Config
Log for #openttd on 12th April 2010:
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00:09:26  <De_Ghosty> :o ok
00:09:51  <SmatZ> De_Ghosty: do you have recent trunk?
00:10:25  <SmatZ> oh you are not talking about OTTD :)
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00:18:27  <lennard> pfft, I distinctly remember it being three hours before now, when I last looked at the time half an hours ago
00:22:52  <Terkhen> good night
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01:09:49  <XeryusTC> why is gradual_loading not a network save setting anymore?
01:10:06  <XeryusTC> i've never had problems with changing it during a network game before
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01:21:38  <Eddi|zuHause> @openttd commit 19066
01:21:41  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by yexo :: r19066 trunk/src/table/settings.h (2010-02-09 16:22:13 UTC)
01:21:42  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Fix: settings that are part of the "ttdpatch flags" can cause desyncs if they're changed in network games
01:22:18  <Eddi|zuHause> looks to me like newgrfs can read the setting
01:28:12  <XeryusTC> hmm, but every client would update it at the same time, wouldn't they?
01:29:11  <Mazur> For the highest throughput on extremely busy stations, what is in the end the best signalling method, path or pre?
01:29:28  <SekiSelu> Path, IMO
01:30:16  <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: Did you really memorize the openttd commits, or did you search online first?
01:31:13  <Eddi|zuHause> XeryusTC: those details are probably better asked to the author of the commit
01:31:14  <mrruben5> mazur: split up the loading bays in pairs of 4, after that add PBS
01:31:19  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: yes.
01:31:36  <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: yes to which question?
01:31:51  <Eddi|zuHause> to the question you asked.
01:32:23  <PeterT> I asked two questions
01:32:30  <PeterT> Did you really memorize the openttd commits?
01:32:36  <PeterT> Did you search online first?
01:36:50  <Eddi|zuHause> no, you did not.
01:36:51  <Mazur> I ask, because I'm building a replacement station for a going to be extremely busy station, that is both an and of the line and a station along the way, a chimera station, as I call it, and I wish for all the traffic to use all the platforms, but give higher priority on platforms on the "own" side of incoming traffic.
01:37:04  <Eddi|zuHause> there was only one question mark, hence you only asked one question
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01:39:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: for the low to medium stations you should use path signals, to the high throughput ones you have bigger problems than signals...
01:43:29  <Mazur> Which is why I wish to grasp the signal part so finely, early on.
01:44:30  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: svn blame src/table/settings.h | grep gradual | awk '{ system( "svn log -r "  ) }'
01:44:52  <PeterT> Wow.
01:44:58  <PeterT> You know your way around bash tools
01:45:16  <Eddi|zuHause> ... if you think THAT is impressive...
01:48:00  <Mazur> Here's the new project: http:/53551A99.cable.casema.nl/pics/NewStation.png
01:51:47  <Eddi|zuHause> your url is malformatted
01:51:51  <Mazur> Rather http://53551A99.cable.casema.nl/pics/NewStation.png
01:58:29  <Eddi|zuHause> looks very boring...
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02:00:20  <Mazur> Traffic wishing to pass the station by iis going through a tunnel down the middle, so that area is free for But if it's path signals, that handle the highest loads the best, I'll sstick to that, and I know how to do it, I think, it's jjus I saw someone experienced some time agoi claining that sometimes path signals are not tha way to go, or rather, that an exclusive PBS stance is not his.
02:01:17  <Mazur> It is, it's all kids sruff, I'm still a noob.
02:01:34  <Mazur> Still my first game.
02:03:36  <Mazur> But when younger and wiser men are available, I'm not above asking for advice. :-D
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02:15:12  <Mazur> The same without transparancies:  http://53551A99.cable.casema.nl/pics/NewStation2.png
02:32:11  <amalloy> so has anyone else noticed that the FIRS refinery produces half as much output as it should?
02:33:35  <amalloy> or wait, for multi-output industries, maybe i don't understand how the output comes
02:34:11  <amalloy> if the refinery says it will produce 6t for each 8t in, does that mean 6t each of chemicals and fuel, or 3t each?
02:37:38  <amalloy> (if the latter, i humbly submit that that is not enough. it has taken me over a year to fill up a single train's worth of fuel oil)
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02:52:39  <devilsadvocate> amalloy, oil is expensive!
02:52:47  <devilsadvocate> fossil fuels and the such
02:57:40  <Eddi|zuHause> amalloy: i believe andythenorth wondered about that earlier
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03:04:50  * fjb wonders how you would get 12t (6t chemicals + 6t fuel) from 8t oil.
03:08:44  <devilsadvocate> lol
03:08:50  <SirSquidness> Additives.
03:08:58  <SirSquidness> Like water
03:09:02  <SirSquidness> or misc other chemicals
03:09:07  <devilsadvocate> the additives are oil based too
03:09:20  <SirSquidness> depends on the chemical being produced
03:09:40  <devilsadvocate> oil and water are immiscble :\
03:09:51  * SirSquidness goes back to idling
03:10:01  <Eddi|zuHause> you realize that things get heavier when they burn
03:10:51  <devilsadvocate> not really
03:10:54  <fjb> But not when refining them.
03:10:56  <devilsadvocate> the total mass increases
03:11:03  <devilsadvocate> but its gas
03:11:21  <devilsadvocate> unless the released gasses are reabsorbed, they wont
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03:13:53  <Eddi|zuHause> when you break long carbon chains, you have to add hydrogen at these places... doesn't matter that much, but it's slightly heavier afterwards
03:15:00  <NoobCp> There wasn't a limit to how much goods, mail and passangers an area of city accepts right?
03:15:29  <fjb> But you get many other stuff when refining oil. So I guess 3t chemicals + 3t fuel =6t output from 8t oil input is correct.
03:16:02  <fjb> NoobCp: right
03:16:57  <Eddi|zuHause> oil is not only transformed into fuel. also stuff like plastics or asphalt
03:17:31  <fjb> That does not contradict what I wrote.
03:18:08  <Eddi|zuHause> it wasn't supposed to...
03:19:12  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the PBI refineries start out with 50% fuel and 50% plastics, but they can focus on one if the other isn't transported
03:19:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what firs is supposed to do
03:19:48  <amalloy> afaict FIRS just throws away anything you're not transporting
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05:55:37  <amalloy> someone suggested i try PBI instead of FIRS, but i can't seem to find it in the online content section. i can download the grf manually, but i can't find info on how to install them
05:56:22  <amalloy> anyone have info about either way to do it?
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05:58:48  <amalloy> ah, never mind. apparently i had to search the wiki for newgrf, not grf
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06:25:35  <Terkhen> good morning
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09:06:14  <Asheron> greetings salutations and all that other rot
09:07:55  <Asheron> anyone here?
09:08:49  <Noldo> on and off
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09:10:12  <Asheron> Noldo have you checked out the FIRS industry replacement GRF?
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09:12:35  <Noldo> unfotunately not
09:13:24  <Asheron> ok, Im trying to find out what vehicle set to use for it, it has a bunch of industries not supported by the standard set in 1.0.0
09:19:55  <Terkhen> Asheron: the README has a list of supported vehicle sets
09:20:20  <Asheron> I read that, didnt see it
09:22:43  <Asheron> Ah ok found it, Thanks Terkhen.
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10:00:12  <amalloy> how do i report AI crashes?
10:00:59  <amalloy> i had some problems with missing libraries earlier, but since fixing that pathzilla crashed after getting quite a few things built correctly
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10:03:22  <Noldo> most have threads in the forum
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11:04:38  <Phazorx> is there some way to make game not to spawn industries?
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11:09:32  <planetmaker> no
11:09:50  <planetmaker> except: write a newgrf
11:09:51  <Phazorx> not even with a custom grf?
11:09:55  <Phazorx> heh
11:10:13  <Phazorx> i'm afraid i lack knowledge to do that
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11:13:59  <planetmaker> but even with newgrfs you could not switch that in a running game as with that implementation it'd need setting a parameter
11:14:52  <planetmaker> or possible implementation: a meta-industry (survey camp) which is required withing the <whatever> vicinity in order to allow spawning
11:15:08  <Ammler> frosch's manual industries does that, afaik
11:15:16  <planetmaker> and without that meta-industry: no spawning. Just make that meta-industry close quickly, if not continuously supplied with xy
11:15:21  <Phazorx> Ammler: link to info plz?
11:15:35  <Ammler> grfcrawler.tt-forums.net
11:16:21  <Ammler> Phazorx: preparing scenario for wwottdgd/3?
11:17:43  <Phazorx> thanks
11:17:47  <Phazorx> nope :)
11:17:54  <Phazorx> testing network concept
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12:12:02  <peter1138> hurr, pulseaudio tunnels fail ;s
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12:13:44  <peter1138> RTP works though
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12:23:29  <elmz> argh, is drag&drop land purchase planned?
12:24:53  <elmz> I was in the middle of constructing a giant intersection and then a forest was planted within the area I need :P
12:25:25  <peter1138> you can just 'plan' it with rail or road tiles ;p
12:26:43  <elmz> so basically I have to cover a 100x100 area with rail/road to ensure something like this doesn't happen? :P
12:27:02  <elmz> I thought this was the kind of thing land purchase was for :P
12:36:10  <Rubidium> kind of yes...
12:36:37  <Rubidium> but it is kind of used to block other players by building large areas with purchased land
12:37:10  <Eddi|zuHause> it has been a long standing suggestion to make it drag&drop-able in single player...
12:38:43  <Rubidium> so find someone to implement and commit that :)
12:38:54  <peter1138> otoh you can just block with lots of rail/road pieces
12:39:19  <Rubidium> and then build a bridge over that :)
12:45:39  <elmz> there are always ways to block others
12:46:03  <dihedral> write a 'block detection' :-P
12:46:34  <elmz> haha
12:47:58  <Eddi|zuHause> how about a limited buy-land, where it blocks "world" actions like industry spawning and town growth, but not player actions?
12:48:18  <elmz> possibly a solution
12:50:08  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem there is that you might want to block AI players, but not human players, which the game engine is designed to NOT distinguish
12:52:27  <elmz> well, personally I just play mplayer with friends, and we even alter our tracks to allow construction for others easier
12:52:50  <elmz> so for me a drag&drop land purchase wouldn't be a problem
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12:53:26  <elmz> maybe there could be a game setting to disallow drag&drop land purchase that public servers could use?
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13:11:34  <Belugas> hello all
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13:22:31  <fjb> Moin Belugas.
13:24:05  <Belugas> hello fjb :)
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13:26:54  <Eddi|zuHause> damn, i just read "BOFH" in that message :p
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13:30:04  <Fast2> :D
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14:04:23  <Mazur> Eddi.  :-)
14:13:12  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r19614 /trunk/ (33 files in 11 dirs): -Codechange: "it's" => "its" where appropriate
14:13:27  <Mazur> How about this for a solution: implement an "option to buy this land", which can be overridden by another player with straight out buying?  You could take out an option on the area you're building, preventing an industry or local authority to build therež but if another player _needs_ it to get through, they can buy what they need to progress?
14:14:01  * Mazur highfives CIA-6.
14:16:42  <Mazur> You could also take an option on areas which are built upon, basically requesting politely whoever is within that area to move elsewhere, without having to demolish the buildings.  Just like unserviced industries that close.
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14:20:10  <Ammler> http://ikhaya.ubuntuusers.de/2010/04/12/openttd-1-0-1878/
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14:35:17  <Mazur> Ah, the 4th billion.
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14:47:03  <Mazur> http://www.nxtgamer.com/2010/04/06/openttd-version-1-0-review/
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15:46:52  <TrueBrain> CZ mirror is now too in sync with the rest of our network; sorry if anyone had issues downloading the latest nightly :)
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16:05:48  <Ammler> TrueBrain: thanks, we used for a short time nl. directly, already changed back..
16:11:44  <TrueBrain> Ammler: did you know the 'twitter' thing on openttdcoop.org is slow? And that it holds the main content till it is loaded? That it is terrible for the user?
16:12:34  <Ammler> KenjiE20: ^
16:12:53  <Ammler> isn't it a iframe?
16:12:54  <KenjiE20> blame twitter
16:13:03  <KenjiE20> it's their js box thing
16:13:07  <TrueBrain> no, it is your website
16:13:19  <TrueBrain> it should not matter how long their js stall
16:13:23  <Ammler> then we should replace it with something else
16:13:24  <TrueBrain> yours should be done and done by then
16:13:26  <KenjiE20> it's loaded fine for me, whenever I've made updates
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16:13:54  <Ammler> might it be, we use a table?
16:14:22  <Ammler> and some browsers wait until they have the whole table
16:14:54  * KenjiE20 just ctrl+F5'd
16:14:54  <TrueBrain> here it happens on EVERY page load
16:15:03  <KenjiE20> twitter loaded straight away
16:15:07  <TrueBrain> just holds the main content till that $##$%#$ twitter thing is loaded, and google ads are loaded
16:15:08  <KenjiE20> if anything it paused on google ads
16:15:31  <TrueBrain> do not make your website depend on 3rd party things to be done loading, that is my advise
16:15:53  <KenjiE20> the twitter box loads content in the background
16:15:55  <TrueBrain> (in case of DNS failure or them being down or what ever, you have a never loading website)
16:16:16  <KenjiE20> google ads are in an iframe iirc
16:16:21  <KenjiE20> (I didn't add those)
16:16:38  <TrueBrain> either way, just relaying the fact it is fucking annoying :)
16:16:50  <Ammler> yeah, indeed
16:17:07  <Ammler> KenjiE20: I guess, the iframe is made by the script
16:18:25  <Ammler> TrueBrain: how fast does http://dev.openttdcoop.org load for you?
16:21:36  <TrueBrain> at least I am not waiting for the content to show up because of some thingy I would never use
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17:15:33  <Wolf01> hi
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17:18:12  <Alberth> hi
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17:58:27  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19615 /trunk/src/ (company_cmd.cpp graph_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#3763]: Company related graphs weren't updated correctly after changing the company colour.
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19:22:53  <Wolf01> 'night
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