Config
Log for #openttd on 6th May 2011:
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06:59:45  <Terkhen> good morning
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07:01:46  <planetmaker> moin
07:03:38  <__ln__> @seen morning
07:03:39  <DorpsGek> __ln__: I have not seen morning.
07:04:00  <ChoHag_> Did you open the curtains?
07:05:56  <__ln__> heureka
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07:17:18  <ChoHag_> :q
07:18:18  <peter1138> hurr
07:21:15  <ChoHag_> Can cargodist load old (generic 1.0) games?
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07:24:04  <Terkhen> it should be, try it
07:24:17  <ChoHag_> Did. Segfault.
07:24:43  <ChoHag_> I wondered if that was basically expected or not.
07:28:47  <Terkhen> segfaults should never be expected
07:29:25  <ChoHag_> Well no, more a case of "I haven't worked on the importing old games code yet. Expect bugs."
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07:32:50  <Terkhen> if that is the case, you will find that information in the patch thread
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07:45:58  <dihedral> good morning ladies
07:46:30  <planetmaker> moin dihedral
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07:47:36  <planetmaker> *prod* *prod*, there's some berries which need some dusting before they can be consumed with even greater joy ;-)
07:47:54  <dihedral> yumm yumm :-D
07:47:58  <dihedral> i know :-(
07:48:10  <dihedral> and they are not forgotten :-P
07:48:19  <dihedral> nor is the grape not forgotten
07:49:03  <planetmaker> :-)
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08:18:44  <Wolf01> hello
08:19:12  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
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08:31:09  <__ln__> http://twitter.com/#!/mikkohypponen/status/66402143325794304
08:36:10  <dihedral> :-D
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09:51:08  <peter1138> is there a premade web interface for openttd servers? ;)
09:51:40  <peter1138> not configuration, but status, etc
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10:22:23  <planetmaker> peter1138, there's dih's ottdlib
10:22:59  <peter1138> is it fully usable without developing stuff?
10:27:46  <dihedral> ....
10:27:48  <dihedral> yes
10:28:15  <dihedral> you want stats over a certain server?
10:32:50  <peter1138> yar
10:33:05  <peter1138> Showing results for stdlib. Search instead for ottdlib
10:33:08  <peter1138> bloody google
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10:34:38  <planetmaker> maybe openttdlib is the better search term
10:35:10  <planetmaker> http://www.openttdcoop.org/index.php?page=servers&s=ps <-- seems like ;-)
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10:35:31  <dihedral> peter1138, either on ohloh, dev.openttdcoop.org, or http://pub.dihedral.de/OpenTTDLib
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10:49:55  <peter1138> gah, stupid server's dishing out the php :p
10:54:39  <peter1138> Fatal error: Class 'OpenTTDLibCache' not found in /home/openttd/public_html/includes/OpenTTDLib.php on line 331
10:54:42  <peter1138> hurr
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10:55:10  <Eddi|zuHause> so much for "out of the box" :p
10:55:44  <peter1138> Fatal error: Cannot use object of type stdClass as array in /home/openttd/public_html/index.php on line 30
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10:58:02  <Rubidium> might Debian's PHP be too new for ottdlib? :)
10:58:19  <peter1138> 5.3.3
11:00:45  <peter1138> yeah, $info['name'] fails
11:00:48  <peter1138> $info->name works
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11:20:21  * peter1138 mumbles about the lack of progress bar during game join
11:28:11  <Rubidium> then either the saving is too slow or your connection is too fast
11:28:30  <Rubidium> as it's definitely there
11:28:51  <Rubidium> only it'll only be shown for downloads when it knowns the final size of the to be downloaded file
11:29:25  <Rubidium> which the server will only know after it has compressed the whole thing, but it might already pushed out 90% of the compressed savegame at that time
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11:32:52  <peter1138> yeah, it's a 2048x2048 map
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11:35:07  <planetmaker> uh... who plays that big maps?
11:35:29  <Markk> o/
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11:38:47  <peter1138> my server atm :p
11:40:22  <Terkhen> they are fun as long as you don't plan on connecting everything :P
11:41:04  <peter1138> it's a scenario, with lots of wide open spaces, not lots of towns randomly placed
11:45:04  <Terkhen> yes, when I play on big maps I'm usually playing scenarios like that
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13:06:59  <Belugas> hello
13:07:05  <peter1138> hi hi
13:07:05  <Belugas> IT'S FRIDAY!!
13:07:17  <Markk> *stab*
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13:07:28  <Belugas> hi sir Nelson :)
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13:28:54  <Alberth> hi
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13:42:01  <dihedral> peter1138, i'll host it for you if you want it :-P
13:50:23  <Chris_Booth_> peter1138: I also have serverspace on my ubuntu server at the moment
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15:11:50  <Belugas> mmh... noise from under the desk.  cpu fan is buzzing
15:11:58  <Belugas> i'm not thrilled about that
15:12:02  <Belugas> so...
15:12:08  * Belugas puts on his headphones
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15:16:33  <Prof_Frink> Belugas: Percussive maintenance?
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15:16:43  <peter1138> i did that once
15:16:46  <peter1138> it killed the harddrive
15:17:42  <Belugas> Prof_Frink, i will not hire you, for sure :)
15:18:17  <Belugas> peter1138, i'm sure you did not told him about the cause of the death of that HD :)
15:18:30  <peter1138> quite :)
15:20:09  <Prof_Frink> Belugas: *Careful* percussive maintenance.
15:24:48  <Belugas> I'd rather go along Bob Dylan
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15:25:18  <Belugas> although that is leading to dusty situation
15:25:40  <Belugas> ho boy...  from Bob Dylan, I'm heading to Kansas hehehe
15:26:08  <Belugas> #The answer my friend is blowing in the wind
15:26:14  <Belugas> #All we are is dust in the wind
15:26:36  * Belugas slurps coffee again
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15:27:31  <Alberth> make sure you do that with the wind blowing from behind you :)
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15:28:20  <planetmaker> hm.. sand-blasted? ;-)
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15:47:28  <Belugas> yeah :) like... Tea in Sahara
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16:23:14  <ragnar76> hi all
16:23:55  <planetmaker> hi
16:24:51  <ragnar76> got a little prob with openttd 1.04 on debian
16:25:02  <planetmaker> update to 1.1.0 ;-)
16:25:32  <ragnar76> from tome to time the ki debug comes up and complains me about roads denied to other players and no vehicles
16:26:16  <planetmaker> you can't destruct roads from other players, if that's your question
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16:26:46  <planetmaker> or is it an AI which has troubles?
16:27:03  <ragnar76> nope, any other player cannot "my" roads i have build and they can not buy any vehicles
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16:27:16  <planetmaker> but you can?
16:27:34  <ragnar76> yes
16:28:16  <planetmaker> And how does it show that they cannot buy any vehicles?
16:28:24  <planetmaker> Or do they just not buy any vehicles?
16:28:36  <planetmaker> Do you have a savegame?
16:28:46  <ragnar76> from time to time the ki debug windo comes up and tells me
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16:30:15  <ragnar76> something like this: game saved trying to build new service: $from to $to No Vehicle available!
16:30:29  <planetmaker> Oh. That's ok.
16:30:36  <planetmaker> It's just a talkative AI, I think
16:31:07  <ragnar76> sorry, brb. eating
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16:47:59  <Alberth> maybe it is trying to buy vehicles from a rail type where all vehicles have expired? (eg normal rail in 20x0 or so)
16:48:26  <planetmaker> or too early
16:48:41  <planetmaker> and none (yet) available
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16:53:38  <ragnar76> back
16:56:22  <ragnar76> i don't play it that log. i love it to place the rails in a 64x64 map. not much space hard to place the rails without crossing
17:03:10  <planetmaker> [18:28]	planetmaker	Do you have a savegame?
17:03:45  <ragnar76> me? only the autosave
17:03:46  <planetmaker> or you can continue to wonder, talk generally about your game, give no detail about the AI used or the game date
17:03:58  <planetmaker> nor the newgrfs used
17:04:32  <planetmaker> well, I certainly don't have that savegame, and you obviously wonder about it. Who else should have it?
17:06:49  *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd
17:08:44  <ragnar76> wel, it's just the debian installation. no extensions and no changes in the prefs made
17:10:28  <planetmaker> right. I guess I give up
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17:12:41  <Alberth> evenink
17:13:41  <planetmaker> hello Alberth & quak frosch123 :-)
17:15:03  <frosch123> moin :)
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17:26:43  <ChoHag_> Are there stations with a specific style for unloading things other than minerals?
17:27:58  <planetmaker> ChoHag_: industrial stations renewal has lots
17:28:01  <Terkhen> depends on what station set you are talking about
17:28:09  <ChoHag_> Oh is there more than one>
17:28:24  <ChoHag_> Can they be switched around without crashing>
17:28:34  * ChoHag_ finds the ? again
17:28:42  <Terkhen> expect crashes and problems if you change any newgrfs
17:28:57  <planetmaker> ChoHag_: You can overbuild stations
17:29:27  <ChoHag_> But that's just a gfx mod? Presumably if I switch station grfs I'm just likely to get some weird stations at first, right?
17:29:56  <Alberth> you presumed wrong
17:30:11  <ChoHag_> Present tense.
17:30:28  <planetmaker> "just" add additional station grfs. Though... yes, changing grfs on a running game can rarely be recommended
17:30:30  <Alberth> it is an extension to the game, and also has its own behavior
17:30:30  <ChoHag_> Industrial stations renewal is the one I'm using. I can only see a specific unloader station for minerals.
17:30:58  <planetmaker> well, there's one mineral unloader, yes
17:32:23  <ChoHag_> Take logging for example, I have a station for loading logs, which fills up with raw logs when it's waiting for a train, but all the log-specific stations do no good for unloading at a sawmill because they're never stock up with logs.
17:33:08  <planetmaker> ChoHag_: you could (additionally) try CHIPS
17:33:27  <Terkhen> stations where you unload never show up cargo sprites IIRC
17:34:36  <ChoHag_> Hmm you're not allowed to add grf to a running game any more.
17:35:43  <planetmaker> that's right
17:36:15  <planetmaker> and yes, on unloading stations never cargo shows, that's right, so CHIPS is not that usuable there
17:36:34  <V453000> CHIPS shows logs
17:36:55  <V453000> afaik it can show logs, coal or goods
17:37:10  <V453000> maybe something else but I am sure about these 3
17:38:21  <Alberth> Terkhen: feeder stations?
17:38:28  <planetmaker> the good thing is, that it does that dynamically
17:38:34  <planetmaker> one tile fits all :-)
17:38:45  <Alberth> nice :)
17:38:49  <Terkhen> cargo probably shows up in feeder station, but not in those where you unload the cargo to an industry
17:38:59  <Terkhen> oh, that's cool :)
17:40:41  <ChoHag_> Oh well I'll live.
17:40:46  <ChoHag_> It's only cosmetic anyway.
17:42:21  <planetmaker> ChoHag_: what I do: I have a preset of NewGRFs which I always use; that includes all station NewGRFs I like
17:42:33  <ChoHag_> Yeah me too.
17:42:39  <planetmaker> Prior to starting a game I select that and then add the game-specific newgrfs
17:42:42  <planetmaker> ok :-)
17:42:55  <ChoHag_> I was trying to make my set prettier.
17:45:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22427 /trunk/src/lang/ (belarusian.txt catalan.txt croatian.txt):
17:45:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belarusian - 3 changes by KorneySan, Wowanxm
17:45:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 4 changes by arnau
17:45:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 3 changes by VoyagerOne
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18:27:35  <ChoHag_> What's a good figure to add to travel time?
18:27:40  <ChoHag_> I usually do about 10%.
18:28:00  <Alberth> 8    it's a nice roundly-shaped number
18:28:27  <Alberth> s/number/figure/
18:28:33  <ChoHag_> Regardless of how long it is prior?
18:28:47  <planetmaker> I like 9. It's square. You can use it in reverse, then it's 6 and 69 is not that bad either
18:28:51  <ChoHag_> Or do you just like the look fo the glyph?
18:32:12  <Alberth> ChoHag_: what do you mean 'add to travel time' ?
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18:32:32  <Alberth> he andy!
18:32:41  <Rubidium> what's with andy?
18:32:45  <ChoHag_> When the timetable autofills, the travel time between each station is too optimistic.
18:32:51  <andythenorth> gnineve
18:33:10  <ChoHag_> I usually set the waiting time to 2 days and bump up the travel time to allow room to make up for breakdowns etc.
18:33:43  <ChoHag_> But I usually just leave them alone and I'd like to make a greater effort this time to have them spread out correctly.
18:33:44  <Alberth> I don't bother with time tables, breakdowns break them too badly
18:33:55  <andythenorth> Alberth: how else do you schedule yacd?
18:33:58  <andythenorth> for PAC
18:33:59  <andythenorth> PAX /s
18:34:06  <Terkhen> hi andythenorth
18:34:12  <andythenorth> hi hi
18:34:19  <Terkhen> I still don't know the uses of timetables
18:34:45  <andythenorth> Terkhen: how are you setting vehicle load orders for PAX with YACD?
18:34:49  <Alberth> andythenorth: I have not been successful in transporting passengers with yacd. I go bankrupt all the time
18:35:08  <andythenorth> it's easy-peasy
18:35:14  <andythenorth> :P
18:35:15  <Terkhen> always normal orders
18:35:15  * Alberth just states 'visit this station'
18:35:54  <andythenorth> Alberth: that works for high passenger numbers, but if there are low numbers waiting, your vehicle will lose money
18:36:10  <andythenorth> especially if there are variable running costs (e.g. NARS 2)
18:36:16  <andythenorth> you need to wait n days
18:36:30  <andythenorth> that might also help the station rating, or that might be voodoo
18:36:33  <Alberth> ah, must try that :)
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18:36:36  <andythenorth> I hate station rating algorithm
18:36:47  <andythenorth> Alberth: if you do, write a patch for default 'wait' value
18:36:48  <andythenorth> :P
18:36:51  <andythenorth> it's very boring
18:36:53  <Terkhen> I'm always losing money, yes
18:36:58  <andythenorth> go to A, wait 1 day
18:37:01  <andythenorth> loads of boring clicks
18:37:07  <Terkhen> with small links I do not bother, I just set an excessive number of vehicles
18:37:33  <Terkhen> the big links tend to regulate themselves, I sometimes set full load at one of the stations
18:37:36  <andythenorth> a % full order would have similar result money-wise
18:37:40  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> Alberth: if you do, write a patch for default 'wait' value <-- one of the timetable patches has that
18:37:52  <ChoHag_> %-full would be nice.
18:37:56  <andythenorth> % full order seems to be a bit invisible
18:38:03  <Eddi|zuHause> ctrl+click on "set time", and it sets the time for all stations
18:38:24  * Alberth wants a patch that can handle break downs
18:38:30  <andythenorth> what would it do?
18:39:01  <Alberth> spread out vehicles evenly?
18:39:36  <andythenorth> an AI that clicks stop/start? :P
18:40:17  <Eddi|zuHause> each travel order should have two times: one "enforced" time, and one "buffer" time
18:40:41  * andythenorth ponders
18:40:53  <andythenorth> articulated ships -> no no no?
18:42:14  <andythenorth> actually what I pondered was trucks with n invisible trailing vehicles
18:42:14  <planetmaker> not no no
18:42:25  <andythenorth> so that 1 truck could carry n cargos
18:42:37  <andythenorth> but that reminded me of the ship problem
18:42:59  <Alberth> ships get tricky due to their size?
18:43:00  <andythenorth> hmm
18:43:11  * andythenorth has just thought of an alternative to rv-wagons
18:43:17  <andythenorth> if I give an RV n trailing vehicles
18:43:26  <andythenorth> and introduce a cargo subtype (invisible)
18:43:34  <andythenorth> players can refit a truck to n trailers
18:43:37  <andythenorth> same for trams
18:43:58  <Eddi|zuHause> but you can't refit individual trailers, only the whole vehicle
18:44:06  <planetmaker> but you still couldn't refit it to various cargos
18:44:15  <andythenorth> was that not patched for?
18:44:23  * andythenorth tests
18:44:35  <Eddi|zuHause> that feature was removed again
18:44:50  <Alberth> a unfeature :p
18:44:59  <andythenorth> oh
18:45:01  <andythenorth> ho hum
18:45:16  <andythenorth> what you should actually have said is "that's a stupid crappy hack you're proposing"
18:45:21  <andythenorth> and "be patient" :P
18:46:02  <andythenorth> hmm
18:46:06  <Alberth> we prefer to wait until the patient himself reaches that conclusion, it is better for the healing process :)
18:46:20  * andythenorth browses forum
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18:46:44  <andythenorth> *does* it make sense to have a bit of both yacd and cargodist in the same game?
18:46:53  <andythenorth> perhaps if you're smoking crack
18:46:55  <Rubidium> yes
18:47:18  <Rubidium> I'd model pax with dest and tourists with dist
18:47:19  <andythenorth> yes, Rubidium is smoking crack?
18:47:27  <andythenorth> oh I see
18:48:11  <Rubidium> as tourists generally go somewhere they can go, whereas pax don't go with "public transport" if they can't reach their destination
18:48:17  <andythenorth> Rubidium: so it makes sense when limited by cargo type?
18:49:28  <Rubidium> yep. Whether we'd want it to happen is something else
18:50:13  <andythenorth> does it make sense when both mechanisms apply to same cargo?
18:50:57  <Rubidium> it'd model reality better, but it'd probably be an implementation nightmare
18:51:55  <Eddi|zuHause> fonso said he'd already have an implementation for cargodist-like destinations on top of yacdest in his branch
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18:58:21  * andythenorth is suddenly a milk tycoon
19:01:40  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: btw, have you seen my patch yet?
19:02:41  <andythenorth> I saw the ticket, haven't tested yet
19:04:48  <michi_cc> Any YACD bug report out there which I forgot and haven't said anything about a fix yet?
19:05:37  <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: handling of industries with lots of destinations but very low output needs some improvement
19:06:32  <andythenorth> michi_cc: not bug reports, but game balance feedback...
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19:07:25  <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: and enforcing each industry have at least two incoming sources
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19:08:12  <michi_cc> 1.2 will split a cargo packet over 5 units into two chunks and over 50 into four chunks, that seems to help. (For FIRS supplies lower limits might be even better, but I don't want to span too many cargo packets.)
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19:09:24<