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Log for #openttd on 3rd September 2011:
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00:45:41  <JRWR> Well, I'm done with the basic setup, just setup a dedicated server for all the US players
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00:49:57  <Eddi|zuHause> all 5 of them?
00:50:28  <JRWR> :
00:50:49  <JRWR> anyway, the ubuntu version is alot never then the windows version... gotta downgrade
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01:09:36  <pikka> ahem
01:09:43  <pikka> gentlemen
01:10:01  <Pinkbeast> Hm?
01:10:50  <pikka> I see the briefcase is safe
01:14:15  <JRWR> Anything I should know extra for dedicated servers, I've read most of the man pages
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02:26:52  <pikka> oops
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04:54:32  <pjpe> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nutracks/repository/entry/sprites/pcx/metro.png
04:54:35  <pjpe> does anyone know what uh
04:54:42  <pjpe> third row from the top
04:54:51  <pjpe> (row with the rail intersection)
04:54:58  <pjpe> the 5 sprites after the first one are for?
04:55:23  <pjpe> oh wait they're probably junction underlay
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05:05:56  <pjpe> yes
05:05:58  <pjpe> yes they are
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07:16:51  <Terkhen> good morning
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07:20:06  <planetmaker> moin
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07:28:33  <csaba> I have started a game with an AI that always crashes. Is there a way I can set the already saved game use some other AI?
07:34:48  <Terkhen> yes, you can stop that AI and start a new one
07:34:54  <Alberth> can you change the settings from within the game from the options?
07:35:32  <Alberth> I don't know how good AIs are at taking over stuff built previously though
07:35:37  <csaba> ok figured it out... stop_ai 3 and then start_ai
07:36:16  <csaba> another question, I'm using an AI that is supposed to build a national highway grid, but it has ran out of money and bankrupted
07:36:27  <csaba> can I somehow give it a lot of money?
07:36:47  <pjpe> i have an nml file that is making new tracks, i have a parameter that i want to use to control whether a track replaces monorail or adds the track as a new type
07:36:51  <pjpe> anyone have an idea how?
07:37:00  <pjpe> i tried using a switch to determine the track label
07:37:02  <pjpe> but that doesn't compile
07:37:04  <planetmaker> csaba: cheat yourself to the company and then use the money cheat
07:37:12  <planetmaker> then cheat back to your company
07:38:22  <planetmaker> pjpe: conditionally include one or the other item delcaration
07:39:29  <planetmaker> if (param == blah) { item(FEAT_RAILTYPES, name) { property { label: choice1; }}} else { .. }
07:43:06  <pjpe> that did indeed work
07:43:16  <pjpe> nml is so much simpler than fuckin
07:43:19  <pjpe> nfo files
07:43:20  <pjpe> good god
07:43:26  <Terkhen> yes :P
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07:44:39  <pjpe> still feels weird in places though
07:44:46  <pjpe> like you can't encapsulate large blocks in if statements
07:44:55  <pjpe> wait
07:44:58  <pjpe> what am i saying
07:44:59  <pjpe> i just did
07:45:02  <pjpe> what was my point
07:45:03  <pjpe> i don't know
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07:51:48  <pjpe> is there any way to make a rail type uh
07:51:51  <pjpe> let trains of a certain railtype
07:51:55  <pjpe> work on another rail
07:51:58  <pjpe> but not be built by a depot of that type
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07:58:39  <andythenorth> bon
07:58:40  <andythenorth> jour
07:59:06  <Alberth> mo
07:59:07  <Alberth> in
07:59:17  <JVassie> sal
07:59:18  <JVassie> ut
07:59:26  <Terkhen> hi
08:04:58  <planetmaker> ta
08:04:58  <planetmaker> ch
08:06:15  <planetmaker> pjpe: you mean like steam engines can be built in an electrical depot?
08:06:34  <planetmaker> Obviously that works. Engines have to have power on that railtype
08:06:41  <planetmaker> then they can be built there
08:06:54  <pjpe> i mean have a train that is powered on
08:07:03  <pjpe> i made a set that makes a metrotrack
08:07:10  <Terkhen> I think he means that trains can move through the track but not be built on depots of that track type
08:07:18  <pjpe> and i set mono trains to also be powered and work on metro tracks
08:07:28  <pjpe> but i don't want to be able to build metro trains in a monorail depot
08:07:36  <pjpe> only be able to build them in a metro track one
08:08:20  <planetmaker> hm, I think that doesn't work
08:08:30  <Terkhen> I think that it would make sense to not fill the build vehicle list of a given track type just because some trains can move through that type
08:08:48  <planetmaker> move through != powered
08:09:01  <planetmaker> if they have power imho it makes sense to have the option to build them there
08:09:36  <planetmaker> there are two properties: compatible and powered
08:09:50  <planetmaker> compatible is not build, but can move through (though not on their own power)
08:10:27  <Terkhen> hmm...
08:10:35  <pjpe> yeah that's the problem
08:10:36  <Terkhen> so a train with engines that are only compatible will stop?
08:10:57  <pjpe> i want to be able to also have the original monorail trains in at the same time as metro trains
08:11:11  <pjpe> but if you do that right now then you can build metro rail in monorail
08:11:14  <pjpe> and it feels weird
08:11:25  <pjpe> even though they are the same track with a different look and speed limit
08:19:54  <planetmaker> Terkhen: yes, compatible will stop.
08:20:12  <planetmaker> An electric engine can move on unelectrified tracks - when pulled by a diesel or steam engine
08:20:56  <Terkhen> I see :)
08:21:03  <planetmaker> thus double-powering some trains might make sense, if electric tracks are €€€€€€€
08:21:28  <pjpe> i don't think canada even has electric rails
08:21:29  <pjpe> that's messed up
08:27:35  * andythenorth ponders
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08:46:15  <csaba> could someone please help me solve this problem: http://i.imgur.com/22gCU.png  I have a station where trains may come in from both directions. The incoming track has a path signal. On the outgoing track is a depot to serve. The problem is, the incoming train reserves 2 tracks when entering the station, so no other trains may enter at the same time.
08:46:36  <csaba> How to fix this problem?
08:47:13  <csaba> I thought maybe the depot would work as a semaphore but it didn't help at all
08:47:49  <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals#Basic_two-way_station    <-- woudl that help?
08:48:25  <Pinkbeast> Also, turn off "allow trains to make 90 degree turns"?
08:48:42  <pjpe> yes that
08:48:49  <pjpe> and make sure trains can turn around there
08:48:51  <Pinkbeast> I would add a signal facing the platform before each crossover.
08:49:13  <csaba> hmm thanks for the help
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09:11:47  <Tatsh> just want to say thanks to whoever wrote the instructions for the cross copmpiler targetting OS X
09:12:06  <Tatsh> i patched odcctools to build with current version of GCC and I tested it with Lion SDK: https://github.com/tatsh/xchain
09:12:35  <Tatsh> can't build arm, but i could build i686-apple-darwin11 and x86_64-apple-darwin11 without too much trouble (not trustworthy enough for a script yet though)
09:16:35  <planetmaker> hm, that's interesting. Do you have the diffs?
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09:16:52  <krinn> hi
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09:18:07  <Terkhen> hi krinn
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09:18:41  <Tatsh> planetmaker, yea but the thing was my text editor messed up things which is why i just made a project
09:18:48  <Tatsh> i can make the diffs still
09:19:35  <Terkhen> as long as the project files are not added to the cvs, the diffs should be clean
09:19:57  * planetmaker clones the git repo
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09:22:28  <krinn> Is there a special thing about articulated vehicle ? because i can check if a vehicle is articulated or not, and i always throw them away without really knowing why :)
09:23:42  <planetmaker> articulated vehicles can only use drive-through road stops
09:23:59  <planetmaker> (if road vehicles)
09:24:24  <krinn> wow, that's a restriction
09:24:28  <krinn> thx planetmaker
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09:28:30  <planetmaker> Tatsh: you still use gcc 4.0 for that? (or so some hints suggest?)
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09:29:29  <Tatsh> no, it's just that's what p5490 is
09:30:16  <Tatsh> it works; unlike toolwhip http://code.google.com/p/toolwhip/ which has a memory overflow and it can't build gcc
09:32:05  <Tatsh> the main issue with odcctools is apple's coding; gcc 4.5 wants typename for instantiation of classes that come from templates
09:32:42  <Tatsh> and i'm not sure how they got anything to compile in ld64 when a class definition is not even present above it's mentioning in a struct; not even a forward declaration (which would never suffice)
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09:42:33  <Tatsh> oh yea blocks; there are a few headers that have block functions and GCC has no support for them; they are not wrapped in #ifdef __BLOCKS__ either; so you can just do so manually on your header files
09:42:51  <Tatsh> if you include <Foundation/Foundation.h> as it is from Lion, you will get a compile error
09:45:39  <planetmaker> they might compile with clang
09:45:55  <planetmaker> (wild guess)
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09:53:57  <planetmaker> Tatsh: does your build chain also build iOS binaries, or "just" 10.5 ... 10.7?
09:55:51  <Tatsh> no iOS yet; i plan to do that but with clang or llvm-gcc like the real toolchain
09:56:22  <Tatsh> i don't think compiling C++ is possible with the 10.7sdk so maybe i make mention of that
09:56:49  <Tatsh> according to forum posts, the errors i'm getting have solely to do with using gcc 4.0.x instead of 4.2
09:58:05  <planetmaker> errors or warnings?
09:59:20  <Tatsh> errors
09:59:43  <Tatsh> on inclusion of <iostream>, /home/tatsh/usr/x86_64-apple-darwin11/usr/include/c++/4.2.1/ext/atomicity.h:51: error: '__sync_fetch_and_add' was not declared in this scope
10:00:07  <Tatsh> and i have to do another weird -I to make it find the header
10:02:43  <Tatsh> this is apparently all fixed in 4.2 so i hoep to get that going real soon
10:02:56  <Tatsh> mingw had a similar issue until they were synced with 4.2
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10:31:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r22877 /trunk/src/sound/win32_s.cpp: -Fix (r22874): Fix broken compilation on MinGW.
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10:39:43  <andythenorth> did I mention 3 tile locks are silly?
10:39:48  * andythenorth goes back to drawing
10:41:46  <Terkhen> maybe once or twice :P
10:44:31  <krinn> does that error speak to someone? Use only multiple unit wagons
10:46:23  <planetmaker> krinn: use the correct wagon
10:46:41  <krinn> i know that :)
10:46:59  <planetmaker> well. That's what the message tells you. It even tells you which are corrrect
10:47:29  <krinn> you mean i have wagons named "multiple"
10:48:32  <krinn> oh indeed i have it :D
10:52:45  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22878 /trunk/src/spriteloader/png.cpp: -Fix (r22873-ish): Check range before casting to uint16.
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11:21:57  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r22879 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Miscalculation of train curve speed limits. (monoid)
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11:28:26  <sivik> wow, this is still a good channel
11:28:50  <sivik> Ok, all these darn different kinds of signals are confusing me.  I read over the documentation like 3 times
11:29:42  <krinn> use PBS it do wonder in all cases
11:29:55  <sivik> PBS like the tv station?
11:30:12  <krinn> no like Poor Boys Sorry
11:30:22  <sivik> I don't understand what you mean by that.
11:30:25  <krinn> or Path Base Signal
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11:30:55  <sivik> krinn, can I describe what i'm having issues with?
11:31:20  <krinn> some stuck trains i suppose :)
11:31:29  <sivik> one station, two trains from different directions, let say it points up and down and one enters from top and one from bottom
11:31:33  <sivik> they either crash or never get there.
11:31:42  <sivik> I cannot figure out which signal to use to make it work
11:31:55  <krinn> PBS as i said
11:32:06  <sivik> which signal is that in the game?
11:32:49  <krinn> 5th in the list
11:33:04  <sivik> top or bottom of the window?
11:33:20  <krinn> same, they are just for the look
11:33:26  <sivik> pl/
11:33:49  <krinn> top and bottom ones have same function, just different graphics
11:33:54  <sivik> thats what I though.
11:33:59  <sivik> I tried the 5th and and my trains get lost
11:34:04  <sivik> and keep going in circles
11:34:26  <krinn> because you need a rail next to the station so train can turn around
11:34:47  <krinn> made it a two station, or build a rail that connect each entry/exit to each other
11:35:00  <krinn> but it would be just better to add the two platforms
11:35:26  <krinn> if you want them to work with only 1 platform, use the same entry for both trains
11:35:32  <sivik> alright.
11:35:34  <sivik> thx
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12:17:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22880 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.h: -Cleanup: SIZE_MAX is now defined in stdafx.h
12:19:57  <appe> :o
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12:45:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22881 /trunk/src/ (core/alloc_func.hpp pathfinder/npf/queue.cpp stdafx.h): -Fix (r22875): GCC warnings on 64bit systems.
12:48:39  <frosch123> not that i am interested in a new ottd logo... but why does every suggestion in that thread build a logo with tracks and stuff in game?
12:50:34  <planetmaker> I wonder that, too. It doesn't make for a good logo really...
12:51:03  <frosch123> esp. not when icon-sized :p
12:51:29  <__ln__> but the current one isn't good either
12:52:04  <frosch123> orudge: btw. what happened to tt-wiki / newgrf-specs wiki logos?
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12:52:52  <frosch123> afaik i had the best (or only? :p) suggestion :
12:52:53  <krinn> i like the current one, it show more what the main game was
12:53:00  <krinn> a tycoon family
12:53:18  <frosch123> yup, tt-forums uses a similiar logo
12:53:23  <frosch123> so it is corporate design
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12:57:09  <andythenorth> the logo is fine
12:57:16  <andythenorth> discussing it wastes characters :P
12:57:23  <andythenorth> characters consume coal
12:57:45  <Hirundo> in the end, it makes kittens die?
12:58:49  <andythenorth> maybe
12:58:56  <andythenorth> my icon looks like this.  I like it: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/openttd_icon.png
12:59:09  <orudge> frosch123: at the moment, nothing, I guess
12:59:51  <__ln__> andythenorth: would you wear a t-shirt with the current logo?
13:00:11  <orudge> you mean like www.cafepress.com/openttd ?
13:00:18  * orudge has never actually ordered from there, to be fair, despite setting it up
13:00:22  <orudge> not sure if anybody has
13:00:22  <orudge> hmm
13:00:26  <frosch123> i considered buying one of the caps for the r20k party
13:00:30  <frosch123> but i was too late
13:00:44  <frosch123> but yes, the logo looks weird if it is too big
13:00:44  <__ln__> orudge: yes, like that
13:00:47  <frosch123> it is more a small logo
13:01:03  <frosch123> too few details for something to print on a tshirt
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13:01:51  <__ln__> i wouldn't wear a dollar sign, it gives the wrong impression to the minority of world population that has never heard about openttd.
13:02:19  <orudge> huh, apparently I was sent a US cheque for  in January
13:02:29  <orudge> to the address that I no longer live in
13:02:42  <orudge> well that's handy
13:02:43  <frosch123> a cheque for ? wow
13:02:49  <orudge> yeah
13:02:54  <frosch123> how much does it cost to exchange it?
13:02:56  <orudge> that apparently is the only payment I've ever (not) received from CafePress
13:02:59  <orudge> well, I have a US bank account
13:03:02  <orudge> I just don't live there any more
13:03:11  <orudge> but, well,  is currently about 61p
13:04:04  <orudge> I'll ask Andrew if any mail arrived for me when I see him later this month, but he'll probably have thrown it out if anything did turn up. And it'd cost more to get to the bank on the bus than the cheque is worth :p
13:04:18  <orudge> hmm
13:04:29  <orudge> they now support PayPal, too, how useful
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13:13:14  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the sense of mailing a cheque when the postage fee exceeds its value?
13:13:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i have ever seen anyone using a cheque...
13:14:53  <michi_cc> Move to the USA, then you can try to find someone using a wire transfer... :p
13:17:36  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: of course it makes sense when the sender owes money to the recipient.
13:21:09  <csaba> I've seen some savegames where industry produces a lot of resources, for example a forrest produces 1500 woods. How was that achieved, I never ever had more than 300
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13:22:56  <planetmaker> csaba: provide good service over decades
13:23:03  <planetmaker> rating > 66% helps
13:23:23  <krinn> csaba, some newgrf can do that i suppose
13:23:40  <krinn> desert sawmill if you feed it with trees
13:23:42  <planetmaker> krinn: default industries can do that
13:25:08  <krinn> i think if it was default setting he might have notice how the industry is well served
13:25:17  <frosch123> csaba: default industries with non-smooth economy can never pass 1100 wood or so
13:26:00  <frosch123> so it uses smooth economy, and either lots of time with high speed (maglev) cargo trains
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13:26:17  <frosch123> or if there are many of such industries they were build in scenario editor, or the ingame cheat was used
13:27:33  <frosch123> if you play without wagon speed limits and transport cargo at > 200km/h station rating will never drop below 95% or so, and industries are likely to increase production
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13:34:53  <csaba> well I'm currently in 1940 so the max speed a train can do is around 95km/h
13:35:31  <krinn> if you saw the industry doing that in 1940, it was a cheat for sure
13:35:50  <csaba> no it was after 2000 I think
13:36:20  <planetmaker> krinn: why?
13:36:30  <planetmaker> also in 1940 you can have played for several decades :-)
13:36:42  <csaba> I started in 1918
13:37:01  <krinn> and earn enought money to build that much network that should be need to let the industry produce that much ?
13:37:40  <csaba> currently I transport everywhere at around 70-85% is the goods produced... it can't possible go higher, I have always an extra train waiting in each station to continue picking up the goods as soon as the other one starts going out
13:38:13  <csaba> is it even possible to transport 100% of the goods?
13:38:21  <krinn> you won't get more because of speed, even having zillions trains queuing there
13:38:27  <csaba> I see
13:38:32  <csaba> so it should improve later on
13:38:48  <csaba> I usually always quit in the 80'es when there's nothing left to build
13:38:50  <krinn> that's the benefits of newer engines
13:39:43  <krinn> and it's logic, just compare a 10 jinty serviced station vs a 2 tgv one :p
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14:23:37  <Mellanvarld> Dedicated server seems to be misbehaving on ARM, fails to properly delete tracks.
14:28:15  <planetmaker> tracks?
14:28:51  <planetmaker> anycase, unless debian, I doubt we have an official version which runs on ARM
14:30:50  <Mellanvarld> debian squeeze, ottd compiled from source
14:31:32  <planetmaker> ok. And how does the problem look like in more detail?
14:31:47  <planetmaker> or is the server up and running?
14:31:53  <planetmaker> and what version?
14:31:58  <planetmaker> modified?
14:32:12  <Mellanvarld> 1.1.2 unmodified
14:32:44  <planetmaker> IP?
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14:35:11  <Mellanvarld> planetmaker: 81.235.235.122
14:36:58  <planetmaker> seems offline. Or non-default port?
14:37:11  <Terkhen> planetmaker: I managed to connect fine
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14:37:50  <Terkhen> I can remove and place tracks normally
14:38:02  <Terkhen> the game runs a bit laggy, though
14:41:31  <planetmaker> seems also normal to me
14:42:37  <planetmaker> so... how does your problem show, Mellanvarld?
14:42:52  <planetmaker> hm... desync?
14:43:28  <Mellanvarld> and when resyncing the removed tracks are back again...
14:43:56  <Terkhen> hmm...
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14:44:09  <Terkhen> let's try it again
14:44:15  <planetmaker> indeed. My tracks are back :O
14:44:17  <Terkhen> let's be sure that it is reproducible
14:44:20  <planetmaker> is ARM big endian?
14:44:39  <Terkhen> I was thinking on an endian problem too :)
14:45:30  <Terkhen> I placed and removed lots of tracks in the small isle near Furnston
14:45:37  <Terkhen> Funston*
14:45:43  <Terkhen> can you see them?
14:46:18  <planetmaker> no tracks there. But bulldozed terrain
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14:46:45  <planetmaker> desync when I tried to build there
14:47:36  <planetmaker> err... I did not try to build _that many_ tracks there...
14:47:42  <planetmaker> seems wrong company-assignment
14:48:09  <Alberth> planetmaker: not the ARMs I have worked with a looong time ago
14:48:25  <Terkhen> this is quite strange :)
14:48:37  <planetmaker> and my other tracks are back, too
14:48:45  <planetmaker> near !here
14:48:52  <Terkhen> but even if we can't pinpoint what is happening exactly, it seems reproducible enough to start logging for desyncs :P
14:49:10  <planetmaker> yes
14:49:56  <Terkhen> a bug this big must be endian related
14:50:12  <Terkhen> or something else that prevents it from happening with normal builds
14:50:36  <planetmaker> yes
14:50:59  <planetmaker> Mellanvarld: can you paste your config.log somewhere?
14:51:53  <Mellanvarld> where is that file located?
14:52:06  <Terkhen> next to configure
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15:00:08  <Mellanvarld> http://goteborgschack.com/config.log
15:00:45  <Amis> Hello
15:01:00  <Amis> Are there any way to ban a certain type of cargo from a station?
15:01:04  <andythenorth> no
15:01:09  <Amis> *sadface*
15:01:27  <andythenorth> why would you need to?
15:01:58  <Amis> Because I forgot to refit a plane and now all the passangers are going to the airport instead of the train stations
15:02:18  <Amis> passengers*
15:02:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that'll time out after a while
15:03:01  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: don't you need to rebuild the airport?
15:03:27  <Terkhen> checking endianess... AUTO <--- same here
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15:04:54  <planetmaker> well... I have checking endianess... PREPROCESSOR - but that makes seemingly no difference
15:05:14  <planetmaker> as I could in principle build both when building a fat binary
15:05:47  <planetmaker> Mellanvarld: do you know your endianess?
15:08:24  <planetmaker> wth... ARM is / can be bi-endian?
15:08:25  <Amis> So now the passenger rate decreased to 0%... but all of a sudden now it's increasing again, what... the...
15:08:33  <Mellanvarld> uname -a "#5 Tue Sep 7 16:06:15 CEST 2010 armv5tel GNU/Linux"
15:08:52  <TinoDidriksen> Yes, some ARM can switch.
15:09:04  <Amis> Is this some kind of bug or... ?
15:09:18  <Terkhen> or you picked passengers again
15:09:32  <Amis> Terkhen, I'm sure I did not
15:09:42  <Amis> Now it went up to 13% and stuck there
15:10:30  <Amis> I remember something similiar happened to me a while ago, I could not understand why it's not going under a certain percentage
15:12:24  <Alberth> afaik you need to rebuild the station (airport in your case) to really make it stop accepting passengers (rather than just getting a low rating)
15:13:20  <Amis> This is silly
15:13:40  <Amis> Now it's really stuck on 16% and the number of passengers are jumping around 400
15:13:44  <appe> when clicking the vehicle depot and the little bus button, isnt that supposed to show all the busses created in the depot? or is it just buses with directions to the depot? :)
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15:13:48  <Amis> Not decreasing or increasing at all
15:13:54  <fjb> Moin
15:14:37  <krinn> Amis, you've build a statue no?
15:14:45  <Amis> krinn, no
15:15:04  <appe> what does the statue do?
15:15:16  <krinn> dunno then, like Eddi|zuHause said destroy & rebuild the airport
15:15:31  <krinn> or if you can, just rebuild it shared with the rail station
15:15:57  <Amis> :/
15:16:02  <krinn> appe http://wiki.openttd.org/Local_authority#Build_statue_of_company_owner
15:16:10  <planetmaker> Mellanvarld: that unfortunately doesn't tell me. But there's an endian-check programme compiled in objs/...
15:16:20  <planetmaker> next to all the .o files
15:16:41  <planetmaker> can you run that?
15:17:13  <Amis> What I don't really get is after it drops to 0% why does it start increasing? It's something with the algorithm checking the number of passengers waiting
15:17:41  <michi_cc> planetmaker: armv5tel should be little endian
15:17:57  <planetmaker> ok :-)
15:18:18  <planetmaker> *should*. Thus the output of what was compiled or though might be more interesting
15:19:20  <Mellanvarld> #ifndef ENDIAN_H
15:19:20  <Mellanvarld> #define ENDIAN_H
15:19:20  <Mellanvarld> #define TTD_ENDIAN TTD_LITTLE_ENDIAN
15:19:20  <Mellanvarld> #endif
15:19:20  <Amis> A crash in the area of the local goverment ruins my ratings right?
15:19:23  <appe> ah, neat.
15:20:14  <planetmaker> thanks, Mellanvarld. Which kinda doesn't make the issue easier, sadly
15:20:35  <krinn> python -c "import sys;sys.exit(0 if sys.byteorder=='big' else 1)"
15:20:46  <krinn> then echo $? -> 1 little, 0 big
15:21:10  <planetmaker> we already have the answer which this openttd build uses, krinn ;-)
15:21:27  * krinn is slow
15:21:30  <Alberth> and then hope you cannot set that per application :)
15:21:52  <krinn> Amis, yes
15:22:02  <planetmaker> Mellanvarld: would you care to enable desync debugging?
15:22:36  <Mellanvarld> planetmaker: how is that done?
15:23:22  <Terkhen> http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTDDevBlackBook/Network/Desync_debugging
15:23:57  <Eddi|zuHause> Amis: yes
15:25:00  <planetmaker> beware, that produces LOTs of savegames
15:38:09  <__ln__> planetmaker: afaik ARM can be operated either big or little endian, but Linux running on arm is mostly or always little.
15:40:28  <Eddi|zuHause> be aware that ARM is not actually a processor, but the synthesis-specs of a processor, so the companies making the chips can make modifications to it (like having processor and chipset in one single chip)
15:41:53  <Eddi|zuHause> (in software-terms: they sell the source code to the library, not the compiled library)
15:42:37  <fjb> The ability to have both endians is part of the design, but it defaults to little endian.
15:43:09  <Eddi|zuHause> on hardware-level, there is very little difference between both
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15:43:46  <fjb> The little differences are enough to have a lot of fun.
15:44:23  <Eddi|zuHause> the real fun begins at the software level :)
15:44:58  <fjb> What is software without hardware?
15:45:13  <krinn> fjb an emulator ? :)
15:45:14  <Eddi|zuHause> an emulator :)
15:45:24  * krinn is faster !!!