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00:00:01 <Lokimaros> Sorry. 00:00:30 <__ln__> is passworm something like a sandworm 00:00:49 <Lokimaros> Yes, but it excretes passes. 00:01:06 <__ln__> alright 00:05:03 <Lokimaros> Or it excretes in passing, I neve got the details. 00:05:32 <Lokimaros> Anyway, I'm back up on the PC. 00:06:00 <Lokimaros> And hardly any data lost, was able to recover all but the root filesystem. 00:06:12 <Lokimaros> That is still there, but all in lost+found. 00:06:29 <Lokimaros> The whole fscking partition. 00:07:19 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:09:13 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:09:31 *** Lokimaros is now known as Mazur 00:16:49 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 00:21:24 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:24:56 <__ln__> is it wrong to emphasize the great size of US by saying it is "the size of Texas"? 00:27:08 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:27:21 <glx> not for a texan I guess 00:41:51 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-166-213.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:55:11 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:04:40 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:34 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has joined #openttd 01:23:32 <Eddi|zuHause> a person saying this has likely no clue how large either actually is ;) 01:26:20 <__ln__> i was planning to use it in ironic sense in a paper :) 01:38:25 <Eddi|zuHause> irony is a dangerous thing. especially in written text 01:39:20 <__ln__> it is 01:45:43 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:f878:f1ca:261a:f152] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:23:24 *** aber [~Adium@p5085F79F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:26:29 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-204-133.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:30:59 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-129-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:13:47 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@bas8-london14-1279480034.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 03:48:44 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 04:01:18 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 04:28:38 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@bas8-london14-1279480034.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 04:35:34 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:51:34 <planetmaker> good morning 04:51:53 <planetmaker> thanks Eddi|zuHause for the FIRS translation hints. fixed now 04:55:13 *** luckz [~lkz@luckz.de] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 04:55:14 *** luckz [~lkz@luckz.de] has joined #openttd 04:55:51 <supermop> hello 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76941.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76603.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:03:54 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 05:13:58 *** V4530000 [~V453000@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 05:17:39 *** V453000 [~V453000@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:17:39 *** V4530000 is now known as V453000 05:22:06 *** elmz_ [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 05:29:00 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:52:52 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe35dc00-187.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:54:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C767.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 06:05:40 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 06:16:19 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e061cc4.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:16:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6BE5E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 06:23:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C767.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:35:58 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B104077.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:37:29 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B104077.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:37:54 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76603.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:37:59 <Terkhen> good morning 06:40:55 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76603.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:44:26 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:48:00 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 06:54:07 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has joined #openttd 07:00:51 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC217C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:04:24 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:23:57 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 07:24:03 <norbert79> Good day 07:27:39 <dihedral> good morning :-) 07:29:11 <dihedral> planetmaker, ist there a screenshot of the titlegame that won the competition? 07:29:40 <planetmaker> Well... it's also in 1.1.0 ;-) - but yes, on the titlegame page 07:29:54 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/titlegame/ 07:30:16 <dihedral> i am at work and did not want to start a game :-D 07:30:37 <planetmaker> pussy :-P 07:32:01 <norbert79> planetmaker: Question: http://wiki.openttd.org/Roadmap - Will this page be updated sometimes in the future? Been a while since last update :) 07:32:22 <planetmaker> hardly. There's no such thing as a road map really 07:32:49 <planetmaker> of course everyone is welcome to edit it for the existing versions 07:32:53 <planetmaker> it's a wiki. 07:33:00 <Yexo> not that page :) 07:33:05 <norbert79> Agreee, that it isn't necessary too, but then I would suggest a huge REJECTED logo on it 45° degreed with huge big letters :) 07:33:08 <Yexo> all roadmap pages are locked, and for good reason 07:33:24 <dihedral> hehe 07:33:31 <planetmaker> oh, they're locked? I didn't know that :-) 07:33:35 <dihedral> what?? 07:33:38 * andythenorth would like to put bananas changelog field on the roadmap 07:33:41 <andythenorth> oh no 07:33:44 <dihedral> c'mon - it's been like that for a long time pm ^^ 07:33:45 <andythenorth> that means it would never happen :( 07:34:18 <Yexo> and we don't even have a roadmap 1.2 page 07:34:21 <dihedral> but it's true, a roadmap would not really help ^^ 07:34:27 <dihedral> \o/ 07:34:38 <norbert79> -o/ 07:34:43 <andythenorth> what's needed for a changelog? - a new django field, a new text panel in game? 07:34:44 <norbert79> Oops, arm cut off 07:34:47 <andythenorth> hmm 07:34:58 <andythenorth> it might be useful to tie changelogs to specific versions 07:35:16 * andythenorth isn't sure how bananas schema works 07:35:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6BE5E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:35:51 <V453000> holy cow, I think I found an openttd crashing thingy in 1.1.0 stable 07:35:52 * planetmaker assignes bananas re-write to andy, including changelog field, multi-author access and what-not 07:36:00 <V453000> also morning everyone :) 07:36:05 <planetmaker> moin v :-) 07:36:27 <andythenorth> we're rewriting bananas? 07:36:33 <andythenorth> oh I see 07:36:39 <andythenorth> I'm rewriting bananas? 07:36:40 <planetmaker> andythenorth: that's what tb constantly claims needs doing 07:36:48 <andythenorth> build a new one 07:36:50 <andythenorth> in pyramid 07:36:50 <planetmaker> the db design and stuff 07:36:56 <andythenorth> new framework fallacy :P 07:37:46 <V453000> ah, well I was trying to click the "down" button quickly in openttd while downloading new content, and when I pressed it quickly several times, openttd crashed 2 times in a row ... does that have something to do with bananas and your work there or openttd? 07:37:53 <norbert79> I prefer the upside down pyramid... It is a bigger challange 07:37:56 <andythenorth> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4482879/is-pyramid-ready-recommended-for-prime-time 07:37:59 <Yexo> V453000: known and fixed in trunk 07:38:09 <V453000> ok :) thanks 07:38:14 <Yexo> FS#4571 / fixed in r22294 07:38:20 <norbert79> So I assume 1.1.1 will appear soon :D 07:39:01 <planetmaker> I don't think that bug is serious enough to warrant a out-of-order release. But it will come for sure. 07:39:26 <V453000> sure isnt, it just surprised me :p 07:40:18 <planetmaker> stable just means the relative bug count per line of could is or should be lower when compared to trunk ;-) 07:40:29 <planetmaker> s/line of could/line of code/ 07:40:58 <norbert79> planetmaker: Ooh, god, what possibilities... Starting a flame on stable and appearnt bug ammount :) 07:41:00 <norbert79> :D 07:41:22 <norbert79> But I don't want to pick up my trollface :D 07:41:30 *** snorre_ is now known as snorre 07:41:55 <norbert79> Btw is it also this cloudy in Germany too planetmaker? Btw weather would be a nice idea in the game 07:42:17 <norbert79> fog affecting trucks on half speed 07:42:22 <norbert79> snow blocking trains 07:42:23 <norbert79> etc 07:42:34 * andythenorth thinks time to do something else 07:43:08 <andythenorth> hmm 07:43:20 <andythenorth> if we rewrote bananas 07:43:28 <andythenorth> we could add 'mod down points' 07:43:32 <andythenorth> for badly behaved grfs 07:43:49 *** MinchinWeb [~6d095ff6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 07:44:31 <norbert79> andythenorth: Would be a good idea, yet just plain raitings would also do the trick 07:44:50 <norbert79> since think about it, some GRF maker would see in an other GRF a competency and starts devoting it 07:45:11 <andythenorth> ratings are bad 07:45:31 <andythenorth> points against technical criteria are not 07:46:00 <norbert79> same method, same results... And you guys have to all review all the GRF's and handle false statements on bad behaviour too 07:46:07 <norbert79> which might turn out to be false 07:46:21 <norbert79> same misery like handling GRF changed savegames 07:47:03 <andythenorth> norbert79: describe a system to decide a rating (say between 0 and 5, with 5==highest)... 07:47:21 <norbert79> No, I don't think that the rating system in itself makes any sense 07:48:11 <norbert79> like you have B1.GRF which makes trains shiny, I have B2.GRF which turns trains into more shiny trains... Now you introduce one new feature, and I am in envy, and rate your GRF very bad, and ask 10 more people to do so 07:48:20 <norbert79> while the GRF works perfectly 07:48:42 <norbert79> Now think further :) 07:48:55 <andythenorth> my proposal is for boolean mod-down points, on specific issues 07:49:24 <andythenorth> nothing ever implies a grf is good 07:49:24 <andythenorth> but if it has known problems for version x.y.z, that's indicated 07:49:24 <andythenorth> e.g. known bugs 07:49:36 <andythenorth> or it's not a final release 07:49:49 <norbert79> No, rating should not be introduced at all, and leave up to people to decide what GRF to be downloaded and used... If some GRF won't be downloaded for like 2 years, then it can go 07:50:04 <andythenorth> norbert79: what problem do you think I'm trying to solve? 07:50:19 <norbert79> Avoiding GRFs on poor quality 07:50:33 <andythenorth> and for why? 07:50:48 <norbert79> For less headache, but ratings will just do the oppositew 07:50:50 <norbert79> -w 07:51:00 <andythenorth> less headache for who? 07:51:01 <norbert79> since the results can be manipulated 07:51:12 <norbert79> for OpenTTD dev team what else? 07:51:41 <andythenorth> ok so here's the issue I see 07:51:49 <andythenorth> currently most grfs on bananas are not 'done' 07:51:55 <andythenorth> many are 'quite done' 07:51:59 <andythenorth> some are probably broken 07:52:09 <norbert79> Is OpenTTD finished? 07:52:20 <andythenorth> because changing grfs in game breaks games, we've banned that 07:52:33 <norbert79> that wasn't the best choice btw, but a reasonable 07:52:45 <norbert79> But let me ask back: when will OpenTTD be finished? 07:52:50 <norbert79> Don't answer 07:52:51 <andythenorth> so now an unsuspecting bananas user downloads grf xyz, finds it has problems, and has to start over with a new game 07:52:52 <norbert79> you cannot 07:52:56 <norbert79> same goes for GRFs 07:53:15 <andythenorth> that's kind of bollocks really isn't it 07:53:44 <andythenorth> it's never 'finished', but there's a clear difference between a nightly, a pre-1.0 release, and a post 1.0 release 07:54:36 <norbert79> Introduce then requirements and have a beta banana and a stable one, like with Debian... Set policies, where GRFs have to fit against, otherwise they go back to the beta pool... But ratings are like statistics, they can be easily manipulated... 07:55:02 <norbert79> ratings will turn Bananas into a disaster 07:55:17 <andythenorth> is the Debian policy system a disaster? 07:55:22 <dihedral> bananas rewrite? 07:55:33 <dihedral> you'd surely want it in python though, would you not? ^^ 07:55:38 <dihedral> django ^^ 07:55:39 <andythenorth> pyramid :P 07:55:40 <norbert79> No, but no package goes into a pool just because it's being voted for that 07:55:49 <andythenorth> norbert79: was voting mentioned? 07:55:54 <dihedral> andythenorth, java servlets :-D 07:56:27 <norbert79> Think about the fact, that with ratings new GRF developers will have no chance on releasing newly developed GRF's, and have less opportunity to spread their ideas, since older GRF's have 123456789 good votes and his only 2 07:56:48 <andythenorth> only on the assumption your making that the system includes voting 07:56:51 <norbert79> Ok just one question so I can understand you right 07:57:07 <norbert79> Would you leave rating to the users or the developers? 07:57:19 <andythenorth> mods 07:57:23 <andythenorth> same as forums etc 07:57:27 <andythenorth> small number of people 07:57:39 <andythenorth> we don't allow voting on commits 07:57:45 <norbert79> Ok, then many of my comments are out of question 07:57:45 <planetmaker> I don't really want to judge the quality of the grfs users supply in an authorative way 07:57:49 <andythenorth> ;) 07:57:49 <dihedral> i'd not do rating at all to be honest 07:58:08 <Yexo> only letting a small number of users (devs/mods or not) vote is a bad idea 07:58:25 <dihedral> letting anybody vote is a bad idea too ^^ 07:58:28 <Yexo> now if there was a clear set of rules and there only has to be a yes/no decision, that can be done by a small number of people 07:58:35 <andythenorth> yes. 07:58:39 <andythenorth> it's objective criteria 07:58:41 <norbert79> planetmaker: Well, I would also think fitting to specific requzirements would be a better solution too, like: 1.) does the GRF support latest stable (1.1.0) or works only with speciifc version - 1pt 07:58:45 <andythenorth> I'm asking for fact, not opinion 07:58:53 <dihedral> i think voting / rating will get in the way 07:58:55 <norbert79> yeah, exactly 07:58:57 <andythenorth> for example, it's fact whether a grf is savegame safe 07:59:06 <dihedral> authors might feel 'bashed' by bad rating and stop their work 07:59:06 <andythenorth> it's fact whether it implements action 14 stuff or not 07:59:08 <planetmaker> but there is no small set of rules. Or it'd require extensive review. Who's willing to do that? In an objective way? 07:59:13 <norbert79> andythenorth: Ok then we are talking about the same method, just from different perspective 07:59:14 <dihedral> which is a very bad side effect 07:59:20 <Yexo> norbert79: grfs can already have minimum and maximum version, so if it doesn't work in 1.1 just set the maximum version to 1.0 07:59:30 <norbert79> Yexo: One problem less then :) 07:59:38 <andythenorth> players might feel bashed by an extensive number of grfs that break their games 08:00:05 <planetmaker> hm... slovak language still broken 08:00:06 <andythenorth> (if such an extensive number exists, I'm not sure actually) 08:00:07 <norbert79> ands despite good generic rating GRF's can still cause issues 08:00:13 <dihedral> that though is another problem - and voting / rating is not a good solution to that, andythenorth 08:00:16 <andythenorth> there's no 'good' rating 08:00:21 <andythenorth> just 'this grf has known problems' 08:00:35 <planetmaker> well. Every grf has. As a matter of perspective 08:00:45 <planetmaker> balancing ;-) 08:00:53 <planetmaker> cross-grf "talk" 08:00:54 <planetmaker> etc pp 08:00:58 <dihedral> ^^ 08:01:04 <andythenorth> well currently for a player, it's a total crap-shoot 08:01:16 <norbert79> planetmaker: Considering of course what was it made for, like Town names GRF's would not have too much issues, but it was more meant just to replace names, right? 08:01:21 <andythenorth> they have barely any way of knowing what a grf is / does, what it's compatible with etc. 08:01:30 <andythenorth> and once they commit to their game, that's it 08:01:32 <dihedral> bananas provides a service for grf authors - which is in game deployment 08:01:42 <planetmaker> norbert79: I can no problem combine evil-ism with town names 08:01:42 <dihedral> it is the users choise which grf to get / install / use 08:02:03 <andythenorth> but it's a hugely uninformed choice 08:02:07 <norbert79> planetmaker: Ok, maybe I had my sleep and haven't thought through that from a more evil perspective :D 08:02:08 <planetmaker> there's no safe grf à priori 08:02:46 <planetmaker> andythenorth: so is the use, of say, an app store 08:02:52 <andythenorth> isn't the current situation equivalent to going to Youtube or whatever and clicking some buttons for 'some random videos that have nice sounding names'? 08:02:52 <planetmaker> you just gotta know what to download 08:02:59 <andythenorth> bad example :P 08:03:05 <andythenorth> app stores have policies 08:03:05 <norbert79> planetmaker: Careful using the words app store, Apple might sue you :D 08:03:16 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes: conforms to broad standards 08:03:21 <planetmaker> so does bananas have. 08:03:28 <planetmaker> there are TOS, that's it. 08:03:46 <planetmaker> No warranty of fitness for a particular purpose, including merchandisability or whatever 08:03:56 <andythenorth> meh 08:04:18 <planetmaker> even your licenses say so :-P 08:04:20 <andythenorth> an app store might have things including: useful descriptions, reviews, ratings, links to developer website, similar apps 08:04:30 <andythenorth> bananas provides almost none of that 08:04:33 <planetmaker> so do newgrf descriptions 08:04:36 <norbert79> andythenorth: App-Store BASIC! Just from OpenTTD for YOU! 08:04:53 <norbert79> no need for the shiny things 08:04:58 <norbert79> just what the player needs 08:04:59 <norbert79> :) 08:05:47 <norbert79> Yet for the downloader I would suggest having a : "Select all unselected" button, so I can easly download all missing GRF's :) 08:06:26 <norbert79> Btw my OpenTTD got larger, now it is around 440 MB, having ALL GRFS included, even past versions, and all the binaries for all the OS 08:06:27 <planetmaker> that was not added on grounds of "choose explicitly" 08:06:59 <norbert79> planetmaker: I see, well, I am a collector though, maybe I am just that 1% :) 08:07:09 <planetmaker> you aren't 08:07:25 <planetmaker> many do, I think. If we add that 99% would do :-P 08:07:58 <norbert79> well I doubt that many users prefer the game having it portable, so running it within one directory only all the time :) 08:08:20 <planetmaker> and you usually don't need "all grfs". You need those for your next game. Thus... you know which you need ;-) 08:08:51 *** ar3k [~ident@ebz185.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 08:09:02 <norbert79> I just love to experiment, and have scenario developer also allowed, but I am not a regular user neither of course, so I know the risk :) 08:09:31 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:10:00 <norbert79> OpenTTD is something I always come back too, despite whatever game I am addicted to recently... 08:11:20 <dihedral> i've not been adicted to (playing) a game for a long time 08:13:02 <norbert79> But about the rating system, version control is included, so that's not required. I think different policies should be set for different purposed GRFs, like addon cars, then have a set of requirements behalf of that, but town names should have a shorter list, yet included that one question if the GRF does have sideeffects or not 08:14:40 <andythenorth> I would keep to a minimal list of requirements 08:14:42 <andythenorth> really 08:15:18 <Ammler> planetmaker: tell us the truth :-) what is more annoying the support questions you got because someone fiddled around with newgrfs on running game or the questions now from people asking how to change newgrfs on running game? 08:15:38 <andythenorth> 1. is this grf known to have serious problems, either on its own or due to its effect on other grfs 08:16:04 <andythenorth> 2. is this grf considered reasonably complete? 08:16:14 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecy197.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:16:16 <andythenorth> 3. does this grf implement various action 14 criteria? 08:16:47 <andythenorth> 4. does this grf provide documentation, e.g. at least a useful description? 08:16:47 <norbert79> andythenorth:1.) Oh, well, that's something hard to tell really, since consider the definiton of problems... Take for example having loaded two town names GRF's at the same time... But also consider, that this was each GRF had to be reviewed against all the others GRF's too to be able to answer that question... 08:16:52 <Yexo> Ammler: currently the people asking how to change newgrfs on a running game 08:17:10 <Yexo> however that is because many of them are used to that working, since it did in previous versions 08:17:13 <andythenorth> norbert79: there's no box to tick to say 'this grf has *no* problems' 08:17:26 <norbert79> 2.) Also hard to answer, but yet can be given a close answer behalf of it's goal and it's completiton 08:17:26 <Yexo> the older 1.0 gets, the less support requests we'll get about that 08:17:51 <andythenorth> 2 can be deferred to the development team if they are active 08:17:52 <norbert79> andythenorth: Agree, yet that 1st question in that current form might just brong up more problems, than answers answered... 08:18:14 <norbert79> questions answered 08:18:45 <norbert79> andythenorth: Like take one GRF with planes and trains replacement, and load Aviatiors GRF.. of course it will bring problems 08:18:56 <norbert79> andythenorth: But it's none of the GRFs fault 08:19:08 <andythenorth> why? 08:19:09 <Ammler> and scenario_developer is a kind of insider, which you shouldn't share with newbies? 08:19:25 <norbert79> cause the one already offers planes, because the GRF creator wanted to have like that 08:19:51 <norbert79> so both work perfect, but together they don't, because it was nbever thought having them together... 08:20:04 <norbert79> so on them own both work perfect... 08:20:19 <norbert79> just one what-if scenario really 08:20:20 <Ammler> I mean, that switch would solve the issue of those guys 08:20:34 <planetmaker> Ammler: in essence the scenario developer is a developer tool 08:20:50 <planetmaker> Such not a setting which a newbie should activate 08:21:03 <norbert79> a newbie would never look inside the cfg file anyway 08:21:05 <andythenorth> norbert79: I thought that might be the case that killed question 1 :P 08:21:17 <andythenorth> I'm not sure question 1 is a boolean answer 08:21:18 <Ammler> people asking for editing newgrfs on running game aren't newbies, are they? 08:21:25 <andythenorth> yes 08:21:28 <norbert79> andythenorth: Yeah, but does that really make one GRF not perfect? 08:21:36 <norbert79> andythenorth: i REALLY DOUBT :) 08:21:37 <norbert79> Oops 08:21:38 <planetmaker> Ammler: most are 08:21:48 <andythenorth> norbert79: I think your point invalidates my question 1 08:21:57 <andythenorth> question 1 can't be meaningfully answered 08:22:03 <norbert79> andythenorth: Indeed 08:22:12 <andythenorth> what is more correct: a grf disables default vehicles, or leaves them? 08:22:24 <norbert79> I would really modify it too like: No serious issues, like crashes full crash of a savegame and such 08:22:36 <norbert79> andythenorth: Depends.. 08:22:43 <andythenorth> hmm 08:22:49 <Yexo> if the grf provides a full set of vehicles it should disable the default ones 08:22:58 <norbert79> Yexo: Exactly 08:23:02 <Yexo> there are multiple grfs around that can enable the default vehicles again for those who want that 08:23:06 <andythenorth> Yexo: is that an established community standard? 08:23:15 <planetmaker> somewhat, yes 08:23:20 <norbert79> So far yes, and I love this way too 08:23:25 <Ammler> andythenorth: you still have default engine newgrf 08:23:27 <Yexo> yes, since before the engine pool all vehicle sets had no choice 08:23:31 <Ammler> if you like "reenalbe" 08:23:35 <andythenorth> is not disabling default vehicles a failure to meet a standard? 08:23:41 <norbert79> no 08:23:44 <Yexo> not really 08:23:44 <norbert79> not at all 08:23:50 <norbert79> Take Aviators airfcraft set 08:23:52 <andythenorth> so that one isn't something that could be boolean checked 08:23:57 <andythenorth> hmm 08:24:01 <norbert79> why would it make sense to have base planes and the additional ones too? 08:24:17 <andythenorth> if I change a track tile to a non-track tile in a station set, I *will* break savegames 08:24:20 <andythenorth> that is a problem 08:24:28 <norbert79> andythenorth: So? 08:24:38 <andythenorth> so it crashes the game, last I checked 08:24:45 <norbert79> If you apply a GRF in a savegame, then you know the risk, this is why you removed the GRF modification in game 08:24:54 <andythenorth> umm no 08:25:00 <norbert79> yeah, partially 08:25:03 <andythenorth> yeah maybe 08:25:07 <Ammler> andythenorth: only if a train is at that station, afaik 08:25:14 <norbert79> alright, not feeling skilled enough typing down tousands of lines in a flash :D 08:25:32 <andythenorth> does bananas handle that case for me? 08:25:37 <andythenorth> assuming same grfid, no action 14 08:26:22 <andythenorth> or does it just load the newer grf into my savegame? 08:27:05 <andythenorth> if the latter, then it means you can download content from untrusted 3rd parties that can DoS your game 08:27:17 <andythenorth> with no warning, even from a well-intentioned grf author 08:27:20 <planetmaker> no action14 means there's no newgrf version. It will take then a random one of those with the same grfID around 08:27:32 <andythenorth> so potential DoS of my game... 08:27:37 <andythenorth> and potential loss of user data 08:27:41 <planetmaker> (if the one used previously had no newgrf version either) 08:27:44 <andythenorth> doesn't seem ideal 08:28:04 <Yexo> if you're going to make new requirements than having an action14 version could be one 08:28:18 <andythenorth> I think action 14 is the broad solution to quite a few of the quality issues 08:28:39 <andythenorth> I have been *strongly* encouraged to use action 14, I think that should be pursued further 08:28:45 <andythenorth> especially now 1.1 is released 08:29:12 <andythenorth> wrt savegame safety, and parameters, action 14 should be...not enforced...but highly encouraged 08:29:12 <planetmaker> well. grfcodec already complains, if it has no action14 08:29:40 <planetmaker> or nforenum. Dunno which 08:29:43 <andythenorth> there's no subjectivity to assessing the action 14 implementation is there 08:29:48 <andythenorth> it's straightforward 08:30:05 <andythenorth> it could even be done by bananas, if it could interpret the grf 08:30:16 <andythenorth> no human needed (tm) 08:31:16 <planetmaker> well, it could. And it would put an end to the possibility to add old(er) newgrfs to bananas 08:31:24 <andythenorth> you wouldn't prevent it 08:31:27 <andythenorth> just raise a flag 08:32:09 <planetmaker> like max_openttd_version 0.7.0 ;-) 08:32:17 <andythenorth> ho 08:32:22 <andythenorth> depends how brutal you want to be :) 08:32:25 <planetmaker> then it could be downloaded, if needed (that's good), but not available for general download 08:33:17 <andythenorth> hmm 08:33:21 * andythenorth browses bananas 08:33:37 <andythenorth> "Bauxite Waggon" raises an interesting case - read the description 08:33:49 <planetmaker> similar like all old versions can be downloaded, but are not generally available (anymore) 08:34:20 <Yexo> heh, why is that one not removed already? 08:34:25 <Yexo> who is the owner anyway? 08:34:31 <planetmaker> removed? 08:34:47 <Yexo> please read the description in the online content window 08:35:08 <Yexo> "... (To whoever has the authority to do so: Please remove from Bananas)" 08:35:14 <andythenorth> interesting case ;) 08:35:19 <Yexo> s/removed/set max version to 1.0 or so/ 08:35:29 <planetmaker> oberhÃŒmer obviously. Maybe no one told him to do so 08:35:41 <planetmaker> It's not the most obvious thing to do 08:35:45 <Yexo> indeed 08:35:57 <Ammler> he asked here already and we told him how to hide it 08:35:59 <planetmaker> I'll write him 08:36:13 <Ammler> or was that someone else 08:36:16 <Yexo> was about to, but I'll leave it to you 08:37:10 <Yexo> how up to date is the 2cc Chimaera addon? 08:37:11 <andythenorth> another criteria: grf name contains typos 08:37:19 <Ammler> planetmaker: and he should "restore" the description :-) 08:37:41 <andythenorth> Yexo: who knows :P There's no useful description, no added date, no modified date etc 08:37:49 <Ammler> Yexo: it is for 1.0 afaik 08:37:57 <andythenorth> is the URL field even useful? Really? 08:38:09 <Yexo> so outdated and should not be available, since 2ccset 1.0 is not available either 08:38:17 <Yexo> andythenorth: yes, via the webinterface 08:38:56 <andythenorth> ah ok 08:39:11 <Ammler> Yexo: let me check, if it is on the shared account 08:39:19 <andythenorth> "no description" should be a boolean quality criteria. It's objective 08:39:39 <Ammler> it isn't 08:39:56 <Yexo> what about "Arctic Remove SNOW"? A grf like that can only work properly with either original base graphics or OpenGFX, but it doesn't mention either in the description 08:40:17 <planetmaker> Yexo: but the chimeara add-on can be used on its own. E.g. with a non-maglev trainset 08:40:28 <Yexo> Ammler: BaseMod 3.0 and BaseMod 3.2 are both available for download 08:40:36 <planetmaker> ho 08:40:54 <planetmaker> av8 08:41:11 <Ammler> Yexo: so you have multiple versions allowed? 08:41:26 <Yexo> they're available for download in the online content window 08:41:28 <Ammler> elese those would need different entries 08:41:32 <Yexo> you can't enable multiple versions there 08:41:37 <planetmaker> ex's citybuilder 08:41:52 <Ammler> hmm, so how is that possible? 08:41:59 <Ammler> (not necessary) 08:42:20 <Yexo> hmm, in the webinterface there is only 1 BaseMod newgrf 08:42:27 <norbert79> Back... 08:42:37 <Ammler> Yexo: there is a BaseMod Presets 08:42:38 <planetmaker> lumbermill 08:42:44 <Ammler> maybe you confused with that 08:42:54 <planetmaker> Ammler: there's 2x Base Costs and 1x BaseMod presets 08:43:09 <Yexo> ^^ not confused with the presets one 08:43:17 <Ammler> well, you are the bananas experts, tell me why :-) 08:43:26 <norbert79> If you don't enable multiple versions to a mod, how are you able to remove an older version of a savegame, on which you have worked on for months and replacing it with a newer version,s ince you lost the older version? 08:43:56 <Ammler> version 3.0 and 3.2 have same id and same bananas entry 08:44:08 <planetmaker> norbert79: download the missing grfs from the file load dialogue 08:44:09 <andythenorth> norbert79: edge case? 08:44:23 <norbert79> andythenorth: ? 08:44:24 <planetmaker> like download from the MP join lobby works for older newgrfs 08:44:30 <Yexo> norbert79: make sure not to lose newgrfs, just like you make sure not to lose that scenario? 08:44:37 <planetmaker> Ammler: interesting... 08:44:42 <norbert79> planetmaker: Ah, right, new feature in 1.1.0 probably, haven't reviewed latest version in that depth 08:44:54 <Yexo> it also worked that way in 1.0 ;) 08:45:09 <norbert79> Yexo: Probably, but I haven't had such an issue for a long time :) 08:45:18 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has left #openttd [] 08:45:20 <andythenorth> edge case :P 08:45:22 <norbert79> Yexo: Lost a track a bit to OpenTTD since I got addicted to a different game :) 08:46:01 <Ammler> also openttd version requirement are for both the same (0.7.2) 08:47:01 <Ammler> planetmaker: Yexo, IMO it is simply, you have enabled multiversion and 3.0 is already in your local repo 08:47:09 <andythenorth> should town names be sub-classed? 08:47:15 <planetmaker> Ammler: I just disabled that setting 08:47:32 * Ammler starts his own openttd then :-P 08:47:35 <Yexo> Ammler: multiversion is disabled and I don't have either 3.0 or 3.2 locally 08:47:53 <planetmaker> ... 08:48:08 <Yexo> andythenorth: only if vehicle sets (perhaps per vehicle type) and industry sets are subclassed too 08:48:24 <Ammler> there would also be a version 3.1, which isn't there 08:48:26 <andythenorth> how many classes needed? 08:48:30 <Ammler> that is really strange 08:48:34 <planetmaker> yes 08:48:43 <planetmaker> is it a coop grf? 08:48:43 <andythenorth> classes would broadly match to feature bytes in nfo... 08:48:53 <Yexo> indeed 08:48:54 <norbert79> maybe the developer never released 3.1 08:49:23 <planetmaker> Ammler: they're indicated incompatible 08:49:30 <planetmaker> 3.2 is only compatible to itself 08:49:39 <planetmaker> thus it makes sense... 08:49:45 <Yexo> not really 08:49:46 <andythenorth> tags aren't working ideally 08:49:50 <planetmaker> yes. 08:50:01 <planetmaker> no minv = compatible to version itself, nothing more 08:50:29 <Yexo> so? 3.0 should only be available for people that already have 3.0 in a savegame / on a server, not for general download 08:50:34 <Ammler> planetmaker: I already told you that that is wrong, so I can't fix that 08:50:48 <Ammler> default should be version 0 08:50:57 <Yexo> no, definitely not 08:50:59 <planetmaker> but... then there should be 3.1, too 08:51:04 <andythenorth> he 08:51:14 <Ammler> you have again used the wrong value as default, you are known for such mistakes :-P 08:51:15 <andythenorth> we can't work it out....how should players? :D 08:51:20 <Yexo> planetmaker: think FIRS, there are multiple incompatible versions on bananas but only 1 shows as possible download 08:51:33 <planetmaker> Ammler: still, set max_openttd_version to 1.0 or so 08:51:51 <Yexo> Ammler: strongly disagree, if you really want compatibility from version 0 you have to think about that and actually set it 08:51:57 <planetmaker> ^^ 08:52:01 <Ammler> planetmaker: it doesn't have vmin set at all, afaik 08:52:06 <planetmaker> yes. 08:52:07 <Ammler> that is the issue, isn't? 08:52:09 <Yexo> yes 08:52:19 <Yexo> no vmin -> vmin = vcurrent 08:52:20 <planetmaker> not sure. I don't see 3.1 available 08:52:31 <Yexo> neither do I 08:52:32 <planetmaker> *not sure that's the issue 08:53:00 <Yexo> it isn't, bananas doesn't check the a14 IIRC 08:53:12 <Ammler> I upload a new version with vmin 0, then we see? 08:53:17 <planetmaker> it does not afaik, indeed 08:53:27 <planetmaker> Ammler: just for that sake? 08:53:36 <planetmaker> not worth 08:53:36 <Ammler> yes, why else? 08:53:52 <planetmaker> first edit the max version of 3.0 :-P 08:53:55 <Ammler> [10:51] <planetmaker> Ammler: still, set max_openttd_version to 1.0 or so <-- didn't you mean that? 08:54:06 <planetmaker> oh, yes 08:54:18 <planetmaker> let's re-check 08:55:38 <planetmaker> hm, no change 08:55:45 <Ammler> 3.0 has no a14 08:56:08 <Ammler> 3.1 and 3.2 have 08:56:29 <Ammler> so there is a difference between no a14 and a14 without mver maybe? 08:57:48 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:58:17 <dihedral> hello Ammler :-) 08:58:54 <planetmaker> maybe, yes 08:59:17 <dihedral> maybe hello? :-P 09:05:30 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 09:06:45 <planetmaker> dihedral: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/152/ ;-) 09:06:58 <planetmaker> of course the error is right. But should it crash? 09:07:53 <dihedral> no, should not :-) should exit cleanly :-D 09:08:06 <dihedral> bug report? :-P 09:08:13 * dihedral chuckles 09:08:39 <dihedral> in fact, i would rather it created the file instead ^^ 09:09:00 <planetmaker> that's what I hoped it'd do. 09:09:20 <planetmaker> Inventing a cfg file from scratch is... interesting, if you don't know the exact format ;-) 09:09:27 <planetmaker> nor the items it should contain 09:09:58 <Ammler> hmm, hello dih :-) 09:13:12 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-20-214.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 09:13:24 <dihedral> planetmaker, touch grapes.cfg ;-) 09:13:28 <dihedral> the rest it will do for you 09:13:33 <planetmaker> dihedral: I know ;-) 09:13:39 <dihedral> yes yes :-D 09:13:43 <dihedral> i'll fix it ;-) 09:15:39 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 09:15:46 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has left #openttd [] 09:16:22 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host32-229-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:16:27 <Wolf01> hello 09:20:25 <MinchinWeb> One thing that I think would be useful with the in-game Bananas screen is a way to copy/open the URL listed 09:20:55 <MinchinWeb> most of them are to the TT-Forums site, and I don't want to type 9-odd random numbers and hope I get it right... 09:20:59 <Yexo> opening a browser is non-trivial to implement cross-platform 09:21:15 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-20-214.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:21:38 <MinchinWeb> could you make the text selectable somehow? 09:21:56 <MinchinWeb> (copy and paste yourself to the webbrowser) 09:22:00 <Yexo> not sure how easy the clipboard is too support 09:22:08 <Yexo> perhaps it's already supported, I don't know 09:22:27 <Ammler> on windows only, if 09:22:29 <planetmaker> pasting from clipboard is 09:22:38 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-17-210.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 09:22:41 <Ammler> ok, maybe mac too then ;-) 09:22:48 <Ammler> but for sure not with sdl 09:22:50 <planetmaker> also linux 09:23:00 <Ammler> :-o 09:23:02 <Ammler> since? 09:23:12 <planetmaker> but linux has more than one clipboard. Not sure each... 09:23:15 <Yexo> it is? how does it work 09:23:32 <planetmaker> ctrl+v pastes iirc 09:23:48 <Yexo> I can't get that to paste anything 09:23:55 <planetmaker> hm 09:24:02 <Ammler> I know, it works on windows 09:24:17 <Ammler> never was able to c&p on linux 09:24:19 <planetmaker> also on osx. I can't test linux right now 09:24:55 <Ammler> that is why I "asked" for the command option -p 09:25:01 <MinchinWeb> well I can't figure out how to select the text on Windows... 09:25:45 <planetmaker> I only know that pasting into openttd works. Not sure marking and copying works 09:27:19 <MinchinWeb> Perhaps if you could get to the support page easily from the Online Content Form, many of the issues andy et al. were discussing would be less of an issue... 09:28:16 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 09:29:31 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:32:10 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1047D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:34:53 <norbert79> About Copy paste: Ctrl+Ins and Shift+Ins is one clipboard imho and Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V is the other 09:35:15 <norbert79> sometimes both work to the same clipboard, sometimes those are seperated 09:37:34 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B104077.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:04:33 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6BE5E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 10:14:35 <andythenorth> assuming url / copy and paste are out of the question.... 10:14:40 <andythenorth> url shortening service for bananas? 10:15:26 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-17-210.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [] 10:20:13 <andythenorth> openttd.org/go/abc123 10:27:16 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:33:08 <andythenorth> how many versions of how many grfs do we expect? 10:33:30 <andythenorth> @calc 26 * 26 * 26 10:33:30 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 17576 10:33:44 <andythenorth> we could use a three letter code 10:33:53 <andythenorth> a-z only, case insensitive 10:34:04 <andythenorth> if we top out, add another letter :P 10:34:13 <andythenorth> just make the string matching sufficiently smart 10:34:26 * planetmaker doesn't really see much use in url-shortener 10:34:36 *** Chris_Booth_ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:34:45 <andythenorth> I thought of it as a sticking plaster 10:34:53 <norbert79> but don't end up like other game providers having an usrl of http://Iamcoolgame.com/something/a/x/p/l/o/m/almostthere/g/j/l/notquiet/something123456789.grf 10:34:53 <andythenorth> but it's the same sticking plaster as tinyurl 10:35:12 <andythenorth> tinyurl is....not unpopular 10:35:29 <dihedral> i see no point in such a thing either 10:35:36 <norbert79> me neither... Not necessary 10:35:39 <norbert79> imho 10:35:42 <andythenorth> so lets delete the url field from bananas then 10:35:44 <dihedral> overkill 10:35:57 <norbert79> no, URL field can be sueful 10:36:00 <andythenorth> the usability of the current field tends towards zero 10:36:00 <dihedral> the url field is to link to their website, the forums or whatnot 10:36:07 <dihedral> the author does that, not bananas 10:36:10 <norbert79> since when I want to work on a GRF but vcan't start the game in work :) 10:36:25 <andythenorth> the url field has severe usability issues 10:36:30 <planetmaker> you never look here, andythenorth http://bananas.openttd.org/en/ ? 10:36:37 <andythenorth> two of the possible fixes are unavailable to us 10:36:46 <andythenorth> planetmaker: that is of no use in game 10:36:50 <andythenorth> how does it help? 10:36:52 <planetmaker> you just enter the URL to your project, and the list is comprehensive. No need for any shortening or so 10:36:55 <norbert79> andythenorth: But outside of the game 10:37:01 <dihedral> bananas is not just 'in game' ;-) 10:37:02 <andythenorth> how do you know the url to your project? 10:37:18 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you know the one of yours? You entered it 10:37:19 <dihedral> ...? 10:37:23 <andythenorth> ? 10:37:26 <norbert79> ?? 10:37:27 <dihedral> oh dear :-P 10:37:31 <planetmaker> ? 10:37:32 <andythenorth> but the player doesn't author projects 10:37:34 <andythenorth> we cross talk :D 10:37:39 <dihedral> planetmaker, you caused havok :-P 10:37:53 <dihedral> you started it all ^^ 10:38:09 <dihedral> andythenorth, bananas is not just a "players" thing 10:38:21 <andythenorth> I think it's barely a players thing at the moment at all 10:38:29 <dihedral> oh boy 10:38:31 <andythenorth> it's just a big black box 10:38:49 <andythenorth> ach 10:38:54 <andythenorth> my solution is good 10:38:57 <andythenorth> might be unneeded 10:38:59 <planetmaker> black box is different ;-) 10:39:00 <andythenorth> but it's not bad 10:39:12 <planetmaker> But the URL things needing a change... I don't see why ;-) 10:39:12 <dihedral> your solution does not match the requirements layed down for bananas in the first place :-P 10:39:15 <andythenorth> got to to out - I'll explain later ;) 10:39:29 <andythenorth> keep your arguments fresh :) 10:39:30 <dihedral> hihi 10:39:42 * dihedral puts his arguments in the fridge 10:40:08 <norbert79> watch for the expiry date :) 10:40:20 * dihedral freezes boiling water 10:40:29 <dihedral> you never know when you need boiling water ^^ 10:41:44 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:41:49 <norbert79> Good point! :) 10:41:50 <norbert79> :D 10:42:25 <norbert79> while I guess it's possible somehow, since water boiles on a lower temperature under presure 10:42:46 <norbert79> so I guess reaching that critical pressure might indeed allow freezing boiling water :)) 10:43:12 <norbert79> oh, wait, it's the other way around 10:43:34 <norbert79> what about boiling freezing water? 10:43:45 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:46:22 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 10:49:13 <planetmaker> it's called triple-point 10:57:14 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:59:36 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.12.7.215] has joined #openttd 11:01:11 <Eddi|zuHause> err... just because it's in gaseous form doesn't mean it's actually boiling. 11:05:05 <dihedral> same with sucking air out of it ^^ 11:05:22 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:07:20 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 11:17:34 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 11:29:01 * andythenorth boils freezing soup 11:29:05 <andythenorth> and feeds it to the baby 11:30:01 <andythenorth> what is the purpose, in game, of displaying the url field for a newgrf 11:30:08 <andythenorth> in content download window 11:30:13 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:30:14 <andythenorth> ]? 11:33:45 *** MinchinWeb [~6d095ff6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:34:54 <planetmaker> andythenorth, it may not be convenient, but it is of use IMHO 11:44:03 *** KingJ [~KingJ-OFT@95.154.197.17] has joined #openttd 11:44:58 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: in the random german town names, i think the suffixes -kirch and -kirchen appear too often 11:46:05 <planetmaker> 0.1.0? 11:47:24 <planetmaker> generally all suffixes are equally likely. But kirch / kirchen are two, thus it may appear as double probability if looked at jointly 11:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's what i mean 11:47:48 <planetmaker> Also I'll not be unhappy about additional suggestions for pre- and suffixes ;-) 11:48:01 <norbert79> This only shows how religious germans are :P 11:48:47 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'm quite impressed overall, it sounds much more natural than the builtin ones ;) 11:48:56 <planetmaker> thanks :-) 11:49:26 <planetmaker> there are combinations which "holpern", but... ironing out those is exponentially more work ;-) 11:49:58 <norbert79> Yexo: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=53934 - Looks like having FUN... I guess despite it's in the readme and FAQ, noone is interested in reading :) 11:51:31 *** perk11 [~perk11@sR-UN-2.izmaylovo.net] has joined #openttd 11:52:54 *** perk11 [~perk11@sR-UN-2.izmaylovo.net] has quit [] 11:53:59 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55:32 *** perk11 [~perk11@sR-UN-2.izmaylovo.net] has joined #openttd 11:56:38 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 12:15:46 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:24 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 12:20:21 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c14f:83d9:8f6d:42d2] has joined #openttd 12:20:24 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:21:27 <dihedral> planetmaker, Bad, Schein (esp. fun with the town named 'Heilig' or 'Werfer') ... :-D 12:22:01 *** canis85 [~bbabcock@69.164.216.34] has joined #openttd 12:24:38 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-004-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:26:38 <norbert79> dihedral: Sounds weird though if it begins with Nebel and ends with Werfer :D 12:27:24 <dihedral> ingen is also a nice suffix ^^ 12:29:02 <planetmaker> Bad is of course included as prefix. 12:30:11 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:31:35 *** perk11 [~perk11@sR-UN-2.izmaylovo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:34:27 *** aber [~Adium@p5085D57B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:44:43 <dihedral> planetmaker, how about 'i' 12:44:45 <dihedral> :-D 12:45:04 <dihedral> iPlochingen iBonn iBerlin 12:45:32 <planetmaker> :-P 12:45:57 <dihedral> and suffix 2.0 :-P 12:50:25 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:51:04 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has joined #openttd 12:51:45 <Eddi|zuHause> AHH... MY EYES... i opened a JPG! 13:07:37 *** MinchinWeb [~6d095ff6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 13:09:30 <__ln__> iHello 13:11:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6BE5E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BA98.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:16:40 <Belugas> hello 13:18:09 <MinchinWeb> hello :à 13:18:12 <MinchinWeb> :) 13:31:05 <Eddi|zuHause> "Scientists! Investigate!" - "But we're playing Minecraft!" :p 13:32:10 <Eddi|zuHause> now i need to investigate what a jelly bean actually is... 13:50:23 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:03:11 *** MinchinWeb [~6d095ff6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:13:43 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 14:23:21 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:54 *** luQue [~lkz@luckz.de] has joined #openttd 14:39:54 *** luckz [~lkz@luckz.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:41:05 *** Ammller [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:42:31 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:31 *** Ammller is now known as Ammler 14:42:52 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:43:07 <__ln__> supermop: thanks 14:48:00 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 15:06:13 <supermop> hm? 15:08:20 <planetmaker> <__ln__> ummm.. what is an idiomatic way to say "to my luck, and to unluck of someone else ..." in english? 'unluck' is not a real word. 15:08:20 <planetmaker> <supermop> misfortune <-- reference probably 15:20:46 <supermop> ah 15:20:51 <supermop> but that was yesterday 15:21:49 <planetmaker> IRC is not necessarily concurrent conversation ;-) 15:22:41 <supermop> i mean, no need to thank me 15:22:44 <planetmaker> or real-time is the better word than concurrent 15:25:42 *** canis85 [~bbabcock@69.164.216.34] has left #openttd [] 15:27:01 <supermop> brought my .psd file into work today 15:27:31 <planetmaker> bad boy. Good boy. Depends on view, I guess ;-) 15:32:54 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 15:36:09 *** aber [~Adium@p5085D57B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:36:32 <supermop> realized that the modules on rear of the shaft will never be seen, which lets me cut out 25% of the possible variations i need to plan for 15:40:01 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 15:47:42 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-123-227.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:08:42 *** MinchinWeb [~6d095ff6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 16:14:38 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC217C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 16:26:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6BE5E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:29:00 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:04 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffdf3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:35:31 *** robotx [~robotx@141-70-75-133.user.wh-stuttgart.de] has joined #openttd 16:36:08 *** robotx [~robotx@141-70-75-133.user.wh-stuttgart.de] has quit [] 16:36:12 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 16:41:20 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-091-220.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:41:27 <flitz> hi 16:41:37 <planetmaker> hi flitz 16:41:56 <flitz> i've got a question :) 16:42:08 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-074-195-135.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:42:25 <planetmaker> @topic get -3 16:42:25 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask 16:42:28 <planetmaker> ;-) 16:43:06 <XeryusTC> planetmaker: that is not asking to ask ;) 16:43:20 <supermop> its "telling to ask" 16:43:26 <supermop> or maybe warning 16:43:38 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:43:48 <flitz> I've added a boolean value to the group struct but I can't get it to be set false by default. I set it false in the constructor and set it also false in the CmdCreateGroup function, but whatever, a newly created group in the game will have this bool set to 1 16:43:51 <planetmaker> "lo and behold: incoming question. Take cover. Now!"? 16:44:07 <XeryusTC> yes :P 16:44:22 <flitz> so, question: how ? 16:44:26 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e061cc4.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:44:32 <SmatZ> flitz: set a data breakpoint in gdb 16:44:53 <SmatZ> but I think you are doing something wrongly 16:45:10 <SmatZ> like, the variable is "false", but you are reading it incorrectly 16:45:28 <SmatZ> but you for some reason think it's "true", but it's in fact false 16:45:36 <SmatZ> eg., error in measurement technique 16:45:56 <flitz> well, writing this->mybool=false; in the constructor and I test it by printf("%d\n",mybool); and wait for it to output 0 ;) 16:46:34 <SmatZ> can you upload the diff to trunk somewhere? 16:46:50 <SmatZ> (prefer this->mybool) 16:47:02 <SmatZ> or you might be reading some other (local) mybool 16:47:07 <flitz> hm, its a whole lot of stuff regarding the template replacement 16:48:28 <flitz> i've also written a function that takes a group_id and sets this bool regarding this id. when I call this function from the CmdCreateGroup(...) its not working, but when I call it from elsewhere it does 16:48:54 <flitz> I also checked and it is always called for the right groupid 16:49:16 <flitz> my assumption was that I didn't know of some routine that gets called when a new group is created or something like that 16:49:38 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 16:50:06 <planetmaker> <SmatZ> can you upload the diff to trunk somewhere? <-- ;-) or all discussion about what you do as opposed to intending to do is quite crystal ball reading 16:50:10 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:11 *** lasershock` [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 16:59:34 <flitz> or all discussion about what you do as opposed to intending to do is quite crystal ball reading <-- I pretty much told you everything I do, its one single line in the constructor basically ;) 17:00:34 <flitz> upon group creation, the bool is set false as intented, but it is changed without me interfering somehow until a vehicle in this group arrives in the next depot, that is what is puzzling me, because I didn't change a thing about this 17:00:42 <frosch123> all pool items are zero-initialised 17:00:51 <frosch123> so you do not even need the stuff in the constructor 17:01:04 <SmatZ> planetmaker: hehe, yeah :) 17:04:54 <SmatZ> flitz: try setting the data breakpoint, you are probably doing something wrong 17:08:52 *** murr4y [~murray@101.84-48-68.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 17:10:10 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 17:22:03 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:22:06 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:25:27 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 17:25:34 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [] 17:27:22 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has left #openttd [] 17:27:44 <supermop> ok time to get lunch 17:27:52 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 17:29:15 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 17:30:16 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EECE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:32:14 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EECE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 17:33:47 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:33:48 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EECE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:03:16 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EECE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:08:19 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:08:20 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 18:26:43 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-12-77.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:28:42 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 18:32:45 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-197-12.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:33:34 <dihedral> # i wonder how and i wonder why ... 18:35:50 <Belugas> # I wonder what tomorrow has ahead for me 18:35:59 <dihedral> WORK :-P 18:36:02 * dihedral hides 18:36:16 <Belugas> #or if i'm even in his mind at all 18:36:36 <dihedral> whenever i hear your music you sort of are :-P 18:36:43 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe35dc00-187.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 18:36:45 <Belugas> # sometimes i sit and gaze through sleepless dreams 18:37:18 <Belugas> hehehe 18:37:21 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 18:38:11 <dihedral> http://www.autoevolution.com/images/news/ac-schnitzer-touches-the-mini-countryman-30412_1.jpg <- oh yeah :-) 18:38:35 <dihedral> nice "little" car :-) 18:41:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i drove a mini for a week, it's totally bad... 18:43:26 <supermop> i don't like the new ones 18:44:34 <supermop> they feel so 'big' in the handling 18:45:09 <supermop> i wonder if the 1-series feels the same 18:45:15 <Eddi|zuHause> the windshield is tiny... if you have any kind of comfortable seating position, you can't see any traffic lights 18:45:34 <supermop> also the gearbox felt too sloppy 18:45:46 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, it's not a mini mini 18:46:01 <dihedral> it's the countryman :-) 18:46:08 <supermop> i'd prefer a real mini, not these bloated new ones 18:46:13 <dihedral> i have my testdrive on monday 18:46:23 <supermop> and definately not an suv 18:46:49 <dihedral> cannot fit people on the backsears in the mini cooper 18:46:51 <supermop> although i havent driven the suv 18:47:20 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: i don't see how making a scaled up version of the same design changes the relative size of the windshield compared to the rest of the car... 18:48:33 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: in case you have missed some geometry lessons: if you just scale up the size, it doesn't change any angles. 18:48:49 <dihedral> :-P 18:50:09 <dihedral> i'll see on monday 18:50:13 <supermop> eddi, what do you drive? 18:50:41 <Eddi|zuHause> a renault 19 most of the time... 18:50:45 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-95-8.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 18:51:00 <dihedral> i do not think they just scaled the model upwards 18:51:57 <dihedral> even if they did - the seating position of the driver does not scale the same way due to some limitations of the human body :-P 18:52:32 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: i still have my doubts... 18:54:36 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-074-195-135.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:56:19 *** Chris_Booth_ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:58:46 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:58 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 19:00:11 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:01:49 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:02:01 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 19:05:00 <Eddi|zuHause> cycles_found = this->EliminateCycles(path, node, node) || cycles_found; <-- am i wrong or can this be shortened to cycles_found |= this->EliminateCycles(path, node, node);? 19:05:03 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 19:05:28 <SmatZ> yes 19:05:42 <__ln__> eddi is wrong or it can be shortened? 19:05:56 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... may be dangerous, if one expects side effects of the function 19:05:58 <SmatZ> yes 19:06:16 <SmatZ> in both cases the function will be called 19:06:32 <dihedral> method 19:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> sure? even if it is already true? 19:06:46 <SmatZ> yes 19:07:02 <Eddi|zuHause> if you say so... i don't know these details... 19:07:03 <SmatZ> only && and || have "quick exit" semantics 19:07:53 <dihedral> |= == || ? 19:08:13 <SmatZ> not at all 19:08:20 <dihedral> i would have expected |= to be bitwise 19:08:28 <dihedral> and || to be an OR 19:08:29 <SmatZ> |= is bitwise 19:08:37 <SmatZ> but it's a boolean 19:08:47 <SmatZ> maybe :) 19:08:50 <dihedral> does not have to be 19:09:26 <SmatZ> true 19:09:36 <SmatZ> it will make cycles_found == {0, 1} 19:09:57 <dihedral> and cycles_found = resets the value of the var, and does not simply OR it 19:10:25 <dihedral> e.g. if the method returns 5 ? 19:10:34 <dihedral> c/c++ would probably complain 19:10:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the variable is bool, yes 19:10:39 <dihedral> other lanugages might now 19:10:40 <dihedral> *not 19:10:46 <dihedral> ok 19:10:47 <dihedral> :-P 19:10:55 <SmatZ> if it's a boo, it doesn't really matter 19:11:02 <SmatZ> booo :P 19:14:37 <planetmaker> to boo or not to boo? 19:15:51 <dihedral> :-P 19:17:20 <MinchinWeb> does anyone have experience with NoAI? 19:17:57 <Eddi|zuHause> no. 19:18:05 <Eddi|zuHause> @topic get -3 19:18:05 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Don't ask to ask, just ask 19:18:43 <dihedral> No "AI" don't :-P 19:19:01 <MinchinWeb> very good :) 19:19:21 <MinchinWeb> that's too bad - the update to 1.1 seems to make it so the AI can't get a list of available bridges 19:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause> there have been lots of changes to AIList 19:21:48 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:21:51 <MinchinWeb> but breaking bridges is rather a pain 19:22:06 <MinchinWeb> especially when it worked before 19:22:32 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EECE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:22:35 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you want to show us the code that does not work, instead of bitching around abstractly... 19:22:55 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the AI forum may help you. 19:24:23 <MinchinWeb> sure is there a pastebin somewhere on the site? 19:25:55 <dihedral> pastebin.com will do 19:26:01 <dihedral> or .ca or .org or ... 19:27:48 <MinchinWeb> save this as info.nut http://pastebin.com/wrhA5YVy 19:29:26 *** xvd [~xvd@nova.netitwork.net] has joined #openttd 19:29:28 <MinchinWeb> save as main.nut http://pastebin.com/kJQ2szTQ 19:29:51 <MinchinWeb> it will be listed as 'WmBasic' under the AI menu 19:30:07 <xvd> I am using openttd 1.1.0, and it seems the option to allow mammoth trains is gone - followed by the inability to create trains longer than the normal amount (10-15) 19:30:32 <dihedral> xvd, it changed, yes 19:30:47 <dihedral> iirc it's a variable setting though 19:31:02 <dihedral> have a look in your openttd.cfg, you'll probably find something suitable :-P 19:31:33 <V453000> afaik there is a max train length in the actual gui?? 19:31:56 <xvd> yes, openttd.cfg still has mammoth_trains=true from earlier on - it's like it disappeared from the gui 19:32:13 <SmatZ> @commit 22004 19:32:13 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by rubidium :: r22004 /trunk/src (newgrf.cpp table/settings.h) (2011-02-06 21:31:33 UTC) 19:32:15 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Change [FS#4471]: always report mammoth trains are disabled to NewGRFs, and allow the maximum train length to be modified in multiplayer as well 19:32:19 <dihedral> have a look for _other_ entries in the config 19:32:28 <SmatZ> xvd: openttd.cfg never looses invalid settings 19:32:38 <xvd> hm newgrf 19:32:40 <SmatZ> so they are preserved when you use different openttd versions 19:32:51 <dihedral> MinchinWeb, so you are talking about line 35 of your main.nut ;-) 19:33:05 <xvd> I have no active NewGRFs 19:33:13 <dihedral> .... 19:33:23 <SmatZ> hmm maybe that wasn't the correct commit 19:33:24 <MinchinWeb> dihedral: yeah it breaks on line 35 19:33:44 <xvd> Wait, are you saying the mammoth train feature moved to a newgrf? (Since there is a "Long vehicles v4" GRF under inactive GRFs) 19:34:05 <SmatZ> xvd: no, now you can select maximum train length instead 19:34:07 <SmatZ> in tiles 19:34:22 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: join my irc at irc.sla-company.co.cc] 19:34:23 <dihedral> xvd: mamothtrains is gone! a new setting has taken it's place 19:34:27 <dihedral> the new setting can be found in the config 19:34:31 <dihedral> have a look for it 19:34:48 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:34:51 <xvd> found it :) 19:34:57 <dihedral> congrats 19:34:59 <dihedral> :-P 19:35:16 <xvd> but there is indeed no GUI entry for max_train_length, right? 19:35:58 <SmatZ> there was one for mammoth_trains? 19:36:04 <dihedral> iirc, yes 19:36:28 <Wolf01> we could introduce a "removed settings due to cleanup" gui with ctrl+click on the advanced settings 19:36:40 <dihedral> :-D 19:37:11 <Alberth> just randomly remove one of the settings each time :p 19:40:21 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc07a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:44:32 <MinchinWeb> dihedral, they appear to have fixed a typo... lengTH but I didn't think I had a typo before... 19:45:37 <dihedral> so it's all sorted then ;-) wonderful 19:47:53 <MinchinWeb> there's a reason I took Engineering and not English... ;-) 19:48:56 <dihedral> hehe :-) 19:50:14 <Eddi|zuHause> xvd: there certainly is a gui entry 19:55:18 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-091-220.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: flitz] 19:56:11 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: ...] 20:02:46 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EECE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:03:37 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 20:12:03 <fonsinchen> Oh, there's a width parameter to GfxDrawLine now. 20:12:13 <fonsinchen> That's nice for the linkgraph overlay. 20:16:44 *** MinchinWeb_ [~MinchinWe@109.9.95.246] has joined #openttd 20:19:27 *** MinchinWeb [~6d095ff6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:20:03 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-249-166.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:25:40 *** xvd [~xvd@nova.netitwork.net] has quit [Quit: *] 20:28:53 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 20:38:04 *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 20:45:01 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:59:09 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC217C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:06:24 <planetmaker> g'night 21:06:43 <dihedral> @logs 21:06:44 <DorpsGek> dihedral: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 21:07:27 <dihedral> interesting - i restarted my router without znc being affected .. :-P 21:10:24 <SpComb> supposedly 21:11:29 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:14:27 <frosch123> night 21:14:30 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffdf3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:57 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-204-133.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:21:15 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-204-133.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 21:22:44 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:23:38 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:56 *** ar3k [~ident@ebz185.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:21 *** ar3k [~ident@ebz185.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 21:28:21 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 21:29:15 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BA98.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:38 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:40:39 *** elmz_ [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:42:39 <Wolf01> 'night 21:42:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host32-229-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:46:14 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc07a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:16 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-004-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 21:55:10 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-95-8.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:15 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-123-227.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:05:32 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:05:44 *** MinchinWeb_ [~MinchinWe@109.9.95.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:07:43 *** murr4y [~murray@101.84-48-68.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 22:18:33 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:24:17 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC217C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 22:27:30 <xQR> is there anyone willing to explain a curious guy why since 1.1.0 map downloads seem to be so much faster? how did you optimized that? or has my line just suddenly improved? :P 22:27:53 <Yexo> maps are now compressed with lzma 22:28:01 <xQR> -d btw 22:28:02 <Yexo> which makes them somewhat smaller 22:28:08 <xQR> ah i c 22:28:49 <xQR> "somewhat" lol - on our bigger server where the map usually is 2 MB the download time went down from 5 seconds to 0.5 seconds 22:29:01 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the download starts earlier, because the beginning is sent before the server finished compressing all of it 22:29:29 <xQR> ok 22:29:35 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:29:36 <xQR> well the result is amazing, i must say 22:37:58 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 22:42:24 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... when using secure.openttd.org/wiki, then in-wiki-links are broken 22:42:40 <SmatZ> don't use secure.openttd.org/wiki 22:42:57 <Yexo> hmm, that worked fine a few days ago 22:43:33 * SmatZ apologises for the non-funny remark 22:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: all links miss the /wiki part 22:44:10 <Yexo> I can see that, now idea why it's broken though 22:44:14 <Yexo> -w 22:44:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and i can't find a wiki page explaining the transparency gui 22:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... weird, if i go backwards in my cache, it seemed to have worked a few minutes ago even... 22:47:39 <xQR> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4574 <-- interesting bug 22:48:01 <xQR> when Luukland asked me whether i know that problem i told him i don't 22:48:08 <xQR> but now i just set one of my servers to have a quite huge map 22:48:17 <xQR> and tried to connect with 2 clients at the same time 22:48:20 <xQR> and i can reproduce it 22:48:26 <xQR> the second client is just thrown back to the main menu 22:48:38 <xQR> if it tries to connect while the first one is still downloading the map 22:49:18 <xQR> i guess the only reason why i haven't noticed it yet is that the map downloading is so fast now that it doesn't happen that much to have 2 people try to download the map at the same time 22:49:39 <xQR> so i still think you did a great improvement there, but ofc that issue has to be fixed :> 22:52:18 <xQR> let's see whether -d net=3 is giving some more information about what happens 22:58:18 <xQR> not really - just shows me how the second connection is coming but then closed again immediately 23:08:22 *** Chris_Booth_ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 23:11:20 *** murr4y [~murray@101.84-48-68.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 23:11:51 *** murr4y [~murray@101.84-48-68.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 23:13:49 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:13:49 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 23:22:41 *** Chris_Booth___ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 23:28:49 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:28:52 *** Chris_Booth___ is now known as Chris_Booth 23:34:56 *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:35:05 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:40:44 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:46:34 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:57:29 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:39 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]