Log for #openttd on 18th September 2010:
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06:06:56  <andythenorth> morning
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06:44:59  <Muxy> morning kiss
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06:56:03  <andythenorth> @seen frosch123
06:56:03  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 7 hours, 22 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <frosch123> yes
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07:25:20  <GecK> hi
07:31:19  <Terkhen> good morning
07:32:23  <robotboy> hello
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07:46:18  <SERGEY_ZP> Please, look at this pageØòàá/Ru , there are no RU flag, but on EN page both flags are present. What I do wrong on RU page?
07:50:29  <Eddi|zuHause> SERGEY_ZP: you don't have unicode set up, so we can't read the first link
07:51:04  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: you can go there from the second link, just click the russian flag
07:51:15  <Yexo>
07:51:20  <Yexo> ^^ does that work for you?
07:51:21  <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: yes
07:51:40  <Yexo> the strange thing is that it works if you go to edit page, preview
07:52:41  <SERGEY_ZP> yes, work
07:53:34  <Eddi|zuHause> SERGEY_ZP: i don't see anything obviously wrong. maybe it's a bug in the wiki
07:54:07  <SERGEY_ZP> ok, thanks
07:55:16  * andythenorth proposes a new cb
07:55:29  <andythenorth>
07:58:26  <dihedral> morning....
07:58:54  <VVG> actual link lists /Ru with R uppercase, while in edit it's lowercase, does that matter? if you go to /ru link, page does not exists
07:59:17  <dihedral> andythenorth, are you sure you want the first word in your forum thread title to be "Request"?
07:59:50  <dihedral> VVG, i assume that's the wiki right?
07:59:58  <dihedral> iirc all pages start with an uppercase letter
08:00:03  <andythenorth> dihedral: I've changed it to proposal
08:00:14  <dihedral> much better
08:00:23  <dihedral> the other word kinda is asking for 'flames' :-P
08:01:49  <SERGEY_ZP> Thanks for help VVG
08:02:31  <SERGEY_ZP> tag language_page=ru must be uppercase language_page=Ru
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08:02:53  <Wolf01> morning
08:03:41  <VVG> Did you save your page? I don't see any difference and in edit preview it worked before anyway
08:04:18  <SERGEY_ZP> i save page several seconds ago
08:04:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the page shows correctly now
08:04:25  <VVG> yeah, just saw it
08:05:41  <planetmaker> good morning
08:06:51  * dihedral hopes that is not all google translate :-D
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08:07:35  <dihedral> good morning planetmaker
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08:10:11  <planetmaker> hey dihedral
08:19:03  <planetmaker> hm... spammers in the forums
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08:20:01  <Eddi|zuHause> <SERGEY_ZP> tag language_page=ru must be uppercase language_page=Ru <-- now i'm convinced that it's a bug/missing feature in the wiki...
08:20:46  <Eddi|zuHause> all wikis i know should be case-agnostic in the first letter...
08:21:45  <SERGEY_ZP> i agree whith you
08:22:23  <robotboy> we seem to be getting a bit more spam on the forums lately during your night
08:22:24  <SERGEY_ZP> in other pages this tag used like language_page=ru and there no problems
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08:34:11  <VVG> that's certainly curious. i browsed through a few russian pages and all work properly with lower case language_page
08:34:40  <VVG> if i knew before they should work with lower case, i wouldn't ever guesses uppercase might matter :9
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08:38:56  <SERGEY_ZP>  :)
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09:13:32  <Eddi|zuHause> how much power should a PSU in a decent PC give?
09:13:55  <Eddi|zuHause> ... i mean they offer from 350W to 1000W...
09:14:08  <dihedral> 350 may cause issues, depending whats inside
09:14:16  <dihedral> 1000W is overkill (mostely)
09:14:23  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly
09:14:28  <Eddi|zuHause> but what's the "right" amount?
09:14:30  <dihedral> however, the PSU will only drain what it needs
09:14:42  <dihedral> for the 'right' amount you could start calculating
09:14:54  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the answer to mb is 'bloomsmith' :P
09:14:55  <dihedral> usually you will be provided with those details when buying components :-P
09:14:57  <Eddi|zuHause> well, PSUs tend to have a bad conversion ratio when not at full load
09:15:22  <dihedral> there is a psu out there with 85% efficiency
09:16:46  <planetmaker> andythenorth: my dictionary doesn't have that :-(
09:17:11  <Terkhen> wikipedia redirects me to "blacksmith"
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09:21:18  <Eddi|zuHause> ... so does 430W suffice or should i rather go for 500W?
09:21:22  <andythenorth>
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09:45:59  <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause, depends on how much wattage all your components draw.
09:46:25  <ccfreak2k> Also the "conversion ratio" is power factor.
09:46:47  <ccfreak2k> Sometimes just shortened to "x% efficiency at y watts".
10:29:32  * dihedral enjoys generics in java ^^
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10:38:10  <ccfreak2k> If you're feeling adventurous, you could poke at the wires in your PSU with an ammeter.
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10:40:20  * Zuu "enjoys" making a powerpoint presentation :-p
10:41:23  <dihedral> ouch
10:45:25  <planetmaker> keynotes :-P
10:46:01  <planetmaker> which reminds me... I need to prepare my justification to visit SmatZ :-P
10:46:07  <planetmaker> damn
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10:53:22  <LunarWolf> hi
10:53:30  <LunarWolf> a neded help
10:53:49  <LunarWolf> I serrching graf ECS vector
10:54:12  <Alberth> isn't that on bananas?
10:54:40  <Alberth> (main menu -> online content -> type "ECS" in the search box
10:54:43  <Alberth> )
10:55:29  <planetmaker> it is
10:55:45  <LunarWolf> some graphics will not work because the lack of any ECS Vector
10:56:40  <Alberth> I don't understand that, what does "some graphics will not work" mean ?
10:57:19  <Alberth> perhaps post a picture at some imagebin ?
10:58:45  <Terkhen> LunarWolf: the vectors have to be added to the newgrf list in order
10:59:13  <LunarWolf> sry
10:59:55  <Terkhen> I don't remember which order, though :)
11:00:08  <VVG> afaik, town vector should first one out of all vectors, all others come after it
11:00:16  <VVG> should be*
11:00:26  <Terkhen> town -> basic -> all others IIRC
11:00:27  <Eddi|zuHause> they should be sorted by grf-id
11:00:46  <Eddi|zuHause> and you probably shouldn't add all of them
11:01:20  <LunarWolf> Error when booting graph: ECS Town vector must be loaded before ECS Agricultural vector.
11:01:35  <VVG> read up a few lines back
11:02:25  <Alberth> from the main menu, open the newgrf window, click on 'ECS town' and click at 'move up' until it is the first of the ECS grfs
11:03:26  <LunarWolf> omg
11:03:56  <LunarWolf> landing sequence
11:04:00  <LunarWolf> thanx
11:04:22  <VVG> wasn't it obvious from that error message?
11:05:09  <LunarWolf> yes, rearranged, and it's working
11:05:56  <planetmaker> VVG: that involves reading!
11:06:02  <Terkhen> :)
11:06:37  <planetmaker> reading comprehension. A skill ... vastly overestimated in default users
11:06:42  <planetmaker> (sorry, I'm mean, I know)
11:07:20  <LunarWolf> PS. For me, joined the college and doing something to expedite the 32bpp graphics
11:07:31  <planetmaker> I guess for the same reason all other red warning boxes in OpenTTD are also ignored. Click. Oh was there something?
11:07:37  <planetmaker> Never seen a thing...
11:07:46  <dihedral> interesting - selling a share on a network game, executes the CmdSellShare command twice...?
11:08:10  <Alberth> one for test, and one for doing?
11:08:31  <dihedral> ah - crap :-D
11:08:38  <planetmaker> but... does it need testing?
11:08:55  <planetmaker> buying: yes. But selling?
11:08:59  <Rubidium> selling shares you don't have?
11:09:03  <Alberth> you may not have enough money :p
11:09:06  <planetmaker> of course :-P
11:09:09  <Rubidium> selling shares in non-existant companies?
11:09:18  <dihedral> then i was sitting at the wrong line with my function call :-D
11:09:25  <planetmaker> Rubidium: it would even be realistic! :-P
11:09:42  <dihedral> planetmaker, shh, don't mention that word - you'll unleash the tiger
11:09:47  <planetmaker> trallala :-)
11:10:07  <planetmaker> dihedral: no worries. I'm plonked by that realism person ;-)
11:10:14  <Terkhen> it's safe unless you say it three times :P
11:10:38  <LunarWolf> I have done: OTTD LightSetup for maya 2011, anyone wants?
11:10:42  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: all 'Cmd's have an "if (DC_EXEC)" block
11:11:09  <dihedral> just noticed :)
11:11:11  <dihedral> thanks though
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11:13:39  <LunarWolf> How to test everything, then I'll throw tutorial and forum.
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11:14:13  <dihedral> talking of which - where would you like documentation Rubidium ? :-P
11:14:18  <fjb> Moin
11:17:49  <LunarWolf> Fish + Port 32bpp incoming :P
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11:32:55  <andythenorth> ^ ??
11:35:48  <LunarWolf> working on a graphic, This will in turn - Fish, Pord+addons, all ECS
11:36:15  <LunarWolf> Port*
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11:36:41  <andythenorth> I didn't 100% understand that, but nvm
11:36:44  <Alberth> 32bpp support for newgrf?
11:41:23  * andythenorth wonders how many colours of church there are in default graphics
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11:42:02  * andythenorth thinks a thatched roof on a forge might not be the wisest idea
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11:43:07  * Hirundo guesses there is only one church sprite + a bunch of recolour sprites
11:48:09  <fjb> What are "lickable pixels"?
11:48:56  <andythenorth> it's a phrase borrowed from Steve Jobs and highly not original :|
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11:50:45  * andythenorth wonders if Lunarwolf is recreating Fish ships in Maya
11:51:02  <andythenorth> that would be....interesting.  As most of the ships are based on 3D renders :P
11:51:08  <fjb> But what is the meaning of that phrase?
11:51:39  <andythenorth> they look so tasty you want to lick the screen
11:53:25  <fjb> Oh no...
11:56:04  <planetmaker> andythenorth: three colours
11:56:09  <planetmaker> using re-colour property
11:56:20  <andythenorth> thanks
11:57:15  <fjb> Hm, now there are at leat three railway track sets. Which one to use?
11:57:27  <planetmaker> fjb: of course swedish rails :-P
11:57:48  <fjb> Ah, yes, I would have guessed that answer. :)
11:57:54  <planetmaker> </shameless plug> ;-)
11:58:06  <planetmaker> it really depends what you want
11:58:17  <planetmaker> nutracks has A LOT of track types
11:58:24  <planetmaker> se rails just re-defines rail an e-rail
11:58:33  <fjb> So what is the diffenrence in this sets?
11:58:37  <planetmaker> the uk tracks modify the rails to narrow gauge
11:58:51  <fjb> Hm, that answers ma question.
11:58:52  <planetmaker> metro tracks add a 3rd rail. Usable with some train sets
11:59:00  <planetmaker> trans rapid is clear, too
11:59:09  <planetmaker> shanghai maglev is another maglev. Nicer looking
11:59:16  <planetmaker> but those were at least 5 :-P
11:59:42  <planetmaker> Swedish rails offer the best snow support and nice fences ;-)
11:59:45  <fjb> Which of the track sets use the new track set feature? SE tracks, Nutracks and British tracks I guess.
11:59:49  <planetmaker> and: nicest depots :-P
11:59:57  <planetmaker> all of those
12:00:11  <planetmaker> others I didn't consider
12:00:12  <fjb> That is nice.
12:00:29  <Ammler> the special feature of nutracks are different speeds, don't know, if the other support such things
12:00:30  <planetmaker> others are not "worth it anymore" ;-)
12:00:43  <planetmaker> I think the others don't
12:00:57  <planetmaker> besides, you can use nutracks + se rails in parallel
12:01:04  <Ammler> but the graphics might not be complete or perfect ;-)
12:01:07  <planetmaker> but then you'll have the se rails replace the slowest track type
12:01:12  * fjb hopes for a road set feature.
12:01:34  <planetmaker> peter1138 seems to be in hiatus :-(
12:02:27  <fjb> May be he comes back when it gets cold outside.
12:04:53  <fjb> The new NewGRF window is great.
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12:08:23  <fjb> Is UKRS2 playable yet?
12:08:46  <Chris_Booth> UKRS2 is on bananas so i would assume so
12:08:55  <Chris_Booth> was it ever unplayable?
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12:10:55  <fjb> With only some early vehicles I considered it not really playable, only for testers.
12:11:25  <Chris_Booth> fjb that is true it is not complete. it is only a tester
12:11:48  <Chris_Booth> it is not a full UKRS replacement yet
12:12:01  <Chris_Booth> and has no UKRS release date at the moment
12:12:09  <Chris_Booth> this can all be found on pikkas webiste
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12:14:17  <fjb> FIRS and FISH are also not complete but really playable. That is why I asked.
12:16:09  <Chris_Booth> I understand what you are saying fjb. Its a shame you can't use UKRS + UKRS2
12:16:19  <Chris_Booth> then have the nice new sprite for the engines upto 1970
12:16:28  <Chris_Booth> then just the old prites after that
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12:33:41  <Eddi|zuHause> use it with daylength x4 or x8, then you can have long lasting games until 1970
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13:06:02  <fjb> Quak frosch123
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13:07:39  <frosch123> moin fjb :)
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13:21:24  <frosch123> "Froshc, really u are the game developer?? I love you work!!" <- lol
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13:22:10  <SmatZ> :D
13:22:11  <psorek> hi
13:22:22  <psorek> when can i get
13:22:32  <SmatZ> nice to hear that, frosch123 :)
13:22:35  <psorek> rpm pack of openttd 1.0.4?
13:22:41  <Terkhen> :)
13:22:58  <frosch123> SmatZ: in case you haven't seen it
13:22:59  <Terkhen> hi psorek
13:23:09  <SmatZ> :)
13:23:36  <psorek> hi
13:23:41  <psorek> not -rc1
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13:24:34  <frosch123> afaik we do not have rpms, only deb and tgz-ile archives
13:25:10  <frosch123> *tgz-like
13:25:12  <Amis> Hello!
13:25:49  <Terkhen> hello Amis
13:26:20  <Amis> When starting a new game if I set no. of industries to none will no industries be constructed during gameplay?
13:26:44  <SmatZ> Amis: Alberth is working on a patch that will do that, I think
13:27:10  <andythenorth> quak
13:27:10  <Amis> But now it just means I start without industries and later theyll show up
13:27:13  <Amis> right?
13:27:33  <Terkhen> yes
13:27:39  <Amis> Thank you
13:28:02  <heffer> Ammler: will there be a 0.3.1 of opengfx soonish? or should i just patch in my spec file the makefile until 0.3.1 is out?
13:28:36  <Ammler> planetmaker: ^
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13:29:17  <Ammler> afaik, the "issues" are fixed in nightly
13:29:54  <Ammler> except the md5 test
13:30:05  <Ammler> which never was working :-)
13:30:12  <andythenorth> frosch123: how do I forbid a layout but allow the construction routine to try another one?
13:30:48  <frosch123> ottd always tries all layouts
13:30:52  <andythenorth> if I return anything but 0400 to cb 28 the construction will fail
13:31:02  <frosch123> it starts at a random one and then tries all layouts
13:31:09  <andythenorth> hmm
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13:31:15  <andythenorth> and when player funds?
13:31:16  <Ammler> heffer: what would you need to patch?
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13:31:36  <Ammler> the install executable or soemthing else?
13:31:52  <frosch123> the same. if there are n layouts it will start a random first one. then it tests layouts random to n, and then 1 to random - 1
13:31:58  <frosch123> the first one succeeding is build
13:32:07  <heffer> yes they are. that's why i'm asking. i'm just not too keen to package a prerelease version for the official repos
13:32:16  <heffer> the make files
13:32:26  <heffer> they give me some errors about sh getting wrong parameters
13:32:33  <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks.  I might test it later.
13:32:47  <andythenorth> it's not how I understood cb28 to work :o
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13:38:43  <Ammler> heffer: I will ask pm to release a bugfix version this weekend...
13:38:55  <heffer> Ammler: that'd be great, thanks
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13:42:42  <Eddi|zuHause>  <frosch123> the same. if there are n layouts it will start a random first one. then it tests layouts random to n, and then 1 to random - 1 <--- that means "easy" to place layouts should be spread out over the layout-spectrum, not clustered. because the first one in the cluster would get preference
13:43:07  <Eddi|zuHause> similar to how ufos annoyingly always land on the same spot
13:43:24  <Eddi|zuHause> if only a small part of the map is covered with rails
13:43:49  <frosch123> yes
13:44:15  <frosch123> though i am not sure whether you can divide the layouts into easy and hard placeable
13:47:27  <Eddi|zuHause> well, if you think ECS tourist centers, then the castle neuschwanstein is hard placeable :)
13:48:06  <frosch123> rather "not even worth trying"-placeable
13:50:45  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: it's easy if you prepare the land :)
13:51:36  <glx> but yes george was crazy when he wrote this newgrf
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13:53:16  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: actually, just code a method to let newgrfs provide a required landshape, so ottd can terraform for them
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14:02:02  <fjb> Aree there track aware bridges yet?
14:05:58  <azaghal> Track-aware?
14:06:48  <fjb> Track type aware.
14:07:24  <Ammler> the railtype sets do overlay their tracks
14:09:42  <fjb> So they are not usable with a bridge set?
14:09:52  <Ammler> they should
14:10:01  <fjb> Ok, I will try.
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14:10:21  <Ammler> it would be better if there are bridge sets without tracks maybe :-)
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14:21:55  <Eddi|zuHause> make one ;)
14:22:05  <Eddi|zuHause> TBRS could use an update
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14:36:11  <fjb> Oh opengfs has hay bales now. :-)
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14:39:17  <fjb> And FIRS has big red somethings...
14:40:03  <frosch123> also blue ones iirc :)
14:40:58  <fjb> Only found the red ones yet. Now looking for the blue.
14:42:08  <fjb> Oh, fishing grounds. Didn't I see some sailing ships on the forum some days ago?
14:42:56  <fjb> Found a kind of purple something.
14:51:44  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the smithery...
14:52:04  <Eddi|zuHause> which accepts iron ore
14:52:09  <Eddi|zuHause> which is a huge scandal!
14:52:46  <Eddi|zuHause> (according to HIM)
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15:07:03  <fjb> Hm? Scandal?
15:08:26  <Eddi|zuHause> well... you know HIM ;)
15:08:32  <fjb> Windmills!
15:09:04  <fjb> Which of the HIMs I'm now thinking of?
15:09:22  <fjb> The ECS inventor?
15:09:34  <__ln__> The HIM that is listed under "German Rock" or something on PS3's VidZone service?
15:09:53  <Eddi|zuHause> HE whose name shall not be mentioned.
15:10:06  <fjb> So German is not all that wrong.
15:10:24  <__ln__> ah, you mean HIM.
15:10:51  <fjb> But why is it a scandal?
15:11:27  <Eddi|zuHause> because a smith consumes raw iron. raw iron is produced from iron ore in foundaries
15:11:34  <Eddi|zuHause> foundries?
15:11:37  <Eddi|zuHause> whatever
15:11:50  <Eddi|zuHause> it's HUGELY unrealistic
15:14:05  <fjb> The whole game is unrealistic...
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15:18:31  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: did I miss something?  I was away until just now :P
15:18:47  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: nothing to see here. move along :p
15:19:44  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I did a little historical research
15:20:06  <andythenorth> it's quite plausible for a bloomsmith to both smelt the ore, produce the basic iron blooms, and then work it
15:20:31  <andythenorth> in 1600s north america one smith might have run the whole process
15:24:25  <Eddi|zuHause> well... HIS research on pre-industrial iron processing, iron foundry was usually done close to an iron and wood source (e.g. in 1475 almost 40.000 people in the Oberpfalz [Bavaria] were employed directly or indirectly in iron foundry), while smith-able iron was produced in "hammer-works" usually found along rivers.
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15:26:25  <fjb> Will there be a version of the sand pit with shovel equiped people? :-)
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15:27:18  <andythenorth> fjb: maybe :P
15:27:27  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ask him if the track gauge is accurate
15:28:16  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly interesting/boring/micromanagement nightmare twist to industry production: large industries from ~1840 to ~1980 need large amounts of people to work properly
15:28:28  <fjb> He cheated with the speed of one EMU in his famous train set...
15:28:54  <Eddi|zuHause> he cheated with more things than that ;)
15:29:16  <fjb> That is the most obvious.
15:29:59  <fjb> Number of pasengers is the other.
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16:00:08  * andythenorth is puzzled
16:00:38  <andythenorth> frosch123: do the return values for this look correct?
16:00:38  <andythenorth>
16:04:30  <frosch123> yes
16:05:41  <andythenorth> ok good
16:05:54  <andythenorth> I always have trouble with things where 00 has to be written as 80 :P
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16:06:21  <andythenorth> thanks
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16:07:46  <Eddi|zuHause> need a macro "CALLBACK_RESULT(\w4)" that automatically sets bit 15... but that can't be done with the preprocessor...
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16:14:28  <andythenorth> frosch123: I tested cb28 with some layouts not allowed
16:14:39  <andythenorth> fails :(
16:14:47  <andythenorth> player has to keep trying to build
16:15:49  <andythenorth> one possibility is that I've done it wrong :P
16:17:42  <dihedral> for the german speaking folk out there:
16:20:23  * andythenorth reads source
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16:24:05  <Eddi|zuHause> ok. that does it. /me puts dihedral on The List
16:24:17  <Chris_Booth> the list Eddi|zuHause ?
16:24:21  <dihedral> the ignore list
16:24:29  <dihedral> looks like Eddi totally did not like the link
16:24:30  <Eddi|zuHause> not the list
16:24:32  <Eddi|zuHause> The List
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16:24:41  <Chris_Booth> ooh poor dihedral
16:24:45  <Chris_Booth> I will talk to you dih
16:25:04  <dihedral> as if Eddi|zuHause talked that much with me :-P
16:25:17  <Chris_Booth> lol then its no big loss
16:25:31  <Chris_Booth> I like The List. I am lots of Lists
16:25:42  <andythenorth> brr
16:25:51  * andythenorth looks for code that handles cb28
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16:26:07  <dihedral> shame though - Eddi|zuHause usually has good thoughts regarding patches ^^
16:26:38  <Chris_Booth> dihedral: you are on my List (The coolest person on openTTD list)
16:26:48  * fjb wonders if Eddi|zuHause once had a horn at his nose...
16:27:02  <dihedral> Chris_Booth, that kinda sounds scary
16:27:09  <frosch123> andythenorth: CmdBuildIndustry
16:27:38  <Chris_Booth> Yeah I didn't word that very well did I
16:27:47  <dihedral> nope :-P
16:27:55  <Chris_Booth> maybe I will think befor I type creepy messages next time
16:28:07  <Chris_Booth> otherwise I will end up on Your List
16:28:12  * dihedral wonders if Eddi|zuHause ignored * :-P
16:28:24  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
16:28:25  <Eddi|zuHause> :P
16:28:29  <dihedral> :-D
16:28:42  <robotboy> gmorning
16:28:49  * robotboy is off to bed now
16:29:00  <Chris_Booth> Fuck just superglued my hand to my shoe
16:29:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think your problem is the creepy wording :p
16:29:38  <dihedral> lol
16:29:41  <Chris_Booth> lol nor do i now
16:29:55  <Chris_Booth> don't ever trust a stupent with glue