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00:52:35  <Rubidium> ah, that one
00:52:53  <Rubidium> am I think what you're thinking?
00:53:13  <Eddi|zuHause> how do we get 200 flamingos into the car?
00:53:38  <Rubidium> with a car crusher?
00:54:29  <Rubidium> or do you mean the Central Afrian Republic, because then it'd be easy
00:54:31  <Eddi|zuHause> did you know that flamingos turn pink from the stuff they are eating?
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00:54:57  <fjb> t: The not used date showed an even faster warmth. But it was left out of the statistics because it was unreliable. That was the "trick" the scientists used.
00:55:39  <t> fjb: nice story, thanks now i can sleep well
00:55:59  <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: removing the results that are the furthest from the average is a common technique in statistics
00:56:04  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yes I did know that
00:56:22  <fjb> Climagate ofcourse makes up another story. But who pays them?
00:56:25  <Rubidium> and they're not getting pink from the shrimp, but from the blueish algae they eat
00:56:52  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: I know. You know. The climagate people don't.
00:56:54  <t> And editing all results many times? and deleting emails and data after FOI request? and mobbing scientists who do not agree?
00:57:26  <t> fjb: its admitted that those emails are real
00:57:36  <t> read them
00:57:50  <t> read comments in the code(!)
00:58:31  <Eddi|zuHause> you do know the fundamental theorem of statistics
00:58:49  <fjb> First look who paied whom for tellling the press what. Then come back and complain about some emails.
00:58:51  <Eddi|zuHause> do never trust a statistics that you did not forge yourself
00:59:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i should really start forging statistics
00:59:41  <t> what are u trying to say? that we will never know truth?
00:59:54  <t> are you proud of not being able to see truth?
00:59:58  <t> thats sad
01:00:11  <fjb> "Scientitsts" where paid to tell the press that there is no warmth. Some of them were even not real scientists.
01:00:28  <t> fjb: its the other way around and those mails and files PROVE IT
01:00:42  <t> they got tens of millions $$$ for lying about warming
01:00:52  <t> and they KNEW its cooling...
01:01:03  <fjb> And who paid them?
01:01:33  <t> those questions are good... but you have to LOOK into the case deeper.
01:01:57  <t> i cant do it for you :) but there are many many web pages now about it
01:02:12  <fjb> Just answer that single question. Who would spend billions on generating a wrming hype?
01:02:23  <t> the one who will get much more ?
01:02:27  <Eddi|zuHause> "it's on a web page, it must be true!
01:02:31  <fjb> Who is that?
01:02:39  <t> Eddi|zuHause: please :)
01:02:55  <fjb> Who will earn more than billions from a warming hype?
01:03:02  <t> fjb: did you heard EU president talking about global governance?
01:03:09  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, please... it is proven that we are in a cooling phase
01:03:23  <t> and did you see gore getting hundreds millions already from the scam?
01:03:25  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is that it is not cooling as much as it is supposed to
01:03:58  <t> Eddi|zuHause: problem is that you believe to someone who is not trustworthy
01:03:58  <Eddi|zuHause> the real (potential) catastrophe is only coming in 100 years!
01:04:07  <lugo> http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2008/07/how_to_talk_to_a_sceptic.php :)
01:04:12  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody is trustworthy...
01:04:25  <t> Eddi|zuHause: even you?
01:04:38  <t> so why are u trying to tell me something :)
01:04:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, especially $random_guy_on_irc
01:05:00  <t> i am not asking you to believe me - just read about the case
01:05:23  <t> its not rocket science
01:05:29  <t> its much easier
01:05:48  <Eddi|zuHause> actually, rocket science is one of the easiest parts of science
01:06:07  <t> well :) i know something about turbulences :) which is not that easy to compute
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01:06:20  <Eddi|zuHause> the rocket propulsion system was developed during war times in caves...
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01:06:38  <t> even americans needed nazi scientists to make some good rockets
01:07:15  <Rubidium> t: do you even have a clue how to model the weather, leave alone weather forecasts?
01:07:16  <fjb> They needed German scientists. Too bad that many of them were Nazis at that time.
01:07:17  <Eddi|zuHause> you are overgeneralizing
01:07:26  <Eddi|zuHause> they needed GERMAN scientists
01:07:35  <t> lol eQualizer  :))
01:07:36  <Eddi|zuHause> not all germans were automatically nazis
01:07:40  <t> eh i mean Eddi|zuHause
01:07:50  <t> but those were :)
01:08:02  <t> those taken by project paperclip
01:08:32  <Eddi|zuHause> and we all know that the americans actually lost the rocket race
01:08:35  <fjb> Not all were Nazis. Some where. THe USA didn't care.
01:09:01  <t> well especially those nazi doctors from concentration camps WERE nazis to the core
01:09:08  <Eddi|zuHause> the russians, who "only" got the low level technicans after the americans left eastern germany, had the more successful rocket program
01:09:13  <fjb> And we all know that Russion space technology is more reliable.
01:09:31  <t> lol i need to take break :)
01:09:53  <fjb> t: That Nazi doctors did not build rockets.
01:09:59  <Eddi|zuHause> t: and actually, the USA had one of the strongest nazi movements in the "western world"
01:10:05  <t> fjb: you know about project paperclip? :)
01:10:15  <t> Eddi|zuHause: yes, agreed
01:10:24  * t afks
01:10:54  <fjb> t lost anyway by godwin.
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01:30:01  <fjb> dbset 1.0 will be playable in subtropic climate only.
01:30:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, when it gets released in 2138
01:30:41  <Rubidium> haha... will it ever be released?
01:31:19  <Eddi|zuHause> of course the world will end 100 years prior to that...
01:33:03  <fjb> The people at Bell knew when the world would come to an end.
01:34:23  <Eddi|zuHause> over the last 100 years, the world ended like two dozen times already...
01:35:21  <fjb> Yes, but there can not be any other reason for making the time counter only 32 bit.
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01:36:46  <Eddi|zuHause> it's even worse... it's 32bit signed
01:37:04  <Eddi|zuHause> so effectively 31bit
01:37:24  <Eddi|zuHause> and have you ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy? ;)
01:39:08  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18508 /trunk/src/ (core/math_func.hpp rail_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#3372]: if a rail station class had less data than capacity it would try to set a negative position
01:39:20  <fjb> You ought to belive.
01:39:32  <Eddi|zuHause> funny story about statistics
01:39:43  <Eddi|zuHause> the weather forecast is 70% accurate
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01:39:50  <Rubidium> but isn't the overflow in 2038, not 2138?
01:40:11  <Eddi|zuHause> a random person on the street saying "tomorrow the weather is going to be like today" is 65% accurate
01:40:38  <fjb> Yes, that is why the world will end 100 years before the release of dbset 1.0.
01:41:06  <Eddi|zuHause> so all the effort for weather forecasting only increases accuracy by 5%
01:41:43  <fjb> Kr?ht der Hahn auf dem Mist ?ndert sich das Wetter oder es bleibt wie es ist.
01:42:00  <Rubidium> my weather forecast for the spring is usually 100% accurate: tomorrow's weather is shit
01:42:17  <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: well, that's a tautology
01:42:24  <fjb> My forecast is: No snow here next summer.
01:42:25  <Rubidium> either it rains, or it doesn't and I get hay fever
01:42:39  <fjb> Me too.
01:42:46  <Rubidium> anyway, either is shitty weather
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01:43:17  <fjb> We should better stay at home and read conspiracy theories.
01:43:23  <Eddi|zuHause> like the scottish people say: "if you can see the top of the hills, it's going to rain soon
01:43:36  <fjb> :-)
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01:44:30  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the cause for hay fever is not playing enough in the dirt as a child
01:45:59  <Rubidium> I blame my mother
01:46:18  <Eddi|zuHause> funny thing about the human immune system. if it is underoccupied, it searches for new things to fight
01:46:59  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like the americans, if they have no enemies who threaten to attack them, they create an "axis of evil" by themselves
01:47:00  <Rubidium> and it seriously annoys me
01:47:41  <fjb> Me too.
01:47:54  <Eddi|zuHause> while the soviets were around, everything was peachy... afterwards, it started to go down the drain
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01:49:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm looking forward to the next cold war between USA and China
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01:50:20  <Eddi|zuHause> it'll get interesting when China starts to support Iran ;)
01:50:34  <Eddi|zuHause> or Syria ;)
01:51:59  <fjb> USA and China can not really have a cold war. They are like conjoined twins now.
01:53:00  <Eddi|zuHause> there are other funny scenarios
01:53:41  <Eddi|zuHause> like political collapse of pakistan and india invading the area, then iran feeling threatened
01:54:23  <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: the cold war doesn't need to be an economical one
01:55:40  <fjb> But it hinders economy very much.
01:55:47  <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: also the question is whether europe manages to get a 3rd independent superpower, or instead stays the puppy of the USA
01:56:14  <fjb> I dislike both options.
01:56:18  <Eddi|zuHause> currently it leans towards the latter
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05:40:28  * roboboy ponders what version of OTTD to download, nightly or stable
05:56:16  <_teeone> stable has more multiplayer games
05:56:25  <_teeone> nightly if you want to see/test the latest and greatest
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07:14:04  <roboboy> is there a list of advanced settings that must be set before a game is started?
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09:10:51  <bartavelle> et bonjour
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10:31:12  <TrueBrain> Yexo: fixed
10:31:38  <peter1138> boring
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10:45:53  <mirQus> Hi!
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10:46:31  <Rubidium> hi :) & bye :(
10:46:32  <mirQus> Is there a developers mailing list for OpenTTD or only the forums?
10:46:52  <roboboy> is there a list of advanced settings that must be set before a game is started?
10:48:44  <mirQus> If there's none, where/who can I send a patch to?
10:49:43  <dihedral> mirQus, paste.openttd.org
10:49:57  <dihedral> roboboy, settings are created if not present, and default values used
10:51:26  <peter1138> bugs.openttd.org
10:51:33  <peter1138> there was a list, but it's not used
10:52:03  <dihedral> yeah, or one can create an fs ticket right away
10:52:04  <mirQus> bugs. then. :)
10:52:15  <roboboy> ok
10:52:17  <dihedral> though i thought it might be worth looking at the patch first :-P
10:52:27  <mirQus> But no bugs I have, only a preliminary version of a feature. :>
10:52:35  <dihedral> see
10:52:54  <dihedral> mirQus, what's the feature
10:53:20  <peter1138> bugs. handles features and patches too
10:53:32  <roboboy> I was hoping to know so that I could easily skim over the list of settings for the ones that can't be set after my server  is started
10:53:40  <mirQus> Train orders that modify the train in a depot.
10:53:43  <dihedral> still, somone has to go around and read... close them :-P
10:54:05  <mirQus> Like 'leave N wagons, take N wagons'.
10:54:22  <dihedral> and does the order then delete itself?
10:54:25  <mirQus> No.
10:54:39  <dihedral> so everytime the order is hit....
10:54:44  <dihedral>  and in the end you have just the loc
10:54:54  <dihedral> very ... nice
10:54:58  <mirQus> But you can add another, that will take other wagons. :)
10:55:08  <dihedral> ...
10:55:18  <mirQus> So, every time a train go to some depot, it can switch wagons.
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10:55:41  <mirQus> You can use depots like a mini railway siding.
10:55:58  <dihedral> and... must the wagons be present in the depot?
10:56:06  <mirQus> Yes.
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10:56:26  <dihedral> and does the oder only count when the train is in the depot, or will the train specifically go to any depot for that order
10:56:39  <dihedral> what happens when no waggons are in the depot
10:56:57  <dihedral> what happens in a network of 500+ trains, and shared orders
10:57:02  <mirQus> You need to add a order to go to depot and modify it to include a train modification instructions.
10:57:02  <dihedral> and trains going to various depots
10:57:43  <dihedral> howabout not using the order list, but creating a new maintenance list?
10:58:02  <dihedral> and using sell and buy?
10:58:30  <mirQus> Hmm. I haven't noticed a maintenance lists anywhere (except maybe autoreplace thing).
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10:58:35  <Luukland> Bonjour :)
10:58:56  <dihedral> i did mention the word "create" :-P
10:59:01  <mirQus> A new thing like it might be even better that what I have, but that's a lot more work I suppose.
10:59:12  <dihedral> hehe
10:59:14  <dihedral> yep
10:59:18  <dihedral> probably
10:59:38  <Luukland> Work is relative ;)
10:59:48  <Luukland> Its like icecream, some times you like it, other times not
10:59:53  <mirQus> The ultimate idea is to have locomotives pick wagons from normal tracks. :>
11:00:36  <mirQus> But THAT's a lot work. ;)
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11:11:10  <mirQus> Ok. FS#3373
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11:15:50  <mirQus_> In case you want to look at it, I opened FS#3373 with link to the patch.
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11:17:20  <mirQus> Hmm. Net hickup. ;)
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11:17:43  <Goulp> Net toyage
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11:19:04  <dihedral> in case of an entry at bugs. please upload the patch!!
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11:19:19  <Forked> hm
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