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Log for #openttd on 22nd December 2010:
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00:44:33  <Eddi|zuHause> random idea: action 14 also specifying the "type" of newgrf (train/rv/industry/station/etc.)
00:44:49  <Eddi|zuHause> or tags
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00:54:50  <Sacro> OpenTTD on the Android Market violates the GPL
00:57:51  <__ln__> Sacro: Nobody is going to do anything about it.
00:58:19  <Sacro> I filed an objection
00:58:22  <Sacro> not like it works
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01:01:56  <__ln__> You can file an objection even if you don't claim to be a copyright holder?
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02:35:38  <greywall> what if u could play openttd on ipad?
02:35:58  <greywall> btw, how come u cant dl some newgrfs? they aren't available it says, red
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07:27:47  <Rubidium> Sacro: I fear it means we have to wait for FSF to pull something before they get the notice that it's not legal
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07:46:02  <Terkhen> good morning
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08:53:38  <planetmaker> moin
08:54:19  <dihedral> trallalla
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08:54:40  <dihedral> pronounced with a german 'r' :-P
08:55:23  <Chrill> like in Rudolph Red nosed Reindeer!
08:55:28  * Chrill walks off
08:57:22  <planetmaker> with a Cinese 'r' it also would be tlalalala ;-)
08:57:55  <Chrill> engrish funny?
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09:54:08  <dihedral> Terkhen, you are ruining NekoMaster's christmas :-P
09:55:59  <Terkhen> dihedral: michi_cc is to blame too :P
09:56:13  <dihedral> :-P
09:56:27  <Terkhen> I don't know much about real trains, but a single engine pulling 32 wagons still seems too much for me
09:56:49  <dihedral> erm - i think i've seen it actually
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09:57:03  <planetmaker> all these evil guys. Only out there to spoil the fun of him. I really don't not [sic!] like them :-P
09:57:04  <Eddi|zuHause> a single _steam_ engine.
09:57:10  <dihedral> but the train was not very fast, and i kindof doubt they were transporting really heavy stuff
09:57:33  <dihedral> Ah - no, was a Disel engine
09:57:50  <Terkhen> anyways, I also wonder if it would make sense gameplay wise
09:58:15  <dihedral> shall we open a new thread? "Weird User asking stupid questions about Nightlies"
09:58:55  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. give him a pseudonym, thoug.
09:59:00  <Eddi|zuHause> like "Fred" or something :p
09:59:58  <dihedral> LOL
10:00:02  <dihedral> "Fred" is taken :-(
10:00:09  <dihedral> howabout "Bob"
10:00:22  <dihedral> with a space between "how" and "about"
10:00:39  <Terkhen> I like Bob
10:01:18  <dihedral> i don't :-P
10:01:27  <Rubidium> Bernie und Ert?
10:01:31  <Terkhen> I like it as a name for random user asking questions :)
10:01:38  <dihedral> oh - i like the nickname "Bob" - for sure :-P
10:02:03  <dihedral> and if it gets too much, you can change it to Bobble Bob
10:02:06  <Terkhen> :D
10:02:27  <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> Bernie und Ert? <-- those were the guys with the SM club, right?
10:02:31  <Terkhen> we could also use John/Jane Doe
10:02:46  <planetmaker> I'm sure Fred could also ask such questions. Or his girl friend Luisa
10:02:48  <planetmaker> who knows
10:03:26  <dihedral> or Frank - for all those you like to express themselves "frankly"
10:03:57  <dihedral> or we give them girl names - then the community would have more support from the other sex :-P
10:05:13  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry1Fvkd333A <- those
10:05:53  <dihedral> YAY
10:06:11  <dihedral> he's only got one eye :-(
10:07:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes. those i meant ;)
10:08:01  <planetmaker> aua!
10:08:09  <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSarRjR9Wgg
10:09:21  <dihedral> lol
10:15:55  <Eddi|zuHause> luckily, the JMStV was cancelled, otherwise we'd be only allowed to "send" this stuff between 22:00 and 6:00 :p
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10:52:06  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21593 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: endif comment correcttions.
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11:24:55  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21594 /trunk/src/ (19 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Whitespace fixes in ifndef/define lines.
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11:47:03  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21595 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Some header files had their name changed, update the ifndef/define/endif lines.
11:47:24  <Alberth> is there a header file I didn't touch?  :p
11:48:35  <planetmaker> :-D
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12:04:12  <Zuu> I'm happy that I don't do any patch work at the moment and have to re-compile the entire OpenTTD when doing svn up :-D
12:07:05  <Alberth> still using svn? hg is so much more flexible
12:11:13  <Zuu> I use svn for fetching OpenTTD trunk, but for my own projects including patch queues I use hg.
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12:11:56  <Alberth> that was a quick visit :)
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12:12:34  <Alberth> Zuu: I have a hg mirror of trunk, and clone/update from there to all my projects.
12:13:03  <Zuu> Sounds like a good idea
12:13:33  <Alberth> less internet traffic :)
12:13:35  <Zuu> Especially if you are on non-Windows, but even then it should be doable.
12:13:42  <Zuu> Indeed
12:16:31  <planetmaker> I do all development from my trunk hg clone as well - which I clone for local projects. Just for committing I have a svn checkout, too
12:17:48  <Alberth> I have a nice update script that updates the mirror, opens the 'hgtk log' for checking the new commits, rebuilds the program and builds a local version of the Doxygen docs.
12:18:51  <Terkhen> I'm on windows, and I also do everything with hg
12:23:15  <Alberth> now what was I doing before getting distracted by a wrong #endif comment? :p
12:26:37  <Ammler> maybe we should make a hgsubversion clone, so you could directly commit :-)
12:26:51  <ABCRic> I don't use hg 'cos it doesn't like my connection D:
12:27:29  <ABCRic> keeps complaining about unexpected eof or something
12:27:59  <Ammler> ABCRic: you used a recent version?
12:28:22  <ABCRic> Ammler: it was latest at the time
12:29:34  <planetmaker> is Rubidium around for a potential sync of mirrors?
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12:30:57  <ABCRic_> speaking of connection...
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12:33:03  <ABCRic> I was trying to clone the firefox repository to compile it myself, but I gave up because it just kept complaining
12:34:38  <ABCRic> So now I just use svn
12:34:56  <ABCRic> TortoiseSVN has some problems with downloading in vista, though
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12:37:36  <Alberth> Ammler: hgsubversion clone sounds better than using hg all the way. However, I often make last minute changes while copying from hg to svn, so its usefulness is not that large.
12:39:15  <Ammler> he, if you would use hgsubversion, you could push directly from the hg repo to the svn repo, afaik
12:39:40  <Sacro> Rubidium: i reported it, what god that wil do...
12:40:26  <Sacro> *good
12:40:42  <Alberth> *will   :)
12:42:01  <Alberth> at least it ensures the issue does not get lost
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12:43:54  <Rubidium> planetmaker: the next hour I've got time, after that it still somewhat unknown to me
12:44:20  <Rubidium> got to go to the dentist for the yearly check, after that maybe some shopping
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12:45:31  <planetmaker> ok, tag pushed to CF
12:46:11  <Alberth> for some one wanting to do a bit of gui shuffling, it seems useful to merge the transparency/visibility settings of the options from the main menu into the transparency gui
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13:13:56  <Rubidium> ghehe, the daily "openttd" download average is exactly 2500 (average since september 2008)
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13:14:24  <planetmaker> :-)
13:17:33  <Alberth> hmm, stopping the downloads would decrease that number rather than preserve it ;)
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13:18:57  <Marlinc> Hi there again;)
13:19:12  <Marlinc> Is there a XML version of http://www.openttd.org/en/servers
13:19:25  <planetmaker> no
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13:19:48  <Marlinc> Ah
13:19:53  <Marlinc> Oke..
13:20:09  <planetmaker> and why would it be needed?
13:21:11  <Marlinc> To download stats of my server..
13:21:20  <Marlinc> Because i don't have a admin port
13:21:47  <Marlinc> and the openttd-python library doesn't work on 1.0.5
13:24:33  <Zuu> Alberth: Sounds like a good idea to merge the transparency/visibility options.
13:24:47  <Marlinc> planetmaker, do you got a idea how i can create stats of my server
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13:25:58  <Zuu> depending on what you need, maybe the stats can be read from the dedicated server console using a wrapper script like autopilot and its friends?
13:26:58  <Marlinc> I will take a look
13:27:01  <Alberth> or by interpreting that web page :)
13:27:12  <Zuu> Otherwise, if you can edit the OpenTTD source + recompile you could make it write the stats you like to a file that your webserver have write access to.
13:27:24  <Zuu> read access*
13:28:01  <Alberth> or fix the 'openttd-python library' for 1.0.5
13:28:10  <Alberth> plenty of options :p
13:28:14  <Marlinc> :p
13:28:15  <planetmaker> Marlinc: like http://www.openttdcoop.org/index.php?page=servers&s=ps ?
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13:28:20  <planetmaker> openttdlib
13:28:49  <Zuu> Oh yea, there is this php library that can be used as well.
13:29:15  <Zuu> I use that only to read what version servers use, but perhaps it can provide even more information.
13:29:15  <Alberth> yuck
13:29:44  <planetmaker> well. The server version is read from our finger page, isn't it?
13:29:59  <Zuu> Yes your version number
13:30:36  <Zuu> The custom MP server feature however uses a web service that uses the php-library to determine the server version of custom servers
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13:31:05  <Zuu> I couldn't bother to port it to Delphi so I just set up it as a web service :-)
13:31:08  <marlin_> Back
13:31:15  <marlin_> Connection lost
13:32:04  <marlin_> Yea planetmaker that looks nice
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13:33:47  <Marlinc_> planetmaker, http://www.openttdcoop.org/index.php?page=servers&s=ps
13:33:50  <Marlinc_> That one looks nice
13:34:13  <Marlinc_> Can you download that?
13:36:08  <Ammler> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openttdlib
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13:37:46  <Ammler> or as archive from here: http://hg.openttdcoop.org/openttdlib (links on top)
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13:38:52  <Marlinc_> Ah thanks
13:39:00  <Marlinc_> I will take a look at that one to
13:39:03  <Marlinc_> Too*
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13:50:57  <Ammler> that is the same :-)
13:51:13  <Ammler> just as you asked for download
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14:05:17  <Belugas> hello
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14:21:32  <Alberth> hello
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14:38:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21596 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Codechange: Rename a misleading-named variable.
14:51:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21597 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r21239): Also catch the case when callback 10 returns VE_DEFAULT.
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14:51:49  <Xaroth> Marlinc_: you can always get -some- stats from the server's game port directly
14:51:53  <Xaroth> but that means knowing the protocol :P
14:52:06  <Marlinc_> :p
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14:52:12  <Ammler> with 1.0.5?
14:52:25  <Xaroth> Ammler: same way the client asks the server it's info? :)
14:52:26  <Ammler> ah, yes, what openttdlib uses
14:52:31  <Xaroth> aye
14:52:37  <Marlinc> That libottdlib in php will do the job;)
14:52:38  <Xaroth> but that doesn't do chat
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14:52:56  <Marlinc> For now the stats are good enough
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15:04:18  <DanMacK> Hey all
15:04:59  * Alberth waves
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15:30:47  <Wolf01> 'evening
15:31:33  <Alberth> evenink
15:33:17  <Wolf01> oddink
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15:41:00  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21598 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp:
15:41:00  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix (r3139, r21236, r21249)[FS#4275]: The default visual effect only depends on
15:41:00  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: properties of the Engine (wagon or not, tractiontype, ...), not whether it is
15:41:00  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: used as articulated part, front engine or whatever in a specific consist.
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16:17:24  <DanMacK> Hey supermop
16:27:39  <Belugas> ppff.... 17 hours, total cumul of hours spent on analysing stupid logs...
16:27:44  <Belugas> i need new glasses
16:30:35  <Wolf01> you read all the logs?
16:36:15  <Zuu> Alberth: If you manage to come up with a new design that does not hide the locking with ctrl+click that is possible even better. :-)
16:37:46  <Zuu> Maybe transponate the list and turn it into a table with radio-buttons or similar for "solid", "half-transparent", "invisible" and a lock button on each row.
16:38:35  <planetmaker> Zuu: for that end we have the tooltips ;-)
16:38:49  <planetmaker> but your GUI idea is a good one
16:39:45  <planetmaker> additional buttons needed are town names, station names, waypoint names, full animation and full details
16:41:24  <Zuu> True, it is not easy and maybe not desirable to vusually present all Ctrl/Shift options in a Gui, but in this case it might be possible to turn a ctrl-feature to something easier detectable for new users.
16:41:38  <planetmaker> certainly, yes
16:43:11  <Zuu> Perhaps full animation and full detail could be placed in this list but with only "solid" and "invisible" options available. Or they are handeled as special cases and are placed outside of the list somewhere.
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16:54:03  <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho
16:55:44  <supermop> hi danmack
16:55:58  <supermop> and everyone else as well
16:56:11  <z-MaTRiX> hm
16:56:13  <z-MaTRiX> supermop
16:56:36  <z-MaTRiX> it was you with green color ~18 hours before on openttd multiplayer? <;
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17:04:04  <Alberth> Zuu: I am trying to make sense of the tile highlighting code atm
17:04:47  <supermop> hm?
17:04:50  <z-MaTRiX> would like to suggest a multiplayer feature
17:05:07  <supermop> i havent played ottd multiplayer in about a month
17:05:35  <Zuu> Alberth: Oh ok
17:05:57  <z-MaTRiX> if one client would allow one company at a time, and another company after the first go bankrupt after 3-10 years in game, then the number of cheats would decrease
17:06:26  *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:06:36  <Alberth> what stops me from logging in a second time?
17:06:48  <Zuu> Eg. using multiple OpenTTD clients.
17:06:55  <z-MaTRiX> server gets ip at connect and reject?
17:07:12  * Alberth has more than one machine
17:07:21  <z-MaTRiX> heheh
17:07:23  <Zuu> That would block multiple people on the same IP.
17:07:29  <z-MaTRiX> hm well
17:07:39  <Alberth> eg proxies at ISPs
17:07:43  <z-MaTRiX> yes
17:08:16  <z-MaTRiX> but it can be annoying player funding a new company, rejoining for terraforming
17:08:56  <z-MaTRiX> ok well if not ip then client, and can open up another client
17:08:59  <Alberth> we don't deny that, we only show that your way of stopping them doesn't work, as any other way we've seen
17:10:01  <z-MaTRiX> ok i know <;
17:10:13  <z-MaTRiX> it can be abused many ways
17:10:22  <z-MaTRiX> you can only make it harder
17:10:58  <z-MaTRiX> can a client openttd see if another sesssion is running on same computer and mess up new company creation?
17:10:59  <Alberth> imho the only sane way is to moderate actively
17:11:01  <z-MaTRiX> :)
17:11:40  <Alberth> cross-platform, most likely not without being able to break that detection
17:11:59  <Alberth> I can recompile the code!
17:12:07  <z-MaTRiX> sure you can
17:12:16  <z-MaTRiX> but most users (97%) cant
17:12:27  <Zuu> As a server owner you could force every one that joins the game to be spectators until you enter a code that they get by visiting your website. Add a user registration system with email/cellphone verification and you've made it much more complicated :-)
17:12:47  <z-MaTRiX> yeah thats a solution too
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17:14:49  <z-MaTRiX> 3l1t3 network
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17:19:40  <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho Keyboard_Warrior
17:19:50  <z-MaTRiX> throwing buttons?
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17:27:25  <extspotter> hey - I need some help with uploading to bananas
17:27:38  <planetmaker> z-MaTRiX: but disallowing several clients from one IP would also block the legitimate people who share one IP. Like siblings on the same line
17:27:52  <planetmaker> extspotter: what's the issue?
17:28:14  <extspotter> I am part of the world airliners set team - we already have an alpha on bananas but we have lost the acount details so we cannot upload on a different account as this second release has the same grf id as the alpha
17:28:44  <extspotter> could the original account be deleted so we could upload the new version?
17:31:38  <planetmaker> a 2nd one can be added
17:31:50  <planetmaker> at least
17:32:05  <extspotter> I tried uploading it on my account and it said that it wouldn't upload
17:32:12  <extspotter> I will try again and come back if it doesnt work
17:32:24  <planetmaker> yes. Normally only one account has access to one entry
17:32:47  <planetmaker> I'm afraid I can't change it. You need to ask Rubidium. Write him an e-mail with your account name
17:33:49  <planetmaker> btw, extspotter I wondered, you don't use the DevZone anymore?
17:34:04  <planetmaker> I saw nothing of those changes in the commit log
17:38:07  <extspotter> The current main coder, Faddypainter, doesnt like it for some reason and self-compiles himself
17:40:20  <extspotter> this is what bananas says: 2022There is already a package with the unique id '57A50001'.
17:40:44  <extspotter> so I need to contact rubidium
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17:42:46  <extspotter> thanks for your help
17:42:50  <dihedral> you have just done so :-P
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17:45:33  <Belugas> [11:30] <Wolf01> you read all the logs?  <- yeah.. need too I didn't had time to do some kind of script reader
17:45:55  <Belugas> i jsut have multiple level of logs,
17:46:08  <Belugas> and i dig on the more complexed if ever required
17:46:18  <Belugas> and now, it was required
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17:52:25  <rasco> hello
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17:52:45  <rasco> someone said something to me? i dont keep logs and can't scroll back that far
17:53:15  <dihedral> @logs
17:53:15  <DorpsGek> dihedral: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
17:53:22  <dihedral> there you go
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18:00:46  <planetmaker> extspotter: just mind that you need concensus from all past contributors to change the license. And if not: I request the source ;-)
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18:16:23  <dihedral> hagrrrr - laptop is still in the us :-(
18:16:27  <dihedral> hmmpf
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18:23:36  <extspotter> the license isnt changing so its not a problem.
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18:25:33  <dihedral> one could of course get participants / developers to agree that copyright is handed over to one person / the project, so that lisence changes can be arranged easily
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18:45:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21599 /trunk/src/lang/ (croatian.txt czech.txt dutch.txt italian.txt polish.txt):
18:45:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne
18:45:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 1 changes by marek995
18:45:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 21 changes by habell
18:45:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: italian - 57 changes by lorenzodv
18:45:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: polish - 3 changes by voythas
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18:55:21  <dihedral> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=920417#p920417 :-D
18:55:27  <dihedral> oh how i love that :-P
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19:00:50  <Alberth> oh my dih, it is such a useless discussion
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19:07:22  <dihedral> i prefer 'dih' over 'god' though :-S
19:10:32  <DanMacK> dihedral, that has got to be the best answer ever...  I love it
19:22:33  * peter1138 doesn't know what's been changed in the acceleration code
19:22:50  <peter1138> maybe i should update my graph program
19:23:17  * andythenorth has some grumbles about acceleration changes
19:24:49  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r21600 /trunk/src/ (tilehighlight_type.h viewport.cpp): -Codechange: Remove new_drawstyle and new_diagonal variables from the _thd structure.
19:29:11  <dihedral> hehe - have fun with a single nightly :-P remove the accelleration code so trains do not move at all (iff relalistic accel is enabled) :-P
19:32:09  <dihedral> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=920418#p920418 <- wow - this is sad...
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19:35:41  <Prof_Frink> Too subtle. Replace the acceleration code with a random number generator.
19:36:11  <dihedral> hehe - a different acceleration each time acceleration is needed, or different per game :-P
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19:36:21  <dihedral> i.e. random each time, or based on the games seed :-P
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19:36:39  <dihedral> base it on the time of day :-P
19:36:42  <dihedral> hehe
19:36:57  <Prof_Frink> Phase of the moon.
19:37:19  <Prof_Frink> "My trains are going too slow!" "It's a full moon." "Ummm..."
19:37:28  <ABCRic> xD
19:37:32  <dihedral> lol
19:37:50  <dihedral> but a nightly will hardly last that long :-P
19:38:32  <dihedral> hehe - you could also introduce different types of randomness on the os :-P
19:39:39  <dihedral> i can see the post in the forums: "i do not understand what this has to do with linux ..."
19:39:55  <Prof_Frink> dihedral: in-game phase of the moon?
19:40:01  <dihedral> hmm
19:40:29  <dihedral> hehe - you could distribute the total accelleration on the number of trains :-D
19:40:38  <Wolf01> implement first daylength and day-night cycle, then you can implement what do you want
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19:42:49  <Prof_Frink> MMOTTD - trains start out slow and weak, but "level up" by delivering cargo and crashing into competitor's RVs.
19:42:51  <dihedral> or rather the train number, that way each train gets a different accel - unrelated to model :-P
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19:54:53  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21601 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4323]: company league table used stats from two quarters ago instead of last quarter
19:55:38  <Wolf01> Rubidium, about graphs, any chance to have a delivered+income graph all in one?
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19:59:49  <Rubidium> guess there is a chance, but it's not something I'd be doing any time soon
20:05:32  <Alberth> Is one of the graphs not simply a shifted version of the other (by your costs) ?
20:05:57  <Wolf01> one is cargo, the other is money
20:06:24  *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF81C9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:07:03  <Alberth> quite unrelated, and at wildly different scales thus :)
20:09:40  <Wolf01> eh, more the cargo you deliver, more the income, but I usually open both of them to see if is a problem of "no delivers these months" or because I use too many trains when with more wagons I can earn the same but with lower running cost
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20:12:36  <Alberth> afaik the current graphs do not have several diferent scales
20:14:04  <Alberth> (as in, a different one for each graph)
20:14:36  <ABCRic> what exactly is 'operating profit'?
20:16:26  *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:17:19  <Wolf01> income-cost
20:17:22  <Alberth> afaik, the amount of money you gained after deducting all costs (each year or so)
20:20:17  <Wolf01> I'm thinking about restart developing daylength, this time I would like to separate the concept of tick based  operations and date
20:21:44  <Wolf01> it's a weird concept, too long to tell
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20:22:57  <Wolf01> and I don't know how many changes it would need
20:23:08  <Alberth> I have been considering a year-length patch
20:23:39  <Alberth> afaik the whole goal of daylength is just a longer playing time in some era right?
20:23:51  <Wolf01> yeah
20:24:29  <Wolf01> but many other features could be added, like day-night and timetable based on hours instead of days
20:24:29  <Rubidium> year length means running the same year multiple times, right?
20:24:31  <Alberth> so suppose the introduction of new locos and the decay of reliability of existing ones slows down only
20:24:47  <Rubidium> that might give odd results with inflation (that happens monthly IIRC)
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20:25:29  <Alberth> Rubidium: not really, in the simplest case, the year and all other stuff runs at the same speed as now
20:25:41  <Alberth> it just takes longer before new locos are introduced
20:26:05  <Wolf01> previous implementations needed to "scale" the day_ticks in every place, I would like to separate the places where a "day" could be used freely and where not
20:26:15  <Alberth> and you COULD fake longer years by displaying the same year for a longer time in the status bar
20:27:04  <Rubidium> Alberth: but then the early vehicles get extraordinarily expensive, while the inflation effect wears off after a while as inflation stops after 170 months
20:27:26  <Rubidium> unless you slow down inflation as well
20:28:15  <Alberth> hmm, perhaps that should be done too, I never play with inflation, ever since I discovered the 'off' button :)
20:28:40  <Wolf01> the main problem was about running costs and incomes, both are tick based, so more ticks = longer numbers
20:29:11  <Wolf01> I thought about making running costs "monthly" instead of "yearly" based
20:29:26  <Alberth> I think doing tick-based things is way too complicated imho, basically everything changes then
20:29:56  <Wolf01> that is what caused to fail all the previous implementations
20:30:28  <Alberth> but what is the fun of a vehicle loading forever?
20:31:12  <Alberth> or is the cargo loading sped up?
20:31:26  <Wolf01> I need a new configurable variable to use at the place of the ticks, I call it "hours"
20:31:50  <Wolf01> yes, all is sped up, only the date should look slower
20:33:03  <Alberth> and that does not cause major head aches w.r.t. balancing?
20:33:18  <Wolf01> indeed
20:33:29  <Alberth> (although we don't have enough balance currently)
20:34:26  <Alberth> It sounds a bit complicated. You slow down the clock, then speed the operations up again.
20:34:52  <Wolf01> that's why I want to try to separate the clock from the operations
20:34:56  <Alberth> instead of just slowing down what you want to run more slowly
20:35:25  <Wolf01> eh, you can't simply display a fake date
20:37:01  <Alberth> so those numbers are so important to keep correct? (just playing advocate of the devil)
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20:38:01  <Wolf01> the problem is to show the correct numbers, and in a readable way
20:38:41  <Alberth> suppose we let time run as it is now.
20:38:46  <Wolf01> I say: you have an engine with 1M running cost, you modify the factor of 32x, you then have a running cost of 32M
20:39:27  <Alberth> hmm, good point
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20:40:57  <Wolf01> the grf says 1M/year, the game says 32M/year, there's something wrong :D
20:41:54  <Wolf01> or you keep the same running cost, but then you have to scale the income too (or your vehicles start to earn lot of money, like aircrafts do at 1/1 speed)
20:42:28  <Wolf01> or you "fake" the displayed numbers
20:42:37  <Rubidium> or, for extra complexity, something in the middle :)
20:42:59  <Wolf01> that's the point, I was not able to figure it out
20:43:06  * andythenorth ponders
20:44:16  <Wolf01> I thought about showing running costs monthly instead of yearly, but the multiplier must be compatible (e.g. new month lenght=old year length)
20:44:42  <Wolf01> or for ease: multiply by 12 the year length
20:45:44  * Alberth has lots to learn about different day lengths
20:45:46  <__ln__> -27,5 °C
20:46:15  <Wolf01> 8°C here, but a lot of rain
20:46:29  <ABCRic> Same here, Wolf01
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20:49:43  <Prof_Frink> Fairly chilly, but not raining.
20:51:10  <Wolf01> gah, playing for 50 years every time caused me to forget how to build junctions
20:51:50  <Wolf01> I start with plain PBS junctions then I leave them there
20:53:04  <Alberth> I also just lay tracks with junctions, rather than having some standard layout. It adds to the fun imho
20:55:50  * fonsinchen has implemented automatic orders to solve the conflict between cargodist and stopping orders
20:56:09  <andythenorth> automatic orders?
20:56:49  <fonsinchen> When a vehicle stops at a station it wasn't ordered to stop at an automatic order is inserted
20:57:02  <z-MaTRiX> <;
20:57:11  <Wolf01> use non stop?
20:57:34  <fonsinchen> You don't need to use non-stop anymore. At least not for cargodist
20:57:54  <fonsinchen> And you can see in the station GUI which stations the vehicle has visited last time.
20:58:08  <Wolf01> then trains are "cargo driven" and not "order driven"? You tell only them where the route starts and ends?
20:58:59  <fonsinchen> Automatic orders are not in fact orders. The vehicle doesn't listen to them
20:59:14  <fonsinchen> They're just there to keep track of the stations visited.
20:59:55  <fonsinchen> so that I can guess which station the vehicle will visit next, even if the current (real) order is a stopping one.
21:00:54  <fonsinchen> I can give you a patch for trunk with that feature if you're interested.
21:01:07  <Wolf01> I can't compile right now
21:01:34  <Wolf01> but I could be interested, I played only with one of the very first versions of cargodest
21:01:46  <Wolf01> in MiniIN IIRC
21:02:31  <fonsinchen> you can always get the code from my git repository, too. The branch is auto-orders and it's directly branched from trunk.
21:02:44  <fonsinchen> and it's merged into cargodist now.
21:03:33  *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
21:04:47  <Rubidium> yep, it might be interesting for seeing what trains visit a particular station in trunk as well
21:05:43  <Wolf01> I had this problem in my current game, I have various ro-ro rural stations, and I forgot to set non-stop to rapid trains
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21:09:55  <fonsinchen> That's an interesting point, Rubidium. The list of vehicles visiting a station is not updated with auto orders, though ...
21:13:27  <fonsinchen> It can probably be done, though.
21:15:31  <fonsinchen> I just need to find out how that is done for normal orders.
21:15:36  * fonsinchen is confused
21:16:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21602 /trunk/src/ (order_base.h order_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: split actual adding/removing of orders to/from a vehicle's order list from the validation of those (user) commands. Based on patch by fonsinchen
21:17:46  <fonsinchen> oh, that's fast
21:17:59  <Rubidium> it's only a small part of the diff though
21:18:02  <Wolf01> lol
21:18:32  <Rubidium> and it'll collide with your work as I changed some comments slightly
21:18:52  * Rubidium likes svn diff -x -b though; made it pretty clear not much changed besides indentation
21:19:19  <fonsinchen> I will be able to sort that out. git is pretty good at handling those things.
21:19:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21603 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: no need to assign something to a variable and then test it for NULL when you're never using it again
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21:22:19  <fonsinchen> pretty simple actually. One extra condition in vehiclelist.cpp:122 and you see vehicles with auto orders in station vehicle lists.
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21:27:05  <Rubidium> yeah
21:27:52  <Rubidium> I've got to say that the gray is barely readable though
21:28:04  <Rubidium> but then I'm not sure how to work around that though
21:28:30  <Wolf01> one question: how do you make trains stop at stations they pass through without orders?
21:28:54  <Rubidium> don't give the train a non-stop order
21:29:49  <Wolf01> but with auto-orders?
21:29:58  <fonsinchen> probably depends on the monitor. It looks fine on my laptop and on my monitor.
21:30:29  <fonsinchen> We can use some other color or add some text "(auto)"
21:32:21  <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/gray.png <- that's how it looks to me; the gray looks like it's getting a shadow in the same colour making the letters wider
21:32:28  <fonsinchen> Wolf01: auto-orders don't change the behaviour of the vehicle. They're just there for keeping track of what it has done before.
21:32:36  <Wolf01> ah
21:32:38  <Wolf01> ok
21:33:07  <Wolf01> so if a train stops in a station a "I stopped there" order appear in the schedule
21:33:23  <fonsinchen> Hmm, ok, if that's bad we need a different solution.
21:33:41  <fonsinchen> Wolf01: yes
21:33:52  <Wolf01> if there isn't a direct order
21:33:52  <Wolf01> now I understand
21:34:28  <frosch123> hehe, black is the only textcolour without shadow :)
21:34:56  <frosch123> maybe use the normal colour, but skip the number?
21:34:58  <Wolf01> uhm, railworks2 on steam: 5.25€
21:36:49  <fonsinchen> You can set conditional order jumps to automatic orders. So skipping the number may be confusing
21:37:06  <fonsinchen> But maybe that concept is confusing in itself already.
21:38:26  <fonsinchen> TC_BROWN instead of TC_GREY maybe?
21:38:29  <Wolf01> http://store.steampowered.com/app/24010/ does it worth the purchase?
21:39:39  <Terkhen> Wolf01: isn't that the train simulator with a thousand of expensive expansion sets?
21:40:01  <Wolf01> yes, they are at the bottom of the page
21:40:13  <ABCRic> Terkhen: they prefer the term 'DLC'
21:40:22  * Terkhen prefers the term ripoff
21:40:32  * ABCRic does too
21:40:33  * Rubidium wonders whether OpenGFX has those shades
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21:42:54  <Rubidium> what about making them silver and unclickable (then you can't delete them though)
21:44:05  <fonsinchen> what about silver with black background when clicked?
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21:45:05  <Wolf01> I agree with Rubidium, you shouldn't be able to click them and they should disappear every time the schedule is restarted
21:45:21  <fonsinchen> oh, we don't have a background
21:46:01  * andythenorth wonders
21:46:10  <andythenorth> far as I know cb results can't be escaped?
21:46:13  <andythenorth> in nfo
21:46:17  * fonsinchen tries silver and unclickable
21:46:53  * andythenorth has brain freeze
21:47:28  <andythenorth> need to return 432d to cb 36
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21:48:32  <hnsz2002> hi, can i disable the vehicle breakdowns on a dedicated server without restarting the game?
21:48:56  <hnsz2002> 1.0.5, maybe via rcon command
21:51:00  <Xaroth> it's a setting you can set
21:51:11  <fonsinchen> it's hard to see the difference between white and silver.
21:51:30  <Zuu> IIRC C++ do not have inheritable static members right?
21:51:31  *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:52:17  <Zuu> Since there is no way of passing around types really.
21:52:43  <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/gray.png <- that gray looks way better, though it's currently very hackish
21:53:58  <frosch123> added a new text colour?
21:54:41  <frosch123> or a no-shadow flag?
21:54:50  <andythenorth> anybody want an adventure in 15 bit cb results?
21:54:55  <andythenorth> it's a simple quest
21:55:00  <Wolf01> make them blue like the servicing one
21:55:04  <Rubidium> frosch123: removed the shade from the current colour
21:55:34  <andythenorth> I need to return results > 255
21:55:35  <andythenorth> http://pastebin.com/H9BQdDTJ
21:55:48  <fonsinchen> I just spotted a problem: you shouldn't be able to timetable auto orders ...
21:56:04  <frosch123> andythenorth: what's the problem? just add 0x8000 ?
21:57:44  <andythenorth> frosch123: I haz brain freeze
21:58:05  <andythenorth> returning FFF0h to the cb doesn't produce expected result
21:58:30  <frosch123> FFxx is not valid
21:58:37  <frosch123> the biggest value is 0xFEFF
21:58:55  <frosch123> you only have almost 15 bit :)
21:59:11  <frosch123> (unless you use computed results)
21:59:20  <hnsz2002> Xaroth: and how? i did not find an example in wiki
21:59:56  <frosch123> so, if you want to return 0x432D, then write \wxC32D
22:00:02  <frosch123> 4 + 8 = C
22:00:06  *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:00:21  <Xaroth> not everything has examples, some things requires some trying.
22:01:05  <frosch123> hmm, would \wr be a useful escape sequence?
22:01:15  *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
22:01:16  <andythenorth> frosch123: yes
22:01:21  <frosch123> \wr and \wrx for word valued returns
22:01:27  *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit []
22:01:40  <andythenorth> I would also like to figure out an answer to some CPP define problem I had with cb results
22:02:01  <andythenorth> but not now - I have caught ill from my junior germ factory
22:02:01  <frosch123> iirc someone had problems returning some #defined stuff
22:02:16  <andythenorth> I have notes about it all over HEQS or FIRS code somewhere
22:02:36  *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd
22:04:00  <Rubidium> fonsinchen: http://rbijker.net/openttd/gray.diff seems to do the trick "more" nicely
22:04:11  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21604 /trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp: -Add: Variable 7B for accessing 60+x variables while taking the parameter from the accumulator.
22:05:08  <frosch123> the second & is not needed
22:06:08  <Rubidium> in the "IS_PALETTE_COLOUR" case? Yeah, you're right
22:07:30  <fonsinchen> nice
22:08:22  <frosch123> Lakie`: a litte late, but added :)
22:08:31  <andythenorth> good night
22:08:37  <Lakie`> Has it changed since the diff I made?
22:08:48  <Lakie`> Or can I just commit that happily? :)
22:08:54  <frosch123> i guess so :)
22:08:56  *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
22:09:07  <frosch123> i'll update the specs
22:10:15  *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
22:12:11  <fonsinchen> Unfortunately auto-orders break timetabling. I'll have to fix that.
22:17:11  *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@77.106.155.124] has joined #openttd
22:17:51  * Lakie` sets it to jump to badaction2 if the value following 7B isn't a 60+x var
22:17:56  *** Lakie` is now known as Lakie
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22:19:34  <frosch123> renum only warns about that, but does not consider it invalid
22:23:24  <Lakie> Hmmm... Well, I suppose I could let it give any 40+x or 80+x var
22:23:29  <Lakie> wouldn't cause any harm
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22:39:59  <supermop> hello
22:40:10  <DanMacK> Hey
22:41:49  <supermop> reading your screenshot thread right now actually
22:43:48  <DanMacK> Cool :D
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22:44:56  <supermop> looks very warm, compared to here
22:45:34  <DanMacK> That's the attraction...  lol
22:45:52  * DanMacK looks out at the 5 feet of snow outside
22:48:24  <Markk> Srsly?
22:48:46  <Markk> I have 1-1.5 feet of snow like.
22:50:11  <DanMacK> Let's say 3-4, it's being cleaned out daily
22:50:45  <Markk> Sheisse, where do you live?
22:50:46  <fonsinchen> I think I've fixed the timetabling. But I'll have to take a think about it some more before I'm really confident.
22:50:58  <fonsinchen> And I've merged Rubidiums changes
22:51:19  *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit]
22:51:26  <fonsinchen> :O
22:51:31  <fonsinchen> and I need to sleep
22:51:35  <supermop> ooh
22:51:42  <fonsinchen> good night
22:52:02  <DanMacK> Ontario, Canada
22:52:48  *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba8d53.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:53:04  <Markk> DanMacK: ah
22:59:07  <DanMacK> Supermop, I've got alot planned for this game :)
23:00:04  <supermop> looks interesting so far
23:00:38  <DanMacK> Not a real opportunity for rail, that's for sure
23:00:57  <supermop> i like the trams as shortlines
23:01:27  <DanMacK> :)  Thanks
23:01:55  <DanMacK> Some have been bumped by trucks by 1928 (where I am now...)
23:03:21  <supermop> was just thinking about late diesel trams
23:03:38  <DanMacK> They're planned...
23:03:56  <supermop> not sure how common minimum gauge diesels are
23:04:00  <DanMacK> Andy has an 0-6-0 and an 0-8-0 steamer for the next release of HEQS
23:04:15  <DanMacK> Alot actually
23:04:21  <planetmaker> there's another? ;-)
23:04:27  <planetmaker> I thought 1.0 is 'done' :-P
23:04:43  <DanMacK> There's 2.0 after 1.0 ;)
23:05:02  <Wolf01> or 1.1
23:05:10  <Rubidium> but... to make version ordering really awkward:
23:05:10  <supermop> now all we need is roadtypes to allow tramway without caternary
23:05:22  <Rubidium> there's sleep before 2.0 (or 1.1)
23:05:26  <DanMacK> Yeah...  that's the next step
23:05:33  <DanMacK> Sleep is necessary, yes
23:05:51  <DanMacK> I'm plannign a few diesels though
23:06:02  * DanMacK drew the steam locos
23:06:26  * DanMacK really needs to stop getting involved in other sets and finish his own
23:07:39  <supermop> heh
23:08:01  <DanMacK> it is nice to be in demand though :P
23:10:27  <Terkhen> :)
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23:27:06  <planetmaker> sleep sounds good... good night :-)
23:27:15  <DanMacK> Laters
23:30:11  * DanMacK is off, and to everyone, a Merry Christmas, Happy Holiday and all that jazz
23:30:54  * ABCRic is off to bed too
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23:33:14  <Terkhen> good night
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