Config
Log for #openttd on 26th May 2011:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
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05:50:22  <Terkhen> good morning
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06:07:51  <planetmaker> moin
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07:25:21  <dihedral> good morning :-)
07:25:39  <dihedral> good morning Terkhen and planetmaker
07:25:49  <Terkhen> hi dihedral
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07:25:50  <dihedral> "and i greet everybody who knows me" :-D
07:25:56  <planetmaker> hi dihedral
07:26:00  <dihedral> :-)
07:26:10  <planetmaker> but... do we know you? ;-)
07:26:19  <dihedral> hmmm
07:26:26  <dihedral> we need another OpenTTD party :-D
07:26:42  <planetmaker> hm... NOT_REACHED() is evil :-P
07:26:58  <dihedral> how about Ammlers place? :-)
07:28:01  <planetmaker> ?
07:28:04  <planetmaker> oh
07:28:06  <planetmaker> yes
07:28:08  <planetmaker> good place
07:28:33  <planetmaker> wanted to have a short holiday there at *some stage* anyway ever since I drove to Pisa two years ago.
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07:37:08  <Sacro> @seen Bjarni
07:37:08  <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 8 weeks, 3 days, 8 hours, 15 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <Bjarni> thanks
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07:53:13  <dihedral> i know another place which is nice for a holiday - but it's in the last little corner of CH
07:53:51  <dihedral> and i could get access to a house there, which could easily accomodate all visitors :-)
07:54:12  <dihedral> ... the active part of the community who would be expected at such a party :-D
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09:30:00  <fjb> Moin
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09:39:31  <Terkhen> hi fjb
09:39:47  <fjb> Hi Terkhen
09:39:51  <Wolf01> hello
09:39:54  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
09:40:01  <fjb> Hi Wolf01
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09:54:22  <planetmaker> hi Wolf01 & fjb
09:54:36  <fjb> Moin planetmaker
09:54:41  <Wolf01> quak
09:54:56  <planetmaker> :-P quak only works for green rail frogs ;-)
09:55:24  * dihedral chucks some bread crumbs around
09:56:12  * planetmaker ponders... a separate grid sprite for each rail type... or not?
09:57:13  <peter1138> :S
09:57:48  <planetmaker> well... railtypes in the new sense don't need ti
09:57:50  <planetmaker> *it
09:57:59  <planetmaker> but the 3 traditional ones
09:58:10  <planetmaker> might. or might not
10:01:17  * fjb has been away from OpenTTD for an while and hast to catch up with the new features.
10:02:01  <Wolf01> what? new features?
10:06:49  <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/index.php?folder=gridswitch/
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10:07:24  <planetmaker> mind, that those pngs named 'opengfx' are with my personal version of it. Current one would show grid lines similar to ttd base set
10:15:54  <dihedral> interesting :-)
10:16:57  * dihedral likes halfgrid :-)
10:17:08  <planetmaker> :-P
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10:17:20  <planetmaker> half grid is what is ttd default ;-)
10:18:31  * planetmaker also likes 'no grid' though ;-)
10:18:39  <planetmaker> which is the whole motivation for me :-P
10:19:11  <dihedral> no grid is interesting, yes
10:19:34  <dihedral> but to me it seems like here and there parts of the grid are still visible
10:19:40  <dihedral> or at least appear to be
10:20:00  <planetmaker> if you look at ttd*: sure
10:20:16  <dihedral> i.e. at the oil well
10:20:21  <planetmaker> with the opengfx_no_grid: possibly in a few cases...
10:20:37  <planetmaker> yes, there. It has separate sprites which I didn't have w/o grid lines yet
10:21:07  <planetmaker> at least not activated
10:21:19  <planetmaker> I have them *somewhere*
10:21:49  <dihedral> ah :-)
10:22:00  <dihedral> it's definitely a nice change :-)
10:22:14  <dihedral> you play with DM in 2090??
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10:22:30  <planetmaker> I play with my own "DM", it's a custom currency
10:22:39  <planetmaker> which translates 1:1 into GBP.
10:23:01  <planetmaker> (so that I see the untranslated costs)
10:23:23  <planetmaker> I guess I didn't set the euro conversion or so
10:23:46  <planetmaker> maybe I should call it euro straight away ;-)
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10:35:59  <Eddi|zuHause> custom currency needs also custom transitions :p
10:39:03  <Terkhen> I always use euros
10:40:22  <peter1138> should allow decimals
10:40:59  <Eddi|zuHause> if i wanted to play realistically from 1835 to 2010, i would need at least 5 currency transitions ;)
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12:55:00  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 74*7
12:55:00  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 518
12:55:28  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 5402/74
12:55:28  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 73
12:55:56  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 74*7*11
12:55:56  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 5698
12:56:21  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (74*7*11-5402-2*148)/2
12:56:21  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0
12:56:38  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (74*7*11-5402+2*148)/2
12:56:38  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 296
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13:12:02  <Belugas> hello
13:12:13  <Terkhen> hi Belugas
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13:19:15  <Belugas> sir Terkhen :)
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14:07:37  <alluke> now where the hell can i dl australian landscape
14:07:46  <alluke> cant find it anywhere
14:08:09  <planetmaker> I never heart of it.
14:08:50  <planetmaker> you'd need to try the usual places... forums, grfcrawler...
14:08:57  <planetmaker> IF it exists
14:09:51  <alluke> searched both
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14:10:33  <planetmaker> and who says it even exists?
14:10:39  <planetmaker> you should then ask that person
14:10:52  <alluke> i think he has quit
14:11:04  <Yexo> where did you read it exists?
14:11:04  <alluke> ive seen only some screenshots
14:11:10  <alluke> forums
14:11:31  <alluke> the auslandw.grf should be available
14:11:35  <Yexo> which forums?
14:11:40  <alluke> someone reported a bug
14:11:44  <alluke> tt-forums
14:12:20  <Yexo> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=521848#p521848 here?
14:12:37  <alluke> exactly
14:14:36  <Yexo> afaik that was never publiced, it was only distributed to a few testers
14:15:11  <planetmaker> a shame. I'd like to use them for the savannah climate for ogfx+landscape ;-)
14:15:15  * SpComb requests DBSetXL 0.9
14:18:35  <alluke> btw pm
14:18:55  <alluke> when will you update opengfx+ ls with new coasts?
14:19:13  <planetmaker> It is already. Just not on bananas
14:19:18  <alluke> okay
14:19:32  <alluke> how about forests with new trees?
14:19:37  <planetmaker> yes
14:19:51  <alluke> hah youve been fast
14:19:58  <planetmaker> that's not done ;-)
14:20:09  <alluke> k
14:21:10  <planetmaker> except if you use opengfx+industries ;-)
14:21:38  <alluke> or opengfx+ trees
14:21:45  <Eddi|zuHause> don't forests automatically use the tree replacements?
14:21:46  <planetmaker> yes
14:21:51  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: nope
14:22:12  <alluke> default forests dont work with stolen trees
14:22:23  <alluke> ogfx+i ones do tho
14:22:42  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... then i remember wrong... FIRS forests seem to work
14:22:54  <alluke> they do too
14:22:58  <alluke> and ecs
14:24:24  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: yes. Industry newgrfs all seem to use base set trees in their tile layouts. Then it works
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14:24:49  <planetmaker> That is all three, FIRS, ECS, OpenGFX+Industries do it that way
14:25:17  <planetmaker> but default forest has separate sprites
14:26:37  <planetmaker> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/newgrf.php?1=2072:2080
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15:10:09  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the code style concerning braces after "case X:"?
15:10:43  <planetmaker> none?
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15:13:48  <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/221/
15:16:51  <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: http://wiki.openttd.org/Coding_style#Control_flow <--- breaks and FALL THROUGHS must be placed as in this example
15:17:38  <Terkhen> besides that... nothing special I think
15:18:14  <planetmaker> what's the difference between 2 and 3? The empty line?
15:18:17  <Eddi|zuHause> alright
15:18:28  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the variable declaration
15:18:56  <Eddi|zuHause> local variables need an inner block
15:19:05  <Eddi|zuHause> so the {} are needed there
15:19:32  <alluke> swerails have brown tunnel tiles on alpine grass
15:19:40  <alluke> is that fixable?
15:20:02  <Terkhen> hmm... that happened to me too
15:20:07  <Eddi|zuHause> by detecting the grf-id of alpine (and probably also ogfx+landscape parameter)
15:20:10  <planetmaker> in principle yes. you use its custom - provided tunnel entrances?
15:20:17  <Terkhen> I assumed that I somehow changed the palette
15:20:37  <Terkhen> after changing the palette it was displayed fine
15:20:47  <Eddi|zuHause> oh.. that kind of brown
15:20:52  <planetmaker> hu? well...
15:21:08  <Terkhen> since I tend to click too much I did not dig much into it :)
15:21:15  <alluke> i have the new ogfx portals
15:21:28  <Terkhen> portals?
15:22:38  <alluke> normal tunnel portals are temperate green
15:23:44  <alluke> tunnel entrances
15:25:38  <Terkhen> planetmaker: it can be reproduced easily; swedish rails 0.6.0 + ogfx-landscape with alpine climate enabled on subarctic
15:25:55  <Terkhen> err, no, sorry :P
15:26:07  <Terkhen> hmm... I'll keep trying
15:27:04  <planetmaker> :-D
15:27:09  <planetmaker> grid / no grid issue?
15:28:38  <Terkhen> no, it seems to be displayed correctly with grid / no grid too
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15:28:53  <Terkhen> so I'm still inclined to think I messed up the palette somehow before creating my game :)
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15:31:08  <alluke> just make the ground around the portal transparent and itll work
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15:46:29  <planetmaker> alluke: making the ground transparent doesn't work. Tunnels are a PITA in that respect and must match ground
15:54:24  <alluke> pita?
15:54:50  <planetmaker> pain in the rear
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16:00:34  <alluke> :D
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16:48:53  <alluke> gah
16:49:09  <alluke> is there a way to prevent cities building roads on tram tracks?
16:49:35  <Terkhen> no
16:49:43  <Terkhen> they are intended to go together
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16:50:03  <alluke> yeah
16:50:17  <alluke> but its fun to have few tram-only routes
16:50:24  <alluke> like irl
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17:07:18  <Eddi|zuHause> alluke: towns do not build on a tile if another parallel route is already nearby
17:07:39  <Eddi|zuHause> where "nearby" depends on your road layout
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17:34:35  *** George|2 is now known as George
17:45:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22493 /trunk/src/lang/brazilian_portuguese.txt:
17:45:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 changes by Tucalipe
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17:56:12  <andythenorth> hello
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18:02:55  <ChoHag> Can conditional orders be used to make a vehicle wait for a half (or other non-zero) load?
18:04:10  <Rubidium> not quite wait
18:04:25  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a patch...
18:04:31  <Rubidium> but it can be ordered to go back to that station
18:05:18  <Eddi|zuHause> theoretically it would simply need calculation whether leaving the station will return the orders to that same station, and then wait for another loading step
18:06:11  <Eddi|zuHause> it would be really useful with transfers, when capacities do not exactly match
18:06:39  <Eddi|zuHause> e.g if train has 180t capacity and ship hsa 190t capacity
18:07:20  <ChoHag> Yes. I've had to use the smallest available ships for some routes.
18:08:35  <ChoHag> Even though they're slow.
18:11:14  <ChoHag> And I don't suppose vehicles can be told if foo then jump to order bar, then back to here.
18:11:52  <ChoHag> A gosub, rather than a goto.
18:12:20  <Eddi|zuHause> no
18:12:34  <ChoHag> Didn't look like it.
18:12:39  <ChoHag> Oh well it was a nice thought.
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18:13:18  <Eddi|zuHause> well, order lists don't tend to get _that_ complicated
18:14:32  <ChoHag> No, but I have a collection of ships which visit half a dozen fishing grounds, it would be nice if, when full, they can drop off what they've collected so far and then go back to whichever part of the round they were in rather than starting again.
18:14:47  <ChoHag> As it is, the first few on the list get visited more frequently.
18:15:25  <ChoHag> It's hardly a major problem.
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18:32:52  <Yexo> ChoHag: what about this: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/225/
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18:33:15  <Yexo> it takes a few extra "go to dock" orders, but it can be done
18:36:57  * JVassie_ thanks Yexo
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18:46:34  <andythenorth> ChoHag: are you playing YACD?
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19:05:08  <ChoHag> That looks like it would work.
19:05:12  <ChoHag> andythenorth: Yes.
19:05:36  <doug713705> Hi, is it possible to start a server (dedicated/command line) to start with one of the scenario provided with openTTD ? I know the -g parameter but I'm unable to find the name for the scenario !
19:05:51  <ChoHag> Getting rid of the 'go to the furthest consumer industry' has made it far more interesting.
19:06:29  <ChoHag> And add FIRS into the mix and trains become much less useful for a lot of routes, so you have to use a much wider mix of transport types
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19:06:54  <ChoHag> Bugs abound, but it's very promising.
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19:08:56  <andythenorth> ChoHag: for neighbouring fishing grounds, try using small boats running back and forth between 2 fishing grounds with a timetable
19:09:05  <andythenorth> and a larger boat delivering to a harbour
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19:09:12  <andythenorth> if you connect all the nodes, it works well
19:12:18  <doug713705> I'll try to a bit clearer, I try to start an openttd server with this command line : openttd -D xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx -f -c ./.openttd/openttd.cfg -g "France" but it fails with "dbg: [net] Loading requested map failed, aborting"
19:12:53  <doug713705> Is it possible and how to start openttd with the France scenario (the one embedded with openttd) ?
19:14:41  <ChoHag> It looks like -g should refer to a filename.
19:15:39  <doug713705> Yes ChoHag but I didn't find the france scenario in openttd data
19:16:08  <doug713705> That's why I ask if it is possible to start with one of the 'embedded' scenario
19:16:17  <ChoHag> There are embedded scenarios?
19:16:53  <doug713705> Hmm, I thik so. When installing it, some scenario are already here ;-)
19:17:08  <doug713705> think*
19:19:07  <doug713705> I mean one of the scenario in the scenario list you choose from when clicking on "play scenario" at start (approx tanslation, i'm french).
19:20:38  <ChoHag> It will be a file somewhere.
19:20:53  <ChoHag> find /usr/share/games (or whatever) -iname france\*
19:20:56  <Eddi|zuHause> DiagDirection dir = TrackdirToExitdir(TrackToTrackdir(RemoveFirstTrack(&tracks))); <-- i think there should be a shortcut to this, but i can't find one
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19:21:30  <ChoHag> Yexo: That works a treate.
19:21:31  <doug713705> ChoHag : I already try to find in the whose /usr ! no success
19:21:33  <ChoHag> treat
19:22:24  <doug713705> whole*
19:24:05  <doug713705> I think the 'embedded scenario' are stacked in a binary file. That's why I ask if it's possible to start one of them, and if yes, how.
19:24:13  <Yexo> doug713705: try ~/.openttd/content_download/scenarios/
19:24:18  <Yexo> probably inside a tar file
19:24:34  <Yexo> I'm not sure, but it probably is possible to start them
19:24:49  <Yexo> use -g file.scn as argument, disregard the tar file entirely
19:24:59  <Yexo> so for france.tar/france.scn use -g france.scn
19:25:25  <doug713705> I also tried to start a game with that scenario and saved it then tried to pass the saved file to the -g parameter but log says the file is corrupt or something similar
19:25:46  <Yexo> again, use -g filename.sav and it should work
19:26:01  <doug713705> It did not !!
19:26:07  <Yexo> if that doesn't work, open a bug report at bugs.openttd.org with the exact error message
19:26:16  <Yexo> "file is corrupt or something similar" is not precise enough
19:26:26  <doug713705> I'm relayy confuse, I read the doc many times without understanding why it fails
19:28:44  <doug713705> WTF !!!! It works now with the saved file !!! I tried many times without succes !!!
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19:33:33  <doug713705> Ok, here is my fault, according to the wiki I passed the scenario file name within double-quote. This is not necessary
19:33:58  <doug713705> Here is what is found on the wiki : You can also load savegames and scenarios with the -g "<filename>", command line option.
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19:34:35  <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/savannah.png <-- hm, I guess that green as desert replacement is not optimal ;-)
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19:35:00  <Cyberdot> hi there
19:35:23  <doug713705> Thank you for your help Yexo and ChoHag
19:35:36  <Cyberdot> can you help me about passenger in openttd?
19:37:00  <planetmaker> hi
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19:37:55  <Yexo> hello Cyberdot
19:37:58  <Yexo> what help do you want?
19:38:46  <Cyberdot> the coverage of a station over a town have an impact on passengers and mail output?
19:38:59  <Cyberdot> more coverage, more passengers going in and out?
19:39:06  <Yexo> yes
19:39:13  <Yexo> every house can generate passengers
19:39:18  <Cyberdot> i can i calculate that?
19:39:21  <Yexo> so the more houses you cover the more passengers
19:39:23  <Cyberdot> *how can
19:39:37  <Yexo> tile info on a tile will give the amount of passengers it can generate
19:39:53  <Yexo> sum of all amounts you've covered / sum of all amounts in one town
19:40:07  <Yexo> so not really feasible to calculate manually
19:40:29  <Cyberdot> so, say an house have passengers 2/8 means i will have 2 passengers going to train?
19:40:44  <planetmaker> nah. That is the acceptance
19:40:54  <planetmaker> the amount of inhabitants is proportional to the generation
19:41:23  <planetmaker> you need at least 8/8 acceptance of a cargo in order to be able to deliver it to a station
19:41:35  <planetmaker> sum over all station coverage again
19:41:37  <Cyberdot> the house will accept two passangers from the train in that situation?
19:41:43  <planetmaker> no. infinite
19:41:49  <Yexo> there is no limit on acceptance
19:42:15  <Yexo> the total coverage of your station will need to include at least 8/8 passengers before it will accept any of them, but that's the only limit
19:42:28  * planetmaker would like to suggest a look at our wiki
19:43:22  <Cyberdot> that part i already knew, but i don't know how to estimate the real numbers of passengers going to train
19:43:23  <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Catchment_area and friends
19:43:39  <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Cargo_delivery_to_stations
19:44:10  <Cyberdot> i don't saw that page in the manual xD
19:45:05  <Yexo> that's a shame, the Game mechanics wiki page is one of the best wiki pages we have
19:45:20  <planetmaker> the town view will give you an estimate for the max total of that town. per month
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19:47:32  <Cyberdot> btw, the last month output means that in that month if i already had collected that many passengers the rest of the month the train would leave empty?
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19:48:34  <Cyberdot> i mean, if i had that number in passengers before reaching the end of the month, the next train stopping there before the end of the said month would leave the station empty?
19:48:57  <Yexo> Cyberdot: no, it simply wasn't possible to get that many passengers before the end of the month
19:49:13  <Yexo> the cargo is generated no matter how many trains you have
19:50:41  <Cyberdot> i see. that means that each day the town will generate x passengers, wich in the end of the month would totalize that number, right?
19:51:42  <planetmaker> approx. yes
19:52:06  <Cyberdot> i see. thanks
19:52:50  <Cyberdot> btw, for whoever made that remake of ttd, it's a really great job
19:53:23  <Cyberdot> it gone open source without losing the feeling of the original
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19:57:52  <Chris_Booth> anyone know why my 2.0 length trains are slowing down in a corner 2 tiles long?
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20:00:16  <planetmaker> maybe the curve is actually only 1.5?
20:00:52  <Chris_Booth> no its 2.0 planetmaker, V453000 said is Tropic Set
20:00:58  <Chris_Booth> has something funny
20:02:12  <Cyberdot_> i have another question. how do you remove add-ons that you have downloaded. openttd don't have a button to remove them
20:02:33  <planetmaker> use your file manager
20:03:41  <Cyberdot_> sure, but i can't find where the files are stored
20:04:00  <Cyberdot_> i'm using kubuntu, btw
20:05:54  <planetmaker> ~/.openttd
20:06:30  <planetmaker> the readme has section 4.2 on where files are stored ;-)
20:06:55  <Cyberdot_> xD thanks for the hint.
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20:11:47  <Yexo> Cyberdot_: press ctrl+h to show hidden files (= files and directories starting with a dot)
20:12:34  <Cyberdot_> thx :) it surely keeps me from having to hide/unhide everytime from the menu
20:13:31  * andythenorth wonders how to get a dev environment for the openttd django projects
20:14:47  <JVassie> Yexo, did you see my last reply in the BMSS thread? :)
20:15:05  <Yexo> do you have a link?
20:15:21  <JVassie> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=49628&start=100
20:15:53  <Yexo> not yet, now I did :)
20:15:54  <Terkhen> what are the openttd django projects?
20:15:59  <JVassie> :p
20:16:02  <Yexo> yes, that can work the same
20:16:08  <JVassie> cool
20:16:09  <andythenorth> Terkhen: the website, some of bananas
20:16:16  <Terkhen> oh :)
20:16:21  <JVassie> and regarding the possible checks?
20:16:25  <andythenorth> dunno about others (translator?)
20:16:34  <Yexo> JVassie: see http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Stations
20:16:57  <Yexo> and add "type of cargo that appears the most" and "amount of that cargo" and "total amount of cargo"
20:17:10  <Yexo> and a few random bits
20:17:21  <Yexo> and every possible calculation you can think of based on those values
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20:18:38  <JVassie> shall have a peruse
20:18:45  <Yexo> you can see here all the graphic files for chips: http://hg.openttdcoop.org/chips/file/tip/sprites/graphics
20:19:09  <Yexo> click on the filename, than on "raw" at the top to see them in your browser
20:19:10  <andythenorth> hmm
20:19:16  <andythenorth> I should draw more for CHIPs
20:19:29  <andythenorth> when I next play a game...I'll add more cargos
20:19:29  <JVassie> how do you view them Yexo?
20:19:48  <Yexo> click on "buffer.png", than on "raw" at the top
20:19:49  <andythenorth> like he said
20:19:52  <Yexo> top right
20:20:01  <JVassie> ta
20:20:14  <JVassie> wow
20:20:19  <JVassie> so the more you break it up
20:20:22  <JVassie> the less sprites needed
20:20:35  <andythenorth> Yexo: can a tile choose the ground sprite dynamically, based on content of other tiles?
20:20:43  <Yexo> andythenorth: yes
20:20:47  <andythenorth> without you going insane?
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20:21:08  <JVassie> are there any tools that can code stations aside from plain nfo?
20:21:17  <Yexo> if frosch commits his patch one of these days and you don't mind the set becoming nightly only (until openttd 1.2) it's fine
20:21:23  <andythenorth> ok
20:21:25  <andythenorth> does nml have stations yet?
20:21:27  <Yexo> JVassie: perhaps grfmaker, no idea if that does stations
20:21:31  <Yexo> nml still doesn't have stations
20:21:32  <JVassie> in theory it does
20:21:37  <JVassie> never tried it though
20:21:42  <JVassie> i only wrote a guide for trains
20:21:45  <Yexo> neither did I
20:21:56  <andythenorth> Yexo: I'm thinking of sometime adding some buildings / structures that you only want a few of
20:22:06  <andythenorth> such as a mineral loader
20:22:29  <andythenorth> it would be best if it could match whatever other ground sprites are commonly used
20:22:37  <andythenorth> with only one entry in menu for that item
20:22:51  <JVassie> Yexo, is there anywhere you know of i could find a fairly simple and well annotated piec of nfo and acompanying gfx for a station tile?
20:23:31  <Yexo> andythenorth: station var 68, no problem at all
20:23:46  <Yexo> don't need frosch patch for that, so it can easily become compatible with 1.1
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20:24:08  <andythenorth> Yexo: cool
20:24:14  <andythenorth> I'll think of what might be good to include
20:24:18  <andythenorth> doesn't need too much
20:24:38  <andythenorth> maybe should go in a different station class
20:24:51  <Yexo> JVassie: this simple and commented enough? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/227/
20:24:51  <andythenorth> 'CHIPS magic tiles'   /  'CHIPS not-magic tiles' :P
20:25:07  <JVassie> depends on definition of simple really :P
20:25:09  <Yexo> only if there is more than one of such a tile
20:25:15  <andythenorth> there might be
20:25:18  <andythenorth> I'll think on
20:25:28  <JVassie> ill take a look Yexo, thanks
20:26:04  <JVassie> wait
20:26:08  <JVassie> when could we use .ong
20:26:10  <JVassie> *.png
20:26:16  <JVassie> *since when
20:26:18  <Yexo> since quite some time
20:26:24  <JVassie> dang im outta date here
20:26:27  <JVassie> saves me some effort
20:26:29  <Yexo> a year or so? can't remember
20:26:33  <JVassie> heh
20:27:20  <Yexo> 24 oktober 2010
20:27:40  <JVassie> fair enough :)
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20:27:52  <JVassie> are the files themselves available?
20:28:02  <Yexo> which files?
20:28:11  <JVassie> referenced in the nfo you pasted for me
20:28:20  <Yexo> oh, they're probably part of the firs repository
20:28:46  <Yexo> so check the link I gave earlier
20:29:05  <andythenorth> [chips repository] ;)
20:29:15  * andythenorth now makes that mistake often
20:29:31  <Yexo> yes, of course, chips repository
20:29:34  <andythenorth> JVassie: have you got mercurial vcs installed?
20:29:40  <JVassie> mercury wha
20:29:42  <JVassie> :p
20:29:43  <Yexo> =hg
20:29:44  <JVassie> negative mate
20:29:50  <andythenorth> nvm
20:30:02  <Eddi|zuHause> need alpha testers: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/diagonal_crossings_1.diff (drawing rails doesn't work yet, but catenary does)
20:30:15  <andythenorth> ooh
20:30:22  <andythenorth> code :)
20:30:30  <Yexo> I was about to ask what it should do...
20:30:32  * andythenorth gets very demoralised when there's no new code :)
20:30:33  <JVassie> diagonal crossings, nice
20:30:34  <JVassie> :D
20:30:35  <Yexo> that was before I read the filename :p
20:30:44  <JVassie> used to use them many years ago
20:30:48  <JVassie> shame the project died
20:30:54  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: next stop: diagonal roads :P
20:31:15  <Terkhen> NewDiagonalStuff :)
20:31:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: this is old diagonal stuff ;)
20:31:28  <JVassie> custim bridgeheads pls
20:31:29  <JVassie> :p
20:31:31  <andythenorth> hmm
20:31:32  <Terkhen> :P
20:31:33  <JVassie> *custom
20:31:35  <Yexo> diagonal stations!
20:31:38  <andythenorth> how do I apply the diff?
20:31:39  <JVassie> YES
20:31:43  <planetmaker> whiching hour? Cool!
20:31:48  <JVassie> diagonal stations would be win
20:31:52  <andythenorth> normally I apply a patch with curl http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/diagonal_crossings_1.diff | patch -p1
20:31:55  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: with "patch -p1"
20:32:32  <andythenorth> I shouldn't need to download it locally?
20:32:43  <Terkhen> andythenorth: I'm playing FIRS now BTW
20:32:52  <Terkhen> the lime kiln is fun
20:32:52  <andythenorth> Terkhen: with yacd?
20:32:56  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what does not work?
20:32:59  <Terkhen> no, 1.1.1-RC1
20:33:03  <andythenorth> patch: **** Only garbage was found in the patch input.
20:33:14  <JVassie> Yexo, that nfo looks mighty different to what I remember it looking like
20:33:17  <andythenorth> Terkhen: in my games there are too many lime kilns generated
20:33:32  <Terkhen> well, yes
20:33:39  <Yexo> JVassie: did you look at station nfo before?
20:33:43  <Yexo> it's quite different from other features
20:33:48  <Terkhen> one of them (the one I use) is fun, the others are just in the middle of whatever you want to build :P
20:33:51  <JVassie> never have tbh
20:33:54  <Yexo> mainly because the action0 references real sprites
20:34:00  <JVassie> just the general syntax though
20:34:05  <Terkhen> but mostly I'm abusing metal as usual
20:34:09  <JVassie> /Basic layout without a buffer
20:34:09  <JVassie> \dx000003F4 // custom ground sprite
20:34:09  <JVassie> 00 00 00 // x/y/z offset
20:34:09  <JVassie> 10 05 04 // x/y/z extent
20:34:11  <JVassie> for example
20:34:28  <JVassie> the \dx000003F4
20:34:29  <Yexo> \dx000003F4 is the same as F4 03 00 00
20:34:30  <andythenorth> Terkhen: enable yacd :P
20:34:38  <Yexo> but imo much easier to read
20:34:41  <JVassie> hmm
20:34:51  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: weird... i don't know what should be wrong there
20:34:57  <Terkhen> thanks, but I'm fine with dumping all the cargo in the map to the single point :)
20:35:05  <Yexo> you could also write \wx3F4 \w0, that's also the same :)
20:35:06  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and before i forget: needs http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=53483
20:35:13  <JVassie> and \dx means?
20:35:25  <Eddi|zuHause> (even though that is not actually used yet)
20:35:25  <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause, andythenorth: when I get that error message with patch, I usually downloaded html code instead of a real diff file
20:35:47  <planetmaker> JVassie: \d means 4 bytes follow (double word)
20:35:54  <planetmaker> x means: hexadecimal notation
20:36:02  <JVassie> thanks planetmaker
20:36:10  <planetmaker> \w = word = two bytes
20:36:16  <planetmaker> \b = byte
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20:36:34  <planetmaker> much easier to use for actual values which are not nfo IDs or properties
20:36:34  <JVassie> and if its more than 4 bytes?
20:36:34  <Yexo> JVassie: see http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=GRFActionsDetailed
20:36:36  <JVassie> or wont it be?
20:36:39  <planetmaker> that doesn't exist
20:37:00  <Yexo> you can use \d multiple times, but there is no single escape to write more than 4 bytes
20:37:12  <planetmaker> you use \d for example for the long introduction date
20:37:22  <planetmaker> or \w. I forgot ;-)
20:37:31  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I'll declare sad face and do something else then :\
20:37:57  <planetmaker> more than \d doesn't make sense as newgrfs don't handle larger numbers anyway
20:37:59  <JVassie> Quite hard to understand :p
20:38:00  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well have you downloaded the file then?
20:38:02  <JVassie> what this nfo does
20:39:07  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: looks like that might work - got some hunk failures now, but fixing
20:39:30  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... curl doesn't follow the redirect
20:39:52  <Eddi|zuHause> try http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/diagonal_crossings_1.diff then
20:40:05  <JVassie> is Notepad++ ok for writing .nfo in?
20:40:13  <Yexo> JVassie: yes, it was hard for me too when I started with coding stations :)
20:40:14  <planetmaker> JVassie: yes
20:40:30  <Yexo> best advise I can give is to try and copy a few small examples and try to edit them
20:40:35  <JVassie> yeah
20:40:41  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what version of trunk is it against?
20:40:52  <Eddi|zuHause> lemme check
20:40:53  <Yexo> after that write something as small as possible from scratch (using the old examples as reference)
20:40:55  <JVassie> trying to find the files mentioned so I can just try creatign a .grf from whats there
20:40:58  <JVassie> just to check it works
20:41:01  <JVassie> and then go from there
20:41:07  <Yexo> it misses an action8
20:41:37  <Yexo> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/chips/raw-file/e0b7c78e1b5d/sprites/graphics/buffer.png
20:41:42  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: ah wait, needs http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/adjacent_crossings.diff applied first
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20:41:47  <Yexo> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/chips/raw-file/e0b7c78e1b5d/sprites/graphics/groundtiles.png
20:41:52  <JVassie> oh they're chips files? not firs?
20:41:53  <JVassie> :p
20:42:07  <Yexo> yes, sorry :)
20:42:11  <JVassie> no worries
20:42:11  <Eddi|zuHause> eurgs, 404
20:42:53  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: link works now
20:43:21  <JVassie> so a checklist, notepad++, grfcodec, and the latest version of nforenum
20:43:45  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: patched ok
20:44:16  <Yexo> JVassie: grfcodec and nforenum are in a single package now
20:44:29  <Yexo> http://www.openttd.org/en/download-grfcodec <- download there
20:44:32  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and put this into data dir: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=53483
20:44:32  <JVassie> thx :)
20:44:58  <JVassie> still command line driven?
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20:45:10  <Yexo> yes, and unlikely to change
20:45:34  <JVassie> no worries
20:45:47  <JVassie> have used it (and old version) recently
20:45:56  <JVassie> to decode canstations incidentally
20:46:07  <JVassie> to see how they laid out sprites etc
20:46:13  <planetmaker> JVassie: but you have the recent grfcodec / nforenum 5.1.1 or similar, yes?
20:46:32  <JVassie> just downloaded it
20:46:38  <JVassie> i didtn before
20:46:40  <JVassie> *didnt
20:46:53  <planetmaker> ok :-)
20:46:53  * andythenorth would like a faster compiler
20:47:00  <andythenorth> maybe it's time for a new mac :|
20:47:17  <planetmaker> just checking as old(er) versions might give you issues which are hard to understand when one assumes a newer version
20:47:24  <planetmaker> lol @ andythenorth
20:47:40  <planetmaker> andythenorth: when you compile more often, it helps to use ccache
20:47:50  <andythenorth> ??
20:47:59  <planetmaker> ./configure --with-ccache
20:48:02  <planetmaker> but you need it have installed
20:48:09  <planetmaker> it's a compiler cache of sorts
20:48:22  <planetmaker> also, you save time, if you use the llvm-gcc42
20:48:31  <planetmaker> it's faster than the plain gcc42
20:48:40  <andythenorth> maybe I should update those
20:48:46  <planetmaker> you can switch compilers via gcc_select
20:48:53  <andythenorth> it's only a problem when I do something like hg revert --all
20:49:01  <andythenorth> otherwise it's usually just a few seconds
20:49:01  <Eddi|zuHause> aren't they at like gcc 4.6 yet?
20:49:10  <Yexo> yes
20:49:23  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: yes. But ... that doesn't handle the apple specifics
20:49:38  <planetmaker> thus with my gcc 4.5 I have, I can't compile OpenTTD
20:50:01  <planetmaker> it misses the patches to the frameworks etc
20:50:24  <andythenorth> is ncrossings.grf a valid grf?
20:50:51  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, it's a base grf, not a newgrf
20:51:01  <andythenorth> ah
20:51:04  <andythenorth> problem solved then
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20:56:00  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so you didn't implement rvs stopping at diagonal crossings yet? :D
20:56:24  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i haven't checked road vehicle behaviour yet
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20:56:55  <andythenorth> there's an interesting corner case (literally)
20:58:44  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: they likely stop in the middle of the crossing
20:59:12  <andythenorth> maybe
20:59:28  <JVassie> Yexo, I must add -p2 when encoding / decodign still for windows?
20:59:58  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: there's no bug with this afaik - it's just an interesting possibility :) http://tt-foundry.com/misc/corner_case.png
21:00:03  <Eddi|zuHause> JVassie: DOS is the "better" one ;)
21:00:11  <JVassie> meaning? :)
21:00:24  <andythenorth> more grey shades iirc
21:00:41  <Eddi|zuHause> it has more colours and they are more sensibly arranged
21:00:45  <JVassie> so I should encode for DOS?
21:00:48  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: why don't you add it to the base grf straight away? As example I can offer this to you: http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/gridswitch/010_add_grid_sprites.diff
21:00:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Windows is the "screwed up" one
21:00:58  <Yexo> all colours in the WIN palette are also in the DOS palette, the other way around is not true
21:01:17  <Yexo> so just use action14, specify the correct palette and if you start from scratch start using the DOS palette
21:01:18  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i have just taken the old grf from Maedhros, i did not touch it
21:01:32  <JVassie> right.. :D
21:01:43  <planetmaker> well, decode, take nfo and add sprites. Better and not more difficult
21:01:58  <planetmaker> and you have straight away how it "should be" ;-)
21:02:09  <JVassie> ill find chips .grf
21:02:18  <planetmaker> JVassie: I didn't mean you ;-)
21:02:21  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but that also means only people with grfcodec will be able to compile the patch
21:02:24  <JVassie> oh
21:02:26  <JVassie> :x
21:02:43  <planetmaker> JVassie: you should take the original source files and NOT de-compile the grf
21:02:46  <Yexo> JVassie: if you have the original png files like you it's easier to use instead of decompiling another grf
21:02:52  <JVassie> :)
21:02:54  <JVassie> gotcha
21:02:56  *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:02:57  <Yexo> only eddi didn't have the original source files, just a grf
21:03:01  <JVassie> just looking at how to add an action 8
21:03:13  <Yexo> copy from a random other grf and modify the grfid
21:03:26  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: not really. Just provide the changed openttd.grf. And make that a (non-necessary) pre-requisite patch
21:03:49  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: maybe later, when i actually got drawing working ;)
21:04:07  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so you built rail over road corners? that shouldn't be possible...
21:04:13  <andythenorth> no no
21:04:15  <andythenorth> it's not
21:04:40  <andythenorth> it works as it should
21:06:53  <andythenorth> grr
21:07:03  <andythenorth> road is still drawn under tram tracks
21:07:08  <andythenorth> I tried to fix that once
21:07:18  <andythenorth> I think I actually had a patch for it
21:08:50  <andythenorth> any suggestions for structures for CHIPS?
21:09:20  <planetmaker> coal chutes
21:09:26  <planetmaker> or general ore chutes
21:09:27  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... crash when converting rail...
21:10:07  <planetmaker> and... palettes of fruits and vegies
21:10:17  <planetmaker> and barrels of beer
21:10:38  <andythenorth> planetmaker: barrels of beer I'll add soon - they will look about same as milk barrels
21:10:40  <planetmaker> though... barrels could just be barrels and use a re-colour property
21:10:43  <andythenorth> so can do for same
21:10:51  <planetmaker> ^ for that reason ;-)
21:11:34  <planetmaker> an installation to fill liquids into tank wagons?
21:11:55  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: http://ns-research.scotts-dale-division.net/03-Industry-Research/mines/0495-Sprouse-creek/DSC_1264.JPG
21:11:55  <andythenorth> ?
21:12:02  <planetmaker> that's a totally missing thing everywhere. No where tank wagons can be loaded properly
21:12:03  <andythenorth> planetmaker: good point
21:12:14  <andythenorth> there's an oil station in ISR
21:12:21  <andythenorth> it's old and massively out of scale
21:12:31  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what?
21:12:41  <andythenorth> sorry
21:12:42  <planetmaker> yes... but it has no means to properly fill those. It has tanks and stuff. But no pipes to the wagons ;-)
21:12:44  <andythenorth> wrong highlight :P
21:12:57  <andythenorth> that was intended for planetmaker sorry
21:13:30  <andythenorth> planetmaker: adding the pipes I think will be tricky for different wagon sets
21:13:53  <JVassie> Processing file.. does nto appear to be an .nfo file..
21:13:55  <JVassie> hmm :x
21:13:57  <JVassie> *not
21:14:23  <planetmaker> yes... that's true.... but one can assume that a tank wagon is filled from the top and stops in the middle of a half-tile :-P
21:14:42  <planetmaker> JVassie: did you run nforenum before?
21:14:53  <planetmaker> always do that ;-)
21:15:00  <JVassie> how do you mean
21:15:04  <JVassie> just dbl click the exe?
21:15:48  <planetmaker> nope...
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21:15:56  <JVassie> all so complicated >.<
21:15:57  <planetmaker> nforenum blub.nfo
21:16:01  <planetmaker> grfcodec blub.nfo
21:16:16  <planetmaker> hm... grfcodec blub.grf
21:16:25  <JVassie> -d oe -e
21:16:27  <JVassie> *or
21:16:28  <JVassie> no?
21:16:39  <Rubidium> andythenorth: chips shop?
21:16:47  <andythenorth> potato storage?
21:17:03  <andythenorth> chip shop could be on the 'station concourse'
21:17:18  <JVassie> so confusing :(
21:18:02  <planetmaker> Yes, something. nforenum blub.nfo && grfcodec -e -c blub.grf
21:18:35  <andythenorth> planetmaker: http://www.carbis.net/products/view/rail_multiple_hatches
21:18:59  <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes, I've been thinking of something similar indeed
21:19:18  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: cumulative update for convert rail crash: http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/diagonal_crossings_1a.diff
21:20:04  <andythenorth> time for bed
21:20:28  <planetmaker> good night :-)
21:20:33  <andythenorth> (for andythenorth - optional for rest of you)
21:20:37  <andythenorth> :)
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21:37:42  * JVassie concedes defeat
21:37:50  <JVassie> will take another look at it tomorrow Yexo
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21:44:45  <JVassie> or now
21:44:50  <JVassie> Ameecher abandoned me
21:44:59  <planetmaker> hu?
21:45:24  <JVassie> Ameecher
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21:47:00  <planetmaker> well, I know that name ;-) I just wonder how that relates to your newgrf coding ;-)
21:47:54  <JVassie> well
21:48:10  <JVassie> i have literally *just* managed to get my router configured
21:48:18  <JVassie> so we can do some multiplayer
21:48:27  <JVassie> then he announces hes orf to the pub
21:48:39  <planetmaker> :-D
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21:49:06  <JVassie> so yeah
21:49:08  <JVassie> im back to coding
21:49:12  <JVassie> and crying
21:49:16  <JVassie> and pulling my hair out
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21:56:09  <Yexo> did you manage to get that test file working?
21:56:54  <Terkhen> if you are not doing that while coding then you are doing it wrong :)
21:57:18  <Terkhen> if everything seems to be fine... expect the worst
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22:03:52  <planetmaker> JVassie: something which should compile: get HEQS source bundle http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/heqs/releases/LATEST/ and unzip / tar it. Then get also the heqs pre-processed nfo file http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/heqs/releases/LATEST/log/heqs.nfo
22:04:08  <JVassie> :D
22:04:09  <planetmaker> put that in the folder which was created by the heqs source bundle
22:04:18  <JVassie> and try and encode it
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22:04:35  <planetmaker> if then grfcodec -e heqs.grf works, you know that it in principle works. yes
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22:12:44  <JVassie> woohoo
22:12:50  <ChoHag> I'm going to bed, but before I do there's an announcement I must make to all and sundry.
22:12:53  <ChoHag> Ubuntu is shit.
22:13:16  <JVassie> planetmaker, where should i extract the heqs folder to?
22:13:20  <JVassie> within sprites foldeR?
22:13:38  <planetmaker> na, completely separate
22:13:45  <planetmaker> it's a new newgrf
22:13:56  <JVassie> so folder withing grfcodec file?
22:14:00  <JVassie> or even further up?
22:14:07  <JVassie> *within grfcodec folder
22:15:18  <planetmaker> hm... the best solution is to have grfcodec and nforenum in your search path. Somewhere in c:\programmes\. And your grfs in C:\my files\...
22:15:35  <JVassie> hmm
22:15:46  <planetmaker> for now though, just unzip the heqs and copy grfcodec and nforenum into that folder then, too
22:16:00  <planetmaker> but  that's actually disgusting ;-)
22:16:17  <JVassie> xD
22:16:27  <JVassie> dont care as logn as it works
22:17:03  <planetmaker> well. you *should* care. As the proper way makes it LOTS easier in the middle run
22:17:30  <planetmaker> you don't copy word.exe into each dir where you write a text file either, do you?
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22:18:20  <JVassie> xD
22:18:29  <JVassie> but word isnt command line :p
22:18:55  <JVassie> so a full example please of a path for grfcodec and for where the nfo file shuld be pls?
22:19:02  <planetmaker> yes, and it's not blue either.
22:19:56  <Terkhen> ubuntu is not that bad... until you try to do something "different" with it
22:20:16  <JVassie> atm
22:20:29  <JVassie> i have C:/Games/TT/GRFCodec/grfcodec.exe
22:21:34  <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/228/ <-- the dir with heqs should look similar
22:22:00  <planetmaker> if your grfcodec and nforenum are not in your search path (as they probably aren't), you need to copy them there.
22:22:13  <planetmaker> But better you add them to your search path. Then no need to copy...
22:22:21  <planetmaker> But I can't tell you how, I've no clue about windows
22:24:49  <JVassie> search path?
22:27:56  *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:28:04  <planetmaker> where windows looks for programmes
22:28:41  <planetmaker> but I shall follow andy's lead now... though to another bed ;-)
22:28:51  <JVassie> heh
22:29:30  <planetmaker> good nighthttp://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000549.htm <-- something like that
22:29:39  <planetmaker> anyway, good night :-)
22:30:46  <JVassie> nn
22:30:48  <JVassie> thx for the help
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23:17:16  <Terkhen> good night
23:18:48  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the example you gave is missing information on how to add a new action 5 block, and in how far that relates to the order within sprites.h
23:24:00  <Eddi|zuHause> (note that what i put there was totally guessed anyway)
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23:29:45  <Eddi|zuHause> (i think i figured it out)
23:35:45  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... why doesn't it detect my grfcodec and nforenum?
23:39:04  <Chris_Booth> it hates you Eddi|zuHause
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23:59:14  <Eddi|zuHause> @base 10 16 52
23:59:14  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 34

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