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00:00:14 <Eddi|zuHause> on top of many people's whishlist :p 00:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause> not possible, though, and not likely in the near/medium future either 00:02:28 <JVassie> ohreally? 00:02:42 <JVassie> :p 00:02:47 <JVassie> im considering it beign fake 00:02:49 <JVassie> *being 00:03:01 <JVassie> ie create foundations which look like a bridge 00:03:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the professional term is "mockup" :p 00:03:18 <JVassie> indeed so 00:03:23 <JVassie> like the image above :p 00:03:27 <JVassie> and also wooo \o/ 00:03:32 <JVassie> random livery done in NML :) 00:03:36 *** [WOODY] [woodygfx@79.118.33.118] has quit [] 00:03:36 <JVassie> cha ching 00:04:01 <Eddi|zuHause> fake bridges cause many kinds of trouble... 00:04:16 <JVassie> how so? 00:04:26 <Eddi|zuHause> people demanding real bridges :p 00:04:30 <JVassie> hahah 00:04:39 <JVassie> I cannot accept responsibility for that :p 00:05:05 <JVassie> hmm 00:05:12 <JVassie> tryign ti find an example of livery refit in NML 00:05:14 <JVassie> *to 00:06:15 <JVassie> its hard to do in straight nfo anyway, no? 00:06:19 <Eddi|zuHause> JVassie: the other kind of trouble is compatibility with base sets and road sets 00:06:31 <JVassie> indeed 00:06:34 <JVassie> thats a concern 00:06:46 <JVassie> it most likely wont be included 00:06:51 <JVassie> well 00:06:57 <JVassie> 8shrug* 00:07:08 <JVassie> gives me another idea for an advanced station gui 00:07:09 <JVassie> :p 00:11:57 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-220-138-205.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:12:26 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-220-138-205.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 00:26:17 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-113-195.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 00:48:40 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:55:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-240-150.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:01:25 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:14:03 *** ar3k [~ident@ebq4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: âI-n-v-i-s-i-o-nâ 3.2 (July '10)] 01:19:21 *** xi23 [~xi23@ip-85-161-245-158.eurotel.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i think "MSS" is a bad abbreviation, as it is too close to "MTSS" 01:26:11 <supermop> or MLSS 01:48:55 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:54:27 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:b13d:84cd:de62:cd08] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:55:23 *** welterde [welterde@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has joined #openttd 01:55:54 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1076B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:55:57 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1076B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:00:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.190.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:01:28 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B107009.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:06:33 *** Mks [~mks@c83-176-234-98.cust.tele2.se] has quit 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has left #openttd [] 05:09:45 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 05:25:06 *** bryjen1 [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 05:27:17 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:30:42 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:34:32 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:35:10 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 05:50:13 <Terkhen> good morning 05:51:39 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.68] has joined #openttd 06:10:38 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0f84fe.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:12:55 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:14:48 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:18:23 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:27:04 *** supermop 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[5169d783@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 07:16:34 *** grunt_ [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 07:23:07 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-248-134.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:28:53 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-129-109.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:29:25 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 07:31:16 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-013-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:49:11 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 07:52:17 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-103-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 07:52:24 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:59:23 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:02:46 *** Juo_ [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:02:46 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:46 *** Juo_ is now known as Juo 08:03:10 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 08:03:13 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-113-195.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 08:04:31 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B1076B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:13:50 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.68] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 08:35:48 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:54:58 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-103-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:55:01 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 09:15:26 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B79A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:24:06 *** Core [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 09:24:17 <Core> Hello 09:24:26 <Core> Does anyone have any experiance in setting up a server? 09:24:49 <Yexo> Core: would it help you if I said yes? 09:24:54 <Yexo> why not ask your real question 09:26:40 <Core> I doesnt have a set question as such. Just advice and tips maybe. A group I am part of wants to create a few servers for us, I wondered if there were any recommended ways to implement them to include features such as city builder, cross-server chatting auto restart etc 09:27:09 <Yexo> not sure what "city builder" is, but I assume a custom patch from somewhere 09:27:29 <Yexo> in that case you'll have to compile openttd yourself, at least for the server and possible also for clients 09:27:55 <Core> okay 09:27:55 <Yexo> I don't know about any other server that has enabled cross-server chatting, there are several with a game-irc bridge 09:28:01 <Terkhen> auto restart IIRC is a setting in openttd.cfg 09:28:14 <Yexo> either that, or you could use ap+ 09:28:15 <Core> game-irc bridge would be awesum 09:28:29 <Yexo> search for ap+ (autopilot+) 09:28:35 <Yexo> it's somewhere on the openttdcoop wiki 09:29:03 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host109-162-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:29:38 <Core> ok thank you Yexo 09:29:51 <Core> any idea on the irc bridge? 09:29:57 <Yexo> also ap+ 09:30:13 <Wolf01> hello 09:30:18 <Yexo> hello Wolf01 09:30:25 <Core> ok thank you 09:30:26 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 09:30:57 <Terkhen> IIRC joan also was able to do a irc bridge 09:31:08 <Yexo> oh, yes, I forgot about that :) 09:31:10 <Core> Joan? 09:31:27 <Yexo> another project, written to use the admin port of openttd instead of as a wrapper around the commandline 09:31:34 <Terkhen> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/joan <--- also in openttdcoop 09:31:53 <Core> the coop team contribute alot back into openttd eh :) 09:32:07 <Terkhen> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grapes <--- and the bot 09:32:22 <Yexo> in the case of joan it was not written by someone from openttdcoop, just hosted there 09:32:31 <Core> oh okay 09:32:36 <Yexo> in general yes, some members of openttdcoop contribute a lot 09:32:39 <Core> well thanks Yexo and Terkhen 09:32:44 <Terkhen> I have never looked too much into it so I can't help much with the details, I just knew that it existed :) 09:32:53 <Core> certainly given me some greater starting points 09:33:01 <Core> great* 09:33:21 <Yexo> for more details on joan you can ask dihedral, the developer of it 09:40:35 *** [WOODY] [woodygfx@79.118.34.251] has joined #openttd 09:40:55 <__ln__> US Air Force demonstration squadron Thunderbirds practicing in the sky above our office 09:41:58 <Terkhen> no work being done at all then? 09:42:28 <__ln__> not much. looks like they've landed now though 09:43:28 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:44:41 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 09:45:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r22593 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4647]: don't show cargo accepted/produced in the new station window when no tiles are selected (mouse hovering a window or toolbar) 09:47:46 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC584D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 09:49:32 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:50:07 *** Core [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:51:58 *** juh [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 09:52:32 *** juh [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [] 10:07:26 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:15:17 <JVassie> morning all 10:15:18 <JVassie> all morning 10:17:08 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 10:25:28 <Terkhen> hi JVassie 10:39:23 <JVassie> how are we on this rainy and miserable day? 10:39:23 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:37 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:40:04 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 10:43:22 <Terkhen> 35º is quite miserable, but I can't agree on the rainy part 10:44:26 <peter1138> way too hot :S 10:45:07 <Terkhen> it will be around 40 in a few weeks :P 10:50:56 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 10:51:17 *** Westie [~westie@raptor.typefish.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:52:10 *** Westie [~westie@raptor.typefish.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:58:22 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r22594 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4644]: add active NewGRFs to the list of available ones when selecting the empty preset 11:02:42 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:05 *** keky___ [~stefan@p5098b65a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:13:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.184.126] has joined #openttd 11:19:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.190.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:23:57 *** Amis [~Amis@5400C20A.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:28:17 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:35:36 *** Serg [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:36:49 *** TB [~patric@145.118.73.65] has joined #openttd 11:37:34 *** TrueBrain is now known as Guest4825 11:37:35 *** TB is now known as TrueBrain 11:44:13 *** Guest4825 [~patric@145.118.74.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:47:12 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 11:47:26 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 11:50:01 *** Serg [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:03:54 *** Amis_ [~Amis@5400EBD1.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 12:18:57 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c5b7:e708:7405:649b] has joined #openttd 12:19:01 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:20:52 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:22:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i hate it when my crystal ball is right... 12:22:16 <Noldo> why? 12:23:06 <Eddi|zuHause> means people are actually as stupid as i thought they were. 12:25:29 <planetmaker> hehe 12:43:58 *** einKarl [~einKarl@188-194-96-27-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 12:46:07 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 12:47:28 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... can newgrf warnings/errors be displayed in a red box upon start/load, not only in the newgrf window? 12:47:50 <Yexo> errors should be already 12:48:02 <Yexo> only the first fatal error though 12:48:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's only "there was an error" 12:53:24 <Terkhen> only fatal errors, yes 12:54:07 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe, the newgrf window should pop up if there was a warning/error 12:56:12 <Terkhen> huh... there are no mail subsidies? 12:56:58 * Terkhen never noticed until now 12:57:09 <Eddi|zuHause> afair, each cargo has a flag that can remove it from subsidies 12:58:17 <Terkhen> when creating a subsidy between two towns, OpenTTD never considers mail, only pax 12:58:39 <Terkhen> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/954 13:04:10 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-113-195.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:06:09 <Belugas> hello 13:10:05 *** grunt_ [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:18:01 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:18:50 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:52 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:22:04 *** bdavenport [~bdavenpor@mail.companioncabinet.com] has joined #openttd 13:23:05 <planetmaker> Terkhen: but pas and mail generation are directly linked iirc 13:24:07 <planetmaker> hm... though houses can define an individual mail multiplicator 13:25:24 <Eddi|zuHause> err... why would generation have anything to do with that? 13:25:35 <Eddi|zuHause> subsidies are supposed to initiate transportation 13:26:33 <planetmaker> :-) if they're linked by a multiplicator you can look for pax and randomly decide to do mail instead. Thus no new "lookup routine" needed 13:27:35 <Terkhen> I'm making a new lookup routine anyways :) 13:28:22 <Terkhen> why houses don't have a way of defining different cargos for acceptance? 13:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> they do 13:29:39 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. in one of MBs unreleased house sets, houses accept coal. and display smoke animation if the nearby station statistics say coal was delivered recently 13:30:26 <Eddi|zuHause> (but that statistics was unimplemented last time i checked) 13:30:40 <Terkhen> true, I was checking only properties 0D, 0E, 0F :) 13:30:47 <planetmaker> they do, Terkhen http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0Houses#Accepted_cargo_types_.281E.29 13:31:33 <Terkhen> yes, while looking at how to do subsidies without relying in towneffects, it made sense to me to make some kind of cargo statistics for towns 13:31:50 <Terkhen> ideally, the same ones that would be used for additional town variables later 13:32:10 <planetmaker> sure :-) 13:36:55 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i'm not sure whether Ammler is just ignoring, or deliberately misunderstanding what i say... or whether i really think too complicated for other people to follow my thoughts 13:39:42 *** MrD2DG [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 13:39:59 *** MrD2DG [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [] 13:45:36 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:48:11 *** fjb is now known as Guest4833 13:48:12 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFCEE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:53:00 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: it was additional not opposed :-) 13:54:09 <Ammler> hehe, sorry if you got that wrong 13:55:08 <Ammler> I am quite rarely on that forum, I just thought, it might help if I can confirm openttd is working as it should here 13:55:26 *** Guest4833 [~frank@p5DDFEC02.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:04:50 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-223-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:05:29 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 14:10:37 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-248-134.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:24:52 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 14:26:33 * JVassie is back 14:28:46 <JVassie> sooo 14:28:52 <JVassie> what feature of NML to master next? :p 14:29:10 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [] 14:30:17 <Hirundo> The latest addition is proper access of town registers 14:32:00 <JVassie> Im working on trains, not town :p 14:32:02 <JVassie> *towns 14:32:09 <JVassie> far too advanced for me yet xD 14:32:44 <Hirundo> Trains are AFAIK mostly feature complete, there won't be much further progress in that direction 14:32:51 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 14:34:02 <JVassie> Hirundo: I just started using NML yesterday 14:34:06 <JVassie> :) 14:34:20 <JVassie> What im hoping for are stations to be doen in NML 14:34:25 <JVassie> so i can code the MSS 14:35:26 <Hirundo> Stations are very tricky, that's the reason they aren't done yet 14:36:27 <Hirundo> The station nfo spec is very powerful and allows you to do lots of things 14:36:59 <Hirundo> NML implementation of that has to cover (almost) all the features while still being usable 14:37:28 <Terkhen> and less confusing :P 14:38:29 * Hirundo ponders whether to look at stations or extended sprite layouts 14:39:17 <Yexo> extended sprite layouts mostly need implementation, that's relatively easy 14:39:24 <Yexo> stations would be very nice :) 14:39:37 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 14:44:30 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 14:45:26 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 14:48:56 <JVassie> Yexo: did you see my suggestion regardign stations? 14:49:19 <Yexo> I did read something in the mbss 14:49:48 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 14:49:59 <JVassie> its in openttd suggestiosn forum :) 14:50:23 <Yexo> ah, that one 14:50:31 <Yexo> not really possible 14:50:40 <Yexo> the spec is simply not designed for something like that 14:50:42 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-193-233.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:51:25 <JVassie> :( 14:53:14 <planetmaker> Hirundo: stations would be awesome :-) 14:55:49 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009862.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:56:30 <planetmaker> hm, I hope with NML becoming more and more feature-complete that the many (new and old) but often uncharted areas of newgrf become more populated by newgrfs 14:57:18 <planetmaker> with town persistant storage the only immediately missing thing is airports 14:57:38 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... my computer is somewhat warmer than usual 14:57:58 <Eddi|zuHause> but nothing complicated should be running 14:58:04 <planetmaker> adn of course bridges and... docks and RV stations and... 14:58:29 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host109-162-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 14:58:36 <Terkhen> docks have specs? :P 14:59:01 <Yexo> no, but it should be easy to extend the airport specs for docks 14:59:07 <JVassie> oooh 14:59:09 <Yexo> that is, once the airport specs are finalized 14:59:10 <JVassie> that'd be cool 14:59:11 <Terkhen> that would be awesome :) 14:59:23 <planetmaker> Terkhen: I'm just dreaming ;-) 14:59:34 <planetmaker> or... planning for OpenTTD 2.0 :-P 15:00:06 <Terkhen> planetmaker: you jumped from features missing in NML directly to daydreaming :P 15:00:11 <Eddi|zuHause> can newgrfs trigger a news message? 15:00:11 <JVassie> how about for openttd 1.2 we get a rewrite of the station specs? :D 15:00:22 <Terkhen> why should they be rewritten? 15:00:23 <planetmaker> I'm good at that, right, Terkhen ? :-P 15:00:37 <JVassie> to allow the idea i suggested Terkhen :D 15:00:53 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: not directly. Just by the usual events 15:01:12 <frosch123> industries can 15:01:24 <frosch123> e.g. in the monthly callback 15:01:27 <planetmaker> arbitrary? 15:01:28 <Yexo> JVassie: it's not just the specs, those could be extended, the number of map bits used for that is more problematic 15:01:31 <frosch123> but those messages are usually disabled :p 15:01:34 <frosch123> planetmaker: yes 15:01:43 <planetmaker> interestink 15:01:43 <Terkhen> oh, I did not know that :) 15:01:57 <frosch123> just, who enables industry news? 15:02:01 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: hmm... thought of something more generic 15:02:01 <JVassie> map bits are needed for the station build gui? 15:02:02 <planetmaker> :-P 15:02:04 <Terkhen> nobody :P 15:02:59 <frosch123> would town control require creation of news? 15:03:00 <planetmaker> new feature: a random spam message from every industry every month 15:03:02 <planetmaker> will be fun ;-) 15:03:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant something descriptive without immediate gameplay effect, like "In A.D. 2101 - War was beginning" 15:03:15 <frosch123> e.g. monthly or something like that? 15:03:21 <planetmaker> frosch123: would make sense. Like "this town now requires food to further grow" 15:03:30 <JVassie> indeed 15:03:36 <JVassie> would be a bit harsh otherwise 15:03:37 <Yexo> JVassie: not for the build gui, but to store that information afterwards 15:03:38 <planetmaker> or "this town now additionally requires steel" 15:03:44 <Terkhen> frosch123: maybe 15:04:00 <JVassie> Yexo, you mean to actually place the tile on the map? 15:04:05 <Yexo> yes 15:04:15 <JVassie> WTB more map bits 15:04:16 <Eddi|zuHause> something not directly linked to any particular town/industry/vehicle/company 15:04:46 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: then you could only check date 15:04:48 <Terkhen> yes, it makes sense to have news messages in towns too 15:05:06 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: date would probably be enough 15:05:19 <frosch123> sounds like NewScenario 15:05:48 <Hirundo> hmm... extended sprite layouts might have made stations a lot easier 15:05:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but not quite that involved... NewScenario could use complete interactive gui elements, i wasn't thinking that far 15:06:08 <Terkhen> IMO stuff like that should go with scenario data, not in newgrfs 15:06:43 <frosch123> yeah, scenarios sound more like something for squirrel 15:07:21 <Eddi|zuHause> the particular thought i had was a grf with freight wagons, and every few decades you get a news message "speed limit for freight trains is now X km/h", and all existing freight trains get updated speed limits (immediately, or after visiting depot, or somesuch) 15:08:35 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: but that "breaks" as soon as you use multiple train newgrfs 15:08:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: so what? that's the user's fault :p 15:08:51 <peter1138> https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6#diff-1 15:09:30 <Yexo> nice one 15:09:55 <Eddi|zuHause> "rm -rf /usr" sounds painful :p 15:11:28 <planetmaker> scenarios (load and play normally) or game control (load and pre-programmed events)? 15:11:39 <Terkhen> :O 15:11:45 <Terkhen> planetmaker: both 15:12:01 <Terkhen> "game control" could be bundled with scenarios using the new format 15:12:37 <planetmaker> outch, what a fix, peter1138 :-) 15:14:24 <planetmaker> yes... though I'd like actually game control being able to be separate from a specific map 15:14:38 <Terkhen> yes, I agree 15:14:45 <planetmaker> though there are definitely valid use cases to write one which fits a particular map (only) 15:15:17 <Eddi|zuHause> certain parts of "game control", like an advanced subsidy system, may be independent from actual maps 15:15:27 <planetmaker> I still think that for game control the admin port could be extended or generalized... but maybe that's not the way... as difficult in SP 15:15:58 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. like a question window "do you accept this subsidy", and then getting a penalty if you didn't actually set up that route 15:16:46 <JVassie> evil :D 15:16:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but that completely was not the acutal question 15:17:24 <planetmaker> JVassie: that happens if you accept vehicles for testing but don't build them. You won't get new such offers for a few years 15:17:41 <JVassie> oooh ok 15:18:34 <planetmaker> which is not actually a penalty... 15:18:37 <planetmaker> but well :-) 15:18:52 <Eddi|zuHause> it is, if you play with breakdowns off 15:19:06 <planetmaker> why then? 15:19:46 <Eddi|zuHause> you get the engine a year later? 15:20:28 <planetmaker> you get it at the same time ohter players get it 15:20:40 <Terkhen> what else could be part of an advanced subsidy system? 15:20:50 <planetmaker> but depends really on 'penalty' vs. 'advantage' 15:21:03 <Eddi|zuHause> "lack of advantage" is a penalty 15:21:06 <planetmaker> testing IMHO is an advantage over all others. Not having it is not a penalty. But details 15:21:22 <planetmaker> Nah, penalty is below normal ;-) 15:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause> if you worked hard for an advantage, not getting that advantage is a penalty 15:22:04 <planetmaker> which you didn't in the testing vehicle case 15:22:19 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you did, you have the highest score 15:23:33 <planetmaker> happens without much effort :-P 15:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause> different problem :p 15:24:24 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=952196#p952196 <-- your crystal ball, Eddi|zuHause , it's still working 15:24:29 <frosch123> planetmaker: your movement of cb 148 results in more work :p 15:24:43 <planetmaker> frosch123: in what way? 15:25:20 <frosch123> it is one of the "animation" callbacks 15:25:24 <frosch123> which share return values 15:25:38 <frosch123> and especially the last sentence of the cb 148 description applies to multiple callbacks 15:25:51 <frosch123> though of course you can say, that is wrong in itself 15:26:27 <Terkhen> we should group callbacks in different pages :) 15:26:34 <frosch123> grfspecs are at least as tricky as nfo :p 15:28:18 <planetmaker> frosch123: I think we just change "above" to the actual CB numbers 15:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yep, split the whole page apart into individual groups, and make "Callbacks" a category 15:28:35 <planetmaker> I linked anyway every instance of a callback mentioned to the CB description today 15:28:42 <frosch123> but the sentence is not mentioned at the other callbacks 15:28:57 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:06 <planetmaker> yes. It should probably 15:29:30 <planetmaker> animation control as sound control... how funky 15:29:37 <planetmaker> I never noticed until now 15:30:10 <planetmaker> hm... callbacks by feature (group)? 15:31:15 <Terkhen> IMO yes, and a different one for generic callbacks 15:31:47 <frosch123> "feature" as in "trains, stations, industries" is not useful 15:32:03 <frosch123> "feature" as in "animation" might work 15:32:41 <frosch123> or "construction checks/autoslope/custom foundations/ 15:33:36 <frosch123> a table of contents for each feature might make sense though 15:34:35 <planetmaker> frosch123: IMHO feature like 'vehicles', 'stations', 'industries' is what I usually need 15:35:03 <frosch123> well, but a lot of callbacks are the same for various features 15:35:04 <planetmaker> and having them on one page makes sense. 15:35:11 <planetmaker> yes, indeed they are 15:35:14 <frosch123> you do not want to duplicate the descriptions 15:35:21 <planetmaker> definitely not 15:35:47 <frosch123> so, a table of content for each feature, which links to pages grouped by function 15:36:35 <frosch123> callbacks about animations would need some general shared explanation of animations as well 15:36:49 <frosch123> or the slope/foundation callbacks could get an explanation of slopes etc 15:37:33 <planetmaker> I'm not sure it needs splitting actually 15:37:53 <planetmaker> a separate list for each feature might still make sense, though 15:38:52 <Terkhen> callbacks shared between different features get their own page, callback pages for each feature have a link to the other pages if needed 15:39:52 <frosch123> planetmaker: yeah, i guess for the start it does not necessarily need splitting 15:40:08 <frosch123> only if we add some detailed description for a group of callbacks 15:40:31 <planetmaker> hm... we could transclude the callbacks into the feature pages for those callbacks shared 15:40:42 <planetmaker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Transclusion 15:41:07 <frosch123> That only obfuscates that they are the same 15:41:07 <planetmaker> then each CB gets its own page. And feature pages just (trans/in)clude them 15:41:19 <frosch123> (simliar as to shared action 7 and varaction2 variables) 15:41:41 <frosch123> also you would still have exceptions for certain features 15:41:54 <planetmaker> hm? 15:42:30 <planetmaker> if I have page CallbacksVehicles: #include cb15, cb36, cb14, ... 15:42:31 <frosch123> when a callback applies to multiple features, but there are sentences like "for stations this is mirrored, for houses not" 15:42:53 <planetmaker> that's ok, I think 15:43:09 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i broke something... 15:43:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Program received signal SIGFPE, Arithmetic exception. 15:43:24 <planetmaker> Or you add the difference to the individual feature page 15:43:35 <frosch123> that would make it worse 15:43:37 <Eddi|zuHause> src/tgp.cpp:732 *h = (height_t)(((int)h_max_new) * (*h - h_water_level) / (h_max - h_water_level)) + I2H(1); 15:44:22 <frosch123> i consider "making obvious what is shared by features" very important 15:44:42 <frosch123> assume you already learned to code stations 15:44:59 <planetmaker> Ok. Then those shared CBs can get a leading line which states that it's shared? 15:45:04 <frosch123> now you want to do industries, do you really want to check whether there is some sentence more from what you know? 15:45:24 <frosch123> planetmaker: what's so bad with just linking? 15:45:30 <planetmaker> Like "This callback is shared between vehicles, ..." 15:45:35 <frosch123> very transparent 15:46:15 <planetmaker> frosch123: when I write a NewGRF, I like to have the applicable CBs and their way how they work on one page as now. Not click, click, click for each switch block. 15:46:32 <planetmaker> Like a quick overview over this one feature 15:47:54 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... this might be an actual bug in tgp.cpp: if the map happens to turn out completely flat, determining the water level fails 15:49:19 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-065-228-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:50:49 <frosch123> [17:46] <planetmaker> Like "This callback is shared between vehicles, ..." <- could that be done in some automated way, or only via manual template insertion? 15:51:33 <planetmaker> frosch123: I'd add that as the first sentence to that CB's description 15:52:02 <planetmaker> which I'd do manually... the applicable features are given by the numbers, aren't they? 15:52:41 <planetmaker> Maybe it could be done somewhat automatically... the CB description gives all numbers. 15:53:12 <frosch123> some callbacks share the number for different features 15:53:18 <frosch123> e.g. the ai callback 15:54:06 <frosch123> and the sound callback 33 15:54:56 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 15:56:59 <planetmaker> right... interesting, I did not know that :-) 15:57:09 <planetmaker> But... I'd add that there, too. And currently that's not clear either 16:24:11 *** Mks [~mks@c83-176-234-98.cust.tele2.se] has joined #openttd 16:27:43 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: TTW - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 16:30:32 *** ar3k [~ident@ecy160.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 16:31:06 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:31:28 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:31:37 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 16:36:01 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:36:22 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:37:54 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebq4.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:43:09 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC584D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:45:46 <Terkhen> after digging in the subsidy code it makes sense to me to have stats of cargo acceptance inside a town for deciding subsidies 16:45:56 <Terkhen> what exactly is "inside a town" is up to debate :) 16:46:03 <Terkhen> maybe only some town zones 16:46:25 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:47:55 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/User:Planetmaker <-- frosch123 with inclusion it could look like that. 16:53:31 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:56:09 *** ksf_ [~ksf@c168123.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #openttd 17:01:04 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Juo] 17:02:51 *** ksf [~ksf@c171253.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:03:03 <frosch123> so, every callback gets its own page, which are then put together on different pages 17:03:53 <frosch123> hmm, maybe callbacks should generally have some summary information at the top 17:04:13 <frosch123> like, features it applies to, format of var 10, 18 and result 17:04:46 <Terkhen> yes, a common format would be nice 17:05:18 <frosch123> and something like "called from purchase list" resp. "called for actual vehicle" 17:06:18 <Terkhen> yes :) 17:06:19 <planetmaker> hm, indeed, that'd be helpful 17:06:34 <planetmaker> and yes, I'd then give each CB its own page 17:06:49 <planetmaker> s/'d/'ll/ :-P 17:07:52 <planetmaker> Hm... Features as list and ... the latter as list as well? or rather both as table? 17:07:59 <Terkhen> can that be scripted somehow? there are a lot of callbacks 17:08:04 <planetmaker> with 'x' in the appropriate place? Hm... that might be nice 17:08:36 <planetmaker> how does our version template in the OpenTTD wiki work... 17:08:39 * planetmaker looks 17:08:54 <planetmaker> Terkhen: scripting that might be more lengthy than just doing it 17:09:00 <Terkhen> ok :P 17:09:26 <frosch123> planetmaker: for var10, var18 i only mean a short format, like "syxx", where the rest is described later 17:10:31 <planetmaker> sorry, in which respect, frosch123 ? 17:11:15 <frosch123> you were talking about the layout for the summary 17:12:02 <planetmaker> ah. What I linked is basically a 1:1 copy of how the CBs are described now. Just included from their separate page. 17:17:23 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:20:26 *** Pixa [~Pixa@85.210.67.111] has joined #openttd 17:21:05 <frosch123> planetmaker: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callback:_Set_refitted_capacity <- i mean something like that 17:21:27 <frosch123> though maybe with different layout (from template), and better keywords in first column 17:22:07 <planetmaker> he... looks nice, though. I'd try to make the feature thing a tick list (table in table) 17:22:36 <frosch123> for callback with different ids for different vehicles, the first row would look like "houses (1B), industy tiles (25), .." 17:23:52 <frosch123> planetmaker: can you make an example of that 17:24:00 <frosch123> i don't think i know what you mean :) 17:24:04 <planetmaker> trying to :-) 17:24:22 <planetmaker> I first need to figure out the syntax ;-) 17:25:19 *** _goblin_ [~goblin@dslb-088-067-065-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:25:45 *** _goblin_ [~goblin@dslb-088-067-065-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 17:26:04 *** _goblin_ [~goblin@dslb-088-067-065-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:26:59 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-065-228-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:28:28 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:29:50 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... so "run in dosbox" counts as "port" these days? 17:31:03 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I'd say "runs in dosbox" might count as "port" 17:31:19 <Rubidium> but luckily I've got no clue what you're talking about 17:31:46 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=55310 17:32:31 <planetmaker> frosch123: check that page now 17:32:50 <Terkhen> I don't know how is he expecting to run dosbox, IIRC they removed linux support from ps3 17:33:30 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that sounds like loads of stupidity to me 17:33:56 <Rubidium> as *if* dosbox works, then OpenTTD can be compiled natively as well 17:34:17 <frosch123> planetmaker: that will become very long, esp since there are callbacks which only work for some vehicle types 17:34:19 <Terkhen> heh :P 17:34:31 <frosch123> a column for every potential feature is not viable 17:34:41 <planetmaker> then a row 17:35:00 <frosch123> that is also very long 17:35:06 <frosch123> lots of rows with only - 17:35:24 <frosch123> a table is only of use if most cells are filled 17:35:48 <planetmaker> well, ok, then your suggestion it is 17:36:13 <frosch123> any better idea for the texts in the first column? 17:36:38 <frosch123> aslo, should it be this kind of greyish table with lines? or rathe some different style? 17:36:50 <frosch123> or, just create a template and bother later? 17:39:34 <planetmaker> use of a template seems best to me 17:39:40 <planetmaker> or at least a separate table class 17:40:51 <frosch123> so, how to procede? first split cbs to individual pages, or first add those tables? 17:41:50 <frosch123> (i would still keep the page of all callbacks for now, though with those includes) 17:42:57 <Belugas> lovely weather :) outside for lunch, a co-worker and i, both with our cameras. She's taking pictures of buildings, i shoot girls :) lovely, really! 17:43:49 <planetmaker> frosch123: I think adding those tables only makes sense after a split 17:43:56 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:44:00 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:44:06 <planetmaker> and yes, we keep the all-CB page till the split is 100% done, of course 17:44:46 <frosch123> i mean also keep that page afterwards, i.e. a page to include all callbacks 17:45:26 <planetmaker> When all is done, I don't think it's needed. The category page suffices then as it also lists all 17:45:36 <planetmaker> I started with [[Category:Callbacks]] 17:46:12 <planetmaker> That summary page could then still contain the text which now is not individual to the single CBs 17:46:30 <planetmaker> thus just moving that to the special category page 17:46:48 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:46:52 <frosch123> then you could do feature-specific callbacks with categories as well :p 17:47:15 <planetmaker> Yes, one could 17:47:18 <frosch123> i think there is also some use for having all callbacks on one page 17:47:35 <planetmaker> you mean inlined? 17:47:38 <planetmaker> like now? 17:47:52 <planetmaker> didn't you before suggest a link-list only? 17:48:15 <frosch123> yes, successively split all callbacks from the page to individual pages, and put an inline on the page it was before 17:48:36 *** _goblin_ [~goblin@dslb-088-067-065-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:49:56 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: TTW - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 17:51:27 <planetmaker> ok 17:53:28 <planetmaker> so... template or table? 17:57:03 <frosch123> i am not sure whether the rows would be the same for everyone 17:57:12 <frosch123> or whether some might need an additional row 17:57:26 <frosch123> yeah, for example for return values in 100+ registers 17:57:46 <frosch123> can templates have optional arguments? 17:57:55 <planetmaker> they can have default values 17:58:00 <Yexo> also optional ones 17:58:25 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:59:15 <frosch123> or maybe a template for the first columns of that table, while also allowing custom rows? 17:59:48 <frosch123> some cb might have "var 100 this", "var 100 that". some other callback might have "var 100-105: text stack" 17:59:56 <andythenorth> hola 18:00:05 *** k^^ [~k^^@users192.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd 18:00:29 <frosch123> hola compañero 18:00:40 <Terkhen> hi andythenorth 18:01:01 * andythenorth baby -> bath 18:01:10 <frosch123> again? 18:01:32 <frosch123> or is "bath" only a term for general service? 18:02:06 <Yexo> the previous time andy said that was yesterday, right? 18:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> my log says last sunday 18:03:35 *** keky___ [~stefan@p5098b65a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:43 <planetmaker> possibly we should try it with a template, frosch123 18:03:57 <planetmaker> we'll get the return values *somehow* into it ;-) 18:04:15 <frosch123> we should pick some example callbacks to try first :) 18:05:00 <frosch123> can the splitting be done by some bot? 18:05:27 <planetmaker> in principle yes. 18:05:33 <frosch123> which takes a list of a link to the current section and a title for the new page? 18:05:52 <Yexo> split by section, generate page title from section title? 18:05:59 <planetmaker> what I'd do is run it on the current callback page and ...^ 18:06:24 <planetmaker> We should possibly sanetize section names then 18:06:28 <frosch123> should the title contain the callback id, or rather not? 18:06:31 <planetmaker> having callback in it doesn't make sense 18:06:42 <frosch123> (e.g. to not have to change it when adding a feature) 18:06:54 <planetmaker> the callback ids... I'd leave out for that reason 18:07:04 <frosch123> fine for me 18:16:58 *** KouDy [~KouDy@pub212004071029.fx-hfc.datazug.ch] has joined #openttd 18:22:13 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-067-089-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 18:24:40 *** Nite_Owl [~chatzilla@c-24-127-215-180.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 18:24:44 *** Nite_Owl [~chatzilla@c-24-127-215-180.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:26:20 *** Nite_Owl [~chatzilla@c-24-127-215-180.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 18:28:45 <Nite_Owl> No compiled nightlies since the 6th ?? Compile farm problems ?? 18:29:04 <Alberth> we build up the tension 18:29:49 <Alberth> seriously, work was being done on the CF, so that would be a reason. I don't know its state atm. 18:30:03 *** [WOODY] [woodygfx@79.118.34.251] has left #openttd [] 18:30:42 <Rubidium> Nite_Owl: there's a nightly of the 11th, 9th, 8th and 7th as well 18:31:12 <Yexo> just not distributed? 18:31:52 <Rubidium> but we migrated to another hoster and due to some technical reasons the old CF didn't quite survive 18:32:21 <Nite_Owl> Oops - I transposed a number - no nightlies since the 11th... 18:32:26 <Rubidium> (it works somewhat, but in about 30% of the binary build runs it hangs, which means it'll reliably hang each build and thus it was stopped 18:33:13 <planetmaker> frosch123: if you have a good template for me to include right from the start, I could add that during page creation right away ;-) 18:33:15 <Rubidium> and setting one up from scratch takes a lot of time 18:33:46 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 18:33:48 <frosch123> planetmaker: i would need filling in manually anyway 18:33:52 <frosch123> *it 18:33:52 <Nite_Owl> Not a problem short term. I was more curious then anything else. 18:34:10 <frosch123> but i will try some template stuff later on 18:38:00 <Nite_Owl> Thank you for the confirmation. I will wait patiently for a return to normal operations. 18:38:13 <Terkhen> what stats regarding cargo acceptance should be stored in the town? subsidies only need "at least a unit was accepted last month", but it would make sense to store everything town control will need at once 18:39:13 <frosch123> why would subsidies check for an amount being accepted? 18:39:29 <Terkhen> to know if the town can be a destination for certain cargos 18:39:40 <frosch123> shouldn't they check the acceptance in a certain area around the town sign? 18:39:53 <Terkhen> although... I might be mixing stuff here 18:40:02 *** Nite_Owl [~chatzilla@c-24-127-215-180.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 18:40:11 <Terkhen> towns should not be marked as destinations if a industry accepts the cargo, so it might be better to not mix both things 18:40:15 * andythenorth bath.done 18:40:23 <frosch123> there is a difference whether the town actually got delivered stuff, or whether it would only accept it 18:40:31 <Terkhen> s/destinations/possible destinations/ 18:40:33 <andythenorth> does bath have a callback on completion, or does it just end? 18:40:37 <andythenorth> anyway 18:40:45 <andythenorth> did towns get solved yet? :P 18:40:50 <Terkhen> hmm... true, sorry, I was mixing stuff :P 18:40:59 *** [WOODY] [woodygfx@79.118.34.251] has joined #openttd 18:41:39 <Terkhen> andythenorth: prerrequisite, fix subsidies 18:41:45 <andythenorth> oh those things 18:41:54 <andythenorth> can of worms there 18:41:54 <Terkhen> I remember some FIRS problem regarding subsidies, right? 18:41:54 <Eddi|zuHause> bath() terminates if either the water is empty or too cold 18:42:15 <andythenorth> it should call another function in both cases 18:42:49 <Eddi|zuHause> a remote procedure call: "MAAAAAMAAAAAA" 18:43:01 <Terkhen> what subsidies would need is a "is this cargo accepted by any house in the town" stat 18:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: like AIList? 18:43:56 <Terkhen> it is probably not worth the effort to update said variable when houses are built/demolished, as for demolished it would need to loop through all houses anyways 18:44:08 <Terkhen> so... better to not use a variable and loop through all houses monthly instead 18:44:50 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: sorry, I don't know how that relates to subsidies 18:45:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: how AIs evaluate tiles whether they accept a certain cargo if they place a station here 18:46:03 <Eddi|zuHause> so you pick a tilearea that covers the town, and then run the valuator for your cargo 18:46:49 <Eddi|zuHause> if the resulting tile list is empty, you don't have an appropriate area that accepts 8/8 of the cargo 18:46:56 <frosch123> Terkhen: afaik there is some min distance to the town center for a subsidy being rewarded 18:47:10 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: afaik that is solved 18:47:12 <frosch123> so, i guess it should scan the houses only in that area 18:47:14 <andythenorth> how much scope is there here? 18:47:30 <andythenorth> subsidies can only be patched a bit? or subisdies can be rethought entirely 18:48:06 <Terkhen> hmm... the fastest solution would probably be loop through all houses and ignore houses in certain town zones 18:48:42 <andythenorth> I may be out the loop here, and I haven't read code.... 18:48:43 <andythenorth> but... 18:48:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: no single house will accept goods, so you need at least 3 such houses to offer a goods subsidy 18:48:51 <frosch123> what about stupid things like the ttrs gas station accepting 6/8? 18:49:03 <andythenorth> do we know how towns manage their growth cargos yet? 18:49:10 <frosch123> there could be gas stations in the town, but nowhere enough for acceptance 18:49:20 <frosch123> the same might happen for goods 18:49:22 <Terkhen> meh, true, checking houses is not an option 18:49:27 <andythenorth> it would seem 18:49:47 <Terkhen> but checking tileareas for all towns monthly seems... costly 18:49:50 <andythenorth> the issue of 'acceptance for subsidy' and 'are the cargos for growth accepted in this town' seem to be same to me 18:50:03 <frosch123> so, maybe pick some random tile near the center, and then check if a roadstop at that point would accept the cargo? 18:50:03 <andythenorth> the key issue is that we can't rely on houses for acceptance 18:50:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: pick a town first and then only run the evaluation for that town 18:50:44 <Terkhen> andythenorth: right now the only plan is to remove the "towneffect" effect on subsidies, and replace it by something more generic 18:51:12 <Terkhen> why can't we rely on houses for acceptance? 18:51:19 <Terkhen> and yes, choosing a town first makes a lot of sense :P 18:51:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: water tower is not a house 18:51:30 <andythenorth> bank is not a house 18:51:37 <Terkhen> I know :) 18:51:40 <andythenorth> even before we talk about ECS, PBI, FIRS, TAI, OpenGFX+ 18:52:01 <andythenorth> why can't house/industry tiles update a cache on the town? 18:52:05 <andythenorth> of accepted cargos 18:52:15 <Terkhen> why should water subsidies have a destination of "town"? 18:52:29 <michi_cc> frosch123: Maybe a tiny bit overkill :) for subsidies, but http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/yacd.git/commitdiff/d2d24d29b44189e32a6e27c978cf5d36cd224c6e 18:52:29 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: water subsidies also go to industries nowadays 18:53:09 <andythenorth> if industries are to be dealt with (they should be), what about cbs 2B and 3D? 18:53:31 <Terkhen> michi_cc: thanks, I'll check it :) 18:54:06 <frosch123> looks like it could be used, so if it is also of use for other stuff :) 18:54:27 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i'm particularly worried about cargos that get accepted by both houses and industries 18:54:59 <George> If it is ok for houses to accept food and goods as cargoes, which affects town growth, why shouldn't water, petrol act the same? 18:55:17 <George> and the next step is making bank houses ;) 18:55:38 <Terkhen> George: subsidies are being reworked as part of a plan of creating town control 18:56:00 <George> Terkhen: who should accept goods and food? 18:56:27 <michi_cc> Terkhen: That patch is only collecting houses acceptance though, as YACD handles industries separately, but including industries wouldn't be hard. 18:56:57 <andythenorth> the patch can account for cbs 2B and 3D? 18:57:06 * Terkhen can't answer so much questions at once :P 18:57:35 <Terkhen> michi_cc: I'll check the code thoroughly later, but it looks good :) 18:57:47 <planetmaker> frosch123: pages created 18:58:19 <Terkhen> George: in what sense? both industries and houses can accept them 18:58:34 <Terkhen> but I have no idea about which one should accept it 18:58:38 <Terkhen> depends on the newgrf developer I guess 18:58:47 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=Category:Callbacks&action=edit&redlink=1 18:58:55 <Terkhen> andythenorth: account in which regard? if a industry stops accepting something the subsidy dies? 18:59:10 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:59:24 <George> I'm leading to guideline to make banks, petrol stations, water towers to be houses :) 19:00:01 <Terkhen> regarding subsidies, the new scheme should be able to detect those houses and create subsidies with "town" as destination accordingly 19:00:19 <frosch123> planetmaker: is there also an automatic way to replace the stuff on the old page? 19:00:33 <George> According to subsidies, I think cargoes like food, goods, water should be to towns, not industries 19:00:34 <frosch123> i.e. to kill the current duplication 19:01:04 <planetmaker> I guess with a bit offline c&p yes 19:01:26 <andythenorth> Terkhen: I was looking ahead to growth cargos - if a town needs cargo A, but that isn't accepted... 19:01:42 <andythenorth> meh, this is thorny 19:02:04 <Terkhen> George: the plan is to rework subsidies so they don't depend on the cargo towneffect anymore; that way you can have subsidies with "town" as destination using cargos that are not passengers, mail, food, goods or valuables 19:02:22 <Terkhen> but that also means that you can have subsidies with "industry" as destination for passengers, mail, food, goods and valuables 19:02:48 <George> Terkhen: Sounds ok 19:03:29 <Terkhen> ok :) 19:03:54 <Terkhen> andythenorth: towns could get a "cargo is accepted" variable 19:04:26 <Terkhen> I don't know if house/industry newgrfs could be able to use that information to prioritize giving those towns acceptance, though 19:04:58 <andythenorth> hmm 19:05:08 <andythenorth> possibly cb28 would be able to use it by accessing parent town of the tile 19:05:12 <andythenorth> which might be interesting 19:05:30 <andythenorth> but if industry + town grfs are properly decoupled, I don't know if it's actually useful irl 19:05:48 <Terkhen> time for dinner, bbl :) 19:08:48 <Eddi|zuHause> dinner for one 19:11:20 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... anyone knows useful virtual machines on windows? 19:11:57 <planetmaker> done, frosch123 19:11:59 <Eddi|zuHause> $colleague has a computer that he wants to mirror as a virtual machine for backup/redundancy purposes 19:12:05 <Sacro> https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6 19:12:06 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: VMWare? 19:12:07 <Sacro> as bugs go... 19:12:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: ooooold 19:12:21 * frosch123 saw once a guy in a train, botting vista, then starting a xp vm and then starting eclipse in there 19:12:28 <frosch123> planetmaker: \o/ 19:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: how free is that nowadays? 19:13:14 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: no idea... I didn't boot a windows machine in months 19:13:16 <frosch123> no longer warnings like "this page is 70kB and might be screwed up by some 16bit browsers" 19:13:23 <planetmaker> :-P 19:13:44 <Eddi|zuHause> what the hell is a 16bit browser? :p 19:14:18 <frosch123> one that cannot handle editareas with more than 32kB content 19:14:29 <planetmaker> he 19:15:01 <frosch123> i would guess on stuff based on win 3.11 notepad 19:15:27 <planetmaker> sounds pretty pre-historic, though 19:15:44 <frosch123> planetmaker: all links are broken? 19:16:31 * orudge gives Eddi|zuHause a copy of Internet Explorer 5.0 for Windows 3.1 19:16:56 <frosch123> hmm, no, the bot added some links were none were before 19:17:05 <planetmaker> which all linksà 19:17:20 <planetmaker> ? 19:17:32 <frosch123> take a look at the table of the old callback page 19:17:41 <frosch123> some entries are now links, some are not 19:17:50 <orudge> Sacro: that is quite impressive 19:18:02 <planetmaker> hm, to the individual ones. Seems like. yes 19:18:27 <frosch123> well, there were no links before 19:18:34 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: 16 bit browsers were much fun for web designers :P 19:18:46 <frosch123> just a surprise :) 19:18:46 <andythenorth> oh things have changed 19:18:52 <andythenorth> I have been doing this too long clearly :P 19:19:01 <Eddi|zuHause> obviously :p 19:19:02 <planetmaker> hm... some don't work exactly like intended anymore 19:19:13 <planetmaker> but all at least end up in the callback overview page 19:19:20 <planetmaker> thus nothing really broken 19:19:26 <frosch123> [21:17] * orudge gives Eddi|zuHause a copy of Internet Explorer 5.0 for Windows 3.1 <- there was an internet explorer for win 3.1 ? 19:19:30 <orudge> Yes 19:19:37 <planetmaker> yup 19:19:38 <orudge> as I say, up to IE5 19:19:56 <orudge> also, you could get a (limited) version of Outlook 97 for Win 3.1 19:19:57 <Eddi|zuHause> it was not bundled back then 19:20:00 <planetmaker> the funniest IE was still the one which ran un SGI ;-) 19:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause> and i didn't have internet before 2001 19:20:08 <orudge> planetmaker: yep, effectively used a Wine-type technology 19:20:10 <orudge> although not Wine itself 19:20:31 <frosch123> i had win32s for 3.11 19:20:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yep, that one i remember 19:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it came with freecell 19:20:58 <frosch123> it could run freecell or so :p 19:21:55 <orudge> you could run quite a few applications with it if you were careful 19:22:00 * orudge had much fun with Win32s, back in the day 19:22:16 <Eddi|zuHause> it wasn't really perfect 19:26:34 * andythenorth halloumi 19:26:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't like cheese 19:28:12 <Alberth> hidehi 19:30:01 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 19:30:29 * andythenorth likes commits 19:30:39 <andythenorth> and cheese 19:37:29 *** core [5169d783@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:37:38 <core> hello 19:37:42 <Terkhen> michi_cc: are AddAcceptedCargo_Town and AddProducedCargo_Town defined elsewhere? 19:37:44 <Terkhen> hi core 19:38:01 <core> i need help with autopilot 19:38:10 <core> :) 19:38:18 <Terkhen> oh, they are existing functions :) 19:38:30 <core> i cannot get it working 19:39:03 <Terkhen> michi_cc: this code is perfect for subsidies too :) 19:39:13 <core> saying "cannot find package expect" even though I have installed it 19:42:19 <core> anyone? :) 19:42:41 <Terkhen> core: sorry but I have never set up ap+ 19:43:01 <Terkhen> you willl have to wait until someone who knows reads this 19:43:02 <michi_cc> Terkhen: Just note that at least the YACD code is storing the acceptance per 4x4 tiles square, which might or might not be the best size for subsidies. Additionally, acceptance for each square is actually the combined acceptance of the current square and all surrounding squares, i.e. a 12x12 tile area (which I chose because even the smallest bus stop always covers at least some part of all 9 squares.) 19:43:29 <Terkhen> I was wondering about the 4x4 size, yes 19:43:55 <core> ok 19:43:58 <core> thanks anyway :) 19:43:59 <Terkhen> ideally, it should store if a station with the smallest acceptance possible could accept the cargo in some point of that town 19:44:31 <Alberth> core: random suggestion, can you run expect from the command line? 19:44:47 <core> hmm 19:44:56 <core> yes 19:44:56 <core> 1.1 19:45:22 <Alberth> so the install seems to work 19:46:17 <core> What was the IP again? I can't see it from OpenTTD when I am typing it. 19:46:18 *** k^^ [~k^^@users192.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 19:46:21 <core> ops sorry wrong chat 19:47:01 <Terkhen> the ideal thing would be checking 7x7 areas, and storing the acceptance for each tile 19:47:11 <Terkhen> but maybe that's too much information and it can work well with less 19:48:03 <core> it says when running autopilot.tcl: can't find package Expect | while executing | "package require Expect" | (file ./autopilot.tcl" line 45) 19:48:39 *** k^^ [~k^^@users192.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd 19:48:43 <michi_cc> Terkhen: My reasoning was that with a too small search area some towns might accept a cargo at no point, even if a player could easily build a station with bigger catchment, which would be a serious growth hindrance for small towns with YACD. 19:49:30 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:49:51 <Terkhen> that makes sense... even without distant join stations a player should be able to build two or three adjacent road stops without many problems 19:51:24 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 19:51:50 <Terkhen> I think that your reasoning is adequate for subsidies too; if it is quite possible that the player can deliver cargo to the town, the game should be able to award subsidies for that cargo in that town too 19:51:54 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd 19:52:37 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 19:53:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:55:43 <michi_cc> Most important point: It works⢠:) I.e. I tested some values for the least positive and negative mismatches and those were best. 19:58:17 <frosch123> planetmaker: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callback:_Set_refitted_capacity http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callback:_Build_articulated_engines http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callback:_Select_sprite_layout <- these pages can be deleted, right? 19:58:25 <frosch123> the bot created slight different named ones 19:59:01 <planetmaker> for some pages: yes 19:59:03 <Terkhen> michi_cc: that's a good point too :) 19:59:29 <planetmaker> those indeed... though I wonder about the refitted capacity 19:59:31 <Terkhen> and also that (IIRC) no one has noticed an issue with this in YACD 19:59:34 <andythenorth> Terkhen: town control will provide control over subsidies? 19:59:45 <frosch123> you mean the tables? 20:00:07 <Terkhen> andythenorth: nothing is planned in that regard... how would it work? 20:00:13 <Eddi|zuHause> thought: remove "<industry A> to <industry B>" subsidies completely, always do "from <any house/industry in town X> to <any house/industry in town Y>" subsidies 20:01:39 <planetmaker> I wonder though whether it was a good idea to add "Callback" to the page names 20:02:37 <andythenorth> Terkhen: like industry production cb 20:02:40 <andythenorth> monthly / random 20:02:43 <frosch123> i think it was a good idea 20:03:00 <frosch123> or did you mean using a namespace instead? 20:03:01 <andythenorth> game tries to award a subsidy, newgrf allows / disallows 20:03:17 <planetmaker> well, we also have categories for that 20:03:18 <frosch123> but a page named only "wagon length" would not have been good 20:03:20 <planetmaker> which I added 20:03:31 <planetmaker> Yes, that's why I did that. Ok :-) 20:03:41 <planetmaker> I just wasn't sure whether it's a good idea 20:03:54 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: hmm... do you mean "any industry of type X" or "any industry accepting/producing cargo Y"? 20:04:03 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B79A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:18 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: TTW - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 20:05:31 <Terkhen> andythenorth: why monthly/random? it would make more sense to evaluate the callback for the industry/town once that the game decides on a possible source/destination 20:06:30 <frosch123> planetmaker: what are you doing? 20:06:57 <planetmaker> I deleted two pages which are duplicate as you mentioned 20:07:05 <planetmaker> I meant to do that, but was distracted 20:07:08 <frosch123> no, you picked a wrong one :p 20:07:13 <planetmaker> or rather the manually created ones 20:07:18 <andythenorth> Terkhen: agreed - but it might be interesting for town control to be able to specify that there should be subsidies for cargo x/y/z 20:07:18 <planetmaker> uhm.. I did? 20:07:29 <planetmaker> The automatic created ones are right ;-) 20:07:56 <frosch123> you deleted "station availability" instead of "select sprite layout" 20:08:38 <planetmaker> drat. yes :S 20:09:06 <Terkhen> andythenorth: but towns cannot always control both source and destination, in most cases they will only be able to control one of them 20:09:10 <andythenorth> drat is an underused word 20:09:20 <frosch123> yeah, there is a restore function 20:09:28 *** einKarl [~einKarl@188-194-96-27-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:36 <andythenorth> Terkhen: source / destination cargo? or source / destination point on map? 20:09:45 <Terkhen> points 20:10:06 <andythenorth> forget that, that's the business of YACD-alike, or player 20:10:16 <andythenorth> town should be able to specify subsidised cargo only 20:10:29 <andythenorth> mimicks supply / demand in interesting way 20:10:33 <andythenorth> hmm 20:10:40 * andythenorth ponders towns adjusting cargo payment rate 20:10:49 <andythenorth> instead of this silly subsidy business 20:10:56 * andythenorth never uses subsidies 20:10:58 <planetmaker> thanks frosch123. fixed 20:11:42 <Terkhen> andythenorth: but that's what are supposed to subsidies do, they adjust payment 20:11:53 <Terkhen> and yes, towns making "suggestions" for subsidies makes sense 20:12:07 <Terkhen> they could be checked first and if not, choose a random one 20:12:17 <andythenorth> subsidies are a partial implementation of spot prices for delivery 20:12:19 <Terkhen> s/choose a random one/use the current behavior/ 20:12:24 <andythenorth> why not have actual spot prices? 20:12:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D038.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:13:21 <Terkhen> if I have understood what spot prices correctly, those should probably be global instead of local 20:13:33 <andythenorth> probably 20:13:38 <andythenorth> local to towns isn't quite right 20:13:49 <andythenorth> it would need to be per tile, or per 4x4 tile block or such 20:13:54 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:14:00 <andythenorth> but there might be no storage for that 20:14:06 <andythenorth> whereas towns have storage 20:14:22 <andythenorth> and it's not too implausible for a player that there is a price per town 20:15:14 <Terkhen> so you need to display in each town how all cargos are paid 20:15:32 <Terkhen> and rates can change unexpectedly and bring down a line that was working fine previously 20:15:43 <andythenorth> yep 20:15:51 <andythenorth> doesn't work for that kind of play 20:16:30 * andythenorth does some thinking 20:17:35 <Terkhen> the "towns suggest subsidies" idea is not incompatible with the current planned implementation for subsidies, it would only need changes on top of that 20:17:43 <Terkhen> so it does not need any special planning while fixing subsidies IMO 20:17:58 <andythenorth> fix subsidies by deleting them ;) 20:18:05 <Terkhen> also, I don't think that cargo cost belongs to towns 20:18:16 <andythenorth> no 20:18:20 * andythenorth agrees 20:18:27 <Terkhen> what's wrong with subsidies? I like them :P 20:18:36 <andythenorth> nothing is wrong with them 20:18:43 <andythenorth> it's just one more thing to think about 20:18:47 <andythenorth> when coding 20:18:50 <andythenorth> not for me though :) 20:19:01 * andythenorth does ponder 20:19:11 <andythenorth> maybe it's ok to break players' routes 20:19:27 <andythenorth> maybe we should all play smaller maps, with daylength patch, and more micro-management 20:19:34 <andythenorth> maybe 20:19:46 <SpComb> define anti-subsidies, penalties for transporting between specific industries! 20:19:50 <SpComb> keep the player on their toes 20:21:37 <andythenorth> that's the kind of thinking we need :) 20:21:46 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-067-089-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #openttd [] 20:24:05 <Terkhen> you can already do that via newgrf 20:24:21 <Terkhen> if the player is delivering too much cargo from an industry, reduce production to 50 20:26:09 <andythenorth> can't penalise a specific route though :D 20:26:28 <andythenorth> maybe there should be more evil in the game 20:26:52 * andythenorth thinks that FIRS has gone too vanilla 20:27:05 <andythenorth> the stuff like closing industry types at certain dates has been removed 20:27:08 <Terkhen> what kind of "evil"? 20:27:27 <andythenorth> not sure 20:27:41 <andythenorth> pikka is better at evil than me 20:28:07 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:28:41 <andythenorth> I might revisit idea of industry types closing though 20:28:51 <Terkhen> I didn't find PBI evil, it just has a game mechanic that some players might not like 20:29:14 <SpComb> can't transport all my coal to one steel mill :( 20:29:16 <Terkhen> I don't think that a industry that is being supplied regularly should close, that means that it is a "successful" industry 20:30:11 <andythenorth> true 20:33:05 <Terkhen> thinking on YACD; if the industry had a property or callback that determined how desirable it is as a destination, you could model demand decreases over time 20:33:37 <Terkhen> I'm not sure if it is a good idea to mix newgrf specs and YACD, though :) 20:34:05 <andythenorth> probably better to leave YACD do the YACD bit 20:34:24 <Terkhen> yes 20:34:34 <andythenorth> the only thing I thought of as newgrf-needed so far is something to specify 'delivery' sizes for cargos 20:37:10 <core> where is the option to disable news 20:38:08 *** k^^ [~k^^@users192.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 20:38:16 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-31-236.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:38:35 <Terkhen> core: check the second menu starting from the end -> Message settings 20:42:03 *** Amis_ [~Amis@5400EBD1.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:51 <core> advanced options? 20:43:22 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callback:_Visual_effect_and_wagon_power#Visual_effect_and_wagon_power_.2810.29 <-- frosch123, a template 20:43:34 <planetmaker> I think it'll do for now. But feel free to extend. 20:43:44 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:43:46 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-193-233.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:43:48 <Terkhen> core: http://wiki.openttd.org/Message_settings 20:44:02 <Terkhen> looks quite outdated though 20:44:10 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=Template:CB <-- template @ frosch123 20:44:20 <planetmaker> and now... good night :-) 20:44:25 <Terkhen> good night planetmaker 20:44:27 <andythenorth> bye planetmaker 20:45:07 * andythenorth does snow 20:45:08 <andythenorth> it is pretty 20:45:12 <core> thank you Terkhen 20:45:51 * Terkhen codes boring stuff 20:46:04 <Terkhen> you are welcome core :) 20:46:37 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 20:47:30 * andythenorth has coded much boring stuff in life 20:47:55 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Template:Callback <- planetmaker: we work well together 20:48:16 * andythenorth wonders what recent FIRS snow looks like in opengfx 20:48:20 <andythenorth> probably not great :P 20:49:53 * andythenorth checks 20:49:58 <andythenorth> not great 20:50:09 <Terkhen> that's a nice format for callbacks :) 20:52:05 * andythenorth declines to draw all FIRS snowy-ground sprites twice :P 20:52:31 <andythenorth> it will just look wrong with opengfx :| 20:53:07 <planetmaker> that's just wrong then... 20:53:07 <Terkhen> andythenorth: do you have a screenshot of how the new industries look with opengfx at hand? I always play with opengfx and I have not noticed much ugliness 20:53:28 <planetmaker> anyway... I was sleeping ;-) 20:53:43 <Terkhen> good night**2 planetmaker :) 20:54:02 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/snow_go.png 20:54:28 <Terkhen> hmm... is noticeable in the ground, yes 20:54:35 <Terkhen> but for stuff like roofs it shouldn't matter that much 20:55:05 <andythenorth> it would be solvable with advanced layouts 20:55:20 <andythenorth> but as I never use opengfx it's unlikely I'll be annoyed enough to bother fixing it 20:55:34 <Terkhen> yes, I was wondering if it would be possible to change ground tiles easily 20:55:37 <planetmaker> just reference the ground tiles instead of re-drawing them 20:56:09 <andythenorth> not possible with the current template structure 20:56:22 <andythenorth> but would be trivial with advanced sprite layouts 20:56:34 <andythenorth> I tried to code one yesterday, but then couldn't compile 20:56:47 <Terkhen> something to fix later then :P 20:57:22 <andythenorth> it would be useful if the game had magic for action 2 sprite layouts 20:57:40 <andythenorth> so author could just use a bit that said 'give me correct ground tile here' 20:57:51 <andythenorth> for slope + terrain 20:58:07 <andythenorth> even with advanced layout, it will have to be computed by newgrf 20:58:22 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-013-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 20:59:04 <andythenorth> open gfx lighthouse is better than default one, apart from being a bit noisy 20:59:20 <andythenorth> the default one is oversized and ugly 21:01:06 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:08 <Terkhen> I have not played with default graphics for years :P 21:01:17 <Terkhen> I don't even remember the lighthouse 21:01:47 <Terkhen> just checked, it is indeed huge 21:02:06 *** bdavenport [~bdavenpor@mail.companioncabinet.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:08:27 <andythenorth> I had considered to include lighthouses as industries 21:08:38 <andythenorth> accept PAX, Food. Supply PAX 21:09:55 <andythenorth> I discounted the idea as silly 21:10:00 <frosch123> does firs have WDPR wood products? 21:10:11 <andythenorth> that is a painful question :P 21:10:24 <andythenorth> with YACD...lighthouses would be fun 21:10:24 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 21:10:39 <frosch123> andythenorth: i just want to fix the dicrepance between the new wiki and the old wiki 21:10:47 <Terkhen> IIRC lumber was WDPR 21:11:06 <andythenorth> yes 21:11:09 <andythenorth> lumber is wdpr 21:11:19 <frosch123> so, it has that cargo :) 21:11:25 <andythenorth> the issues relating to that are too painful to discuss :P 21:11:53 <andythenorth> it requires a detailed discussion of how chipboard is made 21:12:04 <andythenorth> meanwhile 21:12:17 <andythenorth> YACD might supply 200 PAX / month to a lighthouse 21:12:21 <andythenorth> would that be non-ideal? 21:12:43 <Yexo> 200 tourists a month is not so much 21:13:01 <andythenorth> quite a lot of lighthouse keepers though :) 21:13:27 <Yexo> perhaps it's a good location to fish? 21:14:04 <andythenorth> yarp 21:14:15 * andythenorth should work on CHIPS soon 21:14:21 <andythenorth> that had nothing to do with fish comment 21:14:43 <andythenorth> but it's nearly at 10k downloads, and I am superstitious about numbers 21:15:11 <Yexo> you can work on it and just delay the release a bit :) 21:15:43 <andythenorth> I think delaying the release is quite easy :) 21:15:56 <andythenorth> but 10k is enough, definitely time for some 'new' 21:16:23 <andythenorth> do / should stations have snow support in graphics? 21:16:29 <andythenorth> original TTD ones don't 21:16:38 <Yexo> would be very nice :) 21:17:05 <andythenorth> snow can be drawn 21:17:34 <andythenorth> CHIPS has pleasingly low ticket count 21:17:37 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/issues 21:17:52 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0f84fe.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 21:17:57 <Terkhen> that's an issue: "missing features that cause a lot of bugs" :P 21:18:29 <andythenorth> FIRS has 88 open and 411 closed 21:18:40 <andythenorth> @calc 411/88 21:18:48 <andythenorth> @calc 411/88 21:18:49 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 4.67045454545 21:18:53 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@ris91-2-82-227-26-30.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:43 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@ris91-2-82-227-26-30.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 21:21:41 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@ris91-2-82-227-26-30.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:15 <andythenorth> @calc 88/499 21:22:15 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.176352705411 21:22:22 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@ris91-2-82-227-26-30.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 21:22:26 <andythenorth> @calc 411/499 21:22:26 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.823647294589 21:22:32 <andythenorth> FIRS is 82% done 21:22:49 <andythenorth> on the silly assumption that all tickets are same amount of 'done' 21:23:10 * andythenorth suspects that it should be re-normalised 21:23:12 <Terkhen> and that no new tickets will appear :) 21:23:19 <andythenorth> allowing for NML conversion, it's about 50% done 21:24:05 <andythenorth> depends how hard recreating comments + template structures is I guess 21:25:18 <andythenorth> this would be an easy CHIPS ticket: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2690 21:25:22 <andythenorth> just needs some feedback 21:28:02 <Terkhen> good night 21:28:08 <bodis> when you get a bigger airport available how do you upgrade? 21:28:20 <bodis> destroy old one and build new one? 21:28:32 <bodis> will all plain roots be still the same? 21:28:50 <core> anyone here familiar with autopilot? 21:28:59 <SpComb> bodis: the station doesn't go away right away 21:29:01 * andythenorth -> bed 21:29:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:29:07 <bodis> ahh ok 21:29:19 <SpComb> bodis: it times out after a minute or two if you don't build a replacement station 21:29:27 <SpComb> save first and practice :) 21:29:36 <bodis> k thanks :) 21:32:52 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 21:38:31 *** KouDy [~KouDy@pub212004071029.fx-hfc.datazug.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:42:20 *** Pixa [~Pixa@85.210.67.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:07:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75F05.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:24 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B75F05.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:08:35 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 22:10:35 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC584D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 22:26:08 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:27 <frosch123> night 22:26:30 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009862.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:39 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:29:48 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: Sorry, this packet wasn't exactly a winner] 22:31:24 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@ris91-2-82-227-26-30.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:41 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-48-139.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 22:36:32 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: zodttd] 22:39:37 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-103-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:43:11 *** Boneyard [5af5206a@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:43:58 *** Boneyard [5af5206a@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 22:45:16 *** kermit [5af5206a@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:47:00 <kermit> im running ottd 0.5.3 on a mac. When I download the latest update do I just replace my old openttd icon with whatever I download? I dont need to download new grfx files or anything? 22:47:37 *** [WOODY] [woodygfx@79.118.34.251] has quit [Quit: Screw you guys,I'm going home !] 22:49:00 *** kermit [5af5206a@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 22:52:39 *** hgnmu128 [~hgnmu128@117.204.85.135] has joined #openttd 22:53:21 <Eddi|zuHause> quak 22:56:35 *** hgnmu128 [~hgnmu128@117.204.85.135] has quit [] 22:59:11 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 23:09:15 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:18 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:46:33 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:56:49 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd