Config
Log for #openttd on 21st December 2011:
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00:21:57  <TrueBrain> epic work getting a GS online Zuu, tnx a lot for that :D
00:21:59  <TrueBrain> good posts :)
00:22:18  <Zuu> It was just a quick GS I wrote tonight
00:22:36  <TrueBrain> a begin is all that is needed :)
00:22:38  <Zuu> Though, took me several days to come up with an idea worth implementing.
00:22:43  <TrueBrain> off to bed, night :)
00:22:47  * Zuu too
00:22:53  <Zuu> night
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03:54:34  <Mast3rPlan> What does station too spread out mean?
03:56:25  <chris_0076> It means you station is too spread out.
03:56:27  <chris_0076> your*
03:57:12  <chris_0076> as in you are trying to place the station over too large of an area
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09:43:24  <John> hi again
09:44:00  <John> i dont understand why 30 passengers stay in the station
09:44:03  <John> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/screenrxv.png/
09:44:36  <John> they wont go away
09:44:49  <John> it seems that dont have a destination
09:46:04  <John> oh, i'm using cargodist, of course
09:46:08  <planetmaker> cargos never have a destination. You just need to transport it to a station which accepts it.
09:46:57  <planetmaker> In that case: find the cargodist thread, attach the savegame and mention the exact version you play and explain your issue.
09:47:12  <planetmaker> screenshots are not much helpful in finding that kind of issues.
09:47:38  <John> ok, thanks
09:47:39  <John> ill do it
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09:58:11  <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=986407#p986407 <-- is it really *that* hard to attach a savegame to a question?
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09:58:27  <planetmaker> Especially when he obviously was told already that it would be much more helpful?
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10:26:13  <kleinerdrache> is there a german channel too?
10:27:01  <Alberth> not that we are aware of
10:27:54  <kleinerdrache> ok, so i try in english
10:28:16  <kleinerdrache> is there a way to build all trains to magnetic trains (I have everything electric trains now).
10:29:41  <planetmaker> you cannot convert trains to another incompatible track type
10:31:05  <kleinerdrache> planetmaker, so i could send them all to the depots and convert everything, also the trains, and work this way?
10:31:07  <planetmaker> you *might* want to try the "universal track type" NewGRF. It allows you to autoreplace engines first to the "universal" type, then convert all tracks and depots. And then autoreplace the engines and wagons to the final type
10:31:09  <planetmaker> but...
10:31:26  <planetmaker> ... newgrfs might disagree that there's an autorefit path :-)
10:32:16  <kleinerdrache> so, in a normal game there will always be both at the end?
10:32:22  <planetmaker> kleinerdrache, only when you use something like the universal track type. By default you cannot convert an engine or wagon to something incompatible
10:33:26  <kleinerdrache> ok, thanks
10:34:32  <planetmaker> kleinerdrache, there's a German forum, though: tt-ms.de
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12:12:39  <Rens> Hi guys, could someone help me with decoding a grf?
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12:13:00  <planetmaker> @topic get -3
12:13:00  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask
12:13:10  <Noldo> did you find the tool?
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12:13:52  <Rens> yeah I found the tool, but d'n know where to drop it and when I run de .exe it says is misses a .dll or something
12:17:15  <planetmaker> then you fix it or something
12:17:24  <planetmaker> or read the readme or something
12:17:29  <planetmaker> or both
12:17:57  <Rens> the read me says 'Copy it into your TTD directory'
12:18:14  <Rens> So i put it in my Nightly file on my HD.
12:18:52  <Rens> Maybe the .dll is just missing in my computer or some thing? I tried the wizard but he could locate my ttd folder on my HD
12:20:57  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23646 /trunk/ (5 files in 5 dirs): -Fix [FS#4901]: rescan the Game Scripts when done downloading one.
12:20:59  <planetmaker> Rens, you should start with stating what programme you talk of, what version thereof, ...
12:21:04  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23647 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Add: add rescan_game as console command (patch by Xaroth)
12:21:11  <Alberth> euhm, you are trying to decode a grf with ttd?
12:21:29  <planetmaker> ^^ sounds all very unclear of what you did, do or did try, Rens
12:21:33  <Alberth> what do you expect as output?
12:21:52  <planetmaker> and what did you give as input or how did you start / call the programme?
12:21:57  <Rens> yeah I need to decode the Av8
12:22:07  <TrueBrain> 5 files?! Holy crap, that can't be right ...
12:22:08  <Alberth> and what .dll are you missing? :)
12:22:09  <planetmaker> yeah, I need more patience
12:22:28  <planetmaker> and no, you don't need to decode av8 ;-)
12:22:34  <planetmaker> that's just imaginary needs :-P
12:23:25  <Alberth> Rens: what do you hope to achieve by decoding Av8 ?
12:23:36  <Rens> I'm talking about the nightly r199946 I nee file libgcc_s_dw2-1.dll
12:23:48  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23648 /trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): -Revert (r23646): partial revert; nobody has to know about my local changes and attempts
12:23:56  <Xaroth> TrueBrain: lol
12:24:25  <Alberth> nightly 199946 ?     wow, that's about 180,000 revisions ahead of openttd
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12:24:39  <Alberth> doing some time traveling lately? :)
12:24:49  <Rens> I am a painter of the WAS, and we have permission to youse some stuff from pikkaBrid, but I just neet to decode it for the sprites
12:25:14  <Xaroth> Alberth: quick, yoink his delorean
12:25:17  <Rens> Aperently not, I'm playing an complete other version of Openttd
12:26:02  <Alberth> Rens: you cannot use ttd for decoding a grf, you need grfcodec for that, or grf2hyml
12:26:08  <Alberth> *grf2html
12:26:47  <Rens> i have a grfcodec, but it need to be placed in a ttd file
12:27:04  <planetmaker> which grfcodec do you have?
12:27:08  <Rens> And it is obviously not working
12:27:28  <planetmaker> sounds to me like you got a version from the stone age at least
12:27:47  <Rens> grfcodec 5.3.1. windoews 32 bit
12:28:07  <TrueBrain> latest grfcodec is 5.1.3
12:28:15  <Rens> yeah thats trough, but i'm using a cb1.0.5. or somting
12:28:38  <Rens> oow sorry 5.1.3, verry stupid
12:28:51  <TrueBrain> if you tell versions, make sure you are correct ;) It is kinda important :D:D :)
12:29:32  <Rens> OpenTTD cb 1.0.5/1.0 RC3
12:29:48  <planetmaker> ehm... ?
12:29:53  <planetmaker> what kind of version is that?
12:30:14  <planetmaker> And.... where does that matter when you develop / de-compile NewGRFs?
12:30:32  <Rens> I thought it was a special version with overloading passengers and stuff like that but i'm not sure
12:30:34  <planetmaker> Have you taken a single look at grfcodec's readme?
12:30:57  <planetmaker> it's nothing which you click on and it runs
12:31:01  <planetmaker> you need the command line
12:31:28  <planetmaker> it has no graphical interface
12:31:47  <Rens> just the command line of my windows system?
12:31:52  <Alberth> yep
12:32:05  <Rens> ok, what do I have to do
12:32:24  <planetmaker> read the enclosed readme
12:34:07  <Alberth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec/repository/entry/docs/grfcodec.txt
12:34:29  <Alberth> it says "Copy it into your TTD directory", but I don't see why it says that
12:34:50  <Alberth> hmm, maybe libraries that it needs?
12:34:57  <planetmaker> hysterical raisins probably
12:35:17  <planetmaker> my grfcodec certainly is not there. I don't have TTD installed...
12:35:21  <Rens> CMD says 'grfcodec isn't found'
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12:35:26  <Rens> But then in dutch
12:35:40  <planetmaker> yes, it's not in your search path...
12:36:16  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23649 /trunk/src/saveload/game_sl.cpp: -Fix [FS#4905) (r23634): loading a savegame with an empty GSTR chunk caused assert
12:36:35  <Alberth> give it a full path, like c:\full\path\to\the\grfcodec\executable\grfcodec.exe
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12:36:49  <Rens> ahh ok
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12:37:27  <Rens> But it says'C;\users\Rens but it's located on my C\program files
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12:37:48  <Alberth> if you have spaces in your path, use double quotes around it
12:39:16  <Alberth> as in "c:\program files\to\grfcodec.exe"
12:39:29  <planetmaker> hm, good point though. The enclosed readme is in need of some minor updates...
12:40:25  <Rens> So I have to put " after C;\users\Rens and then the C:\Program files?
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12:41:52  <Xaroth> Rens: put quotes about the piece of text you want interpreted as a single piece of text
12:42:03  <Xaroth> so "C:\Program Files\Whatever\Whatever"
12:42:27  <Xaroth> with 2 files, "File Path 1" "File Path 2"
12:42:59  <Rens> ah ok thanks
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12:43:45  <Rens> what is meant with the "-e"?
12:46:43  <Alberth> it's called an option, and it means to grfcodec "encode this"
12:47:12  <Alberth> for decoding you need -d
12:47:14  <Alberth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec/repository/entry/docs/grfcodec.txt
12:47:37  <Rens> I just have to put "C:\Program Files\TTD Nightly\grfcodec.exe" -d "C:\Users\Rens\Documents\OpenTTD\content_download\data\av8"
12:48:17  <Alberth> euhm, a ".grf" at the end?  (ie av8.grf)
12:48:28  <Rens> yeah thats a good one
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12:50:34  <Rens> same error "progam can not bestarten because libgcc_s_dw2-1.dll  is missing
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12:53:30  <Rens> So I guess i need to find that .dll
12:53:43  <Alberth> would be my guess yes
12:54:00  <Rens> but how?
12:54:28  <Alberth> google seems to suggest it is part of mingw
12:54:56  <Rens> i don't know what mingw is?
12:56:30  <Alberth> it's a unix environment at windows
12:56:45  <Alberth> and since I don't use windows, that's all I know :p
12:56:53  <kais58> it is, libgcc_s is a runtime library(I think) for things built with gcc, so cygwin or mingw would be your best bet
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12:57:32  <Rens> hmm
12:57:46  <Rens> sound hard
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12:58:49  <Alberth> well, windows out-of-the-box is not really fitted for doing development work
12:59:26  <Rens> I guess i have to wait for the master coder I guess
13:00:13  <Alberth> do we have such a person for grfcodec?
13:00:33  <Alberth> you just need someone that can talk you through the install issues
13:00:38  <Rens> No the master coder from my own set
13:00:56  <Rens> But that would be an option too
13:01:19  <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_MinGW   explains mingw for building openttd, not sure how useful it is for grfcodec
13:01:40  <Alberth> although I am fairly sure you can compile grfcodec with the same setup too, if you want
13:02:06  <planetmaker> Alberth, you need boost
13:02:22  <planetmaker> but otherwise that suffices
13:02:48  * Alberth just does "yum install boost" then :p
13:03:33  <Rens> thats way to dificult for me
13:05:10  <Alberth> Rens: yeah, windows is very non-helpful here
13:05:43  *** planetmaker is now known as EvilDeityFromLowerSpheres
13:05:49  <Rens> yeah but would Linux be better for it?
13:05:57  *** EvilDeityFromLowerSpheres is now known as planetmaker
13:05:57  <TrueBrain> @kick EvilDeityFromLowerSpheres you? deity?
13:05:57  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: EvilDeityFromLowerSpheres is not in #openttd.
13:06:01  <TrueBrain> awh!
13:06:03  <TrueBrain> bad timing :(
13:06:33  <Rens> nee dorpsgek is lekker (no dorpsgek is good)
13:06:52  <TrueBrain> lekker != good :P
13:07:08  <Rens> haha
13:07:59  <Rens> Alberth couldn't you decode the grf for me and send me the prites?
13:08:06  <Alberth> I think Linux is much better yes, but then again, it's the only platform I know really well
13:09:42  *** LordAro [d92b6e2d@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
13:09:51  <LordAro> afternoons
13:09:51  <Alberth> hello lord
13:09:55  <LordAro> been lurking
13:09:58  <LordAro> :)
13:10:15  <LordAro> I'm sure i used grfcodec without mingw ...
13:10:25  <__ln__> http://clientsfromhell.net/post/14269411217/the-screenshot-you-sent-is-all-wrong-it-doesnt
13:10:26  <Rens> But how?
13:10:28  <Alberth> glad you decided to join the party :)
13:10:41  <LordAro> alternatively, that was on unix
13:10:49  <LordAro> gah, damned memory :)
13:11:10  <Rens> So what do i have to do then?
13:11:16  <Alberth> he just needs the right library, I think
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13:12:20  <planetmaker> haha, TrueBrain  :-)
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13:13:27  <LordAro> Rens: i reckon if you follow the mingw tutorial (linked above) to step 6, then run grfcodec in mingw, you should be fine
13:13:40  <planetmaker> Rens, the best idea to obtain the sprites is to actually ask Pikka... if you have permission from him, he might give you the sprites also in a nice for which allows coding
13:14:06  <planetmaker> though... without grfcodec coding will also fail...
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13:14:27  <Rens> yeah could be But as far I know we have to decode the .grf
13:14:38  <LordAro> yeah, or just pm Pikka on the forums :)
13:14:53  <Rens> If i can Get the sprites?
13:15:21  <LordAro> yeah
13:15:52  <Rens> Then i will try that
13:16:01  <LordAro> there mihgt also be something here: users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page#Av8
13:16:04  <LordAro> *might#
13:16:07  <LordAro> **might
13:16:08  <LordAro> :)
13:17:34  <Rens> nope
13:20:12  <Rens> wasn't PikkaBird dutch?
13:20:33  <Rubidium> maybe in a previous live or generation?
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13:21:48  <vargadanis> hi hi
13:22:06  <Alberth> hi
13:22:12  <__ln__> no, hu
13:23:17  <vargadanis> I need some help with the 32bit graphics thingie... I am not much of a computer guru :S I realize that I need to download some tar files, right? is there a pack for them? and what do I need to do after downloading? :S
13:24:02  <LordAro> uh oh.... :)
13:24:51  <LordAro> http://wiki.openttd.org/32bpp_installation <-- this
13:25:35  <Rens> Thanks guys for helping, I've send PikkaBird a PM
13:25:51  <Rens> Nice Christmas, happy new year and God bless you!
13:26:08  <glx> please note that most 32bpp graphics available are for EZ patch
13:26:49  <glx> (and look ugly ;) )
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13:32:53  <vargadanis> uff, it's complicated... :) we shall see what happens
13:32:56  <vargadanis> LordAro, thanx
13:37:49  <vargadanis> okkay, I downloaded everything from that website
13:38:01  <vargadanis> I fire up openTTD and I can see the extra zoom level thing works
13:38:31  <vargadanis> among the newGRF settings I set 32bpp thing active yet it seems that towns and industry and pretty much everything uses the previous graphics
13:38:40  <vargadanis> did I do something wrong?
13:39:18  <vargadanis> in the data folder I have 2 extra files: the 32bit-gfx-nightly and the 32bpp_extra-nightly
13:40:33  <LordAro> no, it's just that not all new graphics have been drawn yet ;)
13:40:52  <Alberth> or rather, most of them are not :)
13:41:20  <LordAro> indeed :)
13:41:51  <LordAro> that's a thought: peter1138, why you change username on forums?
13:42:19  * Alberth misses the connection entirely
13:42:31  <LordAro> unrelated to here
13:42:40  <LordAro> related to here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=57731&p=986442#p986442
13:46:28  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm thinking again about releasing FIRS under a different grfid
13:46:42  <andythenorth> maybe run two release tracks 'stable' and 'nightly'
13:46:56  <andythenorth> it's wrong for several reasons, but might be right for other reasons
13:47:09  <LordAro> you'd only forget to change it to the 'stable' grfid ;)
13:48:41  <andythenorth> that is indeed possible
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13:50:37  <andythenorth> could use a different makefile target :P
13:53:33  <planetmaker> I'm not really a fan of same grf, different grfIDs
13:53:53  <andythenorth> me neither
13:54:00  <planetmaker> Nor do I see a strong motivation to support 1.1 anymore
13:54:03  <planetmaker> :-P
13:54:15  <planetmaker> Thus... why different grfIDs?
13:54:30  <LordAro> do you ever want firs to be available to stable users? :P
13:54:39  <andythenorth> yes
13:54:47  <planetmaker> well, it is now :-)
13:54:51  <andythenorth> this situation is likely to repeat
13:55:29  <LordAro> or Truebrain could fix that bug... ;)
13:56:06  <TrueBrain> I could what?
13:56:11  * TrueBrain dislikes random highlights without context
13:56:24  <LordAro> fs#2966
13:57:20  <andythenorth> that would require a patch to bananas
13:57:29  <andythenorth> and bananas is afaik unmaintained?
13:57:34  <LordAro> sorry, had to find the specific bug report :)
14:00:52  <LordAro> why would bananas be unmaintained?
14:01:47  <andythenorth> no development environment
14:02:20  <andythenorth> from what rubi told me, it requires applying untested patches to the production server
14:02:28  <andythenorth> which is...interesting
14:02:41  <TrueBrain> it is maintained, just not developed
14:02:44  <TrueBrain> which is a huge difference
14:02:54  <TrueBrain> (else BaNaNaS wouldnt accept GameScripts)
14:03:22  <andythenorth> so is 2966 a bug or a feature request?
14:03:26  <LordAro> surely a downtime of around 10 mins if the patch if broken wouldn't matter?
14:03:43  <andythenorth> it's just a crappy way of working
14:03:45  <LordAro> ...or did i just say the wrong thing? i kow how you sys ops get :)
14:03:52  <andythenorth> and last time it was discussed, no-one wanted to do it ;)
14:14:31  <vargadanis> I wish I understood how each and every one of the signals work :S
14:15:15  <vargadanis> yes! youtube videos on it yataaa
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14:25:55  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23650 /trunk/src/script/api/doxygen_filter.awk: -Fix: wrong functions were filtered for AI/GameScript doxygen documentation
14:28:27  <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals the bottom of the page has a few links to tutorials
14:51:17  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23651 /trunk/src/script/ (7 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: [NoGo] GSText now accepts string arguments as parameters to the constructor
14:52:08  <TrueBrain> did you just remove Zuus first GSLib? :P
14:52:47  <Yexo> yep
14:52:55  <Yexo> but I'm going to add a few GSLibs very soon
14:53:01  <TrueBrain> like?
14:53:07  <Yexo> A*
14:53:23  <TrueBrain> I wonder if Eddi|zuHause will add his lib ...
14:53:32  <Yexo> and friends, which means Queue.BinaryHeap and Queue.FibonacciHeap
14:53:57  <Yexo> the only change to those two libs is s/AILibrary/GSLibrary/ in info.nut btw
14:54:08  <Yexo> makes me wonder again how much use there is in having two versions
14:54:20  <TrueBrain> and we are back to the lib talk I guess :D
14:54:29  <LordAro> i was about to say, can't you have a 'both' version?
15:01:46  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23652 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: don't include/document ScriptText for AIs. It is not usable
15:05:07  <Belugas> hello
15:08:37  <LordAro> hi Belugas
15:10:19  <Belugas> hi LordAro :)
15:10:52  <LordAro> http://clientsfromhell.net/ <-- much amusement from here :)
15:11:40  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23653 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Fix: also show GameScripts when you click Check Online Content (SubVersion does not allow translated commit messages, I am sorry) in AI / Game Settings
15:13:06  <LordAro> surely that function is not in the right file?
15:13:26  <LordAro> since it deals with both gamescripts and AIs
15:36:14  <andythenorth> are there are any spare text control characters?
15:36:33  * andythenorth has an idea for progressive disclosure of text
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16:26:36  <IchGuckLive> Hi il try to find out howto renew a bus  only by copy and delete the old ?
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16:29:09  <Alberth> autorenew?
16:29:39  <Alberth> (which fails if the original model is no longer available, you may want to use autoreplace in that case)
16:31:27  <IchGuckLive> is there a documentation on this ?
16:31:37  <Alberth> the wiki of course!
16:31:51  <IchGuckLive> there is nothing on renew bus
16:32:05  <glx> try renew vehicle
16:32:11  <Alberth> try 'autorenew'
16:32:37  <IchGuckLive> where is this autorenew or renew vehicle
16:32:54  <IchGuckLive> in the busmenue itself
16:33:24  <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Autorenew#Autorenew
16:33:42  <Alberth> the settings are in the 'advanced settings' window
16:34:04  <Alberth> ie it is a global setting for all vehicles
16:34:32  <IchGuckLive> ah
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16:36:12  <IchGuckLive> Thanks
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16:52:14  * LordAro hums
17:11:52  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23654 /trunk/src/newgrf_airport.h: -Fix [FS#4904]: missing this-> (adf88)
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17:36:22  <LordAro> http://clientsfromhell.net/post/3774575856/how-do-you-spell-html
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18:42:25  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23655 /trunk/src/lang/ (19 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:42:25  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:42:25  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: belarusian - 45 changes by KorneySan
18:42:25  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
18:42:25  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: czech - 49 changes by ReisRyos, TheLamer, marek995
18:42:26  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: dutch - 8 changes by Parody, habell
18:42:26  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: english_US - 2 changes by Rubidium
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18:44:52  <vargadanis> what influances the population growth or lack of it of a city?
18:45:52  <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Town_growth
18:46:13  <Alberth> having a look at the wiki often helps :)
18:47:56  <vargadanis> thaaank you
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18:59:09  <vargadanis> what good does funding the local road reconstruction do to me?
18:59:47  <LordAro> nothing, just disrupts other competitors
19:01:41  <Rubidium> and yourself (if you're having a road vehicle network in the town)
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19:35:42  <vargadanis> that's great :)
19:35:43  <vargadanis> hehe
19:36:13  <vargadanis> how do you guys modernize your lotta trains?
19:36:34  <vargadanis> it takes forever, better part of a year to pull 'em all back to a depo and replace the old things with better ones
19:36:55  <Eddi|zuHause> train list -> manage list -> autoreplace
19:39:41  <vargadanis> sweet god :) love ttd :)
19:39:53  <vargadanis> feel like a young myself again :)
19:40:53  <vargadanis> I would like to ask a favor :S I suck at these singal thingies and it would be seet if someone could show me an example to a 3 and 4 track station thing
19:41:07  *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
19:41:52  <LordAro> again, wiki is your friend ;)
19:48:16  <Belugas> [14:44] <vargadanis> feel like a young myself again :)  <--  i shold play that game more oftne :S
19:50:19  <vargadanis> Belugas, yeah, well I used to have a train board or whatever it was called
19:50:23  <vargadanis> I loved it..
19:50:51  <vargadanis> unfortunately it became very old and didn't work that well so I gave it to a young guy, he was like 14 and he promised to repair it
19:51:02  <vargadanis> he did and he did it so well that I gave it to him :)
19:51:16  <vargadanis> long trains have a definite disadvantage
19:51:24  <vargadanis> sometimes they clutter up
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19:52:48  <vargadanis> if I buy exclusive transport rights will that mean that all the rest of the opponents will have to leave the town?
19:53:15  <vargadanis> wow, extreme! just by replacing the trains my income went from 2.2mill to 2.9mill
19:53:22  <vargadanis> tho the cost was possible like 1.5 mill :S
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19:59:04  <Zuu> vargadanis: Exclusive transport rights will cause no cargo to be delivered to your opponent stations for a period of one year.
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20:00:46  * andythenorth should know better
20:00:57  <andythenorth> suggestions forum is always a bad place to visit :P
20:01:46  <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of place the world would be if all people who "should know better" actually behaved like they do :p
20:03:49  <Belugas> vargadanis, i kow the feeling :)  I love playing with my son on his lego train set :D
20:04:15  <LordAro> wait, what?
20:04:23  <LordAro> sorry... :L
20:05:14  <andythenorth> Belugas: this is a hit with my 22 month old http://city.lego.com/en-us/products/harbour/4645.aspx
20:05:37  <andythenorth> got it on Amazon for £50 sterling
20:09:38  <Belugas> cute :)  You're already perverting him :D
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20:27:17  <Zuu> Hmm, GSGoalList would be useful to clear up "lost" goals when loading a savegame from TransportGoals 1.
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20:31:50  <Zuu> Or if the script get to take over from another script. Or are are game script saved from the risk of taking over from another script/ai?
20:32:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think scripts can "take over" from another script
20:33:58  <Zuu> So if the script is unavailable, no script runs at all?
20:34:30  <Eddi|zuHause> if the script is unavailable, the game should not load (same as newgrfs)
20:35:05  <Zuu> For AIs the rule is that another AI program takes over if one is unavailable.
20:35:17  <Zuu> With no way of veto. :-)
20:35:31  <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely sure if this is such a great idea
20:36:44  <Yexo> I'm quite sure a GS can't take over from another GS
20:36:44  <Zuu> As long as the user gets informed about it happening, it is still probably the best that can happen for the player.
20:36:57  <Zuu> (when an AI take over from another)
20:37:32  <Zuu> But when I publish version 2 of TransportGoals, it will take over from version 1 (if users upgrade)?
20:38:04  <Zuu> upgrade as in, if people download the new version via bananas or manual download.
20:58:45  <Yexo> not sure, for AIs it does work that way
20:58:49  <Yexo> TrueBrain: ^^ ?
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21:03:11  <Wolf01> evenink
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21:10:35  <andythenorth> hello Wolf01
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21:22:40  <TrueBrain> Zuu: it should work; please do test :)
21:23:52  <andythenorth> Rubidium: did diagonal rivers also get ruled out?  Or was I just too lazy to draw the needed sprites?
21:23:53  <Zuu> I did test, and it didn't work at that case. Only going to menu and back again in the game solved the issue that it didn't want to re-load my script.
21:24:09  <Zuu> However, now it reloads the script fine.
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21:24:28  <Zuu> My only idea is that it might be related to script compilation errors.
21:25:13  <TrueBrain> will check it
21:25:18  <frosch123> andythenorth: you would not be able to build anything on the other halftile
21:25:30  <andythenorth> that's fine
21:25:31  <frosch123> so, the current behaviour is less likely to cause requests :p
21:25:57  <peter1138> well
21:26:01  <peter1138> i had a patch once...
21:26:04  <frosch123> however, if you make the outside corners big enough you will almost get diagonal rivers
21:26:14  <peter1138> yeah
21:26:20  <peter1138> make a very wide river, and squint a bit
21:26:26  <andythenorth> my current game is heavy on trams + rivers
21:26:28  <frosch123> ships already travel on "rail pieces"
21:26:31  <andythenorth> it's very...orthogonal
21:26:48  * andythenorth should make a 'manhattan' map :P
21:26:57  <peter1138> 32bpp: dead before it started?
21:27:08  <frosch123> [22:30] <andythenorth> it's very...orthogonal <- play simutrans :p
21:27:13  <andythenorth> hmm
21:27:17  <andythenorth> no thanks
21:27:19  <andythenorth> I have taste :P
21:27:23  <peter1138> simutrans rail junctions :(
21:27:30  <LordAro> peter1138: 32bpp is implemented :P
21:27:32  <frosch123> peter1138: it felt undead somewhen, so dead is an improvement
21:27:40  <peter1138> heh
21:27:58  <peter1138> LordAro, show me the baseset ;)
21:28:18  <TrueBrain> Zuu: possible indeed I made it name+version restricted; shouldnt (via Load). So will fix :)
21:28:44  <LordAro> peter1138: shh
21:28:47  <LordAro> :)
21:28:48  <peter1138> LordAro, i think i killed the blender thread :p
21:30:43  <Zuu> Another wish for debugging is to have the AI/GS Debug window popup when the GS crashes.
21:31:30  <TrueBrain> will check
21:31:37  * peter1138 ponders making a complete set of 32bpp-ez graphics using... sketchup :p
21:31:44  * andythenorth thinks diagonal rivers worth the effort
21:31:56  * andythenorth even promises not to complain while drawing the sprites
21:31:58  <peter1138> andythenorth, find my patch and finish it :p
21:32:22  <andythenorth> grep peter1138 "river*"
21:32:50  <andythenorth> bad grep :P
21:32:57  <frosch123> try with different order of arguments
21:35:10  <peter1138> heh, bridges over stations: r9829
21:35:12  <andythenorth> could canals drag-build on a box, not just a line?
21:35:29  <andythenorth> i.e. in both x and y simultaneously
21:35:34  <peter1138> yes but no
21:36:57  <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/tba6907.png <- r6907 :p
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21:37:32  <frosch123> ottd was so much better back then
21:37:34  <andythenorth> so many patches :P
21:38:07  <andythenorth> frosch123: 6th feb 2010?  Not that long ago...
21:39:18  <frosch123> it's not a daylength-factor-38918-patch
21:46:02  <Eddi|zuHause> it should be!
21:46:37  <Eddi|zuHause> and a round world map with 1 tile = 24m
21:47:21  <frosch123> just bend your screen
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21:48:22  <Eddi|zuHause> with all climate zones!
21:48:37  <frosch123> all four? :p
21:48:53  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. disneyland and stuff
21:49:22  <frosch123> maybe if you put toyland between arctic and temperate, the grass transition is less ugly
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21:50:16  <TrueBrain> ah; Zuu, I remember: there is a bit of an issue when loading newer GSes, mostly when the strings are changed
21:50:34  <TrueBrain> so I have to review it, but it is not very lickely a newer GS would be able to load on a savegame made with an older
21:50:44  <TrueBrain> at least, unless it meets certain requirements
21:52:29  <Zuu> Apart from string issues, I don't see why it shouldn't be up to the GS to say yes or no to savegame compatibility, just like it is for AIs.
21:52:46  <TrueBrain> but 'apart from' is the issue :)
21:52:50  <TrueBrain> and it is kinda a huge one
21:53:04  <andythenorth> hmm
21:53:12  <Zuu> larger than an "impossible" one? ;-)
21:53:25  <TrueBrain> something that needs, as with everything, attention
21:53:29  <TrueBrain> it is not a 1-2-3 fix
21:53:29  <andythenorth> did someone teach trains to try and go to appropriate length platforms?  Or is it just coincidence?
21:53:56  <Eddi|zuHause> that's implemented for ages
21:54:07  <andythenorth> how was it done?
21:54:13  <Eddi|zuHause> pathfinder penalties
21:55:04  <TrueBrain> and Zuu, the 'huge one' refers to the problems coming from it when not done correctly, not how much work it is :) Huge difference ;)
21:56:16  <Zuu> Oh, so you are saying it is easy as long as it is done correct from start. :-)
21:57:16  <TrueBrain> now you are just putting words in my mouth :)
21:58:03  <blathijs> pathfinder penalties are like magic! :-)
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22:05:16  <vargadanis> sweet I just got the monorails :)
22:05:52  <vargadanis> ohh crap! how do I upgrade my existing lines and trains to the new monorail thingie? the depos are not compatible :S
22:07:10  <Xaroth> yep :)
22:07:18  <Xaroth> upgrading to monorail/maglev is a bitch :P
22:08:31  <frosch123> best solution: don't upgrade :p
22:08:43  <Xaroth> or do the entire track all at once
22:08:47  <frosch123> build parallel express tracks for express cargo
22:08:49  <Xaroth> depot all trains, upgrade, new trains
22:08:52  <Xaroth> and be VERY quick at it :P
22:08:52  <frosch123> and keep the old tracks for coal
22:10:09  <andythenorth> frosch123: that's a silly idea
22:10:13  <andythenorth> coal travels by plane
22:10:41  <Xaroth> coal travels by mammoth maglev trains :P
22:11:09  <vargadanis> by plane?
22:11:19  <vargadanis> I don't even have planes that accept coal or can be refitted for it
22:11:26  <vargadanis> they come later?
22:11:32  <Xaroth> no, they come with newgrfs
22:11:42  <vargadanis> i have newgrf
22:11:52  <vargadanis> or not? I have the installable version
22:11:54  <Xaroth> they come with active newgrfs :P
22:12:11  * vargadanis is confused as if you were explaining calculus :S
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22:18:09  <Brandon_> I'm playing on Mac and the buildings and trees won't rendr
22:18:34  <Xaroth> have you accidentally hit X ?
22:18:43  <Xaroth> or try Ctrl+X
22:19:09  <Brandon_> haha that did it
22:19:10  <Brandon_> thanks!
22:21:28  <vargadanis> fantastic :)
22:21:45  <vargadanis> upgraded all train lines to that stupid new railroad thingie
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22:21:56  <vargadanis> monorails woot :)
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22:25:41  <stinkyfax> hi all
22:26:29  <stinkyfax> I have started playing new version in openTTD and got stuck on next: how do I build a railroad two-way signal? pressing leftclick few times makes it warry between directions, but i wnt 2 direction
22:27:36  <Zuu> It's really great to have AIs for testing your Game Scripts :-)
22:28:16  <frosch123> night
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22:30:01  <stinkyfax> how do I build two-way signal? i managed to build one-way only
22:30:16  <stinkyfax> does it have to do anyhing with a linux? I tried without any newGFX
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22:34:04  <rihijs> hello
22:34:10  <stinkyfax> can anyone help?
22:34:14  <rihijs> can someone help?
22:34:47  <LordAro> stinkyfax: select the first signal in the list
22:34:53  <LordAro> (it's the basic block signal)
22:34:53  <rihijs> some local authorities dont allow to build bus or train station, how to resolve this?
22:35:05  <glx> rihijs: plant trees
22:35:18  <LordAro> stinkyfax: http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals
22:35:23  <rihijs> ok thanks i will try
22:35:28  <stinkyfax> owh, thanks
22:36:03  <glx> or bribe, but planting trees is safer
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22:45:03  <vargadanis> how do I find the trains with void orders? is there a gui section for that?
22:48:07  <vargadanis> as well is there a limit like only XY types of planes can land on small airfields?
22:50:53  <Prof_Frink> No.
22:50:56  <andythenorth> bye
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22:51:13  <Prof_Frink> But the chance of crashing is greatly increased.
22:56:23  <vargadanis> I c :S
22:56:32  <vargadanis> ohh well, i'll see how often it crashes :)
22:57:10  <vargadanis> I wish some planes could be refitted for transporting whatever I want
23:02:10  <vargadanis> What AI do you people usually use? I want a little bit of a challenge
23:07:43  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:26:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't played with AIs in years... there's plenty of other challenges
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23:40:02  <vargadanis> Eddi|zuHause, ohh? can you give me an example?
23:41:53  <Eddi|zuHause> the last (~4) games i played, i tried to build sensible networks with cargo destinations
23:42:00  <planetmaker> vargadanis: NoCAB, AdmiralAI, ... there are threads in the NoAI subforum where people made test runs
23:42:10  <planetmaker> good or bad may depend on the actual game settings
23:45:07  * Zuu just loaded a blackprint for a roundabout as heightmap in OpenTTD :-)
23:46:57  <Zuu> blueprint*
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23:50:10  <Zuu> Hmm, I should maybe try to see if I can obtain a nice blueprint through a public website that could give a nice scenario. :-)

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