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00:09:33 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:20:27 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:27 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe64de00-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 01:11:08 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-31-236.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:46 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A1B30F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:21:10 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:21:42 *** ksf_ [~ksf@c168123.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:23:09 *** Mks [~mks@c83-176-234-98.cust.tele2.se] has quit [] 01:26:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D038.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:26:21 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 01:33:59 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:22 <luQue> is there a good place to get an overview over custom builds? 01:48:20 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1022CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:48:23 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B30F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:00 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B1076B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:55:18 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B10783D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:59:48 *** Pixa [~Pixa@85.210.67.111] has joined #openttd 02:00:54 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1022CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:12:42 *** Ruudjah [~opera@86.93.109.194] has joined #openttd 02:25:11 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-205-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:30:48 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-223-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:32:49 *** Pixa [~Pixa@85.210.67.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:51:15 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c5b7:e708:7405:649b] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:26:59 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:33:41 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sirius.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 03:33:53 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe64de00-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 03:33:57 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 03:36:30 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:37:02 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 03:55:17 *** Mks [~mks@c83-176-234-98.cust.tele2.se] has joined #openttd 04:14:49 *** k^^ [~k^^@users192.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd 04:19:52 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 04:39:46 *** luQue [~lkz@luckz.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:45:11 *** k^^ [~k^^@users192.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 04:46:36 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 04:55:09 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75F05.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:30 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7461B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:02:28 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 05:13:06 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 05:28:48 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:29:49 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:42:09 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B10783D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:50:48 <planetmaker> moin 05:58:24 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:17:09 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:17:14 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0f84fe.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:18:28 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 06:26:15 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 06:29:57 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 06:32:12 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.68] has joined #openttd 06:32:23 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 06:36:09 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:40:21 <Terkhen> good morning 06:48:48 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:50:14 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 06:54:47 *** Amis [~Amis@5400C336.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 07:04:47 <dihedral> morning :-) 07:05:34 <dihedral> i got my car :-) 07:09:17 <dihedral> morning Terkhen 07:10:11 <Terkhen> hi dihedral :) 07:13:28 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 07:19:41 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:31:14 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 07:40:10 <JVassie> Hmm, whats the general procedure for doing a livery refit in plain NFO? 07:40:29 *** [WOODY] [woodygfx@79.118.34.173] has joined #openttd 07:44:29 <planetmaker> JVassie: you need to define a cargo subtype 07:44:34 <planetmaker> via callback 07:44:51 <JVassie> right :p 07:45:16 <planetmaker> switched back from nml to nfo? ;-) 07:45:25 <JVassie> lol no 07:45:36 <JVassie> just seeing if understanding the nfo would help me get on with the NML :) 07:45:46 <Terkhen> in stuff like engines, make sure that either you use a special cargo or have capacity = 0 07:45:56 <Terkhen> unless they are supposed to have capacity :P 07:46:14 <planetmaker> JVassie: I bet rather not. Of course such knowledge doesn't hurt with adv. things 07:46:33 <planetmaker> again... look at the flatbed wagon 07:46:34 <JVassie> well engines normally wont have capacity I guess 07:46:36 <Terkhen> there is an annoying bug in the spain set with this... with cargo trains picking up a single passenger in their locomotive and leaving with their wagons almost empty 07:46:47 <planetmaker> lol 07:46:51 <JVassie> planetmaker: I did, but because i didnt understand what I was looking for, I think it eluded me :p 07:48:51 <planetmaker> hm... the flatbed wagon hasn't different liveries for the same cargo... 07:49:53 <JVassie> :/ 07:49:59 <JVassie> :D 07:50:14 <planetmaker> still... you need to define different sub cargos for the same cargo and then query the refit_cycle to chose the proper graphics set 07:58:58 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/286/ <-- JVassie 07:59:17 <JVassie> thanks mate 07:59:20 <JVassie> i shall peruse :) 07:59:23 <planetmaker> untested but I think it should work, or similar 07:59:45 <JVassie> the spriteset templates just produce a standard spriteset with 8 views? 08:00:44 <JVassie> switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, flatbed_wagon_ensp_livery_switch, refit_cycle) { 08:00:45 <JVassie> 0: flatbed_wagon_engineeringsupplies_vehicle1_group; 08:00:45 <JVassie> flatbed_wagon_engineeringsupplies_vehicle2_group; 08:00:45 <JVassie> } 08:00:55 <JVassie> should that 2nd line not start with 1: ? 08:02:38 <planetmaker> why? 08:03:27 <JVassie> dunno, just checking :p 08:03:50 <JVassie> so that switch changes the graphics during the refit cycle 08:04:05 <JVassie> switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, flatbed_wagon_cb_cargo_suffix_switch, cargo_type_in_veh) { 08:04:05 <JVassie> ENSP: return string(STR_FLATBED_WAGON_CARGO_SUBTYPE_MACHINERY); 08:04:05 <JVassie> ENSP: return string(STR_FLATBED_WAGON_CARGO_SUBTYPE_VEHICLES1); 08:04:05 <JVassie> CB_FAILED; 08:04:06 <JVassie> } 08:04:39 <JVassie> this switch provides the two strings for use, but not sure how the cargo types come into it 08:04:43 <JVassie> as theyre both the same 08:05:21 <planetmaker> you wanted that, didn't you? 08:05:56 <planetmaker> If you just want different looks for different cargos... just query cargo_type_in_veh and chose graphics accordingly 08:06:05 <planetmaker> then you don't need the CB 08:07:43 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/287/ <- just like this 08:07:45 <planetmaker> and be done 08:09:18 <planetmaker> what I showed you in the first paste is means to allow the player to explicitly choose different looks for the _same_ cargo 08:11:48 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@ris91-2-82-227-26-30.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 08:14:16 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: TTW - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 08:17:48 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 08:23:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:23:38 <andythenorth> morn 08:25:28 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:26:46 <andythenorth> multi-stop docks would be fun 08:27:15 <andythenorth> also...do I get an opinion on this? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2690 08:27:30 <andythenorth> crowd-sourcing is so much easier than Just Making A Decision :P 08:28:39 <planetmaker> option B: auto-magic and manual tiles, both make sense 08:29:00 <planetmaker> though the manual tiles probably need be only a small subset 08:29:09 <andythenorth> I think there will be about 12 or so 08:29:18 <andythenorth> +/- 8 08:29:21 <planetmaker> Like it needs not separate tiles for each cargo. But the building or so could be a separate tile 08:29:34 <andythenorth> yup 08:29:36 <andythenorth> ok thanks 08:29:39 <andythenorth> decision made 08:30:37 <andythenorth> means switching menus... 08:30:42 <andythenorth> kind of fiddly? 08:34:58 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-31-236.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 08:35:55 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:46:03 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:46:07 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:48:36 *** [WOODY] [woodygfx@79.118.34.173] has quit [Quit: Screw you guys,I'm going home !] 08:48:55 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC57DC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:52:12 <JVassie> <planetmaker> what I showed you in the first paste is means to allow the player to explicitly choose different looks for the _same_ cargo 08:52:16 <JVassie> thats what i wanted :) 08:52:43 <JVassie> but, in the case where its an engine and has 0 capacity, how does it change that? 08:55:59 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest4946 08:55:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:00:33 *** Guest4946 [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:01:08 *** Eddi|nichZuHause [~EddinichZ@46.115.2.70] has joined #openttd 09:01:17 <Eddi|nichZuHause> mÀh 09:02:59 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:08:10 <Alberth> hi eddie 09:08:20 <Alberth> *eddi (Sorry!) 09:08:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B30F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:09:03 <planetmaker> [10:31] andythenorth means switching menus... <-- I don't think. from my own style of building I need two modes: the automatic one-click-fits-whole-station and the I-want-it-exactly-that 09:09:11 <planetmaker> thus it can be two menu entries just as well 09:09:48 <andythenorth> the edge case for me is PAX faciliities 09:09:54 <andythenorth> but there I use default station personally 09:09:58 <planetmaker> JVassie: also by the sub-"cargo" callback 09:09:59 <andythenorth> so I have to switch anyway 09:10:20 <planetmaker> that doesn't need a cargo, it just offers different strings which then will give you a different sub-"cargo" 09:10:41 <planetmaker> andythenorth: pax and cargo stations in different menus don't hurt 09:11:02 <andythenorth> I guess not 09:12:09 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:14:27 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:14:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:15:53 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.68] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 09:37:28 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 09:44:54 *** Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> solenoid.oftc.net quits: SpComb^, Mazur, HerzogDeXtEr1, elmz, Strid, Mks, pugi, Ammler, Progman, Qantourisc, (+15 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 09:46:10 *** Netsplit over, joins: George, SpComb^, SmatZ, Progman, pugi, Juo, DayDreamer, elmz, Mks, Kurimus (+15 more) 09:46:11 *** mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ 09:46:11 *** mode/#openttd [+v Yexo] by ChanServ 09:46:14 *** mode/#openttd [+o SmatZ] by ChanServ 09:46:27 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:06:31 <JVassie> woah 10:06:33 <JVassie> channel fail 10:34:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-92-27-53-189.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 10:36:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-92-27-53-189.static.as13285.net] has quit [] 10:46:52 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 11:06:11 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:12:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.166.145] has joined #openttd 11:16:15 <planetmaker> set design input needed: wrt rail wagons I'd like to introduce some progress in time. One lever is speed limit. Silently increase it for the same wagons over time? 11:16:20 <planetmaker> I don't want to spam the build list 11:16:30 *** Ruudjah [~opera@86.93.109.194] has left #openttd [] 11:16:46 <planetmaker> with like 5 generations for each wagon 11:17:23 <Yexo> could you detect the "never expire vehicles" flag and make it depend on that? 11:17:46 <planetmaker> Hm, I thought of that. 11:17:48 <Yexo> when on, silently upgrade existing wagons. When off, add new wagons 11:18:16 <planetmaker> only with 'never expire = off' one would then be able to autoreplace them 11:18:21 <planetmaker> but that's probably fine then 11:18:41 <Yexo> if you upgrade old wagons you can still decide to upgrade all wagons 11:18:50 <Yexo> ie make it depend on current_date, not build_date 11:18:57 <planetmaker> hm? 11:19:10 <planetmaker> I wonder mostly about the 'never expire=on' 11:19:24 <Terkhen> will you be able to disable speed limits? 11:19:35 <planetmaker> or rather: does autoreplace or autorenew work to upgrade to the new version? 11:19:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.184.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:19:48 <planetmaker> Terkhen: disable speed limits is an adv. setting. so: yes 11:19:54 <planetmaker> it's out of newgrf control 11:19:55 <Terkhen> ok :P 11:19:56 <Yexo> planetmaker: autorenew doesn't work for wagons 11:20:04 <Yexo> and autoreplace does, but only to another vehicleid 11:20:05 *** k^^ [~k^^@users192.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd 11:20:15 <Terkhen> but if speed limits is off, will you have a lot of identical wagons? 11:20:16 <Eddi|nichZuHause> <@planetmaker> set design input needed: wrt rail wagons I'd like to introduce some progress in time. One lever is speed limit. Silently increase it for the same wagons over time? <-- yes, that was my thought as well, that's why i asked whether a newgrf could issue a news message like "wagon speed limit is now X" 11:20:20 <planetmaker> hm... ok, so I'll need new IDs in the 'expire' case 11:20:44 <Yexo> planetmaker: why? why not upgrade _existing_ wagons as well? 11:21:08 <planetmaker> and change them while they're running on the tracks? 11:21:17 <Yexo> yes 11:21:35 <Yexo> <planetmaker> hm... ok, so I'll need new IDs in the 'expire' case <- was that about "vehicles never expire = on"? 11:21:40 <Terkhen> IIRC those changes only happen in depots 11:22:00 <Yexo> that should be fine 11:22:07 <Eddi|nichZuHause> speed limit callback might be run on track change as well? 11:22:18 <planetmaker> Yexo: in order to not flood the purchase list I can use different IDs in the 'expire=on' case. But in the 'expire=never' case, I'd not like to do that 11:22:32 <planetmaker> as 3 or 4 flatbed wagons are boring 11:22:35 <Yexo> planetmaker: I agree 11:22:52 <Yexo> I misunderstood "the 'expire' case" as "expire=never" 11:23:01 <peter1138> upgrading whilst on track is wrong 11:23:07 <peter1138> (or on road) 11:23:31 <planetmaker> Upgrading in depot... might work via CB 11:23:49 <planetmaker> silently so-to-speak 11:24:17 <peter1138> in the depot is fine, i think 11:24:29 <peter1138> just be wary of network consistency 11:24:44 <planetmaker> in what way, peter1138 ? 11:26:07 <planetmaker> hm... so I'll have to check something like 'days since last service' wrt the intro date of a new wagon generation 11:26:12 <planetmaker> that might work 11:26:31 <planetmaker> though it'll be nice to give the user also the choice to NOT upgrade automatically 11:27:23 <planetmaker> but that then only is viable with different IDs, right? Hm... I do have the purchase date, do I? 11:27:55 <Yexo> newgrf parameter to switch between upgrading / not upgrading automatically / introduce different vehicles 11:28:10 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 11:28:17 <planetmaker> and... the different versions as sub cargos. Where only the newest is available, but nothing changes when no refit is done... 11:28:20 <planetmaker> feasible? 11:28:46 <Yexo> can you set a subcargo on build? 11:28:52 <planetmaker> No 11:28:58 <planetmaker> Only on refit 11:29:04 <planetmaker> Hm... 11:29:10 <Terkhen> can you decide which refits are available? 11:29:12 <Yexo> there are bugs with refit wrt to subcargos 11:29:17 <Yexo> so that's not a good idea 11:29:20 <Yexo> Terkhen: yes 11:29:39 <planetmaker> a normal CB chain can contain date 11:29:46 <Terkhen> I was thinking that you could "force" a refit by making only the one you want available 11:29:54 <Terkhen> but yes, there are bugs with cargo subtypes 11:30:33 <Yexo> https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/3764 11:30:59 <__ln__> http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2011/06/16/andalucia_sevilla/1308230431.html 11:31:42 <planetmaker> well, that bug being there should not stop a solution via sub-cargo abuse ;-) 11:31:58 <Yexo> but it does 11:32:07 <planetmaker> at least in this case it's ok to upgrade all wagons to, say, 2nd gen 11:32:23 <Yexo> if you refit the complete train to another subcargo of one other wagon, all your wagons might be downgraded 11:33:17 <planetmaker> Well, I'd not make available concurrently more than one generation. So only an upgrade is possible - if different wagons are introduced at the same time, I guess 11:33:54 <Yexo> planetmaker: the bug with subcargoes is about the fact that in some cases a subcargo can be set that was not even available 11:34:07 <Yexo> so subcargo 0 could be set for your wagons when only 3 and 4 are available 11:34:26 <Yexo> as such downgrading the wagon from generation 4 (or 5) to generation 1 instead of upgrading it 11:34:28 <planetmaker> so, assume I have a valuables wagon and a bulk (coal) wagon. I refit the latter to 2nd gen 11:34:43 <planetmaker> the valuables has no generations. Anything bad? 11:34:55 <Yexo> no 11:35:41 <Yexo> using subcargoes for this feels wrong anyway 11:37:13 <Yexo> var 92 contains "date of last service in days since 1920" 11:38:46 <planetmaker> that's... sad that it's not 0-based days 11:39:03 <planetmaker> since 1920 is soooo TTD ;-) 11:39:14 <Terkhen> code another var :P 11:39:31 <planetmaker> I probably should do that, yes 11:39:44 <planetmaker> or this simply won't work :-P 11:39:54 <Terkhen> what else would change besides wagon speed? 11:40:10 <planetmaker> graphics slightly 11:40:23 <Yexo> planetmaker: as long as the second generation of wagons comes out after 1920 there shouldn't be a problem 11:40:48 <planetmaker> Yexo: and after 2090? 11:40:54 <planetmaker> what does it give then? 11:41:01 <Yexo> FFFF 11:41:07 <Yexo> before 1920 it gives 0 11:41:22 <planetmaker> always? Hm... might work. Then 2nd gen is 1921 or so 11:41:50 <Terkhen> my problem with wagon speed limits is that I don't see the point for them... engines have a speed limit already, and new engines appear over time 11:42:27 <planetmaker> @calc 65535 / 365.24 11:42:27 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 179.429963859 11:42:37 <Terkhen> designing engines too fast for the current wagons does not make much sense, and if they are slower then wagon speed limit serves no purpose 11:42:55 <planetmaker> Terkhen: I don't mind them, I don't use them. But some players like them, so I can give it to them 11:43:02 <planetmaker> It doesn't harm me 11:43:12 <Terkhen> ok :P 11:43:25 <planetmaker> and changing graphics and possibly capacity over time also makes sense :-) 11:43:40 <Terkhen> I was going to add that maybe they should have other differences, such as running costs (which I also don't like, but it makes sense for the feature) 11:44:06 <Terkhen> and maybe capacities, yes 11:44:19 <Terkhen> you could steal the 2cc wagons :P 11:45:02 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/lumber_12.png <-- like I have there 2 wagons which can only load 1 crate, 4 wagons which can load 4 and one which doesn't apply to crates 11:45:32 <planetmaker> so... the one-crate wagons could somehow be 'early' and the two-crate wagons could be generations 2 and three 11:47:30 <planetmaker> Though the early wagons might then indeed need some much more special graphics 11:47:45 <planetmaker> But that can be changed when I have it ;-) 11:47:46 <Eddi|nichZuHause> planetmaker: german cargo wagons of ~1910-1924: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCterwagen_der_Verbandsbauart 11:48:25 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 11:49:00 <planetmaker> I'd end up with a German Trainsset, Eddi ;-) 11:49:13 <planetmaker> the bad(?) thing is: if someone drew it, I'd even code it :-P 11:49:32 *** larso [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:49:32 *** larso [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [] 11:50:01 <planetmaker> otherwise we'd never get an up-to-date and extensible German trainset 11:51:31 <Eddi|nichZuHause> i have a few ideas myself 11:51:37 <planetmaker> :-) 11:51:43 <planetmaker> the long wagon thingy? 11:51:52 <Eddi|nichZuHause> yes, for example 11:52:09 <Eddi|nichZuHause> but i can't draw anything... i tried... 11:52:31 <Eddi|nichZuHause> but... i have actual work to do now... 11:55:03 <Eddi|nichZuHause> <@Terkhen> my problem with wagon speed limits is that I don't see the point for them... engines have a speed limit already, and new engines appear over time <-- main effect of wagon speed limits is differentiating passenger and freight traffic 11:55:29 <Terkhen> oh, that makes sense :P 11:55:49 <Terkhen> I was thinking just on generations of the same wagon with different speeds 11:57:24 <Terkhen> meh... I have just started checking the spain set thread from the beginning 11:57:36 <Terkhen> I have no clue of who took part in the project, I only know that they were a lot of people 11:58:00 <Terkhen> might be better to get new sprites than to relicense the old set :/ 11:59:08 <planetmaker> Terkhen: just ask each person who posted sprites whether you can (re)use them 11:59:16 <Yexo> if you find one or two people who contributed a lot of sprites, you could try to ask only them to relicense their sprites 11:59:16 <planetmaker> write a few forum mails ;-) 11:59:25 <Terkhen> they even mention some people that were not in the forums at all :P 11:59:27 <planetmaker> :-) 11:59:31 <JVassie> http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?ie=UTF8&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php%3Ftid%3D5079%26pid%3D74728&usg=ALkJrhgt5CYg9ewwpWkxNuW7u6lwU_xGUg#pid74728 11:59:32 <planetmaker> bad 11:59:33 <JVassie> haha 11:59:47 <JVassie> Eddi|nichZuHause: your translation comes out as Churchill's patch pack :D 11:59:53 <Terkhen> they talk about a tracking table, but it seems to have dissapeared 12:00:44 <planetmaker> hm 12:00:47 <Noldo> is the patch still alive and kicking? 12:01:43 <planetmaker> http://www.as-st.com/ttd/renfetech/ <-- Terkhen ? 12:01:55 <Eddi|nichZuHause> planetmaker: anyway, my most immediate plan was to pick a single train, my eye fell on the LBE double decker train, and make a test-grf for the long wagons project out of that 12:02:11 <planetmaker> how far did you get? 12:02:36 <Terkhen> planetmaker: nice! 12:02:37 <Eddi|nichZuHause> i watched a few blender tutorials ;) 12:02:48 <Terkhen> it only contains a few trains but it is a good start :P 12:03:12 <Eddi|nichZuHause> i tried pixel-drawing but did not get anywhere 12:04:19 <Eddi|nichZuHause> on the code-side it needs finishing of the "return special sprite if drawing in GUI" 12:04:30 <planetmaker> That's relatively easy, Eddi| 12:04:38 <planetmaker> cargo 0xFF in the graphics block 12:04:51 <planetmaker> just link to the graphics you want to show 12:04:52 <Eddi|nichZuHause> no, that is the build window 12:04:58 <Eddi|nichZuHause> i meant GUI as in vehicle details 12:05:11 <Eddi|nichZuHause> which is something different 12:05:22 <planetmaker> hm, ok. Why does that need a special one? 12:06:02 <Eddi|nichZuHause> because the GUI shouldn't change sprites when the wagon makes fancy var-45 stuff 12:06:18 <Eddi|nichZuHause> otherwise you get disconnected or otherwise weird drawings 12:06:21 <planetmaker> whatever var45 is :-) 12:06:35 <Eddi|nichZuHause> var45 = curvature info 12:06:51 <Eddi|nichZuHause> better to see: av8 planes on takeoff 12:06:57 <planetmaker> ah 12:08:00 <Eddi|nichZuHause> JVassie: what's so special about that particular thread? 12:08:28 <JVassie> <JVassie> Eddi|nichZuHause: your translation comes out as Churchill's patch pack :D 12:08:34 <JVassie> just found it amusing :p 12:09:26 <Eddi|nichZuHause> planetmaker: you can see for yourself, pick my longwagons test grf, build a train, and let it run around curves in a circle, then watch the vehicle details window or the train list window 12:09:39 <planetmaker> Eddi|nichZuHause: are there somewhere sprites which could be considered a start for a German trainset? 12:10:00 <planetmaker> where's that test grf? 12:14:25 <JVassie> planetmaker: not happy with DBSet? 12:14:53 <planetmaker> nope 12:14:55 <Eddi|nichZuHause> planetmaker: in the newgrf technical forum 12:15:15 <planetmaker> JVassie: it's unusable in multiplayer 12:15:22 <Eddi|nichZuHause> JVassie: the 5 year old outdated version or the 5 year unreleased version? 12:15:23 <JVassie> not true sir 12:15:24 <planetmaker> due to author-issues 12:15:31 <JVassie> wha? 12:15:46 <planetmaker> JVassie: only bananas-grfs are usable in multiplayer 12:15:47 <Eddi|nichZuHause> JVassie: ENotOnBananas 12:15:50 <JVassie> well Eddi, dotn think anyoen is happy with the unreleased 0.9 12:16:20 <JVassie> is that a rule or a physical restriction? 12:16:39 <planetmaker> it doesn't support parameter GUI. it has silly restrictions on engine pool and never-expire vehicles. And it's not open source 12:17:04 <planetmaker> JVassie: you cannot sensibly run a server with grfs not found on banans 12:17:05 <Ammler> well, it is more open as pikka grfs :-) 12:17:30 <JVassie> so more of a 'rule' then I guess 12:17:35 <Ammler> at least it has a license ;-) 12:17:36 <planetmaker> thus not on bananas is to me like doesn't exist 12:17:47 <JVassie> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=950597#p950597 12:17:48 <planetmaker> And not worth bothering with 12:17:58 <JVassie> me and Ameecher quite happily manage multiplayer games with it :p 12:18:24 <JVassie> and wve made our own extensions for it 12:18:31 <JVassie> DB Double Deck (which is on bananas) 12:18:37 <JVassie> and TRAXX (which isnt yet) 12:18:40 <planetmaker> if you only play with selected buddies: yes. But that hardly then counts as 'open server' 12:18:53 <planetmaker> as no one who doesn't know that forum thread will be able to join 12:19:01 <JVassie> <planetmaker> JVassie: it's unusable in open server multiplayer FYP :) 12:19:11 <Ammler> not sure, what is better, unlicensed grfs on bananas or licensed grfs not on bananas 12:19:22 <JVassie> the latter 12:19:28 <JVassie> hmm dunno actually 12:20:03 <planetmaker> JVassie: it IMHO generally not usable then for MP. Especially as there's no reason for authors to NOT upload released grfs to bananas 12:20:24 <planetmaker> Ammler: each grf on bananas has a license :-) 12:20:35 <JVassie> obviously i agree with you :) 12:20:36 <Ammler> well, dbset not on bananas is due to bananas restrictions not an issue of MB 12:20:42 <JVassie> is it? 12:20:48 <Ammler> MB would allow it 12:20:55 <Ammler> he just doesn't do it self 12:21:02 <JVassie> ive never uploaded anything to bananas 12:21:11 <JVassie> Ameecher does it for me :p 12:21:16 <planetmaker> well, so? 12:21:26 <JVassie> I presume there are conditions of uploading 12:21:31 <JVassie> like being the grf owner 12:21:34 <JVassie> and it havign a license? 12:21:34 <Ammler> yep, only author can 12:21:42 <Ammler> license is not required 12:21:44 <JVassie> k 12:21:54 <JVassie> reminds me though 12:22:02 <JVassie> need to get Ameecher to upload our latest addon :p 12:22:07 <JVassie> 3 new locos 12:22:14 <Noldo> so banana restrictions AND unwillingend of the author to do it 12:23:04 <JVassie> kind of ironic were talkign about DBSet, Ive just finished writign a timeline guide to it :p 12:23:59 <Ammler> planetmaker: maybe you can setup a team with the europe set guy :-) 12:24:07 <planetmaker> yes, I thought so 12:24:15 <JVassie> your planning your own german trains set? 12:24:33 <planetmaker> no 12:24:43 <Ammler> not yet :-P 12:24:45 <JVassie> *confused* 12:24:51 <planetmaker> Ammler says it ;-) 12:25:19 <planetmaker> obviously it might make sense to get Eddi onto the team then, too ;-) 12:25:40 <JVassie> whats the plan? 12:25:49 <JVassie> I wouldnt mind being involved :p 12:26:01 <Ammler> alpine set :-P 12:26:12 <planetmaker> honestly, JVassie ? 12:26:18 <JVassie> well, I started the Swiss Set 12:26:24 <planetmaker> the main thing which stops/ed me is a lack of sprites 12:27:05 <Ammler> isn't there also a partially öb set? 12:27:08 <JVassie> does the dbsetxl license stop you from editing it (even if you dont release it) 12:27:10 <JVassie> ? 12:27:17 <planetmaker> and I'd quite fancy to not do that set alone indeed. But mostly it needs a person who then really draws sprites for this set specifically as e.g. Voyager does for 2ccTS 12:27:28 <planetmaker> JVassie: I don't write grf for myself 12:27:35 <Ammler> JVassie: if you don't release, who should someone blame? 12:27:43 <JVassie> lol :D 12:27:54 <Ammler> how* 12:28:11 <JVassie> I presume your allowed to post pictures of your creation 12:28:19 <JVassie> so you can just tease people endlessly 12:28:27 <Ammler> just be careful with credtis :-P 12:28:35 <planetmaker> yeah. But I don't want to exercise the habits of SAC and mb neither 12:28:59 <JVassie> SAC did release the grfs though 12:29:02 <JVassie> (recently) 12:29:02 <planetmaker> besides I'd be too much an attention-whore to not release it :-P 12:29:09 <JVassie> :D 12:29:15 <JVassie> hmm 12:29:16 <JVassie> well 12:29:20 <JVassie> ill talk to Ameecher 12:29:23 <Yexo> JVassie: and how much content was in there relative to the amount of content was showed in all teasers / screenshots? 12:29:23 <JVassie> if we sort out sprites 12:29:33 <JVassie> will you code? 12:29:35 <JVassie> :p 12:29:42 <JVassie> Yexo, dotn know tbh 12:29:45 <JVassie> didnt download them 12:29:59 <planetmaker> I'd work on such set, yes 12:30:01 <Yexo> coding for a properly-licensed german trainset won't be a problem 12:30:10 * Yexo volunteers to help with code too if that's needed 12:30:11 <Ammler> planetmaker: seriously what about a alpine set with branches to germany? 12:30:15 <JVassie> Now, should I bump a topic which hasnt been replied in since March 2005? :p 12:30:19 <planetmaker> :-) 12:30:31 <planetmaker> JVassie: with a usable reply ;-) 12:30:49 <JVassie> well it's a downloadable .doc with a new guide 12:30:58 <JVassie> so somewhat usable i guess :p 12:30:59 <peter1138> .doc? how antiquated 12:31:01 <planetmaker> Ammler: So a central European TS? 12:31:12 <JVassie> well nto everyoen has .docx compatibility 12:31:14 <JVassie> hence my choice 12:31:17 <JVassie> *not 12:31:35 <peter1138> most of the time you should present it as a pdf 12:31:52 <JVassie> mmm true 12:31:53 <peter1138> not everyone has .doc compatibility 12:32:01 <planetmaker> Ammler: and then a switch "swiss/austrian/german/.."? 12:32:05 <peter1138> and even then, it doesn't always look the same 12:32:10 <JVassie> i suppose most peoples browsers these days can handle pdfs 12:32:16 <JVassie> peter1138: nothing fancy in it 12:32:19 <JVassie> just tables and text 12:33:05 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:6d94:8aca:5ec1:bec8] has joined #openttd 12:33:08 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:33:43 <JVassie> planetmaker: OTTD has no limit on vehicle IDs now right? 12:33:54 <planetmaker> no practical limit 12:34:01 <Yexo> there is a limit at around 64000 IDs 12:34:01 <JVassie> good reply :D 12:34:08 <Eddi|nichZuHause> 16bit 12:34:12 <JVassie> l'awesome 12:34:21 <planetmaker> What I do not want to do is the mistake of the 2ccTS: it has WAY too many vehicles 12:34:48 <JVassie> What d you think regarding the 'spread' in the dbsetxl? 12:34:49 <planetmaker> Thus if I start on such set, it'll need at least initially a good selection of engines over time, one pax, one fright or so 12:34:51 <Yexo> the problem of the 2ccTS was that is had no scope at all 12:35:11 <planetmaker> the db set is well balanced actually 12:35:27 <planetmaker> and also well drawn 12:35:35 <planetmaker> very well even 12:35:53 <peter1138> is it? 12:36:02 <Eddi|nichZuHause> it definitely is 12:36:02 <peter1138> i find it looks a bit pants compared to pikka's efforts 12:36:33 <peter1138> some of the wagons are pretty crude 12:36:41 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-010-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:36:44 <JVassie> peter1138: have you seen mb's unreleased gfx/ 12:36:48 <JVassie> *? 12:36:53 <peter1138> no 12:36:56 <Eddi|nichZuHause> well, pikka's gfx from 5 years ago ;) 12:36:59 <peter1138> that'll be unreleased... 12:37:05 <JVassie> and? :p 12:37:23 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:30 <peter1138> i've not seen it, so i can't comment 12:37:53 <Eddi|nichZuHause> there are screenshots around ;) 12:37:55 <JVassie> a lot of the pictures show huge improvements to the db sprites 12:38:02 <JVassie> german tt forums particularly 12:38:11 <peter1138> feel free to provide links 12:38:18 <peter1138> i don't frequent the german tt forums 12:38:20 <JVassie> http://www.tt-ms.de/forum 12:38:25 <JVassie> i dont speak german :p 12:38:28 <peter1138> i'm not looking at the whole forum 12:38:33 <JVassie> 2 secs 12:38:35 <planetmaker> :-D quite a bit generic link, eh? :-) 12:38:42 <Eddi|nichZuHause> almost all images are in the "MB" thread in tt-forums as well 12:38:56 <peter1138> anyway 12:39:04 <peter1138> i was commenting on the state of MB's *released* dbset 12:39:21 <Eddi|nichZuHause> well, it's 5 years old 12:39:26 <Eddi|nichZuHause> actually 6 by now 12:40:30 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 12:40:31 <JVassie> peter1138: http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/attachment.php?aid=3456 12:40:37 <JVassie> first pic i found in the thread 12:40:57 <peter1138> yes, that's good 12:41:00 <peter1138> but not released 12:41:10 <planetmaker> and it's in that state since about 2007 12:41:17 <peter1138> 2005 12:41:19 <JVassie> :p 12:41:20 <peter1138> oh 12:41:25 <peter1138> yeah, i see what you mean 12:41:38 <JVassie> http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/attachment.php?aid=3333 12:42:07 <JVassie> <planetmaker> the db set is well balanced actually 12:42:10 <JVassie> aye I agree 12:42:14 <JVassie> couple of missing things 12:42:23 <JVassie> which I believe he was planning on rectifying in 0.9 12:42:26 <planetmaker> it's technologically out-dated 12:42:29 <JVassie> if it were ever to be released 12:42:33 <JVassie> very true 12:42:51 <planetmaker> but I have no faith in him releasing anything and if so he won't make it available in a useful way to the community 12:42:56 <JVassie> to my knowledge, the reason 0.9 is sooo delayed 12:42:58 <planetmaker> Thus it'll be lost when he looses interest 12:43:01 <JVassie> is because hes working on newships 12:43:06 <JVassie> and his own m4nfo language 12:43:07 <planetmaker> hahahaha :-) 12:43:46 <planetmaker> honestly: I don't care of the reasons. 12:43:50 <planetmaker> None is a good one 12:44:32 <planetmaker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_early,_release_often 12:44:34 <JVassie> oh yeah, remember the db passenger set? 12:44:36 <JVassie> http://users.tt-forums.net/dbpass/index.html 12:44:52 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:45:11 <planetmaker> no, I don't 12:45:21 <JVassie> ah right 12:45:27 <planetmaker> ah, will be closed source, too 12:45:30 <JVassie> well 12:45:31 <planetmaker> thus also lost work 12:45:32 <JVassie> it was 06 12:45:53 <JVassie> Im on (well was) on the team 12:46:29 <planetmaker> he, see that ;-) 12:46:33 <planetmaker> You didn't get far, it seems 12:47:04 <JVassie> no we didnt 12:47:09 <JVassie> mainly due to Saskia leaving 12:47:14 <JVassie> and *shudder* Purnos involvement 12:47:26 <JVassie> there was a time when I looked up to Purno *grimface* 12:47:37 <planetmaker> that time was there, yes 12:47:45 <planetmaker> times change 12:48:01 <planetmaker> he's an excellent artist 12:48:13 <JVassie> eh? 12:48:13 <planetmaker> and was quite quick in that, too 12:48:30 <JVassie> hes not that great, from what I recall of his work 12:48:42 <JVassie> not looked too closely for a while though 12:48:43 <planetmaker> well. ok :-) 12:48:50 <JVassie> another project i was on that didnt get off the ground 12:48:51 <JVassie> http://users.tt-forums.net/eurocargo/ 12:48:57 <planetmaker> One can do better. But it's definitely not bad 12:49:18 <planetmaker> you know a lot of dead projects, it seems ;-) 12:49:24 <JVassie> :p 12:50:09 <JVassie> hmm 12:50:18 <JVassie> ill see if i have ftp details for them both 12:51:49 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:52:32 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 12:52:34 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-088-076-111-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:53:46 <planetmaker> gimme sprites and at best also a draft plan on vehicles ;-) 12:54:51 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-205-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:55:34 <JVassie> Gotta wait for Ameecher to get back from work, no way I can manage graphics by myself 12:55:39 <JVassie> he is better at it anyway :p 12:56:49 <JVassie> hmm 12:56:59 <JVassie> just realised i have had the british stations grf since oct 08 12:57:00 <JVassie> >.> 12:59:23 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFCEE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:00:15 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: goodbye] 13:00:25 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-92-27-53-189.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 13:00:30 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:01:23 <JVassie> topic bump, 6 years and nearly 3 months 13:01:25 <JVassie> a new record :D 13:01:49 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFCEE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:13:07 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets <-- JVassie 13:13:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-92-27-53-189.static.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:13:39 <planetmaker> please register ;-) 13:15:06 <JVassie> does this login cover bananas too? 13:15:15 <Yexo> no 13:15:15 * dihedral thought of timestamp 13:15:29 <Yexo> but it does cover all other projects on the openttdcoop devzone 13:15:38 <JVassie> hairy nuff 13:15:48 <dihedral> openttd / tt-forums wide sso 13:15:49 <JVassie> will probably put MSS up there some day soon (tm) 13:15:49 <dihedral> :-) 13:16:05 <Yexo> JVassie: yes, I planned on doing that this weekend :) 13:16:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-92-27-53-189.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 13:16:13 <JVassie> wooo \o/ 13:16:35 <JVassie> hopefully ill be able to copy pasta some of the nfo 13:16:41 <JVassie> and get new additions to work 13:18:09 <JVassie> http://www.flickr.com/photos/panwitz/3299744878/lightbox/ 13:18:24 <JVassie> shopfronts :p 13:18:38 <Yexo> yes, that station is in one of mb's screenshots 13:18:51 <JVassie> was mb's one based on alexanderplatz? 13:18:58 <planetmaker> probably. 13:19:01 <planetmaker> he lives close by 13:19:01 <Yexo> don't know, but it looks exactly like it 13:19:25 <JVassie> the majority of the 'central mainline' through Berlin is on 'stilts' 13:19:31 <planetmaker> yup 13:19:40 <planetmaker> thus it *might* be another such station there, too ;-) 13:19:43 <JVassie> from westkreuz to ostkreuz 13:20:16 <Yexo> but how many of those are glass like alexanderplatz? 13:21:03 <JVassie> fair few 13:21:09 <JVassie> zoo' is 13:21:18 <Eddi|nichZuHause> <JVassie> was mb's one based on alexanderplatz? <-- no, friedrichstraÃe 13:21:18 <JVassie> freidrichstrasse is 13:21:21 <JVassie> :D 13:21:23 <JVassie> snap! 13:21:55 <JVassie> cept i couldnt do the à easily >.> 13:22:02 <planetmaker> also JVassie better remove your reply to the spam posting thread quickly before a global mod finds it ;-) 13:22:14 <JVassie> eh? 13:22:29 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55322 13:22:50 <JVassie> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=948759#p948759 13:23:10 <JVassie> whats wrong with it? 13:23:16 <JVassie> oh fag 13:23:30 <JVassie> didnt look at the guys sig >.< 13:23:31 <planetmaker> :-) 13:23:36 <JVassie> thx for the heads up 13:23:38 <Yexo> Hyronymus can be quite brutal :p 13:23:41 <JVassie> meh 13:23:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-92-27-53-189.static.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:23:48 <JVassie> Hyronymous is putty in my hands :D 13:24:12 <Eddi|nichZuHause> <JVassie> cept i couldnt do the à easily >.> <- compose+ss, or altgr+s, if you have a useful keymap ;) 13:24:30 <JVassie> compose? 13:24:31 <JVassie> :s 13:24:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-92-27-53-189.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 13:26:04 * Rubidium almost was at that station yesterday ;) 13:26:15 <JVassie> which? 13:26:20 <JVassie> freirchstrasse? 13:26:22 <planetmaker> JVassie: could you register at the DevZone? 13:26:23 <JVassie> *freidrich 13:26:27 <JVassie> planetmaker: sorry 13:26:28 <planetmaker> *Friedrich 13:26:33 <JVassie> pssht 13:26:37 <JVassie> was installing chrome 13:26:41 <JVassie> opera is annoying me 13:26:47 <JVassie> and hotmail fails on firefox 13:26:58 <planetmaker> use a real mail client ;-) 13:27:06 <JVassie> registered 13:27:11 <JVassie> ive had hotmail for too many years :p 13:27:17 <dihedral> planetmaker, you consider 'hotmail' a mail client? :-P 13:27:19 <Rubidium> the one just west of Hackescher Markt ;) 13:27:36 <JVassie> been too many years since i was in berlin :( 13:27:51 <JVassie> i remember some weird things though 13:28:00 <JVassie> like kochstrasse for checkpoint charlie 13:28:01 <planetmaker> dihedral: surely not. But "hotmail fails on FF" indicates that no such thing is used, dihedral 13:28:03 <JVassie> on the U6 iirc 13:28:11 <planetmaker> ho, salut Rubidium :-) 13:28:19 <planetmaker> Did you wave when you speeded past my place? 13:28:20 <JVassie> planetmaker: registered 13:28:26 <planetmaker> I didn't see anything ;-) 13:28:35 <planetmaker> JVassie: yes, made you also project manager 13:28:44 <JVassie> swish 13:28:45 <JVassie> :) 13:29:58 <Yexo> JVassie: i you join #openttdcoop.devzone you'll also see all commits announced on irc 13:30:27 <JVassie> ta :) 13:30:54 <planetmaker> :-) 13:31:31 <JVassie> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/a2177b9eb9cd/entry/lang/english.lng 13:31:36 <JVassie> shocked im not included :p 13:31:51 <planetmaker> :-D That's my standard dummy project 13:32:04 <JVassie> heheh 13:32:20 <planetmaker> Don't worry about contributions not being done. But the makefile framework which I copied... well... I'm the author there ;-) 13:32:33 <JVassie> I jest :) 13:32:39 <planetmaker> I know ;-) 13:35:48 <planetmaker> I actually wouldn't mind if it started with the really early stuff 13:35:51 <JVassie> So how is the project managed on a feature level? 13:35:57 <JVassie> ie whats getting included etc? 13:36:03 <JVassie> a tracking table? 13:36:07 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 13:37:47 <JVassie> we also need to decide on countries to include, be it just DE, CH and A? or CZ too? PL also? 13:38:23 <Eddi|nichZuHause> depends on what your definition of "Germany" might be :p 13:38:27 <planetmaker> Personally I'd focus on Germany. But there's IMHO no clear black and white 13:38:40 <planetmaker> so that's why I also chose "central European" ;-) 13:38:47 <JVassie> gotcha 13:38:58 <planetmaker> Eddi|nichZuHause: interested to join the project, too? 13:39:10 <JVassie> Eddi has al ot of useful knowledge on german railways :p 13:39:13 <JVassie> *a lot 13:39:19 <Eddi|nichZuHause> ask me later 13:39:25 <JVassie> maybe we could invite mb too? 13:39:40 <planetmaker> not a good idea, JVassie :-) He hates me 13:39:52 <JVassie> xD 13:39:53 <Eddi|nichZuHause> don't distract him 13:40:03 <JVassie> he's working on newships am i right Eddi? 13:40:22 <orudge> He'll contribute a load of graphics, and then two years later decide that he doesn't like the way you've upgraded the project and insist they all be removed ;) 13:40:22 <Eddi|nichZuHause> he already released that one, didn't he? 13:40:31 <planetmaker> :-D 13:40:35 <Eddi|nichZuHause> he's working on lots of things 13:40:36 <JVassie> well theres a 0.48 prelease on the german forums 13:40:41 <JVassie> which goes alongside marico 13:40:51 <planetmaker> hu, of what? 13:40:51 <Eddi|nichZuHause> ships, trains, stations, houses, industries, alpine, ... 13:40:54 <JVassie> :p 13:41:16 <Eddi|nichZuHause> JVassie: iirc there was a real release as well 13:41:26 <JVassie> well yeah but that was ancient :p 13:41:36 <Eddi|nichZuHause> i meant of 0.48 13:41:44 <JVassie> oh? 13:41:45 <JVassie> really? 13:41:47 <JVassie> when? :o 13:41:52 <JVassie> i only foudn the prelease 13:41:54 <JVassie> *found 13:42:13 <planetmaker> JVassie: you immediately see the adv. of bananas there, right? ;-) 13:42:20 <JVassie> true :p 13:42:24 <JVassie> i dotn disagree with you planetmaker ;) 13:42:26 <JVassie> *dont 13:42:54 <Yexo> orudge: too bad for him all projects at the devzone have a clear license which doesn't allow that ;) 13:42:56 <planetmaker> hm... I wonder whether the devzone CF could interface banannas directly ;-) 13:43:14 <Yexo> planetmaker: even if it could, should it really do that? 13:43:33 <planetmaker> I'm not sure. Might be a bad idea 13:43:48 <planetmaker> but it would make releases even easier ;-) 13:44:07 <planetmaker> of course it would need enabling in a similar way enabling the CF itself is needed 13:44:42 <JVassie> i just at the time thought you were implyign there was some physical impossibility of using dbset in multiplayer, i was getting ready to jump in and prove you wrong :D 13:45:30 <planetmaker> :-) I know it works there. Played it myself not only once 13:45:34 <JVassie> :) 13:45:41 <JVassie> <Eddi|nichZuHause> i meant of 0.48 13:45:45 <JVassie> can you remember where? 13:45:51 <Rubidium> planetmaker: uhmm... there was too much water (in liquid or solid form) between me and the ground to even guess when I would be near you :( 13:46:03 <planetmaker> he 13:46:15 <planetmaker> oh, you flew? 13:46:23 <planetmaker> Not railways as "usual"? 13:46:32 <Rubidium> yeah... 13:46:34 <JVassie> planetmaker: where do you live? 13:46:39 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC57DC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 13:46:46 <Rubidium> they wanted us to be there at 11:00, and that fails with the train 13:46:47 <planetmaker> between berlin and hanovre 13:47:02 <planetmaker> he, right 13:47:12 <JVassie> fair enough 13:48:05 *** fjb is now known as Guest4971 13:48:06 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFEA60.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:48:18 * orudge puts planetmaker on a plane between WRY and PPW 13:48:57 <planetmaker> orudge: our travel forms used to have a checkbox for the means of travel for [x] self-piloted plane ;-) 13:49:10 <orudge> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXYrlRsNwKA :D 13:49:22 <planetmaker> haha :-) 13:49:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-92-27-53-189.static.as13285.net] has left #openttd [] 13:49:58 <orudge> it'll take longer to get from the gate to the runway at most large airports than it would to get from Westray to Papa Westray 13:50:07 <planetmaker> quite 13:50:20 <orudge> indeed, some runways are actually longer than that distance :P 13:50:30 <orudge> not as wet, though. 13:50:40 <Rubidium> orudge: well... SXF -> AMS has something similar... :( 13:50:45 <planetmaker> :-D 13:50:56 <Rubidium> flight time was less than taxi time 13:50:57 <orudge> Rubidium: hmm, 371 miles though, that's not too bad 13:51:07 <orudge> I frequently flew MAN - LHR, which is 151 miles 13:51:12 <planetmaker> luckily taxing on our local airport at least for such small planes doesn't take that long either 13:51:14 <JVassie> "The "licence" for these sets allows using, copying and distribution. It does not allow modifying of any part of the .grfs nor including it into other software, e.g. other .grfs. " --- from one of MBs first ever posts 13:51:14 <orudge> the pilot would announce that we were now at cruising altitude 13:51:23 <planetmaker> the large planes... migth. But they don't start on grass. 13:51:24 <orudge> then about 3 minutes later, he'd announce that they were beginning their descent 13:51:55 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 13:51:57 <orudge> hmm, and my first flight on Tuesday, Manchester to Dublin, is only 165 miles 13:52:02 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 13:52:05 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 13:52:27 <Rubidium> orudge: normally 65 min flight time, now 40 minutes (they said they arrived 25 minutes early), yet gate -> gate took ~100 minutes 13:52:37 <orudge> mmh 13:53:09 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC57DC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:53:33 <JVassie> however, a reply by ChrisCF seems to make the point that modification is allowed 13:53:40 <JVassie> and denying it is unlawful 13:54:02 <orudge> ChrisCF? I presume this is a post from years ago 13:54:39 <JVassie> many 13:54:45 <JVassie> Apr 2005 13:54:54 <orudge> that's 6 years ago now :( 13:54:59 <Yexo> JVassie: that doesn't actually matter. Nobody can stop you modifying it for own use 13:55:01 *** Guest4971 [~frank@p5DDFCEE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:55:06 <orudge> 6 years since I started university, nearly 13:55:07 <orudge> madness 13:55:15 <Yexo> and distributing a modified version _can_ be restricted by mb 13:55:16 <JVassie> idneed Yexo 13:55:18 <JVassie> *indeed 13:56:42 <JVassie> quite funny reading mb's posts 13:56:48 <JVassie> he obviously used a translator back then 13:56:49 <orudge> JVassie: link to this topic? 13:56:55 <JVassie> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=14889&start=40 13:58:32 <peter1138> doesn't look like it to me 13:58:37 <orudge> patchman needs to post 3 more posts 13:58:40 <orudge> then he'll have 5555 posts! 13:58:44 <peter1138> i dunno why he always uses that weird quote character though :S 13:59:07 <JVassie> indeed 13:59:33 <JVassie> orudge: your search fu might be better than mine 13:59:44 <JVassie> im tryign to fidn the original thread it got pslit from 13:59:45 <JVassie> 8split 13:59:46 <JVassie> :p 13:59:56 <JVassie> *find 13:59:59 <JVassie> silly spelling 14:00:24 <JVassie> nvm 14:00:24 <JVassie> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=7715 14:00:25 <JVassie> >.> 14:00:46 <JVassie> planetmaker: tracking table \o/ 14:01:03 <orudge> the forum search isn't always great, but there's always: 14:01:04 <orudge> http://www.tt-forums.net/google.php?cx=partner-pub-4357758776393046%3Aaetoj1f5v86&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&q=%22db+passenger+set%22&sa=Search#1321 14:01:29 <JVassie> google found it for me :p 14:01:35 <JVassie> enough bots indexing the forum these days 14:02:26 *** k^^ [~k^^@users192.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:02:27 <JVassie> "and....... jesus purno stop trying to make graphics for everything. 14:02:27 <JVassie> This way there will never be a set that's going to be finished." 14:02:37 <JVassie> nice quote there from gonewacko 14:02:38 <JVassie> :d 14:03:19 <Eddi|nichZuHause> <JVassie> "The "licence" for these sets allows using, copying and distribution. It does not allow modifying of any part of the .grfs nor including it into other software, e.g. other .grfs. " --- from one of MBs first ever posts <-- but history says that if you ask for a few particular sprites to reuse, he does allow this 14:03:33 <JVassie> Indeed 14:03:36 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0f84fe.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 14:03:57 <JVassie> Dont think he hates me 14:03:57 <Eddi|nichZuHause> e.g. RichK once asked him for the snow/grass transition sprites from alpine, to use in his snow-in-temperate patch 14:04:02 <JVassie> so could always ask :p 14:04:11 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 14:04:23 <Eddi|nichZuHause> MB doesn't "hate" people. he "disagrees" with them occasionally ;) 14:05:11 <Eddi|nichZuHause> hm... must... do... actual... work... damnit... 14:05:25 <JVassie> <planetmaker> not a good idea, JVassie :-) He hates me 14:05:41 <Eddi|nichZuHause> i'm totally not worth my hourly rate today :p 14:05:50 <JVassie> hourly rate of? 14:06:12 <Ammler> [15:16] <dihedral> openttd / tt-forums wide sso <-- nobody likes openid :-) 14:06:28 <planetmaker> ok... maybe wrong word. But chance are 9:1 that we would disagree ;-) 14:06:47 <JVassie> haha 14:06:47 <Eddi|nichZuHause> that's easy :p 14:06:50 <Amis> So, the word generator managed to create a city without houses. Is there any way to... "save" this city? 14:07:00 <Amis> It has one tile of road! 14:07:12 <JVassie> orudge: is there a specific license regardign stuff uploaded on tt-forums? 14:07:15 <JVassie> *regarding 14:07:18 <Eddi|nichZuHause> Amis: town properties => fund new buildings 14:07:22 <orudge> JVassie: nope. 14:07:27 <Eddi|nichZuHause> Amis: or simply service some nearby industries 14:07:36 <JVassie> bah :( 14:07:37 <Amis> Oh I see 14:07:44 <orudge> JVassie: I retain ownership of "the forums" as a whole, but individual contributions are the property of their creator, basically 14:07:45 <JVassie> Will have to hope Saskia replies to a PM 14:07:51 <Amis> I though no house means no "cargo area" 14:07:53 <Eddi|nichZuHause> Amis: as long as it has that central road tile, it can grow 14:08:01 <orudge> Saskia hasn't visited since May 2005 14:08:07 <orudge> you might be lucky... 14:08:19 <Alberth> Amis service *industry* :) 14:08:22 <Eddi|nichZuHause> Amis: it only counts that the station gets the town as part of its name 14:08:37 <JVassie> orudge: that didnt help :D 14:08:51 <JVassie> copyright claims can only be filed by the owner right? 14:09:17 <orudge> or, I imagine, somebody working on their behalf 14:09:19 <orudge> (IANAL etC) 14:09:20 <orudge> *etc 14:10:11 <JVassie> or hope that one of her posts reveals she says all her work is copyright free 14:10:12 <JVassie> :/ 14:11:04 <Eddi|nichZuHause> hm... the windows tab-completition is annoying 14:11:26 <JVassie> oh ho 14:11:28 <JVassie> orudge: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=159287#p159287 14:11:31 <JVassie> does that count? :p 14:11:37 <Terkhen> thank to the crazy nicknames of spain trains I'm being able to find the authors of many engines :P 14:11:50 <orudge> JVassie: you'd have to ask Saskia :p 14:11:53 <JVassie> pfft 14:11:54 <JVassie> >.< 14:12:14 <orudge> or just go ahead and be prepared to remove the graphics at a later date if challenged... 14:12:18 <orudge> but I wouldn't necessarily recommend that 14:12:40 <Eddi|nichZuHause> it tab-completes ".file.xy.swp" before "file.xy" 14:12:47 <JVassie> Ill quot you on that :D 14:12:49 <JVassie> *quote 14:12:52 <JVassie> the first bit anyway 14:12:53 <JVassie> :p 14:13:44 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6FFAC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:13:51 <Ammler> JVassie: at least we got Purno to define his work as gpl, pikka and george left :-) 14:13:56 <Yexo> JVassie: I think that would be enough for saskia's sprites, but not for those he based on mb's ones 14:14:09 <JVassie> true Ammler :p 14:14:26 <JVassie> AFAIK the BR111 and sbahn trailers I was looking at are Saskia's work 14:14:34 <JVassie> they were drawn before MBs I believe 14:15:05 <Yexo> to be sure we're in a the clear someone redrawing would be better though 14:15:40 <JVassie> obviously :) 14:15:53 <JVassie> they are nice sprites though which is a shame 14:15:59 <JVassie> ill shoot saskia a pm nonetheless 14:16:08 <JVassie> maybe she still gets emails when she gets a PM 14:16:36 <Ammler> she? there is no "she" in the tt-world :-) 14:17:18 <JVassie> xD 14:17:22 <JVassie> Saskia was I believe 14:17:24 <orudge> there have been at least half a dozen "shes" on the forum :p 14:17:36 <Ammler> orudge: who knows ;-) 14:17:38 <orudge> that we know about# 14:17:46 <orudge> of course, that's compared with, I dunno, 30,000 "hes" and spambots :p 14:18:41 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:19:04 <JVassie> Yexo: he graphics were posted May 11 2004 14:19:06 <JVassie> *her 14:19:23 <JVassie> DBSetXL was 05.05.05 14:19:31 <JVassie> nearly a year later 14:19:36 <Yexo> JVassie: that doesn't prove anything 14:19:42 <Ammler> copyrights don't expire 14:19:43 <Terkhen> meh, some of the graphics of the spain set were taken from other sets... "with permission", but without license 14:19:44 <Yexo> there could have been teasers for DBSetXL already containing the sprites 14:20:00 <JVassie> hmm 14:20:02 <JVassie> perhaps 14:23:24 <planetmaker> but that IMHO would need proving otherwise 14:25:41 <Eddi|nichZuHause> <Ammler> copyrights don't expire <--- 70 years after death of author 14:26:32 <orudge> of course, by the time $RANDOM popular song or album from 70 years previously is about to expire, they'll lobby the government and have it extended to 100 years, or something stupid D: 14:27:41 <Eddi|nichZuHause> orudge: those are mainly the recording rights, which are different from "author"-copyrights 14:28:04 <orudge> well, similar things happened with Mickey Mouse in the USA 14:28:07 <orudge> but yes, perhaps 14:28:15 <Eddi|nichZuHause> iirc that is currently 50 years, and the lobbying for 90+ years is already long happening 14:28:26 <Eddi|nichZuHause> 50 years after publishing 14:28:37 <Eddi|nichZuHause> or 50 years after recording, if unpublished 14:29:57 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:30:09 <planetmaker> both of which is stupidly long 14:32:09 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 14:33:43 <Eddi|nichZuHause> yes, but this is completely irrelevant here, because there are no "performing artists" in the grf-world 14:34:27 <Eddi|nichZuHause> this applies to songs, movies, recordings of theater or other performances 14:35:04 <planetmaker> Eddi|nichZuHause: what about people supplying sound effects or music? 14:35:10 <Eddi|nichZuHause> (and are independent from rights of the text/music authors) 14:35:28 <Eddi|nichZuHause> § 73 AusÃŒbender KÃŒnstler 14:35:29 <Eddi|nichZuHause> AusÃŒbender KÃŒnstler im Sinne dieses Gesetzes ist, wer ein Werk oder eine Ausdrucksform der Volkskunst auffÃŒhrt, singt, spielt oder auf eine andere Weise darbietet oder an einer solchen Darbietung kÃŒnstlerisch mitwirkt. 14:37:41 <Eddi|nichZuHause> i presume "kÃŒnstlerisch mitwirken" includes producing sound effects. but not the electrician setting up the cables for the lights. 14:38:12 <Eddi|nichZuHause> (but it does include the person operating the lights) 14:42:31 <Eddi|nichZuHause> the relevant parts for the time frame are: §82 (performing artist), §85 (record producer), §87 (broadcaster) 14:42:43 <Eddi|nichZuHause> (all UrhG) 14:49:26 <Eddi|nichZuHause> basically everybody except the MAFIAA agree that the protection periods are too long 14:49:26 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:53:01 <JVassie> Yexo: I've sent Saskia a PM 14:53:06 <JVassie> lets just hope we get a reply :p 14:53:11 <JVassie> if not we can draw out own 14:53:53 <planetmaker> there should be not much waiting for that :-) 14:56:05 *** maahes [~maahes@c-71-204-132-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 14:58:23 *** maahes [~maahes@c-71-204-132-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:00:36 <JVassie> how do you mean planetmaker ? 15:00:38 <JVassie> :s 15:01:17 <planetmaker> :-) I just meant it doesn't hurt to get drawing nevertheless ;-) 15:01:28 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:01:30 <planetmaker> Even with those sprites, there's enough to draw 15:01:48 <planetmaker> or... first somewhat deciding on a list of engines we 'need' 15:02:20 <JVassie> Indeed 15:02:29 <JVassie> the latter is something I have desire to work on 15:02:36 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:02:37 <JVassie> how is is=t best to format such a list? 15:02:41 <JVassie> *it 15:03:25 <planetmaker> tab separated list ;-) 15:03:39 <JVassie> *blink* 15:03:49 <JVassie> why? :p 15:04:27 <planetmaker> or better comma separated ;-) 15:04:36 <planetmaker> well... what do you use? 15:04:44 <JVassie> I was thinking an excel spreadsheet 15:04:45 <planetmaker> why would it need something else than a plain text list? 15:05:04 <planetmaker> what would be the advantage? 15:05:15 <Eddi|nichZuHause> there should be a "short list" and a "long list" 15:05:47 <JVassie> well planetmaker i was thinkign we could use it to collect stats too 15:05:50 <JVassie> *thinking 15:06:01 <Eddi|nichZuHause> e.g. when playing with daylength, there might be more opportunity to use exotic/specialized engines 15:06:09 <JVassie> EXACTLY 15:06:11 <JVassie> :D 15:06:20 <JVassie> anyone check out my timeline guide I posted today? 15:06:32 <JVassie> its damn hard to do it all without build whilst paused 15:07:06 <planetmaker> Eddi|nichZuHause: definitely yes. 15:07:24 <planetmaker> but I'd not start with a long list, but rather a short list ;-) 15:07:34 <planetmaker> But that has nothing to do with the file format 15:07:54 <JVassie> planetmaker: are you thinking just a list of 'items'? 15:08:05 <JVassie> rather than any other information on each item? 15:08:06 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/288/ 15:08:17 <planetmaker> ^ I'm thinking about something like that 15:08:31 <planetmaker> much easier to handle and edit than a bulky spread sheet programme 15:08:35 <JVassie> true 15:08:47 <JVassie> on the other hand you lose out lots of useful abilities 15:08:51 <JVassie> lookup tables 15:08:55 <JVassie> calculatign formulae 15:08:58 <JVassie> *calculating 15:08:59 <planetmaker> especially as we do not need *any* of its functionality. 15:09:01 <JVassie> sorting 15:09:03 <planetmaker> Where do you need that? 15:09:17 <planetmaker> and... sorting? that's something my editor can do, too 15:09:44 <Eddi|nichZuHause> basic design rule for the "short list": you have 4 categories: "local passenger", "express passenger", "heavy cargo", "short range/light cargo" 15:09:47 <planetmaker> and if you use , instead of tab you can always import it in excel or whatever 15:09:52 * planetmaker doesn't posess excel 15:09:56 <Eddi|nichZuHause> every category should have a new engine about every 10 years 15:10:02 <JVassie> well it could be made on googledocs 15:10:17 <planetmaker> That might be a good idea. That's accessible easily online, too 15:10:24 <JVassie> :) 15:10:25 <planetmaker> then go for that 15:10:48 <JVassie> Im going to PM you a file on the forums 15:10:50 <JVassie> ah crap 15:10:55 <JVassie> that'd be pointless >.< 15:10:58 <JVassie> * planetmaker doesn't posess excel 15:11:02 <Rubidium> accessible for those with a google account you mean... 15:11:12 <Yexo> but readable by everyone 15:11:14 <planetmaker> JVassie: use google docs 15:11:16 <JVassie> Rubidium: you can set it so that anyone with the URL can look at it 15:11:33 <JVassie> planetmaker: indeed 15:11:40 <planetmaker> and not private communications... link in an issue in the project 15:11:41 <Rubidium> Yexo: I've often been redirected to some google something document and I never remember being able to just read it without having to login 15:11:55 <JVassie> thats dependant on the document Rubidium 15:12:02 <JVassie> not googledocs itself 15:12:08 <Yexo> some documents require authentication, a lot of them do not 15:12:14 <planetmaker> ^ 15:12:18 <JVassie> planetmaker: But I was planning on showing you the FRSet .xls spreadsheet 15:12:19 <planetmaker> depends on settings 15:12:32 <JVassie> and why a spreadsheet is handy :p 15:12:59 <planetmaker> I know how they can be used ;-) And yes, I can read them. 15:13:11 * Rubidium wonders whether he's allowed to show some spreadsheet "work" from work to show you how it ain't that handy ;) 15:13:20 <JVassie> lol 15:13:23 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 15:13:26 <JVassie> your an accountant at a guess? 15:13:49 <Alberth> more likely an engineer with too many numbers :p 15:13:52 <planetmaker> neither of us 15:13:52 <Rubidium> no, I don't count beans 15:14:00 <JVassie> xD 15:14:21 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 15:14:26 <JVassie> want me to start the spreadsheet? 15:14:41 <planetmaker> yes, sure 15:14:44 <JVassie> righteo 15:15:01 <planetmaker> a set only works, if people *just do it* 15:15:13 <Eddi|nichZuHause> i've seen some evil spreadsheets ;) 15:15:23 * Rubidium develops software for/related to measurement systems used to means pieces of metal; primarily those commonly found just around trains ;) 15:15:39 <Rubidium> s/means/measure/ 15:16:27 <JVassie> You have a googlemail account planetmaker & Yexo ? 15:16:43 <planetmaker> I've a google account, but no mail 15:16:50 <JVassie> ./query me 15:16:55 <planetmaker> ? 15:17:18 <Eddi|nichZuHause> google is evil 15:28:11 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-010-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:34:13 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6FFAC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:34:14 <__ln__> google isn't necessarily evil but it has a great potential for being evil, and that's scary 15:36:43 <JVassie> planetmaker: what was your definition of 'last' in the tab seperated list you made? 15:36:44 <planetmaker> JVassie: I'd not centre to table on the names and IDs (that's not so important) but on the (important) stats like introduction year, expiry year, power, speed and usage. 15:36:59 <planetmaker> that's the year the last engine was de-comissioned 15:37:15 <planetmaker> we don't need the exact stats there, at least not now. 15:37:27 <JVassie> we can hide columns :) 15:37:31 <JVassie> i hope 15:37:33 <planetmaker> nor do we need for balance the names 15:37:47 <planetmaker> yes, we can. But I'd still re-arrange. Names are for planning not important 15:38:17 <JVassie> its just atm the colums are grouped 15:38:21 <JVassie> *columns 15:38:31 <planetmaker> What Eddi|nichZuHause said, to get a list of years with stats, so that we get an overview of what is when... that's needed. 15:38:44 <planetmaker> Possibly of more engines than we actually use.. .because then we can choose 15:39:05 <planetmaker> oh, JVassie sorry: 'last' is the last year it was built 15:39:13 <planetmaker> de-comissioned is the out-of-service year 15:39:21 <planetmaker> the last year it was built 15:39:34 <JVassie> *confused* 15:39:48 <JVassie> are we not referencing the model life and engine life properties for ease? 15:39:57 <planetmaker> intro: first year engine built. Last: last year engine built. de-comissioned: last year in service 15:40:03 <planetmaker> not for now 15:40:04 <JVassie> gotcha 15:40:14 <Terkhen> probably everything that you could do with an excel file can be done with templates anyways :P 15:40:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-92-27-53-189.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 15:40:22 <planetmaker> hehe 15:40:28 <andythenorth> opening bridges would be quite cool 15:40:32 * andythenorth was in suggestions 15:40:52 <planetmaker> Terkhen: yes... that'd be another advantage of a plain text csv tracking table. One could just script-parse that into stats ;-) 15:41:08 <andythenorth> xml :P 15:41:16 <Terkhen> indeed, stuff could be automatically generated 15:41:31 <JVassie> planetmaker: you can download it as a csv any tiem you want 15:41:31 <Terkhen> and you don't need the additional step of copying things from the sheet to the code 15:41:33 <planetmaker> my abandoned comic houses did that 15:41:34 <JVassie> stop moaning :D 15:41:56 <planetmaker> :-D 15:42:09 <JVassie> file, download as, csv 15:42:10 <JVassie> :) 15:42:29 <Eddi|nichZuHause> <andythenorth> opening bridges would be quite cool <-- might be possible with "traffic objects" 15:42:42 <andythenorth> would need to be signalled I guess 15:42:52 <andythenorth> it's pointless because ships don't pay attention to such stuff 15:43:02 <andythenorth> but the eye candy aspect would be good 15:43:12 <JVassie> also planetmaker, your de-commisioned is same as early retirement property, righT? 15:43:26 <Eddi|nichZuHause> well, as soon as the ship would enter the state machine of the traffic-object, it could be forced to stop 15:43:58 <planetmaker> JVassie: I'd not bet on that. And I'm actually perfectly willing to make some game play adjustments on the availability years 15:44:10 <JVassie> DBSet does for balancing afaik 15:44:12 <JVassie> and no worries 15:44:25 <planetmaker> better good game play and not 100% correct date than 100% correct date and... bad gameplay 15:44:43 <planetmaker> those years are just for seeing what is there. It then will need manual translation into stats 15:44:50 <andythenorth> Eddi|nichZuHause: that would be quite awesome :) 15:44:53 <planetmaker> same with the length which did not properly copy 15:45:00 <Eddi|nichZuHause> JVassie: that's an implementation detail, worry about that later 15:45:15 <JVassie> yup Eddi :) 15:45:24 <JVassie> is anonymous user you btw? 15:46:02 <planetmaker> I'd first decide on the engines based on the real stats. And then I'd translate that to ingame properties 15:46:13 <planetmaker> as a 2nd step when engines are decided upon 15:47:27 <Eddi|nichZuHause> i'm not any anonymous user 15:47:48 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6FFAC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:48:03 <JVassie> Ah, thought you were looking at the googledoc too 15:48:45 <JVassie> right 15:48:53 <JVassie> all importnat properties are visible without scrolling 15:48:57 <JVassie> *important 15:49:12 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:49:46 <planetmaker> uhm... 15:50:37 <JVassie> :p 15:51:46 <planetmaker> I added the sections on long-distance and commuter trains as separate actually on purpose ;-) 15:52:29 <planetmaker> but maybe with a usage column it's better. dunno 15:52:45 <JVassie> columns are better I think 15:53:00 <JVassie> then we can sort by column etc 15:53:06 <JVassie> keeps it in a tidier format IMO 16:08:46 *** luckz [~lkz@luckz.de] has joined #openttd 16:11:37 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6FFAC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:13:16 <Eddi|nichZuHause> "Usage" should be fine: values: "P"[assagiere], "S"[chnellzug], "G"[ÃŒterzug], "R"[angieren] 16:13:53 <Eddi|nichZuHause> (afair those are roughly the categorizations of the bavarian state railway) 16:14:10 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:14:30 <Eddi|nichZuHause> "P"[ersonenzug] actually 16:15:12 <Eddi|nichZuHause> this or similar categorizations you find across all state railways 16:15:34 <Eddi|nichZuHause> sometimes "T"[enderlok] instead of "R" 16:15:42 <JVassie> :p 16:16:05 <planetmaker> Eddi|nichZuHause: do we need actually engines categorized as "Rangieren"? 16:16:26 <JVassie> we dont need to germanise every word, surely? :D 16:16:30 <Eddi|nichZuHause> planetmaker: name may vary. 16:16:48 <planetmaker> I don't mean the name... rather: what would it be used for ingame? 16:17:00 <planetmaker> there are no shunting yards 16:17:01 <Eddi|nichZuHause> planetmaker: short distance feeder service 16:17:36 <JVassie> Altbaukessel? 16:17:54 <Eddi|nichZuHause> JVassie: something completely different :p 16:18:02 <planetmaker> :-) 16:18:08 <JVassie> What does it mean, i meant? :p 16:18:10 <planetmaker> kettle old style or something 16:18:21 <planetmaker> boiler? 16:18:24 <planetmaker> dunno the word 16:18:31 <JVassie> xD 16:18:34 <planetmaker> whatever is used for steam 16:18:48 <Eddi|nichZuHause> "Kessel" is where the water is heated, in the steam engine 16:19:05 <JVassie> just wanderign why the BR01 has it and none of the others 16:19:08 <JVassie> *wondering 16:19:09 <Eddi|nichZuHause> "Alt" is "old", and "Bau" is "construction" 16:19:15 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 16:20:05 <Eddi|nichZuHause> JVassie: opposed to "Reko" (many series of the BR01 and BR03 had large reconstructions after the world war, especially in east germany) 16:20:16 <Eddi|nichZuHause> BR 44 as well, i think 16:21:31 <Eddi|nichZuHause> there's a BR 01 (original version), BR 01.10 (improved version before WWII), and BR 01.5 (reconstructed version after WWII) 16:22:00 <Eddi|nichZuHause> BR 03 is the "little sister" of the BR 01, almost identical but lower axle weight 16:24:12 <Eddi|nichZuHause> the BR 01.10 had streamlining and was more powerful than the BR 01 16:24:34 <Eddi|nichZuHause> the BR 01.5 had no streamlining, but was fitted for oil firing instead of coal firing 16:25:52 <Eddi|nichZuHause> planetmaker: "Rangieren" shouldn't be taken literally 16:26:41 <planetmaker> Eddi|nichZuHause: please amend / edit the table 16:26:45 <Eddi|nichZuHause> planetmaker: in terms of DBSetXL, the BR 92 and BR 75 would be in the "R" category, the BR 38 in the "P" category 16:27:10 <Eddi|nichZuHause> actually.. i need to get this work finished first... 16:27:17 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:30:35 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecp147.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 16:37:57 *** ar3k [~ident@ecy160.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:43:00 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 16:44:00 <JVassie> right lads 16:44:06 <JVassie> buh bai for now 16:45:13 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-92-27-53-189.static.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 16:46:47 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sirius.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:52:10 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:52:26 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:53:19 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:00:29 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-010-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:02:00 <Terkhen> hmm... 17:03:04 <Terkhen> it seems that the spain set used sprites from the dutch set, and I can't be sure which ones are from which train set :/ 17:03:18 <planetmaker> :-D 17:03:21 <planetmaker> oh joy 17:03:43 <Rubidium> oh noes... they're invading again? 17:04:02 <Rubidium> but which Dutch trains run in Spain as well? 17:04:07 <planetmaker> sure. what did you think? 17:04:14 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Juo] 17:04:40 <Terkhen> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=334610#p334610 <--- this one for example 17:07:33 <Rubidium> oh, so it is roughly the same train in Spain as well 17:07:50 <Rubidium> but then, I don't really care ;) 17:09:45 <Terkhen> :P 17:11:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:14:51 *** bodis [~bodis@cpc3-ando3-0-0-cust781.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:17:14 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host109-162-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:17:43 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:18:36 <Wolf01> hello 17:19:00 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 17:34:46 *** amkoroew [~matze@p5B10783D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:34:52 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f507b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:57:30 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/StyleGuide <- general notice: use the ttwiki template for links from newgrf-specs to tt-wiki 17:58:18 <Terkhen> ok :) 18:00:20 <core> Anyone familiar with ap+ online? :) 18:01:27 <core> or running a unix dedicated server in general 18:01:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:05:38 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.152.164.38] has joined #openttd 18:06:33 <Terkhen> hi core 18:06:47 <core> hello Terkhen 18:06:54 <andythenorth> hellos 18:07:30 <Terkhen> hi andythenorth 18:08:58 <frosch123> Terkhen: planetmaker: how about renaming the page "Action0Stations" to "Action0/Stations", "VarAction2Vehicles" to "VariationalAction2/Vehicles", ... same for all features? 18:09:12 <frosch123> that way they link back to the parent page which contains the actual syntax 18:09:14 <frosch123> of the action 18:10:19 <planetmaker> how do they then automatically link back? That naming scheme makes that sure? 18:10:32 <frosch123> "Action0Genera" -> "Action0/Vehicles", "Action0Trains" -> "Action0/Vehicles/Trains" 18:10:45 <frosch123> there will be an link at the top of the page 18:10:55 <planetmaker> that's a general mediawiki feature then for names of that type? 18:10:58 <frosch123> something like "Action0 < Vehicles <" 18:11:11 <frosch123> planetmaker: at least i am used to that behaviour 18:11:29 <planetmaker> :-) well, sure, if it works, then that'll be nice 18:11:32 <orudge> just leave redirects in place for the old pages :) 18:11:35 <orudge> although that should happen automatically 18:11:43 <planetmaker> did for me. yes 18:12:04 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 18:12:16 <frosch123> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:PD_help/Copying <- example 18:12:20 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [] 18:12:55 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 18:14:21 <frosch123> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgNamespacesWithSubpages <- hmm, maybe it needs activation by orudge 18:14:28 * orudge can do so 18:14:40 <frosch123> please :) 18:15:07 <orudge> try now 18:18:19 <frosch123> works :) 18:31:31 <planetmaker> frosch123: do you have the pywikibot also running? It could probably help in the renaming... 18:32:15 <planetmaker> svn co http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/pywikipedia/trunk/pywikipedia 18:36:33 *** amkoroew [~matze@p5B10783D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:37:38 <frosch123> maybe i should give it a try, though it will likely take longer than doing it :) 18:40:11 <planetmaker> :-) 18:40:46 <planetmaker> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot/movepages.py 18:40:49 <planetmaker> :-D 18:41:29 <planetmaker> thus it basically needs a list of pages which need renaming 18:41:35 <planetmaker> and it's done then 18:41:54 * orudge will want to do a lot of that on the main wiki eventually 18:42:10 <planetmaker> python movepages.py -pairs:filename 18:42:23 <planetmaker> python movepages.py -pt:0 -pairs:filename 18:42:27 <planetmaker> or it takes ages 18:42:48 <frosch123> do i need a bot account? 18:43:38 <orudge> Ideally, yes 18:44:07 <frosch123> that means, register "fbot" on tt-forums? 18:44:14 <orudge> Yep 18:44:19 <orudge> and I can then give it the bot flag 18:45:14 <planetmaker> frosch123: it also works without. But you can't unthrottle it, thus will have some delays 18:45:25 <planetmaker> And bot edits are hidden by default from the recent changes page 18:46:54 <Terkhen> planetmaker: the explanation about TownZones is "done", right? 18:46:55 <frosch123> orudge: frosch-bot 18:47:22 <planetmaker> Terkhen: I think so, yes. I guess I forgot to mark it as such 18:47:28 <Terkhen> I'll do it 18:47:46 <orudge> frosch123: please log into the wiki with it 18:47:54 <orudge> (or you log on with that username) 18:48:01 <orudge> as I can't update the rights until it exists on the wiki :) 18:48:30 <frosch123> done 18:48:45 <orudge> Thanks, it's now in the bot group 18:54:47 <core> aircraft are operpowered right? 18:56:03 <Terkhen> default aircrafts are overpowered as moneymakers, not so much when you try to cover lines with a lot of traffic with them 18:56:50 <core> what would you recommend as a good fix, such as a multiplier in basecosts? 18:57:37 <Yexo> you could try the av8 newgrf 19:00:12 <Terkhen> ^ 19:03:20 <frosch123> planetmaker: i assume you already have a working family file 19:03:33 <planetmaker> oh, yes, right 19:04:02 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/bot/ 19:04:29 *** Heidistein [~arjen@188.142.22.202] has joined #openttd 19:05:26 <frosch123> thanks 19:05:32 <planetmaker> no problem :-) 19:05:46 <planetmaker> I should have linked you straight away, sorry 19:06:07 <Heidistein> hello, is it known that rev r22594 had a bug in creating stations? 19:06:24 <planetmaker> in what way? 19:06:31 <planetmaker> and hello :-) 19:06:40 <Heidistein> planetmaker, hey:) coredumps. 19:06:57 <Heidistein> It draws the window and dumps 19:07:09 <Heidistein> I have a gdb stacktrace et al 19:07:24 <planetmaker> Heidistein: then please open a bug report with all crash files at our bug tracker. And if you have the stack trace, the better :-) 19:08:10 <Heidistein> /me salutes, yes sir, wil do. Wasn't sure if reporting against svn was valid 19:08:22 <Yexo> it sure is 19:08:22 <planetmaker> of course it's valid :-) 19:08:22 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 19:08:35 <planetmaker> that's the place where things are changed and where they get fixed 19:08:49 <Heidistein> yes, i got that ;-) 19:09:15 <planetmaker> that's why the bug tracker has a version field :-P 19:09:24 <Heidistein> kk, i will file a bugreport now, and then revert couple 'o days. 19:09:44 <Heidistein> hmmm, you could've guessed i havent even bin there yet... 19:10:02 <planetmaker> if you know which nightly (or revision) works and which not... that's also possibly interesting info? 19:10:12 <planetmaker> how do you manage to crash it? Anything special to do? 19:10:32 <Heidistein> yes, i do. recently there was a change in station{something}.cpp, which broke it 19:10:45 <planetmaker> well... but it works for me [TM] 19:10:50 <Yexo> planetmaker: not with newgrf stations 19:10:52 <Heidistein> no, its quite easy, opening the maglev stationbuild thingie 19:11:15 <Heidistein> and, indied as Yexo sais, with some newgrf's 19:11:28 <Heidistein> says* 19:11:31 <planetmaker> right... as soon as I add station newgrfs 19:13:09 <Heidistein> you.,... are able to reproduce? 19:13:15 <planetmaker> yes 19:13:43 <Heidistein> cewl 19:14:08 <planetmaker> hm... can that be really broken for 4 days without anyone noticing? 19:14:49 <Heidistein> sorry... I have bin building a scenario and not playing.... 19:15:15 <Terkhen> no nightlies? :P 19:15:32 <Terkhen> which revision is the first one affected? compilation on windows is slow, but I suspect my changes 19:15:56 <Yexo> which is? 19:16:07 <planetmaker> Heidistein: no need for you to apologise... :-) But that *noone* ... is "interesting" 19:16:31 <Yexo> Terkhen: r22592 works fine, so it's one of my changes 19:16:35 <Heidistein> Darn Terkhen, that is a good question, lemme find out 19:16:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-165-112.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:16:44 <Heidistein> planetmaker, i forgot the ';-)' 19:16:57 <Eddi|nichZuHause> my crystal ball says it's the "don't show accepted" stuff 19:17:13 <Terkhen> hmmm... but r22593 looks harmless 19:17:22 <Yexo> but that one causes it 19:17:24 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:17:29 <Terkhen> strange :) 19:17:51 <Eddi|nichZuHause> @commit 22593 19:17:51 <DorpsGek> Eddi|nichZuHause: Commit by yexo :: r22593 trunk/src/station_gui.cpp (2011-06-16 09:46:24 UTC) 19:17:52 <DorpsGek> Eddi|nichZuHause: -Fix [FS#4647]: don't show cargo accepted/produced in the new station window when no tiles are selected (mouse hovering a window or toolbar) 19:18:18 <planetmaker> hm 19:18:33 <Heidistein> i suspect that one 19:19:20 <Heidistein> in: int DrawStationCoverageAreaText( 19:19:25 <Heidistein> - if (tile < MapSize()) { 19:19:25 <Heidistein> + if (_thd.drawstyle == HT_RECT && tile < MapSize()) { 19:19:32 <Terkhen> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/289/ <--- stacktrace from MSVC 19:20:57 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/290/ 19:21:06 <Heidistein> ok, just tested, I reverted that diff i pasted and that wont crash 19:21:06 <planetmaker> ^ gcc here 19:22:39 <orudge> planetmaker: any chance you could run your table-fixing script on ECSTVTCKarlstein and ECSTVTCNeuSchwansteinCastle on the main TT wiki, if you're not too busy? :) 19:25:34 <Zuu> accepted/produced in the new station window <--- did the station window get an update recently? 19:25:42 <Zuu> (last nightly fails on my mirror) 19:26:06 <Zuu> (the cz mirror) 19:27:05 <Yexo> there are no new nightlies the last few days 19:27:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.166.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.166.145] has joined #openttd 19:27:43 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-067-255-045.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:28:45 <frosch123> planetmaker: thanks, worked well 19:30:05 <planetmaker> sweet :-) 19:30:06 <planetmaker> orudge: done 19:30:23 <orudge> Thanks :) 19:30:25 <planetmaker> ah... no nightlies... right 19:30:30 <planetmaker> there was *something* ;-) 19:32:44 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 19:33:11 <Heidistein> damnit! i dont get it, as far as i see '_thd.drawstyle == HT_RECT' should be true 19:33:33 <Yexo> Heidistein: that's unrelated to the error 19:33:40 <Yexo> not completely, but it doesn't crash there 19:34:12 <Heidistein> uh, well, oh.. 19:34:47 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:34:50 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 19:35:31 <Eddi|nichZuHause> i had it in my guts that this commit would cause trouble right when i read it 19:36:11 <Heidistein> then i am realy missing it. My guess was that it crashes if it wont enter that if-block 19:38:05 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 19:41:47 * Eddi|nichZuHause ->home() 19:41:56 *** Eddi|nichZuHause [~EddinichZ@46.115.2.70] has quit [] 19:50:56 *** macee [~macee@dsl4E5C1F8E.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 20:05:37 <core> Anyone familiar with ap+ online? :) 20:06:37 <michi_cc> frosch123: Wouldn't it make more sense to configure appropriate interwiki links for the various related wikis instead of using some template stuff? 20:09:34 <frosch123> did not know that, might be useful 20:10:15 <michi_cc> orudge: With http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SpecialInterwiki interwiki links can be configured without DB hacking. 20:11:29 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 20:18:44 <planetmaker> core: you keep asking meta questions. Surely *someone* is familiar with it. But... so what? What then? 20:18:54 <planetmaker> @topic get -3 20:18:54 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask 20:19:49 <planetmaker> unless you ask a meaningful question, I doubt you'll get an answer you'll find useful 20:20:21 <andythenorth> am I missing the 'filter' in multiplayer join server window? 20:20:33 <planetmaker> what filter, andythenorth ? 20:20:36 <planetmaker> or generally one? 20:20:47 <andythenorth> so there isn't one? 20:20:48 <planetmaker> for server name or <whatever> 20:20:52 <andythenorth> like text string or such 20:20:53 <planetmaker> I guess there might be none. 20:21:00 <andythenorth> I guess too 20:21:01 <planetmaker> ponies 20:21:19 <Zuu> Hmm, having multiple (but different) definitions of the same Enum is clearly not very useful :-) 20:21:43 <SmatZ> :) 20:21:50 *** Heidistein [~arjen@188.142.22.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:22:12 <SmatZ> such code is undefined, iirc 20:22:32 <SmatZ> I think even invalid 20:22:45 <planetmaker> like define + - ? ;-) 20:22:59 <SmatZ> :) 20:23:03 <SmatZ> hehe 20:23:17 <SmatZ> just today I had a thought about #define 1 0 20:23:33 <SmatZ> placed somewhere in a system header 20:23:37 <planetmaker> :-D 20:23:39 <SmatZ> how people would be confused :) 20:24:27 <planetmaker> that comes close to https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be85247755cdbe0acce6#diff-0 20:24:31 <Zuu> SmatZ: One of them had a NONE/INVALID item at the beginning while the other one didn't :-) 20:24:35 <planetmaker> (I know, oooold) 20:25:07 <SmatZ> hmm #define 1 0 is illegal :( 20:25:49 <SmatZ> planetmaker: :-D 20:26:06 <SmatZ> planetmaker: that's beautiful :) 20:26:13 <SmatZ> Zuu: hehe :) 20:26:22 <Terkhen> #define PI 3 20:26:27 <SmatZ> nooooo :) 20:27:33 <SmatZ> I used to #define PI (atan(1) * 4) ... 20:27:47 <SmatZ> but then I found out the compiler won't do the math in compile time... 20:29:07 <SmatZ> hmm now gcc does optimise that 20:29:11 <SmatZ> even with -O0 20:29:24 *** Pixa [~Pixa@85.210.67.111] has joined #openttd 20:29:30 <Zuu> planetmaker: Lol what a huge amount of comments :-) 20:29:49 <planetmaker> I didn't even look at those :-P 20:29:53 <SmatZ> 3.3.6 won't, 3.4.6 does the compile time path 20:31:10 <SmatZ> *math 20:31:11 <Terkhen> :P 20:31:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r22595 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4560] (r22593): build railstation gui was broken with newgrf stations 20:34:23 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:18 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 20:42:44 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:50 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:49 *** Amis [~Amis@5400C336.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Quit: *pop*] 20:53:41 *** macee [~macee@dsl4E5C1F8E.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:55:57 <core> if i get the 2cc trainset do i need NuTracks? 20:57:38 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-97-92.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 20:58:19 <Yexo> afaik know it's optional 21:00:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:05:25 <Terkhen> yes, it's optional 21:06:14 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecp147.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: âI-n-v-i-s-i-o-nâ 3.2 (July '10)] 21:13:45 <core> thank you 21:14:19 <core> I added 2cc which should give engines from 1836 or something onwards but cannot biuld track that early 21:16:14 <Yexo> you should be able to build track as soon as the first engine is available 21:16:47 <core> Le Belge Belgium 1835 21:16:59 <core> ill try 1850 21:17:22 <Yexo> core: after stating a game, open the train list and click "available trains' 21:17:30 <Yexo> if there is a train there but you can't build track, it's a bug in openttd 21:17:33 *** ar3k [~ident@ecp147.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 21:17:36 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 21:17:48 <Yexo> if there isn't a train in that list, it's not provided by any newgrf 21:24:26 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 21:25:07 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:33:09 <Terkhen> good night 21:33:13 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:33:31 <andythenorth> bye 21:38:51 <Eddi|zuHause> so... 21:39:14 <Eddi|zuHause> what happened today while i was away... 21:39:32 <Eddi|zuHause> so much talk, buffer isn't even long enough 21:40:36 <Alberth> give it a few KB extra :) 21:41:40 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-97-92.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:42:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it's measured in lines, i believe 21:45:05 <Zuu> Maybe this is old, but I found out there was a long article/interview about ludde in a Swedish magazine (Filter). Unfortutately the article is in swedish. 21:46:23 <__ln__> Everybody knows Swedish. 21:46:39 <Markk> :) 21:50:57 *** Blacklite [~Blacklite@76.10.223.136] has joined #openttd 21:51:47 <Zuu> I usually don't read paper magazines but a coworker sent me this article. :-) It seems to be the june/july 2011 issue. 21:51:56 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:57:45 <Zuu> __ln__: Is that why (some) people in Finland think that Swedish language education shouldn't be mandatory anymore? 21:58:19 <Zuu> ... because everybody already knows it :-) 21:59:08 <Alberth> chefspeak is very readable :) 22:00:05 *** Pixa [~Pixa@85.210.67.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:00:50 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:01:51 *** elmz_ [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 22:02:48 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 22:03:08 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:24 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 22:06:46 <Zuu> Never heard about chefspeak but found it explained on wikipedia :-) 22:09:12 *** JVassie [569e818b@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:09:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 22:09:45 <JVassie> evenin' 22:09:56 <planetmaker> good night 22:10:09 <Zuu> night planetmaker 22:10:19 <JVassie> nn planetmaker 22:13:04 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: The Third Tiberium War - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 22:24:33 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:33:54 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-100-246.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 22:34:56 *** JVassie [569e818b@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 22:39:55 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-48-139.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:43:36 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-010-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 22:48:04 <frosch123> night 22:48:07 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f507b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:54 <Zuu> Good night 22:53:25 <Eddi|zuHause> breaking news: the federal trojan^W^W electronic identification application for linux was released. size: 350MB 22:54:26 <Eddi|zuHause> (only for debian/ubuntu and firefox/iceweasel) 22:57:47 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:21 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:15 <Wolf01> 'night 23:04:19 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host109-162-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:05:21 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 23:05:39 *** _goblin_ [~goblin@dslb-088-067-255-115.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 23:09:35 *** Westie [~westie@raptor.typefish.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:10:06 *** Westie [~westie@raptor.typefish.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:12:33 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-067-255-045.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:20:32 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:23:50 *** amkoroew [~matze@p5B10783D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:35:33 *** _goblin_ [~goblin@dslb-088-067-255-115.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:40:30 *** amkoroew [~matze@p5B10783D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:51:01 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:54:55 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B30F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:40 *** Westie [~westie@raptor.typefish.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:56:35 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-165-112.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]