Config
Log for #openttd on 6th October 2010:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:20  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
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00:05:55  <Carci> Graaaah, I haaaaate the 'minimum vehicle income' rating. :/
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00:14:01  <Eddi|zuHause> just don't care about it.
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00:14:32  <Carci> But it's keeping me from having a perfect rating!
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00:23:52  <avdg> carci: just sell the trains with no income
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00:25:10  <fjb> That is fun if they are part of a feeder system.
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00:27:54  <Carci> What fjb said >.<
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01:57:33  <TruePikachu> Ummm...
01:58:34  <TruePikachu> dbg: [misc] Drawing string using newlines with DrawString instead of DrawStringMultiLine. Please notify the developers of this: []
01:59:02  <TruePikachu> ^^ got 9 of them from forked output
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03:35:46  <GhostlyDeath> Is SourceForge slow for anyone else?
03:40:41  <G> how crazy am I to think it'd be nice to commission a rail line, basically what I'm thinking is, using the rail tool you can draw out your proposed route, even reserve it/purchase the land when you do so, but only build the tracks when you have enough money
03:42:20  <GhostlyDeath> What if you can't afford the purchasing of land?
03:43:22  <G> well it'd still happen but if a competitor blocks your route, then it fails as-is
03:43:31  <G> that or even sketch a route would be nice
03:44:08  <GhostlyDeath> Optimal route: Least cost, most speed for trains, least distance
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03:45:58  <G> nah can't take the thinking out, but long distance routes get weird when creating them manually from both ends
03:46:33  <GhostlyDeath> I got an idea
03:47:16  <GhostlyDeath> In the yaer 1994, allow the usage of a ring that creates a wormhole between two points
03:47:30  <GhostlyDeath> Allowing for one way instant travel to another point
03:48:17  <GhostlyDeath> Time to start coding
03:49:29  <G> haha
03:49:49  <G> but anyway, I'm more interested in people saying how crazy I am for thinking it'd be a good idea at this point :)
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04:00:10  <Carci> :p
04:01:21  <Carci> Well, I got up to 1,000 points... let's see if I can get the timing right to keep it at that as I cross into 2050
04:01:29  <Carci> That's when it records the points, correct? >>
04:01:50  <fjb> Tunnels are wormholes in TTD world.
04:12:48  <Carci> I... win... I think. xD
04:19:45  <TruePikachu> +3,486
04:19:54  <TruePikachu> *103
04:20:14  <TruePikachu> I got 3,486 off of one delivery
04:20:45  <TruePikachu> A half trainlength delivery from my factory uberstation
04:21:11  <TruePikachu> ~10 tiles of goods (12 tile train)
04:21:50  * TruePikachu an't wait to get a full-length set up
04:21:53  <Carci> Hehehh.
04:21:55  <TruePikachu> *can't
04:22:12  <TruePikachu> It is funny how a 12 tile long train fits in 1 depot
04:22:17  <Carci> I was getting 0,000 regularly form my train deliveries cross-continent from one factory-town to another factory-town.
04:22:32  <TruePikachu> This was a short-ish distance
04:22:36  <Carci> Ohhh.
04:23:06  <TruePikachu> @calc 140+80
04:23:06  <DorpsGek> TruePikachu: 220
04:23:08  <Carci> I was a billionare at the end. :D
04:23:12  <TruePikachu> ^^ that many tiles
04:23:39  <TruePikachu> I death feed factories
04:24:11  <TruePikachu> How far for you was "cross-continent"?
04:25:15  <Carci> It was... well, it was a 1024 wide map... and I was about 3/4 of it.
04:25:26  <Carci> It wasn't the furthest I could possibly go, but it was a long haul.
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04:26:59  <TruePikachu> Lol, I get ~0,000 off of ~250 tiles; you got ~0,000 off of ~640 (?) tiles
04:27:17  <TruePikachu> AND I just needed to clone that train a couple times
04:27:35  <Carci> It might have been more. I don't remember >.>
04:27:46  <TruePikachu> (station has dedicated space for 4 of these trains, of DOUBLE length)
04:27:59  <Carci> Nice :D
04:28:06  <Carci> My station was, hmm...
04:28:13  <TruePikachu> My destination station is limiting the size to 12 tiles
04:28:29  <Carci> I think it was six wide or so, by 7 long.
04:28:35  <TruePikachu> Eventually, I'll double the freight platforms to the full 24 tiles
04:28:54  <Carci> Both stations were, and they had waiting bays for an equal number of trains as they'd fit.
04:29:08  <TruePikachu> Imagine a 24 tile goods train keeping ahead of traffic :D
04:30:03  <TruePikachu> This train travels 65mph, but I can up the speed if I reduce car capacity (flatcars have lower speed limits than boxcars in NARSv2)
04:30:15  <TruePikachu> (and higher capacity)
04:30:20  <TruePikachu> (it seems...)
04:30:47  <TruePikachu> I may be able to up it to 80mph, the caboose max speed
04:30:50  <Carci> Heheheh.
04:30:54  <Carci> Hmmm...
04:31:13  <TruePikachu> BUT I don't want to pull out boxcars until I get better capacity off them
04:31:29  <Carci> So, it's very easy to sink a 512x1024 map with about 0,000,000
04:31:59  <TruePikachu> Lol, 12 tile train going at 38mph
04:32:09  <Carci> Heh xD
04:32:10  <TruePikachu> (38mph is depot depart speed)
04:32:51  <TruePikachu> Oops...blocking mainline traffic (another 12 tile train)
04:33:16  <TruePikachu> (+ 5 PAX that were caught behind the other 12 tile's 65mph)
04:33:53  <Carci> Uhoh
04:35:18  <TruePikachu> Lol, after the depot train left, the 12 tile is pulling past the junction, and next in line is another 12 tile coming from depot ... expect heavy delays
04:37:21  <TruePikachu> Lol, after that line of 3 12 tile trains, there is an 8 tile crossing mainline at 17 mph (I think I need more power there)
04:37:41  <TruePikachu> In an evil X's longest path with long block
04:37:43  <Carci> Just maybe :P
04:38:05  <TruePikachu> These trains are hilarious right now
04:38:55  <trebuchet> i fucking love trains choooo chooooo
04:39:44  <TruePikachu> KDW factory has 675 crates of goods waiting - a 12 tile holds 484 - clones were really needed
04:41:24  <TruePikachu> Uhh...I might need MORE clones...
04:44:14  <TruePikachu> Lol, factory in KWD closing (not mine, though)
04:44:24  <TruePikachu> *KDW
04:44:35  <TruePikachu> *actually, all KWD
04:44:44  <Carci> Wait a second...
04:44:50  * TruePikachu waits 1 second
04:44:54  <TruePikachu> Now what?
04:45:01  <Carci> Why do I have no loan, no structures, and I'm still getting charged 0 per year of 'other' fees?
04:45:27  <TruePikachu> That's just general office upkeep
04:45:39  <Carci> Ah, alright *shrug*
04:46:06  <TruePikachu> There is always a flat 0/yr in other for that
04:46:16  <TruePikachu> Actually, /mon
04:46:23  <Carci> *nod*
04:46:51  <TruePikachu> One person at the forum thought it was employee salaries
04:47:14  <TruePikachu> If they paid all their employees a total of /mon...
04:47:28  <TruePikachu> STRIKE!!!
04:47:39  <Carci> Hahahh.
04:47:49  <TruePikachu> You can actually search for the thread
04:47:58  <TruePikachu> It is quite funny
04:51:00  <TruePikachu> Lol @ this farm: 108 grain, 12 livestock
04:51:37  <Carci> Heh, sounds like all the ones I had.
04:52:03  <Carci> Was really annoying, actually. ended up having to sell off a lot of my livestock trains because they were dinging me with negative income, and I was trying to get the 1,000 points.
04:52:15  <TruePikachu> Lol @ this other farm: 117 grain 6 livestock
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04:54:13  <TruePikachu> Untouched (but not for long) farm: 99G 162L
04:54:51  * TruePikachu hooks it up to the uberfactory
04:55:06  <TruePikachu> Wait, too far :(
04:55:11  <Carci> Oooh
04:55:17  <Carci> Too far?
04:56:07  <TruePikachu> Yes; over 200 tiles from my current mainline
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04:56:27  * TruePikachu goes to try to make steel and more goods
04:56:41  <TruePikachu> Steel platforms for uberstation are 6 tiles long
04:56:49  <TruePikachu> *uberfactory
04:57:21  <TruePikachu> Grain 12, livestock 18, goods 24
04:57:45  <Carci> Ooh.
04:57:55  <Carci> Does it need all that? >.>
05:01:05  <TruePikachu> That is actually due to the structural design of the station
05:01:41  * TruePikachu will eventually post it to the Wiki
05:01:57  <TruePikachu> It is being very efficient
05:02:13  <Carci> *nos*
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05:13:10  <TruePikachu> O_o 12 tile livestock trains off of the 162L
05:18:49  <TruePikachu> ^^ Lol @ how much speed that train lost climbing a mountain with full load
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05:19:06  <TruePikachu> 1mph/60mph
05:19:25  <TruePikachu> (it was going 59mph)
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05:26:07  <TruePikachu> (on the mountain, it went 59)
05:28:34  <TruePikachu> Lol, that train just pulled profit from a hat
05:29:30  <TruePikachu> It was < -,000 for the year so far, and on Dec. 31, it delivered and got > ,000
05:29:45  <TruePikachu> (for year)
05:32:34  <__ln__> what newgrf has trains with hats?
05:43:10  <planetmaker> good morning
05:43:27  <planetmaker> (but that's no newgrf name to my knowledge ;-) )
05:44:08  <__ln__> morgen
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06:16:11  <dihedral> morning
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09:46:53  <Eddi|zuHause> 562% CPU!
09:48:01  <peter1138> How many cores?
09:48:46  <Eddi|zuHause> 6, obviously
09:49:38  <__ln__> isn't 4 cores enough for 562 if they have hyper threading®
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10:10:09  <GecK> hi everybody
10:13:30  *** beyre83 [5c1aad13@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
10:13:51  <beyre83> hello :)
10:15:50  <beyre83> well i dont know if you remember, my dell laptop with the Broken Screen, just called dell again today and they have repaird the computer, and are shiping it back to me, should arive today or tommrow, so i guess it was a problem caused by waranty :)
10:25:19  <planetmaker> I never heart that a warranty _caused_ a hardware problem
10:25:35  <planetmaker> s/heart/heard/
10:27:00  <Noldo> yes, it's the ending of warranty that causes them
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10:27:58  <SpComb> covered
10:28:18  <SpComb> or they'll send the inovice back along with the laptop
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10:28:49  <planetmaker> you spoilt it, SpComb ;-)
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10:40:43  <icmlfy> ohai
10:50:14  <planetmaker> hi
10:52:59  <Fixer> hello guys, sorry if that asked before but reliability of last vehicles will go down even after 2050?
10:54:35  *** icmlfy [~icursemyl@ip4da73f5f.direct-adsl.nl] has quit []
10:59:10  <SmatZ> Fixer: I think it won't, else all vehicles would be unusable after 2070
11:00:16  <SmatZ> 	/* Determine last engine aging year, default to 2050 as previously. */
11:00:18  <SmatZ> 	_year_engine_aging_stops = 2050;
11:00:26  <SmatZ> 		_year_engine_aging_stops = max(_year_engine_aging_stops, ymd.year);
11:00:44  <SmatZ> so with some engines, the year when aging stops can be moved further
11:02:05  <peter1138> Some? _year_engine_aging_stops seems rather global to me.
11:03:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i think he meant adding a newgrf engine that appears later
11:03:29  <SmatZ> yeah... what I wanted to say, when there is one engine with intro_date + lifelength/2 > 2050, then aging of all engines will stop at the later date
11:04:12  <peter1138> *nod*
11:04:29  <Fixer> Eddi|zuHause:
11:04:38  <Fixer> Eddi|zuHause: no just standart vehicles*
11:05:19  <Eddi|zuHause> Fixer: in that case, the answer is "no"
11:05:34  <Fixer> thank you
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11:17:47  <planetmaker> Fixer, for helicopters it won't stop... you'll simply left without ;-)
11:18:01  <planetmaker> they expire before
11:23:04  <Fixer> thank you
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11:35:38  <Fixer> that reliability with breakdowns is funny, i've suddenly noticed it when TIM highest rel. was 30% and my entire network was in smoke :p
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11:37:53  <Wolf01> hello
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12:21:53  <Nite> Hi
12:24:39  <dihedral> Nite!
12:25:13  <Nite> ja?
12:25:30  * andythenorth_ ponders
12:26:08  <andythenorth_> should FIRS sand pit and gravel pit be combined to one industry?
12:26:11  <andythenorth_> irl they could be
12:26:29  <Nite> ah its firs again
12:26:43  <Nite> are there supplies still?
12:27:48  <glx> an industry can supply 2 cargo
12:28:09  <glx> it would make sens to combine sand and gravel
12:28:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: afair you can disable the effect of supplies
12:28:27  <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: no
12:28:32  <Nite> ah very nice
12:29:27  <planetmaker> andythenorth_: yes, it'd actually make sense
12:29:33  <planetmaker> and one less industry.
12:29:43  <planetmaker> which at the current state would not be bad.
12:29:51  <andythenorth_> it would mean a lot of sad graphical work for me :)
12:30:04  <planetmaker> Do you think?
12:30:07  <andythenorth_> yes
12:30:15  <planetmaker> it'd just mean to creat a few transition tiles ;-)
12:30:24  <planetmaker> half grey, half yellow ;-)
12:30:30  <andythenorth_> :P
12:30:34  <Eddi|zuHause> gravel is not harvested from a water-filled pit.
12:30:39  <andythenorth_> yes it is
12:30:39  <Rubidium> 13. ``Perfection (in design) is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but rather when there is nothing more to take away.''
12:30:42  <planetmaker> it is
12:30:42  <Eddi|zuHause> but i said that before...
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12:31:14  <Nite> (all those "stone" pits sometimes fill with water)
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12:31:27  <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: there is a plan to remove supplies in a future edition of FIRS
12:31:31  <andythenorth_> if that helps any
12:31:44  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: i have no problem with supplies
12:31:45  <glx> andythenorth_: and with CB 14C you could still have sand only or gravel only for some of them
12:32:03  <Nite> well disabling also helps - so you have the choice - which ist good in many cases
12:32:25  <Chris_Booth> andythenorth_: why remove supplies? can't you just have a dissable/enable parameter?
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12:32:40  <andythenorth_> Nite: you prefer the default industry production increase behaviour?
12:32:42  <Chris_Booth> IMO supplies add an extra layer and are fun
12:33:15  <planetmaker> Chris_Booth: the plan is to remove them as an _option_
12:33:22  <planetmaker> not principally
12:33:31  <andythenorth_> in one or more economies
12:33:37  <Chris_Booth> ooh ok
12:33:43  <andythenorth_> it will mean also gutting quite a few industry chains
12:33:47  <andythenorth_> as they'll be pointless
12:33:51  <planetmaker> :-)
12:33:55  <andythenorth_> so it needs some careful thought :)
12:34:03  <andythenorth_> or we get drunk and just fix it one evening
12:34:11  <planetmaker> primary and secondary. We had that. Two industry types. Maybe even only one ;-)
12:34:30  <Chris_Booth> andythenorth_: you could still have supplies just have them sent to towns rather than industies
12:34:36  <Chris_Booth> as a seond type of goods
12:34:44  <andythenorth_> got building materials for that :)
12:34:45  <Eddi|zuHause> that'd be silly...
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12:34:55  <andythenorth_> 'farm supplies' -> town seems odd no?
12:35:02  <Chris_Booth> Eddi|zuHause: why would it me
12:35:05  <Chris_Booth> be
12:35:19  <Chris_Booth> andythenorth_: no not realy, you can buy tractors in towns
12:36:00  <Rubidium> andythenorth_: seems quite normal for actually not so long ago
12:36:01  <Eddi|zuHause> anybody can open this page? http://avidemux.org/admWiki/index.php?title=Scripting
12:36:17  <Nite> ("little pig little pig let me in - to the openttdcoop welcome server" - btw)
12:36:48  <Chris_Booth> what Nite?
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12:37:15  <Chris_Booth> Eddi|zuHause: works for me
12:37:33  <Chris_Booth> ooh it has qt on it
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12:40:10  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: I get the main page
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12:41:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i got lots of timeouts, but now it seems to work. the real link should be http://avidemux.org/admWiki/doku.php?id=using:scripting i guess it was outdated
12:41:51  <glx> yes found this page too, and no timeout problem
12:41:54  <andythenorth_> pros for changing to sand & gravel pit: (1) it will need more vehicles routing to the industry, making things more complicated
12:42:01  <andythenorth_> (2) fewer industries on minimap
12:42:11  <glx> (1) is fun
12:42:13  <andythenorth_> (3) more chance of getting a source of both sand and gravel on hilly maps
12:42:30  <andythenorth_> ^ currently a hilly map has very low chance of sand and/or gravel and/or clay
12:42:42  <andythenorth_> against: (1) I have to redraw stuff
12:42:48  <andythenorth_> (2) it's more changes to cargo chains
12:43:14  <andythenorth_> I guess I'm the only one who cares about redrawing :o
12:43:33  <glx> well you can keep the current drawing and add one for both (if you use CB 14C)
12:43:35  <Chris_Booth> what ever happened to TAI?
12:44:11  <andythenorth_> CB 14C is discouraged as very annoying to players :)
12:44:14  <glx> like at least one combo then possible sand only or gravel only
12:45:18  <planetmaker> andythenorth_, it's IMHO a definitive go. No disadvantage
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12:45:58  <planetmaker> (combining gravel + sand)
12:46:32  <planetmaker> Hm.. CB14...  Actually it might be fun to have such option :-)
12:46:52  <planetmaker> Like... Prospecting mine. you find coal or iron or bauxite or sand or gravel ;-)
12:47:03  <glx> hehe
12:47:07  <andythenorth_> I'd (probably) enjoy that
12:47:13  <andythenorth_> it could be called 'random mine'
12:47:16  <planetmaker> May the if ... then ... else clauses have fun ;-)
12:47:30  <Chris_Booth> you would need to include oil in it aswell
12:47:51  <planetmaker> It'd be fun, yes. Problem: scenario editor or players wanting / needing a specific resource
12:47:55  <planetmaker> yes, oil, too
12:48:17  <glx> then they don't build "random mine"
12:48:17  <Chris_Booth> once again can be disable for players who are wimps
12:48:22  <andythenorth_> planetmaker: just leave the other mines in place, add a new one 'random mine'
12:48:30  <planetmaker> hm... :-)
12:48:45  <peter1138> Then you fire it up in Minecraft...
12:48:50  <planetmaker> Interesting idea. And a parameter which enables / disables its probability
12:48:58  <andythenorth_> ach
12:49:09  <andythenorth_> what I should do is finish the biofuel plant and stop dreaming up 'new'
12:49:15  <planetmaker> ach? Sounds too German for your throat ;-)
12:49:17  <andythenorth_> I'll try and do that later
12:49:23  <andythenorth_> I have to drive for an hour soon
12:49:33  <glx> minecraft is time consuming
12:49:43  <Chris_Booth> what is timecraft?
12:49:55  <Chris_Booth> minecraft or what ever
12:50:01  <glx> but now I have torch, I can work at night ;)
12:50:08  <Chris_Booth> loads of people are raving about minecraft
12:50:09  <andythenorth_> I should say...combining sand & gravel just came about as a possible solution to "can't build sand pit / gravel pit" on hilly maps
12:50:17  <andythenorth_> there could be other solutions
12:51:03  <Chris_Booth> andythenorth_: maybe have some indstry that can be built on slopes
12:51:11  <Chris_Booth> but that would need more drawing
12:51:48  <planetmaker> That's for later. Beautification :-)
12:51:55  <planetmaker> (my opinion)
12:51:55  <andythenorth_> it would need a lot of drawing
12:52:08  <andythenorth_> it would need a grid of quarry tiles that can be combined
12:52:16  <andythenorth_> each tile needs 16 slope variations
12:52:17  <planetmaker> but it'd make sense for mines and similar
12:52:23  <andythenorth_> there would need to be minimum 4 tile types
12:52:29  <andythenorth_> more like 9 for decent looks
12:52:38  <andythenorth_> @calc 9*16
12:52:38  <DorpsGek> andythenorth_: 144
12:52:52  <andythenorth_> ^ how many unique tiles I have to draw, and make them all interconnect in a grid
12:53:01  <andythenorth_> is there a cheating way to do it?
12:53:11  <planetmaker> yep ;-)
12:53:18  <planetmaker> colourful boxes :-P
12:53:57  <andythenorth_> night mode?
12:54:02  <andythenorth_> then I just draw flood lights
12:54:11  <andythenorth_> run the whole game in night mode?
12:54:16  <andythenorth_> black + lights
12:54:23  <planetmaker> you'd need to draw 10k sprites then
12:54:38  <andythenorth_> probably worth writing an app to process them
12:54:48  <planetmaker> I'd happily encode those into a night base set just for you, though ;-)
12:55:13  <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: you sometimes have solutions to intricate problems....any idea of a shortcut to make quarry tiles?
12:55:18  <andythenorth_> (slope aware)
12:56:46  <andythenorth_> maybe there's an optical illusion I can use...
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13:07:01  <Belugas> hello
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13:27:04  <Wolf01> hello mr. Belugas
13:34:33  <Nite> afk
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13:47:04  <Belugas> hello sir Wolf01 :)
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14:28:04  * andythenorth_ didn't think of a clever way to do quarries yet
14:28:51  <andythenorth_> I could limit the number of directions
14:29:10  <andythenorth_> no point drawing quarries for back slopes (north / nw / ne facing)
14:29:49  <andythenorth_> I could prevent building on steep slopes too
14:30:29  <planetmaker> just the 4 normal ones, I'd say. And the two front ones with priority
14:30:59  <planetmaker> adding *every* slope is not needed anyway
14:31:31  <andythenorth_> no
14:31:41  <andythenorth_> but more than just the 'normal' ones
14:31:47  <andythenorth_> otherwise placement is near-impossible
14:31:55  <andythenorth_> PBI quarry is hard to build
14:32:46  <planetmaker> any slope would be an improvement. So starting with the easy ones :-)
14:33:06  <andythenorth_> better to start with the hard ones :)
14:33:16  <andythenorth_> then I don't go down a dead end
14:33:45  <andythenorth_> hmm
14:33:55  <andythenorth_> if individual quarry faces are always quite small....
14:33:59  <andythenorth_> that will ease placement
14:39:34  <GhostlyDeath> What about roads that gown down and back up on a slope when built on ground like that?
14:40:05  <GhostlyDeath> You can't move off the road regardless so why bother making it sloped
14:41:08  <andythenorth_> ?
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15:58:25  <Belugas> right... 2 days to find out that the girl clicked on the Print button like a crazy fool until the system crashed....
15:58:44  <Belugas> my fault... i should have known there are still psychopaths on the loose
16:00:22  <Lakie> Heh
16:00:52  <Lakie> Things users do...
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16:02:31  <frosch123> hmm, why is this channel not present on the current xkcd image? i talk most here :p
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16:03:03  <glx> Belugas: like disable button while printing is not finished ?
16:03:12  <Rubidium> frosch123: bias?
16:03:31  <Rubidium> like... what's this facebook thing? or that twitter thing?
16:06:26  <Belugas> glx: it was already th case, just that the whole window should have been disabled for a longer period.  i protected the vital part, thinking it was enought
16:06:41  <glx> hehe
16:06:54  <Belugas> but it's more about what to do after the payment has been processed.
16:07:04  <Belugas> print was only one part of the processes
16:07:31  <Belugas> the other one was invoicing if no more to receive (amount due was 0)
16:07:43  <Belugas> as if this one was not critical enough :S
16:08:00  <planetmaker> frosch123, IRC is present... as a very very tiny island :-)
16:08:22  <planetmaker> also: hello :-)
16:09:02  <frosch123> the great firewall is nice though :)
16:10:31  <davis> great firewall of china
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16:11:25  <planetmaker> yeah :-P
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16:12:31  <planetmaker> but I also like the 'Northern wasteland of unread updates' ;-)
16:18:05  <Rubidium> oh, you mean all those people telling you you've got family you're not aware of?
16:18:50  <planetmaker> I guess it meant those status updates in facebook and similar no-one cares about
16:20:54  <Rubidium> ah, so the "deceased and wants to give you their money"-status updates don't count :(
16:21:06  <Rubidium> I'm definitely receiving more of that latter group
16:21:09  <dihedral> frosch123, i like the "great firewall" :-D
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16:26:01  <Eddi|zuHause> that's not exactly a new name...
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16:42:56  <Chris_Booth> does anyone have the direct number for richard branson (the owner of virgin media) so I can find where he lives and kick him in the ball for his shit internet
16:44:59  <planetmaker> 0800-virgin-media?
16:45:22  <davis> Fan Mail Address:
16:45:22  <davis> Richard Branson
16:45:22  <davis> 120 Campden Hill Road
16:45:22  <davis> London W8 7AR
16:45:22  <davis> UK
16:45:24  <davis> goodluck.
16:48:23  <Eddi|zuHause> for certain values of "fan mail" :p
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17:09:19  <Chris_Booth_> davis maybe I could pay the post man to kick him in the nuts
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17:11:20  <Belugas> butt
17:11:24  <Belugas> not nuts
17:11:35  <Belugas> violent one.
17:11:40  <Belugas> you should be HANG!
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17:44:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20904 /trunk/src/lang/ (italian.txt portuguese.txt romanian.txt ukrainian.txt):
17:44:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:44:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: italian - 2 changes by lorenzodv
17:44:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: portuguese - 2 changes by JayCity
17:44:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: romanian - 2 changes by kkmic
17:44:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 2 changes by Fixer
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18:50:30  <Wolf01> 'nighty night
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18:58:04  <SmatZ> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=50307 that guy deserves certain amount of slapping
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19:01:46  <Booth> ok SmatZ that guy needs a kick in the Nads
19:01:51  <Booth> YAPF is great
19:01:56  <Booth> and I never get lots trains
19:01:56  <dihedral> SmatZ, it is rather odd that someone wants to rewrite a pathfinder and has no idea how the current implementation functions :-P
19:02:07  <dihedral> nor where it is seemingly failing
19:02:18  <Booth> it will be fails with his building
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19:02:28  <dihedral> Booth, it's definately not great for ships :-P
19:02:50  <__ln__> *definitely
19:02:57  <Booth> dihedral: I dont use it for shipd
19:03:02  <dihedral> thanks - i always wonder what i get wrong with that word, __ln__
19:03:02  <Booth> but it never looses trains
19:03:04  <__ln__> you're welcome
19:03:22  <__ln__> *loses
19:03:39  <dihedral> shipd sounds like a daemon :-P
19:05:06  <V453000> andythenorth_: when is going to come the next FIRS release please? :) possibly without the "colourful boxes" instead of industries :)
19:05:53  <joern> SmatZ: slap on, please!
19:06:12  * andythenorth_ doesn't know
19:06:22  <andythenorth_> most of the boxes are gone in the nightly
19:06:31  <dihedral> hihi - it's joern :-)
19:06:34  <dihedral> hello joern
19:06:37  <andythenorth_> simply because most of the industries got removed ;)
19:06:37  <joern> moin
19:08:02  <joern> do you actually have good reasons to call me a blockhead, apart from "well, _I_ never lost any trains in my games"? ;)
19:08:44  <V453000> andythenorth_: thats great :) I would just need it to be on bananas to make it available for public stable servers :p
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19:09:47  <SmatZ> joern: it's not nice to start your post with "YAPF sucks"
19:09:57  <V453000> ye
19:09:59  <V453000> that sox
19:10:05  <SmatZ> joern: also, YAPF DOES cache
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19:10:42  <SmatZ> other things don't have anything in common with YAPF, but rather the way it works
19:10:50  <SmatZ> eg. are not YAPF-specific
19:11:03  <SmatZ> but behave the way you described for all pathfinders
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19:11:53  <joern> SmatZ: my preferred mail client is mutt, because it really does suck less
19:11:57  <dihedral> but one has to grant: it's a bold attmpt
19:12:24  <SmatZ> joern: also you need to be desync-safe, so you might need to save further data in the savegame
19:12:26  <dihedral> i'd love to see a patch :-)
19:12:41  <joern> but maybe that is too much of an insider, even if i tried to explain it
19:12:46  <SmatZ> yup, improvements and even new PF would be welcome :)
19:13:20  <joern> before coming up with a patch, i need to figure out what i'm working against
19:13:22  <Booth> has the right click scrolling changed in 1.0.4?
19:13:38  <Booth> or is the linux scrol different to the windows scroll?
19:13:42  <joern> i.e. the pathfinder API, which i didn't see documented anywhere
19:13:50  <dihedral> joern, it might help to understand what the current pathfinder does
19:14:13  <dihedral> and at which speed
19:14:38  <SmatZ> Booth: it shouldn't have changed, but there might be a bug :) I haven't noticed any change though
19:14:43  <Booth> joern: also why so amny path signals?
19:14:45  <dihedral> a pathfinder for ships would be amazing
19:14:46  <SmatZ> Booth: maybe you have disabled "reverse scroll direction"?
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19:14:57  <Booth> no its the speed of scrolling
19:15:08  <SmatZ> might have somthing to do with mouse sensitivity
19:15:14  <Booth> might do
19:15:20  <Booth> I do have a new mouse
19:15:31  <SmatZ> :p
19:15:35  <Booth> or the VM might be doing something funny to it
19:15:39  <dihedral> my mum thought the picture on her tv got better with a new remote, too
19:15:49  <SmatZ> :(
19:15:59  <dihedral> she thought i was mean to laugh :-D
19:16:11  <SmatZ> :p
19:16:21  <SmatZ> it's not nice to laugh over your mother :p
19:16:43  <dihedral> could not help it :-P
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19:17:07  <dihedral> even had to laugh when she started telling me of a friend of hers, who claimed to have windows 10
19:17:12  <dihedral> at work
19:17:34  <dihedral> and suggested i might not be quite up to date on certain things
19:18:27  *** b_jonas [~x@BC24C4DD.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd
19:18:49  <frosch123> maybe it was windows 1.0
19:19:02  <dihedral> hehe
19:19:11  <b_jonas> the town list should have a way to sort by number of statues
19:19:12  <dihedral> or she has office 10 :-P
19:19:34  <dihedral> or even worse: SuSE 10 :-D
19:19:40  <dihedral> Ubuntu 10.04
19:19:44  <frosch123> solaris 10 ?
19:19:51  <b_jonas> it's hard to hunt statues in towns
19:20:06  <b_jonas> I think I have one in all towns in this game, but I'm not sure
19:20:28  <dihedral> next time you can place a sign with each statue
19:20:38  <andythenorth_> planetmaker: maybe I don't need to recolor the sandpit to make it sand and gravel :) http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/171226
19:20:44  <b_jonas> dihedral: hmm, not bad
19:21:13  <b_jonas> how long do advertising campaigns last?
19:21:22  <dihedral> few months
19:21:27  <dihedral> -> wiki.openttd.org
19:21:33  <b_jonas> http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics doesn't say
19:21:33  <dihedral> might even have the correct info
19:21:45  <b_jonas> it says how much it increases the rating
19:21:57  <b_jonas> "Advertising campaigns give an instant, temporary boost to ratings of nearby stations. The boost will gradually fall down to the calculated rating. "
19:22:02  <dihedral> i'd assume it would last a quarter
19:22:57  <andythenorth_> this one's pretty yellow too: http://www.ntexsand.com/?page_id=312
19:22:58  <b_jonas> thanks
19:23:45  <Booth> linux and windows right click scroll are different
19:23:46  <Booth> wtf
19:24:34  <dihedral> if you change that you'll get a huge amount of complaints ;-)
19:25:51  <Booth> dihedral: I am complaining
19:26:33  <dihedral> one complaint is too little :-P
19:26:46  <frosch123> complaining at dihedral is fine
19:26:52  <Booth> have you seen the difference though?
19:27:07  <dihedral> Booth, most people who play this game do not play on 2 different platforms
19:27:19  <b_jonas> do they scroll in a different direction or different speed?
19:27:26  <Booth> I am not playing on 2 platform
19:27:30  <dihedral> so if you believe it needs fixing, it means either windows or linux 'users' will notice a huge change
19:27:34  <Booth> b_jonas: different speeds
19:27:35  <b_jonas> or is it that they move the mouse on one?
19:27:53  <Booth> windows you drag the mouse
19:27:55  <b_jonas> hmm, can it be an option then?
19:28:02  <dihedral> Booth, different speeds is too vague
19:28:09  <dihedral> as that entirely depends on your system settings
19:28:13  <Booth> I am making a video
19:28:18  <dihedral> and i believe they are different in windows and linux ;-)
19:28:21  <b_jonas> the linux one is better because that's how the original ttd works, right?
19:28:28  <dihedral> WHAT?
19:28:39  <Booth> no windows is orginal ttd
19:28:43  <Booth> click and drag
19:28:44  <dihedral> ...?
19:28:51  <avdg> openttd is a clone of ttd
19:28:56  <dihedral> why would 'original' be dependent on the OS?
19:29:06  <Booth> linux is click and just move the mouse a tiny bit and you have flown of the map
19:29:20  <dihedral> "sorry sir, you have a mac, you cannot play OpenTTD with 'original' settings on that OS"
19:29:35  <dihedral> Booth, like i said - it totally depends on your settings
19:29:36  <Booth> well give me the original setting in linux
19:29:42  <dihedral> i can tell you it's not the case for me here
19:29:56  <dihedral> all os's use the same default settings
19:30:15  <dihedral> i have no clue how you even got to consider openttd to be at fault when it's mouse sensitivity
19:30:29  <Booth> I will show you dihedral
19:30:39  <frosch123> Booth: scrolling might fail in a virtual environment if you have absolute mouse positioning
19:30:43  * SmatZ shows Booth a dihedral
19:30:57  <frosch123> it also fails on tablet-thingies
19:31:07  <frosch123> thus the left-click drag-scrolling was added
19:31:07  <dihedral> Booth, you cannot show me ;-)
19:31:46  <Booth> I can record the screen adn show you
19:31:53  <dihedral> you can demonstrate that sensitivity is different in the one os compared to another
19:32:04  <Booth> no its the way it scrols
19:32:08  <dihedral> however you cannot demonstrate that both systems are using the exact same settings ;-)
19:32:28  <Booth> I can show you that they are for open ttd
19:32:30  <dihedral> + if you are in a vm that makes it even more tricky
19:32:50  <dihedral> then you should run both tests inside a vm
19:33:03  <dihedral> Booth, SYSTEM settings, not OPENTTD settings!
19:33:13  <joern> Booth: goal is find a nice design that maximises throughput.  the path signals are the best i have found so far
19:33:14  <Booth> I know that dihedral
19:33:20  <dihedral> medium on mouse sensitivity in linux and windows can both mean different things ;-)
19:33:30  <joern> dihedral: does anyone actually understand what yapf does?  and if yes, who?
19:33:38  <dihedral> uh
19:33:39  <Rubidium> KUDr
19:33:47  <dihedral> that is a very very good question :-)
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19:33:54  <Booth> no one joern :p
19:33:55  <joern> :)
19:34:38  <joern> all i could find was a pseudo-laymans-description somewhere in the forum
19:34:49  <Rubidium> although I'd argue that the question is phrased incorrectly; YAPF finds the path between the curent location and its destination
19:34:54  <joern> which basically said "A* plus a bunch of optimizations"
19:35:15  <frosch123> joern: there is the trackfollower which creates the graph, then there is the costestimation which compuites costs for the edges. the costs are cached for the edges. then there are a few things that operate on that graph
19:35:37  <Rubidium> joern: it's actually "A*", the optimisations don't change the algorithm, just the cost "lookup"
19:36:30  <frosch123> due to the cache yapf is very fast if a lot of vehicles share their routes
19:36:45  <b_jonas> but does it create a graph with paths collapsed to a single edge?
19:36:47  <joern> frosch123: ok, so the graph is cached, but yapf still has to traverse the complete graph whenever it has to decide which route to pick?
19:36:52  <frosch123> even shippathfinding is faster for yapf if you have a lot of ships on one route
19:36:57  <joern> is that correct?
19:38:03  <frosch123> if there is no route i would expect it to traverse the whole grf. no idea whether there is some limit
19:38:17  <frosch123> if there is a path a* will of course make it not to have expand all nodes
19:38:22  <Rubidium> frosch123: there's a max open node limit
19:38:54  <b_jonas> the problem with this map I'm playing is that the three biggest cities are in the middle of the map forming a single metropolis
19:39:17  <Booth> b_jonas: majic buldozer them then
19:39:28  <Booth> or make an urban rail network
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19:40:18  <b_jonas> it's just that I have to make all passenger services going from there to somewhere else, so they're a bit crowded
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19:42:33  <joern> frosch123: then i guess yapf is halfway between plain a* and my design
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19:51:34  <Chris_Booth> Sorry about all the joining/parting
19:51:39  <Chris_Booth> my VM died
19:52:04  <__ln__> we'll never forgive you
19:52:26  <__ln__> hmm.. wait a minute, it wasn't that serious.
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20:01:53  <b_jonas> these trains are stupid, most of them go on the same lane even though there are two lanes
20:02:01  <b_jonas> or tracks if you call it like that
20:03:54  <b_jonas> just because this track is shorter, you can use the other one too, guys!
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20:06:44  * andythenorth_ wonders if sand and gravel production amounts should be same
20:06:45  <b_jonas> lazy maglevs
20:06:48  <andythenorth_> probably
20:07:11  <b_jonas> uh, where would you use the sand or gravel?
20:09:38  * andythenorth_ doesn't understand scenario editor
20:18:24  <planetmaker> [22:16]	* andythenorth_	[22:07:33] wonders if sand and gravel production amounts should be same <-- random
20:18:42  <andythenorth_> write a ticket...
20:18:43  <andythenorth_> :)
20:18:45  <planetmaker> like default farms :-)
20:20:04  <planetmaker> I guess I'll do that then :-)
20:20:13  <andythenorth_> thanks
20:20:24  <planetmaker> actually... the same could be done for a mixed farm: random production rations of what they produce
20:20:30  <planetmaker> and other farms as well
20:23:15  <planetmaker> done
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20:46:39  * Belugas listens to Led Zep - kashmir
20:46:45  <Belugas> and he feels soooooo goood...
20:46:58  <Belugas> now, if only there was a guitare somewhere...
20:50:41  <frosch123> night
20:50:45  <Rubidium> night frosch123
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20:51:04  <Rubidium> Belugas: yeah, sounds pretty good
20:52:43  <Belugas> i love that song...
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21:06:48  <Belugas> cani have a preview of what the game looks like?
21:07:06  <Belugas> preview of the grfs, preview of the scenarios...
21:07:16  <Belugas> a bit of a loon...
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21:08:27  <Rubidium> Belugas: just look out of the office window; by the way, the game's called: "going to the kid and wife" :)
21:10:12  <Belugas> lol
21:10:14  <Belugas> right :)
21:10:45  <Belugas> i'll leave the previews of both of them to get the real thing instead
21:10:47  <Belugas> night all
21:11:00  <Rubidium> bon appetit
21:11:20  <Belugas> marci ben, toé avec :)
21:11:40  <Belugas> naaa... it's not real french ;)
21:11:43  * Belugas is gone
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23:30:51  <TruePikachu> Can someone manage my comment for FS#4154 ?
23:33:11  <ccfreak2k> Is your comment out of control?
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23:36:49  <TruePikachu> No, I mis set the priority
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23:37:22  <SmatZ> TruePikachu: you can set Priority when opening the task?
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23:46:28  <Eddi|zuHause> only the severity, afair...
23:46:51  <Eddi|zuHause> ... or he actually meant that
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