Log for #openttd on 21st July 2010:
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00:06:30  <devilsadvocate> k. time to give up this game and start afresh
00:06:43  <devilsadvocate> turns out i've lost more routes than i first realized
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00:46:44  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... anyone has a quick-and-dirty method to strip all characters from a file until it hits a "\n\n"?
00:47:12  <Eddi|zuHause> preferably using an easy scripting language
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00:52:54  <Eddi|zuHause> f=open('30f36d3db0f3310677edb9e53f0356fca2f5d126','rb')
00:52:56  <Eddi|zuHause> while len(>1: pass
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00:53:02  <Eddi|zuHause> that seems to do it.
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01:40:12  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... next question, how do i quickly join many images into one "mosaique"
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01:46:52  <VVG> I know with irfanview you can easily create a panorama image, both vertical or horizontal, out of a batch of images.
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02:04:48  <Eddi|zuHause> next problem, i'm missing a few images
02:12:22  <VVG> that's easy - make them :p
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06:12:35  <andythenorth> morning
06:16:00  <Terkhen> good morning
06:17:25  <dihedral> sugarcrm is annoying :-(
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06:43:11  <Pikka> good morning herr andythenorth
06:43:24  <Pikka> and other likeminded folk
06:43:47  <andythenorth> hi monsieur Pikka
06:45:01  <andythenorth> bonnet de douche
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06:53:48  <Pikka> charming
06:53:53  <orudge> yes, yes you are
06:57:14  <Pikka> it's donald!
06:57:29  <orudge> lies
06:57:58  * Pikka has had an offer of lemon chicken and must depart forthwith
07:22:33  <Pikka> at least
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08:21:13  <fjb> Moin.
08:23:25  <Pikka> oui
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09:17:54  <__ln__>
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09:19:36  <dihedral> lol
09:19:46  <dihedral> that looks like __ln__ himself was at work :-D
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09:50:47  <dihedral>
09:55:33  <Rubidium> boring...
09:55:45  <Rubidium> or should I say... old
10:00:20  <peter1138> i'd not seen it
10:04:23  <Forked> me neither
10:04:29  <Forked> but I have that stupid double rainbow song in my head :\
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10:20:11  <TrueBrain> dihedral: if you want to give the url to that page, use the right one:
10:20:36  <TrueBrain> there are all his 'funny' conversations
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10:33:58  <__ln__> indeed 'funny' only in quotes.. assuming that story is even true.
10:35:42  <TrueBrain> they are fiction
10:35:49  <TrueBrain> David Thorne writes fiction, in columns mostly
10:36:06  <TrueBrain> mostly it has some feedback to the real world, but that is about it
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10:55:52  * Pikka muahahaha
10:55:55  <Pikka> it works!
11:05:55  <Pikka> except for that little bit there...
11:14:46  <Pikka> durrrrrrrrrr
11:14:49  * Pikka slaps self
11:15:16  <peter1138> DURRRRRRR
11:16:32  <Pikka> okay
11:16:37  <Pikka> that works, except it doesn't.
11:17:01  <Pikka> to flyspreys!
11:17:33  <Pikka> well
11:17:36  <Pikka> to the changelog first
11:18:39  <Pikka> hmm
11:20:00  <Pikka> this behaviour looks desyncful perhaps...?
11:20:57  <Pikka> callback 10 (Powered wagons and visual effect) is not updated when changing railtype...
11:21:41  <Pikka> my class 73s are working perfectly except for that :)
11:22:13  <Yexo> "and is only called when loading a game or when rearranging the train in a depot" from the spec
11:22:46  <Pikka> Yexo: well that's wrong at least, it is also called when they train reverses
11:22:48  <Yexo> if you use the new variable "current railtype" than it might indeed be a possible desync
11:22:51  <Pikka> -y
11:22:58  <Pikka> and I do, indeed :)
11:23:17  <Yexo> could you make a very small testcase for that?
11:23:29  <Pikka> yep
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11:30:24  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r20199 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix [FS#3964]: NewGRFs that defined a vehicle without either loaded or loading groups could crash OpenTTD
11:34:47  <Pikka> Yexo:
11:35:43  <Pikka> should spark under wires and blow steam on regular rails
11:36:42  <Ammler> <-- what does this "16" mean?
11:38:05  <Yexo> the size of the tile
11:40:13  <Ammler> but how do you get "16"?
11:41:41  <Ammler> I would mean, it is the half of the y of the tile
11:41:47  <Ammler> 15+1
11:42:21  <Yexo> I don't think it has a direct relation with the graphics
11:42:30  <Yexo> it's just the position openttd uses to index positions within a tile
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11:46:03  <Eddi|zuHause> TTD has a 16x16 grid overlay over the tile, where positions (e.g. of vehicles) can be aligned
11:46:13  <Eddi|zuHause> that is the lowest step a vehicle can travel
11:46:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe tiles are 64 pixels wide and 32 pixels high, +-1
11:47:21  <Narcissus> can someone link me to guide about "running a dedi openttd server"
11:47:28  <Narcissus> can't find anything obvious on the wiki
11:47:46  <Eddi|zuHause> so a step along this grid is one pixel up/down and two pixels left/right
11:47:50  <Yexo> tried this ?
11:47:56  <Alberth> Narcissus: the forums, most likely the general questions
11:48:07  <Narcissus> Yexo: thanks :)
11:48:09  <Alberth> Narcissus: and perhaps make a guide at  the wiki too?
11:48:12  <Narcissus> Alberth: I will have a look, thanks
11:48:33  <Yexo> and as Alberth says, if you encounter any omissions / errors on the wiki please do correct them
11:49:03  <Eddi|zuHause> (but take this information with a grain of salt)
11:50:09  <Alberth> Narcissus: at least an obvious link is missing
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11:53:05  <Ammler> my problem is how do I offset a sprite, which would need a full 16x16 bounding box but has a 14x11 box
11:53:41  <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean?
11:54:13  <Ammler> basically this:
11:54:23  <Ammler> 	M( 0xf54, PAL_NONE,  0x5b5, PAL_NONE,  1,  3, 14, 11,   7, 0),
11:54:58  <Ammler>   384 sprites/pcx/buildings.pcx 675 2472 09 87 64 -31 -56
11:55:07  <Ammler> I need to change -31 -56
11:55:40  <Ammler> I just wonder, if there is some formula, or if I need to adjust every single house manually
11:55:47  <Ammler> which has no standard box
11:56:24  <Eddi|zuHause> change to what?
11:56:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i really don't understand what you are trying to do
11:57:22  <Ammler> just look the other examples in that thread, the houses are misaligned, but that is because of the bounding box
11:57:48  <Eddi|zuHause> the formulas to transform 3D into 2D coordinates are in RemapCoords
11:57:55  <Ammler> the houses which use 16x16 are fine
11:58:24  <Narcissus> one more question: where can I get AIs?
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11:58:49  <Eddi|zuHause> from the "check online content" button on the title menu
11:58:51  <Ammler> Narcissus: tried readme?
11:59:28  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: any link?
12:01:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: "grep RemapCoords src/*.h"
12:02:10  <Eddi|zuHause> or something...
12:02:26  <Alberth> src/landscape.h  :)
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12:03:15  <Alberth> src/tile_type.h:static const uint TILE_SIZE      = 16;            ///< Tiles are 16x16 "units" in size
12:03:44  <Alberth> ie TILE_SIZE positions
12:04:55  <Alberth> but that is the logical position of a vehicle at a tile, and not directly related to graphics
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12:08:34  <__ln__>
12:09:01  <Eddi|zuHause> basically, if you have a coordinate of like (11,5,8) you go 11*2 pixels left, 5*2 pixels right, 11 pixels down, 5 pixels down and 8 pixels up, so you have (11-5)*2=12, (11+5-8)=8. reverse the axis, so you get (-12,8) as screen coordinate
12:09:52  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: are you able to use my example above?
12:10:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i understand no part of that example
12:10:45  <Ammler> the first is the bounding box, 2nd is the sprite
12:11:11  <Ammler> which needs a 16x16 box with pos 0,0
12:11:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: lots of numbers with no explanation
12:12:15  <Ammler> M(s1, p1, s2, p2, sx, sy, w, h, dz, p) sx, sy = position, w,h,dz = box
12:15:16  <Eddi|zuHause> so... do i understand you right now: you have a sprite, and put xrel=-31 yrel=-56, but that was calculated relatively to top corner of tile (0,0,0). now you must modify this relative to top corner of bounding box (1,3,0)?
12:17:09  <Eddi|zuHause> if so, then the remapping of (1,3,0) results in (-(1-3)*2,(1+3-0)) = (2,4)
12:17:38  <Eddi|zuHause> so you must adjust your xrel/yrel by this number, not entirely sure about direction
12:18:10  <Eddi|zuHause> er... (4,4)
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12:20:33  <Eddi|zuHause> is that anywhere close to your solution?
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12:24:44  <Ammler> where do you calc with the box?
12:24:47  <Ammler> 14x11
12:25:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think the size is relevant, only the position
12:25:35  <Eddi|zuHause> or i still don't understand your problem
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12:26:31  <Ammler> you don't see the ugly missalignments of the houses in the screens?
12:28:53  <Ammler> hmm, -35 -60 might be the solution
12:29:02  <Eddi|zuHause> that's pretty close to what i calculated, move 4 up and 4 left
12:29:09  <Ammler> yep
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12:30:04  <Belugas> hello
12:30:04  <Eddi|zuHause> but of course the real solution was to redo the bounding box...
12:30:16  <Eddi|zuHause> good morning, Belugas
12:30:22  <Ammler> halÌ Belugas
12:30:59  <Belugas> good afternoon to both of you :)
12:31:06  <Ammler> yes, someone already suggested that in the thread, but how should that be possible without screwing original sprites
12:31:38  <Ammler> or do you mean, we should replace those houses with newgrf?
12:31:59  <Ammler> is that possible at all?
12:32:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea
12:32:20  <Belugas> mmh?
12:32:26  <Eddi|zuHause> the other solution is draw a house that fits into the bounding box
12:32:41  <Ammler> Belugas: opengfx houses have other bounding boxes then ttd originals
12:32:44  <Belugas> wadyatalkabooot?
12:32:48  <Ammler> so our offsets are screwed
12:32:54  <Belugas> ho... bad bad bad
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12:33:01  <Ammler> yes yes yes :-)
12:33:06  <Eddi|zuHause>
12:34:07  <Rubidium> ooh... session ids
12:34:19  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: basically I just need to multiplicate x*2
12:34:27  <Ammler> then it should work
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12:34:48  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: err... what?
12:35:12  <Ammler> no
12:35:35  <Belugas> mmmh... i see
12:35:39  <Eddi|zuHause> (x-y)*2 for xrel, and (x+y) for yrel
12:35:42  <Alberth> Belugas: hello
12:35:45  <Eddi|zuHause> plus sign adjustment
12:35:51  <Belugas> hi hi Alberth :)
12:38:06  <Belugas> so... what you were thinking was to have a grf correcting the offset of that house (or maybe more) which is in opengfx
12:38:08  <Belugas> mmh...
12:38:15  <Belugas> don't think it's possible
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12:41:59  <Ammler> I am not sure, if it is easier, now we just need to adjust non-standard houses
12:42:40  <Belugas> why not a new release?
12:42:45  <Ammler> of?
12:44:15  <Ammler> can't change max. loan from a save
12:44:16  <Alberth>   looks nice, doesn't it?
12:44:22  <Ammler> even not in sp
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12:47:59  <Ammler> indeed nice Alberth :-)
12:49:05  <Belugas> of opengfx.  not possible?
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12:49:41  <Belugas> BLINKS BLINKS at Alberth's URL
12:50:44  * Yexo wonders how that will look like for the "... supplies' cargo industries in firs
12:50:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: interesting, but the "stubs" at the cargo names, are they necessary?
12:50:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i find them confusing
12:50:55  <Alberth> now if only clicking, rtl support, and the same kind of picture but around a cargo instead of an industry, would work :p
12:51:06  <Eddi|zuHause> looks like some industry is missing there...
12:51:59  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I am drawing cargoes around the central industry only, not all the other industries
12:52:10  <Terkhen> yeah, it looks nice :)
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12:52:28  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: but you should be able to click at it in the future, and get the view around that confusing cargo
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12:52:52  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i mean where you write "Iron Ore"
12:53:01  <Yexo> Alberth: in any case it's impressive work!
12:53:16  <Eddi|zuHause> that should probably be fit into the red area, not next to it with a "stub"
12:53:21  <Alberth> it should be for the amount of lines :)
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12:55:44  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I am currently already happy that you can see what a cargo connection carries. There are plenty of more important missing things to fix first
12:57:27  <Ammler> Belugas: it will need a new release of opengfx anyway
12:57:28  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: there is at least a readability issue with your solution; bright yellow background with white text does not work nicely (grain colour).
12:58:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: maybe write the cargo name at the "input" and "output" of the industry (inside the rect)
12:58:19  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: so the "cargo line" only connects industries
12:59:16  <Alberth> at both input and output?  that will make the industries much wider, I think
12:59:38  <Belugas> mmh... houses... that reminds me of something i started
12:59:45  <Belugas> and nce again not finished...
13:00:34  <Alberth> Belugas: 9801 revisions until the next party :p
13:03:14  <Belugas> :D
13:03:51  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: xrel=(1-3)*2=-4 -> -31+-4=-35 (OK) / yrel: (1+3)=4 -> -56+4=-52 (should be -60)
13:04:04  <Ammler> so can I just assume, it is - for yrel?
13:04:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i said "plus sign adjustment"
13:04:18  <Terkhen> IMO showing that amount of info around a cargo would be nice but not strictly required
13:05:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i mean something like this:
13:06:03  <Alberth> yes, but you don't have the space
13:07:00  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you can make sure that you don't have an input and an output on the same line
13:07:58  <Eddi|zuHause> so you shift the problem to making the industries higher
13:08:09  <Alberth> you can in general have 1 text at one line, you you need 1 line extra for the industry name, and 2 lines extra for one of the sides.
13:08:18  <Alberth> ie make the industry types twice as high
13:09:15  <Eddi|zuHause> you can fit 3 lines in the current rect
13:09:23  <Alberth> yes
13:09:26  <Eddi|zuHause> that's industry name + 2 cargos
13:09:41  <Eddi|zuHause> for industries with more cargos, like the factory, you can make it higher
13:09:58  <Eddi|zuHause> adjusting height is way less problematic in a layout like this
13:10:42  <Alberth> except you have 3 accepting cargoes, 2 produced cargoes + the name of the industry, 6 lines
13:10:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
13:11:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see that as a problem
13:11:24  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r20200 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3930]: terraform and extra viewport hotkeys didn't work in the scenario editor (jawsper)
13:11:28  <Eddi|zuHause> except for making the height dynamic, which is a coding problem, not a design problem
13:11:34  <Alberth> and if you want to do it nicely, you need also some space to show the colour of the industry
13:12:14  <Eddi|zuHause> you can do that in a small rect next to the industry name?
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13:12:46  <Alberth> the box is calculated to fit any of the strings, and the industry type name may be the longest
13:13:47  <Eddi|zuHause> you really want to bargain for every pixel here? :)
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13:15:10  <Alberth> current line count is in the order of 860 lines, and there are lots of things not yet done.
13:15:28  <Alberth> to make progress, I'd rather finish those things first
13:15:43  <Alberth> however, if you feel like having a go, I can give you my current patch
13:16:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not touching GUI code :p
13:16:56  <Alberth> it's not gui code, it's window drawing code :p
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13:17:32  <Alberth> ie it does not do graphical user interaction :p
13:18:05  <Eddi|zuHause> drawing _IS_ a graphical user interaction :p
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13:23:33  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: I'd say it's a graphical interace, not necesarily interaction
13:23:52  <Yexo> s/interace/interface/
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13:27:01  <Eddi|zuHause> I is I...
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13:33:36  <Celestar> morning
13:33:53  <Alberth> hello Celestar
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13:43:15  <VVG> hello
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13:53:44  <robotboy> hello
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14:01:18  <Ammler> this loading random game, if save fails is the worst you ever made...
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14:01:32  <Ammler> who suggested such crap?
14:02:28  <Ammler> those people really should be forced to admin a server
14:03:36  <SpComb> bug?
14:04:04  <Ammler> yes it is, but some might call it feature :'-(
14:04:30  * robotboy waits while DOS moves all the DJGPP zips of his USB Key
14:04:45  <robotboy> I wouldn't want it on my DOS machine
14:06:51  <Ammler> also debug_level ai is 0 but those are still listed in the console
14:06:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't understand it either...
14:07:08  <Eddi|zuHause> if loading fails, it should obviously quit with an error...
14:07:14  <Ammler> hmm, that might now be a real bug
14:07:57  <Ammler> well, loading the intro game was fine too, at least you saw immediately, that something is wrong
14:09:17  <Belugas> mmh...
14:09:28  <Belugas> lottsa changes in dare
14:09:42  * robotboy wonders if compiling for DOS using DJGPP is anything like compiiling for linux as DJGPP is a DOS port of GCC and some of the GNU utils
14:10:38  <Yexo> Ammler: I think the reasoning was: if openttd quits you can't load another (the good one) savegame via rcon
14:10:58  <Yexo> same with loading the intro game, you can't join the server becaue it'll desync (and what if the intro screen is the savegame that fails?)
14:11:00  <Ammler> Yexo: you ned to restart openttd anyway
14:11:13  <Yexo> why?
14:11:16  <Ammler> since openttd doesn't reload fresh banans grfs
14:11:38  <Yexo> is there no console command for that?
14:11:49  <Ammler> oh, is there?
14:12:00  <Yexo> dunno, there is "reload_ais" for AIs
14:12:37  <Ammler> why does it need a command?
14:12:53  <Ammler> shouldn't it be just reload after "content download"
14:13:00  <Yexo> yes, it should
14:13:01  <Eddi|zuHause> nasty insects season still not over... still can't open my window
14:13:39  <Ammler> well, if that would be possible, I see sense to not quit openttd :-)
14:13:52  <Rubidium> robotboy: it is
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14:14:00  <robotboy> thanx
14:18:39  <Ammler> hmm, is the ai debug_level fixed in trunk?
14:18:44  <Ammler> seems there it is ok
14:28:25  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r20201 /trunk/src/ (order_gui.cpp toolbar_gui.cpp): -Feature [FS#3926]: add several new hotkeys to the global hotkey list and to the order windows. None of them has a default keybinding.
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14:31:29  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is there code to get the map-coordinates of the upper left and the lower right corner of the screen?
14:33:24  <Alberth> in small-map, I think
14:33:53  <Eddi|zuHause> and where is the _screen variable defined?
14:33:58  <Alberth> or in viewport
14:35:17  <Alberth> _screen is in gfx_func.h, line 64
14:35:33  <Alberth> but there you don't have coords any more, afaik
14:36:12  <Alberth> position calculation from a click in a viewport may be what you are looking for
14:36:31  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah... something like that
14:37:55  <Alberth> viewport_gui.cpp
14:38:26  <Alberth> line 111 and further look interesting
14:38:57  <robotboy> do  I need any extra libraries on top of the normal extra libs (I have allegro) for compiling on dos
14:39:26  <Rubidium> you mean besides zlib and liblzo?
14:39:42  <Rubidium> maybe you want libpng as well
14:40:06  <glx> btw there's no guarantee it will run on real hardware :)
14:40:24  <Rubidium> glx: I seem to remember robotboy running my binary on real hardware once
14:40:33  <glx> he's lucky
14:40:40  <Rubidium> and it should still compile
14:41:00  <Rubidium> unless someone broke it very recently
14:41:32  <robotboy> I did run it on the hardware im preping with DJGPP
14:41:59  <Rubidium> yep... it still compiles
14:42:05  <robotboy> I wrote a wiki article on how to get it running if you have access to the binary
14:42:11  <robotboy> good
14:42:12  <Rubidium> (cross-compiles that is)
14:42:28  <Rubidium> I've got lzo, zlib, libpng and allegro linked
14:49:49  * robotboy waits while windows unzip everything unto his USB Key
14:50:26  <Narcissus> uhm
14:50:40  <Narcissus> how do I associate an IRC channel here to my server
14:51:26  <frosch123> maybe with autopilot
14:51:55  <frosch123> or autopilot+ or whatever is current :)
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15:12:10  <andythenorth> hi hi
15:14:00  <robotboy> im geusing all the libs should go into the include dir within the DJGPP dir
15:14:21  <robotboy> I'm not doing anymore work on compiling until the morning
15:14:24  <Rubidium> dunno... never actually compile on DOS, just cross-compiled stuff
15:14:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i would assume libs go into the libs dir, and headers into the include dir...
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15:15:46  <Eddi|zuHause> but i never set up an environment like that manually
15:15:56  <robotboy> ok
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15:51:22  <TomyLobo> hi
15:52:12  <TomyLobo> is there a newgrf or something that makes the pathfinding "shadows" more visible on maglev (and on monorail too)?
15:52:36  <Yexo> don't think so
15:53:03  <Rubidium> there probably isn't, but it's arguably not very hard to make such a NewGRF as it's just replacing some sprites
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15:53:39  <Yexo> it's some recoloring sprites I think, the same as are used for crashed vehicles
15:55:03  <robotboy> gnight
15:57:51  <Rubidium> what... you're bailing out already? :(
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16:02:15  <robotboy> no
16:02:24  <robotboy> its 2:02 AM
16:04:25  <Markk> Nope, it's 6:04 PM.
16:04:25  <Markk> :)
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