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Log for #openttd on 3rd January 2011:
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00:00:24  <supermop> is it possible to disable level crosssings for a rail type?
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00:02:35  <Eddi|zuHause> it was proposed once, not sure if it was implemented
00:02:55  <Eddi|zuHause> if it is, it should be documented as a newgrf property
00:04:05  <supermop> thinking of something along the lines of the tto monorail
00:04:26  <supermop> also want to disable X crossovers
00:04:30  <supermop> but
00:04:31  <Eddi|zuHause> it should also be easy to implement
00:04:37  <supermop> im sure that is not possible
00:04:50  <Eddi|zuHause> no, that won't be possible
00:04:51  <supermop> basically
00:05:07  <supermop> ideally i would have two monorail types,
00:05:25  <supermop> one, Xs would be impossible or expensive,
00:05:42  <supermop> other would be more expensive track, but Xs would be possible
00:06:04  <supermop> also would like a monorail only bridge
00:06:14  <supermop> but i am getting ahead of myself
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00:06:55  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i'm not sure if you can define bridges for each railtype individually
00:07:04  <supermop> yeah
00:07:13  <supermop> a shame
00:10:08  <DanMacK> Supermop, what type of housing set?
00:10:15  <supermop> metabolist
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00:33:39  <supermop> man i cannot find all these rhino models I made for this stuff in the spring
00:35:07  <dihedral> you do java?
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00:35:36  <supermop> nope
00:35:54  <dihedral> but you do rhino?
00:35:55  <supermop> i play go on a java app though
00:36:07  <dihedral> that is a shame
00:36:12  <supermop> rhinoceros, the nurbs modeller
00:36:27  <supermop> i use grasshopper as well at times
00:36:31  <dihedral> ah - i though as in the embeded javascript rhino
00:36:37  <supermop> never had a need to use java in archiecture
00:36:56  <supermop> but i would not be against learning it eventually
00:37:06  <supermop> just a low roi
00:37:32  <dihedral> if you feel interested in doing some rhino stuff - you could create a plugin for me :-)
00:37:53  <supermop> which rhno are we talking about
00:37:59  <supermop> actually to be honest
00:38:22  <supermop> i have been thinking of making a java front end for grasshopper for work
00:41:04  <dihedral> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/joan
00:41:58  <supermop> what is this?
00:43:53  <dihedral> a java library to connect to openttd servers on the admin port
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01:23:13  <Wolf01> 'night
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01:26:18  <__ln__> anyone seen the 'Rare Exports' movie?  (besides me)
01:34:04  <dihedral> wrong time of day to expect answers to something like that :-P
01:36:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember any movie by that name
01:37:02  <__ln__> it's a new one, a finnish one.
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01:37:53  <__ln__> which is being exported to various countries, which is quite unusual.
01:38:40  <__ln__> this one: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1401143/
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01:42:32  <dihedral> lol!!
01:42:35  <dihedral> [2011-01-03 02:41:57] dbg: [net] [admin] Rcon command from 'Simple Console' (0.1): 'say hi'
01:42:35  <dihedral> Error: Assertion failed at line 133 of /home/nathanael/Development/openttd/src/console.cpp: IsValidConsoleColour(colour_code)
01:42:45  <dihedral> i recall there being a colour validation commit recently
01:44:45  <Eddi|zuHause> wouldn't "validation" mean "error" [or correction] rather than "assert"?
01:47:59  <SmatZ> dihedral: someone is passing illegal colour value
01:48:27  <SmatZ> or ConsoleColour needs extension
01:48:28  <dihedral> NetworkTextMessage using IConsolePrintF
01:48:39  <dihedral> casted to TextColour
01:49:07  <dihedral> a CC_DEFAULT is cast to TextColour
01:50:31  <dihedral> and i only found that by chance :-P mucking around with the admin port, using a console client and just by chance ran the command 'say hi' :-P
01:50:35  <dihedral> boom
01:50:37  <SmatZ> :)
01:50:49  <SmatZ> well, it wouldn't crash in release build, as they are compiled without asserts
01:51:03  * dihedral wraps it up and gives it to SmatZ as a Birthday present :-D
01:51:36  <dihedral> well, yes - still, if the assert is there it might make sense to incorperate it correctly :-P
01:51:38  <SmatZ> :D
01:51:59  <dihedral> well - not incorporate, but fix the issue ^^
01:52:58  <SmatZ> dihedral: I wonder what is the backtrace
01:53:03  <SmatZ> anyway, please open a bugreport :)
01:53:04  <dihedral> i have it :-P
01:53:59  <SmatZ> network_server.cpp:1145 I guess
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01:55:37  <dihedral> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4371
01:56:08  <__ln__> hmmmmm...... UnitTest++ seems to be quite a cool solution for C++ unit testing.
01:57:20  <dihedral> uh ... i hope i will not be killed for reporting that bug :-P
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02:33:49  <supermop> hmm
02:33:56  <supermop> this monorail is hard to draw
03:06:38  <dihedral> hehe - good night :-)
03:06:58  <supermop> good night
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03:57:18  <supermop> anyone around?
03:57:26  <SmatZ> yeah
03:57:36  <supermop> whats up, smatz?
03:57:58  <SmatZ> not much :)
03:58:00  <SmatZ> you?
03:58:15  <supermop> started drawing a rail set on a whim
03:58:34  <SmatZ> :)
03:58:50  <supermop> i was trying to figure out how to code a variety of depot graphics, for my mlss set
03:59:11  <supermop> ie so that the actual depots could vary based on track type
03:59:47  <supermop> seems like the most straightforward way to do it is to make my own set of tracks
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05:03:05  <kamnet> When making a graphic, what rgb color do I need to use for the primary company color?
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05:07:44  <kamnet> Ahaz I figured it out I feel elite :D
05:09:06  <supermop> nice!
05:09:11  <supermop> hey kamnet
05:09:23  <kamnet> Hey Supermop!
05:09:29  <kamnet> I left ya some mail while you were on break
05:10:01  <supermop> yeah i just saw it today
05:10:42  <supermop> by break you mean stuck in the midwest due to massive blizzard canceling my flight?
05:11:22  <supermop> anyway
05:11:35  <supermop> i am working on depots right now
05:11:52  <supermop> glad to have yor help if you want to pitch in
05:11:53  <kamnet> Well I noticed you hadn't been on for a few weeks. And you don't have to remind me of blizards. I'm glad all this crap finally melted off.
05:12:48  <supermop> so here is what i am up to now;
05:12:53  <kamnet> I'm still taking baby steps. I'm still pretty-near clueless with code. But I've figured out I'm pretty good at taking small bit of GRFs and tweaking the graphics a little
05:12:59  <supermop> i gave up on coding thoses fences for a bit
05:13:23  <supermop> now i am drawing graphics for a very simple railtype grf
05:13:58  <supermop> which will contain the three depot styles
05:14:16  <supermop> hopefully i can get it to just work with what ever other rail grf you have loaded
05:15:23  <kamnet> What are you going to do with the fake depots?
05:16:40  <supermop> they will stay part of MLSS, which will be a purely station grf
05:17:14  <kamnet> Sorry that's what I was asking about, is MLSS pretty much done?
05:17:21  <supermop> going to pm you something on the forum
05:17:26  <supermop> no
05:17:31  <supermop> i just hit a wall
05:17:35  <supermop> coding walls
05:17:57  <kamnet> Ahh :D
05:18:05  <supermop> has been draining me every time i open up notepad to take aa shot at it
05:19:24  <supermop> ok i sent you a screen shot of my photoshop right now
05:20:16  <roboboy> !logs
05:20:41  <kamnet> I like a few of those new sprites!
05:20:44  <supermop> take them to the sawmill!
05:21:07  <kamnet> Wait, logs are not a defined cargo, did you mean lumber? :D
05:21:11  <supermop> that was addressed to robotboy
05:22:09  <supermop> anyway, that picture hasnt chanced much since october
05:22:18  <kamnet> Looks intense
05:22:32  <supermop> tonight i added those monorail graphics,
05:22:50  <supermop> and started work on that depot with the big skylight on the right
05:23:11  <kamnet> So is that a modern masonry building?
05:23:40  <supermop> sort of
05:23:49  <supermop> like 1890s to 1950s
05:24:14  <supermop> supposed to be in the theme of the larger roundhouse
05:24:52  <supermop> so in a hypothetical rail grf
05:25:42  <supermop> the old looking masonry depot would be for the slowest speed track
05:26:28  <supermop> the sort of modern one for medium and 3rd rail, no overhead
05:27:09  <supermop> the metal depot for 3rd + overhead, fast rail, and possibly high speed, monorail, and maglev
05:27:41  <kamnet> Nifty idea!
05:28:07  <supermop> i might make a shiny metal shed for maglev and high speed
05:28:09  <supermop> but
05:28:19  <supermop> i think there is enough right now
05:29:06  <supermop> that picture also has some sprites for feeder stations and custom founddations
05:29:25  <kamnet> I saw the bare metal structure as well
05:30:21  <supermop> so i am thinking of making slightly different depots for electrified and no electrified
05:30:32  <supermop> so one can tell them apart easier
05:30:56  <kamnet> How would you make them different?
05:31:05  <supermop> but i do not just want to put a few huge insulators on the roof like the ogfx tram depot
05:31:34  <supermop> something like slightly different skylights or louvers
05:32:16  <supermop> also, as far as I know, the depot cannot use CC
05:33:01  <kamnet> That sucks, would make it easy to identify depots in multiplayer
05:33:54  <supermop> would love for someone to prove me wrong
05:34:17  <supermop> but for now, I do not want tons of blue stripes on them because i was confused
05:37:55  <kamnet> I'm trying to expand on my truck & bus lots right now. Working on a GRF for OzTrans to get permission to use the NARoads dirt and pavement.
05:38:52  <supermop> nice
05:42:27  <kamnet> And I'm going to throw CC on them. For the dirt roads I'm going to make corner posts on the road entrances in 2CC, for the paved lots it will be a 1CC stripe facing the road, so you can tell which direction they go.
05:43:33  <supermop> sounds good
05:43:38  <supermop> i like discrete cc
05:43:49  <supermop> i wish we had road types
05:53:39  <kamnet> Yes that would be nice.  Which reminds me... I may have just enough courage to attempt a road based on Industrial Station Renewal.
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05:56:05  <supermop> a RV stop that matched isr would be really nice
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06:00:39  <supermop> here is a question:
06:01:07  <supermop> should a depot have 'fake' closed doors on the back, or jusst a wall?
06:07:01  <kamnet> I've never actually seen a depot in person, would it have doors on both ends or would one end be closed?
06:07:38  <kamnet> I imagine most modern depots have doors and rails on both ends and they're just the drive-thru sort but I dunno about the older ones
06:07:40  <supermop> well
06:08:00  <supermop> a tt style depot doesnt really exist in real life
06:08:08  <supermop> there are little engine sheds though
06:08:32  <kamnet> I'd say fake closed doors would be fine
06:08:36  <supermop> they can have doors on both ends or not
06:09:07  <supermop> many older ones were open on all sides, with just a roof
06:21:47  <kamnet> hmmmm
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06:46:14  <yuriks> I have 50 trains on this one line... I think I'm gonna hit the limit
06:48:29  <supermop> hmm
06:48:36  <supermop> too tired to keep drawing
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06:58:08  <kamnet> Ugh, I hear ya... almost 2am
06:58:16  <kamnet> I just got done with my lots, about to test 'em.
06:58:29  <supermop> neat
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07:11:24  <supermop> ok i think i will be heading off
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07:18:35  <kamnet> Good morning andy
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07:54:29  <andythenorth> mornings
07:54:37  <andythenorth> stupid grfmaker argument I see
07:54:47  <andythenorth> that was a a waste of some bytes
07:55:55  <kamnet> I apparently missed it
07:56:18  <kamnet> Doubt I would have understood it thought... :D
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08:18:46  * andythenorth concludes that sorting out level crossings is a right arse
08:20:19  <andythenorth> dealing with newgrf rail types using overlays appears to be trivial
08:20:35  <andythenorth> dealing the other case is not
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08:21:25  <andythenorth> it could be easily fixed by introducing new sprites, but that would lose compatibility with the ttd base set
08:21:48  <planetmaker> moin
08:22:01  <planetmaker> andythenorth: the level crossings: rail has to be on top or it gets inconsistent
08:22:14  <planetmaker> railtypes draw on top of the roads
08:22:16  <andythenorth> true for rail types using the overlay
08:22:21  <andythenorth> but not for the other case
08:22:28  <andythenorth> in the other case the crossing sprite is one graphic
08:22:33  <planetmaker> visually also in the other case ;-)
08:22:36  <andythenorth> which causes several problems
08:22:49  <planetmaker> your mock-up(?) looks like road over rail
08:22:54  <andythenorth> it is
08:23:02  <andythenorth> rail over road doesn't work in that case
08:23:09  <planetmaker> why?
08:23:18  <andythenorth> the rail / monorail has visual artefacts, and maglev is totally broken
08:23:25  <planetmaker> ?
08:23:55  <andythenorth> planetmaker: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/road-rail-crossing-3.png
08:24:18  <kamnet> Good morning planetmaker. I was just looking for OpenGFX+ landscape, I can't find it though :-(
08:24:38  <andythenorth> I can't simply draw tram track crossings - massive copyright infringement :P
08:24:41  <planetmaker> andythenorth: except maglev-tram it looks ok
08:25:08  <planetmaker> and... for these new level crossings you have to provide sprites in the old style, yes.
08:25:17  <andythenorth> planetmaker: there's always an 'except'
08:25:35  <planetmaker> kamnet: it's not yet on bananas and not sure - might not even have a nightly version yet.
08:25:38  <andythenorth> I can't special case maglev, because I don't know what crazy stuff newgrf authors will invent
08:25:45  <andythenorth> they might do something similar to maglev
08:26:19  <planetmaker> yes... yesterday's (first) nightly failed :-P
08:26:52  <planetmaker> andythenorth: you don't have to worry about rail types much. Just provide a special sprite and let railtypes draw on top of it.
08:26:52  <kamnet> Darn. :-(   I saw your follow-up on my rock and I got excited because of the no grid line option :D
08:27:21  <planetmaker> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-landscape/nightlies/ <-- it will be able to be found there in the future
08:27:25  <andythenorth> planetmaker: rail types are fine - I have that code working, there are no problems there
08:27:36  <andythenorth> the issue is if newgrf authors choose not to use rail types
08:27:45  <andythenorth> but invent instead something else
08:27:51  <planetmaker> andythenorth: that is nothing to worry about IMHO, is it?
08:28:02  <andythenorth> NG rail?
08:28:06  <planetmaker> that's a rail type
08:28:06  <andythenorth> for example
08:28:18  <andythenorth> the one that replaces maglev for can set isn't
08:28:38  <planetmaker> bad luck, but a newgrf problem. Not an openttd one. Even not with road types
08:28:59  <planetmaker> if a newgrf replaces base sprites, what should one do? You cannot know that
08:29:10  <planetmaker> then just those have to be used
08:29:13  <andythenorth> newgrf authors and players will complain
08:29:31  <planetmaker> you "just" continue to use their level crossing then
08:29:41  <kamnet> Tell 'em to stuff it and remember that crossing maglev tracks is not realistic :D
08:30:01  <planetmaker> IIRC like the coast sprites. There are two ways :-)
08:30:10  <planetmaker> one base set way and a newgrf way
08:32:11  <kamnet> In other news, I just thought of another excellent replacement for those pesky transmitters... windmills.
08:32:22  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
08:32:30  <planetmaker> I'd code them as new object
08:32:41  <planetmaker> the stone is valid at all times
08:32:44  <planetmaker> wind mills not
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08:33:07  <kamnet> I may just do that.
08:34:06  <kamnet> andythenorth has some modern windmill sprites, right?
08:34:54  <planetmaker> they're part of FIRS, yes
08:35:06  <planetmaker> It might acually be worth to add them to the landscape newgrf as an object
08:35:16  <Terkhen> good morning
08:35:19  <planetmaker> so if you code it in NML I'm happy to include it here ;-)
08:35:21  <planetmaker> moin Terkhen
08:35:39  <kamnet> good morning Terkhen
08:36:09  <planetmaker> anyway, check your forum mail, kamnet
08:37:48  <planetmaker> kamnet: check out http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/changes/sprites/pcx/industries/windfarm.pcx for the graphics
08:38:13  <andythenorth> hmm
08:38:27  <andythenorth> applying simplicity to the crossing problem....
08:38:43  <andythenorth> the easiest way to support non-overlayed is to do same as overlayed: put the rail on top
08:38:50  <planetmaker> of course
08:39:03  <andythenorth> and add sprites to openttd_grf for the rail pieces
08:39:10  <planetmaker> yep :-)
08:39:13  <andythenorth> only one problem: GPL / copyright
08:39:28  <planetmaker> not really... Ever looked at openttd.grf ?
08:39:40  <andythenorth> I've looked at the tram tracks
08:39:44  <kamnet> woot! Thanks planetmaker
08:39:49  <planetmaker> well. they're genuine
08:39:59  <andythenorth> ah
08:40:15  <andythenorth> I see we infringe both copyright + GPL on the airport previews :P
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08:41:18  <planetmaker> and fix_grpahics.png
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08:42:39  <planetmaker> and other pngs for openttd.grf, in that sense, too
08:43:35  <kamnet> Hey speaking of airport, I just noticed something... smoke coming from buildings blows west-east... the windsock on the small airport blows east-west
08:43:37  <planetmaker> the only alternative is to drop support for the TTD sprites
08:43:54  <planetmaker> he... :-P
08:44:03  <planetmaker> you're quite right!
08:44:15  <planetmaker> want to make a fix for that?
08:44:26  <planetmaker> (quite honestly asking that)
08:44:53  <kamnet> Hmmm... just one problem. Gotta find a new place to put the windsock
08:44:54  <planetmaker> when people start with sailing boats it might become an issue of sorts
08:45:07  <planetmaker> same place. Just different direction it blows
08:45:26  <kamnet> Will it cause a problem if you flip the windsock over and have it extend beyond the airport boundary?
08:46:27  <planetmaker> no, it's a separate sprite
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08:46:55  <kamnet> well I suppose I can give it a go... where's this bugger at?
08:47:26  <planetmaker> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/newgrf.php?1=2633:2691
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08:50:24  <andythenorth> planetmaker: providing rail overlay also needs opengfx updated
08:50:46  <planetmaker> yes, I know
08:50:54  <andythenorth> ok
08:51:16  <planetmaker> you could be a nice guy and fix the sprites for both TTD and OpenGFX, though ;-)
08:52:13  <planetmaker> Unless you just re-use the already existing overlay sprites for all track types
08:52:32  <planetmaker> Though not sure how good they are for this means for monorail and maglev
08:53:11  <planetmaker> new might be better, though e.g. for SER it works nicely for me to just re-use the overlay sprites for level crossings
08:53:18  <planetmaker> with a slight modification, possibly
08:53:36  <planetmaker> hm... yes
08:53:40  <kamnet> OK windsock fixed
08:53:53  <planetmaker> all four? :-)
08:54:02  <kamnet> Yup
08:54:07  <planetmaker> cool
08:54:21  <planetmaker> did you just invert them or drew a new one?
08:54:28  <kamnet> Just inverted :D
08:54:42  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... my screen doesn't switch on properly anymore
08:55:21  <planetmaker> Hm, might just work ok, I guess :-)
08:55:34  <planetmaker> did you do that for both, TTD and OpenGFX? :-)
08:56:27  <planetmaker> well, though... I guess... just inverting is easy ;-)
08:56:38  <kamnet> just open GFX...
08:56:48  <kamnet> Hm... yeah maybe it should be drawn...
08:57:19  <andythenorth> planetmaker: the maglev is broken for overlays - most of the 'track' is actually the base
08:58:48  <andythenorth> where do I add these?  fix_graphics.png?
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09:02:11  <planetmaker> not entirely sure which is best, I don't know all pngs for openttd.grf
09:02:21  <planetmaker> Look and judge, it's not crucial :-)
09:03:38  <planetmaker> fix_graphics.png might not be the worst :-)
09:06:27  <kamnet> Hm, not sure there's enough room to properly redraw the sock
09:10:56  <andythenorth> ho
09:11:09  <andythenorth> the rail overlays can be used to also fix the PBS reservation sprites
09:11:18  <andythenorth> further
09:11:29  <andythenorth> that makes a nice small patch on its own
09:12:45  <kamnet> How's this windsock look?
09:13:01  <kamnet> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=139117
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09:21:08  <kamnet> I've redrawn the windsocks, Planetmaker, care to check 'em out?
09:22:32  <andythenorth> with hg q, do I have to create new patch before writing code?
09:22:52  <planetmaker> andythenorth: you don't
09:23:01  <andythenorth> does it harm if I do?
09:23:06  <planetmaker> if you do hg qnew after having written something it becomes that patch
09:23:22  <andythenorth> ok
09:23:31  <andythenorth> I'll learn more by doing...
09:23:54  <planetmaker> kamnet: IMHO it looks a bit like if the wind is going to the lower right... instead of upper right
09:24:03  <planetmaker> might be visually deceiving though
09:24:15  <kamnet> Just dropped the new winsocks in forum mail
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09:24:31  <kamnet> I've got them all going towards the top-right corner of the sprite now
09:25:00  <andythenorth> hmm
09:25:09  <andythenorth> I need to get the original track sprites to modify them
09:25:18  <planetmaker> also, for ease of viewing: it's better to have the four versions in one graphics file, kamnet ;-)
09:25:28  <andythenorth> do I need to decompile the ttd base set?
09:25:33  <planetmaker> and if you don't zip it (not that big, eh?) I can view w/o downloading :-P
09:25:50  <kamnet> LOL hang on
09:27:13  <planetmaker> don't worry for what you sent. I meant just in general ;-)
09:27:25  <planetmaker> it would also be less work for you, I assume
09:28:01  <planetmaker> got to go now. See you later folks
09:28:11  <kamnet> Well I received them as 4 sepreate files, didn't know if you needed them back that way
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09:38:39  <DDR> In May 11th, 2002, I have no mail trucks. Bother. :(
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09:39:21  <kamnet> That is my wedding anniversary.
09:39:36  <dihedral> good morning
09:39:39  <Eddi|zuHause> my condolences.
09:39:42  <kamnet> No wonder you didn't send me a gift DDR
09:40:01  <kamnet> good morning dihedral
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09:40:14  <dihedral> :-P#
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09:40:24  <DDR> Happy anniversary. :P
09:40:36  <kamnet> lol tyvm
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09:43:02  <DarkTomas> Hello Guys
09:45:08  <dihedral> happy new year to the new guy :-)
09:45:22  <DarkTomas> Thanks
09:45:26  <DarkTomas> You too
09:45:38  <DarkTomas> hm thats horrible english i now sry
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09:46:38  <DarkTomas> Ok my question is when i compile openttd self can use my friends this version ?
09:47:00  <dihedral> depends :-)
09:47:02  <DarkTomas> Oh and Happy Birthday Smatz
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09:47:06  <dihedral> if they use the same os :-)
09:47:12  * andythenorth adventures into new nfo actions :|
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09:47:57  <andythenorth> I don't suppose anyone could just tell me the answer - I am adding to fix_graphics.nfo for extra_grf
09:47:58  <dihedral> i bet SmatZ is sobering-up
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09:48:17  <dihedral> :-P
09:48:25  <andythenorth> I see action 7s and action 0As which are new to me
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09:49:08  <andythenorth> action 7s seem to be checking climate
09:49:18  <Eddi|zuHause> action 7 is similar to action 9
09:49:25  <Eddi|zuHause> and action A is sprite replacement
09:49:35  * dihedral is out for a model plane session :--)
09:49:51  <andythenorth> if graphics are used in all climate, do I need the action 7 here?
09:49:53  <andythenorth> I would have thought no
09:49:56  * Eddi|zuHause gets a feeling dihedral got a model plane for christmas
09:50:07  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no
09:50:10  <andythenorth> k
09:50:11  <andythenorth> thanks
09:50:52  <andythenorth> hmm
09:51:00  <andythenorth> these aren't sprite replacements, they're new
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09:51:06  <andythenorth> action 5?
09:51:46  <andythenorth> yeah, looks like these need to be action 5
09:51:51  <andythenorth> and the spec needs extending
09:52:30  <planetmaker> new GUI sprites need a new action5 entry
09:52:56  <planetmaker> even without GUI ;-)
09:53:22  <andythenorth> looks like I need to invent a new type: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action5
09:53:34  <planetmaker> new type as in new entry? Yes
09:53:45  <andythenorth> these are rail overlays - will (1) improve / fix PBS reservations  (2) enable better crossings
09:53:56  <planetmaker> in what way will it do that?
09:54:01  <planetmaker> (1)
09:54:33  <andythenorth> with default tracks, PBS reservation through a crossing in current trunk will show sleepers (black pixels) in the crossing
09:55:11  <andythenorth> I can fix that as a nice small patch with these overlays
09:55:19  <andythenorth> then I can use them for the tram crossing patch
09:55:24  <andythenorth> and it cleans things up for road types
09:55:32  <planetmaker> andythenorth, that might turn out more complicated than you envision.
09:55:39  <planetmaker> You'll need to fix then also the railtype specs
09:55:44  <planetmaker> "fix"
09:55:53  <planetmaker> and deal with them in a backward compatible manner
09:56:24  <planetmaker> they also only provide the 6(?) overlay graphics for use with pbs reservations
09:56:28  <andythenorth> I might be wrong
09:56:38  <andythenorth> but rail types already have the overlay sprites and use them correctly
09:56:53  <andythenorth> (if the newgrf author provides them)
09:56:57  <planetmaker> they have to
09:57:06  <planetmaker> but... they must come with sleepers
09:57:13  <planetmaker> iirc
09:57:24  <andythenorth> swedish rails doesn't
09:57:32  <andythenorth> or at least, I don't think it does
09:57:36  <planetmaker> he, then my memory is obviously faulty :-P
09:57:38  <andythenorth> looks correct when I tested it
09:58:07  <planetmaker> well. I'd need to check everything to be sure, too...
09:58:16  <andythenorth> the crossing overlay is however the newgrf author chooses to draw it - sleepers, no sleepers :)
09:58:20  <andythenorth> they can do anything
09:58:29  <andythenorth> then the PBS reservation just shifts the palette on that sprite
09:59:00  <andythenorth> or it would if my PBS patch was applied ;)
09:59:10  <andythenorth> currently PBS isn't shown on rail type crossings
09:59:15  <andythenorth> which is wrong
09:59:43  <planetmaker> yes, pbs just shifts palette of the sprites
10:00:15  <andythenorth> this makes that work with rail type overlays: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=52129
10:00:19  <planetmaker> the "problem" is that for a x crossing, it's a separate sprite
10:01:08  <andythenorth> x crossing?
10:01:59  <planetmaker> along the grid lines, two lines intersecting
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10:02:21  <andythenorth> ah
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10:02:31  <andythenorth> level crossing code doesn't touch that at all
10:03:21  * andythenorth tests
10:03:39  <andythenorth> those crossings would also be improved if the overlay (without sleepers) could be used
10:03:56  <andythenorth> but I don't think that's in scope for fixing tram crossings
10:04:08  <planetmaker> point is, a railtype IIRC has to provide sleepers for overlays
10:04:24  <planetmaker> or level crossings don't have sleepers
10:04:41  <planetmaker> as they're composed on the fly: ground sprite + tracks as needed on top
10:05:04  <andythenorth> let me check - you might be describing something I've overlooked
10:05:06  <planetmaker> seems to me still the case when I look at SER graphics
10:06:15  <andythenorth> yes, there are partial sleepers
10:06:21  <andythenorth> ok, let me think about it
10:06:30  <andythenorth> I don't think it affects the non-railtypes case at all
10:06:39  <andythenorth> and I don't think it affects the PBS reservation case
10:07:12  <andythenorth> hmm
10:07:25  <andythenorth> it does present some interesting issues for road sprites
10:07:33  <andythenorth> it rather assumes that all roads are same width
10:07:35  <planetmaker> hm... ok, the x is not used: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swedishrails/repository/entry/src/gfx/rails_overlays_snow.png
10:07:46  <planetmaker> yes, that's unfortunately true
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10:08:17  <andythenorth> I could fix that quite trivially without significant newgrf spec change (just a minor tweak)
10:08:21  <andythenorth> which would be useful in other places
10:08:28  <planetmaker> the road width?
10:10:46  <andythenorth> yup
10:10:53  <planetmaker> well, please :-)
10:11:37  <andythenorth> rail sprite (with full sleepers, the default rail piece) - road - trams - rail overlay for crossings - crossing greeble - road catenary - rail catenary
10:11:37  <andythenorth> done
10:11:42  <andythenorth> except not
10:11:54  <andythenorth> the whole crossing issue could be resolved in a couple of hours with pair coding :P
10:12:03  <planetmaker> sounds feasable
10:12:33  <andythenorth> the only rail types spec change would be that newgrf authors should *not* include sleepers
10:12:38  <andythenorth> but it won't break horribly if they do
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10:13:28  <andythenorth> planetmaker: what are you up to? :D
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10:16:38  <planetmaker> Hm, I rather would amend the railytpe specs, andy: also rails w/o sleepers
10:17:04  <planetmaker> if not present: then use those for level crossings.
10:17:46  <andythenorth> that would be fine
10:18:02  <andythenorth> it's a separate issue to fixing default crossings
10:18:12  <andythenorth> there are many small patches here I think
10:18:36  <andythenorth> I am a bit stuck on getting new overlay sprites into the base set
10:19:34  <planetmaker> hm. Actually, andythenorth: It requires no change for rail type specs
10:19:40  <andythenorth> I hoped not
10:19:47  <planetmaker> it "just" needs to re-define how the level crossing track sprites are used
10:19:48  <andythenorth> I read a lot of that yesterday ;)
10:19:55  <planetmaker> sorry, just noticed now :-)
10:20:31  <planetmaker> and it means to ask rail type authors to change those sprites to rail only, w/o sleepers and ballast on the sides
10:21:00  <planetmaker> but that's fine, I think
10:21:08  <planetmaker> no big issue, if that's not done
10:21:37  <planetmaker> as it will remain compatible, just it will continue to look less than optimal. But that's already the case now
10:21:47  <andythenorth> exactly
10:21:56  <planetmaker> So nothing will break more, if they don't change. But it will improve, if they do.
10:22:05  <planetmaker> Sorry, I need more tea :-)
10:22:06  <andythenorth> and in reality, there are no road sets with weird widths (yet)
10:22:10  <andythenorth> ah, me too
10:22:10  <planetmaker> Please write a patch :-)
10:22:27  <andythenorth> I am :)
10:22:58  <planetmaker> I'll be home late tonight only, but I might have a look, then, when you somehow tell me what patch to read
10:23:09  <andythenorth> k
10:23:25  <andythenorth> I need some way to make the game know about my new action 5 type & the sprites I've added
10:24:12  <planetmaker> look up the airport preview sprites patch
10:24:15  <planetmaker> It should give a guide
10:24:16  <andythenorth> ok thanks
10:24:24  <andythenorth> I would search more myself, but I have a baby in one hand
10:24:25  <planetmaker> s/patch/commit/
10:24:27  <andythenorth> it's not easy :P
10:24:30  <planetmaker> :-P
10:24:46  <planetmaker> parents have to learn the hard way how to multi-task ;-)
10:24:55  <andythenorth> it's a bad idea
10:25:15  <planetmaker> baby? parenting? level crossings? I think neither :-P
10:25:22  <planetmaker> (is a bad idea)
10:25:44  <andythenorth> both at once is a bad idea
10:25:54  <planetmaker> learn faster :-P
10:26:18  * planetmaker better hides
10:27:31  <andythenorth> how can I safely choose new sprite numbers? :o
10:30:07  <andythenorth> I need to add to sprites.h
10:32:20  * andythenorth considers using sprite number 999999
10:32:28  <andythenorth> no-one else will use that, right? :P
10:32:58  <LordAro> :D
10:33:32  <andythenorth> Rubidium: ^^ can you help?
10:36:24  <Rubidium> andythenorth: anything beyond the original number of sprites can be changed reasonably easy; they're all loaded in blocks using action5 (or are actionAs)
10:36:39  <Rubidium> so just make the tram track bits block a bit longer?
10:36:57  *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:37:00  <Rubidium> or introduce a new action5?
10:37:07  <andythenorth> I think I need a new action5
10:37:09  <dihedral> * Eddi|zuHause gets a feeling dihedral got a model plane for christmas <- nope
10:37:24  <andythenorth> but I have to specify sprite numbers in sprites.h?
10:37:56  <dihedral> just good weather and a flyable plane :-P
10:38:02  <dihedral> and charged batteries
10:38:56  <Rubidium> andythenorth: take a look at line 150-180 to get an idea
10:39:01  <Rubidium> (of table/sprites.h)
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10:48:26  <LordAro> Yexo: here: http://hg.openttdcoop.org/ai-admiralai/file/00069000d893/info.nut for the version, you reference a version.nut, but it doesn't appear to exist... where is it? :)
10:49:44  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: maybe it's created by the makefile?
10:50:57  <LordAro> so it is... :D
10:51:45  <LordAro> well, presuming this line makes it: @echo 'revision <- '`hg id -n | cut -d+ -f1`';' > version.nut
10:52:23  <Eddi|zuHause> looks like it
10:52:43  <LordAro> i'm not that good coding in Makefile :D
10:56:44  <LordAro> Factoid of the day: Over 7 trillion SMS messages 'to be sent worldwide in 2011'
10:57:30  <Eddi|zuHause> that's only like 3 per person and day
10:58:16  <LordAro> but consider that about 3 billion (?) people don't have mobiles...
10:58:37  <Eddi|zuHause> then it's 6 for the other people...
10:59:02  <andythenorth> I figured I might be able to ask a better question in the forums: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=52122&p=922575#p922575
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13:41:57  <Ammler> patch q?
13:42:09  <andythenorth> hg patch queue
13:42:21  <Ammler> ok, the qrefresh and post the patch
13:42:43  <planetmaker> andythenorth, hg qdiff
13:42:59  <Ammler> also if you use mq, you should also add "nodates = 1" to the [diff] section
13:43:02  <planetmaker> hg diff only shows the difference to your (checked-in) patch
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13:44:13  <Ammler> such a patch is like a common hg changeset
13:45:16  <andythenorth> Ammler: nodates = 1
13:45:18  <andythenorth> ach
13:45:23  <andythenorth> stupid safari clipboard :D
13:45:28  <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=52122&p=922595#p922595
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13:49:14  <andythenorth> Ammler: ^ does that compile for you?
13:50:13  <Ammler> no, I got the linter failure
13:50:50  <andythenorth> that'll be renum them
13:51:08  <Ammler> make clean doesn't clean the grfs?
13:52:45  <andythenorth> not sure
13:52:52  <Yexo> it doens't
13:53:02  <andythenorth> ok
13:53:09  <andythenorth> so I looked at renum code
13:53:24  <dihedral> Yexo: regarding IsValidConsoleColour()
13:53:40  <andythenorth> I can't see where renum defines the known action 5 types
13:53:43  <dihedral> if the company colour is used on the console, that thing failes
13:54:12  <Yexo> dihedral: Rubidium already has a patch to fix the crash you experienced yesterday
13:54:30  <dihedral> oh?
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13:54:37  <Yexo> also, SmatZ introduced that, not me
13:54:41  <dihedral> he made 3 commits today, so i assume it's not what fixes the bug yet :-P
13:54:44  <dihedral> oh
13:54:51  <dihedral> sorry Yexo :)
13:55:11  <dihedral> for some odd reason i thought it was you :-S
13:55:21  <Yexo> it happens :)
13:55:47  <Ammler> andythenorth: you added new feature to Action5, seems not possible
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13:55:59  <dihedral> well - if Rubidium has a fix, then i do not need to try to fix it :-P
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13:56:55  <andythenorth> Ammler: that would mean the base set can't be extended?
13:57:11  <andythenorth> so tram tracks are unfixable?
13:57:17  <Ammler> well, not supported by the makefile
13:57:40  <andythenorth> if openttd.grf can't be built, there's no way to provide new base set graphics
13:58:02  * ZirconiumX feels very sorry for andythenorth
13:58:05  <Ammler> I run grfcodec manually there
13:58:35  <andythenorth> Ammler: try it..
13:58:53  <dihedral> ZirconiumX, nah - it's just andythenorth :-P
13:59:04  <dihedral> he's getting used to it :-D
13:59:58  <ZirconiumX> dihedral: Just as well, really.
14:00:12  <dihedral> :-P
14:00:22  <dihedral> hello by the way
14:00:29  <ZirconiumX> ;)
14:00:40  <ZirconiumX> hello to you too
14:05:31  <andythenorth> ach
14:05:38  <andythenorth> how hard can it be to patch nforenum?
14:06:02  *** LordAro [56a754a1@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
14:06:37  <Ammler> andythenorth: how to test your patch?
14:07:00  <andythenorth> Ammler: (1) does it compile
14:07:22  <andythenorth> (2) use the sprite aligner to look through base set sprites until the overlays are found :P
14:07:41  <andythenorth> Ammler: you got openttd.grf to build?
14:07:52  <ZirconiumX> Hello LordAro
14:08:35  <Ammler> yes
14:08:46  <Ammler> shall I upload it?
14:08:50  <andythenorth> please
14:09:02  <andythenorth> I'll decompile and check the new sprites are actually present
14:10:19  <LordAro> hello ZirconiumX :)
14:10:33  <Ammler> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=52122&p=922601#p922601
14:11:25  <Ammler> it seems like openttd doesn't care about the extra grf md5sum?
14:12:31  <andythenorth> Ammler: the graphics are present in the game now - sprites 6110 -  6115
14:12:37  <andythenorth> (if you want to check)
14:12:53  <Ammler> yes, but the crossing has still roads
14:13:05  <andythenorth> yeah, I haven't patched for that
14:13:10  <andythenorth> that needs to be separate
14:13:23  <andythenorth> first I need the overlays as a self-contained patch
14:14:00  <andythenorth> meanwhile.....
14:14:00  <andythenorth> The following files are corrupted or missing:
14:14:01  <andythenorth> 	OPENTTD.GRF is corrupt (This file was part of your OpenTTD installation.)
14:14:10  <Ammler> imo, should make a seperate png for your sprites
14:14:18  <andythenorth> I guess that's because the md5 doesn't match?
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14:14:37  <Ammler> yes
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14:14:42  <andythenorth> hmm
14:14:43  <andythenorth> ok
14:14:55  <andythenorth> so how did you get the grf to build?
14:15:22  <Ammler> cd objs/extra_grf && grfcodec -e openttd.grf
14:15:44  <Ammler> cp openttd.grf bin/data/
14:16:49  <andythenorth> so bypassing renum?
14:17:07  <Ammler> no
14:17:35  <andythenorth> hmm
14:17:38  <Ammler> renum has been run and complained about linter error
14:17:38  <andythenorth> well the basics work
14:17:46  <andythenorth> the sprites are in game, I can use them
14:17:51  <Ammler> but I guess, then the make exit
14:17:53  <andythenorth> but if it won't build, it's a crap patch :P
14:18:03  <Ammler> so you need to grfcodec again and make
14:20:36  <andythenorth> hmm
14:20:55  <Ammler> you could also patch the newgrf makefile to ignore the linter error
14:21:29  <andythenorth> that seems the less correct route?
14:21:49  <andythenorth> patching nforenum probably isn't that big a job?
14:21:52  <Ammler> of course, but that needs to be fixed
14:22:04  <andythenorth> I just can't find where it maintains a list of known types for action 5
14:22:38  <Ammler> well, it should not "exit" because of missing feature
14:22:47  <Ammler> that is imo a bug of the build system
14:22:55  <andythenorth> I think that's beyond me to fix
14:23:05  <andythenorth> and shouldn't be part of the crossing patch...
14:23:29  <Ammler> no, also sep., but you are familiar with mq :-P
14:26:43  <Ammler> it might be up to the devs, if they change renum to make less hard error on missing feature (just a warning) or make the makefile not exit because of it
14:31:49  * LordAro wonders about the point of this page: http://wiki.openttd.org/Commit_style was it just put up as a guide for new devs? :)
14:32:27  <LordAro> also, it says that there is a checkscript on the svn server, any chance of a look at that?
14:37:56  <Yexo> "To achieve a coherent whole and to make changelog writing easier, here are some guidelines for commit messages" <- first lilne of that wiki page, isn't that enough reason for it to exist?
14:39:15  <LordAro> yeah, but why would anybody else other than devs need that? i just don't see any point to it have being put on the wiki in the first place
14:42:52  <robotboy> well I use it as a guide for my own private svn repos so it is useful
14:44:07  <Ammler> LordAro: so you think, devs don't need guides anymore?
14:44:36  <Ammler> hmm maybe :-)
14:45:18  <LordAro> but the devs might have put it on their own private wiki-thing-maybe
14:45:36  <LordAro> robotboy: i know, i'm going to do the same :)
14:47:55  <planetmaker> <LordAro> yeah, but why would anybody else other than devs need that? i just don't see any point to it have being put on the wiki in the first place <-- where should it be put then?
14:48:09  <planetmaker> Can't devs use their wiki to put down guidelines which only affect them?
14:48:50  <Ammler> SmatZ: has a wiki page with all his passwords...
14:48:51  <planetmaker> or coding style for infrequent cases? Or newly emerging ones? Why not for everyone to see?
14:49:12  <planetmaker> also... there's no "private wiki"
14:49:29  <planetmaker> there's no reason for that. Why should others not be able to read OpenTTD's way?
14:49:41  <planetmaker> Maybe it's helpful for other people working on other projects, too?
14:50:12  <Ammler> it is also base guide for the devzone projects like opengfx etc.
14:50:22  <Ammler> well, we might not follow that well :-)
14:50:29  <LordAro> ok, ok, i'm just saying... :) i'm just vaguely surprised that the devs are so nice by putting information like that on the wiki
14:50:48  <planetmaker> Ammler, the DevZone commit style is slightly different ;-)
14:50:58  <planetmaker> We omit the "-"
14:51:20  <planetmaker> as it's not been so far worth to introduce on the ground of nearly no project having branches
14:51:39  <Terkhen> I use that commit style guide for all my projects except DevZone ones
14:51:48  <planetmaker> and after all... just consistency within one project is needed
14:51:50  <planetmaker> :-)
14:51:55  <Ammler> the "-" is indeed ugly
14:52:09  <planetmaker> it's logical :-)
14:52:19  <dihedral> the handling of - is ugly in redmine :-P
14:52:42  <Ammler> shht :-P
14:53:14  <Ammler> there are other reasons to not using it, aren't? :-D
14:53:32  <dihedral> \o/ - thanks Yexo
14:53:46  <Yexo> rather thanks dihedral for coding :)
14:54:06  <dihedral> hehe
14:54:06  <dihedral> :-)
14:54:09  <dihedral> you're welcome
14:54:31  <LordAro> the (very useful, and not-pointless-at-all :D) page says that there is a checkscript on the svn server, any chance of a look at that? :)
14:54:32  <Yexo> only thing I changed was a little abstraction in console_cmds.cpp, I added a PrintLineByLine function
14:55:02  <dihedral> oh nice :-)
14:55:06  <Yexo> LordAro: only if you can convince somebody to look it up for you
14:55:18  <LordAro> please? :p
14:55:23  <dihedral> it did cross my mind ^^
14:55:27  <Yexo> no idea where to look + no interest
14:55:38  <Terkhen> LordAro: look for subversion pre-commit hooks, you will find thousand of examples
14:55:59  <LordAro> subversion pre-commit hooks?
14:56:06  <Terkhen> or something roughly similar
14:56:06  <Yexo> ^^ yes, go google that
14:56:57  * LordAro wonders about devzone possibilities... :)
14:57:12  <Yexo> it can do the same
14:58:15  <planetmaker> maybe... again :-) I promise to not complain too much ;-)
14:58:39  * andythenorth wonders what to do next
14:58:44  <andythenorth> start a new mq patch?
14:58:46  <planetmaker> does it work?
14:58:49  <planetmaker> already?
14:58:56  <Terkhen> IIRC it is quite easy to add hooks to mercurial repos
14:59:01  <planetmaker> yes
14:59:04  <andythenorth> planetmaker: it works as much as I can fix now
14:59:11  <planetmaker> we had that already, Terkhen
14:59:13  <andythenorth> either renum or ottd makefile or both need updating
14:59:38  <andythenorth> new overlay sprites are in the game, I can use them
14:59:40  <planetmaker> fix renum ;-)
14:59:54  <andythenorth> I can't see how.  It's completely baffling
15:00:00  <planetmaker> to not return an error, if it finds an unknown action5 ;-)
15:00:14  <andythenorth> I can't even find where it handles action 5
15:00:20  <andythenorth> I found a lot what looks like assembly
15:01:02  <andythenorth> (of)
15:01:31  <Yexo> andythenorth: data.cpp aroujnd line 170
15:01:36  <Yexo> search for _dat5[]
15:04:35  <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/nforenum_rail_crossings.diff <- try this
15:05:39  <Ammler> Yexo: that doesn't solve the issue
15:05:41  <andythenorth> hmm
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15:06:05  <Yexo> Ammler: what exactly does nforenum report?
15:06:07  <andythenorth> I patched nforenum and now have two linter failures :)
15:06:10  <Ammler> linter error
15:06:17  <Yexo> on which sprite?
15:06:32  <Ammler> /!!Fatal Error (44): Invalid feature byte.
15:06:46  <andythenorth> is my nfo wrong and none of us have spotted where?
15:07:11  <andythenorth> http://pastebin.com/81akQ5ye
15:07:58  <Ammler> hmm, it is double
15:08:13  <Ammler> Linter failure on sprite 1362.
15:08:14  <Ammler> Linter failure on sprite 2297.
15:09:05  <Ammler> andythenorth: you added the same twice?
15:09:19  <Ammler> once to tramtracks and once to fix_graphics_bugs?
15:09:21  <andythenorth> that was a mistake - sorry :P
15:09:28  <andythenorth> remove the one from tramtracks locally
15:09:35  <Ammler> does that cause the linter error maybe?
15:09:50  <andythenorth> no
15:10:02  <andythenorth> well it causes one of them ;)
15:10:10  <andythenorth> removing it reduces the error count to 1
15:10:16  <Ammler> ah ok
15:12:18  * fanioz thanks to dihedral , and Yexo
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15:15:17  <Yexo> As far as I can determine my patch for nforenum should be correct, I have no idea why it doesn't fix it
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15:16:00  <Ammler> Yexo: what will happen, if someone later adds a new feature?
15:16:14  <Yexo> adds a new feature to what?
15:16:21  <Ammler> to action5
15:16:40  <Yexo> it gets the next free number and needs a very similar patch to the one above
15:16:46  <Ammler> yes
15:17:31  <Ammler> which makes the whole thing pointless
15:17:43  <Yexo> why does it make it pointless?
15:18:08  <Yexo> to properly check the amount of sprites for every feature nforenum needs to be updated whenever a new feature is added, there is no way around that
15:18:52  <Ammler> yes, so not possible to add a patch without patching nforenum
15:19:12  <Yexo> that doesn't mean it's pointless
15:19:15  <andythenorth> possible to add patches that don't need to extend action 5 :D
15:19:28  <andythenorth> I picked something I thought was simple and found it wasn't
15:19:37  <andythenorth> I guess I just struck lucky ;)
15:19:49  <robotboy> is it desireable to replace all the #defines with consts? My c++ book says #define is deprecated in c++
15:19:55  <Yexo> if instead of adding a new feature to action5 you would have extended type 16 nforenum would have given a warning and not a fatal error
15:19:59  <Ammler> yexo, why does the makefile to exit? the grf would work
15:20:14  <Ammler> need*
15:20:23  <Yexo> Ammler: using an undefined action5 feature causes nforenum to throw a fatal error
15:20:39  <Ammler> yes, which was wrong in this case
15:20:40  <Yexo> which it must do because it doesn't know whether that new features needs real sprites or recolour sprites
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15:21:25  <Ammler> what if openttd devs don't like this feature, the nforenum patching will get useless
15:21:55  <Yexo> that's why it won't be committed to the nforenum repository until the patch that needs it gets committed to openttd
15:21:55  <Ammler> or you would need to add nforenum to the openttd source
15:22:15  <Ammler> yexo, you see
15:22:26  <Yexo> same as that the action5 page onthe ttdpatch wiki won't get updated until it is committed to openttd
15:23:02  <Ammler> so it might still be easier to make a seperate grf
15:23:08  <robotboy> or for that matter gets committed to ttdpatch?
15:23:15  <Yexo> no-one said it was not easier to do that
15:23:27  <Yexo> indeed, during development that would be the easiest way probably
15:23:42  <Yexo> just not correct if you really want trunk-inclusion
15:24:00  <Yexo> robotboy: of course, that's the same :)
15:25:02  * robotboy should go to bed soon
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15:28:32  <DanMacK> Hey all
15:29:58  <Terkhen> hi DanMacK
15:34:03  <Ammler> Yexo: afaik, it would be fine enough, if the makefile itself doesn't exit on that error, that should be doable
15:34:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r21703 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Feature [FS#4372]: list_ai_libs console command to get a list of recognized AI libraries (dihedral)
15:36:24  <robotboy> gnightish
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17:29:02  <frosch123> evening :)
17:29:11  <andythenorth> quak
17:31:06  <frosch123> hmm, someone called me from france :o
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17:41:53  <ZirconiumX> hello
17:46:55  <ZirconiumX> dead chatroom :(
17:47:36  <Terkhen> quick, someone say something!
17:47:58  * ZirconiumX mutters about cliche
17:48:32  <ZirconiumX> andythenorth, how's you patch going?
17:49:31  <ZirconiumX> really dead chatroom :(
17:50:32  * Rubidium dies
17:51:13  * ZirconiumX grabs knife and attempts to blackmail the server
17:51:26  <Terkhen> meh
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17:55:14  * LordAro wonder why people keep interrupting the "longest time without saying anything" record attempt :D
17:55:31  <ZirconiumX> hello LordAro
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17:59:51  <Rubidium> dihedral: http://rbijker.net/openttd/fs4371.diff fix bug, it does?
18:00:02  <Xaroth> ZirconiumX: Technically IRC isn't a living organism...
18:00:40  *** TheMask96 [martijn@sirius.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd
18:00:45  <ZirconiumX> If I put a knife through it, it still won't be living, but it won't work either...
18:03:40  <fjb> Quak frosch123
18:03:48  <frosch123> moin
18:09:16  * andythenorth resumes patching
18:11:31  <andythenorth> I figure there's some helper function somewhere that will check the tile bits and return the track sprite I need (rail, monorail, maglev)?
18:11:34  <andythenorth> maybe GetRailTypeInfo?
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18:23:36  <andythenorth> I need some kind of table that lists the rail / monorail / maglev overlay sprites
18:25:05  <andythenorth> do I extend rail.h?
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18:26:49  <andythenorth> ach
18:26:55  <andythenorth> I'm close, but no cigar so far :(
18:28:40  <andythenorth> I could just write a big if statement :D
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18:32:12  <andythenorth> base_sprites.single_x looks interesting
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18:33:41  <andythenorth> here's my current code: http://pastebin.com/iAKxup4f
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18:34:09  <andythenorth> these overlays shouldn't be conflated with newgrf rail type overlays, although they are very similar
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18:36:05  <andythenorth> I think I need to define base_sprites.overlay_y
18:36:10  <andythenorth> but I'm not sure how
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18:36:59  <andythenorth> I can see a struct for RailtypeInfo
18:37:03  <andythenorth> in rail.h
18:37:14  <andythenorth> but I'm expecting something that looks dict-like
18:37:17  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r21704 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix [FS#4374]: no need to perform any more checks after the connection is closed (Rubidium)
18:37:18  <andythenorth> this is just a list
18:39:23  <andythenorth> :o
18:39:41  <andythenorth> does finding the string in that struct give me some kind of index I then use elsewhere?
18:40:40  <supermop> railtypes?
18:40:44  <supermop> whats going on?
18:40:56  <supermop> i started drawing a rail grf last night
18:41:31  <andythenorth> supermop: improved tram crossings
18:41:59  <andythenorth> maybe
18:42:07  <supermop> i saw your ppost on the forums!
18:42:20  <supermop> surprised no one thought of it before, good idea
18:42:29  <supermop> hope its easily trunkable?
18:43:03  <andythenorth> I have no idea :P
18:43:10  <andythenorth> there is only one way to find out
18:43:14  <supermop> yep
18:43:17  <supermop> good luck
18:43:41  <supermop> are trams a 'road type'?
18:43:49  <andythenorth> yes and no
18:43:50  <supermop> meaning tramways
18:44:24  <andythenorth> the game treats them as a road type, but those no newgrf road type stuff as per rail types
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18:44:28  <andythenorth> those / there's /s
18:44:59  <supermop> well, there used to not me newgrf railtyps either...
18:45:03  <supermop> but
18:45:08  <supermop> theoretically
18:45:36  <supermop> there could be a tramway with muddy tire tracks instead of rails,
18:45:47  <supermop> and HEQs could only drive on them?
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18:46:08  <supermop> no cat. hopefully
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18:46:27  <andythenorth> supermop: there would be a road type for that sort of thing
18:46:33  <andythenorth> if I get that far...
18:46:58  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21705 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
18:46:58  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:58  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: catalan - 5 changes by arnau
18:46:58  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
18:46:58  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 changes by Yexo
18:47:00  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
18:47:00  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by junho2813
18:47:06  <supermop> but it would be possible now as a very messy way to make eycandy off road HEQs
18:47:22  <andythenorth> it would be an odd way to do it, but yes
18:47:53  <supermop> mud roads, plus muddy streets where the dump trucks come into town
18:48:10  <supermop> anyway
18:48:14  <andythenorth> better to try and do road types properly ;P
18:48:21  <supermop> i will just wait patiently for real road types
18:48:30  <andythenorth> I may be a while with this
18:48:38  <andythenorth> It's like C++ for dummies here
18:48:57  <andythenorth> actually it's not the C++, it's the internal structure of the game that's tricky to understand
18:49:05  <LordAro> i know how you feel andy :)
18:49:21  <supermop> the assembler part? or does ottd no have any of that anymore?
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18:53:47  <supermop> anyway
18:54:00  <SmatZ> anywaaaay
18:54:14  <supermop> can nml define different depots for different railtypes?
18:55:13  <andythenorth> if I have a rail tile, how do I check if it's rail / monorail / maglev?
18:56:06  <andythenorth> rti->RailType?
18:59:28  <supermop> no idea
18:59:33  <supermop> i should find out
18:59:37  <supermop> eventually
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19:04:56  <supermop> can i make a very simple rail grf that works with other rail grfs?
19:06:43  <Yexo> yes
19:06:58  <supermop> ok
19:07:28  <Yexo> andythenorth: how did you get the rti? Getting the rti needs the railtype
19:07:30  <supermop> i want to define graphics (depots) for four basic rail types
19:07:38  <Yexo> not sure if there is an easy way backwards though
19:08:06  <supermop> then, be able to use those graphics with the rail types defined by other rail grfs that may be loaded
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19:09:08  <Yexo> supermop: not sure if that's possible
19:09:14  <supermop> oh
19:09:22  <Yexo> IIRC if you want to define graphics for a railtype you need to provide all graphics for that railtype
19:09:34  <supermop> ok
19:09:41  <supermop> what does 'iirc' mean?
19:09:43  <Yexo> not sure though, just carry out a few test to check that
19:09:48  <Yexo> if I recall correctly
19:09:52  <supermop> ah ok
19:10:54  <supermop> i am drawing one with 3 types of rail, an alweg style monorail, and a trasnrapid type of maglev,
19:11:19  <supermop> so i could replace say, nutracks graphics, with those sprites?
19:11:55  *** Cybert1nus is now known as Cybertinus
19:12:21  <Yexo> yes
19:12:35  <supermop> ok
19:12:49  <Muddy> supermop: stop highlighting :P
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19:13:47  <supermop> can i provide graphics for more tan 16 types of rail, then choose which to use  based on the types in the other grf?
19:13:51  <supermop> highlighting?
19:14:10  <supermop> iis my text appearing wierd?
19:14:14  *** ZirconiumX is now known as O11Dmaster
19:14:25  <Muddy> only the two times you said "muddy" :P
19:14:36  <supermop> ahhhh
19:14:39  <Muddy> then it became red and my client started blinking :P
19:14:39  <supermop> hehe
19:14:47  <supermop> sorry
19:15:36  <Yexo> <supermop> can i provide graphics for more tan 16 types of rail, then choose which to use  based on the types in the other grf? <- sort-of, you can have as many graphics as you want in your newgrf and only activate some of them depending on either another grf or based on some parameter
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19:19:52  <supermop> neat!
19:21:47  <supermop> sorry for another question here: the rail sprites have some with ballast and some without ( i assume for junctions?) if i replace the ballasted tracks with the plain track sprites, will the grass/snow/sand show through between the rails?
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19:23:00  <Yexo> not sure,but I think so
19:23:10  <Yexo> best way to find out is just to test it yourself
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19:23:38  <supermop> ok
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19:43:35  <OTTDmaster> It appears that the chatroom silence world record has begun... and ended
19:54:01  <supermop> can a depot have CC on it?
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19:54:37  <OTTDmaster> they already do
19:54:46  <OTTDmaster> the road ones at least
19:55:29  <supermop> there are no published newgrf specs for depots, so i don't know where I would set it to use cc
19:56:29  <OTTDmaster> I'd suggest you look for the road depot sprites and find the pseudosprites attached to it, and then look them up individually
19:56:43  <OTTDmaster> I don't know, I am after all a noob
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20:10:58  <Ammler> how do I remove the "M" from version string?
20:11:06  <Ammler> seems like that has changed
20:11:53  <ABCRic> edit determineversion.vbs
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20:14:02  <fonsinchen> any cargodist players around? Who of you actually use the mouse-over feature in the smallmap?
20:15:27  <fonsinchen> I think I'll remove it. Way too much code for too little benefit and it also doesn't fit the usual style of openttd.
20:15:33  <Rubidium> Ammler: it always added the M to the version string, except for tags because there the version used to be hardcoded
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20:18:30  <Ammler> Rubidium: yes, that is why I wondered, I didn't need to patch findversion.sh for the releases
20:19:31  <supermop> i play it
20:19:57  <supermop> i have used the mouse over a few times
20:21:43  <Ammler> I guess, this is special case of betas?
20:21:56  <fonsinchen> I'll replace it with something else if needed. This is the only place in the game that reacts to mouse hovering and it's a pain to get that right.
20:22:04  <Rubidium> Ammler: no, the release process has changed
20:22:55  <supermop> i could do without it
20:24:38  <Ammler> so I just remove the adding M to the string, that should keep Modified flag for the gamelog
20:25:26  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21706 /trunk/src/pathfinder/opf/opf_ship.cpp: -Fix-ish [FS#4370]: the old ship pathfinder is too stupid to provide "lost" notices; it would even get lost while following it's own path
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20:38:39  <dihedral> can i show all tasks not opened by a certain someone?
20:45:48  <Rubidium> dihedral: probably not easily
20:46:22  <dihedral> shame
20:46:45  <dihedral> btw, i hear you had a fix for fs4371?
20:47:26  <Rubidium> yes, I already asked you to test it
20:47:54  <dihedral> ha! i did not get that
20:47:55  <Rubidium> around 18:00 UTC
20:48:02  <dihedral> @logs
20:48:02  <DorpsGek> dihedral: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
20:48:21  <dihedral> i only have a backlog of the last 50 lines when i reconnect :-)
20:48:30  <dihedral> private messages work better in that case ;-)
20:50:49  <Rubidium> then don't disconnect. Works even better :)
20:50:56  <dihedral> lol :-P
20:53:41  <dihedral> works like a charm
20:53:51  <dihedral> i am just wondering if there could be another corner case
20:54:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21707 /trunk/src/ (console_func.h console_gui.cpp console_type.h): -Fix [FS#4371]: bit too strict assertion on validness of console colours
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21:03:46  <dihedral> thank you Rubidium
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21:26:00  <Ammler> what is this about? "dbg: [misc] SignalSegment too complex. Set _tbdset is full (maximum 256)"
21:27:15  <Ammler> we get that all the time on ps, debug level 0
21:27:40  <dihedral> signal.cpp:156
21:28:06  <Ammler> I assume, it is something bad then :-)
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21:29:26  <dihedral> Adds tile & dir into the set, checks for full set
21:29:26  <dihedral> 	 * Sets the 'overflowed' flag if the set was full
21:29:44  <dihedral> whatever that exactly means :-P
21:30:00  <dihedral> but it does not add tile and dir to the set if you get that message
21:30:18  <ABCRic> unclear documentation is unclear :P
21:30:21  <dihedral> ("_tbdset");    ///< set of open nodes in current signal block
21:31:47  <Ammler> ah, the complex rails are set without signals yet
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21:45:20  <supermop> what is a complex rail?
21:48:57  <dihedral> you'll know it when you see it
21:54:49  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:07:03  <ABCRic> good night
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22:30:22  <kamnet> Good evening all
22:40:14  <Zuu> Good evening.
22:40:58  <Zuu> Regarding the trainset request, *someone* could draw a pixel and code it as a train ang give him as he didn't specify anything regarding the quality ^^
22:41:51  <kamnet> *laughs* They could
22:42:10  * kamnet draws squiggles
22:42:17  <kamnet> "Hey, that's not a Melbourne train!"
22:42:30  <kamnet> Well, that's what *I* think a Melbourne train should look like! Neener!
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22:45:01  <supermop> hello
22:46:39  <supermop> hi kamnet
22:46:47  <supermop> i drew a couple more depots
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22:52:25  <supermop> dont know if you would like to take a look
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22:58:47  <[com]buster> is there some hard limit on how many combosignals may propagate from the same source?
23:01:17  <SmatZ> there is a limit on number of signals in one segment
23:01:21  <SmatZ> I think it's 64
23:01:43  <Guest3130> hey there smartz <;
23:01:48  <SmatZ> hello Guest3130
23:01:52  *** Guest3130 is now known as z-MaTRiX
23:02:05  <z-MaTRiX> :)
23:02:07  <SmatZ> [com]buster: but yes, with combosignals the situation may get more complicated
23:02:21  <z-MaTRiX> hows life?
23:03:08  <SmatZ> I am quite tired :)
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23:16:57  <kamnet> hey supermop
23:17:08  <kamnet> I like looking at pretty sprites, send 'em
23:18:17  <supermop> ok just a bit
23:18:25  <supermop> touching a few things up
23:18:48  <supermop> kamnet, you put together that ragtime grf, no?
23:19:18  <kamnet> I did
23:20:41  <supermop> you ever think about a grf of blues standards for the late golden age of american rail?
23:20:48  <supermop> like say 1930-60
23:21:02  <supermop> listening to bobby bland over here
23:22:24  <kamnet> The problem with putting together such a set falls upon copyright. In the US and most of the world, most stuff after 1923-1928 currently falls under modern copyright laws unless it's explicitly released into the public domain by the rights holder
23:22:37  <supermop> well
23:23:07  <supermop> alot of stuff in the blues repertoir, like st james infirmary, has no rights holder
23:23:19  <supermop> no one knows where it came from
23:24:07  <kamnet> It's not only with the music itself, but also the sound recording.
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23:24:22  <supermop> i guess alot of electric blues really needs vocals to sound complete
23:24:54  <supermop> i was suggesting getting someone in the community to create midis
23:24:56  <supermop> but
23:24:58  <supermop> as above
23:25:18  <supermop> blues without vocals are pretty empty
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23:26:37  <kamnet> If the particular musical piece is in PD, and somebody wants to create a MIDI for it and release it into PD or under GPL, we can work with it.
23:28:29  <supermop> anyway
23:28:37  <supermop> sidetraacked by bobby bland
23:29:06  <supermop> going to finish washing dishes then i'll send you those sprites
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23:30:26  <kamnet> Sweet!
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23:52:58  <supermop> washing dishes in cold water is no fun
23:54:08  <SmatZ> indeed
23:54:28  <Markslap> Washing dishes is no fun
23:54:37  * SmatZ is so happy to have dishwasher
23:56:46  <planetmaker> good late evening
23:56:58  * planetmaker would also like a dish washer...
23:57:43  <glevans2> Markslap, are you having to do dishes to pay your tab?
23:58:09  <Markslap> Tab as in?
23:58:23  <glevans2> ate/drank too much somewhere...
23:58:35  <Markslap> Ah, you think like that.
23:58:36  <Markslap> No.
23:58:37  <Markslap> :)
23:58:44  <Markslap> I just don't like to do dishes.
23:58:44  <glevans2> ever had to?
23:58:48  <supermop> hi planetmaker
23:58:54  <Markslap> Nope, always pay for myself.
23:59:34  <glevans2> over-drank my wallet once...quit drinking after that...

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