Config
Log for #openttd on 6th April 2010:
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01:26:06  <Mazur> Good morning.
01:27:11  <PeterT> Morning, Mazur
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04:01:05  <Mazur> I have a station next to a sawmill, and it's producing goods, yet in the station I see no goods waiting.  Do I need to transport it there from the adjacent sawmill?
04:02:50  <SirSquidness> Is the sawmill in the station's catchement area? ie, does the station say it provides goods?
04:03:01  <SirSquidness> and has something attempted to pick up goods from the statoin before?
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04:05:57  <SpComb> Mazur: the station has to cover enough tiles from the sawmill, and you need to have a train that carries goods waiting at the station
04:06:43  <Mazur> Yes, I just built the train and set it going, and it's loading.
04:07:01  <Mazur> GThought I'd build the goods truck line if needed after.
04:07:30  <SpComb> (train or other vehicle)
04:12:03  <Mazur> B.t.w. I've set Primary production for the time being fundable like secondaries, I'm still too slow setting up the infrastructure to support them.  They kept dying on me before I was ready.  ;-)
04:12:54  <Mazur> When I'm more experienced I'll set it to prospecting again.
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04:20:14  <Mazur> Made my first billion Euro.
04:20:18  <Mazur> :-)
04:22:34  <SirSquidness> good work :)
04:39:00  <Mazur> Hm.  I've just set up passenger and goods delivery to a mall on the other end of a city, and the mall relocates.  Do I have to relocate my bus and goods stop at make sure it's in range or will it resolve itself?
04:39:35  <Mazur> Neither location was in range of the train station.
04:44:15  <Mazur> Relocated it, anyway, joined a new lorry stop at the new location and disconnected/removed the old one.
04:44:30  <Mazur> Same with busstop.
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06:52:28  <Mazur> You know, when adding a dedicated HSL track along existing routes, it helps using signs to remind yourself which pair is HSL and which are for stopping trains.
06:52:59  <Mazur> I discovered I join my planned HSL to a local coal run.
06:53:03  <Mazur> :-)
06:54:08  <Mazur> Had to redo a whole swath of tracks to clean it up.
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07:19:44  <dih> hello :-)
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07:30:14  <Zephyris> Morning all!
07:30:36  <Rubidium> morning y'all
07:30:42  <Zephyris> Feeling the slashdot effect?
07:31:06  <Jupix> oh, they posted it
07:31:15  <Jupix> too bad it wasn't my post
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07:33:59  <SirSquidness> \o/ Merry delayed 1.0.0
07:34:18  <Rubidium> Zephyris: it's still less than when the day beta1 was released and the day after Christmas
07:35:54  <Zephyris> Interesting! A little investigation into the gaming habits of slashdotters...
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07:38:43  <planetmaker> morning
07:38:50  <dih> hey ho sir
07:39:04  <planetmaker> a dih! Moin :-)
07:39:50  <dih> :-)
07:41:10  <planetmaker> [09:34]	<Rubidium>	Zephyris: it's still less than when the day beta1 was released and the day after Christmas <-- you speak of total download count? Interesting...
07:41:28  <Rubidium> planetmaker: no, of server bandwidth
07:41:36  <Rubidium> LW server bandwidth
07:41:38  <planetmaker> ah, ok
07:41:58  <Rubidium> although, the binary download is lower too
07:42:09  <planetmaker> including mirrors?
07:42:57  <Rubidium> the LW server doesn't serve the binaries anymore, so yes... it includes the mirrors
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07:44:23  <planetmaker> hm... interesting, why does beta get more downloads than the stable?
07:45:10  <DDR> Better. :)
07:45:43  <DDR> It's pretty stable itself, it adds great new features. There is really not any disincentive to use it.
07:45:56  <DDR> *to not use it.
07:46:48  *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@119.11.11.240] has quit []
07:46:51  <DDR> Also, I believe the beta is the community standard. Check multiplayer server versions. :)
07:47:27  <planetmaker> DDR: the servers run the stable release mostly. And the betas are not much more than re-labeled nightlies. So I could play those...
07:48:15  <Rubidium> oh, the stats from around Christmas a skewed due to 0.7.5 too :)
07:48:27  <dih> planetmaker: there's just a difference between what you know and what a bunch of people believe to know ^^
07:48:39  <DDR> Hm, it's been a few weeks since I looked into the situation... and downloaded the beta. You know what?
07:48:40  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
07:48:42  <DDR> Ignore me.
07:48:59  <Rubidium> there's almost as many 1.0.0 downloads in a little less than 1 week as 1.0.0-beta1 in those two weeks
07:49:08  <planetmaker> DDR: a few weeks ago stable 1.0 release servers just could not have been running...
07:49:38  <planetmaker> ok, that's more to what I expected, Rubidium :-)
07:49:54  <DDR> Well... I often forget what I had for breakfast, it's probable I've just forgotten what I'm talking about.
07:50:29  <DDR> ***Not a reliable source.***
07:50:39  <Rubidium> [Citation needed]
07:50:51  <peter1138> fff
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07:53:11  <Rubidium> nevertheless, the peak back than is higher than it's now although the bananas download count is significantly higher than during beta1
07:53:43  <Noldo> more new users?
07:54:03  <Rubidium> in 5 days: 200 GiB via LW and 400 GiB via the mirrors
07:54:18  <planetmaker> he
07:54:48  <Rubidium> that's about the bandwidth of April in 2009
07:55:31  * peter1138 waits for everything to swap back in so that it can quit
07:55:35  <lennard> oh, that reminds me, I need to tell you guys some moments in time when the utwente mirror will be unavailable
07:56:17  <lennard> I'll need to look it up, but its over a week from now :)
07:57:42  <Rubidium> lennard: work on the power units?
07:57:52  <lennard> yes
07:57:57  <peter1138> ah, quitting monodevelop drops swap from 3GB used to 0.5GB
07:58:02  <lennard> who told you? :P
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07:58:06  <Rubidium> then it's the 16th and 23rd from 15:00-00:00 UTC
07:58:18  <Rubidium> lennard: http://www.utwente.nl/icts/onderhoudstoring/
07:58:28  <lennard> hmm, true
07:59:17  <lennard> oh my they actually made an app
07:59:20  <lennard> how silly of them
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08:01:46  <lennard> well, at any rate, we plan to have the mirror simply be offline during the maintenance (real time down is from 06:00-09:00 UTC in both cases)
08:01:54  <lennard> err
08:02:01  <lennard> well, at any rate, we plan to have the mirror simply be offline during the maintenance (real time down is from 18:00-21:00 UTC in both cases)
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08:06:08  <Forked> wee.. you made slashdot
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08:22:37  <Rubidium> openttd-1.0.0/src/newgrf_engine.cpp:4133567: error: expected unqualified-id
08:22:50  <Rubidium> somehow I think we don't have that many lines :)
08:24:47  <dih> :-P
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08:25:13  <planetmaker> hehe
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08:32:32  <Terkhen> good morning
08:40:01  <peter1138> what produced that error?
08:40:16  <Rubidium> peter1138: some sparc gcc
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09:17:21  <TrueBrain> we are receiving 6 visits per minute from slashdot .. can anyone go give slashdot a hug? :)
09:18:16  <__ln__> only 6?
09:18:35  <TrueBrain> on average, yes
09:19:10  <TrueBrain> (assuming all have their referer active)
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09:21:23  <TrueBrain> @calc 5691 / 6934
09:21:23  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.820738390539
09:22:41  <blathijs> TrueBrain: 1.0 release was featured on /.?
09:22:47  <TrueBrain> yup
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09:23:42  <blathijs> :-)
09:23:46  <TrueBrain> normally we handle 6 to 7 hits per second. Since 1.0.0 this is between 12 and 16 hits per second. Currently, we are at a rate of 25 hits per second :p
09:24:12  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: are usually much quieter anyway
09:24:24  <TrueBrain> what is?
09:24:30  <Rubidium> nights
09:24:43  <Rubidium> why did I not write that?
09:24:45  <TrueBrain> you really make no sense, I think you typed a partly sentence
09:25:37  <Rubidium> anyhow, 30-35 downloads an hour from 2-5 UTC, 130-140 downloads from 15-19 UTC
09:26:13  <Rubidium> average hourly downloads is 90
09:26:55  <Rubidium> so given the download stats and your averages we're at roughly twice the normal amount
09:27:13  <TrueBrain> euh, make that '25' more like '40' ;)
09:28:01  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: let me put the stats differently: yesterday in the 08:00-08:59 range, there were 70k hits. Today that number was 173k
09:28:43  <TrueBrain> @calc 173075 / 68298
09:28:43  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 2.53411520103
09:28:49  <TrueBrain> 153% increase :)
09:29:40  <TrueBrain> random other stats: Python (Django), serving main website appears relative stable. php-cgi, serving bugs/wiki are having a hard time handling it .. go figure
09:32:58  <blathijs> TrueBrain: The PHP code needs to reinitialize one every request, which probably makes it more heavy
09:33:41  <TrueBrain> which makes PHP suck ass, yes :)
09:36:40  <dih> TrueBrain: got an accelerator?
09:37:29  <TrueBrain> lol: no; and wouldn't help :)
09:37:59  <dih> why would it not help?
09:39:57  <TrueBrain> because the time is not in the compiling. It is in handling and replying to the request, at this rate
09:40:44  <blathijs> and setting up database connections, and processing configuration, etc.  I guess
09:41:11  <TrueBrain> yup
09:41:25  <TrueBrain> Django for example has a MySQL connection ready at all times, mmmuuucccchhhhh faster :)
09:41:41  <dih> yeah, that must be nice :-)
09:42:57  <dih> my php does support persistent connections
09:43:23  <dih> ^^
09:44:21  <TrueBrain> unless you run your php stuff as a stand-alone app, it never really is
09:45:13  <blathijs> TrueBrain: With php-cgi or mod_cgi, the mysql_pconnect would save some trouble of connection setup though
09:45:37  <TrueBrain> blathijs: in return, killing your MySQL because of dangling connections ;)
09:47:29  <dih> i dont use php-cgi but a php module
09:53:41  <TrueBrain> hmm .. funny: the downloads amount went up with the same rate as the hits per second went up, meaning that our normal visitors download as often the game as slashdotters do :p
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10:03:35  <Ammler> traffic of DevZone also doubled since April 1st
10:04:31  <Ammler> from 400 to 900 visits
10:06:01  <TrueBrain> to be expected, I guess
10:06:07  <Ammler> hmm, that is bundles., dev. has also doubled from 500 to 1000, silly,
10:06:27  <TrueBrain> strangly though, this channel hasnt been more empty :p
10:07:59  <Ammler> he someone commented that you should make a installier to include the addons ;-)
10:08:45  <Ammler> oh well, bon appetit :-)
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10:23:52  <Sacro> ooh slashdot
10:24:19  <PeterT> oh Sacro
10:25:00  <dih> oh... fuck!
10:30:59  <Sacro> ?
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10:48:40  <ragzid> any idea why I can't build Junk Yard in Scenario editor? i always says "...site unsuitable". but generating "many random industries" creates it...
10:49:44  <ragzid> (using FIRS)
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10:54:53  <peter1138> speak to george i guess
10:55:01  <planetmaker> rather to andythenorth
10:55:51  <planetmaker> Dunno the pacement rules for those, though. SE should be SE. Maybe it requires vicinity of towns or alike
10:56:13  <glx> or special landscape layout
10:56:28  <planetmaker> seems even more likely.
11:02:19  <ragzid> hmm, now I figured that out... it must be built near the town and enough flat space around
11:05:31  <dih> and what is "enough flat space" ?
11:05:36  <dih> can you define that too?
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11:06:33  <ragzid> maybe 1 or 2 square around
11:06:59  <dih> TrueBrain: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_dbd.html
11:07:21  <Rubidium> dih: ain't no lighty
11:07:29  <dih> oh - ohhh ok
11:07:30  <TrueBrain> who still uses apache :s
11:07:44  <svip> :P Many.
11:07:51  <svip> In fact, most of all webservers.
11:08:05  <TrueBrain> number is reducing fast :)
11:08:19  <svip> :P Well, I just slapped a decent cache engine over Apache.
11:08:27  <svip> So now its slowish hog ain't present anymore.
11:08:42  <dih> svip - define 'decent cache engine'
11:08:46  *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:08:53  <svip> dih: Varnish.
11:09:10  <TrueBrain> Apache is just 55% of all httpds (netcraft, March 2010)
11:10:04  <TrueBrain> 7% is nginx (what we use too)
11:10:25  <svip> I only use Apache out of habit.
11:10:34  <svip> A decent setup will still get you performance, however.
11:10:36  <TrueBrain> stop doing that ;)
11:10:44  <svip> Well, it works. :P
11:10:51  <svip> I have not yet seen a reason to switch.
11:10:58  <TrueBrain> a bike works too. But I dislike driving 100km with it
11:11:13  <svip> Well, I ain't riding my Apache server.
11:11:17  <dih> TrueBrain: can you give me some numbers from the sql server? i.e. statements / second?
11:11:20  <svip> Besides, I isntalled Varnish.
11:11:25  <svip> Which is like installing rockets on your bike.
11:11:33  <svip> installed*
11:11:49  <TrueBrain> svip: so maybe it now is fast, but an even higher chance to miss a turn ;)
11:11:50  <TrueBrain> ghehe :)
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11:12:05  <svip> :P
11:12:19  <svip> It actually performs without a hitch.
11:12:26  <TrueBrain> ;)
11:12:33  <TrueBrain> Apache can work very nice and stuff :)
11:12:42  <TrueBrain> just ... there are faster things out there :)
11:12:44  <svip> I meant Varnish.
11:13:28  *** zachanima [~zach@90.185.77.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:14:24  <svip> It reacts faster than Google's Analytics. :(
11:14:55  <TrueBrain> that aint that hard :)
11:15:04  <dih> you really think that is a good comparison?
11:15:11  <svip> No.
11:15:18  <svip> But I was using Google Analytics.
11:15:20  <dih> i mean, comparing your setup against google? :-P
11:15:21  <svip> And its speed was annoying me.
11:15:48  <TrueBrain> @calc 178211 / 3600
11:15:48  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 49.5030555556
11:15:59  <TrueBrain> 50 hits per second and stable ... I think this setup is working :)
11:16:16  <svip> :)
11:16:50  <TrueBrain> still 150% increase in normal traffic
11:17:17  <svip> Well, so far, we only get like... 200k hits a day.
11:17:21  <TrueBrain> our main server is running at 10 mbit/s .. still plenty to grow :)
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11:18:39  <svip> :)
11:18:41  <TrueBrain> 55 GB to US (from 1st of April), 325 GB to the rest, for binaries.openttd.org
11:18:50  <TrueBrain> this game really isn't catching on in the US :p
11:19:01  <svip> What do Americans know? :P
11:19:47  <svip> o_O
11:19:50  <svip> I don't get webalizer.
11:19:57  <TrueBrain> 73k downloads of release files, of which 25% is most likely 1.0.0 release, so that is almost 20k installs in 6 days time :p
11:19:58  <svip> It only seems to update when it feels like it.
11:20:21  <svip> It just skipped the first three days of this month.
11:20:50  <TrueBrain> nah, I have 31k confirmed, so that number is on the low side ...
11:21:09  <svip> Yeah, my server isn't serving binary files.
11:21:15  <TrueBrain> strangely enough, 2% of the downloads yesterday was for 0.6.3 :s
11:21:15  <svip> It is just serving Futurama information for the people.
11:22:21  <svip> But where else will you find an article like this; http://theinfosphere.org/Dandy_Jim
11:22:25  <dih> we have about 500-600 'useful' statements / second to your sql server
11:22:50  <dih> s/your/our/
11:23:23  <TrueBrain> since 2008-09-14, OpenTTD has been downloaded 1.2M times
11:23:34  <svip> Congratulations. :)
11:23:46  <TrueBrain> 1M releases, 0.13M nightlies
11:23:59  <TrueBrain> we still have a lot to grow :)
11:25:51  <svip> :P indeed.
11:25:59  <svip> And so do we hope to do.
11:26:03  <svip> When Futurama returns this summer.
11:26:45  <dih> and an average of 190 established connections at any given time (according to netstat)
11:27:24  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: 31916 1.0.0 downloads up to 05-04 23:59 UTC
11:30:24  <TrueBrain> atm, on average, 1 person downloads OpenTTD every 6 seconds :p
11:30:36  <TrueBrain> (excluding linux distros and stuff of course :p)
11:38:17  <OwenS> I find that its "only" 0.13M nightlies is unimpressive considering how often people redownload them :-(
11:38:57  <planetmaker> OwenS, I guess that doesn't count the source checkouts.
11:39:04  <OwenS> True
11:39:14  <OwenS> That would be hard considering the multitude of repositories
11:39:39  <ragzid> sync sv->git happens once a day?
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11:40:08  <OwenS> ragzid: every commit
11:40:24  <ragzid> OwenS: thanks
11:41:45  <planetmaker> luckily :-)
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11:48:49  <Rubidium> must say Varnish looks ingenious, but I fear it doesn't do much good. Much of the content it automatically generated (i.e. uncachable), uses cookies (i.e. uncachable) or is already cached
11:49:45  <peter1138> sounds "good"
11:54:01  <Mazur> You know, when you build a double one-way track for stopping trains, it really helps if you maake hte one way path signals on one track facing the opposite way.
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12:00:06  <Mazur> Oh well, I thought it funny when I discovered the error.
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12:07:52  <OwenS> The Itanic continues to sink - MS is officially dropping Itanium from future Windows Server releases
12:09:14  <Rubidium> who cares, as long as OpenTTD compiles & runs on Itanium it's not lost yet
12:09:35  <ddfreyne> heh
12:09:35  <TrueBrain> Itanium was lost before it was released :p
12:14:03  <peter1138> OS X is lost? :)
12:17:08  <svip> What is Itanium and why should I care?
12:17:27  <FauxFaux> A cpu architecture even more insignificant than x86_32.
12:17:44  <svip> So I shouldn't care?
12:18:35  <peter1138> it was intel's original version of a 64 bit platform until amd's trumped it.
12:18:48  <blathijs> Rubidium: OpenTTD will still need an OS to run on, though :-)
12:18:50  <Noldo> what is wrong with it?
12:19:15  <Rubidium> blathijs: that's what's Debian for
12:19:44  <peter1138> Debian's new name: OpenTTDOS
12:20:19  <svip> Just make a LiveCD of a Linux distro which only runs OpenTTD.
12:20:28  <Rubidium> peter1138: shall we at the same time release a DOS version of OpenTTD called OpenTTDOS?
12:20:35  <peter1138> correct
12:20:40  <peter1138> infact
12:20:56  <peter1138> yes, just runfreedos
12:21:01  <blathijs> Rubidium: Ah, we compile on Debian / Itanium, not Windows / Itanium of course :-)
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12:45:44  <KenjiE20> hm, OpenTTD 1.0.0 is on slashdot
12:46:12  <OwenS> And loads of people there are complaining about the old AI *facepalm*
12:46:24  <KenjiE20> it's slashdot
12:46:49  <OwenS> Thats true :p
12:47:25  <KenjiE20> they're only marginally better than youtube commenters
12:48:31  <OwenS> For Youtube, theres Feyntube.js, which replaces the inane drivel with Richard Feynman quotes
12:49:26  <KenjiE20> I just don't ever read them
12:49:35  <ddfreyne> slashdot? :)
12:50:08  <ddfreyne> i cannot help but feel that diagonal bridges/tunnels would make some constructions so much easier
 probably rather hard to write a patch for that, though
12:51:06  <KenjiE20> It's been proposed a couple times on TT-F
12:51:16  <OwenS> Its also very hard
12:51:57  <KenjiE20> it would be awesome though, to be able to built proper flyovers :)
12:52:15  <ddfreyne> yep
12:52:39  <OwenS> And if you're implementing it, you probably just rewrote the map array.. so why not implement lomo-style complex bridges? :P
12:53:04  <ddfreyne> lomo-style complex bridges? needs some explanation :)
12:53:20  <OwenS> Multiple elevation changes, corners, etc
12:53:35  <ddfreyne> oh, sounds fun
12:53:45  <ddfreyne> (that *would* be useful too :P)
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12:54:03  * TrueBrain gives Ammler a hug
12:54:17  <Ammler> thanks :'-(
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13:00:42  <TrueBrain> our httpd just reached 55 hits per second :p (was 35 3 hours ago)
13:01:02  <glx> north america woke up ;)
13:01:03  <Rubidium> oh noes... the server's 15 minute average load has breached 1
13:02:06  <TrueBrain> I really wonder if we wil survive this day without downtime ;)
13:02:23  <planetmaker> :-D
13:02:38  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Its Lighty isn't it? :p
13:03:10  <Rubidium> not exclusively
13:04:00  <OwenS> What is used for the static content then?
13:04:06  <Rubidium> offloading ~20 Mbps to mirrors... lovely
13:04:19  <Rubidium> OwenS: lighty behind nginx I think
13:04:30  <Rubidium> mirror distribution is python behind nginx
13:04:49  <Rubidium> svn over http is apache behind nginx
13:05:07  <OwenS> Using LightHTTPd for the static seems a little silly. As for mirror distribution, I'd be tempted to learn Perl and have it run in-httpd
13:05:55  <Rubidium> OwenS: the mirror distribution is a webserver written in python dedicated to mirroring
13:06:29  <TrueBrain> OwenS: it depends on what you request, but our front httpd is always nginx
13:06:36  <TrueBrain> and using Perl for httpd is stupid
13:06:38  <TrueBrain> there are more efficient ways
13:07:13  <ashb_> less stupid than using ruby(1.8)
13:07:27  <OwenS> ashb_: Python owns Ruby any day :p
13:07:34  <TrueBrain> in what universe?
13:07:55  <OwenS> BTW, did you see the formal proof someone created that Perl is unparsable?
13:07:56  <ashb_> depends on your metrics. in raw thruput ruby sucks huge donkey balls
13:08:30  <TrueBrain> for ruby, you need to be well aware of your software
13:08:31  <ashb_> OwenS: in a context-free-manner, sure. well known inside perl community
13:08:58  <OwenS> ashb_: Not just in a context-free manner. It is completely impossible to parse Perl
13:09:11  <ashb_> well it clearly isn't
13:09:26  <OwenS> ashb_: Why?
13:09:29  <ashb_> what is the defintion of 'parse' there?
13:09:43  <OwenS> ashb_: Compose a syntax tree from the code. Do not execute any of it.
13:10:08  <ashb_> okay if oyu mean parse only and never exec files then okay
13:10:14  <ashb_> s/files/any code at all/
13:10:23  <OwenS> That is the definition of parse ;-)
13:10:39  <ashb_> not strictly. you can parse one file given the right context
13:10:47  <ashb_> the context involves executing some code :)
13:11:06  <OwenS> Parsing Perl is equivilant to solving the Halting Problem ;-)
13:11:09  <ddfreyne> in my experience lighttpd handles static files quite well, but I’m not used to dealing with distribution on this scale
13:11:21  <TrueBrain> lighttpd does it fine
13:11:23  <TrueBrain> nginx does it better
13:11:24  <ashb_> OwenS: only bad perl ;)
13:11:26  <TrueBrain> Apache does it wrong
13:11:42  <ddfreyne> you can’t parse perl unambiguously
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13:11:46  <OwenS> ashb_: Quite common perl actually
13:11:47  <ashb_> and it stems down to bareword method call.
13:11:57  <ashb_> OwenS: thats my defn of bad ;)
13:12:09  <OwenS> nginx owns any httpd server for performance. It just needs better config files
13:12:13  <TrueBrain> ddfreyne: wrongly formulated. You can _always_ parse thing unambigiously. Just it doesn't have to be unambigiously :)
13:12:35  <Rubidium> OwenS: except its performance to "leak" memory
13:12:45  <TrueBrain> OwenS: nginx not
13:12:47  <TrueBrain> lighttpd ;)
13:12:52  <OwenS> Rubidium: Huh? Its lighthttpd which leaks
13:12:53  <TrueBrain> OwenS => Rubidium
13:12:54  <TrueBrain> ;)
13:13:04  <ashb_> i prefer the config of nginx to lighty
13:13:15  <TrueBrain> even under this load, nginx is using 10 MiB RAM :p
13:13:31  <OwenS> ashb_: I have no experience with lighty, but nginx config, while simple, is limited. For example, no nested ifs
13:14:00  <Rubidium> OwenS: you're parsing it incorrectly
13:14:05  <ashb_> not needed that yet. but lighty is harder to parse (as a user) at a glance
13:14:27  <TrueBrain> lighttpd 1.5 had a more sane configure, but .. it seems that is dead
13:14:47  <ashb_> nginx confused the crap out of me at first with its proxy_pass;
13:14:52  <ashb_> it stomps on Host: header
13:15:08  <TrueBrain> Cherokee is best in configure
13:15:10  <blathijs> TrueBrain: That's an interesting thing to say about an unreleased version :-)
13:15:11  <TrueBrain> it comes with a webadmin :)
13:15:29  <TrueBrain> blathijs: why? The part about it being dead? Or more sane configure?
13:15:31  <OwenS> I use nginx exclusively. Except for mailman, which is proxied to apache because mailman sucks balls and uses CGI
13:15:40  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Your use of the past tense in "had" :-)
13:15:58  <TrueBrain> blathijs: well, there was NO development on the 1.5, so I consider it dead, so past tense :)
13:16:23  <blathijs> TrueBrain: But did development really cease? It does have some features I want, so I was hoping they'd finally release sometime soon...
13:16:39  <TrueBrain> what I gathered last time, is that they considered it a brainfart
13:16:47  <TrueBrain> and they continued back on 1.4
13:16:54  <blathijs> hmkay..
13:17:03  <TrueBrain> the are now so far apart ... I wouldn't hold my breath on a 1.5 release .. ever
13:17:17  <jordi> blathijs: have you seen the sparc issue?
13:17:28  <blathijs> jordi: Yeah, Rubidium also spotted it
13:17:31  <Rubidium> jordi: that's IMO a non-issue of OpenTTD
13:17:42  <Rubidium> jordi: just look closely at the line number
13:18:05  <Rubidium> jordi: newgrf_engine.cpp:4133567: error: expected unqualified-id
13:18:07  <ashb_> OwenS: seem the python mail project thiny?
13:18:16  <Rubidium> jordi: i.e. line number 4 million something
13:18:22  <OwenS> ashb_: no
13:18:27  <ashb_> sec
13:18:33  <ashb_> http://lamsonproject.org/ i think
13:19:02  <ashb_> i don't know any details about it other than 'it exists'
13:19:05  <blathijs> jordi: Do you have access to a sparc machine? I was thinking about mailing the sparc porters about this issue / to ask for access.
13:19:08  <jordi> Rubidium: so your editor can't seek to line 4133567? ha ha!
13:19:32  <OwenS> ashb_: I don't want a new mail server. I want a decent mailing list manager :p
13:19:37  <jordi> blathijs: I could ask for access, but I guess a mail to debian-sparc is best
13:19:50  <jordi> OwenS: dude, ngix + mailman for the win
13:19:59  <jordi> +n
13:20:02  <OwenS> jordi: mailman doesn't work with nginx to my knowledge
13:20:26  <OwenS> blathijs/jordi: Considered asking for access to OpenSolaris' dev machines?
13:20:31  <TrueBrain> mailman sucks. period.
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13:21:25  <Rubidium> jordi: no, my editor doesn't have access to 4132377 lines that are not in that file
13:21:38  <jordi> OwenS: http://paste.debian.net/67662/
13:21:42  <blathijs> OwenS: I'd rather try with a machine that runs Debian, since the build failed on Debian
13:22:14  <jordi> blathijs: some good hint would be to compare the GCC versions of the rc3 compile and this one
13:22:15  <OwenS> blathijs: Fair enough. Theres also GCC's compile farm, which is available to OSS projects
13:22:34  <jordi> that, or any tool that generates stiuff during the openttd build, etc.
13:23:06  <jordi> OwenS: if you're interested (and use Debian/Ubuntu), I can give you the package I'll uplooad to Debian eventually (the cgiwrapper)
13:23:37  <jordi> if you don't use Debian/Ubuntu, it's a trivial C file you can compile on your own
13:23:38  <OwenS> jordi: I'm not too bothered at the moment. Its nice to see one of those projects finally producing something viable though
13:23:39  <blathijs> jordi: Hmm, are older logs archived anywhere? Simply changing the version number in the url doesn't seem to work...
13:24:26  <jordi> https://buildd.debian.org/build.php?arch=&pkg=openttd
13:25:04  <jordi> OwenS: if you are, just ping me. the .deb has an example file for mailman. It's a 5 min job
13:25:07  <Rubidium> g++-4.4_4.4.3-5 vs g++-4.4_4.4.3-5
13:25:17  <jordi> yay
13:25:42  <OwenS> jordi: Now if only either Debian or Ubuntu would package a recent nginx version ;-)
13:25:52  *** ashb_ is now known as ashb<