Log for #openttd on 26th November 2010:
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00:00:26  <avdg> just use some option to ignore these msg
00:00:30  <Samu> http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/pt_PT/STR_NEWGRF_ERROR_AFTER_TRANSLATED_FILE
00:00:31  <Samu> question about this
00:00:49  <Samu> the english part makes little sense, or is it part of some context?
00:05:00  <avdg> Katje_: did you found the autorenew settings? You can check the wiki: http://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_Settings/Vehicles#Autorenew
00:08:11  <Katje_> yeah
00:08:17  <Katje_> it just took a while to kick in properly
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00:10:22  <glx> Samu: it's a multistring message
00:11:03  <Samu> hmm
00:11:09  <Samu> what is the full message
00:11:17  <Samu> it's hard to translate like that
00:11:55  <glx> STR_NEWGRF_ERROR_LOAD_AFTER
00:15:29  <Samu> the GRF file it was designed to translate must be loaded after?
00:16:57  <glx> <newgrf name> must be loaded after <the GRF file it was designed to translate>.
00:18:03  <Samu> ah, quite confusing
00:18:17  <glx> no it's clear :)
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00:18:25  <cypher> hi
00:18:35  <cypher> anybody here can help me how to compile openttd on windows?
00:18:42  <cypher> i just want to apply one small patch...
00:18:50  <glx> follow the wiki
00:18:55  <Samu> clear in english, but to make a valid phrase...
00:19:54  <cypher> Yes, the Wiki. Did I mention I don't have Visual Studio or anything else to actually compile it? I was hoping there is some other tool to do it.
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00:20:33  <glx> only MSVC or MINGW
00:21:07  <cypher> Er, what?
00:22:14  <glx> visual studio or gcc
00:22:23  <glx> the 2 only options
00:23:09  <Samu> chain strings...
00:23:51  <Samu> is there a tree
00:23:58  <Samu> for these errors?
00:24:04  <Samu> for these chain strings?
00:24:21  <Rubidium> no; you seem to be the first that is asking about it
00:24:53  <Rubidium> so... please make a wiki page with all these strings that are unclear and tell how they are used in the game
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00:25:07  <Rubidium> (I can't tell which strings are unclear as I don't do translations)
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00:25:35  <glx> when I have a doubt I check the source
00:25:36  <Rubidium> cypher: just download Visual Studio Express; it's not like it costs you something, besides a lot of bandwidth
00:26:12  <glx> <@Rubidium> cypher: just download Visual Studio Express; it's not like it costs you something, besides a lot of bandwidth <-- the main question is for which version is the patch
00:26:26  <glx> 1.0.X or trunk
00:27:21  <cypher> +glx well I have no clue... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=40024
00:27:59  <glx> no need for a patch IIRC
00:27:59  <cypher> I just got pissed that my trains are turning around all the time causing jams so I looked for a patch and then I realized I won't compile it on Windows...
00:28:10  <glx> just change some settings
00:28:46  <glx> and that's a 2 years old patch
00:28:50  <cypher> I tried, but never actually got what I wanted.
00:29:28  <glx> changes in openttd.cfg don't apply to existing savev games
00:29:36  <Samu> http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/pt_PT/STR_NEWGRF_BROKEN_VEHICLE_LENGTH
00:29:38  <Samu> heh
00:29:50  <Katje_> there needs to be an auto replace crashed aircraft option...
00:30:18  <Rubidium> Katje_: no, aircraft are too easy as it is already
00:30:31  <Katje_> Rubidium: how so ?
00:30:41  <Katje_> I set them up, go away for abit and come back to find they have all crashed...
00:30:53  <Rubidium> just build some airports + aircraft and money by the buckets
00:31:04  <Katje_> not entirely true
00:31:07  <Katje_> also, boring :p
00:31:26  <Katje_> incidentally, is it possible to see the end of year accounts for years other htan the previous 2 ?
00:31:43  <Rubidium> and if you need an option to autoreplace aircraft when they crash, you're probably searching for something to disable those crashes at all
00:31:46  <Rubidium> Katje_: no
00:32:36  <Katje_> no, the crashes are semi sensible anyway...
00:32:49  <Samu> what is 1:ENGINE?
00:32:52  <Samu> a train?
00:32:54  <Samu> a bus?
00:33:14  <glx> all
00:33:19  <glx> it's an engine
00:33:24  <Samu> :)
00:33:41  <glx> generic type
00:34:06  <Samu> the name that comes up is Train 1?
00:34:12  <fjb> Hmmm, gdb doesn't see my threads.
00:34:20  <glx> no that is a vehicle
00:34:23  <Samu> or T.I.M.?
00:34:26  <Samu> ah ok
00:34:39  <glx> T.I.M. is an engine
00:34:54  <glx> wagons are engine too ;)
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00:35:17  <Samu> the global 4 vehicles = engine
00:35:18  <Samu> ok
00:35:47  <glx> things you buy in depots/hangar = engines
00:36:06  <avdg> Rubidium: small fix for the readme file http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8529206/openttd/readme.patch
00:36:08  <glx> when bought they become vehicles
00:37:58  <Samu> a sprite is a small image part of a whole
00:38:17  <Samu> translating sprite won't be easy
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00:38:45  <Katje_> is there any way to load new vehicle types once a game has started ?
00:39:16  <glx> yes but things may break
00:39:20  <Katje_> oh
00:41:55  <avdg> Katje_: you may set "Vehicles never expires" on
00:42:03  <fjb> Endless loop in the ethernet driver. Not good...
00:42:31  <avdg> it won't get you new vehicles, but prevents phasing out older vehicles
00:42:31  <Samu> Unknown Action 0 property. http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/pt_PT/STR_NEWGRF_ERROR_UNKNOWN_PROPERTY
00:42:40  <Samu> is Action 0 supposed to be translated?
00:43:04  <Rubidium> it's better it's not translated
00:43:10  <Samu> ok
00:43:32  <glx> it's a newgrf term
00:43:51  <Eddi|zuHause> with the whole "forbid to change newgrfs" thing going on, we need to think of a way how people can add vehicle sets upon starting a scenario
00:44:55  <Katje_> I need a better grf for ships
00:44:57  <glx> Samu: but you can translate unknown and property ;)
00:45:03  <Katje_> I have one but it only has HUGE ships
00:45:16  <fjb> FISH
00:45:17  <Katje_> and I can't produce 16000000l of oil from anything in a reasonable time
00:45:22  <Katje_> fjb: ?
00:45:30  <fjb> A ship set.
00:47:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21329 /trunk/readme.txt: -Doc: some readme tweaks (part by avdg)
00:47:34  <avdg> :p
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00:48:10  <fjb> Katje_: It is on BANANAS.
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00:48:38  <Katje_> fjb: ??
00:49:37  <fjb> Add-on download from inside the game.
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00:52:32  <Katje_> how long do crashed trains hang around for ?
00:54:50  <Samu> {WHITE}'{1:STRING}' caused an endless loop in the production callback.
00:54:58  <Samu> how the heck do I translate that!
00:55:03  <fjb> About half a year.
00:55:49  <Samu> endless loop, what is it?
00:57:31  <Rubidium> Samu: the string is the name of a NewGRF
00:57:57  <Rubidium> Samu: an endless loop is something that's looping without ever stopping
00:58:43  <Samu> hmm :) production callback is
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01:03:06  <Rubidium> something NewGRF-ish, but I guess the string's name already gave that away
01:04:06  <Samu> what can be the string name, for example? im trying to translate production callback
01:05:08  <Rubidium> STR_NEWGRF_BUGGY_ENDLESS_PRODUCTION_CALLBACK <- that's the string's name
01:05:47  <Samu> :) callback
01:06:09  <Rubidium> Samu: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action2Industries
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01:09:40  <Samu> so production is indeed cargoes, nothing to do with callback
01:09:58  <Samu> meh...
01:10:14  <Samu> how a industry receives cargo?
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01:10:39  <Samu> because it's several tiles and not a tile
01:11:39  <Samu> whatever, I skip that one
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01:39:39  <Samu> {WHITE}NewGRF variable 60+x parameter (hexadecimal)
01:39:59  <Samu> is 60+x parameter one thing and NewGRF variable another?
01:40:08  <Samu> or is if variable 60+x?
01:40:27  <Wolf01> 'night
01:40:30  <Samu> lol :)
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01:41:16  <Samu> parameter of variable 60+x of NewGRF?
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01:51:12  <Samu> http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/pt_PT/STR_NEWGRF_INVALID_CARGO
01:51:17  <Samu> is this supposed to be translated?
01:52:27  <SmatZ> yes
01:52:57  <Samu> ok
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02:13:46  <Samu> anyone there?
02:13:58  <Samu> {WHITE}It changed powered-wagon state for '{1:ENGINE}' when not inside a depot.
02:14:06  <Samu> is this for electric engines?
02:14:11  <Samu> or wagons?
02:14:20  <Samu> trains I suppose?
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02:33:17  <Samu> well i gotta go
02:33:23  <Samu> there's some stuff I really don't get
02:33:38  <Samu> {WHITE}It changed powered-wagon state for '{1:ENGINE}' when not inside a depot.
02:33:46  <Samu> oh well
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08:25:20  <planetmaker> moin
08:25:31  <Rubidium> me
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08:40:50  <AveiMil> NML
08:40:50  <AveiMil> retire_early	(years)	Number of years before model_life when no new vehicles can be bought. May be negative.
08:40:55  <AveiMil> "May be negative"
08:41:05  <AveiMil> I figured that means if it's negative it actually retires late.
08:41:18  <AveiMil> But I can't reconcile that with testing. Any ideas?
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08:44:30  <planetmaker> should work that way, though
08:45:09  <AveiMil> retire_early: -5;
08:45:15  <AveiMil> that's a negative number right?
08:45:20  <AveiMil> there's no other clever syntax?
08:47:06  <AveiMil> perhaps 5 is just not a large enough number to overcome the variance from phase3
08:47:40  <AveiMil> and it's random that I saw the plane with -5 retire before the one with 0 retire the two tests i ran
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08:49:18  <AveiMil> no, that does not make sense
08:49:33  <AveiMil> I set Sampson to retire_early: -5; and load up games in 1950
08:49:39  <AveiMil> it never even appears as available
08:49:45  <AveiMil> while I return retire_early to 0
08:49:48  <AveiMil> it shows up every time
08:49:56  <AveiMil> NML bug or game bug?
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08:57:34  <AveiMil> Ahh, I can't make sense of that variable
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09:12:13  <planetmaker> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0General#Model_life
09:22:51  <AveiMil> right
09:22:56  <AveiMil> but that doesn't make any sense
09:23:01  <AveiMil> doesent match testing
09:23:25  <AveiMil> (can be negative if desired) is all it describes though
09:23:35  <AveiMil> it doesnt say what it means when that number is negative
09:25:28  <peter1138> how large is a giant screenshot on 2048x2048?
09:25:42  <peter1138> ah... impossibly large
09:26:08  <peter1138> my isometric minecraft map is by comparison only 19050x5018 pixels
09:26:08  <planetmaker> @calc 8 * 64 *2048 * 1024
09:26:08  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 1073741824
09:26:15  <planetmaker> approx
09:26:15  <andythenorth> oh no
09:26:24  <andythenorth> peter1138 has fallen into the minecrack :P
09:26:30  <peter1138> 28MB :s
09:26:32  <andythenorth> now we'll never get roadtypes :(
09:26:33  <peter1138> andythenorth, months ago
09:26:45  <andythenorth> some people I work with did the same
09:27:01  <peter1138> i want infinite worlds in ottd!
09:27:10  <peter1138> (i know, it's not possible)
09:27:11  <planetmaker> do it!
09:27:22  * andythenorth has a loft full of lego and is avoiding minecraft
09:27:24  <planetmaker> (despite)
09:27:40  <peter1138> well, i guess it is, but you'd have... problems...
09:28:16  <peter1138> minecraft can unload things that aren't near people
09:28:22  <peter1138> ottd cann't
09:28:23  <peter1138> -n
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10:18:30  <Markavian> hello
10:18:46  <Markavian> which idiot was responsible for locking the position of the mouse cursor while panning the map?
10:19:03  <Rubidium> Chris
10:19:15  <Markavian> ?
10:19:41  <planetmaker> Chris Sawyer
10:20:07  <peter1138> is it a problem?
10:20:21  * planetmaker considers the attitude the main problem
10:20:31  <Markavian> seriously, it was like that in the original? (my memory must be failing me)
10:20:38  <planetmaker> but makes for a good first-time entry
10:20:49  <Markavian> ahh, I used to hang around here a few years ago
10:21:16  <Markavian> it is a problem; I thought I'd vent on irc first then search the bug tracker database
10:21:32  <Markavian> my mouse pad doesn't have enough space, I keep having to lift up and reposition my mouse
10:21:55  <peter1138> everyone does. that's how it works.
10:22:00  <Markavian> which I don't think I've done since I was a retard 6 year old who didn't know what an email address was
10:22:01  <Rubidium> so change the appropriate setting
10:22:15  <Markavian> could you point out which setting it is please?
10:22:30  <Rubidium> (I don't know what the appropriate setting is though, and don't have the infrastructure to look it up right now)
10:23:16  <Markavian> well, I looked through all of the Advanced Settings > Interface > Interaction options
10:23:45  <Markavian> I thought at first it was "reverse scroll direction" that was causing me headaches, but I toggled that and got 10x more confused
10:24:13  <Markavian> then I realised the mouse cursor wasn't moving when I was moving my mouse, and then I think a blood vessel burst
10:24:39  <andythenorth> ha ha
10:24:45  * andythenorth doesn't have that problem
10:24:50  <planetmaker> :-)
10:24:51  <andythenorth> must be annoying :P
10:24:54  <planetmaker> Touchpad rules :-P
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10:25:22  <peter1138> touchpads are annoying
10:25:39  <planetmaker> mousepads are ;-)
10:25:52  <planetmaker> they always end where it's inconvenient
10:26:49  <andythenorth> lack of roadtypes is really inconvenient
10:26:50  <andythenorth> :P
10:27:02  <Markavian> with my wrist on the table I can reach the four corners of my screen within the boundaries of my mousepad ;_; this works fine 10 hours of the day til I come to play TTD for the first time in a year
10:27:18  <peter1138> anyway, there is no option to stop the mouse being fixed
10:27:39  <andythenorth> Markavian: no scroll wheel?
10:27:48  <andythenorth> hmm
10:27:53  <andythenorth> scroll annoyingly zooms :P
10:27:59  <andythenorth> which idiot did that?
10:28:06  <Markavian> scroll conviniently zooms like it always :)
10:28:11  <Markavian> like always*
10:28:14  <peter1138> well, there is an option... edit the source :)
10:28:17  <peter1138> it didn't always zoom
10:28:26  <Markavian> it always did since OpenTTD
10:28:30  <peter1138> well yes
10:28:49  <Markavian> peter 23.22MB of source code downloading at the moment
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10:29:57  <peter1138> 23.22?
10:30:07  <Markavian> so far, doesn't tell me how much its downloading
10:30:21  <Markavian> searched for "mouse pan" "pan" "mouse" "map scroll" any other suggestions for the bug tracker?
10:30:50  <Rubidium> tried the left-scroll thingy?
10:30:54  <peter1138> cos the source is 7MB
10:31:16  <Rubidium> peter1138: subversion without compression? git/hg?
10:31:33  <peter1138> hm
10:32:08  * andythenorth is stumped by how much primary industry should cost
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10:32:34  <peter1138> okay, with "reverse scroll direction" on, and the cursor not fixed, scrolling is quite natural
10:32:47  <andythenorth> costs in line with secondary industries *if* prospecting is used?
10:32:52  <andythenorth> seems fairest
10:32:57  <andythenorth> what's most evil?
10:33:33  <andythenorth> reasonable cost, low chance of prospecting success ?
10:33:42  <Markavian> Rubidium, yes that worked
10:33:48  <andythenorth> FIRS doesn't try to discourage building primary industry
10:33:49  <Markavian> FS#3406 - Move mouse cursor while scrolling option
10:34:10  <peter1138> Markavian, damn you
10:34:14  <Markavian> "Right now when you do a right click scroll, the mouse cursor will stay in a fixed position on screen, while the rest of the scene moves as you move the mouse. I like to make the mouse cursor move as well. The intended effect is that the mouse cursor keep pointing at same the location in the scene. "
10:34:16  <peter1138> Markavian, now that i've just tried both ways
10:34:21  <peter1138> it feels really odd not to move, lol
10:34:26  <peter1138> Markavian, src/window.cpp
10:34:30  <peter1138> _cursor.fix_at = true
10:34:36  <peter1138> change to false
10:34:42  <Markavian> ok
10:34:45  * andythenorth is missing something
10:34:57  <andythenorth> my cursor moves, or not moves, depending on if I press cmd-key
10:34:58  <Markavian> I have a feeling I'm gonna need to download a dozen other things before I can build this properly, but I'm committed.
10:35:16  <peter1138> for some reason, i'm pretty sure the cursor used to disappear when scrolling
10:35:22  <peter1138> but i'm probably misremembering
10:35:48  <Markavian> the way I usually use mouse pan/scroll is I see something just off screen, I drag it closer to me, then I click on it --- which means I expect the thing I want to be directly under my cursor
10:35:56  <Markavian> just saying, its much faster for me as a user
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10:39:37  <Markavian> updated the bug tracker with a comment
10:40:27  <Markavian> what do people recommend for compiling OpenTTD on windows?
10:42:26  <planetmaker> :-D half a billion purchase cost for a train engine might be over-doing things ;-)
10:44:50  <andythenorth> really?
10:48:15  <FauxFaux> I really don't like playing with inflation on. :(
10:49:45  <Markavian> me neither
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11:02:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21330 /trunk/src/lang/ (danish.txt estonian.txt): -Fix: two wrong ISO country codes
11:09:28  <Markavian> http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_MinGW << this evening's entertainment
11:12:18  <Markavian> one bug so far, mkdir /local/bin/ fails in Windows 7, had to call mkdir /local/ then mkdir /local/bin/
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11:16:27  <Thror> hi
11:17:04  <Alberth> hi
11:17:10  <Markavian> hello
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11:21:11  <roboboy> hello
11:25:40  <planetmaker> hi
11:30:14  <Xaroth> Markavian: mkdir -p /local/bin ...
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11:31:28  <Markavian> "mkdir /local/bin"
11:31:29  <Markavian>  << thx, didn't know there was a flag I could set
11:31:59  <Xaroth> -p just makes sure all parent dirs area also present, if not, it makes em
11:33:49  <Markavian> altho I'm 100% a windows user, amusingly most my programming experience with filesystems comes from using PHP on linux servers, never had this problem before
11:34:22  <Markavian> The wiki guide is very easy to follow, can see why people like MingW
11:44:08  *** retro [~retro@ip-62-245-83-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
11:44:12  <retro> hello
11:44:18  <retro> How to get my server to public server list ?
11:44:36  <retro> I'm running auto nightly build server (there's no one now).
11:44:48  <Xaroth> it's alllll in the manual
11:44:56  <retro> Xaroth: in readme ?
11:45:00  <Xaroth> or on the wiki
11:45:08  <retro> Xaroth: I was searching wiki with no result.
11:45:32  <Xaroth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Dedicated_server
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11:46:40  <retro> Xaroth: thx
11:49:10  <retro> Xaroth: how long does it take to show in public list ?
11:49:24  <Rubidium> usually less than 10 seconds
11:49:25  <Xaroth> nearly instantly
11:49:37  <retro> Xaroth: :(, not there
11:49:43  <Rubidium> how are you looking at the public list?
11:49:46  <retro> looking http://www.openttd.org/en/servers
11:50:49  <Rubidium> the dedicated server does have some output about the advertising it's doing
11:51:04  <Rubidium> so if it fails it'll give you some clues that are generally wrong
11:51:21  <Rubidium> if you don't see those advertising messages at all, then you need to enable advertising in the configuration file
11:51:35  <retro> I enabled it, but nothing in log about adversting.
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11:52:01  <Rubidium> did you change the config file while OpenTTD was running?
11:52:16  <Rubidium> if so, shutting down OpenTTD has overwritten the config file
11:52:36  <retro> Rubidium: yep
11:52:42  <retro> Rubidium: i'll try again
11:53:28  <Markavian> *squee* compiling OpenTTD
11:53:53  <Markavian> they should make this a uni assignment
11:54:14  <retro> It is still overwrtitting my config.
11:54:31  <Rubidium> then shut down openttd first
11:54:39  <Rubidium> *all* openttds
11:56:24  <retro> Rubidium: ok, it's working now
11:56:30  <retro> thank you all folks
11:56:47  <retro> Feel free to try it - http://www.openttd.org/en/server/37959
11:56:53  <retro> But first i nedd to do some settings.
11:57:15  <retro> Do you now about some good config file for auto nightly server ?
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11:58:20  <Wolf01> hello
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11:59:35  <planetmaker> retro: what is the definition of 'good'?
11:59:58  <retro> planetmaker: What map size is good for this, company removing and etc.
12:00:25  <planetmaker> only limit I'd put is 1 million tiles at most
12:00:31  <planetmaker> maybe only half a million
12:00:57  <planetmaker> games get too sluggish too quickly otherwise
12:01:32  <retro> 1024x1024 good ?
12:02:07  <planetmaker> it's the max I'd use, but yes
12:02:35  <Markavian> call me strange, but I always use 128x512 maps so I have long thin maps... I then work my way down from one end of the map to the other, and I get to have really really really really really really really really really really long straight line routes
12:02:44  <planetmaker> Otherwise: just use the settings _you_ like
12:02:51  <planetmaker> (or which your players want)
12:03:08  <planetmaker> Markavian: nothing beats 64x2048 ;-)
12:03:18  <planetmaker> was a very nice game acutally
12:03:23  <Markavian> haha
12:03:24  <Rubidium> planetmaker: in toyland! :)
12:03:31  <planetmaker> yup!
12:03:39  <planetmaker> well. that game wasn't, though :-(
12:03:42  <Markavian> I tried 64, but gets a bit cramped :]. .. acutally, you can turn off water at the edges  now, hmm
12:04:04  <retro> I can make it dynamic. Every night it will restart game with new build.
12:04:23  <planetmaker> good. Nightly versions?
12:04:26  <retro> One day will be 1024x1024, other day 512x51, 1024x512
12:04:29  <retro> planetmaker: yes
12:04:33  <planetmaker> sweet :-)
12:04:55  <retro> planetmaker: http://www.openttd.org/en/server/37959
12:06:12  <Markavian> peter1138, yay, built openttd with that cursor fix, works like I want it now. thanks for your help
12:06:46  <planetmaker> I haven't tried, retro, you may find http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=51376 helpful
12:07:46  <KenjiE20> Markavian: O.o there is a strange crossover between openttd and bay12
12:07:51  <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/admintools <-- also maybe useful, though most is not (yet) in a really operational state
12:08:41  <Xaroth> I was working on a python lib a-la joan
12:08:45  <Xaroth> not gotten it working yet tho
12:08:47  <retro> planetmaker: I'll write own scripts and web config. I'll release it on forums when ready.
12:09:08  <planetmaker> right :-)
12:09:09  <retro> planetmaker: I don't like PHP.
12:09:14  <planetmaker> hehe
12:09:15  <Markavian> KenjiE20, those damned computer scientists, can't they find some other games to play?
12:09:37  <planetmaker> Personally I don't care as long as it works for me ;-)
12:09:48  *** RjR [RjR@seagate.surgehost.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:11:20  <retro> Is it possible to set when no company on server to stop time ?
12:11:26  <planetmaker> yes
12:11:29  <retro> Or when no players ?
12:11:30  <planetmaker> min_active_clients
12:11:54  <retro> planetmaker: and do you think it is good to set it to 1 ?
12:12:56  <planetmaker> on our coop server we have it set to two ;-)
12:13:04  <planetmaker> on our stable playground to 1
12:14:01  <Ammler> if you restart daily anyway, maybe not needed to pause
12:14:11  <retro> Ammler: i think too
12:15:34  <retro> OK, so when game runs 24 hours from 1950, it will end when ? Around 2100 ?
12:15:55  <Ammler> 1year ~ 14mins
12:16:00  <Rubidium> @calc 24*3600/2.22/365.25
12:16:00  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 106.554192796
12:16:16  <Rubidium> @calc 1950+(24*3600/2.22/365.25)
12:16:16  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 2056.5541928
12:16:20  <Ammler> or a bit exacter ^ ;-)
12:16:26  <retro> Thank you.
12:17:23  <planetmaker> and automatic build and restart via cronjob? :-)
12:17:40  <retro> planetmaker: yes
12:17:45  <planetmaker> there was once a server which restarted even automatically upon crash and / or sent notices to the admin
12:17:58  <retro> planetmaker: i was playing there i think
12:18:04  <retro> planetmaker: but it is not anymore in server list
12:18:13  <planetmaker> it doesn't exist anymore
12:18:23  <retro> planetmaker: i read on their webpages, they switched to ipv6 (i haven't yet at home)
12:18:33  <retro> planetmaker: and then they disappeard
12:18:34  <planetmaker> their?
12:18:49  <retro> planetmaker: i don't remember :(
12:19:00  <planetmaker> maybe we talk about different ones, but doesn't matter anyway. They're all gone
12:19:01  <Ammler> would be nice to have a active non-coop nightly server back :-)
12:19:02  <planetmaker> :-(
12:19:04  <Markavian> where can you submit scenarios?
12:19:15  <planetmaker> in the forums or bananas
12:19:20  <retro> Ammler: working on
12:19:27  <retro> Ammler: just need help with config
12:19:34  <Markavian> ban..an..as?
12:19:39  <retro> I haven't play OTTD for a half year.
12:19:54  <planetmaker> retro: really any default will mostly do :-)
12:20:04  <Markavian> BaNaNaS is a content service, which offers Base graphics/sound And Newgrfs And Noais And Scenarios.
12:20:10  <planetmaker> I'd activate realistic acceleration and deactivate inflation
12:20:25  <retro> planetmaker: just switch size
12:20:28  <Ammler> isn't that default now too?
12:20:37  <planetmaker> switch size?
12:21:40  <Markavian> I can't see an option for submitting a file to bananas, so I assume there isn't one?
12:21:43  <planetmaker> Ammler: I think not
12:21:52  <planetmaker> Markavian: look better
12:21:55  <planetmaker> log in
12:21:59  <Markavian> I'm logged in
12:22:05  <planetmaker> -> managers
12:22:24  <Markavian> "In order to view this section, you need to be a manager. Please sign up here to become one." oh. *clicks link*
12:22:47  <Ammler> planetmaker: at least accel were forgotten from the setting overhaul then
12:22:54  <planetmaker> yes
12:22:58  <Ammler> don't think, that is intendend
12:22:59  <planetmaker> probably
12:23:23  <planetmaker> Maybe there can be another overhaul before 1.1. It needs someone to compile a list of needed changes then
12:23:51  <Ammler> I wouldn't know another setting except that
12:23:53  * Rubidium blames Eddi|zuHause
12:24:21  <Ammler> well, coop does have some other changes, but those might not be mainstream :-)
12:24:39  <planetmaker> hehe. yeah
12:24:54  <planetmaker> noise level?
12:25:16  <planetmaker> what is the default signal cylcle setting?
12:25:27  <Rubidium> (or at least for all settings from before 1.1.0-RC1)
12:25:28  <planetmaker> terraforming algorithm etc
12:25:30  <retro> planetmaker, Ammler or who wants. Can you help me with server settings ?
12:25:39  <retro> uploaded conifg - https://gist.github.com/716645
12:25:43  <Ammler> retro: as planetmakersaid, use default
12:25:51  <Ammler> and change acceleration
12:25:53  <retro> fell free to post a comment with some improvements
12:26:24  <Ammler> there might come some changes with using it...
12:26:38  <Ammler> just keep beeing flexible ;-)
12:26:38  <planetmaker> the defaults are there for a reason. Otherwise: vary settings between games: climate, size, town number, industry density
12:26:44  <Eddi|zuHause> * Rubidium blames Eddi|zuHause <-- i resend that!
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12:27:00  <retro> Ammler: you mean train_acceleration_model = 1 ?
12:27:04  <Ammler> yep
12:27:22  <planetmaker> exclusive transport rights = 0
12:27:42  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yes, you did resend what I wrote :)
12:27:44  <Markavian> http://mkv25.net/showcase/halo_a5_smoothscaled.png << well, I added it
12:27:49  <Ammler> maybe you also wanna run 1 or 2 ais :-)
12:27:54  <Markavian> http://mkv25.net/showcase/Halo%20a6.scn
12:27:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i had acceleration model in my diff, but you decided to not include it
12:27:59  <Markavian> I am learning today, thank you IRC people.
12:28:05  <planetmaker> Now, that might indeed be interesting, Ammler :-)
12:28:32  <retro> Ammler: AI ? Why ?
12:28:36  <planetmaker> Fun
12:28:52  <planetmaker> and feedback for those guys, too ;-)
12:29:04  <Ammler> and imply activity on the map :-)
12:29:04  <retro> sure I can
12:29:16  <planetmaker> and it adds some activity to the map. Exactly
12:29:16  <retro> Maybe I can run two servers. With/Without AI.
12:29:17  * Rubidium pokes planetmaker
12:29:24  * planetmaker screetches
12:29:40  <Rubidium> you're doing this intro game "challenge", right? Why not a default settings challenge as well? Let everyone vote on all settings :)
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12:30:15  <planetmaker> :-) interesting idea :-)
12:30:26  * Ammler votes for replacing trunk intro game
12:30:37  <cypher> Hi there. Please, is there a way to forbid trains making 180 degree turns on the rail?
12:30:57  <retro> Rubidium: Didn't know that is ingame possible.
12:31:34  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: if you make another version 4 savegame for trunk ;)
12:31:36  <planetmaker> Ammler: that's not going to happen :-) - It's a regression test
12:31:56  <Ammler> planetmaker: that is poor and lazy excuse
12:32:00  <Rubidium> Ammler: they've helped me numerous times with saveload issues
12:32:31  <planetmaker> Ammler: why? Stables are the released things and they'll have different ones
12:36:05  <retro> cypher: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=825190#p825190
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12:57:33  <Ammler> planetmaker: you should port the version detection of source bundles to openttd ;-)
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12:58:03  <norbert79> gday
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12:58:52  <norbert79> Boy, these spams are growing in a large number by now
12:59:25  <planetmaker> Ammler: which and why? You mean that I 'hack' the version into the Makefiles?
12:59:50  <Ammler> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=915111#p915111 <-- this
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13:00:01  <Ammler> norbert79: talking about spam is spam too ;-)
13:00:29  <norbert79> Ammler: I was talking about meat ;-)
13:00:40  <Ammler> :-D
13:01:18  <Rubidium> yes, a spam burger with teriyaki sauce is quite tasty
13:01:24  <Alberth> that's off-topic unless you are making a farm newgrf :p
13:01:39  <norbert79> Ammler: This is a huuuge one :D http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/The_Spam-mobile.jpg
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13:05:19  <peter1138> spam spam spam spam
13:05:57  * norbert79 sees a viking ship closing in
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13:26:59  <Markavian> http://i51.tinypic.com/nwn5gw.png << I love this industrial station pack
13:28:06  <planetmaker> few who don't ;-)
13:28:37  <retro> Markavian: name ?
13:28:46  <norbert79> Markavian: http://www.deviantart.com/download/177430679/transport_tycoon_3_by_norbert79-d2xmydz.png - Guess I do too :)
13:29:21  * andythenorth should so rework ISR, but discovered it was hard
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13:32:36  <planetmaker> andythenorth: start with that only when NML supports stations ;-)
13:32:47  <planetmaker> And then rewrite it.
13:32:52  <andythenorth> from scratch?
13:32:54  <andythenorth> bleargh
13:32:58  <norbert79> :)
13:33:00  <planetmaker> :-)
13:33:10  <andythenorth> I almost think ISR is too big
13:33:16  <andythenorth> I don't use quite a lot of it
13:33:17  <norbert79> Nah, I disagree
13:33:23  <Ammler> it is already written the 2nd time :-)
13:33:26  <planetmaker> Another reason to rewrite it from scratch. But I don't think it's too big
13:33:35  <norbert79> Me neither, I just love it
13:33:43  <norbert79> besides, I would even extend it a bit :)
13:33:49  <planetmaker> Once FIRS has economies it'd be too big, too, otherwise
13:34:22  <norbert79> I prefer GRF's with as much content as possible. Less GRF's to load
13:34:38  <Markavian> retro, Industrial_Stations_Renewal-0.8.0.tar
13:34:55  <planetmaker> downloadable via online content
13:34:58  <norbert79> retro: Use the game's built in NewGRF download section
13:35:03  <Markavian> I've also got FIRS_Industry_Replacement_Set-0.5.5.tar installed, but I'm gonna have to restart my map, 'cause I didn't have it turned on when I generated the map
13:35:29  <norbert79> since as I heard you cannot just replace it during run anymore :-/ :)
13:35:35  <Ammler> retro: with console, easiest is to simply download everything
13:35:56  <Markavian> norbert79, very cool - I broke up the long line of grain silos because it didn't look right
13:36:31  <retro> thx guys
13:36:34  <norbert79> Markavian: You would be surprised, that some places have indeed this ammount of silos. Besides it was just done by the automatic group, so I didn't modify anything on it
13:37:02  <Markavian> I find myself flicking through the buildings/single tile sets and customising most the tiles on my station >_>
13:37:03  <norbert79> Markavian: I was thinking about on doing small modifications to the station for 'realism' but I concentrated on other issues
13:37:23  <Markavian> the station menu for that mod could do with a bigger tile window to preview the different options
13:37:32  <Markavian> but, meh :] I'm happy
13:37:36  <norbert79> Markavian: http://norbert79.deviantart.com/gallery/26407951 - here the complete set
13:38:56  <Markavian> impressive stuff
13:39:06  <Markavian> one way roads, that wasn't around last time I played :D
13:39:31  <norbert79> thank you!
13:39:50  <norbert79> The best I am proud of is the station seen at picture 1
13:40:03  <norbert79> worked some time on it, till I get that real and useful
13:40:46  <Markavian> the spare required dwarfs anything I'm working on at the moment, hilly landscape, don't have the cash to build
13:40:57  <Markavian> I think I know why I don't pick hilly maps any more...
13:41:27  <norbert79> yeah, well, if you haven't got the money, it's always like russian roulette
13:41:33  <norbert79> one bad move, and bang
13:41:39  <norbert79> well, depending on difficulty
13:41:48  <Markavian> I never got much joy from long trains, I always found 8 length (7 cart) shuttles worked best, and then I made massive interconnected 2-track networks across the entire landscape
13:42:02  <norbert79> ehjm
13:42:06  <norbert79> Check picture 4
13:42:16  <norbert79> Now think again :)
13:42:24  <Markavian> good ol' cloverleaf
13:42:34  <norbert79> a bit extended ;-)
13:42:39  <V453000> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/2/22/PSG186.png
13:42:41  <V453000> ISR in action :p
13:42:43  <norbert79> two track cloverleaf
13:42:47  <Markavian> double tile turns, I never built them that big
13:42:58  <norbert79> Markavian: It is usefu
13:43:00  <norbert79> l
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13:43:29  <norbert79> V453000: Well done, and how do trains enter the area seen on upper left?
13:43:44  <V453000> thats the point, eyecandy trains :p
13:43:47  <V453000> these dont go anywhere
13:43:58  <norbert79> Aaaah, tricky :)
13:44:03  <Markavian> V453000, WHAT DOES IT EVEN DO?
13:44:05  <Markavian> yeah
13:44:05  <Markavian> lol
13:44:22  <Markavian> clever layout but pointless, I was a bit confused for a moment
13:44:23  <norbert79> some is eyecandy, but looks more 'real'
13:44:32  <norbert79> yeah, it has it's limit
13:44:38  <norbert79> does not support long trains
13:44:41  <Markavian> I was trying to work out what all the depots were for
13:44:57  <norbert79> forced servicing
13:45:20  <norbert79> In my opinion it doesn't make too much sense
13:45:25  <Xaroth> heh, entertaining
13:45:30  <norbert79> Indeed !
13:45:42  <Xaroth> I connect on admin port, works.. I send a join packet, and instead I get a disconnected message
13:45:45  <Xaroth> not even an error
13:45:47  <Xaroth> something's wrong :o
13:46:03  <norbert79> Router issue?
13:46:13  <V453000> wrong :)
13:46:22  <V453000> trains change from wood to paper there
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13:46:44  <V453000> see that all entering trains are wood, exiting are paper
13:46:48  <Markavian> for servicing I usually put a way point depot on the map and force them into it every loop
13:46:57  <norbert79> Markavian: Luckily I have access to a hungarian site, which lists all current or older trainstation's layout plans, and I am trying to implement into the game
13:47:21  <norbert79> Markavian: It is in hungarian, but pictures speak for themselves: http://allomasok.uw.hu/
13:48:22  <Markavian> apparently Australia doesn't have very good internet's to .hu
13:48:34  <V453000> its not for servicing ...
13:48:36  <V453000> nvm
13:48:42  <norbert79> V453000: So you get a train there, it brings wood, then you force it to a depot, and how do you made it possible that the trains are refitted for paper automatically?
13:48:54  <V453000> by orders
13:49:00  <norbert79> V453000: Ah, right...
13:49:10  <norbert79> but it's a constant expense then, right?
13:49:25  <V453000> you mean the refit costs something
13:49:28  <norbert79> yes
13:49:31  <V453000> yes, so what
13:49:39  <V453000> depends on train set
13:49:49  <V453000> for example Tropic Refurbishment Set has free refit prices
13:49:59  <norbert79> Ahha... No, I am just recalculating the business side of this solution
13:50:18  <Markavian> norbert79, uhuh, I've never seen railway layouts like this before
13:50:40  <norbert79> Markavian: These are the hungarian layouts for almost all possible town/village/city
13:50:47  <norbert79> these are real copies
13:50:51  <V453000> when you play openttd for money, it sucks :p
13:51:09  <norbert79> V453000: Not really, just look at my set of pictures :)Ö
13:51:20  <V453000> I did
13:51:24  <norbert79> V453000: It looks good and it is based in business decisions :)
13:51:35  <norbert79> on
13:51:56  <V453000> yes, but from networking point of view it has a low capacity :p
13:51:57  <Xaroth> ooh ooh it works, haw
13:52:01  * Xaroth was being stupid
13:52:02  <Markavian> spent all of my 500K GBP starting loan on 2 wood trains, 3 grain, 3 livestock, 6 stations, hill tracks
13:52:08  <Xaroth> first len, then packetID...
13:52:40  <norbert79> V453000: Define networking capacity... Besides I only allow 2 trains for longer trains, it still brings the same ammount of stuff there and has less service costing :)
13:53:16  <V453000> nah just ignore me
13:53:30  <norbert79> V453000: I am not, cause I see potiential in your methods too
13:53:39  <norbert79> V453000: To be honest I really admired such solutions
13:53:54  <norbert79> It's almost art
13:54:43  <norbert79> what do I say.. It is art... It looks awesome, and it still gets the job done
13:55:02  <V453000> my point was, not allowing 2 trains but 2000 :p
13:55:11  <norbert79> :)
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13:55:53  <norbert79> I am more like trying finding the balance...
13:55:57  <V453000> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/6/66/PSG182.png this is still a nice combination with the good looking part  :p
13:56:00  <norbert79> between ammount of trains and layout
13:56:18  <norbert79> YUM... lol
13:56:54  <V453000> from my point of view, eyecandy shall never limit throughput ... it is possibly to make it not interrupt the station, so why not :)
13:56:59  <norbert79> Very nice, but why the combination of bridges and entry
13:57:12  <norbert79> whats the problem with normal ro-ro layout splitting to more tracks?
13:57:26  <V453000> it is unoriginal :p
13:57:32  <norbert79> thats true :)
13:57:35  <V453000> this works the same way
13:57:37  <V453000> basically
13:57:45  <norbert79> Yeah I see
13:58:28  <V453000> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/a/a6/PSG197.png this is also eyecandy :p
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13:58:47  <V453000> - the bridges are replaced with tunnels "just because" :)
13:58:55  <V453000> and tunnels take more space in some cases
13:58:58  <norbert79> lol
13:59:22  <norbert79> Well, this is also one way playing the game :)
13:59:50  <norbert79> have seen similar projects, where one has built a Simcity 4 City with 6 million inhabitants
14:01:11  <norbert79> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdL6VR8lVCs
14:02:03  <norbert79> V453000: Maybe you could do some similar project, having the full 1024x1024 built, and used and having tousands of vehicles/trains/etc :)
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14:02:18  <V453000> ...
14:02:31  <V453000> 256*256 can easily take 5000 cars
14:02:38  <V453000> and playing on large maps is boring
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14:20:15  <Wolf01> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vXxjQaflY4&feature=related lol, in simcity they can build better road infrastructures than in OTTD which is a transport game and focused on building good infrastructures
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14:23:14  <retro> Sorry, connection dropped.
14:23:17  <retro> I ask again.
14:23:20  <norbert79> Wolf01: I somehow can agree with it
14:23:28  <norbert79> Wolf01: Hurts, but it's true
14:23:33  <retro> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/a/a6/PSG197.png - what's that rails O in left down corner ?
14:23:54  <norbert79> Wolf01: Like missing of diagonal bridges...
14:24:49  <Wolf01> diagonal bridges is the last problem imho, the best would be to have diagonal roads instead
14:24:50  <Alberth> retro: priority line probably
14:25:08  <norbert79> Wolf01: Yes, that would give more flexibility
14:25:13  <retro> Alberth: :'(
14:25:22  <Alberth> ?
14:26:11  <Wolf01> and that always-in-the-edge feature called custom bridgeheads... always at 1 step of being working and always abandoned
14:27:08  <norbert79> I have also been lazy recently on my hungarian grf pack... But my excuse might be, that I am a Family Guy... :)
14:27:13  <Wolf01> but we must always thank the devs for the fully flexible track/road layout under bridges
14:27:25  <peter1138> tron, then
14:27:32  <norbert79> hey, compared to original TTD, thats at lest improved
14:27:39  <norbert79> least
14:28:09  <norbert79> It gives finally much more flexibility
14:28:28  <Wolf01> and celestar for the multiple truck/bus stops
14:30:22  <V453000> retro: ?
14:30:22  <norbert79> Where I see the problem is, that if we want to have Simcity 4 like possibilites the game must be reprogrammed from scratch, but neither has the team that ammount of time or financial support to do so
14:30:22  <V453000> I think you mean the tracks that are for pre-signals
14:30:22  <V453000> we call them priorities
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14:30:22  <norbert79> exactly
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14:30:22  <peter1138> i call them ugly
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14:30:22  <norbert79> Simcity 4 was programmed by professional payed programmers
14:30:22  <FauxFaux> Paid.
14:30:22  <norbert79> paid, right, sorry
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14:31:02  <Wolf01> we have great hearth programmers instead, and we can always put our hands in the code, at least were we are able to do things
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14:31:17  <norbert79> Wolf01: Indeed... It has it's pros and cons too
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14:34:52  <norbert79> Wolf01: And best of it... We are not depending on a single company
14:34:52  <Belugas> hello
14:34:52  <norbert79> Wolf01: So noone can surprise us by removing master server support for the game and such :)
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14:34:52  <norbert79> Hi Belugas
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14:34:52  <Wolf01> hi Belugas
14:34:52  <Belugas> hello boy :)
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14:34:54  <Belugas> due to bad weather, i'm gonna work@home for work
14:35:08  <norbert79> Belugas: Bad weather? Where?
14:35:27  <Belugas> hem... montreal
14:35:31  <Belugas> freezing rain
14:35:40  <norbert79> Ah... Thats bad
14:35:43  <norbert79> indeed
14:35:43  <Belugas> buses ar not wqorking
14:35:46  <Markavian> ~idea openttd as a browser plugin; play it in a tab while you (work)
14:35:48  <Wolf01> bad weather here too, windy and looks like snowy mixed with rain
14:36:12  <norbert79> Markavian: Would be nice, but I think Mozilla has came up with such solutions
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14:36:20  <Belugas> Markavian : cool :)  show me the diff !
14:36:24  <norbert79> Wolf01: Where do you live? UK?
14:36:32  <Wolf01> italy
14:36:33  <Belugas> Wolf01, is it cold?
14:36:36  <norbert79> Belugas: It was an idea, not yet implemented :)
14:36:37  <Wolf01> 4°C
14:36:57  <norbert79> Wolf01: Well it's winter alrighjt
14:37:04  <Belugas> 1, here not so bad
14:37:13  <Wolf01> yesterday there were 12°C
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14:37:53  <norbert79> well it's ok here, bit cold, ~4°C, no rain, no wind
14:38:00  <norbert79> but it will be freezing during night
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14:40:17  <Wolf01> Terkhen, I just noticed your partial refit patch: really cool :D
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14:44:52  * andythenorth wonders how to have two versions of HEQS in the wild?
14:45:08  <andythenorth> one with proper running costs, and the current stupid version :P
14:45:19  <peter1138> hmm?
14:45:23  <planetmaker> hu?
14:45:29  <lugo> ?
14:45:33  <planetmaker> why do you want both?
14:45:49  <andythenorth> for players who are used to the current stupid costs?
14:45:53  <andythenorth> parameter :P
14:45:54  <andythenorth> I guess
14:46:01  <andythenorth> I have an aversion to parameters
14:46:20  <planetmaker> yes. You left before my paste was complete ;-)
14:46:34  <planetmaker> [12:16]	<planetmaker>	andy... http://pastebin.com/q7HxbCCt oh well
14:46:43  <Markavian> has anyone thought about making bigger icon sets for OpenTTD, is it even possible? its kinda a struggle to use some of them
14:46:51  <andythenorth> he cool
14:47:11  <planetmaker> nml -o ogfx-trains.nfo ogfx-trains.nml ;-)
14:47:16  <planetmaker> *nmlc...
14:47:33  <andythenorth> ok I know what to do
14:47:44  <planetmaker> you can paste it verbatim, I think
14:47:54  <planetmaker> just make sure you fit it properly into the a14
14:47:57  <andythenorth> I'll set costs on vehicles properly, but offer the option for 'cheap'
14:48:28  <andythenorth> that will serve for players who have a game with current HEQS bargain basement costs
14:48:52  <planetmaker> making it adjustable this way might be better to adjust it to future and existing vehicle sets
14:48:57  <planetmaker> whatever there are
14:49:07  <JFBelugas> Markavian, honestly, if someone though it wouldm be cool to have bigger icons, i would assume it;s not there for a few reasons
14:49:15  <JFBelugas> 1) he could not make them
14:49:22  <JFBelugas> 2) he forgot to show them
14:49:41  <JFBelugas> 3) they could not get integrated for some techinlcal reasons
14:50:16  <planetmaker> 4) his name is Zephyris and he showed them
14:50:19  <planetmaker> :-P
14:50:48  <JFBelugas> cool, planetmaker :) was not aware
14:50:53  <planetmaker> even as newgrf ;-)
14:51:16  <JFBelugas> so it's a 3)b then>?  or a "nnnaaa... don't look good enough" ?
14:51:20  <Wolf01> OMG I just realised I can now create a GRF for rail planning, building ghost tracks without cost (maybe only the clear land cost) and then upgrade the tracks to another tracktype with the conversion tool
14:51:24  <planetmaker> yep
14:51:32  <Markavian> well, I'd make them if they were easy to add
14:51:35  <andythenorth> hmm
14:51:46  <andythenorth> if I screw with base costs  for RVs, affects all RV sets?
14:51:51  <Markavian> actually, someone I was talking to suggested that maybe TTD could be played with a touchscreen
14:51:52  <andythenorth> or just my newgrf?
14:51:52  <planetmaker> it's that it doesn't look nice so far everywhere. I don't know the exact problems anymore
14:52:42  <Wolf01> Markavian, I play OTTD with the wacom tablet, or in my PDA
14:54:01  <Markavian> cool
14:56:36  <planetmaker> JFBelugas: Markavian http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=50095
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15:01:53  <Markavian> reading
15:02:04  <Markavian> neato
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15:21:06  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21331 /trunk/src/ (34 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Make drawing the widgets default behaviour in OnPaint().
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15:34:07  <SHADOW-XIII> what ports ottd connect to online content repository ? seems I cannot access it and need to enable in on the proxy
15:34:09  <SHADOW-XIII> ?
15:34:14  <Alberth> @ports
15:34:14  <DorpsGek> Alberth: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
15:36:19  <SHADOW-XIII> ah thanks
15:36:27  <Xaroth> and 3977 for admin port
15:37:37  <SHADOW-XIII> yay, I can play at work now :P
15:37:50  <Alberth> finally doing some real work :p
15:38:36  <planetmaker> :-P
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15:39:38  <SHADOW-XIII> have to make that damn moodle working and afterwards enjoy ottd
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15:58:39  <norbert79> partial refit looks good, I wish it would go to main
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15:58:54  <norbert79> i mean the idea
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16:03:52  <retro> What is admin port good for ?
16:05:19  <Xaroth> admin stuff
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16:17:11  <norbert79> Later guys
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17:38:56  <w4ldf33> !dl lin32
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17:57:27  <Terkhen> Wolf01: thanks :)
18:00:54  <fonsinchen> When joining a network game, I get a seemingly broken save on the client where the date is 30 days in the future wrt to the server and the random states are different. When loading the resulting network_client.tmp offline everything is fine ... !?!?
18:02:23  <planetmaker> sounds aweful. Reproducable?
18:02:33  <fonsinchen> yes, 100%, everytime the same
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18:02:55  <fonsinchen> ah, you fixed some memory management problems with networking, recently, right?
18:03:09  <planetmaker> yes, there were some fixes
18:03:20  <fonsinchen> maybe I should apply those and try again ...
18:04:27  <Rubidium> that was only leaking (a shitload of) memory though
18:05:56  <fonsinchen> what strikes me is that _tick_counter and _date are consistently 30 days off.
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18:06:05  <fonsinchen> Rather hard to believe that this is by chance.
18:06:33  <Rubidium> true
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18:21:30  <fonsinchen> Uh, why does it load ./save/autosave/network_client.tmp instead of ~/.openttd/save/autosave/network_client.tmp?
18:21:35  <fonsinchen> grrr
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18:23:05  <Rubidium> fonsinchen: good question, got no answer to that :(
18:24:11  <fonsinchen> Clearly that's a bug. It's loading a different file than it just downloaded. I'll post it on FS.
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18:25:48  <Rubidium> that might be related to 4262
18:26:00  <Rubidium> no idea when that changed though
18:26:47  <Rubidium> or whether it's something that has been lingering for eons, just someone built one of those "not placing in home directory by default" binaries and ran that to join a server
18:27:26  <fonsinchen> SP_WORKING_DIR shouldn't be allowed as search path when joining a network game.
18:28:17  <fonsinchen> in fact the search path should probably be restricted to SP_PERSONAL_DIR
18:29:08  <Rubidium> I guess it should get a hard path, and then load from that hard path without going through the path resolving i.e. using "NO_DIR"
18:35:13  <fonsinchen> There you go: FS#4271
18:36:41  <fonsinchen> So, that has sidetracked me for quite some time now ... let's see if I can reproduce that desync without having a second network_client.tmp around.
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18:43:52  <IchGuckLive> hellboy kommt heut abend
18:43:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r21332 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
18:43:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:43:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 39 changes by arnau
18:43:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 15 changes by marek995
18:43:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 5 changes by glx
18:43:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 17 changes by lorenzodv
18:43:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: polish - 2 changes by xaxa
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18:50:02  <fonsinchen> OK, now I'm on the right track. The server does one more call to Random in the ship path finder than the client ... did you change something around there recently?
18:50:14  <fonsinchen> -Random [832/16] /home/alve/projekte/openttd/src/pathfinder/opf/opf_ship.cpp:164
18:50:32  <Rubidium> no
18:51:04  <Rubidium> but it might very well be a slightly different state after loading (cached speed?)
18:51:42  <Rubidium> the different random call is "just" the first sing something went wrong somewhere
18:51:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r21333 /trunk/src/lang/czech.txt: -Fix: failure of WT3 to properly validate some string...
18:52:05  <Rubidium> it's more often not related than that it is related
18:53:30  <Eddi|zuHause> shouldn't "someone" start fixing WT3? ;)
18:53:53  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no, Fred should do that
18:56:20  <fonsinchen> btw, are you aware of those bogus "cache mismatch" messages for trains with -ddesync=2? They happen because ConsistChanged() in openttd.cpp:1181 actually invalidates the cache.
18:56:49  <Rubidium> no, I'm not
18:56:58  <fonsinchen> another bug report then ...
18:57:05  <SmatZ> :P
18:57:27  * Rubidium assigns that to Terkhen
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18:58:14  <Rubidium> but if the cache is invalidated and not rebuild, then the whole cache checking won't work anymore
19:00:09  <Rubidium> and thus pointless, which is sad as it has been occasionally useful
19:00:50  <fonsinchen> it's only broken for trains.
19:01:32  <fonsinchen> road vehicles and aircraft have an UpdateCache method and ships aren't checked.
19:02:19  <fonsinchen> Oh, ships aren't checked ... that _is_ interesting.
19:02:59  <Terkhen> hmmm... sounds ugly but it is probably my fault :P
19:05:15  <Terkhen> fonsinchen: thank you for the report, I'll check it soon
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19:17:17  <SmatZ> fonsinchen: are you running trunk?
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19:17:42  <SmatZ> in trunk, it should be line 1166
19:18:12  <planetmaker> should be cargodist ;-)
19:20:04  <SmatZ> planetmaker: there's a lot of spam at forums :(
19:20:15  <planetmaker> yes :-(
19:20:37  <SmatZ> you can't delete it?
19:21:06  <Rubidium> as he's an OpenTTD developer he can only mess with the OpenTTD subforum
19:21:13  <planetmaker> SmatZ: only in OpenTTD*
19:21:16  <Rubidium> which is remarkably free of Lady*
19:21:20  <SmatZ> oh :(
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19:24:53  <fonsinchen> ah, no I'm running cargodist from a few weeks back.
19:25:04  <fonsinchen> sorry
19:26:17  <planetmaker> orudge could make use of the big delete hammer for LadyROOT maybe
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20:07:02  <fonsinchen> There is a ship callback (CBID_VEHICLE_MODIFY_PROPERTY, PROP_SHIP_SPEED), which returns 192 on the server and 148 on the client with the exact same parameters. Any ideas how to find out more?
20:08:18  <fonsinchen> BTW: Precondition is, I have to join the server once, then disconnect, then join again and then it happens deterministically at a specific tick for a specific vehicle.
20:08:27  *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:10:17  <andythenorth> sounds like our new friend cb10
20:15:04  <Terkhen> hmm... now that ship callback is called less frequently (before it was called in every tick), but the moments in which it is called are very specific and already used for other vehicles
20:15:35  <Yexo> is there any state that can be queried by a newgrf that can change in the meantime?
20:15:53  <Yexo> decoding the newgrf in question might give a hint about that
20:16:28  <Terkhen> IIRC it is called only after loading a game, when buying a new ship, when a ship goes to the depot and while loading/unloading
20:16:29  <andythenorth> which newgrf?
20:19:20  <fonsinchen> actually it isn't called at the place where I get the desync, but the resulting value in the vehicle cache is different. So I caught them both in gdb and checked reran the callback manually
20:20:10  <fonsinchen> That's probably FISH, but it might also be the stock hovercraft
20:20:29  <fonsinchen> ah, no. Probably not as that's no newgrf
20:20:52  <fonsinchen> what speed is 148 or 192 in real numbers?
20:23:32  <Terkhen> value/2 km-ish / h probably, it would fit FISH hovercraft (72 when loaded, 96 otherwise)
20:24:25  <fonsinchen> oh, probably that's the real difference then.
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20:31:29  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: it's the hovercraft
20:31:36  <andythenorth> newgrfs shouldn't cause desyncs though?
20:31:42  <fonsinchen> hmm, on the server the vehicle is loaded and it still has 192 as max_speed in its cache, even though the callback returns 148 now.
20:32:02  <andythenorth> is max_speed also what's shown in vehicle info window?
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20:33:09  <fonsinchen> seems so
20:33:11  <Terkhen> hmmm...
20:33:26  <Terkhen> fonsinchen: which revision are you testing?
20:33:32  <fonsinchen> Load amount is the same on client and server. Obviously the cache hasn't been updated.
20:33:49  <Terkhen> because this behaviour might be caused to an already solved bug (the cache was not updated while loading/unloading for ships)
20:33:52  <fonsinchen> r21147 + cargodist
20:34:02  <planetmaker> you should update ;-)
20:34:10  <fonsinchen> oh
20:34:22  <fonsinchen> do you have a revision number where it was fixed`
20:34:23  <fonsinchen> ?
20:34:30  <Terkhen> @commit 21148
20:34:32  <DorpsGek> Terkhen: Commit by terkhen :: r21148 trunk/src/ship_cmd.cpp (2010-11-11 22:19:27 UTC)
20:34:33  <DorpsGek> Terkhen: -Fix (r21098): Evaluate callback 36 for ship speed as frequently as done for other vehicle types.
20:34:39  <Terkhen> just another revision number more :)
20:34:51  <planetmaker> :-)
20:35:53  <fonsinchen> ok, that was a _big_ waste of time. But at least I found two bugs for you in the process.
20:35:58  <fonsinchen> thanks
20:36:40  <fonsinchen> hrm. On the other hand that doesn't explain why there is a difference between client and server.
20:37:29  <Terkhen> the server updates the cache when the vehicle was unloaded, the client connects when the vehicle is already loaded and sets it to a different value
20:37:30  <planetmaker> [21:37]	<fonsinchen>	ok, that was a _big_ waste of time. But at least I found two bugs for you in the process. <-- the latter is worth something :-)
20:38:56  <fonsinchen> sounds logical
20:39:35  <fonsinchen> That might also explain why I have to connect twice. The real deal is probably connecting in a specific time window where the ship is just loading.
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20:47:04  <andythenorth> those silly old hovercraft :P
20:48:09  <Terkhen> it should happen as long as the ship has a different amount of cargo when the clien connects than when the server updated the max_speed
20:54:18  <andythenorth> planetmaker: the purchase cost code you pasted....should that provide parameter GUI?
20:54:32  <planetmaker> yes
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20:54:42  <andythenorth> hmm
20:54:47  <planetmaker> if you adjust properly the parameter numbers
20:54:56  <planetmaker> and if you define the strings
20:55:05  <andythenorth> I haven't wrapped it in an action 14
20:55:08  <planetmaker> nvm... strings are in NFO
20:55:11  <andythenorth> I might need to do that :P
20:55:17  <planetmaker> :-P yes
20:55:25  <andythenorth> wondered why it wasn't working :o
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21:06:51  * andythenorth had better read action 14 spec
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21:18:13  <planetmaker> :-(
21:19:10  * andythenorth is cooking and can't really do nfo properly :P
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21:43:16  <Terkhen> good night
21:43:20  <Rubidium> night Terkhen
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21:50:45  <Yexo> TrueBrain: any updates on wt3.1? http://noaddedsugar.net/ seems dead
21:51:05  <TrueBrain> Yexo: dih reclaimed that domain, so yes, that URL is dead
21:51:08  <TrueBrain> and no, no progress
21:51:23  <TrueBrain> might go anywhere in the next few weeks, as I most likely have a lot of free time on my hands
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21:51:58  <Yexo> let me know if you can use help writing parts of it, I'd really like to see it done
21:55:16  <planetmaker> good night Terkhen
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22:23:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21334 /trunk/src/network/ (network_client.cpp network_client.h network_server.cpp): -Fix [FS#4271]: make (more) sure that the savegame and transferred file are the same file and not different ones
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22:46:15  <Eddi|zuHause> oh these belgians screwed up big time...
22:47:21  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently, there was a shipment of bananas, and a shipment of "bananas" enroute from colombia, the ship was delayed, and during the hasty unloading, some crates seem to have been mixed up
22:47:44  <Eddi|zuHause> now banana crates with cocaine turn up in supermarkets all over europe ;)
22:48:13  <planetmaker> :-D
22:51:46  <Prof_Frink> "Oh *Belgium*."
22:52:20  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: as long as Flanders and Walloons get an equal amount of cocaine filled bananas it's no issue at all
22:52:32  <Rubidium> it's not like it can bring their government down
22:52:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: it seems most of the findings were in switzerland
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23:04:26  <Rubidium> oh noes... he's using that piece of annoyance?
23:11:28  <SmatZ> hehe
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23:24:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21335 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Change: be a bit more explicit that the game state can get broken by changing NewGRFs
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