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00:02:30 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-241-69-35.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:02:31 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 00:04:43 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 00:04:57 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.86.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:24:18 *** Tomazim [pelari@lw-resnet-27269.d.port.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 00:26:20 <Tomazim> I am beyond pleased that there is still an OpenTTD community 00:33:26 <planetmaker> many parts of it are sleeping right now, though ;-) 00:36:33 <Tomazim> I am playing some single player hardmode now 00:36:36 <Tomazim> It's so slow :( 00:36:52 <planetmaker> slow? 00:37:47 <Tomazim> The beginning is slow 00:37:55 <Tomazim> i.e hard to make money with a 100k loan 00:37:59 <planetmaker> grant yourself more loan ;-) 00:38:52 <Tomazim> They like me enough for 300k now, so it's picking up 00:45:01 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 01:12:49 <z-MaTRiX> :) 01:14:29 <z-MaTRiX> in original ttd it was lol to make profit from shares of companies, just needed to buy shares before the company requests loan, then when the company has money, just sell the share, and loan will not be shared <; 01:16:16 <Tomazim> Also 01:16:18 <Tomazim> planes 01:17:03 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-181-146.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 01:18:28 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d083c69.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 01:28:25 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d114-78-17-109.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:30:59 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:31:34 *** Pikka [~Figgy@d114-78-17-109.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 01:36:10 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-85-57.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 01:41:37 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-40c3e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:42:56 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:49:01 *** blotek___ [~blotek@aeoi127.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:59:42 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 02:12:11 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-40c3e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 02:15:05 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:17:09 *** enr1x_ [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 02:18:56 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:39:59 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 03:25:51 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-217-248.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 03:30:36 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-153-067.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:59:36 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:8d3e:d0f1:5421:870a] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:06:32 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6AF19.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:22 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 04:23:47 *** Tomazim [pelari@lw-resnet-27269.d.port.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:56 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B73986.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:57:02 *** DorpsGek is now known as Guest16550 05:57:09 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has joined #openttd 05:57:12 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 06:00:50 *** Guest16550 [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:02:40 <Rubidium> ctibor: because good service only increases the chance the production will increase, which means it may very well not increase or even decrease 06:03:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73C3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:14:23 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23178 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Feature [FS#4780]: in-game readme.txt readmer (LordAro) 06:34:05 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:35:24 *** Celestar [~dax@dslb-092-075-044-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 06:35:34 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.86.104] has joined #openttd 06:43:20 <planetmaker> moin Rubidium :-) 06:43:25 <planetmaker> and also all others 06:52:40 *** Celestar [~dax@dslb-092-075-044-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:01:05 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.86.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:10:23 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-181-146.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 07:12:01 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:22:12 *** cowsgomoo [~xren@95.84.18.67] has joined #openttd 07:23:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:23:42 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause2: in the 'large' set scheme - containers? 07:24:30 *** KOPOBA [~xren@95.84.18.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:24:41 <andythenorth> containers are interesting case - IRL they carry near everything, including bulk. In most sets they are piece / express 07:34:34 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:34:57 * planetmaker has found another interesting thing and points at trunk head. HEQS is lacking there ;-) As is FISH and FIRS and ... every NeWGRF ;-) 07:39:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.182.4] has joined #openttd 07:39:55 <andythenorth> planetmaker: all I get is 504 :P 07:40:17 <andythenorth> we've chosen to delete the repo and end the project? :o 07:40:19 <andythenorth> it's 'done' 07:40:20 <andythenorth> ? 07:40:51 <andythenorth> http://vcs.openttd.org/ 07:41:14 <andythenorth> but yes, hg shows me tip, now I have to write text files :D 07:46:09 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 07:52:51 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1ADE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:53:25 <planetmaker> yes, we've got to write readme files now in a ledgible format 07:53:34 <planetmaker> Though, andythenorth, you're doing better than Pikka ;-) 07:53:41 <planetmaker> He supplies no readme whatsoever :-P 07:53:53 <andythenorth> is the new feature announced in forums? 07:53:58 <planetmaker> nor do Georges' newgrfs supply readmes 07:54:02 <planetmaker> no(t yet) 07:54:04 <andythenorth> I think I asked for it in my ponies thread 07:54:24 <planetmaker> I thought of making a short announcement 07:54:58 *** Celestar [~dax@82.113.99.55] has joined #openttd 07:55:15 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, 504 on vcs.openttd.org 07:55:27 <andythenorth> I had 'bananas changelog field' as a pony 07:55:56 <andythenorth> hmm 07:56:20 <andythenorth> frosch got ahead of my idea about mapping equivalent cargo labels :( 07:56:38 <andythenorth> and it's likely that his is a good idea and mine was silly :P 07:59:25 <planetmaker> I haven't yet quite understood what he wrote. My tea water is just boiling... 08:05:25 <andythenorth> I haven't understood all of it either 08:05:41 <andythenorth> my idea was that cargos could map equivalence 08:06:43 <planetmaker> equivalent cargos sounds like identical cargos which should have the same label ;-) 08:06:46 <andythenorth> so if your cargo set introduces bauxite, you could say "copper ore is a known cargo, bauxite should be treated 1:1 like copper ore" 08:07:32 <andythenorth> I think frosch is doing something slightly different 08:07:56 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=57337 <- readme announcement 08:09:10 <andythenorth> planetmaker: so some of my grfs already have readme.txt.... 08:09:14 * andythenorth tests 08:09:43 <Terkhen> good morning 08:09:46 <andythenorth> hola 08:09:56 <Terkhen> nice, readmes can be read :) 08:11:08 <andythenorth> I think I understand frosch's proposal 08:11:15 *** Celestar [~dax@82.113.99.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:12:01 <andythenorth> hmm 08:12:06 <andythenorth> HEQS readme isn't seen :P 08:12:19 <andythenorth> nor FISH 08:12:54 <andythenorth> nvm 08:12:59 <andythenorth> they're not from bananas 08:13:35 <andythenorth> \o/ 08:13:45 <andythenorth> now to make them readable *before* you download :) 08:13:47 <planetmaker> andythenorth, all of your NewGRF have one 08:13:54 <andythenorth> maybe read-before-download is not needed 08:13:59 <planetmaker> but not all are very informative ;-) 08:14:20 <andythenorth> no 08:14:26 <planetmaker> And good point. I have to adjust the 'make install' so that it tars the stuff 08:14:35 <planetmaker> such that the readme viewer works without hassle 08:14:35 <andythenorth> hmm 08:14:38 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:14:56 <andythenorth> should I stop maintaining separate changelog? I would like the change information in the readme 08:15:00 <andythenorth> personally 08:16:06 <planetmaker> Yes, I thought about that, too. Especially with the ingame readme viewer 08:16:15 <planetmaker> except if we add a changelog viewer :-P 08:16:32 <planetmaker> which now would be very simple to add 08:16:52 <planetmaker> good idea? bad idea? 08:17:05 <Terkhen> IMO displaying a single file is enough 08:17:21 <planetmaker> then I have to merge all changelog.txt into the readme :-P 08:17:25 <andythenorth> planetmaker: indifferent idea :) 08:17:46 <andythenorth> changelog should show up before downloading - on a button called "what's new" :P 08:17:48 <planetmaker> would be just another button... 08:18:23 <Terkhen> that's my main problem with showing different text files: it needs buttons :) 08:18:27 <Terkhen> besides that I don't care 08:18:41 <andythenorth> when you know the set, the stuff you want most is "what new stuff do I get?" 08:18:48 <planetmaker> yes 08:18:55 <planetmaker> and the other way around 08:18:59 <andythenorth> but if it's new you want "what does it do" 08:19:05 <planetmaker> if you don't know it, the "what's new" doesn't give a picture 08:19:21 <andythenorth> *short* changelog copied in - latest features / fixes only? 08:19:35 <planetmaker> possibly. for now 08:19:50 <planetmaker> That's probably what I'll employ. The last or last two changelogs 08:20:35 <andythenorth> he 08:20:44 <andythenorth> I now have an insane amount of newgrf work to do :) 08:21:16 <appe> morning. 08:21:26 <Terkhen> hi appe 08:21:35 <appe> whats up? 08:21:46 <Terkhen> 1) Short description of the newgrf 08:21:49 <Terkhen> 2) Short changelog 08:21:54 <Terkhen> 3) Rest of the stuff 08:21:58 <Terkhen> 4) Full changelog 08:24:26 *** Celestar [~dax@82.113.99.55] has joined #openttd 08:25:37 <planetmaker> sounds complicated, Terkhen 08:25:54 <planetmaker> especially as bananas supports a changelog.txt 08:25:59 <Terkhen> it works on the principle of tl;dr :P 08:26:13 <planetmaker> of what? 08:26:18 <Terkhen> too long; didn't read 08:26:24 <planetmaker> ah :-P 08:27:09 <planetmaker> I mean... OpenGFX' changelog has 458 lines at the moment 08:27:15 <planetmaker> which is too long to read :-P 08:27:31 <planetmaker> (attention span of 20 lines or so :-P ) 08:27:53 <andythenorth> tl;dr is pretty good 08:28:04 <Terkhen> 4) should go in a different file then 08:28:46 <planetmaker> yes, that's all I wanted to say: keep 4) in the file as now. But make sure 2) is there 08:28:53 <andythenorth> works for me 08:28:54 <planetmaker> I guess we all agree but didn't notice :-P 08:29:00 <andythenorth> one more c+p before release :P 08:29:15 <planetmaker> shall I script that, andythenorth ? ;-) 08:29:36 <planetmaker> like {{new_changelog}} 08:29:41 <andythenorth> you might go mad on edge cases 08:29:54 <andythenorth> unless we fragment the changelog 08:30:06 <planetmaker> of course. I'll require a certain changelog format then. In the way I use it all the time ;-) 08:30:27 <planetmaker> Version 0.2.1 08:30:27 <planetmaker> ============= 08:30:34 <andythenorth> if you do it I'll try it 08:30:38 <planetmaker> ^^ pretty unique and identifiable 08:30:47 <andythenorth> if I break it, I won't ask for support :P 08:31:02 <andythenorth> c+p is not too painful, releases are not frequent 08:31:03 <planetmaker> but it's not too high on my agenda right now, tbh. But I'll make a note 08:31:47 <andythenorth> so much to do :o 08:32:05 <andythenorth> if someone fixed newgrf vehicle smoke, I think my head might actually explode 08:33:16 <planetmaker> I'm afraid we can't allow that, andythenorth. 08:33:24 <planetmaker> a) who'll clean up all the debris? 08:33:31 <planetmaker> b) your head is better used where it is now 08:33:34 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-177-230.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:33:40 <planetmaker> --> no new smoke now :-P 08:33:43 <andythenorth> meh 08:34:03 <andythenorth> it's such a dumb situation, the patch was added, but is not usable for ships :) 08:34:17 <andythenorth> it's extra painful to see that it's in the spec now :P 08:35:32 <andythenorth> also....I'm thinking that Eddi|zuHause2 might have an unarguable point about two props for refittable labels 08:35:46 <andythenorth> I think an exclude prop is wrong, but maybe the way it has to be done 08:39:14 <andythenorth> lacks elegance :( 08:39:37 <dihedral> greetings y'all 08:40:18 <Terkhen> hi dihedral 08:40:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:40:58 <dihedral> vcs.openttd.org seems to be down <- TrueBrain, Rubidium ;-) 08:41:05 <dihedral> or whoever takes care 08:41:21 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:41:21 <dihedral> good morning Terkhen 08:41:26 <dihedral> :-) 08:41:31 <planetmaker> helo dihedral 08:41:37 <dihedral> and you too :-) 08:41:45 <planetmaker> use hg.openttd.org 08:42:10 <dihedral> interesting :-) 08:42:12 <dihedral> thank you 08:43:09 <dihedral> was interested in looking at the ingame readme viewer :-) 08:43:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.187.26] has joined #openttd 08:43:52 <Celestar> morning :D 08:44:17 <appe> whats vcs and hg? 08:45:22 <Celestar> how the hell do I git add all the changed files without using some damn awk magic? 08:46:20 <dihedral> does it now work on a folder? 08:46:28 <dihedral> or recursively 08:47:26 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-181-146.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 08:48:31 <Celestar> git add -u seems to do the trick 08:50:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.182.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:50:32 <andythenorth> bbl 08:50:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:53:43 <Celestar> I'm still amazed how fast the goddamn code is. 08:56:02 <Celestar> on my comp, the tile loop takes 87 nanoseconds per tile. 08:59:21 <Celestar> hmmmmm. 09:00:04 <Celestar> michi_cc: if the "tile stack" at one place has independent tile loop procs, couldn't we put them into seperate threads? 09:01:03 <planetmaker> would it remain deterministically? 09:01:13 <Celestar> that's what I'm wondering. 09:01:20 <planetmaker> Think of industry, airport, object or house tiles querying the adjacent tiles 09:01:26 <Celestar> planetmaker: yeah, adjacent. 09:01:34 <planetmaker> +- 0x0F 09:01:39 <Celestar> planetmaker: I'm think of threading it purely in the "Z" direction 09:03:13 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 09:04:01 * dihedral is wondering if the readme viewer could be used to display a 'rules' text from a server one would like to join :-P 09:04:11 <dihedral> or if that would not be total overkill 09:04:35 <planetmaker> that's not a readme viewer :-P 09:04:49 <planetmaker> Do you agree to the TOS [ ] yes [ ] no 09:06:05 <planetmaker> *<font size = 3>You agree to pay a fine of 50⬠for the first kick and a administration fee of 500⬠should you violate the rules and this violation result in a ban.</font>Please fill in credit card details here: .... 09:07:09 <Terkhen> :D 09:13:13 <Celestar> planetmaker: the main question is, what happens if a tile is deleted during the Loop processing? 09:16:42 <planetmaker> I'm not entirely familiar with the involved loops: The tile loop only visits certain tiles per tick, right, like every 1/256 tiles? 09:16:57 <planetmaker> i.e. every tick some tiles? 09:17:12 <Celestar> planetmaker: every tick 1/256th of the map. 09:17:45 <Celestar> hm. 09:17:46 <planetmaker> Then we have to make sure that those tiles cannot access eachother 09:17:50 <planetmaker> which is... difficult 09:18:06 <Celestar> I still can't follow :P 09:18:06 <planetmaker> as e.g. deleting a house can change population of a town which again can be read by tiles MUCH more distant 09:18:29 <Celestar> planetmaker: with newmap, there are multiple tiles at a single location. 09:18:42 <planetmaker> yes. 09:18:50 <Celestar> planetmaker: if this location is visited during the tile loop, each of the "subtiles" has its tile loop run. 09:18:55 <planetmaker> got me confused :-) 09:19:03 <planetmaker> not x/y processing parallel. only z 09:19:10 <Celestar> planetmaker: those tile loops are (possibly) independent from one another. 09:19:12 <Celestar> planetmaker: yes :D 09:19:16 <planetmaker> depends on whether they can access the previous state or not 09:19:30 <planetmaker> if they can: difficult 09:19:36 <planetmaker> or rather: the killer 09:19:48 <Celestar> the previous state? you mean the state of the "lower/upper" tiles? 09:19:56 <planetmaker> yes 09:20:04 <Celestar> from all I have seen: no. 09:20:28 <planetmaker> it could be threaded then, possibly, if the answer is "no and never will" ;-) 09:20:43 <Celestar> the main concern I have is what happens if the tile loop removes a tile from the stack. 09:21:03 <Celestar> is the vector we store the stuff in thread-safe? :P 09:21:24 <dihedral> why would the tile loop remove a tile?? 09:21:38 <planetmaker> dihedral, removing the subway 09:21:41 <Celestar> dihedral: removal of the last tree on a tile. 09:21:55 <Celestar> dihedral: then MP_CLEAR + MP_TREE would become MP_CLEAR 09:21:57 <planetmaker> how would that remove the tile, Celestar ? 09:22:16 <Celestar> planetmaker: it would remove the "tree" part. 09:22:33 <planetmaker> hm, I see. I wasn't aware of that kind of "level" 09:22:39 <dihedral> heh 09:23:08 <Celestar> planetmaker: well according to michi_cc, it's experimental anyway. 09:23:37 <dihedral> lets have it committed to trunk then :-P 09:23:50 <planetmaker> and call it openttdpatch 09:23:56 <dihedral> :-D 09:24:30 <Celestar> rofl 09:24:48 <Celestar> anyway. The removal of the last tree is the only thing that can remove a tile during the tile loop. 09:25:11 <dihedral> how come? 09:25:19 <dihedral> what if the tile only contains a building? 09:25:44 <Celestar> hm. 09:26:29 <Celestar> the removal would need to be thread safe. and I'm not sure it can be. 09:26:39 <Eddi|zuHause> how about: memcopy the entire map at start of tile loop, lock that copy and use it for all further read accesses. fire up the whole tileloop as one thread per tile, and write changes to the original map. after joining all threads, remove the copy, and redirect read access back to the original map 09:27:04 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: the read access isn't the problem. 09:27:06 <Celestar> this is: 09:27:17 <Celestar> you have, at one place, a MP_CLEAR and an MP_TREE. 09:27:30 <Celestar> MP_CLEAR has a .. bit that sais that another tile follows. 09:27:37 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: fixed; tracd decided to segfault over and over and over and over again :) He likes segfaulting :) 09:27:42 <Celestar> if MP_TREE is removed, MP_CLEAR needs to be changed. 09:28:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: yes, but if you have a locked copy of the original map, every other tile doesn't care if these two tiles change. 09:28:45 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: the question is: how long does a memcpy of the entire map take? 09:29:09 <Celestar> if this is more than a maybe two-digit figure of microseconds, it will not help. 09:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: all tiles other than the one processed currently have the state from _before_ the tile loop was run 09:29:46 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:30:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue about nanoseconds 09:30:51 <Celestar> <Sheldon>a nanosecond is 1e-9 of a second </Sheldon> 09:31:33 <planetmaker> Celestar, call it MP_VOID then 09:31:43 <planetmaker> and leave it in place 09:32:02 <Celestar> hm... 09:32:23 <Celestar> and then have a cleanup loop run less often that does GC? 09:33:24 <planetmaker> kinda 09:33:33 <planetmaker> it might also just be re-populated 09:33:46 <planetmaker> so the "surface" layer might not need deletion at all 09:33:58 <planetmaker> it's not like we are short on memory really 09:37:13 <Celestar> first question is ... how much does it gain :P 09:38:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that's something that cannot possibly be answered from an abstract point of view :p 09:38:55 <Celestar> hence I'm coding it :P 09:39:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the same approach might be taken by pathfinding, but i think that needs some further refactoring first 09:40:04 <planetmaker> the copying the whole map is expensive. 09:41:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but you can't copy only parts of the map, because the tile loop really touches all of the map at once 09:45:58 <planetmaker> well 1/256 at once 09:46:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. spread like cancer throughout the whole map 09:46:37 <planetmaker> yes. Actually there was recently a patch which made that a) random and b) faster 09:46:50 <planetmaker> random as in not regular 09:46:56 <planetmaker> not really random 09:48:08 <peter1138> morning again 09:49:02 <Terkhen> hi peter1138 09:55:21 <planetmaker> salut peter1138 10:01:37 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-177-230.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 10:08:52 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20111008085652]] 10:10:20 *** blotek___ [~blotek@dbq26.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 10:15:48 <Celestar> hacking threads into this is ... hacky :P 10:17:41 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:20:28 <Eddi|zuHause> which is why nobody has done it yet :p 10:20:58 <Celestar> rofl 10:21:10 * Celestar starts over :P 10:27:39 <Eddi|zuHause> "Equivalent cargo labels" <-- now where do i remember that from? :p 10:45:21 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-2-96-30-247.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 10:45:54 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 10:49:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:51:25 <peter1138> i'm so hacky, hacky hacky hacky... 10:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you are so old, old old old... 10:55:51 <MNIM> hacky wacky jacky! 10:59:05 * andythenorth seems to have high boredom threshold :P 11:02:27 <andythenorth> gah 11:02:35 <andythenorth> I find myself agreeing almost 100% with MB 11:03:15 <Terkhen> so... this week long discussion is nearing a conclusion? :P 11:03:40 <andythenorth> it needs at least one decision to be made 11:03:50 <andythenorth> wrt explicit exclusion prop for labels 11:04:03 <andythenorth> I don't want it 11:04:14 <andythenorth> but if we only did what I want, it would be a poor world :P 11:04:44 <andythenorth> my opinion on that prop has developed as far as 'meh' and 'shrug' 11:05:05 <andythenorth> as long as the XOR goes away and we get a list of included props as indices to CTT, I'm ecstatic 11:05:37 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 11:06:57 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:19 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 11:07:43 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 11:11:01 <peter1138> i still don't get Eddi|zuHause's objects 11:11:37 <Yexo> wasn't it just about the amount of work? 11:12:02 <peter1138> +why 11:12:08 <peter1138> hmm 11:12:08 <peter1138> no 11:12:14 <peter1138> i still don't get Eddi|zuHause's objection 11:12:15 <peter1138> yes :) 11:12:27 <andythenorth> he wants to be able to use classes 11:12:29 <Yexo> your set contains 300 engines. You learn of a new cargo type ABCD and want to add graphics support for that in one wagon. 11:12:40 <andythenorth> explicitly excluding things in the CTT makes work 11:12:42 <andythenorth> he might be right 11:12:49 <andythenorth> it's not elegant though :P 11:12:56 <Yexo> Now you have to add it to the CTT, which in turns means that for every wagon you either add it explicitely to the "include list" or don't include it 11:13:15 <andythenorth> he should create an internal define in his set, which composes a set of n labels 11:13:30 <andythenorth> 'groups' which are private to his set 11:13:48 <andythenorth> does the world end if the same index appears twice in the list for hte refit prop 11:13:52 <andythenorth> ? 11:14:05 <peter1138> yes 11:14:30 <peter1138> you'll need computers able to store 2 in a single bit ;) 11:14:55 * andythenorth doesn't want ottd to cause end of world 11:15:02 <jonty-comp> quantum openttd! 11:15:07 <TrueBrain> 2012 takes care of that, no worries 11:15:14 <peter1138> conty-jomp! 11:15:21 <andythenorth> I hate the exclude property, but if it gets this issue moved to a conclusion, there would be happy people 11:15:43 <jonty-comp> professor bigglesworth! 11:15:52 <peter1138> doing the exclude property is actually a bit easier to cod e;) 11:16:32 <andythenorth> do that then :P 11:16:36 <peter1138> does Eddi|zuHause use raw nfo, preprocesser nfo, or nml? 11:16:47 <peter1138> andythenorth, i don't want it though ;p 11:16:51 <andythenorth> I'll define private groups in my sets for excludes :P 11:16:54 <Eddi|zuHause> worse. a google spreadsheet 11:16:56 <andythenorth> find a way to make it optional 11:17:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and a python script 11:17:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that is then generating preprocessed nml 11:17:20 <peter1138> shouldn't be much hassle then :p 11:28:08 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-85-57.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:34:23 <Celestar> bah :P 11:35:58 <Celestar> stupid friggen threading :P 11:37:09 <peter1138> :) 11:37:29 <Celestar> wtb [new brain 11:37:31 <Celestar> ] 11:38:07 <Celestar> maybe I should first not use our implementation 11:38:14 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-2-96-30-247.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:58 <Celestar> but try it with pthread directly 11:44:36 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: the point is that adding graphics to one wagon needs changes in totally unrelated places 11:45:28 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:48:47 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: but you've changed the context of your set 11:48:59 <andythenorth> your set has known and unknown cargos, and by adding one, you change that 11:49:09 <andythenorth> so now you need to tell your set what to do with that 11:49:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's still bad from a coding point of view 11:49:38 <andythenorth> writing code isn't bad 11:49:45 <andythenorth> letting possible errors pass silently is bad 11:50:11 <andythenorth> it's bad that when you add a parameter to a function, you might have to update every single place that's called 11:50:24 <andythenorth> why not just auto-magic that? 11:50:29 <andythenorth> but it's not how it's done 11:50:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i can add optional parameters to a function, and only use it in places that actually need it 11:51:24 <andythenorth> I tried to figure out a way to make this optional 11:51:49 <Yexo> andythenorth: making it optional is easy. Just go back to the two properties, one include list and one exclude list 11:52:02 <andythenorth> yup 11:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause> that's exactly what i said 11:52:09 <andythenorth> which is why I think Eddi|zuHause might be right 11:52:16 <andythenorth> see above somewhere ;) 11:52:42 <Yexo> one advantage of the single property is that as soon as everybody starts using it changing cargoclasses for known cargoes doesn't break those vehicle sets 11:53:16 <andythenorth> Yexo: it doesn't 'break' them in either case 11:53:17 <Eddi|zuHause> which we can't do anyway, because of backwards compatibility 11:53:22 <andythenorth> but in one case the spec is a huge mess 11:53:29 <andythenorth> and in the other it's explicit 11:53:36 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: that's theory, you can't influence everyone not to do it 11:53:47 <Yexo> ie even george changed cargoclasses of some cargos in ECS not too long ago 11:54:02 <andythenorth> MB made class change requests 11:54:05 <andythenorth> no-one is immune 11:54:06 <Eddi|zuHause> "Dec 31, 2010" 11:54:32 <andythenorth> with the exclusion property, here is my problem 11:54:36 <andythenorth> I have cargo 'foo' 11:54:42 <Eddi|zuHause> but changing newgrf cargos is less problematic than changing original cargos 11:54:48 <andythenorth> it's not in my include or exclude list. Does my vehicle carry 'foo' ? 11:54:52 * Celestar is attempting to understand Foundations :P 11:54:58 <Yexo> andythenorth: depends on cargoclasses 11:55:02 <andythenorth> I have no fricking idea if my vehicle carries 'foo', but it's in my CTT 11:55:07 <Yexo> you can't plan for that, since you didn't know about foo when you created your set 11:55:16 <andythenorth> but it's in my CTT - so I know about it 11:55:35 <Elukka> http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/5/6/0/2560.1269886484.jpg 11:55:35 <Yexo> than you should hav added it to either the include or exlucde list if you wanted to be sure 11:55:40 <Elukka> that is a pretty amazing station 11:55:46 <andythenorth> but that's not what Eddi|zuHause wants to do 11:55:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: imagine a container wagon. why should it know whether it carries "foo", when the open wagon displays special graphics for "foo"? 11:56:02 <Yexo> it all boils down to: will cargoclasses get changed again, and do we care if that means some vehicles temporary transport some "wrong" cargoes 11:56:02 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause wants to be sure on the basis of classes - unless I misrepresent him 11:56:32 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, gtg 11:56:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it shouldn't know. But vehicle set authors think it should :P 11:57:28 <Yexo> andythenorth: that was not the point. If you want to make sure whether your vehicle can refit foo you can do that either way (just include list or both include and exclude list). With just an include list you're forced to let the vehicle know whether it can refit foo 11:57:37 <andythenorth> yes 11:57:47 <Celestar> do we have some link to decoded foundation sprites? 11:57:49 <andythenorth> the single prop is the 'correct' route imho 11:58:03 <andythenorth> but it doesn't meet the needs of vehicle set authors who want to avoid writing code 11:58:08 <Yexo> <Elukka> that is a pretty amazing station <- Celestar somewhere in that repo :p 11:58:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: in the opengfx repo? 11:58:16 <Yexo> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/opengfx <- ehm, there 11:58:18 <Celestar> Yexo: rofl :P 11:58:24 <Celestar> thanks 11:58:53 <Elukka> whut 11:59:08 <Celestar> hm. 11:59:18 <andythenorth> Yexo: exclude property: +1 or -1 ? 11:59:30 <planetmaker> Celestar, OpenGFX has them decoded 11:59:37 <Celestar> that's a shitload of parameters you need to store the (slope+foundation) in a tile. 11:59:37 <Yexo> no big opinion either way 11:59:55 <andythenorth> me neither 12:00:23 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 12:01:17 <andythenorth> I guess it gets decided by whoever turns up with working code 12:01:17 <Elukka> http://www.marklin.com/tech/images/layouts/ho-era5.jpg 12:01:27 <Elukka> are those passenger coaches refit for cargo in the upper left O_o 12:06:18 <Eddi|zuHause> never seen those before 12:06:40 <Eddi|zuHause> but could be repainted old mail/baggage cars 12:08:58 <Elukka> something like that probably 12:09:09 <Elukka> i've never even seen the models before 12:09:47 <Elukka> and that talgo trainset there is weird as hell, but that's talgo for you 12:10:10 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-85-57.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:02 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-85-57.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:15:09 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d083c69.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:35:24 <Celestar> aren't those ICE cars a short? 12:35:39 <Celestar> they don't look like 25m to me 12:36:29 <planetmaker> indeed, they look short compared to the heads 12:45:07 *** arie- [5597f912@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 12:45:42 <arie-> I've got a possible bug, but if I remember correctly this one has been mentioned before: 12:46:20 <arie-> strange track reservations: there's a possible path for a train but it just won't take it 12:46:31 <arie-> possibly happened during track reconstructions 12:46:49 <arie-> I think I've seen the issue before on the forums but cannot find it 12:47:56 <arie-> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=54399&hilit=track+reservation this one maybe 12:48:06 <arie-> I'll add a post to that one with a save game 12:49:23 <Celestar> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/4017_Backhead_20040426.jpg 12:49:27 <Celestar> now this is a "user interface" 12:49:43 <peter1138> heh 12:49:49 <peter1138> needs tooltips 12:50:18 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:50:46 <Celestar> yep 12:50:54 <Celestar> hm. 12:51:29 <andythenorth> needs a bigger GUI :P 12:51:37 <Celestar> lol yeah 12:51:39 <Celestar> storing all 4 corners of a tile is not sufficient to define the configuration of the tile. 12:51:50 <andythenorth> it should be made in squirrel so anyone can remake it as they see fit 12:51:53 <peter1138> oh? 12:52:06 <Celestar> peter1138: for example, half-tile-slopes. 12:52:07 <arie-> Ok, got two autosaves, two minutes apart. 12:52:17 <peter1138> oh 12:52:24 <Celestar> peter1138: those even give a headache what to store in two of the corners. 12:52:25 <peter1138> magic voodoo 12:52:34 <Celestar> because it's undefined. 12:52:40 <peter1138> slope with rail on top :S 12:53:07 <Celestar> yeah 12:53:44 <peter1138> are you storing it as a slope value, i.e. in 5 bits? 12:53:54 <Celestar> or just store the north corner and define the "half tile slope" as separate Slope value 12:54:03 <Celestar> peter1138: yeah, but currently I'm using 8 bits for simplicity. 12:54:06 <peter1138> that's where i'm going 12:54:16 <Celestar> "great minds think alike" ? :P 12:54:31 <peter1138> can you have half-tile stuff on steep slopes though? 12:54:38 <Celestar> yes. 12:54:47 <Celestar> even two half-tiles :P 12:55:00 <Celestar> but theoretically, with cliffs .... 12:55:15 <Celestar> there is no clear definition how many levels those two half-tiles are apart, is there? 12:55:47 <peter1138> ooh, a graphical bug :D 12:56:03 <Celestar> I'm not sure it's only graphical tbh :P 12:56:19 <peter1138> no, i mean in trunk :) 12:56:22 <Celestar> oh :d 12:56:24 <Celestar> where 12:57:52 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/halftile.png 12:58:20 <peter1138> i suspect it doesn't matter though ;) 13:00:00 <Celestar> wtf is that from 13:00:39 <Celestar> well anyway. 13:00:40 <peter1138> hmm? 13:00:44 <Celestar> that line. 13:00:47 <peter1138> it's the lower foundation creeping through 13:00:58 <Celestar> oh right :D 13:01:01 <Celestar> ol 13:01:02 <Celestar> lol 13:01:16 <peter1138> possibly the wrong sprite selected :) 13:01:33 <peter1138> i don't remember everything about all the foundation sprites though :) 13:02:02 <Celestar> neither do I 13:02:04 <Celestar> anyway. 13:02:14 <Celestar> logically, the tile consists of 4 parts. 13:02:43 <Celestar> 4 triangles, with two corners in adjacent corners of the tile, and the third corner in the centre of the tile 13:07:16 <Celestar> with those 4, it would be easy. 13:07:25 <Celestar> ... theoretically :P 13:11:11 <Celestar> halftiles are a pita 13:21:19 *** Fuco [dota.keys@server.dasnet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:30:19 *** Fuco [dota.keys@server.dasnet.cz] has joined #openttd 13:33:37 <Celestar> bah dis sucks. 13:34:02 * Celestar has to rethink terraforming completely 13:36:46 <Noldo> howcome? 13:41:12 <Celestar> if you wanna be able to terraform cliffs/foundations, the GUI needs some changing :P 13:43:56 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest16582 13:43:56 *** Guest16582 [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:43:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:44:04 <z-MaTRiX> hi 13:54:18 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-177-230.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 13:54:41 <Celestar> $ ls -alh bin/openttd 13:54:42 <Celestar> -rwxrwxr-x 1 vici vici 65M 2011-11-10 14:55 bin/openttd 13:54:43 <Celestar> lol 13:55:26 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@4.80-203-77.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 14:00:37 <peter1138> -rwxr-xr-x 1 petern petern 41M Nov 10 11:48 bin/openttd 14:00:44 <peter1138> big but not that big 14:00:50 <SpComb> debugs? 14:00:56 <peter1138> yeah 14:01:04 <peter1138> debug & profiling 14:01:12 <SpComb> lzma loader :) 14:04:37 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@4.80-203-77.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928134238]] 14:08:50 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:12 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:09:25 *** Tintinfan [~Bruce@host-78-150-186-72.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 14:10:23 <Celestar> http://www.dropmocks.com/mhzm- 14:10:49 <Tintinfan> hello 14:11:07 <Celestar> cliffs are hell. 14:11:41 <Tintinfan> ? 14:12:17 <Noldo> you are not going to like where that leads 14:13:55 <peter1138> heh 14:14:02 <peter1138> looks cool ;) 14:14:40 <Celestar> yeah. 14:14:46 <Celestar> peter1138: but the Z drawing order is fucked. 14:15:32 <Celestar> plus the engines can jump over cliffs :D 14:15:46 <Noldo> well naturally 14:16:01 <Belugas> hello 14:16:40 <Celestar> reload the link 14:16:43 <Celestar> and open cliff2 :) 14:18:21 <Celestar> plus .. er I lack a user interface :P I just manually modded the map array :D 14:18:22 <peter1138> is it? 14:18:24 <peter1138> yj 14:18:26 <peter1138> hmm 14:18:36 <Celestar> peter1138: ? 14:18:41 <peter1138> z order fucked? 14:18:56 <peter1138> oh 14:18:59 <Celestar> peter1138: the wagons should be partially hidden 14:19:04 <peter1138> yes 14:19:09 <peter1138> that was never a problem :) 14:19:19 <Celestar> no it wasn't :D 14:19:25 <peter1138> yeah, vehicles are always drawn after the landscape. hmm. 14:19:40 <peter1138> at least, i think 14:19:46 <Celestar> how is it done with trees? 14:20:11 <Celestar> because trees can hide vehicles 14:20:15 <peter1138> landscape then all objects 14:20:21 <Celestar> aha. 14:20:30 <Celestar> so for cliffs to be any useful, that has to be changed ..... 14:21:05 <peter1138> AddSortableSpriteToDraw() 14:21:05 * Belugas cleans his glasses and stares again at Celestar's cliffs, speahless 14:21:32 <peter1138> i suspect that adding landscape to the sortable list would be another performance hit :( 14:22:00 <Celestar> I guess so as well. 14:22:15 <Celestar> Belugas: don't get too excited, i still have no UI to make them :P 14:22:21 <andythenorth> cliffs :D 14:22:22 <andythenorth> insanity 14:22:37 <andythenorth> just make bridges with filled in sides? 14:22:37 <andythenorth> :P 14:22:44 <Celestar> rofl 14:22:52 <Celestar> bridges .. don't exist 14:23:09 <Celestar> peter1138: the question is .. how much of a performance hit ... 14:23:24 <andythenorth> draw tunnel sprites if another route passes under your 'cliffs' bridge 14:23:25 <andythenorth> :P 14:23:42 * Celestar pokes andythenorth with a rusty pole :P 14:23:48 <andythenorth> he 14:23:59 * andythenorth is a big fan of doing things wrong 14:24:06 <andythenorth> except cargo refits 14:24:14 <Belugas> Celestar, who cares, it's the possiblity that such a feature can be done, no matter how it will be done in a gui (which , in fact, will never win approval of all players...) 14:24:25 <Celestar> peter1138: doesn't GTTS return whether a vehicle can actually enter a tile? 14:24:38 <Celestar> Belugas: true. 14:24:46 <peter1138> Celestar, allegedly 14:24:50 <Celestar> Belugas: but this can be yet another option to disable. 14:24:51 <Celestar> peter1138: well. 14:24:55 <peter1138> Celestar, you'll want to add a z parameter to it 14:24:59 <Celestar> peter1138: next problem. This needs to be z-aware :P 14:25:12 <peter1138> i think i may have done that once 14:25:24 <peter1138> when i was working on my original bridges over stuff patch 14:25:29 <Celestar> me too :P 14:25:37 <Celestar> for ... some patch I cannot remember 14:25:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 14:25:59 <Belugas> the initial newmap, maybe? 14:26:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:26:16 <Celestar> possibly 14:26:36 <Celestar> anyway I think that patch is 1) now useless, 2) lost on some of my backup disks at mom's :P 14:26:57 <peter1138> yes 14:27:00 <peter1138> pre-c++ 14:27:40 <Celestar> hm. 14:27:47 <Celestar> can't build a tunnel inside a cliff either :P 14:28:06 <Celestar> because there isn't a "tile" to end it :D 14:29:05 <peter1138> :) 14:31:10 <peter1138> Celestar, viewport.cpp:23057 14:31:19 <peter1138> + AddSortableSpriteToDraw(image, pal, x, y, 16, 16, 0, z, false, extra_offs_x, extra_offs_y, 0, sub); 14:31:23 <peter1138> + return; 14:31:26 <peter1138> something like that :p 14:31:45 <Celestar> 23057? 14:31:50 <peter1138> errm 14:31:52 <peter1138> 482 14:31:53 <peter1138> lol 14:31:58 <peter1138> i read the revision, not the line :p 14:32:03 <Celestar> rofl :D 14:32:12 <Celestar> I can't do that yet, because saveload will fuck the cliff. 14:32:18 <peter1138> it's in AddTileSpriteToDraw() basically 14:32:23 <peter1138> ok :) 14:32:59 <peter1138> ^B is ... different with that 14:33:14 <peter1138> the world is filled with bounding boxes ;) 14:34:01 <Celestar> ^B 14:34:03 <Celestar> ? 14:34:09 <peter1138> view bounding boxes 14:34:22 <Celestar> ah 14:34:42 <peter1138> hmm, bounding boxes might be wrong for slopes... 14:35:35 * Celestar thinks cliffs open not one, but several can-o-worms 14:35:43 <peter1138> yup 14:38:33 <Celestar> 1) We need a new UI to change individual corners. 14:38:41 <Celestar> 2) Z Order problem in the viewport 14:38:48 <Celestar> 3) Missing Z information in GTTS 14:38:58 <TinoDidriksen> ...give in and just go 3D. 14:39:13 <Celestar> TinoDidriksen: and that helps exactly how? :P 14:39:54 <Celestar> I think 2) is a minimal problem other than performance 14:40:31 <Celestar> but BBs might need adaption 14:41:07 <Belugas> 3D.. the new buzz word... after XML ;) 14:41:14 <SpComb> 3D XML 14:41:44 <SpComb> plaintext is too 2D 14:41:49 <Belugas> with hazarai 14:42:05 <SpComb> instead, we store the XML nodes in a sparse voxel space 14:42:33 <Celestar> rofl 14:43:19 <Celestar> also, I'm not sure how difficult add Z to the GTTS stuff is. 14:43:44 <Celestar> .... 14:43:49 <Celestar> wtb [grammar] 14:45:21 <Celestar> how is it solved with bridges .... 14:45:31 <andythenorth> hmm 14:45:49 <Yexo> as you said yourself, bridges don't exist 14:45:59 <Yexo> so vehicles on the bridge are on either end of the bridge 14:46:09 * andythenorth remembers an idea about terraforming 14:46:23 <Celestar> Yexo: nah I meant something else. 14:46:35 <Yexo> the drawing order? or what 14:47:06 <andythenorth> There's only so much mud in the world. If you want more mud, you have to take it from somewhere. If you want less mud, you have to put it somewhere. 14:47:11 <Celestar> sec 14:47:11 <andythenorth> would make small maps interesting 14:47:14 <andythenorth> hmm 14:47:26 <Celestar> haha 14:47:32 * andythenorth suspects that small maps would end up flat at height level 8 :P 14:48:17 <Celestar> Yexo: same link as above, last file (Bridge) 14:49:10 <Yexo> the vehicle suddenly appears at the bridge ramp? 14:49:16 <Celestar> no it doesn't 14:49:19 <Celestar> I'm wondering why 14:49:24 <Celestar> apparently it's not Z based :P 14:50:00 <Celestar> hmm. 14:50:07 <Celestar> it goes purely by direction 14:50:22 <Yexo> see GetTileTrackStatus_TunnelBridge 14:50:32 <Yexo> you can only enter the tile from one direction 14:51:32 <Celestar> yeah 14:51:38 <Celestar> I was faster ^ ^ 14:51:38 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:e3:6096:592c:9d52] has joined #openttd 14:51:41 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:51:49 <Celestar> and I think I know where I last try to use z awareness.... 14:51:54 <Celestar> when doing cbh :P 14:53:16 <Celestar> s/try/tried 15:03:33 <Celestar> bbl :) 15:03:34 *** Celestar [~dax@82.113.99.55] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:07:59 <peter1138> yeah, sometimes it just knows :p 15:13:23 <z-MaTRiX> hi :) 15:14:44 <z-MaTRiX> wanted to try out haskell programming, but i got demotivated when the library install 'cabal' thing attempted to count the spaces in the config file before the options (unsuccessfully) 15:32:47 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:01:43 <andythenorth> it's gone all quiet :o 16:02:06 <z-MaTRiX> nahm 16:02:30 <z-MaTRiX> so why does openttd not have an fps meter? 16:02:53 <Yexo> because it's pointless? 16:02:56 <z-MaTRiX> rendering time/processing time statistics?M 16:03:18 <z-MaTRiX> sure its statistical... 16:03:57 <z-MaTRiX> or might tell you how slow is your pc for Openttd 16:03:59 <Yexo> well, same answer as always: nobody has been interested enough to code it 16:04:07 <z-MaTRiX> aham i see :) 16:04:27 <__ln___> seriously, what purpose would such a meter serve? 16:04:47 <z-MaTRiX> __ln___<< informational 16:05:20 <z-MaTRiX> also you could check your overall performance if you upgrade some functions 16:06:17 <Yexo> that is way too unreliable if you actually use a gui (which you need to see such a fps meter) 16:06:25 <Yexo> we have profiling and the null blitter for that 16:07:34 <z-MaTRiX> Yexo<< sure i know SDL forces a waitvretrace, but it is still possible to check the processing time, and rendering time seperately ;) 16:08:01 <Yexo> that is compeltely besides the point 16:08:06 <z-MaTRiX> btw im making friends with mutexes right now to be able to update screen asnychronously 16:08:26 <glx> we just disable display when profinling 16:08:50 <z-MaTRiX> hmm well thats a solution for testing 16:18:43 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-40c3e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:20:19 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: have you got classes all figured out yet? :) 16:34:33 *** Tintinfan [~Bruce@host-78-150-186-72.as13285.net] has left #openttd [] 16:39:47 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 16:40:35 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-242-68-207.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 16:41:34 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 17:04:43 *** SpBot [spbot@skrblz.fixme.fi] has joined #openttd 17:05:10 *** SpBot_ [spbot@skrblz.fixme.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:04 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 17:19:20 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest16606 17:19:21 *** Guest16606 [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:19:21 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:22:35 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest16608 17:22:35 *** Guest16608 [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:28:35 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-f2c6e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 17:47:21 *** Elu [Elukka@78-27-85-57.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:51:08 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 17:52:38 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-85-57.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:55:07 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23179 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use some tooltips that already existed (monoid) 17:58:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23180 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Cleanup: remove traces of having to double click on the NewGRF for changing the parameters 17:59:57 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23181 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Cleanup: remove some unused strings (monoid) 18:01:19 *** LordAro [5684196d@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:01:34 <LordAro> evening 18:01:59 <Terkhen> hi LordAro 18:03:06 <LordAro> @commit 23178 18:03:06 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Commit by rubidium :: r23178 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2011-11-10 06:15:03 UTC) 18:03:07 <DorpsGek> LordAro: -Feature [FS#4780]: in-game readme.txt readmer (LordAro) 18:03:12 <LordAro> O.o 18:03:14 <LordAro> :D 18:03:36 <Terkhen> :P 18:05:48 <Terkhen> what are you going to code now? ;) 18:05:57 <Eddi|zuHause> <Celestar> aren't those ICE cars a short? <-- they almost fit into TTD scale then :p 18:06:03 * Terkhen hopes for something way more scary 18:07:03 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23182 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Feature: allow translatable readme files 18:07:03 <LordAro> i dunno, i had some ideas while making the readme viewer, but i've forgotten them :L 18:07:25 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 18:08:06 <Terkhen> it's late for making them translatable I guess 18:08:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23183 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: merge BRIBE_FAILED and BRIBE_FAILED_2 messages (monoid) 18:08:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23184 /trunk/src/lang/ (59 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: remove the removed strings from the translations as well 18:10:37 <LordAro> i think i'll probably have a go at readme viewers for AIs and base sets, etc 18:10:41 <LordAro> should be easier :) 18:11:30 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 18:11:48 <Eddi|zuHause> CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23180 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Cleanup: remove traces of having to double click on the NewGRF for changing the parameters <-- i really would like this behaviour back... 18:12:14 <Yexo> currently double-click moves a grf from active<>inactive, right? 18:12:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 18:12:25 <Yexo> I don't see how that is compatible with "open parameter window on double-click" 18:12:36 <Eddi|zuHause> a GUI setting 18:13:06 <LordAro> yay! moar settings :) 18:13:10 <Rubidium> okay... I should make more cryptic messages 18:13:21 <Terkhen> :) 18:24:28 <andythenorth> LordAro: \o/ 18:24:40 <LordAro> :) 18:25:54 <LordAro> ty, although i would estimate that 60%+ of the work was done by Alberth and Rubidium though 18:26:08 <LordAro> but i motivated them to do it! :) 18:26:50 <Rubidium> well, then you've done the remaining 120% ;) 18:29:37 <LordAro> :) 18:30:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:31:34 * LordAro only just got that :) 18:31:48 <LordAro> 90%9-90% rule, yes? 18:33:29 <Yexo> yes 18:34:37 <Yexo> running 14 AIs makes openttd really slow 18:34:50 <SpComb> on a 14-core cpu? 18:34:57 <Yexo> that doesn't matter 18:35:01 <Yexo> all AIs run on the same core 18:35:16 <SpComb> :( 18:35:16 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Poof] 18:37:03 *** arie- [5597f912@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 18:37:45 <Terkhen> LordAro^ 18:37:51 <Terkhen> something to fix :D 18:37:57 <LordAro> :D 18:38:53 *** blotek___ [~blotek@dbq26.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:01 <LordAro> umm... "Warning. Your computer is too useless to run with 14 AIs. Please give up now" 18:39:34 <LordAro> ? 18:39:36 <LordAro> :P 18:39:53 <Yexo> main problem is lack of multicore support 18:40:13 <Terkhen> yes, I meant multicore support for running AIs in parallel :P 18:41:16 <LordAro> yes. bit advanced for me... :) 18:41:22 <LordAro> see above solution :) 18:43:05 <Terkhen> ok, as long as you use all 14 cores for displaying the message 18:44:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23185 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 18:44:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:44:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: belarusian - 23 changes by Wowanxm 18:44:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: english_US - 3 changes by Rubidium 18:44:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: german - 24 changes by planetmaker 18:44:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: spanish - 34 changes by Terkhen 18:44:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: swedish - 45 changes by Zuu 18:46:13 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:49:58 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:50:16 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:05:16 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:05:19 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 19:06:17 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:29:38 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-242-68-207.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:43 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:39:56 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23186 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqbaselib.cpp: -Fix [FS#4830]: [Squirrel] replace custom qsort by std::sort to fix stack overflow 19:40:29 * Rubidium ponders the irony in those emails "asking" to consider the environment by not printing it. Does one really think that it doesn't get printed that way? I'd argue you'd be printing even more (i.e. the request not to do it) and you'd be wasting a lot of energy by adding, transporting, processing and reading it 19:41:03 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 19:41:12 <TyrHeimdall> Rubidium: don't forget the added electricity needed for the transfer of said bulk of text :P 19:41:34 <Rubidium> that's the transporting and processing I'm talking about ;0 19:41:42 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:46:52 * Eddi|zuHause never got such an email 19:47:23 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:47:58 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 19:48:25 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-044-082.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 19:53:14 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:02:10 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 20:03:08 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 20:06:20 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23187 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqbaselib.cpp: -Fix (r23186): MSVC allowed non-const where const was mandatory 20:06:59 <peter1138> :) 20:06:59 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.86.104] has joined #openttd 20:16:01 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:16:40 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 20:18:35 *** brundlefly [none@50-44-67-1.bltn.il.frontiernet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:32 <Zuu> LordAro: Have you any plans to generalize the NewGRF readme reader to a Readme Reader for other content types that also use tar files? 20:22:37 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 20:25:51 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-117-237.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:32:13 <Yexo> <LordAro> i think i'll probably have a go at readme viewers for AIs and base sets, etc <- yes 20:33:50 <Zuu> Good to hear 20:34:33 <Zuu> I've just submitted Swedish translations for the NewGRF readme feature :-) 20:35:09 <Zuu> I kind of thinks that "NewGRF" in "NewGRF readme of {STRING}" could be omitted. 20:36:53 <Alberth> there are also 'NewGRF parameters' and 'NewGRF Settings' :) 20:37:03 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:32 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:38:06 <Yexo> but those don't have the grf name in the title 20:39:32 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 20:44:08 <Alberth> true 20:50:00 <Zuu> Also you need to click first on NewGRF settings to be able to view the readme. 20:58:43 * peter1138 idly ponders the purpose os 30_PaintingVoidTiles.patch 20:58:48 <peter1138> (more height levels) 20:59:25 <peter1138> hmm 20:59:34 <peter1138> why is there geometry outside of the map... :S 21:04:51 *** LordAro [5684196d@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:04:59 *** LordAro- [5684196d@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:05:21 *** LordAro- is now known as LordAro 21:06:44 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: afair that has something to do with the "outside" needing to be black. with the current method, that doesn't extend well beyond height level 16 21:07:27 <peter1138> i don't see the relevance :S 21:07:40 <LordAro> hai Alberth 21:07:49 <Alberth> hi LordAro 21:07:55 <LordAro> i think congratulations are in order for the both of us :) 21:08:24 <LordAro> (but mostly you :) ) 21:08:39 <Alberth> I was somewhat surprised tbh :) 21:08:52 <LordAro> likewise :) 21:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: if the "void" tile is painted flat, it must be painted at level 0 and repeated for each height level, up to the level of the map border 21:10:26 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: if you have sloped black tiles, you can just draw them like normal tiles 21:13:52 *** TWerkhoven2 [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:15:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:16:13 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:16:21 <andythenorth> hola 21:17:28 <LordAro> greets andy 21:19:27 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, turn it into a cliff :) 21:19:55 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: run classes off a cliff 21:19:57 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: that would be very simcity-y 21:20:11 <andythenorth> seems I upset wallyweb :( 21:20:16 <andythenorth> who else can I upset :P 21:20:21 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, also wouldn't solve anything 21:20:27 <peter1138> because that's what it does currently 21:20:29 <b_jonas> simcity isn't the only game doing that 21:20:32 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:20:33 <peter1138> except it just draws the shadow sprite 21:20:53 <peter1138> i guess drawing up to 255 of those shadow sprites gets a bit... repetitive 21:20:59 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22:47 <peter1138> disallow freeform edges, that'll solve it 21:23:38 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:25:11 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 21:28:41 <peter1138> also 21:28:42 <peter1138> with ez 21:29:03 <peter1138> i can't see how to make scaled-up tile edges match native edges :S 21:30:43 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how would you feel about abandoning cargo classes and substituting wagon classes? 21:30:49 <andythenorth> I had some pm chat with MB 21:32:41 <peter1138> vehicle classes :S 21:32:45 <peter1138> also 21:32:49 <peter1138> scale2x is not right :S 21:34:15 <andythenorth> I'm only continuing to pursue classes because I get kicked in the teeth every time they're changed for a FIRS cargo, and I want to get it sorted out :P 21:34:21 <Eddi|zuHause> where was that ancient double mode filter patch... 21:34:48 <andythenorth> from a vehicle set point of view, I'm ecstatic if we lose the XOR on labels + gain a list instead of bitmap 21:35:16 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 21:36:58 <andythenorth> "NO you may not change classes, it breaks sets" 21:37:07 <andythenorth> "NO you may not change labels, it breaks sets!" 21:37:26 <andythenorth> :D 21:38:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i think that last one is rubbish 21:39:23 <peter1138> well yes, simple pixel doubling looks great 21:39:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it may cause a few inconsistencies, but it's not "breaking" 21:39:35 <andythenorth> nah, I'm exagerating 21:39:38 <peter1138> but the still has the issue of mixing highres and original sprites ;p 21:40:04 <andythenorth> pixel doubling? :o 21:40:14 <andythenorth> that would be useful now my eyes are getting old 21:40:15 <peter1138> zooming... 21:40:53 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: there was a patch that had several "filters" to get to double size, not only simple doubling 21:40:55 <peter1138> you didn't see http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ez3.png ? heh 21:41:12 <andythenorth> how cute 21:41:20 <andythenorth> please don't ship that 21:41:23 <peter1138> 4x 21:41:25 <andythenorth> it will reveal all my mistakes 21:43:18 <Elu> i wish we could get an extra zoom level in trunk 21:43:25 *** Elu is now known as Elukka 21:43:28 <Elukka> even with just the current graphics 21:43:59 <Elukka> basically all good sprites look better at double size to me.. 21:44:11 <Elukka> because they're so damn small in the game by default 21:44:25 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ez4.png 21:44:27 <peter1138> yeah, 2x looks nice 21:44:34 <Elukka> that sure does 21:45:11 <peter1138> the 32bpp crowd (all 2 of them?) would probably go mad if it wasn't 4x ;) 21:46:15 <andythenorth> 4x also looks nice 21:46:22 <andythenorth> they all look nice :) 21:46:43 <andythenorth> what a lot of exciting stuff is getting done 21:46:57 <Elukka> is that zoom thing something that we might one day see in trunk? 21:47:06 <andythenorth> it's more exciting even than an episode of In The Night Garden :o 21:49:13 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ez5.png 21:49:17 <peter1138> ^ scale2x applied twice 21:49:34 <peter1138> looks mushy 21:49:53 <peter1138> road surface looks ok 21:50:19 <andythenorth> meh 21:50:29 <andythenorth> pixels should be nearly-square 21:51:59 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ez6.png 21:52:02 <peter1138> opengfx version 21:52:38 <peter1138> paint lines go weird :S 21:53:07 <peter1138> this is 8bpp, of course 21:53:41 <peter1138> opengfx looks nicer than ttd there 21:57:37 <peter1138> anyway, it has performance issues :( 21:57:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the old patch applied some magic so that 30° lines get more emphasised 21:58:17 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: apply scaling on a per-sprite basis, and put the high-res sprites into the sprite cache 21:58:24 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, it is 21:58:59 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-177-230.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 21:59:54 <andythenorth> hmm 22:00:58 *** LordAro [5684196d@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 22:01:10 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-85-57.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:01:58 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-85-57.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 22:04:57 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:55 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:36 <planetmaker> hello 22:24:33 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:24:57 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 22:25:02 <andythenorth> hi planetmaker 22:25:35 <planetmaker> hi andythenorth 22:28:14 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:55 <andythenorth> hmm 22:28:59 <andythenorth> my steel sprites suck 22:29:06 <andythenorth> cba to fix them 22:31:27 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:31:53 <peter1138> bah bah bah 22:34:45 <Terkhen> good night 22:35:03 <andythenorth> tra la la 22:35:07 <andythenorth> good night Terkhen 22:37:02 <andythenorth> what larks 22:37:05 <andythenorth> fixing lighting :P 22:37:06 <peter1138> urgh 22:37:15 <peter1138> way too much effort to draw sprites zoomed out :( 22:37:52 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-117-237.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:45:19 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 22:53:45 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 22:58:43 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:27 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:59:47 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:02:56 <andythenorth> @calc 40 + 40 *0 +1 23:02:56 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 41 23:09:03 <Eddi|zuHause> even i could have calculated that... 23:09:53 <V453000> :D nice one andy 23:10:29 <TGYoshi> @calc 0/0 23:10:29 <DorpsGek> TGYoshi: Error: float division 23:10:33 <TGYoshi> Err 23:12:10 <__ln___> DorpsGek: float division what? 23:12:43 <planetmaker> g'night 23:12:49 <Mazur> Sleep well. 23:12:55 <TGYoshi> And I thought 0/0 == 0 23:13:05 <Mazur> 0/0 can be anything. 23:13:10 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I got that one wrong 23:13:12 <__ln___> TGYoshi: it certainly isn't. 23:13:17 <andythenorth> annoyingly my wife got it right 23:13:23 <__ln___> Mazur: wrong. 23:13:31 <Mazur> Nope. 23:13:47 <Mazur> Just try with limits. 23:13:53 <andythenorth> I never learnt proper order of operations before, in engineering maths we were taught that it's not a valid calculation if you don't include the brackets 23:13:55 <TGYoshi> __ln___: Why not? Zero pieces of ??? devided over zero people, how much get each guy? 23:14:19 <Eddi|zuHause> TGYoshi: 23 23:14:24 <andythenorth> you can't divide by zero 23:14:27 <andythenorth> it's not a thing 23:14:29 <TGYoshi> Possible too :P 23:14:30 <andythenorth> you get at best oo 23:14:46 <TGYoshi> Err, 1/0 = infinite, for me 23:14:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's a whole branch of mathematics just about 0/9 23:14:52 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 23:14:54 <Eddi|zuHause> 0/0 23:14:55 <Mazur> Of the denomimator > 0 you get something infinite, yes. 23:14:58 <__ln___> TGYoshi: the question is not valid because there are zero people, so there's no one to divide to. 23:15:32 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln___: if there are zero trees in the wood, and one falls down, does it make noise? 23:15:46 <TGYoshi> lol 23:15:47 <planetmaker> TGYoshi: what's lim(x->0) x/(x^2) ? 23:16:03 <planetmaker> it's 0/0 in the limit. But is 0 the right answer? 23:16:33 <planetmaker> or lim(x->0) x/(2x) ? 23:16:40 <TGYoshi> I think it depends on the situation the division happens 23:16:49 <planetmaker> there 0/0 = 0.5 is "right" 23:16:58 <planetmaker> it doesn't depend. It's never defined 23:17:37 <__ln___> (it's defined on PowerPC) 23:17:41 <planetmaker> and if you define it, it's that: a definition which is individual to that very case you define it 23:17:55 <andythenorth> philosophy before bed time :P 23:18:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling we have this discussion every week 23:18:23 <TGYoshi> A discussion about 0/0? 23:18:28 <planetmaker> yes 23:18:36 <andythenorth> we also discuss classes 23:18:38 <planetmaker> anyway. I was about to head off :-) g'night again 23:18:40 <andythenorth> incessantly 23:18:41 <TGYoshi> Yay.. 23:18:45 <andythenorth> bye planetmaker 23:18:47 <TGYoshi> Classes are discussed daily here >_> 23:18:49 <TGYoshi> bye 23:22:33 <__ln___> yes, this must be the second 0/0==0 discussion within two weeks. 23:24:23 <TGYoshi> Maybe I should write (0/0) in every place any number can take place 23:25:46 <Eddi|zuHause> you can draw an apple in every place where a number can apperar 23:25:51 <__ln___> should there be something about 0/0 in the topic? ... on the other hand, that would make the matter on-topic 23:26:11 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:24 <Eddi|zuHause> just not a bitten one, you might run into legal troubles 23:26:30 <TGYoshi> lol 23:26:43 <TGYoshi> Why an apple? :P 23:27:08 <Eddi|zuHause> why not an apple? 23:27:27 <Eddi|zuHause> numbers are just completely random symbols 23:27:58 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: COCKBUSTER SLEEP MODE] 23:28:54 <TGYoshi> .. 23:29:11 <TGYoshi> IÂŽd prefer an orange instead 23:29:48 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:33:34 <Mazur> Here, have a bananananana. 23:36:07 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Poof] 23:37:27 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: wrt to excludes - remind me - when you add a cargo to the CTT, why do you need to explicitly exclude it? You had a convincing case 23:37:38 <andythenorth> but I forget 23:38:10 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what the question is 23:38:19 *** TWerkhoven2 [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:39:12 <andythenorth> so if a prop is added for included refits using indices to CTT 23:39:34 <andythenorth> you had compelling case to also add an exclude prop 23:39:42 <andythenorth> again, indices to CTT 23:41:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the reason was: when i add an entry to CTT, e.g. for one wagon to show separate graphics, then i shouldn't need to touch any other vehicle in the set 23:41:37 <andythenorth> that is a compelling aim 23:41:59 <andythenorth> what causes you to need to touch the others? 23:42:45 <andythenorth> you want them to still be refittable to the new cargo? 23:42:50 <andythenorth> I recall now 23:42:54 <Eddi|zuHause> if you automatically exclude all entries of the CTT from refitting, i need to re-add it to every vehicle that previously decided based on classes 23:43:01 <andythenorth> yup 23:43:32 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 23:44:58 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=53654&p=979750#p979750 23:45:08 <andythenorth> and time for sleep for me 23:47:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 23:48:47 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-53-33.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:51:25 *** devilsadvocate_ [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 23:51:34 *** devilsadvocate_ [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has joined #openttd