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00:12:09 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:13:58 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.12.7.215] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 00:50:23 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:59:47 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:07:04 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76603.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:29 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:20:31 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B1047D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:20:31 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1047D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:21:07 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:21:07 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-249-166.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:30:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6BE5E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:11 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:58:17 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1047D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:58:17 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B1047D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:30 *** Yexo [~Yexo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: bye - http://dev.openttdcoop.org] 02:04:30 *** DJNekkid [~djnekkid@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: bye - http://www.openttdcoop.org] 02:04:35 *** xQR [xor@the.x-base.org] has quit [Quit: www.x-base.org] 02:05:01 *** Yexo- [~Yexo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 02:05:02 *** xQR [xor@the.x-base.org] has joined #openttd 02:05:08 *** guru3_ [~guru3@81-235-164-123-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 02:05:28 *** DJ_Nekkid [~djnekkid@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 02:05:29 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1047D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:05:35 *** DJ_Nekkid is now known as DJNekkid 02:05:58 *** guru3 [~guru3@81-235-164-123-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08:40 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B1047D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:25:58 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-250-003.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:29 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-204-133.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:53:01 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c14f:83d9:8f6d:42d2] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:59:44 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:46:43 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 04:59:43 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 05:18:29 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 05:19:47 <Lachie> RAWR 05:19:50 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 05:22:15 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 05:23:30 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe35dc00-187.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:36:44 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:45:45 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> oxygen.oftc.net quits: tokai|mdlx, Rediz_, confound, murr4y, aber, lugo, TinoDidriksen 05:47:58 *** Netsplit over, joins: confound 05:48:54 *** murr4y [~murray@101.84-48-68.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 06:00:44 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:00:59 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 06:02:36 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 06:02:36 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-12-77.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:02:36 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has joined #openttd 06:02:36 *** lugo [lugo@89.238.177.145] has joined #openttd 06:02:36 *** Rediz_ [~arstilj1@leka.hut.fi] has joined #openttd 06:04:20 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:12:00 <Rubidium> Yexo / xQR: the LZMA compression doesn't make much of an impact; I've tweaked it to create slightly smaller saves (~5 - 10%), taking the same time (~-5 - +5%) than zlib. The major change is, as SmatZ already said, the fact that the saves are now sent immediately when the first packet worth of compressed savegame is complete, instead of writing + flushing it to disk and then reading it from disk. 06:13:26 <SmatZ> I am not sure it was me who said that, but it's true :) 06:16:11 <Rubidium> the other thing (being kicked during join) is annoying as, as usual, it *only* gets reported after the stable has been released instead of the 3+ months of betas and release candidates meant to root out these kinds of issues 06:16:40 <Rubidium> SmatZ: then I have to booh my slow network updates 06:17:36 <Rubidium> reading IRC backlogs over badly behaving VNC connections isn't fun when the nick doesn't correspond with what is said 06:18:08 <SmatZ> :) 06:24:44 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e061cc4.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:29:03 <peter1138> VNC? Don't you use SSH for such things...? 06:30:14 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:30:27 <Rubidium> yeah, I would be... if I were to access my server over ssh from here 06:33:18 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-004-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 06:34:21 <Terkhen> good morning 06:37:22 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:41:10 *** Dommoe [~Dommoe@41.14.38.153] has joined #openttd 06:41:11 <Dommoe> ? 06:41:41 <Dommoe> Hi everyone. I just started playing OpenTTD yesterday. 06:42:02 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> oxygen.oftc.net quits: lugo, TinoDidriksen, tokai|mdlx, Rediz_ 06:42:07 <Dommoe> Struggling to get airplanes to transport valuables. How do I refit them to do that? 06:43:43 *** Dommoe [~Dommoe@41.14.38.153] has left #openttd [] 06:45:53 *** Netsplit over, joins: tokai|mdlx, TinoDidriksen, lugo, Rediz_ 06:51:52 <dihedral> good morning 06:53:36 <dihedral> <Rubidium> [07 Apr 2011 - 08:17:36] reading IRC backlogs over badly behaving VNC connections isn't fun when the nick doesn't correspond with what is said <- ZNC FTW :-P 07:01:43 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:08:14 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5B42.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:15:30 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 07:29:24 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-169-105.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 07:44:02 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 07:45:56 *** Lokimaros [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 07:47:34 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:49:19 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:50:05 *** Lokimaros is now known as Mazur 08:04:43 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 08:05:03 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 08:09:34 *** ar3k [~ident@ecz44.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 08:12:12 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:30 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebz185.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:39:57 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:43:57 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44:43 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:46:55 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:56:07 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:02:38 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-225-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 09:06:50 <flitz> hi, the autoreplace_cmd.cpp has a function 'static inline CmdMoveVehicle(...)', what do I need to do to call this function in another .cpp file ? 09:08:14 <flitz> i defined it in autoreplace_func.h and included autoreplace_func.h in my own .cpp file, but when calling the function I get a linker error 09:08:57 <TinoDidriksen> ...why is that both static and inline? Anyway, easiest would be to move it to a header and remove static. 09:11:59 <Terkhen> flitz: functions starting with Cmd are commands, they are intended to be called using DoCommand(...), not directly 09:12:27 <flitz> hm, making it non-static and non-inline is the only thing that makes it work directly 09:12:35 <Terkhen> search for CMD_MOVE_VEHICLE to see an example 09:12:48 <flitz> Terkhen: I know, but it didn't find any move command for this particular function 09:12:52 <flitz> this was the first thing i did 09:14:19 <planetmaker> usually a grep -Ri "whateverfunctioname" src/* works wonders ;-) 09:14:58 <flitz> I used kate's search function in this case, it didn't find anything for CmdMoveVehicle but a direct call to it from the same .cpp file 09:16:14 <flitz> CommandCost res = CmdMoveVehicle(append, last_engine, DC_EXEC, false); <--- one of the direct calls to this function 09:16:21 <flitz> it is never called via DoCommand 09:16:49 <flitz> so maybe I should set it up in the _command_proc_table and use it that way ? 09:16:55 <planetmaker> DoCommand uses function references 09:17:04 <flitz> i know 09:17:12 <flitz> there is no reference to this particular function 09:17:59 <planetmaker> seems only be called in autoreplace... 09:18:06 <flitz> yes 09:18:21 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76299.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:18:37 <Terkhen> strange 09:19:26 <flitz> I just set it up in the _command_proc_table, this should work 09:19:59 <flitz> I just thought I could call it from another .cpp directly, also, but this would require to remove static and inline from it 09:22:25 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:25:30 <planetmaker> in the depot_gui.cpp there's a TrainDepotMoveVehicle 09:26:29 *** Ruudjah [~opera@86.93.109.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:27:06 <planetmaker> Hm.... but they're different 09:29:37 <flitz> the cmdmovevehicle seems to do just exactly what I intended 09:30:50 <flitz> ok, when I define a CommandProc CmdMoveVehicle and add an entry to the proc table I get the same linker error, so I will need to remove the static inline from this function I guess 09:32:24 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1048CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:33:16 <flitz> by the way, the signature for those command functions is always (uint, DoCommandFlag, uint, uint, char const*), right ? 09:36:14 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B1047D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:40:03 <Terkhen> yes 09:41:11 *** DayDreamer [~pouzara@80.95.101.194] has joined #openttd 09:41:23 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host32-229-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:41:28 <Wolf01> hello 09:41:49 <flitz> ok, thanks 09:41:59 <flitz> hello, wolf01 09:42:20 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 10:16:36 <Rubidium> dihedral: using VNC to connect to a computer with proper internet access to run an IRC client connected with ZNC doesn't help at all. It only makes it worse 10:19:14 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:48 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:20:49 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:21:14 <dihedral> you connect to znc with every computer :-P 10:21:18 <dihedral> or even with mibbit ^^ 10:23:14 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:34:52 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 10:34:55 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 11:04:47 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.12.7.215] has joined #openttd 11:05:09 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 11:05:31 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 11:08:50 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d0867bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:11:44 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 11:22:53 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-169-105.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [] 11:33:45 *** alluke [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:40:19 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has joined #openttd 11:41:22 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:18 *** alluke [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:50:31 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:50:49 * andythenorth somewhat wishes SAC hadn't just lifted graphics from my sets 11:51:01 <andythenorth> even if it's only a mockup :| 11:51:03 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=30188&start=1520 11:52:24 <Eddi|zuHause> SAC has "lifted" graphics from all over the place the entire time.. 11:53:12 <Ammler> as long as she doesn't release, you can't do much :-( 11:53:45 <Chrill> she's always said she's not relasing anything until she's created all sprites for herself, no? 11:53:55 <Chrill> So even if she's just "borrowing", she wouldn't release it as her own 11:54:00 <andythenorth> I would be less grumpy about it if it wasn't (A) GPL 11:54:12 <andythenorth> and (B) she was less than complementary about my work previously 11:54:27 <andythenorth> and (C) it's seen as 'bad' if people lift SAC's work 11:54:39 <andythenorth> meh 11:54:41 <andythenorth> no dramas 11:54:48 <Chrill> you cant really lift her work, since you'd have to copy it from her screens :P 11:55:04 <Ammler> andythenorth: it's a women, should be excuse enough ;-) 11:55:10 <andythenorth> umm 11:55:18 <Chrill> i dont see how a gender changes anything :P 11:55:19 * andythenorth knows about womans 11:55:24 * andythenorth is with Chrill 11:55:28 <andythenorth> Chrill: +1 11:55:32 <Ammler> :-) 11:56:02 <Chrill> to be honest, SAC makes amazing graphics but people treat her like a Goddess in part for the graphics, in part for her being a her, and in part for her leaving and returning all the time 11:56:15 <Chrill> its created this.. hype 11:56:21 <andythenorth> :) 11:56:29 <planetmaker> andythenorth, don't worry. Her work is more vapour than some other even 11:56:32 *** DayDreamer [~pouzara@80.95.101.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:56:41 <andythenorth> it's all very 'deviant art' it seems to me 11:56:50 <andythenorth> anyway, the food plant does look good 11:57:33 <andythenorth> I should say something in the thread? 11:57:51 <planetmaker> depends upon your drama-attachment 11:57:57 <andythenorth> I dislike boring dramas 11:58:12 <andythenorth> interesting dramas centre on 'what is wrong with the game and why it should be fixed NOW' 11:58:20 <andythenorth> not on 'they are my pixels, you stole them' 11:58:24 <andythenorth> pixels are cheap :P 11:58:26 <planetmaker> you mean the part of the plant which looks suspiciously like the aluminum(?) plant? Or the wind millsà 11:58:52 <Ammler> andythenorth: if you think, it isn't about gender, then please speak to her how you would speak to a guy ;-) 11:58:54 <andythenorth> the aluminium plant, the forkllift, the small office building 11:59:05 <andythenorth> the offices are dante's 11:59:06 <planetmaker> he 11:59:12 <andythenorth> and there are elements of ISR, retouched by me 11:59:17 <andythenorth> all of which are GPL 11:59:21 <andythenorth> and no other license 11:59:41 <andythenorth> the chimneys are mph and the crates benk 11:59:49 <andythenorth> and I think they are 'public domain' 12:00:02 <Ammler> but I fear, then she leaves again tt-forums... 12:00:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth, keep quiet and use it later to GPL her newgrf ;-) 12:00:21 <andythenorth> g*orge may use my stuff in ECS by private arrangement, but not other GPL works 12:00:32 <andythenorth> ach 12:00:34 <andythenorth> back to work 12:02:06 <Ammler> well, george could change his license too, he uses mostly community stuff anyway 12:02:19 <andythenorth> ask him :P 12:02:30 <andythenorth> and after that, maybe speak with oztrans :P 12:02:33 <Ammler> oh, I tried, not just me :-P 12:03:36 <Ammler> oztrans leaves in a strange country, no hope from such peopel ;-) 12:04:15 <Ammler> lives* 12:07:31 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 12:08:56 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba946e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:09:21 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:09:30 <Markavian> rufffty! 12:09:35 <andythenorth> indeed 12:09:41 <Markavian> wrong channel ;___; 12:09:53 <Markavian> anyway, hope you're feeling good openttd 12:14:43 <Ammler> which is the "right" channel? 12:16:05 <Terkhen> probably #rufffty 12:25:10 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:51 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-097-225-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: flitz] 12:29:19 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: join my irc at irc.sla-company.co.cc] 12:29:30 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 12:29:44 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 12:46:30 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 12:51:09 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 12:53:22 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:8565:2713:7128:2f5] has joined #openttd 12:53:25 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:58:18 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 13:06:39 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:06:50 <Belugas> hello 13:14:43 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:14:58 <Wolf01> hello Belugas 13:19:41 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 13:20:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6AFE3.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:25:11 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:29:25 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:31:14 <fonsinchen> btw, Eddi, I'm on IRC ... 13:32:22 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 13:32:51 <Lachie> I'm also on IRC, Eddi|zuHause, just to let you know. 13:33:29 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: yes, occasionally... whenever i checked in the past days, you weren't ;) 13:33:49 <fonsinchen> sorry, I was busy 13:34:29 <Eddi|zuHause> and to answer your question: yes, the feature is fairly new 13:34:44 <fonsinchen> I think we should move parts of Vehicle::CanLeaveWithCargo to som Order::CanLeaveWithCargo 13:34:53 <Eddi|zuHause> it was introduce to allow "timetabled wait times" 13:35:33 <Eddi|zuHause> previously, "no loading" and "no unloading" couldn't be selected at the same time 13:36:14 <fonsinchen> I'm pretty sure last_loading_station is set unconditionally somewhere where it should only be set if the vehicle can load or unload. 13:37:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6AFE3.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:38:35 <Eddi|zuHause> it's incredibly useful to make a freight train wait at an intermediate stop, to let passenger trains overtake 13:39:04 <fonsinchen> it's in Vehicle::LeaveStation 13:39:16 *** Yexo- is now known as Yexo 13:39:19 <fonsinchen> there we use CanLeaveWithCargo to determine if we set last_loading_station 13:39:33 <fonsinchen> However, in our case, of course the vehicle can leave with cargo 13:40:00 <fonsinchen> but the non-loading, non-unloading stop is still not the last stopping station then. 13:40:12 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: it essentially works like a waypoint 13:40:21 <Eddi|zuHause> except it can have a wait time 13:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist should treat it like that 13:40:32 <fonsinchen> s/stopping/loading/ 13:40:43 <fonsinchen> I'll fix that. 13:41:33 <Eddi|zuHause> @commit 21961 13:41:34 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by rubidium :: r21961 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2011-02-04 16:07:42 UTC) 13:41:35 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Remove: limitation that not loading and not unloading is mutual exclusive 13:59:07 *** murr4y [~murray@101.84-48-68.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:05 *** murr4y [~murray@101.84-48-68.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 14:18:04 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED662EB.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:04 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:26:09 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:28:50 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 14:34:26 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:36:40 <fonsinchen> The deleting and adding of links on creation and removal of orders would be incredibly complicated as it's hard to find out what cargo a vehicle belonging to some order is transporting. 14:38:07 <fonsinchen> Vehicles might be refitted or you might add vehicles with different cargo to the same order list and such things. 14:38:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd exclude stopped vehicles 14:39:08 <fonsinchen> Stopped vehicles aren't the problem 14:39:26 <fonsinchen> but imagine an order list with multiple conditional orders which lead to different refits 14:39:27 <Eddi|zuHause> refit orders may get crazy ;) 14:40:34 <Eddi|zuHause> can you do this conservatively? i.e. if you encounter a refit order, you bail out completely and rely on actual vehicle movement? 14:41:04 <fonsinchen> Then I construct the links and you add some vehicle with different cargo later on. 14:41:18 <fonsinchen> Or you change the consist manually. 14:41:30 <fonsinchen> There are about a million ways to mess up the scheme. 14:41:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but you will be able to recalculate on vehicle start/stop or order change 14:42:01 <fonsinchen> You don't have to change the orders to change the cargo 14:42:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but cargo changes may only appear in a depot 14:44:49 <fonsinchen> Actually I was thinking about counting the order lists a link is referring to in order to easily determine when it can be removed. But I guess this won't work now. 14:45:10 <fonsinchen> Nasty. 14:46:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i see... has cargodest actually managed these things? 14:47:14 <fonsinchen> I don't know. 14:47:25 <fonsinchen> Maybe I should check how they did it. 14:47:31 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodest was purely order based 14:49:33 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:50:39 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 14:59:26 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:06:14 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:07:25 *** alluke [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 15:08:38 <fonsinchen> Cargodest ignores all the refitting and adding/removig of vehicles to existing order lists :( 15:09:19 <planetmaker> well, it was never finished ;-) 15:09:22 <fonsinchen> It just takes the cargos for all vehicles with shared orders once, when the order list is modified and takes that as absolute. 15:09:42 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 15:10:04 <fonsinchen> It wasn't. The problem is, I can't use the algorithm like this. 15:13:35 <Eddi|zuHause> that's unfortunate 15:13:36 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED662EB.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:14:51 <Eddi|zuHause> if the conditional orders are undeterministic, you could scan the order list for refit orders, and create links for all cargos there. 15:15:38 <fonsinchen> Usually you do automatic refits to have only parts of the order list being executed with some cargo and other parts with some other. 15:16:05 <Eddi|zuHause> so you have different decision path depending on "simple/deterministic" order lists and "undeterministic" order lists with and without refit orders 15:16:14 <fonsinchen> So you'd get LOTS of links you don't want like this and lots of cargo waiting for links that don't actually exist. 15:16:46 <fonsinchen> Now there is an additional catch. You might only refit part of the consist. 15:16:56 <fonsinchen> and then refit another part and some other point 15:17:20 <fonsinchen> and I'd have to keep track of that in order to determine what the consist will look like at what point 15:17:30 <fonsinchen> and that might be ultimately undecidable. 15:18:19 <fonsinchen> You might start the order list with some ridiculous condition like "needs service" and based on that refit to something or not. 15:18:41 <fonsinchen> Then you just never go back to the first orders (using unconditional jumps). 15:18:56 <fonsinchen> And I cannot tell what the consist will look like at later refits 15:19:05 <fonsinchen> WHAT A MESS! 15:21:01 *** ZirconiumX [521f58c1@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 15:21:02 <Eddi|zuHause> imagine a train with mixed open wagons and closed wagons, factory/mine -ore/goods-> steel mill/town -> steel/goods -> loop back 15:21:10 *** xvd [~xvd@nova.netitwork.net] has joined #openttd 15:21:22 <ZirconiumX> Hello all 15:21:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be almost indeterminable that on the refit order to convert from ore to steel, you cannot change the closed wagons 15:22:36 <Eddi|zuHause> so instead of a "homogenic" stell train, you get a steel/goods train 15:22:50 <Eddi|zuHause> even though goods never appear in a refit order 15:23:52 <xvd> Of all the downloadable AIs, what is a recommended one? 15:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> xvd: there is no "recommended" AI 15:24:21 <fonsinchen> So there is exactly no way to do it like this. We need a new idea. 15:25:16 <ZirconiumX> I say go for AroAI - but then again - I'm biased to it as I'm a dev of it 15:25:18 <Eddi|zuHause> are refit orders actually that common to worry about the additional links? 15:26:12 <Eddi|zuHause> xvd: the only recommendation is that you don't use two opponents with the same AI 15:26:58 <xvd> Why that? 15:27:28 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 15:27:44 <Terkhen> they tend to build the same lines 15:27:56 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BDE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:27:59 <xvd> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=133858 15:28:03 <xvd> yeah I see. Hm. 15:28:27 <xvd> the classic TTD AI was diverse enough to not limit itself to one type of transportation . DOes something like that exist? 15:28:34 <Terkhen> yes 15:28:43 <ZirconiumX> NoCAB 15:28:49 <ZirconiumX> or AdmiralAI 15:28:54 <ZirconiumX> or AIAI 15:29:08 <ZirconiumX> are the ones of the top of my head 15:29:35 <Yexo> also SimpleAI 15:29:54 <xvd> sounds like a plan, I will research. 15:30:24 <ZirconiumX> Try SimpleAI - It's *most* like the original AI 15:34:01 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 15:35:39 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:35:43 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:39:31 <fonsinchen> Let's just forget about creating and deleting links based on orders. 15:39:57 <fonsinchen> I can set a fixed timeout for links to make things clearer. 15:40:22 <fonsinchen> If a link wasn't visited in 2 months it disappears. 15:40:28 <fonsinchen> Something like this. 15:40:40 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-65-66.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 15:40:51 <fonsinchen> Although I like the timeout based on distance thing. 15:42:37 <supermop> longer links persist longer? 15:42:55 <fonsinchen> well, longer links and links with more capacity. 15:43:04 <supermop> neat 15:43:16 <fonsinchen> The capacity thing is sort of a problem. 15:44:41 <fonsinchen> A timeout based on length but not on capacity might be good. 15:46:42 *** Westie [~westie@raptor.typefish.co.uk] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 15:46:51 <fonsinchen> Instead of the freezing I'd just never let the link drop to 0 before its timeout hits. A vehicle loading for some link resets the timeout on each loading turn. 15:47:00 <fonsinchen> Then I don't even have to drag around more data. 15:48:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r22297 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix [FS#4580]: the 'freeform edges' setting could be enabled when there were buoys on the northern border (adf88) 15:51:22 *** Westie [~westie@raptor.typefish.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:53:04 *** murr4y [~murray@101.84-48-68.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 15:58:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r22298 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Change: allow enabling 'freeform edges' setting when there is only station label above one of northern tiles 15:59:18 <alluke> hi lakie 15:59:46 <Lakie> Hello alluke 15:59:52 *** Jerre [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:00:02 <alluke> hows the set doing 16:00:24 <Lakie> Slowly 16:00:41 <alluke> :/ 16:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause> <fonsinchen> well, longer links and links with more capacity. <-- the thing is, the higher the capacity, the earlier you should be able to detect a significant capacity drop 16:00:56 *** ZirconiumX [521f58c1@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 16:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so low capacity links should stay longer, high capacity links should decay fast 16:01:18 <fonsinchen> capacity drops logarithmically 16:01:35 <fonsinchen> it's a moving average 16:01:52 <fonsinchen> and the function is designed specifically like this. 16:02:21 <fonsinchen> But in fact the timeout shouldn't depend on the capacity. That's the problem with the current implementation, isn't it? 16:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, kinda 16:02:54 <fonsinchen> And it's easy to solve 16:03:31 <fonsinchen> without considering all the strange effects of conditional refits and stuff like that. 16:03:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the timeout should probably depend on average vehicle speed or something 16:03:52 <fonsinchen> Why? 16:04:08 <fonsinchen> The speed doesn't really tell you how often the link is visited. 16:04:29 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:04:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6AFE3.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:04:59 <planetmaker> travel time surely has an influence there? For a link established by one fast or one slow vehicle? 16:05:03 <fonsinchen> In order to make a real measurement you'd have to measure number of vehicles visiting the link, speed, time spent with other orders, route they're going for the link and a bazillion other things. 16:05:18 <fonsinchen> It's about the same as with the orders. 16:05:58 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 16:06:25 <fonsinchen> Observation shows that long links are more likely to be served with fewer and larger vehicles while short links are served with more and smaller ones. 16:06:47 <fonsinchen> Consequently I made long links time out more slowly and short links more quickly. 16:06:55 <fonsinchen> I still think this is reasonable. 16:07:44 <fonsinchen> I gotta leave now. 16:07:47 <fonsinchen> Bye 16:14:21 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:14:45 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 16:14:46 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fcbdd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:15:54 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba946e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:17:37 *** LordAro [~kvirc@host217-43-107-12.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:20:59 <LordAro> moin all 16:22:55 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EE4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:23:15 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:30:27 *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-65-66.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:31:20 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:19 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-65-66.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:38:19 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:44:37 *** alluke [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:56:21 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:25:34 *** murr4y [~murray@101.84-48-68.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 17:34:08 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:34:11 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:38:32 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has joined #openttd 17:39:19 <supermop> hello andy 17:39:32 <andythenorth> hello 17:40:07 <supermop> what is your work flow like? i just set myself back a few days on this nakagin builfing i am working on by messing up my only copy of the .psd 17:40:24 <andythenorth> supermop: did we discuss using version control? 17:40:28 <andythenorth> or was that with dante? 17:40:50 <supermop> maybe with me for sets, sounds familiar 17:40:52 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:41:06 <andythenorth> you should at minimum use version control 17:41:20 <andythenorth> and if you do, you might as well use the openttdcoop repository service 17:41:21 <supermop> i need to organize the way i use CS5 in general, 17:41:27 <andythenorth> for remote copy of your repo 17:41:37 <andythenorth> what OS do you have 17:41:38 <supermop> as i am also redoing my portfolio, an making an online portfolio 17:41:38 <andythenorth> ? 17:41:42 <supermop> windows 7 17:42:08 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... somehow my income drastically dropped over the last 2 years 17:42:14 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fcbdd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:17 <Eddi|zuHause> like, halved.... 17:42:21 <andythenorth> supermop: :( 17:42:30 <supermop> i am an architect, but in terms of portfolio stuff, most of the work i am doing at home lately is graphical 17:42:38 <supermop> i like 7, its nice 17:42:42 <supermop> and runs rhino 17:44:04 <supermop> but something to control rendered images, photos, scans, cad drawings, models etc 17:44:30 <supermop> and then out put as well: pdfs, webpages, eps files 17:44:54 <supermop> i could have a parallel system for ottd work, 17:46:35 <supermop> so does hat you suggest not work on 7? 17:46:39 <supermop> *what 17:46:52 <supermop> eddi: in ottd or real life? 17:47:44 <andythenorth> supermop: the windows :( is only because I can't help you install version control on windows 17:47:50 <andythenorth> I would have a look at this http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/WindowsInstall 17:48:06 <andythenorth> most of us seem to prefer hg, although git is good for binary files like psds 17:48:13 <andythenorth> (hg is mercurial) 17:48:50 <supermop> hg is for code? 17:51:09 <andythenorth> and other files 17:51:12 <supermop> are you a graphic designer by trade by the way? 17:51:15 <andythenorth> no 17:51:25 <andythenorth> I use hg for all my projects 17:51:43 <supermop> in addition to ottd? 17:52:23 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: join my irc at irc.sla-company.co.cc] 17:53:49 *** Jerre [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:55:22 <Eddi|zuHause> loading indicators look weird when two trams are loading at one place with "quantum effects"... 17:55:44 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 17:56:23 <supermop> version control would keep all old versions of files? 17:58:53 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 17:59:09 <yorick> has anyone ever tried converting big screenshots into google maps tiles? 17:59:47 <supermop> you would have to correct the projection 17:59:51 <Yexo> supermop: yes, or rather all old versions you want to save 18:00:24 <Yexo> yorick: not as far as I know, although there have been some projects that allowed to view screenshots of a running game in a browser 18:00:35 <Yexo> even allowing scrolling by letting the server make a new screenshot every time 18:00:48 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 18:01:47 <andythenorth> supermop: I use hg for all openttd projects 18:01:59 <andythenorth> for work, sometimes people I employ make me use svn :( 18:02:01 <andythenorth> svn sucks 18:03:45 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I found it's more fun with loading indicators turned off 18:03:51 <yorick> Yexo: do you have any links to them? 18:04:01 <Yexo> sorry, no 18:04:05 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause I am heading back towards a more vanilla way of playing 18:06:09 * andythenorth ponders 18:06:19 <andythenorth> Yexo: where did newairports branch get stuck? 18:06:25 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... comparing to (slow) nutracks, roads are really expensive 18:06:35 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: roadtypes? 18:06:40 <Yexo> 1. having a good way to determine when an aircraft is on the ground 18:06:56 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: we could just work on one bit at a time until it's done... 18:07:04 <Yexo> and a few other things, which I forgot because it has been too long ago I worked seriously on it 18:07:26 <Yexo> although I did sync the branch with trunk yesterday 18:07:30 <andythenorth> is it an 'all or nothing' kind of patch? 18:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: adding a property for price and speed should be easy ;) 18:07:50 <Yexo> <andythenorth> is it an 'all or nothing' kind of patch? <- newairports or roadtypes? 18:07:55 <andythenorth> newairports 18:08:06 <Yexo> not really, several things are already in 1.1 18:08:15 <Yexo> such as custom airport tiles 18:08:15 <andythenorth> roadtypes is pretty much 'all or nothing' is my opinion ;) 18:08:19 <Yexo> and some airport action0 properties 18:08:29 <Yexo> and lot's of refactoring in the code 18:08:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: SpComb had a "pngtile" project 18:09:43 <andythenorth> Yexo: is it understood how newairports might relate to 'newdocks' ? 18:09:51 <andythenorth> or newports or whatever 18:10:04 <Yexo> not really 18:10:40 <andythenorth> hmm 18:11:54 * andythenorth is too good at inventing new work to do 18:12:03 <supermop> indeed 18:12:08 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba946e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:12:13 <andythenorth> supermop: do you have version control yet? ;) 18:12:20 <supermop> seems each day i see you here you suggest something new 18:12:26 <supermop> i am at work 18:12:30 <andythenorth> or something suggested n times before 18:12:34 <supermop> (on a mbp) 18:12:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i think all "newseaports" need is a list of entry-points for the pathfinder 18:12:48 <andythenorth> supermop: you should install hg on the mbp and take it home 18:13:01 <Eddi|zuHause> everything else (paths, loading bays) should work like airports 18:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause> what's really complicated is extending the state machines for articulated road vehicles 18:13:37 <Yexo> indeed 18:13:39 <supermop> the thing is, all this mbp is used for is a browser and a java app 18:13:43 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that might not be necessary 18:13:53 <andythenorth> supermop: it doesn't have photoshop on it? 18:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it is. 18:14:01 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: why? 18:14:06 <supermop> this one doesn't 18:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> because. 18:14:10 <supermop> the imac does 18:14:20 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause it's not necessary to remove all restrictions :D 18:14:20 <supermop> which i am not sitting at right now 18:14:35 <andythenorth> supermop: you can't move the photoshop app to the other mac? 18:14:54 <supermop> not my decision to make 18:14:54 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: articulated vehicles at drive-thru stops only is good gameplay 18:15:05 <supermop> also i own photoshop at home 18:15:08 <andythenorth> ok 18:15:14 <Yexo> andythenorth: the problem is that the current spec has no restrictions at all for movement, which is not a problem for aircraft or ships (if it doesn't look good that's a problem of the newgrf developer), but it might be hard to implement without crashes for articulated vehicles 18:15:15 <supermop> the copy at work is not legitamate 18:15:27 <supermop> (which i had nothing to do with) 18:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but you rule out large drive-through-newroadstations that way 18:15:33 <andythenorth> I don't mind that 18:15:38 <andythenorth> I also rule out underground railways 18:15:40 <andythenorth> and weather 18:15:47 <andythenorth> well "I" don't 18:15:48 <supermop> my coworker is a huge mac fanboy, he handles all the it stuff 18:16:07 <andythenorth> supermop: "moving" photoshop is usually a matter of picking up the folder and moving it 18:16:10 <andythenorth> not always though 18:16:13 <Belugas> itoys 18:16:27 <supermop> not sure he wants me to have it on my mbp 18:16:31 <andythenorth> ho 18:16:32 <andythenorth> well ok 18:16:44 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: not every improvement is good surely? 18:16:53 <supermop> as the only case would be for me to do graphic work when i am supposed to be doing real work 18:17:11 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i want proper turning loops for my trams. and most trams are articulated. 18:17:24 <andythenorth> well...ok 18:17:26 <supermop> im with eddi on that 18:17:34 <andythenorth> perfect is the enemy of the good etc 18:17:44 <andythenorth> I want lots of ponies 18:17:56 <andythenorth> sometimes I think the PHP approach might be better :P 18:18:00 <andythenorth> do it wrong, ship, win 18:18:32 <supermop> in architecture, you are never done designing, 18:18:41 <supermop> so you present what is designed at the deadline 18:18:53 <supermop> rather than push it back repeatedly 18:19:22 <andythenorth> 'agile architecture' :P 18:19:25 <andythenorth> ship on time 18:19:34 <supermop> once you have something to present you get feedback and improve the next iteration 18:19:45 <andythenorth> how long are your iterations (in time)? 18:19:51 <supermop> depends 18:19:56 <andythenorth> no fixed cadence? 18:20:03 <supermop> in design development: hours 18:20:25 <supermop> later it might be months or weeks 18:20:25 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EE4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:21:04 <andythenorth> Yexo: articulated RVs can't overtake either 18:21:12 <andythenorth> so I'd chalk it up as a non-problem 18:22:00 <Hirundo> Because A is broken, it's no problem to have B broken as well? 18:22:22 <andythenorth> it's no problem if it's a known-unsolvable 18:22:31 <andythenorth> or it's known that no-one is interested in solving it 18:22:40 <supermop> but ultimately each project is an iteration of your philosophy 18:22:41 <andythenorth> net benefit vs. technical debt 18:22:57 <supermop> build an ok building, learn from it and build a better one next time 18:27:09 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-241-120.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:27:28 *** xvd [~xvd@nova.netitwork.net] has quit [Quit: *] 18:28:10 <supermop> how does version control affect workflow management 18:28:12 <supermop> ? 18:28:32 <andythenorth> not sure 18:28:40 <andythenorth> is there workflow management in CS 5? 18:28:44 <supermop> bridge 18:28:46 <supermop> i think 18:29:39 <andythenorth> I still use CS 1, which I won as a prize 18:29:45 <andythenorth> it has nothing clever in it 18:30:18 <andythenorth> supermop: version control works as follows: 18:30:19 <supermop> i think cs1 has bridge? 18:30:27 <supermop> or the version i had did 18:30:32 <andythenorth> brb 18:31:21 <supermop> wait no i had cs2 18:31:28 <supermop> before that i just had 7.0 18:32:42 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-12-77.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:34:47 <andythenorth> supermop: what I do is: 18:34:51 <andythenorth> - add file to version control 18:35:04 <Eddi|zuHause> something's weird, i have one source station of metal, three target stations that accept metal, and all have active links, but i get metal "to any station"... 18:35:11 <andythenorth> - save file up until such time as I want to commit a revision to version control 18:35:13 <andythenorth> - make commit 18:35:18 <andythenorth> - carry on working 18:35:45 <andythenorth> my workflow is: open file, work on file, save file, export pcx / png, close file 18:35:52 <supermop> the revisions are on a HDD, or on a server? 18:35:58 <supermop> or both? 18:36:01 <andythenorth> both 18:36:08 <andythenorth> first locally, then pushed to the server 18:36:41 <supermop> currently i work on files from my ssd, the save to an external hd when done 18:36:53 <supermop> but i feel like that isn't very safe 18:37:07 <andythenorth> it's not 18:37:11 <andythenorth> for n reasons 18:37:56 <andythenorth> http://wiki.netbeans.org/wiki/images/9/9f/StructuralDiagram_HgNetBeansSources.png 18:40:42 <andythenorth> hmm 18:40:57 <andythenorth> FIRS bug :( 18:41:10 <andythenorth> anyone want to pick holes in my production code? 18:41:25 <andythenorth> might be useful if I'm not the *only* person on the planet who understands it ;) 18:42:05 <andythenorth> for example...http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/changes/templates/template_secondary_action23_C.pnfo 18:43:26 <supermop> i want a drobo fs 18:43:51 <Hirundo> andythenorth: write your code in NML :) 18:44:06 <supermop> also i have some hosting with orudge's thing, could use that 18:44:38 <andythenorth> Hirundo: probably still holes in it :) 18:44:50 <andythenorth> unless nml makes things like proper maths possible :P 18:45:01 <planetmaker> it does... 18:45:36 <Hirundo> depends on your definition of 'proper maths', but I'd say yes 18:45:37 <andythenorth> feel free to write a migration script for FIRS to nml 18:45:50 <planetmaker> lool :-) 18:46:06 <planetmaker> that'd be nfo2nml parser 18:46:20 <andythenorth> or reimplement selected parts in nml by hand, then have make sort it out 18:47:00 * andythenorth is worried about CHIPS 18:48:15 <andythenorth> it started out beautifully simple 18:48:25 <andythenorth> and mostly has stayed that way (thanks to clever coding by yexo) 18:48:35 <andythenorth> but now I am having...ideas :| 18:48:38 <Hirundo> nfo stations aren't simple by any means 18:48:49 <supermop> indeed they are not 18:48:58 <andythenorth> this is wrt set design 18:49:05 <andythenorth> the nfo is already complex :) 18:49:22 <andythenorth> I had planned three types of PAX tile 18:49:28 <andythenorth> now I seem to be planning many more 18:49:44 <planetmaker> andythenorth: (re)implementing selected parts in NML - that *should* be possible 18:49:50 <andythenorth> I had: parcels office, booking office, concourse 18:49:55 <planetmaker> Though on a MUCH simpler scale, I'm doing that with OpenGFX 18:49:56 *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-65-66.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:50:00 <andythenorth> now I have large small versions of each, some 1 tile, some 2 tile... 18:50:26 <planetmaker> Give me some time to sort out the proper amendments to the makefile(s) 18:50:43 <andythenorth> planetmaker: don't spend time you would better spend on other things :o 18:50:51 <andythenorth> I won't be reimplementing any code 18:50:59 <andythenorth> new framework fallacy 18:51:03 <andythenorth> nml won't fix my bugs 18:51:09 <andythenorth> fixing the bugs will 18:51:13 <planetmaker> andythenorth: but I need the makefile thing for OpenGFX anyway ;-) 18:51:18 <andythenorth> ok cool 18:51:43 <planetmaker> it will look like that the pnfo files are (simply) generated from nml files 18:52:02 <planetmaker> but... deps don't yet quite work. It still requires manual updates of nml2nfo 18:53:04 <planetmaker> but I guess... with newgrfs only it might be easier than for base sets... ho hum... 18:53:12 <planetmaker> newgrfs don't need fixed sprite numbers 18:56:06 <andythenorth> CHIPS parcels office...http://tt-foundry.com/misc/parcels_office_2.png 18:57:15 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:58:23 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:05 *** Ruudjah [~opera@86.93.109.194] has joined #openttd 19:03:55 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 19:08:14 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 19:10:35 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:15:25 <supermop> wait does nml do stations yet? 19:15:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-55-222.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:15:47 <Hirundo> nope :( 19:16:16 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... there's an inconsistency: when you build a bridge, it shows the selection window first, and then checks the available money when you select, but when you ctrl+build a station, it checks the money first and then shows the selection window... 19:17:05 <Hirundo> bridge cost depends on the type of bridge, station cost does not depend on what station you join it to 19:17:53 <SmatZ> Swallow is right 19:23:25 <planetmaker> :-) 19:24:16 <SpComb> yorick: I never took a look at the gmaps API, I did my own little Javascripts bit on top of the PNG tile server 19:26:33 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 19:30:18 *** LordAro [~kvirc@host217-43-107-12.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.1 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:44:51 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:50:32 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: join my irc at irc.sla-company.co.cc] 19:52:46 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:57:13 <Nite> Hi 19:57:13 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:00 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:59:27 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:00:17 <Alberth> ni 20:03:35 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:03:58 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 20:04:02 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 20:06:01 <Nite> do nonstop orders even prevent autoorders when trains went through waypoints ? 20:11:02 <planetmaker> auto-orders only "log" where a train stops, don't they? 20:11:04 <Zuu> non-stop orders sholud prevent auto-orders. 20:11:23 <Zuu> (If you follow the logic that planetmaker posted above) 20:11:48 <planetmaker> I guess we typed concurrently :-) 20:11:54 <Zuu> non-stop prevent the trains from stoping - thuse no auto orders will be created. 20:12:25 <Zuu> planetmaker: :-) 20:14:56 <Nite> so there can never be a "nonstop auto order" (?) 20:17:47 <Alberth> trains never stop at waypoints 20:18:59 <Nite> so they are autostoporders not rly autoorders ... 20:19:00 <Alberth> so maybe whether you have autoorders for waypoints depends on how you see auto-orders 20:19:46 <Alberth> ie if you see them as points where the train passes, you should have them, if you see them as points where it stops, you should not have them 20:19:47 <Nite> ic ic 20:20:14 <Nite> so why can i set a depot order to nonstop ? is it hte same as "via" depot? 20:21:27 <Alberth> go to the depot, do not stop on the way, collect 0 20:21:35 <Alberth> oh, wrong game :) 20:22:24 <Alberth> I think you can find stations on the way to the depot, so having a non-stop order for going to the depot makes sense 20:22:37 <Nite> Alberth - it does not mather how i see them, they work as they work, wheather i lokk at them or not, unlike quantum particles 20:22:37 <Alberth> what 'via' means, no clue at all 20:22:46 <Nite> k = o 20:23:50 <Alberth> Nite: true, but my concern is that they should behave correctly, which may be different from how they behave now. For that, you need clear semantics of auto-orders 20:24:34 <Alberth> (as a separate source) 20:25:03 <Nite> iam not wondering about them autoorders anymore, i wonder why you can nonstop a depot order still ... 20:25:20 <Nite> SRY not depot order but waypoint order 20:26:06 <Nite> ok ok ok 20:26:07 <Alberth> why can there not be stations between a train and a waypoint? 20:26:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: if you have a line Station A - Station B - Waypoint - Station C 20:26:10 <Nite> nonstop to 20:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause> and if you have orders "go to Station A, go to Waypoint, go to Station C" 20:26:48 <Eddi|zuHause> then it stops at B 20:26:51 <Nite> the "to" has the weight i get it now 20:26:59 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have orders "go to Station A, go non-stop to Waypoint, go to Station C" 20:27:05 <Nite> i get it thank youu 20:27:05 <Eddi|zuHause> then it does not stop at B 20:27:24 <Nite> had quirks in my head 20:27:29 <Zuu> 'via' means that the train will not stop at the station. 20:27:42 <Zuu> Effectivly using it as a waypoint. 20:27:54 <Alberth> Nite: glad we could unquirck you :) 20:28:48 <Eddi|zuHause> bÀh this start of the month always annoys me... it makes me lose 6000... 20:28:54 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fcbdd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:28:56 <Eddi|zuHause> or more 20:29:08 <andythenorth> quirck or quak? 20:29:25 <frosch123> moin 20:29:42 <Nite> i get it again, it was "nonstop + via" what i was searching for 20:29:45 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: your flat is quite expensive 20:29:49 <Nite> without knowing 20:30:06 <Nite> 6000 what? 20:30:11 <Eddi|zuHause> why do trains stop puffing when entering a station? 20:30:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: sausages. 20:31:01 <Nite> Eddi|zuHause because they break not accelerate? 20:31:22 <Nite> brake brake brake 20:32:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: but 1 puff = 1 piston movement? 20:33:32 <Nite> is it? 20:33:51 <Nite> i guess it is only one powered piston movement 20:35:26 <Nite> btw all the sounds i ever heard coming out of ottd do not represent steamengines well (and further all sound of tto - ottd sucked ever since ...) 20:39:37 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:40:14 <Eddi|zuHause> have you tried UKRS/NARS? 20:41:13 <Nite> yes almost always use pikkas sets 20:41:22 <Nite> still the sound files loop wrong 20:41:42 <Nite> the steamengines are not "rhytmic" ... as if it woudl mather 20:42:07 <Nite> you would onyl listen to it once even if it where good, then turnit off because of annoyance 20:42:29 <Nite> so nevermind the sound, its not needed .. 20:48:13 <Nite> bridge replacing works fine now *bows* 20:51:01 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-10-131.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:55:41 <supermop> so do you guys recomment this hg thing for .psd? 20:55:55 <andythenorth> yes 20:55:59 <andythenorth> some people prefer git 20:59:02 <supermop> reading bout them now on wp 21:00:09 <planetmaker> supermop: it's a matter of personal preference. But hg... is quite easy to get by and used to. git tends to be more complex (my perception) 21:00:28 <supermop> ok 21:00:50 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e061cc4.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 21:02:26 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-004-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 21:09:48 <andythenorth> good night 21:09:49 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has left #openttd [] 21:17:25 <Terkhen> good night 21:19:05 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 21:20:15 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:20:15 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-55-222.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:27:27 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:33:21 <Zuu> Hmm, by having a truck full loaded with cargo visit a station and try to load from time to time you can keep the transported % > 0 of an industry. 21:33:49 <Zuu> Without actually loading any new cargo onto the truck. 21:34:06 <Yexo> % transported of an industry = station rating of last month, at least with only a single station 21:34:11 <Yexo> with multiple stations it's a bit more difficult 21:34:20 <Yexo> it's not actually the percentage you transport to somewhere else 21:34:51 <Zuu> And station rating is increased even if you don't load anything.. 21:35:59 <Yexo> yes 21:36:17 <Yexo> but "fixing" that leads to other problems, like when there are 3 stations competing for goods 21:36:44 <Yexo> one way to get the rating up is to always have a station loading, if you only got the rating up when there were actual goods the 3rd station would never be able to get any goods 21:37:40 <Zuu> Ok 21:38:24 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:38:32 <Zuu> It is in my case mostly a symptom on the fact that my AI don't detect when stations with towns as target don't detect when they stop to accept cargo (eg. goods) 21:39:19 <Zuu> But apparently all other AIs think my AI service it good enough to not compeete. :-) 21:39:40 <Zuu> (service of the factory) 21:51:27 <Yexo> not sure, perhaps the other AIs are checking for >0% service? 21:52:44 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-10-131.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:01:19 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:02:34 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe35dc00-187.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:02:40 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-99-42.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 22:04:37 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:19 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba946e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:06:19 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:09:02 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BDE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6AFE3.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:11 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:15 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fcbdd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:49 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d0867bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 22:27:57 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22299 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#4581]: Check the availability year of all houses, not just the NewGRF houses, when making sure that at least one is available onwards from year 0 22:40:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22300 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r22299): Missing out on a ! can have the opposite effect of what was intended 22:41:20 <__ln__> can have 22:41:30 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5B42.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 22:43:17 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 22:46:28 <Yexo> indeed, "can have", as the test case of FS#4581 was actually fixed by r22299 22:46:30 <SmatZ> fwiw, czech government has a chance to fall, and there might be (again) premature elections :-/ 22:46:48 <supermop> anyone here use monotone? 22:47:08 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED27E57.cm-7-3b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 22:48:51 <Yexo> not me 22:48:59 <Yexo> never heard of it before now 22:49:17 <supermop> just reading up on version control 22:51:38 <SmatZ> and son of our ex-minister of health has been sentenced to 2 months 22:51:52 <SmatZ> what country am I living in :-/ 22:52:22 <Yexo> at least it's not italy 22:52:28 <SmatZ> hehe :) 22:52:47 <SmatZ> (well, he was sentenced for drunk-driving, and here it means > 0.00%) 22:53:02 <SmatZ> which is silly by itself... 22:53:36 <SmatZ> he would be sentenced for more if he had 0.05%, or even 0.1%.... 22:53:37 <Yexo> 0.00 as limit is silly because you can't measure that 22:53:43 <SmatZ> yup 22:53:49 <Yexo> "no alcoholic drinks" as limit would not be silly at all 22:53:56 <SmatZ> heh 22:54:01 <Yexo> but since that can't be measured, settle for something very low 22:54:08 <SmatZ> you could then "eat" alcohol and get drunk as hell 22:54:26 <SmatZ> like, chocolate with alcohol 22:54:41 <Yexo> yes, that's why a 0.00% limit is silly 22:54:46 <SmatZ> :) 22:54:50 <SmatZ> it doesn't make sense 22:55:12 <SmatZ> actually, if you get to blood tests, and they measure <0.025%, you can't be punished 22:55:26 <SmatZ> because that's possible natural level of alcohol in blood 22:55:42 <SmatZ> but who wants to spend hours waiting for blood test and its results... 22:56:14 <__ln__> anyone who doesn't want to get punished? 22:56:28 <SmatZ> me! 22:56:40 <Yexo> 0.5 promille is the limit here 22:56:46 <SmatZ> that makes sense 22:56:54 <Yexo> for "new" drivers it's 0.2 22:57:07 <Yexo> where "new" means you have your drivers license for less than 5 years 22:57:16 <SmatZ> in germany, it's 4 years 22:57:22 <SmatZ> but still... 22:57:48 <Yexo> supposedly 0.5 promille is about 2 glasses of alcoholic drinks 22:57:52 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 22:58:34 <SmatZ> there were people punished for 0.1-0.3 promille 22:58:39 <SmatZ> from NL/GER 22:58:43 <Ruudjah> game load progressbar behaves differently in 1.1 22:58:53 <SmatZ> and they were shown as "bad esxamples" in local news :P 22:58:59 <__ln__> the size of glass and the size of person may affect just a bit 22:59:05 <Yexo> well, there they are 22:59:13 <Yexo> always know that kind of laws when you go abroad :p 22:59:14 <SmatZ> like "do you see those bad foreigners? they are drunk driving!"... what a bullshit 22:59:17 <Yexo> Ruudjah: better or worse? 22:59:32 <Ruudjah> worse 22:59:33 <Yexo> SmatZ: ok, that is overdoing it a lot 22:59:44 <Yexo> __ln__: "standard" glasses of alcohol 22:59:57 <Ruudjah> previously the loading bar reflected amount of data transferred over complete download session 23:00:02 <Yexo> which means 0.2l beer or shotglasses of stronger drinks 23:00:16 <Yexo> of course the specific drink and person make a big difference 23:00:23 <Ruudjah> now it wait for 1-2 secs, then updates it to correct percentage loaded 23:00:43 <Ruudjah> I dont know if its more correct previously or now, at least the impression is that now its less accurate 23:00:58 <Yexo> Ruudjah: most likely that's because since 1.1 openttd already starts downloading the map before the server is done saving it, so it doesn't know the total download size 23:01:13 <__ln__> are there countries where drunk-driving is permitted? 23:01:16 <Yexo> the net effect should be that you have to wait less when joining a game 23:01:26 <Ruudjah> Off course, this is a major issue and should be labeled 'critical' 23:01:30 <Ruudjah> cool 23:01:33 <SmatZ> __ln__: some countries, where alcohol is generally forbidden :) 23:02:42 <__ln__> in sweden it is possible to get a special permit to drive drunk for scientific purposes. (not on public roads, though) 23:03:01 <SmatZ> interesting 23:03:10 <SmatZ> the law here applies only to public roads 23:03:19 <SmatZ> (and I would think in the most of the world) 23:03:25 <__ln__> interesting 23:03:41 <Yexo> traffic law yes, the rest of the law not :p 23:03:51 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:03:57 <SmatZ> of course :) 23:04:09 <SmatZ> it's a law about ... public communications 23:04:17 <__ln__> over here the law certainly applies everywhere, it is illegal to drive drunk in your own backyard. 23:04:22 <Yexo> however even a private parking lot is considered 'public' if there is nothing barring entry 23:05:05 <Zuu> Year cheat 30 year in future => CluelessPlus increased it's income by ~60% in a year by upgrading vehicles while most other AIs only made minor improvements. And it seems it has not got into a too bad management hell either so I can probably ship this update rather soon. :-) 23:05:11 <SmatZ> there was an interesting court case for that... and the decision was that the "right-hand rule" applies to parking lots as well 23:05:20 <SmatZ> it wasn't about being drunk though 23:05:29 <SmatZ> nor private backyards 23:05:44 <Yexo> I wonder what google is making of my searching tonight. First searching for firearms and accident rates, after that for drunk driving :p 23:05:46 <Eddi|zuHause> <Yexo> which means 0.2l beer or shotglasses of stronger drinks <-- you can't get 0.2l glasses of beer unless you're near cologne, and then it's not even beer at all :p 23:05:56 <SmatZ> hehe :) 23:06:03 <SmatZ> Yexo: :D 23:06:43 <SmatZ> try http://duckduckgo.com/ "The search engine philosophy emphasizes privacy and does not record user information." 23:07:14 <SmatZ> ( I found that site today) 23:07:39 <Yexo> if I don't access it over https my provider will log everything, so it doesn't really matter 23:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i wish i could tell a train "full load, but when you didn't load anything for 2 cycles and >80% loaded, then go ahead anyway" 23:08:32 <SmatZ> Yexo: our constitutional court cancelled that law here few days ago 23:08:41 <SmatZ> hope the same will happen to you 23:08:44 <SmatZ> and to France 23:11:10 <Yexo> I have very little faith in the government for anything related to privacy 23:11:19 <Yexo> or ict for that matter 23:11:23 <SmatZ> :( 23:17:04 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:18:38 <Yexo> SmatZ: https://www.bof.nl/2010/11/11/persbericht-nederland-europees-koploper-opvragingen-telecomgegevens/ (in dutch) 23:18:44 <Ruudjah> Smatz: depending on the country where you live, don't bother with duckduckgo 23:18:50 <Ruudjah> lol 23:19:02 <Ruudjah> especially if you live in France 23:19:05 <Yexo> the figure is the number of times the government has requested telephone, sms and email data 23:19:12 <Yexo> in times / 1000 population 23:19:32 <Yexo> Ruudjah: why not? 23:19:47 <Ruudjah> because they'll save the search data anyways 23:20:01 * SmatZ google translates & reads :) 23:20:38 <Ruudjah> whether that happens at the google server or at some ISP server or at some fiber split (room 51 at AT&T) doesnt matter 23:21:06 <Ruudjah> by the way, that website design of bof rocks quite hard 23:28:00 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.12.7.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:55 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.71.246] has joined #openttd 23:31:03 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-99-42.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:39 <Wolf01> 'night 23:53:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host32-229-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:55:13 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:57:02 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-ee80e555.013-46-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd