Log for #openttd on 15th April 2010:
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00:01:36  <__ln__> i wonder if 3d-ness would make the game more realistic
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00:10:46  <Pulec> i've been reading wiki page a while ago, about towns
00:10:59  <Pulec> and there was part that needed rework?
00:11:22  <Pulec> so i understand that well placed and well suplied stations affects the town level most?
00:11:32  <Pulec> goods do not affect that?
00:13:08  <Cadde> You mean local authority?
00:13:43  <Belugas> yes, glx :)  And it's a good feeling ;)
00:13:51  <Belugas> now.. back to TV with my wife...
00:15:41  <__ln__> you both fit inside?
00:15:59  <Cadde> Pulec: You mean local authority?
00:16:17  <Pulec> i mean growth of the city
00:16:27  <Pulec> i did not write that, heh, sorry
00:17:46  <Cadde> Growth i think is based on passengers transported. Or frequency of the same.
00:17:48  <Cadde>
00:18:01  <Cadde> Look at that and see if it can clear things up ^
00:19:55  <Pulec> oh i didnt read that, thx
00:21:04  <Cadde> This might help if game mechanics doesn't
00:21:04  <Cadde>
00:21:20  <Cadde> It's the code for town growth changes
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00:28:58  <Pulec> if the one tile is 686km long, and town is 20 tiles away from another town, that makes the distance between towns over 13 thousand km, wierd, huh?
00:32:47  <Cadde> Pulec: Eh? Where is that notion of tiles representing 686km ?
00:33:06  <Pulec> sorry my mistake
00:33:36  <Pulec> The game has many rules to make vehicles move fairly realistically. A vehicle travelling at 100 mph (160kph) will cross 5.6 tiles per day.
00:33:43  <Pulec> understood it wrongly
00:33:52  <Cadde> I hope so :D
00:33:53  <Eddi|zuHause> Pulec: if a tile is 25m long, the distance will be 500m, which is kinda weird as well, huh?
00:34:13  <Pulec> yeah it is
00:34:46  <Cadde> I don't think of towns as cities. It's more like districts in a larger city when they are that close (20 tiles)
00:35:07  <Cadde> So a cluster of towns that can basically touch is one large city.
00:35:51  <Pulec> yep and its metropolis
00:36:00  <Eddi|zuHause> long story short: you can't compare ingame scales like that
00:36:49  <Eddi|zuHause> the tile size may be practically any number between 5m and 5000m
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00:38:12  <Eddi|zuHause> the width of a road for example is 8-10m
00:38:14  <Cadde> The one thing i dislike is the lack of game time to speed scale.
00:38:36  <Eddi|zuHause> the length of a runway is easily several km
00:38:55  <Cadde> Trains really should zip across the map if you run at normal daylengths
00:39:31  <Cadde> But changing that would require changing practically everything
00:39:38  <Pulec> how long takes one month in game? 5 min?
00:39:55  <Cadde> 74 ticks a day. That i know for sure
00:40:04  <Pulec> ticks?
00:40:13  <Eddi|zuHause> a year is about 15 minutes
00:40:13  <Cadde> Yeah, the internal clock of the game
00:40:31  <Pulec> hh
00:40:58  <Eddi|zuHause> there are about 30 ticks per second, making a day around 2.5 seconds
00:41:05  <Cadde> So yeah, once 74 ticks have passed you have a new day. (Unless you use the daylength patch)
00:41:37  <Cadde> And if the game is running slow those 74 ticks can take longer.
00:41:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not entirely sure, could be either 33 or 35 ticks per second
00:41:58  <Cadde> I.e if your CPU usage is 200% then a day would take 5 seconds as opposed to 2.5
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00:42:53  <Cadde> And trains would seem to move choppy as they are redrawn every tick. 15 frames per second at 200% CPU usage basically.
00:43:51  <Eddi|zuHause> ooooh... on my 386 ticks could last 2 seconds.
00:44:00  <Eddi|zuHause> with 80 trains
00:45:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i never made it more than 10 years into a game
00:45:15  <Cadde> Also bare in mind, OTTD uses only ONE core no matter if you have 2 or 16 cores on your CPU. A higher clock frequency is better than more cores when it comes to OTTD
00:45:17  <Eddi|zuHause> so around 1930 to 1940
01:00:50  <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: damn the forums did it again...
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01:08:23  <|NoobCp|> Is the edge distance limit for oil refineries obsolete by any chance, or does it not apply in the scenario editor?
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01:09:07  <PeterT> NoobCp: I think it still applies
01:09:14  <PeterT> there is a patch to get rid of the limit
01:09:22  <PeterT> I haven't (personally) tested it though
01:09:53  <NoobCp> Strange, I just bult it it on a location 128x63
01:09:59  <PeterT>
01:10:37  <Eddi|zuHause> some limits don't apply in the scenario editor
01:10:52  <NoobCp> Fun, just thought it was strange
01:11:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know if the refinery limit is one of them
01:11:21  <Eddi|zuHause> also, newgrfs may change this limit
01:11:51  <NoobCp> None loaded
01:11:52  <Yexo> oil refinery limit is ignored in the scenario editor
01:12:50  <Yexo> but only for manually placed industries
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01:54:10  <Cadde> ! Ugh !
01:54:27  <Cadde> Is there a way to change the NewGRF ordering on a already started game.
01:58:32  <welshdragon> single or multiplayer?
01:58:36  <Cadde> Single
01:58:40  <welshdragon> yes
01:59:23  <Cadde> I have tried moving the newgrf to the desired location and saved the game and re-loaded it.
01:59:55  <welshdragon> all newgrf's should be in the same place
02:00:15  <welshdragon> in windows it's My Documents/openttd/data
02:00:44  <Cadde> Ok, how does that help me changing the ordering on a already started game?
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02:01:01  <welshdragon> spanner -> Newgrf Settings
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02:01:54  <Cadde> <Cadde> I have tried moving the newgrf to the desired location and saved the game and re-loaded it.
02:01:54  <welshdragon> to add a grf hit add
02:02:15  <welshdragon> right
02:02:25  <welshdragon> is there a ! next to it?
02:02:54  <Cadde> I want the load order of the grfs to change so Bigger Train depot takes priority over TTRS
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02:03:48  <welshdragon> select Bigger Train Depot
02:04:14  <welshdragon> and theb click move up/down in the GRF Settings window
02:05:34  <Cadde> It doesn't apply.
02:06:06  <Cadde> I mean, the order is changed when i move the grf up and down and save the game and restart ottd but the actual effect is none.
02:07:46  <Cadde> Is it because the sprite is saved in the savegame so that it cannot be replaced by altering the grf order or did i do something wrong.
02:07:57  <Cadde> Altering the order and starting a new game has effect.
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02:13:14  <welshdragon> that's just it
02:13:20  <welshdragon> you won't see the changes
02:13:31  <welshdragon> unless there was a conflict
02:14:41  <Cadde> So basically, no. Not without having a savegame editor that can slap the savegame into shape and even then it's questionable.
02:18:09  <glx> where did you change them ? running game or main menu ?
02:18:44  <Cadde> Running game.
02:19:33  <Cadde> All that's wrong is the sprite used for train depots.
02:20:20  <Cadde> It's not game breaking in any way but it saddens me to realize after spending 4 hours slowly making money that i cannot make my stations look as good as i wanted them to.
02:22:24  <Cadde> Actually, come to think of it. I believe it's the original OpenGFX version of the depot that is showing. Thus the ordering of the grf doesn't matter. But for some reason it wasn't applied when i started the game and i only noticed just now.
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03:02:12  <Cadde> Hmm. Why are my buses paying the passengers to travel 6 squares?
03:04:22  <Cadde> This is what's happening. I have 3 stations set up in a T layout, there are 2 trains going from each and every one of them and then i have a 4th station with 2 trains going to the 3rd station.
03:04:56  <Cadde> Naturally cargodist wants to send passengers from stations 1, 2 and 3 to station 4 and the bus station that is linked up with buses.
03:05:35  <Cadde> But when my buses going from station 4 to that bus station arrives and unloads i am PAYING money to unload the passengers. What is going on here?
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03:11:51  <Cadde> Oh, and my balance is going up even though it sais COST and the profit of the bus shows as negative.
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03:29:07  <Cadde> Figured it out, it's that leg profit dealio
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07:21:02  <dihedral> \o/
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07:30:59  <terinjokes> dihedral: /O\
07:31:33  <dihedral> hi... erm... do i know you? :-P
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07:41:30  <TrueBrain> you already forgot about last night?
07:46:35  <planetmaker> :-D
07:46:50  <planetmaker> easy come, easy go, you know? ;-)
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07:57:17  <dihedral> TrueBrain: i would NEVER forget YOU :-P
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08:02:19  <planetmaker> eeew...
08:02:31  <planetmaker> please spare us the details ;-)
08:03:31  <dihedral> ^^
08:03:34  <dihedral> he asked for it!
08:11:23  <welshdragon> no you
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08:23:04  <Mazur> Morning, all.
08:24:00  <KloBass> good mourning
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08:57:27  <lennard> ping TrueBrain (or Rubidium, I think?)
08:58:11  <lennard> the mirror will go offline for a few hours starting tomorrow evening, 17:00 dutch time
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09:12:08  <KloBass> one question how to open cheat menu in linux? ctrl+alt+c and ctrl+alt+c+win does not work :(
09:14:53  <welshdragon> it should
09:15:09  <welshdragon> meta+alt+c?
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09:15:57  <Darkvater> a bit late...
09:16:05  <Darkvater> but congratulations with 1.0.0!!!!
09:20:27  <dihedral> \o/ Darkvater
09:20:39  <dihedral> why do i always have to think of dilbert when i see Darkvater??
09:21:15  <Darkvater> hihi, my dear, dear avatar :D
09:23:15  <Darkvater> how is everyone doing?
09:23:41  <dihedral> <- is doing ok
09:23:53  <dihedral> <- is looking for some good hosting provider!
09:24:11  <Darkvater> ^ likes to use <-
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09:26:36  <dihedral> how are you btw?
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09:27:22  <dihedral> i don't want to fork out 50 EUR / Month for my own root server
09:27:42  <dihedral> and i hate the limites some hosters impose with virtuozo
09:27:46  <dihedral> grrr
09:28:42  <Rubidium> then what do you want?
09:28:50  <peter1138> they're called "root" servers now?
09:29:01  <dihedral> yeah :-(
09:29:07  <dihedral> root server or dedicated server ^^
09:29:19  <lennard> doh
09:29:23  <Rubidium> hi Darkvater, you're the second of the "old devs" to show up. Although, Bjarni joining and leaving immediately counts as "showing up"
09:29:29  <Darkvater> dihedral: doing ok. will have to look for a new job in the next few months
09:29:35  <lennard> if you want cheap, you go to a cheap virtual machine hoster in us or de
09:29:38  <Darkvater> Rubidium: *giggle* bjarni
09:29:42  <lennard> if you want dedicated, you cant get cheap :P
09:29:44  <dihedral> Darkvater: you are in the UK right?
09:29:52  <Darkvater> I am?
09:29:57  <dihedral> i thought you were :-P
09:29:57  <Darkvater> lemme check
09:30:10  <Darkvater> nop
09:30:12  <Noldo> cheapest in finland seem to be around 24 e/kk
09:30:14  <dihedral> pitty
09:30:19  <dihedral> else i would have known a company :-D
09:30:28  <Darkvater> although it sounds nice. I'm not too attached to NL
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09:30:44  <dihedral> perhaps you might like
09:30:46  <Rubidium> Darkvater: "United Kingdom of the Netherlands"
09:30:53  <dihedral> :-D
09:30:58  <paul> hi everyone
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09:31:10  <Guest2553> -.-
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09:31:17  <dihedral> two little dickybirds sitting on a wall......
09:31:31  <dihedral> one named peter ond named.... ?
09:31:32  <dihedral> :-D
09:31:53  <paul_> :)
09:32:01  <paul_> i wouldnt know :p
09:32:07  <Darkvater> dihedral: don't see any job pages
09:33:10  <Darkvater> meh, bbs
09:34:15  <Rubidium> Darkvater: yeah, sadly enough we find surprises from Bjarni every few weeks :(
09:35:20  <paul_> maybe you guys can point me into the right direction :)
09:35:38  <__ln__> the whole effort Bjarni has put into OTTD has been an evil, secret plot to plant surprises for Rubidium.
09:36:33  <paul_> i am trying to setup an openttd server ... with some NewGRF ... but everytime a client connects and trys to download the newGRF content it stalls
09:36:48  <paul_> erm ... the newGRF download stalls
09:36:53  <__ln__> hello sir Darkvater
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09:38:37  <dihedral> Darkvater:
09:39:30  <dihedral> it's a nifty product, and they have some money-pooping investers (at least that was the looks like 4 years ago) :P
09:41:52  <Darkvater> Rubidium, __ln__ : the whole of bjarni was a disaster. I always knew Apple-fans were evil. this is proof!
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09:42:11  <Darkvater> dihedral: I'm blind...
09:43:03  <dihedral> yarp
09:43:20  <Darkvater> dihedral: sounds.... interesting. but I'm not really into databases and just trying to quit programming
09:43:37  <Darkvater> it's nice, but 40h/w is taking away all the fun
09:44:42  <Rubidium> Darkvater: yeah, such gems as CVE-2009-4007
09:45:37  <peter1138> pfft
09:45:46  <Darkvater> Unspecified vulnerability in the NormaliseTrainConsist function in src/train_cmd.cpp in OpenTTD before 0.7.5-RC1 allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service (daemon crash) via certain game actions involving a wagon and a dual-headed engine.
09:46:01  <Darkvater> bjarni, the bane of all developers!
09:46:17  <peter1138> but nobody else spotted it either
09:46:52  <dihedral> Darkvater: was just an idea - i still have personal contacts to them ^^
09:47:21  <Darkvater> :)
09:47:49  <__ln__> peter1138: because Bjarni covered it up so well
09:48:23  <Darkvater> lol
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10:02:32  <__ln__> hmm, all air traffic in Britain, Norway and Denmark stopped
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10:05:35  <Darkvater> \o/ iceland
10:06:57  <Forked> I'm thinking Iceland should be held responsible and pay for what is lost
10:07:03  <Forked> seeing how they are already swimming in money :)
10:07:28  <__ln__> Forked: would you accept fish as payment?
10:07:37  <Forked> if the people there are to be blamed and pay for the mess a few people made.. why not being made to pay for what mother nature does as well
10:09:03  <Forked> __ln__: pretty sure we have enough fish here in .no :)
10:09:25  <__ln__> Forked: too bad since fish is all they have atm
10:09:47  <Eddi|zuHause> they have geothermal energy!
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10:10:52  <dihedral> just hope they dont throw all the fish into the vulcano and send you the ashes that way :-P
10:11:00  <dihedral> might be a smelly thing :-P
10:11:06  <dihedral> fishy ashes :-P
10:11:46  <Eddi|zuHause> ashes don't smell...
10:12:21  <paul_> please can someone enlighten me ... i am trying to setup an openttd server ... but the clients cant download the newGRF content ... any ideas?
10:12:31  <fjb> Moin
10:13:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the client's don't download the newgrf content from you, they download from the centralized download server
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10:14:01  <dihedral> paul_: newgrf content is not downloaded from your sever!
10:14:04  <Eddi|zuHause> and anything that's not uploaded there, can't be downloaded
10:14:21  <dihedral> newgrf's must be those from the content server, if you want them to be able to download them automatically
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10:15:19  <paul_> hmm i got them myself through the ingame content downloader ... so they should on the content server
10:15:38  <paul_> the content download server is the bananas list?
10:16:12  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
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10:17:31  <dihedral> other option is that they are just trying to connect to your server, without trying to get the newgrfs first
10:18:22  <paul_> i got server up ... and i am trying to connect myself
10:18:34  <paul_> (from a second computer)
10:18:56  <paul_> i find the server an click on NewGRF Settings
10:19:43  <paul_> it lists me the used NewGRF ... the i go on Find missing content online
10:20:09  <paul_> select all ... download
10:20:40  <paul_> i get the download window ... 0B of 1.22 MiB downloaded ... and nothing more happens
10:20:44  <paul_> it stalls at 0
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10:24:17  <paul_> the ip is port 3979 .. which is the default .. if anyone wants to try
10:24:33  <dihedral> paul_: which version?
10:24:47  <paul_> openttd version?
10:24:56  <dihedral> yes!
10:25:00  <paul_> 1.0.0
10:25:18  <dihedral> how long did you wait for the download to start?
10:25:37  <paul_> hmm still waiting
10:26:06  <amalloy> can someone help me with a general infrastructure question? i've looked at several of the junctions on the wiki, and i have a reasonable grasp of how to build junctions; but it seems like overkill to build a huge junction for each station i want to put next to the mainline. what's a more lightweight way to let trains in and out of a station?
10:26:07  <peter1138> well content download comes from the central servers, not your own
10:26:25  <Rubidium> it works for me (tm)
10:26:46  <dihedral> ^^
10:26:56  <Rubidium> paul_: what does redirect you to?
10:27:38  <paul_> Rubidium: to
10:28:32  <Rubidium> paul_: sounds like a firewall is disallowing OpenTTD to connect to that server
10:29:51  <paul_> well i am behind a nat router ... never hat problems with that ... i can download newGRF content if i connect to other servers ... actually let me check that (worked yesterday)
10:29:55  <plantain> hmm, are the tar files in .openttd/content_download/ meant to be extracted by openttd?
10:30:21  <plantain> I've download a whole lot of AI's and maps, but they all fail to execute with "dbg: [misc] [squirrel] Failed to compile '/home/plantain/.openttd/content_download/ai/NoCAB-2.0.4.tar/nocab-2.0.4/main.nut'
10:30:46  <Hirundo> amalloy: Generally, simple splits and combinations thereof suffice 90% of the time
10:30:48  <plantain> or alternatively "dbg: [ai] [1] [S] Error /home/plantain/.openttd/content_download/ai/library/Pathfinder.Road-3.tar/pathfinder.road.3/main.nut:257/43: expected ')'
10:31:08  <Rubidium> plantain:
10:31:20  <Rubidium> i.e. you're zlib is "broken"
10:31:31  <Rubidium> s/you're/your/
10:31:44  <paul_> Rubidium: ahh ok doesnt work anymore either ... ok now i got something i can work with :)
10:32:02  *** oskari89 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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10:44:58  <peter1138> is there any upstream report on that issue?
10:45:32  <planetmaker> smatZ wanted to look into it and report it upstream if he comes to the conclusion that it is a real zlib issue
10:45:47  <planetmaker> he advised me against reporting it already
10:45:53  <peter1138> reporting eof when it's not eof seems fairly blatantly a problem
10:46:09  <planetmaker> dunno if he did already. Maybe he did :-)
10:46:31  <Rubidium> don't know; you need to be member of their mailing list before checking the logs and it's unclear whether there's a bug tracker and if so, where it is
10:46:59  <planetmaker> well, it's possible to 'just' e-mail them. They're usually responsive.
10:53:39  <paul_> Rubidium: thx for the help ... i downloaded the newGRF on that client manually and it works
10:53:49  <paul_> the client btw is a mac os x too ...
10:54:28  <paul_> but i have no idea why the ingame content downloader doesnt work anymore ...
10:55:55  <planetmaker> paul_, because of your zlib then most probably
10:56:19  <planetmaker> you updated zlib via macports, got version 1.2.4 - and that breaks current trunk
10:56:48  <planetmaker> either you use the patch as attached to FS#3753 or you downgrade your zlib
10:57:51  <paul_> hmm but i didnt change anything (no new compiles or updates) since it worked
10:59:08  <paul_> uhhh wait i compiled it without liblzo2
11:00:53  <planetmaker> that doesn't matter
11:02:32  <planetmaker> zlib != liblzo2
11:02:58  <amalloy> how can i tell how expensive something will be before i do it? i tried placing some electric rail and blew through my whole initial loan in like ten seconds
11:03:09  <planetmaker> amalloy, try shit+action
11:03:52  <amalloy> thanks
11:05:33  <paul_> planetmaker: hm the zlib i have installed is 1.2.3
11:06:29  <planetmaker> which of the 10 different 1.2.3?
11:12:06  <paul_> hmm how can i tell?
11:13:30  <Rubidium> that's the nice part... you usually can't
11:13:32  <Eddi|zuHause> by staring at it until it loses its contenance, then it splurts out all the answers
11:13:45  <planetmaker> Rubidium, macports allows to display the exact version
11:13:53  <planetmaker> And even switch in between with a one-line command
11:14:02  <planetmaker> but I don't recall the exact command
11:15:05  <planetmaker> provided that all those versions have been ported, of course.
11:15:42  <paul_> hmm the header is of no use? e.g. zlib.h
11:15:54  <planetmaker> something maybe like port search zlib
11:16:06  <planetmaker> or port list zlib
11:16:09  <Eddi|zuHause> all commands are one line :p
11:16:24  <planetmaker> or port active zlib
11:16:25  <Eddi|zuHause> (provided they stay below 32k ;))
11:16:43  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, that depends upon the shell, I'd say ;-)
11:17:43  <Eddi|zuHause> likely ;)
11:17:57  <paul_> hmm something like fink list zlib ?ß
11:18:06  <paul_> hmm something like "fink list zlib"?
11:18:07  <planetmaker> fink != macports :-)
11:18:12  <planetmaker> I dunno about fink
11:18:32  <paul_> yes .. but i dont have no command named "port"
11:18:34  <ashb> fink and macports both have fail
11:18:38  <ashb> use homebrew
11:18:50  <paul_> so i guess i dont have macport
11:19:25  <Darkvater> did celestar ever return?
11:19:46  <planetmaker> ever: yes. Recently: no
11:19:54  <Darkvater> hehe
11:20:08  <planetmaker> @seen Celestar
11:20:08  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Celestar was last seen in #openttd 11 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 59 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <Celestar> work cals
11:20:11  *** owenshep [] has joined #openttd
11:20:22  <planetmaker> more recent than I thought ;-)
11:20:24  *** owenshep is now known as OwenS
11:20:25  <Darkvater> @seen Darkvater
11:20:25  <DorpsGek> Darkvater: Darkvater was last seen in #openttd 30 seconds ago: <Darkvater> hehe
11:20:35  <Darkvater> eh, not what I was expecting
11:20:43  <planetmaker> :-)
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11:30:35  <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of bjarni:
11:31:30  *** Chris_Booth [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:32:21  <peter1138> @seen bjarni
11:32:21  <DorpsGek> peter1138: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 7 weeks, 0 days, 12 hours, 7 minutes, and 1 second ago: <Bjarni> <-- wtf. Some rich guy built a trebuchet and uses burning pianos as ammo
11:32:40  <peter1138> ah, typical bjarni, just posting links
11:35:04  <OwenS> The amount of times people have asked when Bjarni was last seen is... silly
11:35:23  <peter1138> @seen tron
11:35:23  <DorpsGek> peter1138: I have not seen tron.
11:35:33  <peter1138> @seen hackykid
11:35:33  <DorpsGek> peter1138: hackykid was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 15 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <Hackykid> hi peter1138
11:35:39  <peter1138> heh
11:37:59  <Darkvater> he, tron
11:38:03  <Darkvater> good ol' days :)
11:46:45  <Rubidium> OwenS: that happens with all those mac fanboys that are sad there isn't an official Mac OS X port anymore
11:47:02  <dihedral> they can install linux on their mac
11:47:11  * dihedral hides
11:47:59  <Rubidium> but Linux isn't all point'n'drool
11:48:46  <dihedral> can be
11:49:16  <dihedral> depends what makes you drool
11:49:32  <ashb> dihedral: the main argument against X11 on a mac is same argument against cygwin: it doesn't fit in with the rest of the OS
11:50:05  <OwenS> ashb, who said X11? He said Linux
11:50:11  <dihedral> i was not talking about installing x11 in os x ^^
11:50:19  <ashb> oh dual boot. good point
11:50:25  <OwenS> Nah, single boot
11:50:26  <dihedral> i was not talking about dual boot
11:50:39  <Noldo> ditch the mac!
11:50:40  <ashb> well if you are going to install linux may as well install windows as well for playing other games too ^__^
11:50:45  <peter1138> dihedral was talking about replacing a shitty OS with a slightly better OS
11:50:48  <dihedral> hehe - OwenS seems to understand me very well
11:51:04  * Rubidium loves dualboot... memtest and linux
11:51:10  <dihedral> :-D
11:51:19  <peter1138> :)
11:51:21  <OwenS> Rubidium, whats the boot ratio between them?
11:51:31  <dihedral> peter1138: you consider windows as good as you like - it suits users ^^
11:51:42  <Rubidium> 0 to lots
11:51:45  <peter1138> i what?
11:51:47  <dihedral> :-P
11:52:03  <peter1138> no, i mean i don't understand what you're trying to say
11:52:34  <dihedral> i was calling you a 'user'
11:52:44  <Rubidium> ihop?
11:52:58  <Rubidium> that is owned by apple, right?
11:53:13  <dihedral> yeah
11:53:14  <peter1138> dihedral, "you consider windows as good as you like"? what do you mean there?
11:53:35  <dihedral> feel free to consider windows as good an os as you like??
11:54:05  <dihedral> enjoy the 'safty' of windows?
11:54:10  <peter1138> why me?
11:54:18  <Rubidium> I think the point peter1138 is trying to make is that he didn't mean Windows as "a slightly better OS"
11:54:24  <dihedral> 13:50 <@peter1138> dihedral was talking about replacing a shitty OS with a  slightly better OSB[B[B
11:55:44  <peter1138> i.e. OS X with Linux
11:55:56  <planetmaker> <ashb> dihedral: the main argument against X11 on a mac is same argument against cygwin: it doesn't fit in with the rest of the OS <-- the main argument against SDL on mac is that it's somewhat severely broken. Not that it doesn't blend
11:56:42  <ashb> if you say so - only used it very breifly
11:56:57  *** Phazorx [~pavelkoll@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:57:07  <planetmaker> ashb, I wrote the bug report. I tested it
11:57:15  <planetmaker> not briefly actually
11:57:26  <planetmaker> just to prove the point, though ;-