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Log for #openttd on 9th July 2010:
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08:20:46  <Wolf01> 'morning
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09:04:43  <BCMM> i want to make a train leave its goods in a station and load ore - is this possible?
09:05:09  <BCMM> (without a no loading instruction, the goods get loaded again)
09:05:43  *** Zahl [~Zahl@g227041135.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
09:05:56  <planetmaker> BCMM, you need to refit the wagons for ore
09:06:27  <planetmaker> the wagons may or may not support that. In any case you cannot deliver one thing and pickup another without visiting a depot between
09:07:51  <BCMM> planetmaker: the train carries goods one way and ore the other, and has carriages for both
09:08:28  <BCMM> what i'm trying to do is drop off the goods at a station that doesn't accept them (for another train to collect)
09:08:56  <BCMM> this works fine, till i load ore at the same station and it picks up the goods again
09:09:08  <planetmaker> yeah. That's afaik not possible
09:09:08  <Wolf01> then don't use mixed trains, there's no cargodest now, trains pick up everything they can carry
09:09:23  <planetmaker> ^
09:09:31  <BCMM> is it possible to instruct it as to which specific cargos it can load at a station?
09:09:39  <BCMM> oh
09:09:52  <BCMM> thats a bit odd
09:10:18  <BCMM> i suppose i could make a second unload-only station, but that would be silly
09:10:30  <Alberth> no, cargo hops on the first train that accepts it
09:10:51  <Alberth> so making seperate stations is indeed the way to go
09:11:14  <Alberth> or run cargodest/dist
09:23:15  <peter1138> hmm, 16.7MB compressed to 82KB. that's a nice ratio :)
09:23:37  <peter1138> admittedly well over 80% of that is zeros
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09:25:24  <Wolf01> buon giorno __ln__
09:30:11  <__ln__> buongiorno Wolf01
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10:06:18  <Celestar> BOOM
10:06:35  <Alberth> he  hello!
10:06:55  <Celestar> :)
10:07:17  <Rubidium> do I need to go to the optician?
10:09:03  <Rubidium> nope... he's still there
10:09:08  <Rubidium> so... hello Celestar!
10:09:12  <Rubidium> how was space? :)
10:09:17  <Celestar> :)
10:09:21  <Celestar> far away :(
10:09:32  <kamil> hi:)
10:09:56  <planetmaker> :-O
10:10:11  <planetmaker> a celestial star is back!
10:10:17  <Celestar> yeah
10:10:22  <Celestar> how's life everyone?
10:10:32  <planetmaker> too warm
10:10:50  <Alberth> we have not  finished openttd yet
10:11:05  <Rubidium> too many bugs
10:11:32  <planetmaker> yeah... still not finished :-(
10:11:46  <andythenorth> people keep asking for new features :P
10:11:47  <Celestar> lol
10:11:48  <kamil> how create in ap+ goals? exists scripts? patch?
10:11:50  <Celestar> like ...
10:11:51  <Celestar> erm..
10:11:55  <Celestar> cargodest? :P
10:12:07  <Wolf01> :O Celestar
10:12:07  * Alberth would like that
10:12:09  <Rubidium> no... they now want cargodost
10:12:18  <Celestar> wtf is cargodust?
10:12:22  <Rubidium> and it won't be long before it's cargodust :)
10:12:49  <planetmaker> :-D
10:12:56  <Alberth> kamil: goals?  hack the openttd program
10:12:59  <planetmaker> kamil, no such thing exists
10:13:07  <kamil> yhm...
10:13:19  <Celestar> well.
10:13:34  <Celestar> I'm first trying to compile the source again
10:13:40  <Celestar> don't recognize most of it any more :P
10:13:50  <planetmaker> did it change that much?
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10:13:58  <Rubidium> Celestar: nah... just a full blown GUI rewrite
10:14:11  <Alberth> planetmaker: nah, if you ignore the gui parts
10:14:30  <Celestar> I've been spending most of my time coding s-lang recently :P
10:14:37  <Celestar> somewhat different to C++
10:15:32  <planetmaker> Alberth, yes, my point :-)
10:16:15  <Alberth> planetmaker: yeah, we need a new game concept :)
10:16:24  <planetmaker> :-)
10:16:38  <planetmaker> well... *ideas* are nothing which we lack, do we? :-)
10:16:53  <Celestar> lol
10:17:07  <planetmaker> Celestar, new Objects! :-)
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10:17:09  <Alberth> some sort of coherent idea are much less around
10:17:14  <planetmaker> yeah
10:17:38  <Alberth> let alone one with an implementation path/strategy :)
10:17:45  <planetmaker> I guess one of the general ideas to come are like *some* kind of goal / scenario scripting framework
10:17:54  <planetmaker> but what you said :-)
10:18:27  <Alberth> nah, kamil will write a patch for that :D
10:18:34  <planetmaker> and then... newgrf-ing the remaining things. Like bridges and ground tiles :-)
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10:18:56  <planetmaker> which would allow *somehow* to have multi-climates or so
10:19:23  <planetmaker> which leads to another point: a bit of re-vamp of the terrain generator. Including rivers. Maybe also flowing rivers ingame...
10:19:24  <planetmaker> oh well
10:19:34  <planetmaker> ideas, ideas. Without concepts :-)
10:19:41  <Celestar> well.
10:19:48  <Celestar> the cargodist concept still exists :P
10:20:00  <Celestar> I'd just have to bump it around ... 8000 revisions :D
10:20:02  <Alberth> yes, you have a competitor :)
10:20:09  <Wolf01> flowing rivers exists too
10:20:15  <planetmaker> Wolf01, not really
10:20:19  <planetmaker> they never did
10:20:21  <planetmaker> ingame
10:20:40  <Wolf01> http://sites.google.com/site/boekabart/sealevel
10:21:34  <planetmaker> Celestar, or road types! :-)
10:21:37  <planetmaker> or whatever :-)
10:21:40  <Celestar> lol
10:21:45  * Celestar goes learning git :P
10:21:47  <planetmaker> well. We have rail types
10:22:08  <planetmaker> use hg :-)
10:22:12  <Celestar> or that.
10:22:13  <planetmaker> Easier and same functionality
10:22:38  <Celestar> do we still have those nice map-bit graphics somewhere?
10:22:44  <planetmaker> and you have the VCS for most (all?) public newgrf repos ;-)
10:23:05  <planetmaker> map bit graphics?
10:23:21  <Celestar> yeah. which bit it used there :P
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10:24:21  * planetmaker has no idea what you refer to
10:24:42  <Celestar> hm.
10:24:49  <Celestar> the cargodest branch is still there :P
10:25:14  <Alberth> sure, VCSes are very good in keeping things around :)
10:25:32  <Celestar> yeah :P
10:26:29  <Celestar> too good, at times
10:26:48  <Eddi|zuHause> ... i think my eyes are deceiving me...
10:27:53  <Eddi|zuHause> <Celestar> do we still have those nice map-bit graphics somewhere? <-- you mean docs/landscape_grid.html?
10:28:30  <Celestar> yeah
10:28:32  <Celestar> :)
10:28:33  <Celestar> hi
10:28:41  <planetmaker> oh. THOSE :-)
10:29:00  <planetmaker> I didn't consider those graphics really ;-)
10:29:49  <Sacro> zomg Celestar ^_^
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10:30:22  <Celestar> sacro :)
10:34:50  <Celestar> where does one get the open[GS]fx stuff for devving?
10:35:19  <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org
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10:36:12  <Celestar> ta
10:36:26  <planetmaker> you can download tar balls and compiled zips from http://bundles.openttdcoop.org
10:36:30  <Rubidium> ooh... Celestar wants to develop opengfx and opensfx? That's good news :)
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10:36:46  <planetmaker> mercurial checkouts are mentioned on the first link
10:37:08  * planetmaker wonders what Celestar plans to add :-)
10:37:44  <Celestar> not sure :P
10:38:10  <Celestar> and you get this stuff right into ~/.openttd ?
10:38:17  <planetmaker> uh.... no
10:38:24  <planetmaker> ~/.openttd/data
10:38:45  <planetmaker> but... if you have openttd running, you can download it via online content ;-)
10:38:52  <Celestar> well I don't :P
10:38:57  <planetmaker> and if you have the mercurial checkout, just use make install ;-)
10:39:04  <Celestar> oh right
10:39:08  <planetmaker> or the tar ball. Works the same
10:39:44  <Alberth> no need to unpack .tar files
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10:39:57  <planetmaker> nope. But source tars: yes ;-)
10:40:34  <Celestar> :)
10:40:47  <Alberth> yeah, openttd, the automatic build system for grfs did not quite make it :p
10:42:14  <planetmaker> eh, Alberth ?
10:42:27  <planetmaker> oh, you mean this silly proposal recently? :-)
10:42:31  <Celestar> lol
10:43:05  * planetmaker still likes the available newgrf developer tools, though :-)
10:43:24  <planetmaker> IMHO the biggest improvement :-)
10:43:45  <planetmaker> or say: long missed :-)
10:43:46  <Alberth> yeah, that proposal :)     http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=49046&hilit=nml
10:44:17  <planetmaker> ha, yeah :-)
10:44:25  <planetmaker> ho. Celestar won't know about NML either ;-)
10:44:48  <planetmaker> or about the death of TTDPatch ;-)
10:45:06  <Celestar> I read about TTDPatch
10:45:10  <Celestar> but what about NML?
10:45:21  <Rubidium> what? TTDPatch is dead?
10:45:22  <planetmaker> newgrf meta language
10:45:26  <Celestar> aha?
10:45:32  <Alberth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml
10:45:36  <planetmaker> ^
10:46:09  <Alberth> high level newgrf language for easier specifcation
10:46:32  <Alberth> *specification
10:47:33  <blathijs> ey Celestar :-D
10:47:46  <Celestar> BLAAAATH :)
10:47:52  <Celestar> hm. DBSetXL not in the list?
10:47:55  <planetmaker> Celestar, http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swedishrails/repository/entry/src/railtypes.pnml <-- typical NML code :-)
10:48:07  <planetmaker> Celestar, nope. mb is himself. As usual
10:48:25  <Celestar> that looks ... readable O_o
10:48:29  * andythenorth wonders why there are only a few bytes in that nml code :(
10:48:47  <blathijs> Celestar: Didn't you run Debian? If so you can just install openttd-opengfx / openttd-opensfx now :-)
10:48:49  <Celestar> so we have a NML compiler?
10:48:55  <planetmaker> yes
10:48:56  <andythenorth> where are all my friends C1 00, 04 80, etc?
10:48:56  <Celestar> running ubuntu atm
10:49:02  <Celestar> lol
10:49:07  <planetmaker> still not finished entirely, though
10:49:13  <planetmaker> andythenorth, where do you need those bytes?
10:49:16  <blathijs> I think Ubuntu lucid has them as well :-)
10:49:37  <planetmaker> switch(FEAT_RAILTYPES, SELF, left_level_crossing_terrain_switch, terrain_type) { <-- they're there, andythenorth
10:49:38  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I don't need them, but they are like old friends
10:49:43  <planetmaker> haha :-)
10:52:37  <Eddi|zuHause> * andythenorth wonders why there are only a few bytes in that nml code :( <-- every character is a byte ;) (sometimes even more than one)
10:52:47  <Celestar> well it works :D
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10:54:14  <Alberth> andythenorth: perhaps we should add 'act_08' as an alternative keyword for 'grfid' ?
10:54:30  <planetmaker> Alberth, not really
10:54:36  <planetmaker> grfid is only 4 bytes of action8
10:54:41  <planetmaker> rather then of grf
10:54:42  <andythenorth> if we wrote nml in hex, wouldn't it be...faster :P
10:55:10  <Alberth> definitely not for me, as I have just demonstrated :p
10:55:17  <planetmaker> :-)
10:55:20  <planetmaker> for me neither
10:55:47  <planetmaker> Those action2 sequences in NML are nicely recognizable and understandable
10:55:51  <planetmaker> even without documentation
10:56:16  <Alberth> now if only I knew when to use them :p
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10:56:48  <planetmaker> :-) Alberth have the graphics block in an action0 reference a switch block instead of a spriteblock
10:56:52  <planetmaker> that's all
10:57:30  <planetmaker> s/action0/item declaration/
10:58:00  <planetmaker> you need to read backwards the file which I linked
10:58:09  <planetmaker> start at the bottom
10:58:32  <Alberth> hmm, shouldn't we define nml upside down instead?
10:58:59  <planetmaker> well. yes and no
10:59:09  <planetmaker> in C you also first define the things which you later reference
10:59:24  <planetmaker> so... you read any programming code usually also backward :-)
10:59:38  <planetmaker> starting from main, working up the sub-routines as they're called
10:59:58  <planetmaker> well. Not any. But many ;-)
11:00:09  <Alberth> in the language I developed at work, there is no order of declarations :)
11:00:14  <planetmaker> :-)
11:00:25  <Alberth> ie the compiler shuffles them in a usable order
11:00:27  <Eddi|zuHause> in C you have forward declarations to solve that
11:00:51  <Alberth> usually #include s
11:00:59  <planetmaker> may that be all as it is. IMHO it's not that important to allow also a different order. At least not before 0.1 :-)
11:01:31  * Alberth agrees
11:01:43  <planetmaker> allowing an arbitrary order doesn't break anything either, so, it's save for 1.0 to have that only ;-)
11:02:09  <Alberth> he, no 0.2 ... 0.7 ?
11:02:32  <Alberth> :)
11:03:12  <Alberth> I don't really see much I can do with nml, atm
11:03:23  <Alberth> s/do/dev/
11:03:27  <planetmaker> hm. We still need many action0 definitions
11:03:40  <planetmaker> But there one needs to know how they're used
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11:04:48  <planetmaker> Alberth, if you feel like working on NML: allow it to back-translate grf2nml ;-)
11:06:09  <Alberth> the general infra structure is doable, but after that ....       Bah, I really need to practice newgrfs first
11:06:57  <planetmaker> hm...
11:07:45  <Alberth> are layouts possible already (of industries / airports) ?
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11:08:00  * Alberth wants to code an airport
11:08:20  <Alberth> but most likely not today
11:09:03  <andythenorth> ooh
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11:11:00  * Celestar tries to find the old cargodest code
11:13:03  <Eddi|zuHause> are you sure that reviving that is a good idea?
11:13:21  <Celestar> no
11:13:22  <Celestar>  :P
11:13:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, there's cargodist, which is way further advanced, but needs trunkifying...
11:14:48  <Celestar> I dunno what cargodist does meanwhile
11:15:15  <Rubidium> spawn threads
11:15:29  <Celestar> lol
11:15:37  <Celestar> it's treaded?
11:15:40  <Celestar> threaded*
11:15:43  <Rubidium> yes
11:15:50  <Celestar> and network safe? :P
11:16:21  <Rubidium> that remains to be proven
11:16:37  <Rubidium> I seem to remember quite a few instances of desync issues
11:16:45  <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen promised that it was designed with multiplayer in mind, and so far i can tell, he fixed "almost" all desync issues, and i believe none of them had to do with threading
11:17:27  <planetmaker> <Alberth> are layouts possible already (of industries / airports) ? <-- I don't quite know
11:17:36  <Celestar> well
11:17:38  <Celestar> where is he_
11:17:50  <Eddi|zuHause> @seen fonsinchen
11:17:50  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: fonsinchen was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 21 hours, 11 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <fonsinchen> I can make those numbers white ...
11:18:32  <Celestar> heh.
11:18:33  * andythenorth thinks that new airports will be awesome
11:18:36  <Celestar> he's working on it?
11:19:11  <planetmaker> whom on what?
11:19:17  <Celestar> fons on cargodist
11:19:35  <planetmaker> well, yes, IIRC she still works on it :-)
11:19:48  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I seem to remember some optimsation patches of him that actually decreased performance in the "normal" case but were well tested and that he did do profiling, so I'm talking his words with a few grains of salt
11:19:50  <planetmaker> though I haven't seen much activity lately. But it comes and goes in waves
11:20:09  <Celestar> any source anywhere?
11:20:15  <Rubidium> fickfoo?
11:20:16  <planetmaker> yes
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11:20:21  <planetmaker> no. github now
11:20:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no, he changed that recently ;)
11:20:27  <planetmaker> or something
11:20:45  <planetmaker> the cargodist thread will know
11:21:01  <Sacro> planetmaker: she?
11:21:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: i have seen no evidence that suggest that fonso is a girl ;)
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11:22:34  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: "13:21 < Sacro> planetmaker: she" <- there's your evidence
11:22:51  <Eddi|zuHause> yay for misquotations ;)
11:23:18  <Celestar> will check it :P
11:23:23  <Rubidium> oh... I should've done:
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11:23:27  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: "13:21 < Sacro> planetmaker: she [...]" <- there's your evidence
11:24:12  <planetmaker> :-)
11:25:45  <Eddi|zuHause> random quote of the day, that doesn't have anything to do with the conversation: (or short: rqotdtdnhatdwtc) "<VH> wird ja dann nen Wanderpokal weil der immer im Wohnwagen unterwegs ist :)"
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11:31:47  <Morloth_> Evening everyone :)
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11:55:09  <Celestar> hm.
11:55:17  <Celestar> what does cargodist do? :P
11:59:59  <Alberth> imo too much
12:02:16  <Eddi|zuHause> it solves a network flow problem
12:02:20  <Eddi|zuHause> and then some ;)
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12:04:46  <Celestar> haha
12:04:55  <Celestar> there's the one :)
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12:14:36  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20097 /trunk/src/ (rail_cmd.cpp road_cmd.cpp slope_type.h): -Codechange: Share constant bitset of safe level crossing slopes.
12:15:25  <TrueBrain> huh? A Celestar? Here? Wtf?
12:15:32  * TrueBrain hugs Celestar
12:15:44  <Morloth_> TrueBrain!!! You're alive! :D
12:15:51  <TrueBrain> NO!
12:15:56  <TrueBrain> too fucking hot to be considered alive
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12:16:05  <Alberth> he is usually buried in the dunes
12:16:14  <TrueBrain> hihi
12:16:23  <Morloth_> You should come over here, it's nice and rainy in glasgow ;)
12:16:36  <TrueBrain> if you pay for the flight, SURE!
12:16:40  <glx> lucky Morloth_
12:16:49  <Alberth> obviously, by the time we are there, the rain has gone :)
12:17:03  <Celestar> TRUEBRAIN :D
12:17:10  <Morloth_> uh huh, funny guy. I can offer you a home cooked meal though ;)
12:17:18  <TrueBrain> your meals?
12:17:21  <TrueBrain> I rather eat junkfood
12:17:35  <Celestar> always the same, he is :)
12:17:36  <TrueBrain> what makes Celestar join this channel? :)
12:17:39  <Celestar> dunno
12:17:43  <glx> time maybe
12:17:46  <Celestar> thinking about the past :P
12:17:53  <TrueBrain> ah, you are getting old
12:17:59  <Celestar> as are you :D
12:18:04  <TrueBrain> very true :)
12:18:34  <Celestar> so I thought about hitting openttd a bit again
12:18:53  <Celestar> trying to understand the source for example :P
12:19:01  <TrueBrain> you have a lot of catching up to do ;)
12:19:17  <Celestar> I figured :P
12:19:51  <TrueBrain> you are smart! :p
12:22:16  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: nah... he should've come here a month earlier... then you might've hugged him IRL
12:22:25  <TrueBrain> true true true true
12:22:27  <TrueBrain> his loss :p
12:22:51  <Celestar> lol
12:22:56  <Celestar> hides*
12:23:00  <Eddi|zuHause> don't mention The Party to outsiders! :p
12:23:27  <Celestar> I know about The Party :(
12:23:30  <Celestar> fucking missed it
12:23:58  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: when did it become a Fight Club?
12:24:01  <TrueBrain> did I miss something?
12:24:03  <TrueBrain> did we leave too early? :p
12:24:14  <Eddi|zuHause> :)
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12:27:58  <Morloth_> Any of you going to Edinburgh for the meeting?
12:29:08  <TrueBrain> a deap silence came over #openttd
12:29:56  * TrueBrain hugs Morloth_
12:30:00  <TrueBrain> that was not nice of me :p
12:30:16  <Rubidium> that happens when you ask an unanswerable question
12:33:17  <Wolf01> is a 1.0.3 coming?
12:33:27  <Spoons> Yes.
12:33:40  <Wolf01> I just noticed the commits
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12:45:32  <Morloth_> bastard ;)
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12:46:14  <Sacro> heh, arch just gave me 1.0.2
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12:46:20  <Morloth_> anyone seen Yexo around lately?
12:46:30  <planetmaker> yes
12:46:46  <Rubidium> Morloth_: a few days ago... saying he was going on vacation for a couple of weeks
12:46:49  <planetmaker> it wouldn't matter if he ate more :-P
12:46:57  <Morloth_> ah, ok thanks.
12:47:08  <planetmaker> oh, a couple of weeks? :-)
12:47:44  <Morloth_> Would it be all right if I create a patch for http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3934 ? Really want this bug fixed :X
12:49:10  <planetmaker> creating patches is always welcom
12:49:11  <planetmaker> e
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12:49:48  <Wolf01> s/patches/bugfix patches
12:49:57  <planetmaker> :-)
12:50:02  <planetmaker> especially those, yes
12:52:07  <Morloth_> At the moment NoCAB is creating entire rainforrests because the town rating is returned incorrectly. It's quite funny to see :P
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12:54:40  <planetmaker> :-)
12:54:50  <planetmaker> No-Greenpeace-Cab?
12:57:11  <Celestar> erm.
12:57:38  <planetmaker> wer e sagt muß auch f sagen. Oder so ;-)
12:57:40  <TrueBrain> yes dear?
12:58:03  <Rubidium> okay planeftmakefr
12:58:11  <planetmaker> :-)
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12:58:37  <Rubidium> doefs it work thef othefr way around as wefll?
12:59:19  <planeftmakefr> feor efxamplef likef this sefntefncef?
12:59:29  <planeftmakefr> sefefms likef
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13:01:07  <Rubidium> yefs planefefmakefefr
13:01:33  <TrueBrain> or we can 'start talking like thi's again. I alway's loved that too :)
13:02:35  <glx> I need to reenable my script for that
13:02:49  <Rubidium> yef's that i's a good idefa TruefBrain
13:03:33  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I am alway's full of tho'se :)
13:03:43  <TrueBrain> glx: did you know that it i's not that hard to just type it your'self?
13:03:51  <TrueBrain> it goe's without much effort to do 'so
13:04:22  <TrueBrain> anyway, it i's hot out'side, I am going to enjoy that now :) Bye :)
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13:04:58  <glx> for me it i's hard :)
13:06:15  <Celestar> why is the content download window empty?
13:06:16  <Celestar>  :P
13:07:07  <Kogut> firewall?
13:07:54  <Noldo_> Celestar sounds awfully much like a newbie :P
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13:10:14  <Celestar> lol
13:10:17  <Celestar> I am :)
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13:13:54  <Belugas> hello
13:14:02  <Alberth> hai Belugas
13:14:12  <Rubidium> ohai Belugas!
13:14:25  <Belugas> sir Alberth :D, sur Rubidium :D
13:14:32  <Belugas> ho... sir Celestar!
13:14:43  <Celestar> :)
13:14:47  <Celestar> Lord Belugas
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13:27:20  * andythenorth wants a funny name
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13:38:04  <Rubidium> hmm... stupid forums where you need to register to search...
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13:41:12  <Celestar> hm.
13:41:16  <Celestar> hugeass thing this cargodist
13:41:49  <Terkhen> hello
13:41:59  <Alberth> hai Terkhen
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13:51:26  <planetmaker> <Celestar> hugeass thing this cargodist <-- I recall that cargodEst wasn't really a 10-line patch either ;-)
13:51:34  <planetmaker> moin Terkhen
13:52:24  <Rubidium> planetmaker: but not nearing like halve a MiB
13:52:44  <Rubidium> more some low-ish 1xx KiB
13:52:47  <planetmaker> not? Throw in boost dependency and you're well above that
13:52:58  <Celestar> planetmaker: it wasn't??
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13:53:36  <Celestar> well
13:53:56  <Celestar> if you count libc, sdl, .... then the openttd code is rather huge :P
13:54:16  <peter1138> celestar!!!!!! :D
13:54:22  <Celestar> peeeeeeeeeeeeeter
13:54:37  <peter1138> oh gosh, you're actually looking at the old cargodest stuff
13:54:40  <planetmaker> yes. But in honour(?) of cargodIst vs. cargodEst: cargodest used external graph routines. While cargodist seems to have self-written stuff for that
13:54:40  <peter1138> scary D:
13:55:32  <Celestar> peter1138: well, I'm trying to find out wtf I did :P
13:56:06  <Rubidium> Celestar: all peanuts if when you consider the hugeness of icu
13:56:36  <Celestar> possibly yes :D
13:56:38  <peter1138> hmm, 224KB for the patch
13:56:46  <glx> Celestar: have fun with GUI changes ;)
13:57:01  <peter1138> though a lot of it was gui work
13:58:45  <Rubidium> did cargodest include zooming in?
13:59:08  <peter1138> uh
13:59:16  <Celestar> no it didn't
13:59:18  <peter1138> that doesn't sound like a cargodest feature
13:59:20  <Rubidium> like cargodist does
13:59:26  <peter1138> ...
13:59:57  <planetmaker> well. The zoom wrt the link graphs is quite sensible
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14:00:17  <planetmaker> otherwise it becomes nearly impossible to tell the links of a metropolitan area
14:01:29  <Celestar> Cargodest just included ... er ... commets >P
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14:01:48  <Celestar> comments even
14:04:30  <peter1138> yeah, there were quite a few
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14:14:29  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20098 /trunk/src/ (train.h train_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Fix [FS#3898]: A train reversing in a station would sometimes fail to release its reserved path.
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14:19:37  <Sacro1> hmm, should i get the offer to purchase another company when I don't have the cash to afford it?
14:20:06  <peter1138> you might be able to flog some stuff off or take out a bigger loan
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14:20:29  <TrueBrain> # JUST DANCE!!
14:22:53  <TrueBrain> # Wonderful days, belong to the best. I don't know where I have been, what to do
14:23:06  <TrueBrain> who is old enough to know that song? :)
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14:24:49  <Celestar> oops
14:25:03  <TrueBrain> that is what she said
14:25:33  <peter1138> i'm probably old enough but i'm not into happy hardcore
14:26:00  <peter1138> (which is what the internets come up with)
14:26:31  <TrueBrain> so you cheated, tsss
14:26:40  <Spoons> TrueBrain's gonna be okay.
14:30:02  <TrueBrain> Spoons: really? Cool!
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16:41:55  <PeterT> omg a Celestar
16:42:13  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20099 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3882]: Give priority to ownership errors while removing roads.
16:43:11  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20100 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Give priority to ownership errors while removing rails.
16:44:35  <Rubidium> yay... progress: 1%
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16:47:20  <Rubidium> TrueBrain... oh Lord of the copy'n'pastebin... paste.openttd.org is timing out
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17:20:59  <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> who is old enough to know that song? :) <-- apparently i am... but in my version they say "I don't know where i stand, what i'm to do"
17:26:56  <Eddi|zuHause> "Charly Lownoise and Mental Theo"... i haven't heard these names in ages...
17:27:09  <Eddi|zuHause> *hach* back when i was young...
17:30:08  <welshdragon> damn
17:30:53  <welshdragon> i wish you could build railway bridges over stations...
17:32:10  <Eddi|zuHause> multi-level stations (*dream*)
17:32:42  <Eddi|zuHause> currently, you can't model Berlin Hbf
17:32:43  <Rubidium> welshdragon: get your trowel, some cement and bricks and start building...
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17:33:44  <welshdragon> Rubidium: haha
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17:45:30  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r20101 /trunk/src/lang/ (estonian.txt polish.txt portuguese.txt romanian.txt):
17:45:30  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:30  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: estonian - 16 changes by Jaanus
17:45:30  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: polish - 3 changes by xine
17:45:30  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: portuguese - 6 changes by ABCRic, JayCity
17:45:31  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: romanian - 2 changes by kkmic
17:48:04  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20102 /trunk/src/music/dmusic.cpp: -Fix: OpenMSX music sounds odd after certain songs are played. Likely because the instruments weren't reset properly
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18:46:04  <Alberth> did you make up your mind?
18:50:05  <Eddi|zuHause> what mind? :p
18:50:13  <planetmaker> :-D
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18:57:16  <Pikel> how do I build a trainstation when the nearby town won't let me?
18:58:05  * andythenorth is pondering what factors should affect secondary industry closure
18:58:08  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ^^
18:58:17  <Alberth> bribe them, wait, or build trees
18:58:27  * andythenorth finds the whole question of closure remarkably dull, but it has to be sorted out :P
18:58:51  <Eddi|zuHause> IMHO, serviced secondary industries should never close
18:59:13  <andythenorth> serviced: recently?  within n years?  ever?
18:59:19  <Alberth> Pikel: my answer was for you :)
18:59:38  <planetmaker> andythenorth: at least a year
18:59:43  <Eddi|zuHause> "within 1 year"?
19:00:08  *** Pikel is now known as Chris[A]
19:00:16  <Eddi|zuHause> after that year, treat it like an unserviced industry
19:00:23  <andythenorth> sounds plausible
19:00:40  <andythenorth> I'm going to play with closure disabled, so this decision will get made by those who turn up :)
19:00:40  <Chris[A]> sorry, had to reattach my irssi session, was wonky
19:00:53  <andythenorth> I'm not going to play test closure very much :o
19:00:56  <Alberth> Chris[A]: Alberth: bribe them, wait, or build trees
19:01:25  <Chris[A]> can you bribe them?
19:01:27  <Alberth> in general, first build the stations, then do terraforming :)
19:01:40  <Alberth> if you enabled it in the settings
19:01:50  <Chris[A]> interesting.....
19:02:06  <Alberth> not really imho, but ok
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19:03:18  <Eddi|zuHause> "In a March report that was not questioned by federal officials, BP said it had the capacity to skim and remove 491,721 barrels of oil each day in the event of a major spill." --- "In the 77 days since [the oil spill, s]kimming has captured only 67,143 barrels, and BP has relied on burning to remove 238,095 barrels."
19:03:43  <andythenorth> frosch123: if I return 04 80 to the production change cb....will that use the built-in closure conditions?
19:03:56  <andythenorth> (for both steady and fluctuating economies)
19:05:09  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: don't worry, we will have lots of court cases and public investigations aftewards :p
19:05:51  <frosch123> andythenorth: newgrfs always use non-smooth economy if any of the production change callbacks is enabled
19:06:23  <frosch123> and iirc the "default production change" means "default change of primary industries"
19:06:24  <andythenorth> I would just trust the wiki, but seems every time we look at this, we find...strange things....in the production code :P
19:06:40  <andythenorth> I would rather avoid writing any closure code for secondary industry
19:06:47  <andythenorth> as I basically don't care about ti
19:06:49  <andythenorth> it /s
19:06:50  <andythenorth> :)
19:07:13  <Eddi|zuHause> "smooth economy" [advanced setting] and "steady economy" [difficulty setting] are two separate things...
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19:18:26  <Chris[A]> when you have a bunch of people witing for the train ... ar they satisfied to just go to the next town or do they have a specific location in mind (i.e. I need to hit every town?)
19:18:34  *** Chris[A] is now known as Pikel
19:18:50  <Alberth> Pikel: they go wherever you bring them
19:18:55  <Pikel> gotcha
19:19:15  <Alberth> and they are not afraid to catch the same train again
19:19:28  <Pikel> ok
19:19:37  <Pikel> is there a limit to the # of trains in motion?
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19:20:16  <Alberth> CPU, your max #trains/trucks/etc, or 65536 vehicles, or so
19:20:59  <Pikel> ok, I haven't reached that # yet, but I can't buy any more engins (but I can cars)
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19:25:04  <planetmaker> might actually be 1536 vehicles less. Dunno :-)
19:25:44  <planetmaker> Pikel: 3000 trains and your CPU will surely reach about its limits :-)
19:26:02  <Pikel> still ... I have like 8 engines and *maybe* 25-30 cars total (no other vehicle types in play currently)
19:26:53  <planetmaker> well... add a factor of 100 and the map may start to look full :-)
19:26:56  <Eddi|zuHause> 8 is usually not the limit...
19:27:13  <planetmaker> but alone that may take quite a long time to build such a huge network
19:27:20  <Eddi|zuHause> unless you changed the setting
19:27:34  <Pikel> map has been in motion for 98 years now
19:27:36  <planetmaker>  !rcon set max_trains 5
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19:27:51  <planetmaker> hmpf
19:28:07  <Eddi|zuHause> looka like the script works as intended ;)
19:28:08  <planetmaker>  and I specifically added a leading " " so that it is not a command :-(
19:28:14  <planetmaker> nope
19:28:31  <planetmaker> it should not kick on a disabled command ;-)
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19:29:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikel: you mean your engine models got old and can't be bought anymore? you should change railtypes then
19:29:21  <planetmaker> glx: your kick is to vigorous :-) it should only kick on !somecommand in the beginning of the lines ;-)
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19:30:06  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you could have said the same with full sentences
19:30:27  <glx> planetmaker: it checks only the first word
19:30:42  <planetmaker> glx: yes. But it's not a valid command, if preceeded by space ;-)
19:30:56  <glx> spaces are ignored
19:30:58  <planetmaker> it's our usual way to show a command: add leading space and it's displayed, not executed
19:31:18  <planetmaker> hm... I err
19:31:21  <planetmaker> ok :-P
19:31:37  <planetmaker> I take back my complaint :-)
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19:34:00  <Pikel> ok it's engines trains and 36 cars yet I can't build any more engines :/
19:35:18  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikel: click and hold the rail icon in the main toolbar, then switch to monorail or maglev
19:35:58  <Pikel> ahh ok
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19:43:22  <planetmaker> Sacro, you should fix your connection
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19:47:29  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro_ as well
19:48:34  <andythenorth> anyone fancy testing FIRS secondary closure?  I don't fancy sitting here watching a game on FF
19:48:43  <Sacro_> ?
19:49:16  <andythenorth> I've just committed code that disables / enables secondary industry closing with a parameter
19:49:41  <andythenorth> needs testing, I can't be bothered
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19:49:52  <andythenorth> I did a weekend of this once before :P
19:50:15  <andythenorth> Terkhen: you had a way of running automated tests?
19:50:19  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r20103 /trunk/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.txt src/ai/api/ai_town.cpp): -Fix [FS#3934]: AITown::GetRating() returned wrong values. (Morloth)
19:50:58  <Morloth> Thanks frosch123 :D
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20:35:58  * andythenorth watches a game on FF for industry closure.
20:36:02  <andythenorth> sooooooooo boring
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20:39:05  <Wolf01> ask the devs to create a debug feature to force an industry to close
20:40:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that's not what he tests
20:41:39  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I'm only testing for default closure behaviour at the moment.  I want to know it's turned *off*
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20:48:48  <Wolf01> 'nnniiiiiight (yawn)
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20:50:51  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20104 /trunk/src/music/win32_m.cpp: -Fix: [Win32] The win32 MIDI driver might clip the start of a song.
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22:25:38  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20105 /trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
22:25:38  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Revert (r20102) [FS#3938]: resetting DirectMusic completely, although working,
22:25:38  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: causes a temporary freeze of OpenTTD. As MCI behaves better than DirectMusic
22:25:38  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: that has become the default music driver; small delay between songs beats
22:25:38  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: wrongly pitched/bad sounding songs
22:27:44  <Eddi|zuHause> DirectMusic gets phased out?
22:28:10  <Rubidium> undefaulted
22:28:14  <Rubidium> as it's just crappy
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22:28:56  <Eddi|zuHause> does that mean people don't need ages old SDKs anymore?
22:29:07  <Rubidium> no
22:30:05  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-74-136.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:30:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand this answer...
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22:31:08  <Rubidium> then you've asked the question incorrectly
22:31:57  <Eddi|zuHause> then, please answer the question i should have asked ;)
22:32:18  <Eddi|zuHause> (and include the correct question in that answer)
22:32:18  <Rubidium> yes
22:32:43  <Rubidium> do people still next DXSDK7?
22:33:36  <ccfreak2k> I concur with Rubidium.
22:33:49  <ccfreak2k> Your use of a negative in your question left the interpretation of the answer ambiguous.
22:34:29  <frosch123> night
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22:34:37  <glx> maybe one day we'll totally drop DX ;)
22:35:00  <Eddi|zuHause> then the followup question is: why is it still needed?
22:35:12  <Rubidium> because MCI might not work properly
22:35:27  <Rubidium> after all... there *IS* a reason why dmusic was added
22:35:56  <Rubidium> I'm just not aware of it
22:36:22  <glx> IIRC on some system mci failed to play midi
22:36:39  <Rubidium> and having DXSDK7 keeps some of the compile "noobs" away
22:36:51  <glx> and that's a good point :)
22:36:53  <Eddi|zuHause> haha :)
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22:40:58  * Rubidium is getting annoyed about xz still not being stabilised
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