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Log for #openttd on 10th July 2010:
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06:54:08  <andythenorth> morning
07:01:10  <planetmaker> moin
07:03:07  <andythenorth> my industry closure code fails :(
07:14:05  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I have prevented secondary industry but re-enabling it with param 3 fails :)
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07:20:15  <planetmaker> hm
07:20:56  <andythenorth> could be a fail in my code, could be a fail in the game code, could be a fail in your code, could be a fail in my testing  9.9
07:21:08  <andythenorth> ho hum
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07:22:14  <Rubidium> andythenorth: could be a fail in the specs
07:22:27  <andythenorth> another potential source of fail yes :)
07:22:33  <andythenorth> or in my reading of the specs
07:23:04  <andythenorth> I have no reliable test environment
07:23:09  <andythenorth> I should probably solve that first
07:23:34  <andythenorth> how do I run the game from console, on FF, with industry closure stats piped to a log?
07:24:29  <Rubidium> not without adding code to log the industry closures
07:24:52  <andythenorth> Terkhen managed it somehow...
07:25:18  <andythenorth> could have been a patch...
07:25:52  <Rubidium> definitely
07:29:38  <frosch123> 21:06:23 < frosch123> and iirc the "default production change" means "default change of primary industries" <- that still holds
07:29:47  <andythenorth> this is interesting
07:30:11  <andythenorth> umm.  actually, no it's not
07:30:15  <andythenorth> mP
07:30:55  <frosch123> hmm, maybe i did not understand what you tried
07:31:25  <andythenorth> I forgot that I patched my openttd repo to have a 35 year industry protection period
07:31:40  <andythenorth> that makes my testing so far somewhat null  :|
07:31:53  <planetmaker> haha :-)
07:32:05  <Rubidium> so it's "a fail in my code"
07:32:17  <andythenorth> I was puzzled why industries that don't have the production change cb set weren't closing :o
07:32:19  <andythenorth> meh
07:32:36  <planetmaker> apropos fail and not fail, Rubidium:
07:32:43  <planetmaker> time for OpenMSX 1.0?
07:32:54  <planetmaker> or are there further changes likely?
07:33:24  * andythenorth wonders which is easier: write closure code for FIRS, or write instructions for players to patch the built in closure period :P
07:34:18  <frosch123> do you do closure in the random callback or in the monthly?
07:34:59  <andythenorth> monthly is the plan
07:35:01  <Rubidium> planetmaker: dunno... I'm not that into it :)
07:35:31  <frosch123> andythenorth: for monthly you have to fix it in firs :)
07:35:35  <planetmaker> :-) Let me guess.... the music patch will be back-ported, right?
07:35:44  <frosch123> for random cb i have some roadmap draft to balance it
07:36:38  <Rubidium> planetmaker: if there aren't any new bugs with it... yes
07:36:41  * frosch123 moans about maglev noobs
07:36:43  <andythenorth> frosch123: I'm going to disable closure by default...and hope someone else solves the case where closure is enabled :)
07:36:55  <Rubidium> planetmaker: ah nice... the stupid names are gone :)
07:37:08  <planetmaker> :-)
07:37:20  * Rubidium won't be only much for today though
07:38:22  <planetmaker> hm... I guess I should wait for the new stable then. Otherwise people will complain. More people will complain
07:38:34  <planetmaker> hm.. and I should add a not on this to the readme maybe
07:45:18  <andythenorth> frosch123: is the draft written down somewhere?
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07:51:46  <andythenorth> hmm
07:52:04  <andythenorth> frosch123: field tiles....will they support being built on water, or is that a step too far?
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08:05:59  <frosch123> the draft is written right in front of me on a piece of old paper
08:06:16  <frosch123> fieldtiles and tilechecks is an open issue
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08:12:54  <andythenorth> frosch123: field tiles on water would be of use for fishing grounds etc - as they would be navigable and so not block ship routes :)
08:13:33  <frosch123> hmm, ok, navigateable is quite different from current farmtiles
08:14:18  <andythenorth> navigable is different to over-buildable?
08:14:35  <frosch123> yes, as the ship has to enter an industry tile :)
08:14:42  <frosch123> might be possible though
08:14:58  <frosch123> i.e. the tile is not cleared when the ship enters it :p
08:15:49  <andythenorth> I see the issue
08:16:08  <andythenorth> if it's TMWFTLB scrub it
08:16:32  <andythenorth> we have the magic tile to prevent shipping routes being completely blocked
08:17:12  <Rubidium> frosch123: *or*... like clear land the tiles are "just" water tiles with some special graphics
08:17:56  <frosch123> using industry tiles has lots of benefits, including contact to the industry, animation, random bits, ...
08:18:31  <frosch123> i would rather not support watertiles for now, than drop that :)
08:19:15  <andythenorth> it it's too much work for them to be navigable, then dropping watertile support would make no sense
08:19:40  <andythenorth> if the main advantage of field tiles is they are over-buildable, that confers no benefit on water
08:21:00  <andythenorth> umm
08:21:11  <andythenorth>  dropping watertile support *would make sense*
08:21:21  <andythenorth> my bad
08:21:35  <andythenorth> :o
08:22:31  <frosch123> 	if (v->age < 65535) v->age++; <-someone forgot to remove that :p
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08:28:20  * Rubidium blames frosch123 for not noticing that a few years earlier
08:28:35  <Rubidium> where's wolf01 when you need him?
08:28:56  <frosch123> for blaming?
08:29:25  <Rubidium> well... for flaming some Italian that "we" just received an email from
08:30:40  <Rubidium> and I'd be interested in where he found the demo of OpenTTD and, as him, what the differences are between the demo and the stuff that he wants to purchase
08:32:34  <planetmaker> hm... should the gamelog list the same newgrf files being used as the newgrf dialogue?
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08:33:14  <fjb> Moin.
08:33:21  <planetmaker> moin fjb
08:33:26  <frosch123> planetmaker: depends on changes due to compatible files
08:33:50  <planetmaker> frosch123: assuming that the game log doesn't list any newgrf changes since tick 0
08:34:42  <frosch123> maybe it should then
08:34:59  <planetmaker> http://img.openttdcoop.org/images/screenaya.png
08:35:27  <planetmaker> or would the files differ when playing on a server?
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08:35:34  <planetmaker> or could at least?
08:35:53  <planetmaker> e.g. gamelog lists remote files with their path and name and newgrf gui the local ones?
08:36:07  <frosch123> the path is the path when the file was added
08:36:14  <frosch123> only the md5sum is important
08:36:52  <Rubidium> GRFID & MD5 checksum match the second (from bottom), so.. it's all fine
08:37:34  <planetmaker> well. yes... so... the path is basically pointless as it can change?
08:37:48  <planetmaker> e.g. when re-loading and moving files between loads?
08:37:55  <frosch123> it is needed if the file is not present, to have an idea what is missing
08:39:14  <planetmaker> hm, ok.
08:39:24  <planetmaker> I guess I can delete the industrw-010
08:39:31  <planetmaker> It definitely is not 0.1.0 then ;-)
08:41:01  <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/maxage.diff <- anyone knows, whether e->age has some special value?
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08:42:23  <frosch123> doesn't look like it, "never expire" is handled differently
08:55:21  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r20106 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp newgrf_engine.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Fix (r5999): Engine and vehicle age were clamped at 0xFFFF, though there are 32bit available.
08:55:24  * andythenorth afk for 24 hours
08:55:45  <frosch123> 10:55, i'll note that
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09:02:15  <frosch123> hello wolf :p
09:02:35  <Wolf01> oh, a frosch123 :D
09:02:59  <Wolf01> hello frosch123 :p
09:03:43  <Wolf01> I think I'll make another patch today
09:05:09  <Wolf01> drag&drop measurement tool with manhattan distance, diagonal measurement with any width/height of the rect
09:05:42  <Wolf01> and height difference between the tile_start and tile
09:06:35  <Wolf01> the main problem will be to draw the diagonal selection, it should be a step line
09:07:00  <Wolf01> I'll start browsing the road drag&drop code with measurement tool
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10:23:23  <frosch123> someone knows which ais build newgrf railstations?
10:23:48  <frosch123> hmm, i could just grep the bananas folder
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10:37:08  <fjb> I think AdmiralAI does.
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10:37:53  <frosch123> yeah, admiral and nocab only
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10:46:16  <frosch123> does admiral only builds cargo routes for trains?
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10:54:42  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r20107 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (5 files): -Add: [NoAI] AIIndustryType::INDUSTRYTYPE_TOWN and AIIndustryType::INDUSTRYTYPE_UNKNOWN for AIRail::BuildNewGRFRailStation(). Note that BuildNewGRFRailStation() now checks the passed industry type for validity.
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10:55:28  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r20108 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_generic.cpp newgrf_generic.h newgrf_spritegroup.h): -Change: [NewGRF] Report substitute industry type in AI railstation selection callback.
10:55:57  <frosch123> Morloth_: NoCAB does no longer build railstation. Looks like it passes the industry id instead of the industrytype to BuildNewGRFRailStation
10:57:49  <Terkhen> hello
10:58:15  <frosch123> moin terkhen :)
10:58:27  <Terkhen> andythenorth: my code was a hack to print info about all opened/closed industries, the patch must be somewhere in the FIRS development thread
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11:32:05  <Eddi|zuHause> # Von wegen Öl geht aus: die lÃŒgen doch, die Ölstaaten
11:32:06  <Eddi|zuHause> # Es gibt genug, wenn sogar Enten schon in Öl baden
11:38:16  <planetmaker> http://despair.com/ts-291.html <-- similar to that, Eddi|zuHause ? :-)
11:39:54  <Eddi|zuHause> this is from the song "Schöne Neue Welt" by "Culcha Candela"
11:40:34  <planetmaker> sounds pretty much like ndw ;-)
11:41:11  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a fairly new song
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11:46:01  <frosch123> interesting shop
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12:05:08  <Terkhen> andythenorth: i have updated the patch file and made it a bit easier to use (http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/patches/index.php?folder=log_industry_closure/); anyways I don't mind running the tests you need
12:06:35  <planetmaker> Terkhen: it basically needs testing whether the closure parameter works
12:07:02  <Terkhen> so... a few logs with parameter on/off will be enough?
12:07:04  <Alberth> andy is afk for 21h50m
12:07:15  <planetmaker> Terkhen: yes, most probably
12:07:22  <planetmaker> the parameter actually is a bit-set
12:07:40  <planetmaker> I'm not sure which bits are already used. Whether only primary closure or secondary or both
12:08:46  <Eddi|zuHause> ... only bytecode programmers can get up with exposing bitmasks to end-users
12:09:15  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: it's not directly exposed to the end-user
12:09:28  <Terkhen> are those bits documented?
12:09:38  <planetmaker> the end-user is told: set it to x when you want a), set it to y when you want b etc
12:09:54  <Eddi|zuHause> come on, it's not like you're running out of parameters any time soon...
12:10:48  <Eddi|zuHause> just look at the amount of people who don't understand the ECS parameters...
12:11:14  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: yes. But no point to have different parameters for primary / secondary closure
12:11:54  <planetmaker> Terkhen: parameter 2 (counting from 0)
12:12:20  <planetmaker>  // Bits for the Closure parameter (Bitset!)
12:12:22  <planetmaker> #define BIT_CLOSE_PRIMARY     \d00   // 0x01
12:12:23  <planetmaker> #define BIT_CLOSE_SECONDARY   \d01   // 0x02
12:12:25  <planetmaker> #define BIT_OPEN_NONE         \d02   // 0x04
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12:13:20  <planetmaker> but maybe you're right, Eddi|zuHause. Opening could be removed from that. Then it's clear
12:13:31  <Terkhen> hmm... confusing indeed
12:14:08  <planetmaker> 1 : never close primaries. 2:never close secondaries. 3=never close any. add 4 and no industries open
12:14:32  <planetmaker> the opening certainly is not yet supported
12:15:04  <planetmaker> hm. How many parameters does OpenTTD accept for a newgrf?
12:15:11  <Eddi|zuHause> 256 or so...
12:15:13  <planetmaker> really like 128?
12:15:32  <planetmaker> IIRC the other 128 are internally... but that might even be wrong
12:15:42  <Terkhen> okay, I'll get some logs for each combination after lunch
12:15:47  <planetmaker> :-)
12:16:44  <planetmaker> but okay... do you guys think that closing primary and secondary industries should be different user-parameters, too?
12:17:44  <planetmaker> Then I'll change that... because it's my doing... and I guess I could change that
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12:22:17  <Terkhen> if the different number combinations are explained in the readme, I think the current way is ok
12:26:20  <Eddi|zuHause> parameter descriptions should fit into the newgrf description, so they are accessible directly from the newgrf window
12:26:41  <Alberth> that is proposed already
12:27:20  <Alberth> just waiting for it to be accepted :)
12:27:40  <planetmaker> given the size of the newgrf description there's already MUCH more space than before
12:27:55  <planetmaker> Alberth: display of readme would be awesome
12:28:34  <Alberth> although as demo doing parameter options in a window for a few grfs would be *very* nice
12:28:37  <planetmaker> it's currently a bit hard to flame users for not reading the readme ;-)
12:29:33  <Eddi|zuHause> the readme should be part of the grf, then
12:29:51  <Alberth> nah, pack it in the tar
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12:30:08  <planetmaker> yes.
12:30:10  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: then how do you reliably show it within the game?
12:30:24  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: reading it from the tar is no problem, is there?
12:30:34  <Alberth> open a window with its contents?
12:30:35  <planetmaker> Most grfs are anyway shipped via bananas
12:31:04  <planetmaker> and... the Japanese ones ship all without readme :-(
12:31:36  <Ammler> just add a parameter to the grf, which needs a special "code" to enable
12:31:52  <Eddi|zuHause> a) currently users don't even find the tars, let alone know how to open them. and b) if you allow authors to freely choose the readme format, you run in trouble opening it from the game, if they use .html or even .doc formats...
12:31:53  <planetmaker> I don't see why the grfs need to deal with the readme.
12:31:54  <Ammler> and put that somewhere well hidden in the readme
12:32:12  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: the readme format is fixed: txt
12:32:47  <planetmaker> only pdf is allowed alternatively.
12:33:03  <planetmaker> But it's IMHO quite fine to limit the ingame readme display to supplied txt files with the name readme.txt
12:33:06  <Terkhen> opening readmes only from properly packaged NewGRFs is the only sane solution
12:33:11  <planetmaker> ^
12:34:22  <Ammler> or code the newgrf the way, it doesn't need a readme
12:34:32  <planetmaker> but basically everything is already there. It "just" needs an ingame interface
12:34:39  <planetmaker> Ammler: no gain from that at all
12:34:50  <planetmaker> any newgrf needs a readme. Or most
12:35:34  <planetmaker> if you want some description you'll need a readme for a newgrf
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12:36:09  <Ammler> yes, for info and credits, but it should work without
12:36:22  * Alberth ponders about adding a parameter description file too
12:36:23  <planetmaker> yes. without parameters and stuff. But that's not the point
12:36:32  <planetmaker> Alberth: the readme.txt should cover that
12:36:50  <planetmaker> It is actually in my eyes one of the primary points of the readme
12:37:01  * Alberth ponders a parameter description section bot human and machine readable for extracting parameter settngs
12:37:09  <Alberth> *both
12:37:21  <Eddi|zuHause> it would already be helpful if the bananas description would be also visible for downloaded grfs
12:37:52  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that's something else. But newgrfs can add a lot to their description. It's just a matter of doing it as one of the authors
12:38:02  <planetmaker> Alberth: that doesn't sound bad :-)
12:39:00  <planetmaker> though I'd consider that only the 2nd step :-) after having access to the readme ;-)
12:39:11  <planetmaker> e.g. one is necessary, the other nice
12:39:18  <planetmaker> as far as necessary and nice go
12:40:09  * Alberth has nice and necessary reversed w.r.t. pm :p
12:40:12  <planetmaker> because currently a newgrf author basically has no means to tell a user more than the ingame description. And a parameter description would not be the right place for everything, too
12:40:34  <planetmaker> Alberth: well... look at it this way: newgrf authors write currently their readme basically for the trash bin
12:40:50  <Alberth> yeah, I agree with you pm :)
12:41:34  <Ammler> use Action14 for parameters?
12:41:46  <planetmaker> all current readmes explain the parameters of the existing newgrfs. So showing the readme would solve the "what is that parameter" question for existing newgrfs
12:41:51  <planetmaker> or at least most
12:42:14  <planetmaker> a new parameter file would make setting parameters easier, but it'd need support by all newgrfs
12:42:59  <planetmaker> such a display of the readme is something more existing newgrfs would profit from ;-)
12:43:13  <Alberth> a machine readable parameter settings description has the same problem
12:43:20  <planetmaker> eh?
12:43:37  <Alberth> compared to a new parameter file
12:44:06  <planetmaker> yes. Which is in my eyes the same. If there's a new parameter file it can be of a format so that it can be understood by both, human and machine
12:44:13  <Alberth> but yeah, readme's are more interesting from a user point of view
12:44:39  <planetmaker> Note that I don't want to talk you out of the parameter file idea, though ;-)
12:45:46  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20109 /trunk/src/ (water.h water_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Make GetFloodingBehaviour() globally usable.
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12:47:03  <Alberth> no, only into generalizing scrollbars, eh? :)
12:50:04  <planetmaker> hu? :-)
12:50:11  <planetmaker> But... surely yes!
12:50:45  <SpComb> widget support for NewGRFs!
12:50:51  <SpComb> custom UI windows!
13:00:19  <Rubidium> no! NewGRFs should contains .dlls/.sos for their work
13:00:46  <planetmaker> they should bring their own OpenTTD version
13:02:25  <Alberth> everybody should run a NewGRF
13:02:33  <SpComb> but then they wouldn't be NewGRFs anymore
13:02:46  <SpComb> perhaps just bundle a compiler along, and then add in support for loading .patch's at runtime
13:02:53  <SpComb> then everyone would be happy
13:03:10  <Alberth> no, they'd complain about the startup time
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13:03:39  <Alberth> not to mention about the merge conflicts :p
13:04:18  <SpComb> they'd just use some 10 month old version of OpenTTD that happens to work with those patches
13:04:47  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20110 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3695]: Do not allow building a rail track to the water using a tree-tile.
13:07:04  <planetmaker> :-(
13:07:41  <Alberth> you love trees ?
13:07:49  <planetmaker> and water :-)
13:08:03  <planetmaker> especially today with these temperatures...
13:08:21  <Alberth> well, good news, 20110 prevents from polluting those nice tiles with dirty rail tracks
13:08:29  <svip> WOo
13:08:32  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
13:08:37  <svip> No more rails on tiles with trees.
13:08:45  <planetmaker> I'm just building r20110
13:08:49  <Alberth> only near the water side svip
13:08:55  <svip> Oh.
13:08:57  <svip> :(
13:09:16  <svip> You should make a ecomaniac revision.
13:09:23  <svip> Where no pollution was allowed!
13:09:25  <planetmaker> go ahead
13:09:54  <frosch123> indestructible trees, which can only be removed by funding lumber mills :p
13:10:04  <Alberth> svip: that's easy, no town, no roads, no industries, no transports.
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13:10:46  <Rubidium> frosch123: and *only* if you replant 3 times as many trees as you're chopping
13:10:46  <svip> So, it should just be OpenD then?
13:11:05  <Alberth> frosch123: or the town authorities get VERY upset with you after removing a single tree, and refuse further clearing :)
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13:12:10  <Alberth> svip: that mode already exists, just start the scenario editor, and don't build a town
13:12:30  <svip> Or an industry.
13:12:40  <Alberth> you cannot without a town
13:12:57  <svip> Industries belong to towns?
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13:14:40  <planetmaker> Alberth: now do this: bulldoze the coastal tile and build a rail then
13:14:48  <Alberth> I know
13:14:49  <planetmaker> down to the water :-)
13:15:01  <Alberth> good luck with fixing
13:15:16  <frosch123> :p
13:15:19  <planetmaker> :-)
13:15:27  <frosch123> planetmaker: intentional
13:15:52  <planetmaker> but... why can't I build it then without bulldozing?
13:15:54  <svip> How do I find the nearest industry?
13:16:12  <frosch123> planetmaker: you can also bulldoze a sea tile and build a rail there
13:16:13  <Alberth> svip: look at the small map ?
13:16:14  <svip> Well, the nearest tile with an industry.
13:16:19  <svip> Alberth: I meant in coding.
13:17:38  <Alberth> iterate over the industries, and check the distance
13:17:55  <Alberth> at least there does not seem to be a *Nearest*Indust* function
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13:19:14  <Alberth> I don't know how you get tiles from that, but no doubt you can ask for industry layouts
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13:21:42  <frosch123> stations have a cached list of nearyby industries
13:21:47  <frosch123> look how that one is filled
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13:26:02  <Alberth> there are no iconic industry graphics, are there?  Like the newgrf stations have.
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13:26:39  <frosch123> only map colours
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13:38:47  <svip> Alberth: Check this out: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=33701&p=888995#p888995
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13:40:40  <Alberth> colourfull :)
13:44:38  <svip> Alberth: Verily.
13:44:57  <svip> I am hoping that this patch will eventually make it to trunk.
13:48:57  <SpComb> what do you need graphics for anymore if you get tile outlines like that
13:50:33  <svip> Exactly.
13:51:14  <SpComb> just disable all the other viewport drawing other than the tile outlines
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14:12:14  <ccfreak2k> svip, remember that being integrated into trunk means someone needs to maintain it.
14:13:06  <svip> ccfreak2k: I would not mind taking that responsibility.
14:13:17  <svip> But I bet someone would mind giving me that responsibility.
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15:14:55  <TB2> TrueBrain: you stink
15:16:10  * Sacro chuckles
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15:21:16  <glx> TB2: someone lost some access ?
15:21:51  <SpComb> forgot his ssh keys and locked himself out?
15:27:46  <TB2> glx: nah; I am in a DC, and I was waiting for orudge  to reply :p
15:28:20  <glx> lucky guy, you're in a fresh place
15:28:46  <TB2> this DC uses air-coridors
15:28:54  <TB2> the air I am in, is the one that went through the servers
15:28:57  <TB2> I am rather outside
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15:36:47  <Wolf01> gah.. troubles with VPM_X_AND_Y....
15:38:16  <TB2> revery left and right
15:39:52  <Wolf01> no, I need to select a "non-straight" line
15:40:21  <Wolf01> without drawing the full rectangle area...
15:40:46  <Wolf01> just the start and cursor position or if possible a step line
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15:57:36  * TB2 bitchslaps Xaroth_
15:57:39  <TB2> just because he can
15:58:57  <Wolf01> hmm... there is a little problem when calculating the height with 0 distance but it should work fine
15:59:17  <Wolf01> apart the selection problem
15:59:55  <Wolf01> and a nasty trick to not disable tooltips with measurements tool disabled
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16:00:13  <Wolf01> that check shoud go outside that function
16:00:21  <Wolf01> *should
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16:07:30  <Wolf01> ok, I might just avoid to call that wrapper and call directly the tooltip function instead
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16:16:30  <Wolf01> what's better to understand, a distance measured with manhattan or euclidean?
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17:11:39  <Ammler> http://53551a99.cable.casema.nl/pics/Swedish_0.5.0_glitch.png <-- worth to report this to railtypes or is that "unfixable"?
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17:18:08  <Wolf01> uhm.. nice: height delta = 50m, height from the sea 40m
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17:26:44  <frosch123> Ammler: where shall i look?
17:27:56  <Ammler> frosch123: the unsnowy tracks on foundations beside the tunnels
17:28:36  <Ammler> this is with r20080
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17:29:56  <Wolf01> those are the sleepers, not foundations :P
17:31:11  <Wolf01> and that's a fault of the tile drawing method, if we switch to overlay drawing to draw tracks and roads, the number of sprites to draw will be reduced dramatically
17:31:40  <Wolf01> and tiles could keep their right terrain sprite
17:32:19  <frosch123> Wolf01: in which year do you live?
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17:33:11  <Wolf01> 2148
17:33:35  <frosch123> oh, we removed it again by then?
17:34:43  <Wolf01> yes, rails and roads are again drawn as full tile: terrain+track or terrain+road, the only overlay I see is the tram tracks...
17:35:29  <frosch123> Wolf01: maybe you should take a closer look at newrailtypes
17:36:15  <Wolf01> but I don't see any "newrailtype" on the original/opengfx graphics
17:36:25  <frosch123> Ammler: i guess that is the grf using the groundtype variable, which is not really slope/foundation-aware
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17:38:17  <Wolf01> mmmh, how can I get the height of a tile from the sea level, I have only a TileIndex
17:38:23  <Ammler> I thought, they fixed that somehow
17:38:24  <Eddi|zuHause> <svip> I am hoping that this patch will eventually make it to trunk. <-- you certainly have my vote, but it must be in a somewhat "finished" state before you disappear next time :p
17:38:55  <Wolf01> and I can't use the CalcHeightdiff with the tile(0,0) because I can't be sure it's sea
17:39:34  <frosch123> Ammler: no, ottd is not yet that detailed at that point
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17:42:03  <frosch123> Wolf01: GetTileSlope returns also the height of the lowest corner
17:42:24  <Wolf01> oh, seem that I did not looked too much far, GetTileZ(t1) should be enough
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17:43:35  <Wolf01> no, it's not...
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17:44:38  <frosch123> what do you want? please specify corner of tile, below/on top of foundation, and height unit (steps 0-15, pixels, meters)
17:45:39  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r20111 /trunk/src/lang/ (bulgarian.txt portuguese.txt ukrainian.txt):
17:45:39  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:39  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 74 changes by kokobongo
17:45:39  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: portuguese - 3 changes by ABCRic
17:45:39  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 1 changes by Fixer
17:45:58  <Wolf01> I want to know the height of the tile from the sea level
17:46:37  <Terkhen> the smallmap must do that somewhere
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17:50:40  <Wolf01> I did that with the GetTileSlope(t1, &h); function
17:51:35  <frosch123> so you wanted: lowest corner, below foundation and steps 0-15 :)
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17:52:54  <Alberth> CalcHeightdiff() ?
17:53:09  <Wolf01> maybe GetTileZ(ti); was better, I need to do h / 8 * 50 to make it compatible with the heightdiff of the tooltip
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17:54:51  <Wolf01> ok, now some little tuning and it should work
17:55:09  <frosch123> replace that 8 with TILE_HEIGHT
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17:55:55  <Eddi|zuHause> that 50 should be some constant also...
17:56:31  <frosch123> indeed, TILE_HEIGHT_STEP
17:56:31  <Eddi|zuHause> a propos... what's the state of the more heightlevels patch?
17:56:53  <frosch123> sounds like daylength
17:57:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i was under the impression there was more work involved there ;)
17:57:22  <frosch123> requires tons of decisions which noone made
17:57:39  <frosch123> i don't think more heighlevel requires less :)
17:58:34  <Eddi|zuHause> but, especially on larger maps, more heightlevels could actually be useful...
17:59:11  <frosch123> i thought daylength is also meant for too large maps
17:59:25  <frosch123> easy solution: remove large maps
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18:00:09  * Wolf01 wants daylength
18:00:27  <Wolf01> I should update that patch too.. maybe rewrite it from scratch
18:00:42  <Wolf01> for the 3rd time
18:01:00  <Eddi|zuHause> things like the USA map really suffer from too flat terrain
18:01:32  <Wolf01> bbl... maybe in the night
18:01:38  <Eddi|zuHause> 3rd time? 3rd time by you maybe, it's at least 5 versions out there already
18:01:58  <Wolf01> yeah, mine 3rd time
18:02:25  <Wolf01> because all other versions have something which does not work as intended
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18:04:45  <Wolf01> bye
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19:20:32  <b_jonas> I'm now trying to remove sharp corners from important tracks and juctions, and now I'm starting to see why you all like this challence so much
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19:26:36  <Alberth> what challenge?
19:27:08  <b_jonas> building junctions with few sharp corners
19:27:14  <Alberth> oh, the highly interesting work of unmessing up your track system :)
19:27:17  <b_jonas> junctions that work of course
19:27:21  <b_jonas> yep
19:28:22  <Alberth> yes that makes a huge difference when not near stations
19:29:05  <Alberth> good luck with your conversions
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19:33:48  <b_jonas> of course, I should later convert this line to monorail, which will improve much more than the corners
19:34:08  <b_jonas> diagonal bridges would help...
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19:45:16  * b_jonas wonders if bulldozing the whole junction (after saving) might be the best way to fix this
19:45:55  <b_jonas> it's a junction connecting three towns to a long double line
19:46:00  <b_jonas> and is high traffic
19:46:56  <b_jonas> I think I've done that once on this junction
19:47:01  <b_jonas> still
19:47:14  <b_jonas> as a compromise, I'll work on another line first till I make up my mind
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19:59:45  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20112 /trunk/src/command_type.h: -Codechange: Prevent implicit use of CommandCost constructors.
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20:03:13  <__ln__> is "compensar" inflected similarly to "pensar"?
20:06:43  <Terkhen> __ln__: http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltGUIVerbos?origen=RAE&IDVERBO=2725      http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltGUIVerbos?origen=RAE&IDVERBO=8468
20:06:43  *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:07:16  <Terkhen> almost
20:07:40  <__ln__> but no 'e' -> 'ie' change, funny
20:08:35  <__ln__> i'll add a bookmark to that site, looks useful
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20:09:38  <__ln__> @seen zachanima
20:09:38  <DorpsGek> __ln__: zachanima was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 0 days, 20 hours, 51 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <zachanima> that would be nothing less than swell
20:10:43  <zachanima> wha
20:11:12  <__ln__> you don't talk much :)
20:11:15  <zachanima> I was at a festival
20:12:10  *** glx_ [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:546:7c1e:b6a1:b40f] has joined #openttd
20:12:13  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx_] by ChanServ
20:12:27  <zachanima> but I still don't talk much, no
20:12:44  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20113 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt road_cmd.cpp): -Add [FS#3895]: Show an specific error message when trying to remove nonexistant roads (Krille).
20:13:08  *** glx is now known as Guest2644
20:13:09  *** glx_ is now known as glx
20:15:48  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20114 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt rail_cmd.cpp): -Add: Show an specific error message when trying to remove rail or build/convert/remove signals over nonexistant railways.
20:16:11  *** Guest2644 [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:546:7c1e:b6a1:b40f] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:17:19  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20115 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt station_cmd.cpp): -Add: Show an specific error message when trying to remove nonexistant stations.
20:19:03  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... if one makes three times the same spelling mistake...
20:19:12  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20116 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt rail_cmd.cpp): -Add: Show an specific error message when trying to convert/remove nonexistant signals.
20:19:21  <Terkhen> probably four times
20:19:25  <Terkhen> which one?
20:19:42  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that word will soon be spelt that way
20:19:48  <andythenorth> along with independant
20:19:57  <Eddi|zuHause> contrary to spanish, english words starting with "s" don't start with "es" :)
20:20:16  <Eddi|zuHause> and the other one that andythenorth mentions
20:20:22  <Terkhen> oh, right
20:20:37  <__ln__> Eddi is especially right
20:21:02  <Terkhen> it is already hard enough to remember not to write "especific" or "especial"
20:23:15  <Eddi|zuHause> well... i occasionally make similar mistakes... especially "an ufo"
20:23:37  <andythenorth> Terkhen: what are you working on?
20:23:46  <Eddi|zuHause> (because, in my mind, it is not pronounced "jufo")#
20:24:02  <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: I did not even know that was a mistake
20:24:14  <Terkhen> andythenorth: nothing, just checking flyspray tasks
20:24:23  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: like "an unicorn" ?
20:24:33  <Terkhen> but I have some logs for you
20:24:43  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: i don't remember ever having used that word...
20:24:57  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's the same thing, yes
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20:25:11  <Terkhen> I'm not sure if I set the closure parameters correctly, because the logs look suspiciously similar
20:25:12  <__ln__> they use it more in france where unicorns are a more common form of wild life
20:25:41  <andythenorth> Terkhen: pm them?
20:25:49  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly ufos are more common in germany than unicorns :p
20:29:48  <Terkhen> andythenorth: sent
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20:32:50  <andythenorth> Terkhen: looks like my code has some sort of fail :(
20:33:00  <andythenorth> there should be no closures with param 0 0 0
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20:33:57  * andythenorth thinks that not enabling the prod. change cb could be some part of the fail :o
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20:35:56  <Terkhen> I'm checking again to be sure... there are closures with 0 0 0
20:39:46  *** Sacro1 [~Sacro@83.100.250.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:43:35  <andythenorth> Terkhen: there will be closures with 0 0 0 :)
20:43:43  <andythenorth> I wrote my code wrong
20:43:45  <andythenorth> :|
20:49:41  <Terkhen> okay :)
20:50:07  <frosch123> night
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20:55:21  <b_jonas> I can't bribe a town for the noise limit, can I?
20:55:29  <Eddi|zuHause> no
20:55:36  <Eddi|zuHause> the noise limit depends on population
20:55:44  <Eddi|zuHause> and distance from town center
20:56:18  <svip> Can you purchase the state and make the population your slaves and do everything at your every whimp?
20:56:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is called "disable the noise limit"
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20:58:04  <b_jonas> for some reason, the AI has built lots of stations with no tracks from them
20:58:26  <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably AdmiralAI
20:58:35  <Eddi|zuHause> it has problems cleaning up failed attempts
20:58:40  <b_jonas> yes, AdmiralAI
20:58:51  <Eddi|zuHause> as in... it doesn't do that at all
20:59:17  <b_jonas> uh huh
20:59:25  <b_jonas> but it's doing quite good
20:59:45  <b_jonas> I'll have to take care to buy the better company out before that would cost me my whole fortune
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21:01:39  <b_jonas> I have .49e8, her company has value .27e8
21:04:11  <b_jonas> night
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21:09:35  * Eddi|zuHause expects a "new" song soon... "54 74 90 2014"
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21:24:07  <bschindler|home> Hi - how do I build multiple-unit trains? I only get 1 waggon all the time
21:27:12  <devilsadvocate> bschindler|home, add passenger / mail carriages
21:27:31  <bschindler|home> no, that's not what I mean
21:27:45  <bschindler|home> I mean the multiple-units from the 2cc train set
21:28:01  <devilsadvocate> probably the same for that as well
21:28:18  <bschindler|home> for example there is the Rabde510 , or the Rae TEE II - there are no waggons that match it's style
21:28:32  <devilsadvocate> the passenger / mail carriages will integrate with the engine as long as it satisfies whatever restrictions there are on it
21:29:00  <devilsadvocate> the regular passenger carriages will. just try them
21:29:12  <bschindler|home> http://users.tt-forums.net/2cc/vehiclelist.html
21:29:21  <bschindler|home> there are no waggons matching the style of the loc
21:29:27  <bschindler|home> see the rabde510 as an example
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21:30:18  <bschindler|home> aahhh.. I got it - there is a special multiple-unit wagon
21:30:28  <bschindler|home> and it gives the correct waggon for the current train
21:32:04  <devilsadvocate> it will do so for all MUs
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21:32:51  <devilsadvocate> the other trainsets usually do it with the regular passenger car, they may be using a special one here since 2cc seems to have a bunch of different passenger wagons to start with
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21:56:34  * MeCooL brb
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22:03:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think anybody wanted to know...
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22:31:31  <Terkhen> good night
22:31:34  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host20-232-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
22:32:15  <Wolf01> eh, you lucky Germans...
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22:37:06  <__ln__> MeCooL: back yet?
22:37:19  *** Devroush [~dennis@83.101.80.75] has quit []
22:38:41  <planetmaker> __ln__: btw, thanks, it arrived
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22:40:49  <__ln__> good
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22:45:38  <Wolf01> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=49212 anyone interested?
22:46:04  <Mazur> pm: About the persistent bus in Swedish rail.
22:46:22  <planetmaker> persistent bus?
22:46:27  <Mazur> bug
22:46:37  <planetmaker> what bug?
22:47:44  <planetmaker> and no, i can't scroll back. :-) You talked too much in #openttdcoop :-P
22:48:24  <Mazur> unsnowed tracks on the snowline: http://53551A99.cable.casema.nl/pics/Swedish_0.5.0_glitch.png
22:48:55  <Mazur> I was looking for my urrel.
22:48:59  <planetmaker> ah, yes. That's an OpenTTD bug
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22:49:14  <planetmaker> it happens on foundation tiles
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22:51:01  <Wolf01> there's no half snow terrain for tracks, so when the terrain is half snow it doesn't know what to put under it: snowy or not?
22:51:16  <planetmaker> not quite
22:51:32  <planetmaker> it uses for foundation tiles the snow information of the lowest part
22:51:46  <planetmaker> which is then not valid anymore on top of the foundations
22:52:00  <planetmaker> your observation leads to the missing snow transition with tracks
22:52:43  <planetmaker> and there's a patch which fixes both...
22:54:25  <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/snow2.png
22:54:43  <devilsadvocate> if i want to work on some small and unimportant 'feature' for openttd, should i be doing it against svn-trunk, a git branch of svn-trunk, or a git branch of openttd-cargodist (which i play) ?
22:54:47  <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/snow.png
22:55:07  <planetmaker> devilsadvocate: depends
22:55:39  <planetmaker> if you want to see it used elsewhere, you should work on a more or less recent trunk version
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22:55:51  <planetmaker> which VCS you use doesn't matter,
22:56:25  <devilsadvocate> so if i eventually want to push it upstream i'd basically be sending patches against trunk?
22:56:28  <planetmaker> git, hg and svn checkouts are always syncronized
22:57:08  <planetmaker> well. You won't push it upstream, but maybe you can convince a dev, if it's a good and useful patch and complies with coding style
22:57:30  <planetmaker> what you do locally... up to you. I#d use locally always either hg or git
22:58:30  <planetmaker> besideds, changes which alter game play should always be made against trunk. Because there's no point to patch a stable version with game play changes.
22:58:37  <planetmaker> It's not compatible then anymore anyway
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23:00:39  <devilsadvocate> hrm
23:00:45  <devilsadvocate> yeah, thats what i meant by
23:00:49  <devilsadvocate> 'push'
23:01:38  <planetmaker> :-)
23:01:52  <planetmaker> yes, all new things are made against trunk
23:02:26  <Rubidium> planetmaker: lies... there's plenty only for stable
23:02:37  <planetmaker> :-)
23:03:00  <planetmaker> Some by you, all other mostly futile and useless by others
23:03:13  <planetmaker> Only useful backport to stable might be some client-side patches
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23:09:44  <Rubidium> planetmaker: luukland, ex, goulp, ...
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23:12:28  <planetmaker> yes
23:12:56  <planetmaker> but still... not sure it's useful ;-)
23:13:11  <planetmaker> it'd be useful somewhat if it'd be open-source ;-)
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23:48:55  <Wolf01> 'night
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