Config
Log for #openttd on 3rd December 2011:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:07:43  *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd
00:08:02  *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit []
00:12:31  *** mib_lnh6ex [bcd7608d@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
00:12:33  <mib_lnh6ex> Erepublik is the only browser game i have played since 2008 http://www.erepublik.com/en/referrer/OJSimpson I will help you grow
00:12:35  *** mib_lnh6ex [bcd7608d@ircip2.mibbit.com] has left #openttd []
00:19:04  *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit []
00:28:30  *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
00:32:52  *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:36:14  *** Guest19087 [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz]
00:38:12  *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
00:49:32  *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd
00:49:32  *** George is now known as Guest19114
00:49:32  *** George|2 is now known as George
00:52:32  *** Guest19114 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:01:07  *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f45ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:30:58  *** Klanticus [~quassel@200-158-19-27.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:32:12  *** Progman [~progman@p57A1ADB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
01:48:56  *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-025-072.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:09:53  <Hawson_> win 30
02:12:55  *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:31:34  *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A19053.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
02:39:03  *** Progman [~progman@p57A1ADB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:39:15  *** Progman_ is now known as Progman
02:55:12  *** Progman [~progman@p57A19053.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:04:36  *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
03:38:54  *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:855b:c316:c2af:11ee] has quit [Quit: bye]
04:35:21  *** Hawson_ is now known as Hawson
04:56:49  *** George is now known as Guest19130
04:56:53  *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd
05:02:11  *** Guest19130 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:21:00  *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> oxygen.oftc.net quits: plantain, tparker, ccfreak2k, +tokai
05:24:40  *** Netsplit over, joins: +tokai, tparker, plantain, ccfreak2k
05:27:05  *** jonty-comp [~jonty@borealis.jontysewell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:27:32  *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:53:17  *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74191.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:53:38  *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B744F1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
06:08:44  *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-103-88.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
06:21:51  *** jonty-comp [~jonty@2a02:1680:0:1:2:1:1:6e01] has joined #openttd
06:22:12  *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has joined #openttd
06:43:44  *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop_]
06:47:38  *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd
06:47:38  *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:00:06  *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-248-083.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:04:18  *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
07:04:28  *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
07:17:48  *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
07:23:55  *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-124.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
07:26:29  *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:40:17  *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd
07:43:50  *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
07:44:10  *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd
07:51:02  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
07:51:03  *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
07:51:06  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
07:51:13  <Wolf01> 'morning
07:51:23  <Alberth> moin Wolf01
07:53:41  <planetmaker> moin
07:54:26  <Terkhen> good morning
08:08:47  *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
08:09:53  *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-prvbrasgw1-fe05dc00-37.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
08:23:57  *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
08:34:42  *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-186-214.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
08:45:39  *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd
08:48:12  *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
08:54:27  *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
09:22:36  *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
09:23:07  *** JVassie [~James@2.27.87.71] has joined #openttd
09:31:08  <planetmaker> hm, with about 3 dozen instances of gimp launched simultaneously I can manage to render my computer virtually unresponsive :-P
09:37:07  <Alberth> make some tea :)
09:38:48  <planetmaker> yeah, I did exactly that :-)
09:43:34  *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-126-165.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd
09:46:26  *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon]
09:49:35  *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-210-238.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
09:56:39  *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
10:02:04  *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
10:21:06  *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111115183541]]
10:27:30  *** Progman [~progman@p57A19053.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:35:51  *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
10:36:42  * __ln__ in ICE34, kÞbenhavn
10:45:16  *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd
10:49:34  *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
10:49:43  <andythenorth> mornink
10:49:51  <andythenorth> do any of you contribute to wikipedia?
10:49:54  <Terkhen> hi andythenorth
10:49:56  <andythenorth> and if not, what prevents you?
10:50:18  <Terkhen> no, a mixture of laziness and not having anything important to add
10:51:03  <planetmaker> andythenorth: I once started. But I got frustrated very quickly as everything was undone by admins again
10:51:05  <andythenorth> I met a wiki-media employee last night and was arguing about why wikipedia doesn't get contributions
10:51:06  <planetmaker> Thus I stopped
10:51:29  <andythenorth> apparently the two things they want are (1) contributors (2) money
10:51:48  <andythenorth> I said that everyone I knew who contributed had their stuff removed, so they don't contribute again
10:52:05  <planetmaker> i.e. new articles I wrote were trashed with the "not relevant" cireterion
10:52:24  <planetmaker> yeah
10:53:16  <andythenorth> anyone else got wikipedia experiences?
10:53:46  <Rubidium> well, OpenTTD got almost removed because it was not notable
10:54:03  <Terkhen> heh, really? :P
10:54:12  <Rubidium> so I scholar-googled and added some "sources"
10:55:17  <Rubidium> what is interesting is that the most 'notable' source, is IMO the least reliable source
10:55:36  <Rubidium> (OpenTTD being 8th most active to receive patches)
10:55:50  <Terkhen> my only edits to wikipedia are updating the spanish page of OpenTTD whenever we get a new major version and changing the description
10:57:00  <Rubidium> what annoys me most about wikipedia is that the OpenTTD website (or its source code) is not seen as a reliable source for events that happened
10:57:27  <Terkhen> what else can you use?
10:57:51  <Rubidium> well, you must find some 'third party' that has written something and use that as 'source'
10:58:03  <Rubidium> which is totally stupid
10:58:37  <planetmaker> quite so
10:59:09  <Rubidium> e.g. http://www.heise.de/software/download/openttd/52483 is right, but http://www.openttd.org/en/about is not
10:59:10  <Terkhen> but that third party article is either based on whatever we have or wrong :P
10:59:11  <planetmaker> which is part of the frustrating experience
11:00:15  <Terkhen> heh, that link illustrates your point completely
11:04:00  <Rubidium> shall we claim that Microprose released the source? http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/117/1177873p1.html
11:04:55  <Rubidium> which is more reliable (wikipedia speaking) than a post of Ludde saying what he did
11:05:04  <Rubidium> but I digress and should've been on a shopping run
11:05:58  <planetmaker> he
11:06:07  <Terkhen> :D
11:12:42  <andythenorth> the rules for sources seem very stupid
11:13:00  *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-015-212.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd
11:16:57  <Wolf01> I updated an old nightly I had on a thumb drive, but also after downloading all the updated open graphics/sounds/music it still complain I miss sprites and in fact I do, what's the problem?
11:21:25  <MNIM> I wish they released the UT2004 source.
11:21:29  <MNIM> now that would be amusing
11:21:50  *** Klanticus [~quassel@200-158-19-27.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #openttd
11:26:35  *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-237-123.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
11:26:52  <LordAro> good morning
11:26:58  <LordAro> (for me :P )
11:28:41  <Rubidium> Wolf01: from where did you download the updated files? Also, what base graphics set did you use, and if you used the original one, did you update the files in the 'data' directory as well?
11:29:23  <andythenorth> biab
11:29:24  *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
11:29:58  <Wolf01> I use original windows, I dlded the updated ones with the download content menu
11:30:21  <Wolf01> maybe I have old data files all around
11:31:41  <Rubidium> in the openttd nightly directory, are there both a "data" and a "baseset" directory? If so, remove the "data" directory
11:34:48  <Wolf01> seem to work now
11:50:48  <TrueBrain> Why does fucking Windows not show when it is still gathering information about a direectory when you hit Properties on a map :(
11:50:51  <TrueBrain> IT MAKES NO SENSE :(
11:54:06  *** Klanticus [~quassel@200-158-19-27.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:03:00  *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
12:13:34  <Alberth> yeah, IT makes little sense indeed.
12:13:46  <Alberth> (at times) :)
12:23:28  *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd
12:24:13  <TrueBrain> fact of life about Windows: how ever big your partition is, within a  year, it will be too small
12:25:05  <MNIM> you mean the windows partition?
12:25:22  <TrueBrain> no, the linux partition
12:25:27  <TrueBrain> :D
12:25:43  <MNIM> my linux partition is okay >.>
12:25:53  <TrueBrain> silly questions silly answers ;)
12:26:33  <MNIM> well, partitions generally become too small within a year regardless of OS :P
12:26:45  <TrueBrain> well, I install Windows, and it consumes 12GB
12:26:50  <TrueBrain> within a year it consumes 60GB
12:26:53  <TrueBrain> all I did was install updates
12:26:59  <TrueBrain> I never had that issue with Linux or Mac
12:27:02  <MNIM> unless of course you tend to buy, like me, a HD that is ten times too large at the time
12:27:22  <TrueBrain> so no, it doesn't seem to be regardless of OS :)
12:27:59  <MNIM> my windows partition only uses 25 gb of the 40 I assigned to it 0-0
12:28:48  <MNIM> then again, I rarely update windows, rarely allow it to last more than half a year and all programs are installed on another partition.
12:29:10  <Alberth> Mine uses 0GB :)     on the other hand, I had a Linux system with 1.5GB in 1994 :p
12:29:38  <TrueBrain> Windows SBS has a start requirement of 40GB. Last year, they changed that to 60GB ..
12:29:41  <TrueBrain> says enough I am afraid :P
12:30:05  <Alberth> indeed :)
12:30:12  <MNIM> huh. apparently / has only 15 Gb free
12:30:16  <TrueBrain> what annoys me most, is that you cannot see all the space used ...
12:30:31  <TrueBrain> it is impossible to locate 15GB for me on this drive ... it is 'hidden'
12:30:45  <MNIM> which is odd, considering that partition is 50gb :S
12:30:54  <MNIM> truebrain: windows snapshot
12:31:04  <MNIM> notorious disk eater
12:31:14  <TrueBrain> rootfs                 18G   15G  2.8G  85% / <- hihi :D
12:31:40  <MNIM> then again, unlike in windows, I don't install programs on a separate partition in linux
12:32:00  <TrueBrain> I just mount partitions when a map gets too big  :P
12:32:15  <Terkhen> both windows and windows programs create an unbelievable amount of garbage
12:32:34  <TrueBrain> problem with windows: once a dll is installed, it will almost certainally remain instaleld
12:32:37  <TrueBrain> and with this winsxs shit
12:32:42  <TrueBrain> that only increased in size
12:32:56  <TrueBrain> the more versions of a dll you install, the more it collects dust there
12:33:09  <MNIM> hmmmh
12:33:09  <Terkhen> I disable system restore and every 3 or 4 months I format the whole thing with a clonezilla image
12:33:10  <TrueBrain> and no sane way to validate if one is still used
12:33:10  <MNIM> well
12:33:13  <Terkhen> less than optimal :)
12:33:24  <MNIM> ut2004 does eat more than 8GB of space on /
12:33:26  <MNIM> :P
12:33:31  <TrueBrain> these are production servers for customers ... they will not like my formatting it :D
12:33:56  <Terkhen> urgh
12:41:52  *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-28-180-57.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
12:53:33  *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
12:57:52  *** andythenorth is now known as Guest19169
12:57:52  *** Guest19169 [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:57:53  *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
13:11:15  *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:13:49  *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:798d:397d:1347:ff4d] has joined #openttd
13:13:52  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
13:18:20  *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:21:07  *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
13:24:57  *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5ebe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
13:26:06  *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d823dc4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
13:35:28  <Eddi|zuHause> "SchwÀbisch GmÌnd opens 'Bud Bad'" (public bath named after Bud Spencer)
13:36:10  *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon]
13:46:36  <andythenorth> so maybe BANDIT could be as few as 10 trucks (or 10 types, with models evolving over time)
13:46:53  <andythenorth> but to allow trailers, I have to duplicate perhaps 6 of them
13:47:34  <planetmaker> would be ok, not?
13:49:11  <andythenorth> probably
13:49:22  <andythenorth> it's not that many
13:49:48  * andythenorth is on a quest for best balance of variety / simplicity in the buy menu
13:50:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i need for nml to generate a v8 grf, to test the new articulation callback
13:51:20  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: now we're past 0.2.0 of NML we can switch to generally creating grf v8.
13:51:26  <planetmaker> Patches welcome ;-)
13:51:55  <andythenorth> anybody want to play multiplayer, HEQS, starting 1870-ish?
13:52:00  * andythenorth needs to test trams
13:52:28  <planetmaker> hm... if you have a few days patience, andythenorth, that might make a good RV-only game for #openttdcoop
13:52:38  <andythenorth> patience?
13:52:42  <andythenorth> what is that please?
13:54:14  <planetmaker> the thing your young son or daughter probably has in over-abundance when it comes to making loud noises at night ;-)
13:54:36  <andythenorth> I don't think it runs in my family :P
13:54:42  <andythenorth> my wife has no patience either
13:54:42  <planetmaker> :-P
13:54:50  <andythenorth> our house is...shouty
13:55:12  <andythenorth> maybe a game will inspire me to work on FIRS
13:55:39  <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/articulation_pattern.txt <-- i'd like to try this out, but without the new articulation callback, i can't fit enough dummy vehicles in
13:56:22  <andythenorth> var 1 / var 2?
13:56:31  <andythenorth> new cb?
13:56:39  <andythenorth> forum linky?
13:56:50  <Eddi|zuHause> variant 1 or variant 2
13:59:28  *** Brianetta [~brian@212.183.128.191] has joined #openttd
14:02:28  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: not sure if that's a devzone bug, but my latest commit doesn't appear in activity
14:05:52  <LordAro> woo, christmas-y forums
14:06:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i _really_ hate this style
14:06:47  <V453000> +1
14:07:09  <LordAro> it's not so bad..
14:11:27  <LordAro> how to find palette in gimp... ?
14:12:35  <LordAro> or, how to change greyscale image to rgb?
14:13:19  <planetmaker> LordAro: image -> mode
14:13:37  <LordAro> thanks :D
14:17:43  * andythenorth has forums in vanilla skin
14:24:17  *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
14:24:34  <Eddi|zuHause> "in Valladolid a road was named after an internet vote 'calle de ma falta un tornillo' ('i-am-lacking-a-screw-road'). it leads to a well-known furniture store."
14:27:25  *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust298.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
14:27:27  <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: I guess the DevZone orders it by date, and your last commit date is in the past.
14:28:21  <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: but it doesn't appear there either
14:32:30  * andythenorth has *never* used the Iron Works in FIRS
14:32:34  <andythenorth> is it pointless?
14:33:04  <Eddi|zuHause> turn it into a factory
14:35:02  <Hirundo> iron works is the early wood+iron=metal industry?
14:36:42  <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: the 2nd option in votes was even more stupid IIRC
14:36:53  <planetmaker> Hirundo: iirc, yes
14:39:47  *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-124.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:54:15  *** Brianetta [~brian@212.183.128.191] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:55:40  <Hirundo> it seems sensible to me to keep that one in, though I've not played that early games with FIRS
14:58:41  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the problem with it is that it stays around after steel mills are available
14:59:37  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r23400 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix (r23393, r23382): Text query window was hidden in numerous cases
15:00:18  <planetmaker> now, that was SLOW
15:00:38  *** Rezt [~Rezt@81-178-196-192.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd
15:01:04  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: better than the one from rubidium yesterday :)
15:01:22  <Alberth> it appreciated the nice round number for a while :)
15:01:31  <planetmaker> how long there, Eddi|zuHause :-)
15:01:46  <planetmaker> Alberth: I'd say at least 10 minutes or so :-)
15:03:38  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: not entirely sure what happened, but it showed a completely empty message
15:03:51  <planetmaker> oh, that :-)
15:03:51  <Eddi|zuHause> trueb
15:03:53  <Eddi|zuHause> bÀh
15:04:06  <planetmaker> wrong spelling :-P
15:04:14  <planetmaker> and pronounciation :-P
15:04:49  <Eddi|zuHause> it's spelled pronunciation :)
15:06:38  <Terkhen> :D
15:07:27  <planetmaker> :-)
15:18:35  *** TomyLobo2 [~foo@p4FC22B4C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
15:20:45  <Eddi|zuHause> PS: what exactly are "default vales"? :)
15:22:09  <planetmaker> :-)
15:22:20  <planetmaker> amputated valves
15:24:19  *** TomyLobo [~foo@84.148.100.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:24:19  *** TomyLobo2 is now known as TomyLobo
15:29:40  *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-124.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
15:32:12  <Terkhen> I know that I already asked this, but... is there any NewGRF with houses that produce something besides mail and passengers'
15:32:19  <Terkhen> ?
15:33:56  *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd
15:35:21  <planetmaker> ECS houses and tourists maybe?
15:36:10  <michi_cc> There are definitely some houses that accept others cargoes, but I'm not sure if anyone coded some houses that produce other cargoes.
15:36:19  <Terkhen> hmm... I have ECS town vector and TTRS, let me check for ECS houses
15:38:27  <Terkhen> http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/details.php?do=details&id=274 <--- doesn't look like it does
15:39:56  <Eddi|zuHause> "ECS houses" is just the special houses from TTRS that accept other stuff (fuel station, etc.)
15:40:24  <Eddi|zuHause> TTRS produces tourists if ECS is loaded
15:42:07  * Terkhen wonders if that's true for TTRS nightly r36 too
15:43:14  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the Iron Works is a flawed design
15:43:21  <andythenorth> it *has* to stay around by design
15:44:04  <Terkhen> it doesn't help that those tourist things are really hard to build
15:44:10  <Eddi|zuHause> the "early industries" should probably get the same conversion-efficiency as the later, but a production cap
15:44:29  <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: the regular tourist attraction (tower) only needs a slope
15:45:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: and IIRC some TTRS houses also accept tourists (statue, hotel)
15:45:18  <Terkhen> thanks, I managed to build the easy one :)
15:45:32  <Eddi|zuHause> but i haven't played with it in ages
15:46:09  <Terkhen> yes, the houses produce tourists :)
15:46:31  <Terkhen> let's see if I can get a tourist subsidy or not
15:46:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i stopped using TTRS for two reasons: a) the houses are green, and b) they produce too many passengers
15:47:42  <Terkhen> yay, success
15:47:48  <planetmaker> what's wrong with green houses, Eddi|zuHause?
15:48:31  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: looks like a toyland town...
15:48:49  <planetmaker> you've never seen Scandinavia for real, eh?
15:48:52  <Eddi|zuHause> swedish houses is only slightly better in both aspects
15:49:18  *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
15:54:20  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: production cap - max output, or stop accepting input?
15:54:39  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: max output might be less limiting
15:55:17  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: since i know your dislike of PBI-style acception limits
15:56:00  <andythenorth> I like them in PBI
15:56:12  <andythenorth> I don't like handling the moaning from players
15:56:20  <andythenorth> coop players don't like them destroying routes :P
15:56:43  <andythenorth> same reason we can't shut industries :|
15:57:57  <planetmaker> Maybe we should introduce two economies ;-)
15:58:06  <planetmaker> or more parameters :-P
15:59:31  <andythenorth> we should devise a way to delegate closures to GS
15:59:47  <andythenorth> for both 'no production' and 'historical changes'
15:59:49  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly
16:00:32  <Eddi|zuHause> but that needs a sane GS<->NewGRF communication interface
16:02:33  <andythenorth> or just make FIRS respect cb 29, 35
16:02:38  <andythenorth> and give the GS control over those
16:03:02  <andythenorth> it's proven that newgrf can't handle industry closure
16:03:08  <andythenorth> so it should stop trying
16:03:14  <andythenorth> I should just remove that code from FIRS
16:04:04  <Terkhen> we should let both control industries, and obey one or the other randomly each time
16:04:14  <Terkhen> that would be fun
16:04:45  <andythenorth> for some definition of fun :P
16:05:00  <andythenorth> FIRS has tractors on farms in 1869
16:05:06  <andythenorth> which idiot did that? :o
16:05:08  *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd
16:05:49  <Terkhen> I haven't tested but I'm quite sure that even more things look broken if you start in 1011
16:06:13  <Terkhen> you shouldn't bother that much with stuff like that :P
16:06:24  <Eddi|zuHause> tractors were probably not common before 1950-ish
16:06:42  <Eddi|zuHause> so the graphics could maybe "update" from horses to tractors
16:07:02  <Eddi|zuHause> with some randomisation between 1940 and 1960
16:09:15  <andythenorth> that would require me to learn how the templates work :P
16:11:07  *** Rezt [~Rezt@81-178-196-192.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/]
16:11:10  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't you (try to) do the same with the sand pit?
16:12:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i need an option for "mv": "leave symlink to new location"
16:14:09  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: doesn't cp do that?
16:14:11  *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
16:14:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: no, only the other way round
16:15:02  <Eddi|zuHause> leave a symlink at the new location to the existing file
16:15:59  <Alberth> ah, mv old new; cp --whatever-options new old  ?
16:16:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: that requires remembering what files were copied
16:16:56  *** Zuu is now known as Guest19187
16:16:56  *** Zuu_ is now known as Zuu
16:17:01  <Eddi|zuHause> especially if files were copied only partially, etc.
16:18:05  <Alberth> partial copies?? that does not sound very sane :p
16:18:15  *** Guest19187 [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:18:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean only half the files were copied, due to errors
16:19:23  <Alberth> I'd do 'rm -r new' then :p
16:19:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but at that point the old files were already deleted
16:20:11  <Eddi|zuHause> the ones that were successfully moved
16:20:46  <Alberth> oh joy :p
16:21:17  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I haven't done any date-specific graphics for FIRS yet
16:21:40  <andythenorth> it's far from even being ready to start doing that :|
16:22:14  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: why? it needs only a handful of varaction2s :)
16:22:42  <andythenorth> bigger tasks that should be done first ;)
16:22:50  <Eddi|zuHause> plus the graphics, of course :)
16:24:08  <Eddi|zuHause> switch(date) { <1940: old gfx; 1940-1960: random switch; >1960: new gfx; }
16:24:42  <andythenorth> I'll draw if you code ;)
16:25:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd end up completely rewriting everything :p
16:26:04  <Pinkbeast> I would love it if the anachronistic cranes and bulldozers vanished and were replaced with first horse traction and then things like steam shovels. :-)
16:26:10  <andythenorth> they could be
16:26:15  <andythenorth> I have steam shovel graphics
16:26:36  <Pinkbeast> And narrow-gauge industrials with crane tanks. I love crane tanks, and there's about two still running.
16:28:14  <Pinkbeast> Obviously I can't speak for anyone else but you'd make one player happy. :-)
16:28:18  <andythenorth> Pinkbeast: look in the list here.... http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/issues
16:28:52  <Pinkbeast> Aha, you're ahead of me already.
16:29:30  <Pinkbeast> But I was thinking of having them as scenery, although it would be odd to have a buildable vehicle also hanging about at industries, I suppose?
16:29:54  <andythenorth> not really
16:30:04  <andythenorth> there are HEQS vehicles used as eye candy in lots of sets
16:30:18  * andythenorth is baffled by timetables
16:30:28  <andythenorth> how can my vehicle 'travel for 10 days' ?
16:30:45  <andythenorth> I tried it, and the game doesn't make the vehicle travel slower or faster to cover the distance in 10 days
16:30:47  <andythenorth> is that a bug?
16:30:50  <Eddi|zuHause> use the 24h-timetable patch :)
16:31:04  <Pinkbeast> It will wait for longer at the next station if it is running fast
16:31:09  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the vehicle travels always max speed, it just waits longer at the station
16:31:21  <Pinkbeast> ... which tends to exacerbate platform congestion, yes
16:31:45  <Eddi|zuHause> it'd be nice to tell vehicles "travel at 80% speed, unless vehicle is late"
16:32:06  <Pinkbeast> Particularly with automatic timetable management, where vehicle A waits because it is early so vehicle B can't get in so vehicle B increases the estimate of the time taken to make the journey so vehicle C waits so...
16:32:24  <andythenorth> locks are stupid
16:32:44  <Pinkbeast> ... and especially with RV operations where vehicles don't manage multiple-tile stations well
16:33:04  <andythenorth> locks are too big, and disproportionately expensive
16:33:16  <Pinkbeast> Canals themselves are entirely made out of money
16:33:20  <andythenorth> I don't suppose anyone will be happy if I make FISH fix base costs
16:33:33  <andythenorth> I'll have to make a stupid standalone grf for this
16:33:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd just divide canal base costs by 4 or 8 or so
16:33:52  <Eddi|zuHause> canals are way too expensive
16:34:04  <andythenorth> a lock is 4x the price of a 6 tile, 70mph bridge
16:34:11  <Pinkbeast> Especially since if you _are_ going to use them it'll likely be in 1820 or so when the game's just started
16:34:14  <andythenorth> it's just a fricking hole in the mud, with water in it
16:34:42  <Alberth> but it costs an insane amount of manual labour to make the hole :)
16:34:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but in 1820, manual labour is cheap
16:35:00  <andythenorth> Alberth: built any bridges recently? :P
16:35:11  <Pinkbeast> In reality canals are much more expensive than railways but in the game if we're going to have canals they should be relatively viable
16:35:40  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: they build one of the longest bridges on mainland europe here.
16:35:44  <Pinkbeast> In the Rennford game I did build one canal in the days of horse traction and I think it was eventually profitable, but I could only do it once the company was quite large.
16:35:55  <andythenorth> Pinkbeast: no no, it's a train game.  The other transport types *should* be punished
16:36:08  <andythenorth> else how will anyone ever see the superiority of trains
16:36:09  <andythenorth> ?
16:36:15  <Pinkbeast> andy> yabbut RV pathing does that job without any effort on your part. :-/
16:37:27  <Pinkbeast> timetables> I would love to see a way to say "if you're just waiting at a station because of the timetable and another vehicle wants to get in, start moving" but recognising that the latter part of that has happened looks tricky
16:38:18  <b_jonas> just build large enough stations
16:38:50  <Pinkbeast> jonas> The easiest thing in the world at a city centre terminus. :-)
16:39:08  *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
16:39:25  <Pinkbeast> Also that would work better if, as previously mentioned, a long line of RV approaching a multi-tile station didn't love to all rush up to the same tile of it and see what happens
16:40:18  <Pinkbeast> Steam Railway #395 has a nice picture of a preserved crane tank actually using the crane :-)
16:42:11  <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.baustellen-doku.info/grossprojekte/ice-neubaustrecke_erfurt-leipzig-halle/saale-elster-talbruecke.php <-- a bridge with length 6,5km and a branch with length 2km, total 8,5km bridge
16:44:05  <andythenorth> not possible.  no junctions on bridges
16:47:27  *** EggPlant891 [~Eggman891@client-81-108-129-219.mcr-bng-012.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #openttd
16:47:46  *** EggPlant891 [~Eggman891@client-81-108-129-219.mcr-bng-012.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit []
17:03:34  <__ln__> speaking of leipzig, i should arrive there in two hours
17:05:50  <Eddi|zuHause> that's about the time it would take me to get there
17:10:09  <frosch123> so you have 4 hours left until ln arrives at your place :p
17:11:11  <Eddi|zuHause> if he could find it :p
17:11:30  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ found that kinda tricky last time :p
17:15:30  <Pinkbeast> I didn't realise some of you were in that neck of the woods (we go to the WGT in Leipzig)
17:18:11  * andythenorth wonders how to do a base costs grf in nml :P
17:18:22  <andythenorth> probably by following the documentation I guess
17:18:47  <andythenorth> is it really wrong for FISH to adjust canal construction costs?
17:18:52  <frosch123> there are some basecosts grfs on the devzone, maybe some uses nml?
17:19:04  <frosch123> andythenorth: add a switch :p
17:19:49  <frosch123> it should be possible to disable such things to solve conflicts
17:20:26  <andythenorth> indeed
17:20:41  <andythenorth> I'll add it to FISH trunk
17:20:51  <andythenorth> when someone complains, I'll add a disable parameter :P
17:21:13  *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc12-linl7-2-0-cust144.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
17:23:29  <andythenorth> oh
17:23:45  <andythenorth> making canals cheaper also makes it ridiculously cheap to bulldoze sea :P
17:24:11  <Pinkbeast> Siiigh
17:24:11  <frosch123> no
17:24:27  <andythenorth> I misread the spec
17:24:34  <andythenorth> that happens too often :P
17:25:52  <planetmaker> andythenorth: with the old base costs that might have been. With the new: no. Especially not with newgrf v8 :-P
17:26:01  <Terkhen> :)
17:26:33  <planetmaker> andythenorth: and the base cost newgrfs are afaik in NML. But I might err
17:26:49  <planetmaker> but you don't use FISH to change canal building costs, do you?
17:27:00  <andythenorth> I am for my own game right now
17:27:17  <planetmaker> :S
17:27:29  <planetmaker> making a default change to canal building costs IMHO is wrong
17:27:33  <frosch123> planetmaker: newgrf authors always mess things up :p
17:27:37  <planetmaker> that's what base cost newgrfs are for
17:28:09  <planetmaker> make a sensible preset which covers also other costs to what you consider a useful cost balance and make that a separate newgrf
17:28:11  <planetmaker> much better
17:28:21  <planetmaker> much more versatile
17:28:32  <andythenorth> yes
17:28:44  <andythenorth> one more thing to forget to add to the newgrf list :P
17:28:54  <andythenorth> but I can add anything I want in game, so meh
17:29:08  <planetmaker> and if you create yourself a newgrf preset just with the base cost newgrf which changes costs like you need, you can always re-use it
17:29:13  <planetmaker> without programming anything
17:29:25  <planetmaker> it has already a nice, readible gui
17:30:42  <andythenorth> ha
17:30:44  <andythenorth> no coding
17:30:47  <andythenorth> thanks
17:31:01  <andythenorth> we need drop down menus for the newgrf gui though :P
17:32:28  <planetmaker> just make sure you save that as preset somehow... ;-)
17:32:36  <planetmaker> if you want it back in another game
17:32:43  <andythenorth> hmm
17:32:46  <planetmaker> might save you many clicks ;-)
17:32:50  <andythenorth> why not just ship it by default in every game?
17:32:52  <frosch123> what... nested classes cannot have static declarations... oh java
17:33:19  <planetmaker> that's what presets are for, andythenorth ;-)
17:33:35  <planetmaker>