Log for #openttd on 15th March 2010:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:03  <SpComb^> indeed, so I would think as well
00:00:03  <Rubidium> sounds like a stupid patch if it doesn't do so
00:00:20  <SpComb^> this worked fine with MSYS-1.0.10, but now that I upgraded to 1.0.11, patch went haywire
00:00:23  <OwenS> planetmaker: A friend of mine recently had to deal with Mac Roman files. How the hell the person managed to get Mac Roman on OS X I have no idea
00:00:26  <SpComb^> but I need 1.0.11 for the bash 3.x
00:00:50  <Rubidium> OwenS: Mac Roman? Did they make Macs 2000 years ago?
00:01:04  <OwenS> Rubidium: Mac Roman = Apple's latin charset :p
00:01:09  <OwenS> (Apple's old latin charset)
00:01:19  <planetmaker> hu, OwenS ? You mean the encoding? But that's not a line ending. But it seems some kind of silly default
00:01:29  <planetmaker> and no, not old. Still...
00:01:51  <OwenS> planetmaker: It was some 3rd party silly text editor. And my understanding is that Mac Roman is deprecated in favor of UTF-8
00:02:08  <planetmaker> Well, I come across it regularily.
00:02:29  <SpComb^> <-- apparently some patch versions exhibit the same behavior
00:02:31  <OwenS> People using silly text editors ;-)
00:02:46  <SpComb^> the .patch itself doesn't have \r, but perhaps patch is opening it up in text mode, and windows is inserting \r's
00:02:50  <planetmaker> well... like TextEdit (equiv. to word pad?)
00:03:04  <planetmaker> s/?)/)?/
00:03:19  <OwenS> planetmaker: Probably. I haven't touched a mac for ~2 years, and even then, not mine, and only for a short period
00:03:24  <Rubidium> SpComb^: actually, the libraries of mingw/msys? seem to occasionally have a habit of doing that
00:03:35  <planetmaker> well. I tell you, OwenS. I write to you right now from one ;-)
00:04:02  <OwenS> SpComb^: If it's opened in text mode, Windows would be *removing* \r's
00:04:21  <SpComb^> I think the files in the repo have \r\n, and the .patch \n
00:05:06  <SpComb^> hmm yes, if I run dos2unix on the file in the svn wc, then it applies the patch...
00:05:37  <SpComb^> ugh, I wonder what workaround this needs...
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00:11:15  <SpComb^> it's stripping the \r's from the .patch (even with --binary), but it's reading the \r's from the file, and failing the hunks :/
00:12:26  <Ammler> <-- what kind of house is that?
00:12:56  <Rubidium> ahaus?
00:13:03  <OwenS> Ammler: To me it looks like a tower built on a western saloon
00:13:25  <planetmaker> turn of century appartement building to me
00:13:48  <planetmaker> -p
00:15:48  <KenjiE20> isn't that a cinema? an art deco cinema to be more accurate
00:16:46  <SpComb^>
00:16:49  <Rubidium> @base 10 16 4479
00:16:49  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 117F
00:17:56  <Rubidium> @calc (1150-28)/16
00:17:56  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 70.125
00:18:21  <Ammler> "shops and offices"
00:18:40  <Rubidium> @base 10 16 70
00:18:40  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 46
00:19:05  <Ammler> <-- could use a better opengfx altenative
00:19:11  <Rubidium> Ammler: STR_TOWN_BUILDING_NAME_SHOPS_AND_OFFICES_1 to be precise :)
00:19:19  <Rubidium> there are 2 other strings
00:20:30  <Ammler> he, and now, I see the glitch
00:20:44  <Ammler> I wondered all the time, why I need to replace those :-)
00:21:03  <Rubidium> that's GOOD :)
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00:21:33  <Ammler> :-P
00:22:09  <SpComb^> well, updating to patch 2.5.9 helps
00:22:30  <SpComb^> according to that bug report, patch is supposed to fail with an UNIX patch file, and a DOS source file
00:22:50  <SpComb^> but it's very confusing
00:23:21  <Rubidium> not even using patch 2.6?
00:23:32  <Ammler> and how do I find the snowy variant of that house?
00:23:42  <SpComb^> GnuWin32 has 2.5.9
00:24:10  <PeterT> Happy belated Pi day
00:24:24  <Zuu> After long time, I've now added a file cache to the OpenTTD AU server, so finger shouldn't get as many hits as before. Only if the cache is older than 5 minutes it will connect to the finger server.
00:25:43  <Rubidium> Ammler: you won't find the snowy variant
00:25:53  <Rubidium> Ammler: HZ_SUBARTC_BELOW
00:27:01  <Rubidium> @base 16 10 11e1
00:27:01  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 4577
00:27:18  <Ammler> yes, thanks :-)
00:27:29  <Rubidium> hmm, it's another house:
00:27:35  <Ammler>,4577
00:27:45  <Ammler> no, it is right...
00:28:49  <Zuu> That said, if the all requests would have been evenly distributed this cache will not help. As there is 31536000 seconds a year, but I wouldn't guess that the AU server has generated more than maximum 50 000 hits a year.
00:30:13  <SpComb^> argh, and there's also a difference between `cat foo.patch | patch` and `patch -i foo.patch`
00:30:35  <Ammler> and patch < foo.patch ?
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00:30:52  <Rubidium> SpComb^: the former is evil but works, the latter is 'as it should' but doesn't work, right?
00:31:18  <SpComb^> yes
00:32:25  <SpComb^> with < .patch and -i .patch it gets the first hunk partially, but then it thinks that the rest of it is supposed to be a patch header
00:32:33  <SpComb^> how very broken
00:32:45  <SpComb^> I also got it to assert
00:33:18  <SpComb^> with `patch -p1 -i ...patch`
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00:34:11  <SpComb^> oh, with `--verbose` it doesn't crash, but does the corrupt-header-in-the-middle-of-the-hunk thing, without --verbose, it just crashes - for both -i and < foo
00:34:15  <PeterT> thanks for "fixing" the wiki
00:35:16  <SpComb^> the main issue is that MSYS 1.0.10 is from 2004
00:35:22  <SpComb^> 1.0.11 is from 2009
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00:41:10  <SpComb^> guess it's time to scrap msys and go to cygwin
00:41:13  <SpComb^> I'll revert the wiki
00:42:05  <Ammler> on cygwin, you will get other issues...
00:42:18  <SpComb^> at least it's still maintained
00:42:40  <PeterT> I think Rubidium deleted the previous cygwin wiki
00:42:42  <Rubidium> "fixing" says the person that added "For help with compiling on various platforms, join #openttd.compile" in the hope he could make that channel useful only to remove it from some, but not all, pages a while later or leave a link to #openttd. Please make up your mind yourself when changing the wiki, if so do it consistently and making a mistake is fine as long as you clean up all of the mess
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00:44:57  <SpComb^> the IPv6 addresses look funky on the wiki's history page...
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00:50:46  <Rubidium> SpComb^: yeah, IPv6 is cool'n'funky
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00:57:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i just got this strange idea... if Nite was registering that nick, he could kick all people using Nite as a prefix...
00:58:35  <SpComb^> how so?
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01:02:01  <planetmaker> can I kick everyone starting with pm? I doubt...
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01:09:59  <Ammler> planetmaker: you could kick everyone speaking about pm but not meaning you
01:10:49  <Rubidium> Ammler: only after noon
01:11:02  <Zuu> even speaking using pm?
01:11:12  <Ammler> there is no pm on irc
01:11:25  <Ammler> well, except pm :-)
01:11:48  <Zuu> well /msg is kind of like pms
01:11:52  <planetmaker> :-P
01:12:25  *** Ammler was kicked from #openttd by Rubidium [you told planetmaker what he could do, but he does not have the right to do it, so I will do it for him]
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01:12:57  <Ammler> Zuu: that is query
01:13:10  <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: pre menstrual syndrome?
01:13:35  <Zuu> hehe, yep, I though of that connection too. :-)
01:14:05  <Zuu> Was trying to find out if it was only a Swedish abrivation or international.
01:14:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: what's your affection with sellerie? :)
01:14:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: i have never heard a german use that abbreviation
01:14:48  <Eddi|zuHause> only in english...
01:14:59  <Rubidium> Ammler: may we also not speak about something that has a pm that isn't 'your' pm?
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01:16:10  <Ammler> its pm's pm :-P
01:16:17  <Ammler> '
01:17:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not trying to imagine pm with pms...
01:19:22  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: not trying or trying not to? :p
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01:22:13  * OwenS wonders how the "Sea Sheperd"s haven't been arrested and locked up yet for terrorism
01:24:26  <Eddi|zuHause> what's that?
01:25:11  <Eddi|zuHause> in germany there's a court ruling that burning a police car is not terrorism :)
01:25:46  <SpComb^> wow, cygwin's bash fails to execute .sh scripts with \r\n line endings per default...
01:25:50  <Rubidium> OwenS: some are American, USA does think hunting whales is bad, Japan thinks hunting whales is good, Sea thingy tries to stop Japanese fishers. Japan taking them as prisoners mean the USA comes to get them, so taking prisoners doesn't work.
01:25:57  <SpComb^> that's madness
01:26:07  <OwenS> They're the people who keep attacking the Japanese "research" whaling vessels. No matter your opinion on the matter, crashing your boats into them is not the correct way about it
01:26:16  <SpComb^> someone go bonk the cygwin devs on the head until they develop some sense
01:26:20  <OwenS> Rubidium: Sea Shepherd are from NZ it seems
01:26:54  <Rubidium> OwenS: but it has to be said, the crashing happens from both sides
01:27:09  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: use linux.
01:27:16  <SpComb^> Eddi|zuHause: port MSVC to linux
01:27:23  <_newage_> xD
01:27:23  <OwenS> Rubidium: Not really. Their latest antics indicate delibirate intention to make it look like the whalers crashed into them, while video shows otherwise
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01:27:57  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: i think i once run the msvc compiler under wine
01:28:08  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: MSVC6-ish probably
01:28:11  <Eddi|zuHause> (not the IDE)
01:28:30  <SpComb^> I don't see why cygwin couldn't just fix their bash to handle \r\n's per default
01:28:34  <Eddi|zuHause> 2008 express, i think...
01:28:40  <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely sure
01:28:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i couldn't properly install it, though
01:29:08  <Eddi|zuHause> although winetricks did have the option to do so
01:29:17  <Rubidium> oh, it works now?
01:29:31  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it ran, i'm not sure if it actually worked...
01:30:15  <Rubidium> because that would be more or less good news for the compile farm I'd say
01:30:22  <Rubidium> no more need for VirtualBox :)
01:31:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea how to open the project files, though... so a makefile could be more useful
01:31:40  <OwenS> You should all go CMake, it can generate nmake files :p
01:31:49  <Eddi|zuHause> and it had some crazy stuff with case sensitive filenames...
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01:41:12  <Rubidium> oh boy... I fear we really need to start making Ubuntu packages if we don't want to have whining Ubuntu users (or in other words: Squeeze is likely to not ship the same ICU as Ubuntu again)
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01:45:50  <FauxFaux> Statically link icu, it's only tens of megs!
01:46:03  <FauxFaux> Bonus points for making the debian people unbelievably sad.
01:46:42  <OwenS> FauxFaux: ICU's size is tables in external files
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01:47:08  <FauxFaux> Statically link and bundle ICU? :)
01:47:14  <OwenS> hehe
01:47:18  <OwenS> anyway, with that, goodnight
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01:56:02  <Eddi|zuHause> FauxFaux: i believe the generic binaries statically link to libicu
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01:57:43  <SpComb^> fonsinchen: I was admiring your SaveLoadVersion enum a while ago
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02:06:19  <SpComb^> hmm, the git-svn exports of the branches don't share any history with the trunk repo :/
02:07:21  <Rubidium> guess hg2svn is to blame :)
02:09:31  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: you're right
02:09:45  <SpComb^> makes git merges... painful
02:09:52  <SpComb^> I guess it's rebase time
02:10:56  <Eddi|zuHause> why are the ubuntu users the whiniest of all? i have never heard anyone complain about lack of opensuse or fedora packages
02:11:36  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: because ".deb" means "ubuntu package"
02:16:42  <SpComb^> hmm... guess it's time to give up trying to apply cargodist and others to the 1.0 branch
02:16:54  <fonsinchen> uh, sorry, I was sort of absent ...
02:17:00  <SpComb^> not going to work without the shared history
02:17:45  <fonsinchen> you should try to apply a version of cargodist from the time when 1.0 was branched from trunk
02:18:28  <SpComb^> it would be a `git diff | git apply` job :/
02:18:36  <SpComb^> I guess it isn't really worth it
02:19:15  <fonsinchen> I would create a git branch with 1.0
02:19:22  <fonsinchen> (clean 1.0)
02:19:35  <fonsinchen> then I'd checkout the last cargodist from before 1.0
02:19:45  <fonsinchen> then I'd merge the 1.0 branch into that
02:19:55  <SpComb^> merge as in `git merge`?
02:20:00  <fonsinchen> yes
02:20:15  <SpComb^> the 1.0.git and trunk.git from don't have any shared history
02:20:27  <fonsinchen> eek
02:20:48  <fonsinchen> so you need to get a diff of branchpoint->current1.0
02:20:58  <fonsinchen> then make a new git branch from that
02:21:09  <SpComb^> something along those lines
02:21:32  <SpComb^> but as I said, I guess it isn't really worth it, just for the symbolic goodness of having a release-numbered build
02:22:01  <SpComb^> although maybe I'll just try it once, to see how much of a chore it ends up being
02:24:04  <fonsinchen> well, good luck
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05:21:19  <DanMacK> !seen Pikka
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08:02:41  <Terkhen> good morning
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09:53:56  <andythenorth> so an industry can access variables of the town it belongs to, but can a town get info about industries belonging to it?
10:07:42  <Rubidium> no
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10:30:32  * andythenorth stops trying to make power plants do more than they should
10:30:53  <Gorillagram> what's that then?
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10:31:50  <peter1138> you want them to actually power towns? hehe
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10:32:13  <__ln__> i would like them to power elrails
10:32:22  <andythenorth> peter1138: that sort of thing...
10:32:37  <andythenorth> "what's the point of power plants?"
10:32:48  <andythenorth> "the point is to get paid for delivering the coal"
10:32:56  <peter1138> correct
10:33:03  <peter1138> transport game :D
10:33:08  <dih> __ln__: in the form that the power station must process a certian amount of coal in order to provide enough electicity for a certain amount of erails :-P
10:33:39  <dih> so you never want to provide coal with an electric train :-P
10:33:52  <andythenorth> but when I play PBI, I never deliver to power plants.  Coal -> steel mill = get paid, plus more cargo to get paid for (steel)
10:33:52  <__ln__> dih: something like that...
10:33:54  <dih> just in case you have a breakdown and the coal does not reach the powerplant in due time
10:34:18  * andythenorth thinks he has a solution
10:34:33  <andythenorth> (not to elrails)
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10:35:28  <dih> but then you would want to deliver oil to airports :-P
10:35:37  <Pikka> andy: that's why there should be more coal than iron ore, I guess
10:35:52  <dih> or at least the "goods" from an oilrefinery should go to airports
10:36:20  <__ln__> i once made a cosmetic patch that would show the amount of MWh produced by a power station.  was not accepted.
10:36:38  <Jolteon> aww
10:36:41  <Jolteon> that'd have been awesome
10:36:44  <andythenorth> Pikka: even when there's more coal than ore, I just build more steel mills and ore mines :)
10:36:46  <Jolteon> OpenTTD needs more cosmetic things.
10:36:51  <Pikka> I see andy :)
10:36:56  <andythenorth> __ln__: can be done in a grf
10:37:13  <Pikka> yep, they won't accept patches which can be done in grf...
10:37:23  <andythenorth> ECS does it
10:38:29  <Pikka> a new grf of mine has powerplants that produce "MWh of electricity" as a transportable cargo. ;)  maybe not realistic, but eh...
10:38:48  <Pikka> it's a toyland replacement, it doesn't need to be realistic
10:38:58  <__ln__> andythenorth: couldn't be back then, i suppose.  and i know, nowadays everything can be done and is done in grf.  no point for anyone to write C++ code anymore.
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10:39:39  <Jolteon> Pikka: didn't toyland originally have 'batteries' to transport, or something.
10:39:46  <peter1138> see, if the game showed MWh for all powerplants, then that would restrict the values Pikka could use
10:39:59  <peter1138> and then all power plants would have equal efficiency
10:40:11  <Jolteon> I'd love to see more general cosmetic stuff in OpenTTD, not stuff that has a use, just for show.
10:40:17  <Pikka> Jolteon: yep
10:40:23  <andythenorth> Pikka: I had an idea last week for a new route type 'packet transport' - for pipelines etc which have 'flow'
10:40:30  <andythenorth> that would make electricity work as a 'cargo'
10:40:41  <andythenorth> (also for aerial ropeways, conveyor belts etc)
10:40:48  <Pikka> heh
10:41:34  <Pikka> I guess pipelines or electrical wires could work... but couldn't cross other transport routes.
10:41:43  <andythenorth> would need 'bridges'
10:42:15  <peter1138> bridges? shocking
10:43:13  <Jolteon> peter1138 shat himself with surprise.
10:43:44  <andythenorth> Jolteon: any suggestions on cosmetics?
10:43:57  <Pikka> peter1138: if they're electrical wire bridges, possibly.
10:44:03  <Pikka> hur hur hur
10:44:15  <Jolteon> Not really, just small things, like PP's showing what they produce (Based on coal delivered)
10:46:02  <andythenorth> does anyone get really traumatised if units of cargo into an industry has mininal relation to units of cargo out?
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10:47:16  <Jolteon> I just get traumatised by trying my hardest, but never getting 90%+ of what something like a mine produces.
10:48:00  <andythenorth> I don't even look at % transported, it's a boring number
10:48:32  <Pikka> I use it only if I need more of a resource and want to know if I can usefully put another train on that route :)
10:48:47  <Pikka> low% = can take another train
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10:49:54  <HackaLittleBit> mornin
10:50:13  <Noldo> mornin
10:50:38  <andythenorth> I pretty much run road vehicle from every primary industry to ships or trains, that will keep % transported around 67%
10:52:50  <andythenorth> or ships as feeders.  ships are.....goood :)
10:54:53  <andythenorth> does this sound fun (fractions are cargo out for cargo in)
10:54:54  <andythenorth> teel plant may have special efficiency behaviour:
10:54:54  <andythenorth> Iron ore only: 2/8
10:54:54  <andythenorth> Coal only: 2/8
10:54:55  <andythenorth> Scrap metal only: 4/8
10:54:55  <andythenorth> Coal + iron ore: 4/8
10:54:55  <andythenorth> Coal + scrap metal: 4/8
10:54:55  <andythenorth> Coal + iron + scrap metal: 8/8
10:55:02  * peter1138 ponders
10:55:26  <andythenorth> oops Coal + scrap metal: 6/8
10:58:23  <andythenorth> I guess I'll just have to code it and see :P
10:59:35  <Jolteon> I'd like to see a GRF that makes new fences around rail tracks.
10:59:39  <Jolteon> current ones are bleh.
11:01:25  <andythenorth> Jolteon: turn them off :)
11:01:32  <andythenorth> north american style railroading
11:01:48  <Jolteon> how xD
11:03:21  <andythenorth>  'spanner' menu - 'full detail displayed' (turn that off)
11:04:01  <Jolteon> o
11:04:58  <peter1138> newgrf railtypes can have per-railtype fences
11:05:34  <Jolteon> In England, the fences are like 2 metres high.
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11:05:40  <Jolteon> (or just non existant for countryside parts)
11:06:09  <Jolteon> hm, is it possible for a GRF to get distance to nearest town, and alter graphics accordingly?
11:06:18  <Jolteon> I.E if it's within x amount of tiles to a town, display fences, if not, no.
11:10:03  <andythenorth> Jolteon: doesn't look like there is a varaction 2 for that
11:10:18  <Jolteon> :(
11:10:35  <andythenorth> seems like it could be quite cpu intensive if every rail tile does that often.  Perhaps it could be cached when the tile is built or something
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11:10:38  <andythenorth> I dunno
11:11:00  * andythenorth makes a cup of tea
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11:12:12  * andythenorth ponders
11:12:48  <andythenorth> option a) take the baby to the park in the sunshine; option b) write industry nfo code
11:13:16  <Rubidium> c) take the baby and laptop to the park and write industry nfo code in the sunshine
11:14:47  <andythenorth> not bad, lateral thinking
11:15:17  <Jolteon> Now we know how OpenTTD is dev'd
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11:20:12  * andythenorth ponders doing some date-based maths in nfo
11:20:16  <andythenorth> not going to happen
11:21:55  <Pikka> it's not hard, andy
11:24:44  <peter1138> hmm, laptop to the park
11:24:53  <peter1138> although i don't think my laptop battery lasts long enough
11:25:12  <Rubidium> so request power sockets next to the benches in the park
11:25:21  <peter1138> and wifi :D
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11:29:47  <andythenorth> Pikka: I'm just using the monthly production cb instead.  who cares if calendar months are a dumb way to decide industry production :D
11:29:58  <andythenorth> monthly production *change* cb that would be
11:30:00  <HackaLittleBit> peter1138: or buy an asus 1000He 8 hours battery life , Nice machine :)
11:30:55  <Jolteon> 8 hours, then after 1 year, 30 minutes?
11:31:06  <peter1138> quite
11:31:12  <andythenorth> "It's Feb 2nd.  You delivered coal on Jan 30th.  But the game doesn't care"
11:31:42  <HackaLittleBit> dunno yet
11:32:30  <peter1138> besides, they're a bit small
11:32:58  * andythenorth has brainache
11:33:10  <peter1138> also i don't have time to sit on park benches coding, heh
11:33:21  <andythenorth> industry production code for more than one cargo is *really* hard once you gradual processing is ruled out
11:33:38  <andythenorth> gradual processing verboten :|
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11:38:37  <peter1138> /home/petern/ottd/trunk2/src/saveload/../ai/ai_gui.hpp:26: error: ‘WL_INFO’ was not declared in this scope
11:38:40  <peter1138> hm
11:38:57  <Rubidium> partial svn up?
11:39:11  <peter1138> nope
11:39:16  <peter1138> /home/petern/ottd/trunk2/src/saveload/../ai/ai_gui.hpp:26: error: ‘ShowErrorMessage’ was not declared in this scope
11:39:19  <peter1138> as well
11:39:42  <andythenorth> Pikka: nfo to check whether a cargo was delivered in the last 30 days?
11:39:48  <Rubidium> oh, you disabled AIs :)
11:39:53  <peter1138> yeah
11:40:07  <peter1138> sorry, didn't realise i had, heh
11:40:28  <andythenorth> hmmm.  register with a value which is +1 every time production cb runs?
11:40:53  <andythenorth> reset it to 0 when cargo is delivered....if value is more than 8, no cargo was delivered in last ~30 days
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11:41:18  <Pikkaaa> it's a shame var B4 is 1920 based and not 0 based :)
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11:45:38  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19426 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_gui.hpp misc.cpp): -Fix: compilation with AIs disabled
11:46:50  <peter1138> :)
11:47:10  <peter1138> Pikkaaa, hysterical raisins, eh?
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11:48:43  <HackaLittleBit> peter1138: whom is the person to talk to about nity gritty in traincontroller, eg line 3285 and next 5 in train_cmd.cpp, I do not exactly understand what it should do :(
11:49:21  *** Pikkaaa [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:49:56  <HackaLittleBit> Is it meant to put train on coorect x,y position before entering tile?
11:50:44  *** Guest1025 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:51:10  <HackaLittleBit> "before"
11:51:14  <Jolteon> er
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11:51:28  <Jolteon> this program thinks OpenAL is related to OpenTTD.
11:51:32  <Jolteon> Which i'm trying to install
11:51:43  <Jolteon> but it claims a programmed called OpenTTD has a dependency to it :|
11:51:59  * Jolteon just uninstalls the fail uninstaller and goes back to the Windows one.
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11:53:56  <OwenS> It's official: It's ISO C++11
11:54:21  <__ln__> pics?
11:54:58  <OwenS> Closest is . The official final comitte draft will be available in the next two weeks. Unless theres a major problem, it will be balloted and ratified within a year
12:04:29  <__ln__> cool
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13:13:48  * roboboy should go to bed
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13:27:47  <Belugas> hello
13:27:51  *** Uresu [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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13:28:52  <HackaLittleBit> hello
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13:29:38  <HackaLittleBit> still in the snow ?
13:30:39  <Belugas> nope
13:30:42  <Belugas> well...
13:30:47  <Belugas> there are still some here and there
13:30:53  <Belugas> but... it's mainly over
13:30:54  <Belugas> yeah!
13:31:13  <HackaLittleBit> yeah summer is comming Yahoooooo
13:31:43  <HackaLittleBit> canooing with the kids
13:32:30  <dih> oh dear
13:32:32  <dih> :-P
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13:36:57  <Belugas> yeah for summer activities!
13:37:24  <Belugas> my son would rather see us canooing then participation but time will ocme ;)
13:37:25  <Belugas> come
13:37:58  <Pikka> gentlemen: canoeing
13:38:53  <dih> echo 0 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu?/online
13:38:55  <dih> :-D
13:39:11  <dih>
13:40:15  <OwenS> dih: My CPU lacks an online parameter :p
13:40:43  <dih> that's boring :-P
13:41:09  <dih> how about using cpufreq then :-D
13:42:33  <OwenS> cat <>/scaling_available_freqs:2400000 2200000 2000000 1800000 1000000
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13:42:38  <OwenS> Or, no less than 1GHz  :P
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13:43:34  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: are you sure?
13:44:01  <OwenS> dih: Apparently it's available on my server, but you'd have to get me the command for OpenSolaris :P
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13:51:49  <Pikka> Eddi|zuHause: am I sure it's canoeing and not canooing?  yes. :)
13:52:25  <dih> OwenS: google ... :-P
13:52:27  <HackaLittleBit> *canoeing
13:52:40  <peter1138> 2800000 2600000 2400000 2200000 2000000 1800000 1000000
13:52:44  <OwenS> dih: It's you that wants to turn off my CPU :P
13:52:44  <peter1138> hurr, i have moar
13:52:56  <OwenS> peter1138: Those frequencies look distinctly AMD :p
13:53:19  <peter1138> yeah, my intel has just "1600000" and "2400000"
13:53:22  <peter1138> which is pretty pathetic
13:53:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't seem to have that option at all...
13:53:46  <peter1138> (actually it has 2GHz and 3Ghz, but... :D)
13:54:34  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like drivemaker's gigabyte -> cpumaker's gigahertz
13:54:46  <OwenS> hehe
13:54:57  <Eddi|zuHause> just add 12% :)
13:55:25  <OwenS> TBH, a drivemakers gigabyte is actually a gigabyte, and the other one is actually a gibibyte :p
13:56:02  <Eddi|zuHause> that's not the problem, but all software actually shows gibibyte...
13:56:09  <Eddi|zuHause> which sounds awful, by the way
13:56:41  <HackaLittleBit> see yah
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13:57:04  <peter1138> OwenS, only because they changed the definition later
13:57:05  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Complain to ISO (IIRC it's ISO anyway)
13:57:18  <OwenS> peter1138: No, giga is an established definition under SI: 10^9
13:57:40  <peter1138> OwenS, how old are you?
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13:57:54  <OwenS> peter1138: The relavence?
13:58:08  <peter1138> Giga has always means 10^9 in SI, yes.
13:58:09  <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: the term "gibibyte" can't be older than 10 years...
13:58:31  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: The fact that the initially used term was ambiguous does not make it less wrong
13:58:32  <peter1138> but Kilo and Mega and Giga, in computer use didn't mean that
13:58:45  <OwenS> peter1138: Thats an overloaded ambiguity. Confusion ensues
13:58:56  <__ln__> let's not forget Jigo
14:00:24  <peter1138> back in the 70s and 80s, nobody was confused
14:00:50  <Eddi|zuHause> back in the 90s, nobody was either...
14:01:08  <peter1138> aye, it was only went harddrives reached a certain size that they started coming in 10^3 sizes
14:01:14  <Eddi|zuHause> only when the "common" people got introduced to the computer, everything was wrong suddenly
14:01:17  <peter1138> s/went/when/
14:01:39  <OwenS> Back then nobody was confused because A) for kilo and mega, it's very close and B) People who used computers understood binary
14:02:31  <peter1138> %age wise the difference is the same
14:02:42  <OwenS> peter1138: No it's not
14:02:53  <Eddi|zuHause> it's an additional 4% per prefix
14:02:58  <peter1138> ah well
14:03:20  <OwenS> Compounding of the 24s ;-)
14:03:27  <peter1138> even so, we still buy ram in GB :D
14:03:46  <OwenS> Thats because computers work in power-of-two address lines ;-)
14:03:53  <Eddi|zuHause> (1000+24)^n ~ (1000+n*24)*1000^(n-1)
14:03:53  <peter1138> obviously
14:04:09  <peter1138> but nobody feels the need to say they're selling 4 Gibibytes of RAM
14:04:31  <peter1138> or 4.29GB
14:04:33  <Eddi|zuHause> they'll make that a law...
14:04:53  <peter1138> 4.295 Gigabytes!
14:04:57  <Eddi|zuHause> just like they made it a law that you can't sell monitors measured in "
14:05:40  <OwenS> Saying it's 4.3GB would be such a great marketing con I'm surprised computer retailers don't do it
14:06:00  <Eddi|zuHause> which is weird anyway... TV screens have been measured in cm for ages, only computer monitors were measured in "
14:06:24  <peter1138> still all inches here
14:07:05  <OwenS> Also, use of kb to mean 1000 bits predates meaning 1024 bits :p
14:07:20  <__ln__> TV and monitor sizes all in inches even here
14:07:35  <peter1138> yeah, but that's bits, not bytes
14:08:21  <peter1138> i don't remember what the point is. the fact is someone came along and decided to redefine it.
14:12:25  <dih> Yexo_: ping ^^
14:12:25  <Eddi|zuHause> ... and with every redefinition there's bound to be people who stick to the old ways...
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14:31:43  <andythenorth> should I put a canoe in FISH?  Capacity?
14:32:09  <Eddi|zuHause> 2 people or 100kg?
14:32:35  <peter1138> heh
14:33:02  <Eddi|zuHause> too bad there is no unit smaller than 1t
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14:35:57  <fonsinchen> 2 people or 1 bag of mail
14:36:47  <fonsinchen> actually only 1 person, the other one is the "driver" :)
14:39:08  <Pikka> eddi: there is
14:40:15  <Pikka> the smallest possible unit in ttd is 62.5kg (which is how much a passenger weighs).  Of course, you then have to configure all vehicles to carry 16 times as many units. ;)
14:42:37  <andythenorth> related: is it annoying when a vehicle carries 100 passengers, but the cargo refit is much lower capacity?  Pikka - you did it in AV8?  I am thinking of doing it for FISH....
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14:44:26  <Pikka> andy: TTD does some crude division/multiplying for passengers, mail and goods.  you use callback 15 to do it properly. :)
14:45:26  <Jolteon> Pikka: wtf.
14:45:29  <Jolteon> 62.5 Kg?
14:45:39  <Jolteon> Thats only 9.84 stone
14:45:56  <andythenorth> almost exactly my weight, how weird
14:45:58  <Jolteon> Thats some pretty light people.
14:46:04  <Pikka> it's also 1/16th of a ton.
14:46:05  <andythenorth> "I am the passenger"
14:46:17  <Jolteon> they're very tall and thin, or small and fat :|
14:46:28  <andythenorth> "And I ride and I ride"
14:46:33  <Jolteon> very tall and skeleton thin, more like
14:46:56  <Pikka> Jolteon: or middling and middling?
14:47:02  <Jolteon> perhaps
14:47:05  <Jolteon> I just checked NHS
14:47:11  <Jolteon> 9.84 stone is slightly underweight :o
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14:47:22  <Jolteon> (for a 6ft male)
14:47:30  <Jolteon> (which is me)
14:47:34  <Pikka> not all your passengers are 6ft males though
14:47:44  <ashb> depends if its a commuter serivce or not
14:47:57  <ashb> i find on the rush hour trains most people are ~6ft males
14:48:02  <Jolteon> true.
14:48:05  <andythenorth> Pikka: do you use cb15 in AV8?
14:48:07  <ashb> certainly a larger proportion are male
14:48:09  <andythenorth> I presumed so
14:48:17  <Pikka> plus, as I've tried to point out, the reason for that number is it's 1000/16, not for any reason of realism.
14:48:25  <Pikka> yes I do andy
14:48:26  <ashb> psh.
14:48:29  <ashb> you and your logic
14:48:44  <Pikka> I use it for just about every refittable vehicle in every set :)
14:48:47  <Eddi|zuHause> <Jolteon> very tall and skeleton thin, more like <-- and they have no baggage :)
14:48:58  <Jolteon> no spare ryres
14:49:00  <Jolteon> er
14:49:01  <Jolteon> tyres
14:49:18  <andythenorth> Pikka: I probably will use it for FISH.  I might add some extra capacity text to the vehicle window though
14:49:29  <Pikka> okay :)
14:49:38  <Jolteon> rofl at one fish being 62.5 kg
14:49:41  <Jolteon> thats one massive fish.
14:49:47  <Jolteon> probably more light-weight shark sized.
14:50:11  <Pikka> well, I generally use callback 15 then property 47 to test the cargo or cargo class, nothing could be simpler. :)
14:50:14  <Eddi|zuHause> FISH is ships
14:50:57  <Jolteon> Pikka: You're a genius at GRFs and what can and can't be done with them, right?
14:51:09  <Pikka> I preferred my ship grf name, "Fission", but FISH is good too. :P
14:51:12  <Rubidium> tuna?
14:51:31  <Pikka> something like that, Jolteon.  it's all there on the wiki though.
14:51:34  <Eddi|zuHause> tuna is fairly large...
14:51:40  <Jolteon> Does anyone know if a GRF can tell the distance between a tile and a town, and alter the graphics displayed relative to it?
14:51:44  <Pikka> tuna are fairly large, too.
14:51:52  <Pikka> depends what's on the tile, Jolteon.
14:51:53  <Jolteon> I want to alter the size of a fence around tracks dependant on how near it is to a town
14:51:58  <Pikka> no, you can't do that.
14:52:12  <Jolteon> In England, a rail fence is generally very tall around cities, getting smaller and smaller (and non existant) deeper into the countryside
14:52:13  <Jolteon> and dang :|
14:52:29  <Pikka> Jolteon: although you could ask someone to make it happen.
14:52:44  <Jolteon> I'm guessing that'd need an edit into OpenTTD (or TTDPs) code, though
14:52:48  <Pikka> yes
14:52:48  <Jolteon> I don't want to cause hassle lol
14:53:05  <Pikka> well it won't happen then. :)
14:53:16  <Jolteon> and I'm guessing if it's rail track with fence needed to check it's surrounding tiles for a city, the CPU usage would increase too.
14:53:34  <roboboy> its the same in NSW and probably othe Aussie states and teritories
14:53:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Jolteon: it's "easy", just add it to src/newgrf_railtype.cpp:RailTypeGetVariable()
14:53:50  <Pikka> depends how often it checked and what exactly it checked for.
14:54:06  <Jolteon> basically if there is a town within 15 to 20 tiles of where the fence was.
14:54:08  <peter1138> yeah, i need to add some bits for rail types
14:54:12  <peter1138> like "is it in a town" kind of thing
14:54:19  <Jolteon> an alter the size of the fence dependant on it
14:54:21  <peter1138> but without having performance suckyness
14:54:28  <Pikka> there you go, Jolteon. :P
14:54:35  <peter1138> Pikka should write it
14:54:46  <Jolteon> so if it's like in a town, tall fence, outside it, smaller fence, if there are no towns within like 35 blocks, call it countryside and have no fence
14:54:50  <Jolteon> Unless it's within a farms fields
14:54:58  <Pikka> unless it's a farm? D:
14:55:04  <Jolteon> then add a fence to protect the farmers and their animals
14:55:06  <Jolteon> yes, :p
14:55:56  <Pikka> peter1138 should know better
14:56:39  <Jolteon> Is there any way to tell the distance between say, industry 1, and industry 2.
14:56:46  <Jolteon> (Whether they are the same industry or not, is not relevant)
14:56:59  <Jolteon> I'm guessing OpenTTD has some sort of detection for it's internal Industry generation, though?
14:57:06  <roboboy> how about checking if there is a LA for the tile?
14:57:31  <roboboy> for the fence thing?
14:57:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Jolteon: each industry has a "location" rectangle
14:58:00  <andythenorth> Jolteon: the industry question - what are you thinking of doing?
14:58:13  <Jolteon> ah, so they don't search around them for another, they just check if there is another within it's own rectangle?
14:58:22  <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: local authority is not stored in the tile
14:58:42  <andythenorth> Jolteon newgrf industries can search for other industries
14:58:46  <andythenorth> sort of
14:58:55  <Jolteon> andythenorth: Was wondering if it was possible to alter town growth ratios dependant on a certain industry being there.
14:59:07  <andythenorth> no
14:59:10  <Jolteon> Much of the 20th century, development was faster for a town if it made certain goods
14:59:20  <Jolteon> My local area only became so big cause of it's massive textile industry.
14:59:29  <Jolteon> Without it, this area would probably still be little villages today.
14:59:33  <andythenorth> hmm
15:00:01  <Jolteon> Would be nice if it was possible to replicate it to a degree in OTTD.
15:00:12  <andythenorth>
15:00:30  <andythenorth> For houses it is possible to see what cargos were recently accepted at nearby stations
15:02:11  <andythenorth> so town growth could depend on an industry shipping certain cargos out.  But I don't think it would make for good gameplay in practict
15:02:16  <andythenorth> practice /s
15:03:50  * roboboy realy should sleep
15:03:57  <roboboy> gnight
15:10:45  <andythenorth> Pikka: are your av8 freight capacities based on real vehicles, or just some multiple you made up in a carefree sorta way?
15:11:38  *** Pikkaaa [] has joined #openttd
15:12:01  <Pikkaaa> andy: mostly just made up.  generally higher than real capacities for aircraft.
15:13:45  <andythenorth> okey cokey
15:14:15  <andythenorth> by the way, if you were thinking of adding any planes with quite a *low* freight capacity, they would suit FIRS nicely.  Choppers work, but are a tad....slow
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15:15:04  <Pikkaaa> is the herc too large? :P
15:15:20  <Pikkaaa> the RL capacity is more like 20t than av8s 60...
15:15:50  <andythenorth> This is very specific to Engineering & Farm Supplies which need small monthly deliveries :)  The DHC8 is quite useful.
15:16:15  *** Pikka [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:16:29  <andythenorth> Pikkaaa I don't know much about planes, but 20t, 400mph would be about right
15:17:05  <andythenorth> or I can just use rv transfers at the end of the route :)
15:18:50  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with openttd is that payment does not account for geographical difficulties
15:19:21  <Pikkaaa> andythenorth? :P
15:19:34  <Pikkaaa> if they're an express cargo, of course...
15:21:00  <andythenorth> Pikka do I need a new AV8?  I don't see that plane :o
15:21:19  <andythenorth> ah hah
15:21:20  <Pikkaaa> it's a genav8 plane
15:21:22  <andythenorth> I see
15:21:34  <andythenorth> they'll do the job very nicely
15:21:45  <andythenorth> what about this flying shed thingy:
15:22:09  <Eddi|zuHause> ships should just have a very low running cost...
15:22:25  <Pikkaaa> may as well go back to basics and use a DC3, andy. :P
15:23:37  <andythenorth> DC3 is Dakota right?
15:23:41  <Pikkaaa> yes
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15:24:13  <andythenorth> funny, I was thinking that would be the ideal thing for delivering tractor parts to remote mines and farms ;)
15:24:28  <Pikkaaa> yep :)
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15:26:39  <andythenorth> oh :o AV8s DC3 isn't available in 2002
15:26:58  <andythenorth> I refer you chaps to my 'secondhand vehicle' idea of yesterday :P
15:27:14  <Pikka> :o
15:27:37  <planetmaker> Pikkaaa, is there a measure for how long (in pixels) the sprites for 8/8, 9/8, ... length train vehicles have to be? 8/8 = 32, so 7/8 = 28? and so on?
15:27:51  <Pikka> well, it should be available up until the 1990s... by which time you have the helicopters and such to take over. ;)
15:28:02  <Pikka> yep planetmaker, it's basically 4*length.
15:28:12  <andythenorth> ahem...and I quote "the only replacement for a DC-3 is another DC-3"
15:28:20  <Pikka>
15:28:22  <andythenorth> now where did that quote come from??
15:28:24  <Pikka> oops, andy :)
15:28:47  <Pikka> still, 1990s, and if you want them longer, turn the vehicles never expire option on! ;)
15:29:00  <planetmaker> thanks, Pikka
15:29:09  <andythenorth> The general av8ion planes are perfect for use with FIRS supply cargos :D
15:29:14  <planetmaker> Pikka, yes, that page is what I look at ;-)
15:29:34  <andythenorth> now I just have to write the bloody FIRS production code  :x
15:29:36  <planetmaker> it just doesn't write lengths in pixels :-P - except in nfo etc
15:30:00  <Pikka> andy, when I get a couple more in there, they'll be useful too :)
15:30:26  <Pikka> like the "Island Hopper"... DHC-6... ;)
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15:33:48  <Ammler> pikka and your 8/8 vehicels don't glitch in tunnels?
15:34:05  <Pikka> don't they? :P
15:34:27  <Ammler> :-)
15:34:36  <Pikka> they probably do a little, yeah.  of course, you can always leave a bigger gap at the ends if that bothers you.
15:34:41  <Eddi|zuHause> afair even the original vehicles glitch in tunnels
15:35:10  <Eddi|zuHause> the ore wagons, i believe
15:41:36  <planetmaker> pikka, what may be the reason, if an 8/8 engine with your template shows fine in the purchase menu, but misses two pixels in the front in the depot view?
15:42:57  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: missing 32-pixel flag?
15:43:20  <Pikka> probably, Eddi|zuHause
15:43:34  <planetmaker> actually... it misses also the top line of pixels most probably...
15:43:38  <planetmaker> eh, 32 pixel flag?
15:44:10  <planetmaker> please tell me more about that :-)
15:44:25  <Pikka>
15:44:35  <Pikka> bit 3 :)
15:44:50  <planetmaker> so... that won't work without? I try to use it in OpenGFX...
15:45:01  <planetmaker> and there I surely cannot use that.
15:45:24  <Eddi|zuHause> the original vehicles are 28 pixels, i believe
15:46:13  <planetmaker> hm, yes... Hm... big problem, I guess. Then I cannot go beyond that :-(
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15:51:31  <Pikka> planetmaker: put the vehicles on the 8/8 templates, but make them only 28px in the horizontal views (and correspondingly shorter in the other views if you like). :)
15:51:46  <Pikka> that will make them match the original TTD vehicles
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15:52:39  <planetmaker> Pikka: thanks, that's what I'll do. What I'm actually doing right now atm :-)
15:53:35  * andythenorth wonders which is harder: writing the nfo for industry code, or figuring out what the code should actually do  :O
15:53:54  <Pikka> tell me about it, andy... lol
15:55:12  <andythenorth> the answer is mostly 'figuring it out'.  The nfo is long as I get help with the crunchy bits :)
15:55:38  <Pikka> hehe
16:00:52  <Pikka> goodnight all
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16:04:34  <Eddi|zuHause> "night"? is he in japan or something?
16:04:53  <Rubidium> more like Australia
16:05:18  <Eddi|zuHause> japan is 7 hours ahead, i believe, so it'd be midnight
16:06:52  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: 17:02 -!- Pikka [] has quit
16:07:06  <Rubidium> he was in Japan for a while a while ago though
16:07:12  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... the IP doesn't show on quits
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16:25:26  <JakeGrimshaw> hello
16:27:03  <TrueBrain> hi JakeGrimshaw
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16:27:58  <Noldo> TrueBrain: did you notice this:
16:28:41  <TrueBrain> I even know who helped win32 compatibility :)
16:29:13  <JakeGrimshaw> is Yexo here ?
16:31:20  *** aber [] has joined #openttd
16:31:41  <andythenorth> @seen Yexo_
16:31:41  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: I have not seen Yexo_.
16:31:48  <andythenorth> @seen Yexo
16:31:48  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 8 hours, 48 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <Yexo> AIIndustry.WhatCargoIsNeededToProceedBeforeThatCargo <- .... at least the naming is clear
16:31:55  *** Yexo_ is now known as Yexo
16:32:04  <peter1138> "doon lunacy" :(
16:32:05  <Yexo> andythenorth: I'm here :)
16:32:07  <peter1138> doon?
16:32:25  <andythenorth> hi hi
16:32:34  <andythenorth> JakeGrimshaw was looking for you
16:32:47  <JakeGrimshaw> yexo, it was you that made me that sleeperAI was it not ?
16:32:53  <Yexo> yes
16:33:01  <JakeGrimshaw> i ran into a bit of a problem
16:33:11  <andythenorth> Yexo...did I mention that I liked your industry placement patch?  I did?  Oh :o
16:33:44  <Yexo> andythenorth: yes, but there was some moer discussion in that topic, can't really remember what though
16:33:58  <andythenorth> all kinds of industry things
16:34:02  <JakeGrimshaw> i went into AI settings, put in 14 sleeperAI's, then went 'play scenario', but 14 random AIs appeared. Then, if you quit the game, AI settings display 14 random AI's again ?
16:34:08  <andythenorth> but the separation patch is pretty good :)
16:34:33  <JakeGrimshaw> this may not be to do with sleeperAI, but I know you are a dab hand with AI anyway so i thought i would ask
16:34:54  <Yexo> the AIs are stored in the savegame and also in the scenario
16:35:01  <JakeGrimshaw> ah
16:35:22  <Yexo> but after you quit the scenario it should've shown 14xsleeperai again
16:35:34  <JakeGrimshaw> nope, it changed itself to random
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16:51:32  <JakeGrimshaw> yexo: if I have normal AIs, but use the 'disable road vehicles from competitors" etc from the Advanced Settings, with this have the same affect as a SleeperAI ?
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16:52:11  <Yexo> JakeGrimshaw: depending on the AIs you'll also have to disable the other vehicle types
16:52:21  <Yexo> and even if you disable a vehicle type the AI can still build infrastructure
16:52:30  <Yexo> it depends on the AI on whether it does that or ot
16:53:01  <JakeGrimshaw> i suppose so yeah
16:53:19  <JakeGrimshaw> so is there any way around having "randomAis" written into the scenario ?
16:53:31  <Yexo> JakeGrimshaw: if you load a scenario and you want a specific ai, just do "start_ai ainame" in the console
16:54:30  <JakeGrimshaw> so if i do that 14 times with sleeperAI, i will get just those ?
16:54:49  <Yexo> yes
16:56:05  <JakeGrimshaw> ahhhh
16:56:07  <JakeGrimshaw> thank you for your help
16:57:34  <JakeGrimshaw> on an unrelated note, would it be unwise to start playing a new scenario now, only to have to start it again when nutracks becomes more complete in a few weeks ?
16:58:13  <andythenorth> JakeGrimshaw: will it be fun?
16:58:21  <Eoin> nutracks?
16:58:43  <andythenorth> JakeGrimshaw: if it will be fun you should play
16:58:53  <andythenorth> if it wont be fun, don't do it :)
17:00:23  <davis> another off-topic question , not sure howto say this , but are there any online servers alike brianetas standard server? I think some people shall remember it.  Alike as in good setup maps/newgrf and nice players. and don't refer me to openttdcoop :P
17:00:33  <JakeGrimshaw>  i mean, will the scenario have to be scrapped when nutracks are updated ? or can you add them in to a running scenario ?
17:01:12  <Eddi|zuHause> JakeGrimshaw: you might end up with stuck trains on incompatible railtypes in the worst case
17:01:30  <JakeGrimshaw> but that would be fixable though right ?
17:01:42  <JakeGrimshaw> i know it isnt advisable changing newgrf's ingame
17:01:43  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly
17:01:57  <Eoin> what is nutracks?
17:01:59  <Eoin> :P
17:02:10  <davis>
17:02:10  <Eddi|zuHause> a nugrf :p
17:03:22  <JakeGrimshaw> i would start it now, but i need NG rails for my scenario
17:06:29  *** Grelouk [] has joined #openttd
17:09:40  <Eoin> ooh
17:09:43  <Eoin> i like this nu tracks
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17:28:40  <martix> hello
17:28:51  <martix> anyone I can ask for help with openttd error?
17:29:34  <blathijs> martix: Just add the question and be patient :-)
17:29:39  <martix> ok
17:30:17  <martix> When I try to start openttd, I get assertion error at line 566, Ive tried to uninstall/reinstall latest RC, but it still gives me the same error
17:30:40  <Rubidium> can you be more specific about what the assertion error?
17:30:41  <martix> how can I make it work again? i dont care if I loose any settings
17:30:44  <martix> yes
17:31:52  <martix> says: assertion failed at line 566 of ..\src\fileio.cpp: f != NULL
17:31:56  <martix> want more?
17:32:14  <martix> I then get message to show report
17:33:25  <martix> but game wont start at all, comes at once I try to start the game
17:33:43  <Rubidium> what OS are you using?
17:33:47  <martix> win7
17:33:54  <martix> it worked fine untill yesterday
17:34:24  <Rubidium> and by a chance did you download some stuff via the in-game download thing?
17:34:42  <martix> Not at the time
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17:34:47  <martix> but I startet a plugin
17:35:03  <martix> was some british city thingie,
17:35:09  <martix> but I have used it before
17:35:13  <martix> without problems
17:35:21  <martix> and wouldnt a uninstall fix that?
17:36:05  <Rubidium> uninstall probably doesn't remove those files
17:36:19  *** Uresu [] has left #openttd [Konversation terminated!]
17:36:23  <martix> where do I find them, then I can manually delete them?
17:36:46  <Rubidium> that's described in section 4.something of the readme
17:37:15  <Rubidium> it's probably on of the files in a folder content_download
17:38:15  <martix> *looking*
17:38:34  <Rubidium> is the computer used by multiple users?
17:38:40  <martix> no
17:39:54  <Rubidium> okay, that makes rights issues less likely. Then I've got no idea what the cause of the problem actually is. I only know that it can find a .tar at one moment but can't open it slightly later.
17:40:28  <martix> hmm
17:41:13  <Rubidium> anyway, I can reproduce it locally with removing any read rights from such a file
17:41:57  <martix> will the file im looking for end at .grf?
17:42:42  <Rubidium> no, it ends with .tar
17:42:48  <martix> ok
17:43:08  <martix> and openttd dosnt put any files(except savegames) in other folder locations?
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17:44:50  <Rubidium> generally not
17:45:17  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19427 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Codechange: gracefully handle the case where we can't open a .tar file.
17:45:31  <martix> ok
17:46:14  <martix> but what I cant understand is why it wont work after uninstall/reinstall:(
17:46:36  <Rubidium> because the file that causes the problem isn't removed from your home directory
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17:46:59  <martix> install it at another directory might help then?
17:47:23  <Rubidium> no, because then it will still be looking in your home directory
17:47:54  <Rubidium> you just need to remove the broken file from there or wait till 1.0.0-RC3
17:48:19  <martix> and home directory is i.e. c:\users\<username> ?
17:48:51  <martix> aha:D
17:48:58  <martix> think ive found some files
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17:58:47  * andythenorth back to looking at industry registers
18:04:54  *** martix [~martix@] has joined #openttd
18:05:02  <martix> hi again
18:05:09  <martix> Just wanted to say that I solved problem
18:05:15  <martix> Thanks alot for help:)
18:05:52  <martix> Problem was: computer synced with my home server, and data files for newgrf had synced with thatone.
18:06:02  <martix> so thanks for getting me on track:)
18:06:27  <martix> I really appreciate the job ur doin with open ttd, so a donation will come soon:)
18:07:31  <Rubidium> okay, nice to hear it's solved
18:07:44  <martix> thank you:)
18:07:49  <martix> have a nice day
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18:30:33  <Jolteon> I just thought of something that'd be kinda neat.
18:30:45  <Jolteon> You know how with stations you can view its catchment area?
18:30:58  <Jolteon> It'd be neat if you could view the 'area' a local council / authority owns.
18:31:09  <Jolteon> So we know exactly the boundaries they claims as their own for 'pleasing' them, so to speak.
18:31:53  * andythenorth Jolteon is right
18:32:01  <andythenorth> :)
18:32:27  <Rubidium> you thought of it or you found the patch that implements that on the forum?
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18:36:16  <Jolteon> Rubidium: thought of it.
18:36:40  <Jolteon> I was screaming at this Single Player game and this damned council being a total b*tch
18:37:41  <Jolteon> I don't know how 'patches' work, anyway :P
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18:44:11  <fjb> The info tool (under the question mark) tells you which local authority (if any) cares for a tile.
18:45:40  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19428 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:40  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:40  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 11 changes by kasakg
18:45:40  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 2 changes by josesun
18:45:40  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: croatian - 14 changes by UnderwaterHesus, VoyagerOne
18:45:42  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
18:45:42  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: greek - 5 changes by fumantsu
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18:59:21  * andythenorth blew up ottd
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19:14:54  <fjb> Poor ottd.
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20:07:12  <ccfreak2k> OFTC keeps forgetting that I identified.
20:13:54  <andythenorth> is it safe to assume a default value of 0 for industry persistent storage?
20:15:50  <frosch123> yes
20:16:01  <frosch123> but not for temporary storage
20:16:55  <andythenorth> thanks
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20:22:19  <Jolteon> bleh, I always de-sync on servers when joining them D:
20:22:40  <Jolteon> Usually when their are players already on it.
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20:30:42  * andythenorth blew up ottd
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20:52:50  <enr1x> hello everyone
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20:54:32  <fjb> hello someone
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20:55:13  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
20:56:20  <PeterT> Hello Nite_Owl
20:56:32  <Nite_Owl> Hello PeterT
20:59:36  <andythenorth> hi hi
20:59:50  <Nite_Owl> Hello andythenorth
21:00:04  <andythenorth> oh renum how I love thee
21:00:55  <andythenorth> renum doesn't like my use of 0 as a value.  solution?  use 1...
21:01:03  <andythenorth> 9.9
21:01:10  <PeterT> <-- fonsinchen, you have a dead link in your report
21:01:26  <andythenorth> to be fair to renum, I think it faces a hard task :)
21:06:59  *** enr1x [~kiike@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:07:35  * frosch123 wonders about facebook's intention to embarrass its users
21:08:46  <Rubidium> isn't a facebook like a facepalm, but with a book instead of a palm?
21:09:05  <frosch123> yeah, also got that impression
21:12:21  <Belugas> night all
21:12:36  <PeterT> good night, Belugas
21:13:03  <Nite_Owl> later Belugas
21:14:54  <Muxy> Yop men
21:16:42  <Nite_Owl> just being courteous
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21:55:17  * andythenorth blew up ottd
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21:59:17  <Zuu> I've blewn up a video analyser tool many times today.
21:59:59  * andythenorth decides that players who want to deliver *insane* amounts of cargo to an industry can basically....piss off :P
22:00:00  <Zuu> There is no documentation what kind of movies it supports, so all I can do is to test and sometimes it crashes and sometimes it does not but the video does not look good. :-)
22:00:22  <andythenorth> I shall take their cargo and put it in some kind dev/null :)
22:00:57  <Zuu> Why not some kind of strike. Eg. the workers put off their work for one month? :-p
22:01:17  * andythenorth ponders the idea
22:01:18  <Eddi|zuHause> that'll teach those coopers :p
22:02:21  <Eddi|zuHause> damn these cats are fast...
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22:09:40  <SirSquidness> andythenorth: I don't want to piss off :( I like my insane amounts of cargo!
22:10:42  <andythenorth> SirSquidness: what counts as insane for you?
22:11:13  <SirSquidness> hitting the cargo per month limit of a factory
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22:11:54  <SirSquidness> next time I try for it, it will be two factories clo7e to each other
22:12:18  <andythenorth> SirSquidness: does that limit happen to be about 21,000 units?
22:12:47  <Eddi|zuHause> great... now i have a wet cat...
22:12:48  <SirSquidness> 27 and a half-ish
22:13:05  <andythenorth> makes sense
22:13:15  <fjb> andythenorth: FIRS textile mill accepts engineering supplies instead of manufacturing supplies.
22:13:49  <andythenorth> fjb: not in recent nightlies ;)
22:14:03  <andythenorth> we're around about r611 or so I think
22:14:08  <andythenorth> there will be new goodies soon as well
22:15:06  <fjb> andythenorth: Oh, this is r611. But the game was created with an earlier version. Maybe that is an left over.
22:15:37  <andythenorth> fjb: yup, some things don't change when the grf changes.
22:15:40  <andythenorth> sorry :)
22:15:41  <andythenorth> SirSquidness: I was going to cater for your needs, but it makes my brain ache.  I can't increase the limit, but I can hold the cargo over and use it for the next production cycle.  But I right now won't because it's quite a bit more code to write :|
22:16:08  <SirSquidness> there's no poinut, really
22:16:38  <SirSquidness> if one month it fikls, it's quite like5y to regularly fi5l
22:17:03  <SirSquidness> so you'll get an ever increasing stockpile
22:17:17  <andythenorth> there's a limit of about 65k on the stockpile anyway
22:17:24  <SirSquidness> until even that hits 27.something
22:17:40  <andythenorth> is the limit you see in default game 27k per month?
22:17:57  <Rubidium> just build a bigger factory
22:18:53  <SirSquidness> 27k<limit<28k
22:19:15  <andythenorth> SirSquidness: but per month?  (question will make sense in a minute)
22:19:25  <SirSquidness> yes
22:19:56  <SirSquidness> the most units per month a factory will output ir that
22:21:50  <andythenorth> ok, so with 'gradual processing' on for newgrf industry, the game has 8 or 9 production cycles per month.  Each of those is limited to to about 21k with 3 input cargos
22:22:43  <andythenorth> so you could drop in about 168k of cargo to a FIRS industry (if my maths is right)
22:22:47  <andythenorth> per month
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22:22:58  <SirSquidness> I need to gdet me that grf
22:23:17  <andythenorth> not finished yet :)
22:23:28  <andythenorth> there is a nightly, but wait for the 0.1 release
22:24:25  <andythenorth> SirSquidness: I haven't tested with *insane* cargo deliveries, I can't be bothered :)
22:24:39  <andythenorth> it should work though
22:25:13  <Rubidium> there's a limit of cargo that can be transported per tile; the per industry limit is 'just' because the number of tiles of the industry
22:25:52  <Eddi|zuHause> it's apparently 255 items of cargo per tile every 256 ticks
22:26:27  <andythenorth> does that limit apply even to newgrf industry?
22:27:12  <Eddi|zuHause> due to the way the tileloop works, the difference of 8 or 9 times a month evens out
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22:27:53  <Rubidium> andythenorth: I assume it does
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22:28:57  <andythenorth> hey ho.  well I did some extra work to try and accommodate insane cargo delivery, but not too much.  If it works, good, if not...someone else can fix it :)
22:30:21  <andythenorth> "Cargo waiting to be processed" is an inappropriate string for what my code is actually doing.  But I need gradual processing :|
22:32:31  * andythenorth blew up ottd.  Again.
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22:41:12  <__ln__> in any case it is interesting where a world famous football player flies for surgery
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22:42:06  <JakeGrimshaw> hello all
22:42:27  <Nite_Owl> Hello JakeGrimshaw
22:43:06  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19429 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: when the title game contains an AIPL block the AI settinsg where overwritten by those from the title game
22:43:42  <JakeGrimshaw> i don't suppose it is known when RC3 is likely to come out ? Are we talking days/weeks/months ?
22:43:51  <andythenorth> closing one ticket seems to require two more to be written :o
22:44:07  <andythenorth> (for FIRS, not RC3)!
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22:47:22  <Yexo> JakeGrimshaw: days/weeks, not months
22:47:41  <PeterT> JakeGrimshaw: April 1st
22:52:53  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19430 /branches/1.0/src/ (11 files in 3 dirs):
22:52:53  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
22:52:53  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] When the title game contains an AIPL block the AI settings where overwritten by those from the title game (r19429)
22:52:53  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Gracefully handle the case where we cannot open a .tar file (r19427)
22:52:54  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: [YAPP] A train on a bridge/tunnel was not always found when checking for trains on a reserved path (r19425)
22:52:54  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] The AI Debug window did not open if an AI or library fails to compile when loading a savegame [FS#3669] (r19395)
22:52:56  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Change: Make the drive through and cargo list consistency checks only run when 'desync' debugging is enabled (r19403, r19398)
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22:54:08  <JakeGrimshaw> oh, ok thanks
22:54:18  <JakeGrimshaw> will nutracks be fixed in RC3 ?
22:56:42  <PeterT> It's not broken, is it?
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22:59:22  <JakeGrimshaw> i thought it wouldnt work in RC2, I got the error that other people got in the thread
22:59:25  <JakeGrimshaw> about Action(0)
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23:26:02  <Terkhen> good night
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23:28:05  <PeterT> andythenorth: BANDIT?
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23:34:13  <Nite_Owl> need to feed - later all
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23:55:11  <iklucas> hi all
23:55:13  <iklucas> #OpenTTDMegaClan
23:55:21  <iklucas> how to join that channel?
23:57:58  <FauxFaux> ...
23:58:08  <iklucas> i am in:) nvm

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