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Log for #openttd on 25th July 2011:
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00:00:07  *** a_p3rson [603c15ee@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
00:00:51  <a_p3rson> woops
00:00:52  <a_p3rson> #openttd
00:01:47  <a_p3rson> does anyone know if its possible to update OpenTTD for PPC with the new game files?
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00:31:59  <donoteat> I'm trying to send someone a scenario for to start a multiplayer server...
00:32:04  <donoteat> he runs linux, I run windows
00:32:32  <donoteat> for some reason, he says the .grf files for the scenario won't work, because it's looking for forward slashes
00:32:37  <donoteat> while linux uses backslashes
00:32:50  <donoteat> err
00:32:52  <donoteat> other way around
00:32:59  <donoteat> at any rate
00:33:08  <donoteat> is there a way around this problem?
00:33:59  <Nowaker> hmmm... you see, I play on linux
00:34:10  <Nowaker> I sent *.sav to my friends who is playing on Linux
00:34:13  <Nowaker> and it worked
00:36:01  <donoteat> dunno if this has to do with the fact that it's .scn
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00:36:08  <donoteat> we're using the openttdcoop graphics pack; I think that's part of the problem
00:55:00  <donoteat> actually we just didn't have the offending grfs installed
00:55:02  <donoteat> :\
00:55:04  <donoteat> whoops
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07:16:48  <planetmaker> moin
07:16:51  <planetmaker> @logs
07:16:51  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
07:16:58  <Terkhen> good morning
07:22:52  *** planetmaker changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.1.1, 1.1.2-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only
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08:08:25  <__ln__> wtf is wrong with the royal mail, they don't support tracking shipments arriving from abroad.
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10:26:18  <__ln__> train 1 - elk 0:  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27048766/hirvi.jpg
10:26:39  <peter1138> ....
10:31:36  <MNIM> imagine how the driver must have felt >.<
10:31:39  * MNIM cringes
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10:36:06  <Eddi|zuHause> the engine probably wouldn't pass the elk test...
10:36:23  <MNIM> hahaha
10:36:27  <MNIM> ya sure?
10:36:49  <Eddi|zuHause> fairly :p
10:37:01  <MNIM> doesn't "wiped the elk of the face of the earth" count as passed?
10:38:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the goal of the test was to _not_ hit the elk ;)
10:38:34  <MNIM> ooooooooh.
10:43:01  <Eddi|zuHause> "In Schweden hieß der Elchtest ursprÃŒnglich Kindertest."
10:43:13  <MNIM> lol
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11:02:33  <Zuu> Not sure exactly what that translates to, but in order to take the driving license here you have to make a test where a fake deer/elk appears on the road.
11:03:03  <Zuu> and you will try to stear away from it on a really icy road.
11:06:17  <MNIM> zuu: "in sweden the 'elktest' was originally called the 'childtest'."
11:06:23  <planetmaker> he, sounds interesting :-)
11:06:51  <planetmaker> lol. MNIM check out Zuu's host mask ;-)
11:09:16  <MNIM> i know
11:11:16  <Zuu> The test itself is really hard to fail, as it mostly intend to make people aware of the dangers of icy roads rather than requiring everyone to become a rally driver.
11:12:00  <__ln__> Zuu: is it done on oiled metal in the summertime?
11:12:09  <Zuu> yes
11:12:19  <__ln__> ok, same as here then
11:12:29  <Zuu> although, I did mine in the winter so I had "real" icy conditions
11:13:04  <__ln__> oiled metal is quite different from actual ice... so it's a bit unrealistic
11:14:59  <__ln__> on metal you don't know if the wheels are locked or not when you push the brake.
11:15:29  <Noldo_> unrealistic?
11:15:31  <__ln__> on real ice you feel and hear that immediately.
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11:16:15  <Zuu> __ln__: you mean the feeling when the lock-free brakes start to do its work?
11:17:06  <MNIM> the difference between oild metal and ice is obviously that ice provides grib as long as the touching surfaces don't slip, but as soon as they slip the top layer melts, providing a nice 'weeeee'
11:17:12  <MNIM> *oiled
11:17:16  <__ln__> Zuu: that, or with an older vehicle when the non-lock-free brakes are locked.
11:18:17  <Noldo_> so oiled is like water with bad tires?
11:18:42  <Zuu> I only ever drove a non-lock-free vehicle at the ice test where you got to do the dest with and without the lock-free system enabled.
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11:22:09  <Eddi|zuHause> they don't have such a driving test over here
11:22:36  <Eddi|zuHause> but you can do an additional "driving security training", which probably includes such things
11:22:41  <MNIM> same here
11:23:37  <MNIM> though, i'm a bit surprised, eddi.
11:24:33  <MNIM> you have mandatory winter tires in the cold season, and snow chains around the tires where applicable, but no mandatory elk test?
11:25:02  <planetmaker> that's how it is, yes
11:25:31  <__ln__> i guess the main point is to learn that when your rear wheels are sliding left, the vehicle can be kept on road by steering _________.
11:25:34  <Eddi|zuHause> mandatory winter tires is a really new thing
11:26:56  <MNIM> ln: i imagine the modern game generation has it far easier.
11:27:59  <MNIM> i mean, with all the racing games
11:30:57  <dihedral> playing quake3 at work - just love it
11:31:05  <dihedral> hello :-)
11:31:15  <MNIM> hahaha
11:31:21  <MNIM> and the boss doesn't object?
11:32:14  <planetmaker> you should eat more fruit, dihedral :-P
11:32:21  <planetmaker> hello :-)
11:33:05  <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: at my time, they would have immediately thrown you out when you said "i learned from GTA" in the first driving lesson :p
11:33:46  <MNIM> lol
11:33:49  <MNIM> well
11:33:58  <MNIM> gta *is* pretty horrible at the driving parts
11:34:06  <MNIM> unless it's improved since i last played it
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11:52:03  <dihedral> talking about gta - had a crash yesterday with my lovely mini countryman :-(
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11:52:23  <dihedral> someone managed to come to a halt just a bit sooner than me :-P
11:52:25  <dihedral> ouch!
11:53:44  <dihedral> silly airbags caused most damage
11:54:24  <Eddi|zuHause> your airbags actually went off?
11:55:05  <dihedral> yep
11:55:13  <dihedral> 2 in the front, and one of the side airbags
11:55:23  <dihedral> which goes from the front right to the back
11:56:49  <planetmaker> outch. That's expensive
11:57:09  <planetmaker> must be quite a bang, then, though
11:58:09  <MNIM> 30kmh is the usual airbag deployment speed
11:58:20  <MNIM> but you mean in IRL, dihedral?
11:58:44  <dihedral> where else?
11:58:47  <planetmaker> hm, 30km/h IS fast
11:59:05  <dihedral> and those airbags are 'armed' as of 15-20 km/h
11:59:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i probably had lower speed in my crash
11:59:37  <MNIM> well, you said 'speaking of gta'
11:59:55  <dihedral> ok - i did not steal the car :-D
12:00:27  <MNIM> lol
12:01:04  * planetmaker didn't yet crash a car
12:01:44  <MNIM> neityher did i - but that has more to do that i never drive one than that i'm a good driver
12:02:16  <planetmaker> >80% of all men anyway believe that they're above average drivers.
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12:03:15  <dihedral> planetmaker, the problem is not if YOU are above average, but if the one in front of you is too :-D
12:03:30  <dihedral> i blame the guy 2 cars in front of me :-P
12:03:38  <MNIM> well, i /might/ just be an above average driver, if only i had a driver's licence :P
12:03:57  <dihedral> he stopped on the innermost lane just because someone was indicating to join that lane
12:04:03  <dihedral> he actually stopped
12:04:35  <planetmaker> dihedral, wrong. If you hit a car from the rear, you do definitely something wrong
12:05:25  <MNIM> depends. if that car in front of you stopped far faster than one could accomplish with braking (EG, he hit the handbrake or hit a lmappost)
12:05:39  <MNIM> then there's little to help
12:05:46  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: he may get partial responsibility, but only if you got the license plate ;)
12:05:51  <dihedral> braking assist ;-)
12:06:37  <dihedral> planetmaker, compare: fully loaded van: 5 people who came back from a holiday in a peugeot 807 to a single person in a mini
12:06:45  <MNIM> dihedral: reaction time.
12:06:56  <planetmaker> dihedral, yes, and?
12:06:58  <dihedral> my distance was ok(ish) however the guy in front had way better grip
12:07:07  <planetmaker> it's about the saftey distance which is then missing
12:07:09  <dihedral> and i skid the last 5 m
12:07:41  <dihedral> either how - of course it's my blame, the person to hit from the back is always at blame ^^
12:07:49  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that's kinda backwards, though. you only know that the safety distance was too short when you hit something.
12:08:01  <MNIM> planetmaker: does the safety distance include instant decelleration?
12:08:20  <dihedral> + it's the same with when 'ABS' came out new
12:08:30  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: that's only 80% true. if the person in front made an obvious driving mistake, he can get partial responsibility
12:08:30  <dihedral> all cars without managed to hit those that were equiped
12:08:43  <dihedral> the person in front of me was fine
12:09:05  <dihedral> the person in front of him was at wrong to do an emergency braking - however we have not details from that guy
12:09:29  <planetmaker> MNIM, which car does decelerate instantly without you following it being slightly aware of danger emerging?
12:09:31  <dihedral> the guys at the garage asked if i hit a pole and were surprised to see the airbags had deployed
12:09:51  <dihedral> planetmaker, you have cars with sensors? ;-)
12:10:06  <dihedral> i.e. the bmw from my boss will do emergency braking for you if nesesary
12:10:23  <dihedral> and that way faster than i ever could
12:10:45  <planetmaker> they only break at ~30% of what could be done.
12:11:01  <dihedral> that car does not - i drove it ;-)
12:11:38  <dihedral> even if it only brakes 30 % - it starts reducing your speed faster than i can react
12:12:00  <planetmaker> reaction time != breaking power applied ;-)
12:12:01  <dihedral> any car with that equipment should be labled from the rear :-D
12:12:31  <dihedral> pm: starting to brake 30ms sooner than i can react is enough
12:13:04  <planetmaker> yes, that's a gain of 20 ... 30%
12:13:17  <dihedral> which can make a diff of a few m
12:13:29  <planetmaker> lots of
12:13:32  <dihedral> and that difference is all it takes
12:13:49  <dihedral> the actual damage on the outside is really hardly worth mentioning :-P
12:14:14  <dihedral> there is a dent in the bumper and in the bumpers metal frame - everything else behind is fine
12:14:27  <dihedral> (acroding to the guys working on the car)
12:14:29  <planetmaker> if there's no structural deformation...
12:14:58  <dihedral> 2k damage on the outside, 6k on the inside :-D
12:15:05  <dihedral> (that's my guess)
12:15:18  <MNIM> hmmmh, who makes the fish set again?
12:15:21  <planetmaker> that's a lot. I hope you have "Vollkasko"?
12:15:29  <dihedral> yep - sure do
12:15:37  <dihedral> and i am insured against my 'eigenbeteiligung' :-D
12:15:49  <MNIM> i'm looking for the latest set because i reinstalled linux, and i'm guessing it's not on the bananamobile
12:16:14  <planetmaker> for certain definitions of 'latest': there is
12:16:19  <dihedral> MNIM, usually the authors are named somewhere - but ask andythenorth - once he's around
12:16:22  <planetmaker> check out devzone for nightlies
12:16:38  <MNIM> oh yes. that's the one, thanks
12:17:02  <MNIM> but it doesn't look like he's online atm
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12:17:14  * planetmaker wonders how difficult it is to briefly google the FISH ship set and find the proper links ready at hand
12:17:54  * planetmaker also wonders whether MNIM thinks that andy will give another link ;-)
12:18:42  <MNIM> because i'm laaaaazy
12:18:49  *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecp203.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd
12:19:45  <MNIM> and thinking is not my strongest property when i'm disturbed five times in my morning sleep five by the phone
12:20:16  <planetmaker> good. Then there's no need to support lazyness
12:20:21  <MNIM> awwww.
12:20:41  <dihedral> is lazyness not kicked? :-P
12:20:48  * dihedral chuckles
12:21:46  <dihedral> anyway - no animals were hurt or killed in the accident :-P
12:21:58  <planetmaker> dihedral, not that. But it'll have me re-consider in the future whether my advice is well-spent
12:22:07  <dihedral> :-D
12:22:08  <dihedral> aye
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12:27:03  <MNIM> huh. according to google 6.1 *is* the latest version.
12:29:53  <dihedral> ...
12:30:49  <MNIM> i mean 0.9.1
12:31:34  <dihedral> even more ...
12:31:55  <dihedral> trust google to give you the url it found the information on, dont trust it to always of the top-most news
12:32:10  <dihedral> i.e. google bot only comes around at certain intervals
12:34:05  <MNIM> well, i did hop on the dev thread
12:34:25  <MNIM> *release thread
12:34:32  <MNIM> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=45435&start=0 Q.E.D.
12:36:01  <planetmaker> as  I said... the devzone hosts the nightlies
12:36:21  <planetmaker> bundles.openttdcoop.org...
12:36:35  <planetmaker> and now I feel dirty
12:37:01  <planetmaker> having supported whining and lazyness
12:37:39  <planetmaker> I'd like to say that reading the readme would also be worthwhile. But then you'd have to know that the tar can be un-tared in order to find the readme...
12:37:54  <planetmaker> which is too much for the average joe
12:38:01  <MNIM> lol
12:38:10  <MNIM> hey, i'm not whining
12:38:39  <MNIM> just being lazy and asking somebody what's the newest version is just that much faster and easier.
12:40:43  <planetmaker> dully noted
12:42:26  <Belugas> hello
12:42:27  <planetmaker> and I need a new screen... I have a 1px wide vertical blue bar across it :S
12:42:32  <planetmaker> hello Belugas
12:42:59  <MNIM> hmmmh, that's not nice.
12:43:16  <Belugas> hi planetmaker :D
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12:50:40  <dihedral> Belugas \o/
12:50:48  <MNIM> 0-o
12:51:16  <dihedral> <planetmaker> and now I feel dirty <- you like that, don't you? :-D
12:52:19  <dihedral> http://failblog.org/2011/07/25/epic-fail-photos-slide-size-fail/ :-D
12:53:06  <Noldo_> marketing
12:55:40  <MNIM> lol
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12:58:53  <planetmaker> dihedral, life can only sprout where there's dirt ;-)
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12:59:33  <MNIM> hahaha
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13:39:41  <dihedral> :-P
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14:10:13  <Zuu> Hmm feels like I've opened a can of worms by moving some road functions from CluelessPlus to SuperLib :-)
14:10:41  <Zuu> SuperLib now has about 175 functions :-)
14:12:17  <planetmaker> hehe.
14:12:32  <planetmaker> btw, Zuu. Results of the AI tournament are very soonish available.
14:12:40  <Zuu> nice
14:12:42  <Eddi|zuHause> split it into SubSuperLibs ;)
14:12:42  <planetmaker> It only took 16.4 hours :-P
14:13:26  <Zuu> On the other hand I've reduced the main.nut file of CluelessPlus from about 4000 lines to "only" 1500 lines of code.
14:13:47  <Zuu> (not only by this, but also by moving the connection class to a separate file)
14:16:09  <planetmaker> in the end that sounds at least reasonable
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14:37:30  <dihedral> planetmaker, the .4 being 40 minutes or 24 minutes
14:37:53  <planetmaker> decimal hours
14:38:01  <planetmaker> 985 minutes, if you like :-)
14:38:33  <dihedral> :-P
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14:40:57  <dihedral> i should have looked into the other channel :-P
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14:51:21  <eQualizer> How do I build tunnels/bridges for both trams and trucks?
14:53:56  <eQualizer> Oh, it worked as I suspected, except I had to hit the right spot on the tile.
14:55:10  <planetmaker> meh... seems I forgot to configure AdmiralAI into the tournament. Of course I only notice that after it's finished...
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15:05:43  <LordAro> afternoonings
15:06:37  <Alberth> just in time :)
15:06:59  <LordAro> :?
15:07:41  <Alberth> in less than an hour it is evenings here
15:08:21  <LordAro> evenings = 18:00?
15:10:25  <planetmaker> salut LordAro
15:11:08  <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=959740#p959740 <-- LordAro ;-)
15:11:46  <planetmaker> it did quite well, given the score
15:12:51  <LordAro> planetmaker: you nicked my idea! i did the same quite recently: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=49818
15:12:59  <LordAro> although yes, not a bad score
15:13:45  <planetmaker> he, yes, I did :-)
15:14:02  <planetmaker> Though I basically revived truebrain's code from the dawn of noai time
15:15:05  <planetmaker> ah, you had that, too ;-)
15:16:09  <LordAro> yes, although i had/have no idea where rubidium got it from :)
15:16:41  <planetmaker> from his useful patch collection ;-)
15:17:46  <LordAro> :)
15:18:42  <planetmaker> but indeed it expects the AIs in unexpected directories, I found that out, too ;-)
15:18:42  <TrueBrain> he likes to steal my patches and store it as his own :D:D:D
15:18:44  <TrueBrain> *troll*
15:19:04  <planetmaker> :-P
15:19:15  <planetmaker> especially those with filenames like tb_xyz.diff ;-)
15:21:37  <TrueBrain> I once tried to make a 'freezer' where I could store silly patches .. but somehow that got lost ... :(
15:22:12  <planetmaker> 'freezer'?
15:22:54  <TrueBrain> yeah, somewhere to store a silly patch for later use
15:22:56  <TrueBrain> to 'freeze' it in
15:23:06  <TrueBrain> maybe that is a typical dutch thing to say, not sure :D
15:24:11  * Alberth has 10-15 patch queues 'in queue' :)
15:24:30  <planetmaker> that's what I have my diff dir for ;-)
15:26:11  <TrueBrain> but those things get unreadable very fast
15:26:16  <TrueBrain> like .. what was this diff for? :P
15:26:24  <TrueBrain> to what revision does it apply?
15:26:30  <TrueBrain> why did I stop working on it? :P
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15:26:56  <planetmaker> the revision is stored in the patch?
15:27:13  <Alberth> usually after removing stuff since 'this is old', you remember you just need that patch. :)
15:27:14  <planetmaker> as of the 'why stopped working' might be indeed very useful additional info
15:27:31  <TrueBrain> Alberth: yeah :D
15:27:59  <Alberth> planetmaker: hg does:  # Parent e7d1452497d81ee7a465008c8e357c06cc2c6006
15:30:02  <LordAro> anyway: i got readme viewer working!! :D (although i forgot to take a pic) just a couple more problems to solve (non-critical) : http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/371/
15:32:08  <Alberth> nice, ok if I look at it tomorrow? I have visitors today
15:32:33  <LordAro> np, as long as you don't forget ;)
15:33:34  <Alberth> I am sure some Lord will remind me in that case ;)
15:33:37  <Rubidium> the string drawing is limited to ~2000 characters. If you really need more, then I think you'd need to think of something fancy. It's related to why the scrollbar doesn't work
15:34:03  <Rubidium> as there's only one item to scroll through
15:34:44  <LordAro> split it into single characters/lines?
15:34:53  <Rubidium> which means there needs to be some "smartness" to split the file into logical bits, or just lines and just draw those
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15:35:42  <Rubidium> though I fear that splitting it per line is safest
15:36:28  <LordAro> you 'fear' ?
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15:39:36  <LordAro> would a good way of separating the char per line be if (text[i] = \n) ... ?
15:41:13  <Alberth> depends on what you want to do with lines longer than the width of the window
15:42:10  <LordAro> they autowrap at the moment
15:43:01  <Alberth> that is not what I asked :)
15:43:50  <Alberth> if you don't autowrap, \n would be the logical splitting point
15:44:12  <glx> we have FormatStringLinebreaks() too
15:45:39  * Alberth looks in the doxygen docs
15:46:59  <Alberth> seems to work too, except it messes up the original text. If that is not a problem, that would be another way
15:47:23  * andythenorth awaits new router
15:48:21  <Alberth> but if you do autowrap, each wrapped line should become a line of text (at least that seems like a good way of doing it at first sight to me).
15:48:43  <Zuu> LordAro: You could look into TutorialAI/menu.tar which splits text strings into lines so that they fit on signs.
15:49:07  <Zuu> The limit will in this case however be based on pixel length and not char length which makes it a bit more complicated.
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15:59:06  <LordAro> hmm, where is FormatStringLineBreaks() ? i can't find it (doxygen)
15:59:40  <Alberth> Definition at line 677 of file gfx.cpp.
16:00:05  <LordAro> thanks Alberth, et al :)
16:00:27  <planetmaker> grep -Ri "blah text" src/* is soooo helpful ;-)
16:00:51  <Alberth> LordAro: files -> globals -> f -> click function
16:01:04  <Alberth> planetmaker: ack "blah text"   :)
16:01:45  <planetmaker> :-P
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16:17:54  <Rubidium> the fear was more for the case where the readme has lines of 80 length and you can only print 75. Then each line will be shown over two lines, one with 75 chars and one with 5.
16:18:08  <Rubidium> ofcourse you could remove newlines in that case
16:18:18  <Rubidium> but what if there's an enumeration
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16:21:21  <Rubidium> why do I scare people away with my fears? ;)
16:24:47  <planetmaker> Rubidium: you're a nasty edge-case-mentioning person ;-)
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17:45:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22688 /trunk/src/lang/ (greek.txt vietnamese.txt):
17:45:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: greek - 4 changes by fumantsu, kyrm
17:45:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 5 changes by nglekhoi
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18:22:10  <Wolf01> hello
18:26:36  <__ln__> come stai?
18:29:01  <Wolf01> hi __ln__, fine thanks :)
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20:01:55  <MNIM> http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/Black%20%26%20Co.%2C%2029th%20Jan%201900.png
20:01:56  <MNIM> hmmmh.
20:02:03  <MNIM> well, the infrastructure is there.
20:02:11  <MNIM> now to actually get a town growing! :D
20:02:35  <Eddi|zuHause> file not found
20:03:15  <MNIM> de heck.
20:03:29  <MNIM> wait a second, is probably caused by that dot in there
20:03:46  *** douknoukem [~KEM@88.227.74.208] has joined #openttd
20:03:51  <__ln__> that file not found image is given with http code 200. ain't that so wrong?
20:04:34  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: plenty ;)
20:04:36  <MNIM> http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/Black%20and%20Co%20-%2029th%20Jan%201900.png
20:04:40  <MNIM> that should work
20:04:51  <__ln__> does anyone know if the content-type of a 404 body can be image/something?
20:05:04  <planetmaker> yes :-P
20:05:30  <Eddi|zuHause> urgs... grid...
20:06:42  <Eddi|zuHause> town center in such a dead end position might reduce your growth by 2/3
20:06:48  <MNIM> oh.
20:07:21  <Eddi|zuHause> it sees the center tile as road with 3 directions. two of them are dead end, so growth attempt gets cancelled
20:07:23  <planetmaker> __ln__: I'm quite sure I've seen such
20:08:08  <MNIM> hmmmh, didn't think of it like that
20:14:47  <Rubidium> andythenorth: isn't old station sets not supporting bridges over stations a good thing? Then the users will either drop the old unmaintained stuff, or they'll have to complain to the maintainer of said unmaintained station set. The only caveat is that they keep asking why it doesn't work for station X
20:15:06  <Rubidium> unless we make a quite clear error message, but even those get probably ignored ;)
20:15:13  <andythenorth> meh :)
20:15:25  <andythenorth> I thought there was a lot of concern about legacy support?
20:15:29  <andythenorth> in this case, nothing breaks
20:15:43  <andythenorth> but a lot of work is done to ottd that won't be used in the majority of games
20:16:04  <andythenorth> but if that work is interesting to someone....why not :P
20:16:29  <Rubidium> yup... just like multiplayer and NewGRFs
20:16:36  <andythenorth> actually I'm just confused about legacy support
20:16:54  <andythenorth> but I don't want to restart some boring arguments
20:17:12  <peter1138> bridges over stations?
20:17:38  <Rubidium> yes, you have a patch for that somewhere in the fuzzle directory
20:17:42  <peter1138> quite
20:17:43  <planetmaker> not to be confused with stations over bridges
20:17:51  <peter1138> glitchy, of course
20:18:03  <andythenorth> when acceleration values were changed, was that because ottd was out of spec?
20:18:05  <Eddi|zuHause> only supporting original stations, afair
20:18:18  <Rubidium> andythenorth: yep
20:18:51  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: lots of grf authors complained that their carefully crafted acceleration values for ttdpatch did not hold in openttd
20:18:53  <Rubidium> it still, slightly is, but not by orders of magnitude
20:19:02  <andythenorth> does TTDP have RV acceleration?
20:19:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe so
20:19:16  <andythenorth> ok
20:19:24  <andythenorth> that's one minor gripe I can discard then
20:19:57  <Rubidium> andythenorth: since 2.5 alpha 30 if the specs are correct
20:20:10  <Rubidium> which means not in any stable release of TTDPatch
20:20:33  <Eddi|zuHause> almost no features are in any stable release of TTDPatch
20:20:51  <planetmaker> well... the only stable is 2.0, eh?
20:20:58  <planetmaker> and earlier, possibly
20:20:59  <Eddi|zuHause> "stable" ttdpatch is even older than the dbsetxl :p
20:21:22  <planetmaker> though there's several 2.0.x blah bluh versions
20:21:37  <planetmaker> which I never understood really how they follow
20:21:51  <andythenorth> when will ottd become the reference implementation for newgrf spec?
20:22:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember playing 1.6 or 1.7
20:22:09  <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's already. For all new stuff
20:22:24  <andythenorth> so...
20:22:28  <planetmaker> First come first serve
20:22:31  <Eddi|zuHause> that was before newgrf support
20:22:38  <andythenorth> ...any grfs that don't comply with ottd spec are out of spec :P
20:23:07  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: wth are you talking about?
20:24:32  <andythenorth> trying to understand what I'm supposed to comply with :)
20:24:46  <Eddi|zuHause> the newgrf specs
20:24:53  <andythenorth> it seems that I (anyone) can code a grf and have some things broken
20:25:05  <andythenorth> but other things must be preserved because they are used (possibly used) by grfs
20:25:05  <frosch123> planetmaker: 1.8 was a stable release. it was followed by 1.8.1 alpha which finally lead into 1.9. that one was followed by 1.9.1 alpha which resulted in 2.0. that was followed by 2.0.1 alphas resulting in 2.5. which is for some reason followed by 2.6 alphas
20:25:49  <Eddi|zuHause> "resulting in 2.5" is quite an open end :p
20:26:07  <frosch123> [22:20] <Eddi|zuHause> almost no features are in any stable release of TTDPatch <- interestingly almost no features are in the beta from today's pov
20:26:12  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: only correct grfs are guaranteed to be kept compatible
20:26:25  <andythenorth> but how to be correct?
20:26:26  <planetmaker> pov?
20:26:31  <Hirundo> point of view
20:26:57  <planetmaker> that didn't make sense to me in that context, Hirundo ;-)
20:27:06  <planetmaker> but possibly it does
20:27:08  <planetmaker> :-)
20:27:23  <frosch123> [22:25] <Eddi|zuHause> "resulting in 2.5" is quite an open end :p <- i just added a "{{ottdp|0.6|2.5/2.6|ttdprev=r846, will be in yet unreleaed 2.5 beta 10}}"
20:27:41  <planetmaker> lol
20:27:58  <frosch123> oh there is a typo
20:28:22  <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's a matter of judgement. Slippery slope arguments on oiled ground are ahead in such terrain
20:28:45  <andythenorth> hey ho
20:28:45  <planetmaker> the guide is to cause the minimum amount of breakage usually
20:28:53  <Hirundo> I'm still wondering, how much TTDP support is worth the effort in NML
20:28:56  <andythenorth> it's only pixels :P
20:29:11  <planetmaker> while keeping sanity alive, or at least on life support.
20:29:19  <frosch123> Hirundo: you will never be able to support 2.5
20:29:39  <planetmaker> the variable thing you mentioned earlier?
20:29:52  <Hirundo> frosch123: no, but supporting a nightly would be nice
20:30:13  <Hirundo> currently, OpenTTD support is limited to nightlies only in some cases
20:30:20  <Rubidium> Hirundo: about 2 lines of nfo? if (ttdp) warning("heh, this likely does not work at all. Have fun trying.")
20:30:29  <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VarAction2Advanced#operator <- planetmaker: seeing 0.6 next to 2.6 is just weird :p
20:31:24  <Hirundo> Currently, I guess most stuf works in TTDP as long as you stay away from advanced sprite layouts
20:31:37  <Rubidium> or properties not supported by ttdp
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20:32:07  <Rubidium> although... if we add new properties and you use them, the NewGRF won't load in 'older' versions of OpenTTD
20:32:32  <Rubidium> unless you add a bit of code to skip those properties if the older version is used
20:33:10  <planetmaker> or features
20:34:42  <Rubidium> maybe those can be somewhat ignored by OpenTTD. Properties can't be ignored
20:35:52  <Eddi|zuHause> old ttdpatches fail quite badly on action 14s, even if skipped
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20:38:49  <Hirundo> Basically there are three programs to consider; latest OpenTTD stable, latest nightly and latest TTDPatch nightly
20:42:05  <Hirundo> Doing version checks and such for those is on the NML feature request list, but it's closer to the bottom than to the top
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20:50:37  <andythenorth> bed time
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20:57:31  <Terkhen> good night
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21:25:14  <planetmaker> good night
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21:39:21  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:19:19  <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.wtfnoway.com/
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22:59:13  <MNIM> huh, these horseys have an issue.
22:59:29  <MNIM> there's six horses in front of the carriage, but it shows as 0hp
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23:06:29  <MNIM> it also goes 1 kmh. and it takes aaaaages to go to the depot to be sacked
23:10:31  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the grf is broken
23:10:42  <Eddi|zuHause> switch off realistic acceleration
23:32:40  <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes forum censoring really is stupid...
23:33:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i just read a forum where quotes were marked as: "<Name> verf***te am <Date>:"
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23:44:12  <MNIM> meh. i've got steam busses anyway, so i'll just drop the horseys instead
23:44:41  <MNIM> also, what was it mean to say, eddi?
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