Log for #openttd on 18th November 2010:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:39  <Samu> transporting 1 tile away rewards me £10
00:01:46  <Samu> 2 tiles £25
00:01:52  <Samu> 3 tiles £40
00:01:57  <Samu> why's that?
00:03:50  <Samu> 4 tiles £50
00:11:27  <glx> check the cargo payment graph
00:12:17  <Samu> I found an error in english string
00:12:29  <Samu> when both full load any cargo and unload all are set
00:12:49  <Samu> the order reads (Unload and wait for any full load)
00:12:57  <Samu> should read
00:13:14  <Samu> any cargo
00:13:19  <Samu> or am I wrong
00:13:21  <Samu> lol confused
00:13:48  <Samu> ok, when I click full load any cargo the order says
00:13:54  <Samu> (full load any cargo)
00:14:00  <Samu> now I click Unload all
00:14:02  <Samu> and it says
00:14:18  <Samu> (unload and wait for any full load)
00:14:26  <Samu> is it correct?
00:15:03  <Samu> trying with full load first now
00:15:20  <Samu> Full load all cargo > (Full load)
00:15:45  <Samu> Full load all cargo + Unload > (Unload and wait for full load)
00:16:05  <Samu> nevermind, false alarm
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00:22:02  <Samu> something else, a vehicle transfering cargo from 1 to 2 and then delivering it from 2 to 3 gains less than a vehicle unloading cargo from 1 to 2 and then delivering from 2 to 3
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00:27:33  <Belugas> dear Samu, i'm sorry if it sounds harsh, but may I suggest you study the game and its mechanisms for a while before actually bringing alarms that are inmost cases false?
00:27:51  <Belugas> you do have some points, sometimes.  but it's not the majority of the time
00:27:57  <Belugas> and... well.. it's poltion...
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00:30:56  <Belugas> pollution... sorry
00:32:51  <Samu> nevermind, it gains the same
00:32:56  <Samu> ya, I'm sorry
00:33:50  <Samu> whoever did the transfer system was a genious
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00:39:43  <Eddi|zuHause> there are three parts to the transfer system. first part is the unload order, which was already part of the original game, the second part is the accounting of transfer credits for partial routes, and the third part is the reduction of said transfer credit to make it less likely the last leg is making huge losses
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00:45:23  <Samu> I used the same vehicle
00:45:41  <Samu> made me believe it was gaining less, but the transfer money is taken into account during the final income
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07:00:33  <Terkhen> good morning
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08:10:58  <planetmaker> moin
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08:36:39  <AveiMil> Hoi!
08:36:50  <AveiMil> Train buffs, is there any elegant solution to this problem?
08:36:51  <AveiMil>
08:37:49  <AveiMil> I want that train coming from the east which has been told to unload at Quartown Heights to sit there and wait until the oil tanker train has left the platform instead of going down south.
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08:49:32  <Ammler> AveiMil: no signals on single lines
08:56:01  <AveiMil> oh wait I think I know waht the problem was, I was missing a piece of track
08:56:12  <AveiMil> so it HAD to go down south to turn lol
09:00:19  <ccfreak2k> Yep.
09:00:26  <ccfreak2k> Couldn't make the turn anyway.
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11:24:10  <planetmaker> <-- oh, this is fun :-)
11:24:22  <planetmaker> thanks Belugas for the nice treatise on realism I can link :-)
11:24:47  <Rubidium> planetmaker: but a tile is 686 kilometer!
11:24:55  <planetmaker> :-)
11:25:21  <planetmaker> You should reply then and rectify my completely off-scale answer :-)
11:30:24  <Rubidium> noes :)
11:30:39  <planetmaker> :-)
11:31:03  <Rubidium> although I'm not 100% sure about the 686 km
11:31:58  <Ammler> what is a Angstrom?
11:32:58  <planetmaker> 10**-10 m
11:33:00  <Ammler> ah, wikipedia knows :-)
11:33:16  <planetmaker> actually it was a Danish scientist
11:33:55  <planetmaker> thus basically the unit I gave was 0.1m
11:34:40  <Ammler> but your initial answer is quite exact already
11:37:03  <planetmaker> Both answers are the same ;-)
11:37:19  <planetmaker> even the link :-P
11:37:40  <planetmaker> after all the question was also exactly the same.
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11:56:47  <Thror> hi
12:03:51  <avdg> hi
12:23:12  <AveiMil> yo
12:23:31  <AveiMil> is there any way to have infrastructure such as rail tracks be apart of your assetts?
12:31:10  <SmatZ> there is an infrastructure sharing patch, if that's what you mean
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12:35:32  <Thror> does anyone know how the function SetFallbackFont works?
12:37:32  <Thror> I'm working in a font settings gui patch and I'm not sure about if that function is working properly
12:41:34  <AveiMil> No, like trains are considered company assetts and increase your company value
12:41:41  <AveiMil> Kind of would like tracks to be the same way
12:45:10  <SmatZ> I think that's not possible
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12:48:41  <planetmaker> [13:36]	<Thror>	does anyone know how the function SetFallbackFont works? <-- that depends. Every OS has its own implementation
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12:49:40  <planetmaker> The idea is such that some string is taken and then it is determined whether all characters of that string have a representation within that font. This is checked as long as a font is found that matches all glyphs within that string
12:50:55  <planetmaker> it's implemented in fontcache.cpp
12:51:09  <SmatZ> I think all strings in openttd (in your lang file) are checked
12:51:21  <planetmaker> probably, yes.
12:52:05  <planetmaker> But it actually has a parameter *str which is checked...
12:52:21  <Thror> so if I'm using a font with no chinese character and i choose chinise languaje should change the font that I'm using?
12:52:29  <planetmaker> sure
12:52:41  <planetmaker> that's what openttd does
12:52:44  <planetmaker> automatically
12:52:53  <SmatZ> if there is such a font :)
12:53:04  <planetmaker> just switch to Chinese and you'll see that another font is chosen.
12:53:09  <planetmaker> Of course, if available :-)
12:53:20  <planetmaker> But I have few (any at all?) language which I cannot show :-P
12:53:20  <Thror> that's not working
12:53:34  <planetmaker> works for me :-P
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12:53:45  <planetmaker> depends on your installed fonts, of course
12:53:47  <SmatZ> maybe openttd can't use any font that has all characters you need
12:53:58  <SmatZ> I think there are some limitations on some OSs, too
12:53:59  <planetmaker> And on *nix whether you have freetype and fontconfig
12:54:06  <Rubidium> SetFallbackFont uses different parameters for different platforms
12:54:12  <planetmaker> ^
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12:54:37  <planetmaker> and sometimes also different versions on the same platform ;-)
12:55:04  <Thror> i'm using arial font, in windows, if i select chinese the font doesent changes but don't show chinises characters
12:55:07  <Rubidium> e.g. windows uses the winlangid, OSX uses the string or iso code depending on OS version, fontconfig uses the iso code and finally if you've got no font "detection" it'll just "fail"
12:55:33  <Thror> if i edit the cfg file and use arial unicode ms it works
12:55:50  <glx> arial != arial unicode ;)
12:56:29  <Thror> i known,  but it supposed that setfallbackfont should do the change
12:56:53  <planetmaker> I guess it just doesn't work perfectly on (your) windows system then
12:57:14  <Thror> i've tested also in ubuntu 10.04
12:57:17  <SmatZ> is SetFallbackFont called when you have manually specified font in the cfg?
12:57:37  <planetmaker> good question
12:58:05  <Rubidium> yes, but it does some magic stuff
12:58:56  <Thror> i'm not sure, i supposed that it's called when i open openttd after change the cfg
12:59:46  <Rubidium> it's called whenever a new language is loaded
13:00:11  <SmatZ> Thror: it should work when you remove the font from your cfg
13:00:16  <Rubidium> and maybe even whenever a language is loaded
13:00:29  <glx> let's set arial and try switching to chinese :)
13:00:40  <SmatZ> glx: it fails for me :)
13:00:50  <SmatZ> but works when I remove the font from cfg
13:00:59  <SmatZ> well, "fails"
13:01:06  <glx> but I'm on windows ;)
13:01:10  <SmatZ> I think it is expected to behave that way
13:01:12  <SmatZ> :)
13:01:29  <glx> compiling for now
13:02:02  <planetmaker> hm, I guess I never set a font as it works nicely automatically for me :-)
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13:02:17  <SmatZ> :)
13:03:26  <glx> planetmaker: sometimes the chosen font is not optimal
13:03:51  <glx> even if it contains all needed chars
13:03:54  <planetmaker> might be. But I found it quite optimal for all languages I tried so far. Which is most :-)
13:04:36  <planetmaker> Unable to use 'arial' for medium font, FreeType reported error 0x1, using sprite font instead <-- seems I need to find another font name to test pre-set font :-)
13:04:36  <glx> but usually increasing font size is enough :)
13:05:08  <glx> try verdana maybe
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13:08:17  <Thror> SmatZ: it works when you remove the font from cfg but, should work without remove it? I'd like to know if it's some kind of bug or if i have to manage that case in my patch
13:08:59  <planetmaker> of course a good font should also be selected when there are missing ones in  the pre-selected one
13:09:23  <planetmaker> or at least an error message be shown that not all glyphs have a valid representation
13:09:29  <planetmaker> (upon start-up)
13:09:44  <planetmaker> which tells that this might be due to having force-fully selected a font
13:10:13  <glx> I guess we assume that the user knows what he does when he sets a font :)
13:10:29  <planetmaker> a quite unsafe assumption usually
13:10:35  <planetmaker> user never know what they do ;-)
13:10:42  * SmatZ agrees with glx
13:11:09  <planetmaker> but then... it's a config-file only setting. Those user *should* know what they do.
13:12:18  <Thror> but i'm doing a gui patch for that settings
13:13:03  <glx> hmm it seems there's no 'validity' check on language change
13:13:15  <planetmaker> validity as in... ?
13:13:40  <glx> as in check the font can display the glyphs
13:13:58  <glx> at least I see nothing about it in the console
13:15:19  <glx> hmm with arial I can even start openttd in chinese without warnings
13:15:28  <glx> so I blame the font
13:16:33  <avdg> which font is good in multiple charsets?
13:16:45  <avdg> I think we won't get the answers in 10 years
13:17:28  <glx> no font contains all glyphs ;)
13:17:53  <glx> but arial unicode ms is not bad
13:18:03  <glx> (comes with MS Office)
13:18:15  <avdg> a ms font was I thought the best one
13:18:17  <avdg> but not free
13:18:29  <avdg> could be arial
13:18:42  <glx> arial is very limited
13:19:38  <avdg> arial unicode ms seems very good if I check the first results on google
13:19:43  <Terkhen> I use arial unicode ms when I'm testing RTL stuff too
13:20:07  <planetmaker> "good" is certainly relative... on OSX Bjarni removed some fonts to be considered at all: /* Skip some inappropriate or ugly looking fonts that have better alternatives. */
13:20:40  <avdg> lol
13:21:03  <Terkhen> IMO that should be judged by the user... at least the "uglyness" part
13:21:04  <glx> hmm looks like font check doesn't work well, or all fonts I tried are "broken"
13:22:34  <planetmaker> I tend to agree, Terkhen
13:25:24  <glx> or it's freetype returning a square glyph when we request a non existing one
13:25:45  <avdg> <- :o
13:27:14  <planetmaker> hm, it doesn't make a difference for me whether I remove those 'ugly' fonts from the list of acceptable fonts or not
13:27:30  * Terkhen wonders how these kind of pages have any clients with those prices
13:28:07  <Terkhen> planetmaker: -Cleanup: ...
13:28:14  <planetmaker> Terkhen: if you want to sell an app and can include that font for that price...
13:28:25  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
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13:32:23  <planetmaker> well... testing those which I do have on my system: they are indeed quite ugly
13:33:04  <Terkhen> how much?
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13:33:29  <planetmaker> <--especially this one ;-)
13:35:02  <Terkhen> it also does not seem to make any sense
13:35:22  <Terkhen> unless the characters have some small differences I'm not being able to discern
13:35:27  <avdg> fantasy fonts?
13:35:45  <Terkhen> fantasy as in "imagine what is written here"?
13:36:11  <planetmaker> that one is called 'LastResort'. Probably it means 'draw every glyph as this character'
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13:36:16  <planetmaker> which is somewhat stupid
13:36:50  * avdg doesn't have that font in his fontlibrary
13:37:36  <Terkhen> it sounds as it could be safely ignored unless it is the only font installed
13:37:48  <Terkhen> s/as it/as if it/
13:38:53  <glx> hmm we don't call FT_Get_Char_Index()
13:39:10  <glx> Note that this is one of the rare FreeType functions that do not return an error code. However, when a given character code has no glyph image in the face, the value 0 is returned. By convention, it always corresponds to a special glyph image called the missing glyph, which is commonly displayed as a box or a space.
13:39:27  <glx> maybe we should call it somewhere :)
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13:39:54  <avdg> or box with numbers
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13:43:12  <avdg> hmm, looks like my current font in the browser doesn't support numbered replacement characters
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13:46:49  <planetmaker> Hm... is there a way to give priority of one font over another?
13:47:07  <planetmaker> I guess only when I add it :-P
13:47:30  <Rubidium> remove the fonts with the lower priority?
13:47:50  * glx tries something in GetGlyph()
13:48:33  <Rubidium> maybe you can fiddle a bit with whatever ATSUI(?) returns, e.g. add support so the framework returns the fonts in the "best" order?
13:49:02  <planetmaker> ATSUI it'll have to be for 10.4 support, yes
13:49:28  <planetmaker> Given the possibility to need a list for the user-font selection anyway, such list will be needed
13:50:18  <planetmaker> And... I guess the user should only be given the choice of fonts which match the currently used glyphs.
13:51:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21230 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix/Change/Feature: [NewGRF] Make positioning of diesel fumes and electric sparks actually work (Hirundo).
13:51:42  <planetmaker> lol :-)
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14:00:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21231 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Generalize the naming of some settings and variables related to visual effects (Hirundo)
14:02:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21232 /trunk/src/ (train.h train_cmd.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: Move cached_vis_effect from the TrainCache to the VehicleCache (Hirundo)
14:03:33  <Belugas> hi ho
14:03:54  <Terkhen> hello Belugas
14:03:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21233 /trunk/src/ (train_cmd.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: Introduce an enum to remove some magic numbers from the visual effect code (Hirundo)
14:07:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21234 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Make Train::UpdateVisualEffect work for all vehicle types (Hirundo)
14:07:06  <Belugas> [06:25] <@planetmaker> thanks Belugas for the nice treatise on realism I can link :-)  <--  i loved to see the user kinda rebooted following your answer :D
14:07:28  <planetmaker> :-)
14:07:49  <Thror> i've have to go, i'll be back later
14:07:58  <Thror> bye
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14:08:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21235 /trunk/src/ (train.h train_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: Move Train::UpdateVisualEffect to the Vehicle class (Hirundo)
14:11:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21236 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Make the visual effects drawing routine work for all vehicle types (Hirundo)
14:11:52  <Eddi|zuHause> that might be interesting for andythenorth ;)
14:14:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21237 /trunk/src/ (train_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: Move HandleLocomotiveSmokeCloud to Vehicle::ShowVisualEffect (Hirundo)
14:16:22  <planetmaker> pony time for andy :-)
14:17:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21238 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_callbacks.h roadveh_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp): -Feature: [NewGRF] Support callback 0x10 for RVs and ships (Hirundo)
14:18:33  <Eddi|zuHause> so... eGRVTS steam trams?
14:18:48  <planetmaker> if you want
14:19:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21239 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange/Fix: [NewGRF] Use 0xFF instead of 0 as default value for visual effect. This makes setting train prop 22 to 0 actually work (Hirundo)
14:19:37  <planetmaker> also: welcome back home ;-)
14:22:16  <Belugas> On the linked topic, I loved peter1138s answer: "It is a game. Please ignore scale."
14:22:32  <Terkhen> :)
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14:31:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21240 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: [NewGRF] Implement action0 visual effect properties for ships and RVs (Hirundo)
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14:57:48  * Hirundo returns to find a few highlights waiting for him
14:57:58  <Terkhen> :D
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15:02:46  <Hirundo> Thanks for trunking so quickly, Rubidium
15:03:14  <Rubidium> now go an fix the specs :)
15:03:55  <Hirundo> hmm.. I can't seem to reach *
15:04:05  <planetmaker> you're not alone
15:05:50  * avdg hate broken pin on lan cable
15:06:12  <planetmaker> wifi cable? ;-)
15:06:19  <avdg> no, lan :p
15:07:27  <avdg> but that piece that was broken, actually never worked (as it should)
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15:37:54  <Thror> hi
15:38:10  <planetmaker> ho
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15:38:38  <Terkhen> hi Thror
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16:04:11  <Belugas> nice shot, Hirundo :)
16:04:42  <Belugas> poor Rubidium, he must get tired on writing your name in his commits
16:05:09  <planetmaker> Birds don't put much of a burden, if they fly on their own ;-)
16:05:42  <Hirundo> My pipeline is empty for now :)
16:05:58  <planetmaker> Do you want work? I have an idea... :-)
16:06:10  <planetmaker> A newgrf flag for trains: shunting
16:06:20  <Ammler> update is2 :-P
16:06:20  <planetmaker> if enabled, the train doesn't visually turn around anymore
16:07:02  <Belugas> is2?  bad idea for a clean reputation...  my opinion
16:07:12  <planetmaker> why?
16:07:24  <Ammler> it is "his" patch :-P
16:07:29  <planetmaker> also... his name is quite bound to IS2 ;-)
16:07:31  <Belugas> gives me goose bumps
16:07:58  <Belugas> but... i have to admit... it's one of the biggest requests...
16:08:07  <planetmaker> though there was a reason to abandon it or put it on hiatus
16:08:10  <Belugas> just that i fear the consequences...
16:08:26  <planetmaker> which ones in particular?
16:09:11  <Belugas> mostly regarding the company assignation and banrupty
16:09:15  <Belugas> stuff like that
16:09:46  <Hirundo> ^Doing that nicely is almost impossible
16:09:48  <planetmaker> I think that's not the big problem and that was already solved quite well
16:09:54  <Ammler> you need to drop the idea about making is competition secure
16:10:08  <planetmaker> the biggest problem is the exploits possible where one or the other player can't help it
16:10:48  <Hirundo> What do you think about 'sock puppet' companies in MP?
16:11:57  *** Mortomes|Work [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:12:08  <planetmaker> they're cheating
16:13:18  <Hirundo> Basically it's only usable in non-competitive multiplayer
16:13:37  <planetmaker> kind of, yes.
16:13:43  <Belugas> so... it's by nature dangerous
16:13:48  <planetmaker> But still, it could be disabled by default
16:13:57  <planetmaker> ignoring signals is also dangerous by default ;-)
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16:14:39  <Hirundo> If you can convince the other devs that IS should be trunked, go ahead :)
16:15:12  <planetmaker> it's more your baby and you know it way better than I do :-)
16:15:14  <fjb> Cheating is a social problem. And you can hardly solve social problems with technical solutions.
16:15:52  <Hirundo> 'adoption child' may be a better term here
16:15:57  <planetmaker> but I'll gladly argue in its favour :-)
16:15:59  <planetmaker> hehe
16:16:23  <planetmaker> still it's a total rewrite from what was there before
16:17:26  <Hirundo> that's sort of the point, you can argue in its favour freely, while I've seen to much of the inherent problems to do that
16:17:29  <planetmaker> I just wonder how far such setting(s) should go...
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16:18:20  <planetmaker> well. It has. But the social problem cannot be solved.
16:18:59  <planetmaker> Maybe it should have / require a button in the company window or IS2 settings window  which reads: recall all vehicles from that companies property.
16:19:07  <planetmaker> then most of the issue is gone
16:19:24  <planetmaker> where recall could mean just remove without refund in order to avoid cheating
16:20:13  <Belugas> Hirundo, to your point of view, is here ways to fix those?
16:20:24  <Belugas> note that i've not looked deeply into it...
16:22:05  <Hirundo> I've not been able to find any complete solution that's really usable outside the realms of #openttdcoop
16:22:54  <Hirundo> The three main issues were cargo payments, bankruptcy and a bucketload of MP exploits
16:22:56  <planetmaker> interestingly there's still an IS2 server
16:23:11  <planetmaker> or IS2 + Cargodist
16:23:12  <planetmaker> rather
16:23:59  <planetmaker> well. bancruptcy: just bancrupt it. And teleport the other people's vehicles to their depots or sell, if not possible
16:24:34  <planetmaker> cargo payment: as now with transfer orders
16:24:48  <planetmaker> but cross-company of course makes it difficult
16:25:43  <planetmaker> mp exploits: there always are. It's more a social one. It 'just' needs an emergency pull-out for each company so that others cannot keep your vehicles trapped
16:26:22  <planetmaker> but yes, this is a high-level simplifying summary :-)
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16:32:13  <Hirundo> transfer orders may imply a negative income, do you want that?
16:32:43  <planetmaker> only to the last leg.
16:32:47  <planetmaker> or legs
16:33:11  <planetmaker> hm...
16:33:48  <planetmaker> but I guess that's acceptable. If you don't want that, stop sharing ;-)
16:34:52  <Hirundo> it can easily go unnoticed, not to mention that you could be offline or afk
16:35:38  <planetmaker> sure. But you're not forced to use cross-company transfers. That's a social issue basically
16:36:03  <planetmaker> same with jams caused by others which hurt you
16:36:13  <planetmaker> it's after all already present for RV
16:36:28  <planetmaker> and there's also no fix for it. Nor one possible
16:36:32  <Hirundo> RVs will pass through such a blockade eventually
16:36:47  <Hirundo> plus, it's very easy to notice visually by all players
16:36:59  <planetmaker> train jams, too
16:37:40  <Hirundo> A single order change by a malicious competitor could turn your profitable train line into a money sink
16:38:17  <planetmaker> yes. Don't share with malicious compatitors. You chose to do so.
16:38:31  <Hirundo> how do you know who's malicious?
16:38:41  <avdg> me?
16:38:56  <Hirundo> you can't exactly tell by looking at the company manager face ;)
16:39:02  <planetmaker> I have to make a bet or take my chances. But that's a social problem, Hirundo
16:39:26  <planetmaker> if you don't want to share, don't share. No one is forced after all
16:39:33  <planetmaker> you only share with whom you trust
16:39:43  <Eddi|zuHause> imho, it'd be sufficient to allow joining to competitors stations. in conjunction with cargodist and a hypothetical way to allow per-transfer-payment-without-abuse-potential
16:39:53  <avdg> be carefully with the word trust ;-)
16:39:54  <Hirundo> IS introduces an awful lot of such 'social problems' or rather potential for exploitation
16:40:14  <michi_cc> planetmaker: The "ugly" font list was mine and not Bjarni's :) And all (maybe except Courier, but that's monospaced) were totally unusable at the default OpenTTD font size.
16:40:21  <planetmaker> he :-)
16:40:37  <planetmaker> michi_cc: those which I tested: I have to agree :-)
16:40:50  <planetmaker> the last two are not installed here, so I can't test them
16:42:14  <planetmaker> Hirundo: sure it does. But that's why it should not be enabled by default and even if, it should default to opt-in
16:42:38  <planetmaker> But IS2 is a inherent cooperative feature. So you cannot enforce cooperation by enemies by this
16:43:20  <planetmaker> if you force people to cooperate they'll always find ways to avoid cooperation
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16:43:28  <planetmaker> But IS doesn't force it
16:43:54  <michi_cc> Different releases likely have different fonts. There are probably even more unusable fonts, they just weren't selected for any of the languages we had back when I wrote it. If we get new langs with exotic letters the list might have to be extended.
16:44:40  <planetmaker> well. I kinda test different languages from time to time, especially those where I only see strange signs... it works very well so far
16:44:46  * TrueBrain slaps Leaseweb Engineers and tells them to get to work :@ :) I hate waiting ...
16:46:27  <michi_cc> Most of these hacks (and the Geeza Pro substitute as well) are because we (and FreeType) don't use the OS supplied font fallback lists for drawing (so e.g. Geeza Pro has a defined fallback font for the missing latin chars which the system text drawing would automatically select).
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16:50:29  <mib_lvkn07> gday here
16:50:50  <Terkhen> hi mib_lvkn07
16:51:16  <mib_lvkn07> trouble with master server ?
16:52:18  <Hirundo> All * services are down
16:53:07  <SpComb> orly
16:53:56  <mib_lvkn07> trouble with hardware or just routing is down somewhere ?
16:55:37  <SpComb> 16:42:58 -!- DorpsGek [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:58:47  <mib_lvkn07> SpComb: and what do you take with that ?
17:00:03  <mib_lvkn07> Oh, Mr planetmaker has been upgraded.
17:00:23  <planetmaker> hu?
17:00:27  <Belugas> depends... he is now a slave to stupid questions users :)
17:00:44  <mib_lvkn07> planetmaker: sory to awake you
17:00:56  <mib_lvkn07> or to wake you up.
17:01:28  <mib_lvkn07> there are no stupid questions
17:04:08  <TrueBrain> yes, there are stupid questions
17:04:11  <TrueBrain> trust us, there are
17:04:20  <Terkhen> :D
17:04:35  <TrueBrain> any person claiming there isn't, never did any helpdesk work
17:04:59  <FauxFaux> Nearly every question is stupid in my experience.
17:05:00  * planetmaker fears one can know about that even without ever doing helpdesk work :-)
17:05:04  <TrueBrain> when you think: "My Email is not working", received by mail, is a fable, you never worked at the helpdesk :)
17:05:31  <mib_lvkn07> if there are stupid questions means there are stupid explanations
17:05:52  <Terkhen> many stupid questions get stupid explanations, yes
17:06:03  <TrueBrain> but non-stupid questions also get stupid explanations
17:06:08  <TrueBrain> and stupid questions also gets good explanations
17:06:08  <Terkhen> :)
17:06:11  <TrueBrain> I doubt the two are related
17:07:28  <planetmaker> maybe not :-)
17:07:39  <planetmaker> though I guess a certain correlation can be found
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17:08:17  <shijir69> hi guys
17:08:23  <shijir69> server down?
17:09:04  <planetmaker> yes :-(
17:09:28  <shijir69> damn
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17:09:34  <shijir69> where i can downlad grf?
17:09:51  <Terkhen> grfcrawler or tt-forums
17:09:51  <mib_lvkn07> check on tt-forums graf crawler
17:10:04  <shijir69> gimme me url pls
17:10:11  <Terkhen> google knows
17:10:12  <shijir69> only missing roadvehicle date mod
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17:10:25  <mib_lvkn07> grfcrawler or something like that
17:10:30  <planetmaker> sounds like an obscure newgrf
17:10:41  <mib_lvkn07>
17:10:44  <Terkhen> yes, I never heard of it
17:11:10  <Belugas> [12:02] <mib_lvkn07> there are no stupid questions  <-- no you are right... only stupid users
17:11:33  <mib_lvkn07> there are no stupid users
17:11:54  <mib_lvkn07> only stupid explanation, or stupid technology
17:12:11  <planetmaker> there definitely are lazy users
17:12:13  <Belugas> buwhahahaha!!!!
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17:12:26  <glx> there are stupid users
17:12:31  <Belugas> mib_lvkn07, go on, keep on making me laugh!
17:12:44  <planetmaker> like... [18:10]	<mib_lvkn07>	check on tt-forums graf crawler
17:12:45  <planetmaker> [18:11]	<shijir69>	gimme me url pls
17:13:18  <mib_lvkn07> this guy has not same thinking system than you or me
17:13:34  <Belugas> there are stupid users asking stuff so blatantly obvious they don't even deserve an answer
17:13:36  <FauxFaux> is one of the best I've seen recently outside of my cow-orkers; especially as it's developer -> developer on a highly technical area.
17:14:30  <mib_lvkn07> he is lost, then he needs help
17:14:33  <Belugas> there are lazy users who don't even want to make the effort of THINKING about findeing themselves the answer.  IT's the hungry chick mouth wide open syndrom
17:14:40  <shijir69> which server is best?
17:14:54  <Belugas> the one you like best :)
17:15:00  <mib_lvkn07> and the best we have to do is teach him how to make it itselft
17:15:01  <Belugas> al the others, we killed them
17:15:22  <mib_lvkn07> and this is called education
17:15:37  <Belugas> mib_lvkn07, please, do that job of teaching for a month.  then we'll ask you how it feels
17:16:27  <mib_lvkn07> i didnt say it's easy
17:16:59  <Belugas> i did not say it was hard either :)
17:17:27  <planetmaker> of course my server is the best. But luckily for most people not ;-)
17:17:44  <planetmaker> or it would not be the best :-P
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17:18:33  <Belugas> one has to know what "best" means to the one who asks
17:18:47  <mib_lvkn07> Belugas: i did this job for 20 years now with my family
17:18:49  <planetmaker> :-) Cookie for Belugas
17:19:16  <Belugas> mib_lvkn07 : you TRAINED then for 20 years :)
17:19:21  *** X-2 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:19:23  <Belugas> but indeed i understand your point
17:19:55  <Belugas> my 6 years son is doing me the "why" answer to all that I say :)
17:20:04  <mib_lvkn07> Mr TrueBrain, do you have some information about when will master server will be back ?
17:20:08  <Belugas> thanks planetmaker :)
17:20:20  <Belugas> he's working hard on it
17:20:28  <mib_lvkn07> sure he is
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17:20:32  <Belugas> you should hear him swearing...
17:20:34  <mib_lvkn07> yop
17:20:35  <TrueBrain> enough answer?
17:20:37  <planetmaker> \o/ DorpsGek
17:20:45  <mib_lvkn07> seems to be a good nice start
17:20:58  <Terkhen> welcome back DorpsGek
17:21:40  <avdg> welcome wave for a bot? :p
17:21:56  <shijir69> damn cant find grf
17:22:07  <shijir69> Roadvehicle date mod
17:23:05  <glx> mib_lvkn07: I can say it should be back now
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17:26:08  <mib_lvkn07> wahou nice
17:27:00  <mib_lvkn07> i will go back to my stupid technology.
17:27:03  <mib_lvkn07> c u
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17:27:30  <glx> <avdg> welcome wave for a bot? :p <-- yes because it's an important thing :)
17:27:57  <planetmaker> and an indicator :-)
17:28:12  <Belugas> shijir69, of course, i'm sure you did searched with the online content download withn Openttd itseld
17:28:14  <Belugas> did you?
17:28:23  <Belugas> hoooopw...
17:28:32  <Belugas> he's gone
17:28:37  <planetmaker> of course ;-)
17:29:05  <planetmaker> but also, Belugas, online content doesn't work without * being online
17:29:11  <planetmaker> +not
17:29:41  <Belugas> well... i did looked at it, it's under my eyes, thus it works :)
17:29:47  <Belugas> but granted, maybe not then...
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17:34:22  <Terkhen> <-- who wants to test? I'm still coding another patch to show the selected part of the train, but everything else is already working (the code is still not clean, though)
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17:39:40  <Belugas> lol!
17:40:00  <Belugas> I know a guy who now reall y knows how to deal with tiny UI!!
17:41:04  <Terkhen> three answers in a single minute, I hope he does not have a single doubt about it now :)
17:41:25  <Belugas> and from 3 devs... like...
17:41:27  <Terkhen> :D
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17:48:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21241 /trunk/src/ (depot_gui.cpp group_gui.cpp): -Fix: Display dragged vehicles in the correct orientation while using RTL languages.
17:51:55  <Eddi|zuHause> how do you fix something that is correct?
17:52:36  <Terkhen> hm?
17:53:03  <Terkhen> why it was correct?
17:53:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the commit message is ambiguously worded.
17:54:58  <FauxFaux> I read it with "I have submitted a " at the start.
17:55:16  <Terkhen> that's possible; I'm not very good at writing commit messages
17:56:46  <planetmaker> they're good enough as long as it's clear. And assuming that you unfix a proper working condition is something which fails on the pre-conditions in place
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18:01:16  <Eddi|zuHause> well... might just be my twisted mind parsing an incomplete and ambiguous grammar :p
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18:44:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r21242 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files): (log message trimmed)
18:44:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:44:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belarusian - 12 changes by KorneySan
18:44:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 6 changes by VoyagerOne
18:44:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 1 changes by SmatZ
18:44:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 7 changes by jpx_
18:44:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by planetmaker
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18:49:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21243 /trunk/src/lang/ (croatian.txt slovenian.txt): -Fix: load of failures of WT3 to properly validate some strings...
18:50:15  <frosch123> yay, i have built a time machine!
18:50:49  <SmatZ> hello frosch123, who are you, I don't know you
18:50:51  <SmatZ> (yet?)
18:51:03  <SmatZ> what's the future like?
18:51:29  <frosch123> tomorrow there will be some nice features by hirundo :)
18:51:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i have a deja vu
18:51:43  <SmatZ> :-)
18:51:43  <Belugas> what's the next winning lottery number?
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18:51:57  <Eddi|zuHause> they must have changed something in the matrix
18:52:09  <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe i should call it map array :p
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18:52:37  <Belugas> tne NEW map array
18:52:48  <Ammler> 3dmap :-P
18:52:52  <Alberth> we don't have glitches :p
18:52:55  <Hirundo> the new map array should be realistic ;)
18:53:22  <Alberth> it is, it contains real bits
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18:57:52  <Belugas> Hirundo, i liked you
18:58:38  * Hirundo senses a use of the past tense
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18:58:51  <Belugas> and a joke ;)
18:59:10  <SmatZ> :-D
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19:03:52  <Samu> wow
19:04:09  <Samu> my poll results are surprising
19:04:28  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
19:04:41  * andythenorth gets a bit anal about GPL
19:05:29  <Hirundo> andythenorth: pony alert!
19:05:34  <Hirundo> @commit 21238
19:05:34  <DorpsGek> Hirundo: Commit by rubidium :: r21238 /trunk/src (3 files) (2010-11-18 14:17:55 UTC)
19:05:35  <DorpsGek> Hirundo: -Feature: [NewGRF] Support callback 0x10 for RVs and ships (Hirundo)
19:05:42  <Hirundo> @commit 21240
19:05:46  <DorpsGek> Hirundo: Commit by rubidium :: r21240 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2010-11-18 14:32:09 UTC)
19:05:47  <DorpsGek> Hirundo: -Feature: [NewGRF] Implement action0 visual effect properties for ships and RVs (Hirundo)
19:06:23  <Samu> ship tunnels, is it possible?
19:07:00  <Terkhen> hi andythenorth :)
19:07:12  <Hirundo> not without a boatload of visual glitches (pun semi-intended)
19:07:38  <Belugas> not with "proper implementation" either
19:07:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: it's not impossible, but it is not implemented, and if it would be, it would cause lots of graphics glitches
19:07:59  *** perk11 [~perk11@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:08:12  <Samu> hehe, thx
19:08:36  <Eddi|zuHause> and what's so surprising about the poll?
19:08:56  <Samu> everyone wants realistic train acceleration except me
19:09:13  <Samu> the original is harder
19:09:18  <Samu> they want an easy game
19:09:52  <Belugas> no....  i can;'t believe it ;)
19:09:56  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a differece between "hard" and "silly"
19:11:42  <andythenorth> ship smoke?
19:11:45  <andythenorth> awesomes
19:12:05  * andythenorth has a wedding to go to this weekend, so can't update FISH
19:13:15  <V453000> lol at original acceleratio
19:13:16  <V453000> nn
19:13:46  <planetmaker> [20:05]	* andythenorth	gets a bit anal about GPL <-- what's the issue?
19:13:57  <planetmaker> hello also :-)
19:14:07  <andythenorth>
19:15:01  <planetmaker> hm, yes
19:15:06  <andythenorth> also...silly old BROS forum still causing issues :P
19:15:12  <planetmaker> :-D
19:15:15  <andythenorth> ho hum
19:17:01  <planetmaker> claiming surprise would imply lying
19:18:33  * andythenorth wonders if there's time to implement ship smoke tonight :o
19:18:54  <V453000> just a stupid question: the current FIRS does work the same in all 3 climates, right? As in, there are the same industries in all 3?
19:19:24  <andythenorth> V453000: IIRC, the only change is Sugar Beet / Sugar Cane
19:19:30  <V453000> I see, thanks
19:19:34  <Terkhen> there were also some changes related to water in subtropic
19:19:40  <andythenorth> water was removed
19:19:41  <Rubidium> andythenorth: adding 1c 18 and updating the count of properties shouldn't be that much work :)
19:19:47  <Terkhen> IIRC goods fulfilled the function of water?
19:19:55  <andythenorth> or Petrol, I forget which
19:20:06  <andythenorth> town gui will tell you ;)
19:20:27  <V453000> seems like Food and Goods for towns
19:20:41  <V453000> thats what the gui says at the very least :p
19:20:47  *** Zuu [] has joined #openttd
19:20:54  <andythenorth> that's correct then ;)
19:21:35  <V453000> im just going to have a test game so I am just wondering about climate dependance :)
19:21:53  <Rubidium> start with toyland :)
19:22:09  <V453000> <3
19:22:29  <Zuu> toyland + openGFX shouldn't be much of a problem
19:22:49  <V453000> hate
19:22:52  <andythenorth> ha ha to FIRS in toyland
19:22:53  <V453000> thats not enough insane
19:23:03  <andythenorth> FIRS in toyland => modify compile it yourself
19:23:05  <V453000> the originals are great :p
19:23:22  <V453000> no need for that I think, andythenorth :)
19:23:43  * Terkhen knows of other newgrfs that work nicely in toyland :P
19:23:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21244 /trunk/src/ (news_gui.cpp settings.cpp window.cpp window_func.h): -Fix [FS#4240] (r21179): the news message always stayed in the middle; let it follow the setting of the statusbar instead
19:23:57  <V453000> eGRVTS? :)
19:24:25  <Terkhen> yes, and HEQS and FISH too
19:24:43  <V453000> :)
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19:28:47  <Samu> orudge
19:28:58  *** X-2 [] has joined #openttd
19:29:01  <Samu> just made all videos
19:29:11  <Samu> for ttd, tt and tte
19:29:37  <Ammler> no openttd?
19:29:56  <Samu> I am unable to record openttd
19:30:07  <Ammler> he :-)
19:30:46  <Samu> it's 240 MB
19:30:52  <Samu> can't send you yet
19:30:56  <Samu> maybe in a month
19:31:16  <Ammler> no Flatrate?
19:31:32  *** perk111 [~perk11@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:31:40  <Samu> flatrate?
19:32:22  <Zuu> = you pay a fixed amount and have unlimited of upload/download
19:32:44  <Zuu> Apart from the upper limit set by how much you can upload/download if you do it constantly at maximum bandwith.
19:32:48  <Samu> no, not at where I am
19:32:49  <Eddi|zuHause> we had this discussion already :p
19:33:38  <planetmaker> quite
19:34:23  * Rubidium wants to see the first ISP that has a truely flat rate
19:34:34  <Zuu> I found out my cell phone carier actually have flat rate, only that when you pass the upper "limit" of data, the speed drops to about 60 kb/s.
19:34:58  <Zuu> My cell phone does not make more than that even if the data plan allows more.
19:35:28  <Ammler> Rubidium: because the limit is the speed or why?
19:35:35  <andythenorth> bah
19:35:38  <andythenorth> renum sulks
19:35:49  <Ammler> luckily there is nforenum :-P
19:35:55  <andythenorth> nforenum sulks
19:36:02  <andythenorth> and I waste more keys :P
19:36:04  <SmatZ> @dict sulk
19:36:23  <Samu> Os meus vídeos.arc - 237 MB (249.101.581 bytes)
19:36:23  <Samu> Os meus vídeos.7z  - 238 MB (250.203.488 bytes)
19:36:23  <Samu> Os meus vídeos.rar - 241 MB (252.730.692 bytes)
19:36:23  <Samu> Os meus ví - 246 MB (258.788.741 bytes)
19:36:29  <Rubidium> Ammler: because most say "no limit" and then still have a limit of X GiB and then they start threatening you with shutting down the connection or bumping you to the more expensive plan
19:36:35  * andythenorth bets nforenum thinks I can't use prop 1C for ships
19:37:02  * andythenorth wins that bet
19:37:02  <Ammler> I am not aware of such a limit from my ISP
19:37:08  <Ammler> (Swisscom)
19:37:11  <Rubidium> andythenorth: have you updated nforenum?
19:37:13  * andythenorth would like to collect winnings please
19:37:14  <andythenorth> no
19:37:23  <andythenorth> I shall now do that and collect winnings
19:37:39  * planetmaker hands a cookie to andythenorth
19:37:59  <SmatZ> :)
19:38:52  * andythenorth needs to figure out 'make install' for grfcodec tools
19:40:57  <Alberth> simply link the built binary from your 'bin', no need to install anything :)
19:41:14  <andythenorth> yay
19:41:16  <andythenorth> ships with smoke
19:41:24  <andythenorth> somewhat wrong offsets :)
19:41:27  <andythenorth> which can be fixed
19:41:55  <Alberth> delayed smoke :p
19:42:07  <andythenorth> do they get 'more smoke'
19:42:12  <andythenorth> it seems to be a sparse amount...
19:42:26  <andythenorth> is it calculated from acceleration or some such?
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19:43:18  <Hirundo> What is your smoke setting?
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19:43:54  <andythenorth> 'realistic'
19:43:56  <Samu> i got a weird error when a player joined
19:44:12  <Samu> received invalid or unexpected packet
19:44:37  <Ammler> what is weird about?
19:44:46  <andythenorth> Hirundo: I'll commit an update to FISH - so you have a test grf
19:45:25  <Samu> I wonder if it was because I hosted with a original TTD scenario
19:45:41  <Hirundo> andythenorth: smoke emission should be the same as for a train moving at the same speed relative to max
19:46:02  <Ammler> Samu: that can happen all the time, just report it, if it repeatly happens...
19:46:18  <Samu> try joining my game
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19:47:14  <andythenorth> does smoke have any kind of performance issues?
19:48:06  <planetmaker> long-term yes. Ask the smoker of your choice ;-)
19:49:23  <andythenorth> is the code for generating smoke shared by all vehicles?
19:49:42  <andythenorth> i.e. could ships generate smoke differently to trains?
19:49:52  <avdg> was smoke not only for trains?
19:50:36  <Terkhen> andythenorth: the code is shared
19:51:34  <andythenorth> so there are no constants or whatever that could be changed for ships only?
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19:52:18  <planetmaker> read the wiki :-P
19:52:31  <Terkhen> what kind of constants? scaling the speed differently for them?
19:52:46  <planetmaker> every thips can have its own. But the effects are the same and not new-grf-able. Just the choice is
19:52:49  <andythenorth> causing ships to produce smoke fairly constantly
19:53:08  <andythenorth> currently there is just one puff of smoke when starting, then no more
19:53:51  *** ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:53:57  * andythenorth doesn't want to look a gift pony in the mouth :D
19:53:59  <andythenorth> but...
19:54:10  <andythenorth> more smoke for ships?
19:55:19  <Terkhen> are you using diesel or steam?
19:55:30  <Eddi|zuHause> afair diesel smoke was based on acceleration
19:56:09  *** ctibor [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:57:26  <andythenorth> Terkhen: I tried both
19:58:35  <Samu> what is the least cpu intensive blitter? or rather gpu
19:59:14  <__ln___> the null video driver
19:59:32  <Samu> hehe, but i want to play
19:59:55  <SmatZ> Samu: the default
20:01:32  <Terkhen> andythenorth: I'm afraid that it would require another smoke setting ingame or modifying the specs
20:03:16  <avdg> very interesting compile log:
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20:04:20  <Hirundo> currently there is no diesel smoke at full speed, we might want to change that for ships
20:04:38  <andythenorth> no steam smoke either at full speed
20:04:53  * Hirundo tests
20:05:00  <avdg> is pm here?
20:05:12  <planetmaker> maybe also am
20:05:18  <Terkhen> but wouldn't that make ships even more costly in performance?
20:05:49  <Hirundo> not more costly than, say, a steam train
20:07:13  <avdg> pm: check the compile log here above ("video/cocoa/")
20:08:49  <planetmaker> interesting. which gcc?
20:09:21  <avdg> i686-apple-darwin10-gcc-4.2.1 (GCC) 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5664)
20:09:52  <planetmaker> right... I only tested with 4.0
20:10:54  <planetmaker> thanks for the report
20:10:57  <Hirundo> andythenorth: isn't there? for me there is steam smoke even at full speed and reduced smoke setting
20:11:44  <Rubidium> Hirundo: but the more smoke setting doesn't mean there's more smoke :)
20:12:23  * andythenorth checks if loaded ships makes any difference
20:12:49  <Hirundo> only that it's more 'realistic
20:14:04  <Samu> i've been offered a subsidy to transport goods to a town that doesn't have enough buildings to accept goods :(
20:14:43  <avdg> hmm; polish.txt already 4 days in trunk and I got an error?
20:15:15  <Terkhen> I don't get those errors with polish
20:15:20  * andythenorth has a confession to make
20:15:34  <andythenorth> hm
20:15:35  * Hirundo hands a soapbox
20:15:38  <andythenorth> ship smoke is fine
20:15:44  <andythenorth> nothing to see here, please move on
20:15:53  <Terkhen> :)
20:15:56  <andythenorth> small mistyping of 1 and 2
20:16:27  <andythenorth> steam smoke provides the correct effect
20:16:30  <andythenorth> it's a bit white
20:16:43  <andythenorth> diesel smoke would look better, but if that's tmwftlb...
20:16:56  <Rubidium> avdg: if you get an error on that file you're definitely not using HEAD
20:17:05  <Rubidium> maybe you're using some mixture of versions
20:17:36  <Hirundo> what is tmwftlb?
20:17:41  <avdg> I'll check
20:17:46  <andythenorth> too much for too little benefit
20:17:56  <andythenorth> too much work for too little benefit
20:18:02  <Rubidium> pff... tmwftlb to write that in full
20:18:09  <Alberth> :)
20:18:36  <planetmaker> <-- does that work for you, avdg ?
20:18:45  * andythenorth has made some of the ships too bloody long
20:18:58  <andythenorth> offsetting by F is not enough
20:19:16  <avdg> rudibium: you're right; the error isn't in the svn trunk
20:19:51  <Rubidium> even then, the compiler seems to be right about crossing initialisations
20:20:15  <Hirundo> "diesel smoke would look better, but if that's tmwftlb..." <- what is tmwftlb here?
20:21:03  <Rubidium> ?
20:21:36  <Rubidium> hmm s/p/q/
20:21:54  <avdg> now compile 2 :p
20:22:55  <andythenorth> Hirundo: changing the behaviour of diesel smoke specific to ships - tmwftlb?
20:22:59  <Alberth> Hirundo: or read back what andy answered
20:23:04  <avdg> pm: works fine here
20:23:06  * Rubidium wonders whether he ever ranted about the amount of different implementations of stuff in the OS X part of OpenTTD and that causing problems for quite a lot of patches
20:23:21  <planetmaker> hm?
20:23:42  <avdg> that patch ;-)
20:23:46  <planetmaker> rant away. Then I know what bothers your mind right now ;-)
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20:24:07  <Rubidium> planetmaker: I stopped bothering about Mac OS X stuff roughly a year ago
20:25:11  <Samu> is it possible to start a game as a spectator right away?
20:25:30  <planetmaker> I guess you had a reason to bring it up right now, though, Rubidium :-)
20:25:42  <planetmaker> But my crystal ball fails me ;-)
20:26:26  <Rubidium> planetmaker: because of avdg's compile failure on Mac OS X
20:26:54  <Rubidium> I'd argue that it's in code that isn't compiled for you, otherwise you'd have had a compiler complain about it before
20:27:03  <planetmaker> That stuff might be subject to a more thorough review somewhen.
20:27:26  <planetmaker> Rubidium: not really. It compiles for gcc4.0 but not with gcc 4.2
20:27:45  <Rubidium> then gcc4.0 is really a crappy piece of software
20:28:03  <Rubidium> did they put KDE's release managers on it? :)
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20:29:16  <planetmaker> dunno :-)
20:30:00  <planetmaker> I think it was just that gcc got stricter with goto handling
20:30:22  <planetmaker> it's about jumping over a variable declaration which gcc 4.2 doesn't like
20:31:03  <Rubidium> yeah, because it can't figure out where it should pop that variable from the stack
20:31:06  <andythenorth> hmm
20:31:27  <andythenorth> given there's only one worthwhile ship set :P - could the vertical offset of smoke be changed?
20:33:32  <andythenorth>
20:34:02  <Hirundo> in principle, yes
20:34:13  <planetmaker> practically rather a new variable ;-)
20:34:42  <planetmaker> but that might be tmwftlg
20:34:51  <Hirundo> andythenorth: come up with a sane newgrf spec
20:37:21  * andythenorth wonders how to do that
20:37:56  <planetmaker> how would you (like to) code a (variable) z-offset?
20:38:07  <andythenorth> also the other offset...
20:38:15  <andythenorth> is the relative positioning offset limited by something to do with the vehicle bounding box?
20:38:28  <andythenorth> or is it just the most that can be done in a signed byte?
20:38:39  <andythenorth> or is it just historical accident?
20:38:57  <andythenorth> F = half vehicle offset
20:39:13  <andythenorth> or half past end
20:39:35  * andythenorth needs to learn how to ask better questions
20:42:00  <Hirundo> there are no real limits, but large offsets (in the vehicle direction) will look ugly when the vehicle turns
20:42:17  <Hirundo> large vehicles look ugly in turns in general :)
20:42:31  <Alberth> andythenorth:
20:43:39  <__ln___> 22:25 < Rubidium> planetmaker: I stopped bothering about Mac OS X stuff roughly a year ago   <--- that's the biggest lie of the week.  barel a day goes by without you talking about some Mac OS X stuff here.
20:43:41  <andythenorth> cb result for offsets?
20:43:51  <andythenorth> check a var to specify x / y / z offset?
20:44:08  <andythenorth> is the most flexible
20:44:15  <andythenorth> but a prop might be less trouble
20:44:38  <andythenorth> prop dword for rrxxyyzz
20:44:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r21245 /trunk/src/video/cocoa/ -Fix (r21200): [OSX] Make gcc 4.2 happy
20:44:44  <andythenorth> rr = reserved
20:45:25  <Hirundo> a system of tangential/normal coordinates may be more suitable here instead of x/y
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20:46:50  <Eddi|zuHause> rrllwwhh [reserved, length, width, height]?
20:47:39  <Hirundo> ll, ww, hh being signed bytes?
20:50:30  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
20:51:01  <andythenorth> works for me
20:51:17  <andythenorth> then either prop, or cb result
20:51:27  <andythenorth> cb result seems to be preferred to new properties
20:51:32  <Hirundo> 24 bits CB result won't work
20:51:47  <andythenorth> cb result opens a can of worms
20:51:59  <andythenorth> I could start moving smoke around according to....e.g. speed
20:52:03  <andythenorth> :P
20:52:15  <Hirundo> that depends on how often the CB is called
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20:54:53  <Hirundo> I suggest that you draw smaller ships :P
20:55:21  <andythenorth> well indeed
20:55:36  <andythenorth> I thought of adjusting *all* the y offsets :P
20:55:55  <andythenorth> but they'd canals
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20:59:59  <Belugas> surely they'lll better in ttdp
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21:06:56  <AveiMil> Version 0.3 released!
21:06:58  <AveiMil>
21:07:30  <Samu> hey aveimil, join my game and flood my towns
21:09:01  <Eddi|zuHause> "Erstmals im deutschen Free-TV wird ab 1. Januar immer samstags um 23.05 Uhr die britische Sitcom „'Allo'Allo!“ zu sehen sein."
21:09:17  <Samu>
21:10:09  *** SgobbiT [] has joined #openttd
21:11:17  <AveiMil> Is that PIGM?
21:11:25  <AveiMil> I have 4 dedicated servers up btw :)
21:11:52  *** roelmb [] has left #openttd []
21:12:44  <Samu> no, its a map for flooding towns
21:15:05  <Samu> there's more servers than players
21:15:45  <planetmaker> a cookie for samu for this fascinating new discovery ;-)
21:16:01  <AveiMil> that sounds like fun for about 4-5 minutes
21:17:52  *** kenneth [] has joined #openttd
21:17:59  <kenneth> Hello
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21:18:14  <planetmaker> hi
21:18:24  <Samu> no one wants to flood towns :(
21:20:05  <Terkhen> hi kenneth
21:20:05  <AveiMil> lol
21:20:16  <AveiMil> Samu, 0.3 is out, go play on one of my dedicated servers
21:20:20  <AveiMil> show me how good you are
21:20:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: ever thought about the fact that this could be the same reason as why people don't play with original acceleration?
21:21:20  <Samu> flooding towns?
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21:22:38  <planetmaker> that was... brief
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21:29:36  <AveiMil> Samu, we're 3 people in server #1 :)
21:29:47  <AveiMil>
21:29:59  <Samu> there's 3 guys in my game
21:30:07  <Samu> if I leave, the game ends
21:30:20  <AveiMil> start another session of OpenTTD and leave the other one :)
21:30:26  <AveiMil> (leave it running)
21:31:06  * andythenorth ponders ships with spark effect :P
21:32:07  <Terkhen> wouldn't that be bad for the fishes? :)
21:32:53  <planetmaker> Terkhen: it's like a turbo-charge for the skate ;-)
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21:33:03  <Samu> cool
21:33:07  <Terkhen> :D
21:33:07  <Samu> they both dropped at the sametime
21:33:21  <Samu> I can quit
21:35:12  <andythenorth> Hirundo: aallwwhh
21:35:19  <andythenorth> aa = amount of smoke :D
21:35:39  <Rubidium> hhaawwll :)
21:35:47  <Samu> your frame_freq thing is low
21:35:51  <andythenorth> or whether to repeat n (0-E)  (F = continuous repeat)
21:36:45  <andythenorth> default diesel smoke looks awesme for e.g. small fishing boat
21:38:15  <Terkhen> I love it when I discover a bug just after uploading something
21:38:33  <planetmaker> isn't that murphy's first law?
21:39:05  <SpComb> corollary
21:39:08  <Terkhen> probably one of its addendums
21:39:32  <Terkhen> "the bug will always be in the only part of the code you forget to test"
21:39:50  <planetmaker> sure ;-)
21:39:53  <andythenorth> frick
21:40:01  <andythenorth> I drew some ships with two smoke stacks
21:40:06  <andythenorth> how stupid was that :P
21:40:20  <SpComb> if one of them is for the fireplace?
21:40:44  <planetmaker> andythenorth: why not?
21:41:06  <Rubidium> Terkhen: no, the bug will be in the part you tested extensively first and then to fix another bug you broke the first
21:41:36  <Terkhen> :D
21:41:52  <Belugas> ho... Sirkoz has a problem with smoke...
21:41:58  <Belugas> poor dear...
21:43:39  <Belugas> night all
21:43:52  <Rubidium> night Belugas
21:43:53  <Terkhen> good night Belugas
21:44:00  <Hirundo> FS4242 bug found
21:44:23  <andythenorth> smoke problems?
21:44:26  <andythenorth> where :P
21:44:26  <planetmaker> g'night Belugas
21:44:42  <Rubidium> Hirundo: oh, and patch 6/7 (or so) contains some spaces at the begin of the lines (before a tab)
21:45:04  <Rubidium> s/contains/contained/
21:45:16  <Rubidium> yay for the precommit hook filtering that out
21:45:21  <planetmaker> the patches probably still do ;-)
21:45:41  <planetmaker> hehe. The pre-commit hook is good at that ;-)
21:45:48  <Hirundo> I thought I'd checked for that after hacking around in the diff files...
21:46:10  <planetmaker> praise to the commit hook ;-)
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22:23:24  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21246 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: upon rescanning AIs the new AIs would (after some time) show up in the AI list but you could not select all
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22:25:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21247 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix: make the tar scanner forget about old (possibly removed) tars
22:26:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21248 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: don't run the tar scanner twice upon startup
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23:08:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21249 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r21240, r21236) [FS#4242]: rear ends of dualheaded engines didn't smoke nor spark (Hirundo)
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23:30:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21250 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#3952]: Rescanning AIs didn't "forget" removed AIs
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23:50:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21251 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r20950): toyland sprites were forgotten
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23:55:20  <SmatZ> @commit 20950
23:55:20  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by rubidium :: r20950 /trunk (7 files in 2 dirs) (2010-10-16 20:00:20 UTC)
23:55:21  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Fix: (or at least greatly improve) alignment of some original graphics pillar sprites

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