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00:17:03 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe86de00-46.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 00:20:36 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:22:19 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:23:05 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:13 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:40:13 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4A85.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 00:45:54 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:50:55 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:55:33 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-18-246.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:01:03 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B568.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:48 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF898B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:17:21 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED662EB.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:48 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.11.14.158] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 01:44:01 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 01:58:23 *** kamnet [4cb171cd@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 01:58:48 <kamnet> OpenMSX needs a logo 02:12:54 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:24:04 <kamnet> Hi roboboy 02:24:13 <roboboy> hello 02:25:49 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 02:28:51 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has joined #openttd 02:47:26 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-94-248.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:50:47 <Pikka> gentlemen 02:52:51 <Pikka> can anyone tell me what the current value of action 7 variable A1 D OpenTTD version is, both in the nightlies and betas and 1.0.5? 02:56:41 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:10:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: something like \dx10580000 for 1.0.5 and \dx1100XXXX (where XXXX is the current revision) for beta/nightly 03:10:43 <Pikka> something like that, yes Eddi 03:11:32 <Pikka> it doesn't seem to be doing what I want it to do, but I guess I'll keep trying 03:11:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:17:50 <Eddi|zuHause> for a diagnosis we need four pieces of information: what you try to achieve, what you do, what it does, and what you expect it to do 03:19:58 <Pikka> oh 03:20:23 <Pikka> further testing reveals it's working fine, don't mind me :) thankyou. 03:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> who the hell is this TiagoTiago guy who pops up out of nowhere and writes lengthy essays on old suggestion topics? 03:21:33 <Pikka> he's a 03:23:30 <Eddi|zuHause> the bad thing is the first two lines of each of his posts sound so absurd that i can't possibly imagine anything coming out of reading all this stuff... 03:23:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i need to hold back to not just reply with a "tldr" :p 03:27:00 <Pikka> "new reply notification emails don't always get to my inbox, please let me know if you think it has happened" 03:27:25 <Pikka> a) how would we know and b) why would we care if he didn't get a reply notification? 03:27:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember seeing this signature before 03:27:55 <Pikka> hm 03:29:02 <Eddi|zuHause> but i haven't bothered looking up his old posts 03:30:14 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has joined #openttd 03:33:34 <Pikka> oops 03:34:02 <Pikka> latest nightly crashes on my savegame. :] but I've buggered around with the newgrfs so much it's probably not worth reporting. 03:34:43 <Pikka> Assertion failed at line 222 of c:\openttd\compile\src\ground_vehicle.hpp: this->z_pos == GetSlopeZ(this->x_pos, this->y_pos) 03:36:19 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like a cache-sanity-check fails 03:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause> there's been some messing around with bridges and bridge heads recently, maybe this is related? 03:36:54 <Pikka> hmm 03:37:01 <Pikka> perhaps I should report it then 03:37:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it can't hurt to post the savegame to the bugtracker, though... 03:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: two reasons to report anyway: a) asserts should never be reached. if the savegame is screwed up beyond repair, it should be caught with an actual error. b) the red warning message is (imho) actually there to scare the people. crashes should still be avoided 03:41:50 <Pikka> rgr 03:47:12 *** JOHN-SHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-40-132.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:24:43 *** Pulec|XNB [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 04:34:36 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:54:41 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c5f4:1b2d:c207:eec4] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:00:57 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:13:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B778F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:14:30 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B778F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:22:48 *** Guest1798 [~matrix@coming.soon.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:09 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@coming.soon.it] has joined #openttd 05:23:39 *** z-MaTRiX is now known as Guest2009 05:24:35 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:38:30 *** Guest2009 [~matrix@coming.soon.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:38:38 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:40:52 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:42:16 *** z-MaTRiX_ [~matrix@2001:470:9df4:dead::24] has joined #openttd 05:46:14 *** Markavian [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B778F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73E0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:00:05 *** z-MaTRiX1 [~matrix@coming.soon.it] has joined #openttd 06:01:19 *** z-MaTRiX_ [~matrix@2001:470:9df4:dead::24] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:01:26 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:13:19 *** z-MaTRiX1 [~matrix@coming.soon.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:13:42 *** z-MaTRiX_ [~matrix@coming.soon.it] has joined #openttd 06:51:11 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.182.119] has joined #openttd 07:10:28 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.182.119] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:12:47 *** George is now known as Guest2013 07:12:47 *** Guest2013 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12:51 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 07:14:02 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-94-248.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:17:45 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.182.119] has joined #openttd 07:21:19 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:23:07 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.182.119] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:36:17 <z-MaTRiX_> hey 07:40:40 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.182.119] has joined #openttd 07:45:23 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.182.119] has quit [] 07:53:43 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.182.119] has joined #openttd 07:56:21 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe86de00-46.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:59:05 <andythenorth> morening 08:00:01 <kamnet> Good morning 08:06:53 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 08:22:23 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 08:26:24 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 08:32:32 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 08:34:50 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 08:35:04 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 08:39:54 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:11:40 <andythenorth> is including vehicle ferries in FISH misleading? 09:11:53 <andythenorth> will players think that RVs can actually drive on them? 09:12:24 <kamnet> Have they sofar? 09:14:22 <andythenorth> dunno 09:14:25 <andythenorth> no reports :) 09:30:47 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:30:50 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:34:39 *** LordAro [~charlespi@host86-167-85-11.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:34:48 <LordAro> moin 09:34:50 *** JOHN-SHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-40-132.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:35:02 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A4D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:37:50 <Alberth> moin 09:40:13 <andythenorth> hi Alberth 09:43:36 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC55C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:44:58 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:50:07 <planetmaker> moin 09:53:14 <Terkhen> good morning 09:53:30 <andythenorth> mornings 09:54:16 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 09:55:20 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:55:58 <kamnet> Meh, it's morning anyhow. 09:58:30 <LordAro> i lol'd: http://xkcd.com/416/ 10:01:35 <planetmaker> :-D 10:12:36 <kamnet> *snickers* 10:15:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.176.102] has joined #openttd 10:22:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.167.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:34:45 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:35:16 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0080c1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:46:26 *** JOHN-SHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-40-132.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:02 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has joined #openttd 11:04:10 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host183-236-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:04:15 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8025.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:04:53 <Wolf01> hello 11:10:52 *** Maluf [~Maluf@188-195-213-32-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 11:11:16 <Alberth> moin 11:11:19 <Maluf> hi 11:11:45 <planetmaker> ho 11:12:01 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:13:25 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.182.119] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 11:16:58 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:19:44 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.182.119] has joined #openttd 11:23:54 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 11:34:38 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFD940.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:36:16 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:39:37 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 11:44:55 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.6.141] has joined #openttd 11:47:02 <Terkhen> http://www.rigsofrods.com/wiki/pages/Transport_Sim_Fraud 11:49:15 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.11.14.158] has joined #openttd 11:51:23 <__ln__> eh 11:54:23 <__ln__> i read the text yet i don't see anything conclusive that would make it a 'fraud'. 11:54:58 <Terkhen> shouldn't it credit the original authors? 11:55:20 <__ln__> should 11:55:44 <Terkhen> that still does not make it a fraud, though 11:56:05 <__ln__> but if the CD indeed contains "an unmodified ... setup" as they say below the last image, and License.txt and Read me.txtis there, ... 11:56:45 <frosch123> the article also says, that it does not violate the license in most cases. it is just making money of fools :) 11:57:10 <frosch123> but they get a colourful box for the cd 11:57:17 <__ln__> it looks a lot like the author did not understand the GPL. 11:57:50 <Terkhen> buying a game and then learning that you could have gotten it for free after checking the readme included in the CD is not very helpful :P 11:58:02 <__ln__> selling Free software is not a fraud, many companies such as Red Hat and Canonical base their business on it. 11:59:33 <Alberth> it is imho, if you don't tell your customers before they buy 11:59:33 <Terkhen> but not telling what you are really selling is dishonest 12:00:02 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFD940.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:00:46 <Ammler> maybe we should try to sell a OpenTTD CD with 1.1 release 12:01:57 <__ln__> Alberth: it's an interesting point whether the license requires you to tell people in advance it's free software. as far as i know there is no such requirement. 12:02:20 <fjb> Moin 12:02:20 <Terkhen> the license allows to change the product name? 12:02:23 <Terkhen> hi fjb 12:02:53 <Alberth> __ln__: try it, buy a copy, then sue them :) 12:03:56 <Ammler> Terkhen: i would say, it does, but it is clearly a "hint", it wants to hide the origin 12:04:07 <__ln__> Terkhen: it may even be necessary to change the name because the original could be a registered trademark. (not maybe in this case, but generally) 12:05:03 <Terkhen> I still think that announcing that the product is GPL in the CD instead of in the box is not right 12:05:32 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 12:06:21 <Ammler> he, transport-sim.eu ridirects to ror 12:06:44 <frosch123> that's what is said on that page 12:07:15 <__ln__> Terkhen: i see the moral dilemma, but still it's far from a fraud imho. 12:07:43 <Terkhen> let's call it a dishonest rip-off :) 12:08:34 <Ammler> frosch123: that is clearly no fraud, the eu registrar did a mistake :-o 12:10:16 <frosch123> ? 12:10:42 <frosch123> Ammler: the article said, that ror registered that url after they learned of transport sim 12:11:04 <frosch123> so, ror steals the product name and advertising effort from transport sim :p 12:11:17 <Ammler> so they printed a unregistered domain on the coper? 12:11:26 <Ammler> cover* 12:11:28 * andythenorth decides not to get into ror 12:12:06 <Ammler> oh well, that is just dumb 12:12:37 <frosch123> yeah, quiet weird :) 12:13:43 <Terkhen> heh, that's dumb, yes 12:15:11 <Ammler> andythenorth: we need a nice OpenTTD cd cover to sell the game :-) 12:15:34 <frosch123> wouldn't some ror screenshots fit? 12:15:39 <Ammler> lol 12:15:42 <Terkhen> :D 12:16:05 <Terkhen> probably the "Open" part of the name would give away that you could get it for free :P 12:16:08 <Ammler> maybe the russian openttd3d could work 12:16:53 <Ammler> Terkhen: well, we could make it seriously just to check if people would still buy it 12:18:48 <andythenorth> yeah they'd buy it 12:18:57 <Terkhen> probably, yes 12:18:58 <andythenorth> the major issue is where the money would go 12:19:05 <Terkhen> but I wonder if it would be worth the effort to set that up 12:19:11 <andythenorth> I reckon it would see 0s per year 12:19:16 <andythenorth> not $thousands 12:19:20 <andythenorth> less costs 12:19:33 <andythenorth> it's just enough revenue to be awkward :P 12:20:31 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 12:20:56 <Alberth> with isometric 2.5D graphics? nah 12:23:27 <Ammler> andythenorth: depnds on the prize, if you sell if for 20⬠you can't forward much to openttd 12:24:05 <andythenorth> but someone still has to do the work :P 12:24:16 <andythenorth> lets do something else :D 12:24:54 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-6-188.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:24:59 <Ammler> well, you need one "burner" per country :-P 12:25:36 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:25:39 <frosch123> preferable aged < 12 12:27:13 <Ammler> he needs a cd printer 12:27:25 <__ln__> illegally in the country, without a passport 12:28:43 <Ammler> I once bought OpenOffice that way 12:31:08 <Eddi|zuHause> making money off openttd is kind of a risky business 12:44:45 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: indeed 12:47:16 <__ln__> it could be sold from some poor third-world country which is not a member of EU or anything... say Switzerland 12:48:00 <Alberth> preferably a country without internet, say Egypt 12:49:02 <Terkhen> :D 12:49:36 <Terkhen> how would you advertize it then? 12:49:57 <__ln__> hieroglyphs 12:50:02 <lugo> telefax 12:55:16 <Terkhen> :) 12:55:36 <Terkhen> let's hope they get internet (and other things) back soon 12:56:23 <__ln__> yes, now they are limited to single player or local servers. 12:56:34 <planetmaker> [13:18] <andythenorth> the major issue is where the money would go <-- I could sell them and thus finance the DevZone :-) 12:58:00 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:42 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 13:04:47 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:11 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 13:06:18 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 13:13:18 * andythenorth ponders 13:13:20 <andythenorth> what to do 13:13:54 *** Brianett1 [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:15:07 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:15:26 <Alberth> play a game 13:17:53 <andythenorth> meh 13:18:18 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:448f:7122:16f4:df22] has joined #openttd 13:18:21 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:20:15 <Terkhen> why not? :) 13:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause> 'meh' is pretty much describing my mood today 13:22:40 <Terkhen> mine too :D 13:22:51 * Terkhen is not doing anything 13:23:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i need a new set of music... the old one gets boring 13:24:02 <__ln__> here, http://www.play.com/Music/CD/4-/155471/Spaced-Out/Product.html 13:24:28 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 13:26:39 * frosch123 wrote two lines of code in past 5 hours :p 13:26:47 <SmatZ> :) 13:26:51 * andythenorth made up some names 13:26:59 <andythenorth> Terkhen: rv-wagons!!!! 13:27:06 <andythenorth> I need something to collaborate on :P 13:27:11 <andythenorth> I am mostly drumming my fingers 13:27:24 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I'm running some profiling test on the code I'm currently unifying 13:27:34 <andythenorth> Terkhen: did you code a newgrf yet to understand the spec? 13:28:37 <Terkhen> no :P 13:29:30 <andythenorth> do you need help? 13:29:40 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0f59.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:29:53 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:30:53 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has joined #openttd 13:31:28 <Terkhen> once I finish this code I'll try to code a small articulated vehicle and fiddle a bit with the "can be attached" callback 13:31:50 <andythenorth> ok 13:32:38 <devilsadvocate> fwiw, i would buy an openttd cd if there was one. 13:33:09 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:44 <andythenorth> I could add more greeble to FISH :P 13:36:48 <andythenorth> or do something on FIRS 13:36:50 *** thomas001 [~thomas@p5B0F7056.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:36:51 <andythenorth> anyone playing FIRS? 13:37:04 <thomas001> hi, can you reconnemd a nice AI? or do you like playing without any AI? 13:37:12 * andythenorth finds it hard to prioritise for FIRS without player feedback :D 13:37:41 <Terkhen> lately I have been too lazy for playing with FIRS :( 13:37:51 <V453000> andythenorth: what exactly do you need?: ) 13:38:22 <andythenorth> dunno 13:38:24 <andythenorth> :D 13:38:33 <andythenorth> "input" 13:38:33 <V453000> making chains more equal is number one for nice gameplay imo :) 13:38:43 <andythenorth> the ticket you opened? 13:38:47 <V453000> yes 13:39:09 <andythenorth> ok I'll look at that 13:39:10 <V453000> I dont think it needs to be like ... mathematically presicely balanced, but just "about-ish" :) 13:39:18 <V453000> the coal chains are way too strong :) 13:39:36 <V453000> on the other hand, I would make some sort of thingy that would make farms stronger 13:39:54 <andythenorth> town growth needing food :P 13:39:56 <V453000> be it more profit for farm supplies, or just something similar 13:40:05 <andythenorth> food could be a high value cargo? 13:40:08 <V453000> nobody really cares about towns in FIRS 13:40:20 <V453000> as good as goods would be ok I think :) 13:41:50 <andythenorth> I could reduce amount of coal produced at mines 13:42:13 <andythenorth> ENSP goes from 'scarce' to 'abundant' rather quickly once the chain is setup 13:43:00 <andythenorth> and the wood chain is too weak generally 13:43:02 <planetmaker> nah... mines are quite nice as they are IMHO 13:43:10 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1981 13:44:22 <planetmaker> but maybe don't reduce their output (that's boring), but the price of coal delivery, if that needs balancing 13:44:35 <planetmaker> only transporting 2t of coal is boring in transport games 13:44:41 <planetmaker> I want a whole train of it :-) 13:44:47 <planetmaker> and not wait 1 year for it to load 13:44:54 <andythenorth> coal is very high value in FIRS for some reason 13:45:31 <fonsinchen> Rubidium: I don't really get what it does, yet, but your patch for FS#4440 is considerably smaller than mine. 13:45:33 <andythenorth> whereas iron ore is same as wood 13:45:46 <andythenorth> V453000: I'll reduce payment for coal 13:45:50 <planetmaker> well. reduce coal profits then ;-) 13:45:57 <V453000> both at least 13:46:00 <V453000> production and payment 13:46:07 <planetmaker> production, too? Na... 13:46:12 <planetmaker> I want to transport stuff 13:46:21 <V453000> even if the coal is equal to all other primaries, it still has the best chain 13:46:37 <V453000> 135 production where everything else has 80-90 is imo quite bad 13:46:39 <andythenorth> I think coal production is too high. It starts around 135t 13:46:45 <andythenorth> forest is 96t 13:46:51 <planetmaker> V453000: not with appropriate prices 13:47:04 <andythenorth> I think about 108t is better 13:47:07 <planetmaker> coal is also needed in many places 13:47:16 <V453000> yes, that is why it is so useful 13:47:20 <planetmaker> thus it has to be more abundant than, say, ore 13:47:33 <V453000> therefore it should be penalized on profits 13:47:34 <planetmaker> V453000: yes, but it destroys the balance overall, if you cannot meet demand 13:47:43 <V453000> ? 13:47:47 <planetmaker> profits may be low; but production should not drop 13:48:02 <V453000> I see ... let more coal mines spawn instead? 13:48:12 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:48:19 <planetmaker> and have all trains wait eternally to load? Na... 13:48:27 <planetmaker> coal mines IMHO may be productive. Why not? 13:48:35 <planetmaker> Just make it cheap bulk cargo 13:48:55 <V453000> then it needs to be cheaper than for example ore or wood :) 13:49:01 <planetmaker> yes. 13:49:05 <planetmaker> of course 13:49:06 <andythenorth> I have another answer to this 13:49:15 <andythenorth> currently industries don't randomise on map gen 13:49:24 <andythenorth> (starting cargo production) 13:49:38 <V453000> they will? 13:49:50 <planetmaker> andythenorth: randomization is no answer to this 13:49:57 <planetmaker> it just dilutes the problem 13:50:08 <V453000> anyway, I have to go for lunch, laters :) 13:50:13 <andythenorth> assume that I'll change the rates 13:50:15 <planetmaker> once balanced, then randomization will be nice 13:50:23 <fonsinchen> However, it changes saveload code ... 13:50:47 <andythenorth> planetmaker: randomisation will add...interest....to the problem 13:51:01 <planetmaker> andythenorth: how? 13:51:15 <planetmaker> it makes finding out the "correct" balance just so much more difficult 13:51:29 <planetmaker> it's the cream on top. But not good, if the coffee itself is bad 13:51:45 <andythenorth> well yes 13:52:13 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0f59.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:18 <andythenorth> but it also means there's no predictable 'best' chain 13:52:42 <andythenorth> 'best' depends on randomised production + how close together industries are 13:52:53 <planetmaker> of course. But that's only true, if they're somewhat equal in the first place. Otherwise it's still true 13:53:18 <andythenorth> currently the coal -> ensp chain is too dominant 13:53:22 <planetmaker> If wtih 80% probability coal is best - oh well. Doesn't matter to care about 20% games ;-) 14:05:20 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0f59.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:11:57 * andythenorth wonders why FIRS default PAX rate is so low :o 14:14:24 <andythenorth> RL coal price per t is about same as oil price per barrel 14:14:30 <andythenorth> but 1 barrel != 1t :D 14:14:40 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: in line count yours is smaller. Mine "keeps" the service order as the current order over loading at stations by exploiting some stuff 14:15:12 <Rubidium> but it skips the order as cur_order_index 14:16:12 <fonsinchen> Mine asserts that auto-orders are created after the service order and also fixes the cur_order_index to make things work. 14:16:51 <fonsinchen> But I'm not sure it really works. There might be a problem with multiple service orders in a row. 14:17:29 <Rubidium> multiple service orders in a row are bogus in any case 14:17:57 <Rubidium> if the first doesn't trigger, then the rest doesn't trigger due to evaluating the next order 14:18:15 <Rubidium> if the first does trigger, then the rest doesn't trigger due to it having gone to a depot very recently 14:18:34 <Rubidium> but yes, that corner case has to be tested (somewhat) 14:18:49 <Rubidium> likewise what happens when the service order is the last/first in the list 14:22:37 * andythenorth ponders 14:22:54 <andythenorth> I need a way for a vehicle to reduce the late delivery penalty :P 14:23:02 <andythenorth> fish should be a high-speed cargo 14:23:07 <andythenorth> but boats aren't 14:23:07 <frosch123> the problem with both of your patches is, that it breaks everything which assumes that the current order is after cur_order_index 14:23:19 <andythenorth> boats have ice :P 14:23:30 <fonsinchen> I'll have a look at that later. First I have to get myself into a living state and then do some work for my day job. 14:23:40 <andythenorth> frosch123: ^ any bright ideas? 14:23:47 <frosch123> currently i try what happens if there are two cur_order_index, one for the current automatic order, one for the current real order 14:24:31 <frosch123> andythenorth: check the payment callback whether it tells something about speed and or vehicle type 14:25:24 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks#Custom_profit_calculation_for_cargoes_39_ 14:25:32 <andythenorth> seems to have a limited range of vars 14:25:53 *** noteda [~anlego@174.122.29.85] has joined #openttd 14:25:55 <noteda> http://youtube.com/watch?v=cK5yl9t_vfc iwillrockyou 14:25:55 *** noteda [~anlego@174.122.29.85] has left #openttd [] 14:26:06 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Cargos 14:26:15 <andythenorth> "Currently, cargos don't have 40+x, 60+x, or 80+x variables, but they might be added later." 14:26:46 <Alberth> 6 fishing grounds, and no harbour :p 14:26:52 <andythenorth> What would type 82 check be for a cargo? 14:26:59 <andythenorth> the station, or the transporting vehicle? 14:28:27 <frosch123> or the industry/town ? :p 14:28:31 <andythenorth> hmm 14:28:53 <andythenorth> custom profit would enable various interesting gameplay effects 14:29:04 <andythenorth> reduced penalty for refrigerated cargos 14:29:18 <andythenorth> enhanced passenger rate for e.g. restaurant car in train 14:29:22 *** mode/#openttd [+b noteda!*@*] by SmatZ 14:29:48 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: you think that helps? 14:29:54 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: not really 14:30:01 <andythenorth> improved payment for an 'improved' station :P 14:30:16 <Rubidium> s/not \(.*\)/ not/ 14:30:26 * andythenorth admits to playing a lot of railroad tycoon 14:30:29 <SmatZ> ok :) 14:30:37 <Terkhen> traitor! 14:30:52 <Rubidium> SmatZ: but heh, if it makes you feel better... why not. It doesn't hurt us much 14:31:00 <SmatZ> Rubidium: indeed :-) 14:32:50 <andythenorth> so I would need some kind of new vehicle property 14:33:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: different pricing for local and long distance passengers 14:33:11 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that's already possible with the cb 14:34:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i mean whether a passenger travelled in a long distance car. not what distance he travelled 14:34:16 <andythenorth> ok 14:34:37 <andythenorth> some kind of label system for vehicles 14:34:48 <andythenorth> I believe I've thought of that before :P 14:34:56 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:36:13 <Eddi|zuHause> basically: local passenger: low income, but low sensitivity to time. long distance passenger: higher income, but high sensitivity to time. long distance passenger with dining car: higher income, medium sensitivity to time [dining car has high maintenance, so only useful in longer trains] 14:37:20 <andythenorth> I thought labels would also be a good way to indicate compatibility between vehicles 14:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the whole mixing between vehicle sets thing is bogus... 14:38:07 <andythenorth> should coal be more or less money-earning than PAX in default FIRS? 14:38:19 <andythenorth> currently way more.... seems wrong 14:39:33 <Eddi|zuHause> in the beginning of the prussian state railway (around 1880-ish), the government had decided to reduce the transport price for coal, to encourage the factories to buy the local coal, instead of import coal from england 14:40:40 <Eddi|zuHause> (where "local" means silesia and the rhine province) 14:43:28 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 14:44:54 * andythenorth rebalances FIRS rates 14:45:06 <andythenorth> bulk cargos: low rate, barely any payment penalty 14:45:18 <andythenorth> town cargos, very high rates, steep payment penalty 14:45:38 <andythenorth> farm cargos: increased rates so farms are more interesting to play with 14:45:46 <andythenorth> intermediate cargos: mixed 14:46:04 <andythenorth> and PAX way increased 14:53:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess low price rate can explain the problems i'm having ;) 14:55:08 <andythenorth> I can't decide what to do for 'Dredging Site' 14:55:25 <andythenorth> either show a crane on a barge / platform 14:55:38 <andythenorth> or do it like the Fishing Grounds - some bouys 14:55:45 <andythenorth> and include dredgers in FISH 14:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm leaning towards barge/platform 15:01:19 <andythenorth> I'm leaning towards both (random), or user configurable, or detect sets known to contain dredgers and change accordingly 15:09:50 * andythenorth ponders 15:09:56 <andythenorth> dredging site ~= quarry 15:10:15 <andythenorth> but combining one industry with onshore and offshore variants is a brainshaft 15:14:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't suppose you can retroactively change payment rates in a running game... 15:15:12 <Alberth> andythenorth: Fertilizer plant does 8t production per 8t delivered, except it accepts liters, and produces crates 15:17:02 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you sort of can 15:17:10 <andythenorth> it's not supposed to work, but does seem to 15:17:13 <andythenorth> I wouldn't trust it 15:17:22 <andythenorth> Alberth: that raises the 'crates' issue again 15:17:24 <andythenorth> :D 15:17:31 <andythenorth> among other things :P 15:18:10 <Alberth> oh, the less generic description thingie 15:18:23 <Eddi|zuHause> non-water liquids (like oil) tend to have lower density than water 15:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so 1000l < 1t 15:19:27 <andythenorth> the spec allows for that 15:19:42 <andythenorth> I will happily put in whatever units other people provide in tickets :D 15:19:52 <andythenorth> it's one of those things I don't care about ;) 15:23:32 <Alberth> interestingly, the monthly crate delivery count to the forest is accurate :) 15:24:07 <andythenorth> yes 15:24:13 <andythenorth> that was slightly puzzling 15:24:20 <andythenorth> but the forest probably has no unhandled cbs 15:26:33 *** noteda1 [~anlego1@174.122.29.93] has joined #openttd 15:26:35 <noteda1> http://youtube.com/watch?v=cK5yl9t_vfc iwillrockyou 15:26:35 *** noteda1 [~anlego1@174.122.29.93] has left #openttd [] 15:26:48 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 15:27:13 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.11.14.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:48 *** mode/#openttd [-b noteda!*@*] by SmatZ 15:27:51 *** mode/#openttd [+b noteda*!*@*] by SmatZ 15:28:02 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.11.14.158] has joined #openttd 15:28:11 <frosch123> smatz is too fast for me :) 15:28:19 <SmatZ> :-) 15:28:54 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:36:13 <Wolf01> what about a ctrl+click->select number of days to delay the start of vehicles from a depot? 15:37:11 *** DanMacK [~cebf4595@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 15:38:06 <DanMacK> Hey all 15:39:29 <Wolf01> hoy 15:48:01 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:51:36 <andythenorth> frosch123: how feasible is something akin to action 14, but for vehicles? 15:51:56 <andythenorth> purpose would be to allow newgrf author to put additional static properties on vehicles 15:52:11 <frosch123> what meaning? 15:52:12 <andythenorth> and possibly let player make certain choices of static property (e.g. livery, capacity etc) 15:52:21 <planetmaker> eh? 15:52:36 <planetmaker> those are certainly not static properties 15:52:58 <andythenorth> hmm 15:53:05 <andythenorth> terminology is always a bit...fluid in my head 15:53:07 <andythenorth> :) 15:55:55 <andythenorth> it could be a solution to multiple issues: 15:56:07 <andythenorth> using cargo subtype is a bonkers way to do capacity refits 15:56:19 <andythenorth> using cargo subtype is a bonkers way to do livery refit 15:57:08 <andythenorth> any sane compatibility check between vehicles when using cb 1D / 15E requires a grf to know about all other vehicles in all other sets 15:57:10 <andythenorth> which is insane 15:57:46 <andythenorth> using cargo subtype for regearing is bonkers 15:58:50 <andythenorth> basically grf authors are using subtype as a chunk of vehicle-local-storage... 15:58:59 <andythenorth> ..., which happens to be connected to the GUI so they can provide arbitrary strings 15:59:54 <andythenorth> what would be a better way? 16:01:31 <Eddi|zuHause> the better way would be exactly to turn cargo subtype into a vehicle-local storage independent from actual cargo 16:02:04 <andythenorth> and in a way with GUI menu(s) for player? 16:04:12 <Eddi|zuHause> what's wrong with the split refit gui? 16:04:39 <andythenorth> maybe nothing 16:05:10 <andythenorth> depends how many choices you get and whether they're mutually exclusive or can be combined 16:08:29 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 16:13:31 <Eddi|zuHause> so you need a way to construct a custom dialog ;) 16:20:59 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8025.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:24:45 <Hirundo> Trains have 'user defined data' already, but without access to the GUI that's pretty useless 16:26:21 <andythenorth> which is where something akin to action 14 comes into play... 16:26:42 <andythenorth> all it can do is set the values of certain stored properties on the vehicle 16:26:59 <andythenorth> newgrf author has to handle what to do with those in nfo 16:48:35 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50:59 <Eddi|zuHause> problem with that: if you fit that into the refit gui, you must make test-runs with several callbacks, to update the capacity and possibly visual representation. those test-runs may not alter the persistent storage 16:52:15 <andythenorth> so handling failed cbs would present a problem? 16:52:40 <andythenorth> I think I see the issue 16:53:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's the same thing as running commands without DC_EXEC 16:54:42 <andythenorth> hang on 16:54:58 <andythenorth> where did persistent storage arrive in this question? :) 16:55:03 <__ln__> Who is running OTTD in fullscreen on Windows? 16:55:15 <andythenorth> persistent storage isn't what I'm thinking of 16:55:33 <andythenorth> although it might come to the same thing when all said and done 16:55:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you said each gui-element has one or more persistant storage bits assigned to it 16:56:10 <Eddi|zuHause> like action 14 and parameter bitstuffing 16:56:20 <andythenorth> effectively yes 16:56:35 <andythenorth> if nfo can modify the parameters, I see the issue 16:57:03 <andythenorth> but we established before that parameters that can be modified from nfo are a no-no 16:57:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, varaction2 may change persistant storage... 16:57:46 <andythenorth> but not global grf parameters... 16:57:46 <Eddi|zuHause> this is different from parameters 16:57:56 <andythenorth> but it can't be like persistent storage :) 16:58:34 <andythenorth> there is that nasty issue where a consist checks storage on another vehicle which refers back to first vehicle in some horrible loop 16:58:56 <Eddi|zuHause> so you want to make it read-only if action 14-style refit gui is present? 16:59:10 <andythenorth> I can't see any other route that is viable 17:00:09 <kamnet> Looks like Planetmaker has his hands full today ;-) 17:00:16 <planetmaker> meh 17:00:35 <Eddi|zuHause> you might have weird feedback effects, but not really a loop in the sense of repeaded calculation 17:00:36 <planetmaker> I should just not read the forum today anymore. I'm sufficiently annoyed already at all this ignorance 17:01:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the callback can only be run at defined locations in the code 17:07:05 * fonsinchen hates javascript vigorously. 17:07:28 <fonsinchen> Why couldn't they invent a language for the web that's actually a language. 17:07:42 <Terkhen> ^ 17:09:04 <Eddi|zuHause> misguided design goals like "targetting simple people without computer science background". has also brought us glorious moments in history like COBOL 17:11:26 <fonsinchen> fortunately COBOL is mostly dead, though. 17:15:39 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you get hired to maintain 50 year old banking software :p 17:19:22 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db18759.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:22:03 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21921 /trunk/src/ (ground_vehicle.hpp vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: Move GroundVehicleSubtypeFlags as they will be needed by some Vehicle functions. 17:23:07 *** Chillosophy [Chillosoph@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 17:26:47 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21922 /trunk/src/ (ground_vehicle.hpp vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: Unify articulated vehicle checking functions. 17:27:51 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21923 /trunk/src/ (train.h vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: Unify articulated vehicle iteration functions. 17:29:11 <andythenorth> Alberth: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2219 17:29:22 <andythenorth> ^ also applies to Machine Shop and other industries 17:29:23 <andythenorth> :( 17:30:27 *** fjb is now known as Guest2055 17:30:29 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFDEBB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:30:37 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21924 /trunk/src/ (9 files): 17:30:37 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Unify some parts of the articulated vehicle code. 17:30:37 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: -Cleanup: Avoid conversions to Train and RoadVehicle that are no longer required. 17:30:53 <Terkhen> ^ another bit of code unified :) 17:32:04 <andythenorth> :) 17:32:22 * planetmaker applauds Terkhen :-) 17:32:50 <Terkhen> besides a few bits of code remaining, now Train and RoadVehicle use the same code for articulated vehicles 17:33:14 <planetmaker> :-) 17:33:23 <Terkhen> once I finish with the remaining articulated vehicle changes I'll give depot_gui another look to see what else we need to unify before starting with wagons 17:33:42 <planetmaker> Next then: articulated vehicles with arbitrary ID? 17:34:22 <andythenorth> Terkhen: I had a go at the depot code 17:34:24 <andythenorth> and broke stuff :P 17:34:37 <andythenorth> it looked like quite a lot of changes needed 17:34:40 <andythenorth> but most looked to me simple 17:34:53 <Terkhen> planetmaker: since I have no clue of what you are suggesting, I suppose it is related to the NewGRF specs 17:35:03 <Terkhen> I should try to code an articulated vehicle to understand that part 17:35:15 <planetmaker> Terkhen: yes, it is :-) 17:35:32 <planetmaker> the articulated parts can - afaik - have only an ID between 64 and 128(?) 17:35:37 <planetmaker> or something. I never coded one 17:35:41 <andythenorth> I think that changed 17:35:46 <planetmaker> it did? 17:35:53 <andythenorth> I'd have to read commits 17:35:56 <andythenorth> or ask someone who knows :P 17:36:05 <Terkhen> hmm... why is that? some weird arbitrary limitation? 17:36:17 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*@174.122.112.*] by planetmaker 17:36:33 <andythenorth> ID had to be less than <128 17:36:42 <andythenorth> there's probably a good bit-based reason somewhere 17:36:54 <Terkhen> oh, missing bits in callbacks or something like that 17:37:14 *** Guest2055 [~frank@p5DDFD940.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:37:18 <planetmaker> Terkhen: it's newgrf specs... limitations are always there for obscure historical reasons ;-) 17:39:21 <Terkhen> yes, these limitations always make me remember those famous computing quotes about "x will be enough for everybody" 17:40:13 <planetmaker> tehehe - me, too 17:40:30 <planetmaker> like ipv4 ;-) 17:40:39 <planetmaker> or as they now tell for ipv6 ;-) 17:41:09 *** nicfer [~Administr@190.50.54.187] has joined #openttd 17:41:10 <planetmaker> I wonder how many years that will last. 17:41:11 <__ln__> #elsewhere someone was remembering that in the original Civilization pyramids allowed a revolution without a period of anarchy 17:41:29 <Terkhen> 640K of ram, 5 computers for the united states, etc 17:41:45 <planetmaker> oh... a windows administrator account using IRC 17:41:55 <planetmaker> hehe, yeah. 17:42:04 <planetmaker> world market: 5 computers / year 17:42:08 <Terkhen> :D 17:42:47 <Alberth> andythenorth: thanks 17:43:30 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I need to specify sugar refinery industry window text depending on climate 17:43:34 <andythenorth> how do I do that? 17:43:47 <planetmaker> define 4 strings. 17:44:01 <planetmaker> set the stringID into a parameter, depending upon climate 17:44:10 <andythenorth> ok 17:44:11 <planetmaker> write that stringID via action6 into the action4 17:44:28 <nicfer> remember the suggestions about trains requiring fuel to run? 17:44:32 <planetmaker> ehm... not action4, but whereever the string is used in the industry definition 17:44:47 <planetmaker> or you just do it simpler, andythenorth : 17:45:04 <planetmaker> is it an action0 string? 17:45:06 <andythenorth> I thought calling it 'Sugar' might be sufficient, but not 17:45:21 <andythenorth> no it's an industry window text - D0 probably 17:45:33 <Mazur> _In_ I have that one lying around. 17:45:33 <nicfer> well, that would've a good idea for a challenge mode 17:45:40 <planetmaker> well... but where / how are they given? 17:46:09 <andythenorth> lang/7F_any.pnfo is where the text is 17:46:21 <planetmaker> :-) I meant rather conceptually 17:46:22 <Mazur> pm: Wasm't it "5 computers(/year) by the year 2000"? 17:46:30 <planetmaker> which action brings it into the game? 17:46:39 <andythenorth> sugar refinery industry window text, it's cb 17:46:51 <andythenorth> I could branch on climate in varaction 2 17:47:07 <andythenorth> but that's a bad idea 17:47:30 <planetmaker> ah, callback. 17:47:32 <andythenorth> be better to change text contents depending on climate 17:47:43 <planetmaker> yes, then climate-branching might be easiest. 17:48:52 <nicfer> players start with a limited stock of fuel to run some oil routes in order to prospere 17:50:09 * andythenorth puzzled 17:50:47 <planetmaker> hm? 17:50:58 *** kamnet [4cb171cd@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 17:51:33 <andythenorth> I don't want to use the cb 17:51:39 <andythenorth> that means branching the template 17:52:44 <planetmaker> can you give me the template filename and the industry filename? 17:53:59 <andythenorth> sugarrefinery.pnfo 17:54:59 <andythenorth> you've solved this for the sugar cane cargo label - in nfo_lang.pnfo 17:55:55 <planetmaker> I did? 17:56:29 <andythenorth> yes 17:56:31 <planetmaker> hm... :-) 17:56:33 <andythenorth> I think I see how to do it 17:56:41 <andythenorth> but not sure how to avoid breakages 17:56:57 <andythenorth> action 7 decides the contents of the string 17:56:59 <planetmaker> yeah, seems like an easy solution, too :-) 18:11:11 *** nicfer [~Administr@190.50.54.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:15:28 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 18:27:45 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 18:36:31 *** FauxFaux_ [~faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:41:13 *** DanMacK [~cebf4595@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 18:48:09 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:19 *** test [~opera@p54958586.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:52:22 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.182.119] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:52:38 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 19:09:44 *** PhoenixII [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:47 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 19:10:46 *** Maluf [~Maluf@188-195-213-32-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.] 19:11:19 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@199.18.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 19:11:45 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet] 19:13:34 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 19:33:00 *** DanMacK [~cebf4595@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:35:57 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.182.119] has joined #openttd 19:48:37 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=927440#p927440 <-- so... everyone is asked to download that savegame and suggest a better station ;-) :-P 19:48:46 <planetmaker> quite a modest request, I think 20:00:12 <frosch123> upload the latest ps game, and tell him you extended the network a bit 20:03:10 <Wolf01> ahahah 20:09:02 <z-MaTRiX_> hey-ho 20:09:04 <z-MaTRiX_> hm 20:09:19 <z-MaTRiX_> was wondering about the new control traaaforming modifier 20:10:41 <z-MaTRiX_> whats up <; 20:13:56 <Eddi|zuHause> short version: you can't flatten the entire world in one go anymore 20:15:06 <Alberth> except in the scenario editor :p 20:18:14 <ABCRic> :( 20:18:27 <z-MaTRiX_> ;< 20:18:27 <z-MaTRiX_> <; 20:18:30 <z-MaTRiX_> btw 20:18:38 <z-MaTRiX_> this must be asked many times 20:18:52 <z-MaTRiX_> why does a maglev break down? 20:19:26 *** DanMacK [~cebf4595@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:19:30 <Alberth> it's made of parts that fail 20:19:32 <z-MaTRiX_> only cheap chinese maglevs available in game and superconductors overheat, computers freeze? :( 20:19:37 <planetmaker> why does a car break down? a train? a plane? 20:19:59 <Alberth> magnetism also fails every now and then 20:20:03 <planetmaker> you don't honestly think that any technology is safe of any failrue 20:20:07 <Eddi|zuHause> they parked a maintenance car on the track. 20:20:08 <z-MaTRiX_> i do 20:20:09 <z-MaTRiX_> :) 20:20:20 <Alberth> there is a setting for that :) 20:20:26 <z-MaTRiX_> sure 20:20:31 <planetmaker> high-temperature super-conductors start to fail above ~80K 20:20:37 <z-MaTRiX_> but that setting assumes everything is breakdown-free 20:20:58 <Eddi|zuHause> it's "cool" to live in a world where 80K is "high temperature" :p 20:21:04 <z-MaTRiX_> oc aeroplances can crash sometimes 20:21:08 <planetmaker> hehe 20:21:16 <z-MaTRiX_> *aeroplanes 20:21:25 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:21:54 <Alberth> I'd like to have some of the disasters, but not all. You have to pick the setting that gives you the least stress when playing. 20:22:50 <z-MaTRiX_> just annoying to see a high-tech maglev train breakdown :) 20:22:55 <andythenorth> new disasters :P 20:22:59 <andythenorth> disaster framework 20:23:10 * andythenorth wonders what would be a good disaster 20:23:15 <andythenorth> why do I turn disasters off? 20:23:15 <Alberth> andythenorth: yeah, I had such high hopes, but alas 20:23:23 <z-MaTRiX_> when ufo crashes into a city 20:23:24 <z-MaTRiX_> <; 20:23:28 <andythenorth> are disasters just rubbish? 20:23:39 <andythenorth> or is it the ensuing micro-management that's rubbish :P 20:23:45 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 20:24:10 <Alberth> for me it is an annoying ufo that repeatedly destroys the same spot 20:24:18 <z-MaTRiX_> hehe 20:24:21 <z-MaTRiX_> make it random then 20:24:35 <Alberth> it IS random, but not enough 20:24:35 <z-MaTRiX_> weighted on populated places 20:24:37 <andythenorth> floods - all trains run at 10% of normal speed 20:24:41 <andythenorth> better/ 20:24:42 <andythenorth> ? 20:27:06 <z-MaTRiX_> earthquakes 20:27:07 <z-MaTRiX_> <; 20:27:15 <z-MaTRiX_> land moves 20:27:42 <z-MaTRiX_> trains then go in a big hole of boiling lava 20:28:49 <Eddi|zuHause> <z-MaTRiX_> just annoying to see a high-tech maglev train breakdown :) <-- "realistically", the higher the tech, the more likely it breaks down. 20:29:11 <z-MaTRiX_> well 20:29:18 <Eddi|zuHause> just compare german technology with russian technology :p 20:29:18 <z-MaTRiX_> it levitattes above the track 20:29:28 <z-MaTRiX_> and basic magnetism causes that 20:29:36 <z-MaTRiX_> magnetism will fail? 20:29:38 <planetmaker> basic? 20:29:48 <z-MaTRiX_> yes, no special things 20:30:00 <planetmaker> it's lifted by linear drives. Which is a complicated piece of electricity 20:30:01 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX_: doesn't mean the electric current can't overheat some parts 20:30:03 <z-MaTRiX_> some coils get electric current 20:30:14 <planetmaker> never seen a burned-out coil? 20:30:20 <planetmaker> a bad contact? 20:30:20 <ABCRic> In real life, a magnet failing, a computer missing an instruction, or something as small as that would cause the train to derail 20:30:20 <z-MaTRiX_> and you think they designed the maglev to overheat sometimes? 20:30:21 <z-MaTRiX_> :) 20:30:25 <Eddi|zuHause> there's SOOOOO many things that can go wrong in a maglev... 20:30:31 <ABCRic> you should be happy it just stops :) 20:30:45 <z-MaTRiX_> sure if computer fails 20:30:52 <z-MaTRiX_> it can stop 20:31:06 <z-MaTRiX_> and if no power 20:31:06 <z-MaTRiX_> ;< 20:31:07 <planetmaker> power glitch causing temporary loss of lift, causing train to become... crashed 20:31:17 <z-MaTRiX_> actually 20:31:21 <z-MaTRiX_> it has wheels 20:31:24 <z-MaTRiX_> and will land on them 20:31:29 <z-MaTRiX_> its just not cool 20:31:48 <Eddi|zuHause> you can still throw away the wheels afterwards... 20:31:50 <planetmaker> why? The lift cannot fail after all >:-D 20:31:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that is maintenance which will delay the train 20:33:49 * Alberth still votes for failing magnetism in OpenTTD 20:33:52 <z-MaTRiX_> âProven" maglev systems are in commercial operation in Nagoya, Japan (March 2005) and Shanghai, China (March 2004) and both systems operate with a 99.97% on time â to the second â schedule reliability due to precise computer controlled operations 20:33:56 <z-MaTRiX_> :) 20:33:58 <z-MaTRiX_> maintenance included 20:34:09 <z-MaTRiX_> Maglev systems can operate on steeper grades in all-weather conditions with unchanged schedule reliability 20:34:10 *** heffer [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has joined #openttd 20:34:18 <z-MaTRiX_> High-Speed Maglev (HSM) systems are vastly superior to all traditional (regardless of speed) rail in acceleration, braking, safety, noise levels, all-weather operations, infrastructure longevity/sustainability, maintenance and now, construction costs and speed of construction 20:34:23 <Alberth> I am SO glad OpenTTD is not realistic :) 20:34:25 <z-MaTRiX_> Maglev has non-contact, frictionless operations which allows inherently super low maintenance and low life cycle costs, regardless of weather conditions 20:34:53 <z-MaTRiX_> Maglev systems are long electric motors â the vehicles and guideways (tracks) are interdependent and comprise the two basic elements of an electric motor with no need for bearings or grease 20:35:05 <ABCRic> Also, maglev will fail when the earth inverts its magnetic poles. 20:35:23 <z-MaTRiX_> no 20:35:34 <planetmaker> not quite 20:35:40 <z-MaTRiX_> the track generates magnetic field for levitation 20:35:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i seriously can't decide whether i should laugh at you or feel sad about you... 20:37:24 <ABCRic> maybe not, but it makes some really annoying noise. Or so I heard 20:37:48 <ABCRic> :P 20:38:10 <z-MaTRiX_> haha 20:38:31 <z-MaTRiX_> the wind causes annoying noise ? 20:42:50 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.11.14.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:38 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.11.14.158] has joined #openttd 20:48:10 <z-MaTRiX_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuSrLvCVoVk&feature=related 20:48:14 <z-MaTRiX_> heres the real thing 21:03:30 *** test [~opera@p54958586.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #openttd [] 21:07:38 *** FauxFaux [~faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 21:09:04 *** thomas001 [~thomas@p5B0F7056.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:16:22 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@199.18.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: The bad thing about quit messages is that you never know how people react to them.] 21:18:51 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:19:11 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0f59.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:34:02 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:36:00 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0f59.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:37:34 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: alberth * r21925 /trunk/src/ (roadveh_cmd.cpp train.h vehicle.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Doc: Doxygen additions and markup corrections to vehicle-related functions. 21:38:35 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:05:07 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@199.18.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 22:12:22 *** Brianett1 is now known as Brianetta 22:16:36 <andythenorth> using smoke to hold more cargos to ships? 22:16:45 <andythenorth> I've read the smoke code, I think it's a no no no 22:17:02 <Terkhen> I don't think that smoke is associated in any way to the vehicle that produces it 22:17:31 <andythenorth> yup 22:17:46 <andythenorth> I wondered about some crazy scheme where cargo is shifted from one smoke vehicle to next 22:17:49 <andythenorth> like a bucket chain 22:17:50 <Wolf01> clone train crashes the game (r21924 nightly) 22:17:55 <andythenorth> but it would be nuts :P 22:18:22 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what happens when you run out of vehicle IDs and a smoke puff is skipped? 22:18:35 <andythenorth> your cargo went 'puff' :) 22:19:03 <andythenorth> spoilage :) 22:20:54 <ABCRic> Wolf01: indeed 22:21:48 <andythenorth> electricity is like underground metro 22:21:49 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0f59.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:55 <andythenorth> it's the suggestion that won't die :P 22:23:04 * andythenorth knows at least two ways to implement it 22:23:14 <andythenorth> one of which is possible 22:26:03 <ABCRic> Access violation reading location 0x00000008, @vehicle_cmd.cpp:789 if (w->IsGroundVehicle() && w->HasArticulatedPart()) 22:28:13 <Eddi|zuHause> missing a check w != NULL 22:28:25 <Wolf01> eh, unified too much ;) 22:28:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess Terkhen should check that? 22:32:41 <Terkhen> ABCRic: please post a bug report, I can't look at that right now 22:32:57 <ABCRic> Terkhen: there is one already 22:33:02 <Terkhen> ok 22:33:18 <ABCRic> FS#4450 it is 22:33:20 <Terkhen> I wonder why it did not appear while profiling different games for hours 22:33:24 <Terkhen> but I'll know later 22:35:57 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.182.119] has left #openttd [] 22:44:41 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-118-73.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 22:49:14 *** JOHN-SHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-40-132.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 22:50:09 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:17 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED662EB.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 22:51:01 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-27-71.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:56:35 *** welshdragon [~dragon@millsie.net] has left #openttd [Leaving] 23:04:17 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8025.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 23:04:40 <Terkhen> heh, cloning 23:20:24 *** Muddy_ [~muddy@using.ipv6.ws] has joined #openttd 23:20:39 *** Muddy is now known as Muddy- 23:20:39 *** Muddy_ is now known as Muddy 23:22:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A4D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:23:09 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db18759.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:25:22 *** Muddy- [muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:53 <Terkhen> hmm... this is not making any sense so I'll look into it tomorrow 23:25:56 <Terkhen> good night 23:29:19 <Wolf01> 'night 23:29:24 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host183-236-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:30:27 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep] 23:42:53 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: frosch * r21926 /trunk/src/vehicle_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4450](r21924): v != w. 23:56:11 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 23:58:40 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe86de00-46.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 23:59:13 <ABCRic> 'night 23:59:19 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@199.18.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Goodbye, world...]