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Log for #openttd on 31st March 2010:
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08:06:53  <planetmaker> moin moin
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10:43:39  <Rubidium> heffer: you're the heffer from the Fedora packaging, right?
10:43:50  <heffer> right
10:44:52  <Rubidium> http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/rpms/openttd-opengfx/devel/openttd-opengfx.spec?revision=1.8&view=markup lines 42-44 are not needed anymore and might even disable sound for people having the real sample.cat
10:45:23  <heffer> Rubidium, great! good news :)
10:45:29  <Rubidium> (not needed anymore with recent 1.0.0 versions though)
10:45:33  <heffer> okay
10:45:43  <heffer> so i'll remove that for F-13 and devel
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10:46:39  <heffer> but RPM wouldn't overwrite that file if it was there already, i believe
10:48:00  <Rubidium> I was more thinking about the case where the right file is in another directory and the size-zero sample.cat is found first, effectively stopping OpenTTD searching for another sample.cat in another directory
10:49:09  <heffer> oh okay. anyway. it will be removed if it's not needed. thanks a lot for the hint.
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10:57:14  <Ammler> heffer, don't you package opensfx? (because of license?)
10:57:35  <heffer> Ammler, correct. at least not for the Fedora main repositories
10:57:42  <heffer> i'm thinking about adding it to RPMFusion
10:57:49  <heffer> but I didn't have the time to do so yet
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11:00:18  <Ammler> Rubidium: maybe we should rename opensfx to freesfx and start a new gpl based opensfx :-)
11:00:53  <Ammler> or is it impossible to get gpl samples?
11:01:01  <blathijs> Ammler: Just replace samples in opensfx and switch the license when all of them are replaced?
11:01:15  <blathijs> It's a lot harder, I've been told
11:03:11  <Rubidium> heffer: next release of OpenGFX and OpenSFX will have a "make check" and includes the expected md5 checksums in the tarball, so you don't need to upload them and "make check" fails if the md5 checksum doesn't match
11:04:06  <peter1138> just make samples yourself
11:04:22  <planetmaker> actually the expected md5 checksums are already in the source releases. Just in a format which doesn't support md5sum -c filename
11:04:29  <Rubidium> Ammler: it's not impossible, there just isn't a good source of GPL (or GPL-able) samples... unless you make the samples yourself
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11:06:03  <heffer> so maybe it would be an option to make a completely free sound set in the long term
11:06:24  <heffer> but i see that it would be hard to have one available in the short term
11:07:14  <Rubidium> given it took years to get these samples together... maybe a good goal for 10.0 :)
11:08:38  <Rubidium> or for 1.0.0 of OpenSFX
11:09:15  <Rubidium> the best samples would be samples that can be licensed under both GPL(v2?) and the current license, to make the migration easier
11:09:27  <planetmaker> yep, indeed.
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11:16:02  <Ammler> well, also Fedora/Debian could be less strct against the samples license
11:16:19  <Ammler> might happen earlier ;-)
11:16:35  <Ammler> strict*
11:17:01  <blathijs> I sincerely doubt that will happen anytime before hell freezes over :-)
11:17:32  <Ammler> :-)
11:17:34  <blathijs> Also, Debian does ship opensfx, but not in their main archive :-)
11:18:38  <Ammler> on the other side, it isn't that bad, if you use mp3 and other restricted formats, you need a kind of 3rd party repo anyway.
11:19:00  <Ammler> I guess, everyone using those distros as desktop has setup that repo.
11:19:50  <blathijs> Ammler: Most people will have, probably. In the case of Debian, it isn't even completely third-party: non-free is supported by the Debian infrastructure as normal, it's just you don't get security support
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11:22:24  <Rubidium> Ammler: how can Fedora/Debian be less strict? The license disallows commercial use; selling Debian/Fedora CDs, even at cost price, can be considered commercial. So in effect them adding OpenSFX to their main repository forbids people from asking money for making CDs of the whole archive
11:22:43  <Ammler> I once "tested" centos on a server, adding rpmforge was one of the first things I did :-)
11:24:10  <Ammler> Rubidium: then I wonder, if suse will do it :-)
11:26:45  <Rubidium> Ammler: likely not
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13:11:02  <Belugas> hello
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13:40:17  <Roger> hi,all
13:40:51  <Rubidium> roger roger :)
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13:42:03  <Eddi|zuHause> why do i have a robot voice in my head now?
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13:42:50  <Roger> src\blitter\../spritecache.h(15) : warning C4200: nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in struct/union
13:42:50  <Roger>  Cannot generate copy-ctor or copy-assignment operator when UDT contains a zero-sized array
13:42:56  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: what does it tell you to do?
13:43:24  <Roger> What is the reason?
13:43:25  <Rubidium> what version?
13:43:35  <Roger> 0.7.2RC2
13:43:37  <Rubidium> of both MSDVC and OpenTTD
13:44:00  <Roger> win ce
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13:44:36  <Rubidium> then I have absolutely no clue
13:45:18  <Roger> ..........:(
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13:46:01  <glx> we don't support wince
13:46:11  <Rubidium> but apparantly the WinCE version of MSVC doesn't like something that normal MSVC supports for eons
13:46:32  <Roger> Windows Mobile 5.0
13:46:42  <glx> not supported either
13:48:53  <Yexo> on the other hand the fix should be simple, the copy constructor and copy-assignment operator are very likely not used, so defining them with just NOT_REACHED() in them should work
13:49:25  <Roger> What a pity!
13:50:00  <Yexo> Roger: "not supported" doesn't mean "it can't work"
13:51:05  <Rubidium> just that we don't know how it works :)
13:51:10  <Rubidium> (or how to fix problems)
13:52:50  <Roger> You said sounds very reasonable..
13:53:28  <Roger> :)
13:54:14  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: because that was the first that came up in my mind when seeing roger?
13:57:41  <Roger> why?
13:58:09  <planetmaker> Roger, otoh: why bother with a version which is... nearly a year old?
13:58:21  <planetmaker> If you compile, you can compile new versions of OpenTTD.
13:58:40  <Rubidium> planetmaker: probably because he found some diff with wince support or so?
13:59:42  <Rubidium> planetmaker: i.e. http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=44537
14:01:00  <Rubidium> although, I think Roger didn't apply the patch
14:02:13  <Roger> yes,right here
14:02:31  <Roger> random_func.hpp(154) : error C3861
14:02:37  <Roger> core/random_func.hpp(178) : error C2440
14:02:57  <Roger> What did I do wrongly on earth?
14:03:12  <peter1138> why... 0.7.2-RC2
14:03:18  <Roger> yes
14:03:29  <peter1138> i mean, 0.7.5 isn't that much different
14:03:46  <Eddi|zuHause> 98% of all patches that apply to 0.7.0 also apply to 0.7.5
14:03:53  <Rubidium> peter1138: because there is a thread on the forum about openttd + wince + 0.7.2-RC2
14:03:56  <peter1138> oh dear
14:04:09  <Roger> oh~
14:05:46  <planetmaker> Roger, you might want to grab 1.0.0 in a week or so ;-)
14:05:56  <planetmaker> Then you might even be able to play that online on servers
14:06:03  <Rubidium> planetmaker: but the patch that he should apply doesn't apply to that
14:06:27  <Rubidium> although, as I said before, I think he didn't apply the patch and thus gets all kinds of problems
14:06:33  <planetmaker> Rubidium, too bad ;-) Does it need a patch for windows CE?
14:06:59  <Rubidium> at least the first is definitely fixed by the patch on the forum (for 0.7.2-RC2)
14:07:03  <Roger> Rubidium,why?
14:07:43  <Rubidium> Roger: +	#pragma warning(disable: 4200)   // "nonstandard extension used : zero-sized array in struct/union" as result of VARARRAY_SIZE not having a value
14:08:03  <Rubidium> you get a warning that is disabled by the patch
14:08:20  <Rubidium> which kinda implies the patch isn't applied
14:11:13  <peter1138> or the pragma doesn't work on some versions of the DE
14:11:16  <Roger> oh~ ok,test
14:11:59  <glx> anyway warnings don't block compilation
14:14:50  <Roger> ok £¬ I try now
14:17:18  <planetmaker> what is all those funny signs you post instead of punctuation characters?
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14:44:33  <Roger> oh~my god~ core/random_func.hpp(154) : error C3861: ¡°OTTD_Random¡±: identifier not found, even with argument-dependent lookup
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16:02:05  <OwenS> "executing cc -dumpmachine" <-- I though you said any C compiler should work. That looks pretty GCC specific
16:04:42  <Rubidium> when?
16:05:09  <OwenS> Yesterday. Well, "anything GCC-like". I guess SunCC isn't GCC like enough
16:05:23  <OwenS> (Even though it accepts ~80% of GCC's extensions)
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17:06:38  <andythenorth> frosch123: I've had an error report for FIRS, could use some advice (anyone else feel free to chip in!)
17:06:39  <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=867894#p867894
17:08:31  <frosch123> i first need to catch the dinner before it gets black :)
17:08:53  <andythenorth> :)
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17:16:30  <planetmaker> andythenorth: first thing: is the report correct?
17:17:08  <Rubidium> andythenorth: the 'again' register/whatever is set to 'do it again' for 10 000 iterations in the action2industries production callback
17:20:23  <frosch123> andythenorth: most likely you did not assign any value to the again register, but assumed it being zeroed. (which it is not)
17:21:11  <frosch123> the bug was then most likely caused by another grf storing something in that temporary register, while in your tests it was unused or so
17:22:00  <andythenorth> thanks
17:22:32  <andythenorth> planetmaker...I don't know if the report is correct....I guess I have to compile that rev with cargo dist to test :o
17:22:41  <andythenorth> don't know if I'll do that though
17:22:49  <planetmaker> andythenorth: cargodist: don't care.
17:22:55  <planetmaker> RC3: do care :-)
17:23:02  <andythenorth> what frosch123 and Rubidium said makes sense
17:23:17  <andythenorth> I don't assign anything to the again register
17:23:24  <planetmaker> :-)
17:24:21  <andythenorth> I don't see the bug in my test game.  Wonder which grf is assigning something to that register :o
17:24:34  <Rubidium> ECS?
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17:24:54  <planetmaker> uhm... jointly with FIRS? They should be utterly incompatible
17:25:48  <andythenorth> depends if he's swapped them on a save game
17:26:02  <andythenorth> I need to learn how the 'again' thing works anyway, so I'll look at that
17:29:13  <andythenorth> it could even be that FIRS is setting something in that register
17:29:45  <andythenorth> if (.e.g) I use register 00, and the cb sets that to 1 every time it runs....instant unclosed loop
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17:38:06  <andythenorth> frosch123: is the production cb action 2 a 'regular' varaction 2 that I could put advanced operators into?
17:38:31  <andythenorth> I figure not, but worth asking...
17:39:30  <frosch123> the action2 itself is only a action2, but you can do in the chain before whatever you want
17:39:46  <andythenorth> that's fine...I was just trying to avoid shuffling some IDs around :o
17:40:00  * andythenorth Yexo industry debug to the rescue :P
17:40:20  <frosch123> you only need to move the production callback id, and put an advvaract2 in the old place
17:40:34  <andythenorth> yup
17:40:44  <andythenorth> got to do it in just a few places
17:40:47  <andythenorth> hmm
17:41:21  <andythenorth> cb was trying to use register 00, which looks to contain a value of 7FFF!
17:41:30  <andythenorth> so it's probably a valid bug report
17:42:01  <andythenorth> wonder why it hasn't blown up my r19515 game?
17:42:49  <andythenorth> unless....
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17:44:29  <andythenorth> doh...register != persistent storage
17:44:41  <andythenorth> dunno what's setting register 0 in that case :o
17:45:28  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19527 /trunk/src/lang/turkish.txt:
17:45:28  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:28  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: turkish - 3 changes by niw3
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18:25:01  <Zuu> hmm, I realize it is quite stupid to try to test how new buttons work with long-word translations when there is no translation yet. :-)
18:26:44  * andythenorth wonders: milk in tanks, or reefers
18:27:57  <OwenS> The greatest question of our time?
18:28:10  <planetmaker> andythenorth: both :-)
18:28:18  <Zuu> white tanks with black cowish dots? :-)
18:28:41  <andythenorth> reefers have a higher speed limit
18:28:48  <planetmaker> and it depends actually: from a farm: in a tanker. From a the diary: in crates
18:29:02  * andythenorth stops boring the rest of you and plays the game unassisted :)
18:29:10  <planetmaker> Zuu: everyone knows that cows are violett and white!
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18:29:49  <planetmaker> at least since Milka
18:30:04  <Zuu> Never herd of Milka.
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18:30:13  <planetmaker> oh. It's a chocolate brand.
18:30:15  <__ln__> well I have
18:30:27  <planetmaker> And their ads feature cows with violett instead of black
18:30:41  <__ln__> purple
18:30:45  <Zuu> Like this: http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/25000/Milka-Cow--25254.jpg ?
18:30:45  <planetmaker> it's so popluar that there are even town children who assume that it's the right thing
18:30:56  <planetmaker> yes
18:30:59  <Zuu> Eh, ok ok
18:31:06  <Zuu> :-)
18:32:03  <planetmaker> it's not the worst chocolate. But not the best either ;-)
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18:33:21  <frosch123> it's nearer the the worst, than to the best
18:33:47  <OwenS> Its American chocolate, what do you expect?
18:33:56  <__ln__> *It's
18:34:00  <frosch123> it is?
18:36:20  <andythenorth> my network is pretty awesome.
18:36:43  <Rubidium> frosch123: Milka is Kraft Foods' best-selling brand of milk chocolate; Kraft Foods' hq is in Northfield, Illinois, US
18:37:07  <andythenorth> hmmm....giant screenshot is a bit big to show off with :o
18:37:20  <OwenS> I wonder if that will change since they bough out Cadbury...
18:37:25  <frosch123> oh, you mean it is owned by an american company. does that make the chocolate american? did they change the receipe?
18:37:41  <OwenS> It was american from the start...
18:37:43  <Belugas> they added more fat
18:37:54  <Zuu> andythenorth: Nice if you want to crash others webbrowsers.
18:37:56  <frosch123> wiki says swiss
18:38:14  <OwenS> Ooh? Somewhat interesting. somewhat.
18:45:00  <frosch123> [20:39] <Belugas> they added more fat <- actually american chocolate is known to be overdozed sweet
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19:04:27  * Belugas nods
19:04:43  <Belugas> which is about the same (biologically speaking) as added fat
19:04:45  <Belugas> kinda
19:04:52  <Belugas> WHERE IS MY COFFEE????
19:05:01  * Belugas runs for his mug
19:05:24  <Rubidium> "real American imitation cheese" ... so it's probably high fructose corn syrup instead of real sugar
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19:15:13  <PeterT> __ln__: You spanish?
19:15:53  <__ln__> PeterT: No.
19:16:01  <PeterT> #openttd-es?
19:16:10  <PeterT> es = espanol, does it not?
19:16:25  <__ln__> That's right.
19:16:44  <PeterT> Why start a spanish channel if you aren't spanish?
19:16:45  <__ln__> I'm not an Englishman either yet I'm on this channel.
19:17:00  <PeterT> This isn't #openttd.en
19:17:11  <__ln__> This is English Only.
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19:17:42  <PeterT> I'm getting the message that you speak spanish then
19:18:00  <__ln__> Besides, I wasn't even the one who started #openttd-es really.
19:18:38  <frosch123> how about #openttd-cp437 then?
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19:27:15  <OwenS> Or #openttd-utf16, for maximum awkwardness and IRC incompatibility?
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19:29:18  <OwenS> (Actually, my favorite encoding is the rather interesting SCSU)
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19:38:25  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: did they dub lost s04e09?
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19:51:17  <PeterT_> would openttd-to-tray be an add-on, or would it need to be programmed in?
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19:52:00  <FauxFaux> /o\
19:52:15  <FauxFaux> Um, wrong window.  You can get 3rd-party apps that trayify things, can't you?
19:53:13  <PeterT_> I'll google it
19:53:21  <Zuu> PeterT: Depends on what you want your tray icon to do.
19:54:00  <Zuu> Ie, if it needs to be a part of OpenTTD or if it shall just issue the KILL command to kill OpenTTD when you right click and select quit :-p
19:54:02  <PeterT_> http://www.actualtools.com/titlebuttons/minimize_to_system_tray_any_program.shtml
19:55:19  <welshdragon> So, in ~12 hours, i predict anopenttd release
19:55:35  <planetmaker> PeterT_: define what OpenTTD-to-tray would offer as opposed to what I don't enjoy now
19:55:39  <Zuu> If you just want to get ride of it from the task bar then you probably will find solutions for that. Or just put it on another desktop.
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19:56:01  <PeterT_> planetmaker: I lost you there, what don't you enjoy?
19:56:05  <welshdragon> i'll wager that, and if i'm right, i'll donate £20 when i can
19:56:27  <PeterT_> welshdragon: yes, if it follows the pattern of the past (major) releases
19:56:38  <PeterT_> Zuu: ok
19:56:53  <planetmaker> [21:51]	<PeterT_>	would openttd-to-tray be an add-on, or would it need to be programmed in? <-- that
19:57:11  <planetmaker> I wonder what you mean or ask for
19:57:22  <Zuu> I think the tray is the small icons to the down-right in Windows
19:57:36  <Zuu> Or up right in Gnome.
19:57:37  <planetmaker> hm... ah. well.
19:57:45  <PeterT_> OpenTTD-to-tray meaning that you could send OpenTTD to the tray place (Windows)
19:57:57  <planetmaker> it's a matter on how to configure your tray, I'd say
19:57:59  <PeterT_> ...and I guess some linux Oses
19:58:03  * andythenorth farms are boring :P
19:58:13  <planetmaker> I'd just drag the application there and it's done...
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19:58:21  <Zuu> That's imho a task for the window manager rather than each application.
19:58:31  <planetmaker> yep ^
19:58:57  <Zuu> And since Windows' window manager is quite lacking of features there is many third party tools to add missing features.
19:59:47  <Zuu> I run two of them at the moment. :-)
20:00:45  * andythenorth deliberately builds an oil refinery in a place that will be hard to build stations for :P
20:00:45  <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/Dundingstone_4.png
20:01:56  <Zuu> Hmm, intresting trams you got there.
20:02:25  <andythenorth> :)
20:02:49  <V453000> o_O
20:02:52  <V453000> what are these
20:02:55  <V453000> never seen such trams
20:03:04  <PeterT_> planetmaker Zuu: http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4581/openttdtray.png
20:03:05  <Prof_Frink> I just tried to scroll the image :(
20:03:21  <PeterT_> V453000: new HEQS(?) trams
20:03:24  <andythenorth> yep
20:03:30  <V453000> aaaaah
20:03:32  <V453000> :)
20:03:33  <V453000> nice
20:03:41  <andythenorth> new HEQS trams - will be released when DanMacK sends me some more wagon sprites :)
20:03:42  <PeterT_> I quite like them
20:03:47  <V453000> awesome
20:03:48  <andythenorth> available in a nightly already
20:04:07  <V453000> then we can make the first Tram-only coop game :D
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20:04:52  <planetmaker> PeterT_: I think that's a function of the try, not of OpenTTD
20:05:03  <planetmaker> at most of openttd's installer
20:05:24  * Zuu decides that it would probably be more annoying than usefull if the sign list scrolls to the (in the sign list) selected sign if someone adds/removes/updates a sign.
20:06:14  <Zuu> (I've made the list selection work more like the content download window to hopefully please the devs)
20:08:32  * andythenorth wonders why canals are approximately 19x more expensive than railroad track :o
20:09:16  <andythenorth> and 2x as expensive as lowering the same land to sea level