Log for #openttd on 3rd March 2010:
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00:52:51  <SpComb^>
00:53:45  <lennard> wtf is that? :P
00:53:52  <lennard> above/below sea-level?
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00:55:41  <SpComb^> dunno, some AI debugging I guess
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01:08:55  <Eddi|zuHause> more likely cargo acceptance
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08:39:21  <TrueBrain> **BUUURRRPPP**
08:41:11  <pw-> any freebsd users?
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08:41:49  <TrueBrain> you want general FreeBSD help? Then you are at the wrong channel. Otherwise, just say what your problem/question is :)
08:50:36  <Rubidium> so... guess it was not OpenTTD related
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09:10:21  <TrueBrain> one can only guess ;)
09:11:16  <peter1138> no, it was a simple question
09:11:22  <peter1138> "any freebsd users?"
09:11:39  <peter1138> "yes" -- there are some, believe it or not
09:11:43  <dih> \o/ apache segfaults with php 5.2.5 + xcache!
09:11:45  <dih> fuck
09:11:53  <dih> hello TrueBrain ;-)
09:11:57  <peter1138> php--
09:12:02  <TrueBrain> apache--
09:12:47  <dih> well - i can hardly tell the company to move to another language
09:12:55  <dih> i would not mind... but!!
09:16:05  <TrueBrain> I AM SO THIRSTY!
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09:19:46  <peter1138> hello hackykid
09:20:23  <Hackykid> hi peter1138
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09:41:48  * peter1138 wonders how close to freeze squeeze is
09:44:35  <peter1138> there's a nasty unfixed bug in gnome-vfs in lenny related to smb
09:44:43  <dih> a squeeze freeze? :P
09:44:47  <Noldo> :)
09:45:10  <Noldo>
09:45:28  <Noldo> I read that one of those lines needs to drop under some magical mark before freeze
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09:56:49  <Rubidium> peter1138: last message was something like "although we earlier March, the number of RC bugs (Noldo's list) has to be less than that magic number and we don't expect that to happen in March"
09:59:41  <Rubidium> peter1138: (magic mark = 300)
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10:29:07  <Orbiter> <-- openttd noob here.. Why can't I see my downloaded scenarios when starting a multiplayer game?
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10:55:12  <fjb> [09:41:11] <pw-> any freebsd users? <- Yes, ofcourse.
10:55:28  <fjb> Oh, some seconds...
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11:04:54  <Terkhen> hello
11:13:51  <PeterT> Good morning, Terkhen
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12:40:33  <SpComb^> peter1138 is inactive
12:43:11  <peter1138> i am?
12:43:35  <SpComb^>
12:44:23  <Noldo> :)
12:52:52  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: i believe he meant celestar
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12:54:30  <SpComb^> Eddi|zuHause: celestar did the map array stuff?
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12:57:20  <SpComb^> Eddi|zuHause: that topic is custom bridgeheads
12:57:29  <SpComb^> newmap was just ancilliary
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13:04:13  <Ammler> iirc, custom bridgeheads got "broken" with bridges over a lot of things
13:06:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: no, custom bridgeheads was after that...
13:06:57  <ccfreak2k> Video killed the custombridgeheads star.
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13:09:28  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause's revising history :)
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13:10:01  <Eddi|zuHause> history is what i say it is!
13:12:59  <peter1138> ammler is right, although it was stopped way before that
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13:14:12  <peter1138> ahh
13:14:16  <peter1138> Joined: 2007-01-17 00:14:58
13:14:27  <peter1138> you're talking about the wrong custombridgeheads patch :p
13:15:48  <Ammler> I had the branch in mind...
13:16:17  <Ammler> support for rail only, iirc
13:18:41  <peter1138> the original patch i wrote supported road and rail
13:18:51  <peter1138> 5 years ago, hurr
13:19:29  <Rubidium> yeah, an ancient patch... so you must be an ancient! :)
13:19:48  <peter1138> i'm inactive :D
13:20:25  <Rubidium> says who?
13:20:31  <peter1138> that guy
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13:38:59  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, there are two different patches...
13:40:39  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: <- already said so!
13:40:57  <Rubidium> and correctly basically his completely incorrect post
13:42:47  <Eddi|zuHause> the main problem with the cbh branch was that trains on a bridge did not stop for a signal on the bridge head
13:44:07  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: actually, I think trains falling apart is the bigger problem; the signal issue can be temporarily 'solved' by not allowing signals
13:44:45  <Rubidium> not allowing signals = not adding a feature, not allowing to turn around = breaking a feature
13:45:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember a trains falling apart problem with bridge heads
13:45:38  <Eddi|zuHause> at least if one existed, it would be solvable
13:47:36  <Rubidium> bah, no thread about cbh
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13:52:04  <Rubidium> as in Celestar's cbh attempt
13:52:23  <Priski> why anyone does even bother translate anything if it just some main buttons on website
13:53:14  <Priski> it is annoying to browse that redmine project manager software
13:54:34  <Rubidium> Priski: I think you're talking to the wrong channel
13:55:25  <Priski> yeah but I meant that in larger respect
13:55:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: there might be random chat discussion around 4 Jan 2007
13:56:21  <Priski> I mean, is that even helpful to anyone when site contents is always english but titles are on native language where are you browsing
13:57:11  <Rubidium> Priski: I guess it isn't
13:57:25  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: don't have those logs (anymore)
13:57:28  <Priski> and it isn't first time I encounter this
13:58:08  <Priski> and usually there is no way to turn it off
13:58:09  <Rubidium> just tell your browser to tell servers that it wants English
13:58:26  <Rubidium> as I've never had problems with it (yet)
13:59:35  <Priski> When did this feature come into browsers :D
13:59:49  <Eddi|zuHause> about 15 years ago...
13:59:52  <Priski> totally missed it
14:00:04  <Priski> I have been living in cave apparently
14:00:38  <Priski> ahh.. this is now so much better ~~
14:03:22  <Rubidium> says 1996 it's offical; the protocol has been, according to the text, in use sing 1990
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14:05:19  <Rubidium> so yes, Eddi|zuHause's 15 years seems a quite reasonable estimate
14:08:45  <Priski> I'm pretty sure nobody did use that feature for years though
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14:10:32  <Priski> until someone "hey, I just found this great thing from granddaddy's old chest"
14:12:55  <Ammler> afaik, you can "overrule" it with user settings
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14:22:27  <Belugas> helloooo
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15:56:07  * Belugas mumbles obscenities while looking at his pinpad
15:59:44  <planetmaker> better than looking obscene while mumbling at the pinpad ;-)
15:59:46  <planetmaker> hello :-)
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16:14:24  <Belugas> planetmaker, you are totally right
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16:14:47  <Belugas> but either way, it does not solve anything, sadly
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16:16:18  <planetmaker> he... :S
16:31:49  <peter1138> manquinista, eh?
16:37:30  <Belugas> mmh?
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16:38:35  <planetmaker> is late
16:39:26  <peter1138> belugas,
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16:43:50  <Belugas> heheh
16:46:18  <frosch123> "it's a matter of not making additional examples of an existing problem."
16:46:46  <frosch123> ( )
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16:52:37  <Belugas> mmh... soubnds like... we have a problem, and it musst be fixed by devs, not us
16:54:25  * Belugas shakes his keyboard
16:54:28  <Priski> too many accounts in too many sites is an issue
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16:55:20  <Priski> gotta have some sort of accountmanager for all the sites
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17:23:47  <__ln__>
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17:43:44  <dih> helloses
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17:45:23  <Eddi|zuHause> you meant "heillos"
17:45:29  <Quibus> hi
17:45:42  <Quibus> I heard there is someone working on a music set for OpenTTD, called OpenMSX
17:45:54  *** Frankr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:45:54  <planetmaker> yes, Quibus
17:45:55  <Quibus> Is there someone here involved in that?
17:46:02  <planetmaker> yes, Quibus
17:46:26  <Quibus> OK, the thing is, our open source project is already named "openMSX"...
17:46:34  <Quibus> Maybe it's a good idea to pick a different name?
17:46:38  <Quibus>
17:46:58  <planetmaker> Do you really think that there's a problem?
17:47:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i never understood why it must have an X in its name...
17:47:28  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, consistency with OpenGFX and OpenSFX
17:47:45  <planetmaker> graphiX, SoundEffeX and MusiX ;-)
17:48:29  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but IMHO it's silly ;)
17:48:42  <planetmaker> many things are silly ;-) Especially names
17:49:12  <planetmaker> Quibus, I wasn't aware of "your" openmsx when I chose the name
17:49:40  <planetmaker> On the other hand I don't see really any conflict. OpenMSX in the OpenTTD context is only an extension not usable elsewhere
17:49:41  <dih> erm - openMSX last new post was over 6 months ago
17:49:58  <Priski> That site misses one point, it does not clearly say whatta hell openMSX is... :P
17:50:01  <dih> *news
17:50:54  <planetmaker> It does tell in the documentation...
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17:51:45  <Eddi|zuHause> as long as neither of you registers a trademark, there should be no reason to change anything
17:51:47  <Priski> well yes, and there is that "mxs emulator" on there
17:52:05  <dih> <- interesting
17:52:20  <dih> you have tcl in there?
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17:54:02  <planetmaker> Quibus, honest question: is there a problem with one music plugin for OpenTTD being called OpenMSX?
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17:57:00  <dih> looks like Quibus is doing other more important stuff :-P
17:57:05  <planetmaker> yeah
17:57:11  <Rubidium> it's going to be called openttd-openmsx in Debian anyway, so it won't conflict there
17:57:26  <planetmaker> makes sense :-)
17:57:37  <Rubidium> in Fedora I extrapolate the same name will be used (openttd-opengfx is used there)
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17:58:07  <Quibus> planetmaker: well, it is just confusing if you Google on it or have Google alerts on it
17:58:22  <Quibus> (sorry, I had to do some Real Life stuff here)
17:58:23  <dih> comparing download numbers ..........
17:58:29  <dih> :-P
17:58:32  <Quibus> planetmaker: I understand you weren't aware of our openMSX name
17:59:12  <Quibus> dih: we don't often post news there, but the project is very active, see the page
17:59:20  <Quibus> (or visit #openMSX on FreeNode)
17:59:37  <Vampier> or
17:59:44  * Rubidium dislikes freenode
17:59:50  <Quibus> dih: yes, it embeds Tcl
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18:01:04  <OwenS> OperatorMul <blah> [with TL = long int, TR = VMFunction*]: Assertion `!"Not currently doing casts"' failed. <-- Thats an error I'd expect if I was trying to multiply a function by an int. I'm not >_<
18:01:43  <Quibus> planetmaker: anyway, to avoid confusion with Google or package search or similar stuff, it would be better to not have such similar names. OTOH: I can't (and won't try) to force you of course :-) It's just that we prefer to not have the confusion, if that's OK with you
18:02:36  <dih> your openmsx project fills the first result page on google - i doubt you will run into issues soon
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18:02:51  <Quibus> dih: my Google Alert found yours :-)
18:03:08  <Quibus> So, now I will be getting Google Alerts about the OpenTTD OpenMSX :P
18:03:15  <Rubidium> "openttd-openmsx" as official name?
18:03:18  <dih> i am on page 3....
18:03:20  <Vampier> it's a friendly request :)
18:03:29  <planetmaker> I'll think about it. But honestly I'm not fond of changing the name. Except to what Rubidium proposes.
18:03:36  * Vampier calls lawyer :P
18:03:45  * Vampier grins :P
18:03:48  <Quibus> planetmaker: well, thanks for thinking about it :-)
18:04:00  <Rubidium> hahah... lawyers...
18:04:02  <dih> page 5 - first hit.... in
18:04:16  <Vampier> I played TTD a few times :) it's cool
18:04:17  <dih> Vampier, you are cute
18:04:24  <Vampier> lol
18:04:35  <dih> lawyer ...
18:04:35  <Quibus> dih: I think that's the one who was found by Google Alert as well
18:04:36  <Vampier> I'm not sure too take that as a compliment
18:04:51  <dih> no - you should not :-P
18:04:56  <Vampier> hahaha
18:04:58  <Quibus> dih: don't mind Vampier - he's a mad Dutchmen who moved to the USA and now got some attitude :P
18:05:13  * Quibus slaps Vampier around a bit with a 500lbs C++ manual
18:05:15  <Vampier> quibus is the stiffest in the openMSX team
18:05:17  <dih> nah - i am not serious Vampier
18:05:38  <dih> but yeah - laywer? seriously!!
18:05:39  <Rubidium> yeah, all Dutch people are mad
18:05:40  <Vampier> I'm more what you would call 'the village idiot who does prototyping'
18:05:45  <Quibus> Rubidium: exactly
18:05:52  <Vampier> dih: I was clearly joking
18:06:29  <Vampier> Remco Bijker... that's 2x Dutch :P
18:06:31  <dih> it would have made me laugh even more if you were not :-D
18:06:34  <Quibus> OTOH: Dutch folks of over 25 should definitely know what MSX is :-)
18:06:53  * planetmaker doesn't know (but I'm not Dutch)
18:07:10  <planetmaker> And honestly, visiting your web page doesn't give an easy clue either ;-)
18:07:10  * Rubidium doesn't know either
18:07:11  <Vampier> Well Germany had them too
18:07:19  <Quibus> Vampier: very few
18:07:19  <Vampier> but it wasn't as wide spread
18:07:22  <dih> planetmaker, look at the screenshots :-D
18:07:25  <planetmaker> Vampier, doesn't make it better :-P
18:07:29  <Rubidium> Vampier: if you copy a name, copy it correctly
18:07:37  <OwenS> planetmaker: Emulator for an 8-bit console. Perhaps most notable for having the first Metal Gears :p
18:07:38  <Vampier> das habbe ich schon gedacht
18:07:49  <Quibus> OwenS: you score points!
18:07:58  <Vampier> OwenS: the original metal gears ;)
18:08:01  <Ammler> in suse, the only openmsx is openttd openmsx
18:08:12  <Vampier> Snake's revenge wasn't an official metal gear... and doesn't fit any timeline
18:09:04  <OwenS> I need to get a PS2 some time, so I can get Snake Eater and play the originals (Well, and 2 & 3). There was a disadvantage to having an Xbox...
18:09:04  <Vampier>
18:09:18  <Vampier> here is a video of the whole game
18:09:23  <Vampier> I need to re-record that one
18:09:29  <Vampier> it's not in HD jet
18:09:35  <dih> besides - even if openMSX were renamed to openttd-openmsx, changing how it's refered to in the forums will hardly happen
18:09:42  <dih> and google will also hit that sooner or later
18:09:54  <OwenS> And yay! My interpreter just interpreted it's first program ^^
18:09:55  <dih> oh - and blogs, youtube, irc,....
18:10:20  <Vampier> followed by debian/ubuntu etc etc
18:10:56  <Quibus> dih: at least the problem will not grow bigger if it is
18:11:06  <Quibus> (renamed)
18:11:28  <OwenS> (It's amazing how good it feels to execute even something as simple as "def x(a, b) return a * b; return x(4, 2); " :P)
18:11:30  <dih> there IS no problem!
18:11:31  <Quibus> When was the OpenTTD one started?
18:11:34  <Vampier> quibus: request is done :P
18:11:36  <Rubidium> or call it openmfx
18:11:48  <Vampier> mfx .... that sounds bad
18:11:58  <Quibus> Vampier: no, sounds good :-)
18:11:59  <Vampier> motherf-ers or something
18:12:01  <planetmaker> nor does OpenMUX work
18:12:13  <OwenS> planetmaker: OpenMusx? :p
18:12:14  <Vampier> openMUS?
18:12:16  <Rubidium> yeah, it sounds bad... bit open[gms]fx!
18:12:20  <Quibus> OpenMZX?
18:12:22  <dih> OpenTTD_MSX :-D
18:12:40  <planetmaker> not openMUS. Sounds aweful
18:12:43  <Vampier> dih: you can blame us :P
18:12:50  <dih> blame you for what?
18:12:51  <planetmaker> You know German, therefor you know how it sounds
18:12:52  <Vampier> openFinch :P
18:12:54  <OwenS> Musx actually sounds like Music as well :p
18:13:21  <dih> uh - i have an idea... openmsx :-P
18:13:45  <Vampier> hahaha
18:13:53  <Vampier> why not call it closedMSX
18:13:59  <Vampier> no-one uses that name anyway
18:14:07  <planetmaker> Vampier, you're free to use that name
18:14:07  <Quibus> hehehe
18:14:11  <Priski> :D
18:14:24  <Vampier> funny planetmaker
18:14:28  <dih> why on earth do people who write GPL'd software, believe they have a right to an exclusive name??
18:14:31  <planetmaker> as funny as you...
18:14:43  <dih> esp if it's totally unrelated
18:14:52  <OwenS> dih: It was just a polite request
18:14:59  <dih> i know
18:15:05  <Ammler> maybe we should call it "coca cola"
18:15:06  <Priski> dih: actually that is a good point, maybe to avoid confusion?
18:15:23  <OwenS> Much bigger projects (Phoenix*cough*Firebird*cough*Firefox) have renamed themselves to avoid it :p
18:15:24  <dih> and after a few polite answers from planetmaker: i'll think about it <- iirc
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18:15:53  <planetmaker> anyway... we can think about that. And now have a good evening, I need to leave for tonight :-)
18:15:59  <Quibus> yep, so thanks! :) In case of any questions/discussion/whatever, feel free to join #openMSX on FreeNode.
18:16:00  <Quibus> see you
18:16:14  * dih waves
18:16:22  <dih> ^ better than air waves
18:16:27  <Quibus> planetmaker: OK, I'm out of here as well, bye! :) Nice talking to fellow openMSXers :-)
18:16:37  * Vampier tsunami-s
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18:16:53  <Vampier> but sticks around
18:17:40  <Vampier> I really like the idea that openTTD used TcL
18:17:52  <Rubidium> huh? it did?
18:17:57  <dih> what?
18:18:03  <blathijs> Isn't that the autopilot thing?
18:18:13  <dih> yes, but that aint an OpenTTD thing
18:18:14  <Rubidium> kewl... that must be someone else using it's name too
18:18:43  <__ln__> *its
18:18:44  <Priski> just out of intrest, why #openttd in OFTC not Freenode?
18:19:04  <Eddi|zuHause> because a majority of devs voted that freenode is shit
18:19:13  <OwenS> Admittedly it's less shit now :p
18:19:15  <__ln__> Priski: because of lilo-spam
18:19:21  <Vampier> lilo is dead
18:19:22  <Priski> lilo spam?
18:19:27  <Vampier> already 3_ years
18:19:28  <Vampier> :(
18:19:28  <dih> and the hassle to move back is too big :-P
18:19:30  <dih> hehe
18:19:35  <Eddi|zuHause> Vampier: yes, that was a short time after we left :p
18:19:38  <dih> most openttd related stuff is here
18:20:00  <Eddi|zuHause> there were also frequent netsplits
18:20:08  <Eddi|zuHause> and one of our devs was banned for no reason
18:20:29  <Priski> no reason?
18:20:44  <Ammler> freenode has still no ssl support
18:20:52  <Eddi|zuHause> well, unless "it's Bjarni" is a reason :)
18:21:04  <dih> HAHA - hit the right guy :-P
18:21:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i thought they introduced that recently
18:21:14  <frosch123> bjarni is banned from freenode? maybe we should move there :p
18:21:32  <Rubidium> and not to mention the dozens of times I was kicked for 'flooding' in the middle of the night while sleeping
18:22:37  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: indeed, I can remember the discussion about moving opensuse because of that...
18:23:47  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... what do i do with a folder called "install" containing 100GB worth of windows programs?
18:23:55  <Vampier> I forgot I have to have the original graphics :) are there any 'replacement' graphic packs?
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18:24:14  <dih> Vampier, guess ;-)
18:24:17  <Eddi|zuHause> Vampier: yes, if you use the 1.0.0 installer, it will offer to install those
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18:27:26  <Vampier> dih: I really should read better.... it's right on the download page :) (thanks Eddi|zuHause I've download RC1)
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18:28:46  <Eddi|zuHause> now that we have a title game, isn't it time for RC2?
18:29:06  <Priski> we do?
18:29:31  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, vote was closed earlier this week, and it has been committed
18:29:37  <Priski> yay
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18:29:48  <Eddi|zuHause> it's in the 1.0 branch
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18:31:20  <Priski> not on the nightlies it seems
18:31:34  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's specific to 1.0
18:32:12  <Priski> :P
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18:42:50  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... interesting... i just found a copy of transport tycoon (not entirely sure which one)...
18:42:58  <Eddi|zuHause> with several savegames...
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18:43:39  <Wolf01> hello
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18:44:29  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... feature request: if you click on the directory name in the save/load window, it should allow you to enter a path
18:46:10  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r19305 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
18:46:10  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:10  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 3 changes by burgerd
18:46:10  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: malay - 1 changes by Kwokfu
18:46:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
18:46:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: serbian - 27 changes by etran
18:46:14  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: thai - 7 changes by decoze
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18:54:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't suppose i have any use for a "j2sdk-1_4_1_01-windows-i586.exe"
18:58:43  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r19306 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp rail.h): -Change: Railtype cost factor from byte to word value
19:07:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r19307 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp rail.h smallmap_gui.cpp table/railtypes.h): -Add: Let railtypes specify their own smallmap colour. No legend support yet.
19:08:55  <Prof_Frink> peter1138: Footrest?
19:09:05  <peter1138> quite
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19:46:24  <Zuu> Coding style: "own members of classes should always be referenced using "this->" "
19:46:36  <Zuu> Does this include static class members?
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19:46:56  <Zuu> Or shall I rather use ClassName::static_member_var?
19:47:05  <Rubidium> the latter
19:47:14  <peter1138> you can't use this with static class members, heh
19:47:27  <Zuu> I though so, but couldn't find any confirmation for the later in the wiki.
19:47:33  * OwenS prefers his prefixing with m_/ms_
19:47:35  <Zuu> peter1138: Tell MSVC that :-)
19:48:36  <Zuu> OwenS: Sure, that is what I do myself (excluding the underscore), but OpenTTD wouldn't be happy if I sticked to my coding style.
19:48:51  <OwenS> Zuu: I understand that :-)
19:49:12  <OwenS> I doubt they'd be fan of my CamelCase enumeration values :p
19:49:38  <OwenS> (Blame Qt for that one :P )
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19:50:44  <peter1138> qt :(
19:50:45  <frosch123> as long as you do not prefix pointers and references with p and r
19:51:35  <OwenS> No I don't. My sentiment is that hungarian notation should be used to carry only semantics that the type system can't
19:51:55  <Zuu> frosch123: That I do aswell :-)
19:52:21  <OwenS> peter1138: Whats wrong with Qt?
19:52:35  <Zuu> OwenS: It requires a preprocessor?
19:53:00  <OwenS> Zuu: That adds features you can't have without. Besides, your build system shoul abstract that away from you ;-)
19:53:03  <peter1138> reinventing the wheel syndrome
19:53:04  <Zuu> Makes it hard to use with Visual Studio unless you are rich.
19:53:20  <peter1138> preprocessor crap
19:53:22  <OwenS> Zuu: Huh? CMake can generate SLN's for free :-)
19:53:48  <OwenS> peter1138: If you're talking about QList & co, thats because they are required to support platforms with useless STLs
19:53:49  <Zuu> Last time I tried it was not possible to use the Express edition of visual studio with Qt.
19:54:01  <OwenS> Zuu: No reason you can't. It's a bog standard C++ library
19:54:23  <Zuu> Well the problem was related to the preprocessor.
19:54:42  <OwenS> Strange, as both CMake and QMake can generate Visual Studio projects which work in express fine
19:55:15  <Zuu> Okay, that they didn't tell in the readme/howto that I read then. :-)
19:55:37  <OwenS> peter1138: As for preprocessor crap, QMetaType is something I find incredibly useful, and is impossible without a preprocessor
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19:56:51  <Zuu> I've been looking at migrating to wxwidgets but hasn't got around to do that yet. (currently I'm using a self-written window manager)
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19:57:02  <OwenS> Ugh. wxWidgets is a horirble mess of macros
19:58:07  <OwenS> I'd even use GTK+ from C preferentially to wxWidgets; it's that horrid that I'd choose a widget set which doesn't intergrate anywhere
19:58:54  <Zuu> hmm, a plus with GTK+ from my point of view is that they use sigc++ which I already hevily rely on. :-)
19:59:16  <OwenS> Zuu: Yes, but GTK behaves like GTK everywhere. You can always tell you're using a GTK app
19:59:35  <OwenS> Qt and wxWidgets tend to behave natively (wx less so, as the Linux version backs onto GTK)
19:59:47  <Zuu> Well, people can tell everywhere that I use a homemade window system currently so not a big change.
19:59:50  <frosch123> except you never know whether the g refers to gnu, gimp or gnome
20:00:22  <OwenS> Gtkmm's API isn't that bad, but I still prefer Qt's
20:00:47  <peter1138> qt's preprocessor crap is, of course, just another form of "a horrible mess of macros"
20:00:56  <Zuu> I tried Gtkmm about 4-5 years ago with a project but had to cancel it because it made compilation time sky rocket.
20:01:43  <OwenS> peter1138: The horrible mess of macros I'm talking about is WX' WX_DECLARE_VECTOR(Type, VectorName). Thats right - they reinvented macros using the preprocessor!
20:01:48  <peter1138> gtk looks like gtk to me, which is nice becuase it fits in with my gtk-based gnome desktop
20:01:49  <OwenS> reinvented templates**
20:02:11  <OwenS> peter1138: Qt also looks like Gtk to you. Gtk looks like Gtk to me, which makes it stand out like a sore thumb on my KDE desktop
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20:02:18  <peter1138> no, qt looks like shit to me
20:02:29  <OwenS> peter1138: Any decent distro ships QGtkTheme
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20:03:07  <OwenS> QGtkTheme even makes it use GTK's horrid file selectors!
20:03:50  <OwenS> (Sorry, I think it's called QGtkStyle)
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20:05:08  <insulfrog> hi
20:05:12  <Zuu> In the FilterSignList patch I think it is enough to make the "match case" button remember its state. The filter string I don't think need to be remembered when you close the window. Do you agree?
20:05:39  <Zuu> (remember = use static var, but don't save in the config)
20:06:53  <peter1138> always the way
20:07:02  <peter1138> qt/kde users think gtk/gnome is horrid
20:07:03  <peter1138> and vice versa
20:07:13  <peter1138> otoh, fltk is quite nasty
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20:07:52  <OwenS> peter1138: What I want is a toolkit which makes my app behave natively everywhere, and the closest to that is Qt
20:08:59  <peter1138> whereas i don't give a rats ass about windows and os x
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20:09:12  <OwenS> Or KDE ;-)
20:09:23  <peter1138> or indeed kde, which doesn't even look like kde
20:09:28  <glx> <OwenS> reinvented templates** <-- but wxwidget is an old project (started in 1992)
20:09:56  <OwenS> glx: I understand that. They are, however, still doing that. I think by now they've had enough time to change
20:10:07  <OwenS> Also, wx is very MFC, and I don't think many people like MFC ;-)
20:10:09  <Zuu> I personally care more about the ability to integrate the toolkit with existing code, how well supported the toolkit is in the community, ability to build it and if it has stable SDL-support or if I need to port my drawing system to OpenGL.
20:10:32  <OwenS> I don't know of any toolkit with SDL support
20:10:56  <Zuu> wxWidgets has something that looks like a badly written widget for SDL integration.
20:11:01  <OwenS> Heh
20:11:29  <OwenS> (Also, QPainter with the raster graphics system beats SDL and OpenGL speedwise for 2D work)
20:12:05  <glx> there's wxGL, but I never used it
20:12:18  <glx> I did only basic stuff with wxwidget
20:12:32  <Zuu> wxGL looks much better than the SDL widget they have.
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20:13:01  <OwenS> Theres also QGLWidget, which I have very good experiences with
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20:15:02  <OwenS> I notice that a few versions back VLC switched to Qt though :-)
20:17:03  * Zuu would like a VLC version with backward play ability but aparently that would require a big change of VLC.
20:17:08  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19308 /trunk/src/table/settings.h: -Change [FS#3655]: Increase the default small font size for freetype fonts as 6 point fonts are usually unreadable
20:17:31  <OwenS> Zuu: Backward play? That's impossible with most video codecs
20:17:59  <Zuu> It would be usefull when you analyze a video capture.
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20:18:16  <OwenS> Well, impossible to do in real time. You'd have to decode ~ 100 frames in one go
20:18:19  <glx> if at least they could get the total time and current position for TS files
20:18:34  <glx> even WMP can do that
20:18:51  <Zuu> Though, I'm happy that vlc have fast forward at least. watched through 7-8 hours of captured movies today in just 1-2 hours. :-)
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20:19:05  * OwenS has a script which takes a .m2ts file and converts it to mkv for that and other reasons
20:19:20  <OwenS> (Other reasons = otherwise mplayer can't find DVD subtitles for some bizzare reason!)
20:20:19  <glx> I use TS2MPG for that (no subtiltles and fix mpeg2 stream errors)
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20:20:54  <glx> for h264 TS it's a different story :)
20:21:31  <OwenS> My m2ts files tend to be MPEG-2 raw DVD rips. I must admit I don't have any raw BD rips, primarily because I lack a drive :p
20:22:19  <OwenS> (Also, BD+ is bloody smart copy protection)
20:24:39  <OwenS> (In fact by all accounts, it's actually doing what it's supposed to do pretty well
20:26:15  <glx> I have 2 kinds of .TS (both from IPTV recordings)
20:26:38  <glx> mpeg2 and h264
20:27:34  <OwenS> Heh. Interestingly, our cable provider uses HD MPEG-2
20:28:17  <glx> IIRC HD is h264 but I don't have enough bandwidth for that :)
20:29:11  <OwenS> Nah; our set top box is recieving 1080i MPEG-2
20:29:33  <glx> mine could, but I need a better ADSL ;)
20:30:00  <glx> but I think they use h264 for HD
20:30:04  <OwenS> Turns out that Telewest, in their infinite wisdom, deployed their HD set-top box without a H.264 decoder, and ~4 years later Virgin Media are now saddled with the fact that they have thousands out there who can't get H.264
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20:30:24  <OwenS> At least since it's going over cable they have the bandwidth to pump up the bitrates
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20:33:11  <Zuu> YAFS patch @ FS :-p
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20:38:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19309 /trunk/bin/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Update: base set translations for Arabic, Catalan and Norwegian (Nynorsk)
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20:39:43  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19310 /branches/1.0/ (23 files in 4 dirs): [1.0] -Backport from trunk: language updates
20:39:46  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
20:42:03  <Zuu> hello Nite_Owl
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20:42:20  <Nite_Owl> Hello Zuu
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20:49:28  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r19311 /trunk/bin/gm/orig_win.obm: -Fix (r19181): further wrong translations
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22:06:26  <OwenS> Anyone got any suggestions on how to track down what code is printing to the console without my authorisation? :p
22:07:40  <Rubidium> LD_PRELOAD?
22:08:17  <OwenS> No, I've lost track of where in my program is printing to the console some cryptic lines like "f v" :p
22:10:14  <OwenS> I've tried breaking on write, but it seems glibc does funny things with symbols
22:10:23  <OwenS> Though LD_PRELOAD gives me an idea...
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22:12:08  <OwenS> No, LD_PRELOADING a lib with a write() doesn't work :-(
22:12:56  <Rubidium> but it does work for malloc, so why wouldn't it work with printf et al?
22:13:19  <OwenS> Perhaps write is declared inline?
22:14:33  <Rubidium> or a macro or something?
22:15:09  <OwenS> I don't know if it's calling printf, puts, putc or what :-(
22:15:31  <Rubidium> then strace it
22:15:39  <OwenS> All those turn into write()s
22:17:49  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:28:35  <TrueBrain> maybe you should use LD_PRELOAD, not LD_PRELOADING :p
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22:31:05  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Thats what I did :P I found it in the end. In my String class, of all places...
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22:36:12  * OwenS was worried that his interpreter was over 1 million times slower than C for a moment. Then he realised GCC is probably cheating :p
22:37:01  <SmatZ> gcc is cheating?
22:37:09  <OwenS> constant folding :P
22:37:13  <SmatZ> hehe
22:38:09  <TrueBrain> that is just clever
22:38:14  <SmatZ> I wonder that wasn't the first optimisation you implemented :)
22:39:19  <OwenS> SmatZ: Constant folding and function inlining ;-)
22:39:50  <SmatZ> :)
22:39:58  <SmatZ> well, constant folding should be trivial
22:40:04  <OwenS> Also, I haven't implemented any optimizers yet, but yes
22:40:25  <OwenS> I need to implement an expression reorder pass and then constant folding
22:41:09  <OwenS> (Reorder changes "(((a + b) + c) + 5) + 6" into "(((a + b) + c) + (5 + 6))" so that constant folding is easier :p
22:41:43  <SmatZ> it can be tricky, especially with floats
22:41:49  <OwenS> Oh indeed
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22:46:32  <OwenS> Hmm, I'm presently about 20 times slower than Lua *breaks out profiler*
22:48:19  <insulfrog> cyas
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22:48:49  <OwenS> |'m definitely expecting the hotspot to be inside AS::ASI::Interpreter::interpret(), but where inside there is the question :p
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22:51:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i hope that's not a 1000 loc function :p
22:52:09  <Rubidium> nah, rather a 100kloc :)
22:52:11  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: I'll admit, it's an 1000 line switch on the bytecode opcodes :p
22:52:43  <Eddi|zuHause> you have 1000 opcodes?
22:52:53  <OwenS> No, more like ~35 at the moment
22:53:10  <Eddi|zuHause> so that should be at most a 35 line switch...
22:53:33  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: While I could break it out, I don't really see a readability advantage here
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22:53:58  <OwenS> But I do see a significant and proven speed disadvantage
22:54:00  <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: but readability is not your problem. profilability is...
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22:54:21  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: It's not going to be an instruction taking the time; it will be one of the trees of functions an instruction calls
22:57:07  <OwenS> ls: reading directory /boot/: Input/output error <-- ?!?!
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22:58:14  <Priski> argh, anyone uses this openid crap?
22:59:22  <OwenS> wtf? e2fsck can't read from /dev/sdb1
23:00:25  <OwenS> FUCK FUCK FUCK
23:00:32  <OwenS> mdadm reporting sdb as faulty spare
23:01:16  <OwenS> brb... maybe
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23:05:57  <fro> Hello?
23:06:10  <valhalla1w> BOOH!
23:06:22  <fro> Can you help me?
23:06:23  * valhalla1w runs around #openttd with a scream mask on
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23:07:15  <fro> I need help
23:07:15  *** Lakie [~Lakie@] has quit [Quit: Sleep.]
23:07:49  <valhalla1w> although it's not in the topic: don't ask to ask, ask
23:08:01  <valhalla1w> and if someone has an answer and wants to respond, he, she or it will.
23:08:16  *** valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw
23:08:49  <fro> Why cant i build banks?
23:08:57  <fro> or any other city improvement
23:11:30  <Yexo> banks are industries, you can enable building industries in the advanced settings
23:11:53  <Eddi|zuHause> this is not sim city
23:12:20  <fro> Thank you yexo
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23:14:40  <OwenS`Phone> Device health assesment: Failure imminent
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23:24:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19312 /branches/1.0/ (12 files in 9 dirs):
23:24:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
23:24:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Feature: [YAPF] Consider the railtype imposed speed limit for pathfinding (r19301)
23:24:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Change: Increase the default small font size for freetype fonts as 6 point fonts are usually unreadable [FS#3655] (r19308)
23:24:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Change: [NewGRF] Railtype cost factor from byte to word value (r19306)
23:24:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Disable sound when a sound error happens instead of crashing [FS#3652] (r19304)
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23:30:16  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19313 /tags/1.0.0-RC2/ (5 files in 4 dirs): -Release: 1.0.0-RC2
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23:56:01  <Terkhen> good night
23:56:06  <planetmaker> Yexo, are varaction2 actually already defined in trunk OpenTTD
23:56:10  *** Terkhen [] has quit [Quit: ...]
23:56:11  <planetmaker> good night Terkhen
23:56:33  <Yexo> planetmaker: varaction2 for which feature?
23:56:41  <planetmaker> err.. airport tiles
23:56:47  <Yexo> yes, sinse r19200
23:57:06  <SmatZ> @openttd commit 19200
23:57:07  <planetmaker> ok. I'll just modify the industry tiles page. It's 100% the same except var40
23:57:09  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by yexo :: r19200 /trunk/docs (landscape.html landscape_grid.html) (2010-02-22 14:17:26 UTC)
23:57:10  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Doc: update the map array documentation
23:57:27  <planetmaker> haha :-)
23:57:31  <Yexo> planetmaker: you mean add airport informatino to the industry tile page?
23:57:50  <planetmaker> yes
23:57:54  <Yexo> please don't, the airport page might be expanded in the future
23:58:23  <planetmaker> hm, ok, then I'll make a 100% copy minus var40 and s/industry/airport/ ;-)
23:58:25  <Yexo> hmm, on the other hand, action2 houses and industry tiles also share a page
23:58:35  <Yexo> so it should be fine
23:58:47  <planetmaker> it could still be separated...
23:59:00  <Yexo> do whatever you prefer :)
23:59:13  <planetmaker> and soothes the "this wiki must be kept small and non-redundant" people ;-)
23:59:45  <Yexo> you should update nutracks btw, since r19306 prop 13 is a word, not a byte
23:59:46  <planetmaker> one page is it then for now
23:59:52  <Yexo> thanks :)
23:59:56  <planetmaker> I did update the wiki

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