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00:00:03 <Elukka> can you link your post again? i'm not sure i can be of much help since i'm as new to this as you but i'd like to see it :D 00:00:32 <Swissfan91> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=56570 00:01:29 <Elukka> might want to try to get more detail in 00:01:34 <Elukka> which is admittedly hard with so few pixels 00:02:16 <Swissfan91> yeah, i was struggling with detail, but I wanted the basic shape first. 00:02:45 <Swissfan91> if you look at the church I was using for inspiration, there isnt that much detail on the spire 00:03:03 <Elukka> planetmaker: i see you work on CETS too 00:03:18 <Elukka> i really hope the set doesn't lose steam (hehe) since it sounds like it'd be pretty amazing 00:03:24 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-adcee455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:46 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-adcee455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 00:03:52 <planetmaker> are you sure your church tower roof is equally sloped to both sides? 00:04:13 <Swissfan91> i hope so. ): 00:04:20 <Swissfan91> but it could well not bed 00:04:22 <Swissfan91> be* 00:04:32 <Elukka> oh there's an entire tracking table for all vehicles :O 00:04:33 <planetmaker> the top pixel is not centred above the wall iirc 00:05:16 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:05:17 <planetmaker> or to me it feels like 1px(?) off 00:05:28 <Swissfan91> ah, it appears so. I really struggled with the slope. I hoped it wouldn't be too noticeable 00:05:43 <planetmaker> I don't say it's easy. I know it's not 00:07:27 <Swissfan91> I shall try and rectify that at some point 00:09:29 <planetmaker> btw: if you want to make a project where people can contribute and work on: then you must not use anything which forbids modifications in the license 00:09:45 <planetmaker> everything where modification is forbidden can be considered lost work 00:10:15 <Swissfan91> ah, I see. So my license atm means only I can do anything with them publicly? 00:10:40 <planetmaker> ... 00:10:56 <planetmaker> so... you just picked something without knowing what? 00:11:10 <planetmaker> Can you sign a piece of paper for me? I'll fill in terms later :-) 00:11:13 <pjpe> planemaker do you do any yapf 00:11:35 <Swissfan91> no, I thought that license was that people had to ask my permission before using any sprites I made. 00:11:46 <planetmaker> that's what it means 00:11:57 <planetmaker> which is imho a bullshit license as it's as good as no license 00:12:12 <planetmaker> and as such: lost work 00:12:23 <planetmaker> died upon birth as no-one can build or improve on it 00:12:58 <planetmaker> http://blog.openttdcoop.org/2011/07/16/copyright-and-licenses-permission-to-what-actually/ 00:13:07 <Swissfan91> I see what you're saying. But if I have no license, somebody could take my sprite, and just open a new set and say it is theirs? 00:13:21 <planetmaker> no 00:14:18 <planetmaker> please read esp. the two case studies 00:14:42 <planetmaker> there are enough negative case studies, though ;-) 00:15:21 <Swissfan91> will do 00:16:03 <planetmaker> and ask yourself the question: why do you want to ensure that everyone has to explicitly ask you before they may use your sprites in their own work (they'll always have to credit you with proper license) 00:16:14 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 00:16:35 <planetmaker> what should happen to your work should you be hit by a car? 00:16:59 <planetmaker> (not that I wish that - on the contrary) 00:17:07 <planetmaker> pjpe: no 00:17:14 <pjpe> who does 00:17:23 <planetmaker> you? 00:17:26 <pjpe> O_O 00:17:28 <pjpe> news to me 00:17:53 <Swissfan91> Ah, I think I understand. 00:17:54 <planetmaker> usually I have openttd do the pathfinding for me, though 00:18:09 <Swissfan91> "but in essence it means, and only that is important for our purpose: ALL work is copyrighted." 00:18:13 <Swissfan91> that bit, I didn't know. 00:19:03 <pjpe> that michi kid 00:19:05 <pjpe> that's the one 00:19:36 <pjpe> i ask because i saw this article http://harablog.wordpress.com/2011/09/07/jump-point-search/ 00:19:43 <pjpe> and it seems like it would help with ship pathfinding 00:19:45 <pjpe> and maybe road vehicles 00:22:32 <planetmaker> pjpe: we have no developer who has exclusive domains... 00:22:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: you might want to learn how to highlight people by spelling their name properly. 00:22:55 <planetmaker> if you have suggestions, it's best to not seek for the "correct" one, but to just bring them forward 00:22:57 <Elukka> ...that would be useful, yes 00:23:00 <Elukka> :) 00:23:23 <planetmaker> those who are interested will then see / read it 00:25:22 <planetmaker> I'm just not sure whether this should go into the suggestions or development forum 00:28:13 <Swissfan91> @planetmaker - to conclude: not mentioning a license gives me adequate protection? 00:28:40 <planetmaker> yes. But what do you need to protect? 00:28:47 <planetmaker> your vanity? 00:28:54 <planetmaker> isn't attribution enough for that? 00:29:41 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.152.164.59] has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:30:53 <Swissfan91> of course attribution is enough. Sorry, I am picking the wrong words. My fear was people stealing it without attribution. So protection against that. :) 00:31:29 <planetmaker> then CC-BY is enough 00:31:43 <planetmaker> which means "do what you like with it. But give credits" 00:32:07 <planetmaker> which is also the most community-friendly 00:32:11 <pjpe> people can always steal it 00:32:19 <pjpe> just whether they ethically should or not 00:32:31 <pjpe> but will people really check 00:32:59 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-185-80.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:34:04 <planetmaker> that is also not the point of the license. As that cannot be avoided anyway 00:34:20 <Swissfan91> Indeed. Thanks for your help PM :) 00:34:21 <planetmaker> But the license allows the good guys to build on it - and give credits 00:37:24 <Swissfan91> which is what we're all here for! 00:37:48 <pjpe> not me 00:37:54 <pjpe> i'm going to steal it as soon as you work on it 00:37:56 <pjpe> and say it's mine 00:39:00 <planetmaker> you've seen the flame wars about those? 00:39:31 <pjpe> which reminds me 00:39:39 <pjpe> i wonder if that new us set guy is still working 00:39:54 <pjpe> i want the damn justice league hq in my games 00:40:27 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause :D any comments on the sprite? 00:47:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: haven't looked at it too closely. 00:47:36 <Swissfan91> @planetmaker, if I PM you a sprite, could you take a quick look at something? 00:48:11 <Elukka> what's the procedure for getting a sprite vetted and accepted into CETS? 00:48:37 <planetmaker> Elukka: there's no formal nor established procedure. 00:48:41 <planetmaker> No sprites are coded yet. 00:48:52 <planetmaker> Best open a ticket for that vehicle and attach your sprites 00:49:20 <planetmaker> Swissfan91: dunno? What about forums? 00:49:37 <Swissfan91> I meant a PM on the forums :) 00:49:53 <Elukka> alright 00:50:00 <Elukka> i suppose i would need some sort of membership to add a ticket? 00:50:25 <planetmaker> only thing required is registration at the devzone 00:52:10 <Elukka> oh 00:52:28 <planetmaker> Swissfan91: give it a try ;-) 00:52:37 <planetmaker> asking to ask sucks and sucks time pointlessly 00:52:51 <Swissfan91> done 00:52:54 <Elukka> is the vehicle list a comprehensive one? 00:53:16 <planetmaker> Elukka: it's most likely not 100% complete 00:54:10 <Elukka> i'm not sure the coach i drew is on there but i thought it a reasonably safe bet that a very prominent german coach would be in the set 00:54:22 <planetmaker> Swissfan91: you just have to count pixels... there's no magic 00:54:26 <Elukka> anyhow, i suppose i should make a ticket under features 00:54:29 <planetmaker> both conditions cannot be true concurrently with that 00:54:32 <Elukka> next time i'll also pick a vehicle from the list 00:54:54 <planetmaker> finding the centre of something is... not that difficult. There's no perspective 00:55:06 <Swissfan91> I counted the roof out ok, but when you draw a line down from the top.. it doesnt cross the centre of the base 00:55:07 <planetmaker> no scale change rather 00:55:27 <planetmaker> see. then it's off 00:56:09 <Elukka> hey is there something particular i need to do with the png file (something about palettes) to make it okay for ottd? 00:57:07 <planetmaker> I'd say 4px further left 00:57:52 <planetmaker> balkony might fit 00:58:42 <Swissfan91> ok, here's my problem. I find the centre of the base, and draw a line all the way up. It means the roof point needs moving left - correct? 00:59:51 *** DarkSide [~name@dslb-088-076-046-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: get satisfied! ⢠:: www.unitedservers.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::] 01:00:31 <Swissfan91> I would send you a picture explaining, but its forums downtime.. time. 01:01:01 <planetmaker> rather it's bed time :-) 01:01:04 <planetmaker> good night 01:01:11 <Swissfan91> goodnight. 01:01:12 <Swissfan91> thanks! 01:03:03 <Elukka> night 01:05:58 <Swissfan91> I'm off too Elukka. Have a good time spriting! 01:06:10 <Elukka> o/ 01:06:14 <Elukka> i'm gonna see sprites when i go to bed 01:06:28 <Swissfan91> same! 01:08:37 *** Swissfan91 [Swissfan91@5e0ad068.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 01:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: the wagons are not representative yet 01:09:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just some made up ones to have a basis for development 01:09:59 <Elukka> alright 01:10:34 <Elukka> i'll stick to basic wagons that'll be needed anyway rather than drawing any special ones 01:11:00 <Eddi|zuHause> if in doubt, we always can put it into the "extended" set, so nothing is wasted :) 01:11:08 <Elukka> heh 01:43:40 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 02:20:28 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:39f6:401b:b694:b2d9] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:34:55 *** Tatsh [~Tatsh@99-178-255-238.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has left #openttd [Lesbians] 03:29:17 <Hinrik> which article on the wiki talks about strategies to maximize stations' service rating an such? 03:39:34 <Elukka> dunno, but in a nutshell the most important parts are that you always have a vehicle loading at the station and that your vehicles are as fast as possible 03:39:39 <Elukka> the former being the most critical 03:40:13 <Elukka> so in essence if you have a coal mine you don't want one long train you want two shorter ones 03:44:46 <Hinrik> ok 03:45:03 <Hinrik> btw, I think I found a bug 03:45:26 <Hinrik> if you place a station, and then place the exact same station over the previous one, you get charged for it 03:45:57 <Hinrik> so you can spend money on nothing 03:46:18 <Hinrik> this is in 1.1.2 03:46:39 <Hinrik> I complied trunk but I couldn't get it to run... 03:49:22 <Hinrik> compiled, even 03:54:47 <Pinkbeast> You always get charged when replacing station tiles. 03:55:08 <Pinkbeast> ... arguably you should not be when it's the same tile 04:25:49 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 04:34:00 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38:03 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has joined #openttd 04:38:32 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-190.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B737F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:24 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B734D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:07:40 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-190.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:21:27 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 05:50:35 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 05:52:39 <Elukka> chris sawyer has amazingly rigid opinions about his games... 05:53:00 <pjpe> he's still alive? 05:53:02 <pjpe> somewhere? 05:53:24 <Elukka> rollercoaster tycoon did not have a sandbox mode because it didn't fit his vision of the game, doesn't matter that people wanted it and it wouldn't have hurt the scenarios at all 05:53:56 <Elukka> "unofficial patches", referring to ttdpatch and by extension i suppose to ottd, "really annoy him" because dammit his games are made right 05:54:42 <Elukka> i'd be grateful if some people took upon greatly improving some project i had finished and abandoned a decade ago... 05:57:22 <Elukka> you can see the same attitude with some big game devs these days 05:57:34 <Elukka> "it's our game and you ignoramuses can't mod it or you'd ruin our bloody precious vision" 05:58:02 <pjpe> who says that 05:59:56 <Elukka> not an actual quote :P 06:00:05 <Elukka> last time that pops to mind, relic had that attitude 06:00:16 <Elukka> which is funny because they used to be nice to modders 06:01:09 <pjpe> that doesn't sound very funny at all 06:02:53 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 06:03:01 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:04:35 <Elukka> funny in the "something smells funny" sense, not the amusing sense 06:21:20 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@0278a82f.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:23:27 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 06:50:34 <Terkhen> good morning 06:56:39 <Terkhen> ooh, time for a testing game 07:07:49 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-072-074.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 07:18:12 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 07:18:16 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 07:21:24 <dihedral> greetings 07:22:13 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 07:29:20 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:43:58 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:44:35 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 07:44:38 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 07:50:44 *** _1009 [~chatzilla@b85159.upc-b.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:50:53 <_1009> Morning :) 07:51:28 <lugo> hello 07:53:06 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:53:21 <Elukka> morning 08:02:45 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A1DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:11:10 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 08:37:08 <planetmaker> moin 08:44:44 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has joined #openttd 09:06:45 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-186-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 09:13:57 <MNIM> Chris Sawyer shouldn't be complaining. 09:14:21 <MNIM> it's projects like TTDP and OTTD that still keep the gam alive in the first place 09:14:32 <MNIM> or games like UT2004. 09:14:47 <MNIM> the only reason anybody plays it anymore is because of all the mods. 09:15:04 <MNIM> most online servers I see hardly ever play standard maps 09:15:14 <pjpe> hell i'm surprised people even play ted patch anymore 09:15:36 <MNIM> well 09:15:53 <MNIM> TTDP Does have several features that are sadly lacking in OTTD 09:16:13 <Rubidium> ... and vice versa 09:16:17 <pjpe> building over tunnel entrance and custom bridgehead? 09:16:46 <MNIM> that 09:16:53 <MNIM> and things like programmable signals 09:17:00 <pjpe> think there was a patch for custom bridgehead 09:17:04 <pjpe> there was a patch for programmable signals 09:17:09 <pjpe> doesn't seem very useful though 09:17:20 <MNIM> exactly. they're hardly trunk 09:17:34 <pjpe> well they don't really have to be 09:17:40 <pjpe> you can patch it or you can use the patchpack 09:17:42 <pjpe> they're still there 09:17:58 <planetmaker> openttdpatch :-) 09:18:19 <pjpe> i don't think anyone even works on ttdpatch anymore 09:18:33 <planetmaker> oh, there has been a commit in the last quarter ;-) 09:18:56 <pjpe> yeah several months ago 09:19:17 <planetmaker> 22 August 09:19:27 <planetmaker> and then 15 January 09:19:43 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:20:11 <MNIM> well, true, but a lot of people don't touch the patches for fear of breaking shit or not knowing what they're doing 09:20:13 <MNIM> (like me) 09:20:27 <MNIM> patching could be more user-friendly IMNSHO 09:20:55 <planetmaker> it couldn't 09:21:09 <MNIM> well, lemme rephrase that 09:21:11 <MNIM> should. 09:21:16 <planetmaker> it shouldn't ;-) 09:21:28 <planetmaker> or rather I should also have more money and reign the world 09:21:37 <planetmaker> same quality of wish ;-) 09:21:48 <MNIM> well, I get you're afraid of the "OMG-i-patched-it-and-now-it-doesn't-work" people, but still 09:22:02 <_1009> Is there any sample code where a NWidget button is removed or added on the fly? 09:23:02 <planetmaker> _1009: you need to use planes 09:23:22 <planetmaker> where you can show different window layouts as function of variable 09:23:35 <planetmaker> like the NewGame window which is different from main menu or in SE 09:24:10 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:24:20 <_1009> Hm, I'm trying to reconfigure the AI Debug Window, to add an additional button "Stop AI" when Stop AI Cheat is active. Are planes possible there too? 09:25:10 <planetmaker> they're possible in every window 09:25:17 <_1009> Okay, cheers. 09:25:19 <planetmaker> I forgot the widget name which adds them 09:25:28 <planetmaker> as said, look at the NewGame window 09:25:38 <planetmaker> which sets map size etc 09:25:39 <_1009> Thanks :) 09:29:00 *** hanf [~Klaus@cpc2-hart4-0-0-cust324.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:30:10 *** Swissfan91 [Swissfan91@5e0ad068.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 09:31:31 *** _1009 [~chatzilla@b85159.upc-b.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:49:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22904 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: add tar filename to file scanning 09:55:05 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22905 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#4753] (r22836): the name of the tar was removed from the AI filenames, so record it differently. Also removes some of the hackery to get the tar's filename 10:02:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22906 /trunk/src/script/script_scanner.cpp: -Fix (r22905): variable not properly cleared before use 10:03:13 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 10:04:37 <peter1138> i wanna take you to a 10:04:41 <peter1138> GAY BAR GAY BAR 10:07:14 <Terkhen> that's one of the first stupid internet videos that I remember :P 10:08:24 <peter1138> ? 10:08:55 <Terkhen> I know that it is a real song, but I only know it from the video :P 10:09:00 <Terkhen> http://www.rathergood.com/gaybar 10:09:05 <MNIM> hehehe 10:09:12 <MNIM> gotta love electric six, eh? 10:09:21 <MNIM> also, you missed something. 10:09:30 <MNIM> it's "YOU! I wanna take you..." 10:09:36 <peter1138> ah 10:18:38 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d086761.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:23:40 <appe> rubbish. 10:25:05 <appe> what's the fastest plane grf? 10:25:53 <valhallasw> Terkhen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2kD1YUtA5o 10:33:57 <Elukka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a4gyJsY0mc 10:34:01 <Elukka> oh electric six 10:34:07 <Elukka> one of the most bizarre music videos 10:34:53 <Elukka> i ponder, did he put lamps in his pants or is it CGI 10:38:19 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:43:50 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 10:55:58 <Eddi|zuHause> appe: fastest to compile, fastest to run, or fastest to crash? 10:56:39 <Eddi|zuHause> (no idea actually, i don't usually use planes) 10:57:06 <appe> hehe 10:57:15 <appe> fastest run, that is. 11:01:25 <Elukka> i suppose there's no way to draw partially opaque pixels? 11:01:30 <Elukka> since only magic blue is alpha 11:11:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D1B8.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:16:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C928.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:19:21 <Swissfan91> afternoon everyone 11:27:09 <Terkhen> hi Swissfan91 11:28:44 <Yexo> Elukka: it's possible if you use 32bpp sprites 11:28:57 <Yexo> you'll always need 8bpp sprites for people that don't use a 32bpp blitter though 11:29:01 <Elukka> heh 11:29:23 <Elukka> the effort of making an entire train set in 32bpp spritse seems colossal 11:29:59 <Yexo> why would it be a bigger effort than making 8bpp sprites? 11:30:07 <Elukka> more detail! 11:30:25 <Yexo> 32bpp is not "more zoom levels" 11:30:33 <Elukka> hm true 11:30:34 <Yexo> it just gives you more colors to chose from 11:30:48 <Elukka> the sprites i've seen are a lot more detailed than 8 bit sprites though 11:30:54 <Elukka> hey, in what way am i limited with colors anyway? 11:30:59 <Elukka> do i need to use a special palette? 11:31:04 <Elukka> with 8 bpp sprites 11:31:10 <Yexo> you're limited to the colors from the TTD palette 11:31:19 <Yexo> so yes, you do need to use a special palette 11:31:22 <Elukka> how do i know what those are? 11:31:38 <Yexo> there are several drawing tutorials and links to the correct palette 11:31:51 <Yexo> see http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/PalettesAndCoordinates#Palettes 11:32:38 <Elukka> i suppose i need to convert my sprite to the proper colors, then... 11:34:35 <Elukka> at least i'm assuming CETS uses the 8bit palette 11:34:54 <Yexo> yes, every grf has to use it 11:35:26 *** Nijn [~Roland@ip503d90e4.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:35:45 <Elukka> ah, i can make photoshop automatically convert it to the proper palette 11:36:07 <Yexo> if you do that, take care of action colors / company colors 11:36:51 <Elukka> i think what i'm going to do is make a palette in photoshop of the usable DOS (that's alright, right?) colors 11:36:54 <__ln__> http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2466 11:37:33 <Yexo> Elukka: they might already exist on the #openttdcoop devzone, but I'm not sure where 11:37:40 <planetmaker> Elukka: or you could take the existing photoshop palette 11:37:55 <Elukka> there's an existing photoshop palette that's the same as the ttd palette? 11:38:09 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/documents/1 11:38:18 <Elukka> oh, nice 11:39:01 <Yexo> Swissfan91: ^^ that link is also interesting for you 11:39:08 <Yexo> it documents how to convert your graphics 11:39:21 <Terkhen> if possible use the dos palette 11:39:29 <Terkhen> it has more colours and OpenTTD does not care about which one you use :) 11:39:56 <Elukka> i believe in photoshop you can simply download the palette, convert the image to indexed color and select the palette 11:40:00 <Yexo> the only reason to use the win palette would be if your sprites are for an existing project coded in nfo (not nml) and it already uses the windows palette 11:40:38 <Elukka> i presume CETS isn't 11:40:49 <Yexo> cets is coded in nml, thus doesn't care :) 11:40:55 <Yexo> hence the advise for DOS, as it has more colors 11:41:08 <Elukka> alright 11:46:24 *** mase [~mase@p5DD3A914.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:47:58 <Swissfan91> does it matter if I'm using Paint.net as opposed to Paintshop Pro or GIMP 11:48:50 <planetmaker> the result matters 11:48:53 <planetmaker> not the tools 11:49:45 <Swissfan91> I see. So I just download the palette, and take colours from it. And can I use everything other than the pure white colour? 11:50:28 <planetmaker> that doesn't cut it 11:50:40 <planetmaker> a palette is an image property 11:50:45 <planetmaker> it's an indexed image. It must not be rgb 11:51:55 <Swissfan91> So I need to do the thing in the IMPORTANT box on your link, PM? 11:52:34 <planetmaker> I don't know paint.net and thus don't know what you need to do to work with paletted images there 11:52:45 <planetmaker> you should know your tools, that's all :-) 11:53:25 <Terkhen> you should have some way of associating that palette to your sprite image 11:54:00 <Swissfan91> I have literally downloaded paint.net a few days ago to begin drawing, so I feel useless here, 11:55:25 <Elukka> so uhm 11:55:33 <Elukka> since i'm not using company colors, will i have to remove those from the palette? 11:55:56 <planetmaker> no 11:56:02 <planetmaker> just don't use them during drawing 11:56:06 <Elukka> hmm right 11:56:21 <Elukka> well i hope it doesn't coincidentally convert some pixels in this sprite to company colors :D 11:56:58 <Yexo> Elukka: that's what the extra conversion steps are for: RGB -> TTDWinSafe -> RGB -> TTDWinFull 11:57:03 <Yexo> replace "win" with "dos" 11:57:10 <Yexo> but the same advise applies 11:57:16 <Elukka> ah, right 11:57:51 <Swissfan91> paint.net allows you to open a palette > http://www.getpaint.net/doc/latest/WorkingWithPalettes.html 11:57:57 <Elukka> there isn't a dos safe palette there thoguh 11:58:20 <Yexo> hmm, someone should create that one :p 12:02:17 <Elukka> guhh converting to the palette messes everything up 12:02:32 <Elukka> i dunno why it thinks it should move certain pixel rows upwards by 1 px 12:02:49 <Elukka> oh i guess that's just coincidence 12:02:50 <Elukka> nvm 12:04:28 *** Swissfan91 [Swissfan91@5e0ad068.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 12:05:39 <Elukka> ah, that was dithering.. 12:08:45 <Elukka> okay, now it should be ready for ttd :) 12:10:44 <Elukka> erm, can i replace an attached image in the devzone somehow? 12:11:20 <Yexo> you can just attach the new version too? 12:12:00 <Elukka> i suppose 12:12:34 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:7d1c:87ed:2604:d441] has joined #openttd 12:12:38 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:17:34 <Elukka> hm. inconvenient that indexed images can't have layers 12:17:40 <Elukka> oh well, next time i'll know to use the right colors from the start 12:18:07 <Yexo> I'm quite sure in gimp you can have layers with indexed images 12:18:38 <Terkhen> yes, gimp can 12:19:10 <Terkhen> for ogfx-rv I have layers for each cargo sprite and everything is indexed 12:20:24 <planetmaker> Elukka: we even have a script which automatically exports a set of chosen layers to png files ;-) 12:21:23 <Elukka> huh... gimp can, but photoshop can't? 12:21:42 <planetmaker> also works with photoshop files 12:21:51 <planetmaker> as gimp can read those ;-) 12:22:20 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 12:23:58 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [] 12:24:19 <Elukka> i knew photoshop is bloated and inconvenient, but i didn't think it'd be behind on features :P 12:24:34 <planetmaker> it isn't 12:25:53 <Elukka> well it insists of flattening all layers when converting to indexed 12:26:19 <planetmaker> sounds like "sucks" ;-) 12:26:40 <Elukka> pretty much 12:26:46 <Yexo> can you add layers again after converting? 12:26:51 <Elukka> nope 12:27:10 <Elukka> wait it converted the image from psd to png no wonder 12:27:24 <Elukka> well still can't 12:27:43 <Elukka> what should work is i draw it as rgb using the palette colors, then convert it to indexed when done 12:27:46 <Elukka> shouldn't make any difference 12:31:40 <Elukka> hm. i think the longer coaches would look better on the more realistic scale, but since all the existing sprites are slightly smaller i guess i'll do that 12:32:02 <Elukka> not a huge difference either way 12:32:32 <Elukka> coincidentally it ends up mÀrklin scale :P 12:34:24 <Elukka> do you guys have preference on which scale they should follow? 12:35:09 <Elukka> real size in meters divided by 24*12 or 24*16 is what i've heard in context of CETS 12:35:29 <Elukka> both fit the templates fairly well 12:45:03 <planetmaker> Elukka: it's better to draw in the paletted image (I think) 12:45:22 <planetmaker> But some people indeed do it differently or even render stuff - and then convert and adjust pixels afterwards 12:45:33 <planetmaker> it's a matter of which work flow you prefer 12:46:10 <Elukka> heh 12:46:26 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 12:46:41 <Elukka> "The colours in the "company" range are often (but not always) changed to the current player colours. In some instances, they may be changed to colours specified by the .grf file, or random colours, or not changed at all." 12:46:55 <Elukka> if CETS doesn't use company colors, that would be rather useful (or is it already done) 12:47:18 <planetmaker> assume them to be CC 12:47:50 <Elukka> okay 12:47:57 <Elukka> do things break if i use a palette that simply omits them? 12:48:44 <Elukka> difficult to identify at a glance which is a company color and which is not 12:51:40 <Yexo> your final png file needs to have the exact palette 12:51:55 <Yexo> you can convert first to a palette without those colors and than convert again (via RGB) to a palette that has them 12:53:26 <planetmaker> Elukka: use ttdviewer, it's nice for that 12:53:40 <planetmaker> and the palette is always identical in the colour positions. 12:54:03 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/PalettesAndCoordinates#Palettes 12:54:06 <Yexo> if you really want to use the company colors without any change you can, it requires some support code but it's pretty easy 12:54:41 <planetmaker> yup. But... I'd not recommend that in this set's case 12:54:57 <planetmaker> makes for unnecessary complications. And blue can be drawn without 12:54:57 <Yexo> nope, I don't either 12:56:31 <Elukka> can i assume that if it looks alright in ttdviewer it'll look alright in game? 12:57:44 <Elukka> luckily don't seem to have accidentally used company colors since the company recolor does nothing in the viewer 13:19:32 *** mase76 [~mase@p5DD39F4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:26:27 *** mase [~mase@p5DD3A914.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:34:27 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.152.164.59] has joined #openttd 14:05:18 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:06:12 *** hanf [~Klaus@cpc2-hart4-0-0-cust324.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:06:18 *** Swissfan91 [Swissfan91@5e0ad068.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 14:09:13 <Belugas> hi hi 14:09:41 <Swissfan91> hi Belugas 14:11:21 <Belugas> hello sir :) 14:11:30 <Swissfan91> do you, or anyone else on here, use paint.net? 14:12:25 <Belugas> not me, sorry 14:12:44 <Belugas> i use Paint Shop Pro and Photoshop 14:13:03 <Swissfan91> darn ): 14:13:54 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 14:14:04 <Swissfan91> do palettes, such as the TTD one, come as a palette file? or just a png? 14:14:14 <Rubidium> I use brushes and rollers 14:16:25 * Terkhen uses gimp 14:17:06 <Swissfan91> other palettes online seem to come as .txt files, but the TTD one is .act ? 14:17:18 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 14:19:41 <Terkhen> Swissfan91: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/documents/1 14:21:00 <Swissfan91> thanks Terkhen, but there is a lot of jargon there :P 14:24:50 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 14:30:39 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: the easiest way to get a valid palette is to generate a png with grfcodec (by decompiling a grf) 14:37:23 <planetmaker> or just download a paletted grf 14:37:27 <planetmaker> png file 14:41:14 <Swissfan91> you mean, when someone posts a sprite and they attach the palette.. download that and open it in paint.net? 14:42:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: can also use a screenshot 14:43:43 <Swissfan91> a screenshot of? 14:44:04 <Eddi|zuHause> a screenshot made by pressing ctrl+s in openttd 14:44:44 <Swissfan91> oh, you mean taking a shot of a town, and using colours from the buildings? 14:45:12 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the png has the full palette built into it 14:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> what's in the picture is irrelevant 14:46:30 <Swissfan91> sorry, I'm not following. (brain is scambled after looking at pixels for too long!). 14:51:42 <planetmaker> Swissfan91: a palette is part of an image. It's not something extra 14:51:45 <planetmaker> or can be part 14:51:51 <planetmaker> it is part of all openttd screenshots 14:52:50 <Swissfan91> ah. I was thinking a palette was just that box of coloured pixels 14:56:16 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 15:05:36 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:49 <Swissfan91> can I download and use the palettes posted here > http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=905934#p905934 15:09:28 <planetmaker> they won't magically convert your image into a paletted image, though 15:09:58 <planetmaker> they are correct, though 15:10:01 <planetmaker> iirc 15:10:18 <planetmaker> but the first place to look should be the newgrf-specs wiki ;-) 15:10:50 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has joined #openttd 15:11:06 <Swissfan91> this? http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Main_Page 15:11:30 <Swissfan91> sorry, this http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/PalettesAndCoordinates#Palettes 15:14:47 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:16:17 <Swissfan91> OK, I have downloaded GIMP. Would it be easier for someone to talk me through it now? :) 15:26:47 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:54 *** luckz [~lkz@luckz.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:55 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:07 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:42 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:14 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has joined #openttd 15:35:50 *** luckz [~lkz@luckz.de] has joined #openttd 15:40:02 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 15:46:17 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 15:46:17 *** George is now known as Guest9480 15:46:18 *** George|2 is now known as George 15:50:27 *** Guest9480 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:54:16 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-248-112.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:58:51 *** AntB [~AntB@cpc2-shef8-0-0-cust213.barn.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:01:09 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-190.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:08:44 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:50 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:16 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has joined #openttd 16:12:21 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16:53 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has joined #openttd 16:22:02 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 16:27:30 *** Coke [~peter@h-135-45.a254.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 16:27:58 <Coke> Hi guys! Is this the latest, correct algorithm for cargo income? http://wiki.openttd.org/Cargo_income#Overview 16:28:40 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:00 <Coke> I checked GetTransportedGoodsIncome in economy.cpp, it seems to support it. 16:29:15 <Coke> However, I'm getting way too low numbers when trying to implement this math function elsewhere. 16:30:11 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 16:30:15 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:38 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has joined #openttd 16:41:30 *** Coke [~peter@h-135-45.a254.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:42:29 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:42:42 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has joined #openttd 16:43:10 *** hanf [~Klaus@cpc2-hart4-0-0-cust324.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:44:42 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc680.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:44:46 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-156-235-224.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:45:34 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 16:47:03 <LordAro> afternoonings 16:49:25 <planetmaker> hi LordAro 16:49:33 <LordAro> hi planetmaker 16:54:30 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:11 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:55:35 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has joined #openttd 16:59:02 <Swissfan91> afternoone LordAro 16:59:26 <LordAro> hi Swissfan91 17:09:07 <Swissfan91> how are things? 17:09:30 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:09:48 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:54 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has joined #openttd 17:15:26 <LordAro> Swissfan91: ok i guess 17:15:28 <LordAro> :) 17:22:28 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.73.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:22:45 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:25:53 *** Nijn [~Roland@ip503d90e4.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:27:51 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.73.65] has joined #openttd 17:30:25 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:32:01 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:45:22 *** AntB [~AntB@cpc2-shef8-0-0-cust213.barn.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Invalid Hostmask] 17:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22907 /trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt: 17:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen 17:54:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22908 /trunk/src/tree_gui.cpp: -Codechange: silence MSVC warning 17:56:02 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:57:37 *** Swissfan91 [Swissfan91@5e0ad068.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:03:03 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:04:28 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 18:08:18 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:43 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 18:11:39 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 18:16:07 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:13 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16:34 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:05 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:19:06 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has joined #openttd 18:21:58 *** hanf [~Klaus@cpc2-hart4-0-0-cust324.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:22:35 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:45 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has joined #openttd 18:22:51 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:27:08 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:15 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has joined #openttd 18:28:33 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@91.84.178.95] has joined #openttd 18:34:22 *** Lakie [~Lakie@82.152.164.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:36:34 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 18:36:50 <__ln__> http://www.gp.se/nyheter/goteborg/1.718310-27-skadade-till-sjukhus 18:39:49 <Eddi|zuHause> looks serious 18:40:21 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:26 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:48 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has joined #openttd 18:41:06 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host26-234-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:41:31 <Markk> __ln__: Wow, sheisse. 18:41:52 <Wolf01> hello 18:42:53 <Markk> The trams should have (magnetic) track brake. 18:43:00 <__ln__> btw, ludde is said to be living in Göteborg 18:44:58 *** lasershock` [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:27 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 18:46:13 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 18:51:02 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:49 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:09 <LordAro> Zuu: did you ever post a screenie? can't find anything in the logs 18:56:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:00:37 <Zuu> LordAro: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=969297#p969297 19:00:55 <Zuu> As you had quit, I found no point of linking it to you 19:01:10 <LordAro> true :) 19:01:18 <LordAro> looks good, well done! :) 19:02:00 <Zuu> I'm amazed that all.patch is about 2000 lines long. 19:02:27 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:03:17 <Zuu> (though it includes some 200 lines of project file changes that shouldn't be there) 19:04:07 <Zuu> Hmm, I must have been tired yesterday. It is not 2k but 1k-ish lines :-D 19:15:52 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:16:14 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:16:45 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has joined #openttd 19:16:46 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 19:44:20 <frosch123> oops, the printing works in gone 19:44:32 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-255-16.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:45:59 <frosch123> luckily there is a second one nearby 19:46:16 <Terkhen> maybe there is a newgrf that prevents that :P 19:47:12 <frosch123> :p 19:50:26 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 19:56:15 <frosch123> hmm, i cannot refit trams to half wheat, half livestock 19:57:01 <frosch123> livestock tram \o/ 19:57:14 <__ln__> obviously the livestock would eat the wheat if they are on the same tram 19:59:20 <frosch123> well, they both go to the same food processing plant 19:59:25 <frosch123> so it would make no difference 20:00:35 <Terkhen> that's why andy wants to do rv-wagons :P 20:01:10 <frosch123> well, i build two tramstops parallel to each other 20:01:31 <frosch123> livestock can walk a tile 20:01:37 <Terkhen> :P 20:03:58 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has joined #openttd 20:06:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22909 /trunk/os/windows/installer/ (install.nsi version_win32.txt version_win9x.txt): -Fix-ish [FS#4749]: let Windows 2000 and XP without service pack 3 use the win9x binary/installer; the newer MSVC compiler of the compile farm does not support those versions of Windows anymore 20:06:56 <LordAro> :( 20:07:30 <LordAro> to be expected, i guess 20:07:31 <TrueBrain> not :(. It is progress. 20:08:23 <LordAro> true 20:09:56 <valhallasw> LordAro: the people who run XP without SP3 deserve the :( ;-) 20:10:24 <LordAro> i guess :) 20:10:42 <LordAro> just that i still have several win2k PCs at home :) 20:13:26 <Rubidium> well, don't use unicode... or compile it yourself with an older version of MSVC 20:13:32 <Terkhen> or update :P 20:13:54 <pjpe> ^^ this is the best optoon 20:14:02 <andythenorth> I want to do rv-wagons? 20:14:04 <andythenorth> nah 20:14:11 <andythenorth> I want *someone else* to do rv-wagons :P 20:14:43 <Rubidium> pjpe: updating Windows? That's a disaster waiting to happen, or do you mean reinstalling a newer version? 20:15:16 <Terkhen> heh, anyone has actually tried to do that? 20:15:19 <pjpe> not using windows 2000 entirely 20:15:28 <Rubidium> or at least used to be back in the days I used Windows, which is around 2000 and early XP 20:15:35 <Terkhen> with updating I mean reinstall a new version 20:15:41 <LordAro> pjpe: i agree, but not my choice 20:15:43 <Terkhen> windows 7 offers the same possibility with vista too 20:17:00 <pjpe> i don't think microsoft even supports win2k anymore 20:17:05 <pjpe> that's about the point where you know it's wrong 20:17:25 <glx> it's still indicated in msdn 20:18:30 <Terkhen> I remember some relatively recent news about extending support for XP, I didn't think that 2000 was still supported at all 20:19:05 <planetmaker> it's not supported anymore 20:20:25 <Rubidium> 2000's extended support was till mid 2010 20:21:01 <planetmaker> http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?p1=3071 20:21:27 <Rubidium> XP till 2014 or 2016 (Embedded) 20:22:15 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:46 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has joined #openttd 20:23:26 <Rubidium> although only SP3 of XP is supported as of now 20:23:48 <planetmaker> which is fair enough 20:25:20 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:26:49 <LordAro> indeed 20:28:07 <Rubidium> us "supporting" basically the earliest windows 95s is really insane, but it makes those decisions of 'dropping' some support for ancient platforms much easier 20:29:24 <frosch123> andythenorth: did you play the corsica heightmap? 20:29:29 <andythenorth> no 20:29:31 <LordAro> meh, should support windows 3.1 :D 20:29:32 <andythenorth> I should 20:29:37 <andythenorth> I like Corsica :) 20:29:44 <andythenorth> my honeymoon was in Corsica 20:29:51 <frosch123> you should not have any problems finding long rivers 20:29:59 <andythenorth> there is no french narrow gauge set :P 20:30:08 <andythenorth> so corsica is no-go 20:30:19 <andythenorth> and the rivers in corsica are *not* navigable :P 20:32:10 <Rubidium> LordAro: the dos version might work, although might very well not. Maybe it works if you compile the DOS version with an allegro that supports windows 3 (or lower) 20:32:32 <LordAro> :) 20:33:13 <andythenorth> frosch123: you are right about the rives though :) 20:33:21 <andythenorth> those are *very* long river systems 20:33:30 <andythenorth> complete networks 20:33:39 <andythenorth> why can't terragen do that? :( 20:35:02 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 20:35:02 <andythenorth> it's pretty awesome 20:35:09 <andythenorth> but the map is way too flat :P 20:35:25 <andythenorth> basically cheating to use a map that flat 20:35:47 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 20:40:50 <Eddi|zuHause> perlin is not the best way to generate good landscapes 20:41:41 <Eddi|zuHause> but... nobody implemented anything more useful 20:47:33 <Terkhen> scripted map generators 20:49:01 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [... und tschÃŒÃ!] 20:49:09 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 20:50:24 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 20:51:27 <Wolf01> 'night 20:51:38 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host26-234-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:52:04 <andythenorth> landscapes aren't just noise? They have signal? :o 20:53:58 *** hanf [~Klaus@cpc2-hart4-0-0-cust324.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:00:11 *** mase76 [~mase@p5DD39F4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:25 <Belugas> signal... noise... PG somewhere in my mind 21:01:50 <Belugas> yeah :D 21:01:54 <Belugas> Signal to Noise! 21:01:57 <Belugas> i knew it! 21:02:44 <andythenorth> PG? 21:02:55 <Belugas> Peter Gabriel :) 21:03:22 <andythenorth> he 21:03:57 <andythenorth> Peter Gabriel recent stuff is a bit...harsh 21:04:21 <andythenorth> he lives near me somewhere 21:04:30 <andythenorth> my friend made the Sledgehammer video :) 21:04:49 * andythenorth name drops :P 21:04:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i really hope he's not related to Sigmar Gabriel ;) 21:06:17 <frosch123> sg is the arch enemy of my home town :p 21:06:28 <Belugas> if ever you see him passing by, tell him he has some fans in Quebec! 21:06:36 <Belugas> PG, not SG.... 21:06:43 <Belugas> see ya 21:06:50 <andythenorth> he 21:07:04 <andythenorth> Belugas: do you remember Portishead? 21:08:05 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 21:09:04 <andythenorth> nvm 21:09:07 <andythenorth> bed time 21:09:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:12:12 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-186-170.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 21:12:22 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:14:13 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... it's not funny anymore what passes "terrorism" nowadays... they arrested two people who might have vague connections and maybe ordered suspicious substances that could possibly be used for a bomb, but had no actual preparations or plans... they do anything for a little "we need more security laws" psyop short before an election... 21:15:05 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:27 <hanf> Eddi|zuHause: assuming you're german, I read some stuff in die Zeit a while back about people wanting access to phone records etc. for that reason 21:16:30 <hanf> all seems a bit over the top 21:17:05 <Eddi|zuHause> hanf: it's more complicated than that 21:18:46 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: but it sells better than "two people arrested who ordered chemicals without permission" 21:18:54 <Eddi|zuHause> at first they couldn't realistically argue for phone record storage, then they went through the EU to pass a guideline, then they got that through the parliament, then the constitutional court declared it void, then they couldn't get it through parliament again 21:19:20 <planetmaker> and now companies store it nevertheless 21:19:45 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: which is highly illegal, actually 21:19:52 <hanf> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, it always is. I don't really follow german news much, mostly finance and british news. perhaps I should! 21:19:58 <hanf> when do you hold elections? 21:20:00 <planetmaker> sure it's illegal 21:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause> hanf: regional elections in berlin next weekend 21:20:16 <planetmaker> it's violating my fundamental rights on grounds of the constitution 21:21:13 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: by much older court decisions, companies are only allowed to store things immediately needed for billing purposes 21:21:29 <planetmaker> yes 21:21:35 <planetmaker> I know 21:21:49 <planetmaker> for that exact reason, though 21:21:51 <Eddi|zuHause> which is not at all for flatrates, and something 80-days-ish for connection-based billing 21:26:16 <planetmaker> but one should not wonder when the secretary of state and the boss of the federal police again and again request to change or make laws to that end - well knowing that they'll be both unconstitutional as well as without measurable effect on the number of resolved crimes 21:28:48 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:49 <Eddi|zuHause> there's only one person in the entire republic which has enough influence to stop this rubbish... and we don't know how much longer she can hold out... 21:29:04 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has joined #openttd 21:29:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the thing i fear most should the government happen to break up in the near future... 21:30:42 <planetmaker> hm you think that Merkel actively averts that? 21:30:49 <planetmaker> or whom do you talk of? 21:30:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant leuthÀuser-schnarrenberger 21:32:00 <planetmaker> ah. Yes, that's right. 21:32:44 <planetmaker> Her attitude wrt civil rights indeed warrants respect in that environment 21:33:43 <planetmaker> if her party were more about civil rights than economic-libertarian, it might even have a chance to survive elections to come 21:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i honestly don't see that happening... 21:35:02 <planetmaker> nor do I 21:35:04 <planetmaker> sadly 21:35:19 <planetmaker> the pirate party might superseed that 21:35:42 <planetmaker> though I'm not convinced there entirely either. 21:35:50 <Eddi|zuHause> they have a different problem: they aren't in any notable parliament yet 21:35:56 <LordAro> night all 21:35:59 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-156-235-224.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:36:04 <planetmaker> the difference between yet and anymore ;-) 21:36:37 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:36:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the FDP rescued one recent election by a narrow margin 21:37:10 <Eddi|zuHause> "they are not entirely dead yet" :p 21:37:28 <planetmaker> :-) 21:38:41 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe one of these days someone realizes that the "BÃŒndnis 90" part of the green party actually had something to do with civil rights once upon a time 21:39:48 <planetmaker> would suit well 21:40:03 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:18 <frosch123> night 21:47:20 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc680.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:18 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-248-112.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:54:04 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 21:58:21 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:41 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 22:05:47 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:22 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 22:13:58 * Zuu feels like an evil devil that reminds people about the rights of AIs :-) 22:14:33 <planetmaker> civil rAIghts movement? 22:15:04 <Zuu> Yep :-p 22:15:20 <Zuu> AI rAIghts movement 22:16:00 <Zuu> Or just ARM = AI Rights Movement :-) 22:16:14 <Terkhen> are they complaining because they can't just build stupid stuff anymore? 22:16:19 <Terkhen> now they have to work :P 22:17:33 <Zuu> Well, I can frosee someone complaining that they make something silly if there eg. appear cargo airports that to the AI looks exactly the same as PAX airports. 22:17:59 <Terkhen> oh, people complaining 22:18:08 <Terkhen> that is not exactly complicated to foresee :P 22:18:26 <planetmaker> lool :-) 22:20:21 <Zuu> Though, I have to say that from what I've seen the current AI API works better with current NewGRF airports than I first though when digging into it. 22:20:27 *** hanf [~Klaus@cpc2-hart4-0-0-cust324.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:20:46 <Zuu> AIs will simply just use the first view/layout no matter which rotation that happen to be. 22:21:11 <Yexo> luckily with opengfx+airport that is the default rotation 22:21:22 <Zuu> Eg. if a NewGRF disables the DIR_N rotation, another will be at index 0 and be available to the AI. 22:22:16 <Zuu> Though, the current height/width functions could be made rotation aware to handle if index 0 is DIR_W or DIR_E and I think it should not be too bad actually. 22:22:53 <Yexo> I think that is a nice task for the compatibility layer 22:23:14 <planetmaker> :-) 22:23:17 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:23:27 <Zuu> Yep, though the copatibility layer will just pass index zero to the new function :-) 22:23:44 <Yexo> it doesn't have to do that 22:24:02 <Zuu> But, it can't know which rotation index zero is as there is no API to check that. 22:24:03 <Yexo> it could do something fancy like listing all views, pick the first with rotation DIR_N (or maybe also DIR_S) and pass that view 22:24:25 <Yexo> it could check the width/height of each rotation 22:24:30 <Zuu> DIR_* is not exposed to the AI. 22:24:43 <Yexo> and compare that to hardcoded list of sizes of the default airports 22:26:23 *** Nijn [~Roland@ip503d90e4.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 22:27:05 <Zuu> Aren't NewGRFs currently allowed to create new tile layouts that are different sized than default airports? 22:27:24 <Yexo> yes, they are 22:27:35 <Yexo> but for all but DIR_N and DIR_E I think that'll break the rotation 22:28:31 <Zuu> DIR_E is 90 degree clockwise? 22:29:13 <Yexo> yes 22:29:39 <Yexo> hmm, or maybe it won't 22:32:47 <Zuu> An AI (and thus compat layer) can't know if a given airport index is a default airport or not. 22:32:59 <Zuu> Fixing that airport eg. 40 is a buildable small airport is sure doable. 22:33:16 <Yexo> Zuu: default airports will keep the same IDs for the compat layer 22:33:32 <Yexo> AIs using the compat layer are AIs designed for OpenTTD <= 1.1, so not using AIAirportList etc. 22:33:52 <Zuu> But for compatibility layer reasons I'm unsure if we can make the <= 9 airports non-buildable when they are overriden. Though, I now remember that we had already decided to in that case just screw old AIs :-) 22:34:20 <Yexo> hmm, that bug in openttd is still open 22:34:26 <Yexo> need to fix that soon ;) 22:35:08 <Zuu> Thus if the default Ids are marked non-buildable when they are overriden and those > max NewGRF id are also non-buildable, a compat layer can know if a given Id is a default airport or not. 22:35:54 <Zuu> And then your idea rearding checking sizes can apply. However, in that case you also know that DIR_N is available. :-) 22:36:16 <Zuu> .. and is index 0 22:36:37 <Zuu> so nothing is gained :-p 22:37:07 <Zuu> (compared to always using index 0) 22:39:48 <Zuu> That said, making default ids non-buildable when overriden + fixing that bug is probably both good things to do. 22:40:08 <Yexo> yep 22:40:12 <Yexo> but not for now :) 22:40:15 <Yexo> good night all 22:40:19 <Zuu> Indeed, night Yexo 22:42:04 <Terkhen> good night Yexo 22:42:36 <planetmaker> good night ye 22:42:40 <planetmaker> xo 22:42:42 <planetmaker> hm. 22:42:44 <planetmaker> broken ;-) 22:45:07 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d086761.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 22:52:25 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-190.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:00:29 <Zuu> good night 23:00:33 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:02:30 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:03:19 <Terkhen> good night 23:04:19 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d110-32-10-203.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:04:33 <Pikka> mentlegen 23:04:59 <Pikka> is it me or are the forums exceptionally slow the last couple of days? 23:06:01 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:18:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A1DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say "it's you", but i have also had a few problems a while ago 23:35:45 <Eddi|zuHause> not right now, though 23:37:34 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:37:39 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-072-074.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 23:39:01 <Pikka> hm 23:41:51 *** Nijn [~Roland@ip503d90e4.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:46:55 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has joined #openttd 23:50:32 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has joined #openttd 23:56:10 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.84.107] has joined #openttd