Log for #openttd on 18th February 2010:
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00:15:04  <aber> 1.0.0-RC1/src/ai/ai_config.cpp:19: error: invalid use of incomplete type ‘struct AIConfig’
00:15:05  <aber> 1.0.0-RC1/src/ai/../settings_type.h:387: error: forward declaration of ‘struct AIConfig’
00:16:38  <Rubidium> huh?
00:16:53  <Rubidium> what configure flags are you using?
00:17:43  <aber> ./configure --enable-universal --static-icu
00:18:11  <Rubidium> hmm, then I have no clue
00:18:57  <FauxFaux> Surely you mean "What odd compiler or compiler options are you using"?
00:19:17  <Rubidium> although the error seems totally wrong to me; ai_config.cpp includes ai_config.hpp that defines AIConfig
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00:22:19  <SmatZ> Rubidium: it includes settings_type.h before ai_config.hpp
00:22:53  <Rubidium> SmatZ: nevertheless, AIConfig should be defined at that point (as per inclusion of ai_config.hpp)
00:23:26  <aber> wait, maybe i did something stupid...
00:23:58  <SmatZ> Rubidium: indeed it looks strange
00:24:41  <Rubidium> unless Apple is using AIConfig in their APIs now
00:24:52  <SmatZ> hehe
00:24:53  <Rubidium> although then you'd probably get another error
00:24:56  <SmatZ> wouldn't be for the first time
00:25:02  <Rubidium> maybe they define AI_CONFIG_H
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00:25:37  <SmatZ> AI_CONFIG_HPP
00:25:52  <Rubidium> same thing :)
00:26:04  <SmatZ> :)
00:26:21  <SmatZ> hmm
00:26:31  <SmatZ> --static-icu compiles fine for me
00:26:36  <SmatZ> I am PC
00:26:42  <SmatZ> so...
00:26:47  <SmatZ> :-P @ aber
00:26:59  <Rubidium> SmatZ: no, you are Linux... "I am PC" implies Windows
00:27:32  <SmatZ> hehe :)
00:27:53  <SmatZ> sad, but true
00:29:01  <Rubidium> nevertheless, nothing has changed in ai_config.* not settings_type.h since I've last ran trunk through my OSX compiler
00:29:58  <SmatZ> "it worked in the past" doesn't help much in OSX world
00:30:38  <Rubidium> and "it works in my self-compiled-from-apple-sources-with-patches-to-make-it-actually-compile compiler" isn't work anything...
00:30:51  <SmatZ> yeah :(
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00:48:20  <aber> I'm a mac and i compiled OpenTTD (4 times)
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00:49:09  <Rubidium> I'm a Linux and I compiled a compiler that makes Mac binaries for OpenTTD dozens of times
00:49:45  <Rubidium> too bad that compiler is kinda slow
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00:51:43  <Eddi|zuHause> better slow than a mac :p
00:53:11  <Rubidium> what annoys me most is that they messed around with keyboard 'shortcuts'
00:53:33  <Rubidium> e.g. using screen + irssi via ssh with apple's terminal is really annoying (for me)
00:53:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what that means
00:53:58  <Rubidium> whereas the same with putty on windows works just like it does here
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00:59:55  <aber> like the Windows key is control or something?
01:01:35  <Rubidium> for some reason pagedown/pageup forces scrolls the console instead of sending the keycode, so you need pagedown/up with some other key to make it behave as if you were using it in a text editor
01:02:35  <Rubidium> and something was up with alt too
01:02:54  <ashb> Rubidium: the pgup behaviour can be adjusted in prefs
01:03:07  <ashb> as can alt. "Use option as meta key"
01:03:22  <PeterT_> Rubidium, what is "Patch testing in CF"?
01:03:31  <PeterT_> what does "CF" stand for?
01:03:36  <Eddi|zuHause> compile farm
01:03:43  <PeterT_> thank you
01:03:56  <Rubidium> ashb: ofcourse it can be changed, but who am I to change the settings of someone else's mac?
01:04:05  <ashb> a joker? :)
01:04:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: install linux on it ;)
01:04:55  <Eddi|zuHause> if you set up the right desktop skins, the person might never notice :)
01:05:43  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: nah, point-and-drool would probably not work anymore, as would their i<whatever>
01:06:38  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... what can be done to make a (slow) system more responsive while copying large files?
01:06:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i tried changing the scheduler, but that doesn't seem to have an effect
01:07:10  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: ionice?
01:07:27  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i never figured out how to use that
01:07:52  <Rubidium> ionice -c 3 -p <pid> (makes it use idle)
01:07:53  <Eddi|zuHause> and especially make that apply to all copying processes automatically...
01:08:08  <OwenS> Incidentally, heard of how slow the scheduler is in Linux kernels < 2.6.32? Apparently theyve fixed a number of bugs which half the runtime of x264 by half, which is very impressive considering x264 is utterly CPU bound
01:09:12  <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: i can't update the kernel
01:09:24  <kd5pbo> Eddi|zuHause: why not?
01:09:34  <Eddi|zuHause> ati driver with old card
01:09:35  <Rubidium> OwenS: lots and lots can be won by reducing cache pressure
01:09:52  <kd5pbo> Eddi|zuHause: Ah.
01:10:08  <OwenS> Rubidium: My understanding is just lots of suboptimal decisions in the beast that is CFS.
01:10:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19158 /trunk/src/string.cpp: -Fix (r19149): MSVC 64 bits compile warning
01:10:32  <PeterT_> Where do you get reports for warnings like this?
01:10:48  <glx> CF logs
01:11:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19159 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix (r19151): configure gave a warning about a broken expression
01:11:18  <PeterT_> are those available online?
01:11:38  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
01:11:40  <glx> yes, with the binaries and pdb
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01:13:19  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: so, how do i ionice all instances of dolphin that i start by any means possible from now until forever, without thinking about it?
01:13:57  <Rubidium> no clue
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01:18:51  <Eddi|zuHause> about the ati driver... apparently they managed to patch the old driver to work with new kernels, but not with new x servers, so i can't just run a dist upgrade
01:19:17  <Eddi|zuHause> and the last time i tried mixing distributions it went horribly wrong...
01:19:23  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Ouch. Get a new graphics card? :p
01:19:39  <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: not for this computer...
01:19:42  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: dist-upgrade as in apt-get?
01:19:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: as in "zypper dup"
01:20:18  <Rubidium> if so: X in debian unstable/testing is too new for ATI's drivers
01:20:36  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i said...
01:21:24  <Rubidium> well, old driver on new X != new driver on new X
01:21:46  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, it doesn't work...
01:22:00  <Eddi|zuHause> and the radeon driver is useless...
01:22:41  <Rubidium> at least not better than ATI's driver
01:22:49  <aber> Nvidia the way it's meant to be played
01:23:06  <Eddi|zuHause> no, for the cases i tested, it is really unusable
01:23:06  <Rubidium> I prefer Intel for GPU :)
01:24:36  <Wizzleby> exactly what s the definition of 'old' savegames that building without liblzo2 will render incompatible?
01:24:52  <Wizzleby> like, before N.N.N
01:25:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Wizzleby: something around 0.3, i believe
01:25:36  <Wizzleby> Eddi|zuHause: wow, *really* old then :)
01:25:52  <OwenS> Rubidium: I hate Intel GPUs. Coding apps which work on them is a nighmare
01:26:03  <Rubidium> IIRC even before 0.2 :)
01:26:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know if the title game is affected
01:26:36  <Rubidium> OwenS: but the linux driver is far superior (and I can't be bothered by apps that use the GPU)
01:26:40  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it isn't
01:26:41  <Chrill> old original TT savegames doesn't run in OpenTTd, right?
01:26:51  <Rubidium> Chrill: they can be loaded
01:27:05  <Chrill> ah
01:27:07  <Chrill> =)
01:27:07  <OwenS> Rubidium: To nVIDIA's? Nah. And nVIDIA's has great H.264/VC-1/MPEG-2 acceleration as well
01:27:29  <Rubidium> OwenS: yet binary blobs and such
01:27:37  <OwenS> So? They work :P
01:28:06  <OwenS> And at least, unlike Intel, they don't go "Were going to arbitrarily cap support at OpenGL 1.4 for these cards"...
01:28:07  <Rubidium> the fact that Intel's drivers are IN the kernel tree says quite a lot about their quality
01:28:27  <thingwath> Recent intel driver can, at least, provide very reliable suspend & resume. Beat that. :)
01:28:33  <OwenS> Rubidium: The percentage of the driver which is in the kernel is between 1 and 5% ;-)
01:29:19  <Rubidium> OwenS: yet the percentage of bugs I can report with the nvidia/ati driver is 0
01:30:08  <Rubidium> aber: 1.0.0-RC1 compiles fine with the compiler from the compile farm
01:30:32  <OwenS> Rubidium: I've never had a crash I could attribute to nVIDIA. In fact, most of the time I've experienced crashes, it's been because some distro decided to load nv or noveau, both of which crash my machine...
01:30:44  <aber> Rubidium: Don't worry. i did something stupid.
01:31:02  <aber> compiles fine...
01:31:36  <thingwath> OwenS: Anyway, what you mean by 1 to 5%? i915 drm part in the kernel is almost as large as intel X driver.
01:31:46  <Eddi|zuHause> since when is "doesn't crash" a criterium for "not a bug"?
01:31:54  <OwenS> thingwath: 90% of the driver is libGL
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01:32:33  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: The track record for reliability is significantly higher for me than with the open source alternatives. Which crash 100% of the time, 100% reproducably on my hardware...
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01:40:34  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, if somebody has an AGP graphocs card that os supported by the mew drovers amd os wprth öess tham the value of my entire computer...
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01:40:59  <aber> sleepy time?
01:41:05  <kd5pbo> Or too much beer.
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01:41:36  <Eddi|zuHause> offset keyboard
01:41:43  <kd5pbo> Or that.
01:42:21  <Eddi|zuHause> just shift some right hand characters by one ;)
01:48:18  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Whats the value of your computer?
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02:00:02  <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: if you don't count the monitor and the extra hard drivesm, negligible
02:02:05  <SpComb^> hmm.. trying to track cargodist and do builds off the 1.0 branch isn't an idea that's going to work very well, I presume
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03:19:25  <SpComb^> mass confusing as usual
03:19:32  <SpComb^> *confusion
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04:13:41  <roboboy> does make bundle automatically create a Win32 bundle if no parameters are specified?
04:23:01  <SpComb^> perhaps read the makefile and find out, it isn't very complicated
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04:35:29  <DaleStan> planetmaker: Do we really need an Action2Railtypes page? Beyond changing all instances of 0B to 10 and all instances of "cargo" to "railtype", how does it differ from Action2Cargos?
04:36:52  <DaleStan> Oh. And the version availability comment.
04:40:54  <DaleStan> planetmaker: Reading through it some more: Why is it not recommended to define several sets of sprites in a single action 1 and then attach each set to a separate action2? ("it's recommended to use<loadtypes> = 00 00") And must it be documented as legal to have any nument1/nument2 other than 00 00? If so, why?
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06:15:24  <roboboy> it seems very quiet around here
06:16:52  <kd5pbo> Yes.
06:17:58  <thingwath> I hear some noise from the trams here, and also the high school across the street (even though there shouldn't be many people yet). :o)
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11:22:47  <roboboy> hello
11:28:23  <SmatZ> morning roboboy
11:28:50  <SmatZ> roboboy: have, by any chance, solved ?
11:29:46  <roboboy> I havent heard anything about it. I can also try it if it is needed by the TTDP devs
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11:36:11  <roboboy> whats the URL for the mercurial repository?
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11:44:27  <SmatZ> roboboy:
11:44:53  <roboboy> thanx
11:51:26  <roboboy> whats the best way to work out the mercurial equivelant of a SVN revision?
11:52:20  <blathijs> Don't the commit logs have the svn revision in them?
11:52:37  <roboboy> I see
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11:53:33  <roboboy> unless tortoise hg is broken I get an eror for when I try to do a clone
11:53:56  <roboboy> I get a 404 eror
11:54:56  <peter1138> you can't clone that
11:55:03  <peter1138> you want
11:55:04  <planetmaker> <-- clone that
11:55:41  <roboboy> ah
11:56:46  <roboboy> thankyou
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11:58:08  <roboboy> now the next thing is to try and get a 64 Bit Windows build out of Visual Studio Proffesional. there isn't an option in the project or atleast I can't see it
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12:00:30  <Rubidium> at the top there's a dropdown that says win32, change that to x64
12:00:56  <Rubidium> if the dropdown isn't there, then you're likely not using MSVC professional *or* you messed up the install
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12:03:18  <roboboy> aha
12:03:49  <roboboy> but I can not select it in the project properties where I set my include and lib settings
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12:06:43  <roboboy> grr tortoise is a pain
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12:10:05  <Eddi|zuHause> it's so funny, i can steer the head of my cat with my mouse :p
12:10:06  <peter1138> yes
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12:25:09  <roboboy> do I run patch inside the folder containing the source?
12:26:43  <planetmaker> peter1138, are there conditions when for railtypes more than one load type will be used? For example when using var42?
12:27:14  <planetmaker> the number of loading type otho can (must?) always be 0, right?
12:27:38  <peter1138> no
12:27:56  <peter1138> you always need one set, the loading/loaded type is irrelevant
12:28:38  <planetmaker> Can I define for a good reason more than one set?
12:29:25  <planetmaker> <D@lest@n> planetmaker: Reading through it some more: Why is it not recommended to define several sets of sprites in a single action 1 and then attach each set to a separate action2? ("it's recommended to use<loadtypes> = 00 00") And must it be documented as legal to have any nument1/nument2 other than 00 00? If so, why? <-- that's why I'm asking
12:29:34  <peter1138> no
12:29:38  <peter1138> well
12:29:44  <peter1138> you can define if you like, it won't be used though
12:30:03  <peter1138> it's exactly the same for cargo
12:30:41  <planetmaker> ok, so the question why not merge Action2Railtypes with Action2Cargos wiki pages is quite valid...
12:30:55  <planetmaker> though personally I prefer to have it separate
12:32:29  <planetmaker> but maybe that's bad for maintenance of the wiki, dunno
12:32:46  <peter1138> *shrug*
12:32:49  <peter1138> not my wiki
12:32:56  <peter1138> i didn't realise adding pages cost money or something ;p
12:33:01  <planetmaker> well. It's also OpenTTD's newgrf specification
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12:33:13  <planetmaker> hehe ;-)
12:33:15  <planetmaker> me neither
12:33:44  <planetmaker> also I didn't know that each edit costs money. As rather atomic changes are not received well either.
12:34:11  <planetmaker> anyway. So Railtypes and Cargos could be joined for their action2
12:36:10  <roboboy> do I run patch inside the folder containing the source?
12:36:57  <roboboy> im confused by patch on windows
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12:39:51  <planetmaker> DaleStan, Action2Cargos and Action2Railtypes can be merged, if desired. Same restrictions apply to railtypes as do to cargos in that respect.
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12:45:00  <roboboy> if I want to compile 64bit on Windows under VSPro do I need to set anything up differently?
12:45:18  <planetmaker> roboboy, just try if it works :-)
12:45:54  <roboboy> I shall try that
12:47:11  <roboboy> it seems I might
12:47:25  <roboboy> I shall finish my Win32 build first
12:47:40  <planetmaker> DaleStan, num-loadtypes and num-loadingtypes does not HAVE to be 01 00, but there's no point to define more as only the first is going to be used
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12:56:22  <roboboy> hm im getting erors
12:57:24  <roboboy> whats the best way to revert to a clean SVN copy of a patched copy of the source. ie remove the patch
12:57:47  <roboboy> can I do that with patch?
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13:02:48  <Ammler> roboboy: -R
13:03:00  <roboboy> ok
13:03:02  <Ammler> or patch --help
13:03:08  <planetmaker> that only works to revert a specific patch
13:03:18  <planetmaker> otherwise svn revert *
13:03:37  <planetmaker> and then: you're on windows. Everything is more difficult and clicky-coloury there
13:04:08  <Ammler> but you might need to care about new files, which won't be deleted with revert
13:04:27  <kd5pbo> At that point, just re-checkout the source.
13:04:30  <Ammler> I guess, svn doesn't have a function for that, another adv. of hg :-)
13:04:49  <kd5pbo> Delete the directory, svn co whatever.
13:05:23  <Ammler> for i in `svn st | sed -n -e 's/^\?      //gp'`; do rm $i -Rf; done
13:08:32  <roboboy> lets see if ive sorted my mess out
13:09:12  <kd5pbo> Actually, you could probably get away with deleting a subdirectory and using svn revert to restore it.
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13:11:15  <kd5pbo> Ammler: what does the p do in your sed command?
13:12:51  <kd5pbo> Ammler: Never mind.
13:13:27  <Ammler> print
13:14:15  <roboboy> well it compiled
13:14:36  <roboboy> I don't know whether it had the patch I was trying to apply or not
13:15:03  <roboboy> by the way nightlies seem to take for ever to start up on my laptop
13:15:43  <Ammler> start with -d and watch
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13:17:45  <roboboy> I shall brush my teeth while I wait for OpenTTD to compile
13:23:48  <roboboy> grr
13:27:28  <roboboy> the enhanced station selection GUI patch seems to fail to compile for me
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14:07:31  <Belugas> good day to all
14:09:29  <PeterT> hello Belugas
14:11:37  <roboboy> ello
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14:16:06  <Timmaexx> Hello
14:23:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19160 /trunk/src/ (misc/binaryheap.hpp pathfinder/yapf/nodelist.hpp):
14:23:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Enlarge a CBinaryHeapT if the heap is full instead of dropping the added item
14:23:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: CBinaryHeapT::CheckConsistency compared pointers instead of the actual items (skidd13)
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14:39:21  * Belugas is grumbling
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15:29:00  <supdood> is it possible to save a multiplayer game and continue later?
15:30:56  <Belugas> yes
15:31:18  <supdood> how?
15:31:31  <Belugas> just remember which company you were, open the saved game, open the cheat and set yourself yothat company
15:31:39  <supdood> ok thanks
15:31:52  <Belugas> ho.. and save the game while in mp session
15:31:54  <Belugas> welcome
15:33:06  <planetmaker> there's no difference at all actually between SP and MP savegames
15:33:18  <planetmaker> except... MP savegames have more than one human company ;-)
15:33:33  <planetmaker> usually. I know hundrets with only one company :-P
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15:34:53  <Belugas> hehehe
15:35:02  <Belugas> famous ratio: 1 server/1player
15:35:06  <Belugas> or even worse...
15:35:11  <Belugas> WAY TOO MANY SERVERS!
15:37:58  <SpComb^> not all servers are advertised
15:39:00  <Priski> Well at least there is no shortage of servers :)
15:40:08  <Priski> for game like this, it has pretty good online activity
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15:46:37  <Priski> "There only 2 modes in programming: The Flow & The Stuckness"
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16:00:41  <Belugas> i'm stuck in the flow
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16:04:11  <Priski> Belu: it's a fabulous feeling, i'm flowing somewhere in the sea of stuckness...
16:04:18  <Priski> with a raft...
16:04:36  <Priski> without paddle...
16:08:50  <Terkhen> as long as you are not drowning...
16:09:40  <Priski> always think positive is a good philosophy :)
16:09:59  <Priski> maybe cup of coffee would help
16:10:44  <Terkhen> usually it does :P
16:15:40  <Belugas> grab your tank, your fins, your mask, your reg and do go down!
16:15:49  <Belugas> coffee... mmmh
16:16:40  *** PeterT is now known as PeterT_
16:18:06  <Priski> mmm... birthdaycake and coffee
16:26:53  <Belugas> HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
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16:29:59  <Priski> thank you, well it's actually tomorrow but I took a early start on cake :>
16:31:15  <Priski> which I now discovered I don't really like...
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16:33:36  <NeCKeLBR> hi there... i need some help with some new grf
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16:33:46  <NeCKeLBR> can someone help men
16:34:22  <planetmaker> psst folks. He'll leave in 120 seconds if there's no answer
16:34:34  <NeCKeLBR> :/
16:34:40  <IPG> :)
16:34:45  <planetmaker> NeCKeLBR, certainly not, if you don't ask your question
16:34:53  <planetmaker> meta questions suck majorly
16:34:59  <NeCKeLBR> hehehe :P
16:35:13  <planetmaker> and learn patience. :-)
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16:35:41  <NeCKeLBR> I'm doing some tests with the FIRS... I want to know if I can change the industries productions
16:35:53  <NeCKeLBR> during the game
16:35:55  <planetmaker> well. you cannot :-)
16:36:28  <planetmaker> I'm quite sure also the manual industries grf will fail on FIRS
16:36:38  <NeCKeLBR> hum...
16:37:14  <planetmaker> There *might* somewhen later be an option for a "scenario mode" so that production can be set, at least in the scenario editor.
16:37:14  <NeCKeLBR> I'm an amateur at the game... I'm from Brazil, almost nobody plays this game here
16:37:25  <planetmaker> And then it won't change anymore. But that's only music of the future so far
16:37:53  <planetmaker> But currently industries produce and one cannot change their output
16:38:05  <NeCKeLBR> hum...
16:38:08  <planetmaker> Industries increase their production though usually, if you service them well
16:38:37  <planetmaker> though those changes are random in general
16:39:00  <NeCKeLBR> nice... good to know
16:39:33  <planetmaker> well. Industries which produce "primary" cargo. Like mines or farms or alike
16:39:53  <planetmaker> Secondary and tertiary industries produce cargo depending upon the amount of "input" they get
16:40:09  <planetmaker> directly proportional to that
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16:41:10  <planetmaker> may I ask which FIRS version you use, NeCKeLBR ?
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16:42:18  <NeCKeLBR> ok thanks... it helps a lot
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16:49:45  <Hirundo> Yexo: why does varAction2 var 42 (town zone) not exist for airport tiles?
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16:50:49  <Yexo> Hirundo: if there is a need for it it can be easily added
16:50:56  <Yexo> I've just never thought about that one before
16:51:58  <Hirundo> I can imagine a need for it for e.g. in-city heliports
16:52:19  <Yexo> hmm, indeed
16:52:53  <Hirundo> inserting "case 0x42: return GetTownRadiusGroup(ClosestTownFromTile(tile, UINT_MAX), tile);" in the right place should do, I guess :)
16:53:23  <Yexo> just done that :)
16:53:28  <NeCKeLBR> sorry... planetmaker , I use a version that I downloaded from the openttd game
16:53:43  <Hirundo> Then all varact2 vars are the same as those for industry tiles, except for 0x40 which makes no sense obviously
16:54:41  <planetmaker> NeCKeLBR, yes, I assume that. But it tells a version number in its name
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16:55:38  <NeCKeLBR> r217
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16:56:56  <planetmaker> :-) thanks. There's one even older, so I was just curious
16:57:08  <NeCKeLBR> hum...
16:57:29  <NeCKeLBR> is there any brazilian in the development of anything in openttd
16:57:37  <planetmaker> that's the last one which can be obtained from ingame download.
16:58:13  <planetmaker> NeCKeLBR, there's a portuguise and even a brazilian portuguise translation. So: definitely yes
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16:58:43  <planetmaker> wb Belugas
16:59:31  <Belugas> thanks
16:59:37  <Belugas> i'm sure i've not missed much :)
16:59:54  <planetmaker> true ;-)
17:00:03  <NeCKeLBR> ok... I just want to know this guys... how can i find them
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17:07:19  <Belugas> muwhahaha!!!!
17:07:38  <Belugas> NeCKeLBR, you're my hero :D
17:08:29  <Priski> :)
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17:28:40  <Hirundo> Yexo: What about random action 2 / random bits for airport tiles?
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17:29:45  <frosch123> do you have any triggers?
17:30:22  <Yexo> Hirundo: I have no idea how a random action 2 works or what it should do
17:30:33  <Yexo> frosch123: what kind of triggers? There are several animation triggers
17:32:06  <frosch123> random bits can be randomised on certain "triggers" (
17:32:13  <Hirundo> Stuff for newstations/industry tiles should provide a starting point
17:32:22  <frosch123> as long as there are no triggers you do not need any random bits, pseudo random would be enough
17:32:52  <Hirundo> Although I have no idea how much map space is left for such stuff
17:33:28  <frosch123> so, there are some station triggers mostly train related and some industry tile triggers
17:33:47  <Yexo> ah, yes I've already implemented those triggers
17:34:05  <Yexo> so I think it should alrady work, apart from the fact that currently no random bits are available
17:34:10  <frosch123> maybe one trigger could also be a special result in the state callback
17:34:57  <Yexo> that's indeed something I've been thinking of
17:35:13  <Yexo> but the whole state callback code probably needs to be rewritten
17:35:34  <Yexo> it should be no problem adding that later
17:35:38  <frosch123> there are also random bits for tiles in some cases, and there are random bits for the station
17:35:57  <frosch123> iirc. they were somewhat messed for stations
17:36:51  <Yexo> oh, it's pretty easy to reuse the railstation random bits and add some random bits for aiport tiles in the same spot in the map array
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18:04:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r19161 /trunk/src/ (misc/binaryheap.hpp pathfinder/yapf/nodelist.hpp): -Codechange: make the default size of the open list used for yapf a lot lower to reduce memory usage
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18:07:10  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
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18:20:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19162 /trunk/os/debian/ (13 files in 2 dirs): -Update: the debian packaging; bring it in sync with the packaging used at debian (minus the splitting)
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18:45:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r19163 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 2 changes by junho2813
18:45:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 29 changes by mantaray
18:45:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 37 changes by mantaray
18:45:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: polish - 3 changes by xaxa
18:45:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: portuguese - 2 changes by SupSuper
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18:58:58  <jordi> I've been looking at the start screen contest submission and they are pretty cool
18:59:50  <jordi> I hadn't seen openfgx in action since many months ago, and I really like them more than the originals, so congrats everyone who made this possible, 1.0.0 is going to be great!
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19:05:45  <ragzid> yeah, good job
19:06:15  <ragzid> jordi: have you already voted? ;)
19:09:13  <jordi> not yet :)
19:09:21  <jordi> I like the winter one a lot though
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19:12:45  <ragzid> there is not enough votes, you should :)
19:12:55  <jordi> ok
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20:06:33  <devilsadvocate> this isnt really ottd related, but _how_ do any of you open the giant screenshots?
20:06:49  <Sacro> same way you open any file :\
20:07:05  <PeterT> I can open them, but zooming in is a pain
20:07:21  <PeterT> I think it's easier just to upload them to a site, then zoom in there
20:07:23  <Ammler> with SpComb^ viewer
20:07:31  *** ZxBiohazardZx_ is now known as ZxBiohazardZx
20:07:37  <KenjiE20> what sacro said
20:07:40  <peter1138> firstly, install 4 terabytes memory
20:07:56  <ZxBiohazardZx> hey guys /wave
20:07:58  <SpComb^> first, get a 64-bit machine
20:10:16  <SpComb^> win32 only has a 2GB user address space, and you hit that limit pretty quickly - you can't fit the 24bpp data for a 512x512 map
20:10:38  <devilsadvocate> nothing i have opens it
20:10:56  <peter1138> i suggest you delete it :)
20:11:03  <PeterT> You don't have an image viewer, then?
20:11:04  <devilsadvocate> i've tried gimp, gwenview, okular, and assorted randomness
20:11:27  <PeterT> what os?
20:11:30  <SpComb^> devilsadvocate: if you have a 64-bit machine (or a 32-bit linux platform, perhaps) with over 2GB of RAM, then it would fit - it's likely just be very slow with the way apps normally handle images
20:11:33  <devilsadvocate> linux
20:12:30  <SpComb^> <-- demo
20:12:32  <devilsadvocate> i'm using 32-bit (i686) for some convoluted reasons, with 3 gb ram. some of these things give up, the others throw wild exceptions :\
20:12:52  <devilsadvocate> hmm
20:13:01  * devilsadvocate will try to set something like that up
20:13:25  <SpComb^> not sure I'd recommend it
20:13:54  <PeterT> How do you set that up? what program
20:13:56  <SpComb^> it's not release software :P
20:14:16  <SpComb^> but it worked just fine on the 32-bit machine with 4GB of memory that I tested it on
20:15:38  <Rubidium> you just need loads of memory, or loads of swap and a kernel that can handle the loads of memory (virtual or not)
20:16:02  <SpComb^> devilsadvocate: what map size?
20:16:39  <Rubidium> now we're going to hear is... 8192x8192 ?
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20:20:30  <Rubidium> ragzid: rallying for jordi(@d.o?)'s vote
20:20:55  * SpComb^ still needs to vote
20:25:05  <devilsadvocate> SpComb^, 512x512
20:25:20  <devilsadvocate> sorry, had to step away
20:25:42  <Ammler> SpComb^: I did the "dummy" test :-)
20:27:17  <Ammler> what I have collected about the install process:
20:27:19  <SpComb^> Ammler: and it turned up a bunch of issues that still haven't been resolved
20:27:23  <SpComb^> entirely
20:29:36  <aber> How slow is my computer, this takes forever to open this screenshot.
20:30:07  <Ammler> but?
20:30:09  <Rubidium> well, it's 'only' like 32000x16000 pixels in size
20:30:36  <aber> That was the easy task This on is "65472 × 32736"
20:31:25  <SpComb^> aber: that's two gigapixels :)
20:31:26  <Rubidium> so it's 2 billion pixels
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20:31:45  <Rubidium> so 2GB of raw data
20:32:01  <SpComb^> and 6GB of 24bpp data
20:32:06  <Rubidium> unless it tries to open it as 32bpp, then it's 8GB :)
20:32:32  <Rubidium> and the fun it's going to be when it needs to make a copy for its undo function
20:33:06  <aber> 1,80GB Memory consumption.
20:34:24  <SpComb^> and counting
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20:36:39  <Wizzleby> Seems like
20:37:52  <peter1138>
20:37:56  <peter1138> ^ zomg, 32bpp extra zoom
20:38:23  <SpComb^> those look like sheep dancing in a field
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20:43:08  <Eddi|zuHause> looks like warhammer...
20:44:39  <frosch123> hmm, nice goal for ottd 2.0: make the landscape hexagonal
20:44:45  <jordi> Rubidium: yep, it's me
20:44:53  <peter1138> yeah, seems like a big change for civ :s
20:45:07  <devilsadvocate> whats the advantage of hexagonal on ottd?
20:45:36  <frosch123> that you cannot build rectangular buildings across multiple tiles
20:46:16  <devilsadvocate> :S
20:46:18  <Eddi|zuHause> that you cannot build rectangular anything...
20:46:49  <jordi> is it really necessary to open the big ones?
20:47:05  <PeterT> That's what she said.
20:47:06  <jordi> I dare not, my box is an Athlon 800MHz (!!)
20:47:18  <jordi> last time I checked, it didn't have lm support. :)
20:48:01  <Rubidium> jordi: nope, just base your voting on the resolutions you can see
20:48:21  <jordi> Rubidium: yeah, I was just wondering what the big ones are good for
20:48:24  <Rubidium> (there're people who've voted on only the biggest savegame, so it evens it out a bit)
20:48:26  <jordi> anyway, gotta go home
20:49:03  <Rubidium> jordi: so the makers of the games don't put a mess there; would look nasty for people with a high resolution
20:49:53  <aber>
20:49:55  <devilsadvocate> well, it would be nice to have a much scaled down version of the giant screenshot - sure.. the details wouldnt be there, but it'be nice to ahve
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20:50:57  <jordi> Rubidium: I guess blathijs already told you the build deps for opengfx are already on their way to unstable, and we'll move ottd to main
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20:51:24  <Rubidium> jordi: yes, only after I already knew :)
20:51:55  <jordi> heh
20:51:55  <blathijs> Rubidium has a tendency to know all the Debian related stuff before I tell him (or even before I find out myself :-p)
20:51:56  <ZxBiohazardZx> heya rubi how you doing
20:52:02  <ZxBiohazardZx> hows the 1.0.0 development going
20:52:02  <jordi> are you subscribed to the PTS?
20:52:09  <ZxBiohazardZx> just waiting for that save/intro or?
20:52:20  <ZxBiohazardZx> cause the 1.0.0 beta i have seems stable
20:52:30  <Eddi|zuHause> aber: what the hell does one want with such a screen when you can't sit 3-5m away from it?
20:52:42  <Rubidium> jordi: nope, just watch the -devel logs and q.d.o/developer.php?login=...
20:53:23  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: gives you the full experience; after all, in the cinema the front rows can't see the whole screen
20:54:28  <Rubidium> jordi: and I give blathijs lots of ideas of stuff to 'implement' in the packaging (e.g. the cross-compile stuff)
20:55:20  <Rubidium> or (debug symbols stuff, might need some tweaks though)
20:55:30  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: you see there, the guy doesn't use the whole screen anyway...
20:58:23  <frosch123> <- ammler: are you going to pin that over your bed?
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20:59:48  <SpComb^> is that a 30" comptuer display, or a TV?
20:59:49  <Ammler> lol
21:01:23  <jordi> Rubidium: awesome
21:02:14  <Rubidium> jordi: needs another go through new though, wouldn't be much of a problem when migrating from contrib->main needs to go through new too
21:04:28  <Rubidium> jordi: the diff is against the 0.7 package, not 1.0 (lzo2 in rules:configure)
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21:14:08  <__ln__> is this normal: "Sollte als Sangria möglichst kalt und als GlÌhwein möglichst heiss serviert verden."
21:14:37  <Coco-Banana-Man> verden..?
21:14:51  <Coco-Banana-Man> should be werden
21:15:09  <__ln__> sorry, my typo
21:15:34  <__ln__> v and w are barely 5cm apart on the keyboard
21:17:15  <frosch123> i am not sure whether that sentence qualifies for tautology club
21:17:46  <Rubidium> honor societies?
21:18:26  <frosch123> :)
21:18:30  <__ln__> but i'm actually asking whether it's normal that the same drink is both sangría and glÌhwein depending on temperature?
21:18:43  <frosch123> how about ethanol?
21:19:56  <__ln__> pure ethanol is ... not optimal as sangría, i guess.
21:20:16  <SmatZ> it depends
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21:21:23  <frosch123> maybe better than hot ethanol punch
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21:21:59  <frosch123> anyway both are based on wine and are some punch
21:22:18  <frosch123> and both taste like crap
21:22:40  <Rubidium> metaphorical crap I hope
21:23:01  <Bluelight> Is there a channel for help with routers? I have a weird problem..
21:23:21  <frosch123> "it tastes like horse piss"
21:23:40  <frosch123> (igorina)
21:23:42  <aber> if it is cold it is bowle, if its hot it is punsch...
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21:27:04  <frosch123> Bluelight: maybe you should try a different router, do you have another one?
21:28:12  <Bluelight> Umm Ok.. I got a new router and after being connected some time the network stop working..
21:28:20  <Bluelight> The router is running and all but when I try anything internet based the net is down.. Then I unplug the TP pach cable and plug it in and the internet is back for maybe 20 mins or so, when it doesnt work again..
21:28:32  <Bluelight> So I have to unplug and the plug back in every now and then.. And any games prgoressing will be disconnected..
21:28:46  <Bluelight> I have now tried 3 cables, and also bought a new networks card.. And still get the same problem..
21:29:16  <Bluelight> Well I have a old router, but I can't run OpenTTD server with it..
21:29:27  <Bluelight> And the old router is working for some reason..
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21:36:43  <Bluelight> I have tryed two router of the same type also.. I thought maybe it was the problem, but I get the same problem with both of the new routers..
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21:37:31  <jordi> Rubidium: right. Its been years since my last move from non-free to main, so I don't know if currently that means NEW
21:37:58  <jordi> Rubidium: but the NEW package can go through experimental, without disrupting the unstable version
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21:38:19  <jordi> Regarding 1.0.0, is ther ean estimate on when that'll be released, roughly?
21:38:44  <ZxBiohazardZx> my question
21:38:53  <jordi> I don't know when Ubuntu freezes, but it'd be cool to have it in the 10.04 release
21:38:54  <ZxBiohazardZx> answer was something like, when it is
21:38:59  <ZxBiohazardZx> hehe
21:39:09  <ZxBiohazardZx> the last 1.0.0 beta was pretty good
21:39:14  <jordi> ZxBiohazardZx: right, I'm a Debian developer so I'm quite ok with that answer :P
21:39:17  <Rubidium> jordi: ubuntu's in freeze already
21:39:23  <aber> Its done, when its done.
21:39:40  <ZxBiohazardZx> lol jordy its the default answer from any developper
21:39:46  <Nite_Owl> Look to The Fool's Day
21:39:49  <Bluelight_> Just got disconnected again.. Any advice on this?
21:39:50  <ZxBiohazardZx> im not developping for openttd (i cant do c++ or whatever)
21:39:53  <jordi> Rubidium: wouldn't be the first time they accept an exception for a networked game, and when the new version is 1.0.0
21:39:59  <ZxBiohazardZx> but im developping for WoW (sql database)
21:40:01  <ZxBiohazardZx> hehe
21:40:34  <Rubidium> jordi:
21:41:24  <ZxBiohazardZx> jordi, do you know someone who is named digitalaxis or gransus?
21:41:42  <ZxBiohazardZx> another guy i met on my wow-private, hes doing some ubuntu developping as well  XD
21:41:42  <jordi> no
21:41:45  <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz kk
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21:44:20  <__ln__> I guess OpenTTD has already been compiled on ARM for millions of times, so there's no point in doing that for just the sake of experiment?
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21:45:47  <planetmaker> __ln__: there's always a point
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21:56:23  <Eddi|zuHause> one of my hard disks is strangely vibrating...
21:56:34  <Sacro> sit on it
21:56:50  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not particularly loud, but there's a periodic noise difference...
21:57:15  <__ln__> it could also be that the disk is completely still and the universe is vibrating around it.
21:57:51  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i can't fix the universe relatively to my position...
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21:58:36  <Bluelight_> lol
21:58:38  <jordi> Eddi|zuHause: how about backups?
21:59:42  <Eddi|zuHause> jordi: it's not the kind of noise that makes me worry...
21:59:50  <Eddi|zuHause> more the kind of noise that is annoying
22:00:17  <Eddi|zuHause> it's kind of a humming... that gets slightly louder every 2 seconds...
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22:01:37  <Nite_Owl> loose screw maybe
22:02:10  <Belugas> bye bye
22:02:19  <Nite_Owl> later Belugas
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22:17:00  <Oddysee> hi everyone
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22:17:26  <Eddi|zuHause> <__ln__> but i'm actually asking whether it's normal that the same drink is both sangría and glÌhwein depending on temperature? <-- it's like "waffle nuts" and "waffle eggs" ... they're the same, but one thing is sold only at christmas, and the other thing only at easter :p
22:18:38  <Eddi|zuHause> (or how they take the chocolate from unsold santa clauses and make them into easter bunnies)
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22:20:04  <__ln__> the bottle has text in 15 languages, and that glÃŒhwein option is only in D.
22:24:23  <Brianetta> Eddi: Lindt rabbits look much like Lindt reindeer
22:25:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't heard of lindt raindeer...
22:25:50  <Brianetta>
22:26:55  <glx> yeah it looks like the rabbit
22:27:02  <Eddi|zuHause> now i'm certain i have never ever seen one of these...
22:27:06  <glx> they just changed packaging
22:27:30  <Brianetta> THey look different when seen together
22:27:36  <Brianetta> but they're rarely seen together (:
22:28:14  <glx> IIRC the rabbit is taller
22:28:20  <Brianetta> I couldn't say
22:28:52  <Brianetta> I thought it was odd that they were selling rabbits in late November 2009, until I looked more closely and saw that they were reindeer
22:29:29  <glx> <-- they are indeed different :)
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22:30:53  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... new question from His Holyness... "wtf do you need cargo destinations for?!" :p
22:32:37  <PeterT> neob?
22:32:50  <__ln__> pay close attention to the difference of appearance:
22:32:51  <planetmaker> no no. two letters only, I assume
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22:36:02  <Eddi|zuHause> what would make you associate "neob" with "holy"?
22:39:28  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: holy shit?!
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22:40:48  <Eddi|zuHause> other question: who behaves like he's the (newgrf) pope, and totally acts up whenever the (openttd) evangelists don't listen to him?
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22:42:54  <planetmaker> which forum is the article you refer to, Eddi|zuHause ?
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22:43:15  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: in the german forum, the ttdpatch nightly topic
22:43:20  <__ln__> booooring, trunk compiled flawlessly on ARM in 29 minutes.
22:43:24  <planetmaker> ah.
22:43:26  <planetmaker> thanks
22:43:32  <Rubidium> __ln__: duuh
22:43:58  <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: That would explain why I failed to find anything with tt-forums search
22:44:40  <Rubidium> it has been for a very long time (for Debian)
22:45:08  <__ln__> 23:44 < __ln__> I guess OpenTTD has already been compiled on ARM for millions of times, so there's no point in doing that for just the sake of experiment?
22:45:56  <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause/planetmaker: So, who was it?
22:46:16  <planetmaker> the newgrf pope
22:46:37  <PeterT> That is his username?
22:47:18  <PeterT> what does this mean? "Entschuldigung, aber nach deinen Angaben wurden keine Ergebnisse gefunden. Bitte Àndere deine Suchbegriffe und versuche es erneut."
22:47:51  <SpComb^> PeterT: no results
22:47:52  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: means "fucking search for something that's actually there!"
22:47:54  <Rubidium> isn't a pope 'democratically' elected?
22:48:04  <SpComb^> Eddi|zuHause: what did you use to translate that? :P
22:48:30  <PeterT>
22:48:52  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: sorry, i had the intercultural politenesss converter backwards :p
22:48:54  <Rubidium> SpComb^: high school and street linguistics?
22:49:05  <Eddi|zuHause> or, in "New York" mode :p
22:49:43  <planetmaker> Rubidium: well... but by a self-appointed elite of a vanishing minority ;-)
22:50:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: not all elections are automatically democratic
22:50:54  <planetmaker> ... I unanimously elect myself... ? ;-)
22:51:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: and you don't actually get to know how they get to the decision...
22:52:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: plus, that election is for lifetime and may have happened a long time in the past...
22:53:15  <PeterT> what goes after the equals sign in "2cctrainset.grf = "
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22:53:32  <planetmaker> no parameters
22:53:34  <Prof_Frink> planetmaker: Are you familiar with the phrase "One Man, One Vote"?
22:53:43  <PeterT> Thanks planetmaker
22:54:10  <planetmaker> Prof_Frink: and?
22:54:11  <Eddi|zuHause> Prof_Frink: is that like "one man, one car"?
22:55:23  <Prof_Frink> "The Patrician was The Man, he had The Vote" ;)
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22:55:37  <Ammler> PeterT: 9
22:56:29  <Rubidium> Ammler: is that a word trick for no?
22:56:46  <Ammler> answer to [23:53] <PeterT> what goes after the equals sign in "2cctrainset.grf = "
22:57:11  <PeterT> Ammler: #openttdcoop.devzone
22:57:12  <Rubidium> too bad it isn't a word trick, would've liked that
22:57:23  <Ammler> NO :-)
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23:04:08  <Eddi|zuHause> like that Conan o'Brien joke. "Today is September 9th, so it is 9-9-9..."
23:04:24  <Eddi|zuHause> "I haven't heard that many 9s since i dated that german woman"
23:05:24  <__ln__> great :)
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23:10:54  <__ln__>
23:13:49  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently i never had a movie on a legit DVD...
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23:15:28  <__ln__> my impression is that those non-skippable trailers and FBI warnings are more common on the other side of the ocean.
23:16:17  <PeterT> I don't know, I like the trailers
23:17:42  <Eddi|zuHause> ok... if i HAD such a DVD, i would probably want to watch the trailer for the first time
23:18:06  <Eddi|zuHause> but any subsequent time i want to see the movie, i would find it very annoying to not be able to skip them
23:18:31  <Eddi|zuHause> and obviously i buy a DVD to watch a movie multiple times...
23:19:28  <PeterT> Also, I've always been able to skip over everthing except the FBI warnings with the "Root Menu" button
23:19:35  <__ln__> I have such a blu-ray disc, the new Terminator, ordered from the US. it has unskippable things at begin, including a video that tells about the benefits of blu-ray (hey, i'm already watching a blu-ray on a full-hd tv, i don't need to be educated).
23:21:34  <__ln__> And oh yes, I also have V for Vendetta DVD (R2), where at first you need to select your country from a list of several dozen countries... And the *only* thing that this selection affects is whether you will be shown an anti-piracy propaganda film or not.
23:22:03  <PeterT> so, what do you select?
23:22:10  <PeterT> :-{
23:22:13  <__ln__> The selected country does not affect e.g. the audio/subtitle selections of the disc.
23:22:21  <PeterT> s/{/P
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23:25:20  <Rhamphoryncus> __ln__: my favourite part about the FBI warning is that it's simply wrong.  It denies any fair use rights
23:27:13  <aber> Fair use? You're allowed to watch the movie? But watch out you lock the door.
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23:47:15  <PeterT> why does openttd need the original grfs even in dedicated server mode?
23:48:11  <planetmaker> use OpenGFX
23:48:17  <planetmaker> and SFX
23:48:29  <planetmaker> the answer is simple: it's not only graphics
23:48:39  <planetmaker> it's for example also map generation sprites
23:52:42  <SpComb^> OpenSFX isn't strictly required, afaik
23:52:52  <SpComb^> but OpenGFX is, for things like vehicle stats
23:53:11  <PeterT> Oh
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23:53:48  <SpComb^> but all the PCX pixel data in OpenGFX is unused
23:54:17  <PeterT> so openttd just needs the information, not graphics?
23:55:57  <PeterT> is make DEDICATED=1 is the same as ./configure --enable-dedicated?
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23:59:44  <Eddi|zuHause> it'a not entirely unused, it's just written to void ;)
23:59:45  <Yexo> no, it isn't

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