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14:00:59 *** SpBot [spbot@skrblz.fixme.fi] has joined #openttd 14:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think THIS_LENGTH_ADJUST_1 and THIS_LENGTH_ADJUST_2 have something to do with this 14:03:53 <andythenorth> I'll look into it 14:04:13 <andythenorth> ah 14:04:22 <andythenorth> I think they're used by locomotives only at the moment 14:04:28 <andythenorth> wagons have a hard coded set of adjusts 14:04:30 <andythenorth> which is fine 14:04:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i think i can rework the concept to adjust length of locomotive 14:05:00 <Eddi|zuHause> hang on a second 14:09:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: new layout at http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/tram.txt 14:10:25 <andythenorth> so all 1/8 or 5/8 now? 14:10:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 14:10:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and the locomotive uses LENGTH_ADJUST_1 and 2 14:11:54 <andythenorth> ok thanks 14:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i think LENGTH_ADJUST_1 = 06 and LENGTH_ADJUST_2 = 05 14:15:18 *** nidhoegger [~nidhoegge@p4FDE2F3C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:15:19 <nidhoegger> hi 14:15:48 <nidhoegger> im trying to build the dedicated server on a ubuntu server. but it keeps saying i got no lib lzma...ive installed according to the webpage liblzma-dev. error is still present 14:16:27 <Eddi|zuHause> you need lzma2 (sometimes called xz) 14:16:34 <nidhoegger> installed... 14:17:06 <Eddi|zuHause> lzma and lzma2 are different things 14:17:18 <nidhoegger> ive installed liblzma2 and liblzma-dev 14:17:29 <nidhoegger> according to the wiki only liblzma-dev is neccessary 14:17:42 <Eddi|zuHause> liblzma2-dev 14:17:59 <nidhoegger> there is no such package 14:18:05 <Eddi|zuHause> then it's xz-dev 14:18:11 <Eddi|zuHause> or libxz-dev 14:18:14 <Alberth> liblzma.so.5 => /usr/lib64/liblzma.so.5 <-- is what my openttd binary says 14:18:35 <nidhoegger> and libxz also doesnt exist 14:18:42 <Alberth> rpm -qf /usr/lib64/liblzma.so.5 <-- results in xz-libs-5.0.3-1.fc15.x86_64 14:18:51 <Alberth> but that's fedora, and not debian 14:19:03 <Eddi|zuHause> on suse it's called xz-devel 14:20:37 <nidhoegger> why does the dedicated server require a graphics set? 14:21:02 <Alberth> because it contains a lot more than pretty pictures 14:21:17 <Alberth> ie all meta data about vehicles etc etc 14:21:46 <nidhoegger> kay 14:22:00 * Alberth ponders whether we have a wiki about these topics 14:23:32 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that all appears to work :D 14:23:38 <andythenorth> I know have to draw pictures 14:23:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: eery, right? :) 14:24:02 <andythenorth> currently the trams are the earlier models, painted pink, with push-me-pull-you (one at each end) 14:24:16 <andythenorth> not pretty 14:24:43 <andythenorth> "ottd is dying" 14:24:48 <andythenorth> "HEQS is not" :D 14:24:52 <MNIM> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=57133 14:24:55 <MNIM> hmmmmh 14:24:59 <MNIM> inventive hack 14:25:45 <MNIM> could speed up water aircraft development considerably 14:27:04 <Alberth> water aircraft does not sound very useful to me 14:27:29 <Alberth> ie what are you going to do with it? fish? 14:28:19 <andythenorth> Alberth: deliver supplies to remote camps 14:28:37 <andythenorth> Alberth: what water-feature recently got added to trunk...? :) 14:29:38 <Alberth> /me is tycoon, /me does not care about remote camps :p 14:30:45 <Alberth> a smaller (muddy) airport on the other hand at land would be more useful in such cases 14:31:29 <MNIM> andythenorth: isn't actually water feature, is clean GRF 14:32:03 <andythenorth> MNIM: I was thinking about float planes landing on rivers 14:32:18 <MNIM> delete water tiles, place newobject water tiles around intended airport to prevent flooding, place airport 14:32:22 <nidhoegger> can i somehow manually join an IP address? 14:32:39 <MNIM> oh, that 14:32:43 <b_jonas> MNIM: wouldn't canal tiles work for that? 14:33:14 *** Trojanin [trojanin@floss.pl] has joined #openttd 14:33:22 <MNIM> they would, but that would create an ugly border mismatch unless you expand the sprites to cover neighboring land 14:33:44 <MNIM> which might or might not present clipping issues too. 14:34:00 <Alberth> nidhoegger: just type the ip instead of the hostname afaik 14:34:09 <b_jonas> border mismatch? don't the canals look just like sea? 14:34:16 <nidhoegger> thanks 14:34:23 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-157-224.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:34:31 <b_jonas> hmm, maybe at the airport 14:34:37 <b_jonas> there would be canal shores 14:35:05 <nidhoegger> working, thank you :D 14:36:06 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-158-224.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 14:36:21 *** kadmoz [~kadmoz@188-22-107-48.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 14:38:34 <nidhoegger> is there a script or a option that keeps only 10 autosaves and removes the oldest ones? 14:38:45 <nidhoegger> i dont want my server hdd to fill up with autosaves 14:38:53 <Yexo> there is a config setting for that 14:39:03 <nidhoegger> where? 14:39:13 <Yexo> set keep_all_autosave to false 14:39:17 <Rubidium> by default it keeps 16 14:39:24 <Yexo> and they should be named "autosave0.sav", "autosave1.sav" etc. 14:39:24 <nidhoegger> thanks! 14:40:06 <Yexo> max_num_autosaves holds the number it keeps 14:40:18 <nidhoegger> got it 14:40:26 <nidhoegger> but it somehow ignores my max client setting... 14:40:35 <nidhoegger> serverlist tells me server is 2 player only 14:40:56 <Yexo> it's max_clients in [network] 14:41:05 <andythenorth> bbl 14:41:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:41:17 *** Trojanin [trojanin@floss.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:41:22 <nidhoegger> yes, i can set whatever i want, as soon as i run openttd -D it resets it to two 14:41:27 <Yexo> the deafult is 25 14:41:42 <Yexo> are you sure it's not twice in your config file or somethign like that? 14:41:58 <nidhoegger> yes 14:42:01 <nidhoegger> grepped it 14:42:02 <nidhoegger> max_clients = 2 14:42:03 <Alberth> you stop OpenTTD before modifying the config file? 14:42:08 <glx> there's also max_players IIRC 14:42:10 <nidhoegger> of course 14:42:30 <Yexo> there is no max_players anymore 14:42:39 <Yexo> max_companies, max_clients and max_spectators 14:43:05 <glx> ha right 14:43:23 <nidhoegger> good, i think he got it now 14:43:41 <nidhoegger> if the server crashes, is there a way to reload the latest backup? 14:43:52 <glx> -g 14:43:57 <nidhoegger> thanks! 14:44:06 <Yexo> doesn't -g create a random game? 14:44:19 <nidhoegger> no, looked it up 14:44:23 <glx> well -g /path/to/savegame 14:44:24 <nidhoegger> -g [savegame] = Start new/save game immediately 14:44:33 <frosch123> -G is random game :) 14:44:40 <Yexo> but for that you need to know what the savegam ename is 14:44:46 <Yexo> and you don't know that if the server crashed 14:48:40 <nidhoegger> i set the autosaves max to 4...so in the worst case the last 4 years will be lost only 14:51:15 <Yexo> you can load a savegame via rcon, so if you give your friends the rcon password they can just try all 4 until they have the last version 14:54:17 <nidhoegger> can i chat ingame? 14:55:45 <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Multiplayer 14:57:12 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 14:59:23 <nidhoegger> thanks...enter is the only key i didnt try 14:59:34 <nidhoegger> btw, if developers are here: MANY THANKS FOR THIS AWESOME GAME! 14:59:52 <Yexo> you've been talking to them ;) 14:59:53 <Yexo> thanks :) 15:01:45 <nidhoegger> :D cool 15:05:52 *** Maarten_ [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:11 *** brundlefly [none@50-44-67-1.bltn.il.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 15:13:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:14:10 <nidhoegger> cant i rename town in server game? 15:14:36 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that is disabled 15:14:40 <nidhoegger> thanks 15:16:38 <Yexo> only the server can rename towns. with a dedicated server there is no way to do it 15:22:45 <nidhoegger> also not via rcon? 15:23:05 <brundlefly> what do i hg clone from to get a server which speaks the 1.1.3 protocol? 15:23:06 <brundlefly> i did 'http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/branches/1.1.hg', and 1.1.3 clients make protocol errors 15:24:31 <Yexo> nidhoegger: I don't think there is a console command to rename towns 15:24:51 <Yexo> brundlefly: you'd need exactly version 1.1.3, I don't think that's in hg at all 15:25:09 <Yexo> though you could try to get the correct version (not tip from that repo, but something earlier) and force the revision to 1.1.3 15:25:19 <Yexo> checking out the 1.1.3 tag from svn would be easier 15:25:29 <brundlefly> i don't know how to svn 15:25:36 <Alberth> or download the source code of 1.1.3 15:25:55 <blotek_> is there any website with sourcemods for openttd ? 15:26:05 <Yexo> blotek_: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=33 15:26:08 <blotek_> ty ;) 15:26:27 <andythenorth> hmm 15:26:36 <andythenorth> only lead vehicle shows visual effect for RVs 15:26:38 <brundlefly> i'm trying to preserve the history, but i'm using the tarball right now 15:27:42 <Alberth> how would the history of 1.1.3 be useful? you better develop in trunk 15:28:14 <Alberth> since any change in 1.1.3 makes it non-1.1.3 and thus not useful for anybody 15:28:53 <brundlefly> i'm not going to distribute me changes anyway 15:29:23 <brundlefly> and i can't develop from the trunk without losing the ability to talk to 1.1.3 clients 15:29:48 <Yexo> if you want to communicate to 1.1.3 clients you have very limited possibilities anyway 15:30:12 <TrueBrain> the 1.1 HG already has the backports for a potential next release btw ;) 15:30:31 <brundlefly> well i don't know what those limited possibilities are 15:30:35 <TrueBrain> update to rev 'b81203d3886e' to get 1.1.3 15:30:53 <brundlefly> okay, thanks 15:30:57 <Yexo> why are you so set on not distributing your changes, and what exactly do you want to change? 15:31:03 <TrueBrain> "hg log" shows you the ogs 15:33:13 <brundlefly> i doubt anyone would want the changes. all i'm going to be doing is playing around with admin console things 15:33:38 <Yexo> that should be safe 15:33:49 <Yexo> anyway, if those changes are useful for you, wouldn't they also be useful for other people? 15:34:10 <brundlefly> if others want them, all they have to do is ask 15:35:12 *** blotek_ [~blotek@acqy138.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:01 *** blotek [~blotek@acqy138.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 15:36:08 *** blotek [~blotek@acqy138.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:00 <Alberth> which is a bit hard if you don't tell about them 15:37:09 <brundlefly> you know now 15:37:14 <brundlefly> and they'll be on bitbucket soon 15:37:27 <brundlefly> i'm just playing around. no big deal 15:37:33 <Alberth> I am not 'they' :) 15:52:52 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 15:54:47 <brundlefly> b81203d3886e still won't talk to 1.1.3 clients 15:54:47 <brundlefly> so i'll use the tarball i guess 15:55:42 *** Elu [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:58:51 <TrueBrain> subversion is always best to do for stable clients 15:58:54 <TrueBrain> (or tarballs) 15:58:59 <TrueBrain> mercurial clients need ... love 15:59:08 <TrueBrain> (they do not have a 'tag' clone) 15:59:32 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:03:50 <brundlefly> why is it that the protocol is so volatile? 16:05:03 <Yexo> the protocol is not, but every client has the complete gamestate 16:05:13 <Yexo> the server only sends commands to the client, not changes to the state 16:05:27 <Yexo> that means that when the main gameloop is changed the compatibility breaks 16:05:55 <Eddi|zuHause> brundlefly: the protocol relies on the fact that all connected clients calculate everything game relevant in the exact same way 16:06:20 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise you'd need to transfer several MB per second 16:06:42 <Eddi|zuHause> which means nobody could play multiplayer that isn't on a 100Mbit line 16:06:52 <TrueBrain> and stable clients are forked seperately. So if you want to join stable servers, you need the source from a validated stable :P 16:06:56 <brundlefly> is that the same way quake does it? 16:07:09 <Eddi|zuHause> no, quake does something entirely different 16:07:12 <Yexo> quake is no way comparable 16:07:30 <brundlefly> so why does ottd use more bandwidth than quake? 16:07:43 <TrueBrain> lol 16:07:55 <TrueBrain> what a question :) 16:08:08 <TrueBrain> why is OpenTTD executable smaller than the Quake executable? :) 16:08:24 <nidhoegger> is there a way to open a chat window so i can see past messages? 16:08:31 <Yexo> did you measure how much bandwidth openttd uses? 16:08:52 <Yexo> nidhoegger: you can see them in the console (press the key left to 1 on your keyboard), otherwise no 16:09:11 <nidhoegger> thanks 16:09:13 <brundlefly> s//so why would ottd use more bandwidth than quake if it did things the quake way?/ 16:09:36 <Alberth> we have a LOT of gamestate 16:10:08 <Yexo> the gamestate in quake is basically: position, direction, health, some ammo for every player 16:10:20 <Yexo> that's not a lot 16:10:40 <Yexo> the gamestate in openttd is easily several mb for normal maps 16:10:46 <brundlefly> oh, okay 16:11:02 <Yexo> the map alone is 2.4 mb for a 512*512 map 16:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and then you don't have any vehicles or stations yet 16:11:48 <Yexo> if you want to sent that every game tick (when it changes) you need 70megabyte / second 16:12:01 <Yexo> add in vehicles and stations and even a gigabit connection is not fast enough 16:12:16 <brundlefly> why would you need to send the entire map each frame? why wouldn't a diff do? 16:12:39 <Alberth> you forgot about the industries & houses :) 16:12:43 <Yexo> a diff could do, but that means keeping the old map so you could actually diff 16:13:06 <brundlefly> well doesn't the client keep the map? 16:13:11 <Yexo> a diff not only needs to send the changed bytes but also some metadata 16:13:16 <Yexo> brundlefly: yes, it does 16:13:27 <Yexo> that's why we currently don't send changes to the map but only the commands 16:13:28 <Alberth> brundlefly: useful for sending a dif from the server :p 16:13:31 <Eddi|zuHause> brundlefly: you need two maps to make a diff 16:13:58 <brundlefly> oh right, lol 16:14:01 <Eddi|zuHause> brundlefly: and the diff may get larger than the actual map 16:14:22 <brundlefly> but why not a diff queue? 16:14:53 <brundlefly> and send a "keyframe" when a client falls behind and the queue becomes to big? 16:15:22 <Yexo> a keyframe means an actual savegame, which can be several mb big 16:15:46 <brundlefly> well that gets sent when a client connects, right? 16:15:47 <Yexo> which for a lot of players still means multiple seconds downloading, so either pausing the game for multiple seconds or being behind for a few second again 16:16:02 <Eddi|zuHause> brundlefly: yes, and connecting takes several seconds 16:16:36 <Eddi|zuHause> brundlefly: so unless you want the keyframe to be sent only once per minute... 16:17:01 <brundlefly> like i said, only when a client falls out of sync 16:17:02 <Alberth> and do one frame / minute :) 16:17:19 <Yexo> brundlefly: you mean as in "too slow" or "desync error"? 16:17:28 <brundlefly> so how does the ottd way prevent a client falling out of sync and needing a "keyframe"? 16:17:35 <Alberth> brundlefly: yeah, but once he is, he will not get up-to-date 16:17:48 <Alberth> since downloading takes too much time 16:17:52 <Yexo> brundlefly: by executing the same commands on both the server and all clients 16:18:00 <Eddi|zuHause> brundlefly: "needing a keyframe" is done by kicking out the player, and he has to rejoin 16:18:25 <brundlefly> then it sounds like we're using different terms for the same thing then 16:19:03 <Yexo> hence my question: what exactly do you mean by "getting out of sync"? 16:19:53 <brundlefly> i mean getting so far behind the server than the server decides to stop maintain the old diffs for that client 16:20:41 <Yexo> that means the server would have to keep diffs, which it currently doesn't do 16:20:51 <Yexo> the reason for that being too much bandwith 16:21:32 <nidhoegger> where does the dedicated server store the autosaves? its not in .openttd 16:21:47 <nidhoegger> wait, it is 16:21:49 <nidhoegger> my error 16:21:49 <Yexo> .openttd/save/autosave 16:21:52 <nidhoegger> thanks! 16:21:56 <brundlefly> i'm not seeing how the server maintaining a diff queue in memory would take up bandwidth 16:22:46 <Yexo> the problem is not maintaining the diff queue, the problem is sending that diff queue to every client 16:23:29 <brundlefly> i wouldn't send the entire queue each frame, just the most recent diff each frame 16:23:39 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:23:43 <brundlefly> as a video codec would do 16:23:45 <Yexo> but every diff can easily be 1 megabyte 16:23:52 <Yexo> and there are 30 frames each second 16:23:54 <Yexo> you do the math :) 16:24:15 <brundlefly> how could a diff be 1M but a command can't be? 16:24:20 <Eddi|zuHause> brundlefly: take for example tree growth 16:24:36 <Eddi|zuHause> brundlefly: it touches a large part of the map each tick, not confined to any given region 16:24:39 <Yexo> brundlefly: because there are a lot of things done automatically that don't need commands 16:24:47 <Yexo> like vehicles moving, tree growth, animation etc. 16:24:54 <brundlefly> oh, i see 16:25:45 <Eddi|zuHause> every 2.5 seconds, tree growth may have changed all tiles on the map 16:26:12 <Eddi|zuHause> so at least every 2.5 seconds you cause as much as one full savegame of diff-queues 16:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> (actually i lied, it's more like 8 seconds) 16:28:27 <Yexo> animated houses / industries can change there animated state every tick 16:28:38 <Yexo> or maybe every 4th tick for houses 16:35:04 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:35:45 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest15234 16:35:45 *** Guest15234 [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:45 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:35:45 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 16:45:32 <TrueBrain> brundlefly: btw, your initial assumption that OepnTTD uses more bandwidth than Quake is wrong :p 16:45:59 <TrueBrain> Quake is between 5 KB/s and 15 KB/s, depending on a few factors 16:46:03 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD is around 1.5 KB/s 16:46:06 <brundlefly> i phrased my initial question wrong 16:46:15 <brundlefly> see the sed command below 16:46:27 <TrueBrain> your sed was cloned from nothing, so it made even less sense :D 16:46:46 <brundlefly> your sed-fu is weak 16:46:55 <TrueBrain> I am a sane person, yeah ;) :P 16:47:02 <TrueBrain> hihi :D 16:47:35 <TrueBrain> anyway, your question is similar to the question we used to get a lot: why doesn't OpenTTD uses UDP for its gamestate! :P 16:47:39 <TrueBrain> I always loved that question :) 16:47:40 *** blotek [~blotek@acqy138.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 16:47:55 <Eddi|zuHause> a"<TrueBrain> I am a sane person" <-- hahaha :p 16:47:59 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:47:59 <brundlefly> i understand why you wouldn't want to deal with udp 16:48:19 <TrueBrain> has nothing to do with wanting; Quake is from nature a completely different game than OpenTTD :) 16:48:24 <TrueBrain> the information is very different 16:48:36 <TrueBrain> if in Quake a few packets of the position of a player are not received, nobody cares 16:49:00 <TrueBrain> I always wonder why people compare OpenTTD in network with FPS 16:49:12 <brundlefly> i mean wanting to re-implement tcp atop udp 16:49:19 <TrueBrain> TCP on UDP == TCP :) 16:49:25 <TrueBrain> such a huge overhead for nothing :P 16:49:31 <TrueBrain> (many have tried, many more have failed :)) 16:49:41 <brundlefly> probably becuause quake is the only game protocol i'm passably familiar with 16:49:48 <TrueBrain> and many people are 16:49:55 <TrueBrain> which surprises me tbh :) 16:50:04 <brundlefly> i can build a 1.1.3 speaking server from the tarball 16:50:16 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 16:50:17 <TrueBrain> btw: http://wiki.openttd.org/Network_Protocol 16:50:24 <TrueBrain> explains a lot why and how things are done in OpenTTD 16:50:37 <brundlefly> but when i add an .hg dir, make does some shenanigans so that it can't speak 1.1.3 anymore 16:50:41 <brundlefly> how do it fix that? 16:50:51 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:57 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 16:51:05 <TrueBrain> if you have the 1.1.3 source tarball, you should be having a .. what is the file called ... 16:51:07 <TrueBrain> .ottdrev? 16:51:24 <brundlefly> it looks the same before and after 16:51:26 <Yexo> I think it'll keep working if you just do hg init, but just test to make sure 16:51:31 <TrueBrain> ah , lol, hg takes precendence :D 16:51:48 <TrueBrain> findversion.sh checks first svn, then git, then hg, then .ottdrev :D 16:51:54 <michi_cc> brundlefly: By using a subversion or git checkout as the config script will also try to get the hg from your new repo. 16:51:57 <Yexo> I'd say that's the sane order 16:51:59 <brundlefly> src/rev.cpp also looks the same before and after 16:52:07 <TrueBrain> Yexo: it is; just unexpected :D 16:52:54 <TrueBrain> brundlefly: but that brings us to the main question again: why do you want to do that? It only makes sense if you want to modify 1.1.3, which you shouldn't be doing :D 16:53:15 <brundlefly> so i can play with the admin interface 16:53:25 <TrueBrain> why can't you otherwise? 16:53:27 <Eddi|zuHause> mÀh... no matter how flexible your track geometry is wrt offered switch types, you immediatly find a situation where it's not enough 16:53:34 <TrueBrain> if with the admin interface you mean the admin port, it just works? 16:53:42 <brundlefly> i want my changes to run on my server 16:53:55 <TrueBrain> ah; officially OpenTTD doesn't support those actions :) 16:54:19 <TrueBrain> you most likely will claim they cause no potential problem, but we might receive bug reports that a client crashes or something (should never happen, but okay :P) 16:54:56 <TrueBrain> sadly, in Open Source, we are rather limited in avoiding such problems, so a ./configure --help should help you enough 16:55:14 <TrueBrain> just use with EXTREME care 16:55:39 <brundlefly> i did ./configure --revision=1.1.3 but it still wouldn't talk 1.1.3 16:55:55 <brundlefly> i probably should have said that 16:56:03 <TrueBrain> it does help :P 16:56:19 <TrueBrain> and to my knowledge, that works 17:11:12 *** sla_ro|vista [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 17:11:33 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:19:21 *** KritiK_ [~Maxim@89-178-191-22.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 17:24:07 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-242-164.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:24:15 *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK 17:28:11 <blotek> YACD working ? 17:28:27 <blotek> i got errors while trying to apply patch ... 17:28:47 <Eddi|zuHause> then you didn't get the right revision for the patch 17:36:10 <Alberth> using tortoiseSVN? 17:36:40 <Alberth> (or some other patch utility that does not understand git patches) 17:37:45 <blotek> standard bash patch command 17:38:31 <Alberth> bash has no 'patch', but close enough :) 17:38:40 <blotek> u know what i mean ;p 17:38:47 <Alberth> then your revision is most likely wrong 17:39:17 <blotek> i mean 17:39:45 <blotek> can i apply it to actual version (1.1.3) or only testing releases? 17:39:50 <Alberth> by the looks of the file name yacd_v2_3_r22532.patch you need r22532 17:40:32 <Alberth> not a release (perhaps a nightly, not sure), just a random trunk version probably 17:41:36 <Alberth> blotek: patching releases is very non-useful, as there is nothing useful you can do with it afterwards 17:42:15 <Alberth> and all things you CAN do with it can be done with a trunk version too 17:42:23 <Yexo> blotek: if you patch 1.1.3 it's not 1.1.3 anymore. All clients would also need the patched version, so you might as well distribute a patched trunk 17:43:09 <Alberth> which is much easier in keeping up-to-date for merging 17:45:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23066 /trunk/src/lang/ (turkish.txt unfinished/tamil.txt welsh.txt): 17:45:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: tamil - 23 changes by aswn 17:45:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: turkish - 13 changes by niw3 17:45:19 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: welsh - 1 changes by kazzie 18:05:19 *** pjpe [ae5b514a@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:10:05 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #openttd [] 18:18:32 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6F704.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:30:47 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:47 *** KillerByte [~daniel@c-24-20-61-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 18:38:31 *** KillerByte [~daniel@c-24-20-61-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #openttd [] 18:39:22 <b_jonas> wow, UKRS gives me such a large choice of cars carrying goods already 18:39:24 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 18:41:04 <b_jonas> fast and slow ones 18:41:18 <b_jonas> but how can I tell which cars have continuous brake? 18:42:16 <Alberth> doesn't the documentation of the set tell you that? 18:43:34 <b_jonas> do you mean like this: http://www.pikkarail.com/ttdp/ukrs/stock.htm 18:44:13 <b_jonas> no, even that doesn't tell clearly 18:44:25 <b_jonas> it would be best if the in-game interface told me 18:45:17 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's possible to give an explanation text in the buy menu, it's the newgrfs job to actually do that 18:46:11 <b_jonas> yes 18:46:16 <b_jonas> some newgrf does do that 18:47:11 <Eddi|zuHause> well. then talk to the author of the newgrf 18:48:35 <Yexo> b_jonas: there is no concept in openttd of "continuous brake" for cars 18:48:46 <b_jonas> Yexo: does it depend only on the engine?\ 18:48:51 <Yexo> if UKRS offers that, it's something custom done by that newgrf 18:49:02 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-187-164.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 18:49:12 <Elu> my guess is that cars with it don't require the train to have a brake van 18:49:15 <Yexo> <b_jonas> it would be best if the in-game interface told me <- I was explaining why that is not possible to do for openttd, although the newgrf can supply some extra text there 18:49:17 *** Elu is now known as Elukka 18:49:24 <b_jonas> oh, right 18:49:50 <b_jonas> but istr the japanese trains newgrf does exactly that: adds extra text about continuous brake 18:51:06 <Elukka> yeah, newgrfs can do that 18:51:17 <Elukka> it's obviously up to the creator of the newgrf to do that though 18:53:42 <b_jonas> I think for this line I'll buy a train with a fast and expensive engine and one with a slow but cheap engine and see which one works better 18:54:57 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-53-42.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:56:04 *** KillerByte [~daniel@c-24-20-61-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 18:56:45 <b_jonas> or maybe not 18:57:44 <b_jonas> I'll do that experiment with the bulk cargos instead 19:00:22 <b_jonas> ah, look 19:00:48 <b_jonas> so UKRS implements this feature that when a train is not running it has a lowered running cost? 19:00:52 <b_jonas> wow 19:06:39 <Elukka> NARS and 2cc do too 19:06:43 <Elukka> it's a pretty nice feature 19:07:34 *** Acoma [~Wolfsherz@p57A6F704.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:07:37 *** Acoma [~Wolfsherz@p57A6F704.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 19:07:47 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6F704.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:12:04 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:22 *** KOPOBA [~xren@95.84.51.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:22:01 *** KOPOBA [~xren@79.126.73.140] has joined #openttd 19:22:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:32:04 <MNIM> you can have a lot of 'exhibits' with that feature :D 19:32:24 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6F704.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:34:43 <b_jonas> for exhibits you explicitly stop the train which stops the maintenance cost even with no newgrf 19:35:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:43 *** nidhoegger [~nidhoegge@p4FDE2F3C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:39:45 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-160-158.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 19:45:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:46:17 <MNIM> oh, I thought that wasn't standard 19:48:40 *** kadmoz [~kadmoz@188-22-107-48.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928134238]] 19:56:11 <b_jonas> ah, and apparently UKRS allows me to run short trains without a brake van, but longer trains using the same engine and cars require a brake van. 19:56:29 <b_jonas> just to further complicate the rules 20:02:05 <andythenorth> :) 20:02:08 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6F704.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:02:29 <andythenorth> adding a single vehicle to HEQS takes a whole day 20:02:30 <andythenorth> :o 20:02:51 <MNIM> only a day? 20:06:04 <Yexo> b_jonas: no image trying to code an AI. You at least can read the provided readme.txt or the website 20:06:09 <Yexo> *now 20:06:36 <b_jonas> Yexo: yeah 20:06:55 <b_jonas> maybe rules for brake vans and tenders should be supported by the core 20:07:07 <b_jonas> even if not used in the default grf set 20:07:50 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-187-164.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:11 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-187-164.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:24:05 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23067 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix [FS#4812]: updating the group statistics got more strict checks, so there was some trouble moving a vehicles and groups from one company to another 20:27:28 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 20:27:30 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:29:33 <andythenorth> `hmm 20:29:44 <z-MaTRiX> hey 20:30:14 <andythenorth> I can't get my tram to show correct capacity in vehicle menu 20:30:34 <andythenorth> consist is: engine + 15 wagons with same ID 20:30:45 <andythenorth> wagons have 15t capacity by default 20:31:01 <andythenorth> last vehicle in consist gets 7t capacity using cb36 20:31:40 <andythenorth> if I handle cargo FF with a chain handling cb36, I can get something, but not correct result 20:32:49 <andythenorth> does an articulated road vehicle trailing part have a cargo subtype set for buy menu chain? 20:34:51 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:48 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 20:36:15 <andythenorth> I need to fix all the trams in fact 20:36:17 <andythenorth> :) 20:36:30 <andythenorth> frosch123: any suggestions? ^ 20:36:46 <andythenorth> I can explain issue better if that helps 20:36:53 <andythenorth> maybe I'm missing a trick somewhere 20:41:40 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:41:48 <frosch123> when you buy a vehicle, subtypes are all zero 20:42:09 <frosch123> i guess your issue is that you try to detect the last part using some variable 20:42:13 <frosch123> like position in consist 20:42:17 <andythenorth> yup 20:42:19 <frosch123> but that is not going to work in purchase list 20:42:23 <andythenorth> precisely 20:42:36 <andythenorth> I considered using a different ID for the vehicle, but then I have to rewrite all templates :P 20:42:47 <andythenorth> (e.g. last vehicle) 20:42:53 <frosch123> usualy i suggest to make all trailing parts return zero capacity in purchase list, and return the complete capacity with the first vehicle 20:43:08 <andythenorth> this would be the best fix for all HEQS trams 20:43:15 <andythenorth> they all have the issue to some extent 20:43:38 <frosch123> if all vehicles including the front have the same id you are screwed :p 20:43:42 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 20:43:47 <andythenorth> nope 20:43:50 <andythenorth> should be ok :) 20:44:11 <andythenorth> so use cb36 on all tram locomotives I guess 20:44:45 <frosch123> just make sure to set the action 0 capacity property to a non-zero value. then you can do everything with cb 36 you like 20:44:55 <frosch123> (if you set the property to zero, the cb will not be called) 20:45:27 * andythenorth will experiments 20:52:14 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 20:57:36 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:08:53 *** devilsadvocate_ is now known as devilsadvocate 21:15:28 <andythenorth> frosch123: if cb36 is used, are all properties reset to 1? 21:15:35 <andythenorth> unless explicitly defined? 21:16:04 <andythenorth> (more likely a mistake by me) :P 21:17:55 <andythenorth> hmm 21:18:12 <andythenorth> if I use cb36 to adjust capacity, I also get weight 1t, speed 6mph 21:18:24 * andythenorth ponders 21:19:06 <Yexo> that's definitely an error by you 21:19:31 <andythenorth> what fun :( 21:20:01 <andythenorth> what could cause it? 21:20:20 * andythenorth examines 21:20:42 <MNIM> well, you can, obviously :P 21:22:53 <andythenorth> hmm 21:27:51 * andythenorth finds the answer 21:37:39 <andythenorth> hmm 21:38:22 <andythenorth> if I set the default cargo to GOOD(s), cb36 has a rather confused understanding of what to do 21:38:42 <andythenorth> all capacities come out multiplied by 0.5 21:40:20 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:40:45 <andythenorth> same if default is mail 21:41:33 <andythenorth> is the correct answer to double all capacities? 21:42:13 <andythenorth> frosch123: ^ I think this is a known issue? 21:43:19 <Yexo> yes, see http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/images/grfwiki/1/12/CargoMagic.dot.png 21:43:28 <Yexo> after CB36 the capacity multipliers are applied 21:43:36 <andythenorth> oh poop 21:43:51 <andythenorth> I can't think of a solution :P 21:44:48 <Yexo> don't se mail or goods as default 21:45:04 <andythenorth> there's nothing else I can rely on :( 21:45:21 <Yexo> that is indeed a problem with the current newgrf specs 21:45:25 <andythenorth> this vehicle refits to a limited range 21:45:37 * andythenorth explores cb15 21:46:54 <andythenorth> not ideal 21:47:50 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:50:32 <andythenorth> I can rely on mail being in most games 21:50:37 <andythenorth> it's quite pathological to remove it 21:52:46 *** KillerByte [~daniel@c-24-20-61-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:56:05 <andythenorth> oh FFS 21:56:10 <andythenorth> this makes no sense at all 21:56:58 <supermop> mail? 21:57:02 <supermop> whats going on? 22:00:08 <frosch123> wow, that cargo magic image is only a year old now 22:00:14 <frosch123> i thought it existed way longer :o 22:08:32 *** nidhoegger [~nidhoegge@p4FDE2F3C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:09:07 <nidhoegger> ive got a single question left: im running a dedicated server since today and a few friends and i got a very profitable network. will the money variable get an overrun if it gets too much? 22:09:19 <Yexo> no 22:09:24 <nidhoegger> cool 22:10:05 <Yexo> it can hold up to 9.22e18 and even after that it won't overflow 22:10:15 * andythenorth finds the bugs in his own code 22:13:48 *** nidhoegger [~nidhoegge@p4FDE2F3C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:22:29 <andythenorth> goodnight - and thanks :) 22:22:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:33:34 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-191-22.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:34:19 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-183-095.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... 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