Log for #openttd on 3rd December 2010:
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01:03:22  <supermop> hello
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01:24:49  <Spanktracula> Could someone help me with installing the basic 32bpp grfs? I seem to be missing a key step some where along the path the I've been taking on the wiki.
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06:52:54  <Terkhen> good morning
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07:03:10  <lordaro> mornin'
07:04:26  <lordaro> is there a problem with the website(s)?
07:06:23  <lordaro> anyone there?
07:12:39  <SmatZ> hello lordaro
07:12:41  <SmatZ> yes, there is
07:17:05  <SmatZ> TrueBrain / Rubidium ?
07:17:51  <lordaro> seems everyone is still asleep :)
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07:19:51  <avdg> morning
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07:20:40  <SmatZ> hello avdg
07:21:40  <avdg> hmm, wiki down?
07:22:07  <SmatZ> all is down
07:22:47  <avdg> yeah
07:29:01  <lordaro> :(
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07:32:37  <avdg> interesting: google is showing me a cache from 4 now
07:32:40  <avdg> *nov
07:33:20  <lordaro> pinging results in a timeout
07:33:24  <avdg> oh nvm
07:33:37  <avdg> my clock isn't updated :(
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07:42:26  <planetmaker> good morning
07:43:15  <Terkhen> good morning planetmaker
07:44:18  <planetmaker> hi Terkhen :-) want some snow? Seems we have plenty here ;-)
07:44:56  <SmatZ> there is a place in Europe without snow?
07:45:15  <SmatZ> -33°C in Poland, nice :)
07:45:35  <Terkhen> we always have a lot here, but only at the mountains... it's quite rare when it snows down here
07:45:53  <Terkhen> we are at 0ºC here
07:46:02  * Terkhen is not complaining :)
07:46:05  <SmatZ> :)
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07:48:29  <planetmaker> hm, seems it got 2°C warmer over night. Now it's only -6°C instead of -8°C which it as yesterday at around 22h
07:49:08  <planetmaker> (subtract a bit as the thermometer is immediately next to my balcony door)
07:49:29  <SmatZ> :)
07:51:18  <Terkhen> in all my life we only got snow here for four or five days, and only once it was still around after noon
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08:10:02  * Terkhen wonders why is Copper listed twice at the cargo types list
08:10:27  <Terkhen> but it does not say which set uses the piece goods variant...
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08:37:39  <fenster> openttdwiki, bugtracker and main page are not working
08:37:59  <planetmaker> yes, we know
08:38:13  <planetmaker> it's a problem at the data centre we host it
08:38:21  <fenster> oh, and ttforums
08:38:26  <planetmaker> that works
08:39:00  <fenster> ok, forum works
09:00:16  <Terkhen> Stone in FIRS is GRVL, right?
09:01:10  <planetmaker> yes
09:02:02  <Terkhen> ok, thanks
09:02:05  <SmatZ> bah @ people using coal again instead of now expensive gas
09:02:10  <SmatZ> the smell outside is bad :(
09:02:33  <planetmaker> :-(
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09:11:15  <Terkhen> do you know if ECS varies by climate?
09:11:50  <norbert79> Morning
09:11:59  <Terkhen> good morning norbert79
09:12:06  <norbert79> Morning Terkhen
09:13:15  <norbert79> Hmm, there is a small issue with
09:13:20  <norbert79> "Notice: Undefined property: MagpieRSS::$last_modified in /home/openttdcoop/public_html/content/include/ on line 156  Notice: Undefined index: version in /home/openttdcoop/public_html/content/include/ on line 173           "
09:14:13  <fenster> do you know if ECS varies by climate? - there are changes - placement requirements for water pumps varies
09:14:21  <fenster> but maybe sth more
09:14:47  <Terkhen> hmm... sorry, I was referring only to cargos
09:14:57  <Terkhen> it does not seem to vary
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09:22:57  <planetmaker> gah.... no commits either :-(
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10:12:02  *** planetmaker changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.0.5 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | English only | Website currently down for maintenance
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11:10:56  <Ammler> Xaroth: don't you have a kind of test plugin for your lib already?
11:11:09  <Xaroth> test plugin?
11:11:14  <Xaroth> to test what, exactly?
11:11:25  <Ammler> if your lib is working
11:11:26  <planetmaker> I forwarded your admin lib link :-P
11:11:31  <Xaroth> ah
11:11:34  <Xaroth> my lib is working :P
11:11:39  <Ammler> how you know?
11:11:53  <Xaroth> because my DebugFeature shows incomming/outgoing packet traffic
11:12:05  <Ammler> :-)
11:12:11  <Xaroth> in the form of encoded/decoded packets
11:13:33  <Xaroth> Ammler: check for all packages it can send and/or receive ..
11:13:44  <Xaroth> shows some base features one can use
11:14:19  <Xaroth> I suspect BaseChatFeature will be of your interest as well
11:18:03  <Ammler> oh well, it is above my scope, I was just wondering, keeping AP+ working is more than enough for me ;-)
11:18:30  <Xaroth> depends on what you want it to do
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11:46:39  <Phazorx> g'day
11:46:55  <dih> a Phazorx :-)
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11:47:00  <Phazorx> a?
11:47:02  <Phazorx> the!
11:47:07  <dih> :P
11:47:10  <Terkhen> hi Phazorx
11:47:11  <Phazorx> heya dih
11:47:18  <Phazorx> hi Terkhen?
11:47:21  <dih> how are you keeping up sir?
11:47:40  <Phazorx> well i wanted to spend 20 minutes to show my coworkers woners of ottd
11:48:09  <dih> 'owners'?
11:48:10  <Phazorx> based on some older cooper's save i just got... but i cant load it due to bananas not working with rest of openttd site service
11:48:15  <Phazorx> is there an eta on that?
11:48:28  <Phazorx> dih: "wonders" :)
11:48:35  <dih> ah :-D
11:48:56  <Phazorx> also, Ammler!
11:49:06  <dih> in bananas iirc you can specify a min and max ottd version for a grf
11:49:14  <Phazorx> why the heck does grf pack NOT have ttrs and stolen trees?
11:49:41  <Phazorx> dih: if bananes server is not responding to ping - i doubt that would have any effect
11:49:59  <dih> ohhh
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11:50:13  <Terkhen> heh
11:50:19  <dih> 'a' Eddi|zuHause :P
11:50:27  <dih> obviously there are too many of him :-P
11:50:42  <Phazorx> damn clones :)
11:50:49  <Terkhen> for the trees you can try this:
11:50:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, those are nasty :p
11:51:12  <dih> 3 out of 4 voices tell me that i am not schizophrenic
11:51:14  <Phazorx> Terkhen: i kinda need the grfid to match ones that have been used 1.5 years ago
11:51:41  <Phazorx> and ttrs seems like it vanished from face of the earth
11:52:04  <dih> looks to me like ttrs is hosted at
11:52:16  <Phazorx> where did all good days go when you could just have used ottdc_grfpack and it had ALL the grfs you ever need
11:52:24  <Terkhen> IIRC grfs which are on bananas where removed from the pack
11:52:30  <Terkhen> s/where/were/
11:52:39  <dih> which would make sense :-P
11:52:47  <dih> perhaps you just need an older grf pack
11:52:53  <Phazorx> Terkhen: exactly... and with bananas ofline it equals to them not being anywhere
11:52:58  <norbert79> I even vote say every GRF should go to Bananas where possible
11:53:06  <Phazorx> dih: cant find it on the site
11:53:10  <norbert79> Phazorx: You need to download once, right? :)
11:53:13  <Phazorx> i guess i can get older revison from redmine
11:53:16  <Terkhen> norbert79: me too, but some authors don't want their GRFs on bananas
11:53:19  <dih> Phazorx, do you remember the svn repository?
11:53:27  <planetmaker> a Phazorx! hi :-)
11:53:33  <Phazorx> dih: i can probbaly get the info from redmine can i?
11:53:34  <norbert79> Terkhen: Which is weird... It only has pros and almost no cons
11:53:43  <norbert79> Terkhen: But, it's up to them
11:53:44  <Phazorx> heya pm, long time :)
11:53:45  <dih> i have no idea Phazorx :-P
11:53:58  <dih> but pm and Ammler can probably help you out further with that ;-)
11:54:31  <dih> but rather than showing them an old save, why not show them new stuff ;-)
11:54:43  <planetmaker> :-)
11:54:49  <planetmaker> Live building cool stuff
11:55:36  <Phazorx> dih - does new stuff has SML+SRNW and 1000+ trains on it MOVING ?
11:55:59  <norbert79> - and this looks nice... Cooperative GRF development :)
11:56:40  <Ammler> Phazorx: you can download all bananas also from
11:57:03  <Ammler> and sali :-)
11:58:22  <Phazorx> Ammler: do you mind if i do wget -r on /data there ?
11:58:42  <Ammler> yes, I do that is why I posted the link :-P
11:58:45  <norbert79> I wonder what would Chris Sawyer say if he would see his creation in this form, what it has been turned into...
11:58:54  <Xaroth> he'd throw a fit
11:59:41  <norbert79> How comes? He should be happy :)
12:00:06  <norbert79> okok, he doesn't see a penny of it, thats true, but noone really does...
12:00:20  <Xaroth> that's the point
12:00:23  <Xaroth> he wants to see pennies
12:00:34  <norbert79> I can arrange that, I think :D
12:00:44  <norbert79> handful would be enough? :)
12:00:58  <Xaroth> I think he'd be aiming more for the truckloads
12:01:05  <Ammler> Phazorx: I do not mind, but here is one of the official mirros: ;-)
12:01:36  <Phazorx> Ammler: i need ttrs &co
12:01:45  <Phazorx> and does not work for me
12:01:53  <Ammler> also that one?
12:02:00  <Phazorx> that one kinda does
12:02:05  <Phazorx> but i dont see grfs there
12:02:27  <Phazorx> nevermind it just takes forever
12:02:32  <planetmaker> Ammler: the whole host server is down
12:02:46  <Ammler> yes, but I don't think the mirrors are
12:02:51  <Phazorx> what happened btw?
12:03:06  <planetmaker> nope, mirrors should be unaffected.
12:03:55  <Ammler> Phazorx: with the content_download from our server and grfpack 8, you should be able to load every save
12:04:02  <Ammler> (from our archives)
12:04:14  <Phazorx> yeah... got the content_download now
12:04:45  <Phazorx> why wont you have a members only pack with all necessary grfs from all saves for example?
12:04:50  <Phazorx> should be a small one
12:04:59  <Ammler> yes, we have
12:05:07  <Phazorx> oh... i missed the memo then
12:05:17  <dih> <norbert79> I wonder what would Chris Sawyer say if he would see his creation in this form, what it has been turned into... <- if you believe what his agency says, then he his not happy about it
12:05:29  <Ammler> it is called Grfpack 8.0 :-P
12:05:34  <Ammler> and bananas
12:05:46  <Phazorx> Ammler: with bananas down that doesnt help the situation
12:06:04  <Ammler> there are around 1000 mirrors around the world ;-)
12:06:20  <Phazorx> i got no idea how to switch them actually
12:06:34  <dih> hehe - edit your hosts file :-D
12:06:44  <Phazorx> that's ugly
12:06:51  <Ammler> the mirror is not meant as master fail backup
12:07:20  <dih> Phazorx, i do not even think it would work
12:07:26  <Phazorx> i cvan try
12:07:29  <dih> because openttd does not fetch via http iirc
12:07:30  <Phazorx> *can
12:07:39  <Ammler> dih: it does
12:07:40  <Phazorx> it probably rsyncs?
12:07:54  <Ammler> but it might still need the master server to get the url
12:08:21  <Ammler> well, it needs to get the content from mirrors
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12:15:15  <Phazorx> Ammler: no ttrs here ?
12:19:06  <Eddi|zuHause> muahaha @ xkcd :p
12:19:08  <Ammler>
12:19:13  <planetmaker> Phazorx: get it from
12:19:47  <Ammler> or
12:19:53  <Phazorx> i like how everything is conviniently renamed from the grf names one is looking for :)
12:20:15  <Ammler> our ps has ttrs from old pack 7.3
12:20:22  <Ammler> so it doesn't download it
12:20:26  <Phazorx> has it been changed much?
12:20:39  <planetmaker> not at all (ttrs)
12:20:42  <planetmaker> grfpack: yes
12:20:46  <planetmaker> lots of things deleted
12:20:58  <Ammler> bananans cleanup
12:21:19  <planetmaker> non-bananas doesn't exist :-P
12:22:17  <Ammler> my browser has good cache, if those mirrors all work for me but not for you :-)
12:22:47  <Phazorx> mirrors, .nl one especially work fine
12:22:57  <Phazorx> but coopers didnt have ttrs at all
12:23:23  <Ammler> a 3rd:
12:23:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i can acces this site just fine:
12:23:50  <Phazorx> one is enough guys... :)
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12:29:06  <peter1138> bah, these rivers suck
12:30:35  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they do
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12:50:10  <peter1138> well, perlin by itself sucks
12:50:16  <peter1138> and perlin * perlin also... isn't ideal
12:50:44  <peter1138> hm
12:53:13  <robotboy> hello
12:53:34  <robotboy> I can't access the wiki and pinging it times out
12:53:59  <Alberth> please tell something we do not know
12:55:17  <Xaroth> robotboy: ever bothered reading the topic of the channel?
12:55:31  <robotboy> oops
12:55:40  <robotboy> I normally do
12:57:44  <peter1138> pom te pom
12:58:38  <norbert79> dub di dub
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13:10:57  * norbert79 takes a test: "Wenn ist das nurnstuck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beigerhund das oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!"
13:11:01  * norbert79 escapes the death by having his old glasses on, with it he cannot read well...
13:11:24  <norbert79> I have released the funniest joke on the world... Fear me! :)
13:11:59  <Terkhen> someone told me it was just random words in german
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13:12:19  <norbert79> Terkhen: It is
13:12:21  <planetmaker> it's not even words
13:12:23  <dih> i have no idea what he intended to write
13:12:40  <Terkhen> probably just something that would sound like german to their audience
13:12:45  <norbert79> planetmaker: At least some of the words do make sense, but in general it's just MP humour :)
13:13:08  <dih> no, the words exists but they do not make sense :-P
13:13:24  <norbert79> Same with the English-Hungarian dictionary joke...  :)
13:13:50  <Terkhen> :D
13:13:54  <planetmaker> yes, yulpe seezlous can lagly said
13:13:56  <planetmaker> like that
13:14:15  <norbert79> I will not buy this record, it is scratched! :D
13:14:55  * dih pities the fool
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13:59:43  <peter1138> :s
14:00:43  <planetmaker> if that's autmatically generated it doesn't look too bad, peter1138 :-)
14:00:51  <peter1138> it is
14:01:02  <peter1138> it's on mountainous though, heh
14:01:27  <peter1138> with perlin, mountainous just means you'll get at least 1 peak which is it height 14, heh
14:01:53  <planetmaker> he :-)
14:01:59  <peter1138> there are some very bad rivers in there too
14:02:52  <planetmaker> they seem sometimes to stop near the shore
14:03:12  <planetmaker> i.e. they don't flow the last tile down into the sea
14:03:19  <peter1138> yeah, problem is the river generation code doesn't (can't) take account of diagonal slopes
14:03:34  <peter1138> still
14:03:44  <peter1138> could pretend some of them are lakes, hehe
14:04:04  <peter1138> hmm, this is meant to be very low water, too :s
14:04:19  <peter1138> should be only 1300 water tiles. hmm.
14:04:28  <planetmaker> sure, lakes don't hurt. But some are then very elongated :-)
14:04:39  <planetmaker> low water... not quite. It's about medium
14:04:58  <planetmaker> But I really like the big river there
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14:05:03  <planetmaker> or straight.
14:05:06  <planetmaker> whatever it is
14:05:16  <planetmaker> that's something currently hard to come by
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14:13:38  <Belugas> hello
14:17:19  <peter1138> strait? heh
14:17:39  <planetmaker> hm. yes :-P
14:20:39  <peter1138> ah, fixed that issue
14:20:43  <peter1138> (too much water)
14:21:26  <robotboy> gnight
14:21:38  <peter1138> < water level high
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14:23:32  <peter1138> like the way the towns are near the coast, but that might just be luck :p
14:26:19  <SmatZ> peter1138: while generating towns, when the random tile falls into water, nearest non-water tile is searched for (20-tile radius iirc), and town is placed there
14:26:26  <peter1138> arrrr
14:31:45  <planetmaker> nice!
14:32:57  <peter1138> shame this is very hacky, heh
14:33:16  <peter1138> also, the standard trains are bit slow in 1925...
14:33:43  <planetmaker> the rivers still might need some more love. Looks quite swampy in the South-Eastern island ;-)
14:34:10  <peter1138> yup
14:35:40  <planetmaker> but that might be even completely different issues.
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14:37:04  <Berg> hello, can someone tell me ,why can not i refresh the openttd internet server
14:37:17  <Berg> there is no server-list today?
14:37:56  <planetmaker> see topic
14:38:08  <planetmaker> it affects all servers
14:39:02  <planetmaker> so yes, sorry: server list won't work until the people in the data centre _finally_ come around to fixing the stuff they were supposed to have fixed at least 8 hours ago.
14:39:30  <Berg> thx. :-)
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14:39:55  <planetmaker> believe me: there's meanwhile a number of people pissed because of that ;-)
14:41:27  <norbert79> I object, cause I am not... !
14:41:29  <norbert79> :)
14:42:08  <norbert79> planetmaker: By the way: pissed off, not pissed, that means womething different :D
14:42:22  <norbert79> something... -_-
14:42:45  <V453000> does it?
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14:43:13  <V453000> well, pissed could mean also pissed off I think
14:43:20  <norbert79> V453000: well, I am pissed in the bar, I am pissed off in the bar... Afaik "pissed" means normally "pissed on", not "off"
14:43:21  <Rubidium>
14:43:53  <peter1138> "pissed" meaning "pissed off" is an americanism
14:43:55  <V453000> well, yes, but when you are pissed about ?
14:43:57  <norbert79> Ah, I was partially right, it means something different in British English
14:44:02  <peter1138> "pissed" meaning drunk, it a britishism
14:44:07  <peter1138> *is
14:44:10  <V453000> :)
14:44:16  <V453000> ok
14:44:16  <norbert79> I knew it smelled fishy :)
14:44:29  <robotboy> sometimes id say pissed of at and sometimes id say pissed at
14:44:39  <norbert79> just avoid "on" :D
14:45:20  <robotboy> we seem to speak a mix of british english and american here as well as australian english
14:45:29  <norbert79> It's something like in German and Austrian, like being "Öl" and being "betrunken"
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14:45:53  <norbert79> robotboy: Yeah, hard to distinguish the british from the american... Bad habit of the Internet.
14:46:16  <robotboy> and watching too many American TV shows
14:46:29  <norbert79> Like House MD? ;-)
14:46:52  <Berg> Oel is as same as betrunken?
14:46:55  <norbert79> which is rather a bit of... How to say.. Sarcastic? :)
14:47:00  <robotboy> not for me
14:47:21  <robotboy> well I should sleep or try to sleep
14:47:22  <norbert79> Berg: Austrian says being "Öl" is the same as "Betrunken" ergo "drunk" in German
14:47:42  <Berg> ah. ok
14:47:49  <norbert79> robotboy: Hugh Laurie is British, and yet is is forming an American character
14:47:56  <norbert79> robotboy: Thats why my comment
14:48:00  <Berg> i just take 0el as geman world
14:48:16  <Berg> german-word
14:48:17  <norbert79> Berg: It is a German word, but depends under whcih circumstances you use it
14:48:34  <planetmaker> right. I never heart it in that context...
14:48:43  <norbert79> planetmaker: Falco used it often :D
14:50:18  <norbert79> planetmaker: I can't recal which German actor told this story, and he met with Falco once in a Bar, the guy was totally drunk, and then he told this story later on German TV... Can't recall, was long time ago.
14:51:53  <planetmaker> I don't say that Southern Germans don't talk funny... So many things are possible.
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14:53:47  <norbert79> planetmaker: Well, I was interested in PlattdÃŒtsch before, never got really into it, lacked of resources :)
14:56:41  <Berg> norbert, is niederdeutsch
14:57:08  <Berg> very different from hochdeutsch?
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14:57:11  <kenneth> hello
14:57:27  <norbert79> Hi kenneth
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14:58:24  <Berg> is that you mentioned Plattdutsch also niederdeutsch?
14:58:33  <norbert79> Yes
14:58:38  <planetmaker> Berg: you'd have difficulties
14:58:39  <kenneth> im very new to c++
14:58:48  <norbert79> Berg: Well, according to my analysis, it is related to changes to the German language as we know it today. German used to be very mixed and very different, with plenty of various dialects
14:58:54  <kenneth> but in networking is the details of current players and servers stored in the same array
14:59:53  <planetmaker> Plattdeutsch is a nice mixture of German, Dutch and English ;-)
15:00:30  <norbert79> planetmaker: Well, it's a bit more difficult, than that, but simpler said, yes, kinda :)
15:00:36  <planetmaker> is it?
15:00:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i have never heard of "Öl" meaning "drunk"...
15:00:59  <norbert79> planetmaker: Well, it is historical reasons why it got like that :)
15:01:09  <planetmaker> 'remained' ;-)
15:01:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i only know that the scandinavians say "öl" meaning "beer"
15:01:23  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: I heard it somewtimes in AUstria
15:01:35  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: "Ich bin Öl" means I am drunk
15:02:12  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: And hungarians say sometimes: "I am not thirsty anymore"... Well, basically means also being drunk :D
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15:03:19  <planetmaker> however that may be related...
15:04:16  <norbert79> Can be, but I already went way off topic by now :)
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15:07:07  <Berg> very interesting in Plattdeutsch, less variety for verb. wi
15:07:15  <Berg> wi maakt
15:07:34  <Berg> ji maakt se makkt =wir machen= we do
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15:08:38  <planetmaker> jo, det kÃŒt de wool sachn. Let talk op platt
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15:08:56  <planetmaker> Kinner wert us nu verstaan
15:09:01  <Berg> kann gar nichts verstehen
15:09:21  <norbert79> I do though :D
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15:09:29  <norbert79> Yet others might be mocked by it :)
15:10:02  <planetmaker> indeed
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15:10:55  <glx> !topic get -2
15:11:32  <planetmaker> :-)
15:11:41  <glx> stupid me, DorpsGek is absent
15:11:53  * planetmaker hands an "@" to glx, too
15:12:19  <glx> no ! is for my hidden commands to the bot
15:12:31  <norbert79> !sudo make me a sandwich
15:12:48  <planetmaker> aye :-)
15:12:49  <norbert79> must be very hidden, I still cannot see my sandwich :)
15:13:08  <planetmaker> have a wild guess on which server Dorpsgek runs, norbert79
15:13:09  <glx> when the bot is here, my !commands are not sent
15:13:25  <norbert79> planetmaker: Hmm... I think I have a hunch :))
15:14:08  *** mode/#openttd [+o glx] by SmatZ
15:21:48  <norbert79> Alright, see you guys later! Bye for now
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15:35:25  * Phazorx wonders if it is possible to make ottd fullscreen on triple monitors correctly
15:38:13  * SpComb wonders how well OpenTTD supports triangular monitors
15:38:55  <Phazorx> wont be very practical i bet
15:39:03  <ccfreak2k> Multple monitors is usually implemented in a fashion that makes other programs see only one very big monitor.
15:39:07  <SmatZ> Phazorx: if they are next to each other, with square view, it shouldn't be a problem
15:39:08  <Phazorx> in contrast to tripplehead
15:39:23  <SmatZ> *square -> rectangular
15:39:48  <Phazorx> SmatZ: well it is win7 faul