Log for #openttd on 22nd June 2010:
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00:03:41  <fjb> The French like frog's legs...
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05:04:03  <argotron> hello
05:06:11  <argotron> I would like to compile OpenTTD for Leopard and Snow Leopard Mac OS X, but I'm not sure what files to get by svn. I tried svn:// but it will compile the latest nightly build. I would like to compile the latest stable version.
05:26:41  <argotron> svn:// found it! :)
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06:05:52  <argotron> configure: error: no liblzo2 detected
06:06:00  <argotron> I just install it via macports
06:06:11  <argotron> I get the same behaviour on both 10.5 and 10.6
06:09:05  <DDR> The lib is installed, right?
06:09:31  <Rubidium> it's probably just installed somewhere unexpectedly
06:10:17  <Rubidium> I would ask the Mac OS X port maintainer to help you, but... there isn't one (which is probably the issue you've got as well)
06:12:19  <argotron> the lib is installed, yes
06:13:10  <argotron> well, where does OpenTTD configure looks for it?
06:13:47  <Rubidium> in /usr and /usr/local I guess
06:14:36  <peter1138> why don't we use pkg-config for these things?
06:14:38  <Rubidium> in any case, it looks in the same places as it looks for zlib (which is apparantly does find for you)
06:14:53  <Rubidium> peter1138: because pkg-config for liblzo2 is Debian specific
06:15:18  <argotron> yes, zlib is ok
06:15:30  <peter1138> oh right, lzo doesn't have a pc file (even on debian)
06:16:03  * peter1138 goes back to bed
06:17:13  <Rubidium> hmm, why do I see to remember liblzo2 having something pkg-config-y when it doesn't have it?
06:17:47  <argotron> is it ok to distribute MacOS X OpenTTD bundles on my website?
06:18:09  <peter1138> argotron, technically you need to distribute the source too
06:18:19  <argotron> no problem
06:18:24  <Rubidium> as long as you comply to the license
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06:18:39  <argotron> There will be links to the official website too
06:19:45  <argotron> well, it worked just fine with --without-liblzo2
06:19:59  * Rubidium wonders how long it takes before people complain about it being broken in some way
06:24:05  <argotron> RUbidium, thanks for OpenTTD. I haven't got the chance to chat with you before. Thanks a lot for you work, it's an amazing game
06:26:34  <Ammler> argotron: please make specially the changes from original sources to your sources verbose, for example link to original source and provide a patch.
06:27:03  <argotron> I haven't touch the sources
06:27:24  <argotron> I got them via svn, ./configure, make, make build
06:27:24  <Ammler> then a link to or whatever should be fine
06:27:35  <argotron> sure, will do
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06:37:35  <Mazur> And the search continues.
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06:58:55  <argotron> allright, here it is:
07:09:10  <Ammler> argotron: Does it need the link to the download of TTD beside openttd?
07:09:40  <argotron> I thought it is a good ideea for people who like TTD graphics better
07:09:46  <argotron> like me
07:09:52  <Ammler> as ttd isn't abandoned and therefore it is illegal
07:10:52  <argotron> oh
07:10:59  <Ammler> <-- 2nd point
07:11:08  <__ln__> one cannot implicitly "abandon" copyright anyway
07:12:19  <Ammler> (you could link to amazon for example)
07:13:31  <argotron> fixed it
07:14:28  <Ammler> I got a 404
07:15:19  <argotron> where? on main URL?
07:16:28  <Ammler> no, the osx bundle
07:18:00  <planetmaker> hm... are there no snowy fences possible also with railtypes?
07:18:27  <argotron> Ammler, sorry for that, my bad, it should work now
07:18:33  <argotron> thanks for pointing it out
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07:34:02  * Rubidium wonders why you're not making an universal build with PPC
07:35:14  <Rubidium> after all, all the OS X trouble started when they started using x86 instead of PPC
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07:41:05  <argotron> I tried making universal
07:41:20  <argotron> when linking, it gave me an error related to PPC
07:41:31  <argotron> it could not link, or something like that
07:42:13  <argotron> oh wait
07:42:18  <argotron> this was on Snow
07:42:25  <argotron> let me try it on Leopard
07:43:07  <Rubidium> probably macports doesn't give you support for that out of the box or something
07:43:18  <Rubidium> like not providing universal libraries
07:43:38  <Rubidium> interesting that you link against an unstable ICU though
07:44:03  <argotron> unstable ICU?
07:44:33  <argotron> I've just sudo port install icu
07:44:39  <Rubidium> yes, ICU 4.3 is the development version number for ICU 4.4
07:45:12  <planetmaker> macports by default only compiles libraries which match the current environment
07:45:21  <planetmaker> macports accepts as parameter UNIVERSAL:=1
07:45:30  <planetmaker> at least for some libraries.
07:45:41  <planetmaker> it has to be supported by the respective package
07:46:10  <planetmaker> but even then UNIVERSAL has a different meaning depending upon the SDK you build against.
07:46:20  <argotron> how about sudo port install lzo2 +universal ?
07:46:22  <planetmaker> e.g. on 10.6 it only means to build i386 and x64 libraries
07:46:33  <planetmaker> argotron: yes, that way
07:46:53  <planetmaker> as such a ppc build will need building at least against 10.5
07:47:08  <argotron> will try doing it now
07:47:33  <argotron> I'm no programmer, I'm just doing this for myself
07:47:34  <Rubidium> although for universal you should link against the 10.4u SDK/libraries
07:48:19  <argotron> and I thought sharing with anyone interested, though any help or input is greatly appreciated, since making a quality think is a top priority
07:49:14  <planetmaker> argotron: building a truely universal binary is unfortunately not quite straight forward
07:49:34  <Rubidium> then you're probably better of fixing the bugs than figuring out how to make a universal build :)
07:50:09  <argotron> I could report bugs, I have little knowledge on how to fix them :)
07:51:29  <Rubidium> oh, there are even more bugs than the ones already reported
07:51:32  <Rubidium> +?
07:52:38  <argotron> don't ask me, my previous OpenTTD worked flawlessly (Windows7, WindowsX, Leopard)
07:52:49  <argotron> I'm new to this dev part :)
07:53:10  <argotron> erm, WindowsXP that is
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07:56:32  * planetmaker wants snowy fences
07:56:34  <argotron> interesting, after sudo port install lzo2 +universal, ./configure --enable-universal works and don't spit out errors about lzo2
07:57:28  <planetmaker> you will fail to install libtimidi via this easy macports way
07:57:41  <planetmaker> or I just didn't find it
07:58:03  <argotron> currently make-ing
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08:01:09  <argotron> src/table/settings.h:660: warning: integer overflow in expression
08:01:22  <argotron> but keeps on going
08:02:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20009 /trunk/src/signs_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3893]: sign sorting was unstable
08:02:48  <argotron> well, I don't think it will work:
08:03:28  <Rubidium> what do you think those errors tell you?
08:04:22  <Rubidium> start as usual at the top because later errors/warnings can easily be caused by the cause of earlier errors/warnings
08:05:48  <argotron> I'll let it finish and then post the whole log
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08:13:10  <argotron> fail compiling an universal:
08:14:05  <Rubidium> could've told you it would completely fail
08:14:26  <Rubidium> your libicu library is not a universal library so it fails linking to it for PPC
08:15:20  <Rubidium> the settings.h:660 warning makes no sense to me
08:18:14  <Eddi|zuHause> there's 5 kinds of issues in there: 1) icu not universal, 2) zlib is duplicate, 3) warning in settings.cpp, 4) warnings in newgrf_debug, 5) warnings in smallmap_gui
08:18:33  <Eddi|zuHause> settings.h
08:19:02  <Rubidium> the last is broken compiler
08:19:32  <Rubidium> then one before that is pointless (or is the destructor called on exit()?)
08:22:09  <Rubidium> the one before that I've got no clue about; there doesn't seem to be that much math in that line (or the macro expression expanded line for that matter)
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08:39:42  <argotron> allright, website moved to
08:39:55  <argotron> hopefully, it will stay here
08:43:41  <peter1138> chrome[18833]: segfault at bbadbeef
08:43:43  <peter1138> hee
08:43:55  <SpComb> canary!
08:43:59  <FauxFaux> Derrr.
08:55:10  <Rubidium> were you reading about unicorn meat?
08:56:10  <peter1138> um
08:56:17  <peter1138> no
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09:36:38  <argotron> on Snow Leopard, are there any switches for x86_64 or i386 options, when compiling OpenTTD?
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10:33:35  <Rubidium> argotron: probably something with CFLAGS="-arch ..."
10:34:45  <argotron> allright
10:38:20  <planetmaker> argotron, most easy - if you only want one architecture is to use gcc_select
10:38:40  <planetmaker> ah, nvm. wrong answer of mine ;-)
10:38:51  <argotron> I would like to build it for both archs
10:38:57  <argotron> both 32 and 64 bits
10:39:40  <planetmaker> then just --enable-universal is sufficient
10:39:45  <planetmaker> if you're on 10.6
10:40:15  <planetmaker> you just have to make sure to have all required libraries also as i386 and x64 version present
10:40:28  <planetmaker> e.g. having installed them via macports with +universal on 10.6
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10:40:48  <argotron> I tried that, but it fails while trying to compile for PowerPC
10:41:08  <argotron> on 10.6, that is
10:41:48  <Rubidium> planetmaker: it will always try to make PPC binaries with --enable-universal and never 64 bits (for that you need --enable-universal=64)
10:41:58  <Rubidium> but then you're still going to need PPC stuff
10:45:33  <planetmaker> Rubidium, true. Thanks
10:45:34  <argotron> damn
10:45:41  <argotron> I'm trying to avoid PPC stuff
10:45:43  <planetmaker> forgot about that...
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11:17:35  <peter1138> yay, another chrome segfault
11:18:32  <fjb> Moin
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13:25:08  <Belugas> hello
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13:43:58  <fjb> Moin Belugas
13:44:21  <Belugas> yo yo jfb
13:44:25  <Belugas> ahrg
13:44:30  <Belugas> fjb
13:44:31  <Belugas> sorry
13:44:45  <Belugas> it's morning you have to be forgiving
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14:17:13  <fjb> :-)
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14:32:52  <Ammler> he, glx, looks like you got free time for coding ;-)
14:34:17  <Eddi|zuHause> south africa must win with at least 3 goals ahead, and in mex-uru one must lose, then south africa has chances to go on
14:34:49  <Ammler> yes, but if France loses, mex and uru will qualify
14:35:15  <Ammler> or shall I check the table again?
14:35:39  <Eddi|zuHause> they both have 2 points, and the others have both 5 points, i believe
14:36:11  <Eddi|zuHause> so it can be 8,5,5,2 then between the 5's the goal difference counts
14:36:14  <glx> mex and uru just need a draw
14:36:36  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, if they have a draw, it's 6,6,5,2
14:36:47  <Eddi|zuHause> or 6,6,3,3
14:36:54  <PeterT> glx: I think france will lose :p
14:37:10  <glx> of course they will :)
14:37:14  <Ammler> :-)
14:37:34  <PeterT> :-D
14:37:41  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: theoretically, they play against one of the weakest teams in the world cup
14:38:13  <PeterT> South Africa got another goal literally 5 seconds after you said that
14:38:14  <Ammler> but they are resistant against vuvuzelas ;-)
14:38:24  <PeterT> I HATE VUVUZELAS
14:38:34  <Rubidium> I doubt France will loose in the 90 minutes alotted
14:38:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: oh, so THAT's the plan :p
14:39:04  <Rubidium> or is the game already started?
14:39:14  <Ammler> yes, around 30 mins
14:39:15  <PeterT> Rubidium: yep, started 38 minutes ago ;-)
14:39:20  <Rubidium> and they didn't strike?
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14:39:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: france has 1 player less, because of red card
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14:39:58  <Eddi|zuHause> (which was, apparently, too hard)
14:40:37  <PeterT> too harsh, you mean?
14:40:45  <PeterT> I agree, it was only an elbow to the face
14:41:11  <Belugas> better that then a hockey stick, if you want my opinion ;)
14:41:29  <Belugas> then->than
14:41:31  <Belugas> i think
14:41:41  <PeterT> haha :-)
14:41:44  <Eddi|zuHause> correct, Belugas ;)
14:41:49  <glx> seems way more valid than Kaka explusion :)
14:41:58  <Eddi|zuHause> but don't they have helmets in hockey?
14:42:36  <PeterT> glx: Kaka got a red? how are they going to win against portugal then?
14:42:42  <Ammler> [16:39] <Eddi|zuHause> (which was, apparently, too hard) <-- many red "wrong" red cards already
14:42:42  <Belugas> yeah, but it's not enough. they should wear knight armor, those guys
14:44:10  <Belugas> in the mean time, i've got something to announce!
14:44:28  <PeterT> Uruguay scores!
14:44:39  <Belugas> today is the last day of school for my son before summer vacations!!
14:44:52  <Rubidium> Belugas: the horror! :)
14:44:54  <PeterT> Belugas: congratulations! what grade?
14:45:04  <Belugas> for my wife, yes ;)
14:45:23  <Belugas> in septembre, he'll be on 1st grade :)
14:45:33  <PeterT> so he just finished Kindergarten
14:45:38  <planetmaker> oh :-)
14:45:52  <planetmaker> he looks as old that I thought he'd already attend school
14:46:03  <planetmaker> will be sooo exciting for him ;-)
14:46:09  <Belugas> yup.  he's happy.  he'll be with the olds now ;)
14:46:16  <planetmaker> :-)
14:46:22  <PeterT> hehe :-)
14:46:24  <Belugas> planetmaker, he's the tallest of his level.
14:46:28  <planetmaker> As long as he's looking forward all is fine :-)
14:46:29  <Eddi|zuHause> there's always gonna be someone older :p
14:46:41  <Eddi|zuHause> and they tend to always be the same guys :p
14:46:42  <PeterT> well, I enter my first year of high school next year :-D
14:46:42  <Belugas> whihc, as i've seen, is a good argument for him to the an openttd dev soon:D
14:47:07  <Belugas> been tall.. that is..
14:48:07  <Belugas> PeterT, first year of high school? in US you mean? that makes you like a teenager?
14:48:50  <Ammler> hmm, what is that? 16?
14:48:50  <peter1138> he's a young whippersnapper
14:48:50  <Belugas> that must be an exciting moment.  I can't remember my own time, to be honest
14:48:50  <Eddi|zuHause> watching a game on mute with subtitles is funny :)
14:49:06  <Belugas> lol@peter
14:49:24  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: because the subtitles lag a lot?
14:49:26  <PeterT> Belugas: yes, in US. I'm going to be 15 and going into 9th grade :)
14:49:35  <Rubidium> telling what has been said half a minute ago or something?
14:50:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yeah, about like that...
14:50:37  <Belugas> yurk... here is my delivery ... 254 logs to analyse
14:50:41  <PeterT> I think in the US, teenager is from 13-20 or so
14:50:44  * Belugas is on another planet now
14:50:52  <Rubidium> Belugas: add 2 and you're done!
14:51:19  <Belugas> :S
14:51:28  <Belugas> good luck and good fun, PeterT
14:51:36  <Eddi|zuHause> what would be funny now if france now doesn't appear anymore, and south africa gets scored 5:0 ;)
14:51:42  <glx> only if log count is uint8
14:51:55  <PeterT> Belugas, thanks very much :)
14:52:28  <Rubidium> ofcourse it is
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15:20:20  <__ln__> Tegel is quite non-big to be an airport of a capital city of a big country
15:24:04  <Eddi|zuHause> west berlin kinda hat space-problems :p
15:24:16  <Eddi|zuHause> schönefeld in east berlin is bigger
15:25:18  <__ln__> and somewhere i read that they are building something new to replace tegel
15:25:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the second problem of tegel is, that it is not reachable by train
15:25:42  <__ln__> i was just about to say tegel doesn't have rail connection
15:25:58  <Eddi|zuHause> afair, they are expanding schönefeld into "berlin brandenburg international"
15:26:13  <__ln__> (not that any airport in finland would have, not even helsinki)
15:27:16  <Eddi|zuHause> many german airports have rail connection
15:28:29  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but... even Amsterdam's airport is directly reachable from Berlin by train
15:28:32  <Eddi|zuHause> there's an agreement that inner-german flight tickets are also valid on ICE trains on the same route
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15:30:22  <__ln__> of german airports i've flown to/from Hamburg, Bremen, MÃŒnchen, Hannover and Tegel, and only Tegel and Hamburg (at least back then) weren't connected by rail
15:33:03  <planetmaker> [17:26]	<__ln__>	[17:20:21] Tegel is quite non-big to be an airport of a capital city of a big country <-- Berlin has three airports. All together they add up :-)
15:33:40  <Eddi|zuHause> three? i thought they closed tempelhof?
15:34:48  <Eddi|zuHause> haha... "france shot a goal, that makes them better than 2002 in south korea and japan"
15:35:22  <planetmaker> Schönefeld, Tegel and Tempelhof
15:35:28  <planetmaker> yes, the latter is closed meanwhile
15:35:29  <__ln__> tempelhof runway was filled with people rollerskating, but they didn't have wings. nor proper lights.
15:35:39  <Eoin> lolololol south africa
15:37:09  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: tegel might be fairly small, but you can get totally lost when driving a car :p
15:38:45  <Eddi|zuHause> and you can only park 20 minutes for free, which is kinda bad when the arriving plane is 50 minutes late
15:39:28  <__ln__> that can be a problem
15:41:19  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: the free parking time is quite common for airports
15:41:41  <planetmaker> the parking fees seem to follow a 1/r law wrt to the entrance of the airports
15:41:58  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: maybe they should do it like Marseille station; it's 10 minutes, but they stay there for more than an hour without getting fined
15:42:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you can stay longer, but each 10 minutes more is like 3€
15:42:46  <__ln__> i went to the Reichstag building before 10 o'clock this morning, but the line was already like 200 meters
15:42:46  <Eddi|zuHause> you have to pay on exit
15:43:05  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i never managed to get inside
15:43:10  <Rubidium> ah
15:43:13  <planetmaker> outch @ __ln__
15:44:22  <Eddi|zuHause> so... south africa has 6 more minutes to shoot 3 goals :p
15:46:24  <__ln__> that must be the so-called 'foot ball' you are talking about
15:46:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the finnish candy is great, but it's empty so fast
15:47:45  <__ln__> good to hear you liked it
15:48:30  <Eddi|zuHause> did you know that german is the only language where "Finnland" is written with two n?
15:49:04  <__ln__> i didn't know but i would have guessed so
15:49:25  <Eddi|zuHause> well, "important" language...
15:50:35  <__ln__> i assume Dumle is not available in germany despite the fact that the bag has text in german, czech and all other imaginable languages?
15:50:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i have never seen it
15:51:04  <Eddi|zuHause> but maybe i never looked
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15:51:51  <__ln__> i've also never seen it outside the nordic countries
15:52:49  <fjb> The finish candy is really great.
15:53:50  <__ln__> so, there's yet another reason for you both to visit finland
15:54:05  <Rubidium> it reminds me of "Chokotoff", although that's (much) harder
15:54:55  <__ln__> fjb: thanks again for the ride, btw
15:55:49  <fjb> No problem, the hotel was in my direction any way.
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15:57:26  <__ln__> uh oh, too much gprs data already, gotta go offline.
15:57:47  <__ln__> copenhagen airport out
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16:17:28  <Belugas> hoo... the frosch123 man!
16:17:33  <Belugas> welcome aboard
16:18:13  <frosch123> afternoon belugas :) evening everyone else
16:18:37  <Belugas> :)
16:19:40  <planetmaker> hello frosch123
16:21:57  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20010 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/chuvash.txt: -Add: Chuvash language stub
16:25:01  * frosch123 was never good at geography
16:26:56  <planetmaker> central Asia
16:27:46  <Belugas> ALL OVER THE WORLD!!!
16:30:09  <planetmaker> yes. true. By 34000 people outside of Chuvashia
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16:32:40  <Eddi|zuHause> what the heck is chuvashia?
16:32:52  <Eddi|zuHause> never heard of that place
16:33:00  <peter1138> sounds like a local village for local people
16:33:09  <frosch123> something between russia and turkey
16:34:56  <Eddi|zuHause> that is _in_ russia
16:35:22  <Hirundo>
16:35:34  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I wonder what Chuvashia is as well... it is said to be a republic but part of Russian
16:35:47  <Rubidium> s/n$//
16:35:54  <Eddi|zuHause> well, russia is a federal state
16:36:19  <Eddi|zuHause> so it's perfectly plausible that it consists of different republics with certain autonomous rights
16:36:23  <Rubidium> so Russia is like the EU?
16:37:25  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a little difficult to get it historically right...
16:38:03  <Eddi|zuHause> but even under communistic rule it was called a "federal republic"
16:38:33  <Eddi|zuHause> "russian socialistic federal soviet republic" -> "RSFSR"
16:39:52  <Eddi|zuHause> (and today it's called "Russian federation")
16:40:40  <Rubidium> so it's a bit of a special case
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16:44:30  <Eddi|zuHause> wikipedia says "republics" were created for non-russian people within russian territory
16:44:37  <Eddi|zuHause> other areas have less autonomy
16:45:19  <Eddi|zuHause>
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17:12:03  <Wolf01> hi
17:12:19  * Rubidium pre-emptively burries Wolf01
17:15:27  <fjb> Moin Wolf01
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17:45:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20011 /trunk/src/lang/ (indonesian.txt swedish.txt):
17:45:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: indonesian - 4 changes by adjayanto
17:45:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: swedish - 11 changes by tool
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18:10:28  <Belugas> welcome home sir Alberth
18:10:48  <Alberth> hello Belugas
18:13:52  <fjb> Hello Alberth
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18:14:16  <Alberth> it is a bit quiet here, it seems
18:14:22  <Alberth> hello fjb
18:14:40  <Belugas> quite :)
18:14:47  <Wolf01> hello Alberth
18:14:59  <Belugas> people are saying hello and just go silent :)
18:15:29  <Alberth> hmm, I should stop typing words here, then :)
18:15:36  <PeterT> hello fjb, Belugas, Wolf01, Alberth
18:15:37  * PeterT silent
18:17:19  <Alberth> anybody know how to convince hg that changes in line-endings are not real changes, and can be ignored safely?
18:18:36  <Eddi|zuHause>  -w --ignore-all-space     ignore white space when comparing lines?
18:20:09  <Belugas> hg... one day, i shold get on it...
18:20:35  <Alberth> today seems like a good day to me :)
18:21:12  <Belugas> hem... nope, i'm only halfway through my 254 logs uner investigation ;)
18:21:21  <Belugas> but thanks for the invitation hehehe
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18:46:28  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I have the Win32text extension enabled  , and it makes a mess with a file that has different line endings
18:47:00  <Alberth> But they now also have EolExtension, I noticed, which seems very interesting
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19:06:30  <Ammler> Alberth:
19:07:14  <Ammler> dunno, if that is still up2date :-/
19:09:13  * Alberth does hard-core cli terminal usually
19:09:54  <Ammler> well, that is also for the console mercurial
19:11:06  <Ammler> tortoisehg is just a frontend, afaik
19:11:40  <Yexo> you can set all those options also in ~/.hgrc
19:13:31  <Ammler> tortoisehg is btw. also very nice on linux :-)
19:16:08  <Alberth> yes, but you cannot script clicking on a button, hence I prefer cli
19:17:25  <Alberth> Ammler: "... it's decided that only Unix style line endings should be used in  commits..." still holds?
19:17:26  <Alberth> if so, the docs/license.ptxt is broken.
19:17:51  <Ammler> Alberth: well, that was made for opengfx
19:17:51  <Alberth> (and it should be "it has been decided", I think, but that is another matter)
19:18:11  <Ammler> I think, it is generally up to the project managers :-)
19:18:19  <Alberth> oh, for swedishrails is that
19:18:34  <Ammler> but I guess, a good recommendation