Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:02 <theholyduck> has xv support 00:00:32 <OwenS> Yell at ATi and Intel to support VDPAU. It works on every Unix, it is designed to support any card... 00:00:45 <theholyduck> not really 00:00:58 <theholyduck> vdpau interfaces directly with nvidias video decoding chip 00:01:01 <theholyduck> on the gpu. 00:01:03 <theholyduck> and scaling chip 00:01:09 <OwenS> The design is portable though 00:01:21 <peter1138> i want it on AIX 00:01:22 <OwenS> Works on Linux, BSD and Solaris, and both nVIDIA and S3 have implemented it 00:01:28 <theholyduck> even if nvidia did opensource the firmware and what not needed to make it work 00:01:31 <peter1138> and OSF/1 00:01:42 <theholyduck> theres no guarantee you could actually implement it on ati cards or intel ones 00:01:43 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:02:10 <theholyduck> OwenS, well sure, if nvidia liscenced out the chips/firmware/code used to interface,etc 00:02:19 <theholyduck> the specs, etc 00:02:25 <OwenS> theholyduck: No need for a license! S3 implemented the API of their own accord! 00:02:36 <OwenS> VDPAU operates at a similar level of abstraction to OpenGL 00:02:58 <theholyduck> OwenS, hmm, doesnt necesarily mean its doable to make it work with ati's decoding chips 00:03:26 <OwenS> Well, there are so far two compatible implementations, and Intel are strongly considering it 00:03:34 <theholyduck> OwenS, the other problem is 00:03:39 <theholyduck> ati is SLOOOW 00:03:45 <theholyduck> they still dont support the latest xorg 00:03:52 <OwenS> Heh 00:03:57 <theholyduck> unless theres been a new release while i wasnt looking 00:04:13 <OwenS> Intel's only VAAPI GPU doesn't support any kernels released in the last 12 months :p 00:06:08 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@ip-48-137-106-77.eidsiva.net] has joined #openttd 00:06:15 <Keyboard_Warrior> ... 00:06:18 <Keyboard_Warrior> theholyduck, her 00:06:20 <Keyboard_Warrior> *here 00:06:23 <Keyboard_Warrior> internet seemingly exploded 00:06:34 *** theholyduck is now known as Guest1928 00:06:35 *** Keyboard_Warrior is now known as theholyduck 00:06:59 <theholyduck> there we go 00:13:13 *** Guest1928 [~holyduck@77.106.152.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:19:42 <Eddi|zuHause> "opensource is failure April 30th, 2010 at 23:21 00:19:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah! it will not last long till you communist scumbags will be exterminated! go steve!" <-- i cannot stop laughing :p 00:21:04 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:38:13 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:14 <GEORGE_W_BUSH> so does anyone here play openttd 00:38:29 <PeterT> nope 00:38:41 <PeterT> what is "openttd"? 00:39:23 <GEORGE_W_BUSH> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2_I0EGhcB4 its kinda like this 00:42:12 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:43:04 <PeterT> oh, never heard of it! 00:47:34 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:50:06 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 00:51:06 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: a1270] 00:56:44 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 01:01:22 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D0A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:46 *** welterde [welterde@hex.srv.welterde.de] has joined #openttd 01:16:40 <Eddi|zuHause> # you've never really known 01:16:42 <Eddi|zuHause> # that when the white flag is flown 01:16:43 <Eddi|zuHause> # no one, no one, no one has 01:16:45 <Eddi|zuHause> # won the war 02:03:47 *** lugo [~lugo@f055216087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:38 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:14:58 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:17:48 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-8-178.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:20:02 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-46-30.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 02:20:05 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 02:29:39 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@vs241204.vserver.de] has quit [Quit: Solong, and thanks for all the fish] 02:29:59 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 02:30:26 *** rellig [~quassel@vs1191017.vserver.de] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 02:30:47 *** rellig [~quassel@vs1191017.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 02:31:36 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 02:49:32 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56:58 *** ashaw [~alexis@58.108.161.163] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:34 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@cpe-67-49-76-8.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:08:40 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:16:19 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:28:39 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:29:02 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:69ba:4ac9:4cf9:ce09] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:00:09 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 04:56:03 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76B1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74689.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:59:52 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:01:24 *** KloBass1 [~hadameko@20.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 05:01:32 *** KloBass1 [~hadameko@20.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:48 *** KloBass [~hadameko@20.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 05:06:09 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ip-48-137-106-77.eidsiva.net] has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 05:07:15 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.153.40] has joined #openttd 05:07:29 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:51:29 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 05:57:47 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 06:00:01 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:03:03 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.153.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04:28 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:34 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:22:48 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:25:23 <andythenorth> morning 06:29:15 <andythenorth> Rubidium: could newgrf debug show the current production multiplier for each output cargo? 06:44:59 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 07:00:07 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:05:00 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ff1ec000-127.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:07:33 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:15:16 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 07:16:00 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-197-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:20:43 <andythenorth> Rubidium: industry production multiplier is at offset 13 07:22:16 * andythenorth ponders 07:23:26 <andythenorth> industry location restrictions are easy to dream up 07:23:38 <andythenorth> but mostly boring in gameplay yes/no? 07:36:35 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: ecke] 07:38:42 <planetmaker> very much so 07:39:00 <planetmaker> I'd say rather annoying than boring, though 07:41:55 <andythenorth> I think I mostly won't bother then. Some industries are already near town. I won't add many more restrictions. 07:42:05 <andythenorth> remind me I said that if I change my mind :P 07:48:57 * andythenorth ponders 07:49:51 <andythenorth> cb 28 - industry location permissibility. I'm missing a way to detect if the construction attempt is the game or the player 07:50:55 <andythenorth> if variable A7 was available during industry construction....that would do it 07:53:01 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA607.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:56:04 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:01:54 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.19.119] has joined #openttd 08:03:48 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:05:08 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F37B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:11:24 <planetmaker> meh... the road vehicle ID recommendations are also only kicking the toyland stuff... :-( http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=RoadVehicleIDRecommendation 08:15:18 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.154.65] has joined #openttd 08:16:45 <planetmaker> hm... very crazy idea: 08:16:59 <planetmaker> let farms produce food with different sub cargos 08:17:16 <planetmaker> Food processing plants accept that - and produce food with other sub cargos 08:17:18 <planetmaker> Would that make sense? 08:17:53 <andythenorth> explain more? 08:17:56 <planetmaker> Like a food factory gets potatoes and meat and cheese - and makes chips 08:18:19 <planetmaker> but at the same time the food could - instead of being delivered to the factory - directly be delivered to a twon 08:18:22 <planetmaker> *town 08:18:44 <planetmaker> That would make the game easier in the respect that the amount of cargos gets reduced 08:19:05 <planetmaker> But it would keep everything else 08:19:13 <andythenorth> so food -> town and food -> processing plant -> food -> town ?? 08:19:22 <planetmaker> yes, like that 08:19:35 <planetmaker> or would that be too boring? 08:19:41 <andythenorth> why keep the processing plant(s)? 08:19:50 *** Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has quit [Quit: PACKET_CLIENT_QUIT] 08:19:54 <planetmaker> in order to get different sub cargos 08:20:14 <planetmaker> a farm will give you fruit, meat, grain 08:20:34 <planetmaker> a processing plant will give you chips, caned vegies,... 08:20:49 <andythenorth> but these are just subtypes of food? 08:20:52 <planetmaker> yes 08:20:54 <andythenorth> hmm 08:21:08 <planetmaker> and why do that? You can make two times money from the same cargo ;-) 08:21:24 <andythenorth> well it could work 08:21:27 <andythenorth> but it seems strange 08:21:35 <planetmaker> I agree, it's uncommon 08:21:41 <planetmaker> But basically passenger work that way 08:21:48 <andythenorth> food is an unsolved problem in my view 08:21:50 <planetmaker> towns are that kind of "industry" 08:22:44 <andythenorth> FWIW there is a 'market' planned for towns which will accept farm cargos and produce food, but that's quite different to your suggestion 08:23:04 <planetmaker> a "market" which produces? 08:23:15 <andythenorth> wholesale market 08:23:27 <andythenorth> not retail :) 08:23:43 <planetmaker> well, yes, but... they don't produce ;-) They just retail b2b :-P 08:24:01 <andythenorth> some will slaughter animals, wash vegies etc 08:24:10 <andythenorth> and remember...it's a game :) 08:24:16 <dih> morning 08:24:27 <dih> happy 1. may all ye germans ^^ 08:24:40 <dih> (actually wanted to go shopping today) grr 08:24:43 <planetmaker> moin dih 08:24:57 <planetmaker> andythenorth: sure, it's a game, I know very well :-) 08:25:05 <Rubidium> dih: here the shops are still open 08:25:20 <planetmaker> actually your commit message gave me the idea to this food only chains 08:25:37 <planetmaker> andythenorth: or what does r903 do? 08:26:22 <planetmaker> sorry. r913 08:26:32 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd 08:27:31 *** Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has joined #openttd 08:31:48 <Terkhen> good morning 08:32:39 <peter1138> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ush/sets/72157623962343512/ 08:34:55 <andythenorth> planetmaker: r913 was a ticket to have the arable farm produce cargo 'sugar beet' (temperate/arctic) or 'sugar cane' (tropic) 08:35:36 <Rubidium> peter1138: why oh why do they build soccer stadiums in/near towns? 08:35:50 <andythenorth> it's where the people live? 08:36:31 <Rubidium> andythenorth: yes, and that is the primary reason why you should keep stadiums far away from towns 08:37:01 <peter1138> yeah, but these guys are just coming to the town centre to 'protest', not to any stadium 08:39:28 <andythenorth> electricity electricity electricity 08:39:30 <Rubidium> oh, that's even worse... 08:39:55 * andythenorth thinks some industries will increase production if there is a power plant nearby 08:40:00 <andythenorth> how near is 'nearby'? 08:40:14 <Rubidium> 1FE tiles? 08:40:42 <__ln___> the distance from the couch to the fridge 08:42:31 <andythenorth> 1FE seems excessive? 08:43:56 <andythenorth> Rubidium: did you see my debug feature request earlier? 08:46:00 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:48:19 <planetmaker> andythenorth: "nearby" = f(map size) 08:48:24 <theholyduck> i should do a feature request for tram MULTI TRACK DRIFTIIING 08:49:10 <theholyduck> seems like quite alot of effort though ;( 08:49:16 <andythenorth> planetmaker: possibly. Or just 64dec 08:49:27 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's not possible to get info about the "electicity production" of "nearby" power plants, right? 08:49:31 <andythenorth> no 08:49:35 <planetmaker> or overall 08:49:49 <planetmaker> ok, then 64 is fine 08:50:05 <planetmaker> for steel and such? 08:50:15 <andythenorth> it could be if var 68 was extended 08:50:47 <andythenorth> I have been pondering for ages whether to try and extend var 68 myself 08:51:09 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC6D89.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:51:19 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 08:53:29 <andythenorth> however 08:53:45 <andythenorth> there is a gameplay reason to not care about the actual production at the powerplant 08:54:25 <andythenorth> lets say I have a fertiliser plant. if I am delivering coal to power plant A (40 tiles distant) then I get a production boost. 08:54:58 <andythenorth> Now the game builds a power plant at location B (30 tiles distant). But I don't notice. No production boost at my fertiliser plant :| 08:56:12 <andythenorth> and the coal is wasted 08:59:06 <andythenorth> wouldn't it be useful if an industry could 'close and build a different industry at this location' 08:59:12 <andythenorth> ? 09:01:46 <planetmaker> like close with successor industry :-) 09:01:54 <planetmaker> that'd also take care of expanding an industry :-) 09:03:21 <andythenorth> yup 09:03:28 <andythenorth> rebuild with bigger layout 09:03:45 <andythenorth> in actual games, it might be completely blocked by stations etc 09:04:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F37B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:06:21 *** ikarus2k [~ikarus@79.114.48.253] has joined #openttd 09:07:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@88.130.160.105] has joined #openttd 09:07:46 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 09:09:07 *** fjb [~frank@p5485C27A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:09:27 *** ikarus2k [~ikarus@79.114.48.253] has left #openttd [] 09:09:36 * andythenorth ponders closures again 09:10:15 <planetmaker> generally they suck 09:10:22 <planetmaker> for serviced industries 09:10:32 <planetmaker> they destroy your network 09:12:37 <andythenorth> I am going to prevent closure for serviced industry. 09:12:51 <andythenorth> I think there will be a parameter: no closures / closure if unserviced for n years 09:13:05 <andythenorth> (for secondary industry) 09:13:06 <planetmaker> well. Unserviced industries may do what they want 09:13:25 <planetmaker> ok... maybe not for scenario things :-) So the parameter "no closures, no openings" might be nice 09:13:31 <andythenorth> not if I want to prevent the 'great industry death' problem five years after game start 09:13:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@88.130.191.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:14:03 <andythenorth> (that was in response to 'unserviced industries...' 09:14:09 <planetmaker> yeah :-) 09:14:24 <andythenorth> no openings is interesting. That would be 'total sandbox' mode 09:22:45 <planetmaker> yes, for scenarios and contests :-) 09:24:11 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc1ff8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:24:24 <andythenorth> planetmaker: primary industry.... 09:24:54 <andythenorth> no closures / no closures, no openings / other stuff 09:25:30 <andythenorth> other stuff relates to closure and production change. I haven't figured it out yet :P 09:28:37 <andythenorth> hmmm 09:28:51 *** IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 09:28:57 <andythenorth> Terkhen: you've played with FIRS where primary production doesn't change except when ENSP / FMSP are supplied? 09:29:26 *** nighthawk_c_m [~nighthawk@pD950630B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:29:56 <nighthawk_c_m> Morning everyone 09:30:04 <Terkhen> delivering supplies to primary industries is always the first thing I do 09:30:30 <andythenorth> have you noticed that there are *no* random production changes (up or down) :) 09:30:41 <andythenorth> I thought it would be weird, but I actually like it 09:30:45 <Terkhen> I have noticed that production never goes down 09:31:05 <andythenorth> do you think it should? 09:31:43 <nighthawk_c_m> I hate it when production suddenly drops jamming trains at the stations 09:32:24 <andythenorth> Terkhen: my original intention was that production might randomly drop if no ENSP or FMSP are delivered 09:32:30 <Terkhen> yes, but in smaller steps and possibly with a limit 09:33:03 <andythenorth> so not the default behaviour of halving production :) 09:33:28 <Terkhen> if the industry is not serviced correctly then the production should probably drop too.. but also in smaller steps than original industries 09:34:08 <andythenorth> In my recent game I've found that's covered by the algorithm that distributes cargo to stations 09:34:45 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F37B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:36:55 <nighthawk_c_m> If you could do that in smaller steps it would be great I think. Main annoyance is the mentioned 50% drop - and depending on thje industries previous outputs you suddenly have a bunch of trains digging in their noses waiting. 09:38:01 <nighthawk_c_m> Anyone know how I set up a game so I see the temperate climate and can make use of the varying snowline feature the canadian stations set offers? 09:53:37 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:54:00 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:54:53 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.19.119] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 09:55:13 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc1ff8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:56:56 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:57:21 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:58:19 *** Tennel [~Tennel@port-ip-213-211-212-60.reverse.mdcc-fun.de] has joined #openttd 09:58:56 <planetmaker> andythenorth: for contests or so a setting like "no closures / openings / prod. changes makes sense, for primaries 10:05:50 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.154.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:41 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 10:13:21 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:14:39 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:15:24 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!] 10:15:43 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 10:18:37 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe359.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:30:41 *** heffer [~felix@ip-88-152-182-156.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 10:30:42 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.103.88] has joined #openttd 10:34:32 *** Tennel [~Tennel@port-ip-213-211-212-60.reverse.mdcc-fun.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 10:39:03 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc1ff8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:45:11 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 10:54:26 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe359.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:54:58 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe359.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:57:02 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:58:49 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F37B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:52 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:59 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 11:02:37 <nighthawk_c_m> andythenorth: How can I add translations, or contribute? There are a few terms missing in German 11:03:02 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 11:07:22 <PeterT> is it a bug that openttd says "Game still paused (number of players)" twice? [07:06:31] <SN1> *** Game still paused (number of players) 11:07:22 <PeterT> [07:06:33] <SN1> *** Game still paused (number of players) 11:08:50 <Rubidium> nighthawk_c_m: sounds like you've loaded some untranslated NewGRFs 11:09:52 <nighthawk_c_m> As Industry GRF only FIRS 11:10:38 <nighthawk_c_m> 50% of the lumber miss is in german - the rest of the text lines seems to be untranslated 11:11:02 <nighthawk_c_m> its not looking like a mess, more like the lines are just not translated yet 11:11:06 <Rubidium> so the NewGRF is untranslated 11:11:19 <Rubidium> talk to andythenorth about fixing that :) 11:11:35 <nighthawk_c_m> Thats why I asked him on how to contribute to the translation 11:11:51 <nighthawk_c_m> but hes away atm 11:12:37 <Rubidium> woopsie, missed his name there 11:12:47 <nighthawk_c_m> ^^ 11:12:52 <frosch123> you could also just kick planetmaker :p 11:14:11 <nighthawk_c_m> 0.o what would that be good for? 11:14:31 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:14:51 *** mecool [mecool@94.129.145.100] has joined #openttd 11:15:01 *** JostVice [~jostvice@85.136.129.22.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #openttd [] 11:18:51 <frosch123> i would guess he did the current translation 11:19:30 *** JostVice [~jostvice@85.136.129.22.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 11:19:51 <planetmaker> woot? 11:20:20 <planetmaker> ah, FIRS translation? Yeah... not updated in eons. 11:20:29 <planetmaker> too much in a flux 11:26:54 <planetmaker> but I guess it could get one again. 11:28:35 <planetmaker> nighthawk_c_m: look at http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/sprites/nfo/lang/7F_any.pnfo 11:28:57 <planetmaker> The German language file has to look the same - but the actual text being replaced by the German text of course 11:30:02 <nighthawk_c_m> well, I think there are at the moment a few basic elemts which I believe will stay for a while - I'll have a look - so basically I just edit all the stuff and Send him the File? 11:30:06 <planetmaker> but I'm currently not even 100% sure whether it's used 11:30:24 <planetmaker> nighthawk_c_m: basically yes. 11:30:35 <planetmaker> The better way would be to make a ticket at the bug tracker 11:30:40 <planetmaker> :-) 11:30:44 <planetmaker> That's what it's for ;-) 11:31:09 <nighthawk_c_m> Well, there has to be some German stuff - basically the game Stuff thats from the original industries stays german, all new things seem to be in engliush 11:31:26 <nighthawk_c_m> Uh .. er I never wrked with such a system before ... 11:31:48 <planetmaker> yes; that might exactly be a result of "no translations". What is translated is OpenTTD strings, I guess 11:31:57 <planetmaker> BUT: if there's a proper translation it's easy to add. 11:31:57 <Terkhen> nighthawk_c_m: strings for existing industries and cargos are taken from OpenTTD 11:32:10 <Terkhen> at least in FIRS 11:32:20 <planetmaker> yeah, that's what we talk about 11:32:43 <planetmaker> nighthawk_c_m: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/sprites/nfo/lang/02_german.pnfo <-- that's the old German translation file 11:32:53 <planetmaker> You might use it for reference or so 11:33:03 <planetmaker> but use the layout of the English one 11:33:18 <Terkhen> I did not know that the translation support was already there :) 11:33:20 <planetmaker> and 7F ->02 and FF -> 82 11:33:35 <planetmaker> Terkhen: well, in principle for ages ;-) 11:33:43 <planetmaker> But... maybe it broke meanwhile 11:34:04 <nighthawk_c_m> Ok, So I'll grab that NFO stuff and just translate it as far as I get - I'll abuse the english one and just rename it :-P 11:34:06 <planetmaker> it was one of the first things FooBar and myself designed for the newgrfs. 11:34:31 <planetmaker> nighthawk_c_m: the name has to be exactly as the german one I linked ;-) 11:34:52 <nighthawk_c_m> That way I don't loose any formatting as I have no freaking idea of the NFO coding around the words :-P 11:35:01 <nighthawk_c_m> Well I can always rename it like that. 11:35:27 <nighthawk_c_m> Is tehre a way for me to upload it to the dev stuff after working for review or so? 11:35:54 <planetmaker> sure. But you need to register at the devzone. 11:36:17 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs <-- just create a new issue there 11:36:53 <planetmaker> and I just checked: it's like assumed: currently there's no active translation 11:37:07 <planetmaker> but it's just adding a line which includes it 11:37:27 <planetmaker> so, Terkhen you could also do that ;-) 11:38:27 <Terkhen> I'm already checking the languages... there is a waste cargo? 11:41:26 <nighthawk_c_m> Not implemented so far afaik 11:42:02 <nighthawk_c_m> Ok, so I registered at the dev Zone, how can I add myself as a contributor and tell that I take over the german translation? 11:45:58 <planetmaker> Terkhen: yes, there is afaik 11:46:11 <frosch123> nighthawk_c_m: first get started with translating :) 11:46:14 <planetmaker> small one-tile things in towns which produce it 11:46:26 <planetmaker> and waste disposal sites afaik 11:46:27 <Terkhen> I have never seen cotton either 11:46:34 <planetmaker> hm... I should play again a FIRS game :-) 11:46:41 <planetmaker> Terkhen: tropic only 11:46:49 <Terkhen> I always play tropic :P 11:46:52 <planetmaker> :-P 11:47:02 <planetmaker> then it's maybe not yet implemented. Dunno 11:47:21 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.19.119] has joined #openttd 11:47:21 <planetmaker> cotton farm missing or so 11:47:23 <nighthawk_c_m> Tropic has a problem afaik - I didn't see the water anywhere - like the water you need to get to the towns 11:47:39 <planetmaker> make another bug report about that :-) 11:48:00 <Terkhen> water plants 11:48:10 <Terkhen> they are present, at least at the nightlies 11:50:10 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:47 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:54:03 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c863.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:58:23 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:04:48 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 12:05:03 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:06:00 <nighthawk_c_m> I see that Andy has created a few industrial terms that are completely unknow to any dictionary :-P 12:06:09 <nighthawk_c_m> Lumber TReatment plant as an example :-P 12:06:21 *** ajmiles3 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:09:12 *** heffer [~felix@ip-88-152-182-156.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 12:10:18 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-36-227.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:11:38 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:12:10 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:12:25 <Terkhen> planetmaker: http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/screenshots/firstildes.png <-- special caracters such as tildes (Ã, é) require special treatment? 12:13:02 <__ln___> those aren't tildes 12:13:13 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:13:31 <nighthawk_c_m> those are axon's - french special characters 12:13:57 <planetmaker> Terkhen: are the strings marked as UTF-8 by starting with the thorn? 12:14:25 <Terkhen> in spanish they are called tildes :P 12:14:40 <frosch123> "Ã" <- thorn :) 12:14:43 <planetmaker> Terkhen: or use the escape for the thorn for better readability 12:14:54 <planetmaker> thanks, frosch123 :-) 12:15:37 <__ln___> Terkhen: acentos.... ñ tiene una tilde 12:16:09 *** mecool [mecool@94.129.145.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:16:10 <Terkhen> __ln___: in spanish, "acento" and "tilde" are not synonims 12:16:27 <Terkhen> planetmaker: I'm not sure of what you mean 12:16:39 <__ln___> lo sé 12:17:12 *** ajmiles3 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:17:49 <__ln___> Terkhen: is tilde the common name for acentos and the ~ symbol? 12:18:18 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:19:00 <frosch123> Terkhen: "Ã" is the nfo control character for "this string uses utf8". just start every string with it 12:19:23 <Terkhen> okay :) 12:19:42 <Terkhen> __ln___: yes 12:20:05 <__ln___> qué raro 12:20:10 <frosch123> don't ask me, why such a weird letter is used for Ãat Ãough. 12:20:11 <planetmaker> Terkhen: or add C3 9E in front of it 12:20:24 <planetmaker> without quotation marks before the first quotation mark for the string 12:21:11 <planetmaker> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=StringCodes 12:22:34 <Terkhen> okay 12:23:13 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:26:26 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/initialrandombits.diff <- access to randombits during house/industry construction 12:26:50 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:988:1a04:5e9c:7302] has joined #openttd 12:26:53 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:31:04 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 12:44:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F37B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:45:13 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:55:02 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:56:38 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:01:45 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19743 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Fix: NewGrfs could access map bits of not yet constructed industries and houses during construction callbacks. 13:10:01 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19744 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Add [FS#3477]: [NewGRF] Access to random bits of houses and industries from construction callbacks 17, 28 and 2F. That is: The randombits the house/industry will start with, if construction succeeds. 13:19:53 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.19.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:26:10 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:34 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 13:31:51 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:32:57 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:36:18 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc1ff8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:38:12 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:52:18 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has joined #openttd 14:02:07 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has joined #openttd 14:20:28 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:21:11 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19745 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix: The GUI is controlled by _local_company, not _current_company. 14:33:56 <__ln___> is this grammatical: "El registro es gratuito y con él puede obtener información ..."? 14:34:34 <__ln___> i thought él is a personal pronoun 14:35:17 *** Tennel [~Tennel@port-ip-213-211-212-60.reverse.mdcc-fun.de] has joined #openttd 14:35:54 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:36:12 *** PeterT [~PeterT@rdlbnc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:12 *** Jolteon [~Jolt@rdlbnc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:12 *** ajmiles3 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:40:40 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:40:58 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@au.dongues.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:42:04 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@au.dongues.com] has joined #openttd 14:44:10 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:49:48 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:00 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 14:51:20 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ff1ec000-127.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 14:52:23 <planetmaker> @ports 14:52:23 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 14:57:31 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 14:58:38 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 15:03:13 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-213-34-232-56.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:03:30 *** PeterT [~PeterT@rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 15:05:07 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ff1ec000-127.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:16:15 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:17:02 *** Yexo [~Yexo@205-89-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: bye] 15:17:18 *** Yexo [~Yexo@205-89-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 15:21:52 *** mecool [~mecool@94.128.22.79] has joined #openttd 15:25:07 <Yexo> from http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action7 "3 (veh ID map) yes* no * can't skip a livery override without skipping the main engine action 3 as well" <- is that comment correct or is it the other way around? 15:25:34 <Yexo> not being able to skip the main engine action3 without also skipping all livery overrides makes more sense 15:27:25 <nighthawk_c_m> anyone have a clue where I can find the arctic climate grf nowadays? 15:27:58 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-50.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 15:30:03 <Alberth> what "the arctic climate grf" ? 15:30:20 <Yexo> if you mean "alphine climate grf" just google for it 15:30:48 <Alberth> OpenGFX, GRFCrawler, Google, BaNaNaS are usual places 15:32:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19746 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window_gui.h): -Fix [FS#3675]: Do not recenter usually centered windows when resizing main window or changing language, if they have been moved/resized before. 15:34:24 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 15:34:49 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:44:57 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:51:19 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:51:35 *** ajmiles3 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:57:08 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:57:19 <blathijs> planetmaker: It seems the 0.2.4 opengfx tarball contains a bunch of ._filename files (where filename is another file from the tarball) 15:57:33 <blathijs> planetmaker: Those files contain binary junk with MACOSX in them, it seems 15:58:48 <blathijs> planetmaker: Seems like they're not in SVN, so the creation of the tarball was probably done on a mac? 15:59:10 <blathijs> planetmaker: s/SVN/hg/ 15:59:29 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:59:38 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:00:43 <Sacro> Yep, that's a mac one 16:00:58 <blathijs> There's 62 of those files in the tarball... 16:01:03 <Sacro> sounds plausible 16:02:12 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:02:43 *** Tennel [~Tennel@port-ip-213-211-212-60.reverse.mdcc-fun.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 16:04:07 <Ammler> blathijs: does that break building on debian? 16:04:08 <blathijs> That's 248KB of wasted space! 16:04:30 *** Jolteon [~Jolt@rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 16:04:32 <blathijs> Ammler: Probably not, haven't tried yet 16:05:10 <blathijs> It's just not very pretty, nor useful, so perhaps it should be avoided on future releases 16:05:14 <Ammler> blathijs: the update is quite important 16:05:22 <Ammler> trains are very ugly on 0.2.3 16:06:00 <blathijs> Ammler: Yeah, I'm working on the update, it's just that I've only just arrived a the "building" part :-p 16:06:11 <blathijs> I noticed the files on the "importing" part :-p 16:08:05 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:10:11 <blathijs> Ammler: Build worked just fine 16:12:16 <blathijs> Hmm, lintian also warns about the .hgtags file that's in the source tarball, but I think I've said that before? 16:22:47 <Ammler> mÀh, that still is in? 16:23:02 <Ammler> I thought, he "fixed" that... 16:26:34 <Ammler> if he doesn't arise, we should make a ticket again... 16:27:35 <Ammler> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/881 16:28:06 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 16:28:06 <Ammler> blathijs: could you add your excess there :-) 16:45:53 *** KloBass [~hadameko@20.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:51:16 *** KloBass [~hadameko@20.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 16:53:16 <andythenorth> hi hi 16:58:18 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 17:04:35 <fjb> Moin andythenorth 17:18:16 * andythenorth decides what to do about primary industry random production changes, closure etc 17:18:21 * andythenorth scratches head quite a bit 17:18:55 <nighthawk_c_m> Hi andythenorth 17:19:30 <andythenorth> I know some stuff: ENSP/FMSP to increase production. I know how to decrease production. 17:19:42 <andythenorth> Not sure what to do about the game's default random changes 17:19:53 <andythenorth> Also whether to allow primary industry closure? 17:20:40 <nighthawk_c_m> Well, I would make a parameter to decide whether the standard closure system is applied or no closures at all happen 17:20:54 <andythenorth> that's kind of my thinking 17:21:04 <andythenorth> but the standard closure system is actually a bit complicated 17:21:16 <nighthawk_c_m> "nd would be awesome for some testing as the "all industry close after 5 years of gametime " can be rather annoying 17:21:26 <andythenorth> I know 17:21:29 <andythenorth> I want to prevent that 17:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> industry location restrictions are easy to dream up but mostly boring in gameplay yes/no? <- i think they could be good for random creation, but bad for manual placement (scenario editor, funding) 17:21:57 <andythenorth> frosch123 Rubidium some grf local storage would be really really useful 17:22:33 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that's why I was looking to see if the location permissibility cb can test whether it is game or player trying to build the industry 17:23:02 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has quit [] 17:23:18 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's not possible currently, it should be easy to add 17:23:47 <Yexo> I'm quite sure it is possible, but I don't know how exactly 17:24:46 <andythenorth> industry var A7 looks relevant, but might not exist when testing construction? 17:24:54 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Industries#Industry_founder_information_A7_ 17:25:22 <andythenorth> I would like to control how the game distributes industries, whilst letting players put them wherever they like 17:25:32 <Yexo> only industry var available when the industry doesn't exist yet is 0x43 17:25:51 <frosch123> the variables accessable during cb 28 are mentioned at the cb 28 description 17:25:56 <frosch123> and you can tell the origin iirc 17:26:13 <Eddi|zuHause> might be subject to the same change that George requested for the random bits 17:26:21 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks#Industry_location_permissibility_28_ 17:26:55 <andythenorth> I'm surprised there isn't a var that already has that info 17:27:03 <glx> you can at least check the game mode 17:27:34 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 17:27:35 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: but the game mode is actually not relevant 17:27:48 <glx> for scenario it is ;) 17:27:51 <andythenorth> it seems like the kind of thing that is sometimes stuck in var 10 for example 17:27:54 <frosch123> hmm, maybe i confused it with cb 22 17:28:19 <andythenorth> hmm 17:28:24 <andythenorth> I could hack on cb 22 17:28:59 <andythenorth> I could use cb22, check var 18, store the result, then branch cb 28 depending on the stored value 17:29:07 <andythenorth> do cbs always run in a reliable order? 17:29:22 <frosch123> that won't work 17:29:35 <andythenorth> can't store in an industry not built yet? 17:30:13 <Yexo> it should be easy to make var A7 available in cb 28 17:30:40 <andythenorth> it would be useful :) 17:32:26 <frosch123> if cb 28 wouldn't be that headaching itself :) 17:32:56 *** Turgid [~DFwiki@ip70-176-132-25.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Local Group Galaxy of the Moment: Sextans Dwarf] 17:33:01 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:34:14 <andythenorth> I am working on FIRS 0.2 at the moment, mostly it's code stuff like this. 17:34:26 <andythenorth> not many shiny features or graphics :o 17:35:14 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/var_17_in_cb28.diff <- this should work 17:36:35 <glx> Yexo: you need to update IndustryGetVariable() too I think 17:37:33 <Yexo> glx: not needed, there is an industry in IndustryGetVariable, so it works already 17:37:38 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DAB96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:37:46 <Yexo> (all variables are available in cb28, just most don't have a meaningful value) 17:39:10 <glx> ah right 17:39:26 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc1ff8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:40:07 <andythenorth> grr 17:40:12 <andythenorth> line ending traumas again 17:41:38 <frosch123> Yexo: you should better add it to IndustryLocationGetVariable 17:42:01 * andythenorth has forgotten how to get a diff from a browser into a usable format 17:42:11 <andythenorth> hmmm 17:42:20 <Yexo> frosch123: ah, I overlooked that function 17:42:26 <andythenorth> does hg require anything different to svn when it comes to patches? 17:42:31 <frosch123> if (industry == NULL) { <- i am quite sure that test is supposed to deny access to any of the variables, except it does not work as it would have to check ind->index != INVALID_INDUSTRY 17:43:31 <frosch123> andythenorth: usually svn patches are -p 0, while hg patches are -p 1 17:45:23 <Yexo> frosch123: industry can be NULL in case of some callbacks called from the gui 17:45:42 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19747 /trunk/src/lang/ (galician.txt turkish.txt ukrainian.txt unfinished/irish.txt): 17:45:42 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:42 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: galician - 22 changes by Condex 17:45:42 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: irish - 244 changes by tem 17:45:42 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: turkish - 25 changes by niw3 17:45:43 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 2 changes by Madvin 17:46:17 <frosch123> Yexo: that is interesting as i added some assert(ind != NULL) some hours ago :p 17:46:38 *** SmatZ [~SmatZ@vs241204.vserver.de] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 17:46:50 *** SmatZ [~SmatZ@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 17:46:58 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 17:47:33 <Yexo> frosch123: industry_gui.cpp:68 17:47:35 <frosch123> i see, cb 22 and the fund text 17:48:08 <Terkhen> http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/screenshots/FIRSutf.png <--- C does not like UTF (cargo amounts are wrong) 17:48:40 <Yexo> Terkhen: what is the string you use? 17:49:32 <Terkhen> C3 9E "C cajas de suministros de ingenierÃa" 00 17:49:47 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 17:52:53 <dih> Yexo \o/ 17:53:32 <Yexo> Terkhen: that's a bug in openttd's code 17:53:39 <frosch123> thanks yexo :) 17:53:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19748 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix (r19743): Callback 22 and 38 are called with ind == NULL. 17:55:12 <frosch123> yexo, Terkhen: Finally, characters 7B..7F no longer function as the above formatting instructions, but will display regular glyphs instead (provided they are installed; by default TTD has none at these codepoints). Instead, to use these formatting instructions in UTF-8 mode, you need to use their Private Use Area codepoint at U+E0xx. 17:55:27 <frosch123> (quoted from the wiki) 17:55:50 * andythenorth defeated by patching :| 17:55:53 <frosch123> 7C turns into E07C 17:56:32 <frosch123> err. EE 81 BC 17:56:48 <Yexo> \UE07C <- that's easier 17:56:54 <frosch123> likely :) 17:57:12 <Yexo> it's still a bug in openttd as the control codes 0E / 0F should keep working 17:57:46 <Yexo> hmm, they do 17:57:51 <dih> *cough* Yexo *cough* squirrel *cough* 17:58:06 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-213-34-232-56.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 17:58:20 <Yexo> dih: you can guess the status of that :p 17:59:29 <dih> i am just giving you a little ... encouragement :-D 17:59:33 <frosch123> maybe it would be useful if andythenorth would also use the utf8 form in the english texts to simplify translations 17:59:53 * andythenorth is happy to do that 18:00:07 <andythenorth> or someone else can contribute patches to the language file 18:00:13 <Terkhen> Yexo, frosch123: thanks, it works now 18:01:32 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:33 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I can do it 18:02:44 *** amalloy [~Alan@c-67-180-16-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 18:02:51 <andythenorth> Terkhen: you know where the lang file is? 18:02:56 <Terkhen> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/915 <-- I can change these while I am on it too 18:03:17 <dih> TrueBrain: if your wt website is down anyway - do you still need the domain? 18:03:45 <Terkhen> andythenorth: yes, I have a working spanish translation now 18:03:47 *** amalloy [~Alan@c-67-180-16-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #openttd [] 18:03:53 <Terkhen> except for that UTF detail 18:03:58 <TrueBrain> need is a big word, but it was always ment as temporary .. so if you have a better goal for it, go for it :) 18:04:23 <andythenorth> Terkhen: feel free to fix 915 18:09:18 <nighthawk_c_m> andythenorth: I have done parts of the german translation for FIRS - how can I hand you the nfo? 18:09:42 <andythenorth> planetmaker: what's the best way to accept language translations for FIRS? 18:09:59 <nighthawk_c_m> probably needs UTF formatting too for some special german characters, if anyone tells me how to I'll be happy to fix it in the pnfo 18:11:28 <Terkhen> nighthawk_c_m: I'm currently coding a patch to add UTF support to the 7F_any.pnfo 18:12:08 <nighthawk_c_m> So there is no need for editing in the sub pnfo's - or rather copy that over to my german pnfo afterwards? 18:12:28 <Terkhen> you'll need to add these changes to your pnfo file 18:12:34 <nighthawk_c_m> Ah ok 18:13:02 <andythenorth> you guys should be aware that FIRS texts currently change quite a lot as a result of playtesting (sorry!) 18:13:38 <Terkhen> no problem, I'm already following nightlies anyways 18:13:48 <nighthawk_c_m> No problem, there are a few word creations that I couldn't find in any dictionary - and a hobby to keep translating - my contribution to your great work :-P 18:14:05 <andythenorth> :) 18:14:10 <Terkhen> yeah, some stuff was really hard to translate :P 18:14:34 <andythenorth> :o 18:14:35 <nighthawk_c_m> Some word creations don't seem to exist - at least not in my websters dictionary :-) 18:14:44 <andythenorth> maybe I should make them more standard 18:14:47 <andythenorth> any examples? 18:15:24 <nighthawk_c_m> Dredging Site 18:15:29 <andythenorth> ah :) 18:15:30 <nighthawk_c_m> dredging is a verb 18:15:44 <nighthawk_c_m> thus hard to translate into german 18:15:50 <andythenorth> In the USA it might just be called a Dredge Operation 18:15:54 <andythenorth> or Dredge 18:16:00 <nighthawk_c_m> Arable Farm 18:16:08 <nighthawk_c_m> That would rather be a Grain Farm 18:16:16 <Terkhen> in my case it was mostly stuff that I knew in english but couldn't think on a short spanish sentence for them 18:16:20 <nighthawk_c_m> as Arable is just referring to the underground / fields 18:16:35 <andythenorth> Crop Farm might be acceptable 18:16:58 <nighthawk_c_m> Make it Grain - only produces Grain atm - can be changed later on again if needed 18:17:18 <andythenorth> nighthawk_c_m that farm will also produce Sugar Beet / Sugar Cane as soon as I get around to it :) 18:17:32 <nighthawk_c_m> and I haven't done the message texts so far - only the Goods and the industries 18:17:33 <nighthawk_c_m> ah ok 18:17:52 <nighthawk_c_m> then Crop Farm would be better I assume (just suggesting) 18:18:01 <andythenorth> meanwhile....Yexo any chance of zipping that diff? I am having trouble getting it from the browser into an acceptable line-format 18:18:07 <andythenorth> unless the problem is hg 18:18:27 <Yexo> acceptable line format? just run dos2unix / unix2dox on it? 18:19:34 <Yexo> or just "wget http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/var_17_in_cb28.diff" to make sure your browser doesn't change anything to the file 18:20:33 * andythenorth installs wget 18:20:52 <Rubidium> nighthawk_c_m: wouldn't Arable farm be translated to something like Ackerbau? 18:21:03 <Terkhen> I never had problems using "save as" with firefox (except in windows, where it needs unix2dos) 18:21:06 <Ammler> curl <url> | patch -p0 18:21:47 <Yexo> patch should accept all line-endings anyway, so where is the problem exactly? 18:21:58 <nighthawk_c_m> Could be - I just used "Bauernhof" 18:22:09 <andythenorth> firefox used to work for me. But my svn checkouts of ottd failed. I have no way to fix them. I'm now using the hg checkout, I've never applied a patch with hg 18:22:12 <Rubidium> nighthawk_c_m: but that includes animal farms 18:22:30 <Yexo> andythenorth: you don't apply a patch with hg, you apply a patch with "patch" 18:22:38 <Yexo> that works eactly the same for a hg or svn checkout 18:22:50 * andythenorth is not very good at this end of stuff :( 18:23:16 <Rubidium> andythenorth: what Ammler said doesn't work? 18:23:37 <nighthawk_c_m> Rubidium: Worst case is atm the Mixedfarm - I will call taht Bauernhof then and pick up your idea for the Arable Farm 18:24:30 <andythenorth> Rubidium: nope 18:24:57 <Rubidium> andythenorth: what error does that give? (Guess curl: command not found) 18:25:13 <frosch123> nighthawk_c_m: it could be something like "Landwirtschaftsbetrieb" (arable farm), "Viehwirtschaftsbetrieb" (dairy farm), but yes mixed farm is hard 18:25:41 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttd.org/225727 18:26:27 <Rubidium> andythenorth: cd .. and try again 18:26:35 <andythenorth> tried that. still fails 18:26:41 <andythenorth> different error 18:26:56 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttd.org/225728 18:27:02 <nighthawk_c_m> MIxed Farm = Bauernhof / dairy Farm = Milchviehhaltung / ARABLEFARM "Ackerbau" 18:27:13 <andythenorth> one more idea 18:27:15 <Yexo> andythenorth: do "hg pull -u" first 18:27:57 <andythenorth> done that 18:27:58 <andythenorth> still fails 18:28:07 <andythenorth> also tried -p1 as suggested by frosch123 18:28:20 * andythenorth wonders why all vcs systems seem to fail on his system 18:28:22 *** nighthawkcm [~nighthawk@pD9506752.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:28:55 <Rubidium> andythenorth: hunk failed means it did find the files to apply it to, just that applying itself failed 18:29:00 <andythenorth> this is an unpatched repo 18:29:15 <andythenorth> I just pulled trunk recently 18:29:19 <Rubidium> the other one is where it can't find the file to apply it to 18:29:27 <Rubidium> andythenorth: define recently? 18:29:59 <andythenorth> created the repo on 25th April... used hg pull -u within the last 5 mins 18:31:45 <Yexo> I know there is a gnuwin32 version of "patch" available that crashes if it reads a patch file with non-windows line endings, maybe you have a similar incompatible version of patch for mac? 18:31:54 <Rubidium> hmm, it fails with my patch too 18:32:30 <Rubidium> ah, we've got a too new version of trunk 18:33:06 <Rubidium> in other words, Yexo please svn up and remake the diff :) 18:34:22 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I have posted a fix for 915 at the task 18:35:01 <Terkhen> http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/patches/index.php?source=firs/utf_conversion.diff <--- this converts all strings (except debug ones) to UTF, but it is untested besides opening the grf and checking a few industries 18:35:31 <Terkhen> (to get the real diff click on the first link) 18:35:41 *** nighthawk_c_m [~nighthawk@pD950630B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:35:48 <andythenorth> Ammler: can you give Terkhen commit rights for FIRS? 18:35:49 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc1ff8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:26 <Ammler> andythenorth: yes, I can 18:37:38 <andythenorth> seems like a sensible route 18:37:54 <Ammler> Terken, do we have already a ssh public key from you? 18:40:03 <Terkhen> I don't think so 18:40:10 <Terkhen> but I have to go, I'm already late :) 18:40:13 <Terkhen> see you tomorrow 18:40:19 <andythenorth> bye Terkhen 18:42:04 <andythenorth> Ammler: maybe tomorrow :) 18:42:23 <Yexo> andythenorth: updated patch online (same url0 18:42:33 <andythenorth> yay 18:43:12 <Ammler> andythenorth: add him as dev 18:43:15 <andythenorth> now I have to write some nfo to test it 18:43:17 <andythenorth> Ammler: yes 18:43:35 <andythenorth> if he goes nuts and recodes all of FIRS (a) I don't mind (b) I can always revert ;) 18:44:41 <andythenorth> Yexo: so this just makes var A7 available in cb28, nothing else to know about? 18:44:51 <Yexo> yes 18:46:53 *** BWJM [~BWJM@node-14661.pppoe.execulink.com] has joined #openttd 18:46:55 <andythenorth> thanks 18:47:10 <andythenorth> I don't have time to write the nfo right now, hopefully I will tonight or tomorrow 18:47:53 <BWJM> Is it possible to move a Coal Mine? Or at least to create a new one somewhere? 18:49:08 <frosch123> there is an advanced setting allowing to prospect primary industries, resp. to even fund them at a specific position 18:49:28 <frosch123> and there is the magic bulldozer cheat to remove one 18:49:45 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:50:29 <BWJM> What is the difference between "prospecting" and "as other industries"? 18:51:23 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:51:57 <BWJM> Nevermind - Figured it out. Thanks 18:59:03 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19749 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] possible divide-by-zero if a newgrf checked industry var 42 while the production level was 0 18:59:25 *** mecool [~mecool@94.128.22.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:59:35 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-213-34-236-151.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:04:52 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19750 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix: Var 0x43 is not 'safe' during callbacks 22 and 38 either. 19:07:20 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:17:41 *** Luukland [~Luukland@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:32:29 <glx> andythenorth: just saw your pastes, we said -p1 for hg 19:33:49 <glx> oh but it's an svn diff, so -p0 19:34:29 <glx> and of course always from root ;) 19:34:33 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA607.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:35:57 *** Pyr0_ [~chatzilla@186.19.39.116] has joined #openttd 19:36:19 <Pyr0_> Hello! 19:36:41 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:57 <dih> yes? 19:38:21 <Pyr0_> <i'm using 1.0.1 and wanted to try 32bbp (not the EZ just de normal zoom). Is Szvengar full pack the latest pack for 32bbp graphics? 19:39:53 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 19:41:37 <Pyr0_> Optimized full pack 11/04/2010 in one TAR file: Full pack. 19:41:57 <Pyr0_> is there any nightly build anywhere? 19:44:09 <nighthawkcm> Hmm... try searching the forums or on the openttdcoop devzone - usually there are nightlies for most developments 19:44:41 <nighthawkcm> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-extra/nightlies/ 19:44:45 <nighthawkcm> here you go 19:47:23 <Pyr0_> thanks but that is only for extras it's the baseset 8bbp replacement i'm looking for 19:50:04 <andythenorth> frosch123: resp. industry closures ('mass extinction') 19:50:19 <andythenorth> solving it correctly in newgrf is currently nigh-on impossible 19:50:41 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 19:50:41 <andythenorth> is it something that should be patched for? players keep on reporting it as an issue 19:50:57 <frosch123> hmm, didn't i made some patch a month ago or make random changes depend on number of industries? 19:51:23 <andythenorth> you did, but secondary industry still appears to go through mass waves of closure after 5 years 19:53:04 <frosch123> are you using the default test, or a custom one? and if you are using the default one, are you using "smooth economy" ? 19:53:44 <andythenorth> hmmm....closure is complicated :P 19:53:59 <andythenorth> you sent me industrychangesdependoncountinsteadmapsize.diff 19:54:20 <frosch123> yup 19:54:28 * andythenorth wonders how far I tested that one 19:54:40 <frosch123> but I guess industry closure of secondary industries is still broken for smooth economy 19:55:16 <andythenorth> I think so 19:55:34 <frosch123> so, does it work better if you disable "smooth economy" ? 19:55:38 <andythenorth> industry closure code is a spaghetti of possibilities, I find it hard to follow 19:56:23 <frosch123> i guess "smooth economy" should only be applied to primary industries. 19:56:41 <andythenorth> I think so 19:56:49 <andythenorth> don't see why it would apply to secondary 19:57:21 <andythenorth> I forget, but I thought you maybe changed that already? 19:57:54 <frosch123> well, most important: smooth economy does production/closure decisions for every industry every month, while non-smooth does one change in a map-size specific interval 19:58:47 <andythenorth> so I always use smooth economy....and I always see the mass-extinctions :) which makes sense 19:58:57 <frosch123> for a sane balance creation and closure should use the same "interval-type" 19:59:38 <andythenorth> my suggestion was (a) prevent more than one of same industry type closing in a month (b) make the 'protected' period a newgrf action 0 property 20:00:12 <andythenorth> I have 90% good nfo code to handle closure properly, but without grf-local storage I can't handle point (a) above 20:00:19 <frosch123> (a) basically means "no smooth-economy for secondary industries" 20:00:50 <frosch123> wrt. b) imo "protection periods" are stupid by design :p 20:01:46 <andythenorth> explain? 20:02:05 <frosch123> i cannot see any use in protecting a new industry a certain period. if the closure is not balanced then it will just close down after the protection period. 20:02:07 <andythenorth> because I have yet to find the 'right' length for them :P 20:02:31 <andythenorth> can we think of alternatives? Because I ran smack into the same issue 20:03:09 <andythenorth> this is probably one of the most reported genuine issues I've seen players report in the forums 20:03:25 <frosch123> imo, we should test a) first, before discussing b) 20:04:06 <andythenorth> hmm. a) might still suck 20:04:55 <frosch123> with smooth economy exactly 1/180 of the industries will close down every month starting after 5 years 20:05:24 <frosch123> so on big maps that has to result in masses closing down at once 20:05:56 <frosch123> using non-smooth will at least make them not close all on the 1st :) 20:06:35 <andythenorth> if this was a flash game, I would generate a range of random numbers and use those as chances of closure. I would distribute those to industries, prevent any industry sharing the same chance, and maybe some weightings 20:07:10 <andythenorth> ...to make some industries far less likely to close than others 20:07:42 <andythenorth> but in nfo I have no way to distribute a range across industries. I've thought of a hack using the town index, but that's a messy hack 20:07:51 <frosch123> you can do that all with the random production change callback 20:08:17 <andythenorth> yup, I have working code for nearly all of it 20:08:56 <andythenorth> hmm 20:09:16 <frosch123> callback 29 has random bits and can return close or stay. there are also random bits for the industry, the industrylayout, the industry colour, and well the industry type 20:09:23 *** Pyr0_ [~chatzilla@186.19.39.116] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 20:09:34 <andythenorth> but they are never guaranteed random across the grf 20:09:52 <andythenorth> sorry, that's badly worded 20:09:53 <frosch123> what do you mean with "random across the grf" ? 20:09:57 <frosch123> :p 20:10:17 <andythenorth> I need pseudo-random :P 20:10:33 <frosch123> random is random. there more industries there are on big maps, the more randomness has no effect as it will just turn into grey 20:10:42 <andythenorth> yup I know 20:11:01 <frosch123> so, what kind of "random" do you want? 20:11:33 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 20:12:15 <andythenorth> think we discussed this at some length before....the conclusion was that fooling around with random / pseudo random was a bad route 20:12:33 <frosch123> btw. if there are lots of industries (on big maps), i cannot imagine anything but lots of closures. (that is, news about closures are silly in any case on big maps) 20:12:40 <andythenorth> think we concluded that grf-local storage was the only practical route to prevent >1 industry of same type closing per month 20:12:59 <andythenorth> I'm not too bothered about *really* big maps with *lots* of industries 20:13:20 <andythenorth> the gameplay effect is diminished. So 3 steel mills close in one month, but you have 75 left. Big deal 20:13:27 <frosch123> see, that is what i totally do not understand :) "prevent > 1 industry of same type closing per month" sounds totally wrong if there are 1000 industries of the type on the map 20:14:06 <andythenorth> the problem is on smaller maps / sensible numbers of industries 20:14:22 <andythenorth> 'boom, and all my industries were gone' 20:14:51 <frosch123> i could understand if you would want to enforce some distribution of closured, e.g. either pick industries with far disatance from each other, or pick a bunch of industries from one region. but just limiting the amount... 20:14:51 <nighthawkcm> Well, the major problem arises with more complicated industry setups like ecs or firs - and if one industry is there a 100 times - you can always change the map creation industry setting or use the magic bulldozer 20:15:07 <andythenorth> in fact, it's not even industries of the same type. Suddenly after 5 years, the map loses an awful lot of industries...and players find it weird 20:15:51 <frosch123> but that is the problem of the weird "5 years". then that 5 year period should be randomised on game start, so they do not start at once 20:16:17 <andythenorth> yes to the randomised - but across what range? 20:16:20 <andythenorth> I just want to spread industry closures in time. The most robust way is a limit to the total number of industries that can close in a month. That limit can scale by map size / number of industries 20:16:37 <andythenorth> And to implement that needs grf-local storage, or have the game handle it :) 20:16:42 <nighthawkcm> well, if you paly a 1024 * 1024 map - with all the industry firs has, not a single one should close down as there is no overflow under normal circumstances 20:16:53 <frosch123> across 0-5 years of course. that is what it turns into when playing more than 5 years 20:17:10 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 20:17:16 <frosch123> [22:16] <andythenorth> And to implement that needs grf-local storage, or have the game handle it :) <- no, that is just point a) 20:18:01 <andythenorth> IIRC I spent some time trying to distribute the closure period. Maybe I need to revise my code :o 20:20:22 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 20:21:55 <andythenorth> meh 20:24:10 <andythenorth> if only I could do 'closure_period_this_industry = array.pop(random_position)' where array contains months * num industries 20:24:53 *** Markk [~markk@91.90.24.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:25:18 <nighthawkcm> Night guys 20:25:21 *** nighthawkcm [~nighthawk@pD9506752.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:26:07 <andythenorth> I am missing something fricking obvious somewhere :P 20:27:43 <Alberth> aside from the fact that a local NewGRF cannot not decide about such global matters? 20:28:25 <Alberth> not to mention the disaster that you get when you ever want to have a scenario 20:28:31 <andythenorth> Alberth: should I even by trying to solve this problem? 20:28:36 <andythenorth> by / be /s 20:28:52 <Alberth> I believe you shouldn't 20:28:53 <andythenorth> what's the scenario disaster? 20:29:12 <Alberth> some form of scripted economic control 20:29:44 <andythenorth> I don't think FIRS should be controlling industry closure to this degree. 20:30:12 <andythenorth> But this is the most common player complaint I get. I guess I have to try and do *something* about it :( 20:30:13 <Alberth> gives nice results and VERY complicated work-arounds when factories don't bother about it, and close down on their own 20:30:38 <Alberth> the same happens with plain industry chains 20:31:35 <Alberth> so why is it so much more of a problem in your chain? 20:31:52 <Alberth> s/chain/industries/ 20:31:56 <andythenorth> well it's pretty annoying in the default chain 20:31:59 <andythenorth> and in PBI 20:32:15 <Alberth> yeah, OpenTTD sucks in this respect 20:33:30 <frosch123> [22:24] <andythenorth> if only I could do 'closure_period_this_industry = array.pop(random_position)' where array contains months * num industries <- you have persistent storage and var 67? 20:33:45 <andythenorth> doesn't help 20:34:46 <andythenorth> still very easy for an industry to close in the same month as other industries. The array.pop line matters in my pseudo code :P 20:35:02 <andythenorth> Alberth: well if one of us could figure out what *should* be done, I can't see the actual fix being very hard to implement in OTTD 20:35:21 <andythenorth> except that economy code is already quite a spaghetti when I tried to read it 20:35:50 <Alberth> no doubt it is the usual mess :) 20:36:54 <andythenorth> too many fricking built in options combined with newgrf support that has even more options.... 20:37:05 <Alberth> andythenorth: as far as I can see, to have a nice global solution, you need a global plan, or be able to communicate between plants so you can compute a plan. 20:37:17 <andythenorth> global solution 20:37:33 <andythenorth> all we need to do is persuade players that the game didn't suddenly kill all the industries at once 20:37:37 <Alberth> neither is possible afaik in NewGRF, thus something else is needed 20:38:03 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/disablesmoothforsecondaryandrandomiselastprodyearongamestart.diff <- andythenorth: that i can offer for a) 20:38:15 <andythenorth> I love that filename :) 20:41:04 <frosch123> Alberth: we can add an advanced setting to scale _economy.industry_daily_change_counter. that way creation, closure and production-changes could be slowed down while keeping the ratio inmodified 20:41:41 <frosch123> that would allow players to have the same amount of industry changes on a map with 5000 industries as on a map with 10 industries 20:41:48 <frosch123> so they can read all news :p 20:41:55 <Alberth> smooth_economy ? 180 : 2 <-- wasn't that to prevent a flood of messages at the first of the month? 20:42:01 <andythenorth> people still have news turned on? 20:42:03 <andythenorth> my word 20:42:19 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 20:42:56 <frosch123> Alberth: previously that code was executed every month for every industry for smooth, and every month (on 256x256) for _one_ industry for non-smooth 20:43:16 <frosch123> that change disabled smooth for secondary industries as it is unbalanced with creation of new industries 20:44:23 <Alberth> frosch123: I was thnking about some form of feedback control where you have a set-point of x industries, and you count the actual number, and then decide whether to create a new industry. 20:44:41 <Alberth> *set-point for each type 20:44:49 <frosch123> players could also set that counter increment to zero, and would then get some kind of manual industries when using non-smooth economy 20:45:39 <Alberth> having manual industries sounds like a useful option to me 20:45:54 <frosch123> then the same setting would need applying to the smooth economy of primary industries. however, in any case newgrfs which close industries via the random callback are doomed in any case (but they are already now) 20:46:14 <frosch123> s/random/monthly/ 20:46:31 <Alberth> my solution was to ctreate a new industry when that happens, a few months later :p 20:46:34 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 20:47:50 <frosch123> Alberth: that reminds me about a different issue. you can control the initial amount of industries created on a map, but in the long run it will always converge to the same amount 20:48:08 <Alberth> frosch123: cannot oversee what all changes do, but patch looks useful 20:48:12 * andythenorth tests the patch from frosch123 20:48:33 <andythenorth> five years on fast forward I guess. Terkhen has a better way, but I don't know how to do it:o 20:50:18 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/industrychangesdependoncountinsteadmapsize.diff <- that patch would make the number of industries depend on the present number of industries, but the problem with this approach is, that the number of industries diverges exponentially. i.e. the more industries there are, the more are created, and the less there are the less are created :s 20:50:37 <Alberth> oops, rm != mv :( 20:53:24 <Alberth> doesn't sound like a good plan, you'll end with a mono-culture in industries :p 20:55:08 <andythenorth> game started 1990, first industry closed 27-03-1991 20:55:20 <andythenorth> second closure 13-05-1991 20:59:04 <frosch123> hmm, no, i missed the point of "industrychangesdependoncountinsteadmapsize.diff" :p it does not affect closure/creation ratio, but prevents a single industry on a 2kx2k map changing production twice a day 21:00:27 <andythenorth> vehicles are much simpler than industries :P 21:03:56 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:04:30 <andythenorth> 01-08-1992: two power stations close in same month 21:04:34 <andythenorth> but....that's my code :) 21:04:53 <andythenorth> this is not exactly a scientific test 21:05:35 <frosch123> what about new industries? 21:05:38 <Alberth> sure it is, you just need to repeat it often enough :) 21:06:55 <andythenorth> frosch123: two new industries built in 1990, none since 21:08:52 *** Luukland [~Luukland@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:09:19 <andythenorth> 22-02-1993 new fruit plantation 21:10:04 * andythenorth wonders how new industry construction chance interacts with probability during random gameplay for each industry? 21:10:24 <frosch123> ah, yes, i can remember that day. me any my school mates visited the plantation 21:10:42 <andythenorth> must have been a nice day out to Tinbourne 21:13:34 <andythenorth> new steel mill just got built 28-10-1993 21:15:37 *** Hackykid [~quassel@86.85.232.104] has joined #openttd 21:15:58 *** Hackykid [~quassel@86.85.232.104] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:57 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF844C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:25:10 *** luddek [~ludde@h-92-160.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 21:28:53 <andythenorth> frosch123: :| 21:29:11 <frosch123> :@ 21:30:32 <andythenorth> frosch123: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/closure.png 21:33:17 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ff1ec000-127.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 21:34:11 <frosch123> ind->last_prod_year = _cur_year - RandomRange(5); <- so, what does not work about that? 21:34:42 <andythenorth> dunno 21:34:55 <andythenorth> it's 1990, sign? 21:34:58 <andythenorth> meh 21:35:10 <andythenorth> sign issue? 21:35:22 <frosch123> (sure it would fail if you start in year 1-5 :p) 21:39:24 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:41:35 *** Combuster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:33 * andythenorth gives up on industry closure (again) :P 21:47:30 <andythenorth> FIRS will prevent closure until we've figured out a good way to solve the unsolvable :) 21:59:14 <Lakie> Just quickly, which plane is the x plane in (o)ttd? 21:59:22 *** KloBass [~hadameko@20.221.broadband4.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:59:22 * Lakie always gets confused 21:59:34 <Rubidium> the plane that bombs ufos? 21:59:43 <Lakie> Lol, na, tile coord 22:00:21 <frosch123> ne-sw 22:00:36 <Lakie> Ok, thankyou. :) 22:00:45 <frosch123> top of viewport.cpp 22:01:00 <andythenorth> frosch123: I am actually baffled why your last_prod_year patch produces those results 22:01:09 <andythenorth> far as I can see it should work 22:01:25 <andythenorth> I've read industry_cmd.cpp 22:01:27 <frosch123> andythenorth: actually it seems to work for me 22:02:00 <frosch123> though i uses default industries 22:02:17 <frosch123> maybe firs is unbalanced as there are more secondary industries than primary? 22:02:24 <andythenorth> could be 22:03:42 <andythenorth> it just seems weird that there are still very few closures in the first 5 years, then a mass wave 22:06:25 <frosch123> i might do some statistics tomorrow comparing firs and default industries 22:06:53 <andythenorth> Terkhen had a patch that outputs closures to the console IIRC 22:08:01 <frosch123> well, unless it is more than a few printfs i can faster do that myself than asking :p 22:08:18 <frosch123> anyway, night 22:08:25 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe359.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:39 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:12:45 *** markk [~markk@91.90.24.184] has joined #openttd 22:13:00 *** markk is now known as Markk 22:15:01 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 22:21:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F37B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:46 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has quit [] 22:26:55 *** Markk_ [~markk@91.90.24.184] has joined #openttd 22:28:59 *** Markk_ [~markk@91.90.24.184] has quit [] 22:29:30 *** Markk [~markk@91.90.24.184] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:30:04 *** markk [~markk@91.90.24.184] has joined #openttd 22:37:29 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:28 <planetmaker> I'd propose a poison distribution of lifetime till closure for industries 22:40:45 <planetmaker> with max=5(?) 10(?) years 22:41:25 <planetmaker> maybe map size dependent 22:41:46 <planetmaker> as building speed = linear, and mapsize = quadratic behaviour 22:45:11 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-36-227.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:45:25 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-213-34-236-151.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:45:36 *** markk is now known as Markk 22:47:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@88.130.160.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:43 *** luddek [~ludde@h-92-160.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: luddek] 23:00:32 *** Dongz [~HAPPY_CON@86.84-49-167.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 23:06:47 *** GEORGE_W_BUSH [~HAPPY_CON@86.84-49-167.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:09:56 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 23:16:55 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DAB96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der blÀht, als hinterster geht!] 23:17:58 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:20:38 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF844C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:33:24 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-197-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Something strange must have happened...] 23:44:20 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:44:38 *** BWJM [~BWJM@node-14661.pppoe.execulink.com] has quit [Quit: BWJM was killed by Baal] 23:48:14 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:48:29 <Nite_Owl> Hello all