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Log for #openttd on 27th June 2010:
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00:19:52  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20024 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Remove the need to link with dxguid.lib for windows.
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07:39:59  <DJNekkid> hi guys... looking at railtype varaction2 specs, variable 40, why isnt there a "arctic" tile there?
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07:51:04  <DJNekkid> i know it _can_ be done via action 7/9, but it would be much cleaner code if that exsisted
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08:12:13  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: there's the tiletype which can return 'snow'
08:12:21  <planetmaker> look at swedishrails :-)
08:13:12  <planetmaker> arctic climate can have two ground tile types: 'normal' and 'snow'
08:16:20  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: i know, but then why are there deseret and rainforest? wouldnt the rainforest be "normal" as such?
08:17:11  <planetmaker> you're right there :-)
08:17:42  <planetmaker> but snow might be somewhat different: it can change by the snowline height
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08:18:05  <planetmaker> there's no 'desert height' or 'rainforest height'
08:18:16  <DJNekkid> no, but still...
08:18:18  <andythenorth> how do I apply a patch from a remote URL again?
08:18:23  <andythenorth> patch -p0 < ??
08:18:27  <planetmaker> ^
08:18:32  <planetmaker> or -p1
08:18:34  <planetmaker> depends
08:18:40  <DJNekkid> i see why they have both desert and snow
08:18:44  <Ammler> curl <url> | patch -p1
08:18:56  <DJNekkid> but why the rainforest is there, and arctic isnt i dont see
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08:19:56  <DJNekkid> its not consistant :)
08:19:57  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: both, desert and rainforest cannot change
08:20:04  <planetmaker> snow can change
08:20:08  <andythenorth> Ammler: thanks
08:20:11  <planetmaker> so only those constants are given there
08:20:18  <andythenorth> trying the transfer patch from planetmaker :)
08:20:24  <planetmaker> :-)
08:21:03  <planetmaker> you have with that desire, andythenorth a VERY good point. It annoyed me multiple times already
08:21:12  <planetmaker> actually every time I use transfer orders
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08:21:41  <Ammler> what does the patch?
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08:21:57  <planetmaker> Ammler: selecting transfer implies "no loading"
08:22:09  <planetmaker> automatically selected
08:22:13  <DJNekkid> i guess i'll just use an action7 then...
08:22:14  <planetmaker> you can revert it
08:22:33  <ccfreak2k> Oh no!
08:22:34  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: why? you can query climate and tiletype in action2
08:22:36  <ccfreak2k> Not action 7!
08:22:47  <planetmaker> ccfreak2k: action9 maybe? ;-)
08:22:58  <planetmaker> maybe 69... :-P
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08:23:23  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: that is what i would like to do, but there is no "arctic tile" just "normal"
08:23:46  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: yes. But in arctic you only have to know "snow" or "no snow"
08:24:10  <planetmaker> hm... maybe NML made it too easy for me ;-)
08:24:26  <andythenorth> planetmaker: that patch is a win
08:24:41  <DJNekkid> its just that i do all tiletypes in one go...
08:24:59  <planetmaker> That's what railtypes do provide, yes
08:25:07  <planetmaker> you don't HAVE to worry about the climate
08:25:16  <planetmaker> just provide under and overlay. And only care about snow
08:25:17  <DJNekkid> for the subway tracks i do :)
08:25:21  <planetmaker> Nothing more required, no?
08:25:27  <planetmaker> ah
08:25:33  <planetmaker> fair enough
08:25:42  <DJNekkid> :D
08:26:46  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: then I'd go for: design a custom parameter which holds "temperate", "desert", "rainforest", "arctic" and "snow"
08:26:54  <planetmaker> and then base the decision upon that parameter
08:27:11  <planetmaker> actually. Not snow in there
08:27:13  <planetmaker> but still
08:27:27  <planetmaker> snow has to follow
08:27:31  <planetmaker> ah damn :-)
08:27:50  <DJNekkid> im more thinking action7/9 to check for arctic or temperate, and then var2-40 the rest
08:28:03  <planetmaker> yes :-)
08:28:37  <planetmaker> it's surprising how easy it is to forget about varaction2 vs. action 7/9 vs. actionD when one just can use everything in a unified switch statement :-)
08:29:01  <DJNekkid> ive never used thoose action Ds
08:29:40  <planetmaker> reading grf parameters? Oh yes, you do ;-)
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08:29:48  <planetmaker> writing base costs?
08:30:01  <DJNekkid> oh, hehe
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08:32:41  <planetmaker> [10:24]	<andythenorth>	planetmaker: that patch is a win  <-- good to know that it works for you :-)
08:33:00  <planetmaker> then I assume I've won a lobbyist for that patch :-P
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08:38:17  <Ammler> now go on strike until it gets trunk :-P
08:39:12  <DJNekkid> what condition type do i use when checking climate?
08:43:17  <planetmaker> what do you mean with condition type, DJNekkid ?
08:43:50  <DJNekkid> the 4th byte of a action7/9
08:43:50  <planetmaker> you check the global var which stores the climate
08:44:38  <planetmaker> variable 83
08:45:07  <planetmaker> you read one byte from it
08:45:07  <DJNekkid> var2?
08:45:17  <planetmaker> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action7
08:46:13  <DJNekkid> http://paste.openttd.org/226020
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08:47:20  <DJNekkid> supposed to be comment with "1 byte range" and not "4 byte range"
08:49:22  <asilv> condition type would be = (Parameter is equal to value), i guess
08:49:32  <DJNekkid> hmm, can use varaction2 variable 03 as well
08:51:02  <planetmaker> indeed. Sounds more reasonable
08:51:13  <planetmaker> avoids action7/9
08:51:23  <DJNekkid> yea
08:59:19  <DJNekkid> http://paste.openttd.org/226021
08:59:25  <DJNekkid> should be like that i think?
08:59:35  <DJNekkid> (sort of tierd)
09:05:35  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20025 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Doc: Fix/add comments to let Doxygen know about the documentation.
09:12:52  <planetmaker> looks somewhat ok, DJNekkid
09:13:11  <planetmaker> but I still don't dream the varaction2 sequences ;-)
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09:19:58  <DJNekkid> are there any updated renums around yet btw? (that properly support railtypes)
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09:20:36  * andythenorth ponders more ships
09:22:24  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: there aren't to my knowledge; though Yexo somewhen created a patch; but I don't know about the whereabouts of binaries
09:22:43  * andythenorth is playing a UKRS game with very small industry production (18-50t at most primaries)
09:22:50  <andythenorth> small production is fun
09:24:08  <andythenorth> however the range of airports available in 1960 is....not fun
09:24:10  <andythenorth> :|
09:34:27  <Eddi|zuHause> so... how many more of these newgrf-projects is NekoMaster starting without having any clue what to do?
09:34:58  <planetmaker> about a dozen
09:36:30  <andythenorth> he's enthusiastic though.
09:36:34  <andythenorth> and getting more articulate :)
09:36:42  <andythenorth> so mostly harmless
09:39:59  * andythenorth wants a helipad :(
09:40:26  * andythenorth wonders where the airport date code is
09:40:27  * DJNekkid DCC's andy a helipad
09:41:01  <andythenorth> airport.cpp looks like a good place to start
09:41:04  <Alberth> somewhere in src/table/   I suspect
09:41:58  <andythenorth> src/table/airport_defaults.h
09:42:04  <andythenorth> Alberth: thanks :)
09:42:52  <Alberth> technically, it is not code :D
09:43:53  <andythenorth> airport dates are currently....unsatisfactory :)
09:44:01  <andythenorth> I suspect it depends on start date though
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10:28:36  * andythenorth three road stops per farm looks like a lot :P
10:28:48  <andythenorth> two pickup (one per cargo), one dropoff (supplies)
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11:08:10  * andythenorth "make mine a 99"
11:08:15  <andythenorth> (in honour of Pikka)
11:10:26  <Eddi|zuHause> # football play we better than you
11:13:33  <DJNekkid> what exactly is concidered a rainforest tile?
11:14:07  <Eddi|zuHause> a grass tile in tropic
11:14:32  <Rubidium> DJNekkid: there where tropic trees grow (quickly)
11:14:32  <DJNekkid> that is what i would think as well
11:15:00  <DJNekkid> so, in other words, they dont really exsist? :)
11:15:05  <DJNekkid> hehe
11:15:26  <Rubidium> they do exist
11:15:48  <DJNekkid> but they arent as eddi say, the green tiles in tropical climate?
11:16:16  <Eddi|zuHause> have you used the query tool yet?
11:16:39  <DJNekkid> "grass"
11:16:58  <DJNekkid> and ... rainforest on the ones with trees on them
11:17:42  <DJNekkid> guess you can just skip my last bugreport on flyspray then
11:17:52  <DJNekkid> or optionally make it into the "green" tiles as well
11:18:00  <Rubidium> not all green tiles are tropical tiles
11:18:13  <DJNekkid> shores seem to be desert :)
11:18:52  <Rubidium> could be... IIRC tropical is only above a specific level
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11:23:01  <DJNekkid> hmm, wierd, but okidoki :D
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11:23:12  <DJNekkid> now "it" "works" :D
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11:54:13  <Vasa> hi, I'm totally new to src code compiling, and patch applying in windows
11:54:35  <Vasa> I downloaded Tortoise SVN
11:55:01  <Vasa> Make the SVN checkout
11:55:44  <Vasa> But after I try to apply patch, I just get a blank TortoiseMerge window
11:55:50  <Vasa> Any idea?
11:56:15  <Rubidium> good chance you've got a patch that tortoise doesn't understand
11:57:13  <Vasa> I'd like to apply the automated timetables, and separation patch
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12:00:02  <Rubidium> so before others go searching... that's definitely one of the patches that doesn't apply in tortoise
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12:08:56  * Alberth is wondering whether it would be better to recommend hg to newbies. No svn:/ downloading, better chances with patch applying.
12:09:47  <Alberth> downside may larger download size due to the history.
12:09:52  <Alberth> *be
12:12:15  <Alberth> hmm, difference is not that big
12:14:07  <andythenorth> somehow hg clicks better with my brain
12:14:10  <Rubidium> a working buildottd would still be superior
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12:16:23  <Vasa> Hi, it's me again: my problem is: try to apply patch in windows with tortoiseSVN
12:16:36  <Vasa> But when I choose add patch, I only get a blank tortoiseMerge window
12:16:50  <Vasa> after I pick the patch file
12:16:58  <Rubidium> Vasa: the patch format you want to apply isn't "supported" by tortoisesvn
12:16:59  <Alberth> you already tried a compile without applying the patch?
12:17:24  <Rubidium> it is supported by all other tools I know to apply patches
12:17:44  <Rubidium> it's been, in my opinion, a very weak point of tortoisesvn
12:18:03  <Vasa> no
12:18:33  <Vasa> actually, that's going to my next question, how to comply?
12:19:54  <Alberth> better make the the first question :)     if you apply the patch before compiling for the first time and it breaks, you don't know what to blame, the patch, or your compiler install
12:20:03  <Rubidium> Vasa: follow http://wiki.openttd.org/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2008_Express_Editions
12:20:17  <Vasa> okay, thank you
12:20:35  <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_development#Now_I_have_got_the_source_code_how_can_I_compile_it.3F
12:20:47  <Rubidium> Vasa: thing is that installing everything you need on Windows is several magnitudes harder than on (most) other operating systems
12:22:33  <Rubidium> there once was a tool that did most of the difficult stuff for you, i.e. you only needed to tell which version of OpenTTD and which patch to apply and then it would compile everything for you... but it has been broken for almost two years and nobody has resurrected it
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12:50:53  * andythenorth needs a helistation with more landing pads :P
12:51:04  <andythenorth> "when will new airports be done" :P
12:52:52  <Alberth> when everything is committed to trunk
12:59:35  <Sacro> we should rewrite openttd in php
12:59:41  <Sacro> then we'd have none of these compiling issues
13:00:30  <andythenorth> php always wins :P
13:02:37  <Sacro> yep
13:12:49  <Alberth> yeah, replacing a simple compiler issue with using a broken language sounds like a good plan indeed
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13:16:12  <Akebono> !password
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13:16:29  <PeterT> :-D
13:16:48  <PeterT> @password
13:16:48  <DorpsGek> PeterT: Error: That operation cannot be done in a channel.
13:16:52  <PeterT> haha!
13:33:37  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20026 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Codechange: No need to copy a formal parameter if the value is not needed further.
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14:20:23  <frosch123> hmm, someone must have scored :p
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14:39:11  <Ammler> hmm, it is still the tournament of refeeres
14:40:35  * andythenorth wants to bet some code against the outcome of this football match
14:40:46  <andythenorth> what pony do I get if we win?
14:40:55  <andythenorth> and what do I have to write if you lot win :P
14:41:24  <glx> Ammler: that's a good reason to refuse video ;)
14:41:36  <Ammler> true :-P
14:43:20  <Ammler> andythenorth: who is "you lot"?
14:43:46  <Eoin> im glad theres no video refereeing
14:43:47  <Eoin> :P
14:44:36  <andythenorth> Ammler: the one's who are playing England right now :D
14:44:43  <glx> but sometime the 4th referee checks the video
14:46:32  <Ammler> hehe, the "Wembley Goal" :-)
14:47:23  <PeterT> !score
14:47:23  <Eoin> FIFA World Cup: Germany 2 - 1 England (Half Time)
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14:51:40  * andythenorth wonders about a day length patch
14:51:44  <andythenorth> time is passing too quickly
14:52:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: well, it's the balance for the one in '66 ;)
14:52:51  <Ammler> I think, the influence of the referees is already too high in Africa.
14:53:28  <Eddi|zuHause> well, something really extreme must happen before a system will be changed
14:59:40  <frosch123> yeah, just as expected, some fool already updated the wiki page about the wembley goal :p
15:00:04  <Eddi|zuHause> hehe ;)#
15:00:39  <Eddi|zuHause> funnily, i stumbled upon that page just yesterday...
15:14:41  <Eoin> http://images.4chan.org/sp/src/1277651296722.jpg
15:17:58  <KingJ> heh
15:27:32  <frosch123> who needs a tv, if the window is opened :)
15:27:32  <valhallasw> :D
15:27:32  <frosch123> omg, they even have fireworks...
15:27:32  <Eddi|zuHause> hey... 4:1 is fireworks worthy ;)
15:27:32  <Rubidium> good luck inhaling me then :)
15:27:32  <Eoin> bye bye England
15:27:32  <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't Enschede the place where a fireworks factory blew up?
15:27:35  <frosch123> all, rb's fault :p
15:27:39  <Eddi|zuHause> were you involved in that? :p
15:28:16  <Rubidium> I didn't live in E'de back then
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18:21:05  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r20027 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt irish.txt romanian.txt):
18:21:05  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:21:05  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: irish - 61 changes by tem
18:21:05  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 changes by Tucalipe
18:21:06  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: romanian - 12 changes by kkmic
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20:34:09  <planetmaker> is my assumption correct that it was moderately easy to give depots a build date as they exist already as a pool object, but the same would virtually be impossible for level crossings and tunnels as they're just ground tiles without special pool object on them?
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20:44:07  <Alberth> not very much at home with pools, but having an object to store the data in, seems an advantage to me :)
20:44:52  <planetmaker> and indeed those two don't have pools, right?
20:46:12  <peter1138> correct
20:47:21  <peter1138> levelcrossingpool!
20:47:32  <Rubidium> NEMB!
20:47:44  <peter1138> well, enginepool was a hugely anticipated feature...
20:48:36  <Rubidium> but that didn't need map bits
20:51:20  <peter1138> NEMB?
20:51:35  <Terkhen> New England Miniature Ball?
20:51:35  <Rubidium> "not enough map bits"
20:51:53  <planetmaker> ah, a pity :-)
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20:52:14  <planetmaker> I guess I should start playing with the two pseudo-random bits
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21:31:30  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: i might be on the american steppes here, but if a "build date" is enabled for one track-part, i cant see why it shouldnt be enabled for the rest of them?
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21:42:24  <planetmaker> hm, is it?
21:43:17  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=130721 <-- random fence graphics :-)
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21:45:57  <DJNekkid> nice :D
21:46:10  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: I don't see build dates on tracks. Only depots and stations
21:46:21  <Hirundo> planetmaker: randomized using NML or nfo?
21:46:26  <planetmaker> Hirundo: NML
21:46:38  <planetmaker> but as you're here... how does the probability work?
21:46:50  <planetmaker> what do the numbers I give there actually mean?
21:47:15  <Hirundo> they're relative probabilities
21:47:27  <planetmaker> http://paste.openttd.org/226025
21:47:48  <planetmaker> relative... so it doesn't depend upon the random bits of that thing?
21:48:19  <Hirundo> The sum of all probabilities has to fit within the random data
21:48:27  <Hirundo> so for railtypes, it can be no more than 4
21:48:28  <planetmaker> ah, ok. It does
21:48:48  <planetmaker> and I read the feature for it.
21:48:59  <planetmaker> I don't get the dependent and independent part you talk about there
21:49:06  <planetmaker> obviously I don't need it, but...?
21:49:27  <Hirundo> you can say 'A uses the same bits as B' or 'A uses different bits than B'
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21:49:47  <planetmaker> A and B are?
21:49:55  <Hirundo> two different random blocks
21:50:43  <planetmaker> ah, so it only matters if I chain them?
21:52:14  <Hirundo> At least, if you use them for the same itesm
21:53:40  <planetmaker> ah... so it's like
21:53:48  <PeterT> NekoMaster's excuses for not being able to compile get less amusing as he goes along
21:53:53  <planetmaker> independent: name-of-other-random-block;
21:54:05  <planetmaker> dependent: name-of-other-random-block2
21:55:26  <planetmaker> Hirundo: I wonder though one thing: should it possibly be named random_switch instead of just random?
21:56:11  <Hirundo> hmm.. good point
21:56:30  <PeterT> Hirundo: when you build new bundles, I'll ask to have the server put back up
21:56:39  <PeterT> Peter's IS2.1.1 Server
21:57:01  <Hirundo> does the current version work?
21:57:11  <PeterT> IS2.1.1?
21:57:18  <PeterT> or the trunk patches you posted?
21:57:26  <Hirundo> the latest patches / hg repo
21:57:34  <PeterT> oh, didn't test those yet
21:57:57  <PeterT> the owner of the server also doesn't want to compile many times, him and I would rather use a release
21:58:29  <Terkhen> yeah, msys is kinda expensive
21:59:24  <Hirundo> I could fire up my MSVC to build a release binary
21:59:41  <PeterT> Hirundo: we're on ubuntu
21:59:59  <Hirundo> but your users are not, generally :)
22:00:11  <PeterT> this is true.
22:00:29  <PeterT> are you saying that if we compile an hg build, it will become IS2.1.2?
22:01:01  <Hirundo> A few basic tests may be nice, to make sure that it doesn't crash right away
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22:01:26  <Hirundo> I'll look at it tomorrow afternoon (=morning for you?)
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22:01:48  <PeterT> Hirundo: yep
22:02:13  <Hirundo> I don't really care about versioning, but it may be necessary for correct MP compatibility
22:02:42  <Hirundo> But 2.1.2 sounds logical
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23:14:46  <Terkhen> good night
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