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00:13:03 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:19:35 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CE42.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:06 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.77.37] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 00:21:35 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-57-121.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:26:13 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-57-121.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 00:48:13 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.18.101.225] has joined #openttd 00:51:05 <Wolf01> 'night 00:51:09 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host41-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:54:00 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:11:02 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-57-121.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 01:16:50 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-57-121.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:33:22 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d58-111-77-124.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:52:47 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:05:57 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:26:53 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-128-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:50 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-158-070.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:43:12 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@bas8-london14-1279731927.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 02:43:21 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@bas8-london14-1279731927.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [] 02:49:06 *** aber [~Adium@p5085DF35.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:52:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6BE3E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:53:35 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-184-57-41-122.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:16:20 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 03:38:47 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:ddaf:4134:1ac1:f256] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:45:37 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:52:36 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.18.101.225] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:55:19 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.18.101.225] has joined #openttd 04:06:18 *** pikka [~yaaic@120.17.7.213] has joined #openttd 04:34:20 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-86-17.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:03 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:21 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76B53.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:58:36 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-184-57-41-122.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 05:42:46 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 05:57:32 <Terkhen> good morning 05:57:36 <Rubidium> moi 06:18:04 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 06:23:44 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 06:28:21 <andythenorth> morningz 06:32:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 06:42:15 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 06:50:58 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 07:16:40 *** DDR_ [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 07:17:44 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:22:05 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:22:06 *** DDR_ is now known as DDR 07:26:09 <planetmaker> moin 07:26:55 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 07:26:56 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/new_ser_tunnels.png <-- better? worse? both on some parts? 07:27:45 <planetmaker> my artist disappearch, such I have to try myself :-S 07:28:27 <andythenorth> better 07:28:42 <andythenorth> in shape 07:28:54 <planetmaker> that's why I want to re-do them 07:28:56 <andythenorth> texture could use...more love 07:28:59 <planetmaker> the current shap is ugly 07:29:20 <planetmaker> he, I feared that answer ;-) 07:29:36 <planetmaker> Even though every pixel is hand-crafted 07:30:22 <planetmaker> any idea how to improve it? 07:30:49 <Zuu> In the "new" picture, there is a tree in the way to see how the far end looks like in the transition to flat land (with tunnel below) 07:30:59 <Rubidium> maybe you should try to draw the rail and tunnel roof sloping down towards the middle of the tunnel. That way you could keep a bit of green at the top of the tunnel, I think... and then the very short tunnels might not look that badly aligned anymore 07:35:45 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe21dc00-138.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:37:38 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC377A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:37:41 <planetmaker> updated, Zuu 07:38:43 <Zuu> planetmaker: The tunnel? 07:38:51 <planetmaker> the image 07:38:55 <Zuu> I've lost track of where I found that topic 07:38:58 <planetmaker> I'm not a quick drawer 07:39:19 <planetmaker> hm... painter. whatever :-P 07:39:44 <Zuu> Oh, it wasn't a topic - it was from here in IRC :-) 07:40:04 <planetmaker> :-P 07:40:13 <planetmaker> have another coffee ;-) 07:47:57 <Zuu> haven't had a single one yet 07:48:11 <planetmaker> he 07:52:15 *** pikka [~yaaic@120.17.7.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:53:05 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:53:59 *** pikka [~yaaic@120.17.7.213] has joined #openttd 07:55:42 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:00:14 *** Markavian [~Markavian@66.100-50-210.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:03:07 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:03:11 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:03:33 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: Mutant Co-Op - C&C Renegade] 08:05:33 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-128-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:05:49 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-128-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:05:50 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:20:47 <Zuu> Hmm, so coffe in the sun on the balcony :-) 08:21:06 *** kamnet [4cb171cd@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:21:19 <kamnet> Good morning all 08:22:02 * Alberth joins Zuu 08:22:12 <Alberth> hi kamnet 08:23:41 <kamnet> How is everybody? 08:23:55 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 08:24:08 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC377A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 08:24:20 <planetmaker> moin all together :-) 08:24:45 <planetmaker> sun and balcony and coffee.... good choice. I'll be there, too, in a minute ;-) 08:25:09 <kamnet> Lucky you. It's been nothing but severe thunderstorms and tornadoes here all weekend. 08:25:15 <Zuu> planetmaker: Just figured out you also have one in south :-) 08:25:57 <planetmaker> yup. And you could even know it ;-) 08:26:55 <planetmaker> but it wasn't big enough for us all to have breakfast there back then 08:29:39 <kamnet> The rain from Spain falls mainly in Kentucky using 600 gallon buckets. 08:35:27 *** Absurd-Mind [~peter@p54959260.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:37:55 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d821cc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 08:52:22 <Mazur> Good 08:54:09 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B103D8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:59:27 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B1030DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:00:00 *** pikka [~yaaic@120.17.7.213] has left #openttd [] 09:00:20 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-128-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:01:54 *** LordAro [~kvirc@host86-149-31-152.range86-149.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:19:21 *** ZirconiumX [561b9caa@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 09:19:52 *** ZirconiumX is now known as Zirco|DunceHat 09:20:52 *** Zirco|DunceHat is now known as ZirconiumX 09:21:17 <andythenorth> Alberth: morning 09:21:32 <ZirconiumX> hello all 09:21:38 <ZirconiumX> hello andythenorth 09:21:49 <ZirconiumX> sorry about yesterday 09:22:19 <Alberth> moin andythenorth 09:22:26 <Alberth> hello ZirconiumX 09:22:52 <ZirconiumX> hello Alberth - er I mean sir 09:23:00 <Alberth> ZirconiumX: it's ok, we all make mistakes 09:23:23 <andythenorth> ZirconiumX: you know that site's satire? 09:24:03 <ZirconiumX> nope 09:24:23 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19E96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:24:27 <ZirconiumX> anyway - can we just leave that topic - I've said sorry 09:24:41 * ZirconiumX dicides to change the topic 09:24:53 <ZirconiumX> s/dicides/decides 09:25:20 <ZirconiumX> D* does appear to be faster than A* 09:25:30 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 09:25:46 * ZirconiumX knows this - he made a 'course' for 4 algorithms 09:26:27 *** k-man [~jason@ppp167-253-181.static.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 09:27:13 <ZirconiumX> A* got a path in 21 iterations, Djikstra's got a unique path in 21 iterations, Felicitus' unusual pathfinder got a path in 24 iterations, and D* lite) got a path in 14 09:27:47 <k-man> how big does a town have to be to accept goods? 09:28:01 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 09:28:04 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:28:23 <ZirconiumX> k-man - I'd say around the 1,000 mark 09:28:35 <k-man> thanks ZirconiumX 09:28:37 <ZirconiumX> but - I'm a noob 09:28:50 * ZirconiumX checks the wiki 09:28:54 <k-man> and I put a station on the edge of a large town, but it does not seem to accept goods 09:28:58 <k-man> is that normal 09:28:59 <k-man> ? 09:29:16 <andythenorth> k-man: there's no fixed size 09:29:17 <ZirconiumX> it has to be near the center of the town 09:29:21 <andythenorth> depends on the buildings in the town 09:29:40 <ZirconiumX> ty andythenorth 09:32:09 <k-man> thanks 09:33:02 *** kamnet [4cb171cd@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:33:14 <planetmaker> k-man: you can check what each house accepts. It goes in steps of 1/8. A station accepts a cargo if there's at least 8/8 acceptance in its covered area 09:33:46 <k-man> how do I check? click on the house? 09:34:01 <planetmaker> query tool. the ? in the main toolbar 09:34:12 <ZirconiumX> and then click on the house 09:35:02 <planetmaker> (right most icon) 09:36:26 <k-man> so do I need a total of 8/8 goods (sum of multiple houses?) or one house that has 8/8? 09:37:33 <planetmaker> total of many houses is sufficient 09:37:56 <k-man> thanks planetmaker 09:38:01 <planetmaker> mind that houses change, though 09:38:18 <planetmaker> so you want actually a bit more in order to be sure the station keeps accepting goods 09:38:55 <andythenorth> or use FIRS :P 09:39:16 <Alberth> I normally hover with a station over the town, and watch what is accepted 09:40:19 <k-man> Alberth, ah, interesting, thanks 09:40:56 <planetmaker> so do I :-) 09:41:15 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:42:40 <k-man> FIRS? 09:42:43 <k-man> what is firs? 09:43:43 <planetmaker> a newgrf. But IMHO it doesn't solve your problem ;-) 09:43:47 <andythenorth> nope 09:44:41 <planetmaker> it's part of my favourite newgrfs, but it's not a newgrf a beginner should start with 09:44:51 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:45:07 <andythenorth> "FIRS - Beginner's Edition" ? 09:45:14 <andythenorth> :P 09:45:17 <andythenorth> nah 09:45:24 <V453000> :D 09:45:30 <planetmaker> still missing, aka know 'economies' :-P 09:45:31 <andythenorth> FIRS is what you do *after* you've played all default climates && PBI 09:45:53 <andythenorth> FIRS is to stop the game getting boring when you've exhausted other options 09:46:07 <ZirconiumX> FIRS is a bunch of trees 09:46:16 <ZirconiumX> :p 09:46:17 * V453000 doesnt feel like the game is getting boring ;) 09:47:46 * andythenorth ponders redrawing textile mill a bit more 09:50:45 <Mazur> Windmills would be nice as secondary industries. 09:50:51 <Mazur> Pretty. 09:52:56 <andythenorth> Mazur: there's one in FIRS 09:53:02 <Mazur> Cutting wood, grinding wheat, pumping water... Used to be 21 functions for them. 09:53:13 <andythenorth> the FIRS one mills grain 09:53:14 <Mazur> Yes, a modern one. 09:53:43 <Mazur> Oh, have not seen that one yet. 09:53:50 <Mazur> :-))) 09:54:32 <Mazur> I guess V would be happy with a malt-mill. 09:54:36 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/windmill_grain_mill.png 09:55:58 <Alberth> andythenorth: hmm, I seem to have skipped the PBI step 09:56:07 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:57:21 <Mazur> A square windmill. 09:57:26 <Mazur> How quaint. 10:00:10 <Alberth> wind in OpenTTD comes from just one direction 10:00:38 <Mazur> That would be helpful. 10:02:46 *** ZirconiumX [561b9caa@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:04:40 <andythenorth> we ignore the question of how it turns :P 10:06:08 <andythenorth> presumably the top bit rotates 10:06:20 <Terkhen> magic 10:06:49 <andythenorth> maybe a little redrawing is needed :) 10:07:07 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:43 <planetmaker> Alberth: did you ever look at the wind direction(s)? 10:09:52 <planetmaker> it comes from about 3 or 4 different directions actually 10:10:00 <planetmaker> depending on which graphics you look at 10:10:13 <planetmaker> smoke. wind sock, water are just three different ones ;-) 10:10:32 <planetmaker> iirc there are one or two more, but I don't recall 10:10:40 <andythenorth> flag somewhere? 10:10:41 <andythenorth> hq? 10:10:45 <planetmaker> possibly 10:10:57 <Alberth> around trains there is no wind at all :) 10:11:05 <Alberth> +steam 10:11:09 <planetmaker> smoke ^ 10:11:29 <andythenorth> now I have to draw a round windmill :( 10:11:41 <Mazur> /usr/local/games/autostart/ps.openttdcoop.org-3979-svn/src/main_gui.cpp: In member function âvirtual EventState MainWindow::OnKeyPress(uint16, uint16)â: 10:11:41 <Mazur> /usr/local/games/autostart/ps.openttdcoop.org-3979-svn/src/main_gui.cpp:378: error: âPlaceLandBlockInfoâ was not declared in this scope 10:12:03 <Mazur> Rather unexpected. 10:12:10 <Alberth> smoke does not stay over the train if the wind comes from one side 10:12:56 <planetmaker> Mazur: tried make clean && make ? 10:13:33 <Mazur> It was a clean co, no patches, with (auto-)start 10:13:42 <Alberth> andythenorth: http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1266329 10:13:47 <Mazur> Had completely removed the old directory to ensure that. 10:13:52 <planetmaker> autostart only updates, doesn't necessarily clean 10:14:00 <planetmaker> ok 10:14:11 <Mazur> It will be clean if the target directory is missing. 10:14:40 <Alberth> rerun ./configure ? 10:15:14 <andythenorth> yeah, I can convert it to post mill maybe 10:15:16 <Mazur> No change. 10:15:32 <planetmaker> does a post mill grind mail into pulp? 10:16:01 <Alberth> mail is one form of paper :) 10:16:21 <Mazur> frequently polluted with plastic. 10:16:48 <Alberth> Mazur: so where did PlaceLandBlockInfo go? 10:16:55 <Mazur> I do not know. 10:17:25 <Mazur> I only know the checkout will not compile as is. 10:17:40 <Mazur> On linux. 10:17:54 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:17:54 <Mazur> Linux quad 2.6.34.8-68.fc13.i686 #1 SMP Thu Feb 17 15:00:46 UTC 2011 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux 10:19:25 <Mazur> toolbar_gui.cpp:static CallBackFunction PlaceLandBlockInfo() 10:19:45 <Mazur> I suppose that is the function itself. 10:20:33 <SmatZ> Mazur: boooh 10:20:43 <SmatZ> Mazur: how did you configure? 10:20:46 <Alberth> static :) 10:20:54 <SmatZ> aha 10:21:12 <SmatZ> interesting 10:21:12 <Mazur> I did not configure anything spoecial: ./configure 10:21:20 <Mazur> -o 10:21:55 <SmatZ> can you paste config.cache somewhere? 10:21:57 <SmatZ> brb 10:22:02 <Alberth> static functions are not visible outside their own .cpp file, that's why it cannot be found from main_gui.cpp 10:22:14 <Terkhen> is it vanilla or patched? 10:22:26 * Alberth bets patched 10:23:08 <Mazur> vanilla 10:23:21 * Mazur collects, 10:23:28 <Mazur> :-D 10:24:19 <Mazur> If it was patched I would not be talking here. 10:24:49 <Mazur> I would firest give myself a "pets" and unpatch it. 10:25:03 <Mazur> -e 10:26:07 <Mazur> Just check your own toolbar_gui.cpp (for patches, too. 10:26:09 <Mazur> ) 10:27:16 <Mazur> Or better yet, check the one in trunk. 10:27:27 <k-man> is it best to have a train waiting for production? or let a station fill up before a train arrives? 10:28:05 <Mazur> Depends on what you define as "best"./ 10:28:32 <Alberth> Mazur: in r22375, there is no PlaceLandBlockInfo() outside toolbar_gui.cpp 10:28:51 * SmatZ grepped with the same result 10:29:08 <Terkhen> and I can compile r22375 without problems 10:29:14 <Mazur> case 'G': 10:29:14 <Mazur> PlaceLandBlockInfo(); 10:29:14 <Mazur> break; 10:29:16 <SmatZ> case GHK_CHAT: // smart chat; send to team if any, otherwise to all 10:29:33 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3571.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:29:34 <SmatZ> Mazur: you have very outdated checkout, it seems 10:29:37 <Alberth> ^ that line is #378 in main_gui.cpp, trunk 10:29:45 <SmatZ> like, one without hotkeys 10:30:01 <SmatZ> Mazur: are you sure it's r22375? 10:30:13 <SmatZ> eg. svn info src/main_gui.cpp 10:30:17 <Mazur> svn co -r r22375 svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk ps.openttdcoop.org-3979-svn 10:30:34 * andythenorth is sad about windmills :| 10:30:57 <andythenorth> needs to be round or octagonal, with a tapering (conical) profile 10:31:01 <Terkhen> Mazur: what is the output of svn status? 10:31:47 <Mazur> Path: src/main_gui.cpp 10:31:47 <Mazur> Name: main_gui.cpp 10:31:47 <Mazur> URL: svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk/src/main_gui.cpp 10:31:47 <Mazur> Repository Root: svn://svn.openttd.org 10:31:47 <Mazur> Repository UUID: 6aa0318a-3be1-0310-93fa-89fd2396df07 10:31:48 <Mazur> Revision: 22375 10:31:50 <Mazur> Node Kind: file 10:31:52 <Mazur> Schedule: normal 10:31:54 <Mazur> Last Changed Author: rubidium 10:31:56 <Mazur> Last Changed Rev: 22362 10:31:56 <k-man> Mazur, is there a down side to not having a train waiting at all times at a station? 10:31:58 <Mazur> Last Changed Date: 2011-04-22 17:54:16 +0200 (Fri, 22 Apr 2011) 10:32:01 *** Mazur was kicked from #openttd by SmatZ [User terminated!] 10:32:04 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:32:06 <Mazur> Text Last Updated: 2011-04-25 12:30:50 +0200 (Mon, 25 Apr 2011) 10:32:08 <Mazur> Checksum: 3e755bda0948e30429e2e9892d69dd35 10:32:10 <SmatZ> Mazur: use paste service 10:32:14 <Mazur> Sorry. 10:33:24 <SmatZ> [12:30:17] <Mazur> svn co -r r22375 svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk ps.openttdcoop.org-3979-svn 10:33:32 <SmatZ> I executed that, and got correct checkout 10:33:47 <k-man> how can I convince a town to let me build a station? 10:33:49 <SmatZ> maybe you are compiling in a different directory 10:34:00 <Mazur> Looking into that, SmatZ. 10:34:09 <SmatZ> k-man: bribe it, or better try building trees to increase town rating 10:34:24 <SmatZ> k-man: http://wiki.openttd.org/Local_authority 10:35:15 <Mazur> Clean compile outside of autostart. 10:35:26 <Mazur> Thank you all for your help. 10:35:38 <Mazur> I'll go figure what went wrtong there and fix it. 10:35:41 <SmatZ> :-) 10:35:55 <k-man> SmatZ, thanks, can I see my rating somehow? 10:37:06 <SmatZ> k-man: click on the town label, click "Local authority" 10:37:19 <SmatZ> the rating of your company will be shown in the newly opened window 10:37:38 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 10:37:46 <k-man> oh - appaling! hehe 10:37:52 <k-man> no wonder they won't let me build 10:41:29 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.77.37] has joined #openttd 10:43:13 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:44:54 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:49:05 <Zuu> k-man: If you don't have a train waiting at the station, the cargo wait time at the station will not be counted towards transport time. 10:49:24 <Zuu> Also you will probably need less vehicles/trains etc. => more profit. 10:49:26 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host41-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:49:46 <Zuu> However, your station rating can drop. 10:49:55 <planetmaker> which could mean less profit ;-) 10:50:06 <Zuu> As you get less cargo. 10:50:16 <Wolf01> hello 10:50:43 <Zuu> But it also quite depend (I think) on if you have monopoly or if you compete with another player on the same cargo. 10:55:22 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:57:33 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:59 <k-man> what are the keys for lowering or raising the ground? 11:03:13 <Alberth> q and w 11:03:14 <planetmaker> on the keyboard 11:03:16 <Markk> e and w 11:03:17 <Markk> Oh 11:03:17 <Markk> q 11:03:31 <planetmaker> hm... what != where. Damn. Fail 11:03:50 <planetmaker> I need coffee 11:03:54 <Zuu> hehe 11:04:42 * planetmaker goes makes tea ;-) 11:05:03 <Alberth> green tea is just as good :) 11:05:14 <k-man> thanks 11:05:18 <Zuu> I really never learnt the up/down keys, so I just press some keys at the bottom row untill I find it :-) 11:05:19 <planetmaker> I guess I'll have a Darjeeling 11:06:16 *** Absurd-Mind [~peter@p54959260.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:06:19 * Zuu got some real chinese green tea - didn't like it very much 11:06:49 <Zuu> Some of the western green teas are okay though. 11:07:10 <k-man> its been so long since I played openttd - but its all coming back to me now 11:07:22 * planetmaker just got the idea to add the actual shortcut key to the tooltips 11:07:43 * planetmaker also got Japanese green tea 11:07:57 * Zuu remembers an idea he though of last night 11:08:28 <Zuu> Put the transparency options in advanced settings, and add hotkeys to bring up the advanced settings with a specific category unfolded. 11:09:03 <planetmaker> that window IMHO is too big 11:09:16 <Zuu> It might need some work though to get the transparency settings in advanced settings as the structure is quite different. 11:09:41 <Zuu> But it might end up being just too much work. 11:10:16 <planetmaker> logically they c/should go there IMHO 11:10:24 <Zuu> Though the idea to add the ability to define hotkeys for opening specific sections in the advanced settings might be interesting still. 11:10:45 <planetmaker> yep, true 11:11:50 <Alberth> the 'full details' and 'full animation' can safely go to adv settings, you never need them during the game 11:12:01 <Alberth> the other ones change too often imho 11:13:23 <Zuu> Sounds okay to me. 11:14:46 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:21:52 <andythenorth> I would leave most of transparency gui untouched apart from extra options 11:22:00 <andythenorth> e.g. station signs etc 11:26:21 <Ammler> [13:12] <Alberth> the other ones change too often imho <-- you do, if your cpu usage rises, those are the first you disable, aren't? 11:27:14 <Ammler> ah well, quoted the wrong line :-) 11:28:52 <Alberth> I switch of full animation immediately because it annoys me, and full details never 11:29:24 <Alberth> and I never have trouble with my CPU other than during a compile :) 11:29:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: but changing once during the game is "not often" 11:30:06 <k-man> how do you turn off new vehicle notifications? 11:30:41 <Alberth> news paper or offers? 11:30:53 <andythenorth> can someone actually test whether full animation affects CPU? 11:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> k-man: the blue window can't be disabled, and the newspaper can be disabled in the news settings (click and hold the newspaper icon) 11:33:21 <andythenorth> ok 11:33:33 <andythenorth> in my unscientific test, full animation makes more difference than I expected 11:34:23 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:34:24 <andythenorth> it's about 5% if there is a large body of water on the screen 11:34:37 <andythenorth> and about 2% if there is nothing with a colour cycle 11:34:49 <andythenorth> the actual % varies by window size I think 11:35:16 <andythenorth> my openttd is currently using 19% cpu if full animation is turned off 11:35:29 <k-man> Eddi|zuHause, thanks 11:35:37 <k-man> how do you make a co-op game? 11:36:01 <Eddi|zuHause> k-man: one starts a multiplayer game, and the other joins the same company 11:36:50 <andythenorth> full detail appears to make no difference to cpu usage 11:37:23 <andythenorth> none of them cause the game to run appreciably slower or faster 11:37:35 <andythenorth> and the measure for turning them off should be performance, not cpu usage 11:37:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6BE3E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:37:45 <k-man> thanks Eddi|zuHause 11:37:47 <k-man> seems good 11:37:51 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: but it is something you need direct access 11:38:02 <andythenorth> Ammler: nah not really 11:38:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: why? 11:38:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: when they are client settings, you can set them from the main menu, and won't be changed when loading a game 11:39:13 <Ammler> if cpu usage is at 100%, it would be not that easy to navigate through 100 windows to disable those 11:39:55 <andythenorth> Ammler: on my OS, you get a bigger change from resizing the window 11:40:29 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 11:40:34 <andythenorth> if 'full animation' is some kind of important panic button setting, I think there are problems 11:40:51 <Ammler> why else do you disable it? 11:41:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: sometimes it's just annoying 11:41:12 <andythenorth> because you have visual field disturbance from changing pixels? 11:41:16 <andythenorth> matter of taste? 11:41:35 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:41:41 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. when some NuTracks coder failed to replace the proper pixels, and the houses just start flickering... 11:42:23 <andythenorth> make it an advanced setting :P 11:42:24 <Ammler> hehe, maybe it needs a settings, where the settings should be displayed :-) 11:42:28 <andythenorth> yes 11:42:33 <andythenorth> 'configure everything' 11:42:38 <andythenorth> ideally with xml :P 11:42:38 <Ammler> hmm, not a worst idea, a kind of "favorite settings" 11:42:43 <andythenorth> everyone can make their own menus 11:42:45 <andythenorth> forget design 11:42:50 <andythenorth> let the users do it 11:43:14 <andythenorth> add an 'interfaces' category to bananas 11:43:37 <Ammler> you don't need to share it 11:43:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: like i said, when making full animation a proper setting, you can change it from the main menu before loading the game. you can't do that in the current form 11:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that's (imho) a better solution than "panic button" style... 11:44:20 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: that is for people who disable it because they don't like it 11:44:34 <Ammler> I speak for the people who disable it because of cpu usage :-) 11:45:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: you either know that you are loading a potentially dangerous game before hand, or you get thrown out of multiplayer, or you can hit the pause button 11:45:10 <Ammler> and those disable it after they joined a MP game for example 11:45:15 <andythenorth> what the game really needs is a lolcat generator 11:45:20 <andythenorth> it won't succeed without lulz 11:45:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: in any case, you have plenty of time to change the settings then 11:45:38 <andythenorth> if we just added all this stuff, openttd might actually succeed 11:45:47 * andythenorth goes back to drawing windmills 11:45:54 <Ammler> If you get kicked, disabling it wouldn't allow to join again, I would guess 11:45:54 * andythenorth might tilt at them even 11:46:04 <Ammler> not that much influence 11:46:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: why not? you're not banned or anything 11:46:52 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: if you get a kick because you cpu doesn't catch up 11:46:52 <andythenorth> hmm 11:46:58 <andythenorth> you can't pause on MP either 11:47:00 <andythenorth> I see the point 11:47:06 <andythenorth> leave it where it is? 11:47:17 <Ammler> you have _real_ cpu issues, which disabling those wouldn't help, imo 11:47:44 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-86-17.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [] 11:47:48 * andythenorth thinks leave it 11:48:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: if 102% or 98% doesn't make a difference, then i don't see the point 11:48:20 <Ammler> andythenorth: better move them and allow "favorite settings" :-P 11:48:25 <andythenorth> that menu needs some stuff in it, or newbies won't think it's a proper game 11:49:18 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: I would rather think around 80-90% 11:49:29 <Ammler> where you get some laggs sometimes 11:49:36 <andythenorth> a bigger CPU change would come from 'select all ships, send to depot, scrap' 11:50:17 <Ammler> andythenorth: those are next steps or rising pbs time 11:50:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: but at that point you can do 4 clicks instead of 2... 11:50:35 <andythenorth> make it a hotkey 11:50:43 <andythenorth> if you care enough 11:51:20 <Ammler> a hotkey gui would be nice 11:51:56 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: true 11:52:26 <Ammler> the issue is just, if you hide it in the adv. settings menu, you don't change those anymore 11:54:34 <k-man> so with the new path signals, when do you use those? 11:54:35 <Ammler> speaking about cpu usage, you can also remove the "performance hint" on station spread, which is quite useless anymore 11:56:26 <michi_cc> fonsinchen: Got a reply to your post. And regarding the date of some commits, yes, I did a first try back in 2009, but I maneuvered myself into a dead end back then and abandoned the idea for quite some time. On the next try, I salvaged what seemed useful from that attempt, which is why some commits have such an old time stamp. 11:56:57 <fonsinchen> I see. 11:57:04 <michi_cc> fonsinchen: That second attempt wasn't really what I wanted either :) so YACD is actually try number 3. 11:57:51 <fonsinchen> It might have been interesting to talk about it anyway. You could have saved me a lot of work. 11:58:16 <fonsinchen> Your routing algorithm is in fact better than mine. 11:58:38 <fonsinchen> No measuring of capacities, near instant reaction to changes. Nice, really... 11:59:05 <michi_cc> Your automatic order stuff came in just at the right time as I was pondering how to identify route links for non non-stop orders, so thanks for that :) 12:00:17 <fonsinchen> I guess there are some corner cases where one could trick it into failing. After all there is a reason why people have spent so much time trying to solve the multi-commodity flow problem. 12:00:35 <fonsinchen> However, I can't find any right now. 12:01:23 <michi_cc> What I was really struggling with was the destination generation algorithm, where I had the right idea not that far back, where you'd already done most of the work on cargodist. Before that, there wasn't much more than "somehow have fixed destinations and do something with YAPF for routing" to talk about :) 12:03:00 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: Mutant Co-Op - C&C Renegade] 12:06:46 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC377A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:08:05 <k-man> is there some way in a co-op game to cheat and get more money? 12:09:55 <Ammler> setup aircraft route with 1/1 spead 12:10:02 <Ammler> speed* 12:11:23 <planetmaker> k-man: in multiplayer you cannot cheat. Not at all 12:11:35 <k-man> ok, thanks 12:13:13 <Ammler> (I consider the aircraft route as cheat ;-) 12:13:48 <Ammler> 2 airports gives you more money already as you are able to build 12:14:55 <Ammler> (http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Game_Start_with_Airplanes) 12:15:01 <SpComb> how much do cd and yacd differ in terms of a) generating cargo packets with some destination b) getting those cargo packets to the destinations? 12:16:50 <Alberth> k-man: path signals are useful if you want to allow several trains in a block, eg at station entrances 12:18:00 <k-man> Alberth, but you don't use them everywhere right? just at that entrance? 12:18:16 <k-man> for long runs along the track, you still use normal signals? 12:19:55 * andythenorth uses path signals everywhere 12:20:46 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-220-139-004.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:21:03 <Terkhen> I use path signals on crossings and junctions, normal signals everywhere else 12:21:08 *** dada_ [~dada_@195-241-69-171.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 12:24:10 <michi_cc> SpComb: Much. Cargodist doesn't generate destinations, it "just" distributes the cargo over all traveled routes. YACD on the other does generate fixed destinations, but doesn't really distribute the cargo between all routes but will only use those that actually lead to the destination. 12:24:44 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 12:25:15 <SpComb> yeah, I recalled cd was fairly dynamic about where cargo wanted to go 12:25:47 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9010:fb6f:ceb4:cb17] has joined #openttd 12:25:50 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:26:25 *** dada_ [~dada_@195-241-69-171.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:47 <planetmaker> Hehe. Pathzilla complains that there are no vehicles which transport old or diamonds. It is correct ;-) 12:31:30 <planetmaker> but it probably would have sufficed to not notice that for every mine, but for each cargo only once. 12:31:40 <planetmaker> or rather s/mine/route/ 12:31:57 <planetmaker> ^ Zuu 12:34:06 <Zuu> I didn't write Pathzilla, that was zutty 12:34:20 <planetmaker> oh, sorry :-) 12:35:04 <andythenorth> drawing octagonal sloping things is...challenge 12:35:18 <Zuu> Though it would have been nice if I would have made Pathzilla as it is nice to see when people apply optimization/planning ideas in an AI. :-) 12:36:21 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-60-81.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:37:49 <planetmaker> :-) 12:40:52 *** Doorslammer [770b0986@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 12:41:29 <planetmaker> well, CluelessPlus is doing bus services well :-) 12:42:35 <planetmaker> but it really could do with the other modes of transport :-) 12:42:47 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-225-194.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:43:46 <andythenorth> new windmill - upper part is unshaded http://tt-foundry.com/misc/windmill_new.png 12:44:27 <planetmaker> those who are (currently, after 6 years) more profitable also use planes. I guess the one train of AdmiralAI does not make most of its profit 12:44:27 <andythenorth> old for comparison... http://tt-foundry.com/misc/windmill_grain_mill.png 12:45:34 <planetmaker> is there an option to add ever so slightly more noise to its 'tower', andythenorth ? 12:45:41 <planetmaker> The design of the new is much nicer 12:46:05 <Alberth> a 'zzoeff' sound :) 12:47:54 <Belugas> hello 12:48:27 <andythenorth> planetmaker: 'unshaded' ;) 12:48:58 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-77-188-241.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 12:49:00 *** APTX [APTX@89-77-188-241.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:32 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 12:58:45 <Terkhen> andythenorth: what model are you using? 13:01:01 <planetmaker> :-) NoCAB just build a ship route for wood over 1/4 of the map :-) And it works nicely 13:01:53 <planetmaker> though TransAI's hover crafts with passengers are 2.5 x as profitable... 13:02:18 <k-man> what is near end/far end/middle in the orders? 13:04:15 <planetmaker> try it. It's obvious :-) 13:04:24 <planetmaker> but not really important 13:04:36 <planetmaker> the place within a (larger) station where the train stops 13:05:07 <k-man> oh, I see, thanks 13:08:21 <planetmaker> hehe. AdmiralAI built a road route over my coast tile test area... 13:11:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:16:01 <LordAro> planetmaker: are you testing aroai also? ;) 13:18:38 <planetmaker> It's currently not active. But I guess I could add that to the list as well. I recently removed a few which crashed too often or which spammed my console with pointless un-caught exceptions 13:20:07 <planetmaker> But I don't quite remember which those were. 13:20:14 <LordAro> crashed too often? not aroai i hope... :) 13:23:00 <planetmaker> I added it to my default list now, so it will be used the next game(s) I start 13:23:11 <planetmaker> which I do a lot for testing newgrfs 13:23:27 <planetmaker> and AIs just have a chance to use them concurrently 13:23:42 <planetmaker> and to do the work for me to build things ;-) 13:28:41 <Eddi|zuHause> something i noticed, but didn't test in trunk yet: when using railtypes grf, and turning bridges invisible, the railtype overlay over the bridge gets transparent, not invisible 13:34:06 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:42:14 *** Doorslammer [770b0986@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 13:42:47 *** Doorslammer [770b0986@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 13:42:50 <LordAro> planetmaker: :) 13:42:55 <LordAro> ty 13:44:27 *** LordAro [~kvirc@host86-149-31-152.range86-149.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.1 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:45:36 <planetmaker> yes, that's the case, Eddi|zuHause 13:45:59 *** LordAro [~kvirc@host86-149-31-152.range86-149.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 13:46:32 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: well, it's kinda inconsistent 13:46:49 <k-man> is there some way to see which stations have the most product waiting at them? ie, underserviced stations 13:47:10 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: also while at it: tram catenary stays visible 13:47:26 <Alberth> k-man in the main gui toolbar, you can get a list of stations 13:47:34 <Alberth> you can sort on rating or so 13:47:36 <Eddi|zuHause> (rail catenary as well) 13:50:15 *** Doorslammer [770b0986@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 13:51:17 <k-man> thanks Alberth 13:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause> cargo value 13:51:36 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: but they have their own setting, the catenary 13:51:39 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure how that is calculated... 13:52:03 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, but bridge invisibility should override catenary visibility on bridge 13:53:19 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone got a station rating grf yet? 13:53:52 <Terkhen> I don't know any 14:02:49 <planetmaker> nor do I know 14:03:40 <Terkhen> what changes to station rating could be interesting? 14:04:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: most annoying is the "must have always a train waiting". imho "a train every 30 days" should yield no lower than 50% rating 14:04:40 <Terkhen> sounds logical 14:04:56 <Eddi|zuHause> other people want the speed influence disabled 14:04:59 <Terkhen> I usually don't pay much attention to ratings :) 14:05:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: they kinda get important when cargo disappears at a transfer station :) 14:06:28 <Terkhen> hmm... if callbacks weren't so complicated I would take a look at it for ogfx+ industries 14:06:45 <Terkhen> but I'm already quite confused with custom chains :P 14:06:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i might get annoyed enough to try myself 14:06:53 <LordAro> question: with mercurial queues, whats the easiest/best way to update trunk? 14:07:14 <Terkhen> hg qpop -a && hg fetch 14:07:27 <Terkhen> then you push each patch and check if there are rejects 14:08:25 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: that would be a welcome patch for opengfx+ industries :) 14:08:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: i think it warrants a separate grf 14:11:42 <LordAro> Terkhen: before or after doing hg pull/update? 14:11:52 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: ok 14:11:57 <Terkhen> LordAro: depends 14:12:28 <Terkhen> I always keep an untouched clone of trunk and clone it for my queue repos 14:12:40 <LordAro> what does hg fetch do, exactly? 14:12:48 <Terkhen> more or less "hg pull -u" 14:13:25 <Terkhen> you need to activate it as an extension, though 14:13:28 <Terkhen> so just use hg pull -u 14:13:48 <LordAro> i see, thanks 14:14:12 <LordAro> and yes, i need to get into the habit of cloning more - i started with svn, you see :) 14:15:17 <LordAro> s/started/started coding/ 14:15:44 <Terkhen> I did the same with svn; I copied my clean checkout whenever I wanted to code something different 14:16:51 <Alberth> I started doing bzr to make such copies :) 14:17:57 * LordAro reorganises his checkouts/clones 14:18:44 <Alberth> have one clone that pulls from openttd.org, and use that to make local clones 14:18:52 <k-man> how do you close all windows? 14:18:58 <Alberth> delete button 14:19:05 <Alberth> euhm, backspace 14:19:12 <k-man> on osx 14:19:20 <k-man> fn-delete 14:19:22 <k-man> thanks 14:19:25 <Alberth> install linux :p 14:20:22 <Alberth> k-man: it is not entirely 'all windows', if you pinned them, they will stay 14:21:03 <Alberth> and there are a few ones that always stay, like the main gui toolbar, and the main gui :) 14:23:09 <LordAro> :) 14:26:06 <k-man> thanks, Alberth 14:26:17 <k-man> anyway, time for bed, thanks all for your help 14:26:21 <Alberth> bye 14:26:30 <Alberth> LordAro: how is the readme going? 14:27:14 <LordAro> sort of stalled, i got into 32bp again :) 14:27:31 <LordAro> ...and my exams start in about 3 weeks,. :( 14:28:53 <Alberth> so 2 months at least 14:30:31 <LordAro> afraid so :( 14:30:47 <LordAro> won't stop you from working on it though :P 14:31:29 <Alberth> If I start, it'd be finished in a week :) 14:32:06 <Alberth> as long as you finish before 1.2 :) 14:32:38 <Alberth> if you decide to quit, please let me know 14:33:15 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:35:07 <LordAro> :) 14:41:25 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 14:45:39 <Ammler> Alberth: what you expect from a readme, not in describtion or parameter gui? 14:48:03 <Ammler> I mean, if you think it further, there is no need for ingame readme viewer anymore... 14:48:14 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-126-214.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:49:01 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-57-121.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:49:03 <Ammler> rather show the readme on webstite bananas 14:49:04 <Alberth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/docs/readme.ptxt section 3, 4, 6, 7 ? 14:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: a readme can have vital information like the DBSetXL readme on how to assemble certain trains, or information about "realism" 14:49:59 <Alberth> Ammler: not everybody has a live internet connection all the time 14:50:19 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: yes, next step is making a html viewer, and then pdf viewer? 14:50:24 <planetmaker> like "get 2nd gen only when wagon speed limits is enabled" :-P 14:50:34 <planetmaker> I wonder whether I EVER saw the 2nd gen dbset wagons 14:50:43 <planetmaker> must be years ago 14:51:29 <Ammler> Alberth: the readme can be viewed with your favorite viewer, where you also can click a link etc. 14:51:32 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: technically it's the 3rd gen. and it was fine until openttd implemented wagon lifetime :p 14:51:50 <Ammler> a openttd readme viewer is only useable if you get there :-) 14:51:59 <Eddi|zuHause> then the nasty bug turned up where the old wagons disappear, but the new ones don't appear 14:52:17 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: well... but you can still have 'vehicles never expire', or how does that work there? 14:52:21 <Ammler> and c&p or links is a nono in openttd, afaik 14:52:30 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, that should work 14:52:49 <Alberth> Ammler: you overestimate that people know where the data is stored, know they need a tar file, know how to open a tar file, know how to start a reader 14:52:58 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but the dbset readme also recommends to turn that off :p 14:53:02 <planetmaker> as long as we don't have a proper-length day length, there's no fun in having vehicles expire ;-) 14:53:09 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: of course 14:53:20 <Ammler> Alberth: for the others, just expand the description field 14:53:41 <planetmaker> I should not comment on things like having the newgrf behave differently with vehicle availability as a function on settings like wagon lifetime or wagon speed limits ;-) 14:53:49 <Alberth> but the window is already too big 14:53:52 <Ammler> maybe also a seperate license and credits field 14:53:57 <planetmaker> but it's just broken by design to handle these 14:54:30 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: well the idea is that the other wagons are just redundant without speed limit, as it's the only difference 14:54:43 <Alberth> Ammler: is that info even in the newgrf? 14:54:53 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: even then :-) They look different which might be reason enough 14:55:10 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: only a few look different 14:55:12 <planetmaker> and possibly different capacity 14:55:15 <planetmaker> or not? 14:55:25 <Eddi|zuHause> no, capacity is the same 14:55:29 <Ammler> well, but it should in that case not be a readme viewer, just an additional info file viewer, maybe configureable with action14 14:55:32 <planetmaker> he, then 15t is not much 14:55:45 <Ammler> else you have some infos double, specially the part about parameters 14:55:53 <Ammler> or links 14:56:14 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: 15t is only the _very_ first vehicles, the next ones do show up even without speedlimits 14:56:26 <planetmaker> ah, ok :-) 14:56:36 <planetmaker> I guess I didn't play with that set for a looong time 14:56:38 <Ammler> lazy authors can still define the readme as info file 14:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> they have 25t (wood, steel), 30t (oil, goods) and 40t (coal, ore) capacity 14:58:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: an action14-readme-extension and grfcodec spits out a .html file? 14:58:27 <Ammler> [16:54] <Alberth> Ammler: is that info even in the newgrf? <-- could be added as a14? 14:58:42 <Eddi|zuHause> grfdoc 14:58:53 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: imo, everything openttd shows should/could be part of the newgrf 14:58:58 <Ammler> no file viewer at all 14:59:21 <Ammler> if not with a8, then with 114 14:59:23 <Ammler> a14* 14:59:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: but as a grf author having info on a webpage independent from the grf would be useful 14:59:49 <Ammler> yep, so you want a html viewer? 15:00:09 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. if i offer my grf on a website for download, having an additional readme website 15:00:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and there still are ttdpatch users 15:00:28 <Eddi|zuHause> who wouldn't get to the builtin readme 15:00:29 <planetmaker> those can also read a readme.txt 15:00:42 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, but then i have two files 15:00:46 <Ammler> yes, but the readme does repeat infos also already in the grf, like title and parameters 15:00:56 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: which have to be kept up to date separately 15:01:15 <Ammler> so this should not be part of the file showed in the readme, so you still neeed to maintain 2 different files 15:01:35 <Ammler> then you cuold as good add those to the newgrf itself 15:02:15 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC377A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:02:51 <Ammler> I would not like FIRS removing parameter description from readme just to avoid that 15:03:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: that's why i suggested autogenerating a .html file from the grf-doc 15:03:49 <Ammler> sounds nice 15:03:57 <Alberth> we can do a search for info.txt first or whatever 15:04:10 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: or simple using rst 15:04:24 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: just copy the file out of the .tar 15:04:25 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC40E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:04:44 <Alberth> Ammler: windows has no rst software 15:05:01 <Ammler> Alberth: the effort to make a file viewer in openttd is not worth 15:05:10 <Ammler> easier to add more info to a8/14 15:05:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: this is about having readme in the action14. then openttd could display the action14 data, while external viewers could display the (autogenerated) html from the tar 15:06:07 <Ammler> and the author can still generate with that info a readme for his webpage and readme etc. 15:06:38 <Ammler> else you need to maintain a lot infos doulbe 15:06:55 <Alberth> feel free to create a post at a forum and ask the poeple that actually want this functionality 15:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and there's still the issue that bananas download shows a "proper" description, which later isn't available anymore in the newgrf settings. so valuable information is just thrown away 15:08:25 <Alberth> personally, I don't really care how the info is delivered, I just think there should be more info available for a user 15:08:50 <Ammler> yes, that is another issue, bananas should also use the info from the grf too 15:09:11 <Ammler> specially title 15:09:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: you have my argument backwards 15:10:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: the bananas info is already there, in a machine readable and openttd displayable format. it is just thrown away 15:10:13 <Ammler> the bananas desc is of no need for openttd 15:10:22 <Ammler> that is just to make "advertising" 15:10:33 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3571.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:36 <Ammler> if you once downloaded the grf, that info is useless 15:10:44 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it is not 15:10:46 <Ammler> so it is fine as it is imo 15:10:57 <Ammler> but bananas should have the infos from the grf 15:11:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the difference is that old grfs won't contain new descriptions. but perfectly fine descriptions are already there. 15:13:03 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: the only description a old grf should have is "please use the new version" 15:13:47 <Ammler> (or the grf description) 15:14:58 <Ammler> I mean, why should I take the effort to make a nice description for a old version, if I simply could release a new version with a14 etc.? 15:15:17 <planetmaker> :-) 15:15:27 <planetmaker> Adding that is indeed not difficult 15:16:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: but why should i make a widespread grf incompatible without any functional changes? 15:16:34 <Ammler> what does make it incompatible? 15:16:38 <Ammler> a14 doesn't 15:16:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: different md5sum == incompatible 15:16:55 <Ammler> who told you that? 15:17:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the game, every time i make a few modifications. 15:17:30 <Ammler> ah, you mean that new "security feature" of 1.1.0? 15:17:53 <Ammler> you really don't use scenario_developer or how that is called? 15:18:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: it's not about what _I_ use 15:19:15 <Ammler> well, I can just tell what I do or would like, I know, you and some others here are capable to know what is best for others ;-) 15:20:06 <Ammler> the most sucking features are result of such silly thoughts... 15:21:01 <Ammler> after all, this is a opensource game, you don't need to sell it 15:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: my point was: there is already plenty of information in a displayable format, but it isn't displayed at the right place 15:23:28 <Ammler> there was a reason to keep different infos for bananas and grf gui, wasn't? 15:23:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i never heard one 15:23:57 <Eddi|zuHause> just that the grf gui is older than bananas 15:24:01 <Ammler> bananas is able to read the grfid from it, so it wouldn't have beend hard to also get the desc from there 15:24:44 <Ammler> bananas desc is for advertising, grf desc for using :-) 15:24:45 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd 15:25:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the grf desc (from action 8) has some kind of length limitation 15:25:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never seen useful information in there, just author crediting and stuff 15:26:13 <Eddi|zuHause> while in the bananas description is often longer and with valuable information 15:26:27 <Ammler> you think, the bananas descriptions have? 15:32:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6A81C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:38:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6BE3E.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:39:31 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 15:56:17 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-126-214.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:01:20 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-126-214.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:07:26 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.153.193.224] has joined #openttd 16:07:36 <Alberth> (17:24:04) Ammler: bananas is able to read the grfid from it, so it wouldn't have beend hard to also get the desc from there <-- openttd has no storage for that info 16:08:52 <Alberth> if anywhere, it should be part of the file that gets copied/downloaded/shared, etc 16:09:20 <Ammler> Alberth: bananas 16:09:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, in the .tar, which brings us back to reading an external text file 16:09:58 <Alberth> bananas is not storage for openttd 16:10:25 <Ammler> why is there need for a text file which everyone formats differentely instead using a proper specified a14 properity? 16:10:26 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.77.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:45 <Ammler> afaik, the grf is also part of the tar :-) 16:11:15 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.77.37] has joined #openttd 16:11:20 <Alberth> Ammler: isn't that the question started with? 16:12:04 <Ammler> I just think, the need for readme viewer is depreciated with a14 16:12:10 <Alberth> existing newgrf have no a14 16:12:39 <Ammler> why do you care about existing grfs, you don't when you make gameplay changes 16:13:12 <Ammler> and existing grfs would also need that readme 16:13:18 <Alberth> did I make a gameplay change? 16:13:26 <Alberth> one that broke newgrfs? 16:13:27 <Ammler> you = devs :-) 16:14:10 <Ammler> but anyway, authors need to make a info file, so they could as easy add a14 16:14:13 <Alberth> Ammler: it is more a bunch of individuals that happen to have commit access to svn 16:15:14 <Ammler> so the argument about existing grfs is invalid, unless you want to support viewing of exisint files 16:15:41 <Ammler> then you need to support 10(?) different formats 16:16:38 <Ammler> and html, and pdf and... 16:16:42 <Alberth> where does one store recommended vehicle sets for eg FIRS in a14? 16:17:18 <Ammler> in a new custom a14 properity "supported vehicle sets" 16:17:20 <Alberth> or explanation of what ecomomies will exist, and when to play which one 16:17:51 <Ammler> maybe with direct download possibility :-) 16:18:08 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.77.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:12 <Ammler> Alberth: that is something you can read from the homepage or the readme 16:18:16 <Alberth> from where? the file I already have? 16:18:35 <Alberth> how do you read the readme at a plain windows system 16:18:37 <Alberth> ? 16:18:40 <Ammler> or from another a14 properity 16:19:12 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.77.37] has joined #openttd 16:19:55 <Alberth> so every newgrf has its own set of custom properties? 16:20:02 <Alberth> how is that better? 16:20:29 <Ammler> hmm, why is there need for own? 16:20:52 <Alberth> (18:18:43) Ammler: or from another a14 properity <-- how many other newgrf have economies like FIRS? 16:21:52 <Ammler> Alberth: the difference is, you don't need to implement and support a file viewer 16:22:13 <Ammler> IMO, quite major :-) 16:22:28 <Zuu> If you go for a readme file reader solution I think it will be easier to adopt to other type of bananas content than NewGRFs. 16:22:39 <planetmaker> Ammler: a plain text file is far more versatile than any bananas or newgrf property ever can be. 16:23:01 <Alberth> and quite trivial, as we can already load arbitrary files from tars 16:23:15 <Ammler> planetmaker: that makes it worse, not better 16:23:30 <Ammler> as you have no spec 16:23:39 <planetmaker> I can only say: how can it make it worse? 16:24:02 <planetmaker> No readme available vs. support for plain text readmes 16:24:04 <Alberth> Ammler: you have custom information for every newgrf, you need to keep that somewhere, as part of the distributed newgrf file 16:24:05 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.77.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:12 <planetmaker> where is there anything detrimental? 16:25:46 <Alberth> readme files are by definition intended for human readers, they have superior parsing capabilities to machines 16:25:59 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 16:26:43 <planetmaker> btw, also by offering ingame support for plain text readmes, none of the existing readmes or inforation channels about newgrfs becomes invalid, Ammler 16:26:48 <Ammler> planetmaker: you think, it is useful to read the FIRS readme with openttd? 16:26:57 <planetmaker> Ammler: yes 16:27:16 <Ammler> so why a14? 16:27:43 <planetmaker> e.g. for parameter description. But a readme can also give hints on 'how to play' - where would that go? 16:27:59 <planetmaker> a14 is directly newgrf-related. The readme is player information 16:28:12 <planetmaker> thus a14 -> openttd. readme -> player 16:28:27 <Ammler> hmm, I would say, that would be a guide or homepage for 16:28:35 <Zuu> parameter description is also things are useful for "everyday use" while the readme is mostly useful as extended help for new users. 16:28:36 <planetmaker> you can still have that. 16:28:49 <Ammler> same reason the wiki readme for ogx is that ugly 16:28:53 <Ammler> ogfx* 16:29:17 <planetmaker> Ammler: and when the readme only tells the reader: Please go to ... for more information including graphical introduction 16:29:34 <planetmaker> well, yes 16:30:01 <planetmaker> ingame it would be read far more 16:30:20 <planetmaker> as most get things via online content. Then ingame is the only means of communication author <-> player 16:30:34 <Alberth> Ammler: you have to type the URL manually to get to a home page 16:31:01 <Ammler> Alberth: yep, so you need a readme without links 16:31:35 <Alberth> which beats no simple way to access that information 16:32:31 <Ammler> it means you need to compile a special info file, you can't use the readme 16:32:44 <Ammler> so you can as good add it as a14 :-) 16:33:35 <Alberth> how can you not use the readme? 16:33:36 <planetmaker> Ammler: the normal readme which every project on the DevZone has will suffice for this 16:33:48 <Ammler> simple properities with a title and desc 16:33:50 <planetmaker> And it will suddenly become interesting to actually make that readme valuable 16:34:08 <Ammler> planetmaker: no, that readme has links 16:34:10 <Alberth> it may contain some stuff that is not really needed, but who cares? 16:34:26 <planetmaker> Ammler: yes, so? 16:34:26 <Alberth> the newgrf description now also has links 16:34:31 <Ammler> and it has info about parameter, which are already in a14 16:34:35 <planetmaker> Even action8 has links 16:35:35 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:35:36 <Alberth> perhaps the user never knew about certain options? or they were not clear from the a14 text? 16:35:50 <planetmaker> a14 can make it clear 16:35:59 <Zuu> In a readme you could explain the settings in more detail that is not possible in the settings window? 16:36:02 <Ammler> then someone sould make that clear instead add double infos 16:36:28 <planetmaker> But a readme has more than just description of what a single setting does 16:36:39 <Ammler> it could also happen that someone updates/changes and doesn't update the readme 16:36:48 <planetmaker> You don't want to write a book on, say, a FIRS economy 16:37:07 <Alberth> planetmaker: someone will one day :) 16:37:08 <planetmaker> Yes, it can also happen that people release broken newgrfs. So what? 16:37:26 <Zuu> Well, its up to each author how much docs you want to maintain. 16:37:44 <Zuu> At the moment you are restricted to a text of maximum 500 chars. 16:38:11 <Ammler> Zuu: you can add a readme or a guid or a whole homepage about 16:38:12 <Alberth> such authors probably cannot be bothered to write a readme in the first place, which is also allowed 16:39:08 <Ammler> the main issue is that a openttd viewer never will support images and links 16:39:16 <Alberth> Ammler: there is no way you are going to get that document out of the tar file without installing extra software that you need to know where to find 16:39:17 <Zuu> At the moment I dont have any readmes to any of my AIs as nooen would ever care to read it. 16:39:20 <planetmaker> Ammler: please tell me, what is then the better concept over a readme viewer? Something which is not a browser included within OpenTTD 16:39:43 <Zuu> I can print as much info as I want in the AI log, but I'm sure most people wouldn't even notice it. 16:40:04 <Ammler> planetmaker: extend a14 16:40:28 <Ammler> might not be better but much easier for you and the author 16:40:52 <Ammler> and of course not worse :-) 16:42:07 <Zuu> I don't see why an in-game readme reader wouldn't be able to support images. It would be more work, but I wouldn't categorize it as imposible. 16:42:11 <Ammler> and you have the info once only 16:42:24 * Alberth repeats question how to store custom information that every newgrf has in a14 without making it useless 16:44:05 <Eddi|zuHause> removing railtype grf does awful things to the graphics... why? can't you use simple rails as fallback graphics? 16:44:09 <Ammler> also wouldn't it be nice to have further infos about a parameter with the parameter instead the need to crawl the readme 16:46:06 <Zuu> As for parameters, you have a point, but I'm certain there are still things that would not fit in the parameter descs but would fit in a readme. 16:46:48 <Zuu> Btw, if you add a long desc to a14, a long desc to NoAI is also welcome :-) 16:47:05 <planetmaker> Ammler: the readme itself has nothing to do what you add as desc to a parameter 16:47:27 <Ammler> well, but you could add that info to a14 16:47:29 <planetmaker> But I see no advantage to add a _whole_ readme inside a NewGRF. That's way more complicated to maintain as author IMHO 16:47:32 *** Absurd-Mind [~peter@p54959260.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:48:01 <Ammler> you don't, that is the _whole_ point 16:48:07 <planetmaker> And the NoAI argument is actually a _very_ good one against action14 16:48:10 <planetmaker> or scenarios 16:48:32 <planetmaker> Ammler: but action14 = inside grf. Readme=outside grf. The latter is easier 16:49:00 <planetmaker> I think we're walking circles, though 16:49:34 <Ammler> well, it doesn't hurt, you will see how useful it is 16:49:35 <Zuu> planetmaker: Yes, so code it up and commit before Ammler comes with futher arguments :-) 16:49:54 <Ammler> Zuu: "they" never care about my thoughts :-P 16:50:05 <planetmaker> totally not true :-) 16:50:12 <Ammler> :-) 16:50:26 <planetmaker> but we do not always agree either ;-) 16:50:36 <Ammler> rarly 16:51:23 <planetmaker> that's also totally not true ;-) 16:51:42 <Ammler> ah well :-D 16:53:08 <planetmaker> but you recently found two or three points which you chose to strongly disagree to the way it was implemented. Of course that is obvious, but not the many things which 'just work' as you expect them to ;-) 16:56:29 <planetmaker> back to slicing the factory :-) 16:56:38 <planetmaker> I successfully killed the discussion :-P 16:58:39 <V453000> beer! 16:58:49 * V453000 is waiting to see if that brought the discussion back ;) 16:58:50 <V453000> :D 17:01:39 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently not 17:03:35 *** Adambean` [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 17:03:45 <LordAro> an interesting conversation has been happening while i've been gone... 17:03:59 <LordAro> should i make a forum thread? 17:08:45 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:09:39 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:14:27 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 17:18:04 <Ammler> planetmaker: well, just because you implemented it that way, because you are unable to ignore some stupid support/bug reports :-) 17:22:20 *** aber [~Adium@p5085EA4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:34:41 *** ashb [~ash@callisto.firemirror.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause> err... in strings.cpp:641: return _units[_settings_game.locale.units].c_velocity.ToDisplay(speed, false); <-- why not "true" here? ("apply rounding") 17:39:59 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecf128.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 17:40:04 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecf128.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 17:41:57 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: would the transparency window like http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=943494#p943494 work for you? 17:42:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: not really... 17:45:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22376 /trunk/src/lang/ (portuguese.txt simplified_chinese.txt slovenian.txt): 17:45:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 6 changes by Gavin 17:45:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 changes by JayCity 17:45:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovenian - 2 changes by Necrolyte 17:46:17 *** kamnet [4cb171cd@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 17:47:18 <Alberth> hmm, I really don't understand it, thus :/ 17:49:12 <planetmaker> Alberth: I think the point is: currently you have two ways to use it: toggle current settings as set in the window with x 17:49:47 <planetmaker> the other which a 3-state button won't allow anymore is: window open and toggling a button to switch visibility -> transparency or invisibility for a single item 17:49:54 <planetmaker> can be useful indeed 17:50:16 <planetmaker> at least such use would be more difficult with a 3-state button 17:50:47 <planetmaker> and using radio buttons would even require mouse movement 17:53:58 <Alberth> Ah, that is what I have been missing. I never realized you could use the window by itself too. 17:54:02 <Alberth> thanks! 17:55:06 <planetmaker> you're welcome 17:57:57 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.18.101.225] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:51 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-126-214.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 18:06:56 <LordAro> Alberth: do you think i should move the GRFHasReadme() function to be a part of GRFConfig? 18:07:24 *** aber [~Adium@p5085EA4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:07:37 <LordAro> (i haven't looked into the feasibility of it yet) 18:08:40 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-126-214.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:09:55 <Alberth> I don't have an opinion about it yet, GRFConfig does not hit me as the obvious right choice, but I don't know of any useful alternative either, so you may be right. In any case, moving code is imho not the main problem at this time, I'd suggest to get it running first 18:10:50 <Alberth> moving a function to some other struct is quite simple to do afterwards as well 18:14:08 <LordAro> maybe :) i just thought it would be easier to do something like 'this->has_readme' than using the functions separately 18:17:07 <Alberth> it is mostly f(this); versus this->f(); not much of a difference 18:17:50 <Alberth> but if you believe in GRFConfig is better, it's your party 18:19:19 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.77.37] has joined #openttd 18:19:31 <LordAro> i guess 18:20:16 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.18.101.225] has joined #openttd 18:20:45 * LordAro ponders on an auto updating hg clone pull-er/updater script 18:21:15 <Alberth> ie hg fetch? 18:21:32 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.77.37] has quit [] 18:22:03 <Alberth> or do you use a patch queue? 18:22:09 <LordAro> one that does it every hour or something 18:22:24 <LordAro> just to make life easier for my clean trunk clone 18:22:57 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean a cronjob 18:22:59 <Alberth> I do it just when I get online, mostly once a day 18:23:13 <Alberth> unless an important change comes by 18:23:45 <LordAro> i'd end up forgetting though, then have huge merges to do... 18:25:20 <Alberth> you don't touch that many files do you? 18:26:33 <LordAro> shh :) 18:26:58 <LordAro> i'd like one anyway, at least for the show-off factor :P 18:27:25 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i'll be impressed if you teach it to automatically resolve conflicts :p 18:30:27 <LordAro> :) i meant for clean trunk only 18:32:15 *** alluke [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 18:40:41 <Alberth> LordAro: http://www.fpaste.org/ma9y/ something like this? 18:42:57 <LordAro> not sure, i don't think so... :) 19:02:37 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f590d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:09:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 19:10:50 <andythenorth> ho ho ho 19:11:08 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-107-36.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:12:40 <frosch123> hihihi 19:12:48 <andythenorth> quak quak quak 19:13:01 * andythenorth still thinks of ducks, not frosches 19:13:09 <andythenorth> or froschen 19:13:33 <frosch123> no need for plural, there is only me :p 19:14:16 <alluke> andy 19:14:23 <alluke> i found something for heqs 2 19:14:39 <andythenorth> indeed 19:14:49 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the plural is Frösche 19:15:22 <andythenorth> we could do with more of them 19:15:32 * andythenorth could do with more andythenorths 19:15:39 <andythenorth> might not be so fun for the rest of you :P 19:16:07 <alluke> andy 19:16:17 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-126-214.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 19:16:25 <alluke> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFT-E5Kj6BQ 19:16:32 <alluke> take a look 19:19:12 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: Mutant Co-Op - C&C Renegade] 19:19:30 <andythenorth> alluke: http://www.ptrans.com.au/ 19:19:49 <andythenorth> leaves the Sisu looking embarassed 19:21:18 <andythenorth> 1500hp 19:21:20 <andythenorth> up to 300t 19:21:24 <andythenorth> at highway truck speeds 19:21:57 <andythenorth> :D 19:23:24 *** alluke_ [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:24:35 *** alluke [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:36:10 <Eddi|zuHause> err... which action 3 do i hook my station rating callback to? 19:36:55 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 19:41:56 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 19:44:36 <frosch123> it's a generic callback 19:44:42 <frosch123> i.e no id at all 19:45:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand that 19:45:07 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 19:45:10 <frosch123> "n-id" = 0 19:45:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand that either 19:45:48 <frosch123> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action3 <- using the notation from that page 19:46:37 <Eddi|zuHause> so <action3> <feature stations(?)> 00 <action2-id>? 19:47:03 <Eddi|zuHause> no, there's someg missing 19:47:03 <frosch123> i guess one 00 more 19:47:07 <frosch123> n-id and num-cid 19:47:25 <Rubidium> just take a look at DBSetXL 0.9's source ;) 19:48:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but that's in some m4-script thingy... 19:48:01 <frosch123> isn't eddi the main coder of that one? :p 19:49:58 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:50:59 * andythenorth just loves reading other people's unformatted nfo :| 19:51:23 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 19:52:46 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-88-164.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 19:53:07 *** FloSoft [bouncer@www.siedler25.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:53:08 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:56:53 *** Absurd-Mind [~peter@p54959260.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:00:41 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:04:06 *** alluke_ [~52b528fd@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:04:18 <Eddi|zuHause> has _anybody_ actually seen some dbsetxl 0.9 code? 20:05:20 <Terkhen> unless the code created itself, at least one person has seen it 20:05:51 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has joined #openttd 20:07:02 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:09:38 *** ashb [~ash@callisto.firemirror.com] has joined #openttd 20:09:47 <Wolf01> 'night 20:09:47 <__ln__> Terkhen: not necessarily if it was created by a blind person 20:09:51 <__ln__> 'night Wolf01 20:09:54 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host41-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:14:35 <andythenorth> tip of day from /me 20:14:41 <andythenorth> don't draw windmills 20:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause> what's wrong with the one you have? 20:15:31 <andythenorth> not good enough 20:16:17 <andythenorth> isometric bitmaps and conical buildings do not fit together well 20:16:54 <Eddi|zuHause> you're nitpicking. do some of the "uses default graphics" industries instead... 20:17:34 <andythenorth> just responding to the crowd :P 20:19:04 <andythenorth> hey 20:19:08 <andythenorth> FIRS r1988 20:19:14 <andythenorth> r2k here I come :P 20:19:25 <andythenorth> one commit per character changed - too fine grained? 20:20:22 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 20:28:08 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-161-134.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd 20:32:41 * andythenorth takes advice from Eddi|zuHause 20:32:41 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607&p=943661#p943661 20:32:47 <andythenorth> and does something else instead 20:33:16 *** kamnet [4cb171cd@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:47:46 <frosch123> [22:04] <Eddi|zuHause> has _anybody_ actually seen some dbsetxl 0.9 code? <- i have the action 8 20:52:52 <asilv> I have a grf that claims to be dbsetxl 0.9, I could decode it :p 20:53:05 <frosch123> svt137w ? 20:53:11 <asilv> yes 20:53:20 <frosch123> :) 20:53:29 <asilv> not sure why I have it 20:53:43 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@82.95.127.26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:54:04 <frosch123> iirc it was some nfo example for some newbie on some forum 20:54:12 <asilv> must have been the "oh a grf! must download" reflex 20:59:33 <frosch123> night 20:59:36 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f590d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:54 *** Adambean` [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:25:11 *** Nite_Owl [~chatzilla@c-71-196-91-48.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:25:44 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 21:28:22 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecb73.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 21:29:16 *** Absurd-Mind [~peter@p54959260.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:35:43 *** ar3k [~ident@ecf128.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:42:10 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 21:42:10 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:51 *** FloSoft [bouncer@78.46.208.242] has joined #openttd 21:56:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has left #openttd [] 22:00:47 <Zuu> planetmaker: my personal opinion is that > 2 state buttons are evil. 22:01:18 <Zuu> You need to know their current state in order to know how many pushs you need to do inorder to reach the state you want. 22:01:41 <Zuu> A lot more mental effort than klicking on the option you want. 22:03:04 <Zuu> Yet all hearing aids has pretty much switched from a linear 3-state switch to a single button, often with 3-5 states that cycle. 22:10:32 <peter1138> :S 22:12:30 <Zuu> Where the old mechanical 3-state switch was instant as you knew which movement to make, the new cyclic buttons are much slower to operate. Usually when you get them they have filled it up with music programs, silent programs and whatever which takes forever to cycle through. :-) 22:13:22 <Zuu> Good night 22:22:07 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:26:51 *** Nite_Owl [~chatzilla@c-71-196-91-48.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756]] 22:27:21 <Terkhen> good night 22:28:05 *** KouDy [~KouDy@elite.atlastelecom.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:33:12 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe21dc00-138.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:33:38 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-161-134.joensuunelli.fi] has quit [Quit: asilv] 22:38:50 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-220-139-004.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:11 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-220-139-004.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 22:49:47 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d821cc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 22:53:16 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-88-164.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 22:55:33 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:56:41 *** NOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-107-36.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 23:01:19 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC40E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 23:03:43 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-107-36.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:04:05 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:28 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:31:18 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:35:48 *** zachanim1 [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 23:46:22 <Eddi|zuHause> dear cat. the screen is way bigger than you. yet you manage to fully cover the entire view. 23:49:21 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:52:24 <glx> they're good to do that 23:52:37 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d58-111-77-124.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:56:41 *** Absurd-Mind [~peter@p54959260.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]